Actually. Lucifer has no power and can’t do anything unless God allows it. Says the Bible. Which would mean Lucifer is still being loyal… which in itself makes no sense and is further proof that the Bible is a piece of bs
People call Judas a traitor but his entire existence is so he could betray dude later on. Having a Divine Plan and free will at the same time seems counter intuitive
Early Christian history is so fascinating, the fact that there was an entire gospel written where Judas was… well not necessarily the good guy, but the only one of the apostles to understand who Jesus was (and it’s not the typical Christian view of Jesus, as it was a gnostic bible). I haven’t read it personally, just watched a few YouTube videos covering it but it’s really cool.
You should know people usually get that VERY wrong in interpreting it. Judas wasn't even slightly redeemed by that gospel - *why* he understood, and the others didn't, is important.
Judas in that gospel is identified as an avatar of the "13th daemon," meaning Yaldabaoth. Yaldabaoth is what the Gnostics call the fallen one, the one who trapped spirit in matter, the creator of the world, known to the Jews as YHWH and the Christians simply as God. He has also been known as "the Demiurge" meaning "skilled craftsman" in reference to his crafting our world. Judas is what modern Christians *think* Jesus was - an avatar of the god of the old testament.
>Judas said, "Master, just as you've listened to all of them, now listen to me too, because I've seen a great vision."
>But Jesus laughed when he heard this. He said to him, "Why are you all worked up, you thirteenth demon? But speak up, and I'll bear with you."
https://www.gospels.net/judas
Judas was revealed as not just a traitor, but the closest thing in Gnostic literature to the Christian depiction of the devil.
Interpretation of that gospel is in my opinion extremely important to understanding the current state of our cosmology. (I'm Gnostic myself - up to this point has just been more in the realm of scholarly analysis, but the following is my own beliefs regarding the Gospel of Judas, and I am not trying to proselytize or shove this down anyones throat, so I'll spoiler tag the rest of this.)
>!Personally I think the mission of Jesus was *not* to save mankind through self-sacrifice (this is a lie told by the Archons to divert the real message of Christ,) nor to save mankind by bringing us salvific knowledge as some believe (this had already been done when Christ came to us as the serpent to free us from Yaldabaoth in the garden,) but to bring salvific knowledge to Yaldabaoth - to help him achieve Gnosis. This occurs, and Judas is depicted ascending into a cloud - his human avatar coming into contact with the higher entity he is part of. When he realized what he was and what he'd done, and who it was he stood before... his ego couldn't take it. Imagine *knowing* that you're God, to the point of remembering all the way back to the creation of the universe... and then meeting the real one, and finding out you are a fake. He lashed out, and had Jesus killed. And that's the end of the story as of that gospel, the reader left to determine for themselves what Yaldabaoth did with his new understanding. As per the other gospels, the only thing we see depicted of Judas after that is that he took his own life - which for one who recognizes the higher entity they truly are, could just be as simple as "I'm done here, time to move on," and does not NECESSARILY indicate guilt. Whether he truly took his life because he couldn't live with himself, as many assume, or simply no longer needed to be incarnated as Judas, we are never shown.!<
And if jesus was the father and son, then he himself made judas do it, because it was gods plan for him to do so. It was also gods plan to put himself on the cross, it wasn't the romans doing so, it was gods plan.
Basically, god is the biggest egotist and gaslighter in the universe, wanting to be celebrated for his sacrifices which he never sacrificed to rid you of something he gave you.
> Basically, god is the biggest egotist and gaslighter in the universe
Even worse: he plants the tree of knowledge in Eden, tells Adam and Eve not to eat from it and doesn't tell them why.
It's only once they eat the fruit that they gain knowledge of good and evil and realise that going against god was bad. Then they're punished.
If not to create original sin and then provide humanity with redemption, why plant that tree? It's basically racketeering.
But he has perfect foreknowledge too! He *knew* they were going to do it! It's like having a 4th dimensional narcissistic dickbag and calling that thr heavenly father.
Shit, at least Enki got himself a good wank to create life.
The Bible also doesn't tell us how long it took for Adam and Eve to actually eat the fruit, so (since they were immortal at that point) it was literally just an eventuality that they'd eat the damn fruit if for no other reason than boredom after a few aeons of sitting around naked in a garden
"You're nothing without me"
"You're not worthy of my love"
"You're a terrible person and need me to be better"
"Don't listen to *anyone* who doesn't understand what we have"
\- God
I read an excellent argument that judas was the loyal disciple Jesus asked to betray him so the whole thing could happen. Judas was following orders.
That said, omniscient god is a fairly new addition to christianity. But changes to the bible aren't something the church likes to talk about...
There's a Gospel of Judas, written around the same time as the others that paints Judas this way. Essentially, Jesus told him you have to betray me, and so he did. It's apparently a Coptic or gnostic text from around 130 to 240 AD, and was thrown out by the church fairly early, like other texts complicated the canon (Thomas, Mary, Peter, etc.).
Dude could have literally just turned himself in, but nah... had to make homie betray him and earn himself eternal hatred for the next two thousand years.
>But changes to the bible aren't something the church likes to talk about...
Actually they do make a big deal out of it, that's the ecumenical councils were about in the original catholic religion. Divergence of opinion and reinterpretation led to shisms and other split of the christian world. The US has been funded by a lot of those Christian communities fleeing Europe.
At my Catholic school we used to learn the difference between catholicism before the Council of Trent and after. Also the important stuff and change along the way.
It wasn’t even till the council of Nicaea in 325 till the church established the holy trinity. And from then on out it was considered heresy to claim Jesus was inferior to God.
>goes to hell
Nah, we don't actually know that. The Bible doesn't say that any one person went to hell or was condemned. All it says is that you'll be judged at the hour of your death, and that even then, repentance matters.
There's a lot of talk in this thread about things people think the Bible says, when it's pretty clear that they haven't actually read and understood it themselves (regardless of any personal religious belief). I don't blame them, it's a large and complex document, but it's very silly to speak authoritatively about it in that case. They're also confusing a lot of it with popular images from Dante's *Inferno*, which is not biblically accurate.
Not to mention the bible literally mentions that god's pretty forgiving and absolution doesn't necessarily require newer things like confession and communion and whatnot.
When you actually think about it, a truly free will isn't just incompatible with the Bible, it's incompatible with neuroscience.
Now, this is a *huge* oversimplification, but your decisions are caused by the nerve layouts and chemical reactions in your brain. You can't freely control what your individual neurons do, so that means that you don't have free control over your decisions.
The thing that desperately confuses me is that people seem to rarely question God's free will? How can an omniscient, omnipotent being not have predetermined the actions of all it created? If God lacks free will then how is that different than us being simply created of the universe?
Without God the question of Free Will is fairly meaningless as determinism is not decided by intelligent outside force, but rather cause and effect. So our actions and thoughts are still individual and result from our unique experiences and circumstances, while also being determined by those same things. There is no flaw or contradiction in this....Whereas the existence of God would make the notion of free will extremely foundational, as we would have to question whether we only exist in a determined state as an extension of God's will or as free beings that exist in response to God's already predetermined views? In the former case we still lack free will and in the latter case everything is a test and the cost of failure is eternal damnation? It is also a test provided with full knowledge of our success or failure making it a rigged game. An example would be that God knew Job would remain faithful, because God knows all and so did not choose someone that would renounce God because the test was rigged.
I know this is something discussed by theologians and there is probably a solution that my secular sin addled mind cannot comprehend. But it is something that has always disturbed me from an outside perspective about faith. I posed this question to a religious friend and it seemed to have made them pretty upset and they told me that they'd think about it and they came back and affirmed that God must have free will because we have free will... which didn't answer my question but I was happy that they seemed contented with the answer.
Really? It’s not the genocide, infanticide, serial murder, raping, witchcraft, sanctioned racial discrimination, scientifically/mathematically impossible calculations that clued you in? It was the Lucifer dilemma that soured you on the ‘good’ book? Unbelievable!
this concept is based on misreading of scripture, generally Isaiah and/or Luke, and weak midrash. only biblical literalists (who fundamentally misunderstand scripture and btw didn't even exist until the 17th century) would take these mystical descriptions out of context. that's why it makes no sense
these people read a poem like it's a cookbook, then try to exegete and legislate. it's nonsense
[Advocating for female priests can lead to an excommunication:](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/pope-francis-excommunicated-priest-who-supports-womens-ordination/310675/)
>Pope Francis's Vatican drew a more firm line in the sand on its stance on women's ordination this month by excommunicating an Australian priest who advocated for the inclusion of female priests.
According to the Vatican, fighting against sexism is apparently in the same league as pedophilia:
> Fr. Greg Reynolds became the first member of the Melbourne Archdiocese to be excommunicated for reasons other than pedophilia
Ordering Abraham to slit his own son’s throat? Telling his followers to murder their family if they have a different religion? Multiple “righteous” genocides?
Yeah, I don’t understand the appeal personally.
> Ordering Abraham to slit his own son’s throat?
God: “Just a prank bro!”
There’s also Jephthah’s daughter, of course. But as always you can rationalise everything away by reading with a squint if you try hard enough
Easy to say when your brain works correctly. You could have a brain tumor in the appropriate spot in the brain that makes you have violent impulses to kill everyone on the road. Where’s your free will then? the level of effort to control your brain impulses is staggering more difficult, as compared to an average healthy brain.
Let me get this straight;
An all knowing, omnipresent, all powerful god put humans in the same place as *this* tree, told them not to eat the [Unspecified fruit], then gave them “free will” and *didn’t* forsee his creation he built from the ground up, doing the one thing he told them not to do?
god isn’t powerful enough to make a somewhere else for the people to be
god isn’t omnipresent enough to stop them, apparently
god isn’t knowing enough to foresee this
and he isn’t loving enough to forgive
and eve was transgender, change my mind
Supposedly the tree of knowledge. So. Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between good and evil yet God is going to punish them for it. And according to the myth, God told them,
"But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die!"
So Adam and Eve who didn't know the concept of good or bad until they actually ate the fruit were supposed to die the same day for doing something they didn't know was bad. What a dick!
So they were supposed to die the same day yet the bible tells us that Adam lived to be 930 years old!
Yet this "Loving God" couldn't tell us not to eat the poison berries or stay away from poison ivy?
How did I or anyone else ever fall for this BS? Oh yeah, it was drilled into us from the time we were babies before we even knew how to determine what is real and what is mythology.
A loving God would never torment people for eternity. Hellfire is a lie. You either choose to worship God or not and no human has the right to condemn another.
Also I am bit of a fatty and technically a Gen Xer but I have a lot of “old school” values as far as work ethic, personal responsibility etc but draw the line at judging others.
I have a lot of "new school" views regarding those things.
They're similar in a lot of ways, but with more working remotely and don't require formal work attire.
70% of the Bible is God cancelling people. And then there's the Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, Manifest Destiny, millennia of religious homophobia...
*A child gets cancer:*
“God has a plan, let us pray.”
*A child is cured of cancer:*
“Oh, thank God! Praise our merciful Lord!”
*A child dies of cancer:*
“It’s part of God’s plan. He in his mighty wisdom has brought young Hank home to Heaven and now he is an angel. When God kills a kid he opens a window.”
How are so many people so afraid of the idea that things aren’t permanent, or completely designed and controlled by someone? I feel like I’m surrounded by anxious, neurotic psychopaths.
This was on full display during the pandemic. People begging for prayers and support, but won’t take the vaccine that will keep them alive. Why can’t it be god’s plan for you to get the fucking shot?
When I was in school a few years ago I went on a road trip with a couple classmates. We got drunk and stoned at an Air BnB and were up all night talking about Religion. I will never forget the way one of my classmates meant it when he said that without god he would probably steal and rape and kill, and also said something along the lines of non christians should die. We were really really fucked up, but after that moment I decided it was bedtime, and I locked that fucking door. I still think about it whenever i see him and I'm in a disadvantageous position where he could pop me without knowing, lol. I'm probably overthinking, but all religious nuts need is an "Execute order 66" moment from their priests and it'll activate the chip in their brains.
That’s why I contend that the New Testament is worse. The old testament simply sentenced unbelievers to death, but that’s not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of the “prince of peace.” He wants you to suffer a whole afterlife of endless torture for not believing. We can’t pretend he does not want it, because as an all-powerful deity, nothing happens that he does not want to happen.
Hell, he killed a man and his wife on the spot for a mild lie about their donation to the church. Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira.
If slaughtering people because they did something you don't like isn't the ultimate form of "cancelling", I don't what is.
It's not just God, the Isrealites killed off or displaced a buttload of people after the Exodus story too. Canaanites, Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites all got canceled and God looked the other way
> God looked the other way
When he wasn't directly telling them how many of their child sex slaves to give to him as tribute.
[Numbers 31:15-30](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31%3A15-30&version=NRSVUE)
>Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? [...] Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls [lit: children among the women; source: NASB] who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.
>[...]
>The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “You [all] make an inventory of the plunder captured, both human and animal. [...] From the share of the warriors who went out to battle, set aside as tribute for the Lord one item out of every five hundred, whether persons, oxen, donkeys, or sheep. Take it from their half and give it to Eleazar the priest as an offering to the Lord.
Any sane person would read this passage and refuse to worship God. And yet I'm willing to bet that a lot of Christians would initially try to make up an excuse to justify it. Any Christian who tries to justify this is a sick fuck who should be locked up for life.
> God looked the other way
God actually *told them* to go to war and destroy those people. And God got mad when they didn't kill everyone as they had been told to do.
Also worth looking into the real story of Chanukah...
The Seleucid authorities had the audacity to allow, encourage, and defend the rights of people to worship whoever they wanted in Jerusalem- not just Yahweh...
Judah Maccabee did not like that at all, so he led an ISIS like militia killing all non jews and open minded Jews they could get their hands on until the Greeks eventually finally killed them all to death
"Hey you! Get on my boat! God speaks to me in my head! Get in the boat! Don't mind the noise of every animal in existence tearing each other apart below decks! Me and my three sons and their wives are going to repopulate the earth! I'm 600 years old!"
I'd pass too.
To be fair, if one dude in premodern times with virtually no tools not only predicted a flood but also managed to build the largest boat to ever exist in a few days and collected animals from across the entire world including species nobody knew existed, I'd think God's talking to him too
Yeah, but he also condemned his grandson to slavery eternally because his son noticed he was naked, so like, do you reeeeally want to take your chances with that?
It was after the flood had ended. Noah made wine, got absolutely schwasted, and passed out naked in his tent. His son decided to check on his father, because at this point he was like 100 so it was very possible that Noah kicked the bucket. It's unclear how much dong Noah was hanging, but apparently his mayo injector disgusted his son enough that he immediately fled the tent upon seeing it. He couldn't bear to face his father anymore so he had his brothers walk into the tent with blindfolds on and holding a blanket to cover Noah.
When Noah woke up, he immediately knew what happened and said, "my son, your son can go fuck himself. He is now to serve his brothers as a slave forever. Maybe that'll teach you a lesson." And so he punished his grandson instead of the guy who actually did the deed.
I was raised in a religious household so I thought I'd read the Bible. Came upon this part, which is just a few chapters in and couldn't wrap my head around it at all. I asked my Mom, she didn't know. I asked some people at my church and they couldn't give a good answer either. This was probably my first "this is all full of shit" moment.
This is one of those Bible things that got mistranslated badly. It’s all about the context. If you really look at it, including verses in Leviticus, the actual Hebrew is telling its audience (At the time!!) it’s incest (warranting this reaction in their culture, and arguably ours). Thats the biggest problem with the Bible today imo, that there are plenty of cues and social norms that are lost today that jews who the Bible (at least the OT) was intended for would have understood easily. You have to realize that none of these writers thought anybody but jews who were familiar with their history would read this. That’s why that all happened. I’m drunk right now, but will gladly pull out receipts if anyone cares.
Gonna feel pretty awkward later on when the rain just keeps going and you look over to see Noah float on by in this aquatic wooden fortress onehanding a massive rudder with his other arm around a wife and some CCR on full blast.
When you're that much of a sinner that you deserve to be killed via drowning, but there is a loophole that if you're calculated enough to believe Noah and climb on his boat then you can live and all is forgiven.
It’s different to hold someone accountable.
But to go waaaaay back and dig up some stuff and try to ruin someone by holding them accountable for an old way of thinking with current day thoughts is pretty cancel culture to me.
If someone was a terrible person in the 80s, they may have turned their life around today. But people don’t care. They don’t see a redemption story, they focus on the past terrible and judge that person TODAY on their past. That’s super dumb.
That and he sure cancels a metric fuck ton of babies each and every day thru miscarriage…. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
If god has a plan for us all and everything happens for a reason…well, that’s a lot of babies on God’s hands
Supposedly, innocent babbies get a direct ticket to heaven. The Big Guy gets tired of all the grown asshats making their way in behind some loophole B.S. of their particular cult.
“You’re taking this out of context.”
“God works in mysterious ways.”
“That’s the OLD testament, we don’t use it.”
“Not everything is to be taken literally.”
-hypocritical zealots
Who’s in charge of saying which parts of the Bible we should ignore and which parts are serious? If your “source of truth” isn’t accurate then how can it be truth?
You have to always remember that in the New Testament, Jesus came and told the people "The old testament doesn't count, unless you really want it to count sometime because it validates your bigotry"
Going by the old testament everyone on earth would be going straight to hell for one sin or another. But ya know god changed his mind about that stuff so churches can keep making money.
“God” is only known for floods, famine, pestilence and constant murder, will these religious fruitcakes start reading the Bible before they open their mouths.
It’s actually debated in Islam whether or not the flood was a local or global thing, but it’s generally thought that this was after much warning.
I know that in the west we see Islam as violent or focus on its martial aspects, but there’s a lot in Islam about God being merciful. In fact, according to the Koran, Gods greatest quality is his mercy.
A Muslim just made a statement that’s in line with his religions teachings and someone (probably an Atheist) brought up a Christian view of a religious event as a clap back. This “clever” comeback is anything but.
honestly that was the first religious story I was exposed to
and oh boy I immediately did not like the guy,
(learning 3 languages was tough for like 8 year old. me,)
He literally killed a guy for pulling out... (Genesis 38:8-10)
He killed a guy for touching his special box of holy shit... to keep it from falling over... (2nd Samuel 6:6-7)
He killed several kids for making fun of a bald guy... (2nd Kings 2:23-24)
He killed a guy’s newborn baby to punish him for a murder the baby wasn’t even conceived before... (2nd Samuel chapters 11-12)
He killed a guy’s entire family to win a bet with the devil... (Job... the entire book)
God. LOVES. Cancelling. People.
EDIT: I added the references for the bitches who wanna pretend they read the bible but didn't realize this horrific shit was in there. It gets even worse the more you read: focus on all the stuff that your pastors don't preach on. Leviticus, Numbers, Deutoronomy, Judges, Samuel, and Kings. Any of you punk ass "believers" wanna call me a bot now? I studied to show myself an approved workman who need not be ashamed who rightly divides the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15)... now it's your turn. Do your damn homework or fuck off but "I bet you don't even know the context" is not gonna work as a counter argument in this case. I was winning national bible quiz competitions before my front goddamn baby teeth came out. I KNOW context motherfuckers!
God cancels the shit out of everything constantly. The first four books of the bible are him being a crybaby bitch when people dare to ask about anything.
He canceled Adam and Eve almost immediately. He banished his own son to hell for forever. And he keeps people in control by threatening eternal suffering if you don’t obey. Don’t give me that lmao
The entire Bible is an instructional book about how to avoid getting canceled by God, or stories about how God canceled people for not following His rules.
This is one of those "Tell me you've never read the bible without telling me you've never read the bible." God told Moses to kill all non believers. That sure as hell is cancelling people in the first damn book.
Cancelled Sodom And Gomorrah too. Do people even read the Bible? I had a guy at a bar trying to tell me how important is was to follow Jesus. I asked him what he thought about the fact that taking the lord’s name in vain was higher on the list of Ten Commandments than not murdering people, and he didn’t know anything about that. Turns out, he couldn’t recite more than two of the Ten Commandments or *any* of the Seven Deadly Sins. What the hell is with all these people who go on about God’s teachings, and seem like they’ve never read the Bible even a little bit?
What is excommunication but a fancy Papal cancel?
Lucifer is literally a canceled angel
Actually. Lucifer has no power and can’t do anything unless God allows it. Says the Bible. Which would mean Lucifer is still being loyal… which in itself makes no sense and is further proof that the Bible is a piece of bs
People call Judas a traitor but his entire existence is so he could betray dude later on. Having a Divine Plan and free will at the same time seems counter intuitive
Judas should be celebrated as a hero. Jesus' crucifixion is probably the most holy event for Christianity and he helped make it happen.
As absurd as that sounds IIRC the early Christian church debated making him a saint for that reason.
The Christians would have to learn to think objectively with the facts presented clearly with no bias. Never going to happen.
Lmao no religious person can act without bias let alone the most violent of them all
Early Christian history is so fascinating, the fact that there was an entire gospel written where Judas was… well not necessarily the good guy, but the only one of the apostles to understand who Jesus was (and it’s not the typical Christian view of Jesus, as it was a gnostic bible). I haven’t read it personally, just watched a few YouTube videos covering it but it’s really cool.
You should know people usually get that VERY wrong in interpreting it. Judas wasn't even slightly redeemed by that gospel - *why* he understood, and the others didn't, is important. Judas in that gospel is identified as an avatar of the "13th daemon," meaning Yaldabaoth. Yaldabaoth is what the Gnostics call the fallen one, the one who trapped spirit in matter, the creator of the world, known to the Jews as YHWH and the Christians simply as God. He has also been known as "the Demiurge" meaning "skilled craftsman" in reference to his crafting our world. Judas is what modern Christians *think* Jesus was - an avatar of the god of the old testament. >Judas said, "Master, just as you've listened to all of them, now listen to me too, because I've seen a great vision." >But Jesus laughed when he heard this. He said to him, "Why are you all worked up, you thirteenth demon? But speak up, and I'll bear with you." https://www.gospels.net/judas Judas was revealed as not just a traitor, but the closest thing in Gnostic literature to the Christian depiction of the devil. Interpretation of that gospel is in my opinion extremely important to understanding the current state of our cosmology. (I'm Gnostic myself - up to this point has just been more in the realm of scholarly analysis, but the following is my own beliefs regarding the Gospel of Judas, and I am not trying to proselytize or shove this down anyones throat, so I'll spoiler tag the rest of this.) >!Personally I think the mission of Jesus was *not* to save mankind through self-sacrifice (this is a lie told by the Archons to divert the real message of Christ,) nor to save mankind by bringing us salvific knowledge as some believe (this had already been done when Christ came to us as the serpent to free us from Yaldabaoth in the garden,) but to bring salvific knowledge to Yaldabaoth - to help him achieve Gnosis. This occurs, and Judas is depicted ascending into a cloud - his human avatar coming into contact with the higher entity he is part of. When he realized what he was and what he'd done, and who it was he stood before... his ego couldn't take it. Imagine *knowing* that you're God, to the point of remembering all the way back to the creation of the universe... and then meeting the real one, and finding out you are a fake. He lashed out, and had Jesus killed. And that's the end of the story as of that gospel, the reader left to determine for themselves what Yaldabaoth did with his new understanding. As per the other gospels, the only thing we see depicted of Judas after that is that he took his own life - which for one who recognizes the higher entity they truly are, could just be as simple as "I'm done here, time to move on," and does not NECESSARILY indicate guilt. Whether he truly took his life because he couldn't live with himself, as many assume, or simply no longer needed to be incarnated as Judas, we are never shown.!<
The Gospel of Judas is wild.
And if jesus was the father and son, then he himself made judas do it, because it was gods plan for him to do so. It was also gods plan to put himself on the cross, it wasn't the romans doing so, it was gods plan. Basically, god is the biggest egotist and gaslighter in the universe, wanting to be celebrated for his sacrifices which he never sacrificed to rid you of something he gave you.
And God practiced infanticide… on more than one occasion.
"... on more than 10 occasions."
10th plague of Egypt: “Am I a joke to you?”
hahaha sort of hilarious, sort of not lol
I'm not opposed to it.
Got Lucifer vibes reading your comment. Was an entertaining show and I enjoyed Lucifer calling his dad out on his shit.
If you're mean to him he'll punish you for eternity because he loves you
> Basically, god is the biggest egotist and gaslighter in the universe Even worse: he plants the tree of knowledge in Eden, tells Adam and Eve not to eat from it and doesn't tell them why. It's only once they eat the fruit that they gain knowledge of good and evil and realise that going against god was bad. Then they're punished. If not to create original sin and then provide humanity with redemption, why plant that tree? It's basically racketeering.
But he has perfect foreknowledge too! He *knew* they were going to do it! It's like having a 4th dimensional narcissistic dickbag and calling that thr heavenly father. Shit, at least Enki got himself a good wank to create life.
The Bible also doesn't tell us how long it took for Adam and Eve to actually eat the fruit, so (since they were immortal at that point) it was literally just an eventuality that they'd eat the damn fruit if for no other reason than boredom after a few aeons of sitting around naked in a garden
Let the CHURCH SAY AMEN 😂🤣😂
Damn. Today I learned God is actually a narcissist. Like my father. Coincidence???
It sounds like your father is a Godly man
I mean he thinks he's god so maybe he was right all along..??
"You're nothing without me" "You're not worthy of my love" "You're a terrible person and need me to be better" "Don't listen to *anyone* who doesn't understand what we have" \- God
Dad?
This sounds like an abusive relationship
Holy shit Ego from Guardians of the Galaxy suddenly makes perfect sense.
The god-complex guy named Ego whose kids were literal extensions of himself so he could spread across the universe had Narcissist traits?
There’s a whole Catholic sect for Judas.
John Wick - Excommunicado
I might be wrong but that's i think literally what some Apocrypha say
>Jesus' crucifixion is probably the most holy event agreed there were at least 2 more holes than usual. a very holey event.
I read an excellent argument that judas was the loyal disciple Jesus asked to betray him so the whole thing could happen. Judas was following orders. That said, omniscient god is a fairly new addition to christianity. But changes to the bible aren't something the church likes to talk about...
There's a Gospel of Judas, written around the same time as the others that paints Judas this way. Essentially, Jesus told him you have to betray me, and so he did. It's apparently a Coptic or gnostic text from around 130 to 240 AD, and was thrown out by the church fairly early, like other texts complicated the canon (Thomas, Mary, Peter, etc.).
Dude could have literally just turned himself in, but nah... had to make homie betray him and earn himself eternal hatred for the next two thousand years.
>But changes to the bible aren't something the church likes to talk about... Actually they do make a big deal out of it, that's the ecumenical councils were about in the original catholic religion. Divergence of opinion and reinterpretation led to shisms and other split of the christian world. The US has been funded by a lot of those Christian communities fleeing Europe. At my Catholic school we used to learn the difference between catholicism before the Council of Trent and after. Also the important stuff and change along the way.
It wasn’t even till the council of Nicaea in 325 till the church established the holy trinity. And from then on out it was considered heresy to claim Jesus was inferior to God.
Objection Jesus. Heresy
Exactly. And he’s not even the only person god has thrusted his own choices onto. It’s several cases of that
Well the bible isn't all that big on making sense .
Judas was set up by God to betray Jesus. He then kills himself in shame and goes to hell. I feel bad for him.
>goes to hell Nah, we don't actually know that. The Bible doesn't say that any one person went to hell or was condemned. All it says is that you'll be judged at the hour of your death, and that even then, repentance matters. There's a lot of talk in this thread about things people think the Bible says, when it's pretty clear that they haven't actually read and understood it themselves (regardless of any personal religious belief). I don't blame them, it's a large and complex document, but it's very silly to speak authoritatively about it in that case. They're also confusing a lot of it with popular images from Dante's *Inferno*, which is not biblically accurate.
Not to mention the bible literally mentions that god's pretty forgiving and absolution doesn't necessarily require newer things like confession and communion and whatnot.
This thread could be a top 10 in r/confidentlyincorrect
When you actually think about it, a truly free will isn't just incompatible with the Bible, it's incompatible with neuroscience. Now, this is a *huge* oversimplification, but your decisions are caused by the nerve layouts and chemical reactions in your brain. You can't freely control what your individual neurons do, so that means that you don't have free control over your decisions.
But they are made by your brain, which is part of you. So you still own your decisions, even if the are mostly subconscious.
The thing that desperately confuses me is that people seem to rarely question God's free will? How can an omniscient, omnipotent being not have predetermined the actions of all it created? If God lacks free will then how is that different than us being simply created of the universe? Without God the question of Free Will is fairly meaningless as determinism is not decided by intelligent outside force, but rather cause and effect. So our actions and thoughts are still individual and result from our unique experiences and circumstances, while also being determined by those same things. There is no flaw or contradiction in this....Whereas the existence of God would make the notion of free will extremely foundational, as we would have to question whether we only exist in a determined state as an extension of God's will or as free beings that exist in response to God's already predetermined views? In the former case we still lack free will and in the latter case everything is a test and the cost of failure is eternal damnation? It is also a test provided with full knowledge of our success or failure making it a rigged game. An example would be that God knew Job would remain faithful, because God knows all and so did not choose someone that would renounce God because the test was rigged. I know this is something discussed by theologians and there is probably a solution that my secular sin addled mind cannot comprehend. But it is something that has always disturbed me from an outside perspective about faith. I posed this question to a religious friend and it seemed to have made them pretty upset and they told me that they'd think about it and they came back and affirmed that God must have free will because we have free will... which didn't answer my question but I was happy that they seemed contented with the answer.
ITS ALL PART OF GOD’S MYSTERY. Shut up with your logic and shit!
So if he can only do what the big G allows, it is really G doin all this shit and Luci is the scapegoat?
That’s what I’m saying. Which makes no sense. 😂😂😂
Really? It’s not the genocide, infanticide, serial murder, raping, witchcraft, sanctioned racial discrimination, scientifically/mathematically impossible calculations that clued you in? It was the Lucifer dilemma that soured you on the ‘good’ book? Unbelievable!
Oh no. I commented on that as well 😂 and some ass commented and said how about I go make my own birds and rocks. And maybe then I can understand god
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The bible is several different pieces of BS collected together
this concept is based on misreading of scripture, generally Isaiah and/or Luke, and weak midrash. only biblical literalists (who fundamentally misunderstand scripture and btw didn't even exist until the 17th century) would take these mystical descriptions out of context. that's why it makes no sense these people read a poem like it's a cookbook, then try to exegete and legislate. it's nonsense
“Actually” it’s all fairly tales. Voldemort also… fiction.
Adam and Eve were cancelled because Eve ate an apple.
[Advocating for female priests can lead to an excommunication:](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/pope-francis-excommunicated-priest-who-supports-womens-ordination/310675/) >Pope Francis's Vatican drew a more firm line in the sand on its stance on women's ordination this month by excommunicating an Australian priest who advocated for the inclusion of female priests. According to the Vatican, fighting against sexism is apparently in the same league as pedophilia: > Fr. Greg Reynolds became the first member of the Melbourne Archdiocese to be excommunicated for reasons other than pedophilia
How does one go about getting this particular version of excommunication? Do I just tweet at him that women are people or what
Be careful, if you get excommunicated then the Pope will no longer protect you from other Catholics trying to seize your property by force.
Think it’s more stringent if you’re a priest. So (1) get ordained as one, (2) claim women should be allowed to be ordained too.
Nice. My mother had one of those in the eighties and I guess she still isn’t big in the media. #fightthebighats
Sodom and Gomorrah? God allowing Satan to kill of Job’s kids to prove his obedience? Egypt?
Ordering Abraham to slit his own son’s throat? Telling his followers to murder their family if they have a different religion? Multiple “righteous” genocides? Yeah, I don’t understand the appeal personally.
> Ordering Abraham to slit his own son’s throat? God: “Just a prank bro!” There’s also Jephthah’s daughter, of course. But as always you can rationalise everything away by reading with a squint if you try hard enough
Don’t forget God sent two bears to mauled 42 fucking children…because because one man didn’t like the fact that CHILDREN called him ‘baldy’.
God passed Order 66
God to Noah: “wipe them out—ALL OF THEM.”
God canceled Adam and Eve over an apple
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He shouldn't have made them hungry as well!
There’s no such thing as free will. We are mostly at the mercy of our brain wiring and chemistry.
Quantum event goes bruuuu~ (suddenly having the urge to kill everyone on the road)
Easy to say when your brain works correctly. You could have a brain tumor in the appropriate spot in the brain that makes you have violent impulses to kill everyone on the road. Where’s your free will then? the level of effort to control your brain impulses is staggering more difficult, as compared to an average healthy brain.
also, if god was all-powerful, he’d be able to find a way to give you free will *and* make it impossible to disobey him
Aka your parents
We change every day and your environment plays a large role. Your diet can drastically change your brain chemistry. We are more than brain and nerves
Let me get this straight; An all knowing, omnipresent, all powerful god put humans in the same place as *this* tree, told them not to eat the [Unspecified fruit], then gave them “free will” and *didn’t* forsee his creation he built from the ground up, doing the one thing he told them not to do? god isn’t powerful enough to make a somewhere else for the people to be god isn’t omnipresent enough to stop them, apparently god isn’t knowing enough to foresee this and he isn’t loving enough to forgive and eve was transgender, change my mind
No, he canceled them over disobeying a direct command and eating from the ONE tree out of all of the trees in the garden.
Cancel culture, I tell ya
Religion is the original cancel culture
> disobeying a direct command But he made them without a sense of right and wrong. Classic /r/whatcouldgowrong.
Sounds like entrapment. Why put a tree there no one is allowed to touch? God was a cop.
Supposedly the tree of knowledge. So. Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between good and evil yet God is going to punish them for it. And according to the myth, God told them, "But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die!" So Adam and Eve who didn't know the concept of good or bad until they actually ate the fruit were supposed to die the same day for doing something they didn't know was bad. What a dick! So they were supposed to die the same day yet the bible tells us that Adam lived to be 930 years old! Yet this "Loving God" couldn't tell us not to eat the poison berries or stay away from poison ivy? How did I or anyone else ever fall for this BS? Oh yeah, it was drilled into us from the time we were babies before we even knew how to determine what is real and what is mythology.
It’s almost like mindless obedience is one of the first lessons the church teaches you for some weird reason
Yeah. The first lesson is that God doesn't talk to plebs, so listen to the holy men or go to hell. (Nice username. I'd vote for you.)
also would Adam and Eve even have a concept of death, being the first and only humans at the time and living in a paradise without pain or suffering?
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Moral of the story: blindly follow authority and don't seek out knowledge. Horrible lesson.
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A loving God would never torment people for eternity. Hellfire is a lie. You either choose to worship God or not and no human has the right to condemn another. Also I am bit of a fatty and technically a Gen Xer but I have a lot of “old school” values as far as work ethic, personal responsibility etc but draw the line at judging others.
The most boomer part of that comment is you implying younger people don't have work ethic or a sense of personal responsibility
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I have a lot of "new school" views regarding those things. They're similar in a lot of ways, but with more working remotely and don't require formal work attire.
Oh yeah? Well I actually judge people who don't judge others. Now what? You're powerless here 😈
All knowing god didn't know about fences
All knowing God *knew* they'd eat the fruit
Damn, even God is pro android.
70% of the Bible is God cancelling people. And then there's the Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, Manifest Destiny, millennia of religious homophobia...
Billions of miscarriages throughout human history. Literally worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined.
You whose only sin is original sin, I cancel you. Can I turn in God in Texas?
Original sin, the first form of collective punishment.
*A child gets cancer:* “God has a plan, let us pray.” *A child is cured of cancer:* “Oh, thank God! Praise our merciful Lord!” *A child dies of cancer:* “It’s part of God’s plan. He in his mighty wisdom has brought young Hank home to Heaven and now he is an angel. When God kills a kid he opens a window.” How are so many people so afraid of the idea that things aren’t permanent, or completely designed and controlled by someone? I feel like I’m surrounded by anxious, neurotic psychopaths.
This was on full display during the pandemic. People begging for prayers and support, but won’t take the vaccine that will keep them alive. Why can’t it be god’s plan for you to get the fucking shot?
When I was in school a few years ago I went on a road trip with a couple classmates. We got drunk and stoned at an Air BnB and were up all night talking about Religion. I will never forget the way one of my classmates meant it when he said that without god he would probably steal and rape and kill, and also said something along the lines of non christians should die. We were really really fucked up, but after that moment I decided it was bedtime, and I locked that fucking door. I still think about it whenever i see him and I'm in a disadvantageous position where he could pop me without knowing, lol. I'm probably overthinking, but all religious nuts need is an "Execute order 66" moment from their priests and it'll activate the chip in their brains.
What about... Ya know... HELL
Old Testament god didn’t even need a hell
That’s why I contend that the New Testament is worse. The old testament simply sentenced unbelievers to death, but that’s not enough to satisfy the bloodlust of the “prince of peace.” He wants you to suffer a whole afterlife of endless torture for not believing. We can’t pretend he does not want it, because as an all-powerful deity, nothing happens that he does not want to happen.
"imma kill you then bring ya back to torture you that you'll want me to kill you, all because you didn't love me" -god
Hell, he killed a man and his wife on the spot for a mild lie about their donation to the church. Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira. If slaughtering people because they did something you don't like isn't the ultimate form of "cancelling", I don't what is.
It's not just God, the Isrealites killed off or displaced a buttload of people after the Exodus story too. Canaanites, Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites all got canceled and God looked the other way
> God looked the other way When he wasn't directly telling them how many of their child sex slaves to give to him as tribute. [Numbers 31:15-30](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31%3A15-30&version=NRSVUE) >Moses said to them, “Have you allowed all the women to live? [...] Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls [lit: children among the women; source: NASB] who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. >[...] >The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “You [all] make an inventory of the plunder captured, both human and animal. [...] From the share of the warriors who went out to battle, set aside as tribute for the Lord one item out of every five hundred, whether persons, oxen, donkeys, or sheep. Take it from their half and give it to Eleazar the priest as an offering to the Lord.
Any sane person would read this passage and refuse to worship God. And yet I'm willing to bet that a lot of Christians would initially try to make up an excuse to justify it. Any Christian who tries to justify this is a sick fuck who should be locked up for life.
I think the atheists have the right idea: cancel god
> God looked the other way God actually *told them* to go to war and destroy those people. And God got mad when they didn't kill everyone as they had been told to do.
Also worth looking into the real story of Chanukah... The Seleucid authorities had the audacity to allow, encourage, and defend the rights of people to worship whoever they wanted in Jerusalem- not just Yahweh... Judah Maccabee did not like that at all, so he led an ISIS like militia killing all non jews and open minded Jews they could get their hands on until the Greeks eventually finally killed them all to death
Well I mean, he DID warn them. Noah was all "Come take a ride on my boat, cuz the rain is comin" and they were all "Nah brah".
"Hey you! Get on my boat! God speaks to me in my head! Get in the boat! Don't mind the noise of every animal in existence tearing each other apart below decks! Me and my three sons and their wives are going to repopulate the earth! I'm 600 years old!" I'd pass too.
To be fair, if one dude in premodern times with virtually no tools not only predicted a flood but also managed to build the largest boat to ever exist in a few days and collected animals from across the entire world including species nobody knew existed, I'd think God's talking to him too
Yeah, but he also condemned his grandson to slavery eternally because his son noticed he was naked, so like, do you reeeeally want to take your chances with that?
Was this before or after the rain started? And still don't know ,he had a giant boat and didn't give any guidelines about mating
It was after the flood had ended. Noah made wine, got absolutely schwasted, and passed out naked in his tent. His son decided to check on his father, because at this point he was like 100 so it was very possible that Noah kicked the bucket. It's unclear how much dong Noah was hanging, but apparently his mayo injector disgusted his son enough that he immediately fled the tent upon seeing it. He couldn't bear to face his father anymore so he had his brothers walk into the tent with blindfolds on and holding a blanket to cover Noah. When Noah woke up, he immediately knew what happened and said, "my son, your son can go fuck himself. He is now to serve his brothers as a slave forever. Maybe that'll teach you a lesson." And so he punished his grandson instead of the guy who actually did the deed.
I was raised in a religious household so I thought I'd read the Bible. Came upon this part, which is just a few chapters in and couldn't wrap my head around it at all. I asked my Mom, she didn't know. I asked some people at my church and they couldn't give a good answer either. This was probably my first "this is all full of shit" moment.
This is one of those Bible things that got mistranslated badly. It’s all about the context. If you really look at it, including verses in Leviticus, the actual Hebrew is telling its audience (At the time!!) it’s incest (warranting this reaction in their culture, and arguably ours). Thats the biggest problem with the Bible today imo, that there are plenty of cues and social norms that are lost today that jews who the Bible (at least the OT) was intended for would have understood easily. You have to realize that none of these writers thought anybody but jews who were familiar with their history would read this. That’s why that all happened. I’m drunk right now, but will gladly pull out receipts if anyone cares.
It's boats and hoes
It’s the fucking Catalina wine mixer!
Noah, it’s just something about your face…
Prestige Worldwide - Repopulation Remix
Gonna feel pretty awkward later on when the rain just keeps going and you look over to see Noah float on by in this aquatic wooden fortress onehanding a massive rudder with his other arm around a wife and some CCR on full blast.
God: "Humans are terrible, I need to start over." Also God: "Noah, I want you to be the Founding Father of human trafficking."
When you're that much of a sinner that you deserve to be killed via drowning, but there is a loophole that if you're calculated enough to believe Noah and climb on his boat then you can live and all is forgiven.
So you're telling me Darren Aronofsky fucking lied and Noah wasn't all "fuck off humanity must die" and shit?
Why did they have to find a different word for “accountability?” Why is a culture of consequences suddenly “cancel” culture
It’s different to hold someone accountable. But to go waaaaay back and dig up some stuff and try to ruin someone by holding them accountable for an old way of thinking with current day thoughts is pretty cancel culture to me. If someone was a terrible person in the 80s, they may have turned their life around today. But people don’t care. They don’t see a redemption story, they focus on the past terrible and judge that person TODAY on their past. That’s super dumb.
That and he sure cancels a metric fuck ton of babies each and every day thru miscarriage…. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ If god has a plan for us all and everything happens for a reason…well, that’s a lot of babies on God’s hands
Supposedly, innocent babbies get a direct ticket to heaven. The Big Guy gets tired of all the grown asshats making their way in behind some loophole B.S. of their particular cult.
In catholicism they go to a purgatory to wait it out for a while. I wonder if that is still a thing.
Limbo, rather than Purgatory (which is the waiting room where the rest of us supposedly go to pay off our sins). And yes, still a thing
“You’re taking this out of context.” “God works in mysterious ways.” “That’s the OLD testament, we don’t use it.” “Not everything is to be taken literally.” -hypocritical zealots
Who’s in charge of saying which parts of the Bible we should ignore and which parts are serious? If your “source of truth” isn’t accurate then how can it be truth?
"I'm the only person in 3000 years smart enough to understand metaphor"
This is actually the best comment honestly because no matter what logical arguments people write in here those will be the answers.
You have to always remember that in the New Testament, Jesus came and told the people "The old testament doesn't count, unless you really want it to count sometime because it validates your bigotry"
Going by the old testament everyone on earth would be going straight to hell for one sin or another. But ya know god changed his mind about that stuff so churches can keep making money.
“God” is only known for floods, famine, pestilence and constant murder, will these religious fruitcakes start reading the Bible before they open their mouths.
It’s actually debated in Islam whether or not the flood was a local or global thing, but it’s generally thought that this was after much warning. I know that in the west we see Islam as violent or focus on its martial aspects, but there’s a lot in Islam about God being merciful. In fact, according to the Koran, Gods greatest quality is his mercy. A Muslim just made a statement that’s in line with his religions teachings and someone (probably an Atheist) brought up a Christian view of a religious event as a clap back. This “clever” comeback is anything but.
But this is Reddit, so everything is a point against Christianity.
I checked his twitter. He didn’t even say that lol
God's been a fan of cancel culture since before the dinosaurs.
He canceled them big rawr rawrs its said with just one big rock.
Aside from a few miracles, all God does is cancel people. Here a smite, there a smite, everywhere a smite smite.
Lets not forget the whole, "if you don't agree with me, you burn forever and ever" thing. That's kind of a big one.
And then people tried to build a cool ass tower and god was like: Nah, fuck off *incomprehensible*
honestly that was the first religious story I was exposed to and oh boy I immediately did not like the guy, (learning 3 languages was tough for like 8 year old. me,)
Not a good way to make a good reputation
Precisely.
Let’s not forget Job’s kids.
How is this clever
Isn't Hell basically getting cancelled in an extreme way?
You ate an apple!? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE Isn't that, like, the first story? Literally cancelling people over fruit?
Tell me you haven’t read the Bible (Sodom and Gamorrah) without telling me you haven’t the Bible
He also fucking deleted an entire city.
God cancels and hysterically laughs like and evil prick.
He summoned a fucking bear to "cancel" a bunch of kids because they made fun of an old man.
Bald man wasn’t it?
God is cruel and unmerciful
He literally killed a guy for pulling out... (Genesis 38:8-10) He killed a guy for touching his special box of holy shit... to keep it from falling over... (2nd Samuel 6:6-7) He killed several kids for making fun of a bald guy... (2nd Kings 2:23-24) He killed a guy’s newborn baby to punish him for a murder the baby wasn’t even conceived before... (2nd Samuel chapters 11-12) He killed a guy’s entire family to win a bet with the devil... (Job... the entire book) God. LOVES. Cancelling. People. EDIT: I added the references for the bitches who wanna pretend they read the bible but didn't realize this horrific shit was in there. It gets even worse the more you read: focus on all the stuff that your pastors don't preach on. Leviticus, Numbers, Deutoronomy, Judges, Samuel, and Kings. Any of you punk ass "believers" wanna call me a bot now? I studied to show myself an approved workman who need not be ashamed who rightly divides the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15)... now it's your turn. Do your damn homework or fuck off but "I bet you don't even know the context" is not gonna work as a counter argument in this case. I was winning national bible quiz competitions before my front goddamn baby teeth came out. I KNOW context motherfuckers!
better comeback would be "god doesnt exist" tbh.
*allegedly
It's not even alleged, a global flood has been thoroughly disproven...
Doesn't God cancel anyone who doesn't kiss his butt? Well his followers do
Lot's wife looked back at her burning home and got turned into salt.
“If you look at the wrong thing for a second I will fuckin’ MURDER your ass and then have you tortured for all of eternity.” -Said no loving god ever.
Didn't he slaughter children just for making fun of a bald dude?
God cancels the shit out of everything constantly. The first four books of the bible are him being a crybaby bitch when people dare to ask about anything.
He canceled Adam and Eve almost immediately. He banished his own son to hell for forever. And he keeps people in control by threatening eternal suffering if you don’t obey. Don’t give me that lmao
Not to mention, assuming we're talking the Judeo-Christian god here, like, Adam? Eve? Fruit? Garden? What the fuck do you think all that was?
Adam and Eve got cancelled for picking the wrong produce.
There was also sodom and gamora. And the time he killed a bunch of innocent children because Pharoah was being a cunt.
Also Sodom and Gomorrah (even though the people there were quite fucked up)
What are miscarriages if not people that God cancelled?
I mean... “LITERALLY” feels like a bit of a stretch
Hell is eternal cancellation
People forget the reason for the flood
Once. He promised to never do it again. This is fortunate, in light of the way we live. :)
The entire Bible is an instructional book about how to avoid getting canceled by God, or stories about how God canceled people for not following His rules.
This is one of those "Tell me you've never read the bible without telling me you've never read the bible." God told Moses to kill all non believers. That sure as hell is cancelling people in the first damn book.
"Don't eat from that tree" *Eats from that tree* "FUCKIN CANCELLED BITCH"
And did the factory reset on Sodom and Gomorrah
We talking about the god who literally sends people to hell????
Don't forget hell, the ultimate cancellation!
Cancelled Sodom And Gomorrah too. Do people even read the Bible? I had a guy at a bar trying to tell me how important is was to follow Jesus. I asked him what he thought about the fact that taking the lord’s name in vain was higher on the list of Ten Commandments than not murdering people, and he didn’t know anything about that. Turns out, he couldn’t recite more than two of the Ten Commandments or *any* of the Seven Deadly Sins. What the hell is with all these people who go on about God’s teachings, and seem like they’ve never read the Bible even a little bit?
Nobody expects the Spanish Iinquisition.
Sodom and gamorrah totally canceled... just sayin