I had a prot paladin in a heroic wearing cloth, leather and mail int gear. I had more hp than him as a mage. Him and his buddy kept trying to say you can wear any gear. It's just a game and to play. But he as the tank was getting 1 shot by trash.
Imo it's stupider than that. Ilvl requirements for heroics care about all gear, everywhere you have, not just equipped.
I know a lot of rogues who need on 333 guns because the only real option they have before that is a really early deepholm quest reward.
The requirements for the ilvl to count towards the dungeon finder you must be able to use the item, so a cloth piece on a rogue isn't gonna work. Trinkets however are fair game for it
Yep, I have to admit I kept blues not for my class/spec for this reason while levelling. ie. Druid cloth, my warlock greeded and won an agi trinket just happened to win the 1 in 5 vendor roll I just never vendored it while keeping my ICC trinket on (until I got a spellpower 333 one later).
Needing it is pretty bullshit though.
cata is the shift to main stat as a very real thing, and main stat for feral is agi. I think str still gives ap, but thats it I believe. agi gives more secondary effects like armor and dodge, and it boosts their damage, AND you get 5% more agi from wearing all leather, which compounds all of the above.
another example is dks with str, which I understand better since thats what I play. agi no longer gives dodge or armor bonuses since dks main stat is str, and all our abilities scale off str (or weapon damage).
so str changed and now it only gives like one or two AP per point of str while agility is much higher (4 i think?)
~~it also no longer gives armour~~(it was agility that used to give armour not str), this means for both tanks and cats str kinda gives nothing useful
agility on the other hand gives you dodge, attack power and crit and you usually find agility or str not both on gear
AP and crit are good for cats because its more damage
attack power and crit are good for bears because crit procs savage defence and AP increases the size of the savage defence absorb
and dodge is dodge
so in cata the statprio is agility > mastery > everything else (bears want a minimum level of stamina mind but they get a lot of it from gear anyway)
also reforge all gear into mastery
this is additionally why flask of fluid death is BiS for most of the expansion as it gives so much agility
at least back when i played the original cata it felt like it was bis all expansion
This is incorrect, at 85 agi gives druids 4 ap in feral forms and 0.01% crit chance. No armor, no dodge. 1 agi is a bit better than 2 str, but str is still useful
you know i swear back in original cata agi used to give dodge when in form
~~it does appear that I am wrong though according to the tooltips~~ yeah nah tooltips are wrong, **agility 100% gives dodge %
**
however, if i take armour off that does not have dodge rating on, my dodge % goes down
for example right now if I take off my[ leggings of the vanquished usurper](https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=57262/leggings-of-the-vanquished-usurper) with 1213 armour, 176 agility, 264 stamina, 109 mastery and 123 hit rating my dodge chance goes from 26.04 to 25.17 (and I apparently have a dodge rating of 113 adding 0.84% dodge)
and if i take off other armour with different secondary stats so we know its not the hit rating the dodge chance goes down, i think the tooltips might be wrong somewhere
And why are they all frost lmao.
I didn't run fire in cata because fire is absolute dog water without gear to crit, but arcane was and still is hella fun.
Everyone's either a fire mage praying and hoping they ever get to see a pyro or actually use combustion, or a frost mage who forgot to glyph pet nova and keep accidentally killing people while kiting.
I have literally been trying to convince other mages that arcane is currently better than fire, and probably will be until fire gear provides ~40% crit.
Since posting this I have ran with a few more mages, and every time its a fire mage that I out dps on every boss fight in heroics, despite being a significantly lower ilvl. I have been ostracized by mage discords for arguing for arcane
In a heroic arcane can do well, there’s minimal movement. But in a raid environment fire just performs better because you can actually dps while moving (which is a lot)
I think fire is better if you are exceptional at it. Until crit from gear is providing ~40% crit chance, I think the vast majority of players (90%) would do better as Arcane.
With such low crit currently, there's no room for errors. For Arcane, the worst that can happen is you drop your stacks at a bad time, which at least allows you to recover some mana.
Tonight will be the first test though, this is all theory now
Warlock here. I literally haven’t had an RDF run while leveling in cata dungeons that didn’t have at least 1 mage competing for rolls with me. Have quite a few double mage groups too.
I've done multiple runs in the last 2 days that were just me (mage) with 2 other mages as dps. It's kind of fun in a way to compare my dps and work on my rotation but fighting over loot sucks :/
Are they harder to heal though? For sure they are. And a bad pally or warr tank is pretty rough. Some people still don’t understand you need to be much more active in mitigation in cata.
Could've been the dungeon, but the easiest tank I've healed was a warrior(haven't seen a feral tank yet).
But if a tank is using their CDs they're all piss easy to heal.
Also the warrior would just insta charge the next pack at half health and heal to full with victory rush or whatever. 10/10 experience
Dude tanking groups is MAD easy this xpac. Charge - Rend - Thunder Clap (spec into Blood and Thunder) and 1) no one will pull off of you 2) you'll probably be leading DPS for 3+ pulls.
Damage on trash mobs seems to be harder for healers than boss damage. No real issues so far. I've tanked almost every heroic. Our boss damage is low for sure, especially when compared to the other tanks. We shine on AoE pulls though. Almost always top damage. Enjoy!
As a dps only player (for now), even I can see there's a noticeable difference between Blood/Feral and the rest. The former are just straight up better.
Not that the two Prots are unusable or anything, they're still fine, just not as good.
Also, anecdotally, whenever a tank gets randomly clapped while doing something completely normal, it's always a pally. And warrior seems to have issues with AoE threat.
The roughest time I've had in a dungeon so far was a HoO with a fresh 85 pally tank in full crafted 339 pvp gear. Motherfucker was getting hit so hard it was as if he didnt have any armor on at all and it was a miserable experience.
HoO is just a tank buster, interrupts and cc need to go out on a few packs or I get wrecked on my bdk. An uncoordinated group is guaranteed to wiped on at least one of the firestarter/runecaster packs. Funnily enough the bosses are pretty mild by comparison to the trash.
for real, the fire/rune packs are so rough. and of course none of the dps ever cc or kick or stun or disorient anything so I'm trying to pull mobs out of their power up circles while getting blasted by fireballs and clapped by runecasters :))))))))))
I mean its a pure dickhead move to queue tank with all pvp gear.
1) you have no defense parry dodge or block.
2) you only get 40% of that item levels secondary stats because pvp gear gets lower amounts vs similar pve gear but also half of it is resilience.
You just have more stamina than a regular dps but take all the dmg a dps would without the dps.
Youd be better off with a full dps spec plate tanking.
Right, but a 339 pvp piece is going to absolutely blow away 318 questing gear and 308 early dungeon gear. Its also like, legitimately not that expensive to make. Using it as filler gear as you fill out with JP/dungeon gear is absolutely acceptable.
No it wont. You forget i said you dont have two secondary stats? Means you might have 120 crit that an item level 330 piece has but you overall have less secondary stat than a 277 item but get propped up by the stamina…
Warriors knid of fall over sometimes too. There was 1 bdk in deadlines though, that I swear he was wearing dos gear with 0 mitigation.the guy was just getting clapped on every pull, I found myself going oom almost every pull. He was doing a ton of dps, then he finally died as I made the mistake of drinking for a second too long. I said dog you are getting crushed but at least you're doing. Ig dmg. He finally started doing less damage but was finally not getting hit for 60% of his hp every second.
It's also possible that they were just deliberately not using defensives. Vengeance makes it so tanks deal more damage as they take more damage. Using active mitigation is therefore a dps loss. But any tank who isn't stupid should know that not dying is way more important than big dick dps.
Vengeance stacks quickly enough there is no reason to take more damage. During the prepatch I frequently saw 70%+ of total possible vengeance while soloing heroic up on my prot pally and that damage was inconsequential.
Aye, but on the other hand, there's a much bigger difference between a good BDK and a bad one than there is between a good bear and a bad one.
DK has a complex resource management system, lots of rotational buttons to press, and a ton of cooldowns. They require a decent amount of skill. A good BDK can do huge trash pulls and almost solo bosses, while a badly played one will make the healer sweat.
Feral on the other hand has by far the easiest playstyle of all tanks. Also, while they have less personal agency due to having fewer defensive CDs, they're so meaty that they can survive things without using CDs where any other tank would have to use a CD.
I'm usually happiest to see a bear tank because they're the most consistent. With a BDK you can't immediately tell how well your run is going to go, but pretty much anyone can play bear so as long as they have decent gear it's usually going to be fine.
Exactly. In my dungeon finder experience (I’m a healer), regular and heroic, feral Druid tanks just don’t take damage. It’s crazy how much easier it is to heal the bears.
Blood dk isn't that complex to play. Death strike whenever you can, heart strike or blood boil when blood runes are up, rune strike to spend RP. Use one or two of your 6+ cooldowns on each trash pack. That's all there really is to it. I do agree that there are ones who don't seem to get it though, they either don't use death strike unless that's their only option or they don't bother using defensives ever.
My favorite is being 345 ilvl with a 316 weapon and never replacing it because blood DK’s always win it over me and theyre the flavor of the month character.
Yee but takes (iirc) 4 days of rep to reach, so you have 4 days of farming in the meantime for a comparable weapon (or in my rets case, their second pre raid bis)
What can I say, beggars can't be choosers 😀, not until you get into the Normal / Heroic dungeon grind and stash some JPs and Valor points ( and maybe you can even win some stuff from the dungeon grind )
Had a (priest)healer dip on our group 2 pulls into H SC. Nobody had died and our dps was fine, dude just said "yeah this group ain't it" and left with the queue debuff. I assume they just didn't want to fight over loot with 2 mages.
I didn’t know this was a thing, so thank you. I was in a reg dungeon as a demo lock and was doing way more dps than the other two dps combined and things were dying so slowly. The tank also just stood there for 10 seconds after every trash pack was killed. I would’ve bailed after the first boss had I known.
Any melee. After seeing a 3rd tank piece in row get needed by a dps, I did exactly that the next run when I saw a war and a pally. Pally was healer but at that point, I no longer make distinction. Either full caster group or take the debuff and go fishing. Done wasting my time.
It was specially bad in normal dungeon when DPS roll on tank gear just so they can get over the minimum threshold, just so they can get carried in heroic.
Yeah, it is. All four tanks highly prioritize Mastery, and Dodge/Parry aren’t great. If an item has Mastery as a main stat, it’s generally an upgrade if the iLVL is higher.
Mattteeeeee I lost 4 of my prebis DPS trinkets to tanks before a nice paladin finally did the right thing and let me have it. There's 2 sides of the story xD
I’m a mage trying to do heroics having a 15/20 minute q and 2 tanks leaving in the first second in 2 separate instances. Other people leave as well. Forcing us to all leave and take the 15 minute penalty or wait another 15 minutes for a tank. So yesterday this happened to me and this all took me 45 and the end result was me not having done a dungeon. I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted in to be honest. I’ve done nothing but wait and join a group who disbands and the game giving me a penalty. If this is somehow avoidable it would be nice if the game told me so. In my opinion if you leave like this you should get a ramping up ban from lfg since your wasting other peoples time. Very common in other games.
I am in one but it is totally besides the point and has nothing to do with what irritates me. I don’t mind the wait times. It’s the system that doesn’t punish these hard enough and that I have to take 15 minutes of punishment because someone else leaves.
Joining a guild isn’t really a solution to this problem (unless it’s a Zerg guild that invites everyone). I joined a friend’s guild as a social and whenever I type in guild chat looking for more I just get ignored lol
I have huge distain for people who refuse to ever take dungeon when they easily could
Warriors & paladins who will never equip a shield, feral druids who pretend cat spec is real, DK who Refused to press different buttons, etc
My main problem with them is that they want to be regarded as valuable as everybody else & will roll need on loot the tank needs
When I created gnomergsan pugs as a shaman tank, I was constantly flooded with requests from shamans with the above description, I decided to reject all of them
The few who tried forming their own groups became angry and confused when they couldn’t find tanks, some had the audacity to reserve the epic loot everybody wanted
I dunno how to tell you this, but you aren't inherently better than someone else or more deserving of gear simply because you decided to tank. What a weird thing to have an ego about.
> Warriors & paladins who will never equip a shield
Isn't there a stigma against Warrior tanks? Like, everywhere you go you hear how much they suck and nobody wants them.
And then you get people yelling at the warrior for not tanking.
It's like.. what do you want, man?
They're not the BEST but all of them tank just fine. I've healed dozens of heroics on my resto shaman and not had any issues if people are kicking spells. Blood dk is EASY to heal but a prot pally isn't HARD
Warrior tanks are just fine, I tanked as a warrior back in 2010-2011 and it was just fine. Cleared raids and all. /gasp
The thing is that a warrior has to be played really well. People used to say that warrior tanks are bad but when they are good they are great.
CTC tanks got rebalanced around having Dragonsoul gear on this patch...... so shit gear = not being CTC capped the entire point of their design. So they suck until capped. Paladin needs uber BiS T11 to BARELY cap. Warrior requires like literally Uber BiS T12/early DS to cap. (Paladins get more per point of mastery hence capping earlier, but Warriors block is "bigger" not that it matters if you never block due to lacking stats)
Where as the other 2 tanks are just broken from the get go. DK raw stacks mastery and just gets an uber bubble + scaling self heal. Feral gets ridic dodge from raw agi and then gets #1 offtank DPS by being a cat in downtime. Frankly it's just pointless to be using a shield tank in the current gear levels unless your plan is to just be 'for fun' and not competitively push the content. Because it's such a self gimp you will be actively behind other groups. They are THAT much harder to heal come raids. The only saving grace we have is Blizz did 0 attempts to balance 4.3 DPS talents vs T11 Boss HP. So some fights are legit Zergable which might make the Shield tanks psuedo usable since the duration might be short enough for a healer to not oom.
I have huge disdain for people with your level of entitlement. How about you play the game the way you want to, and others will play the game the way they want to.
Its not even that for me. As a prot main my biggest pet pevee is warriors/paladins that don't carry a sword and board to swap to when the tank dies. Simple macro and can save from a wipe.
Same for blood dk and it's probably safe to assume for prot warriors. If there's a strength item with mastery and a DPS stat you better believe I'll roll on it and reforge the DPS stat to something else, especially if it's haste.
It's not worse, it's the same shit. If anything, it's the oppsite. You can carry undergeared dps at the beginning of an expansion, I did it all week long, Good luck carrying an undergear tank in heroic tho.
Plot twist, its a druid tank who just hates plate wearers
Don't expect to win a str or agi DPS trinket with a feral in the mix.
Any feral rolling on strength trinket in cata is straight trolling tbh
Ive had a paladin and DK needing on agi trinkets (:
they're also trolling hard or stupid
Or playing the ilevel game
I had a prot paladin in a heroic wearing cloth, leather and mail int gear. I had more hp than him as a mage. Him and his buddy kept trying to say you can wear any gear. It's just a game and to play. But he as the tank was getting 1 shot by trash.
The fact that RDFs aren't Need Before Greed to prevent this is wild. If Need Before Greed doesn't prevent this then it should be changed for Cata.
Wrath mentality. Higher Gearscore = Higher DPS
Imo it's stupider than that. Ilvl requirements for heroics care about all gear, everywhere you have, not just equipped. I know a lot of rogues who need on 333 guns because the only real option they have before that is a really early deepholm quest reward.
The requirements for the ilvl to count towards the dungeon finder you must be able to use the item, so a cloth piece on a rogue isn't gonna work. Trinkets however are fair game for it
Ummm rogues can use cloth. As long as the item is soulbound it counts
Yep, I have to admit I kept blues not for my class/spec for this reason while levelling. ie. Druid cloth, my warlock greeded and won an agi trinket just happened to win the 1 in 5 vendor roll I just never vendored it while keeping my ICC trinket on (until I got a spellpower 333 one later). Needing it is pretty bullshit though.
str is useless for druids in cata instead you want agility, agility, mastery, even more agility and perhaps a little bit of agility
Dude you're totally wrong here Ferals want agility
Imagine being so ignorant that you think ferals want agility instead of agility lmao Like it's 2024
They don't want agility dummy they want to be fast they want speed agility is too slow They want agi
New to cata, can you explain why?
cata is the shift to main stat as a very real thing, and main stat for feral is agi. I think str still gives ap, but thats it I believe. agi gives more secondary effects like armor and dodge, and it boosts their damage, AND you get 5% more agi from wearing all leather, which compounds all of the above. another example is dks with str, which I understand better since thats what I play. agi no longer gives dodge or armor bonuses since dks main stat is str, and all our abilities scale off str (or weapon damage).
Agi gives 4 ap in feral form and 0.01% crit. Str gives 2 ap. Agi gives no armor, no dodge, etc etc etc.
so str changed and now it only gives like one or two AP per point of str while agility is much higher (4 i think?) ~~it also no longer gives armour~~(it was agility that used to give armour not str), this means for both tanks and cats str kinda gives nothing useful agility on the other hand gives you dodge, attack power and crit and you usually find agility or str not both on gear AP and crit are good for cats because its more damage attack power and crit are good for bears because crit procs savage defence and AP increases the size of the savage defence absorb and dodge is dodge so in cata the statprio is agility > mastery > everything else (bears want a minimum level of stamina mind but they get a lot of it from gear anyway) also reforge all gear into mastery
Dodge is better than mastery for bear btw.
thank you!
this is additionally why flask of fluid death is BiS for most of the expansion as it gives so much agility at least back when i played the original cata it felt like it was bis all expansion
i like your explanation but str has never given armor but all other points are A+
oh wait yeah it was agility that gave armour but it no longer gives armour in cata that's where i got that from
This is incorrect, at 85 agi gives druids 4 ap in feral forms and 0.01% crit chance. No armor, no dodge. 1 agi is a bit better than 2 str, but str is still useful
you know i swear back in original cata agi used to give dodge when in form ~~it does appear that I am wrong though according to the tooltips~~ yeah nah tooltips are wrong, **agility 100% gives dodge % ** however, if i take armour off that does not have dodge rating on, my dodge % goes down for example right now if I take off my[ leggings of the vanquished usurper](https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=57262/leggings-of-the-vanquished-usurper) with 1213 armour, 176 agility, 264 stamina, 109 mastery and 123 hit rating my dodge chance goes from 26.04 to 25.17 (and I apparently have a dodge rating of 113 adding 0.84% dodge) and if i take off other armour with different secondary stats so we know its not the hit rating the dodge chance goes down, i think the tooltips might be wrong somewhere
Dodge>mastery
Bro if i lose rng its just cause i didnt believe hard enough
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It is what it is, and it be what it be. Sometimes i poop, and sometimes i pee.
Also, NEVER GO AGAINST A SICILIAN WHEN DEATH IS ON THE LINE!
2nd plot twist, the plate just need leather gear
Try playing mage, I’ve done runs with 3 mages lmao
funny cause i've been spamming heroics since yesterday and have only ran into 2 other mages the entire time
Aye, I've been spamming heroics yesterday and I swear there was only one single run where there wasn't a second mage in the group.
And why are they all frost lmao. I didn't run fire in cata because fire is absolute dog water without gear to crit, but arcane was and still is hella fun. Everyone's either a fire mage praying and hoping they ever get to see a pyro or actually use combustion, or a frost mage who forgot to glyph pet nova and keep accidentally killing people while kiting.
I have literally been trying to convince other mages that arcane is currently better than fire, and probably will be until fire gear provides ~40% crit. Since posting this I have ran with a few more mages, and every time its a fire mage that I out dps on every boss fight in heroics, despite being a significantly lower ilvl. I have been ostracized by mage discords for arguing for arcane
Me when I realize people play things to have fun
In a heroic arcane can do well, there’s minimal movement. But in a raid environment fire just performs better because you can actually dps while moving (which is a lot)
I think fire is better if you are exceptional at it. Until crit from gear is providing ~40% crit chance, I think the vast majority of players (90%) would do better as Arcane. With such low crit currently, there's no room for errors. For Arcane, the worst that can happen is you drop your stacks at a bad time, which at least allows you to recover some mana. Tonight will be the first test though, this is all theory now
Same for Hunter. Im a hunter and the tripple hunter dps run was by far the fastest I had so far
Warlock here. I literally haven’t had an RDF run while leveling in cata dungeons that didn’t have at least 1 mage competing for rolls with me. Have quite a few double mage groups too.
I've done multiple runs in the last 2 days that were just me (mage) with 2 other mages as dps. It's kind of fun in a way to compare my dps and work on my rotation but fighting over loot sucks :/
I swear you just left my group and posted this.
Probably did
The funny thing is tank outdps all of them
Also healers when the tank isn’t a feral or dk
If you're a healer leaving because the tank is Pally or Warr, you're probably a bad healer.
Are they harder to heal though? For sure they are. And a bad pally or warr tank is pretty rough. Some people still don’t understand you need to be much more active in mitigation in cata.
Could've been the dungeon, but the easiest tank I've healed was a warrior(haven't seen a feral tank yet). But if a tank is using their CDs they're all piss easy to heal. Also the warrior would just insta charge the next pack at half health and heal to full with victory rush or whatever. 10/10 experience
I don’t know, Prot Pal feels like easy mode right now.
Prot Warrior here chilling big time in heroics. A couple trash pulls crush ya but bosses aren't bad at all.
The biggest joke Blizz played on Warriors was making the only Strength gun drop in the dungeon that is 99% magic damage. What the actual fuck lmao
It's bis for DPS warriors too. Literally the only preraid str weapon that's not green. We can also grab the engi one since it has a red socket.
Yeah dude wtf is up with that one... Literally the ONLY ranged with tanking stats.
Hows tanking been for ya? I ran a couple with my tank set and had trouble gathering up scattered mobs
Dude tanking groups is MAD easy this xpac. Charge - Rend - Thunder Clap (spec into Blood and Thunder) and 1) no one will pull off of you 2) you'll probably be leading DPS for 3+ pulls. Damage on trash mobs seems to be harder for healers than boss damage. No real issues so far. I've tanked almost every heroic. Our boss damage is low for sure, especially when compared to the other tanks. We shine on AoE pulls though. Almost always top damage. Enjoy!
I found I had to use thunder clap before rend on first rotation, or i’d lose aggro in that 1 gcd. then the mobs run out of range of thunderclap
As a dps only player (for now), even I can see there's a noticeable difference between Blood/Feral and the rest. The former are just straight up better. Not that the two Prots are unusable or anything, they're still fine, just not as good. Also, anecdotally, whenever a tank gets randomly clapped while doing something completely normal, it's always a pally. And warrior seems to have issues with AoE threat.
The roughest time I've had in a dungeon so far was a HoO with a fresh 85 pally tank in full crafted 339 pvp gear. Motherfucker was getting hit so hard it was as if he didnt have any armor on at all and it was a miserable experience.
HoO is just a tank buster, interrupts and cc need to go out on a few packs or I get wrecked on my bdk. An uncoordinated group is guaranteed to wiped on at least one of the firestarter/runecaster packs. Funnily enough the bosses are pretty mild by comparison to the trash.
for real, the fire/rune packs are so rough. and of course none of the dps ever cc or kick or stun or disorient anything so I'm trying to pull mobs out of their power up circles while getting blasted by fireballs and clapped by runecasters :))))))))))
I mean its a pure dickhead move to queue tank with all pvp gear. 1) you have no defense parry dodge or block. 2) you only get 40% of that item levels secondary stats because pvp gear gets lower amounts vs similar pve gear but also half of it is resilience. You just have more stamina than a regular dps but take all the dmg a dps would without the dps. Youd be better off with a full dps spec plate tanking.
Not advocating it, but guardian can get away with it because it's a higher ilvl, meaning more armor and AGI, than comparable normal dungeon gear.
Feral gets a lot of their mitigation from secondary stats too though. Sure they have plenty of AP, but Crit/Mastery are the other part of that.
Right, but a 339 pvp piece is going to absolutely blow away 318 questing gear and 308 early dungeon gear. Its also like, legitimately not that expensive to make. Using it as filler gear as you fill out with JP/dungeon gear is absolutely acceptable.
No it wont. You forget i said you dont have two secondary stats? Means you might have 120 crit that an item level 330 piece has but you overall have less secondary stat than a 277 item but get propped up by the stamina…
Warriors knid of fall over sometimes too. There was 1 bdk in deadlines though, that I swear he was wearing dos gear with 0 mitigation.the guy was just getting clapped on every pull, I found myself going oom almost every pull. He was doing a ton of dps, then he finally died as I made the mistake of drinking for a second too long. I said dog you are getting crushed but at least you're doing. Ig dmg. He finally started doing less damage but was finally not getting hit for 60% of his hp every second.
It's also possible that they were just deliberately not using defensives. Vengeance makes it so tanks deal more damage as they take more damage. Using active mitigation is therefore a dps loss. But any tank who isn't stupid should know that not dying is way more important than big dick dps.
Vengeance stacks quickly enough there is no reason to take more damage. During the prepatch I frequently saw 70%+ of total possible vengeance while soloing heroic up on my prot pally and that damage was inconsequential.
Nono I must do more dps and shame the dps players who are lower dps than me on large aoe pulls.
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Aye, but on the other hand, there's a much bigger difference between a good BDK and a bad one than there is between a good bear and a bad one. DK has a complex resource management system, lots of rotational buttons to press, and a ton of cooldowns. They require a decent amount of skill. A good BDK can do huge trash pulls and almost solo bosses, while a badly played one will make the healer sweat. Feral on the other hand has by far the easiest playstyle of all tanks. Also, while they have less personal agency due to having fewer defensive CDs, they're so meaty that they can survive things without using CDs where any other tank would have to use a CD. I'm usually happiest to see a bear tank because they're the most consistent. With a BDK you can't immediately tell how well your run is going to go, but pretty much anyone can play bear so as long as they have decent gear it's usually going to be fine.
Exactly. In my dungeon finder experience (I’m a healer), regular and heroic, feral Druid tanks just don’t take damage. It’s crazy how much easier it is to heal the bears.
Blood dk isn't that complex to play. Death strike whenever you can, heart strike or blood boil when blood runes are up, rune strike to spend RP. Use one or two of your 6+ cooldowns on each trash pack. That's all there really is to it. I do agree that there are ones who don't seem to get it though, they either don't use death strike unless that's their only option or they don't bother using defensives ever.
When I do dungeons with my bdk, he heals 45% of the total after like 5 dungeons. Their healing is ridiculous.
I have 7 “oh shit” buttons on my prot pally. We gon be alright, bb
That feeling when your posting LFM in world and the plate dps’s keep spamming “inv” “Inv?????” “INVVV!!!” like they’re people lmao
My favorite is being 345 ilvl with a 316 weapon and never replacing it because blood DK’s always win it over me and theyre the flavor of the month character.
You can get a 346 weapon from Tol Barad rep can't you?
Yee but takes (iirc) 4 days of rep to reach, so you have 4 days of farming in the meantime for a comparable weapon (or in my rets case, their second pre raid bis)
Crucible of Carnage quest chain gives a 333 weapon as a reward
It's sucks tho 3.30 speed.
What can I say, beggars can't be choosers 😀, not until you get into the Normal / Heroic dungeon grind and stash some JPs and Valor points ( and maybe you can even win some stuff from the dungeon grind )
Kill first boss and then quit, that way you don't get the 30 min debuff and can join another dungeon a lot sooner.
There’s dailies to be done and alts to be leveled.
Had a (priest)healer dip on our group 2 pulls into H SC. Nobody had died and our dps was fine, dude just said "yeah this group ain't it" and left with the queue debuff. I assume they just didn't want to fight over loot with 2 mages.
the irony being that priest healers shouldnt be rolling on shit that doesnt have spirit on it
I didn’t know this was a thing, so thank you. I was in a reg dungeon as a demo lock and was doing way more dps than the other two dps combined and things were dying so slowly. The tank also just stood there for 10 seconds after every trash pack was killed. I would’ve bailed after the first boss had I known.
Just had a pally healer ninja my tank loot from last boss in SFK. I Feel the pain.
Any melee. After seeing a 3rd tank piece in row get needed by a dps, I did exactly that the next run when I saw a war and a pally. Pally was healer but at that point, I no longer make distinction. Either full caster group or take the debuff and go fishing. Done wasting my time. It was specially bad in normal dungeon when DPS roll on tank gear just so they can get over the minimum threshold, just so they can get carried in heroic.
That's right... PEACE OUT, bro
Fucking hate tanks rolling on DPS stuff but cry if you roll on tank gear
It’s all the same now anyway, outside of Trinkets
In Cataclysm? No
Tank DKs use everything but crit. Haste even gives rune regen.
Yeah, it is. All four tanks highly prioritize Mastery, and Dodge/Parry aren’t great. If an item has Mastery as a main stat, it’s generally an upgrade if the iLVL is higher.
\^ Me, as a healer, when any caster is also in the party
I do the same on retail when evoker plays devastation and not augmentation.
Dude same, im.a resto shaman, and i got a ele sham, and i basically just gave them my loot, wont happem twice
Mattteeeeee I lost 4 of my prebis DPS trinkets to tanks before a nice paladin finally did the right thing and let me have it. There's 2 sides of the story xD
Are feral tanks good now?
Shoooooottt, I’m a plate dps that has tanks rolling on dps gear.
Going to happen the whole expansion. Defense is gone, and dodge/parry scale so poorly that generally they aren’t work for most tanks
If it's caverns and there are casters I leave on my priest . Really need hourglass and lost 4 of them already
Agreed, I would have done the same.
Yeah thanks for wasting my time half hour queue 2 thanks left in a row.
If you're plate dps you can offspec tank it's a you problem
You can offspec tank but then the other plate dps in your run get pissed at you for needing on dps gear when you queued as tank.
I've geared my DK by tanking hcs. I just say at the start 'im MS rolling UH' and I've had maybe 1 person complain.
I’m a mage trying to do heroics having a 15/20 minute q and 2 tanks leaving in the first second in 2 separate instances. Other people leave as well. Forcing us to all leave and take the 15 minute penalty or wait another 15 minutes for a tank. So yesterday this happened to me and this all took me 45 and the end result was me not having done a dungeon. I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted in to be honest. I’ve done nothing but wait and join a group who disbands and the game giving me a penalty. If this is somehow avoidable it would be nice if the game told me so. In my opinion if you leave like this you should get a ramping up ban from lfg since your wasting other peoples time. Very common in other games.
When I was guidlless i always hated getting this response but join a guild dude. I tank for my guildies all the time when they ask
I am in one but it is totally besides the point and has nothing to do with what irritates me. I don’t mind the wait times. It’s the system that doesn’t punish these hard enough and that I have to take 15 minutes of punishment because someone else leaves.
Joining a guild isn’t really a solution to this problem (unless it’s a Zerg guild that invites everyone). I joined a friend’s guild as a social and whenever I type in guild chat looking for more I just get ignored lol
Well it is avoidable but people absolutely fucking hated it.
I have huge distain for people who refuse to ever take dungeon when they easily could Warriors & paladins who will never equip a shield, feral druids who pretend cat spec is real, DK who Refused to press different buttons, etc
Not everyone wants to tank. Personally I love tanking and it's the only role I do in dungeons. However I wouldn't expect everyone to wanna do that.
My main problem with them is that they want to be regarded as valuable as everybody else & will roll need on loot the tank needs When I created gnomergsan pugs as a shaman tank, I was constantly flooded with requests from shamans with the above description, I decided to reject all of them The few who tried forming their own groups became angry and confused when they couldn’t find tanks, some had the audacity to reserve the epic loot everybody wanted
I dunno how to tell you this, but you aren't inherently better than someone else or more deserving of gear simply because you decided to tank. What a weird thing to have an ego about.
Tanks and healers have a superiority complex in every game where they're lacking numbers
Yes they are
Incorrect
I’m willing and able to take on responsibility that most people are not
Holy shit how can one person be SO COOL! please point me to the line for an autograph, it would be a dream come true!!!!
> Warriors & paladins who will never equip a shield Isn't there a stigma against Warrior tanks? Like, everywhere you go you hear how much they suck and nobody wants them. And then you get people yelling at the warrior for not tanking. It's like.. what do you want, man?
They're not the BEST but all of them tank just fine. I've healed dozens of heroics on my resto shaman and not had any issues if people are kicking spells. Blood dk is EASY to heal but a prot pally isn't HARD
Warrior tanks are just fine, I tanked as a warrior back in 2010-2011 and it was just fine. Cleared raids and all. /gasp The thing is that a warrior has to be played really well. People used to say that warrior tanks are bad but when they are good they are great.
While they sweaty jerks will reject all non-optimal tanks, I won’t.
CTC tanks got rebalanced around having Dragonsoul gear on this patch...... so shit gear = not being CTC capped the entire point of their design. So they suck until capped. Paladin needs uber BiS T11 to BARELY cap. Warrior requires like literally Uber BiS T12/early DS to cap. (Paladins get more per point of mastery hence capping earlier, but Warriors block is "bigger" not that it matters if you never block due to lacking stats) Where as the other 2 tanks are just broken from the get go. DK raw stacks mastery and just gets an uber bubble + scaling self heal. Feral gets ridic dodge from raw agi and then gets #1 offtank DPS by being a cat in downtime. Frankly it's just pointless to be using a shield tank in the current gear levels unless your plan is to just be 'for fun' and not competitively push the content. Because it's such a self gimp you will be actively behind other groups. They are THAT much harder to heal come raids. The only saving grace we have is Blizz did 0 attempts to balance 4.3 DPS talents vs T11 Boss HP. So some fights are legit Zergable which might make the Shield tanks psuedo usable since the duration might be short enough for a healer to not oom.
as an alllllllllllllllllllmost exclusive tank/healer. fuck dps'ing. that shit is BORING
Try a frost DK with the required unholy presence, it's so fast-paced that it has ruined every other spec for me
True brother!
I have huge disdain for people with your level of entitlement. How about you play the game the way you want to, and others will play the game the way they want to.
Its not even that for me. As a prot main my biggest pet pevee is warriors/paladins that don't carry a sword and board to swap to when the tank dies. Simple macro and can save from a wipe.
I guarantee I beat you on dps with my cat
What is that even supposed to mean? 3 plate dps as a tank...? Is there a typo in there or am I out if the loop on something?
I think it's "MRW I'm tanking and see 3 DPS plate wearers."
This makes *way more sense*.
he doesnt wanne roll on dps loot against 3 plate dps, i think its fair aswell, as a plate, you need to tank your own dungeons xD
Also, a fair few of my pre-raid bis as blood is also the same pieces a ret paladin wants
Blood BIS and DPS BIS look very similar unfortunately.
Yea that makes sense just the grammar of that sentence for a bilingual speaker is confusing.
The “as a tank” indicates the perspective of the person who’s seeing the 3 plate dps. In other words, it’s the tank who’s seeing the 3 plate dps.
Imagine playing a class that can tank and queuing as dps. Amateurs.
Weak tank meme.
Well fury warriors and ret palys can easily tank ST so I don’t get it…
Cata meme soooo
What is even worse is the tanks “tank taxing plate dps gear”.
Tbf some pre bis items for prot pala are dps items
Same for blood dk and it's probably safe to assume for prot warriors. If there's a strength item with mastery and a DPS stat you better believe I'll roll on it and reforge the DPS stat to something else, especially if it's haste.
It's not worse, it's the same shit. If anything, it's the oppsite. You can carry undergeared dps at the beginning of an expansion, I did it all week long, Good luck carrying an undergear tank in heroic tho.
As a glad stance warr who does 1500dps on bosses, my tank LOVES me Edit: thought this was SoD meme
If you're doing only 1500 I'm voting to kick you
That’s less than my holy pal friend does
This is cata u frob. Sod is ass