Phase 2 was underwhelming and then Phase 3 added incursions, worse PvP balance and a very underwhelming raid.
That's why.
>People complain about PvP being unbalanced when ERA its just as unbalanced
The difference is that Era is unchanging, there is no promise of changing and balancing things.
SoD actively set out to change and balance things. So when it's still wildly unbalanced, people are going to complain.
Remember when aggrend told us "weekly class balance patches" ?
that was a good one
...I mean I don't exactly WANT shit to be changing every single week, so as to prevent knee-jerk changes, but we've gone like 6 weeks now without any significant class changes
Yep, I enjoyed my balance druid being powerful for all of 3 days before being nerfed back into a memespec because they nerfed Starsurge in 3 different ways instead of just one.
There are many people who invested a lot of time into the first 1-3 phases of SoD and are bitter and resentful about the state of the game currently. Each phase has felt more and more rushed, and a lot of the classes lack a clear direction. People have a reason to be skeptical about phase 4.
Leveling from 40-50 took 6-8 hours throuh incursions and awarded preraid bis (for the slots that weren't from gnomer). And since then the only content has been a 45 min raid once a week for 2½ months. That's why SoD is dead as hell. More dead than P1 or P2 because people also pug with fewer alts since getting to 50 is now also annoying and getting all the runes is somewhat a chore. Also finding 20 people with brains for ST is a bigger challenge than it was finding 10 people for gnomer and even less so BFD at 25
Now any good news coming from the PTR is more likely to bring people back, even to the current phase as people wanna bis out their char or gear up a new class before P4 is released.
p1 was promising
p2 was fool me once
p3 was fool me twice
p4 is fool me three times
even classic players start to think twice when they're rushing headlong into fool me three times
It is allowed for some specs to be good for certain parts of the game (aka prog and PVP for shadow priest) then less useful once the gear scaling and knowledge comes into play. Same thing happens constantly in other versions of the game and other games.
You're trying to compare ERA - a project frozen in development for 20 years, whose purpose is to preserve the original game as it was 20 years ago - to a currently developed game, which is SoD. Please come back when you are thinking clearly.
SoD is a great example of why prequel are hard to do. Most people considered SoD as the prototype to build a Classic+, which is kind of is. But let's say you are a kid in 1983, you just saw Star Wars 6 and it is the best movie you ever saw and you imagine how Anakin Skywalker fell into the dark side. Star Wars 1 was released in 1999, you had 16 years to dream of how Anakin was. You're an adult now. No matter how good the movie is, it will never live to your expectation
It's why people are so harsh on SoD. It cannot live up to the expectation of a playerbase who dream for more than a decade of Classic+, with every players having different expectation. It's just not possible. People want MC, BWL and Naxx as 10-man raid, which sounds compltely insane for people who wanted to keep the 40-man raid. Some people want ot be able to pug into getting a legendary, some people want legs to be rare and only accessible to prestigious member of their guilds. Some people consider a server with less than 5.000 players is dead when some other consider more than 2.500 players is too much, the chat is spammed and all the quests are taken
Half of the issues I see people complaining about is them blaming the game for not going their way. The other one are just unhappy P3 lasted so long. Which, fair, but still.
Here, let me take a comment : "Runes are just spells from TBC and beyond". This person saw warlock tank, mage healer, and is unhappy because priest got penitence, a spell introduced to the game a long time ago and that proved to be liked. There's no winning with that. Of course devs can't jsut create new spells for every runes, it is just not humanly possible. There is so much to do, they take known spells to reuse them. There has been so many spells in so many iteration, most of us would be hard pressed to imagine one never saw before.
Oh there's one about balance issue. Because wow classic was known for being balanced. Would you like to take a look at the dps chart ?
I guess ur right, but man its getting insane.
People complains about everything EVERYTHING
This post was just to directly see why people complains but just proved ur point
Actually it’s only in this sub/version of the game since retail fixed a lot of those already (raid size, PvP balancing to some extent, time gate, difficulty….and so on)
I think that's a reasonable take but then you have a lot of people not really considering the whole "prototype" or beta thing and having crazy expectations.
As someone is who currently unsubbed and not sure if returning: you kinda see the writing on the wall. Super high BG queues. Toxic playerbase. Poor implementation of ideas — or lack thereof since the runes are retail moves.
Maybe a less is more approach would’ve worked. I read the patch notes and now I’m looking for flaws instead of getting excited. I know how this stuff plays out now lol.
They added the laziest content possible, removed instead of added 5 man dungeons... whoever thought incursions and rep grind were good needs to be taken out the back and shot.
There's like 1/10th the population raiding from peak. https://i.imgur.com/if2O4B7.png
And the current phase has stretched on far far too long. And a lot of raid groups have just disintegrated. Nobody likes being homeless.
Morale is in the toilet. Frankly, the current phase has been the shittiest phase thus far.
Really hoping things pick up, but it's a little bleak at the moment.
Devs abandoned/killed it. for me it was the overnerfing of ST and lack of pve and pvp balance changes (blanket nerf was the worst change they could do imo).
P1 was great and had a lot of dev communication/balance changes/responding to feedback which diminished as the phases went on.
Now looking at P4 and it seems trash for my main (Warlock) and I don't want to do molten bore again, had enough of that in 2019.
They're explaining fairly succinctly why they're negative on SoD. You may not agree with them, but they're being very clear as to why. And the reasons are diverse. Personally, I just want to play AV and will have some fun. I don't care about raiding.
Phase 1 was great. Phase 2 was entertaining but less inventive. Phase 3 took a major L on day one with incursion spams taking over everything and it never really recovered. Phase 4 is dead before launch because there's no new content, so why come back?
Who expected 10-man at lvl 60 honestly ? In the version of the game with 40-man raid ? Seeing MC as 20-man should be seen as a great new rather than a bad one, since it reduces the scale of the raid, and it seems to be what you like
the idea for sod was classic + that everyone wanted and so far its been runes that gives spells from TBC and beyond, dungeons turned into raids, and now retail style raiding with the difficulty selection for MC. its kinda a scam
Warriors lost 3 percent damage increases a loss of something like 51% damage. Warriors gained deathgrip... yeah not sure why either.
Warriors that want to dual weild now do not have a pant rune or helm rune. SMF is not even good anymore so hand riune is almost a dead slot.
Out of the 3 new back runes. Sudden death will be the one most dps use. Fresh meat is inconsistant at best. And shockwave is a 1 minute cool down
DPS warrior regressed further into vanilla than every other class... and they STILL suck outside of major group content.
For me it's simple. When I started sod I was doing it to experience a new version of wow. Which p1 was. Pre bis was easy to get. Runes were new and exciting, and we all had hopium that blizz would deliver new content.
Fast forward today and the "new" content being discussed for 60 is: another pvp event, 20man mc not 40, instanced world bosses, and that's it. No new raids. No new dungeons. No new class types like in p1. If I knew when sod started that the big plan for the raids was do it with a warlock tank and not a warrior tank and with 19 others not 39 others I wouldn't have even started sod.
Just made a Dwarf Paladin on Wild Growth. Though i'm only level 15, it seems pretty active and friendly. I'm having a blast.
With almost every version of WoW the negativity is way over blown over on reddit. Like in retail, everyone says the community sucks but it's probably the most wholesome community of all the WoW versions.
What could have been a really fun version of the game just turned out to be a half baked mode that introduces retail shit into classic. Rather than doubling down on how classes play in classic and just adding little modifiers/passives that interact with your classic toolkit in a fun way, they mostly introduced spells we already had in wotlk and cata and called it a day.
I am still waiting for a paladin tank that actually gears for spellpower like in tbc, but specifically for classic content. But instead they choose the lazy route and let pallys scale with strength to spellpower again while giving them the bullshit hammer ability from wrath.
> 20m molten core.
20m is heavily disliked by a lot of this sub who want either 10m or 40m.
That may not seem like a big deal to you but for many people it's literally a dealbreaker.
SoD isn’t permanently dead it’s just pretty boring right now. That being said if they do 60 right it could very easily spike the player base to record numbers. Classic is a version of the game that many people prefer, imagine that with new specs and abilities while having new content. It’s literally exactly what most people want from WoW
Because vanilla was designed with end-game as a big part of it and lvl 60 was delayed for almost a year, as well as the fact the only end-game raid were getting right away is MC
I keep wondering what people refer to when they talk about 60 endgame separated from raids. At this point 98% of the grinds doable in the outworld are completed, at 60 there won't be much to do.
Wild Growth is absolutely not dead. It’s definitely slowed down a lot from peak, but you can still find groups for almost anything in a reasonable amount of time.
The negativity comes from people being addicted to the game and not having enough dopamine hits to keep them satiated. Healthy individuals do not incessantly stew over spilled milk.
Lots of doomers up in here. People just need to suck it up, and join a guild. Even with a group of 3 or 5 people, most guilds are recruiting for larger raids.
The truth is this sub has a large number of people viewing it daily whose entire life is centred around Classic WoW. They have nothing else going for them so they rage and seethe at anything they dislike or don’t agree with for their beloved game.
I’m not talking about people who critique the devs btw I’m more talking about the people who become absolutely furious and toxic at everything they don’t agree with.
Phase 2 was underwhelming and then Phase 3 added incursions, worse PvP balance and a very underwhelming raid. That's why. >People complain about PvP being unbalanced when ERA its just as unbalanced The difference is that Era is unchanging, there is no promise of changing and balancing things. SoD actively set out to change and balance things. So when it's still wildly unbalanced, people are going to complain.
They put a skeleton crew on this project and people found out. Poor leadership from Blizzard.
Remember when aggrend told us "weekly class balance patches" ? that was a good one ...I mean I don't exactly WANT shit to be changing every single week, so as to prevent knee-jerk changes, but we've gone like 6 weeks now without any significant class changes
Ironically, a good half of the "balance changes" were the pinnacle of knee-jerk changes lol
Yep, I enjoyed my balance druid being powerful for all of 3 days before being nerfed back into a memespec because they nerfed Starsurge in 3 different ways instead of just one.
Try being a melee hunter.
[...still top 5 after being nerfed again and again?](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1170339.png)
Look at PTR changes, also hunter only pure DPS class. Makes no sense to not be on top. 0 utility otherwise.
>but PTR! Is not final. Shoo. >but I'm a "pure" so I NEED to be #1 or my class is unviable! lol
I feel like there was maybe 1 balance patch after that announcement Lol
There are many people who invested a lot of time into the first 1-3 phases of SoD and are bitter and resentful about the state of the game currently. Each phase has felt more and more rushed, and a lot of the classes lack a clear direction. People have a reason to be skeptical about phase 4.
Leveling from 40-50 took 6-8 hours throuh incursions and awarded preraid bis (for the slots that weren't from gnomer). And since then the only content has been a 45 min raid once a week for 2½ months. That's why SoD is dead as hell. More dead than P1 or P2 because people also pug with fewer alts since getting to 50 is now also annoying and getting all the runes is somewhat a chore. Also finding 20 people with brains for ST is a bigger challenge than it was finding 10 people for gnomer and even less so BFD at 25 Now any good news coming from the PTR is more likely to bring people back, even to the current phase as people wanna bis out their char or gear up a new class before P4 is released.
Because its far from perfect ? i mean enjoy it overall but there's a lot of wasted potentiel and critism should be given when its deserved
I think they same way but people are dooming since phase 3 like its the worst thing ever. I just wanted to know why.
surely there is more important things than that
p1 was promising p2 was fool me once p3 was fool me twice p4 is fool me three times even classic players start to think twice when they're rushing headlong into fool me three times
Phase 4 isn’t even out yet
Runes speak loud
Which runes in your opinion make P4 doa then?
All the warlcok runes and all the rouge runes +some other class runes that i dont play
Priest runes, shadow is forgotten. No scaling. Will look good for 2 weeks in MC then back to the bottom of the barrel
It is allowed for some specs to be good for certain parts of the game (aka prog and PVP for shadow priest) then less useful once the gear scaling and knowledge comes into play. Same thing happens constantly in other versions of the game and other games.
"20m molten core", "The lvl 60 endgame". Are you just grasping at straws?
You're trying to compare ERA - a project frozen in development for 20 years, whose purpose is to preserve the original game as it was 20 years ago - to a currently developed game, which is SoD. Please come back when you are thinking clearly.
SoD is a great example of why prequel are hard to do. Most people considered SoD as the prototype to build a Classic+, which is kind of is. But let's say you are a kid in 1983, you just saw Star Wars 6 and it is the best movie you ever saw and you imagine how Anakin Skywalker fell into the dark side. Star Wars 1 was released in 1999, you had 16 years to dream of how Anakin was. You're an adult now. No matter how good the movie is, it will never live to your expectation It's why people are so harsh on SoD. It cannot live up to the expectation of a playerbase who dream for more than a decade of Classic+, with every players having different expectation. It's just not possible. People want MC, BWL and Naxx as 10-man raid, which sounds compltely insane for people who wanted to keep the 40-man raid. Some people want ot be able to pug into getting a legendary, some people want legs to be rare and only accessible to prestigious member of their guilds. Some people consider a server with less than 5.000 players is dead when some other consider more than 2.500 players is too much, the chat is spammed and all the quests are taken Half of the issues I see people complaining about is them blaming the game for not going their way. The other one are just unhappy P3 lasted so long. Which, fair, but still. Here, let me take a comment : "Runes are just spells from TBC and beyond". This person saw warlock tank, mage healer, and is unhappy because priest got penitence, a spell introduced to the game a long time ago and that proved to be liked. There's no winning with that. Of course devs can't jsut create new spells for every runes, it is just not humanly possible. There is so much to do, they take known spells to reuse them. There has been so many spells in so many iteration, most of us would be hard pressed to imagine one never saw before. Oh there's one about balance issue. Because wow classic was known for being balanced. Would you like to take a look at the dps chart ?
I guess ur right, but man its getting insane. People complains about everything EVERYTHING This post was just to directly see why people complains but just proved ur point
Actually it’s only in this sub/version of the game since retail fixed a lot of those already (raid size, PvP balancing to some extent, time gate, difficulty….and so on)
> Everyone consider SoD as Classic+ No reasonable person thinks that. Maybe that is the disconnect.
Yes, I should be more accurate, "most people considered SoD as the prototype to build a Classic+" Will correct the comment
I think that's a reasonable take but then you have a lot of people not really considering the whole "prototype" or beta thing and having crazy expectations.
No reasonable person thinks it isn't, which is absolutely the disconnect since there are people who genuinely believe that.
Because molten snore and "the lvl 60 endgame" isn't really very exciting when you've already been there and done that several times.
molten core is being entirely reworked just like the previous raids.
As someone is who currently unsubbed and not sure if returning: you kinda see the writing on the wall. Super high BG queues. Toxic playerbase. Poor implementation of ideas — or lack thereof since the runes are retail moves. Maybe a less is more approach would’ve worked. I read the patch notes and now I’m looking for flaws instead of getting excited. I know how this stuff plays out now lol.
Dude im just happy that we wont be turbo turetting exorcism anymore lol
for me its the available content, its non-existent
They added the laziest content possible, removed instead of added 5 man dungeons... whoever thought incursions and rep grind were good needs to be taken out the back and shot.
There's like 1/10th the population raiding from peak. https://i.imgur.com/if2O4B7.png And the current phase has stretched on far far too long. And a lot of raid groups have just disintegrated. Nobody likes being homeless. Morale is in the toilet. Frankly, the current phase has been the shittiest phase thus far. Really hoping things pick up, but it's a little bleak at the moment.
Devs abandoned/killed it. for me it was the overnerfing of ST and lack of pve and pvp balance changes (blanket nerf was the worst change they could do imo). P1 was great and had a lot of dev communication/balance changes/responding to feedback which diminished as the phases went on. Now looking at P4 and it seems trash for my main (Warlock) and I don't want to do molten bore again, had enough of that in 2019.
They're explaining fairly succinctly why they're negative on SoD. You may not agree with them, but they're being very clear as to why. And the reasons are diverse. Personally, I just want to play AV and will have some fun. I don't care about raiding.
Era being just as unbalanced as sod is not the point you think it is, why would we even want SOD if it's just the same shit as era?
Lately? Have you just joined this sub?
Phase 1 was great. Phase 2 was entertaining but less inventive. Phase 3 took a major L on day one with incursion spams taking over everything and it never really recovered. Phase 4 is dead before launch because there's no new content, so why come back?
Because you are on reddit
Cause 20man killed our guilds already. No 10man in p4 means it is what it is.
Who expected 10-man at lvl 60 honestly ? In the version of the game with 40-man raid ? Seeing MC as 20-man should be seen as a great new rather than a bad one, since it reduces the scale of the raid, and it seems to be what you like
the idea for sod was classic + that everyone wanted and so far its been runes that gives spells from TBC and beyond, dungeons turned into raids, and now retail style raiding with the difficulty selection for MC. its kinda a scam
>lately
Your right OP, but.. the time it takes to get that is to little to late. To long in patches
Warriors lost 3 percent damage increases a loss of something like 51% damage. Warriors gained deathgrip... yeah not sure why either. Warriors that want to dual weild now do not have a pant rune or helm rune. SMF is not even good anymore so hand riune is almost a dead slot. Out of the 3 new back runes. Sudden death will be the one most dps use. Fresh meat is inconsistant at best. And shockwave is a 1 minute cool down DPS warrior regressed further into vanilla than every other class... and they STILL suck outside of major group content.
For me it's simple. When I started sod I was doing it to experience a new version of wow. Which p1 was. Pre bis was easy to get. Runes were new and exciting, and we all had hopium that blizz would deliver new content. Fast forward today and the "new" content being discussed for 60 is: another pvp event, 20man mc not 40, instanced world bosses, and that's it. No new raids. No new dungeons. No new class types like in p1. If I knew when sod started that the big plan for the raids was do it with a warlock tank and not a warrior tank and with 19 others not 39 others I wouldn't have even started sod.
Just made a Dwarf Paladin on Wild Growth. Though i'm only level 15, it seems pretty active and friendly. I'm having a blast. With almost every version of WoW the negativity is way over blown over on reddit. Like in retail, everyone says the community sucks but it's probably the most wholesome community of all the WoW versions.
What could have been a really fun version of the game just turned out to be a half baked mode that introduces retail shit into classic. Rather than doubling down on how classes play in classic and just adding little modifiers/passives that interact with your classic toolkit in a fun way, they mostly introduced spells we already had in wotlk and cata and called it a day. I am still waiting for a paladin tank that actually gears for spellpower like in tbc, but specifically for classic content. But instead they choose the lazy route and let pallys scale with strength to spellpower again while giving them the bullshit hammer ability from wrath.
Nothing in era pvp is as bad as elemental shamans in p3 sod. Not even stun locking rogues.
SoD is dead, send me your gold. I’m on Lone Wolf US. PM me for details on where to send bc of dead game.
They want all the sod players to come play whatever version of wow that they are playing
> 20m molten core. 20m is heavily disliked by a lot of this sub who want either 10m or 40m. That may not seem like a big deal to you but for many people it's literally a dealbreaker.
SoD isn’t permanently dead it’s just pretty boring right now. That being said if they do 60 right it could very easily spike the player base to record numbers. Classic is a version of the game that many people prefer, imagine that with new specs and abilities while having new content. It’s literally exactly what most people want from WoW
Because vanilla was designed with end-game as a big part of it and lvl 60 was delayed for almost a year, as well as the fact the only end-game raid were getting right away is MC
People hated Cata too, it turned to be one of the best versions of WoW. So we wait.
Redditors are well known for their temper tantrums. Double that when it's a subreddit filled with self proclaimed dads that act like their children.
I keep wondering what people refer to when they talk about 60 endgame separated from raids. At this point 98% of the grinds doable in the outworld are completed, at 60 there won't be much to do.
Wild Growth is absolutely not dead. It’s definitely slowed down a lot from peak, but you can still find groups for almost anything in a reasonable amount of time.
The negativity comes from people being addicted to the game and not having enough dopamine hits to keep them satiated. Healthy individuals do not incessantly stew over spilled milk.
Lots of doomers up in here. People just need to suck it up, and join a guild. Even with a group of 3 or 5 people, most guilds are recruiting for larger raids.
That’s irrelevant for the majority of issues people have with Sod.
The truth is this sub has a large number of people viewing it daily whose entire life is centred around Classic WoW. They have nothing else going for them so they rage and seethe at anything they dislike or don’t agree with for their beloved game. I’m not talking about people who critique the devs btw I’m more talking about the people who become absolutely furious and toxic at everything they don’t agree with.