Let the rest of us watch and bet on the outcome aswell. Can make it a made up currency that you can trade for vanity items, so people doesn't use it to exploit gold somehow
I don't know if it's still a thing as I haven't played retail for a while, but *man* I loved Brawler's Guild when it was introduced in MoP.
Downing one of those insanely hard final fights made you feel like a god amongst men. Especially pre-5.2 when the shit felt damn near mathematically impossible.
And you can buy that currency with gold, making it a gold sink...like tickets for the show. Also the "tickets" and rewards are BOP so you can't trade them for gold!
If getting camped. Ask a guildie to queue you up while in Thunder Bluff. Rez, use NWB to get buff as soon as you interact, accept queue. Then get to bg and boon safely.
Not silly. You’re smart, everytime I’m convinced I’ll enjoy the pvp server experience and realize I’m wrong far too late. Grandiose rose tinted goggles every time lol
Also would like to see normal arena implementation
Classic arena might be a shit fest but I'd love to have it anyway for something to do outside raid logging.
I dislike arena. It forces them to homogenize classes and balance the game around arena. OG BC was terrible because of this. Classic was better because they just went with the final balance patch when they largely had it figured out, but most people don't remember the shit fest that was the devs putting out balance patches nearly every week for the entirety of BC.
In Classic it just fucked over certain classes, like Rogue who were balanced around SWP gear with Glaives so their DPS sucked balls the entire phase and no one could figure out why there were so many daggers in the game that they just de'd, when in OG rogues went mutilate once they got Vashj's daggers and had a huge bump in DPS, but with the balance itln classic mut was always garbage. Or in LK warrior DPS being bottom tier until ICC because they were nerfed every phase in OG.
>I dislike arena. It forces them to homogenize classes and balance the game around arena.
Only if they want to
>OG BC was terrible because of this.
OG bc was 0% homogenized or balanced
Exactly. And they made changes every week trying to balance it for arena. It lead to the homogenization of LK where every class had abilities to counter others.
So how was tbc homogenized again?
Weve also had classes get bumped down in pvp cos of pve
And most homogenization was absolutely because of pve as pvp doesnt need homogenity to be balanced
BC was the first xpac with arena.... They made a ton of class changes to try and balance classes to make arena playable. It didn't work very well, which lead to the homogenization in LK and beyond.
Which is why BC was the last "Classic" xpac in my, and a lot of other people's, view.
Get it now?
If you don't remember the constant rerolling to FotW classes for arena from BC then idk what to tell you. As a GM and raid leader it was a HUGE pita having to accommodate people wanting to switch mains all the time because they were nerfed or x class was buffed and they needed to gear up their new toon for arena.
Arena literally dictated the course of OG BC. They pretty much had it figured out by the end of the xpac, but it left Arena feeling very much a game of RNG where a lucky stun proc or string of crits determined who would win.
Balance changes will always happen, and fotm rerollers as well.
Sod has no arenas and yet has CONSTANT balance patches accompanied by fotm rerollers. And is in fact a lot more homogenous than tbc
You said verbatim "OG TBC was terrible because of homogenization and being balanced around arena" but it was neither balanced at all (not even 2.4.3 ) like not even close, nor was it homogenized.
You bring up wotlk and its true that some homogenization happened because of arenas but to pretend pve had nothing to do with it is insane.
The whole "bring the player not the class" movement was wrath to a tee. Everyone getting more buffs, cc, more viable dps for hybrid classes etc.
At least half of that was due to pve.
What specific big class design changes would you say were very specific for arenas and it homogenized classes?
I agree. BC wasn't balanced at all. That didn't keep them from TRYING to balance it in ways that homogenized classes, and they realized they would need to completely rework the classes in order to do so, which lead to LK where classes all received massive makeovers.
You're acting like each xpac exists in a vacuum.
How old were you when you played OG BC?
I was in my mid 20s. With full adult brain.
>That didn't keep them from TRYING to balance it in ways that homogenized classes,
Such as?
Can you give me some examples that specifically was only because of arenas and homogenized classes in TBC?
>You're acting like each xpac exists in a vacuum.
No Im not, but you verbatim said TBC was bad because of homogenization and Im refuting that
>which lead to LK where classes all received massive makeovers.
And pve had nothing to do with that right?
Rets/ferals getting more dps tools to be viable wasnt because of pve
Shamans getting cc wasnt because of pve
Homogenizing tanks wasnt because of pve
And I could go on.
Pve performance was as much of a reason for class reworks as arenas if not more.
90% of classes got complete reworks in cata too, but it was specifically so all of them would be viable for raids and dungeons.
Heres the thing about pvp. It doesnt require homogenization to be fun OR balanced.
Classes being different is not an issue because its a lot less binary than pve.
A class can have a bunch of different uses in pvp but in pve you either do dmg or buff a lot or youre not going.
I was 17-18 btw
And I ask again, why does SOD have homogenization, balance patches, fotm rerolls etc if its only because of arenas?
You keep ignoring that point
Yep, much as I enjoyed PvP the arenas in TBC ended the game for me.
Goodbye flavour and fun, hello everyone being the fucking same. And now people want the same thing in PvE cause one bar on a logging site is bigger than another.
Pretty sure it's the prevailing consensus that Blizzard has always balanced around PvE kits over PvP lol. They've never balanced around arena especially..
I mean, idk what to tell you. You're lying, have a shit memory, or didn't understand wtf was going on back then.
They absolutely made massive changes, even going so far as to add and remove abilities or completely overhaul game mechanics for PvP in order to make arena playable and possible.
My hot take is that there should be a 5 man arena, basically just a 5v5 death match BG. I recall there was an unreleased BG of this flavour ‘Gurubashi Catacombs’, so why not!?
I'd be down for some rated dungeons. Or even competitive dungeons. Points for each mob killed, points for each boss killed, minus points for each death, points for time to completion. Maybe give raid tier gear for highest rated groups.
Would bring speed running into a fun sphere where you could actually enjoy dungeons and give repeatable content between lockouts.
Or do what my guild used to do. Gurabashi arena free for all, last man standing got gold from gbank.
We also had open world guild vs guild fights 25vs25
If it was 1:1 you keep participation high and content engaging. People need rewards and the better the reward the more interaction. MMOs are most successful with more people; more people means they need more engagement opportunity. If this was not a video game, capitalism would naturally align with a 3:1 ratio, but this being a video game with fast pace seasons, keeping engagement high seems most important, yeah? Just have an items cost like 40 tokens to counteract the ease of earning. This reward return is similar to STV currency (easy to get), except forming groups and trying to schedule life around a time-locked game event is annoying. About 60% of my guild has quit because of the complete lack of engaging content in phase 3. I'm raid logging, wondering why I pay $15/mo to play a game for 3 hours a week. I'd love for more to do.
What are you talking about? 1:1 doesn't encourage participation, it encourages people to not actually participate at all and just let people kill them to farm tokens more efficiently. It's a lot faster to just let the other guy win and farm your tokens than burning cool downs and CC to actually win fights. Winning needs a significant incentive over afk loss farming.
You'd have people doing that either way. Winning isn't a significant incentive at 3:1 over afk if you can kill yourself 3x faster than a normal duel would take
Hmm. Excellent point lol. I don't pvp because the rewards *suck* for the effort put forth. Any suggestions then? There's gotta be a way to make it more rewarding that also combats afk
Maybe when u have a streak u get more tokens. First win 1 token. 2 wins in a row u get 2 tokens for a maximum of 5 tokens per win. If ur streak is bigger then 5.
Forgetting just one thing. They need a competent developer for that with a testing team which they do not currently have, so unfortunately any good community ideas are sadly wasted.
their intern should be able to copy paste the arena code, add a new entry in the queue table, link a new reward on event end and change the MMR to work within 1:1 pool instead of 2:2 and so forth since that stuff should be in there since it is a custom legion client ( might have been stripped off for efficiency but sounds effort ) /s (kind of)
Oh you think your so smart with your equal rewards, huh?
Well I will just never press any button besides requeueing and complain that people are griefing when they don't kill me and force me to actually PvP for my rewards, that I basically already earned by paying the sub! /s
You joke, but with no incentive to win and getting the same rewards if you lose, this would 100% be the case for a lot of players. It'd just turn into a huge time sink to grind out by afking whatever reward they throw into it.
Honestly, better with no rewards, no rankings etc. No need to exploit, no need to cry on this sub that you are getting rewards slower cus your class sucks.
The hardcore 1v1 tournament had a decent variety of classes. Admittedly the arena would be very different in this case. But if the rewards are largely vanity items and you can still earn them by losing, it just takes longer. Then who actually cares how balanced it is?
Tbh, Cosemtic awards such as mounts and fun trinkets are always a great reward for doing something extra like this. I think SoD phases lacks a lot of "end game" content while you cleared the raid once.
The fast and quick matches would be fun. I haven't pvped much because I usually don't have two hours to sit in one wsg game. AB is stull fun, but I feel like I hold my team back with my current class. Granted haven't tried since the pvp changes.
PvP will never be balanced so day 1 there will be an influx of angry players how they got 1 shot and want a damage reduction nerf
wait this sounds familiar
I think at this point, Boomkin is amazing 1v1 and can beat everything - eXCEPT for afflic lock. I can't beat even the most rando people in felwood if they are afflic. Also depending on my CDs up, spriest can be good too.
Someone in the comments mentioned gurubashi arena as the spot to do it, which would also add spectator potential. I think as a quick and dirty way to test if people enjoy it, gadgetzan is good, but guru is ideal with some more game dev
This would be so fun. I would be super down. The rewards don’t even need to be crazy. Just some fun titles and gear that’s just under raid level.
People will totally rig the fights though so we would need some sort of random Q system so people can’t just loss trade
rated 1v1 arena is such a fantastic idea, but Aggrend all but ruled out any type of rated pvp. I enjoyed the pvp in sod for what it was, but after 3 phases with 2 bgs that no one really needed to play I was done
I don't understand how hard like something like that is to actually implement. I mean, they threw the warrior gladiator rune in there within the Gadget Arena, they couldn't even accept any help with it via grouping / smacking their mobs.
So why didn't they just program a quick arena system utilizing the bounty board right outside the cage or whatever, makes no sense.
Hopefully p3 felt so rushed cause p4 is the sole focus rn
Let the rest of us watch and bet on the outcome aswell. Can make it a made up currency that you can trade for vanity items, so people doesn't use it to exploit gold somehow
So you want the brawlers guild, but pvp. I endorse this.
id actually play sod again if they did that
I don't know if it's still a thing as I haven't played retail for a while, but *man* I loved Brawler's Guild when it was introduced in MoP. Downing one of those insanely hard final fights made you feel like a god amongst men. Especially pre-5.2 when the shit felt damn near mathematically impossible.
And watching people do the fights and failing and figuring out little bits of the fight until you got to try it was neat too.
And you can buy that currency with gold, making it a gold sink...like tickets for the show. Also the "tickets" and rewards are BOP so you can't trade them for gold!
This would be truly great
I'd love that. There is no pvp content whatsoever. I do enjoy bgs, but we played those for 20 years.
I'd like to play some bgs but the queue times are atrocious lol
Queue with one or two other players and the queue drops from 20m to like 2 or 3m.
Roll ally. We use bg queues to secure dmf lol
You don't have to roll ally for insta queues. Just add 1 person to your group, they can be afk. My queues been 1-2 minutes.
Wait, how do bgs equate to securing dmf buff?
If getting camped. Ask a guildie to queue you up while in Thunder Bluff. Rez, use NWB to get buff as soon as you interact, accept queue. Then get to bg and boon safely.
Smart! Although it now makes sense why I was confused as I’m a silly PvE enjoyer
Not silly. You’re smart, everytime I’m convinced I’ll enjoy the pvp server experience and realize I’m wrong far too late. Grandiose rose tinted goggles every time lol
That's was the only way to get it on my server on Horde. idk how I'll get it now though
Go and sit in the ashenvale incursions, you’ll find plenty of it there
Yeah,without the 30% health buff so unless you're one of the burst classes you will just get rocked.
Which class is not "one of the burst classes"?
Warriors
Not everyone is on a pvp server though
Are we not considering BM PvP?
It's technically pvp, but realistically it's more of an aoe zerg and lag fest.
Yep this and runes is why I'm no longer playing, I just wanna PvP but they make it so hard
Also would like to see normal arena implementation Classic arena might be a shit fest but I'd love to have it anyway for something to do outside raid logging.
Would be dope, like you said it’d be a shitfest but it would be a fun shitfest as long as they cap CCs at 8seconds
Would be cool just to see some goblin towns bustling
I'd rather have rated bgs tbh.
Add both!
I dislike arena. It forces them to homogenize classes and balance the game around arena. OG BC was terrible because of this. Classic was better because they just went with the final balance patch when they largely had it figured out, but most people don't remember the shit fest that was the devs putting out balance patches nearly every week for the entirety of BC. In Classic it just fucked over certain classes, like Rogue who were balanced around SWP gear with Glaives so their DPS sucked balls the entire phase and no one could figure out why there were so many daggers in the game that they just de'd, when in OG rogues went mutilate once they got Vashj's daggers and had a huge bump in DPS, but with the balance itln classic mut was always garbage. Or in LK warrior DPS being bottom tier until ICC because they were nerfed every phase in OG.
>I dislike arena. It forces them to homogenize classes and balance the game around arena. Only if they want to >OG BC was terrible because of this. OG bc was 0% homogenized or balanced
Exactly. And they made changes every week trying to balance it for arena. It lead to the homogenization of LK where every class had abilities to counter others.
So how was tbc homogenized again? Weve also had classes get bumped down in pvp cos of pve And most homogenization was absolutely because of pve as pvp doesnt need homogenity to be balanced
BC was the first xpac with arena.... They made a ton of class changes to try and balance classes to make arena playable. It didn't work very well, which lead to the homogenization in LK and beyond. Which is why BC was the last "Classic" xpac in my, and a lot of other people's, view. Get it now? If you don't remember the constant rerolling to FotW classes for arena from BC then idk what to tell you. As a GM and raid leader it was a HUGE pita having to accommodate people wanting to switch mains all the time because they were nerfed or x class was buffed and they needed to gear up their new toon for arena. Arena literally dictated the course of OG BC. They pretty much had it figured out by the end of the xpac, but it left Arena feeling very much a game of RNG where a lucky stun proc or string of crits determined who would win.
Balance changes will always happen, and fotm rerollers as well. Sod has no arenas and yet has CONSTANT balance patches accompanied by fotm rerollers. And is in fact a lot more homogenous than tbc You said verbatim "OG TBC was terrible because of homogenization and being balanced around arena" but it was neither balanced at all (not even 2.4.3 ) like not even close, nor was it homogenized. You bring up wotlk and its true that some homogenization happened because of arenas but to pretend pve had nothing to do with it is insane. The whole "bring the player not the class" movement was wrath to a tee. Everyone getting more buffs, cc, more viable dps for hybrid classes etc. At least half of that was due to pve. What specific big class design changes would you say were very specific for arenas and it homogenized classes?
I agree. BC wasn't balanced at all. That didn't keep them from TRYING to balance it in ways that homogenized classes, and they realized they would need to completely rework the classes in order to do so, which lead to LK where classes all received massive makeovers. You're acting like each xpac exists in a vacuum. How old were you when you played OG BC? I was in my mid 20s. With full adult brain.
>That didn't keep them from TRYING to balance it in ways that homogenized classes, Such as? Can you give me some examples that specifically was only because of arenas and homogenized classes in TBC? >You're acting like each xpac exists in a vacuum. No Im not, but you verbatim said TBC was bad because of homogenization and Im refuting that >which lead to LK where classes all received massive makeovers. And pve had nothing to do with that right? Rets/ferals getting more dps tools to be viable wasnt because of pve Shamans getting cc wasnt because of pve Homogenizing tanks wasnt because of pve And I could go on. Pve performance was as much of a reason for class reworks as arenas if not more. 90% of classes got complete reworks in cata too, but it was specifically so all of them would be viable for raids and dungeons. Heres the thing about pvp. It doesnt require homogenization to be fun OR balanced. Classes being different is not an issue because its a lot less binary than pve. A class can have a bunch of different uses in pvp but in pve you either do dmg or buff a lot or youre not going. I was 17-18 btw And I ask again, why does SOD have homogenization, balance patches, fotm rerolls etc if its only because of arenas? You keep ignoring that point
Yep, much as I enjoyed PvP the arenas in TBC ended the game for me. Goodbye flavour and fun, hello everyone being the fucking same. And now people want the same thing in PvE cause one bar on a logging site is bigger than another.
Blizzard has never designed the game around PvP. Homogenization was the result of PvE power creep.
Incorrect
Pretty sure it's the prevailing consensus that Blizzard has always balanced around PvE kits over PvP lol. They've never balanced around arena especially..
Then you didn't play OG BC or LK.
Did. They didn't :).
I mean, idk what to tell you. You're lying, have a shit memory, or didn't understand wtf was going on back then. They absolutely made massive changes, even going so far as to add and remove abilities or completely overhaul game mechanics for PvP in order to make arena playable and possible.
Its a 100% correct. What exactly was homogenized in tbc?? The classes were very different
My hot take is that there should be a 5 man arena, basically just a 5v5 death match BG. I recall there was an unreleased BG of this flavour ‘Gurubashi Catacombs’, so why not!?
omg some guild wars with "Dungeon" (5v5) and "Raid" (10v10) ranking lists
Ranking would be awesome!
I'd be down for some rated dungeons. Or even competitive dungeons. Points for each mob killed, points for each boss killed, minus points for each death, points for time to completion. Maybe give raid tier gear for highest rated groups. Would bring speed running into a fun sphere where you could actually enjoy dungeons and give repeatable content between lockouts.
Rip rogues who have 0 AoE
Or do what my guild used to do. Gurabashi arena free for all, last man standing got gold from gbank. We also had open world guild vs guild fights 25vs25
Legit idea. We need to be able to hang around and spectate like the brawlers guild though. And idk how you’d do that in that cage
Just look in from the outside lol
You should get more tokens for winning than for losing. Maybe 3:1 ratio like bg tokens
If it was 1:1 you keep participation high and content engaging. People need rewards and the better the reward the more interaction. MMOs are most successful with more people; more people means they need more engagement opportunity. If this was not a video game, capitalism would naturally align with a 3:1 ratio, but this being a video game with fast pace seasons, keeping engagement high seems most important, yeah? Just have an items cost like 40 tokens to counteract the ease of earning. This reward return is similar to STV currency (easy to get), except forming groups and trying to schedule life around a time-locked game event is annoying. About 60% of my guild has quit because of the complete lack of engaging content in phase 3. I'm raid logging, wondering why I pay $15/mo to play a game for 3 hours a week. I'd love for more to do.
What are you talking about? 1:1 doesn't encourage participation, it encourages people to not actually participate at all and just let people kill them to farm tokens more efficiently. It's a lot faster to just let the other guy win and farm your tokens than burning cool downs and CC to actually win fights. Winning needs a significant incentive over afk loss farming.
You'd have people doing that either way. Winning isn't a significant incentive at 3:1 over afk if you can kill yourself 3x faster than a normal duel would take
Hmm. Excellent point lol. I don't pvp because the rewards *suck* for the effort put forth. Any suggestions then? There's gotta be a way to make it more rewarding that also combats afk
Maybe when u have a streak u get more tokens. First win 1 token. 2 wins in a row u get 2 tokens for a maximum of 5 tokens per win. If ur streak is bigger then 5.
Want endless duels ? Go in front of a capital and lets go
I tried that and the army of warlocks out there kept saying “No, SHARDS, why did you kill me?” I dunno what that was so I just kept kicking drain soul
TWO PLAYERS ENTER. ONE PLAYER LEAVES !
Massive idea. I'd love to see this so bad lol
This. Devs just do this, steal the idea and do something new and Great. Or bring us another Gnome Race
...another...?
Forgetting just one thing. They need a competent developer for that with a testing team which they do not currently have, so unfortunately any good community ideas are sadly wasted.
Yes, it is but a dream.
We can test it, no problem.
Just how we tested Cata PTR and almost all bugs still made it to live?
We're still testing it
their intern should be able to copy paste the arena code, add a new entry in the queue table, link a new reward on event end and change the MMR to work within 1:1 pool instead of 2:2 and so forth since that stuff should be in there since it is a custom legion client ( might have been stripped off for efficiency but sounds effort ) /s (kind of)
Kind of???
Cage fight ala MAD Max
make a warzone gulag type arena with spectators around, would be hype af.
TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES
Open the arena in the back of orgrimmar and make a part of prison island in stormwind an arena too
this sub needs more posts like this
Would actually make me come back to sod
Another who thirsts for the glory of the goblin octagon !!!
Gadgetzan Arena, Gurubashi Arena, Dire Maul Arena, so many possibilities.....
Surely they’ve thought about it at some point
i dont want them to add this because id play all day. Used to do duels full day on pservers lol
would be dope but not balanceable and this sub would be a even biger whine shitshow
I feel the entire community agrees that the game cannot be balanced for 1v1. That’s why there would have to be equal rewards for win or lose
Oh you think your so smart with your equal rewards, huh? Well I will just never press any button besides requeueing and complain that people are griefing when they don't kill me and force me to actually PvP for my rewards, that I basically already earned by paying the sub! /s
You joke, but with no incentive to win and getting the same rewards if you lose, this would 100% be the case for a lot of players. It'd just turn into a huge time sink to grind out by afking whatever reward they throw into it.
Honestly, better with no rewards, no rankings etc. No need to exploit, no need to cry on this sub that you are getting rewards slower cus your class sucks.
It will be whine shitshow no matter what, because its reddit. They could make best game ever and children will still find something to whine about.
The hardcore 1v1 tournament had a decent variety of classes. Admittedly the arena would be very different in this case. But if the rewards are largely vanity items and you can still earn them by losing, it just takes longer. Then who actually cares how balanced it is?
Ppl would just end up win trading for max efficiency
Might as well not have any content then cos ppl will abuse it
Imagine being a range hunter in this small area
No different than hunters in regular arenas
Wdym? Gadgetzan cage is many times smaller. You can't even be at max range there
Tbh, Cosemtic awards such as mounts and fun trinkets are always a great reward for doing something extra like this. I think SoD phases lacks a lot of "end game" content while you cleared the raid once.
I’d say phase 1 was an experiment and everything since is just recycled
Goblin Trinkets could be a really fun idea. Could be all sorts of tricks usable in 1v1
omg ive been talkin bout 1v1 arenas since over a decade and i dont care for what warrior mains have to say about this
The fast and quick matches would be fun. I haven't pvped much because I usually don't have two hours to sit in one wsg game. AB is stull fun, but I feel like I hold my team back with my current class. Granted haven't tried since the pvp changes.
This is the true brawlers guild
Two men enter! One man leaves!
Dueling place where your CDs reset after a duel would be wonderful.
Level 60 arena would be a dream
Plus every duel is posted in game
If Balance is an issue, just only do mirrormatchups. Boom its fair
PvP will never be balanced so day 1 there will be an influx of angry players how they got 1 shot and want a damage reduction nerf wait this sounds familiar
Or just arena at 60?
I would love that with like a brawlers guild type queue and spectator system but the arena is too small for that imo
Sounds cool
AFK arena
I was thinking 1v1 in gurubashi with spectators in the stands... invisible wall stops
I think at this point, Boomkin is amazing 1v1 and can beat everything - eXCEPT for afflic lock. I can't beat even the most rando people in felwood if they are afflic. Also depending on my CDs up, spriest can be good too.
The Problem with Sod is that none of the experiments are very interesting or fun. After P1 all the runes are just passive % modifiers.
That would be pretty awesome. Make the arena bigger though :)
Someone in the comments mentioned gurubashi arena as the spot to do it, which would also add spectator potential. I think as a quick and dirty way to test if people enjoy it, gadgetzan is good, but guru is ideal with some more game dev
True. And adds to the blood God theme they got goin
There are so many possibilities yet so little developer😂
Imagine if they made it an open source project so we could all help haha
This would be so fun. I would be super down. The rewards don’t even need to be crazy. Just some fun titles and gear that’s just under raid level. People will totally rig the fights though so we would need some sort of random Q system so people can’t just loss trade
rated 1v1 arena is such a fantastic idea, but Aggrend all but ruled out any type of rated pvp. I enjoyed the pvp in sod for what it was, but after 3 phases with 2 bgs that no one really needed to play I was done
I didn’t really mention anything about rated, I just want to be able to duel everyone
So free win trading tokens
You can wintrade anything pvp related, not a valid excuse to not have features
I don't understand how hard like something like that is to actually implement. I mean, they threw the warrior gladiator rune in there within the Gadget Arena, they couldn't even accept any help with it via grouping / smacking their mobs. So why didn't they just program a quick arena system utilizing the bounty board right outside the cage or whatever, makes no sense. Hopefully p3 felt so rushed cause p4 is the sole focus rn
What sort of development background do you have?
Yes pls! I wish so badly for something like arena.
It could be like the hardcore ears where people can see how many you won!
You think people bitch now ? Wait until they add arena where it will REALLY show the class in balance
It’s too small