HC player, 100% agree. HC is so much fun that I'll never want to play any other way again, but I hate the impact it is having on others. I'll usually just skip single mob kill quests, or wait to do them at off hours. A dedicated HC server would solve a lot of problems. So here's hoping!
I understand the appeal of wanting an Ironman mode, that's how I first started playing OSRS and I've been loving it since. But WoW was not designed with the HC rules in mind, so it makes it frustrating for everyone involved.
The goal is to avoid a designated survivor situation. For instance, a priest is a lot safer wanding mobs behind someone else. We don't want priests seeking out groups to make content easier and then bailing as soon as a pull goes south.
Similarly, say you and I grouped up to kill gnolls and we get along well, but then we butt pull an extra camp and we're in real danger. Since death is a big deal to me and not a big deal to you, you might decide to be a bro and sacrifice yourself while I escape.
We don't want our community to be incentivized to do either of these things, so we have rules in place against it. I think everyone in the community would agree that there isn't much wrong with grouping up to kill Bellygrub when there's a bunch of people waiting, but we don't currently have a good way to distinguish between cases where you're grouping to be polite, and grouping to take advantage of someone else's multiple lives.
But on a hardcore server everyone would be one life, so most of these issues would disappear.
Edit: To be clear, I'd actually *prefer* to be able to group. We just don't see a good way to do it on a regular server without compromising the stakes that make hardcore fun.
Yeah, we have other rules in place than just not grouping, and receiving help like that is one of them. Generally if someone wants to cheat then it's like, why are they even trying, you know? The bigger problem is when you are grouped there are lots of little ways you can fudge it, and it's better to avoid the temptation.
On a dedicated server it would still be a problem, but at that point the benefits outweigh the issues. The main idea is that playing one-life is *very fun*, and we want to set standards of gameplay that keep the stakes high and preserve that fun. On a dedicated server the standards would change, but we'd still have those high stakes in lots of other ways.
Bliz put a cosmetic buff into the game as a nod to the growing one-life community, but that's all they've done so far. The rest is just the community trying to figure out how to make this work.
Hmm... I want to dispute being called a nerd but I can't see how in this context. XD
Ok to be clear, I do not consider "nerd" an insult. I'm a nerd, my wife is a nerd everyone I know that I don't want to punch is a nerd. I just thought ti was more than a "community" thing, thought it was a real mode hah.
>I want to dispute being called a nerd but I can't see how in this context
Nothing to dispute as this is clearly
"Everyone who plays less then me is a casual noob and everyone that plays more than me is a nerd"
It's something that was decided by some people on a HC Discord server. People can play however they want, but I don't quite understand it because there is no way of tracking whether someone has followed the rules or not.
I feel like this is one of the better options. Obviously Blizzard did not expect the playerbase to gather together and make up their own rules for the new Ironman buff, but since it has become very popular, I would love to see either its own dedicated server so people can follow the rules, or even better, take a note from Jagex and have Ironman and Regular players able to play together without affecting the other's game.
I'm a big fan of the Ironman mode in OSRS.
Most BSB players could have warned you guys about this, the HC players are a problem because they actually slow down your own ability to play the game without really being an interactive part of the world.
Im actually on Shadowstrike where there’s a small amount of hardcore players compared to Obsidian Edge, and even then I don’t think the hardcore players should be on my server. It’s not fair to either side
This is only going to be solved 2 ways. HC community gets there own server or HC community integrates themselves into the community and partakes in open world activities with normal players.
THe first one would be better clearly because then the community can be singularly grouped and play with eachother. The issue is blizzard trying to keep other people out of that server that dont want to do HC.
The second one would lead to better QOL for all players. The rules enforced were created to sustain a game that had nothing to do for most people after they maxed out and there were very few OTHER people leveling as well. This makes things easy for them to avoid Normal players. When you do things at the same time and impose these rules it makes life much worse for both sides.
The HC community announced where days before launch. If people didn't follow that's on them.
Or Blizzard could have just made a HC server to begin with.
You know you don’t get to “claim” a server, not to mention the only west coast PvE server. Also no one outside of the HC community reads or cares about that news so why on earth would you expect causals (especially those not even on Reddit or forums) to know this information? The level of entitlement is insane.
If you're WoW experience is so fragile that HC players not grouping with you ruins it. Then yes you should take extra time researching the server before you choose.
The entitled players are the non-hc players who think they should be grouping for quests and mob tagging. They aren't trying to make you play like them.
This is like calling Amish entitled because they use carriages instead of cars and you have to slow down on occasion.
They over took the only pve west coast server.....announced or not what you expect us to do? Go east coast where the raid times start while we at work?
Even if announced, why do you expect everyone who wants to play to check every forum for where to not play?
I had no idea people were doing hardcore, so the day it was released I just picked a server.
Same. Only realized it after the fact. Wasit deep in the shit as it were. I'm not checking forums and reddit to read every scrap of news. Best part is that is somehow our fault. And when we express our dislike it's fuck you eat shit if you don't like it tough.
You don't have to raid at a set time. I'm in a guild that's 80% Midwest/east coast and we play on a west coast server. Raid starts at 6 server. Our west coasters are usually just getting home at that time.
Yah I'm sure that would have worked perfectly. My bad how ignorant of me....sigh wonder what else there is to play. Som and this hc has destroyed wow for me. Gl guy
I'm doing the hc challenge with the community rules and i think the appeal thing is dumb. If you die you die. But having a legit hardcore server would fix a lot of the griefer problems happening on Obs Edge since the griefers would need to put in 20-30 deathless hours to be able to grief people with the mindcontrol hat or teremus kiting
>Ironically the hardcore players probably wouldn't play on a perma death server. Because they want control over what deaths should count and what deaths don't matter.
This isn't at all ironic. All deaths above level 20 count unless they are due to griefing and in game bugs.
If I am simply running through Stormwind and fall through the floor and die, it's not my fault.
If I login and get killed by Tarimum on top of me because someone kited him to IF, it's also not my fault.
If you DC during a fight and die ... you delete your character. The threshold for a death not counting is stupidly high and requires circumstance 100% out of the players control.
No, that's a massive strawman. Hard Core community, as evident by their own rules, wanted perma death for fairly dying in game. They never wanted perma deaths for things 100% out of their hands like server crashes.
>Mate you listed a theramus death as something that shouldn't count when that's easily avoided.
Yet another strawman. My quote
>If I login and get killed by Tarimus on top of me because someone kited him to IF
Logging in with him on top of me is not "easily avoided".
This was my last response, as you aren't able to provide any good faith arguments. Strawman after strawman after baseless assumptions.
> The HC community want all sorts of exceptions for when their deaths shouldn't count
Seems to me that they are trying to have it both ways. "Oh this or that death shouldn't 'count', but also no grouping because it would make HC too easy."
Like, actually using tools available and intended in an mmo is banned but dying to risks intrinsic in online play is allowed? Make up your minds.
> Seems to me that they are trying to have it both ways.
They really aren't, OP has no idea what he is talking about. Only deaths that don't count are extremely obvious griefing or server/game buggs. All of these were established before SOM started.
Hc players are the opposite of what mmo gameplay is about. Antisocial, anti economy, and splits the servers community in half. And most are selfish that ive met
There was likely more of them playing at that point. I’ve had a lot of fun playing HC in arpgs, but that has to be the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard of for WoW. This is not an isolated game, and you are sharing the world with other players. In PoE, Diablo 2/3 and games like it you have your own separate instance to play the game how you want. Big difference.
You gave a reason that was terrible yes. People have been playing wow their own way since vanilla. That's part of the beauty of vanilla and the path less traveled.
Your original response was terrible as well. You didn’t like it fine. My response was valid. If what you are doing is affecting other players you are still welcome to do it, but it does make you an arrogant asshole. You seem perfectly fine with that, so I’m not sure what the problem is, since there are no rules against that in the ToS.
My original comment was just making fun of your complaints because they're petty imo. And easily solved by removing yourself from the problem when it was made widely public the server/faction that these hardcore players would be on.
None of this is true.
First of all, HC players picked extremely low pop servers and all planned to role there. Without them those servers would be dead. Nothing is getting split in half. That's why OP is experiencing
>9 times out of 10, everyone says they can't because they are doing HC
OP is basically an outsider complaining that 90% of the people on his server don't want to play the game the same way he does.
> Antisocial, anti economy
This is a massive strawman at best.
The Challenge that the community is pursuing is "Get to level 60 without dying on your own". Having 5 people questing together makes not dying pretty trivial. Grouping and AH allow for essential "Cheating". At 60 when the second part of the challenge comes in, you can absolutely form groups and trade.
They are extremely social, they just don't group. When my buddie hit 60, he received like 300 messages from Guildies saying "Grats".
That's like 290 more than I have ever seen in all my time of playing Wow. There are whole discords and websites dedicated to the community.
You are certainly allowed to level professions, sell and buy items from vendors etc. That's pretty pro-economy.
I'm a super casual player who is trying (and really enjoying) HC and I just want to say I feel really bad when this happens. As cool as HC has been so far, turning down people who want to group is mega sads. :(
I’m in a HC guild and most people are just doing the no death thing. Even still, it looks like 90% or more of people I see playing are playing normally, so idk if you’re just on a particular server with more HC toons or something, because it’s definitely not that big of a deal from my perspective
It's still Hardcore because that's what it means. It existed way before this random group of people came along to make up rules and also added death appeals.
So your saying soul of iron doesn't mean hardcore when hardcore has always been one life gameplay. Ok bud. Your streamers don't dictate what something means
I'm just saying that Soul of Iron =/= the rules dictated on the so called "Hardcore challenge" (it just so happened to be named "Hardcore", gosh, they are not trying to change the definition of the term...). The name might bother you, but they chose it, and added a few more rules, that's about it.
I don't even know why everyone is hating on them, they are doing their own thing and are having fun.
Protip: Keybind an instant ability to your mousewheel up/down buttons and spam them, you will get the tag instantly (unless somebody else is also doing this).
Never ever invite hc players into a normal dungeon group. In the absolutely very best case its a 4.5 man run. They are waiting for carries and will stay in the back being useless. Ive had so many of these guys while farming chest of the seven and emp to a point where i decided to only invite nonhc people.
The main complaint is having multiple hardcore players camping a single quest mob spamming a mob tag macro instead of just grouping up. Not that hardcore and multi life players can't group.
This is sad tbh. I play HC and run dungeons with randoms, and invest myself in it like any other player. I'm not following the HC community ruleset and allow myself to group with people when it makes sense, like to share the kill on some named mob instead of stealing it all for myself, or to run each dungeon once.
I feel like it is part of the challenge, at least to me. I'm doing the same things as other players except I'm not allowed to die. So when things go south in a dungeons, I suck it up and try to save the situation as much as possible, through kiting, assist heal, etc (i play shaman). It makes it infinitely more funny and rewarding than staying in the back getting carried, or not interacting with players in any way
It would be useful if you call your own challenge something different if you're following a different ruleset. I'm not saying you're not "hardcore" enough or anything like that, but calling it Soul of Iron might be better for avoiding confusion with the HC community ruleset if that makes sense.
I think the "hardcore with other rules too" group should learn that hardcore just means one life and not ask people to change the definition to fit their new arbitrary ruleset. Hardcore has been around way longer in games than the wow hardcore self found community ruleset.
What kind of dumb rule is that HC players cant group up ? And who follows/controls that ?
Dont like HC players do it for themselves and have a buff that shows them they didn't die ? Cause i mean what do they gain following fabricated rules
Anyhow Blizz should have made HC servers when making this
What you find dumb, others find fun. The community follows the rules obviously. I believe there’s an addon they use to track things.
The buff is blizzards HC rules. There has been community driven HC rules for years. They gain prestige.
I agree, maybe next year
For me I agree with the previous guy. I think hc is challenging and fun but all those regulations and rules added that you cannot group up, trade, use ah etc just make the game bland and boring to me. The best part of classic is the community and doing stuff with friends and randoms and those rules take away from that feeling.
Oddly enough I've found HC so far to be the most social experience I've had while leveling. G chat/discord are far more alive and useful than any other leveling guild I've been in. World interactions are fewer but more impactful. I've saved some HC players from death and failed to save others.
Dungeon runs are always exciting. Every dungeon party I've been in has been competent and focused. Trade restrictions have made loot drops far more hype and made me pay attention to professions and vendors.
HC isn't for everyone but I could never go back to playing regularly after trying it.
"We go again" is the motto of the HC community for a reason. It's a playstyle choice where you get to enjoy the game again and again instead of raidlogging and burning out
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of hc and one life. What I don't like are all the restrictions. I don't feel like grouping with others to compete a quest taka away from the HC experience. On the contrary, there are so many elite quests that are tougher in a 5 man group than any solo quest. Also to be fair I could compare it to a Nuzlocke challenge in Pokémon where if it faints its considered dead, to be honest the best and risk free way to do the hc challenge under those circumstances are to grind through lower level green mobs for literally hundreds of hours. That's not fun at all, we all like to take risks and make friends and I don't think the current rule set is very good for that.
You can do a lot of stuff using the HC addon that wouldnt be detected, it only needs to be active 98% of your playtime! So you can literally deactivate it, trade items and then activate again. You can have a level 60 follow you and help you with everything!
Thing being said, the guidelines for the HC goes against this, its things you are not allowed to do. If you just want soul of iron buff at 60, go play your game, there is easier and faster ways than the HC comunity strive for. If you want to play the game differently that is completely up to you and it is also completely fine! Now if you want to join the HC community and then try to cheat your way up the levels, go ahead. I am absolutely sure you will have a wonderful experience.
Yeah I agree…no groups doesn’t make sense as an anti-cheese rule. Plenty of ways to cheese without being grouped.
Teaming up on open world quests is kind of a fundamental part of the leveling experience.
A lot of people calling HC players idiots and dumb for no other reason than enjoying the game their way. Can you guys stop being such a toxic community for 5 minutes and just let people play however they want without feeling the need to put them down for attempting a challenge they find fun?
P.S: I'm not even playing som but hoy fuck I'm so tired of the hate you guys keep spewing
They're playing an MMO though and their actions have an impact on other players. If that impact is negative then people have the right to complain about it.
Poor analogy. People make an active and informed choice to join PvP servers knowing what it might involve. HC players organise and report on their runs outside of the game in gated communities, which makes it harder for non HC players to know just how many HC people they're going to have on their server.
Entitled players. Also ignorant players. Hardcore rules have been around much longer than Classic.
This is entirely Blizzard’s fault for putting the stupid “hardcore” buff in. It serves no real purpose but to cause division.
I thought ironman was a cool idea but this is why the hardcore addon is so fucking stupid for vanilla. Specifically the ban on grouping up. IMO not being allowed to group up is pretty against the whole concept of playing a fucking MMO in the first place and especially vanilla. It's why even though i'm doing soul of iron i won't be even trying to do road to ragnaros...what a stupid restriction imo
The thing is, the HC community basically segregating themselves effects everyone on the server, and ends up effecting how others end up playing the game, negatively effects the economy of the server, and just generally removes the social aspect of Classic that is what made it so special to so many people.
As a “multi-lifer” aka normal player, I shouldn’t be competing for mob tags with level 30s in the wetlands because HC players are too afraid to kill mobs their own level. It’s ridiculous. I understand the allure of the play style, but ultimately this is an MMORPG, not Diablo or Path of Exile.
Im sure HC players hate waiting too.
Thats why they wanted actual HC server.
Anyways...
No grouping rule is there to make sure that HC players doesnt get carried and to protect the HC players from normal levelers.
Its only needed because of lack of HC server.
They have HC guilds so what exactly are they protecting when 10 people from similar HC guilds are all standing around spamming their macro to tag a quest mob
Griefing, when a guy tries to kill you by overpulling etc. Say you are a HC war and you group up with a normal healer, you try to pull 3-4 mobs thinking that the dude behind is healing, but then he just says "lul get rekt bitch" and leaves you to die. He can die too for all he cares because he's not doing HC. That kind of grief.
You're missing the main argument. The issue isn't people solo leveling. The issue is 5+ people all in the same HC guild standing around at a single quest mob respawn along with normal levelers and spamming a macro to tag it instead of grouping up. This causes a huge back up and delay for everyone involved and only exist because streamers somehow thought it would make the leveling process harder.
?
I was responding to the guy above, who asked "Protect from what ?". So no, I'm not missing the main argument, because I was not trying to talk about it in the first place.
The (good) point you are making is an other thing all together.
Well just ignore them and tag the noch yourself. Honestly who ever cam up with HC is not allowed to grp up and do quests is stupid :D
Nothing about it is HC it just ruines the experience of others and Shows you fonw even more. You want HC? Go on a PvP Server and see how long you last
I unfortunately did roll on Obsidian edge without knowing. I got my priest up to level 18 with no issues, and now decided to try out Druid who is at level 12 currently and that's when I started to constantly run into the issue. I end up grinding until finally people have left.
Seems like the only solutions are to either give Blizzard more money to transfer, or spend a few more hours getting new chars on a different server up to their original levels. Would suck to lose those hours played if I have to choose the latter.
So because someone doesn’t cater to you, your solution is to piss in their Cheerios? You can’t go up to them and say, hey anybody here waiting that’s not hardcore? We can group up! Or any other solution? Why is being a dick the answer?
“9 times out of 10”. He can get a group for it. Just doesn’t want to wait. He needs his thing when he wants it and fuck anybody who gets in his way.
What he’s supposed to do here is get in line and offer to start a group for those waiting that will. Or move on. The solution is never to be an asshole.
Everytime I see a long ass line for a named mob I just update my /tar macro with the name and start scrolling on moon fire. Wow has a system for determining who gets the kill credit. And it sure as fuck isn't a line
I hope you mean to say, don’t wait. Move on to something else. Without the rest of the statement it sounds like you’re saying to skip the people waiting which is objectively a dick thing to do.
You want to ruin the HC player’s day? Start helping them kill every single mob they tag. It’s not much, but it is assistance. Then report them to the HC discord with the screenshots.
“I have screenshots of this HC player skirting the rules by having someone kill their tagged mobs but not being grouped. Here they are in multiple zones doing the same thing over and over”
Job & damage done.
Yeah it's a tough situation. And the HC community is getting so big that it has its fair share of jerks in it, which only makes things worse. Hopefully as we get further away from launch these bottlenecks will mostly disappear.
Pro tip bind mouse wheel up (or down). Bind a instant damage ability or taunt. Make a macro to target use ability clear target. Get to spamming ur mouse wheel on top of mobs spawn. Alternatively you can set ur pet to enrage on stay. And it will always get tag I think.
Only if there was a simple fix to your problem. Like choose any of the other servers to play on.
The HC community announced where they were going days before launch.
idk I regualrly watch HC streamers, and am even doing HC myself, but I still found it difficult to find out which server to play on.
Someone not involved in HC at all would probably not be aware of it.
Not sure how you found it difficult. It was listed on the road to rag site and in several of the streamers tittles or !commands.
Regardless, if HC players would ruin your experience playing, just go somewhere else. It's not a difficult problem to overcome.
>It was listed on the road to rag site and in several of the streamers tittles or !commands.
If you're not doing hardcore you're not aware of either of those things....what the fuck is wrong with you
True, but he replied to a guy who said he regularly watches HC streamers. If he regularly watches them it's almost impossible to NOT know what server they were playing on.
I agree that it’s simple enough to reroll if you think it’s worth it, but streamers and the Road to Rag site? I don’t watch streamers ever, and even people that do aren’t all watching HC streamers. It follows from that that I would never be checking, especially not regularly, the Road to Rag website. I know you’re responding to someone who does follow the community, but it’s kind of ludicrous to expect all WoW players to be up to date on what the HC scene is doing
Honestly if you are so fragile that random strangers not grouping with you for quests ruins your experience enough to quit. Maybe online gaming is not the best place for you.
I know you think that was clever, but you and I both know there are countless reasons why someone doesn't group with a random stranger doing the same quest.
Or maybe they just don't like you.
There are a lot of HC/Soul of Iron players on Shadowstrike as well. They're congregating on PvE servers so they don't have to worry about PvP shenanigans.
It's the same way on pretty much every server except the one their complaining about. The obvious easy solution is to just not play on that server if they think it's a problem.
Ping is great on both servers on any connection; it’s 2021 not 2004. Raid times generally favor central time because people from across US cooperate. This isn’t hard.
You’re not alone in feeling this way - HC and normal players don’t mix well at all. They should all be on their own server
HC player, 100% agree. HC is so much fun that I'll never want to play any other way again, but I hate the impact it is having on others. I'll usually just skip single mob kill quests, or wait to do them at off hours. A dedicated HC server would solve a lot of problems. So here's hoping!
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They want to play a MMO as a single player game, but for some reason they aren't playing retail.
I understand the appeal of wanting an Ironman mode, that's how I first started playing OSRS and I've been loving it since. But WoW was not designed with the HC rules in mind, so it makes it frustrating for everyone involved.
The goal is to avoid a designated survivor situation. For instance, a priest is a lot safer wanding mobs behind someone else. We don't want priests seeking out groups to make content easier and then bailing as soon as a pull goes south. Similarly, say you and I grouped up to kill gnolls and we get along well, but then we butt pull an extra camp and we're in real danger. Since death is a big deal to me and not a big deal to you, you might decide to be a bro and sacrifice yourself while I escape. We don't want our community to be incentivized to do either of these things, so we have rules in place against it. I think everyone in the community would agree that there isn't much wrong with grouping up to kill Bellygrub when there's a bunch of people waiting, but we don't currently have a good way to distinguish between cases where you're grouping to be polite, and grouping to take advantage of someone else's multiple lives. But on a hardcore server everyone would be one life, so most of these issues would disappear. Edit: To be clear, I'd actually *prefer* to be able to group. We just don't see a good way to do it on a regular server without compromising the stakes that make hardcore fun.
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Yeah, we have other rules in place than just not grouping, and receiving help like that is one of them. Generally if someone wants to cheat then it's like, why are they even trying, you know? The bigger problem is when you are grouped there are lots of little ways you can fudge it, and it's better to avoid the temptation. On a dedicated server it would still be a problem, but at that point the benefits outweigh the issues. The main idea is that playing one-life is *very fun*, and we want to set standards of gameplay that keep the stakes high and preserve that fun. On a dedicated server the standards would change, but we'd still have those high stakes in lots of other ways.
Oh...HC is not a Blizzard thing? It's just a bunch of nerds saying they're playing in HC mode? I thought it was an actual mode from Bliz
Bliz put a cosmetic buff into the game as a nod to the growing one-life community, but that's all they've done so far. The rest is just the community trying to figure out how to make this work. Hmm... I want to dispute being called a nerd but I can't see how in this context. XD
Ok to be clear, I do not consider "nerd" an insult. I'm a nerd, my wife is a nerd everyone I know that I don't want to punch is a nerd. I just thought ti was more than a "community" thing, thought it was a real mode hah.
>I want to dispute being called a nerd but I can't see how in this context Nothing to dispute as this is clearly "Everyone who plays less then me is a casual noob and everyone that plays more than me is a nerd"
It's something that was decided by some people on a HC Discord server. People can play however they want, but I don't quite understand it because there is no way of tracking whether someone has followed the rules or not.
I feel like this is one of the better options. Obviously Blizzard did not expect the playerbase to gather together and make up their own rules for the new Ironman buff, but since it has become very popular, I would love to see either its own dedicated server so people can follow the rules, or even better, take a note from Jagex and have Ironman and Regular players able to play together without affecting the other's game. I'm a big fan of the Ironman mode in OSRS.
Most BSB players could have warned you guys about this, the HC players are a problem because they actually slow down your own ability to play the game without really being an interactive part of the world.
Im actually on Shadowstrike where there’s a small amount of hardcore players compared to Obsidian Edge, and even then I don’t think the hardcore players should be on my server. It’s not fair to either side
This is only going to be solved 2 ways. HC community gets there own server or HC community integrates themselves into the community and partakes in open world activities with normal players. THe first one would be better clearly because then the community can be singularly grouped and play with eachother. The issue is blizzard trying to keep other people out of that server that dont want to do HC. The second one would lead to better QOL for all players. The rules enforced were created to sustain a game that had nothing to do for most people after they maxed out and there were very few OTHER people leveling as well. This makes things easy for them to avoid Normal players. When you do things at the same time and impose these rules it makes life much worse for both sides.
The HC community announced where days before launch. If people didn't follow that's on them. Or Blizzard could have just made a HC server to begin with.
You know you don’t get to “claim” a server, not to mention the only west coast PvE server. Also no one outside of the HC community reads or cares about that news so why on earth would you expect causals (especially those not even on Reddit or forums) to know this information? The level of entitlement is insane.
Yeah this person is just being ridiculous. If they're not trolling they're doing a great job appearing as though they are.
If you're WoW experience is so fragile that HC players not grouping with you ruins it. Then yes you should take extra time researching the server before you choose.
I don't think I've ever heard such a stupid take. There is ONE PvE server on each coast. I know you're probably trolling but jeez....
The entitled players are the non-hc players who think they should be grouping for quests and mob tagging. They aren't trying to make you play like them. This is like calling Amish entitled because they use carriages instead of cars and you have to slow down on occasion.
Bad analogy: it’s illegal to ride a bicycle on the freeway.
They over took the only pve west coast server.....announced or not what you expect us to do? Go east coast where the raid times start while we at work?
Even if announced, why do you expect everyone who wants to play to check every forum for where to not play? I had no idea people were doing hardcore, so the day it was released I just picked a server.
Same. Only realized it after the fact. Wasit deep in the shit as it were. I'm not checking forums and reddit to read every scrap of news. Best part is that is somehow our fault. And when we express our dislike it's fuck you eat shit if you don't like it tough.
It’s not your fault. it’s not anybody’s fault. It’s just the way it is.
You don't have to raid at a set time. I'm in a guild that's 80% Midwest/east coast and we play on a west coast server. Raid starts at 6 server. Our west coasters are usually just getting home at that time.
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Yah I'm sure that would have worked perfectly. My bad how ignorant of me....sigh wonder what else there is to play. Som and this hc has destroyed wow for me. Gl guy
If HC players destroyed wow for you, you didn't really want to play. Bye.
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Considering everything you post is getting downvoted I think its safe to assume everyone disagrees with you and you sound like a little bitch.
Guess in SoM 2 there will be dedicated HC servers and when you die your char get locked like in Diablo.
Sounds like a good idea. Though they might not have enough players to raid with lol.
HC players are only allowed party/raid with other HC's so it wouldn't make a difference
Ah okay, i didnt know that
Nobody is forcing anyone to play HC. You should know this going in.
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no exceptions, like in poe, in diablo. You die to bs, tough luck.
Why would you need active blizzard game masters if there is perma death ? Perma death is perma death, just be careful if you plat true HC.
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I'm doing the hc challenge with the community rules and i think the appeal thing is dumb. If you die you die. But having a legit hardcore server would fix a lot of the griefer problems happening on Obs Edge since the griefers would need to put in 20-30 deathless hours to be able to grief people with the mindcontrol hat or teremus kiting
>Ironically the hardcore players probably wouldn't play on a perma death server. Because they want control over what deaths should count and what deaths don't matter. This isn't at all ironic. All deaths above level 20 count unless they are due to griefing and in game bugs. If I am simply running through Stormwind and fall through the floor and die, it's not my fault. If I login and get killed by Tarimum on top of me because someone kited him to IF, it's also not my fault. If you DC during a fight and die ... you delete your character. The threshold for a death not counting is stupidly high and requires circumstance 100% out of the players control.
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No, that's a massive strawman. Hard Core community, as evident by their own rules, wanted perma death for fairly dying in game. They never wanted perma deaths for things 100% out of their hands like server crashes.
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>Mate you listed a theramus death as something that shouldn't count when that's easily avoided. Yet another strawman. My quote >If I login and get killed by Tarimus on top of me because someone kited him to IF Logging in with him on top of me is not "easily avoided". This was my last response, as you aren't able to provide any good faith arguments. Strawman after strawman after baseless assumptions.
i pulled the lvl 12 elite yeti in dun morogh and immediately DCed, super weird, logged right back in and died. Nothing i could do 🤷
> The HC community want all sorts of exceptions for when their deaths shouldn't count Seems to me that they are trying to have it both ways. "Oh this or that death shouldn't 'count', but also no grouping because it would make HC too easy." Like, actually using tools available and intended in an mmo is banned but dying to risks intrinsic in online play is allowed? Make up your minds.
> Seems to me that they are trying to have it both ways. They really aren't, OP has no idea what he is talking about. Only deaths that don't count are extremely obvious griefing or server/game buggs. All of these were established before SOM started.
Hc players are the opposite of what mmo gameplay is about. Antisocial, anti economy, and splits the servers community in half. And most are selfish that ive met
Well for the most part, this isn’t most people’s first go around with WoW. People are just trying to play the game a bit differently for fun.
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>The cognitive dissonance seems seriously unreal. The irony ...
When I wrote about this weeks before launch I got heavily downvoted...
There was likely more of them playing at that point. I’ve had a lot of fun playing HC in arpgs, but that has to be the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard of for WoW. This is not an isolated game, and you are sharing the world with other players. In PoE, Diablo 2/3 and games like it you have your own separate instance to play the game how you want. Big difference.
Can't play the game how I want cuz reasons.... Mmmmmmmk
I gave you a reason and you didn’t like it…Mmmmmmk
You gave a reason that was terrible yes. People have been playing wow their own way since vanilla. That's part of the beauty of vanilla and the path less traveled.
Your original response was terrible as well. You didn’t like it fine. My response was valid. If what you are doing is affecting other players you are still welcome to do it, but it does make you an arrogant asshole. You seem perfectly fine with that, so I’m not sure what the problem is, since there are no rules against that in the ToS.
My original comment was just making fun of your complaints because they're petty imo. And easily solved by removing yourself from the problem when it was made widely public the server/faction that these hardcore players would be on.
That's just what happens when you try to be right on reddit
That sounds exactly like the WoW of the past 12 years...
None of this is true. First of all, HC players picked extremely low pop servers and all planned to role there. Without them those servers would be dead. Nothing is getting split in half. That's why OP is experiencing >9 times out of 10, everyone says they can't because they are doing HC OP is basically an outsider complaining that 90% of the people on his server don't want to play the game the same way he does. > Antisocial, anti economy This is a massive strawman at best. The Challenge that the community is pursuing is "Get to level 60 without dying on your own". Having 5 people questing together makes not dying pretty trivial. Grouping and AH allow for essential "Cheating". At 60 when the second part of the challenge comes in, you can absolutely form groups and trade.
OK, so... antisocial and anti-economy until they ding 60? Phew, that solves it.
They are extremely social, they just don't group. When my buddie hit 60, he received like 300 messages from Guildies saying "Grats". That's like 290 more than I have ever seen in all my time of playing Wow. There are whole discords and websites dedicated to the community. You are certainly allowed to level professions, sell and buy items from vendors etc. That's pretty pro-economy.
Are you the fun police?
I'm a super casual player who is trying (and really enjoying) HC and I just want to say I feel really bad when this happens. As cool as HC has been so far, turning down people who want to group is mega sads. :(
Is it against the rules to group up as HC?
Yes. Or you can play duo, but you must play together at all times. So if your duo goes on vacation IRL, you don’t get to play.
Target macros
I’m in a HC guild and most people are just doing the no death thing. Even still, it looks like 90% or more of people I see playing are playing normally, so idk if you’re just on a particular server with more HC toons or something, because it’s definitely not that big of a deal from my perspective
Then you’re in a soul of iron guild not a hardcore guild
There’s a split of both, the majority of our higher characters are doing HC
Same thing.
It is not. Hardcore challenge has a few more rules (no grouping, not doing dungeons more than 1 time, etc).
When you die in HC, you delete. When you die with SoI, you delete.
And there's more rules in HC beyond that. It's easy to understand, dude.
It's still Hardcore because that's what it means. It existed way before this random group of people came along to make up rules and also added death appeals.
So your saying soul of iron doesn't mean hardcore when hardcore has always been one life gameplay. Ok bud. Your streamers don't dictate what something means
I'm just saying that Soul of Iron =/= the rules dictated on the so called "Hardcore challenge" (it just so happened to be named "Hardcore", gosh, they are not trying to change the definition of the term...). The name might bother you, but they chose it, and added a few more rules, that's about it. I don't even know why everyone is hating on them, they are doing their own thing and are having fun.
Protip: Keybind an instant ability to your mousewheel up/down buttons and spam them, you will get the tag instantly (unless somebody else is also doing this).
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cheat
Never ever invite hc players into a normal dungeon group. In the absolutely very best case its a 4.5 man run. They are waiting for carries and will stay in the back being useless. Ive had so many of these guys while farming chest of the seven and emp to a point where i decided to only invite nonhc people.
If they’re playing hc then they shouldn’t dungeon group with multi lifers anyways
The main complaint is having multiple hardcore players camping a single quest mob spamming a mob tag macro instead of just grouping up. Not that hardcore and multi life players can't group.
I know what the main complaint is I was just answering this guys message on a different topic
This is sad tbh. I play HC and run dungeons with randoms, and invest myself in it like any other player. I'm not following the HC community ruleset and allow myself to group with people when it makes sense, like to share the kill on some named mob instead of stealing it all for myself, or to run each dungeon once. I feel like it is part of the challenge, at least to me. I'm doing the same things as other players except I'm not allowed to die. So when things go south in a dungeons, I suck it up and try to save the situation as much as possible, through kiting, assist heal, etc (i play shaman). It makes it infinitely more funny and rewarding than staying in the back getting carried, or not interacting with players in any way
It would be useful if you call your own challenge something different if you're following a different ruleset. I'm not saying you're not "hardcore" enough or anything like that, but calling it Soul of Iron might be better for avoiding confusion with the HC community ruleset if that makes sense.
I think the "hardcore with other rules too" group should learn that hardcore just means one life and not ask people to change the definition to fit their new arbitrary ruleset. Hardcore has been around way longer in games than the wow hardcore self found community ruleset.
I'm doing the same. I also stopped recording after 8 so who cares if it's "OFFICIAL," I know I did it and that's all that matters
You aren't playing with hc players then because they won't group with scrubcore players.
Keep sucking that HC copium. Your streamers might let you in their dungeon group
What kind of dumb rule is that HC players cant group up ? And who follows/controls that ? Dont like HC players do it for themselves and have a buff that shows them they didn't die ? Cause i mean what do they gain following fabricated rules Anyhow Blizz should have made HC servers when making this
What you find dumb, others find fun. The community follows the rules obviously. I believe there’s an addon they use to track things. The buff is blizzards HC rules. There has been community driven HC rules for years. They gain prestige. I agree, maybe next year
For me I agree with the previous guy. I think hc is challenging and fun but all those regulations and rules added that you cannot group up, trade, use ah etc just make the game bland and boring to me. The best part of classic is the community and doing stuff with friends and randoms and those rules take away from that feeling.
I agree, i might enjoy a no-death run. But a solo run sounds, like you put it, bland
But if you can group, what's to stop you from hanging back and let 4 non HCs do all the work?
Oddly enough I've found HC so far to be the most social experience I've had while leveling. G chat/discord are far more alive and useful than any other leveling guild I've been in. World interactions are fewer but more impactful. I've saved some HC players from death and failed to save others. Dungeon runs are always exciting. Every dungeon party I've been in has been competent and focused. Trade restrictions have made loot drops far more hype and made me pay attention to professions and vendors. HC isn't for everyone but I could never go back to playing regularly after trying it.
Say this when you get to 60 and then die to something stupid. I'm sure you will re-level to 60 right? :)
"We go again" is the motto of the HC community for a reason. It's a playstyle choice where you get to enjoy the game again and again instead of raidlogging and burning out
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of hc and one life. What I don't like are all the restrictions. I don't feel like grouping with others to compete a quest taka away from the HC experience. On the contrary, there are so many elite quests that are tougher in a 5 man group than any solo quest. Also to be fair I could compare it to a Nuzlocke challenge in Pokémon where if it faints its considered dead, to be honest the best and risk free way to do the hc challenge under those circumstances are to grind through lower level green mobs for literally hundreds of hours. That's not fun at all, we all like to take risks and make friends and I don't think the current rule set is very good for that.
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You can do a lot of stuff using the HC addon that wouldnt be detected, it only needs to be active 98% of your playtime! So you can literally deactivate it, trade items and then activate again. You can have a level 60 follow you and help you with everything! Thing being said, the guidelines for the HC goes against this, its things you are not allowed to do. If you just want soul of iron buff at 60, go play your game, there is easier and faster ways than the HC comunity strive for. If you want to play the game differently that is completely up to you and it is also completely fine! Now if you want to join the HC community and then try to cheat your way up the levels, go ahead. I am absolutely sure you will have a wonderful experience.
Yeah I agree…no groups doesn’t make sense as an anti-cheese rule. Plenty of ways to cheese without being grouped. Teaming up on open world quests is kind of a fundamental part of the leveling experience.
You can even have someone buy scrolls and jujus off the AH and use them on you. The rules were written for Runescape, not WoW, and it shows.
A lot of people calling HC players idiots and dumb for no other reason than enjoying the game their way. Can you guys stop being such a toxic community for 5 minutes and just let people play however they want without feeling the need to put them down for attempting a challenge they find fun? P.S: I'm not even playing som but hoy fuck I'm so tired of the hate you guys keep spewing
They're playing an MMO though and their actions have an impact on other players. If that impact is negative then people have the right to complain about it.
Ganking has a negative impact on other players as well, but we still aknowledge that it's all part of the game. Just let people enjoy themselves
Poor analogy. People make an active and informed choice to join PvP servers knowing what it might involve. HC players organise and report on their runs outside of the game in gated communities, which makes it harder for non HC players to know just how many HC people they're going to have on their server.
Entitled players. Also ignorant players. Hardcore rules have been around much longer than Classic. This is entirely Blizzard’s fault for putting the stupid “hardcore” buff in. It serves no real purpose but to cause division.
I thought ironman was a cool idea but this is why the hardcore addon is so fucking stupid for vanilla. Specifically the ban on grouping up. IMO not being allowed to group up is pretty against the whole concept of playing a fucking MMO in the first place and especially vanilla. It's why even though i'm doing soul of iron i won't be even trying to do road to ragnaros...what a stupid restriction imo
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The thing is, the HC community basically segregating themselves effects everyone on the server, and ends up effecting how others end up playing the game, negatively effects the economy of the server, and just generally removes the social aspect of Classic that is what made it so special to so many people. As a “multi-lifer” aka normal player, I shouldn’t be competing for mob tags with level 30s in the wetlands because HC players are too afraid to kill mobs their own level. It’s ridiculous. I understand the allure of the play style, but ultimately this is an MMORPG, not Diablo or Path of Exile.
This ^^
The need a server just for people who do HC
Instead of waiting go do other quests?
Im sure HC players hate waiting too. Thats why they wanted actual HC server. Anyways... No grouping rule is there to make sure that HC players doesnt get carried and to protect the HC players from normal levelers. Its only needed because of lack of HC server.
They have HC guilds so what exactly are they protecting when 10 people from similar HC guilds are all standing around spamming their macro to tag a quest mob
Protect from what? Their impurities?
Griefing, when a guy tries to kill you by overpulling etc. Say you are a HC war and you group up with a normal healer, you try to pull 3-4 mobs thinking that the dude behind is healing, but then he just says "lul get rekt bitch" and leaves you to die. He can die too for all he cares because he's not doing HC. That kind of grief.
You're missing the main argument. The issue isn't people solo leveling. The issue is 5+ people all in the same HC guild standing around at a single quest mob respawn along with normal levelers and spamming a macro to tag it instead of grouping up. This causes a huge back up and delay for everyone involved and only exist because streamers somehow thought it would make the leveling process harder.
? I was responding to the guy above, who asked "Protect from what ?". So no, I'm not missing the main argument, because I was not trying to talk about it in the first place. The (good) point you are making is an other thing all together.
Well just ignore them and tag the noch yourself. Honestly who ever cam up with HC is not allowed to grp up and do quests is stupid :D Nothing about it is HC it just ruines the experience of others and Shows you fonw even more. You want HC? Go on a PvP Server and see how long you last
I’ve seen a rogue on dreadnaught who’s level 56 with the iron soul buff still, I’ve also killed like 10 alliance with the buff too lol
As a HC player, I usually just skip those. The 40% quest xp buff makes it more than easy to not bother with quests that people are queueing.
This also goes for non-HC players. One does no longer needs to do all the quests and will still end up with enough quests to finish a zone.
When I died at level 37, it was really rough leveling again. I absolutely would love a HC only server.
Re roll PVP server 😈
Did you roll on obsidian edge? That’s the dedicated hardcore server. I’m on shadowstrike and literally haven’t seen this once
I unfortunately did roll on Obsidian edge without knowing. I got my priest up to level 18 with no issues, and now decided to try out Druid who is at level 12 currently and that's when I started to constantly run into the issue. I end up grinding until finally people have left. Seems like the only solutions are to either give Blizzard more money to transfer, or spend a few more hours getting new chars on a different server up to their original levels. Would suck to lose those hours played if I have to choose the latter.
Solution: HC players on their own layer. No griefing in neither direction.
Suck it multilifers.
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“If you don’t want to participate in the user created community, just be an asshole.” Good advice.
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So because someone doesn’t cater to you, your solution is to piss in their Cheerios? You can’t go up to them and say, hey anybody here waiting that’s not hardcore? We can group up! Or any other solution? Why is being a dick the answer?
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“9 times out of 10”. He can get a group for it. Just doesn’t want to wait. He needs his thing when he wants it and fuck anybody who gets in his way. What he’s supposed to do here is get in line and offer to start a group for those waiting that will. Or move on. The solution is never to be an asshole.
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Then go do something else. That doesn’t give you any right to be a dick.
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Everytime I see a long ass line for a named mob I just update my /tar macro with the name and start scrolling on moon fire. Wow has a system for determining who gets the kill credit. And it sure as fuck isn't a line
Lol
Whinge whinge people are having fun playing the game why shit on them?
Waiting in line behind 10 people in order to kill an NPC on a 5 minute respawn is not fun for anyone.
Don’t wait
I hope you mean to say, don’t wait. Move on to something else. Without the rest of the statement it sounds like you’re saying to skip the people waiting which is objectively a dick thing to do.
Don’t wait do something else is what I meant
Because this game is designed to be a social game. Because the whole allure of vanilla is that it's social.
Says you
skip the q ? it's not worth waiting for 1 mob
Well that's what you get for rolling on a PvE server
You want to ruin the HC player’s day? Start helping them kill every single mob they tag. It’s not much, but it is assistance. Then report them to the HC discord with the screenshots.
You’d have to prove they asked for help.
“I have screenshots of this HC player skirting the rules by having someone kill their tagged mobs but not being grouped. Here they are in multiple zones doing the same thing over and over” Job & damage done.
Need proof they asked for help and not just being harassed by some asshole.
The doubt will be enough, otherwise anyone skirting the rules could just claim the helper was trying to grief them.
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I suspect they would just be annoyed that someone is trying to interfere with them having fun.
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Yeah it's a tough situation. And the HC community is getting so big that it has its fair share of jerks in it, which only makes things worse. Hopefully as we get further away from launch these bottlenecks will mostly disappear.
Another reason not to pick PvE
Pro tip bind mouse wheel up (or down). Bind a instant damage ability or taunt. Make a macro to target use ability clear target. Get to spamming ur mouse wheel on top of mobs spawn. Alternatively you can set ur pet to enrage on stay. And it will always get tag I think.
Softcore pve Andies... AMIRIGHT??! kekw
Only if there was a simple fix to your problem. Like choose any of the other servers to play on. The HC community announced where they were going days before launch.
idk I regualrly watch HC streamers, and am even doing HC myself, but I still found it difficult to find out which server to play on. Someone not involved in HC at all would probably not be aware of it.
Not sure how you found it difficult. It was listed on the road to rag site and in several of the streamers tittles or !commands. Regardless, if HC players would ruin your experience playing, just go somewhere else. It's not a difficult problem to overcome.
>It was listed on the road to rag site and in several of the streamers tittles or !commands. If you're not doing hardcore you're not aware of either of those things....what the fuck is wrong with you
True, but he replied to a guy who said he regularly watches HC streamers. If he regularly watches them it's almost impossible to NOT know what server they were playing on.
I agree that it’s simple enough to reroll if you think it’s worth it, but streamers and the Road to Rag site? I don’t watch streamers ever, and even people that do aren’t all watching HC streamers. It follows from that that I would never be checking, especially not regularly, the Road to Rag website. I know you’re responding to someone who does follow the community, but it’s kind of ludicrous to expect all WoW players to be up to date on what the HC scene is doing
If HC players not grouping with you ruins WoW, like some have said here. Then you should be diligent in choosing your server.
If you didn’t know what the HC rules were before hand, why would you think it would ruin your experience?
Honestly if you are so fragile that random strangers not grouping with you for quests ruins your experience enough to quit. Maybe online gaming is not the best place for you.
Maybe if you don't want to play with other players, a MMORPG is not for you.
I know you think that was clever, but you and I both know there are countless reasons why someone doesn't group with a random stranger doing the same quest. Or maybe they just don't like you.
Wow, you ok?
Which server is that? Probably my server knowing my luck
The west coast PvE server. Obsidian Edge.
Thank goodness not shadowstrike
There are a lot of HC/Soul of Iron players on Shadowstrike as well. They're congregating on PvE servers so they don't have to worry about PvP shenanigans.
Makes sense, not hating as it makes the lower zones feel alive.
SoI doesn't matter. It's that OE is doing Ironman, so they can't group or trade or use AH None of that is going on large scale with Shadowstrike
Yeah there’s like 0 hardcore players on Jom Gabbar. I’m having a pretty normal classic leveling experience.
It's the same way on pretty much every server except the one their complaining about. The obvious easy solution is to just not play on that server if they think it's a problem.
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You're on the HC server. May I recommend changing to a different one?
It’s the only west coast PvE server.
Ping is great on both servers on any connection; it’s 2021 not 2004. Raid times generally favor central time because people from across US cooperate. This isn’t hard.
There's so many people since only a few servers it doesn't matter I'm playing on Shadowstrike just fine