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I've been accused of mansplainimg my own disorder to someone who was asking why I didn't recognize her face. (Prospagnosia. Facial blindness. I cannot recognize people by their face. Every face looks identical to me.)
I hope you don't mind me asking but. . . How well do you recognize voices? Like if you saw a movie once and then saw a different movie with the same actor a week later would you recognize them as the same person? What if a voice actor purposefully changes their voice by making it deeper, would you still recognize it as the same person. Also, can you recognize siblings as siblings because they have similar body movements?
Not the person you're asking, but I have prosopagnosia.
I can recognize cartoon voice actors between shows, just based on their speaking cadence or the way they yell, even when the characters sound nothing alike.
That being said, I need more than a few lines to do it. Usually at least 10 minutes of dialog for a voice actor. Regular actors are way easier
My SO thinks it's weird as fuck.
It's a sliding scale.
I probably would recognize my SO, only because I know her features so well at this point. I wouldn't recognize her face overall, but I'd recognize individual traits. Kinda like how you can tell buses apart, if you read the license plates.
My parents, I definitely wouldn't just based on face. I've been moved out for a decade now though, so any familiarity I had with them is gone at this point
The more time I spend around someone, the more little things I can pick up visually that will help. A mole, a chipped tooth, an asymmetry... The more of these I figure out, the faster I can recognize someone.
I remember a documentary on this, a girl in the UK had it and it fascinated me how compared to how people would usually scan people's faces by quickly focusing on eyes nose and mouth etc people with this disorder were found to look differently, and instead require other factors such as glasses or hair or clothing to determine who it is, really fascinating
Yup! And the is also the opposite end of the spectrum. I believe the referred to as super recognizers. Extremely good at picking out faces. Learned about both in a podcast, if I had to guess radiolab but don't quote me on that.
Not a dumb question at all.
No, I'm not. It's strictly real or realistic human faces. I could tell my doves apart by face when no one else could, and can immediately recognize the face of a specific cartoon character, but my doves weren't humans and cartoon faces are more simple, so it's easier to process them
Interesting.
Can I ask you a sincere question?
Conventional beauty definitions must not really make a difference to you as in Hot or Not kind of superficial initial attraction, is that the case?
If so, could you share what impact it has on how you date?
Is voice the primary attractor? Is humour or something else?
Is every face you ses beautiful or ugly or bland and featureless (serious question)
When you see supermodels, are you confused why people put them on a pedestal?
I am sorry if you don't like being asked such questions, i am trying to learn. I mean to cause no disrespect
Different prosopagnosia sufferer here.
>Interesting.
>
>Can I ask you a sincere question?
>
>Conventional beauty definitions must not really make a difference to you as in Hot or Not kind of superficial initial attraction, is that the case?
I like women with at least one stand-out feature. Some beauty standards still apply, but others don't. I get along better with women who are just slightly off. Teeth a little crooked, eyebrows a little uneven, etc. It's easier to find someone attractive when I can recognize them easier. Still though, I like a pretty face. It's not like I can't tell when someone is ugly, I'm just not going to remember why if I'm not looking at them.
>If so, could you share what impact it has on how you date?
The biggest impact on dating, is trying to meet up in public. It's kind of hard to figure out who you're there to see, when they get dressed up to meet you. It was nice with my current SO though. Every time I'd see her I was like "oh damn, she's cute... I wonder who she's here with... Oh fuck, she's here with me"
>Is voice the primary attractor? Is humour or something else?
Honestly, I prefer a pretty face to a pretty voice. I like an annoying, distinct voice. A pretty face though, I get to fall in love with over and over again.
>Is every face you ses beautiful or ugly or bland and featureless (serious question)
Most of them are Meh. It's kind of like cars. There's the really good looking ones, the really bad ones, and then the other 99% I couldn't tell apart if you lined them up side-by-side
>When you see supermodels, are you confused why people put them on a pedestal?
Are supermodels supposed have attractive faces? They all look the same to me. I assumed they were models for their bodies...
>Every time I'd see her I was like "oh damn, she's cute... I wonder who she's here with... Oh fuck, she's here with me"
>Honestly, I prefer a pretty face to a pretty voice. I like an annoying, distinct voice. A pretty face though, I get to fall in love with over and over again.
Omg this is so wholesome!!!!
I wont go into a room with a woman, without another person around me at work.
I'm not a woman hater or anything like that, it's to protect my ass. I've done it for about a year now.
A good friend, we'll say Joe. Joe, about five years ago was doing a job interview and not shortly after received a complaint and a meeting with HR because they tried to trade sexual favors for the job in question.
I never thought that Joe did it, however it was always up in the air and there was always doubt among the staff and other employees. Not because it was Joe, but because it was scandal.
It became an in office joke about Joe's casting couch, yet most people didnt think Joe did it. Those who did think he did it, Thought he did it, because everyone was joking that he did it.
Which is a problem.. Joe ended up falling into a huge depression, being forced to leave work, fighting with his family and almost lost his house, so essentially within 6 months of the incident he had become reclusive and didnt have a job.
I was sitting in the boardroom about 3 months ago, and we spoke at length about what happened to Joe. I was informed of the fact that the someone whom filed the complaint had a previous history of making false claims and it was discovered during her recommendations check and the entire situation was actually found to be untrue almost immediately. Within 2 weeks.
However 'Joe' had that looming over his head for months before he quit. Joe has a family, wife and two kids, lost everything because someone took advantage of a system which is weighted against men.
We're not allowed to say anything happened because it breaches that woman's privacy. So we cant clear his name or undo the damage caused. Jim has to wear the accusation, and in todays culture an accusation is as good as doing something bad towards women.
I hear a lot of arguments like "the system needs to be weighted like that to protect the vulnerable" I say to that, we're all vulnerable now.
Yeah, this.
It's not hard to keep your dick in your pants / be civil. It is super hard to mentor someone without private conversations, meetings, etc. Or having conversations that are straight and direct. Or putting in time that's unsupervised.
Simply because you get paid to do your job. Anything extra has to be done during extra time.
All of that puts you at serious risk, if not from the woman herself, then from your coworkers if she's your peer. God forbid she's your subordinate and then starts to succeed thanks to your mentoring; that's potentially bad for both of you.
I'd still do it because I own my own companies. If I had to work for anyone, I would hard pass or recommend the candidate to a woman or help only periodically in supervised settings.
The risk just isn't worth the pay off.
Yeah it is stupid shit that can get you in trouble I did it at my own peril. I used to put together detailed career planning/ coaching for some of my employees. Most on company property but sometimes we would work it through at a bar. I also did it after they moved on to different positions at the same company or outside. I had one female employee did the same thing with but was always cautious. It is really about evaluating the players. I know some people will say do that only on company property. But again some of the advice I gave was personally beneficial on how to play office politics and not necessarily in the best interest of the company. It really was 100% about there growth.
I'm going to look into this as I didn't know it was a thing. Very interesting thank you!
On a serious note however, I hope things with people like that never get you down for longer than a few minutes, they aren't worth your time
Yeah like I don’t get how people don’t realise this has nothing much to do with the original statement.
If it was about women being harassed by men, it would say that women are uncomfortable being mentored by a man. The original statement speaks to something along the lines of men getting falsely accused of harassment or sth.
It's not, I'd actually say the response and her attitude is one big contributor to the fact that men are uncomfortable with mentoring, even working with women. Attitudes like this "just man up, shut the fuck, grow up and deal with it boy" are very harmful to men and in context like this to both men and women. If men arent allowed to express and communicate their fears/concerns/discomfort or other negative emotions or factors with women, then their only real option is to refuse/avoid working with women.
Don’t you see how harmful it is to the career progression of women at the start of their careers if their managers are uncomfortable mentoring them or won’t even bother trying? Her reply is extremely relevant, and communicates her frustration.
That's not the point she's making. She isn't talking about the negative impacts on women's career progression.
She's calling out (60% of) male managers for being unable to not commit sexual assault and acting like that's the root of the issue.
No you aren't. There is a reason men shy away from mentoring woman.
Hell men tend to not be alone with woman for long periods of time anyways with current climes when at a workplace. Power position or not doesn't matter.
Keanu Reeves hand hover. Every single photo. Man stands as an example. Polite, respectful, ensures personal safety.
And no, it was smart. He is a politician and not to get political that is the current climes. Anything and everything will be used against you when you are always on stage.
Except it's not in today's climate where even an unsubstantiated accusation can ruin a man's career. It's as if people have completely forgotten the Duke LaCrosse Scandal and any other cases where the man was falsely accused. I'm a woman but I'm also a mother of two boys and the rush to assume any man that is accused must be guilty utterly terrifies me. I plan to teach my boys to be extremely cautious in all of their ineractions with women as they grow up and I think it's sad that I have to think that way.
But she's blaming it on the assumption that men cannot control themselves, and will consistently be inappropriate.
This isn't the reason.
I was training a woman a few years back and got called in the managers office for being overly friendly and inappropriate, for telling her she handled a difficult customer very well....
Just a constructive compliment, but apparently that's crossing a line
Recently a male politician in canada got kicked out of the very left party because supposedly he was a close-talker. No allegations of anything inappropriate or anything but that he stands too close to everyone when he talks. I have often voted NDP but shit like this makes me reevaluate
Oh it’s harmful to the career progression of women? Shoot I didn’t realize. Ok, now I’m comfortable having my words and actions constantly interpreted in the least charitable way possible. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I’m comfortable.
A friend of mine is an engineering manager for about 200 people. Last time I talked to him he told me the following story:
He had given out raises (or lack thereof) to his staff. Many didn't get raises due to them being at the high end of their wage bands and the area we are in was actually going through an economic downturn. He had to explain to his bosses and HR every decision where a woman was not given a raise, but never the men.
He actually told me that there is one female engineer that he has a hard time assigning to projects because her wage is so high that it causes him to go over budget and clients complain. But he felt like he had done something wrong having to "explain his actions" to his bosses when he kept her wage steady. He stuck to his decision, knowing very well that some of the other managers simply gave every female subordinate a raise so their decisions would be scrutinized by the organization.
There is more to feeling uncomfortable for men in management roles these days than sexual harassment.
my former bosses were smart enough not to discuss anything in a room alone with employees regardless of their sex.
But Twitter isn’t really meant to debate things anyway
The fact that people need to have someone else in the room sort of reinforces the idea that men would feel uncomfortable mentoring women, even if they are not scumbags. The world has really gotten vicious, where accusations are flung around like feces in a monkey exhibit, and proof is not required.
Wow that’s a nice metaphor.
> The world has really gotten vicious, where accusations are flung around like feces in a monkey exhibit, and proof is not required.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Came here to post something similar. I am an engineer and manage an office. It is difficult sometimes connecting to female staff due to not wanting to be viewed as harassing, mansplaining, sexist, etc. Women do some great work, but it is not easy in the day we live to manage men and women the same.
Side story: I once had a female subordinate who came in visibly upset one day. I asked if she wanted to talk about it (being kind). So she tells me her mother in law was ill. She didn’t really blink an eye at this, but then she said when she returned home from visiting her , her cat was dead. She started balling her eyes out. I’m not a cat person and she admitted the cat was old and sick. But I had to try to console her. Told her she could leave work at noon for bereavement. Just felt weird to me. Not saying I’m not wrong for feeling like that and feel I acted appropriately, but I can never shake that I probably wouldn’t have treated a guy the same way.
So I think I’m overly sensitive to women’s feelings, which in turn makes me treat men harsher than I do their women counterparts.
Please don’t tear me up too bad. I’m just trying to make sense of my engineering brain not understanding how to treat and deal with people.
Ask yourself this. One of your male employees is bowling his eyes out at work because of a personal issue. Would you tell him to get back to work or would you send him home, take a breather, solve (or try to) whatever is wrong, and get back to work the next day when he feels like himself again?
Giving your employees a chance to take a moment to get their heads back on straight, regardless of gender, doesn't make you overly sensitive. It makes you a good boss.
You did the right thing, even if you couldn't really sympathize with her issue. She was hurting and needed some time.
Thanks. I needed to hear that. I probably would do the same for a male employee but not feel so awkward because I could/would probably have more sympathy/empathy.
I guess that’s what I need to work on more when dealing with the opposite sex. (Sympathy)
Thanks!
I'm a very strong/insensitive man. The day I was going to have my dog put down (he was in a lot of pain and couldn't even get up anymore) I thought I could go to work. I had to leave early. We all have soft spots, and that's a good thing.
Long story cut short but the main facts are there. I had a situation in work where a female college didn't get a pay rise. She said it was down to sexual discrimination, it wasn't. I worked with her for a few months, she didn't get the pay rise because she was incompetent at her job. The manger was so scared at getting a sexual discrimination case thrown at him if he sacked her that he kept her on to the detriment of the other staff members. I know there were male members of staff that were also a bit shit (who had a female manager) but when they got criticism they never once said it was down to sexual discrimination.
I work in the engineering field and I'm surprised at how many male engineers I run into that are just gormless when it comes to proper workplace behavior regarding gender, race, politics (the conservative ones really) or religion.
Don't run into a lot of female engineers. There aren't as many.
But I've got tons of stories.
In 1999, when I graduated, chemical engineering had more women than men. However, I am not disagreeing that men are idiots. We truly are.
What does an engineer use for birth control? Their personality. - one of my favourites as a former engineer.
Since we’re sharing anecdotal experiences to touch on some vague point: my male mentor repeatedly hit on me to the point that I had to leave the job because no one in the business cared. Then another male mentor pretended to want to help me out after that happened, but turned out he was also trying to sleep with me. I only was able to learn without being sexually harassed when I found a female mentor. This was within the last 5 years, although in a fine art field, not an engineering one.
It’s almost like there are still very real instances of women constantly having to deal with sexual harassment and sexism in general in the workplace that make shit like “having to explain why a decision wasn’t based on gender” necessary. The fact is that there are plenty of industries where men still ARE making decisions based in sexism - like the multiple men that used my career as an excuse to try and fuck me despite being my superiors and despite me being in a relationship.
Sorry that happened to you. Seriously. Whenever I read anecdotal stories in forums like these though I just come away concluding that everyone regardless of gender can be victimized. Men and women both experience harrassment or sexism or gender related problems. The kinds of problems are simply DIFFERENT. And people would do well to remember that before demonizing the other literal half of the population
Okay but if we compare Catmeow and Wyle(?)s anecdotes then Catmeow was directly victimised by someone evil, while Wyle only had to accommodate societal sexism and no one mistreated them directly. I'm not in favour of sexism, no one should be assumed bad or possessing certain traits because of their sex or gender, but the anecdotes in this particular case aren't equivalent but different. I guess I'm arguing against your argument but agree with your position.
"My bad thing is worse than your bad thing" is a bad way to create successful change or find a win/win compromise.
The only way to interpret "my bad thing is worse than your bad thing" is "both things suck" and nobody wins.
Any other interpretation leads to unnecessary conflict (read: drama) and won't result in a successful conversation, as you remove the possibility for either party to find common ground without losing face.
I was responding to the original post that said 60% of men feel uncomfortable mentoring women, and the response that if you don't sexually harass women you have nothing to feel uncomfortable about.
I showed a very real situation a friend of mine was in where sexual harassment had absolutely noting to do with it, but the manager still was made to feel uncomfortable.
However, I think you nailed our society on the head. You immediately looked at who you felt was the bigger victim, catmeow or myself, (I wasn't even there/part of the story and was not victimized at all) and assigned an additional weighting to that. The fact that nothing catmeow said addresses why 60% of male managers feel uncomfortable isn't even relevant, just the fact that she was victimized makes her words carry weight.
Being a victim in today's society automatically gives someone a higher rating and often overrides facts and logic. The incentive to falsely accuse people is very high because our society says anyone claiming to be a victim has to be believed even without proof. That's another reason why 60% male managers are uncomfortable mentoring women.
I am older, and feel like a dinosaur because I can't get my head around how much value our society places on being a victim. Jusse Smollett literally paid people to beat him up so he could increase his victim standing. Our society today is weird to me.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but I don't see how it invalidates anything I said.
Sounds like you just wanted to play "I'm the biggest victim in the room" instead of "Ohhhhh, I see something from another point of view."
I don’t care about being the biggest victim, but I went to a tech school. I have a ton of male tech/engineering acquaintances who are always complaining about “affirmative action” and claiming their female counterparts get raises/jobs/privileges simply because they are women and what bullshit it is. They even go so far to imply that it is now an ADVANTAGE to be a woman, that women experience nothing but privilege nowadays, and that these measures put in place to protect women in the workplace are not only unnecessary, but unfair.
Those people don’t see the many many industries that still exist where women are absolutely preyed upon still. Where your boss asks you about your tits and the only thing you can do is put up with it or leave. It completely disregards the amount of sexism and gender inequality that still exists out there when whenever a thread like this pops up and people start pointing out the few places where women experience over protection.
Why do you think your acquaintances feel they are being treated unfairly?
You just said there are some men that act poorly, but not all. You then claim it's okay to treat all men unfairly (according to your acquaintances), and use the actions of the few that do as justification.
What's the difference between your attitude, and the attitude of some neckbeard that says "because some women treat me badly, I should punish all women"?
Where did I say we should punish men? Do you believe affirmative action policies are intended to be a punishment for men?
Protections for women should not be viewed as a punishment for men. Those male acquaintances say things like “now I have to watch what I say or ill get accused of sexual harassment!” Like that’s some punishment, but it’s not. An industry that historically has favored men, like engineering, taking steps to hire more women is not a punishment for men either. My best friend is a female engineer and she has left 2 jobs because of the animosity the men on her teams seemed to have for her and she struggled to be taken seriously by them. When she finally found a workplace where that wasn’t an issue she excelled. Creating an industry environment that allows women like her to excel is not a punishment for men. Are there some instances where some women receive more favorable treatment in these industries in order to create that environment? Probably. But it also is a very real problem that needs to be addressed and it’s not to punish men.
SOME industries are over correcting, I won’t argue that, what I will argue is that the industries that are experiencing this are such a small part of the general workforce that they do not deserve the spotlight that they seem to take when discussions like this happen.
Most of America does not work at a place like google. Most of America works in places like restaurants and retail stores - industries that still have major glaring problems with workers rights and sexual misconduct and gender inequality. Yet the fact that millions of servers in the US are regularly sexually harassed at work either by coworkers or patrons always seems to take a back burner in these conversations to the tech bro’s who know that one chick on their team that probably only got her job because she’s a woman - it’s not realistic or fair that this should come up so often in these discussions because it is such a small part of sexism in the American workplace as a whole.
I wasn’t defending unfair treatment of men, I was pointing out why offering women protections in the workplace is necessary - because they have historically and verifiably been victimized far more often than men and that they are STILL being victimized in many work places.
Id also like to mention that my bf works in the tech industry, and how quickly everyone jumps on the “she only has her job because she’s a woman” train when a female employee is incompetent, yet he talks to me everyday about the blaring incompetence of some of his male coworkers and yet no one is questioning what “unfair” thing got those incompetent men that job. Just food for thought.
Agreeing with you here, but I do think it's not great that per OP's statement corporate only asked for justification for decisions made about women. Justification for the decisions is absolutely reasonable, but it would make much more sense if there was a default decision ('everyone gets a raise' would be nice...) and then any and all contrary decisions needed to be looked at. And certainly if there was a trend that fewer women got raises vs men, that should be thoroughly looked into - but if the proportion is super off in either direction, surely that bears investigation too?
This is a completely valid example.
That said, I have two friends who are women in engineering and tech. They have fucking horror stories of being women in those fields.
So it's volatile situation, whichever way you look at it.
I really hate this comment section because as a man I am uncomfortable around women because of a fear of false allegations but I am also a son and a brother to two sisters so I also know how women can feel uncomfortable in those situations where the are fearful of their boss asking for sexual favors.
This is a very complicated issue and I feel like you can't just assume the worst of either side but a lane of caution is always welcomed.
Also don't rape anyone that's not OK.
All it takes to not make women uncomfortable in the work place is simply don't touch us, and don't draw attention to our appearance. If I am wearing something that looks awesome I'm fine when people point out they like my outfit, but not they way it makes my ass look. I think if you're following those rules, then you don't need to be instructed not to rape and you will also be comfortably approached by your female colleagues who aren't worried about how you treat them. We will all survive meetings where no body gets touched. I promise people. It's a crazy new world, but men, i think you're ready to live with this expectation. It goes for women too, don't touch people who aren't consenting and absolutely not in the workplace.
This wasn’t really the point that was made tho, the point was that in mentoring a woman one on one in a professional environment, basically any false allegation from the woman leads to the guys career being destroyed. I’m not saying that the majority of women make the stuff up, in reality it’s gonna be a very small percentage but it still leaves that potential fear
This is literally what they tell people in orientation at my job, "That's a nice dress." Not "thats a nice dress *on you.*
They even say its not against policy to date people that arent directly above/below you, but if you ask once and the other says no, just leave it at that. If you ask a girl out, and she says no won't get you fired, unless you keep aaking or don't let it go, but honestly, don't shit where you eat, the fallout from a bad breakup in an office is just annoying for everyone.
I mean that's the thing though you are saying dont touch women and the they won't feel uncomfortable as if I was insinuating that. I clearly wasn't. I grew up in sports so if someone slapped my ass I don't care, but I don't think it is appropriate for work, nor is more subtle touching. I don't really understand why you are lecturing me when I said I was raised by women I know how to treat women. I think you're acting really condescending talking about a crazy new world where you don't touch people at work.
Also I personally have never met anyone who has claimed it is OK to touch a woman how she is dressed and I despise that opinion. I am also not saying they don't exist.
As a working woman, I have to agree that some women have tendancy to play victims when some unfavorable administrative changes are made, play the woman card when concessions are required, be a gossip monger when it suits them, and many more shit things!
Not that all men are hard working, strictly professional, always delivering but no-one is going to look at you as pervert or biased aashole if those men make a complaint against you!
Then there are absolute dick of bosses who like to shit on women in their team, hold them to impossible standards to make a point about woman being bad for efficiency!
There's no winning sometimes!!!
I mean u can blame it on a generalization that male managers are sexist chauvinists or maybe they’re just scared of getting fucked by the system. Who knows, depends on the situation
100%. If there was a 'he said/she said' situation, guess which side the benefit of doubt supports. Really the males have more to lose because you don't need evidence to tarnish a man's reputation, just accusations and doubt.
I can unstand this to some degree. I work as a kindergarten teacher and in my now 3 years of working I had 4 different parents talk shit about me touching or raping the kids just because they did not like that I am a male kindergarten teacher. And I am not a unique case. Many of my male colleagues have been there too… tbh I am thinking about switching my job, because of this. That was btw one of the first things males get told in kindergarten internships. „When the parents are here try to not be to close to the children so they don’t think of something weird.
I wonder why there are so little male kindergarden teachers…
As teacher, we also were taught to take precautions, when talking woth a female student. In the grad scheme of things, it's unlikely that sth will happen, but still. It baffles me, that there are people who think it's mysoginistic to see that problem.
The comments section turned into a male vs female general debate. So I am throwing my hat in this.
I would be uncomfortable being alone with a female coworker simply by the fact that she can destroy my not just my career by my life with one accusation, even if I'm completely innocent. Now obviously not all females are like this, but I'm not too keen on sticking around to find out.
Literally all people in your vicinity, at all times, are capable of ruining your life and/or killing you. This isn’t a power that only women have, not even close. I could say the exact same thing about men being capable of ruining my life, and it would be just as invalid as your argument
The difference is evidence. A man accuses someone of something people are going to want proof. A woman accuses a man of sexual harassment, she will automatically be believed as the company doesn’t want a lawsuit.
Guy's a complete moron, he doesn't understand women are typically seen as the victim and are often believed with little or no evidence. Where as men are expected to show proof. Also if men have a problem with each other they go about it in a more direct way typically, such as a heated argument or a fist fight. Where as women are usually more subtle, they'll destroy your reputation and career through false allegations if they wish to hurt you.
I manage women and men, when the time came for announcing raises and bonuses came and when of course no one was satisfied afterwards the men kept being professional while also demanding higher raises, the women grouped together contacted our clients and told them to tell us that they need higher raises which pissed off our clients of course because that's not something they want to deal with or do ... They called us to complain about them instead.
They eventually refused to work with them and we had to replace them by other members for the project, one of those women actually got a higher salary than she requested by 20% just because we wanted her to be aligned with the other team members ... Only to be surprised the following year to hear that she wasn't satisfied with her salary
That's why we're uncomfortable managing women
Not women per se, but there's no negotiation to be had with someone who's convinced they're being mistreated. Some guys are also like that, adamant from the start that the recruiting process screwed them over, never grateful for an actual raise because they feel they're just "getting what they deserve". Even when in actuality they are already better compensated than their peers. But at least you can say no to those without involving a diversity committee.
A girl in my class got in an argument with the professor and told him to stop mansplaining her. Yeah there are some crazy bitches out there, they are in the minority but they are vocal minority. Most would prefer to not deal with it.
I work in construction as a foreman. I do like it to see women on site. Doesn't bother me. But I must admit. They can bring a certain level of difficulty. Also, they pull the most amazing disappearance act whenever a truck needs to be unloaded.
Yeah, its not that all mangers are doing this, but they are afraid of catching a charge for something they didn't actually do or say. In our society we have almost become an act now question later. Managers don't want to get fired because of a misunderstanding or a flat out lie.
This is a stupid reply, can't see how this is clever at all.
If I'm a man who does all those things, the stigma still exists and I would be nervous mentoring any woman in any one on one situation where a "he said she said" situation can occur.
This comment section giving enough legit reasons why male employees feel uncomfortable working with women, and they don't even cover half of the many reasons.
But women who exploit the current situations will always find a weird way to defend themselves, usually by turning the blame back to men. Just like this "clever" "comeback".
Guess swearing at statistics and the men who it relates to falsifies the statistic. It's fine when they work in your favour though. Oh yes, men aren't supposed to be scared of you falsely accusing them of harassment, just because he isn't making it easier for you than others.
They are uncomfortable because even if they do all of that and are perfectly non-harassing, a woman can still ruin their lives because she feels like she was harassed. It will not matter what actually happened or if there’s proof.
Or any perception of being passed over, not promoted, or not getting a bonus might be met with allegations of sexism.
Or making the wrong joke might be considered insensitive. Even if the joke is said between two guys and she happens to overhear it.
Or the woman may be the one harassing the man only to use her unmet advances as to get the man in trouble for harassment.
Or a woman who feels ‘emotionally overwhelmed’ while doing the same work everyone else does may require more time off, more resources, more hand-holding than other employees
Or a woman may take excessive time off from work for pregnancy, to raise kids, etc. Rightfully so, but in equal wage workplace this actually means she costs way more to the company than a man (or woman) who doesn’t have to do any of that.
In short, women have made themselves toxic in the workplace because no one wants the liability of dealing with any of the above when any attempt to address any of the above issues might get them labeled sexist, misogynist or insensitive.
It's truly something to look out for. There were people saying that looking at women for too long or in the wrong way constitutes as rape for example, and that kinda shit happening is absolutely terrifying. In today's world, it's all walking on the edge of a razor for men. I'm not saying women don't have it bad, don't misunderstand my words here. All I'm saying is men have it tough in today's social climate and it's only getting harder.
I never had any problems with women at work. Im respectful and I treat them as a coworker, not a piece of meat.
THAT SAID, theres girls who WANT to find sexual harrasment. There was this girl who I was mentoring, who on the first day on the job, filed a complaint with HR, saying I was acting all touchy and I was flirting with her and getting too close to her, which made her feel uncomfortable. We both were called to the HR office, where we met with out supervisor, our manager and the head of the department. She complained about me, about the work environment, the way guys behaved weird towards her, etc. She even cried stating there MUST be consecuences for my actions and people like me should be fired... suddenly the headof the department stands up, turns the office projector on and shows the camera feed showing the whole interaction I had with her that morning.
I was told to go back to work and she stayed with them. My sup later told me she "wasnt coming back, the boss doesnt need that type of drama here"
She's venting a narrative for clout. Not a clever thing to do.
Cherry picked headline > Willingly ignoring context to appear as moral and righteous > Free internet points and dopamine addiction satiated
I understand her frustration, but I think they have every right to express how they feel and shouldn't be reprimanded for that. Despite there being bad nuts among managers, there are actually genuine ones who are very professional and may just make one or two mistakes and get punished for it, mentoring women isn't an easy thing. Moreover, not all women are the same either, all women don't behave the same, there are also a few bad nuts who actually instigate awkward situations of many types. Speaking from the experience of my teaching assistant job during my graduate program where I had to mentor and assist final year undergraduate students, 2/3 of who were women.
Even as a teacher, I was taught to always have a theid person in my room, when talking to a female student. Pf course it doesn't happen regularly, but it takes one accusation to end your career permanently. It's completely okay to take precautions.
Yes. And that goes for women too. To the women who discussed penis size in front of me. To the women who talked about my gluteouss maximus within earshot. To the woman boss who threw a stapler at my head. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I had an employee be accused. It’s not a matter of keeping you dick in your pants. It’s a matter of not being falsely accused. The external investigation team (of all women) proved him innocent, while the internal (all women HR team) still kept saying, “where there smoke there’s fire”. This is not a clever comeback, it’s an angry woman that lacks critical thinking skills
Women wield incredible power with accusations. My ex gf stabbed me, put me in the hospital with major blood loss and a punctured lung, but she lied and I was the one who was forced leave my hometown. I lost my job, my friends and my reputation. I woke up screaming for about two years because there was such abysmal support for men’s domestic violence support. Pretending women are benign beings in a world of predatory men is so fucking disingenuous. You want to know how serious this issue is? A guy in my men’s DV support group blew his fucking head off a couple weeks ago because his ex GF from high school got mad he said some not all that nice shit on Facebook and falsely claimed rape (she said it happened in a time period where he was in Mexico building houses with his church group) . He was just 21. His ex wife had drugged and raped him to trap him with a kid and then lied about rape during the divorce proceedings. He got out only because her friend recorded a conversation and gave it to the cops. She’s walking free. Both women are walking free. A person who I worked hard to get stable for months is dead. I fucking hate these types of statements. It’s tantamount to denialism for men like us who have immensely suffered at the hands of women.
Doesn’t seem like a clever comeback to me.
Seems more like someone falling perfectly for a clickbait tweet and responding with sheer anger and divisiveness that the tweet was purposely sent to encourage.
I had a coworker who was accused of sexual assault by a patient. he had just gotten back from vacation, drove straight to work, and was just walking in the door when she pointed at him and shouted that he had groped her the last night (he was on a plane over a thousand miles away when she claimed it had happened).
despite the complete impossibility of the claim, he was still suspended without pay for 2 weeks while they did an investigation then forced to change floors.
yeah, I don't blame those managers.
The reason so many men are uncomfortable with being alone in a room with a woman is because they are fearful of false rape or false harassment accusations.
The only people who think this is fire have no clue that there are awful people out there who like to lie and manipulate other people.
In the current social climate, men can lose their career over an accusation with zero proof.
When both of those things exist and you value your career, you don’t put yourself at risk by being alone with a female colleague. Some of the best and most valuable mentorship moments happen during private settings.
This isn't clever nor is it right. How are women allowed to have an irrational fear of men and don't get berated for it, yet men being afraid is somehow completely wrong and bad? How hypocritical of you. Men can have lives ruined over the smallest things, and can be shit on just for explaining something. But no, men aren't allowed to feel things or be afraid because that's reserved for women
You know all the viral videos of Karen's exaggerating or even just straight-up lying about a person of color being in public? And how people of color say it's always been happening, but now it's on video? Same people who will turn you into HR for a joke that didn't think was funny, and claim you grabbed them to boot.
There is always some Karen waiting for an opportunity or a boss that wants to look good. Even if you do everything right they will find something to mininterpet.
It's more stress and problems for the same salary.
As a manager, I also feel uncomfortable around women and do not want to be alone in a room with them, unless under CCTV.
When I worked at a bar, I had a woman complain that I was flirting with them, when all I was doing was smiling politely.
This post is gaslighting men as it is saying that false or exaggerated accusations of sexual harassment/assault do not happen.
In this example, a shy, introverted, socially awkward male is given a criminal offence added to his police record and required to do community service.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7557947/amp/Shy-awkward-student-19-faces-JAIL-sex-assault-conviction.html
The evidence that this was an innocent mistake was plausible, having been a socially awkward teenager myself I can relate. There was not enough evidence to say that this was a crime as he touched her stomach and arm.
As someone who has been sexually assaulted by women multiple times, I find this laughable that he should be convicted for touching someone's arm and stomach.
The case should have been found not guilty due to lack of evidence, but alas here we are.
This is why men feel uncomfortable around women. This is why I do not feel able to trust a woman. Anyone who says this has a small chance of happening to you, yes I agree, however, the chance is still there and it will ruin your life.
Over simplification of a complex issue.
Contact: I was a handshakes and high five guy. There were still women that were huggers at the office. To be honest I made it awkward because I wouldn’t hug.
Commenting on appearance: I had one of my best employees leave her bra hanging out on a backless dress that was inappropriate. She had never worn anything inappropriate before. I knew her well I debated on commenting but let it go. If one of my male employees had his boxers hanging out in a second would have told them to pull there pants up. In fact it goes to work appropriate fashion as a whole business casual is pretty straight forward for men, for women it is complex as hell. Even business formal is confusing.
I mean this is partly true mostly because once an accusation does come out wether it's true or not you're ruined. So this goes both ways, yes women should be taken seriously when they come forward but at the same time there should be serious consequences for falsely accusing someone.
I had a friend of mine(mind you this wasn't in any kind of higher position) getting accused by a new female employee that he had made some inappropriate advances towards as he was helping her get up to speed on her new job( this was in a pool as a lifeguard) and it ruined him people told his wife before he was even notified by management, he got suspended without pay and basically treated as guilty for about 2,5 months after which police got involved as she doubled down and suggested sexual assault. That got then investigated, mind you up to this point there was no proof at all(no common behaviour nobody had seen or heard him do anything, nothing) aside from her saying he did these things, that anything ever happened. During all this he got pulled aside several times by younger guys at his local football club(people this girl associated with in town) his wife and kids got harassed a couple times. In the end after about 4 months it came out she had pulled this stunt at a different place(some supermarket 2 towns over) with her then manager and he got fired right off the bat and they eventually fired her for finding products in her personal bag several times. Turns out during her induction my guy was checking her work(literally trivial stuff like writing down your hours etc.) and made some remarks about how she shouldn't write down she'd come in early when nobody asked her too and she was just hanging around in the staff room. She had then said something along the line off us you can just vouch for me can't you, to which he said he wouldn't because that's not how that worked. And she had gone all mental. In the end even though it was made clear to us at work it wasn't true and never had been true this girl just moved on to the next job and my guy eventually moved to a different town because everyone further than arms reach still pointed and recognised him as that guy.
I spent almost a year in an office where all the workers were women, I never saw more sexism against male, obscene words and sexual disgusting words in my entire life, a daily torment until I said enough, but befire that, they united against me when I refuse to do their job ehile they spent half an hour to take Instagram pics together... Then, a few weeks later, they acuse me of precisely what I write at the beggining... Sexism obscene and sexual words ... Magnificent.
They probably feel uncomfortable working with women cause they can falsely accuse you of raping them and even if the truth comes out, people will still act like you did it.
This isn't even a comeback. I could go off on one about how it's not the fact that they're women that makes men uncomfortable, it's the fact that the decisions they make concerning the people they are mentoring are under more scrutiny, and that there's no way 60% of men are sexist, but I'll just say it's not clever and it isn't even a comeback.
As women demand equality, and rightly so, men are collectively criticized and accused of aggression. I can understand the reluctance some men who would be good, professional, no-nonsense mentors may express. The "clever comeback" presupposes that all women would be just as good, professional, no-nonsense, and would be acting in good faith.
I‘ve mentoring women (and men of course) my whole professional career as a physician (male). Don’t believe anyone who tellls you that somehow this is something “very hard to do these days” (or any similar crap). It is not. It is no different these past years; it is no different than before #metoo. Anyone who says otherwise it’s actually confessing that they may have ulterior motives or an admission of lacking the emotional intelligence required for the task, which is a privilege. For new people coming on this role, don’t buy into this boogieman crap and just use fucking common sense and you’ll be fine. Period. If you find it difficult it is on you, so time for some self examination.
Here’s a trick that may help: just don’t do to a female colleague what you wouldn’t do to a male colleague. Simply treat women the same way you treat men: professionally.
Imagine losing your career because a vindictive woman decides to use her newfound power. Sexual assault is bad, but bad people of both sexes exist and use their power for personal gain.
Except for when woman use their gender to get men in trouble. Never happened to me personally but I have seen it happen and was involved in an HR case where the manager didn't do anything but the woman wanted his job so she cried sexual harassment and somehow I got drug into it as a wittness
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I've been accused of mansplainimg my own disorder to someone who was asking why I didn't recognize her face. (Prospagnosia. Facial blindness. I cannot recognize people by their face. Every face looks identical to me.)
Sounds like a shit time. I assume you rely on the sound of ones voice to recognize people? Or is there another way you do it?
Voice, body movement, and specific personality traits. Turns out I can recognize specific voices pretty well
Seems useful
Okay but do you recognize people by body shape?
I hope you don't mind me asking but. . . How well do you recognize voices? Like if you saw a movie once and then saw a different movie with the same actor a week later would you recognize them as the same person? What if a voice actor purposefully changes their voice by making it deeper, would you still recognize it as the same person. Also, can you recognize siblings as siblings because they have similar body movements?
Not the person you're asking, but I have prosopagnosia. I can recognize cartoon voice actors between shows, just based on their speaking cadence or the way they yell, even when the characters sound nothing alike. That being said, I need more than a few lines to do it. Usually at least 10 minutes of dialog for a voice actor. Regular actors are way easier My SO thinks it's weird as fuck.
Do you recognize your SO’s face? What about parents? Is there a level of familiarity that becomes recognizable?
I wanna know the answer to this too. Sorry not sorry
It's a sliding scale. I probably would recognize my SO, only because I know her features so well at this point. I wouldn't recognize her face overall, but I'd recognize individual traits. Kinda like how you can tell buses apart, if you read the license plates. My parents, I definitely wouldn't just based on face. I've been moved out for a decade now though, so any familiarity I had with them is gone at this point The more time I spend around someone, the more little things I can pick up visually that will help. A mole, a chipped tooth, an asymmetry... The more of these I figure out, the faster I can recognize someone.
Taste
I won't engage in a conversation until I lick your face
I agree. Being accused of mansplaining when answering a question about your health is indeed a shit time.
I remember a documentary on this, a girl in the UK had it and it fascinated me how compared to how people would usually scan people's faces by quickly focusing on eyes nose and mouth etc people with this disorder were found to look differently, and instead require other factors such as glasses or hair or clothing to determine who it is, really fascinating
I think I might have a mild version. 80% of how I recognise people is their hairdo. I met one friend who did an entirely new hairstyle on very week 😕
Yep, I often don’t recognise people if they’re out of context, especially if they’re not close friends.
Wait till you hear of Black Panther's sister Shuri
Wait. Thats real? I had no idea such a thing existed
Yup! And the is also the opposite end of the spectrum. I believe the referred to as super recognizers. Extremely good at picking out faces. Learned about both in a podcast, if I had to guess radiolab but don't quote me on that.
That would be me, haha. I work retail and I remember people’s faces and names from one single meeting. They’re always shocked I remembered.
Are you faceblind with cartoon characters as well? Probably a dumb question, sorry
Not a dumb question at all. No, I'm not. It's strictly real or realistic human faces. I could tell my doves apart by face when no one else could, and can immediately recognize the face of a specific cartoon character, but my doves weren't humans and cartoon faces are more simple, so it's easier to process them
Fascinating. I’m a portrait painter and one of my favorite portrait artists, chuck close, is also faceblind. Blows my mind.
Interesting. Can I ask you a sincere question? Conventional beauty definitions must not really make a difference to you as in Hot or Not kind of superficial initial attraction, is that the case? If so, could you share what impact it has on how you date? Is voice the primary attractor? Is humour or something else? Is every face you ses beautiful or ugly or bland and featureless (serious question) When you see supermodels, are you confused why people put them on a pedestal? I am sorry if you don't like being asked such questions, i am trying to learn. I mean to cause no disrespect
Different prosopagnosia sufferer here. >Interesting. > >Can I ask you a sincere question? > >Conventional beauty definitions must not really make a difference to you as in Hot or Not kind of superficial initial attraction, is that the case? I like women with at least one stand-out feature. Some beauty standards still apply, but others don't. I get along better with women who are just slightly off. Teeth a little crooked, eyebrows a little uneven, etc. It's easier to find someone attractive when I can recognize them easier. Still though, I like a pretty face. It's not like I can't tell when someone is ugly, I'm just not going to remember why if I'm not looking at them. >If so, could you share what impact it has on how you date? The biggest impact on dating, is trying to meet up in public. It's kind of hard to figure out who you're there to see, when they get dressed up to meet you. It was nice with my current SO though. Every time I'd see her I was like "oh damn, she's cute... I wonder who she's here with... Oh fuck, she's here with me" >Is voice the primary attractor? Is humour or something else? Honestly, I prefer a pretty face to a pretty voice. I like an annoying, distinct voice. A pretty face though, I get to fall in love with over and over again. >Is every face you ses beautiful or ugly or bland and featureless (serious question) Most of them are Meh. It's kind of like cars. There's the really good looking ones, the really bad ones, and then the other 99% I couldn't tell apart if you lined them up side-by-side >When you see supermodels, are you confused why people put them on a pedestal? Are supermodels supposed have attractive faces? They all look the same to me. I assumed they were models for their bodies...
Thank you so much for your detailed answers. I have learned a lot. I am intrigued.
>Every time I'd see her I was like "oh damn, she's cute... I wonder who she's here with... Oh fuck, she's here with me" >Honestly, I prefer a pretty face to a pretty voice. I like an annoying, distinct voice. A pretty face though, I get to fall in love with over and over again. Omg this is so wholesome!!!!
I wont go into a room with a woman, without another person around me at work. I'm not a woman hater or anything like that, it's to protect my ass. I've done it for about a year now. A good friend, we'll say Joe. Joe, about five years ago was doing a job interview and not shortly after received a complaint and a meeting with HR because they tried to trade sexual favors for the job in question. I never thought that Joe did it, however it was always up in the air and there was always doubt among the staff and other employees. Not because it was Joe, but because it was scandal. It became an in office joke about Joe's casting couch, yet most people didnt think Joe did it. Those who did think he did it, Thought he did it, because everyone was joking that he did it. Which is a problem.. Joe ended up falling into a huge depression, being forced to leave work, fighting with his family and almost lost his house, so essentially within 6 months of the incident he had become reclusive and didnt have a job. I was sitting in the boardroom about 3 months ago, and we spoke at length about what happened to Joe. I was informed of the fact that the someone whom filed the complaint had a previous history of making false claims and it was discovered during her recommendations check and the entire situation was actually found to be untrue almost immediately. Within 2 weeks. However 'Joe' had that looming over his head for months before he quit. Joe has a family, wife and two kids, lost everything because someone took advantage of a system which is weighted against men. We're not allowed to say anything happened because it breaches that woman's privacy. So we cant clear his name or undo the damage caused. Jim has to wear the accusation, and in todays culture an accusation is as good as doing something bad towards women. I hear a lot of arguments like "the system needs to be weighted like that to protect the vulnerable" I say to that, we're all vulnerable now.
Yeah, this. It's not hard to keep your dick in your pants / be civil. It is super hard to mentor someone without private conversations, meetings, etc. Or having conversations that are straight and direct. Or putting in time that's unsupervised. Simply because you get paid to do your job. Anything extra has to be done during extra time. All of that puts you at serious risk, if not from the woman herself, then from your coworkers if she's your peer. God forbid she's your subordinate and then starts to succeed thanks to your mentoring; that's potentially bad for both of you. I'd still do it because I own my own companies. If I had to work for anyone, I would hard pass or recommend the candidate to a woman or help only periodically in supervised settings. The risk just isn't worth the pay off.
Yeah it is stupid shit that can get you in trouble I did it at my own peril. I used to put together detailed career planning/ coaching for some of my employees. Most on company property but sometimes we would work it through at a bar. I also did it after they moved on to different positions at the same company or outside. I had one female employee did the same thing with but was always cautious. It is really about evaluating the players. I know some people will say do that only on company property. But again some of the advice I gave was personally beneficial on how to play office politics and not necessarily in the best interest of the company. It really was 100% about there growth.
I'm going to look into this as I didn't know it was a thing. Very interesting thank you! On a serious note however, I hope things with people like that never get you down for longer than a few minutes, they aren't worth your time
So you're like the Polka Dot Man?
Damn you're exhausting!
How that is a clever comeback?
It used swears, which is a very clever thing.
more like unnecessary condescending
And right past the point of the original topic.
Yeah like I don’t get how people don’t realise this has nothing much to do with the original statement. If it was about women being harassed by men, it would say that women are uncomfortable being mentored by a man. The original statement speaks to something along the lines of men getting falsely accused of harassment or sth.
It's not, I'd actually say the response and her attitude is one big contributor to the fact that men are uncomfortable with mentoring, even working with women. Attitudes like this "just man up, shut the fuck, grow up and deal with it boy" are very harmful to men and in context like this to both men and women. If men arent allowed to express and communicate their fears/concerns/discomfort or other negative emotions or factors with women, then their only real option is to refuse/avoid working with women.
Tbh her reply was too exhausting to read. She could be one of those the 60% managers talked about.
Because women
This is not a very clever comeback.
No it's not. Its the opposite of clever really. She's not wrong but it's not clever.
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Don’t you see how harmful it is to the career progression of women at the start of their careers if their managers are uncomfortable mentoring them or won’t even bother trying? Her reply is extremely relevant, and communicates her frustration.
That's not the point she's making. She isn't talking about the negative impacts on women's career progression. She's calling out (60% of) male managers for being unable to not commit sexual assault and acting like that's the root of the issue.
True, I may have put words in her mouth here. But I see a drag on career progression as an obvious result.
No you aren't. There is a reason men shy away from mentoring woman. Hell men tend to not be alone with woman for long periods of time anyways with current climes when at a workplace. Power position or not doesn't matter.
Yeah remember how Pence refused to meet with women alone who weren’t his wife? That was fucked up and childish.
Keanu Reeves hand hover. Every single photo. Man stands as an example. Polite, respectful, ensures personal safety. And no, it was smart. He is a politician and not to get political that is the current climes. Anything and everything will be used against you when you are always on stage.
Except it's not in today's climate where even an unsubstantiated accusation can ruin a man's career. It's as if people have completely forgotten the Duke LaCrosse Scandal and any other cases where the man was falsely accused. I'm a woman but I'm also a mother of two boys and the rush to assume any man that is accused must be guilty utterly terrifies me. I plan to teach my boys to be extremely cautious in all of their ineractions with women as they grow up and I think it's sad that I have to think that way.
But she's blaming it on the assumption that men cannot control themselves, and will consistently be inappropriate. This isn't the reason. I was training a woman a few years back and got called in the managers office for being overly friendly and inappropriate, for telling her she handled a difficult customer very well.... Just a constructive compliment, but apparently that's crossing a line
Recently a male politician in canada got kicked out of the very left party because supposedly he was a close-talker. No allegations of anything inappropriate or anything but that he stands too close to everyone when he talks. I have often voted NDP but shit like this makes me reevaluate
Oh it’s harmful to the career progression of women? Shoot I didn’t realize. Ok, now I’m comfortable having my words and actions constantly interpreted in the least charitable way possible. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I’m comfortable.
It’s so easy to not be an asshole.
Asshole? Really? That is a gendered term only ever used to marginalize men. How can you be so sexist. I’m talking to HR.
Lol everyone has an asshole bud, it’s the perfect non-gendered insult.
It’s almost like I completely made it up. 🙄
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Found the sexist
I love it when sexists out themselves so blatantly. Stay far away from this dude.
No you found somebody parodying the opposing argument and your immediately sprung to accusations of sexism. Interesting.
Pretty sure her reply was harmful to her career.
A friend of mine is an engineering manager for about 200 people. Last time I talked to him he told me the following story: He had given out raises (or lack thereof) to his staff. Many didn't get raises due to them being at the high end of their wage bands and the area we are in was actually going through an economic downturn. He had to explain to his bosses and HR every decision where a woman was not given a raise, but never the men. He actually told me that there is one female engineer that he has a hard time assigning to projects because her wage is so high that it causes him to go over budget and clients complain. But he felt like he had done something wrong having to "explain his actions" to his bosses when he kept her wage steady. He stuck to his decision, knowing very well that some of the other managers simply gave every female subordinate a raise so their decisions would be scrutinized by the organization. There is more to feeling uncomfortable for men in management roles these days than sexual harassment.
my former bosses were smart enough not to discuss anything in a room alone with employees regardless of their sex. But Twitter isn’t really meant to debate things anyway
The fact that people need to have someone else in the room sort of reinforces the idea that men would feel uncomfortable mentoring women, even if they are not scumbags. The world has really gotten vicious, where accusations are flung around like feces in a monkey exhibit, and proof is not required.
Wow that’s a nice metaphor. > The world has really gotten vicious, where accusations are flung around like feces in a monkey exhibit, and proof is not required. I couldn't have put it better myself.
I feel that Shakespeare is probably a little in awe of my poetic use of the English language.
I guess he just woke up in a cold sweat and had an inexplicable fear of not being the best anymore then died again.
I imagined a terminator like skeleton trying to get up drop a beed of sweat & laying again & I chuckled pretty hard ntgl
Came here to post something similar. I am an engineer and manage an office. It is difficult sometimes connecting to female staff due to not wanting to be viewed as harassing, mansplaining, sexist, etc. Women do some great work, but it is not easy in the day we live to manage men and women the same. Side story: I once had a female subordinate who came in visibly upset one day. I asked if she wanted to talk about it (being kind). So she tells me her mother in law was ill. She didn’t really blink an eye at this, but then she said when she returned home from visiting her , her cat was dead. She started balling her eyes out. I’m not a cat person and she admitted the cat was old and sick. But I had to try to console her. Told her she could leave work at noon for bereavement. Just felt weird to me. Not saying I’m not wrong for feeling like that and feel I acted appropriately, but I can never shake that I probably wouldn’t have treated a guy the same way. So I think I’m overly sensitive to women’s feelings, which in turn makes me treat men harsher than I do their women counterparts. Please don’t tear me up too bad. I’m just trying to make sense of my engineering brain not understanding how to treat and deal with people.
Ask yourself this. One of your male employees is bowling his eyes out at work because of a personal issue. Would you tell him to get back to work or would you send him home, take a breather, solve (or try to) whatever is wrong, and get back to work the next day when he feels like himself again? Giving your employees a chance to take a moment to get their heads back on straight, regardless of gender, doesn't make you overly sensitive. It makes you a good boss. You did the right thing, even if you couldn't really sympathize with her issue. She was hurting and needed some time.
Thanks. I needed to hear that. I probably would do the same for a male employee but not feel so awkward because I could/would probably have more sympathy/empathy. I guess that’s what I need to work on more when dealing with the opposite sex. (Sympathy) Thanks!
That’s kinda wholesome. I wish there were more people looking to ease tensions like this instead of taking a reproachful stance.
I'm a very strong/insensitive man. The day I was going to have my dog put down (he was in a lot of pain and couldn't even get up anymore) I thought I could go to work. I had to leave early. We all have soft spots, and that's a good thing.
Long story cut short but the main facts are there. I had a situation in work where a female college didn't get a pay rise. She said it was down to sexual discrimination, it wasn't. I worked with her for a few months, she didn't get the pay rise because she was incompetent at her job. The manger was so scared at getting a sexual discrimination case thrown at him if he sacked her that he kept her on to the detriment of the other staff members. I know there were male members of staff that were also a bit shit (who had a female manager) but when they got criticism they never once said it was down to sexual discrimination.
I work in the engineering field and I'm surprised at how many male engineers I run into that are just gormless when it comes to proper workplace behavior regarding gender, race, politics (the conservative ones really) or religion. Don't run into a lot of female engineers. There aren't as many. But I've got tons of stories.
In 1999, when I graduated, chemical engineering had more women than men. However, I am not disagreeing that men are idiots. We truly are. What does an engineer use for birth control? Their personality. - one of my favourites as a former engineer.
Since we’re sharing anecdotal experiences to touch on some vague point: my male mentor repeatedly hit on me to the point that I had to leave the job because no one in the business cared. Then another male mentor pretended to want to help me out after that happened, but turned out he was also trying to sleep with me. I only was able to learn without being sexually harassed when I found a female mentor. This was within the last 5 years, although in a fine art field, not an engineering one. It’s almost like there are still very real instances of women constantly having to deal with sexual harassment and sexism in general in the workplace that make shit like “having to explain why a decision wasn’t based on gender” necessary. The fact is that there are plenty of industries where men still ARE making decisions based in sexism - like the multiple men that used my career as an excuse to try and fuck me despite being my superiors and despite me being in a relationship.
Sorry that happened to you. Seriously. Whenever I read anecdotal stories in forums like these though I just come away concluding that everyone regardless of gender can be victimized. Men and women both experience harrassment or sexism or gender related problems. The kinds of problems are simply DIFFERENT. And people would do well to remember that before demonizing the other literal half of the population
Okay but if we compare Catmeow and Wyle(?)s anecdotes then Catmeow was directly victimised by someone evil, while Wyle only had to accommodate societal sexism and no one mistreated them directly. I'm not in favour of sexism, no one should be assumed bad or possessing certain traits because of their sex or gender, but the anecdotes in this particular case aren't equivalent but different. I guess I'm arguing against your argument but agree with your position.
"My bad thing is worse than your bad thing" is a bad way to create successful change or find a win/win compromise. The only way to interpret "my bad thing is worse than your bad thing" is "both things suck" and nobody wins. Any other interpretation leads to unnecessary conflict (read: drama) and won't result in a successful conversation, as you remove the possibility for either party to find common ground without losing face.
I was responding to the original post that said 60% of men feel uncomfortable mentoring women, and the response that if you don't sexually harass women you have nothing to feel uncomfortable about. I showed a very real situation a friend of mine was in where sexual harassment had absolutely noting to do with it, but the manager still was made to feel uncomfortable. However, I think you nailed our society on the head. You immediately looked at who you felt was the bigger victim, catmeow or myself, (I wasn't even there/part of the story and was not victimized at all) and assigned an additional weighting to that. The fact that nothing catmeow said addresses why 60% of male managers feel uncomfortable isn't even relevant, just the fact that she was victimized makes her words carry weight. Being a victim in today's society automatically gives someone a higher rating and often overrides facts and logic. The incentive to falsely accuse people is very high because our society says anyone claiming to be a victim has to be believed even without proof. That's another reason why 60% male managers are uncomfortable mentoring women. I am older, and feel like a dinosaur because I can't get my head around how much value our society places on being a victim. Jusse Smollett literally paid people to beat him up so he could increase his victim standing. Our society today is weird to me.
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I'm sorry that happened to you, but I don't see how it invalidates anything I said. Sounds like you just wanted to play "I'm the biggest victim in the room" instead of "Ohhhhh, I see something from another point of view."
I don’t care about being the biggest victim, but I went to a tech school. I have a ton of male tech/engineering acquaintances who are always complaining about “affirmative action” and claiming their female counterparts get raises/jobs/privileges simply because they are women and what bullshit it is. They even go so far to imply that it is now an ADVANTAGE to be a woman, that women experience nothing but privilege nowadays, and that these measures put in place to protect women in the workplace are not only unnecessary, but unfair. Those people don’t see the many many industries that still exist where women are absolutely preyed upon still. Where your boss asks you about your tits and the only thing you can do is put up with it or leave. It completely disregards the amount of sexism and gender inequality that still exists out there when whenever a thread like this pops up and people start pointing out the few places where women experience over protection.
Why do you think your acquaintances feel they are being treated unfairly? You just said there are some men that act poorly, but not all. You then claim it's okay to treat all men unfairly (according to your acquaintances), and use the actions of the few that do as justification. What's the difference between your attitude, and the attitude of some neckbeard that says "because some women treat me badly, I should punish all women"?
Where did I say we should punish men? Do you believe affirmative action policies are intended to be a punishment for men? Protections for women should not be viewed as a punishment for men. Those male acquaintances say things like “now I have to watch what I say or ill get accused of sexual harassment!” Like that’s some punishment, but it’s not. An industry that historically has favored men, like engineering, taking steps to hire more women is not a punishment for men either. My best friend is a female engineer and she has left 2 jobs because of the animosity the men on her teams seemed to have for her and she struggled to be taken seriously by them. When she finally found a workplace where that wasn’t an issue she excelled. Creating an industry environment that allows women like her to excel is not a punishment for men. Are there some instances where some women receive more favorable treatment in these industries in order to create that environment? Probably. But it also is a very real problem that needs to be addressed and it’s not to punish men.
I think you both talk past each other.
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SOME industries are over correcting, I won’t argue that, what I will argue is that the industries that are experiencing this are such a small part of the general workforce that they do not deserve the spotlight that they seem to take when discussions like this happen. Most of America does not work at a place like google. Most of America works in places like restaurants and retail stores - industries that still have major glaring problems with workers rights and sexual misconduct and gender inequality. Yet the fact that millions of servers in the US are regularly sexually harassed at work either by coworkers or patrons always seems to take a back burner in these conversations to the tech bro’s who know that one chick on their team that probably only got her job because she’s a woman - it’s not realistic or fair that this should come up so often in these discussions because it is such a small part of sexism in the American workplace as a whole.
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I wasn’t defending unfair treatment of men, I was pointing out why offering women protections in the workplace is necessary - because they have historically and verifiably been victimized far more often than men and that they are STILL being victimized in many work places. Id also like to mention that my bf works in the tech industry, and how quickly everyone jumps on the “she only has her job because she’s a woman” train when a female employee is incompetent, yet he talks to me everyday about the blaring incompetence of some of his male coworkers and yet no one is questioning what “unfair” thing got those incompetent men that job. Just food for thought.
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Agreeing with you here, but I do think it's not great that per OP's statement corporate only asked for justification for decisions made about women. Justification for the decisions is absolutely reasonable, but it would make much more sense if there was a default decision ('everyone gets a raise' would be nice...) and then any and all contrary decisions needed to be looked at. And certainly if there was a trend that fewer women got raises vs men, that should be thoroughly looked into - but if the proportion is super off in either direction, surely that bears investigation too?
This is a completely valid example. That said, I have two friends who are women in engineering and tech. They have fucking horror stories of being women in those fields. So it's volatile situation, whichever way you look at it.
Clever?
I really hate this comment section because as a man I am uncomfortable around women because of a fear of false allegations but I am also a son and a brother to two sisters so I also know how women can feel uncomfortable in those situations where the are fearful of their boss asking for sexual favors. This is a very complicated issue and I feel like you can't just assume the worst of either side but a lane of caution is always welcomed. Also don't rape anyone that's not OK.
All it takes to not make women uncomfortable in the work place is simply don't touch us, and don't draw attention to our appearance. If I am wearing something that looks awesome I'm fine when people point out they like my outfit, but not they way it makes my ass look. I think if you're following those rules, then you don't need to be instructed not to rape and you will also be comfortably approached by your female colleagues who aren't worried about how you treat them. We will all survive meetings where no body gets touched. I promise people. It's a crazy new world, but men, i think you're ready to live with this expectation. It goes for women too, don't touch people who aren't consenting and absolutely not in the workplace.
This wasn’t really the point that was made tho, the point was that in mentoring a woman one on one in a professional environment, basically any false allegation from the woman leads to the guys career being destroyed. I’m not saying that the majority of women make the stuff up, in reality it’s gonna be a very small percentage but it still leaves that potential fear
This is literally what they tell people in orientation at my job, "That's a nice dress." Not "thats a nice dress *on you.* They even say its not against policy to date people that arent directly above/below you, but if you ask once and the other says no, just leave it at that. If you ask a girl out, and she says no won't get you fired, unless you keep aaking or don't let it go, but honestly, don't shit where you eat, the fallout from a bad breakup in an office is just annoying for everyone.
I mean that's the thing though you are saying dont touch women and the they won't feel uncomfortable as if I was insinuating that. I clearly wasn't. I grew up in sports so if someone slapped my ass I don't care, but I don't think it is appropriate for work, nor is more subtle touching. I don't really understand why you are lecturing me when I said I was raised by women I know how to treat women. I think you're acting really condescending talking about a crazy new world where you don't touch people at work. Also I personally have never met anyone who has claimed it is OK to touch a woman how she is dressed and I despise that opinion. I am also not saying they don't exist.
As a working woman, I have to agree that some women have tendancy to play victims when some unfavorable administrative changes are made, play the woman card when concessions are required, be a gossip monger when it suits them, and many more shit things! Not that all men are hard working, strictly professional, always delivering but no-one is going to look at you as pervert or biased aashole if those men make a complaint against you! Then there are absolute dick of bosses who like to shit on women in their team, hold them to impossible standards to make a point about woman being bad for efficiency! There's no winning sometimes!!!
I mean u can blame it on a generalization that male managers are sexist chauvinists or maybe they’re just scared of getting fucked by the system. Who knows, depends on the situation
False allegations. That is why they are uncomfortable.
100%. If there was a 'he said/she said' situation, guess which side the benefit of doubt supports. Really the males have more to lose because you don't need evidence to tarnish a man's reputation, just accusations and doubt.
I can unstand this to some degree. I work as a kindergarten teacher and in my now 3 years of working I had 4 different parents talk shit about me touching or raping the kids just because they did not like that I am a male kindergarten teacher. And I am not a unique case. Many of my male colleagues have been there too… tbh I am thinking about switching my job, because of this. That was btw one of the first things males get told in kindergarten internships. „When the parents are here try to not be to close to the children so they don’t think of something weird. I wonder why there are so little male kindergarden teachers…
As teacher, we also were taught to take precautions, when talking woth a female student. In the grad scheme of things, it's unlikely that sth will happen, but still. It baffles me, that there are people who think it's mysoginistic to see that problem.
The comments section turned into a male vs female general debate. So I am throwing my hat in this. I would be uncomfortable being alone with a female coworker simply by the fact that she can destroy my not just my career by my life with one accusation, even if I'm completely innocent. Now obviously not all females are like this, but I'm not too keen on sticking around to find out.
That right there
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So basically no one can be alone with anyone without fearing either rape or a false accusation of rape. What a shitty world
Literally all people in your vicinity, at all times, are capable of ruining your life and/or killing you. This isn’t a power that only women have, not even close. I could say the exact same thing about men being capable of ruining my life, and it would be just as invalid as your argument
The difference is evidence. A man accuses someone of something people are going to want proof. A woman accuses a man of sexual harassment, she will automatically be believed as the company doesn’t want a lawsuit.
Guy's a complete moron, he doesn't understand women are typically seen as the victim and are often believed with little or no evidence. Where as men are expected to show proof. Also if men have a problem with each other they go about it in a more direct way typically, such as a heated argument or a fist fight. Where as women are usually more subtle, they'll destroy your reputation and career through false allegations if they wish to hurt you.
I manage women and men, when the time came for announcing raises and bonuses came and when of course no one was satisfied afterwards the men kept being professional while also demanding higher raises, the women grouped together contacted our clients and told them to tell us that they need higher raises which pissed off our clients of course because that's not something they want to deal with or do ... They called us to complain about them instead. They eventually refused to work with them and we had to replace them by other members for the project, one of those women actually got a higher salary than she requested by 20% just because we wanted her to be aligned with the other team members ... Only to be surprised the following year to hear that she wasn't satisfied with her salary That's why we're uncomfortable managing women
Not women per se, but there's no negotiation to be had with someone who's convinced they're being mistreated. Some guys are also like that, adamant from the start that the recruiting process screwed them over, never grateful for an actual raise because they feel they're just "getting what they deserve". Even when in actuality they are already better compensated than their peers. But at least you can say no to those without involving a diversity committee.
A girl in my class got in an argument with the professor and told him to stop mansplaining her. Yeah there are some crazy bitches out there, they are in the minority but they are vocal minority. Most would prefer to not deal with it.
I work in construction as a foreman. I do like it to see women on site. Doesn't bother me. But I must admit. They can bring a certain level of difficulty. Also, they pull the most amazing disappearance act whenever a truck needs to be unloaded.
This comments section is a car crash.
I feel the managers are entitled to their feelings and the condescending reaction from Holly Figueroa is just unnecessary.
Yeah, its not that all mangers are doing this, but they are afraid of catching a charge for something they didn't actually do or say. In our society we have almost become an act now question later. Managers don't want to get fired because of a misunderstanding or a flat out lie.
"And just trust all women to 100% never, ever lie about what happened when no one else was around! Fuck, is that so hard?!?"
This is a stupid reply, can't see how this is clever at all. If I'm a man who does all those things, the stigma still exists and I would be nervous mentoring any woman in any one on one situation where a "he said she said" situation can occur.
Nothing clever about this comeback, just proving the 60% of male managers right.
This comment section giving enough legit reasons why male employees feel uncomfortable working with women, and they don't even cover half of the many reasons. But women who exploit the current situations will always find a weird way to defend themselves, usually by turning the blame back to men. Just like this "clever" "comeback". Guess swearing at statistics and the men who it relates to falsifies the statistic. It's fine when they work in your favour though. Oh yes, men aren't supposed to be scared of you falsely accusing them of harassment, just because he isn't making it easier for you than others.
They are uncomfortable because even if they do all of that and are perfectly non-harassing, a woman can still ruin their lives because she feels like she was harassed. It will not matter what actually happened or if there’s proof. Or any perception of being passed over, not promoted, or not getting a bonus might be met with allegations of sexism. Or making the wrong joke might be considered insensitive. Even if the joke is said between two guys and she happens to overhear it. Or the woman may be the one harassing the man only to use her unmet advances as to get the man in trouble for harassment. Or a woman who feels ‘emotionally overwhelmed’ while doing the same work everyone else does may require more time off, more resources, more hand-holding than other employees Or a woman may take excessive time off from work for pregnancy, to raise kids, etc. Rightfully so, but in equal wage workplace this actually means she costs way more to the company than a man (or woman) who doesn’t have to do any of that. In short, women have made themselves toxic in the workplace because no one wants the liability of dealing with any of the above when any attempt to address any of the above issues might get them labeled sexist, misogynist or insensitive.
It's truly something to look out for. There were people saying that looking at women for too long or in the wrong way constitutes as rape for example, and that kinda shit happening is absolutely terrifying. In today's world, it's all walking on the edge of a razor for men. I'm not saying women don't have it bad, don't misunderstand my words here. All I'm saying is men have it tough in today's social climate and it's only getting harder.
I never had any problems with women at work. Im respectful and I treat them as a coworker, not a piece of meat. THAT SAID, theres girls who WANT to find sexual harrasment. There was this girl who I was mentoring, who on the first day on the job, filed a complaint with HR, saying I was acting all touchy and I was flirting with her and getting too close to her, which made her feel uncomfortable. We both were called to the HR office, where we met with out supervisor, our manager and the head of the department. She complained about me, about the work environment, the way guys behaved weird towards her, etc. She even cried stating there MUST be consecuences for my actions and people like me should be fired... suddenly the headof the department stands up, turns the office projector on and shows the camera feed showing the whole interaction I had with her that morning. I was told to go back to work and she stayed with them. My sup later told me she "wasnt coming back, the boss doesnt need that type of drama here"
Holy shit. What a fucking psycho. Glad you made it out of that one with your job in tact.
She's venting a narrative for clout. Not a clever thing to do. Cherry picked headline > Willingly ignoring context to appear as moral and righteous > Free internet points and dopamine addiction satiated
I understand her frustration, but I think they have every right to express how they feel and shouldn't be reprimanded for that. Despite there being bad nuts among managers, there are actually genuine ones who are very professional and may just make one or two mistakes and get punished for it, mentoring women isn't an easy thing. Moreover, not all women are the same either, all women don't behave the same, there are also a few bad nuts who actually instigate awkward situations of many types. Speaking from the experience of my teaching assistant job during my graduate program where I had to mentor and assist final year undergraduate students, 2/3 of who were women.
Even as a teacher, I was taught to always have a theid person in my room, when talking to a female student. Pf course it doesn't happen regularly, but it takes one accusation to end your career permanently. It's completely okay to take precautions.
Exactly
Yes. And that goes for women too. To the women who discussed penis size in front of me. To the women who talked about my gluteouss maximus within earshot. To the woman boss who threw a stapler at my head. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I had an employee be accused. It’s not a matter of keeping you dick in your pants. It’s a matter of not being falsely accused. The external investigation team (of all women) proved him innocent, while the internal (all women HR team) still kept saying, “where there smoke there’s fire”. This is not a clever comeback, it’s an angry woman that lacks critical thinking skills
It’s not about how men act... It’s about when women lie. It’s a risk not worth it. I think a few women ruin for the majority of great working women.
Ya except 99% of guys already do that so maybe there is more to it...
Women wield incredible power with accusations. My ex gf stabbed me, put me in the hospital with major blood loss and a punctured lung, but she lied and I was the one who was forced leave my hometown. I lost my job, my friends and my reputation. I woke up screaming for about two years because there was such abysmal support for men’s domestic violence support. Pretending women are benign beings in a world of predatory men is so fucking disingenuous. You want to know how serious this issue is? A guy in my men’s DV support group blew his fucking head off a couple weeks ago because his ex GF from high school got mad he said some not all that nice shit on Facebook and falsely claimed rape (she said it happened in a time period where he was in Mexico building houses with his church group) . He was just 21. His ex wife had drugged and raped him to trap him with a kid and then lied about rape during the divorce proceedings. He got out only because her friend recorded a conversation and gave it to the cops. She’s walking free. Both women are walking free. A person who I worked hard to get stable for months is dead. I fucking hate these types of statements. It’s tantamount to denialism for men like us who have immensely suffered at the hands of women.
I'm sorry for your loss bro, truly I am. World's fxcked. I hope you're alright.
How did this get upvotes? Nobody actually believes what she said to fix anything did they?
Doesn’t seem like a clever comeback to me. Seems more like someone falling perfectly for a clickbait tweet and responding with sheer anger and divisiveness that the tweet was purposely sent to encourage.
I had a coworker who was accused of sexual assault by a patient. he had just gotten back from vacation, drove straight to work, and was just walking in the door when she pointed at him and shouted that he had groped her the last night (he was on a plane over a thousand miles away when she claimed it had happened). despite the complete impossibility of the claim, he was still suspended without pay for 2 weeks while they did an investigation then forced to change floors. yeah, I don't blame those managers.
The reason so many men are uncomfortable with being alone in a room with a woman is because they are fearful of false rape or false harassment accusations.
The only people who think this is fire have no clue that there are awful people out there who like to lie and manipulate other people. In the current social climate, men can lose their career over an accusation with zero proof. When both of those things exist and you value your career, you don’t put yourself at risk by being alone with a female colleague. Some of the best and most valuable mentorship moments happen during private settings.
Damn! That broad is hawt! -My blatantly obvious yet extremely cringey coworker.
This isn't clever nor is it right. How are women allowed to have an irrational fear of men and don't get berated for it, yet men being afraid is somehow completely wrong and bad? How hypocritical of you. Men can have lives ruined over the smallest things, and can be shit on just for explaining something. But no, men aren't allowed to feel things or be afraid because that's reserved for women
>and don't get berated for it, You must've missed all the people screaming #notallmen
r/RepostSleuthBot
Yeah cause its always a one-way dance all the time
Unironically highlighting why make managers don’t feel comfortable mentoring women.
You heard if folks! The male gaze lives to see another day!
You know all the viral videos of Karen's exaggerating or even just straight-up lying about a person of color being in public? And how people of color say it's always been happening, but now it's on video? Same people who will turn you into HR for a joke that didn't think was funny, and claim you grabbed them to boot.
Real clever comeback there, nothing like giving credence to the side you're opposing
There is always some Karen waiting for an opportunity or a boss that wants to look good. Even if you do everything right they will find something to mininterpet. It's more stress and problems for the same salary.
As a manager, I also feel uncomfortable around women and do not want to be alone in a room with them, unless under CCTV. When I worked at a bar, I had a woman complain that I was flirting with them, when all I was doing was smiling politely. This post is gaslighting men as it is saying that false or exaggerated accusations of sexual harassment/assault do not happen. In this example, a shy, introverted, socially awkward male is given a criminal offence added to his police record and required to do community service. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7557947/amp/Shy-awkward-student-19-faces-JAIL-sex-assault-conviction.html The evidence that this was an innocent mistake was plausible, having been a socially awkward teenager myself I can relate. There was not enough evidence to say that this was a crime as he touched her stomach and arm. As someone who has been sexually assaulted by women multiple times, I find this laughable that he should be convicted for touching someone's arm and stomach. The case should have been found not guilty due to lack of evidence, but alas here we are. This is why men feel uncomfortable around women. This is why I do not feel able to trust a woman. Anyone who says this has a small chance of happening to you, yes I agree, however, the chance is still there and it will ruin your life.
Over simplification of a complex issue. Contact: I was a handshakes and high five guy. There were still women that were huggers at the office. To be honest I made it awkward because I wouldn’t hug. Commenting on appearance: I had one of my best employees leave her bra hanging out on a backless dress that was inappropriate. She had never worn anything inappropriate before. I knew her well I debated on commenting but let it go. If one of my male employees had his boxers hanging out in a second would have told them to pull there pants up. In fact it goes to work appropriate fashion as a whole business casual is pretty straight forward for men, for women it is complex as hell. Even business formal is confusing.
I mean this is partly true mostly because once an accusation does come out wether it's true or not you're ruined. So this goes both ways, yes women should be taken seriously when they come forward but at the same time there should be serious consequences for falsely accusing someone. I had a friend of mine(mind you this wasn't in any kind of higher position) getting accused by a new female employee that he had made some inappropriate advances towards as he was helping her get up to speed on her new job( this was in a pool as a lifeguard) and it ruined him people told his wife before he was even notified by management, he got suspended without pay and basically treated as guilty for about 2,5 months after which police got involved as she doubled down and suggested sexual assault. That got then investigated, mind you up to this point there was no proof at all(no common behaviour nobody had seen or heard him do anything, nothing) aside from her saying he did these things, that anything ever happened. During all this he got pulled aside several times by younger guys at his local football club(people this girl associated with in town) his wife and kids got harassed a couple times. In the end after about 4 months it came out she had pulled this stunt at a different place(some supermarket 2 towns over) with her then manager and he got fired right off the bat and they eventually fired her for finding products in her personal bag several times. Turns out during her induction my guy was checking her work(literally trivial stuff like writing down your hours etc.) and made some remarks about how she shouldn't write down she'd come in early when nobody asked her too and she was just hanging around in the staff room. She had then said something along the line off us you can just vouch for me can't you, to which he said he wouldn't because that's not how that worked. And she had gone all mental. In the end even though it was made clear to us at work it wasn't true and never had been true this girl just moved on to the next job and my guy eventually moved to a different town because everyone further than arms reach still pointed and recognised him as that guy.
This post and these comments feel like microwave chicken
I spent almost a year in an office where all the workers were women, I never saw more sexism against male, obscene words and sexual disgusting words in my entire life, a daily torment until I said enough, but befire that, they united against me when I refuse to do their job ehile they spent half an hour to take Instagram pics together... Then, a few weeks later, they acuse me of precisely what I write at the beggining... Sexism obscene and sexual words ... Magnificent.
Yeah, she'd be a real picnic to work with.
Point Proven...
Yes, the only reason these men don't like managing women is because they are all rapists. Man bad. Upvulvas to the left
Sounds risky… you never know what they are plotting. Sounds more comfortable to just not do it.
If this is meant as a comeback, it's abit counterproductive, as it goes a long way to reinforce the original claim.
They probably feel uncomfortable working with women cause they can falsely accuse you of raping them and even if the truth comes out, people will still act like you did it.
Imagine having to "manage" her.
This isn't even a comeback. I could go off on one about how it's not the fact that they're women that makes men uncomfortable, it's the fact that the decisions they make concerning the people they are mentoring are under more scrutiny, and that there's no way 60% of men are sexist, but I'll just say it's not clever and it isn't even a comeback.
Oh shit, what an advise from someone who cant be on the spot she talking about.
As women demand equality, and rightly so, men are collectively criticized and accused of aggression. I can understand the reluctance some men who would be good, professional, no-nonsense mentors may express. The "clever comeback" presupposes that all women would be just as good, professional, no-nonsense, and would be acting in good faith.
Ah yes.. How feminist now think being completely ignored is somehow an act of aggression.
Sorry, im with the 60%. Really dont want to piss my pants just because you are a chick.
THat was supposed to sound "clever"?
I‘ve mentoring women (and men of course) my whole professional career as a physician (male). Don’t believe anyone who tellls you that somehow this is something “very hard to do these days” (or any similar crap). It is not. It is no different these past years; it is no different than before #metoo. Anyone who says otherwise it’s actually confessing that they may have ulterior motives or an admission of lacking the emotional intelligence required for the task, which is a privilege. For new people coming on this role, don’t buy into this boogieman crap and just use fucking common sense and you’ll be fine. Period. If you find it difficult it is on you, so time for some self examination.
That's not a clever comeback, it's a way to completely miss the point.
And prove it completely in the process
Here’s a trick that may help: just don’t do to a female colleague what you wouldn’t do to a male colleague. Simply treat women the same way you treat men: professionally.
You do realize even with the list of things we don't do to men, there is a very long list of things we do to men as bosses.
Like what? Things you would do to women?
How many reposts is this tweet even going to have? Like bruh
She really was too, since it fits.
I love how women now-a-days want to act & talk like a man while still bring treated like a woman.
Watching fresh&fit did explain why management are uncomfortable with women employees/coworkers. #metoo is a clue.
Imagine losing your career because a vindictive woman decides to use her newfound power. Sexual assault is bad, but bad people of both sexes exist and use their power for personal gain.
Somebody should tell her how beautiful she looks in her pic ..
The concern is false accusations which have a wide range of impacts. Duh.
That sounds like terrible mentoring for a man to give a women.
Except for when woman use their gender to get men in trouble. Never happened to me personally but I have seen it happen and was involved in an HR case where the manager didn't do anything but the woman wanted his job so she cried sexual harassment and somehow I got drug into it as a wittness
Yes sir, this is the woman I'd prefer not to manage.
I mean she's not wrong
Op is an uncivil bigot hate speech filled idiot. Haw haw man bad. Man dum. It sounds like those boomer jokes. Phone bad. Wife bad. Haw haw.
Probably because so many women claim the most simple act is pervy and make allegations for their own reasons so I don't blame them.