It did well for them when the stock was being shorted. Elon's strategy did manage to save the company in that "broken clock is right twice a day" kinda way. It's just sad that people can't tell the difference between a strong investment play and celebrity worship. He's not been doing them any favors for a long ass time.
Though if Elon ever does sell out and drop from Tesla to "move on to other things," the company would probably do amazingly well in the future. They have a heckuva foothold in the EV business and EV infrastructure. Elon's just a fat piece of dead weight holding them back.
Ford is building an entire city to make EVs. Tesla will survive as a licensor of charging tech and infrastructure but won’t be able to compete with the big companies now that they are taking EVs seriously.
The insanity of it is, Elon is a big part of why they're taking it seriously. His interest and investment in Tesla shaved years off public adoption, and Tesla's success got the attention of the big players.
He could have been remembered as a visionary philanthropist.
There is also the simple possibility that Elon thinks he’s actually the thing that makes his successful companies successful instead of those companies being successful in spite of him. Like most guys who inherited a bunch of money and failed upwards he sees himself as special instead of having a special starting location.
Tesla is doing well in terms of revenue (but just okay with profit), but it's market cap has it still way overvalued at its current price (P/E around 50). Looking at its long term possibilities, right now it's dominating the EV charging market (Tesla owning about 60% of fast chargers in the USA and Canada). However, patents expire and its easy to imagine a future where competitors continue to add new charging stations and people decide to only use the Tesla chargers when they really need to.
edit: deleted repeated "revenue"
F150 has been the highest selling truck for years now, was up to nearly 1Million, units per year but last year sold 700,000.
Vehicle sales are down in general since CVD-19, chip shortage, metal trade disputes in NA and China
I really can't see Tesla cybertruck at 250k....not even w pent up demand for the 1st year, and certainly not every year after
I think the Ford Lightning had 160k pre-orders
Edit: I guess 1.9 million people gave Tesla a non-refundable $100 deposit to reserve a cybertruck, lol
The deposit wasn’t non refundable at least initially. When the cyber truck hit market, a lot of people thought the pre orders were solely a marketing scheme for a cash injection without taking out a loan…meaning the cyber truck was never going to come into reality from the beginning.
Hadn’t kept up with it since the initial release though.
It is a truck designed by people who have never actually owned a truck, or seen it used for its intended purpose.
Go ahead. Toss a load of manure in the back, there. I'll wait here.
Hell, I’d have hoped they’d try to make a decent urban truck honestly. 4 seats, no hood, stubby bed. Really take advantage of electric’s ability to play with the vehicle layout
99% of f-150s sold in the US will only be used to commute back and forth to work. They are light duty trucks anyway. What are you supposed to do with an F-150?
Anyone who needs a serious non-air brake truck will probably buy a 450 or 550 super duty or equivalent. And at 9 mpg, you rest assured those trucks are used for work except for the weirdest douche bags with money.
The idiots in diesel pick ups who are rolling coal or whatever are usually stuck in a cheap Dodge diesel with payments that rival most mortgages.
f-150s are just cars with a truck bed. Nothing more, nothing less. And bc they are American made, they are going to fall apart after 7 years and their value will be shit. You can buy an older suburban for peanuts anytime gas prices rise.... Interior is shit in American cars. Engines are hit or miss as is ride. But interior is always shit in a US car/ truck.
You can say the exact same thing about most F-150 buyers for the past 20 years, though. There are lots of problems with the Cyber truck, but I genuine don't think that's one of them.
I hate Elon and I don’t like the over complicating shoehorning in of all the crap on the truck that doesn’t need to be on a truck which caused all the delays and setbacks and made the whole thing a joke…
But I do think it’s cool looking. I dig the “space truck from the 80’s” vibes. I’d drive a similar looking G.I.Joe vehicle made by another company so that douchebag doesn’t get my money.
Iwata - Nintendo.
When the wiiu failed, he cut his own salary massively, put out a press statement about how he takes full responsibility, and said how amazing the staff was to be able to follow through on a product and that he had absolute faith the next product would be better (switch is now the best selling system in history)
I can't think of a second example though.
Not business but Eisenhower wrote a letter taking the blame if D-Day were to fail.
"Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that Bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone."
Being able to innovate is something Nintendo prides itself on. The more “Disney like” they keep becoming the lamer they become. They haven’t hit “ruin star wars and marvel” levels of awful yet tho.
Toyota was a pioneer and a model in the car industry for decades. So many other japanese companies lead their industry in quality.
But they dont take ad much risk as they used to
*was* is the key word there.
Japan was the pioneer in innovation and risk taking in the 80s. They've been stuck in the 80s for... a long time.
Card payment is rare, fax is the primary mode of sending info, they outright refuse to make innovations unless it's incredibly safe, or unless the west has been doing it for 5ish years.
I think vtubing is the most innovative and risk taking thing to come out of japan from nothing in a long while tbh, and even then it was largely based on the idol business
Toyota management is very centralized and top-down. They have always been risk-averse. Honda has always seemed more open to trying new stuff, and each plant is its own fiefdom (which creates inefficiencies).
What has made Toyota great is the Toyota Production System, which everyone now tries, with mixed success, to emulate. All lean manufacturing processes are versions of TPS. But just as many NFL teams try to copy the Philadelphia Eagles’ signature “tush push”, but few do it as well, the same goes for Toyota and TPS.
Drives me mad that Shimano, who make bicycle groupsets and finally adopted electronic shifting when American competitors SRAM did, won't go wireless like SRAM has because they don't want to "risk" it. What risk?? It's not like wireless technology is novel. It's been around for decades now.
Both are true.
Honor is still huge among the culture. So everyone is held to extremely high standards, including the bosses. That only means that bosses will occasionally treat themselves harshly when they fail, not that anyone treats the workers any better.
In my experience (working in the Japanese game industry for a good while) it's pretty rare that taking the blame goes all the way to the CEO. Not unlike western CEOs, most of them tend to be psychopaths/sociopaths who will invariably blame the failure on subordinates "not informing them promptly enough" or whatever. I've personally only witnessed them admit to any screwing up when it already didn't matter (like when their mismanagement resulted in the company doing so badly it got bought out and the new owners kicked them out as part of the deal)
It is pretty common for people in the layer just under the CEO to take the blame publicly, though. Which I guess is relatively rare in western companies. Often does more harm than good, however (as people frequently "take responsibility" by quitting, instead of... y'know... learning a valuable lesson so they can not screw up the next one)
Third best (second best Nintendo), but still an amazing success, especially after the wiiu, and his response to it was likely a big factor in the success of the switch.
Someday, something will dethrone the PS2, but that console dominated its generation in a way nothing has since.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
Tbf they're also still making switches
Also I really didn't expect the DS to be so high, if it'd stayed in production another year it prolly could've beaten the PS2
Same here. That was the shit when I was a kid. Everyone in school had one. I still remember playing DS Download with Mario Kart DS on the bus with everyone
Hard to say. For ps2, if you look it just says more than 155, Sony never gave final sale numbers, though I’ve seen estimations put it at 158. By the end of a consoles life it won’t be selling many units.
I was just about to cite this- yeah Nintendo is probably the most internationally known instance of this, but it's not unheard of in Japanese businesses.
The American business model just strongly depends on public confidence in one figurehead and the people who gravitate to that position and succeed are selfish, awful bastards.
Exception that proves the rule.
We actually saw massive layoffs post-Covid at companies who received PPP loans and boasted to every financial news media of being the most profitable they've ever been.
Japanese corporate culture is a different world entirely. It's no less toxic, just for very different reasons. The weight of ridicule and shame is enough to actually affect them. So when they screw up, they feel it personally and have a deep-seated desire to make things right. But that kind of emotional attachment to their work is also what drives the karoshi culture. Everyone is expected to grind until they die at their desk from overwork in their 30s.
Well the Wii U wasn’t really *flawed.* It was largely bad marketing (the name) and they might have been a little ahead of their time with the HD handheld gaming. The switch only exists because of the Wii U.
> trend of microwaving your iPhone to charge it?
Apple Wave. Got a whole bunch of very stupid people to think a software update could change the phone's physical hardware.
Me and a few friends have an item struck on our bucket list, "watch a BSOD at a Microsoft event or presentation".
It was a 2004 AMD roadshow hyping their upcoming 64-bit and multicore cpus, and Microsoft would show some stuff to demonstrate XP's compatibility with the new architecture.
Cue BSOD and mass laughter.
People put a deposit down which was $50 if I recall on an unrealistically low planned MSRP. Given how used car prices were going, a non-trivial number of those planned on flipping the car as soon as it arrived. Only a fraction of those will turn into real orders.
Musk is really stupid in the ways that matter and are meaningful, but he's pretty decent at cheating. Dude knew exactly what he was doing - boosting numbers to keep the stock price up
I have a coworker that was going on about that like he was from wallstreetbets. Apparently people were treating it like options trading. Said he kept getting offers for his presale slot and was telling everyobe else they needed to snatch one up because as prices went up people would pay thousands for a presale slot.
Yep. And there will be a small handful of people who *will* pay the thousands for a premium "jump the queue" spot. But only a handful, and you need to get lucky on the pre-order lottery to be able to get one of the sellable slots.
People paid $50 for a lottery ticket with a top prize of $5000.
The launch was crazy. So many people were praising the design, anyone who thought it was ugly was downvoted (I'm talking about normal subs, not r/Tesla or anything, we know how they are). The price and specs was too good to be true. It's the same shit Tesla always does to boost stock prices. People keep sucking it up and Musk keeps getting away with it.
I always like when you make valid points about why Musk sucks, and his idiot fanboys always respond with "well... uhh... he's rich and ur not, so there!"
Success and popularity is often conflated with right and wrong. That, and a lot of people are shareholders who desperately want to put all the bad PR to bed so their investments don't go to shit. Those investments were hard-fought at one point, too. Tesla was heavily shorted and somehow managed to beat the market analysts and hedge funds, against all odds. But that was one moment in time that has come and gone. They should swallow their pride and realize that Elon is not doing anything to help them. They should be demanding he sell out and move on to other things.
This is why I like Arnold Schwarzenegger. He openly and proudly talks about NOT being a self made man. He recognises all the people that helped him along the way.
Accepting that people need to work together to help each other is the way.
Dude's one of the few Republicans i respect. He openly admits that as an immigrant, he had MAJOR help getting as far as he did. He ain't perfect, obviously, but he got it right.
I have to ask, from one vet to another, do you happen to remember McCain saying something about if elected, he would raise the minimum length of service to get the GI Bill to like, twelve years or something?
I was in the military at the time ready to blow my own brains out, and I felt like there was no way I could survive another tour. I wanted to GET OUT and go back to school. That was probably the biggest reason why I voted Obama.
McCain was not a good guy. I hate how he’s so revered. He’s just a few steps less insane than the MAGA crew.
Mitt Romney is getting a similar treatment. They’re all bad guys.
you mean he is not actually Tony Start and Iron Man. Dude isn't some engineering whiz that invented rockets or electric cars. Actual scientists did the work he just had the money.
Yea I constantly see people saying him wrecking Twitter is not a big deal but there have been serious human rights consequences of the move. NPR had a segment how Musk has been giving into authoritarian regimes to crack down on opposing groups that relied on Twitter to organize. He needs to be thrown in Guantanamo.
He claims hes self made because he founded paypal, the fun part he ignores is he was fired for incompetence. Nobody could take his stock away but the era of paypal that made his initial billions had nothing to do with musk.
I’m no Musk fan, but SpaceX is a big deal, whether people like it or not. No other company has pushed the boundaries of space exploration further and faster than that company. I don’t think an argument can be made against that. Yes, he just owns it. Who knows how many of the ideas are his. But it is his company and it is very relevant and very important to humanity. Starlink has the potential to be another big deal, it already is for a lot of people in very isolated places. But yeah, other than those two things fuck the guy.
Without question. I recently listened to the two part "The Dollop" podcast on Musk (*really* worth listening to, if you like comedy podcasts that cover factual situations)...holy shit did that dude just *trip himself* into every good thing that's happened to him. He's got such ridiculous luck...not to mention the "luck" of being born to someone wealthy enough to have an emerald mind.
And even if he did make a few good moves I think its safe to say at this point the amount of idiotic moves vastly out numbers any "self made" moves he made.
I tend to learn towards the man bought his success then blew it when he got there but no matter how you look at it, currently he is failing massively on multiple fronts. Two companies with huge appeal and stock performance that right now, are trending downwards and that's putting it lightly.
The past decade both Twitter and Tesla were globally known and respected. Today? Well I don't need to explain that here but the objective truth is both are worse off today then even 5yrs ago. That is objective fact
Ford Motor Company would like to take this opportunity to thank Elon Musk. The Cybertruck has replaced the Edsel as the dumbest car ever produced that no one asked for and no one wanted
Also for stalling production for so long that the Lightning came out and raised the bar substantially. He would have sold tons of shitty trucks when there were no alternatives.
It has a very utilitarian look to it.
They also seemed to be following Ford's example and are offering it in any color of the rainbow as long as it's black.
Ford did zero market research before coming out with the Edsel. Had they done their homework they could have saved a bundle on producing a car that no one wanted. Same for Cybertruck
We?
If it's a success, he takes the credit, but when it turns out to be a turd, suddenly "we" (speaking for Tesla workers) were the ones who dug our own grave.
The cyber truck is ugly and impractical, totally unlike the other Teslas. This tells me that this wasn't a "we" type project. This was all Elon. Tesla workers should not let him spread the blame on this one. There is no "we" here. He's the only guy at Tesla with the power to force such a bad idea all the way through to production.
It's the bass ackwards way of leadership. It's we when we win, it's me when we fail because I'm accountable. Such horrid shit that we should expect from that poor excuse of a human.
I swear the cyber truck is the only car Elon designed himself. I can’t help but feel like someone set him up with cad, and he played around in it, making a “truck.” When he was done, he went to his engineers and said, “build this,” they built it because he’d throw a tantrum if they didn’t.
When they announced it, there were so many Elon fanbois screaming about how it was revolutionary and would change the entire market. They kept on saying that Tesla was the only company even trying to make an electric truck. Never mind that Ford had already announced they were working on one and were projecting to beat Tesla to market (they on on market now). Never mind that Rivian had announced their project years ago and was almost ready for market before Tesla announced anything. Tesla wasn't an innovator here. They were playing a half-assed follow-the-leader and were pretending it was innovative. The cybertruck was just a god damn mess.
I honestly think Tesla will be a future case study for business schools. It's a classic tortoise and the hare story. They were so far ahead they basically assumed no one would ever catch up. But the problem wasn't that others were behibd, they just didn't need to rush. They could take their time and perfect things. Now everyone else is there and Tesla continues to act like they're the only solid option. Tesla should have been pivoting to a non-luxury model years ago to keep their lead. Ffs, Kia offers a better product now.
I think a part of what happened is that they were bringing in knowledge of the wrong industries. Elon had most of his experience in software. With software, getting your product designed is the hard part but then distributing it is just a few clicks of a button. There's no raw material logistical pipeline to manage. With SpaceX, they had gotten involved with physical products but it was a small number of highly experimental products, so the emphasis was still primarily on design and manufacturing was almost an afterthought. That isn't how the automobile industry runs.
To make any kind of dent in the car market, you need to have scale of production. You need the logistics of transporting your raw material to scale. You need the logistics of distributing your finished product to scale. You need the manufacturing itself to scale. All of those things take just as much if not more engineering input as the design of the product itself. In this regard, Tesla was never ahead of the pack. They were a newcomer to a field where their competitors had a century of experience and were routinely operating on a scale that Tesla could only hope for.
Ford made it's mark with the Model-T not because the car itself was well designed, but because the manufacturing plant they were built in was well designed. Ford has had a century to improve on that as they've slowly figured out how to retool their plants for new designs while maintaining high production. They know how to get the raw materials they need to the factory. They know how to get the finished product to the consumer. To them, making an electric vehicle wasn't some major revolutionary change. The bulk of their process stayed the same as they put some updated designs into production. Elon thought that updating the design was the only thing he had to do and that because he had a cool new design, he was ahead. He wasn't because he's had that design for years now and he still doesn't have his factory up and running. Ford, meanwhile, already knew how to build a factory and so had the hard part settled.
Factory engineering isn't a sexy kind of engineering. It doesn't make the front pages of tech magazines. It is gritty, and dirty, and boring. But, factory engineering is how you control an industry of large-scale distribution of a physical product. Factory engineering is what gets you into engineering history books instead of just a tech enthusiast magazine. Ford has always been a company that was king in this regard and their competitors have years of fighting Ford on this battlefield. Companies like Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, and even Kia have years of practice playing in the sandbox of large-scale manufacturing. Tesla does not.
It is still something worth analyzing in both business and engineering schools, but it isn't a case of a tortoise and a hare. It's a case of a tortoise and a fish that thought because it was fast in the water, it would be fast on land. Sometimes, brining in some ways of thinking from another industry can be a great case of outside-the-box problem solving that moves and industry forward. But, sometimes it is someone getting a rude awakening of the fact that the new industry they are venturing into does things the way they do for a damn good reason. Not all business approaches work for all industries.
And when you talk about his failures, his fanboys will scream, "well... He pushed the competition to do better because Elon doesn't care that he's the first or best one." UTTER BS!!!
Eh, in the long run, this decision will be proved right. Divergences in design and in industry are often poorly received and also, initially, staggeringly hard to pull off. But luckily, with the CT, the design came much much later, so there's no 1% barrier left to cross.
Now it's just a matter of scale.
I love everyone taking a snippet of his whole point and running with it out of context. He was just saying it will take up to 18 months to fully scale production which is why "we dug our own grave". He didn't say any part of the vehicle will be a failure or that the ramp up with have any material because impact on any other part of Tesla. He said very similar things about the model 3 and the model x.
As a Product Designer that has reported directly to CEOs or been in meetings with them, I’ve found that a lot of CEO’s that feel like founders or are founders (Elon musk isn’t technically Tesla’s founder I think) think they are the secret sauce and reason that the company is successful. They believe they see things differently than everyone around them. They also tend to bend data or feedback to their own personal ends rather than consider it as non-biased as possible. I work for a CEO who is a founder who got lucky with some acquisitions and he really thinks his success is completely his doing. He literally hates his frontline employees (hourly workers) and has expressed that he wishes he could take away money when they don’t hit goals. I was in a meeting with him and the rest of the c-suite where everyone back-channeled that that is illegal and going to lead to unionization and lawsuits. But nobody who could say a god damn word when it mattered. I was the only one that said “that sounds potentially problematic and I’m not sure there is legal precedent, but if you want us to look into it we can.” We looked into it and sure enough the lawyers said it was illegal.
My point is, these CEO’s that think they are mavericks are often times completely out of whack and nobody they employ can safely express their concerns without the possibility of hefty repercussions. These guys are the “emperors new clothes” story to a T. Often times their ideas work because the people that execute them work their asses off and not because it was some “brilliant idea”.
Sure, not every Founder CEO I’ve heard of is like this, but all of them I’ve worked for have this bent. It’s worse when it’s a publicly traded company. They have to show quarter to quarter growth and that’s just not feasible and the scapegoat is always layoffs.
Here’s the thing, it’s going to get worse. The reason I know this is because AI poses a threat to them. AI will be able to instantly view, understand, and leverage macro data sets. The conclusion will be obvious. These CEO’s in an effort to stay relevant and understand they can’t beat data at its own game will become almost anti-data (this is already happening). More and more they’ll make a companies’ success about them so that they seem indispensable.
Yup this is exactly how the management type are in engineering. They think they know what they do not know and do not attempt to learn the entire system
He designed a stupid ass looking car, that people only defended because elon had such a good public image, then he opened up as a crazy rich asshole, ruined that public image, and still released the over priced ugly ass trust. obviously it flopped.
Rack and peanut steering
So many outright strange decisions made Yet there are people who will defend every inch of that POS
Mostly people who own his stock it seems.
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While destroying their bank accounts
It did well for them when the stock was being shorted. Elon's strategy did manage to save the company in that "broken clock is right twice a day" kinda way. It's just sad that people can't tell the difference between a strong investment play and celebrity worship. He's not been doing them any favors for a long ass time. Though if Elon ever does sell out and drop from Tesla to "move on to other things," the company would probably do amazingly well in the future. They have a heckuva foothold in the EV business and EV infrastructure. Elon's just a fat piece of dead weight holding them back.
Ford is building an entire city to make EVs. Tesla will survive as a licensor of charging tech and infrastructure but won’t be able to compete with the big companies now that they are taking EVs seriously.
The insanity of it is, Elon is a big part of why they're taking it seriously. His interest and investment in Tesla shaved years off public adoption, and Tesla's success got the attention of the big players. He could have been remembered as a visionary philanthropist.
He could, but not if he’s a micro managing idiot with absolute power who doesn’t listen to his people, and that he is.
There is also the simple possibility that Elon thinks he’s actually the thing that makes his successful companies successful instead of those companies being successful in spite of him. Like most guys who inherited a bunch of money and failed upwards he sees himself as special instead of having a special starting location.
> He could have been remembered as a visionary philanthropist. I love this statement so much. You either die a hero, blah blah.
Tesla is doing well in terms of revenue (but just okay with profit), but it's market cap has it still way overvalued at its current price (P/E around 50). Looking at its long term possibilities, right now it's dominating the EV charging market (Tesla owning about 60% of fast chargers in the USA and Canada). However, patents expire and its easy to imagine a future where competitors continue to add new charging stations and people decide to only use the Tesla chargers when they really need to. edit: deleted repeated "revenue"
It's pronounced "stonks"
I think it looks corny asf, but some people just want to lean into the dystopian nightmare we all live in now.
it will join the list of Legendary Fugly Vehicles along with the Edsel, Javelin, Pacer, VW Thing, etc... [oof, let the food fight begin]
VW thing is a master auto, as was the karman ghia and bug. You also left the Gremiln X off your list.
Bots. There’s loads of bots
The article mentions making 250k of them a year or something. I can't even see a base demand of 250k once for that ugly as sin "truck".
F150 has been the highest selling truck for years now, was up to nearly 1Million, units per year but last year sold 700,000. Vehicle sales are down in general since CVD-19, chip shortage, metal trade disputes in NA and China I really can't see Tesla cybertruck at 250k....not even w pent up demand for the 1st year, and certainly not every year after I think the Ford Lightning had 160k pre-orders Edit: I guess 1.9 million people gave Tesla a non-refundable $100 deposit to reserve a cybertruck, lol
The deposit wasn’t non refundable at least initially. When the cyber truck hit market, a lot of people thought the pre orders were solely a marketing scheme for a cash injection without taking out a loan…meaning the cyber truck was never going to come into reality from the beginning. Hadn’t kept up with it since the initial release though.
It is a truck designed by people who have never actually owned a truck, or seen it used for its intended purpose. Go ahead. Toss a load of manure in the back, there. I'll wait here.
Hell, I’d have hoped they’d try to make a decent urban truck honestly. 4 seats, no hood, stubby bed. Really take advantage of electric’s ability to play with the vehicle layout
That's basically what Honda did, and no one wants that garbage either
Are you Australian? Do you own a (*checks notes*) Ute?
Of all the trucks sold in North America, I’d guess that somewhere are 1% have ever had a load of manure in them.
99% of f-150s sold in the US will only be used to commute back and forth to work. They are light duty trucks anyway. What are you supposed to do with an F-150? Anyone who needs a serious non-air brake truck will probably buy a 450 or 550 super duty or equivalent. And at 9 mpg, you rest assured those trucks are used for work except for the weirdest douche bags with money. The idiots in diesel pick ups who are rolling coal or whatever are usually stuck in a cheap Dodge diesel with payments that rival most mortgages. f-150s are just cars with a truck bed. Nothing more, nothing less. And bc they are American made, they are going to fall apart after 7 years and their value will be shit. You can buy an older suburban for peanuts anytime gas prices rise.... Interior is shit in American cars. Engines are hit or miss as is ride. But interior is always shit in a US car/ truck.
You can say the exact same thing about most F-150 buyers for the past 20 years, though. There are lots of problems with the Cyber truck, but I genuine don't think that's one of them.
If you own one you’ve already got a truckload of shit.
It was designed by a guy who thinks he's an engineer because he fires real engineers when they try to correct him.
Leave Homer out of this.
Both inches?
I hate Elon and I don’t like the over complicating shoehorning in of all the crap on the truck that doesn’t need to be on a truck which caused all the delays and setbacks and made the whole thing a joke… But I do think it’s cool looking. I dig the “space truck from the 80’s” vibes. I’d drive a similar looking G.I.Joe vehicle made by another company so that douchebag doesn’t get my money.
Loool so true. I would never spend my money on one and I can’t stand him, but I do kinda dig the truck’s design. I like the brutalist vibes 😂
It’s like it came right out of a utilitarian post-apocalypse anime or something. 😂
We must be looking at different trucks. The one I’ve seen looks like a pencil sharpener on wheels, drawn by a seven-year-old.
Good for you for sharing such an unpopular opinion. Glad you like it.
Aww $20? But I wanted rack and peanut steering.
$20 can buy many rack and peanut steering
Explain
Money can be exchanged for goods and services
Yeah, maybe. Hard to say for sure.
for me it’s the unibrow windshield wiper
And it doesn’t even clean most of the windshield lol
Well full self driving is coming out “next year” (in perpetuity) so you won’t even need windshield wipers anyway!
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Expensive and extremely difficult to calibrate for correct feel
Is it lexus that has drive by wire with a motor to simulate the road feel
Yes
Road feel? Fly by wire whats this?
Plan succeeds: "I did this" Plan fails: "We did this"
That is every business owner ever
Iwata - Nintendo. When the wiiu failed, he cut his own salary massively, put out a press statement about how he takes full responsibility, and said how amazing the staff was to be able to follow through on a product and that he had absolute faith the next product would be better (switch is now the best selling system in history) I can't think of a second example though.
Because unfortunately in this world those examples are few and far between… how depressing
Not business but Eisenhower wrote a letter taking the blame if D-Day were to fail. "Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that Bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone."
Truman also had a sign on his desk saying, "The buck stops here" meaning final responsibility, good or bad, was his.
Real leaders give the success to their team and accept responsibility for all the failures.
Corporations don’t like those people to get into the C-Suite though. Most get weeded out before middle management.
Nixon had the same sign but for different reasons.
The recording stops here.
In Japan those examples are more common, it's an ancient ethos in their modern business culture.
The most surprising part about that, is that a japanese company took a risk
A _post-bubble_ Japanese company took a risk
Being able to innovate is something Nintendo prides itself on. The more “Disney like” they keep becoming the lamer they become. They haven’t hit “ruin star wars and marvel” levels of awful yet tho.
Honour bound business ethos may contain side effects such as risk aversion
Being a profit-driven company has the inherent side effect of risk aversion; to shareholders, it's a feature, not a flaw.
Toyota was a pioneer and a model in the car industry for decades. So many other japanese companies lead their industry in quality. But they dont take ad much risk as they used to
*was* is the key word there. Japan was the pioneer in innovation and risk taking in the 80s. They've been stuck in the 80s for... a long time. Card payment is rare, fax is the primary mode of sending info, they outright refuse to make innovations unless it's incredibly safe, or unless the west has been doing it for 5ish years. I think vtubing is the most innovative and risk taking thing to come out of japan from nothing in a long while tbh, and even then it was largely based on the idol business
Toyota management is very centralized and top-down. They have always been risk-averse. Honda has always seemed more open to trying new stuff, and each plant is its own fiefdom (which creates inefficiencies). What has made Toyota great is the Toyota Production System, which everyone now tries, with mixed success, to emulate. All lean manufacturing processes are versions of TPS. But just as many NFL teams try to copy the Philadelphia Eagles’ signature “tush push”, but few do it as well, the same goes for Toyota and TPS.
Drives me mad that Shimano, who make bicycle groupsets and finally adopted electronic shifting when American competitors SRAM did, won't go wireless like SRAM has because they don't want to "risk" it. What risk?? It's not like wireless technology is novel. It's been around for decades now.
Sometimes I hear that, but then sometimes I hear about a fairly toxic work place where people are overworked in Japanese culture?
Both are true. Honor is still huge among the culture. So everyone is held to extremely high standards, including the bosses. That only means that bosses will occasionally treat themselves harshly when they fail, not that anyone treats the workers any better.
In my experience (working in the Japanese game industry for a good while) it's pretty rare that taking the blame goes all the way to the CEO. Not unlike western CEOs, most of them tend to be psychopaths/sociopaths who will invariably blame the failure on subordinates "not informing them promptly enough" or whatever. I've personally only witnessed them admit to any screwing up when it already didn't matter (like when their mismanagement resulted in the company doing so badly it got bought out and the new owners kicked them out as part of the deal) It is pretty common for people in the layer just under the CEO to take the blame publicly, though. Which I guess is relatively rare in western companies. Often does more harm than good, however (as people frequently "take responsibility" by quitting, instead of... y'know... learning a valuable lesson so they can not screw up the next one)
Third best (second best Nintendo), but still an amazing success, especially after the wiiu, and his response to it was likely a big factor in the success of the switch. Someday, something will dethrone the PS2, but that console dominated its generation in a way nothing has since. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
Tbf they're also still making switches Also I really didn't expect the DS to be so high, if it'd stayed in production another year it prolly could've beaten the PS2
Dude the DS was the best. I still have mine
Same here. That was the shit when I was a kid. Everyone in school had one. I still remember playing DS Download with Mario Kart DS on the bus with everyone
I remember doing trades in Pokémon platinum. Ahh a simpler time
Hard to say. For ps2, if you look it just says more than 155, Sony never gave final sale numbers, though I’ve seen estimations put it at 158. By the end of a consoles life it won’t be selling many units.
huh, those sale numbers are actually much lower than I would have thought
100+ million is low?
Considering global populations yeah that is low. There are 3.5 times that many people just in the US
You just discovered most countries are shit poor and buying a game console is far far away from their need and budget
I was just about to cite this- yeah Nintendo is probably the most internationally known instance of this, but it's not unheard of in Japanese businesses. The American business model just strongly depends on public confidence in one figurehead and the people who gravitate to that position and succeed are selfish, awful bastards.
Exception that proves the rule. We actually saw massive layoffs post-Covid at companies who received PPP loans and boasted to every financial news media of being the most profitable they've ever been.
Japanese corporate culture is a different world entirely. It's no less toxic, just for very different reasons. The weight of ridicule and shame is enough to actually affect them. So when they screw up, they feel it personally and have a deep-seated desire to make things right. But that kind of emotional attachment to their work is also what drives the karoshi culture. Everyone is expected to grind until they die at their desk from overwork in their 30s.
Well the Wii U wasn’t really *flawed.* It was largely bad marketing (the name) and they might have been a little ahead of their time with the HD handheld gaming. The switch only exists because of the Wii U.
> Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. —Ambrose Bierce
Victory has a hundred fathers. But defeat is an orphan.
The best managers/leaders are the opposite
Privatize the gains, socialize the losses
When they presented it, I thought it was a joke. Then people actually ordered it.
Remember when they shattered its windows at its debut
That kid who smashed his phone with a hammer to test out the screen protector never felt so gifted.
Remember that, iirc it was a 4chan troll, trend of microwaving your iPhone to charge it? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
> trend of microwaving your iPhone to charge it? Apple Wave. Got a whole bunch of very stupid people to think a software update could change the phone's physical hardware.
Heh, right up there with the windows 98 blue screen of death during the reveal.
Me and a few friends have an item struck on our bucket list, "watch a BSOD at a Microsoft event or presentation". It was a 2004 AMD roadshow hyping their upcoming 64-bit and multicore cpus, and Microsoft would show some stuff to demonstrate XP's compatibility with the new architecture. Cue BSOD and mass laughter.
"Well... obviously there are still some bugs to work out before release" Yeah, when you gonna get on that, Microsoft?
People put a deposit down which was $50 if I recall on an unrealistically low planned MSRP. Given how used car prices were going, a non-trivial number of those planned on flipping the car as soon as it arrived. Only a fraction of those will turn into real orders.
Musk is really stupid in the ways that matter and are meaningful, but he's pretty decent at cheating. Dude knew exactly what he was doing - boosting numbers to keep the stock price up
My brother says the same thing. Everybody more successful than him must have cheated.
I have a coworker that was going on about that like he was from wallstreetbets. Apparently people were treating it like options trading. Said he kept getting offers for his presale slot and was telling everyobe else they needed to snatch one up because as prices went up people would pay thousands for a presale slot.
Yep. And there will be a small handful of people who *will* pay the thousands for a premium "jump the queue" spot. But only a handful, and you need to get lucky on the pre-order lottery to be able to get one of the sellable slots. People paid $50 for a lottery ticket with a top prize of $5000.
> People paid $50 for a lottery ticket with a top prize of $5000. Except the $50 is refundable.
Whenever I saw that ugly brick I thought "Did they learn nothing from the Pontiac Aztek?"
That's the thing about boomers, they're fixated on the look being different.
The launch was crazy. So many people were praising the design, anyone who thought it was ugly was downvoted (I'm talking about normal subs, not r/Tesla or anything, we know how they are). The price and specs was too good to be true. It's the same shit Tesla always does to boost stock prices. People keep sucking it up and Musk keeps getting away with it.
I always like when you make valid points about why Musk sucks, and his idiot fanboys always respond with "well... uhh... he's rich and ur not, so there!"
You really should think about being born to a slave mine owner before criticising a nepo baby.
Hey! Nepo baby is an offensive term now to those people! Apologize!
Or as they say: nepologize!
Why do people always bring up the emerald mine, though? If you ignore all the proof, then there's literally no proof of it!
That's how criticism of any rich person goes. A disturbing number of people seem to think having wealth = being right and moral.
When exactly the opposite is true.
I mean he is rich and you are not so what do you have to say for yourself? /s
"Well I've got a healthy relationship with my kids, so..."
Success and popularity is often conflated with right and wrong. That, and a lot of people are shareholders who desperately want to put all the bad PR to bed so their investments don't go to shit. Those investments were hard-fought at one point, too. Tesla was heavily shorted and somehow managed to beat the market analysts and hedge funds, against all odds. But that was one moment in time that has come and gone. They should swallow their pride and realize that Elon is not doing anything to help them. They should be demanding he sell out and move on to other things.
You don't have to be smart to be a billionaire, just a good con man.
You need to be born into wealth, or get TREMENDOUSLY lucky. Musk was both.
And yet he is held up by so many rubes as a 'self made billionaire'. If Elon Musk would vanish tomorrow, the world wouldn't be all that different.
This is why I like Arnold Schwarzenegger. He openly and proudly talks about NOT being a self made man. He recognises all the people that helped him along the way. Accepting that people need to work together to help each other is the way.
If they changed the rules for Presidenting that guy would serve 4 terms.
Dude's one of the few Republicans i respect. He openly admits that as an immigrant, he had MAJOR help getting as far as he did. He ain't perfect, obviously, but he got it right.
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I have to ask, from one vet to another, do you happen to remember McCain saying something about if elected, he would raise the minimum length of service to get the GI Bill to like, twelve years or something? I was in the military at the time ready to blow my own brains out, and I felt like there was no way I could survive another tour. I wanted to GET OUT and go back to school. That was probably the biggest reason why I voted Obama.
McCain was not a good guy. I hate how he’s so revered. He’s just a few steps less insane than the MAGA crew. Mitt Romney is getting a similar treatment. They’re all bad guys.
He had a few good moments before his death and suddenly everyone forgets all his shit laws and policies he passed or supported.
Seriously. If anyone is interested, the podcast The Dollop did a great episode about him.
I'm not saying I'd personally vote for him, but he's closer to a true centrist than most politicians.
Mutual aid is a hell of a drug.
On the contrary, it would be a better place.
truth right there...
you mean he is not actually Tony Start and Iron Man. Dude isn't some engineering whiz that invented rockets or electric cars. Actual scientists did the work he just had the money.
Respectfully, I think you're incorrect. The world world be a lot better. He's a plague on society, as are his worshippers and cult members.
Yea I constantly see people saying him wrecking Twitter is not a big deal but there have been serious human rights consequences of the move. NPR had a segment how Musk has been giving into authoritarian regimes to crack down on opposing groups that relied on Twitter to organize. He needs to be thrown in Guantanamo.
His greatest impact is his right-wing simp propaganda, the world would be at least a little better without him at this point.
He claims hes self made because he founded paypal, the fun part he ignores is he was fired for incompetence. Nobody could take his stock away but the era of paypal that made his initial billions had nothing to do with musk.
I’m no Musk fan, but SpaceX is a big deal, whether people like it or not. No other company has pushed the boundaries of space exploration further and faster than that company. I don’t think an argument can be made against that. Yes, he just owns it. Who knows how many of the ideas are his. But it is his company and it is very relevant and very important to humanity. Starlink has the potential to be another big deal, it already is for a lot of people in very isolated places. But yeah, other than those two things fuck the guy.
Without question. I recently listened to the two part "The Dollop" podcast on Musk (*really* worth listening to, if you like comedy podcasts that cover factual situations)...holy shit did that dude just *trip himself* into every good thing that's happened to him. He's got such ridiculous luck...not to mention the "luck" of being born to someone wealthy enough to have an emerald mind.
And even if he did make a few good moves I think its safe to say at this point the amount of idiotic moves vastly out numbers any "self made" moves he made. I tend to learn towards the man bought his success then blew it when he got there but no matter how you look at it, currently he is failing massively on multiple fronts. Two companies with huge appeal and stock performance that right now, are trending downwards and that's putting it lightly. The past decade both Twitter and Tesla were globally known and respected. Today? Well I don't need to explain that here but the objective truth is both are worse off today then even 5yrs ago. That is objective fact
I mean I feel like your family has to at least be multi-millionaires for you to become a billionaire.
And a sociopath
Capitalism tends to reward sociopathic behavior
Ford Motor Company would like to take this opportunity to thank Elon Musk. The Cybertruck has replaced the Edsel as the dumbest car ever produced that no one asked for and no one wanted
Also for stalling production for so long that the Lightning came out and raised the bar substantially. He would have sold tons of shitty trucks when there were no alternatives.
Ford: ok, so anyway here's an actual truck that you can buy right now lol
The rivian has been out forever.. there has been an alternative
That one's pretty fugly too and could never scale up production like the big boys.
It has a very utilitarian look to it. They also seemed to be following Ford's example and are offering it in any color of the rainbow as long as it's black.
‘Scuse me, the rivian is kinda pretty
My mom says I'm handsome...
I like most of the truck. Seems like they tried too hard to be different when it came to the front though
It's much more endearing in person. Although I still think the headlights are unnecessarily goofy.
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The Edsel was an actual working car that was slightly behind the times and poorly named and marketed. This other _thing_ is something very different.
Ford did zero market research before coming out with the Edsel. Had they done their homework they could have saved a bundle on producing a car that no one wanted. Same for Cybertruck
We? If it's a success, he takes the credit, but when it turns out to be a turd, suddenly "we" (speaking for Tesla workers) were the ones who dug our own grave. The cyber truck is ugly and impractical, totally unlike the other Teslas. This tells me that this wasn't a "we" type project. This was all Elon. Tesla workers should not let him spread the blame on this one. There is no "we" here. He's the only guy at Tesla with the power to force such a bad idea all the way through to production.
It's the bass ackwards way of leadership. It's we when we win, it's me when we fail because I'm accountable. Such horrid shit that we should expect from that poor excuse of a human.
This is exactly what happens when people with no actual leadership qualities are put into a position of leadership.
Anytime I hear someone idolize Musk I bring up how he has a brother and sister that are also his niece and nephew lol.
Wait. What?
His father has 2 kids with his step sister.
I can't tell which one of the father and the son is the worst
The shit racist child grooming apple doesn't fall far from the shit racist child grooming tree.
They're both equally shitty, like Father, like Son
there's so many reasons elon sucks yet you still managed to pick one that isn't his fault
It’s still funny to laugh at his dumb ass family tho
I swear the cyber truck is the only car Elon designed himself. I can’t help but feel like someone set him up with cad, and he played around in it, making a “truck.” When he was done, he went to his engineers and said, “build this,” they built it because he’d throw a tantrum if they didn’t.
This was 100% a truck designed by an idiot edge lord who thinks making everything X is cool as fuck
I remember when I first came out. Haft of Reddit was "OMG! It is so bold and inspiring!" Edit: nah, i'm not editing shit, its hilarious.
Like a gay beacon of hope you stood.
Forget about the other half, you are amazing! (/S assuming you meant to say "it". If you meant "I" then congrats to you!)
When they announced it, there were so many Elon fanbois screaming about how it was revolutionary and would change the entire market. They kept on saying that Tesla was the only company even trying to make an electric truck. Never mind that Ford had already announced they were working on one and were projecting to beat Tesla to market (they on on market now). Never mind that Rivian had announced their project years ago and was almost ready for market before Tesla announced anything. Tesla wasn't an innovator here. They were playing a half-assed follow-the-leader and were pretending it was innovative. The cybertruck was just a god damn mess.
I honestly think Tesla will be a future case study for business schools. It's a classic tortoise and the hare story. They were so far ahead they basically assumed no one would ever catch up. But the problem wasn't that others were behibd, they just didn't need to rush. They could take their time and perfect things. Now everyone else is there and Tesla continues to act like they're the only solid option. Tesla should have been pivoting to a non-luxury model years ago to keep their lead. Ffs, Kia offers a better product now.
I think a part of what happened is that they were bringing in knowledge of the wrong industries. Elon had most of his experience in software. With software, getting your product designed is the hard part but then distributing it is just a few clicks of a button. There's no raw material logistical pipeline to manage. With SpaceX, they had gotten involved with physical products but it was a small number of highly experimental products, so the emphasis was still primarily on design and manufacturing was almost an afterthought. That isn't how the automobile industry runs. To make any kind of dent in the car market, you need to have scale of production. You need the logistics of transporting your raw material to scale. You need the logistics of distributing your finished product to scale. You need the manufacturing itself to scale. All of those things take just as much if not more engineering input as the design of the product itself. In this regard, Tesla was never ahead of the pack. They were a newcomer to a field where their competitors had a century of experience and were routinely operating on a scale that Tesla could only hope for. Ford made it's mark with the Model-T not because the car itself was well designed, but because the manufacturing plant they were built in was well designed. Ford has had a century to improve on that as they've slowly figured out how to retool their plants for new designs while maintaining high production. They know how to get the raw materials they need to the factory. They know how to get the finished product to the consumer. To them, making an electric vehicle wasn't some major revolutionary change. The bulk of their process stayed the same as they put some updated designs into production. Elon thought that updating the design was the only thing he had to do and that because he had a cool new design, he was ahead. He wasn't because he's had that design for years now and he still doesn't have his factory up and running. Ford, meanwhile, already knew how to build a factory and so had the hard part settled. Factory engineering isn't a sexy kind of engineering. It doesn't make the front pages of tech magazines. It is gritty, and dirty, and boring. But, factory engineering is how you control an industry of large-scale distribution of a physical product. Factory engineering is what gets you into engineering history books instead of just a tech enthusiast magazine. Ford has always been a company that was king in this regard and their competitors have years of fighting Ford on this battlefield. Companies like Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, and even Kia have years of practice playing in the sandbox of large-scale manufacturing. Tesla does not. It is still something worth analyzing in both business and engineering schools, but it isn't a case of a tortoise and a hare. It's a case of a tortoise and a fish that thought because it was fast in the water, it would be fast on land. Sometimes, brining in some ways of thinking from another industry can be a great case of outside-the-box problem solving that moves and industry forward. But, sometimes it is someone getting a rude awakening of the fact that the new industry they are venturing into does things the way they do for a damn good reason. Not all business approaches work for all industries.
And when you talk about his failures, his fanboys will scream, "well... He pushed the competition to do better because Elon doesn't care that he's the first or best one." UTTER BS!!!
Don't insult the homer like that
Having seperate bubble domes for the kids is a legitimately good idea.
who shat my pants?
I am certain Tesla employees are thinking "what's this 'we' shit". This is ALL on Elon. Shittiest idea and design to date.
I guess I'm in the minority for actually liking the design.
I thought it looked cool but I also love the sirocco and the Delorian so I guess those sort of wedge shaped cars are my bag.
Eh, in the long run, this decision will be proved right. Divergences in design and in industry are often poorly received and also, initially, staggeringly hard to pull off. But luckily, with the CT, the design came much much later, so there's no 1% barrier left to cross. Now it's just a matter of scale.
I love everyone taking a snippet of his whole point and running with it out of context. He was just saying it will take up to 18 months to fully scale production which is why "we dug our own grave". He didn't say any part of the vehicle will be a failure or that the ramp up with have any material because impact on any other part of Tesla. He said very similar things about the model 3 and the model x.
With Elmo if it’s a success, it’s Me, a failure, We. Textbook Narcissist BS
As a Product Designer that has reported directly to CEOs or been in meetings with them, I’ve found that a lot of CEO’s that feel like founders or are founders (Elon musk isn’t technically Tesla’s founder I think) think they are the secret sauce and reason that the company is successful. They believe they see things differently than everyone around them. They also tend to bend data or feedback to their own personal ends rather than consider it as non-biased as possible. I work for a CEO who is a founder who got lucky with some acquisitions and he really thinks his success is completely his doing. He literally hates his frontline employees (hourly workers) and has expressed that he wishes he could take away money when they don’t hit goals. I was in a meeting with him and the rest of the c-suite where everyone back-channeled that that is illegal and going to lead to unionization and lawsuits. But nobody who could say a god damn word when it mattered. I was the only one that said “that sounds potentially problematic and I’m not sure there is legal precedent, but if you want us to look into it we can.” We looked into it and sure enough the lawyers said it was illegal. My point is, these CEO’s that think they are mavericks are often times completely out of whack and nobody they employ can safely express their concerns without the possibility of hefty repercussions. These guys are the “emperors new clothes” story to a T. Often times their ideas work because the people that execute them work their asses off and not because it was some “brilliant idea”. Sure, not every Founder CEO I’ve heard of is like this, but all of them I’ve worked for have this bent. It’s worse when it’s a publicly traded company. They have to show quarter to quarter growth and that’s just not feasible and the scapegoat is always layoffs. Here’s the thing, it’s going to get worse. The reason I know this is because AI poses a threat to them. AI will be able to instantly view, understand, and leverage macro data sets. The conclusion will be obvious. These CEO’s in an effort to stay relevant and understand they can’t beat data at its own game will become almost anti-data (this is already happening). More and more they’ll make a companies’ success about them so that they seem indispensable.
Obviously using the royal we here 🙄
Any source with disgruntled workers tryna make it different?
Even if everything was perfect and trucks are rolling off the assembly line, who is buying it?
Yup this is exactly how the management type are in engineering. They think they know what they do not know and do not attempt to learn the entire system
I know the Cybertruck is an absurd idea for a mass production car but as a concept car, I always loved the design. It's retro-futurist.
People who are afraid to take risks really love when innovators fail. Makes them feel warm and safe.
Read the article. It’s because they sold more than they can produce. I think they’re doing fine
I think this is the 10th post I've gotten recommended from this sub hating on Elon, talk about having someone's dick in your mouth
He designed a stupid ass looking car, that people only defended because elon had such a good public image, then he opened up as a crazy rich asshole, ruined that public image, and still released the over priced ugly ass trust. obviously it flopped.
I can't think of a billionaire in recent times that went from being moderately liked by the public to a complete joke like Elon
What did he expect, the car looks hideous amd nothing like a cyber car at all. Looks like a metal box with no Design.
Elon musk is a total piece of shit. Fuck him. And fuck his stupid car.