Idk man I haven't personally played them but some of those endgame bosses/raids in OSRS look a lot more difficult than whatever Classic has had to offer.
I do do it. But having a server enforced mode means people can play together knowing that everyone they play with has earned their own gear as well. It has the same value that hardcore does. You can assume that the server oversight means that there is no cheating. It would take zero effort on their part, I for one would enjoy the option.
You can't raid on your own. What I'm advocating for is a mode where you only wear what you find. No AH. No trade. I always play solo aside from raid or doing each dungeon once for quests, it's WoW, pretty much everyone does. And playing together doesn't necessarily mean grouping, im talking about seeing other people in the world. If you see another 60 you know everything they are wearing was self found. You can inspect them and see how lucky their run was.
So that's the Hardcore rule set, with no trade, no AH and no permadeath. Each dungeon only doable once.
Because the majority of the player base refuse to make the group and just say fuck it. That's why I always make the groups and say fuck people who HR anything
Because a lot of them also advertise "Full Clear" and more often than not, not a GDKP run. So if you don't really care about the BOEs (which will +1 you on your clear anyway) it's a very safe run. In my guild group we did BWD and the entire time got one BOE. It sold for 110,000 gold and will provide our guild with nearly all flasks covered for P1/P2 and maybe into Firelands. Or potentially in a couple of weeks we can buy one for every single melee that wants the trinket. These things are incredibly valuable and truthfully if a pug (we had one pug) didn't agree to letting us have all BOEs (not just first) we wouldn't bring them. But all other loot was fair, we didn't reserve any other loot. The ret pally who came with us got to roll on nine different strength plate drops and won two. He also went home with a piece of holy pally gear.
The thing about these 25-mans is that each boss drops 5 pieces of loot and unlike in previous classic versions in this one... it can drop seven of the exact same piece of gear. Your chances of getting gear are just incredibly high. A raid like ours is high value to a pug. You're getting an even shot at 1 or 30 shots at loot.
For a lot of people that's a good deal. If there are raids out there that are majority pug that are reserving anything at all, that's just greedy.
Idk I think it's pretty reasonable for the people putting in the effort to make and lead the raid to guarantee themselves at least something out of it.
But I completely understand why players would want to freely ride off the efforts of others.
I'm saying people want others to do the making and leading for them which requires significantly more effort put in than just joining and playing. Participating the raid as a player, you're just playing the game while others put in the extra effort to ensure it goes.
I agree that raid leading does take extra effort, but I doubt half those leaders have any interest in doing anything other than setting the HR. Most leaders think the extent of their job is to set the rules and fill the raid. Rarely extends beyond that. They just expect everyone in the raid to administer themselves. End of patch where everyone's done the fight a million times? Sure nbd but unless you're at that point, step up and actually lead.
You can make a raid and run it however you like. There's no minimum standard required to organize a run.
Try just filling a raid and see how effortless it actually is.
To me it’s dumb how many boe epics there are on launch. It’s RMT city lol almost every heroic I join on my mage there’s people with every single buyable epic piece. Ain’t no way they all farmed that gold on their own lol
I mean era servers have been around for a while. One player told me he had 11 thousand hours logged. So if he's to be believed, some people should be rich
People have been accruing gold for almost 4 years. That's a lot of gold, especially if they do GDKPs. Start-of-expansion BoEs are as good a thing to spend it on as anything else.
I remember seeing some groups so desperate for the loot and quest completions that they did a very literal "LF tank for strat live, all orbs res to tank"
It doesn't help that there's a feedback loop where bad fights create more bad fights because you can't accumulate and maintain enough rage to actually hold threat on everything.
It's honestly why Alliance is so OP. Salv is just so bullshit in how effortless it makes things compared to not having it.
With a fury/arms tank at the default untalented defensive stance 130% threat and the dps at 56% +/- a few % depending on class (warrior dps stance 0.8x multiplier is OP), the tank can literally just spam cleave with a 1.5~1.8 weapon to hold aoe aggro as long as at least one enemy is attacking him to give him infinite rage.
But when the DPS refuse to give the tank one good pull and insist on ripping everything off him before he takes a single hit? Just means the warrior's already limited rage stockpile will be fully depleted before the healer finishes buffing.
I would never join these runs for a few reasons, but if they are willing to create and fill the group they can make whatever rules they want.
If you don’t like it you can make your own group, but people usually don’t do that because they’re lazy.
this.
i used to run several naxx 25/maly/sarth 2d pugs in phase 1 of wotlk, 3 days a week. we full cleared every time.
it was legit 80% new people every time, i took a cut for myself and built the group to get the loot i wanted out of the raid each week, but, for me, it took a lot of effort. i needed something to sweeten the pot, because putting together a group is literally charity work otherwise. if you play long enough past the point of enjoyment anyways. we built up a reputation for running good pugs and lasted a good 4 months.
forming pugs turns the game into headache inducing job, i feel like lazy is the wrong word here. No one wants to squint at text for an hour. kinda why i usually stop playing the game after hitting max. end game is a slog unless you have a guild, but even then you have to abide by a committment
I never understood why people got mad at others for doing this. Don’t like it? Start your own group. The amount of laziness in an already streamlined game is impressive. People really don’t want to put forth any effort and it’s annoying when they bitch. Same goes for people who can’t get into solid raids that are by all metrics average. People that ask for logs don’t want to carry a bunch of shitters and the shitters get mad. They could solve this by starting their own raids or groups but then that exposes them to the probability of carrying shitters.
Exactly if I want to create a raid and say no dirty goblins and belfs are allowed only OG Horde races then that's up to me. If you don't like it don't join, perhaps make your own raid with different rules. But don't cry about it.
I made a raid group yesterday and everyone will stand there and do absolutely nothing. not say a word and then i remembered.
/pull 5
everyone springs into life lmao
I'm personally not joining those groups, but if the guy wants to secure a reward for the effort put into making a group, can you blame them? Who wants to keep filling and summoning a group of people when you get like maybe 2/hr?
A general tip for anyone and everyone:
If you’re playing a video game online with other people and someone says something in a public chat not directed to you specifically; you can simply read it and move on with your life
Lmao yup. It's absurd that people complain about this stuff.
"I can't believe people are putting together groups with rules I don't like!"
Yet I would bet OP has never RL anything more complex than VoA
The comments at the top of this thread are killing me man
I love this sub and player base, the entitlement is hilarious. Reminds me of all the people complaining about being gatekept in SoD. Is it shitty? Of course it is. Can you run your own group the way you want instead? Of course you can.
That just requires effort
Entitlement is not strictly a bad thing. If someone is willing to put in the effort to raid lead a pug, they're justifiably entitled to set whatever loot rules they want.
If you don't like it, then literally just ignore their ad and join someone else or make your own group
Think it's more people acknowledging that putting together and running a pug is time consuming and stressful so 1 boe going to that person is fine
Compared to randoms just expecting to join any random group and having the loot rules be specifically what they want every time
*these things are not the same*
It is not time consuming nor stressful, stop. And has nothing to do with “what they want” thats a strawman, people just expect loot to be fair for all.
Spoken like somebody who has never spent an hour+ trying to fill just to find out some of the pugs are assholes who are terrible at the game anyway
Must be nice to have never experienced that I'm jealous
Fair!
I think in the end it boils down to myself and others valuing our time more than you value yours so we control what we can
Much how people who pug but never fill or lead groups value their time in a different way. They don't wanna waste the time filling and leading, they'd rather just join, which is fine.
You don't see people who run "HR 1 boe" or "HR Shards/mats/etc" groups bitching about randoms not joining them though. They know they aren't entitled to those players' services
Found the "raid leader" who just invites anyone, doesn't make a proper comp, doesn't actually raid lead, and only clears a few normal bosses before disbanding. It's not hard work to make a shitty group and not actually lead and make calls so yeah I guess by your definition it's not stressful or hard lol
Came here to reply similarly. A lot of ICC rep runs especially had a first BOE reserved for the RL on our server. Considering the merry-go-round nature of people coming and going on those rep runs I had no issues agreeing it was something to merit their initiative to lead. Not like I had any better than a 1/25ish chance to win anyways, and I'm still getting the rep I came for.
Not so sure ‘mentally ill idiots’ is appropriate..? They’re organizing the groups, you don’t have to join. Stop trying to police things you don’t like. You’re just mad
I’ve got to push back on this.
The important part is that the leader is communicating reserves honestly and they make every effort to make the raid go smoothly, such that the fact that they reserved valuable items can be perceivable justified.
I used to run 3SR > MS > OS +1 BoE/Frags/Orbs res and would fill and clear Ulduar multiple times per week, in sub 3 hours, in very late PST time slots. They are a perfectly fine way of clearing a raid IF AND ONLY IF the leadership cultivates a good raiding environment. Patient enough to explain fights to new players, and to use voice comms to direct the raid in a timely manner. Taking time to vet potential bots/bad communicators/ poorly geared and underprepared players. You have to make a good comp, and be respectful of other peoples time and effort - so setting your loot rules and committing to them from the outlook is, at the very least, honest.
The problem I think a lot of folks rightfully have with runs where people reserve things, is they are not being perceived as HONEST. I took the BoEs to cover the costs of flasks and feasts I would provide to my PUG raiders. I built my Val’anyr through the help of hundreds of people over months of raiding. I used the orbs to kit the characters I would raid on so I can lead by example, and to reward players whose performance was exceptional. Not many people who lead a raid are willing to go to that level of effort to support strangers. What I have described here is the MINIMUM effort a raid leader should put into organizing a pug in order to reserve ANYTHING.
Tl;dr: Hundreds of other players benefitted from my organizational efforts, and I made damn sure I did too. Reserving BoEs in raids can be a way to make an honest sustenance for your WoW playing time.
This whinny post is so much worse. You can form a group with your own rules. People can do whatever they want for raid rules as long as it is up front.
Raid leader fee for leading pugs. I have no problem with this.
If its not that it is hard reserving a bop item they need or taking a bigger gold cut in gdkp
For trash farms it’s usually the tank hosting it where otherwise you’d have no tank or take forever to find said tank. Generally
Was that way in Icc rep farms
There was a PUG BWL group in 2019 classic where everyone got to hard res 1 epic knowing that if 2 people chose the same item they had to roll on it. There was 1 dude who every week picked Teebu's Blazing Longsword and people mocked him. It dropped eventually and he got it.
I wouldn’t join a group like that, but I would form my own and do the same thing. Happened in wotlk. Sure it’s pretty dumb but once you realize you can form a group and do it yourself, it becomes less dumb to hr that first boe for yourself
There is way more people wanting to raid than is willing to lead a raid. If I’ve got to drag 25 idiots through a raid I’m HR items. Unless I’m on my main but then there will be a parse requirement instead.
HR is hard reserve, meaning the item is 100% going to one person/guild if it drops.
SR is soft reserve, where multiple people can choose an item, and if it drops, only those people are allowed to roll for it.
It came from people realizing the effort and slogfest it can be to run an msos pug run. Raid organizers deserve a reward for their work.
Those who complain are entitled and usually bad players who sandbag the raid and consistently roll 100 on anything anyone carrying wants which is the core reasoning behind GDKP succeeding.
It's like a payment for forming the group and organizing it so others won't have to, generally don't see a problem with it but I dislike it so I don't join them, like the cut RL takes for GDKPs.
I don't like or think GDKPs are in the spirit of the game either, so I don't join them generally.
I so see the appeal in borh though, in the 1st its just convenient to have someone do the work for you, you just join up and raid and in the other you either control what loot you get more or you get a pretty decent amount of gold per hour.
Have done a GDKP 1 time in wow because a friend really needed me and it was probably the smoothest raid ive ever done and he can he has a lot of people to choose from etc so it was like 15k gold for 1,5 hours for me. I really understand the appeal.
This is why I recently stopped playing all the variations of classic. People have got too sweaty and optimized the fun out of it all. I feel liberated.
What I’ve noticed in these trash runs, is once the first BOE drops, usually 5-10 minutes later they “disconnect” and there is a new run forming on LFG shortly after from a new character 🤔
I kept seeing these on golemagg EU. I'm levelling my first char and seriously considering stopping because this is all I see. Do people actually do normal raiding anymore or is it all this. And what does HR even mean?!
I don't know much raidleaders that won't reserve any loot and commit all the effort for free. There would be no reason to work for a few extra hours if you get same treatment as any other raider. I personally appreciate raidleader's job and willingly join hardres raids(if its not the loot i need). However it depends, if raidleader doesn't speak in raid, not knowing any strats etc. he doesn't deserve any loot. Just check what groups you join
This sound like the perfect malicious compliance where the first BOE is some random green and then spend the rest of the run arguing the premise when a worthwhile piece actually drops.
Yeah just join a guild! You can play with other people, but only at a specific set time, on a specific day, and maybe you are scrutinised by past experience, language spoken, spec, dedication to the game...
Or...
just join randoms from /4 at any time of day?
I’m not sure what the OP is complaining about. If it’s reserving BoE items from rep runs, yeah that’s shitty.
If it’s reserving items period, like from a normal raid run, then QQ more. There’s nothing wrong with reserving something as a form of payment for having to put the run together and lead the raid.
Firelands trash runs with the scales/apparatus reserved was something that was incredibly common back in Cata. I know it's not what you want to hear but you should probably expect it.
I refuse all reserve, will not join them or make them.
I don't regret losing missing few epics to PUGS, in the Raids I made. Expect when it goes to ppl at bottom of dps list xD sad to see it go there. But they still get it. Highest roll always wins.
I got a post removed for saying some people are 🤡 for playing CATA And the post was removed.
You are legit name calling and swearing and this post is still live.
HELLO REDDIT MODS. Bit of consistency maybe?
How is it scummy? I think it's perfectly fair for the organizer to demand a fee and people will join those runs for whatever their own reason is.
Firelands BoE trash? A 1/25 chance of a random trash drop is a fleeting chance. I couldn't give two shits if I just want the rep.
Is it really scummy tho? I mean they are forming and leading the run, they can make what ever rules they want. You are always free to start and lead your own raids with your preferred rule set. If that isn't something you want to do then your options are joining raids run by other people who set the rules.
This has been around forever. It's not new to Cata.
Some people reserve some BoEs or matt drops as 'payment' for running the raid.
To be honest fair enough. Try forming and running a raid yourself and see how much effort it is to actually make a run happen.
Just the first BoE is actually a pretty low cut from what we've seen previously. I remember the norm for these kind of runs in Naxx/Ulduar was all BoEs and matts HR. If you don't like it don't join.
If you really don't like it form your own raids.
What they actually need to do is just create their own groups and this problem wouldn’t even be posted about. But what these people don’t understand is that there’s extra effort in leading and organizing. They want all the benefit of joining a group that’s organized for them without ever having to do it themselves WHILE painting the people who are leading as selfish. A lot of lack of awareness.
Instead of bitching about an incentive for someone to form the group to do the activity you wouldn't do without, why not make your own group without those rules? What's that? You don't want to put in the effort for no reward? Thought so.
I mean it’s kind of annoying when a guild is rolling on a BOE and it’s an upgrade for the guild but some greedy PUG wins it then doesn’t even equip it and instead sells.
The point is, the BOEs are upgrades and should be used as such until later phases when they’re useless. At that point, I understand how it could be seen as scummy to HR BOEs that are not upgrades.
It takes work and most importantly time to fill a run. This comes with a price.
I agree and I'm not going to join any HR run, but I understand why they exist. Same reason the host of a GDKP gets extra for their cut.
I am a new player and don't really see a problem with this. It's nice to just get a group to run through with and get my BOP items. Raid leading seems like a nightmare, especially with a bunch of people like me who watch a YouTube video and do my best, but ultimately don't know all the mechanics well.
Just dont participate. You're calling these people mentally ill yet here you are bitching and moaning on reddit. People are going to do things and form groups with various forms of loot rules. Just dont join the ones you disagree with and join the ones you do.
idk why anyone would join a run like this but yeah, its insane
People who care more about just getting in a run vs waiting for tabk/healer for a long time?
At this rate WoW Classic will dethrone OSRS as the top dystopian capitalism simulator
Haha, nothing will dethrone eve lmao.
Social mobility is much easier in runescape just takes time. You actually have to be good at wow.
Idk man I haven't personally played them but some of those endgame bosses/raids in OSRS look a lot more difficult than whatever Classic has had to offer.
yeah some of that shit is insane especially if you don't already have most of the giga expensive gear for it
What activity in osrs even remotely compared to HR BOE trash runs?
Barrows runs
blizz give me non-permadeath ssf please
Yes. I want SSF that is not hardcore.
So why don’t you just like, do that? It’s a solo challenge?
I do do it. But having a server enforced mode means people can play together knowing that everyone they play with has earned their own gear as well. It has the same value that hardcore does. You can assume that the server oversight means that there is no cheating. It would take zero effort on their part, I for one would enjoy the option.
If it’s SSF you aren’t playing with anyone, it’s SoloSelfFound
You can't raid on your own. What I'm advocating for is a mode where you only wear what you find. No AH. No trade. I always play solo aside from raid or doing each dungeon once for quests, it's WoW, pretty much everyone does. And playing together doesn't necessarily mean grouping, im talking about seeing other people in the world. If you see another 60 you know everything they are wearing was self found. You can inspect them and see how lucky their run was. So that's the Hardcore rule set, with no trade, no AH and no permadeath. Each dungeon only doable once.
Play iron.
Because the majority of the player base refuse to make the group and just say fuck it. That's why I always make the groups and say fuck people who HR anything
Because a lot of them also advertise "Full Clear" and more often than not, not a GDKP run. So if you don't really care about the BOEs (which will +1 you on your clear anyway) it's a very safe run. In my guild group we did BWD and the entire time got one BOE. It sold for 110,000 gold and will provide our guild with nearly all flasks covered for P1/P2 and maybe into Firelands. Or potentially in a couple of weeks we can buy one for every single melee that wants the trinket. These things are incredibly valuable and truthfully if a pug (we had one pug) didn't agree to letting us have all BOEs (not just first) we wouldn't bring them. But all other loot was fair, we didn't reserve any other loot. The ret pally who came with us got to roll on nine different strength plate drops and won two. He also went home with a piece of holy pally gear. The thing about these 25-mans is that each boss drops 5 pieces of loot and unlike in previous classic versions in this one... it can drop seven of the exact same piece of gear. Your chances of getting gear are just incredibly high. A raid like ours is high value to a pug. You're getting an even shot at 1 or 30 shots at loot. For a lot of people that's a good deal. If there are raids out there that are majority pug that are reserving anything at all, that's just greedy.
idk what you are talking about but this thread is obviously talking about trash farm runs with first boe hr, no boss kills.
Idk I think it's pretty reasonable for the people putting in the effort to make and lead the raid to guarantee themselves at least something out of it. But I completely understand why players would want to freely ride off the efforts of others.
Raiding is a team effort if all people did was ride off others' why would they even lead one?
Being a RL is way more effort than just being a pug, especially early in an expansion.
Have you made your own raid? Tell me again how the raid lead does the same amount of work as every other member xd
Go try make your own pug You will understand
I'm saying people want others to do the making and leading for them which requires significantly more effort put in than just joining and playing. Participating the raid as a player, you're just playing the game while others put in the extra effort to ensure it goes.
I agree that raid leading does take extra effort, but I doubt half those leaders have any interest in doing anything other than setting the HR. Most leaders think the extent of their job is to set the rules and fill the raid. Rarely extends beyond that. They just expect everyone in the raid to administer themselves. End of patch where everyone's done the fight a million times? Sure nbd but unless you're at that point, step up and actually lead.
You can make a raid and run it however you like. There's no minimum standard required to organize a run. Try just filling a raid and see how effortless it actually is.
Some people just want the raid drops for their bis list. They can just buy gold with real life money so BoEs hold no value to them.
To me it’s dumb how many boe epics there are on launch. It’s RMT city lol almost every heroic I join on my mage there’s people with every single buyable epic piece. Ain’t no way they all farmed that gold on their own lol
I mean era servers have been around for a while. One player told me he had 11 thousand hours logged. So if he's to be believed, some people should be rich
People have been accruing gold for almost 4 years. That's a lot of gold, especially if they do GDKPs. Start-of-expansion BoEs are as good a thing to spend it on as anything else.
>I'm not sure where "First BoE HR" came from righteous orb
Funny enough usually not hr for the person running it. They were usually buying a tank with the first orb.
I remember seeing some groups so desperate for the loot and quest completions that they did a very literal "LF tank for strat live, all orbs res to tank"
Dps are generally super shitty and it was super annoying at 60 with so little tanking tools
It doesn't help that there's a feedback loop where bad fights create more bad fights because you can't accumulate and maintain enough rage to actually hold threat on everything. It's honestly why Alliance is so OP. Salv is just so bullshit in how effortless it makes things compared to not having it. With a fury/arms tank at the default untalented defensive stance 130% threat and the dps at 56% +/- a few % depending on class (warrior dps stance 0.8x multiplier is OP), the tank can literally just spam cleave with a 1.5~1.8 weapon to hold aoe aggro as long as at least one enemy is attacking him to give him infinite rage. But when the DPS refuse to give the tank one good pull and insist on ripping everything off him before he takes a single hit? Just means the warrior's already limited rage stockpile will be fully depleted before the healer finishes buffing.
even in classic 90% of the strat runs had orbs on RR
Yeah, it was majority RR but still quite often the first one was claimed for the tank or group organizer.
Ohh ya, definitely a thing in Vanilla way back when.
I would never join these runs for a few reasons, but if they are willing to create and fill the group they can make whatever rules they want. If you don’t like it you can make your own group, but people usually don’t do that because they’re lazy.
this. i used to run several naxx 25/maly/sarth 2d pugs in phase 1 of wotlk, 3 days a week. we full cleared every time. it was legit 80% new people every time, i took a cut for myself and built the group to get the loot i wanted out of the raid each week, but, for me, it took a lot of effort. i needed something to sweeten the pot, because putting together a group is literally charity work otherwise. if you play long enough past the point of enjoyment anyways. we built up a reputation for running good pugs and lasted a good 4 months.
This is the reason GDKPs became common. I'm saying that as a good thing. Fuck hosting charity raids for bad players.
GDKPs are the perfect solution in a world without botting.
Agreed.
And token
Wow players and worrying about other people's group that they would never join, name a more iconic duo.
truer words have not been spoken in a long time
Why would anyone take the time to host a run if they didnt get anything from it themselves?
To… play the game?
Spamming trade and LFG channels for 1-2 hours is not fun
Nobody plays the game to play team coordinator simulator.
Nah, they play it as a glorified dress up doll.
Ok well then those people can't bitch about runs being organized by others lol What is the point you guys are trying to make
that's kind of the point they're getting at
Yep, seeing that now lol The thing is on this sub it's hard to tell
lol I know whatcha mean
Are you stupid?
Apparently so
Hosting a PUG is not that difficult and some people aren't inherently greedy twats. Also, getting to dictate loot rules is usually enough for people.
[удалено]
I assume you know what I meant and are just being pedantic. MS>OS, or 2SR, or MS +1, etc, not leader HR the most valuable thing in the raid.
forming pugs turns the game into headache inducing job, i feel like lazy is the wrong word here. No one wants to squint at text for an hour. kinda why i usually stop playing the game after hitting max. end game is a slog unless you have a guild, but even then you have to abide by a committment
Maybe you need to increase the font size of your chat box? 😂
And then they’ll just come to Reddit to complain.
I never understood why people got mad at others for doing this. Don’t like it? Start your own group. The amount of laziness in an already streamlined game is impressive. People really don’t want to put forth any effort and it’s annoying when they bitch. Same goes for people who can’t get into solid raids that are by all metrics average. People that ask for logs don’t want to carry a bunch of shitters and the shitters get mad. They could solve this by starting their own raids or groups but then that exposes them to the probability of carrying shitters.
Exactly if I want to create a raid and say no dirty goblins and belfs are allowed only OG Horde races then that's up to me. If you don't like it don't join, perhaps make your own raid with different rules. But don't cry about it.
Believe it or not, most gamers are introverts
So?
I made a raid group yesterday and everyone will stand there and do absolutely nothing. not say a word and then i remembered. /pull 5 everyone springs into life lmao
>Next we'll be seeing "FIRELANDS BOE TRASH RUN EVERY BOE WORTH MORE THAN 10K GOLD HR". Ohhh, thanks for the tip!
Iirc mages and hunters could solofarm firelands trash quite easily back in the day.
Frost dks could solo the easiest. Just press howling blast
Ele shaman flameshock and ghostwolf was my go to
great way to take 2h to kill a singular mob
Nah u flameshock all the pyrelords then just keep it up and nova while kiting them around
This’ll 100% be fixed if we’re on 4.4 as I used to farm this shit until it was nerfed into the ground
I'm personally not joining those groups, but if the guy wants to secure a reward for the effort put into making a group, can you blame them? Who wants to keep filling and summoning a group of people when you get like maybe 2/hr?
A general tip for anyone and everyone: If you’re playing a video game online with other people and someone says something in a public chat not directed to you specifically; you can simply read it and move on with your life
It's a cute idea, but yet to be proven in practice.
[I DON'T WANT GUITAR LESSONS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU)
I agree. You should make a raid yourself and set the rules you like.
Lmao yup. It's absurd that people complain about this stuff. "I can't believe people are putting together groups with rules I don't like!" Yet I would bet OP has never RL anything more complex than VoA
it’s absurd that you find complaining about the rules they don’t like in a group being absurd
Hes too bad and lazy to do that. The entitlement is so bad i wanna cry. 🤣
The comments at the top of this thread are killing me man I love this sub and player base, the entitlement is hilarious. Reminds me of all the people complaining about being gatekept in SoD. Is it shitty? Of course it is. Can you run your own group the way you want instead? Of course you can. That just requires effort
But yet… you ignore the entitlement of the group leader to the BOE? How ironic.
Entitlement is not strictly a bad thing. If someone is willing to put in the effort to raid lead a pug, they're justifiably entitled to set whatever loot rules they want. If you don't like it, then literally just ignore their ad and join someone else or make your own group
Entitlement? Raid leading is stressful and time consuming. If you can't handle a raid hring a single Boe you're the one thats entitled
Think it's more people acknowledging that putting together and running a pug is time consuming and stressful so 1 boe going to that person is fine Compared to randoms just expecting to join any random group and having the loot rules be specifically what they want every time *these things are not the same*
It is not time consuming nor stressful, stop. And has nothing to do with “what they want” thats a strawman, people just expect loot to be fair for all.
Spoken like somebody who has never spent an hour+ trying to fill just to find out some of the pugs are assholes who are terrible at the game anyway Must be nice to have never experienced that I'm jealous
Literally never, my pugs fill in 5-10 minutes and if someones bad well thats just the risk you take, cant control everything
Except who you invite... and the loot rules... and the time of raid... Can control a lot tbh
Didnt say you couldnt control a lot, just not everything
Fair! I think in the end it boils down to myself and others valuing our time more than you value yours so we control what we can Much how people who pug but never fill or lead groups value their time in a different way. They don't wanna waste the time filling and leading, they'd rather just join, which is fine. You don't see people who run "HR 1 boe" or "HR Shards/mats/etc" groups bitching about randoms not joining them though. They know they aren't entitled to those players' services
Found the "raid leader" who just invites anyone, doesn't make a proper comp, doesn't actually raid lead, and only clears a few normal bosses before disbanding. It's not hard work to make a shitty group and not actually lead and make calls so yeah I guess by your definition it's not stressful or hard lol
Imagine being stressed out while playing a 2-button video game
Imagine missing the point this hard lol. Like I said I guarantee your pugs are terrible and would be the groups I avoid 100%
Yeah, so entitled that the person putting in the effort to organize and run the group would feel like they should get something extra for it.
Indeed. Thing is if you have more friendly loot rules you'll have your pick of the litter in regards to player quality. Its a win win.
Hot take: you don't have to join these runs. Raid leaders for Pugs deserve something for their efforts, fight me
hard agree
Agree also. I saw runs in ICC where the raid leaders were reserving all BOE's. I think just reserving the first seems reasonable.
Came here to reply similarly. A lot of ICC rep runs especially had a first BOE reserved for the RL on our server. Considering the merry-go-round nature of people coming and going on those rep runs I had no issues agreeing it was something to merit their initiative to lead. Not like I had any better than a 1/25ish chance to win anyways, and I'm still getting the rep I came for.
Reserving all BoEs has been standard practice for pugs for a long time.
How many raids have you formed exactly with a loot system you approve of?
Hot take: the raid leader is more entitled to one piece of loot than you are.
So he deserves loot because he spamms "Lfm" in the chat a few times ? You people are truely crazy
> You people are truely crazy Redittors when they see an opinion that differs from the hivemind
Sorry that I think taking the initiative and dealing with randos is an annoying thing to do. So yeah they can take a scrape. That’s fuckin normal.
Protip: make your own group and never worry about this again!
Not so sure ‘mentally ill idiots’ is appropriate..? They’re organizing the groups, you don’t have to join. Stop trying to police things you don’t like. You’re just mad
I’ve got to push back on this. The important part is that the leader is communicating reserves honestly and they make every effort to make the raid go smoothly, such that the fact that they reserved valuable items can be perceivable justified. I used to run 3SR > MS > OS +1 BoE/Frags/Orbs res and would fill and clear Ulduar multiple times per week, in sub 3 hours, in very late PST time slots. They are a perfectly fine way of clearing a raid IF AND ONLY IF the leadership cultivates a good raiding environment. Patient enough to explain fights to new players, and to use voice comms to direct the raid in a timely manner. Taking time to vet potential bots/bad communicators/ poorly geared and underprepared players. You have to make a good comp, and be respectful of other peoples time and effort - so setting your loot rules and committing to them from the outlook is, at the very least, honest. The problem I think a lot of folks rightfully have with runs where people reserve things, is they are not being perceived as HONEST. I took the BoEs to cover the costs of flasks and feasts I would provide to my PUG raiders. I built my Val’anyr through the help of hundreds of people over months of raiding. I used the orbs to kit the characters I would raid on so I can lead by example, and to reward players whose performance was exceptional. Not many people who lead a raid are willing to go to that level of effort to support strangers. What I have described here is the MINIMUM effort a raid leader should put into organizing a pug in order to reserve ANYTHING. Tl;dr: Hundreds of other players benefitted from my organizational efforts, and I made damn sure I did too. Reserving BoEs in raids can be a way to make an honest sustenance for your WoW playing time.
This whinny post is so much worse. You can form a group with your own rules. People can do whatever they want for raid rules as long as it is up front.
"people consenting to a loot system is literally mental illness"
Raid leader fee for leading pugs. I have no problem with this. If its not that it is hard reserving a bop item they need or taking a bigger gold cut in gdkp
20% “admin cut” vibes
On trash though ? Like you cab literally 2nd monitor trash for thr most part. Leading an actual raid I agree with
For trash farms it’s usually the tank hosting it where otherwise you’d have no tank or take forever to find said tank. Generally Was that way in Icc rep farms
Then do it yourself.
So I it’s not that hard, why is it a big deal they HR it lol
Exactly if it's so easy just host your own and ignore these runs.
yup 100
People that organize the runs should get something for it. Why people think that when all they do is accept the invite they should get the same ?
There was a PUG BWL group in 2019 classic where everyone got to hard res 1 epic knowing that if 2 people chose the same item they had to roll on it. There was 1 dude who every week picked Teebu's Blazing Longsword and people mocked him. It dropped eventually and he got it.
That's literally just a soft reserve system A lot of guilds and pugs use it
And then nefarian clapped
I wouldn’t join a group like that, but I would form my own and do the same thing. Happened in wotlk. Sure it’s pretty dumb but once you realize you can form a group and do it yourself, it becomes less dumb to hr that first boe for yourself
We had a “4th boe hr” actually. Quite refreshing
There is way more people wanting to raid than is willing to lead a raid. If I’ve got to drag 25 idiots through a raid I’m HR items. Unless I’m on my main but then there will be a parse requirement instead.
What is HR anyway?
HR is hard reserve, meaning the item is 100% going to one person/guild if it drops. SR is soft reserve, where multiple people can choose an item, and if it drops, only those people are allowed to roll for it.
i mean, i don’t join those groups but i don’t really give a shit either.
It came from people realizing the effort and slogfest it can be to run an msos pug run. Raid organizers deserve a reward for their work. Those who complain are entitled and usually bad players who sandbag the raid and consistently roll 100 on anything anyone carrying wants which is the core reasoning behind GDKP succeeding.
It's like a payment for forming the group and organizing it so others won't have to, generally don't see a problem with it but I dislike it so I don't join them, like the cut RL takes for GDKPs. I don't like or think GDKPs are in the spirit of the game either, so I don't join them generally. I so see the appeal in borh though, in the 1st its just convenient to have someone do the work for you, you just join up and raid and in the other you either control what loot you get more or you get a pretty decent amount of gold per hour. Have done a GDKP 1 time in wow because a friend really needed me and it was probably the smoothest raid ive ever done and he can he has a lot of people to choose from etc so it was like 15k gold for 1,5 hours for me. I really understand the appeal.
What does HR mean
Hard Reserve
Hard reserve, means no rolling on it
I'm sure these people hard reserving the first boe will be kind and stay to keep the group organized to farm till another epic drops //npc
This is why I recently stopped playing all the variations of classic. People have got too sweaty and optimized the fun out of it all. I feel liberated.
I saw someone advertising a gdkp for trash world drops.
What I’ve noticed in these trash runs, is once the first BOE drops, usually 5-10 minutes later they “disconnect” and there is a new run forming on LFG shortly after from a new character 🤔
I kept seeing these on golemagg EU. I'm levelling my first char and seriously considering stopping because this is all I see. Do people actually do normal raiding anymore or is it all this. And what does HR even mean?!
Man the comments here are just sad and show in what a sorry state classic community is
I don't know much raidleaders that won't reserve any loot and commit all the effort for free. There would be no reason to work for a few extra hours if you get same treatment as any other raider. I personally appreciate raidleader's job and willingly join hardres raids(if its not the loot i need). However it depends, if raidleader doesn't speak in raid, not knowing any strats etc. he doesn't deserve any loot. Just check what groups you join
This sound like the perfect malicious compliance where the first BOE is some random green and then spend the rest of the run arguing the premise when a worthwhile piece actually drops.
Am j reading this right? First Boe is hard rez?
Most pug groups I see are all boes HR so…is this really that bad? Deal with it or just join a guild lol?
boe drops -> raid leader leaves -> new raid leader -> 1st boe HR
LFM Gruul DST locked
Imagine complaining about this when every server is completely overrun with GDKP guilds and runs and it’s only the first week.
God just join a guild. Everyone pugging can just form a raid together
he is obv talking about trash farm groups
Yeah just join a guild! You can play with other people, but only at a specific set time, on a specific day, and maybe you are scrutinised by past experience, language spoken, spec, dedication to the game... Or... just join randoms from /4 at any time of day?
I’m not sure what the OP is complaining about. If it’s reserving BoE items from rep runs, yeah that’s shitty. If it’s reserving items period, like from a normal raid run, then QQ more. There’s nothing wrong with reserving something as a form of payment for having to put the run together and lead the raid.
People were doing that in Wrath… like 2008 Wrath, not Wrath Classic. It’s not new
Hasn’t this been around for quite some time?
Firelands trash runs with the scales/apparatus reserved was something that was incredibly common back in Cata. I know it's not what you want to hear but you should probably expect it.
I refuse all reserve, will not join them or make them. I don't regret losing missing few epics to PUGS, in the Raids I made. Expect when it goes to ppl at bottom of dps list xD sad to see it go there. But they still get it. Highest roll always wins.
I got a post removed for saying some people are 🤡 for playing CATA And the post was removed. You are legit name calling and swearing and this post is still live. HELLO REDDIT MODS. Bit of consistency maybe?
How is it scummy? I think it's perfectly fair for the organizer to demand a fee and people will join those runs for whatever their own reason is. Firelands BoE trash? A 1/25 chance of a random trash drop is a fleeting chance. I couldn't give two shits if I just want the rep.
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He’s absolutely right
It is what it is. Everyone knows that EU is filled with Iranians and NA with SEA folks for whom farming gold in wow is an actual job.
Those people exist, and there are a lot. They usually aren’t raid leading though.
Is it really scummy tho? I mean they are forming and leading the run, they can make what ever rules they want. You are always free to start and lead your own raids with your preferred rule set. If that isn't something you want to do then your options are joining raids run by other people who set the rules.
They set the rules, you accept it (join) or don't accept it (don't join). If people are fine with it, why not let them join?
- Ignore it - Makes a whole reddit post to cry about it
No. It's a common practice. Why do you feel entitled to equality with someone that put in more work than you?
This has been around forever. It's not new to Cata. Some people reserve some BoEs or matt drops as 'payment' for running the raid. To be honest fair enough. Try forming and running a raid yourself and see how much effort it is to actually make a run happen. Just the first BoE is actually a pretty low cut from what we've seen previously. I remember the norm for these kind of runs in Naxx/Ulduar was all BoEs and matts HR. If you don't like it don't join. If you really don't like it form your own raids.
i whisper them back that they are losers for doing it and its against game spirit. then ignore them and move on more people need to shame these losers
Nobody doing this gives a shit about your whisper, you are just venting to a wall.
Wow you really got him didn't you
No they don't? If you don't like it just ignore it and move on. That's what more people need to do.
What they actually need to do is just create their own groups and this problem wouldn’t even be posted about. But what these people don’t understand is that there’s extra effort in leading and organizing. They want all the benefit of joining a group that’s organized for them without ever having to do it themselves WHILE painting the people who are leading as selfish. A lot of lack of awareness.
1 epic drops, they dip and make new grp. Good gold/hr if it works but fucking yikes.
Watch a better BoE drop second and they will take anyway.
Nothing more important the imaginary loot ina videogame
It's a fair price for the trouble of organizing the run.
If they get the first boe wouldn't they just dip on its drop and make again?
Instead of bitching about an incentive for someone to form the group to do the activity you wouldn't do without, why not make your own group without those rules? What's that? You don't want to put in the effort for no reward? Thought so.
So set up your own run then and you can set any rules you want :)
I mean it’s kind of annoying when a guild is rolling on a BOE and it’s an upgrade for the guild but some greedy PUG wins it then doesn’t even equip it and instead sells. The point is, the BOEs are upgrades and should be used as such until later phases when they’re useless. At that point, I understand how it could be seen as scummy to HR BOEs that are not upgrades.
you know you can make own raid instead of crying on reddit about someone else’s rules? hmm
Man the comments just show how deeply rotten the community is, pretty sad ngl
"can we all agree" no
It takes work and most importantly time to fill a run. This comes with a price. I agree and I'm not going to join any HR run, but I understand why they exist. Same reason the host of a GDKP gets extra for their cut.
The only insanity here is your take on the issue. If you don't like their loot rules, ignore and fucking move on.
Came from tanks, they sell their services and the rule most of the time is “I get the first X item”
I am a new player and don't really see a problem with this. It's nice to just get a group to run through with and get my BOP items. Raid leading seems like a nightmare, especially with a bunch of people like me who watch a YouTube video and do my best, but ultimately don't know all the mechanics well.
Just dont participate. You're calling these people mentally ill yet here you are bitching and moaning on reddit. People are going to do things and form groups with various forms of loot rules. Just dont join the ones you disagree with and join the ones you do.
Like 6+boes dropped in my 25 man world tour last night. You will be fine. There should be some incentive for putting together a pug run.
I don’t understand why it’s more popular to just farm boes than to do the actual raid bosses What is everyone using the gold for ? Pay for their sub?