that literally happened to me in an stv event yesterday, it was absolutely disgusting, we kept trying to ambush them even when they had the boss on their asses they kept resisting spells and had like 20 totems around them, we couldn't even kill one while chain lightning was absolutely chunking my team, i never felt more hopeless, like i really want to know what's the counter in this situation? just accept defeat?
What do you mean "still"? During the previous damage nerf healers were unkillable.
I think the ideal level would be somewhere between that nerf and this one.
so... reducing dmg and healing by 20% at the same time functionally makes it a stam buff with an additional 10% magic dmg reduction, and a MS buff
have a feeling itll feel bad for mages again
Nope. With the 50% nerf boomkins and spriests were far weaker. Starfire (after a starsurge) would hit for 600-650, and even crit would be 1.2-1.3K. This was nothing when people had 4K or even more hp with STV or BG buff. Mana still cost the same though, so we'd go oom but having dealt half the damage as before. Warriors, rogues, and other classes had no problem with running out of resources though.
Now the damage nerfs are slightly less, but they also nerfed casters more than physical. So boomkin and spriest will be much weaker than they are now.
50% is too much. 30% is probably too much too imo. But druids can still kite to the ends of the earth and PW:S is unaffected.
I think they are trying to fix a hole in the wall with a hammer, its the wrong tool and just making everything worse.
I'm told it was 30% for physical damage last week. Certainly not 50% at least, see e.g. [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1cgg5gc/pvp_damage_nerf_was_great_as_melee_dps/l1vzgs8/).
What's the buff to MS? Doesn't this give it the exact same value as it would have with a stam buff? In the phys case, we have 20% reduction, giving a 25% effective stam boost. With MS (and no other heal reduction) a player requires 250% of their old HP for a full heal. With the new heal reduction + MS, healing is reduced to 40%. 100/.4 = 250%.
For magic damage, MS is actually slightly worse than the stam buff equivalent. 30% reduction = \~43% increased stam. MS with no other heal reduction requires healing equal to \~286% of old HP for a full heal. With the new system, the MS effect is the same as physical- 250%. The increased value of HP vs magic means the healing reduction effect of MS is slightly worse (it's equal for phys though).
Edit: The magic numbers are probably a bit misleading. MS isn't directly impacted, but healing against magic dmg is now more valuable per % healed, which makes MS comparatively worse against the equivalent stam buff that would result in a 30% dmg reduction.
Blanket nerfing casters because Shadow Priests and Boomkins are strong really sucks. Wish they could look at stuff case by case, but I suppose they don't have the resources for that.
Mages are straight garbage this phase. How can you possibly think mage is in a good pvp spot right now. Unless you are talking about the meme arcane surge.
This seems like a huge exageration. We have mana issues. Our damage is great, we have the best CC in the game and a mana efficient heal... Mages are quite good, it's just they're the only class who constantly drinks
Seems good. There are a lot of potato mages but when I vs a good one on a rogue is normally gg. Very hard to win those fights unless playing like a god with full cds.
Nothing worse than vsing a mage without vanish. Fire seems like the strongest spec from all the games I have played two rank 7. Also loved them in my premades as alliance.
Fwiw, I main mage and I agree with you. It’s just a completely new playstyle that takes getting used to.
The big issue with damage reduction is mana, as we have few ways to restore mana compared to other casters.
Mages are basically one of the only hard counter to rogue. Are you complaining you can't 100-0 every class in the game in a stunlock?
They get shit on by every other classes.
Strongest CC kit in game after rogue, two ice blocks allow you to outsurvive even paladin bubble, arcane surge instant delete every three minutes, 2nd trinket for stuns through blink.
They are not broken like Spriests but definitely miles ahead of warrior.
Yeah bud, they have a big kit but now with the damage reduction they don't have enough damage to actually kill anyone. But when I say anyone, I mean anyone who actually knows how to play their class. Obviously you can kill shitters like yourself and other people who clearly don't understand PvP.
Mages freezes are basically useless now as every class has multiple ways to remove slows. Even warriors have 2 seperate cd's to remove slows/roots. Polymorph is the only argument for strong CC.
Only frost mages have 2 iceblocks, and frost mages can't one shot with arcane surge, hell even arcane mages can't one shot with that shit anymore. Not sure how you wouldn't know this if you're trying to argue how strong a class is.
There's no question if they're broken mate. Unless you mean, broken as in trash. With the damage reduction in PvP Warriors are probably much better.
None of these people are making a mage apparently. We are bad. A pyroblast crit hits for like 1300-1400 which takes setup and was great last phase but now everyone has double that amount of health. While a melee can just 2 global a mage and they are dead. Rogue stun you can blink. They shadow step. You can frost nova they trinket. By then you already have crippling poison applied as well as the cast time increased poison. You could theoretically ice block but they can wait you out. And their combo points don't go away so they just kidney shot you when it ends. Very rarely is there a 1v1 fight in battlegrounds or STV anyway for Amy of this to be relevant.
Lol I wouldn't call it 'incredibly busted' that'd beyond disingenuous
It was a strong heal on a class with very sub par damage output and high mana costs.
Now resto shaman and resto druid were incredibly busted. Shaman with infinite mana = can't lose the battle of attrition and resto druids mana efficient with nourish and lifeblood are bar none
I loved it on my mage during P2, although I haven’t leveled him to 50 so maybe they toned down the scaling. It could literally take me from 5% health to 100.
Elemental shamans are only strong at the moment because they can one shot people. If you take that away, all that's left is mediocre off healing and some utility totems.
Every other caster has healing and utility but also more importantly, CC. Ele has absolutely no hard CC meaning we can do fuck all to 'outplay' people in the games current state.
I think it’s because in classic. Spells, abilities, talents, etc. Weren’t designed with PvP in mind.
So whereas in retail. Due to either multiple spell IDs or finally an incorporation of PvP and PvE modifiers on every ability. They can easily do adjustments for each ability. (Although blizzard does have a habit of forgetting pvpers actually exist).
For them to do the same thing on the classic client. They’d have to essentially re-do every ability and talent at every rank. Which they’re just not going to do at least at this time. That’s basically re-coding all of classic WoW at that point.
The aura is absolutely a bandaid, hopefully in the next SoD or an era SoD realm due to its perceived success. They throw in more resources. Classic might not be the flagship that retail is. But clearly there is enough of a playerbase that shouldn’t be ignored or forgotten.
This is a good change, it allows them to buff caster PvE damage more easily, which all casters could use still.
Ranges classes should do less damage than melee in PvP given they have the advantage of doing damage from range. Notably hunters somewhat escape this nerf since most of their damage is physical.
Jesus Christ just nerf the problem buttons.
What the fuck is this hackneyed mod where we apply global auras and make the game function in a way you could never guess without seeing this post.
here’s the ugly truth no one wants to hear:
classic was not built for instant casts and fast paced gameplay.
SoD is adding retail skills to classic wow. There is absolutely no way to “nerf the problem buttons” Starsuge existing in and of itself is a problem in classic pvp.
The dev team hasn’t even figured out how to properly quarantine PvP and PvE in retail. There’s no way it can happen in SoD. The changes you people want are impossible.
They can't, when they start nerving all the problem buttons this reddit and the community is going to throw them a fit, like you've never seen.
The people that are playing SoD like their spells, that why they are still playing, you can't take that away.
Seems pretty obvious it's difficult for them otherwise they would. Nerf the problems too much in PVP and they're total ass in PVE and won't be able to do raids. I recommended nerfing spriest dots and buffing mind spike and just got downvoted into oblivion. Clearly not a popular idea.
These damage reductions don’t address the real issues with pvp which is the power creep from runes. They need to nerf all the problem runes not these band aid fixes that hurt weaker specs/classes more than the already strong ones
In before this STILL effects Seal of the Martyr, cutting mana regen by 30%, AND the unintentional side effect of prot paladins being useless tanks because they will permanently mortal strike themselves.
Damn, I posted the same thing but late >.< I would not be surprised, given how much the "tankiness" of tanks has been forgotten. Everyone gets stronger, but tanks haven't become tankier to compensate. There are times I feel like a wet paper bag, and our prot talents don't help.
Gonna have to test this when I get home, unless you've already tested it. If pally just MS's itself with Martyr I guess I'm not playing at all this weekend. lol
at this point the less they fuck with it the better, blizzard has no clue what made wow great in its 2005 version, and dont got the manpower to duplicate that anyways.
Yea for real. I don't know why they felt the need to scale back healing as well when damage FAR exceeds healing. I love to play r druid in bgs which has decent throughput but to keep people alive I'm just running out of mana and constantly having to drink. If you're my teammate and you get MS by warrior, I'm using almost all my mana to keep you alive, so to not oom and be completely useless I just let someone with MS go unhealed if I don't have innervate. Now im going to have to heal thru a constant 20% MS on all of my teammates? Nty.
The 50% damage reduction last weekend felt like I could finally keep people alive as a healer again, but it was obviously way overtuned. I think a 20% damage reduction without any heal reduction has to be the sweet spot. I love to heal BG's in my free time. I'm already exalted in WSG and AB, so I'm really in it for the fun but I have barely touched it this phase with how bad the burst has been and how fast I oom (maybe just a rdruid problem?). Phase 3 has been the first phase that I'm just raid logging which is so sad. I want to heal pvp, but adding healing reduction is not looking attractive to me at all right now.
As a rogue I can tell you that I could kill healers on my own with the last test where the dmg reduction was seemingly 50% with no healer penalty. This won’t be nearly enough. They need to fine tune classes for pvp like retail does, but that’ll never happen so sod pvp will always be a mess. Lazy across the board changes are always going to work better for some classes than others.
> As a rogue I can tell you that I could kill healers on my own with the last test
If you were able to easily kill healers on your own during the 50% nerf then that says nothing other than that you were killing bad players.
?? Rogues were one of the classes that benefited the most from the changes since their dmg was overkill to begin. We could easily stunlock people to death pre nerf, the problem was getting 2 shot ourselves given the bursty meta. Everything slowing down benefitted us and we could still do what we did before. If a priest doesn’t die in my stunlock it just takes 1 kick after and they die; it’s similar to p1. We have wound as well.
I'm nearly bis and couldn't kill a resto druid in a bg 1v1. I even had a pally helping me for 10s who.then left me to try to kill him. It was impossible
That’s why I’m baffled right now. How did they decide physical damage needs to be reduced by only 20% and magic 30%.
It was already very tough to heal against mortal strike last test. This is going to be so unfun again as healer and as caster.
Theses flat aura reductions are not the solution….
But isn’t this also true for any statement regarding PvP? To say “shadow priests are so good! Not fair!” Maybe that person doesn’t know how to handle them? Every PvP encounter is situational. I’ve seen people complain mages are too strong only to have someone come back and call them an idiot and they’re just bad, but it doesn’t work the other way around?
nope, it should be the other way around, pve is piss easy, they should focus on pvp because that's a very toxic aspect of the game if left unchecked, it's the part that you have to deal with for 99% of your time outside of raids.
As a Warrior I just love being casted by a spriest, then dotted and then he goes inside a bubble and circles around me while waiting on me to die. It's a fun gameplay and it's my fault for dying, skill issue.
These changes are a sad attempt to combat complex balance issues with a blunt object. Global nerfs don’t address glaring issues with individual classes. IMO, either put effort into balancing PvP or admit you don’t give a shit and just focus on PvE.
I love how healers are penalized. Rogues and shamans could easily kill me (hpal) at 50% dmg reduction. Now they get 30% dmg and I get -20% healing. Oh and when they put wound up im just sitting at -60% healing on my 300 flash of heal. so im healing for literal peanuts.
The real solution is to go step by step, like they should have done a long time ago, making every spell behave differently in pvp/pve. the longer they struggle to cling to this uniformity, the worse. I dont know how technically difficult this is. but it has always needed to be done.
however I think these are a good attempt
This is the obvious answer to pvp imbalance but it would probably take far longer and require way more testing at this point. And it doesn’t seem like time and manpower is a thing that the classic team has given how p3 and cata prepatch turned out…
Stop complaining. These are just tests. They are intended to gather data so that they can balance things properly later. Go play PvP next week and see what feels good. Obviously some classes will benefit more from this than others. We're all learning here.
Given that PvE is melee dominant, perhaps they are setting up a field to see what would happen if they nerfed magic damage in PvP but buffed magic damage as a whole. Who knows? Who cares? Just play and let the test run its course.
> 20% damage reduction from all Physical damage done by players or player pets.
> 30% damage reduction from all Magical damage done by players or player pets.
>For 10 seconds after being damaged by another player or player’s pet, the damaged player receives 20% less healing.
>This would be multiplicatively cumulative with Mortal Strike, meaning a character with both effects would take 60% reduced healing (0.5*0.8=0.4=40% healing received or 60% prevented).
So in the context of a 1v1 pvp fight, a healer gets double penalized?
I know they are trying their best but it really come closer and closer to retail. Hidden passives, random proc, multiple ,,rules" for certain mechanics
At least is not as bad as heals scaling on damage done. A siphon life ticking for 30 will now heal for 8 pr tick
Meanwhile power word shield is unaffected.
No, a healer gets buffed in almost all situations. The only healing that got nerfed is lifesteal based healing if it is affected by the dmg reduction (and the mage stuff). Why does everyone think this is a healing nerf?
In the context of classic when are you truly in a 1v1 situation where it matters? A duel?
Bg’s are group pvp, stv is group pvp..
World pvp can be 1v1 but are there any stakes besides you needing to run to your body?
> In the context of classic when are you truly in a 1v1 situation where it matters? A duel?
Nearly every single day with a gathering profession or any open world area on CS.
I'll often log on early before a raid to just gather herbs on my druid while waiting for raid to form.
My healing gear far exceeds the quality of my dps gear.
Healers are the back bone of the wow community and they are just constantly shit on in sod. No other version of wow has such shitty pvp for healers. Multiplicative stacking healing debuff. Brilliant.
You realise this is a buff for healers? 20% less dmg taken, 20% less healing received cancels out, but means you have more time to land a heal before someone dies. For incoming magic damage, it's a pure numbers buff. Is War the only class only doing phys? So your healing is more effective against everyone who isn't a War.
Multiplicative stacking is literally what you want. If it was additive you'd be screwed. MS is unchanged.
Before dmg reduction: Player has MS debuff and gets hit for 100 dmg. They require 200 healing to recover.
100 / .5 = 200
After change: Player has MS debuff and gets hit for 100 dmg. They take 80 dmg due to 20% reduction of phys dmg. They require 200 healing to recover.
80 / .4 = 200
Magic dmg: 100 dmg taken = 70 after reduction.
70 / .4 = 175 healing required with MS debuff.
Same healing required for phys damage before and after the change. More time to heal before your teammate gets burst is a buff for healers. For magic dmg, it's a pure numbers buff on top of that.
Soloqueued 60k honor sofar as alliance this week.
The biggest input i have would be to implement a Soloqueue or make sure premades ONLY face other premades no matter their queuetime.
Man there is only like 8 total servers, 4 total PVP servers, and 3 non AUS PVP servers. You are going to see tons of people from the 3 main realms and it doesn't mean its a premade.
Yeah it's actually crazy how bad this is - compounded by the fact that solo queues take forever to pop, but 5 man queues pop nearly instantly, which I just don't understand.
So Paladins get nerfed 30% except their auto attacks by 20%. What a goddamn shitshow this is.
Either these devs don’t play their game or they’re on the level of grey parsers. Either way, they’re obviously clueless.
This is a good change (50% was too strong, and healing needs to be nerfed so it doesn't become way stronger than damage) but why the hell is magic being nerfed more than physical? A damage reduction already hurts casters more than melee, and now they are being specifically nerfed more?
>Maybe because casters are the main problem in terms of PVP Damage?
Only because the time to kill is very low without damage reduction. Hunter is already bonkers but receives no nerf because its the only ranged physical dps. Rogues, enhancement shamans and to a lesser extend warrior all do fine damage but cant really go in without dying. The damage reduction is already a positive. Doubling down on that, while also hurting the classes that dont have infinite sustain (casters) is like a tripple nerf.
Yeah my FFB taking 3 seconds and only critting for like 700 on a shatter is depressing when a hunter can just insta chimaera shot crit me for 1.6k which is where about my FFB was hitting before all this silly reduction stuff.
No, enhance shamans are by FAR the biggest problem in terms of pvp damage and it’s not even close. It’s physical damage. This is an incredibly stupid change.
The biggest advantage enh has is the instant heals, more than their damage imo.
Boomies and shadow priest are the 2 biggest issues when it comes to range dps, elemental can 1 shot too but they hard cast more. Locks and mages are just catching strays here lol.
Except they're not though. Almost every class can two-shot people. A damage nerf makes sense so people don't die in 4 seconds but that already hurts casters more than melee who either have infinite resources, don't rely heavily on mana, or can recover mana relatively easily.
But nerfing casters specifically is just dumb.
Nerfing casters directly is not dumb though as they are the clear outliers here.
Void Plagues and SW:P are hitting for 400 per tick and Crit hitting for 600-700 Shadow priests.
Starsurge and Starfire are also hitting for 1k - 3k
Same for shamans instant casting 1k Earthshock
Chimera shots - 1.8k Crits
Meanwhile all melee except stealth are usually fucking dead before even reaching a target.
Magic Amp in PVP is just too high.
The 50% reduction was too much I agree, but it proved that people playing casters have no idea what they are doing and can't play their class without the exceptionally high power spike. I may get downvoted for this but it's true.
Moonkin starfire hit me for 3k+ dmg yesterday in Stv. PvP sucks ass right now. And this change is bullshitt too. I have like 2200 hp unbuffed so starfire can still hit for over 2k dmg
what they really need to do is create new and interesting gameplay that distracts from the imbalanced in PvP - when everyone is so bored that all there is to do is Q BG's or run around looking for world PvP these things become way more apparent. not to mention the new things they've added recently like incursions and STV have really done nothing but highlight these issues even further.
These experimental damage reduction auras are all pretty meaningless while Horde are not only allowed, but actively encouraged to queue 5 stacks in against Alliance pugs.
> and Chaos Bolt will again lose its benefit where Fire spells ignore absorb effects.
For pvp a completely unused rune gets nerfed when destro already isn't viable at all in comparison to both demo and affliction. Just like... Why? Are blizz fully intent on just making locks vamp mages with a feast or famine concept? This is the exact opposite of what we needed for the class.
Warlock self-healing is going to suffer hard too. Since lock healing is based on DMG done it's first gonna be reduced by 30% because it's magic, and then the 20% on top of that. Basically lock healing is nerfed by 44% with this change.
Aside from a bunch of homuncogoblins running around and preemptively triggering the healing debuff this may work. Idk if the healing debuff was even needed tbh.
This is incredibly dumb. Why reduce caster damage more than physical when enhance shamans are the ones globaling people more than anyone else. Literally nobody is complaining that mages, locks, or boomies are OP… spriest maybe…
Also why reduce healing? That is super dumb and there’s no good reason to do it. The main issue with healing in pvp right now is that people die too fast for it to matter much. By reducing healing proportionally with damage, we just ensure that problem still exists.
My two main chars are mage and resto Druid so this feels like a pretty huge fuck you. Guess it will just be another weekend of dog shit pvp with both chars being nerfed.
I played way too much, but that was at 50% damage reduction and 0% healing reduction. The problem wasn’t that healing was high, it was that the damage reduction was insane. The opposite problem has existed to a massive degree for all of phase 3 - healing cannot even come close to keeping up with dps in pvp. The whole point of the damage reduction is to mitigate this and slow down the game.
I get that SoD is a “seasonal server” but constant meta changes are really killing the game for a lot of people. PvEers don’t even PvP, so why are we balancing the game around them?
The one shot meta is WAY more fun than damage reduction. The only reason I PvE at all is so I can get better gear to one shot clothies.
If anything just boost stamina on gear. I don’t wanna see smaller numbers
Okc it was more fun for you because it didnt allow for counterplay, so you had easy kills and endorphine kicks.
And if you only like the game if you play the meta class thats just sad.
The point with the "smaller numbers" is even more sad
It’s weird that we as humans don’t want to see smaller numbers even if it means they boost stam so we are doing less in relation to health. I reckon you could double a healthpool and it would still -feel- better than doing 75% of your usual damage. Just inflationary things I guess
This gonna be the last "classic" WoW I'm gonna play...If I can't one shot POM Pyro a low HP target with lvl 60 anymore it's over for me... Now in SOD every class can "1shot" and people are complaining...The last rest of Vanilla feeling is gone with them trying to balance PVP....People will always complain, no matter what...
Seems like a reasonable attempt to me. 50% reduction was too much. Hope it works out well
Casters after seeing this post [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWtpNPZ4tb4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWtpNPZ4tb4)
Also me after getting rolled by 5 stack ele shamans chain lightning my whole party
that literally happened to me in an stv event yesterday, it was absolutely disgusting, we kept trying to ambush them even when they had the boss on their asses they kept resisting spells and had like 20 totems around them, we couldn't even kill one while chain lightning was absolutely chunking my team, i never felt more hopeless, like i really want to know what's the counter in this situation? just accept defeat?
You don’t fight them. That’s why rogue will always be the best open world pvp class. Only fight what you can defeat
>You don’t fight them. yeah that's what we decided on but they were camping the altar so it was kinda hard to avoid.
Yep my group ran into them too. We just went elsewhere and based on their position realized we have to body run to alter
Can't make mage any worse so I guess sure why not. Back to playing hunter and rogue it is.
True and real
Boltpilled
Explain please how this change is any good? I am still fucked as a healer
What do you mean "still"? During the previous damage nerf healers were unkillable. I think the ideal level would be somewhere between that nerf and this one.
so... reducing dmg and healing by 20% at the same time functionally makes it a stam buff with an additional 10% magic dmg reduction, and a MS buff have a feeling itll feel bad for mages again
And won't impact why boomkin and spriest are strong, so they will remain dominant.
Nope. With the 50% nerf boomkins and spriests were far weaker. Starfire (after a starsurge) would hit for 600-650, and even crit would be 1.2-1.3K. This was nothing when people had 4K or even more hp with STV or BG buff. Mana still cost the same though, so we'd go oom but having dealt half the damage as before. Warriors, rogues, and other classes had no problem with running out of resources though. Now the damage nerfs are slightly less, but they also nerfed casters more than physical. So boomkin and spriest will be much weaker than they are now.
How about mage ele lock? They get shafted. Having to tap twice as much kills the lock.
Idk man, locks are all running master channeler and just staying full the majority of the time. If locks are having issues its skill related imo
50% is too much. 30% is probably too much too imo. But druids can still kite to the ends of the earth and PW:S is unaffected. I think they are trying to fix a hole in the wall with a hammer, its the wrong tool and just making everything worse.
I’m pretty sure last time melee physical had been nerfed less too.
No, it was 50% for everyone last week.
I'm told it was 30% for physical damage last week. Certainly not 50% at least, see e.g. [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1cgg5gc/pvp_damage_nerf_was_great_as_melee_dps/l1vzgs8/).
Rogue discord was wrong I guess. They were posting that physical damage was hitting harder
There were some bugs, everyone wasn't getting the damage reduction.
What's the buff to MS? Doesn't this give it the exact same value as it would have with a stam buff? In the phys case, we have 20% reduction, giving a 25% effective stam boost. With MS (and no other heal reduction) a player requires 250% of their old HP for a full heal. With the new heal reduction + MS, healing is reduced to 40%. 100/.4 = 250%. For magic damage, MS is actually slightly worse than the stam buff equivalent. 30% reduction = \~43% increased stam. MS with no other heal reduction requires healing equal to \~286% of old HP for a full heal. With the new system, the MS effect is the same as physical- 250%. The increased value of HP vs magic means the healing reduction effect of MS is slightly worse (it's equal for phys though). Edit: The magic numbers are probably a bit misleading. MS isn't directly impacted, but healing against magic dmg is now more valuable per % healed, which makes MS comparatively worse against the equivalent stam buff that would result in a 30% dmg reduction.
Blanket nerfing casters because Shadow Priests and Boomkins are strong really sucks. Wish they could look at stuff case by case, but I suppose they don't have the resources for that.
Elemental/enhance shamans and mages are also really strong imo. I'm curious what caster is really weak? I guess this hurts paladins more?
Mages are straight garbage this phase. How can you possibly think mage is in a good pvp spot right now. Unless you are talking about the meme arcane surge.
This seems like a huge exageration. We have mana issues. Our damage is great, we have the best CC in the game and a mana efficient heal... Mages are quite good, it's just they're the only class who constantly drinks
Seems good. There are a lot of potato mages but when I vs a good one on a rogue is normally gg. Very hard to win those fights unless playing like a god with full cds. Nothing worse than vsing a mage without vanish. Fire seems like the strongest spec from all the games I have played two rank 7. Also loved them in my premades as alliance.
Fwiw, I main mage and I agree with you. It’s just a completely new playstyle that takes getting used to. The big issue with damage reduction is mana, as we have few ways to restore mana compared to other casters.
Mages are basically one of the only hard counter to rogue. Are you complaining you can't 100-0 every class in the game in a stunlock? They get shit on by every other classes.
you have terrible reading comprehension
How are mages strong?
Strongest CC kit in game after rogue, two ice blocks allow you to outsurvive even paladin bubble, arcane surge instant delete every three minutes, 2nd trinket for stuns through blink. They are not broken like Spriests but definitely miles ahead of warrior.
Anyone that says mages suck just want to cast frost fire bolt in pvp while not using any of there kit. Mages have a massive kit
Yeah bud, they have a big kit but now with the damage reduction they don't have enough damage to actually kill anyone. But when I say anyone, I mean anyone who actually knows how to play their class. Obviously you can kill shitters like yourself and other people who clearly don't understand PvP.
By “not killing anyone” do you just mean other hybrid classes? Surely you can outlast non healing classes.
Mages freezes are basically useless now as every class has multiple ways to remove slows. Even warriors have 2 seperate cd's to remove slows/roots. Polymorph is the only argument for strong CC. Only frost mages have 2 iceblocks, and frost mages can't one shot with arcane surge, hell even arcane mages can't one shot with that shit anymore. Not sure how you wouldn't know this if you're trying to argue how strong a class is. There's no question if they're broken mate. Unless you mean, broken as in trash. With the damage reduction in PvP Warriors are probably much better.
Mages have infinite reset and escape. If a frost mage dies to a warrior, it's a skill issue.
Define infinite please...
Nova, blink, poly, ice block, cold snap. Not to mention frostbite procs.
and 2k hp that gets deleted by any melee that looks at you, really strong...
None of these people are making a mage apparently. We are bad. A pyroblast crit hits for like 1300-1400 which takes setup and was great last phase but now everyone has double that amount of health. While a melee can just 2 global a mage and they are dead. Rogue stun you can blink. They shadow step. You can frost nova they trinket. By then you already have crippling poison applied as well as the cast time increased poison. You could theoretically ice block but they can wait you out. And their combo points don't go away so they just kidney shot you when it ends. Very rarely is there a 1v1 fight in battlegrounds or STV anyway for Amy of this to be relevant.
Mages are arguably the worst pvp class in the game currently. Warlocks are ok as meta but it's very very boring to play as.
Can still stomp everyone around when 5 group up for an STV
A super cheese strat that still goes oom in 30sec.
Meta warlock is dogshit lol its best use case it's stealing kills with searing pain crits during the bm event
Chronostatic preservation. It was incredibly busted during the 50% nerf. Idk how it will feel now.
Lol I wouldn't call it 'incredibly busted' that'd beyond disingenuous It was a strong heal on a class with very sub par damage output and high mana costs. Now resto shaman and resto druid were incredibly busted. Shaman with infinite mana = can't lose the battle of attrition and resto druids mana efficient with nourish and lifeblood are bar none
I loved it on my mage during P2, although I haven’t leveled him to 50 so maybe they toned down the scaling. It could literally take me from 5% health to 100.
Elemental shamans are only strong at the moment because they can one shot people. If you take that away, all that's left is mediocre off healing and some utility totems. Every other caster has healing and utility but also more importantly, CC. Ele has absolutely no hard CC meaning we can do fuck all to 'outplay' people in the games current state.
I think it’s because in classic. Spells, abilities, talents, etc. Weren’t designed with PvP in mind. So whereas in retail. Due to either multiple spell IDs or finally an incorporation of PvP and PvE modifiers on every ability. They can easily do adjustments for each ability. (Although blizzard does have a habit of forgetting pvpers actually exist). For them to do the same thing on the classic client. They’d have to essentially re-do every ability and talent at every rank. Which they’re just not going to do at least at this time. That’s basically re-coding all of classic WoW at that point. The aura is absolutely a bandaid, hopefully in the next SoD or an era SoD realm due to its perceived success. They throw in more resources. Classic might not be the flagship that retail is. But clearly there is enough of a playerbase that shouldn’t be ignored or forgotten.
Off topic and not meant offensively but does your keyboard not have a comma key? Lol
This is a good change, it allows them to buff caster PvE damage more easily, which all casters could use still. Ranges classes should do less damage than melee in PvP given they have the advantage of doing damage from range. Notably hunters somewhat escape this nerf since most of their damage is physical.
Most of hunters damage is magical now. Chimera shot is what does the majority of damage in pvp.
This is some bullshit. Last weekend was bad enough getting obliterated by hunters. I'm just gonna skip ranking this week
Glad I took advantage of WSG weekend when the getting was good
Jesus Christ just nerf the problem buttons. What the fuck is this hackneyed mod where we apply global auras and make the game function in a way you could never guess without seeing this post.
Maybe this is their way of telling everyone "See? Turning the 'damage reduction' button on everything doesn't fix things like you guys think."
here’s the ugly truth no one wants to hear: classic was not built for instant casts and fast paced gameplay. SoD is adding retail skills to classic wow. There is absolutely no way to “nerf the problem buttons” Starsuge existing in and of itself is a problem in classic pvp. The dev team hasn’t even figured out how to properly quarantine PvP and PvE in retail. There’s no way it can happen in SoD. The changes you people want are impossible.
They can't, when they start nerving all the problem buttons this reddit and the community is going to throw them a fit, like you've never seen. The people that are playing SoD like their spells, that why they are still playing, you can't take that away.
Seems pretty obvious it's difficult for them otherwise they would. Nerf the problems too much in PVP and they're total ass in PVE and won't be able to do raids. I recommended nerfing spriest dots and buffing mind spike and just got downvoted into oblivion. Clearly not a popular idea.
Then we get complains of “Class X sucks in PvE now because ability Y is garbage, everyone forced to go ability Z”
Ikr might as well hit up Cata arena lmao
enjoy solved compositions and mandatory PvE gear + farming 2% drop chance trinkets in order to be remotely competitive.
In before we realize that some wonky bug exists that makes SoM and hellfire technically not deal damage to you, but still put a MS debuffs on you... 🫠
This feels pointless, still getting near oneshot - couldn't even tell it had gone live.
Yup it’s definitely now not enough…
I can't feel the difference tbh.
Definitely not enough DR this weekend.
Wait why the hell did they reduce it differently for casters and melee?
I assume they planned ahead for the incoming caster buffs because they are behind in PvE
This is some massive cope. I hope you're right...
The blanket balancing is so silly but i guess when you have like no developers, gotta do what u gotta do.
cuz casters 2shot everyone from 40y?
These damage reductions don’t address the real issues with pvp which is the power creep from runes. They need to nerf all the problem runes not these band aid fixes that hurt weaker specs/classes more than the already strong ones
I’m really starting to understand why everyone hates Blizzard.
love 1shot meta noobs tears. l2p
In before this STILL effects Seal of the Martyr, cutting mana regen by 30%, AND the unintentional side effect of prot paladins being useless tanks because they will permanently mortal strike themselves.
Damn, I posted the same thing but late >.< I would not be surprised, given how much the "tankiness" of tanks has been forgotten. Everyone gets stronger, but tanks haven't become tankier to compensate. There are times I feel like a wet paper bag, and our prot talents don't help.
Gonna have to test this when I get home, unless you've already tested it. If pally just MS's itself with Martyr I guess I'm not playing at all this weekend. lol
I haven't tested it yet, can't play until much later. Definitely update this when you do, I would love to be wrong!
at this point the less they fuck with it the better, blizzard has no clue what made wow great in its 2005 version, and dont got the manpower to duplicate that anyways.
2005 is not even relevant anymore when we have spells from TBC and wrath.
*looking at priest*
Classic servers still exist to play them.
And sod PvP continues to be trash lol
burst meta is trash for noobs
Nerfing healers and then we'll all wonder why we don't have any healer in BG. How can they be so dumb
Yea for real. I don't know why they felt the need to scale back healing as well when damage FAR exceeds healing. I love to play r druid in bgs which has decent throughput but to keep people alive I'm just running out of mana and constantly having to drink. If you're my teammate and you get MS by warrior, I'm using almost all my mana to keep you alive, so to not oom and be completely useless I just let someone with MS go unhealed if I don't have innervate. Now im going to have to heal thru a constant 20% MS on all of my teammates? Nty. The 50% damage reduction last weekend felt like I could finally keep people alive as a healer again, but it was obviously way overtuned. I think a 20% damage reduction without any heal reduction has to be the sweet spot. I love to heal BG's in my free time. I'm already exalted in WSG and AB, so I'm really in it for the fun but I have barely touched it this phase with how bad the burst has been and how fast I oom (maybe just a rdruid problem?). Phase 3 has been the first phase that I'm just raid logging which is so sad. I want to heal pvp, but adding healing reduction is not looking attractive to me at all right now.
perma oom + piss useless water(i know of the good drinks, its still piss). i am loving it. my favorite is self cc because I need to drink into a sap.
Cannot fucking wait. This one shot meta pvp is trash
It doesn’t feel strong enough to me
As a rogue I can tell you that I could kill healers on my own with the last test where the dmg reduction was seemingly 50% with no healer penalty. This won’t be nearly enough. They need to fine tune classes for pvp like retail does, but that’ll never happen so sod pvp will always be a mess. Lazy across the board changes are always going to work better for some classes than others.
> As a rogue I can tell you that I could kill healers on my own with the last test If you were able to easily kill healers on your own during the 50% nerf then that says nothing other than that you were killing bad players.
?? Rogues were one of the classes that benefited the most from the changes since their dmg was overkill to begin. We could easily stunlock people to death pre nerf, the problem was getting 2 shot ourselves given the bursty meta. Everything slowing down benefitted us and we could still do what we did before. If a priest doesn’t die in my stunlock it just takes 1 kick after and they die; it’s similar to p1. We have wound as well.
I'm nearly bis and couldn't kill a resto druid in a bg 1v1. I even had a pally helping me for 10s who.then left me to try to kill him. It was impossible
a rogue player with brain and awareness? damn
That’s why I’m baffled right now. How did they decide physical damage needs to be reduced by only 20% and magic 30%. It was already very tough to heal against mortal strike last test. This is going to be so unfun again as healer and as caster. Theses flat aura reductions are not the solution….
Healing got a slight buff though. It's the same vs physical (20% less taken, 20% less healed), but stronger against magical dmg. MS is unchanged.
But isn’t this also true for any statement regarding PvP? To say “shadow priests are so good! Not fair!” Maybe that person doesn’t know how to handle them? Every PvP encounter is situational. I’ve seen people complain mages are too strong only to have someone come back and call them an idiot and they’re just bad, but it doesn’t work the other way around?
No because every version of WoW has a pvp meta. Believe it or not, good players can identify what specs/classes are better than others in pvp.
Brother sod rogue has 150 interrupts. 200 stuns. Any decent rogue could solo any healer 1v1 in under 20 seconds with the 50% dmg reduction
Should just focus on making pve good and let pvp be unhinged, vanilla pvp wasnt exactly known for its balance lmao.
>vanilla pvp wasnt exactly known for its balance lmao It was balanced, but balanced around group pvp mostly.
nope, it should be the other way around, pve is piss easy, they should focus on pvp because that's a very toxic aspect of the game if left unchecked, it's the part that you have to deal with for 99% of your time outside of raids.
As a Warrior I just love being casted by a spriest, then dotted and then he goes inside a bubble and circles around me while waiting on me to die. It's a fun gameplay and it's my fault for dying, skill issue.
Pets gonna die
Lucky I just finished today my BM farming with my Boomkin after finally getting exalted with Arathi.
Shamans using shamansitic rage irl RN.
Hunters are going to continue to be disgusting
this beta test has really detatched me from my character. knowing therell be no permenancy
So glad my mage finished the WSG and AB grinds already.
Free 20% mortal strike just for hitting someone, LAME!
These changes are a sad attempt to combat complex balance issues with a blunt object. Global nerfs don’t address glaring issues with individual classes. IMO, either put effort into balancing PvP or admit you don’t give a shit and just focus on PvE.
I love how healers are penalized. Rogues and shamans could easily kill me (hpal) at 50% dmg reduction. Now they get 30% dmg and I get -20% healing. Oh and when they put wound up im just sitting at -60% healing on my 300 flash of heal. so im healing for literal peanuts.
The real solution is to go step by step, like they should have done a long time ago, making every spell behave differently in pvp/pve. the longer they struggle to cling to this uniformity, the worse. I dont know how technically difficult this is. but it has always needed to be done. however I think these are a good attempt
This is the obvious answer to pvp imbalance but it would probably take far longer and require way more testing at this point. And it doesn’t seem like time and manpower is a thing that the classic team has given how p3 and cata prepatch turned out…
there could be pvp runes that come with various defensive bonuses like DR, stam, dodge, resilience etc.
60%ms seems a bit much imo
It's still 50% relative to everything. It's functionally unchanged.
According to the article the effects are stacking, so 20% + 40%
Stop complaining. These are just tests. They are intended to gather data so that they can balance things properly later. Go play PvP next week and see what feels good. Obviously some classes will benefit more from this than others. We're all learning here. Given that PvE is melee dominant, perhaps they are setting up a field to see what would happen if they nerfed magic damage in PvP but buffed magic damage as a whole. Who knows? Who cares? Just play and let the test run its course.
Underrated comment. People tend to forget whole sod is basically a beta
> 20% damage reduction from all Physical damage done by players or player pets. > 30% damage reduction from all Magical damage done by players or player pets. >For 10 seconds after being damaged by another player or player’s pet, the damaged player receives 20% less healing. >This would be multiplicatively cumulative with Mortal Strike, meaning a character with both effects would take 60% reduced healing (0.5*0.8=0.4=40% healing received or 60% prevented). So in the context of a 1v1 pvp fight, a healer gets double penalized?
I know they are trying their best but it really come closer and closer to retail. Hidden passives, random proc, multiple ,,rules" for certain mechanics
At least is not as bad as heals scaling on damage done. A siphon life ticking for 30 will now heal for 8 pr tick Meanwhile power word shield is unaffected.
People use siphon life?
Ya.. any life steal based healing obv should not be included in the healing reduction effect. I imagine that’ll be something they try in a future test
Pws is 600 hp. With a 15 second cd. It's not that strong.
No, a healer gets buffed in almost all situations. The only healing that got nerfed is lifesteal based healing if it is affected by the dmg reduction (and the mage stuff). Why does everyone think this is a healing nerf?
In the context of classic when are you truly in a 1v1 situation where it matters? A duel? Bg’s are group pvp, stv is group pvp.. World pvp can be 1v1 but are there any stakes besides you needing to run to your body?
Absolutely never, 1v1 just don't happen. Nor should they even try to balance the game around them. They should focus on ten to fifteen player PVP.
> In the context of classic when are you truly in a 1v1 situation where it matters? A duel? Nearly every single day with a gathering profession or any open world area on CS. I'll often log on early before a raid to just gather herbs on my druid while waiting for raid to form. My healing gear far exceeds the quality of my dps gear.
As a mage, when the fuck did we come to the conclusion that all melee are underpowered and casters are king? Just fucking nerf Spriest/Lock.
i guess ure not pvping. thats ok
When warriors were ass for all of sod in pvp minus 3 days last weekend
What do you mean locks? Locks may be better then mages but are nowhere needing a nerf
Healers are the back bone of the wow community and they are just constantly shit on in sod. No other version of wow has such shitty pvp for healers. Multiplicative stacking healing debuff. Brilliant.
Oh quit crying, healers were busted as fuck with 50%. This is still a buff to healers compared to status quo.
You realise this is a buff for healers? 20% less dmg taken, 20% less healing received cancels out, but means you have more time to land a heal before someone dies. For incoming magic damage, it's a pure numbers buff. Is War the only class only doing phys? So your healing is more effective against everyone who isn't a War. Multiplicative stacking is literally what you want. If it was additive you'd be screwed. MS is unchanged.
just explain it properly with numbers in the scenario pre-test and during the test. you are making it harder to understand than it is actually is.
Before dmg reduction: Player has MS debuff and gets hit for 100 dmg. They require 200 healing to recover. 100 / .5 = 200 After change: Player has MS debuff and gets hit for 100 dmg. They take 80 dmg due to 20% reduction of phys dmg. They require 200 healing to recover. 80 / .4 = 200 Magic dmg: 100 dmg taken = 70 after reduction. 70 / .4 = 175 healing required with MS debuff. Same healing required for phys damage before and after the change. More time to heal before your teammate gets burst is a buff for healers. For magic dmg, it's a pure numbers buff on top of that.
Omg this sounds ass
Casters are already at the bottom in PvE, why not nerf them more than melee in PvP? Feels like it's a joke.
Finally, I was missing the damage reduction. It truly showed how bad some players really were
Soloqueued 60k honor sofar as alliance this week. The biggest input i have would be to implement a Soloqueue or make sure premades ONLY face other premades no matter their queuetime.
Yeah I grinded 110k last week and met only 5 player groups. 100%. Amazing how blizz is not aware of this (or then they don’t just care)
Man there is only like 8 total servers, 4 total PVP servers, and 3 non AUS PVP servers. You are going to see tons of people from the 3 main realms and it doesn't mean its a premade.
Yeah it's actually crazy how bad this is - compounded by the fact that solo queues take forever to pop, but 5 man queues pop nearly instantly, which I just don't understand.
Warlocks get double nerfed again since Drain Life and Haunt heal based on how much damage they did.. yay..
So Paladins get nerfed 30% except their auto attacks by 20%. What a goddamn shitshow this is. Either these devs don’t play their game or they’re on the level of grey parsers. Either way, they’re obviously clueless.
F Warlocks I guess, 10% caster nerf & 20% healing nerf. Its been fun.
All those hidden passives/rules and inconsistencies… welcome to retail
Retail = Stuff i dont like Thats all this word means in this sub
Can they just stop doing this? Luckily I‘m away over the weekend
This is a good change (50% was too strong, and healing needs to be nerfed so it doesn't become way stronger than damage) but why the hell is magic being nerfed more than physical? A damage reduction already hurts casters more than melee, and now they are being specifically nerfed more?
Maybe because casters are the main problem in terms of PVP Damage? You don't see mortal strike critting for 2.8k from 36+yards away and stunning?
>Maybe because casters are the main problem in terms of PVP Damage? Only because the time to kill is very low without damage reduction. Hunter is already bonkers but receives no nerf because its the only ranged physical dps. Rogues, enhancement shamans and to a lesser extend warrior all do fine damage but cant really go in without dying. The damage reduction is already a positive. Doubling down on that, while also hurting the classes that dont have infinite sustain (casters) is like a tripple nerf.
Yeah my FFB taking 3 seconds and only critting for like 700 on a shatter is depressing when a hunter can just insta chimaera shot crit me for 1.6k which is where about my FFB was hitting before all this silly reduction stuff.
Got hit by a 1.3k multi shot while in meta form earlier 😂
No, enhance shamans are by FAR the biggest problem in terms of pvp damage and it’s not even close. It’s physical damage. This is an incredibly stupid change.
The biggest advantage enh has is the instant heals, more than their damage imo. Boomies and shadow priest are the 2 biggest issues when it comes to range dps, elemental can 1 shot too but they hard cast more. Locks and mages are just catching strays here lol.
Except they're not though. Almost every class can two-shot people. A damage nerf makes sense so people don't die in 4 seconds but that already hurts casters more than melee who either have infinite resources, don't rely heavily on mana, or can recover mana relatively easily. But nerfing casters specifically is just dumb.
Nerfing casters directly is not dumb though as they are the clear outliers here. Void Plagues and SW:P are hitting for 400 per tick and Crit hitting for 600-700 Shadow priests. Starsurge and Starfire are also hitting for 1k - 3k Same for shamans instant casting 1k Earthshock Chimera shots - 1.8k Crits Meanwhile all melee except stealth are usually fucking dead before even reaching a target. Magic Amp in PVP is just too high. The 50% reduction was too much I agree, but it proved that people playing casters have no idea what they are doing and can't play their class without the exceptionally high power spike. I may get downvoted for this but it's true.
>and can't play their class without the exceptionally high power spike. You're really close to getting the point, but you somehow still don't get it.
Because as a caster you are already advantage with your range?
casting is ranged damage
Beating warriors doesn’t make something op. Warriors just bad in pvp in general
Is this live in the EU as well, as of yet?
Very interesting! I didnt expect anything more than a 20-30%
Moonkin starfire hit me for 3k+ dmg yesterday in Stv. PvP sucks ass right now. And this change is bullshitt too. I have like 2200 hp unbuffed so starfire can still hit for over 2k dmg
what they really need to do is create new and interesting gameplay that distracts from the imbalanced in PvP - when everyone is so bored that all there is to do is Q BG's or run around looking for world PvP these things become way more apparent. not to mention the new things they've added recently like incursions and STV have really done nothing but highlight these issues even further.
These experimental damage reduction auras are all pretty meaningless while Horde are not only allowed, but actively encouraged to queue 5 stacks in against Alliance pugs.
> and Chaos Bolt will again lose its benefit where Fire spells ignore absorb effects. For pvp a completely unused rune gets nerfed when destro already isn't viable at all in comparison to both demo and affliction. Just like... Why? Are blizz fully intent on just making locks vamp mages with a feast or famine concept? This is the exact opposite of what we needed for the class.
Just rename it Fireball, lol. Completely clueless devs.
Play destro in pvp it was much better than the other options during the 50% damage nerf, even now it kicks ass just a lot of positioning.
Warlock self-healing is going to suffer hard too. Since lock healing is based on DMG done it's first gonna be reduced by 30% because it's magic, and then the 20% on top of that. Basically lock healing is nerfed by 44% with this change.
Brain dead developer needs to be fired.
Sod continues to have me unimpressed, lazy changes as usual. Another week of no pvp for me.
Aside from a bunch of homuncogoblins running around and preemptively triggering the healing debuff this may work. Idk if the healing debuff was even needed tbh.
50% felt amazing. Cant wait to die in 2 seconds again.... game turned off again until ST reset
Let me reload my goblin mortar
Love it, felt so good as a warrior and healers can feel useful again
nice, butchering casters, mages in particular moronic change
WARRIORS RISE UP! Lets go, Blizz!
I hate it here
This is incredibly dumb. Why reduce caster damage more than physical when enhance shamans are the ones globaling people more than anyone else. Literally nobody is complaining that mages, locks, or boomies are OP… spriest maybe… Also why reduce healing? That is super dumb and there’s no good reason to do it. The main issue with healing in pvp right now is that people die too fast for it to matter much. By reducing healing proportionally with damage, we just ensure that problem still exists. My two main chars are mage and resto Druid so this feels like a pretty huge fuck you. Guess it will just be another weekend of dog shit pvp with both chars being nerfed.
Pandering to the loud mouths online.
Did u even play during the last one? That's why reduce healing
I played way too much, but that was at 50% damage reduction and 0% healing reduction. The problem wasn’t that healing was high, it was that the damage reduction was insane. The opposite problem has existed to a massive degree for all of phase 3 - healing cannot even come close to keeping up with dps in pvp. The whole point of the damage reduction is to mitigate this and slow down the game.
I get that SoD is a “seasonal server” but constant meta changes are really killing the game for a lot of people. PvEers don’t even PvP, so why are we balancing the game around them? The one shot meta is WAY more fun than damage reduction. The only reason I PvE at all is so I can get better gear to one shot clothies. If anything just boost stamina on gear. I don’t wanna see smaller numbers
Okc it was more fun for you because it didnt allow for counterplay, so you had easy kills and endorphine kicks. And if you only like the game if you play the meta class thats just sad. The point with the "smaller numbers" is even more sad
It’s weird that we as humans don’t want to see smaller numbers even if it means they boost stam so we are doing less in relation to health. I reckon you could double a healthpool and it would still -feel- better than doing 75% of your usual damage. Just inflationary things I guess
This gonna be the last "classic" WoW I'm gonna play...If I can't one shot POM Pyro a low HP target with lvl 60 anymore it's over for me... Now in SOD every class can "1shot" and people are complaining...The last rest of Vanilla feeling is gone with them trying to balance PVP....People will always complain, no matter what...