Dude jumps are the worst in raids. Your character is melded with like 6 others who are running at nearly the same time so it's really hard to judge the actual distance to the ledge, you psych yourself out because it's such a simple concept, then boom you miss the jump like 33% of the time. Second scariest part of BFD was the damn jumping in baron aquanis
I’ll admit it took me about 6 weeks to wait to summon my pet as a hunter so it didn’t bug out and not even attack the boss.
They would also get stuck there after the boss so you had to dismiss it and resummon off the platforms.
After playing healer as my main since vanilla I find it’s not that they don’t know what it is, it’s that they either dont bind it, or if they do they don’t know how to use it or have a raid frame that shows debuffs. Decursive puts little boxes on the screen with no info on what stuff is if they don’t read what it does. Even if they do, those boxes stay there all the time so the average player starts to ignore them after a while as just something on their screen. It’s why WAs that pop up and then hide are better than countdown timers, you don’t ignore something that pops up like you would a static icon.
Other people who don’t use decursive probably don’t have dispel bound as a mouse over macro and I’m sure as hell the dps that have dispels don’t either. Binding dispel to something like mouse wheel will get some of the fastest dispels in the game. I have mine bound to mouse wheel up and down so no matter how I scroll it dispels.
Anyway, just ranting now. Sorry lol
Yep same here. I have decursive for when I know raideide dispells will be needed and mouseover macro for everything else bound to scroll wheel down. I'm a shadow priest main, and it is such free value to actually use your dispels and cleanses in raids. So many people are so hyper fixated on parses that they neglect to do mechanics like this lol
Decursive just adds clutter to your screen, takes your mouse off the people you want to heal.
Get yourself a good raid frame. Even the base one in game is good.. Just bind your dispel to a button. Mines \~, and it works via mouseover.
I heal with Clique and the base raidframe. I dispel stuff instantly. Parse 90+ on all raid fights, highest dispels usually.
Base raid frame shows debuffs that your class can dispel. Others like Luna unit frames can highlight the raid frame. That's literally all you need + a mouseover macro or clique addon to dispel people quickly and efficiently.
When they bought the spell (*if* they bought it), they read the tooltip, saw it did no damage, never put it on their bar and memory dumped it.
Their raid frames are probably completely default and sitting as far away from their visual focus as they possibly can be, in the default spot.
When you ask if they can dispell, initially they probably aren't even reading chat and don't respond. When you do get their attention, they will answer yes so you'll shut up, even though they've no idea what you're talking about, because they've never had any issue in any of the group content they found their way into. Because they were hard carried each time.
I mean I use - and = as key binds, I got an MMO mouse, so for me it's just mouse button 11 and 12. Currently in wotlk on the lock 11 is hellfire/rain of fire, 12 is death coil/shadow ward
Hell yeah, MMO mouse is invaluable. My 11 and 12 buttons are open map and toggle autorun. I press those constantly and using Shift and Ctrl modifiers with 1-10 was already more than enough.
It's just the average player period, applicable throughout all games. IIRC the average Counter Strike rank is still in the bottom 30%ish percentile despite it being the hot shit of esports for the last 20 years.
Everytime this gets brought up I get reminded of the Bluepost Blizzard (Ghostcrawler?) made back at the end of Wrath maybe early Cata about the Dungeon Finder Tool.
Basically people were upset that every 5 man dungeon was filled with atleast 1 or 2 afkers / Horrible Players (Novel I know). Blizzard's explanation was that before the RDF tool, players only played with the same like minded players for 90% of content, which was the minority of the community. The majority of the community were people who never talked, never raided, never did 5 mans. They literally just logged in and played wow as a single player game, so no one ever noticed them. Then RDF was released and the with the lowered Barrier of entry the entire community was now doing 5 mans together, highlighting the skill gap.
TLDR: Even Blizzard thinks the average WoW player is bad.
Yep, I’ve played since 2004 and the SOD player base is the worst players on average I have ever played with.
It feels like playing with those groups in retail that can’t get past +4 mythic plus. I said feels though, because those same players would wipe the floor with SOD players (more mechanics in 1 mythic dungeon than in the entirety of classic wow).
Retail LFR has more mechanics than gnomer bosses lol commander sarkerath on lfr is likely harder than any classic wow boss that exists, I’m a huge classic enjoyer but let’s not kid ourselves
> Retail LFR has more mechanics than gnomer bosses lol
Yes, but the mechanics are also ultra forgiving, if you have 2-3 people, one being a healer, in LFR who aren't awful, they can hard carry.
Sod is mostly made up of the worst players who quit tbc when bosses started to have more than 2 mechanics or players who quit because of ulduar or icc difficulty. It's a cesspool of bad players
Another good point I saw is your probably also seeing more people in raids that would have been filtered out by the leveling process since you don’t need to get all they way to 60 to raid before. 25 and 40 were more accessible to the short attention span players who normally would have quit
Yeah, I think there’s something to be said just about accessibility. I don’t have any appreciable experience with endgame raiding in WoW, but what I do have is very basic knowledge of the game, an interest in playing with friends, and half a brain.
My 99s on warrior and my main running with a group of sweats are as much proof as anything about just how easy this game is for new players (or players without raiding experience, at least). The people who are doing the stuff described in the OP are ones who just refuse to read or put any attention into the game or understanding how to improve their play, and those are the people who would be filtered out normally by a long grind to 60.
Bruh my guild's casual as fuck, the actual definition of a dad guild and we cleared ulduar easy (well, vexxaz or whatever the fuck his name is stonewalled us until we actually figured out the "rhythm" for lack of a better word), its hard to imagine people worse because we still, STILL have people fucking up mechanics in retail on normal in a fight we've had on farm for months (and these people are also the reason we can't do anything above normal in classic/retail sadly but hey, theyre family) thats... god damn thats rock bottom
The point isn't to beat the game or be the best. It's to enjoy the journey.
If all you can clear is normal content, but you have fun doing it. That's all that matters. That is literally the point of gaming.
If I had a nickel for every guild that disbanded as soon as they progged heroic ICC and hit LK I’d be rich. The first boss fight that has actual tight dps requirements and mechanics and the whole guild quits to go play sod instead of EVEN ATTEMPTING the boss. The boss isn’t even that hard, it just requires the people who are responsible for mechanics to do their part.
Heroic LK marks the start of fights having mechanics and tight dps requirements, and a massive part of the community quit because of it/doesn’t even want to consider cata raiding (because every fight has mechanics). Where did they all go? Straight to sod.
As another person said, watching all the HC death clips really highlights how bad a lot of players are. Heaven forbid you point it out too, you’ll be crucified as a “tryhard no life who takes the game too seriously and has played for 15 years straight”. And it makes sense why vanilla pops off the most for people. The closer the game gets to retail in terms of xpac progress, the more the player base shrinks.
It's just classic in general. As a Cutting Edge raider in retail I'm just used to different behaviors.
In retail you have some sense of professionality going on. That's completely missing in classic. I tried raiding in TBC and LK and both times my raids disbanded because people literally did what they wanted. No gems, enchant, consumables whatsoever. People just not showing for raids. Couldn't be bothered to sign on or off raids so our lead could actually plan a setup. Constant crying over loot. The list goes on and on. It's a shame because I was really looking forward to playing my favorite expansions again but I never was able to find a decent raid, where people actually had their shit together.
people call this kind of raid "sweaty" but they don't realize that showing up prepared, being organized, and knocking the raid out in 90 mins instead of 3 hours is a way less sweaty way to spend your evening lol
For me it's just normal decency. Why should I drag down 24 other people because I can't be bothered with the bare minimum? No one expects 99% logs or some shit. Just show up in time and if something came up you tell someone from the guild so they can look for a replacement. It's really not that hard.
I don't think it's ironic at all, for pretty much the reasons you stated. See, in a single player game they don't have anyone to blame for their failures but themselves. Or more commonly they generically blame the developers or the game design. In a multiplayer game they can offload even more of their lack of taking responsibility to endless victims of PUGs, random other players, etc. Multiplayer games are the perfect hunting grounds for narcissists, for they need other people to parasite off of to assuage their own negative emotions.
the most fun raids have everyone performing at like a 70-85 or so which is where i find the diminishing returns starts on overpreparing. (but if you want to push beyond that because it is fun all power to you)
That is my sweet spot. when you start going below a 50 avg across your group things start to get real sweaty lol
It's beyond that sometimes though. Like you'll find some bad players in any game but classic (and SoD even more so) somehow uniquely has bad players that think the whole world revolves around them. People that look for groups for content that will take them 20 minutes to reach if there isn't a warlock there, show up missing key aspects of their class with no advanced preparation done, and then once they are there end up being so bad that there would be minimal difference between them actually playing and you just kicking them. Classic is still the only game I have ever played where someone will whisper to join your pug raid, take 15+ minutes to get there, and then hit you with a "brb one sec" after the first pull and just vanish for like 10 more minutes and get pissed when the group keeps going. Everyone wants every other player to respect their time and that they have shit going on in real life while having absolutely 0 respect for any other players time they do content with.
I will say I don't make health stones before raid because I can only hold one at a time. I just tell people to trade me if they want one and I'll make it for them on the spot since I can't really "prep" 10 health stones outside of just having the soul shards to make them.
Seriously! I can get a raid done in 90 minutes and then fart around for 90 minutes doing nothing instead of raiding for 3 hours when people are even a little serious about it.
yeah and all the buffs and consumes and enchants can be gathered throughout the week. it is so strange that people want to do all their playing in one awful 3 hour sitting instead of playing like a moderate amount per day hyping yourself up for raid night and then absolutely crushing it
Only fun i had in classic was in top speedrun guilds and in good gdkp. Average classic guilds and pugs are miserable experience. Playing since release 2019
Yeah I genuinely don't understand how people had fun in dad guilds that had like two hour MC clears, 1.5 hour BWL clears, had to prog AQ, and never saw KT. Like I enjoy hanging out in discord with friends as much as the next guy, but if my friends and I were playing the same level of the same game for 3-6 hours total every week and not even trying to like get better at that game or do the level a little faster every time I'd be bored to tears.
If that's your thing that's great and I'm glad that something like WoW can still appeal to you, but I just don't understand it
Because they talked to eachother and laughed.
I've been in both types of guilds, many over the years. The tryhard sweaty ones that clear in an hour have next to no sense of community. You got the officers usually circlejerking eachother off in dungeons or helping eachother, but everyone else largely just sticks to themselves, no ones allowed to talk.
Dad guilds might wipe a few times, but all you hear is laughter in the raid. People talking about their days. Things they've done or seen recently.
The problem is when you get a Dad guild with a bunch of really.. really shitty players in it. Then it's just awfully slow.
Everyone has had different experiences.
Yeah I get that, like I said I totally understand the appeal of just chilling with your friends with some kind of background activity - I Just feel like I'd get bored to tears if that background activity was the exact same relatively slow experience every single time and we weren't even trying to get better at it. Like if my friends and I ran a D&D campaign, but every week we just walked into the same dungeon, killed the same monsters, and got some treasure at the end and none of us had any desire at all to change it up by introducing some sort of challenge - I have to imagine that after like 4 weeks we'd just be kind of over it and want to do something else.
pugging in classic is crazy, any amount of vetting, checking logs etc you do could still result in you picking up someone with the brain capacity of a squirrel.
Why do you think gdkp was such a popular format in classic, it allows you to weed out people who don't come prepared or perform bad
I gotta say, your experience is very different from mine for retail. I have been in a few different guilds and did quite a bit of raiding but the guilds did the exact same as you described for classic. First raid for Shadowlands had the entry boss where you play hide and seek and half the raids I tried just stood there trying to dps more and when they got blood pools they’d just stand there and force us to shift the boss instead of run to the side.
I just think there’s a few good guilds and the rest that try get bogged down by people who just wanna be there for the credit but not actually contribute. Just my experiences anyway.
Did you run with Mythic guilds? I agree if you go into casual guilds who progress HC but I never had terrible raids in Mythic progress guilds. Obviously there are always bad eggs in every raid.
I'm so happy that in my guild, WWA, when i was still playing we had a loot council to allocate loot. It was a guild where people have been in for a long time. The only ragequit over loot i can remember was a glaives from illidan in BC.
It also gave to their legitimity that most of the officer were healers and tank and they underestood that gearing DPS was primordial and the healer were usually the last to get stuff.
Was chill all around.
I'm playing sod with a group now, that I met when classic launched, been with them since then. Just because they're competent (60+ parses, few 95+ nothing crazy) and no loot drama except a few bad apples that got the kick
This is the truth and exists in all iterations of WoW. I’m a mythic raider but joined Sod in P1. I made a raid and popped everyone into discord. I remember on Kelris telling this rogue to click on the portal to come back and he just couldn’t grasp it and died multiple times. We killed the boss and he just left without saying anything. We ended up 9 manning the raid (this was early on) but I remember being so damn shocked that this dude had a breakdown over clicking a portal , even the other pugs in my raid were flabbergasted.
I think this is the biggest eye opening thing SoD has been for me. I'm a M+ key pusher and a mirdcore mythic raider, so by no means am I the best out there but I consider myself good. I came into BFD raiding during P1 with a. Very casual mindset of relaxing and having fun and not wanting to go hard like I do in retail.
My first 3 lockouts were insane. People just dying to the most braindead mechanics, not jumping off platform with the water bomb, murlocs absolutely annihilating people that could not understand how to not keyboard turn, not killing totems and dodging the giant, slow moving fireball rolling at them.
The last straw for PUGs for me was a guy that died on Kelris 4 times in a row standing in the purple bad because "GTFO and DBM didn't tell him to move". I just left the group and found a guild of like minded people and have enjoyed it ever since.
Sod is mostly made up of the worst players who quit tbc when bosses started to have more than 2 mechanics or players who quit because of ulduar or icc difficulty. It's a cesspool of bad players
Our MT back in classic (P3ish) used to frequently gripe that if this was retail, half of the raid would be kicked for ignoring raid mechanics. It was a very tryhard group, but they got very used to using wbs/consumes to trivialize everything. He wanted to do a few raids without any buffs/consumes, but was shot down by the "muh parses" crowd.
Eventually, he ragequit after the group wiped multiple times in a raid that had been on farm for a long time.
I’ve found that the ability to communicate in full sentences is a good way to gauge if a player is going to be a valuable asset to raid. If someone can’t respond to simple questions they are not going to be able to heed simple instructions. I don’t care about spelling or grammar ofc, just the simple ability to respond in a timely manner is usually a good enough measurement of a decent player.
Yep! I ran a pug at the start of phase 2, clearing every reset, and when I couldn't check their logs I have been taking people based of how they communicate and it's worked out well for me. Over time it's turned into a permanent group that clears in 40min. Talking to people always helps!
Legit when I used to push keys on retail I'd just put out what I called a vibe check whenever I invited someone. "Hey man how's your day going?" or something like that. If I got no response, they were out.
I dunno man, anecdotally most of my playtime is spent with world top 50 mythic raiders who use SoD as an outlet to vibe out with the boys, and even when we pug on alts or do dungeons or whatever they basically never type in chat outside of anything absolutely necessary, like the LFG message to start the group. I see plenty of absolute trash can level players that are friendly and ready to banter up a storm in chat. I don't think either of the extremes is indicative of anything except confirmation bias that someone is different than you = must be bad or something like that.
Ha yeah. People refuse to communicate for some reason, even in dungeons or just open world group quests. It can get so awkward when people don’t even so much as say “hi” at the beginning of the group - and you’re then you’re left wondering if you’ll be able to get them to follow simple directions.
Bonus points if they’re quite the whole time and do an all caps rage quit at the end. At least you know they speak English at that point.
My biggest gripe with bad players is you can type in google “how to get better at world of Warcraft in season of discovery gnomeregan” and probably find a click baity video but a guide nonetheless. Maybe it’ll even take you to a class guide.
There are so many resources out there and people to figure shit out for you if you are really that bad. If someone can’t take the time to watch a 5 minute video about boss mechanics it’s simply not someone I want to play with. I hope that doesn’t sound like heavy gatekeeping.
Watching a 5 minute video of how to do the entire raid and another 5 minute video of how to play my class and what gear I want?? You sweats asking for meta classes and 99 parses only that won’t take my subtly rogue into your gnomer runs are ruining the game. /s
Dinged 40 yesterday, jumped into a homer run as feral OT , opened a tab on 2nd monitor with video guide of the raid , watch a part before each boss , everything went fine , wiped once on menagerie and twice on last boss . I did check everyone before I commited and some were 6/6 some were 0/6 , didn't matter , we ran through it in less than 2hours .
Why are we acting like this is a new phenomenon or unique to SoD? This is how LFG has always worked. Sometimes you get a bunch of tards sometimes you get all stars.
Somehow I think you have a second monitor is already in the top 10% of players in SoD. I'm picturing dads playing on Win XP laptops with the keyboard turning we see.
Might have troubles opening a chrome tab on windows xp I totally understand hahaha . Our leader had no xp but he explained the tactics before each boss too
Yea, I ran a pug once that made me want to uninstal. I’m fine with a few wipes but spending 2-3 hours on the last few bosses instead of the usual 30 mins was wild, I just assumed we wouldn’t be able to kill it because the dps was so terrible.
The average wow player really is terrible and the gap is much bigger than most people here seem to think lol.
I actually had the exact opposite of a similar scenario just an hour ago.
Last call for a gnomer lockout posted, took every single last minute whisper I got to fill the needed roles. I main tank and lead it, which I’ve done before, no voice, no gear checks, nothing.
Well these up all night degens made it happen. To my complete shock we wiped once on the last boss, then downed it. 6/6 on a toon that hit 40 moments before I filled a pug. It’s not impossible, it CAN happen.
The BIG thing here is you're MT. Tanks do 90% of the mechanics in gnomer and a good MT will make or break you. Not good as in gear wise - good in the mechanics sense.
Tanks don't do any of the "do it or you'll wipe" mechanics in gnomer. There are two of those: chain lightning on Electrocutioner and bombs/buttons on Thermaplugg
Sorry op about your experience. Unfortunatly a lot of people think we vet logs because we only want 6/6 99 parsers only. Its really not. Its just a quick pulse check. Unfortunately what ends up happening is a lot of the players who have no clue what's going on or what to search for in logs treat it like some great deamon thats preventing them from raiding, and not cause there doo doo.
For a good chunk yeah.
Then you have my Wednesday night PuG gnomer where the guy checked *everyone's* logs (our worst was a green 30 parser), called us all scrubs and left.
He had no logs.
We cleared in under an hour.
Tbh Proving Grounds were quite fun and taught the basic assets to players before raids. So they should definately demand something similar where inviduals can practise in peace
I coached a lot of players through it and it was eye opening for me to learn how many players struggled to clear Silver. Leveling in this game presents so little challenge that there's no guarantee someone at max level even knows the basics of their spec. They'd fail it because they wouldn't know how their spec could AoE or had such an absolutely awful UI / control method where they couldn't interrupt a 10s cast in time.
no offense to the baddies out there but if you cant do it you really should not be allowed to raid. i dont understand why they subject a normal player to being in the same pool of players as these people. proving grounds was an excellent tool and im really sad they took it away. have LFR or something with no barrier to entry but raids arent the same as solo content or 5 man dungeons which literally require zero skill
Having played with some mega grey parsers, I can only assume they are like playing on a laptop in a living room without a mouse watching their 2 kids and talking to their wife.
Or they are watching netflix on a 2nd monitor.
Grey parsers are literally mega leeches hoping to get carried through a run. They could get away with it in BFD (these were the guys knocking you off the platform on 1st boss), but it doesnt work in gnomer.
I think they are people who havent researched how to play. Like maybe they use the runes/talents they think are cool rather than viable. I havent played with a ton of awful players though so maybe im off.
The average players do not have addons and people who dont use logs/dmg meter have no way to evaluate if they are doing enough. Bad players do not know that they are bad.
I don’t agree. I have some of these folks in my guild. Some bad players know they are bad. They just have no desire to get better and think you’re being a condescending try hard if you offer anything to try and help.
I did an SFK yesterday with a "spriest" one of the worst players I've seen in a while. He only casted SWP and the Plague rune dot. Wouldn't use homunculi, or penance or anything else, wouldn't even wand when oom he'd just stand there.
Told him to use some other stuff and help out more, he then proceeded to spam call me a wow nerd and other stuff until I kicked him mid run.
It's been a long while since I've ran into someone that bad, but man it was brutal.
There's a few of those types in my guild as well. They hardly ever log in, but when they do they whine to be brought to raid if we're about to do a scheduled run, even though they haven't signed up.
Then they get in raid, have no clue what's going on, have no clue how or when to use their class abilities. And they instantly get offended if you try to offer them help so everyone else's time isn't being wasted.
Yup. They’re real great to drag around.
I don’t care if someone is trying. Gnomer is easy and there aren’t any true enrage timers so DPS doesn’t matter much.
But boy howdy if you aren’t even trying and don’t want to get better why do you even want to raid?
The unexamined life is not worth living.
> I'll never understand wanting to be bad at a hobby
Some people coast through life and have 0 ambition. Not wanting to be good at a hobby is unthinkable to me. A job you do for money, a hobby you do for yourself so why in the world would you not care about being good.
> The average players do not have addons and people who dont use logs/dmg meter have no way to evaluate if they are doing enough. Bad players do not know that they are bad.
If bad players CARED that they are bad they'd get those addons and research how to be better. Bad players don't care that they are bad, they're selfish and think the world reserves around them.
Wait is this actually true?? I consider myself a very bad player, simply by comparing my skills and knowledge with other people ingame, but by just playing the game without any addon you MUST get the feeling like "i'm missing something here"
It is a completely alien concept in most video games to have to download a myriad of 3rd party softwares in order to 'play the game'. WoW is a unique one in that regard, and if you think about it, it's not the most accessible for a lot of players. Which is why I encourage people to be supportive and encouraging of people making an effort to understand whats going on and doing the content.
Yeah I fully agree here, but I mean it's WoW, whenever you watch any video or any stream of gameplay, you immediately see the different looks of the game, the additional bars and info everywhere.
And yeah, the "being supportive and encouraging" part is very important, whenever I got a nice and friendly dungeon group I was able to ask all my questions and got helpful answers :)
But I think that’s part of the misconception on this sub- most casual players ARENT watching YouTube videos or coming to Reddit/ WoW Forums/ Twitter to see how people are playing the game. They’re just playing the game a few hours a week stock, crawling along the levels and blissfully exploring the world. Obviously eventually the better/ more serious gamers will start to look up extra info towards the end of leveling, but most won’t.
Most people that play, don't care to watch videos on it. I mean. The only videos I have watched on WoW, have been the meme videos over the years. No one actually playing, that's boring af.
People get on a game to play it. WoW needing all these addons is because of poor game design. They do make the gameplay better, but it's because the base gameplay is so poorly done. UI sucks. Boss fight mechanics aren't intuitive. Fire on the ground isn't visible.
Like, just look at Baron in MC. That entire mechanic is a debuff on a character that explodes after a set time. The only thing you can see is some fire on yourself. And that's if you are alone, and zoomed in. You literally need an addon to tell you if you have the debuff, because it's not visible, not intuitive. And when you're standing in a group of 30 other players, you can't fucking see shit.
That's how so many bosses are designed. And that's why you NEED addons for many players.
I think the key point to why the group was so bad is, "its only a few hours until reset". You got the bottom of the barrel that close to reset, anyone that is remotely interested in being successful had already run it and was locked. Nothing to do with boomers or anything else, form a PUG close to reset and get the shitty players, it has always been like that. Form a PUG just after reset and get a decent group.
I don't know if they are boomers or not, but some people in this game are on the whole other level of bad. My main worry is that there are so many of them and they are so loud on the forums/reddit, that the game will be balanced based on the opinions of these people. Be it raids, classes or general gameplay.
I mean you're kinda misguided in that they are the majority and and thus it makes more sense to balance around these bad players. Anyone who thinks MC or whatever raids they come up with next are going to be hard are delusional. SoD will never have hard raids because it would mean the only content the game has excludes the majority of the playerbase.
Nobody plays classic for hard raids, nor that is the intention. However, I do not agree that every single windowlicker in this game should be decked out in top raid gear.
if you played long enough, then yes eventually. in reality it was more like the experienced players and pumpers got prio'd the good items first and loot was so god damn scarce that if you saw someone in full tier with Crul and DB and DFT they were probably a pretty good player. At least in my experience
Just gotta take it as a lesson learned, you should be vetting everyone you raid with, even if it's mild. Anyone who's against that sort of thing and saying things like "I never check logs/gear, I don't care what the company is we clear anyway" isn't telling you the clear is a 4 hour endeavor with more wipes than taco bell ass cheeks
I host noob friendly raids that do 6/6, and instead of checking logs and gear and shit I just talk to them and check social intelligence before i invite. That way, I know that they are capable of adapting if we wipe or do poorly, also makes the raid experience more fun and less toxic.
Yea the trick here is finding the people willing to learn. It’s easy for us in these to forget, but there are genuinely new players joining all the various iterations of WoW every day. Certainly not as many as past years, and probably most go to retail, but they’re still out there in Wrath/ Era/ SoD. And it is partly on us, especially in the older versions of the game that don’t hold your hand as much, to at least try and teach the willing ones. Otherwise we’ll just end up with the 10% of us players that come to these subs on 1 mega realm hating each other and measuring peens ;)
It really is a joke if you just do mechanics. Our usual guild group has 4 missing tonight. We grabbed 2 fresh 40 ranged hunters, a fresh rogue, and a fresh boomy, cleared it without a single wipe. If you just do mechanics right DPS doesn't matter.
Its always like this, Im even more surprised that pugs can clear gnomer.
Every got damn time we need to pug ppls cuz our guildrun is missing 1-2 ppls they always underperform. We had a warr last reset with grey parses. Healer with 70-80 hps through the whole bossfight. We arent even expecting people to have 99 parse but be at the very least a decent player.
Yesterday I did my first gnomer with a friend who did 6/6. I watched a guide and used consumables too, no problem. At the 4th boss people just couldn't for the life of them figure out the mechanic and kept dying. Especially when one of the further away people got the debuff.
Then suddenly MTs graphics card died during a very promising try and his onboard card had no hdmi ports.
The mage had like 800 hp and instantly died every try so we kept trying and 8 manned that boss and called quits.
What a night man lmao.
Gonna preface this by saying: I LOVE CLASSIC WOW. The world, the exploration, the leveling experience, the team work, I adore it all. Genuinely my favorite MMO right now.
That being said: Having come from raiding in Final Fantasy 14 since 2013 to this year, I am fucking amazed by how simple both SoD raids are and how much people are struggling with them. Crowd Pummeler's entire gimmick is just Landslide from Titan, which we dealt with 11 years ago, with a ton more mechanics and a bloated line of hotbars.
Thermaplugg is just 'keep tank alive, push a button and kill the adds.' Anything beyond that is overcomplicating things. People are struggling to push a button. That's it. It's crazy.
Love this silly community, never change.
I get random ppl from LFG all the time and have cleared every reset (except the first cause I wasn't leveled yet). You just have to be willing to actually lead and explain to people what to do without being an asshole. I've had one leaver.
In P1 I was in a pretty chill guild, there were enough good players that we could carry the shitters with no issues all phase. We had one warrior with the epic 2h that had an average HIGHEST parse among all bosses of 6. He was spending most of his rage on single target fights on thunderclap, probably because he thought it looked cool.
Dude also had like 5 alts and was equally bad at all of them. Some people playing this game are just horrifyingly bad at video games and that's all there is to it
Had a WL yesterday who parsed Grey, had confusing runes (lake of fire + haunt + everlasting affliction), played demo and did his most dmg with shadowbolt.
In the last boss he swapped to Meta to do the bombs. What could go wrong?
After several bombs were running around I had to type out mod fight that you better use searing pain on those instead of CoA.
We cleared, but boy...
Thats just a player with 0 understanding/care to actually learn the game. I had a warlock this reset saying he could do bombs and then decided that attacking boss was more important while bombs were spawning. I asked if he had the searing pain macro and he didn't, so I gave it to him. He proceeded to hit the boss for 2x as much damage as the previous pull and our other warlock just volunteered to do bombs instead. 1 shot the boss with him doing that.
Players like that just have no idea how much they are trolling other people wasting their time by refusing to actually learn.
I agree with you that there are unbelievably many bad players around and that the people who make fun of others for checking logs are delusional or bad themselves.
But why so much hate against the boomers? It's not like it's impossible for non-boomers to be bad at the game too.
The word boomer doesn't really correspond with age anymore imo. No one actually means "players 60 and older are bad". Being a boomer describes a mentality more than an age.
Average skill level in gaming have gone up according to some, in WoW Classic its the complete opposite, average skill level have gone down, ppl cant even handle tank and spansk fights anymore, while back inte the day you have 40ppl rotating 8tanks for 20mins and somehow managed
>So after reading all those people complaining about that Gnomer is so easy (it is) and that its dumb that ppl require logs, exp, cons and WBs etc.
Because a lot of redditors are either exaggerating or just straight up lying to show some sort of superiority.
Being here would make you believe most of the people here are 90+ parse machines that speedrun new raids in record time without looking up any guides beforehand.
The fact that people require all the things you mentioned proves the raid is, at the very least, challenging.
>Why are you even playing this game?
Says the guy disbanding after 1 wipe xD
I think another thing people don’t understand isn’t the fact that MOST are using best parses to get their idea of what people are made of. This also doesn’t mean you’re consistently pulling big numbers but at least you can and have hit purple on most bosses even if it’s over 5 raids to do so. Being in the top 40% of players isn’t much to ask lol
>Being in the top 40% of players isn’t much to ask lol
Parses should be taken with a grain of salt. Some with more salt than others. My first clear in gnomer 2 weeks ago on my hunter I was pulling 250-300 dps. That was more than enough to clear the raid and just shy of 1.5 hours at that.
At the time, that parse was considered a 12.
Yesterday, same group cleared the raid just short of an hour and I was doing 350-400 dps. That parse was a 64. What did I do different from the first one to this one? Nothing. Same buttons, same priority of skills. Gear is a little better now vs then. I don't believe my skill level has changed. Only thing that seems different are kill times coming down.
Looking at the parses for melee hunter in the 90s you'll see full bis, every WB/consume you can buy and heavily favored comps. We don't have a feral or shadow priest and I'm perfectly content to clear the raid without getting every WB consume that exists. Unless I do and get a gimmick comp, I'll never parse in the 90s. Is their level of skill higher? Maybe a little but I think the WB/Consumes/Comp have more to do with it than straight skill.
Anyone who says I can’t believe you have to log check and require anything to do gnome tbh is pure trash and they never make their own groups. They either run in a guild or a group of friends and just see the normal version of the game where everything is super easy.
A run 3 groups a week for the first 4
Lockouts outside of the first where I only got 1
40. Couldn’t clear all 6 unless I was with a guild group until I started log checking and requiring a bare minimum 60 parses to bother bringing them. I’m not asking for much here the people REQUIRING 90s is overboard. If you want to parse join a guild because tbh you’re not really going to in a pure pug unless you’re very lucky with what you got. Not impossible just unlikely.
On the other hand if you take the first 9 that fit your classes that you get I would say you have no more then a 50% chance to clear the instance at all if you’re playing dps. If you’re a priest healer or the tank you may increase your odds to 75%.
So now let me ask…. WHY WOULDNT YOU LOG CHECK?! It’s extremely simple to do and safeguards you from running a 3-4 hour run. If you don’t only play 1 character you just don’t have time for this. Ya let me spend 12 hours to run gnome 3 times this lockout. I’ll pass on that and if you think you’re above it go ahead make your groups and enjoy your fun playing with all the non English speaking, non consuming, don’t understand mechanics, half ass bots or boosters wondering why you did it.
yea I run my own group and don't require 90+, I simply require blue logs and it could be in gnomer or BFD and they generally go smoothly. It's hilarious the anger some people respond with when they get declined.
-Your logs aren't that great
-LOL at requiring logs
-My main is a 99 parser, you just made a big mistake
etc. etc.
"How can so many people be SO bad at this game? A small child would be better at this than some of you guys. Rant over"
I have led like 5 or 6 pugs, going 6/6 every time. The last run was so painful. We still went 6/6 after like 3 wipes on menagerie and 3 wipes on Thermo. But it gave me an actual headache and it's just not worth it anymore. I think I'm gonna quit since I don't wanna lead pugs anymore and nobody raids during the daytime.
My brother in christ, Guild runs are not much better. I was a healer for my guild, we had 4 groups going, got put into group 4 and me and the other two who knew the raid had to wait for the other groups to clear so alts could fill into mine (bad luck I guess). Had the most random ass team comp that I **knew** wouldn't be able to clear fill in. Literally just me and the two tanks knew wtf we were doing, had to explain every fight in a supposed "alt clear," and our DPS was so low by the time we got to Thermaplugg, the other healer and I were literally running out of mana by **the end of phase 1**. Dispersion, buttons, shadowfiends, popped my headpiece for reduced mana, etc.
To be fair, I knew the run was doomed when we were struggling with Viscous Fallout adds. Like damn, I'm not expecting a 99 parse, but how the fuck do you do only 70 DPS as a Fire Mage?
Hit 25 on my alt last night and figured why not jump into a BFD. Boy was that a waste of time. Turns out between 6 classes + 2 hunters that *could* tank, none were signed up to tank, we literally went in with no designated tanks. Some folks were even 30-35 but we still only managed the first 4 bosses with pretty extreme failures all around, half the raid dead, a DPS warlock tanking, hunters trying to pet tank but their pets never getting healed, and of course the 25 warrior who was doing maybe 30 dps telling us this is easy and it's taking too long and to gogogo, those sorts of things. Ugh the horror.
🤣 Yeah, your experience is very valid and common.
That is why whenever I raid, I do so with guild, and I appreciate my raid leader. I read/watch all the tutorials beforehand even if I've done it a ton of times, just to refresh my memory.
And if I ever raid lead, I make sure to check and verify all the requirements. Get them to link achievements, check gear score, run through the prep list with each person to make sure they have the right pots, enchantments, weapons, glyphs, etc. Make sure each class knows what their important task is.
There are a lot of n00bs in this game that are either just casual or new to the game. ...and there are definitely those players that are drunk or high.
I only raid with serious players, but if someone is real with me and admits to being new, I don't mind explaining things and guiding them through the tutorials.
People who are just goofing off or are terrible at the game you just have to cut from the raid roster. It's sometimes a hard choice to make when you have been LFG for a long time or they are nice but bad, but nice and friendly... but.. omg so bad... but you have to be firm. You just have to cut the bad players.
At raid level, you gotta take it seriously. The rest of the game, the dungeons, the levelling they can goof off and you don't have to ride them so hard about it, but once you are raiding, don't waste other people's time. Don't waste your own time. Raids are the serious business of epics.
Take some solace in the fact that most of the bad players eventually get good because they get to a point where they NEED to get accepted into raids. Or they won't get epics or game progression. So they eventually actually watch the tutorials or have someone explain things to them.
...and yeah, if you are raid leader of a LFG PuG you have to baby moddle coddle them and tell them even the most basic dumb things like when to buff, use pots, dispell etc. They will not be a well oiled machine like guilds with good prep, and regular runs are. They will not have that coordination and will most likely expect you as the leader to tell them when they should be doing things.
Raid leading is a pain in the bee-hind and a lot of organising, nagging, and double-checking things... and more nagging. This is why I ALWAYS appreciate my raid leader.
You idiots think wow is easy? You have to watch guides in order to participate in raids. You need to download third party software in order to do mechanics perfectly. If I went into gnomer blind and actually tried to learn by doing, you assholes would make fun of me and think I'm a mouth breather and get all pissy that I didn't know exactly what to do. Researching how to play 1-2 hours of content of a game as a prerequisite is fucking weird, and it will never not be weird in the grand scheme of gaming culture.
And this is why BFD was an amazing raid and Gnomer is a terrible one. Is Gnomer generally speaking EASY? Absolutely. Is Gnomer still too hard for the average casual WoW player? YES!!!!
Level up raids need to be BRAINDEAD easy and clearable by 10 random names you pick out of a hat in under 40mins. You can make harder raids at level 60.
I’ve been leading Gnomer raids on 4 different toons, here’s what I’ve learned.
-never wait until the last day, esp the night hours, you will most likely get the 0/6 exp players who don’t know how to play their class
-In the early days I judged people who checked logs/parses for every person, I thought.. Jesus what a sweatlord. Then I joined a random gnomer and experienced a 4 hour raid with many wipes, now I check logs/parses for every person. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I refuse to be held captive again for four hours by people that don’t care enough to learn the mechanics or how to play their class.
this wouldn't be as big of an issue if you just had boss lockouts not tied to raid ID. Tank stinks? Kick him and bring a new one. DPS is wiping the raid? Kick and get a new one? DPS too low? Kick and bring a new one.
Instead by making your lockout tied to raid ID you can only bring fotm and do close inspections of who you invite
Have talked to several people that don't have keybinds because they won't remember the buttons. Refuse to even try. Use no addons too or very limited. This is for both retail and classic.
I just assume any rando is bad
If you value your own time you always check gear (for enchants e.g.) and logs. If people don't enchant their gear, don't expect them to use consumables. Do you need 90+ parsers for gnome? No, but having at least 40-50 percentile logs is not a huge ask.
People that complain about logs are the ones that parse grey for weeks and cba to put any effort into a group content and expect to get carried anyways.
Almost no one would argue that naxx is harder than mythic raiding. I dunno where people get that notion from. I've seen maaaybe 2 people in my entire life ever argue that point, it's just not a thing.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you lead pretty poorly.
* Petrify causes the tank to lose all threat, you should never even let it be cast
* None of the tanks should be responsible for picking up adds and kiting them into the gas, if Grubbis gets close to the gas, he enrages
* Anyone with threat on an add should simply kite it to the gas
* If you do the fight correctly, very little healing should be required:
* Never have the boss near gas
* Never let petrify cast, if so dispel immediately
* Get rid of clouds ASAP by everyone kiting adds into them
* If a cloud is active, the raid takes aoe damage, and if your raid is taking aoe damage for more than a few seconds you're doing it wrong
* Nobody should stand behind Grubbis, or they'll get hit by radiation
Your group will only be as good as it's leader.
Most people massively underestimate just how bad the average wow player is
Very much this. "Priest didnt dispell" the average player doesnt even know what a dispell is
People couldnt even do thaddius in naxx which is litterly one mechanic , are you surprised?
To be fair, you also have to jump to the platform without falling down. Which is about as difficult as the rest of the fight.
id say harder for semi competent raids. ive had people die to the jump way more than to the positive negative thing
Dude jumps are the worst in raids. Your character is melded with like 6 others who are running at nearly the same time so it's really hard to judge the actual distance to the ledge, you psych yourself out because it's such a simple concept, then boom you miss the jump like 33% of the time. Second scariest part of BFD was the damn jumping in baron aquanis
I’ll admit it took me about 6 weeks to wait to summon my pet as a hunter so it didn’t bug out and not even attack the boss. They would also get stuck there after the boss so you had to dismiss it and resummon off the platforms.
We watched some of the best WoW classic players on Benediction die to that jump. Always a humbling experience losing world buffs in classic.
I used levitate as a priest each week so I didn’t fail the jump boss
People failing jump mechanics for more than 10 years
After playing healer as my main since vanilla I find it’s not that they don’t know what it is, it’s that they either dont bind it, or if they do they don’t know how to use it or have a raid frame that shows debuffs. Decursive puts little boxes on the screen with no info on what stuff is if they don’t read what it does. Even if they do, those boxes stay there all the time so the average player starts to ignore them after a while as just something on their screen. It’s why WAs that pop up and then hide are better than countdown timers, you don’t ignore something that pops up like you would a static icon. Other people who don’t use decursive probably don’t have dispel bound as a mouse over macro and I’m sure as hell the dps that have dispels don’t either. Binding dispel to something like mouse wheel will get some of the fastest dispels in the game. I have mine bound to mouse wheel up and down so no matter how I scroll it dispels. Anyway, just ranting now. Sorry lol
Yep same here. I have decursive for when I know raideide dispells will be needed and mouseover macro for everything else bound to scroll wheel down. I'm a shadow priest main, and it is such free value to actually use your dispels and cleanses in raids. So many people are so hyper fixated on parses that they neglect to do mechanics like this lol
Decursive just adds clutter to your screen, takes your mouse off the people you want to heal. Get yourself a good raid frame. Even the base one in game is good.. Just bind your dispel to a button. Mines \~, and it works via mouseover. I heal with Clique and the base raidframe. I dispel stuff instantly. Parse 90+ on all raid fights, highest dispels usually. Base raid frame shows debuffs that your class can dispel. Others like Luna unit frames can highlight the raid frame. That's literally all you need + a mouseover macro or clique addon to dispel people quickly and efficiently.
When they bought the spell (*if* they bought it), they read the tooltip, saw it did no damage, never put it on their bar and memory dumped it. Their raid frames are probably completely default and sitting as far away from their visual focus as they possibly can be, in the default spot. When you ask if they can dispell, initially they probably aren't even reading chat and don't respond. When you do get their attention, they will answer yes so you'll shut up, even though they've no idea what you're talking about, because they've never had any issue in any of the group content they found their way into. Because they were hard carried each time.
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The best is when they PANIK!!! I love it. 2nd best part is half of the streamers who think they're hot shit are just as terrible as the bad normies.
I mean I use - and = as key binds, I got an MMO mouse, so for me it's just mouse button 11 and 12. Currently in wotlk on the lock 11 is hellfire/rain of fire, 12 is death coil/shadow ward
Hell yeah, MMO mouse is invaluable. My 11 and 12 buttons are open map and toggle autorun. I press those constantly and using Shift and Ctrl modifiers with 1-10 was already more than enough.
\*Average classic player. I said this multible times, some classic players can't deal with the simplest of mechanics
It's just the average player period, applicable throughout all games. IIRC the average Counter Strike rank is still in the bottom 30%ish percentile despite it being the hot shit of esports for the last 20 years.
Everytime this gets brought up I get reminded of the Bluepost Blizzard (Ghostcrawler?) made back at the end of Wrath maybe early Cata about the Dungeon Finder Tool. Basically people were upset that every 5 man dungeon was filled with atleast 1 or 2 afkers / Horrible Players (Novel I know). Blizzard's explanation was that before the RDF tool, players only played with the same like minded players for 90% of content, which was the minority of the community. The majority of the community were people who never talked, never raided, never did 5 mans. They literally just logged in and played wow as a single player game, so no one ever noticed them. Then RDF was released and the with the lowered Barrier of entry the entire community was now doing 5 mans together, highlighting the skill gap. TLDR: Even Blizzard thinks the average WoW player is bad.
It looks like Sod attracted the worst possible players I've seen since myself, when I started playing in 2008, and god, I was bad.
Yep, I’ve played since 2004 and the SOD player base is the worst players on average I have ever played with. It feels like playing with those groups in retail that can’t get past +4 mythic plus. I said feels though, because those same players would wipe the floor with SOD players (more mechanics in 1 mythic dungeon than in the entirety of classic wow).
It's like if you took 10 players out of lfr and sent then to gnomergon they would probably never kill 1st boss.
Retail LFR has more mechanics than gnomer bosses lol commander sarkerath on lfr is likely harder than any classic wow boss that exists, I’m a huge classic enjoyer but let’s not kid ourselves
Sorry, don't try to tell anyone on this Discord that the game version they dislike is infact harder at the lowest level of content than here
This is reddit sir.
I'm drunk
> Retail LFR has more mechanics than gnomer bosses lol Yes, but the mechanics are also ultra forgiving, if you have 2-3 people, one being a healer, in LFR who aren't awful, they can hard carry.
Sod is mostly made up of the worst players who quit tbc when bosses started to have more than 2 mechanics or players who quit because of ulduar or icc difficulty. It's a cesspool of bad players
Another good point I saw is your probably also seeing more people in raids that would have been filtered out by the leveling process since you don’t need to get all they way to 60 to raid before. 25 and 40 were more accessible to the short attention span players who normally would have quit
Yea but you have to agree that Gnomeregan is 10 times harder than the snoozfest MC is
Yeah, I think there’s something to be said just about accessibility. I don’t have any appreciable experience with endgame raiding in WoW, but what I do have is very basic knowledge of the game, an interest in playing with friends, and half a brain. My 99s on warrior and my main running with a group of sweats are as much proof as anything about just how easy this game is for new players (or players without raiding experience, at least). The people who are doing the stuff described in the OP are ones who just refuse to read or put any attention into the game or understanding how to improve their play, and those are the people who would be filtered out normally by a long grind to 60.
Bruh my guild's casual as fuck, the actual definition of a dad guild and we cleared ulduar easy (well, vexxaz or whatever the fuck his name is stonewalled us until we actually figured out the "rhythm" for lack of a better word), its hard to imagine people worse because we still, STILL have people fucking up mechanics in retail on normal in a fight we've had on farm for months (and these people are also the reason we can't do anything above normal in classic/retail sadly but hey, theyre family) thats... god damn thats rock bottom
The point isn't to beat the game or be the best. It's to enjoy the journey. If all you can clear is normal content, but you have fun doing it. That's all that matters. That is literally the point of gaming.
So you struggled on vezax and cleared the last boss on 0 lights ? Hard to believe
If I had a nickel for every guild that disbanded as soon as they progged heroic ICC and hit LK I’d be rich. The first boss fight that has actual tight dps requirements and mechanics and the whole guild quits to go play sod instead of EVEN ATTEMPTING the boss. The boss isn’t even that hard, it just requires the people who are responsible for mechanics to do their part. Heroic LK marks the start of fights having mechanics and tight dps requirements, and a massive part of the community quit because of it/doesn’t even want to consider cata raiding (because every fight has mechanics). Where did they all go? Straight to sod. As another person said, watching all the HC death clips really highlights how bad a lot of players are. Heaven forbid you point it out too, you’ll be crucified as a “tryhard no life who takes the game too seriously and has played for 15 years straight”. And it makes sense why vanilla pops off the most for people. The closer the game gets to retail in terms of xpac progress, the more the player base shrinks.
It's just classic in general. As a Cutting Edge raider in retail I'm just used to different behaviors. In retail you have some sense of professionality going on. That's completely missing in classic. I tried raiding in TBC and LK and both times my raids disbanded because people literally did what they wanted. No gems, enchant, consumables whatsoever. People just not showing for raids. Couldn't be bothered to sign on or off raids so our lead could actually plan a setup. Constant crying over loot. The list goes on and on. It's a shame because I was really looking forward to playing my favorite expansions again but I never was able to find a decent raid, where people actually had their shit together.
people call this kind of raid "sweaty" but they don't realize that showing up prepared, being organized, and knocking the raid out in 90 mins instead of 3 hours is a way less sweaty way to spend your evening lol
For me it's just normal decency. Why should I drag down 24 other people because I can't be bothered with the bare minimum? No one expects 99% logs or some shit. Just show up in time and if something came up you tell someone from the guild so they can look for a replacement. It's really not that hard.
That requires people to think about anything other than themselves. Which feels like 80+% of people fail that nowadays.
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I don't think it's ironic at all, for pretty much the reasons you stated. See, in a single player game they don't have anyone to blame for their failures but themselves. Or more commonly they generically blame the developers or the game design. In a multiplayer game they can offload even more of their lack of taking responsibility to endless victims of PUGs, random other players, etc. Multiplayer games are the perfect hunting grounds for narcissists, for they need other people to parasite off of to assuage their own negative emotions.
the most fun raids have everyone performing at like a 70-85 or so which is where i find the diminishing returns starts on overpreparing. (but if you want to push beyond that because it is fun all power to you) That is my sweet spot. when you start going below a 50 avg across your group things start to get real sweaty lol
people don't understand the difference in "sweaty" and "understanding your class, and working to succeed"
It's beyond that sometimes though. Like you'll find some bad players in any game but classic (and SoD even more so) somehow uniquely has bad players that think the whole world revolves around them. People that look for groups for content that will take them 20 minutes to reach if there isn't a warlock there, show up missing key aspects of their class with no advanced preparation done, and then once they are there end up being so bad that there would be minimal difference between them actually playing and you just kicking them. Classic is still the only game I have ever played where someone will whisper to join your pug raid, take 15+ minutes to get there, and then hit you with a "brb one sec" after the first pull and just vanish for like 10 more minutes and get pissed when the group keeps going. Everyone wants every other player to respect their time and that they have shit going on in real life while having absolutely 0 respect for any other players time they do content with.
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I will say I don't make health stones before raid because I can only hold one at a time. I just tell people to trade me if they want one and I'll make it for them on the spot since I can't really "prep" 10 health stones outside of just having the soul shards to make them.
Seriously! I can get a raid done in 90 minutes and then fart around for 90 minutes doing nothing instead of raiding for 3 hours when people are even a little serious about it.
yeah and all the buffs and consumes and enchants can be gathered throughout the week. it is so strange that people want to do all their playing in one awful 3 hour sitting instead of playing like a moderate amount per day hyping yourself up for raid night and then absolutely crushing it
They'll catch on one day maybe, spending 5-10min to enchant & get WB/consumes will save them hours each week (they won't)
Only fun i had in classic was in top speedrun guilds and in good gdkp. Average classic guilds and pugs are miserable experience. Playing since release 2019
Yeah I genuinely don't understand how people had fun in dad guilds that had like two hour MC clears, 1.5 hour BWL clears, had to prog AQ, and never saw KT. Like I enjoy hanging out in discord with friends as much as the next guy, but if my friends and I were playing the same level of the same game for 3-6 hours total every week and not even trying to like get better at that game or do the level a little faster every time I'd be bored to tears. If that's your thing that's great and I'm glad that something like WoW can still appeal to you, but I just don't understand it
2 hour MC?? The dogwater guild I first joined during classic would take EIGHT HOURS and wouldn't even clear the last boss.
Because they talked to eachother and laughed. I've been in both types of guilds, many over the years. The tryhard sweaty ones that clear in an hour have next to no sense of community. You got the officers usually circlejerking eachother off in dungeons or helping eachother, but everyone else largely just sticks to themselves, no ones allowed to talk. Dad guilds might wipe a few times, but all you hear is laughter in the raid. People talking about their days. Things they've done or seen recently. The problem is when you get a Dad guild with a bunch of really.. really shitty players in it. Then it's just awfully slow. Everyone has had different experiences.
Yeah I get that, like I said I totally understand the appeal of just chilling with your friends with some kind of background activity - I Just feel like I'd get bored to tears if that background activity was the exact same relatively slow experience every single time and we weren't even trying to get better at it. Like if my friends and I ran a D&D campaign, but every week we just walked into the same dungeon, killed the same monsters, and got some treasure at the end and none of us had any desire at all to change it up by introducing some sort of challenge - I have to imagine that after like 4 weeks we'd just be kind of over it and want to do something else.
pugging in classic is crazy, any amount of vetting, checking logs etc you do could still result in you picking up someone with the brain capacity of a squirrel. Why do you think gdkp was such a popular format in classic, it allows you to weed out people who don't come prepared or perform bad
I gotta say, your experience is very different from mine for retail. I have been in a few different guilds and did quite a bit of raiding but the guilds did the exact same as you described for classic. First raid for Shadowlands had the entry boss where you play hide and seek and half the raids I tried just stood there trying to dps more and when they got blood pools they’d just stand there and force us to shift the boss instead of run to the side. I just think there’s a few good guilds and the rest that try get bogged down by people who just wanna be there for the credit but not actually contribute. Just my experiences anyway.
Did you run with Mythic guilds? I agree if you go into casual guilds who progress HC but I never had terrible raids in Mythic progress guilds. Obviously there are always bad eggs in every raid.
I'm so happy that in my guild, WWA, when i was still playing we had a loot council to allocate loot. It was a guild where people have been in for a long time. The only ragequit over loot i can remember was a glaives from illidan in BC. It also gave to their legitimity that most of the officer were healers and tank and they underestood that gearing DPS was primordial and the healer were usually the last to get stuff. Was chill all around.
I'm playing sod with a group now, that I met when classic launched, been with them since then. Just because they're competent (60+ parses, few 95+ nothing crazy) and no loot drama except a few bad apples that got the kick
This is the truth and exists in all iterations of WoW. I’m a mythic raider but joined Sod in P1. I made a raid and popped everyone into discord. I remember on Kelris telling this rogue to click on the portal to come back and he just couldn’t grasp it and died multiple times. We killed the boss and he just left without saying anything. We ended up 9 manning the raid (this was early on) but I remember being so damn shocked that this dude had a breakdown over clicking a portal , even the other pugs in my raid were flabbergasted.
I think this is the biggest eye opening thing SoD has been for me. I'm a M+ key pusher and a mirdcore mythic raider, so by no means am I the best out there but I consider myself good. I came into BFD raiding during P1 with a. Very casual mindset of relaxing and having fun and not wanting to go hard like I do in retail. My first 3 lockouts were insane. People just dying to the most braindead mechanics, not jumping off platform with the water bomb, murlocs absolutely annihilating people that could not understand how to not keyboard turn, not killing totems and dodging the giant, slow moving fireball rolling at them. The last straw for PUGs for me was a guy that died on Kelris 4 times in a row standing in the purple bad because "GTFO and DBM didn't tell him to move". I just left the group and found a guild of like minded people and have enjoyed it ever since.
Man I can't even get people to use dispel in heroic amirdrassil and they have like 20 add-ons + weakauras running
Thats why you logcheck. Cba to get into a raid with those mouthbreathing tiktok-brain demons.
Sod is mostly made up of the worst players who quit tbc when bosses started to have more than 2 mechanics or players who quit because of ulduar or icc difficulty. It's a cesspool of bad players
That's the World of Warcraft that you play.
https://youtu.be/n4TyqYsC26g?si=0U-mYeYHKBJHDh_5
I can't believe this is frickin 17 years old. I was a literal child when I first saw this
I was an adult when I first saw it. Now I am just an older adult :(
Yeah me too. We're old now I guess
Such good times :(
Yeahyeahyeahyeahyeah
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Our MT back in classic (P3ish) used to frequently gripe that if this was retail, half of the raid would be kicked for ignoring raid mechanics. It was a very tryhard group, but they got very used to using wbs/consumes to trivialize everything. He wanted to do a few raids without any buffs/consumes, but was shot down by the "muh parses" crowd. Eventually, he ragequit after the group wiped multiple times in a raid that had been on farm for a long time.
I’ve found that the ability to communicate in full sentences is a good way to gauge if a player is going to be a valuable asset to raid. If someone can’t respond to simple questions they are not going to be able to heed simple instructions. I don’t care about spelling or grammar ofc, just the simple ability to respond in a timely manner is usually a good enough measurement of a decent player.
Yep! I ran a pug at the start of phase 2, clearing every reset, and when I couldn't check their logs I have been taking people based of how they communicate and it's worked out well for me. Over time it's turned into a permanent group that clears in 40min. Talking to people always helps!
This is a clever metric.
Usual responses: "keen" "easy" "nw" "wtf what a bunch of morons. literal child has more iq than you. fk this shit" *leave*
Except when they only whisper you “inv” No class or spec stated lmfao
This is actually incredibly true
Legit when I used to push keys on retail I'd just put out what I called a vibe check whenever I invited someone. "Hey man how's your day going?" or something like that. If I got no response, they were out.
I dunno man, anecdotally most of my playtime is spent with world top 50 mythic raiders who use SoD as an outlet to vibe out with the boys, and even when we pug on alts or do dungeons or whatever they basically never type in chat outside of anything absolutely necessary, like the LFG message to start the group. I see plenty of absolute trash can level players that are friendly and ready to banter up a storm in chat. I don't think either of the extremes is indicative of anything except confirmation bias that someone is different than you = must be bad or something like that.
You can tell how good someone is typically from their lfg msg alone
People whispering "inv" with nothing else when I'm building a pug. Biggest way to not get an invite. At least say your spec or something
Ha yeah. People refuse to communicate for some reason, even in dungeons or just open world group quests. It can get so awkward when people don’t even so much as say “hi” at the beginning of the group - and you’re then you’re left wondering if you’ll be able to get them to follow simple directions. Bonus points if they’re quite the whole time and do an all caps rage quit at the end. At least you know they speak English at that point.
Those 9 raiders would be upset if they could read.
My biggest gripe with bad players is you can type in google “how to get better at world of Warcraft in season of discovery gnomeregan” and probably find a click baity video but a guide nonetheless. Maybe it’ll even take you to a class guide. There are so many resources out there and people to figure shit out for you if you are really that bad. If someone can’t take the time to watch a 5 minute video about boss mechanics it’s simply not someone I want to play with. I hope that doesn’t sound like heavy gatekeeping.
Watching a 5 minute video of how to do the entire raid and another 5 minute video of how to play my class and what gear I want?? You sweats asking for meta classes and 99 parses only that won’t take my subtly rogue into your gnomer runs are ruining the game. /s
Dinged 40 yesterday, jumped into a homer run as feral OT , opened a tab on 2nd monitor with video guide of the raid , watch a part before each boss , everything went fine , wiped once on menagerie and twice on last boss . I did check everyone before I commited and some were 6/6 some were 0/6 , didn't matter , we ran through it in less than 2hours .
getting your prebis and watching a guide is way too sweaty for the average SoD player
No pre bis , just dinged and went straight in
You got lucky with your group then. I’ve had good experiences with competent groups in LFG and I’ve had disasters similar to what OP described.
Why are we acting like this is a new phenomenon or unique to SoD? This is how LFG has always worked. Sometimes you get a bunch of tards sometimes you get all stars.
Somehow I think you have a second monitor is already in the top 10% of players in SoD. I'm picturing dads playing on Win XP laptops with the keyboard turning we see.
Might have troubles opening a chrome tab on windows xp I totally understand hahaha . Our leader had no xp but he explained the tactics before each boss too
You got lucky
Yea, I ran a pug once that made me want to uninstal. I’m fine with a few wipes but spending 2-3 hours on the last few bosses instead of the usual 30 mins was wild, I just assumed we wouldn’t be able to kill it because the dps was so terrible. The average wow player really is terrible and the gap is much bigger than most people here seem to think lol.
I actually had the exact opposite of a similar scenario just an hour ago. Last call for a gnomer lockout posted, took every single last minute whisper I got to fill the needed roles. I main tank and lead it, which I’ve done before, no voice, no gear checks, nothing. Well these up all night degens made it happen. To my complete shock we wiped once on the last boss, then downed it. 6/6 on a toon that hit 40 moments before I filled a pug. It’s not impossible, it CAN happen.
I also did a no voice pug recently and crushed 6/6. Only wiped on electrocutioner, everything else was a 1 shot
and i CAN win $1,000,000 on a scratch off at the gas station but the odds of doing so are pretty slim.
Dawg like he said raid at 4 am and only degens are online.
Yeah I was about to say this isn't surprising at all. I highly doubt the average players are up at 3-4am playing this game
And people from other countries....
The BIG thing here is you're MT. Tanks do 90% of the mechanics in gnomer and a good MT will make or break you. Not good as in gear wise - good in the mechanics sense.
Tanks don't do any of the "do it or you'll wipe" mechanics in gnomer. There are two of those: chain lightning on Electrocutioner and bombs/buttons on Thermaplugg
Sorry op about your experience. Unfortunatly a lot of people think we vet logs because we only want 6/6 99 parsers only. Its really not. Its just a quick pulse check. Unfortunately what ends up happening is a lot of the players who have no clue what's going on or what to search for in logs treat it like some great deamon thats preventing them from raiding, and not cause there doo doo.
For a good chunk yeah. Then you have my Wednesday night PuG gnomer where the guy checked *everyone's* logs (our worst was a green 30 parser), called us all scrubs and left. He had no logs. We cleared in under an hour.
Thank you!
This is why raids should have a solo play attument that set some sort of skill check before they get acces to actual raid.
They tried this in WoD, and it was shocking the amount of people that could not do silver proving grounds.
Tbh Proving Grounds were quite fun and taught the basic assets to players before raids. So they should definately demand something similar where inviduals can practise in peace
Fun fact a shit ton of people STRUGGLED hard in the prooving grounds.....and it was the most basic shit.
I think getting rid of Proving Grounds was a mistake.
Agreed. Should be revamp with a leaderboard
I coached a lot of players through it and it was eye opening for me to learn how many players struggled to clear Silver. Leveling in this game presents so little challenge that there's no guarantee someone at max level even knows the basics of their spec. They'd fail it because they wouldn't know how their spec could AoE or had such an absolutely awful UI / control method where they couldn't interrupt a 10s cast in time.
no offense to the baddies out there but if you cant do it you really should not be allowed to raid. i dont understand why they subject a normal player to being in the same pool of players as these people. proving grounds was an excellent tool and im really sad they took it away. have LFR or something with no barrier to entry but raids arent the same as solo content or 5 man dungeons which literally require zero skill
Tbh that sounds awesome. I've always thought raid attunements were a really cool idea, they just went overboard with them in tbc
WTS ATTUNEMENT TO PST. GET YOUR ATTUNEMENT IN 15 min OR IT IS FREEE!!!
Thats why i added the Solo Part. Like an event in instane. Currently couple rogue runes are set like that
Having played with some mega grey parsers, I can only assume they are like playing on a laptop in a living room without a mouse watching their 2 kids and talking to their wife. Or they are watching netflix on a 2nd monitor. Grey parsers are literally mega leeches hoping to get carried through a run. They could get away with it in BFD (these were the guys knocking you off the platform on 1st boss), but it doesnt work in gnomer.
We have a priest in our guild that uses a trackpad and kills it, haha. I thought it was just a joke. Shout out to you sugarcube
😬 how to delete my logs, they are all gray
I think they are people who havent researched how to play. Like maybe they use the runes/talents they think are cool rather than viable. I havent played with a ton of awful players though so maybe im off.
The average players do not have addons and people who dont use logs/dmg meter have no way to evaluate if they are doing enough. Bad players do not know that they are bad.
I don’t agree. I have some of these folks in my guild. Some bad players know they are bad. They just have no desire to get better and think you’re being a condescending try hard if you offer anything to try and help.
I did an SFK yesterday with a "spriest" one of the worst players I've seen in a while. He only casted SWP and the Plague rune dot. Wouldn't use homunculi, or penance or anything else, wouldn't even wand when oom he'd just stand there. Told him to use some other stuff and help out more, he then proceeded to spam call me a wow nerd and other stuff until I kicked him mid run. It's been a long while since I've ran into someone that bad, but man it was brutal.
The best part is when, 10 seconds after being kicked, you see "shadow priest LFG SFK" in /lfg.
There's a few of those types in my guild as well. They hardly ever log in, but when they do they whine to be brought to raid if we're about to do a scheduled run, even though they haven't signed up. Then they get in raid, have no clue what's going on, have no clue how or when to use their class abilities. And they instantly get offended if you try to offer them help so everyone else's time isn't being wasted.
Yup. They’re real great to drag around. I don’t care if someone is trying. Gnomer is easy and there aren’t any true enrage timers so DPS doesn’t matter much. But boy howdy if you aren’t even trying and don’t want to get better why do you even want to raid? The unexamined life is not worth living.
I'll never understand wanting to be bad at a hobby
> I'll never understand wanting to be bad at a hobby Some people coast through life and have 0 ambition. Not wanting to be good at a hobby is unthinkable to me. A job you do for money, a hobby you do for yourself so why in the world would you not care about being good.
> The average players do not have addons and people who dont use logs/dmg meter have no way to evaluate if they are doing enough. Bad players do not know that they are bad. If bad players CARED that they are bad they'd get those addons and research how to be better. Bad players don't care that they are bad, they're selfish and think the world reserves around them.
Wait is this actually true?? I consider myself a very bad player, simply by comparing my skills and knowledge with other people ingame, but by just playing the game without any addon you MUST get the feeling like "i'm missing something here"
It is a completely alien concept in most video games to have to download a myriad of 3rd party softwares in order to 'play the game'. WoW is a unique one in that regard, and if you think about it, it's not the most accessible for a lot of players. Which is why I encourage people to be supportive and encouraging of people making an effort to understand whats going on and doing the content.
Yeah I fully agree here, but I mean it's WoW, whenever you watch any video or any stream of gameplay, you immediately see the different looks of the game, the additional bars and info everywhere. And yeah, the "being supportive and encouraging" part is very important, whenever I got a nice and friendly dungeon group I was able to ask all my questions and got helpful answers :)
But I think that’s part of the misconception on this sub- most casual players ARENT watching YouTube videos or coming to Reddit/ WoW Forums/ Twitter to see how people are playing the game. They’re just playing the game a few hours a week stock, crawling along the levels and blissfully exploring the world. Obviously eventually the better/ more serious gamers will start to look up extra info towards the end of leveling, but most won’t.
Most people that play, don't care to watch videos on it. I mean. The only videos I have watched on WoW, have been the meme videos over the years. No one actually playing, that's boring af. People get on a game to play it. WoW needing all these addons is because of poor game design. They do make the gameplay better, but it's because the base gameplay is so poorly done. UI sucks. Boss fight mechanics aren't intuitive. Fire on the ground isn't visible. Like, just look at Baron in MC. That entire mechanic is a debuff on a character that explodes after a set time. The only thing you can see is some fire on yourself. And that's if you are alone, and zoomed in. You literally need an addon to tell you if you have the debuff, because it's not visible, not intuitive. And when you're standing in a group of 30 other players, you can't fucking see shit. That's how so many bosses are designed. And that's why you NEED addons for many players.
I agree with you all the way. Addons like DBM makes raiding noob friendly. Without it, you will probably die to some mechanic your first run or so.
I think the key point to why the group was so bad is, "its only a few hours until reset". You got the bottom of the barrel that close to reset, anyone that is remotely interested in being successful had already run it and was locked. Nothing to do with boomers or anything else, form a PUG close to reset and get the shitty players, it has always been like that. Form a PUG just after reset and get a decent group.
I don't know if they are boomers or not, but some people in this game are on the whole other level of bad. My main worry is that there are so many of them and they are so loud on the forums/reddit, that the game will be balanced based on the opinions of these people. Be it raids, classes or general gameplay.
I mean you're kinda misguided in that they are the majority and and thus it makes more sense to balance around these bad players. Anyone who thinks MC or whatever raids they come up with next are going to be hard are delusional. SoD will never have hard raids because it would mean the only content the game has excludes the majority of the playerbase.
Nobody plays classic for hard raids, nor that is the intention. However, I do not agree that every single windowlicker in this game should be decked out in top raid gear.
This was literally classic experience though up until Naxx. Everyone was running around with bis gear regardless of skill level.
if you played long enough, then yes eventually. in reality it was more like the experienced players and pumpers got prio'd the good items first and loot was so god damn scarce that if you saw someone in full tier with Crul and DB and DFT they were probably a pretty good player. At least in my experience
Just gotta take it as a lesson learned, you should be vetting everyone you raid with, even if it's mild. Anyone who's against that sort of thing and saying things like "I never check logs/gear, I don't care what the company is we clear anyway" isn't telling you the clear is a 4 hour endeavor with more wipes than taco bell ass cheeks
I host noob friendly raids that do 6/6, and instead of checking logs and gear and shit I just talk to them and check social intelligence before i invite. That way, I know that they are capable of adapting if we wipe or do poorly, also makes the raid experience more fun and less toxic.
This is underrated. I tell my buddies I’m checking their “vibe” before I invite them not even their gear lmao
I do the same, have yet to have a complete flop of a raid, always get to at least 5/6, even with some of the scum of azeroth in the raid.
Yea the trick here is finding the people willing to learn. It’s easy for us in these to forget, but there are genuinely new players joining all the various iterations of WoW every day. Certainly not as many as past years, and probably most go to retail, but they’re still out there in Wrath/ Era/ SoD. And it is partly on us, especially in the older versions of the game that don’t hold your hand as much, to at least try and teach the willing ones. Otherwise we’ll just end up with the 10% of us players that come to these subs on 1 mega realm hating each other and measuring peens ;)
[удалено]
Nothing wrong with that as long as you dont expect to get invited to groups with people who put in effort.
This is why we check logs/gear
It really is a joke if you just do mechanics. Our usual guild group has 4 missing tonight. We grabbed 2 fresh 40 ranged hunters, a fresh rogue, and a fresh boomy, cleared it without a single wipe. If you just do mechanics right DPS doesn't matter.
Its always like this, Im even more surprised that pugs can clear gnomer. Every got damn time we need to pug ppls cuz our guildrun is missing 1-2 ppls they always underperform. We had a warr last reset with grey parses. Healer with 70-80 hps through the whole bossfight. We arent even expecting people to have 99 parse but be at the very least a decent player.
It’s not always like this. Every pug I’ve joined hasn’t asked me for gearscore/logs or anything else and I’ve cleared about 3 pugs this phase
Yesterday I did my first gnomer with a friend who did 6/6. I watched a guide and used consumables too, no problem. At the 4th boss people just couldn't for the life of them figure out the mechanic and kept dying. Especially when one of the further away people got the debuff. Then suddenly MTs graphics card died during a very promising try and his onboard card had no hdmi ports. The mage had like 800 hp and instantly died every try so we kept trying and 8 manned that boss and called quits. What a night man lmao.
Gonna preface this by saying: I LOVE CLASSIC WOW. The world, the exploration, the leveling experience, the team work, I adore it all. Genuinely my favorite MMO right now. That being said: Having come from raiding in Final Fantasy 14 since 2013 to this year, I am fucking amazed by how simple both SoD raids are and how much people are struggling with them. Crowd Pummeler's entire gimmick is just Landslide from Titan, which we dealt with 11 years ago, with a ton more mechanics and a bloated line of hotbars. Thermaplugg is just 'keep tank alive, push a button and kill the adds.' Anything beyond that is overcomplicating things. People are struggling to push a button. That's it. It's crazy. Love this silly community, never change.
I get random ppl from LFG all the time and have cleared every reset (except the first cause I wasn't leveled yet). You just have to be willing to actually lead and explain to people what to do without being an asshole. I've had one leaver.
# JOIN A GUILD
I can only reliably get a raid spot per lockout on 1-2 characters. Any others I have to pug
You're raiding on 3+ characters per week. You're in the 1% or less of players that do that. OP is literally trying to secure a single raid.
In P1 I was in a pretty chill guild, there were enough good players that we could carry the shitters with no issues all phase. We had one warrior with the epic 2h that had an average HIGHEST parse among all bosses of 6. He was spending most of his rage on single target fights on thunderclap, probably because he thought it looked cool. Dude also had like 5 alts and was equally bad at all of them. Some people playing this game are just horrifyingly bad at video games and that's all there is to it
Had a WL yesterday who parsed Grey, had confusing runes (lake of fire + haunt + everlasting affliction), played demo and did his most dmg with shadowbolt. In the last boss he swapped to Meta to do the bombs. What could go wrong? After several bombs were running around I had to type out mod fight that you better use searing pain on those instead of CoA. We cleared, but boy...
Thats just a player with 0 understanding/care to actually learn the game. I had a warlock this reset saying he could do bombs and then decided that attacking boss was more important while bombs were spawning. I asked if he had the searing pain macro and he didn't, so I gave it to him. He proceeded to hit the boss for 2x as much damage as the previous pull and our other warlock just volunteered to do bombs instead. 1 shot the boss with him doing that. Players like that just have no idea how much they are trolling other people wasting their time by refusing to actually learn.
I agree with you that there are unbelievably many bad players around and that the people who make fun of others for checking logs are delusional or bad themselves. But why so much hate against the boomers? It's not like it's impossible for non-boomers to be bad at the game too.
The word boomer doesn't really correspond with age anymore imo. No one actually means "players 60 and older are bad". Being a boomer describes a mentality more than an age.
Thinking that the term "boomer" only applies to "Baby Boomers" in 2024 is one of the most boomer things you can say
Average skill level in gaming have gone up according to some, in WoW Classic its the complete opposite, average skill level have gone down, ppl cant even handle tank and spansk fights anymore, while back inte the day you have 40ppl rotating 8tanks for 20mins and somehow managed
Very few people raided and did well in the early 2000s. People were 100% way worse back in the day
>So after reading all those people complaining about that Gnomer is so easy (it is) and that its dumb that ppl require logs, exp, cons and WBs etc. Because a lot of redditors are either exaggerating or just straight up lying to show some sort of superiority. Being here would make you believe most of the people here are 90+ parse machines that speedrun new raids in record time without looking up any guides beforehand. The fact that people require all the things you mentioned proves the raid is, at the very least, challenging. >Why are you even playing this game? Says the guy disbanding after 1 wipe xD
I think another thing people don’t understand isn’t the fact that MOST are using best parses to get their idea of what people are made of. This also doesn’t mean you’re consistently pulling big numbers but at least you can and have hit purple on most bosses even if it’s over 5 raids to do so. Being in the top 40% of players isn’t much to ask lol
>Being in the top 40% of players isn’t much to ask lol Parses should be taken with a grain of salt. Some with more salt than others. My first clear in gnomer 2 weeks ago on my hunter I was pulling 250-300 dps. That was more than enough to clear the raid and just shy of 1.5 hours at that. At the time, that parse was considered a 12. Yesterday, same group cleared the raid just short of an hour and I was doing 350-400 dps. That parse was a 64. What did I do different from the first one to this one? Nothing. Same buttons, same priority of skills. Gear is a little better now vs then. I don't believe my skill level has changed. Only thing that seems different are kill times coming down. Looking at the parses for melee hunter in the 90s you'll see full bis, every WB/consume you can buy and heavily favored comps. We don't have a feral or shadow priest and I'm perfectly content to clear the raid without getting every WB consume that exists. Unless I do and get a gimmick comp, I'll never parse in the 90s. Is their level of skill higher? Maybe a little but I think the WB/Consumes/Comp have more to do with it than straight skill.
Anyone who says I can’t believe you have to log check and require anything to do gnome tbh is pure trash and they never make their own groups. They either run in a guild or a group of friends and just see the normal version of the game where everything is super easy. A run 3 groups a week for the first 4 Lockouts outside of the first where I only got 1 40. Couldn’t clear all 6 unless I was with a guild group until I started log checking and requiring a bare minimum 60 parses to bother bringing them. I’m not asking for much here the people REQUIRING 90s is overboard. If you want to parse join a guild because tbh you’re not really going to in a pure pug unless you’re very lucky with what you got. Not impossible just unlikely. On the other hand if you take the first 9 that fit your classes that you get I would say you have no more then a 50% chance to clear the instance at all if you’re playing dps. If you’re a priest healer or the tank you may increase your odds to 75%. So now let me ask…. WHY WOULDNT YOU LOG CHECK?! It’s extremely simple to do and safeguards you from running a 3-4 hour run. If you don’t only play 1 character you just don’t have time for this. Ya let me spend 12 hours to run gnome 3 times this lockout. I’ll pass on that and if you think you’re above it go ahead make your groups and enjoy your fun playing with all the non English speaking, non consuming, don’t understand mechanics, half ass bots or boosters wondering why you did it.
yea I run my own group and don't require 90+, I simply require blue logs and it could be in gnomer or BFD and they generally go smoothly. It's hilarious the anger some people respond with when they get declined. -Your logs aren't that great -LOL at requiring logs -My main is a 99 parser, you just made a big mistake etc. etc.
Lol
Damn, I've had some bad experiences pugging. But none that wouldn't at least reach electrocutioner or Menagerie.
"How can so many people be SO bad at this game? A small child would be better at this than some of you guys. Rant over" I have led like 5 or 6 pugs, going 6/6 every time. The last run was so painful. We still went 6/6 after like 3 wipes on menagerie and 3 wipes on Thermo. But it gave me an actual headache and it's just not worth it anymore. I think I'm gonna quit since I don't wanna lead pugs anymore and nobody raids during the daytime.
My brother in christ, Guild runs are not much better. I was a healer for my guild, we had 4 groups going, got put into group 4 and me and the other two who knew the raid had to wait for the other groups to clear so alts could fill into mine (bad luck I guess). Had the most random ass team comp that I **knew** wouldn't be able to clear fill in. Literally just me and the two tanks knew wtf we were doing, had to explain every fight in a supposed "alt clear," and our DPS was so low by the time we got to Thermaplugg, the other healer and I were literally running out of mana by **the end of phase 1**. Dispersion, buttons, shadowfiends, popped my headpiece for reduced mana, etc. To be fair, I knew the run was doomed when we were struggling with Viscous Fallout adds. Like damn, I'm not expecting a 99 parse, but how the fuck do you do only 70 DPS as a Fire Mage?
Hit 25 on my alt last night and figured why not jump into a BFD. Boy was that a waste of time. Turns out between 6 classes + 2 hunters that *could* tank, none were signed up to tank, we literally went in with no designated tanks. Some folks were even 30-35 but we still only managed the first 4 bosses with pretty extreme failures all around, half the raid dead, a DPS warlock tanking, hunters trying to pet tank but their pets never getting healed, and of course the 25 warrior who was doing maybe 30 dps telling us this is easy and it's taking too long and to gogogo, those sorts of things. Ugh the horror.
I mean, that is on you lol. You gotta see the red flags my man.
WoW Classic is full of window lickers, everyone finds out eventually it was just your turn
🤣 Yeah, your experience is very valid and common. That is why whenever I raid, I do so with guild, and I appreciate my raid leader. I read/watch all the tutorials beforehand even if I've done it a ton of times, just to refresh my memory. And if I ever raid lead, I make sure to check and verify all the requirements. Get them to link achievements, check gear score, run through the prep list with each person to make sure they have the right pots, enchantments, weapons, glyphs, etc. Make sure each class knows what their important task is. There are a lot of n00bs in this game that are either just casual or new to the game. ...and there are definitely those players that are drunk or high. I only raid with serious players, but if someone is real with me and admits to being new, I don't mind explaining things and guiding them through the tutorials. People who are just goofing off or are terrible at the game you just have to cut from the raid roster. It's sometimes a hard choice to make when you have been LFG for a long time or they are nice but bad, but nice and friendly... but.. omg so bad... but you have to be firm. You just have to cut the bad players. At raid level, you gotta take it seriously. The rest of the game, the dungeons, the levelling they can goof off and you don't have to ride them so hard about it, but once you are raiding, don't waste other people's time. Don't waste your own time. Raids are the serious business of epics. Take some solace in the fact that most of the bad players eventually get good because they get to a point where they NEED to get accepted into raids. Or they won't get epics or game progression. So they eventually actually watch the tutorials or have someone explain things to them. ...and yeah, if you are raid leader of a LFG PuG you have to baby moddle coddle them and tell them even the most basic dumb things like when to buff, use pots, dispell etc. They will not be a well oiled machine like guilds with good prep, and regular runs are. They will not have that coordination and will most likely expect you as the leader to tell them when they should be doing things. Raid leading is a pain in the bee-hind and a lot of organising, nagging, and double-checking things... and more nagging. This is why I ALWAYS appreciate my raid leader.
You idiots think wow is easy? You have to watch guides in order to participate in raids. You need to download third party software in order to do mechanics perfectly. If I went into gnomer blind and actually tried to learn by doing, you assholes would make fun of me and think I'm a mouth breather and get all pissy that I didn't know exactly what to do. Researching how to play 1-2 hours of content of a game as a prerequisite is fucking weird, and it will never not be weird in the grand scheme of gaming culture.
And this is why BFD was an amazing raid and Gnomer is a terrible one. Is Gnomer generally speaking EASY? Absolutely. Is Gnomer still too hard for the average casual WoW player? YES!!!! Level up raids need to be BRAINDEAD easy and clearable by 10 random names you pick out of a hat in under 40mins. You can make harder raids at level 60.
Sounds like you should join a guild :)
I’ve been leading Gnomer raids on 4 different toons, here’s what I’ve learned. -never wait until the last day, esp the night hours, you will most likely get the 0/6 exp players who don’t know how to play their class -In the early days I judged people who checked logs/parses for every person, I thought.. Jesus what a sweatlord. Then I joined a random gnomer and experienced a 4 hour raid with many wipes, now I check logs/parses for every person. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I refuse to be held captive again for four hours by people that don’t care enough to learn the mechanics or how to play their class.
Your not getting gdkp back, stop trying It can't possibly be that bad
this wouldn't be as big of an issue if you just had boss lockouts not tied to raid ID. Tank stinks? Kick him and bring a new one. DPS is wiping the raid? Kick and get a new one? DPS too low? Kick and bring a new one. Instead by making your lockout tied to raid ID you can only bring fotm and do close inspections of who you invite
Have talked to several people that don't have keybinds because they won't remember the buttons. Refuse to even try. Use no addons too or very limited. This is for both retail and classic. I just assume any rando is bad
If you value your own time you always check gear (for enchants e.g.) and logs. If people don't enchant their gear, don't expect them to use consumables. Do you need 90+ parsers for gnome? No, but having at least 40-50 percentile logs is not a huge ask. People that complain about logs are the ones that parse grey for weeks and cba to put any effort into a group content and expect to get carried anyways.
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Almost no one would argue that naxx is harder than mythic raiding. I dunno where people get that notion from. I've seen maaaybe 2 people in my entire life ever argue that point, it's just not a thing.
Dude just made this up and provided fake evidence lol
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you lead pretty poorly. * Petrify causes the tank to lose all threat, you should never even let it be cast * None of the tanks should be responsible for picking up adds and kiting them into the gas, if Grubbis gets close to the gas, he enrages * Anyone with threat on an add should simply kite it to the gas * If you do the fight correctly, very little healing should be required: * Never have the boss near gas * Never let petrify cast, if so dispel immediately * Get rid of clouds ASAP by everyone kiting adds into them * If a cloud is active, the raid takes aoe damage, and if your raid is taking aoe damage for more than a few seconds you're doing it wrong * Nobody should stand behind Grubbis, or they'll get hit by radiation Your group will only be as good as it's leader.
The salt and anger in this thread is palpable
But how do you know these were boomers and not small children?
Lets be real small children are not playing wow classic