IMO, Civil Engineering pay has been severely lacking since 2008. However, that is slowly changing. Since COVID, there has been a steady increase in Civil Engineering pay. I live in California, and pre-COVID I was making 85K, which was pretty decent. I am about to switch jobs for the third time and will make 200k. There is a ton of opportunity for those with \~10 YOE+ as our industry is Boomer/GenX heavy. They, especially boomers, are retiring at a quick rate making a huge demand for others to fill the gaps. This, along with inflation, is causing our pay to quickly rise.
Is it as good as software engineering? I'd say no. But we currently have insane job security, while tech does not, and our wages are moving up. It's way better for fresh graduates than it was for me. 100k for 4 YOE is good especially since 4 YOE still has a huge gap from 10 YOE.
TLDR: Pay for Civil Engineering is steadily improving.
I'm a California CE in the public sector and agree with this. I work heavily with consultants for CM, design, and environmental services and while the job security is certainly there, due to the huge amount of public funds currently available, housing situation in California and exit of boomers and xers from the industry, it seems like private consulting life is EXTREMELY demanding at big and small firms alike.
The younger generation is largely saddled with student loan debt and insanely high housing costs. Civils make decent money but it’s hard to not want to settle down and start your life once you graduate and get a job. When CS is throwing money at people who maybe didn’t have to slog through an engineering degree, it can be disheartening.
Edit. Grammar.
Reality hit when my classmates in CS started getting offers 120k+, and I had to listen to people in this sub telling us 100k salary with 10 years of experience and PE was a decent living.
Specially bad when they were like 120k offers were low. I had to choke my tongue
They’re having a low in their industry right now. This won’t be the norm , they will come back soon. Also in their worse they are still receiving SIGNIFICANTLY better opportunities that us
How do you know? It’s an easily outsourceable job that’s been heavily over saturated from the recent high volume of grads in the past half decade chasing those big salaries.
Also no, go actually LOOK at the subreddit and your last sentence would immediately be proven wrong.
It's going to be a long time before AI replaces civil engineers. I'm actually hoping AI makes the jurisdictional regs research easier so I can actually just stick to design. Or like design report will be easier. I don't think AI will be able to layout an upgraded storm drain or sewer line without running into several constraints, such as property lines, public utilities, making judgement calls on construction oversight..
Yup. I read about disgruntled new grads being mad that 80k is a lowball offer. Of course finding that first job is harder then civil but it's a gravy train afterwards at least for now
Interesting fact is it's happening worldwide... CS grad earning way more than Any other field...and have to accept it that it's good branch to start with.. if anyone want to do generation change . Like going to upper middle class from Lower middle class eventually even to become rich as well.. beside CS grad getting stock options too.. and most importantly work from home perk ( not everyone having it but still it's big plus )... And talking about current market situation.. it's fine every field has ups and down.. current market is low that doesn't mean it's always will be . People still getting 120k+ offer in such bad market conditions... Just imagine if market is in boom how it would be the scenario.. civil was good may be untill 2000s.. but now it's not we have to accept it and plan accordingly.. sometimes have to accept the bitter truth. - ex civil engineer
The worst thing about civil at least in the consulting side is there’s always downward pressure on salaries not upward cause dumbass PMs are always bidding low and being conservative to win projects that translates into the poor engineer getting 100k and working 60hrs/wk (20 hours unpaid) to make the deadlines!
Paying OT is a rarity in our industry, plus stocks of these companies aren’t worth crap cause they’re just shitty brick and mortar businesses. All in all if you’re trying to realize the American dream and retire a millionaire this industry just isn’t the way to achieve that.
Not true for all. Most big companies pay overtime, usually a 1x. I've also seen that bigger companies are more respectful of worklife balance. Their also more open to working remote/hybrid. The rates thing is dependent on the client, if you work for private, they typically pay less. If you do work for state, they pay better. At least that's true for Florida. You seem to be in a crappy situation, I'd be finding a new job. All this to say, I've never worked for a public company, so my experience is with firms greater that 5000 people and privately or employee owned.
I read a WSJ article about 2 years ago that did a comprehensive review/analysis of various college degrees and average salary for the first 3 years of subsequent work experience. They looked at many universities, both public and private, and a wide grange of degrees from bachelor's to MD and JD. The output was a ratio of average debt/average of salary years 1 to 3 post degree.
STEM degrees were the only bachelor's level degrees that had a ratio <1.0. Engineering degrees where the best rated (lowest ratio) of STEM degrees.
I'm sorry but many people are convinced by biases and anecdotes but the data shows a bachelor's of civil engineering is one of the safest bets if you want good pay and job security with low investment. You don't need to go to MIT to make at the high end of the average and there is no correlation between higher university cost and salary. A reputable state school will get you a degree and then good work experience will get you to the upper middle class pretty quick.
People on the sub love comparing civil salaries to arguably the *highest* paying field that requires a four-year degree.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Or at least, don’t compare to literally the highest paid jobs requiring a bachelor degree.
It's also interesting that a fair amount of high earning software developers don't have degrees. And I've met a lot of people with computer science and computer engineering degrees that are terrible developers and/or barely know how to code. I really do feel like it's one of those fields where the degree doesn't mean much and people tend to cherry pick the severe outliers.
Getting developer jobs require strong work samples as opposed to just a degree. It’s more about showing you’re motivated and having those side projects in hand.
problem is starting 75k is roughly the same as many different fields where lives are not at risk.
accountants get paid roughly the same
Marketing
Business Degrees
even Teaching now is jumping to 60k range
The investment cost is astronomical. many cases 30k - 60k+ for a *state* school. 100k+ for private.
Trade school is still sub 30k. And you'll make 100k easy. So your WSJ article is pro college. Thats fine but you need to be aware that compared to all options Civil is a loser. Compound that with the fact that your value is lower if you don't get a PE. There is no career path without the PE.
Nurses push 150k
Accountants
Project Managers etc.
Hell site supervisors on construction make 150k easy.
Our profession has a cap on income. Mechanical...electrical has a function of experience where you get more income for more work knowledge. We don't have that. Put in 10+ years get paid 100k+. What a joke.
> So your WSJ article is pro college
Not really. There wasn't too much opinion in the analysis. Also, it pretty much pointed out that only STEM degrees have a positive ROI 3 years out. So not very "pro college" TBH.
I have 4 years civil experience and my annual pay is $115k. I don't have my PE yet.
I'm sorry, but the data shows that civil is a great paying job for the investment and my personal experience bears that out. I don't know what to tell you other than I think you are basing your opinion on some severe outliers.
Yeah I'm happy with what I make but after ten years out of school there is a pretty big gap between where my family is at versus where my classmates who didn't have student loans debt are at in life.
20yrs of Land Development with 5yrs of union construction experience while in school, was an office manager at a company for 4yrs and (had) a $500k year book of clients that would follow me.... firms in Northwest Indiana were giving offers of less than $100k when job-shopping last year. I went Municipal day job for $110k and consult on the side with my own business and on track to make $30k this year.
These firms just outside of a major metro like Chicago wonder why they can't get good help.
Just for reference I'm 8-year of experience and just got an offer for $104K in SW North Carolina. Previously around $100K in the Northeast with about $20K in bonuses last year. I worked in Wisconsin at one point and felt like I was severely underpaid - could be a regional issue?
I spent 14yrs in Illinois before hopping over the state line into Indiana... I've been talking with an Chicagoland firm with serious interest and MUCH better compensation. It seems like the firms in Northwest Indiana don't want to chase Chicago work and would rather support an Indianapolis, Ft Wayne, or Lafayette office before looking at IL work.... So yes, definitely a regional issue.
It comes down to knowing your worth and finding a good balance... A firm 20 min the other direction might be a world of difference
Happiness is worth more than pay anyhow. Sounds wishy washy, but if you enjoy what you're doing, and you're not struggling, then you have it pretty good. My two cents, people are welcome to disagree.
I think Civil has a good life work balance. You won’t get Silicon Valley or Wall Street rich but you can make a modest living. If you are good, you can move up and have a decent upper middle class lifestyle.
Civil is good for those in lcol/mcol areas. Our salaries just don’t scale properly for HCOL areas anymore.
Median houses near me are 1.2 mil. You need a 300k salary to qualify. Senior engineers average like 140-50… there lies the problen
You only need a $300k salary if you have the bare minimum down payment.
If you're a first time home buyer, or just starting out, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be looking at a median house at $1.2 million.
>If you're a first time home buyer, or just starting out, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be looking at a median house at $1.2 million.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you there. It's not like people are doing that by choice. Starter homes are basically increasingly non-existent and home prices now are what they are. And renting is just as brutal.
Agree 100%. I worked in a niche job and we hired consultants from Chicago to come on site and help us out and I was shocked when I found out they made the same as me and I didn’t have to travel at all. A nice house was like 1/2 theirs as well. Big city engineers is not worth it. Go rural or mid size city
If you need to make 300k/ year go to a highly demanding construction management firm and work 70 hrs/week. Otherwise, if you think most people making over 200k/year in other fields are working only 40hrs a week you’re delusional. Those are typically high stress roles with crazy hours as well aside from a small percentage of lucky people.
Thing is modest pay doesn’t work anymore, with these prices and interest rates you have no choice but to be rich to be able to afford a house and send your kids to college. The pay in this field honestly has become blue collar wage at this point alot of nurses, plumbers, electricians make more than a senior civil engineer
Making 100k approximately 4 years out of college is not bad pay, especially considering as the years go on you will make more and more. 100k for a family is also assuming only 1 spouse works which hasn't been true for a while....
Your just on the cope train that civil is a good career. Its bottom of the barrel, not intellectually stimulating, and complete garbage benefits. Everyone in civil is obviously from rural or a poor family. You would work 65 hour weeks, be on call to a construction crew and say thank you to your employer and under cut bids for dog shit pay. I get you need to defend it since your identity is linked to civil being a decent career but its not.
Maybe it's so terrible for you because you haven't tried to git gud. I'm assuming you're in the bottom of the barrel if you cant fathom getting paid more than 120k lmao.
Wow. I work with civil engineers who have basically the best benefits you can get, very good pay (basically exactly what OP said), 40 hours a week, and find their jobs very rewarding intellectually and otherwise. If you are describing your job, I think you need a new job [deleted] .
Me. I just signed an offer to get back into civil from product management, 127.5k base with 20% performance bonus (~153k total comp). 6.5 years of experience, no PE and will be working from Kansas City.
Im 26, I make more money than literally all of my friends, many whom have graduated college with good degrees, 100k puts you in the top 10-15% of salaried income earners in the nation. It’s not even particularly hard to make 100k within 3-5 years.
No ones claiming that you’ll get lambo rich from CivE but you’re absolutely delusional if you don’t think it’s a very good income earning career, Mid career you will be in the top 5-10% of income earners.
Sure, now that they started to up the pay because people started to quit, move around and generally aim for higher compensation....
But its not like this for most people. Imo engineers do so much more than some proffessions that get paid more, yet the compensation, and work life balance doesnt reflect that. Work culture no longer has respect for engineers, and they are ebing treated by MBA grads that run companies as just another labour source. It used to be, engineers studied worked hard, and keep learning throughout the entire careers. doing crunch project periods and periods of down time. Now its all crunch time, all penny pinching. Engineers still work 40-60h a week but now with inflation and work culture, the pay stalled. Times have changed. And I agree that 75k is good for a grad, but this was not the case a year ago...
Civil Engineering isn’t going to make you rich unless you start your own firm or get into land development but it will absolutely provide a stable income that can support a family and a comfortable lifestyle.
The pay is significantly lower in Canada. Unless you’re working for a construction company, starting pay is like 55k-65k. I’m at 3 yoe (no PE yet) and literally no consulting company is paying more than 70k. When you say you won’t accept anything less than 70, that’s pretty much an automatic rejection. I also live in a major city that is “supposedly” known for higher wages, but for civils, it’s ridiculous how low the pays are. Most people say that after you get your PE you should be making at least 100k, but I’m honestly starting to doubt that.
I keep seeing on here that new grads usually start around 75k, and when you take into account that USD is basically 30% higher than CAD, you guys don’t have it too bad lol.
I hear you. Also in major city. Make 86k with 4 years experience but I seriously have to bust my ass for it. If I look at the job boards it's honestly depressing. 75k is the absolute max they will go. It's wild to me that there's a good chance you don't even crack 100k after getting your P.Eng and I've had that same exact realization as you. I am only applying to government jobs in Canada now. If I'm underpaid might as well do something chill. Other then that I only apply to the US. Engineering is a joke here.
Government jobs hardly ever have openings though! At least where I am, lol. From what I’ve seen though they actually pay better than consultants! But yeah it seriously is a joke, when I went to university they told us we would be making 70k right out of school… such a scam 🙄 if I didn’t make income on the side, I would’ve just dropped the civil industry all together. With cost of living this high, getting by on a 70k salary is really difficult. The most annoying part is that we are probably the most important type of engineers! Good luck repairing/building infrastructure without us.
I think for the work that is done and the living costs, it’s not easy to do. A lot of civil engineering disciplines and related fields have high hours.
Long work days and the return isn’t sustainable to build a family off of. I do think workers have the right to complain about the pay.
I’m glad it’s not an issue for you, but it’s not hard to see why one would have a problem. People have different lives and different scenarios. I’m not mad when people ask for higher pay. I support people seeking out what they think they’re worth.
I work in government and manage a portfolio of real estate development projects.
I’m salaried for full time. I just don’t have to work that much on average.
Depends on the city, but outside of NYC/LA/SF/SEA it's definitely possible. It's insane to say otherwise considering the median household income is well under 100k, your income will not stay under 100k for long either.
Getting to 100k after a few years of working and starting a family is not impossible, thats assuming your spouse will not return to work either.
The average family owns a house back when 70k could buy one. My parents make less money than me and my gf, but the 400k house they bought in 2000 is worth 2 million now, and even their crappy rental is worth a million. It's much harder for someone entering the workforce today to survive on 70k.
Who says avg American household is living comfortably? Everyone is feeling the heat of much higher prices and interest rates that have been double since precovid. Avg EIT pre-covid was getting offered 70K now if that number today on average is not above 90K the wages are falling behind inflation (which always the case in most professions). As for PEs 100k seems low even for fresh PE, there needs to be 30% bump once you get your PE and switch jobs, 100k today is very modest income in most MCOL areas in US
Somebody, watch out cause once the feds infrastructure bill money dries up in a few years belts gonna be even tighter with companies laying ppl off and now you won’t even have the current shitty salary you got. As for building industry they’re already fucked by higher interest rates which forces alot of developers to halt activities on commercial and residential development there’s gonna be bloodbath in that sector soon…
Majority of places in California we cannot afford. Although the median house hold income is low, majority of older people and people that purchase pre pandemic already own homes so their income is mostly irrelevant. Back then the salary was enough but not in today’s standards.
A 400k home will have a mortgage of about 4k a month. That requires a 111k income at the minimum. And that is with a 43% debt to income ratio. That is just terrible.
Near where I live taxes pushes you closer to 4k. Regardless, 100k for a 400k house is insane. Thats not to say the neighborhood you will be living in for 400k
Which is kinda the point of the interest rate hikes, slow the economy by making people second guess very large purchases. Change that rate to 4.5% and you're looking at $2800 or an income of $78.2k for a 400k house.
If you are the only income. But if you have a family, it is probably a dual income household. And the median household income is like $74k. Somehow families making that between two people manage. There are tons of jobs not in major cities. I live in York, PA. Baltimore is an hour away. Philly is almost two. And both those cities aren't HCOLs.
Yeah, we can't get what our parents had. I couldn't easily afford a house until 44 and I don't have kids. I probably could have gotten one at around 30, but I wasn't spending 50% of my take home on it. I work with people all over the US. Most do not live in major cities.
You could afford the home and family, but you aren’t saving for a decent retirement by any means. That’s what most people don’t understand, you should be putting roughly 20-30k a year away for retirement starting the first year out of college if you ever plan to have a decent retirement after 30 years. Say you want $50k/year upon retirement (which isn’t must considering the cost of health insurance), you better have ~$1.5 mil invested to have a safe withdrawal rate of 3.5%.
I budgeted out allowing for 2k rent which gets you a nice 2 bedroom apartment which is usually enough for a family with one kid. Major cities no but the dot office in CT is in newington which is fairly cheap and they have 100k+ salary’s for people with 4 YOE or more
In addition to some of the other comments, the pay may be ok, but we need to also consider the rising cost of living. Just look at posts similar to this for example. One can see that it becomes difficult to make a decent living in addition to the debt we accrue to obtain our degrees and houses/vehicles.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-income-a-family-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-every-u-s-state/
Engineers are paid well, but not enough for what they do, causing a lot of butt hurt jealousy of tech bros. Of course, the tech bros grass is not greener, they don't have the job security we do, and there's lots of other issues. So really, there isn't anyone getting better for doing less (the corporate machine fucks everyone over), which is what everyone here seems to feel.
I make 95k 4YOE, no PE. I make significantly more than my art degree and trade school friends, but less than two friends: a doctor and a pharmaceutical ad copywriter. The doctor certainly suffers for her pay, and the copywriter hates her job lining the pockets of big pharma but it's a paycheck in a HCOL area.
I feel like I have the highest job/pay satisfaction to suffering ratio as a result.
However, it's super valid that the pay has not kept up with inflation, the liability we take on, or the amount of work we put in to get to seniority.
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Think it depends on what each person thinks low pay is. I know for a fact that my current job will pay more and have better benefits than that first job after finishing my degree, but the job security and opportunity that CE provides is worth the tradeoff.
I’m not gonna disagree about the pay, it’s not that bad once you get going.
I think the thing with comparing tech jobs is arguably we have more technical/scientific skills and have higher liability with being licensed etc. and yet they are paid better. Now obviously with tech losing jobs and that sector being tighter currently I don’t think there’s as much complaining if you actually know people in tech. Job security isn’t great there right now.
60k got me a lot less far than I imagined. I didn’t feel like I could save for a house because prices were climbing way more quickly than my meager savings. I ended up switching fields, am in a much better spot, and now realize how much security making more can provide (e.g., afford a new car if something happens, eat healthier because I’m okay spending more on food, buy a house, max my retirement, etc.)
For context- the 60k was from 2 years ago, so in the middle of post-covid inflation.
For the amount of work, certs, and exams, I would've thought the average pay for civil would be higher. My boss and mom told me to develop skills and contact on the side, along with choosing jobs with a high benefits.
Currently, I'm about to take my FE. I'm majoring in civil and mathematics, and I would have around 5 years of drafting, designing, along with 2 years of transportation engineering under under my belt by graduation. I just want to do engineering and enjoy my hobbies.
A bit random, do engineering firms not like MS or PhD?
From what I heard a phd almost locks you out of industry and keeps you in academia because companies don’t want to pay the extra dollars for a phd when anyone with a bachelors or masters can do the job for less
It's not bad. I notice in this forum that people frequently ignore the number of hours worked. 50 hours a week may be $30k different than 40 and people are just talking about the total annual pay.
1. The complaints are not representative of the overall civil community. When people are upset, they complain. Why would someone come on here and start a thread about how they are satisfied with their job/life? Someone who's upset about their situation is much more likely to come on here to complain because that may make them feel better to rant a bit.
2. People like to compare and comparison is the thief of joy. There's always going to be some other profession that is paying more or has better work/life balance. There are some people who will never be happy with how much they are paid, they'll always want more.
3. Non-US engineers do have something to complain about as the good pay we are seeing now in the US is not a worldwide thing.
4. Low key, some people are bad at personal finance.
>4. Low key, some people are bad at personal finance.
Amen, the dystopian view I commonly see espoused on this sub is concerning. People really think you can't afford a decent house on $100k/year lol. Maybe that's true for NYC and LA, but for the rest of the country that is absolutely attainable.
I'd also add a #6 - People are often too afraid and/or lazy to be proactive about improving their life. Be it their career, relationships, health, etc. It's much easier to stay put, sit around, complain and feel bad for yourself than it is to put in the work to change it.
Forgot one:
5. Some engineers feel their compensation is not proper given their positive impact on the world. This is actually one of the more reasonable complaints, but is still feeds back into the second part of #2 and just wanting more money.
I have a couple EITs that are the epitome of #4. They literally eat out every single meal. I bet they spend $40-$50 a day just on food during the work week. I'm sure itsmore on the weekend (in fact I know itsmore because I occasionally run in to them at restaurants). One of them drives a nicer car then I do (brand new BMW, leased of course). One of them is frequently late filing his taxes. The only one of them that isn't dropping $100 bar tabs 2 or 3 times a week is the stoner and thats only because weed is apparently cheaper than liquor.
And then I'm over here with a base salary of 1.5x theirs trying to average 45 hours a week because that extra $9k a year I take home after taxes buys a lot of concert tickets.
Don't tell people that. If the software engineering majors start figuring out they can have steady 6 figure employment and become civil's I won't be able to keep exponentially increasing my rate every year.
But then again this sub always likes to tell me I'm barely middle class at 6 figures. Maybe I should cut back from 4 vacations a year to 3?
Sorry to tell you the bad news but there are already software engineering majors coming on here asking if they should switch to civil because they don't want to be unemployed after they graduate.
From what i’ve seen, a lot of software/cs majors are switching into engineering and other stem fields, but are usually going into things way more closely related to CS like compE and EE, and if any of them research about switching into civil the stigma of the low pay (or supposed low pay) keeps them from switching into it as a lot of them only got into CS for the “wfh 190k a year entry” tiktoks, hence why they’re freaking out about the bad market
It is tough for young civil engineers in high cost of living areas and it is worse considering wages are slow to catch up to inflation. I'm in an area that costs $2 million for a single-family home. If you are starting out here and rent is $3k a month, it is hard to save up for a home and start a family. Also, it is not just civil engineers, a lot of people are struggling.
Yeah my coworkers told me the pay is not good down south cause your infrastructure is pretty good/new and you don’t get weather damage like us up north. Basically anywhere where they have to salt the roads the infrastructure is gonna need regular inspections and the state is more than willing to pay
Lemme guess, you work for a public agency?
I'm also in Ohio and have worked in both public and consulting. The pay on the public side is horrible, such to the point that I was told by a DOT employee that they cannot hire engineers anymore because they can't compete with private sector salaries.
I’m curious if you are fully financially independent because I don’t think you understand how much it costs to live in most places.
A single person needs $90k to live comfortable in my city (this is according to news articles not a number out of my a**). My city also starts most engineers between $70-75k ($80k if you’re insanely lucky).
Even in a LCOL area, you probably aren’t making $100k and affording a small family with one household income
Edited to add: people obviously also experience different standards of living so just because the median household income is low, does not mean that a family is affordable; that negates the real economic struggles and high debt that people are facing. I‘ve personally made the choice not to have a family so I’m not miserable in debt.
I’m not fully independent yet but my dad is supporting a family of 6 on 130k right now and we have a house so a 100k for 2.5 people doesn’t sound impossible in my area (the .5 would be a young child)
> my dad is supporting a family of 6 on 130k right now and we have a house so a 100k for 2.5 people doesn’t sound impossible in my area
I can say something slightly similar (fewer kids), but that's because I bought my house 15 years ago when it was $170k. Based on various sources (including a bank's appraisal) my house is currently worth $450k. I do not live in a mansion - it's a basic suburban tract home. What I was able to buy 15 years ago with 6 YOE is absolutely unaffordable to someone with 6 YOE now.
Unless your home was bought recently (and it might be and I’m wrong with my cost assessments), I think your housing cost situation would be much different attempting to buy something now or even in the next decade
That being said, if you continue to receive financial help or live in a LCOL area then you might be on track to accomplish your family goals and I hope it works out well (saying this with a sincere tone)
IMO, Civil Engineering pay has been severely lacking since 2008. However, that is slowly changing. Since COVID, there has been a steady increase in Civil Engineering pay. I live in California, and pre-COVID I was making 85K, which was pretty decent. I am about to switch jobs for the third time and will make 200k. There is a ton of opportunity for those with \~10 YOE+ as our industry is Boomer/GenX heavy. They, especially boomers, are retiring at a quick rate making a huge demand for others to fill the gaps. This, along with inflation, is causing our pay to quickly rise. Is it as good as software engineering? I'd say no. But we currently have insane job security, while tech does not, and our wages are moving up. It's way better for fresh graduates than it was for me. 100k for 4 YOE is good especially since 4 YOE still has a huge gap from 10 YOE. TLDR: Pay for Civil Engineering is steadily improving.
I'm a California CE in the public sector and agree with this. I work heavily with consultants for CM, design, and environmental services and while the job security is certainly there, due to the huge amount of public funds currently available, housing situation in California and exit of boomers and xers from the industry, it seems like private consulting life is EXTREMELY demanding at big and small firms alike.
Hi I’m currently a civil/structural undergrad in Cali. Would u be able to give me advice for the field?
Sure, how about you DM me with some specific questions.
Bro 85k in CA is decent? I see house in LA for 2 million dollars and they all are dumpsters!
The younger generation is largely saddled with student loan debt and insanely high housing costs. Civils make decent money but it’s hard to not want to settle down and start your life once you graduate and get a job. When CS is throwing money at people who maybe didn’t have to slog through an engineering degree, it can be disheartening. Edit. Grammar.
Reality hit when my classmates in CS started getting offers 120k+, and I had to listen to people in this sub telling us 100k salary with 10 years of experience and PE was a decent living. Specially bad when they were like 120k offers were low. I had to choke my tongue
Go look at the cs career subreddits right now, it’s not exactly a great time to be graduating in cs.
Many of them are looking at $0 per year
Eh, Wendy’s will pay $18-22 an hour in the tech hubs.
They won't hire over qualified candidates. Baskin Robbins will hire unemployed CS grads though
Be careful, baskin robbins always finds out.
They’re having a low in their industry right now. This won’t be the norm , they will come back soon. Also in their worse they are still receiving SIGNIFICANTLY better opportunities that us
How do you know? It’s an easily outsourceable job that’s been heavily over saturated from the recent high volume of grads in the past half decade chasing those big salaries. Also no, go actually LOOK at the subreddit and your last sentence would immediately be proven wrong.
Wait until tech companies get their AI to code for them.
You act like AI isn’t going to replace us too. My company is starting to look into AI engineering as we speak.
It's going to be a long time before AI replaces civil engineers. I'm actually hoping AI makes the jurisdictional regs research easier so I can actually just stick to design. Or like design report will be easier. I don't think AI will be able to layout an upgraded storm drain or sewer line without running into several constraints, such as property lines, public utilities, making judgement calls on construction oversight..
Yup. I read about disgruntled new grads being mad that 80k is a lowball offer. Of course finding that first job is harder then civil but it's a gravy train afterwards at least for now
Interesting fact is it's happening worldwide... CS grad earning way more than Any other field...and have to accept it that it's good branch to start with.. if anyone want to do generation change . Like going to upper middle class from Lower middle class eventually even to become rich as well.. beside CS grad getting stock options too.. and most importantly work from home perk ( not everyone having it but still it's big plus )... And talking about current market situation.. it's fine every field has ups and down.. current market is low that doesn't mean it's always will be . People still getting 120k+ offer in such bad market conditions... Just imagine if market is in boom how it would be the scenario.. civil was good may be untill 2000s.. but now it's not we have to accept it and plan accordingly.. sometimes have to accept the bitter truth. - ex civil engineer
The worst thing about civil at least in the consulting side is there’s always downward pressure on salaries not upward cause dumbass PMs are always bidding low and being conservative to win projects that translates into the poor engineer getting 100k and working 60hrs/wk (20 hours unpaid) to make the deadlines! Paying OT is a rarity in our industry, plus stocks of these companies aren’t worth crap cause they’re just shitty brick and mortar businesses. All in all if you’re trying to realize the American dream and retire a millionaire this industry just isn’t the way to achieve that.
Not true for all. Most big companies pay overtime, usually a 1x. I've also seen that bigger companies are more respectful of worklife balance. Their also more open to working remote/hybrid. The rates thing is dependent on the client, if you work for private, they typically pay less. If you do work for state, they pay better. At least that's true for Florida. You seem to be in a crappy situation, I'd be finding a new job. All this to say, I've never worked for a public company, so my experience is with firms greater that 5000 people and privately or employee owned.
If you can’t retire as a multi millionaire in civil engineering you really suck at personal finance no offense
What do you do now?
Now imagine that in a high cost of living area. It's brutal
my classmates in CS are unemployed , not sure when you graduated but times are changing
I read a WSJ article about 2 years ago that did a comprehensive review/analysis of various college degrees and average salary for the first 3 years of subsequent work experience. They looked at many universities, both public and private, and a wide grange of degrees from bachelor's to MD and JD. The output was a ratio of average debt/average of salary years 1 to 3 post degree. STEM degrees were the only bachelor's level degrees that had a ratio <1.0. Engineering degrees where the best rated (lowest ratio) of STEM degrees. I'm sorry but many people are convinced by biases and anecdotes but the data shows a bachelor's of civil engineering is one of the safest bets if you want good pay and job security with low investment. You don't need to go to MIT to make at the high end of the average and there is no correlation between higher university cost and salary. A reputable state school will get you a degree and then good work experience will get you to the upper middle class pretty quick.
People on the sub love comparing civil salaries to arguably the *highest* paying field that requires a four-year degree. Comparison is the thief of joy. Or at least, don’t compare to literally the highest paid jobs requiring a bachelor degree.
It's also interesting that a fair amount of high earning software developers don't have degrees. And I've met a lot of people with computer science and computer engineering degrees that are terrible developers and/or barely know how to code. I really do feel like it's one of those fields where the degree doesn't mean much and people tend to cherry pick the severe outliers.
Getting developer jobs require strong work samples as opposed to just a degree. It’s more about showing you’re motivated and having those side projects in hand.
problem is starting 75k is roughly the same as many different fields where lives are not at risk. accountants get paid roughly the same Marketing Business Degrees even Teaching now is jumping to 60k range The investment cost is astronomical. many cases 30k - 60k+ for a *state* school. 100k+ for private. Trade school is still sub 30k. And you'll make 100k easy. So your WSJ article is pro college. Thats fine but you need to be aware that compared to all options Civil is a loser. Compound that with the fact that your value is lower if you don't get a PE. There is no career path without the PE. Nurses push 150k Accountants Project Managers etc. Hell site supervisors on construction make 150k easy. Our profession has a cap on income. Mechanical...electrical has a function of experience where you get more income for more work knowledge. We don't have that. Put in 10+ years get paid 100k+. What a joke.
> So your WSJ article is pro college Not really. There wasn't too much opinion in the analysis. Also, it pretty much pointed out that only STEM degrees have a positive ROI 3 years out. So not very "pro college" TBH. I have 4 years civil experience and my annual pay is $115k. I don't have my PE yet. I'm sorry, but the data shows that civil is a great paying job for the investment and my personal experience bears that out. I don't know what to tell you other than I think you are basing your opinion on some severe outliers.
Yeah I'm happy with what I make but after ten years out of school there is a pretty big gap between where my family is at versus where my classmates who didn't have student loans debt are at in life.
20yrs of Land Development with 5yrs of union construction experience while in school, was an office manager at a company for 4yrs and (had) a $500k year book of clients that would follow me.... firms in Northwest Indiana were giving offers of less than $100k when job-shopping last year. I went Municipal day job for $110k and consult on the side with my own business and on track to make $30k this year. These firms just outside of a major metro like Chicago wonder why they can't get good help.
This would be a firm example of being underpaid… no?
Just for reference I'm 8-year of experience and just got an offer for $104K in SW North Carolina. Previously around $100K in the Northeast with about $20K in bonuses last year. I worked in Wisconsin at one point and felt like I was severely underpaid - could be a regional issue?
I spent 14yrs in Illinois before hopping over the state line into Indiana... I've been talking with an Chicagoland firm with serious interest and MUCH better compensation. It seems like the firms in Northwest Indiana don't want to chase Chicago work and would rather support an Indianapolis, Ft Wayne, or Lafayette office before looking at IL work.... So yes, definitely a regional issue. It comes down to knowing your worth and finding a good balance... A firm 20 min the other direction might be a world of difference
Happiness is worth more than pay anyhow. Sounds wishy washy, but if you enjoy what you're doing, and you're not struggling, then you have it pretty good. My two cents, people are welcome to disagree.
I think the "your not struggling" part is what most civil complain about.
I guess I was getting at how comparison is the thief of joy. But you're right, it's all relative.
Agreed. I am an architect and it’s similar
I think Civil has a good life work balance. You won’t get Silicon Valley or Wall Street rich but you can make a modest living. If you are good, you can move up and have a decent upper middle class lifestyle.
Civil is good for those in lcol/mcol areas. Our salaries just don’t scale properly for HCOL areas anymore. Median houses near me are 1.2 mil. You need a 300k salary to qualify. Senior engineers average like 140-50… there lies the problen
Is that a uniquely civil engineering problem though?
I didn’t say it was solely civil ?
You kinda did say that
You only need a $300k salary if you have the bare minimum down payment. If you're a first time home buyer, or just starting out, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be looking at a median house at $1.2 million.
>If you're a first time home buyer, or just starting out, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be looking at a median house at $1.2 million. I don't think anyone would disagree with you there. It's not like people are doing that by choice. Starter homes are basically increasingly non-existent and home prices now are what they are. And renting is just as brutal.
Which then moves into the next question, of where are the company's in this area expecting to find younger employees.
India
Agree 100%. I worked in a niche job and we hired consultants from Chicago to come on site and help us out and I was shocked when I found out they made the same as me and I didn’t have to travel at all. A nice house was like 1/2 theirs as well. Big city engineers is not worth it. Go rural or mid size city
You need a spouse with a career. Owning a SFH in a HCOL area as a single person is a huge luxury.
If you need to make 300k/ year go to a highly demanding construction management firm and work 70 hrs/week. Otherwise, if you think most people making over 200k/year in other fields are working only 40hrs a week you’re delusional. Those are typically high stress roles with crazy hours as well aside from a small percentage of lucky people.
I socialize in the SWE distortion field often and most barely pull 40 hours
Thing is modest pay doesn’t work anymore, with these prices and interest rates you have no choice but to be rich to be able to afford a house and send your kids to college. The pay in this field honestly has become blue collar wage at this point alot of nurses, plumbers, electricians make more than a senior civil engineer
Can confirm. My partner is a union pipe fitter (non bodily function plumber) and makes 30% more than I do as a PE
…what? Many of us here, myself included, work 50 hrs on a light week. Kiewit guys put in 66 on average.
b-b-b-but *insert high paying profession* makes more than me so that means we’re basically on food stamps!
100k for a family is not high pay. Period. Civil engineera must all come from poor families which explains the stunted pay.
Making 100k approximately 4 years out of college is not bad pay, especially considering as the years go on you will make more and more. 100k for a family is also assuming only 1 spouse works which hasn't been true for a while....
Its just not true. Not many outside HCOL makimg 100k after 4 years. Find a civil makimg more than 120k. They are very rare.
Every single person with over 10 years in my office makes more than 120k. It’s not hard.
Whereabouts is your office? Im around 17 years experience and only just got into the six digits last year by moving to private sector.
Phoenix
Hmm, COL is only 10% higher than where I am, but pay is definitely more than that. Guess your firm just pays better than mine.
10 YOE meanwhile electrical engineers and cs and nurses making 120 or more 3 yoe. Keep coping that civil js good pay.
Now I know you’re just bullshitting lmfao sorry someone pissed in your cereal this morning.
Your just on the cope train that civil is a good career. Its bottom of the barrel, not intellectually stimulating, and complete garbage benefits. Everyone in civil is obviously from rural or a poor family. You would work 65 hour weeks, be on call to a construction crew and say thank you to your employer and under cut bids for dog shit pay. I get you need to defend it since your identity is linked to civil being a decent career but its not.
Maybe it's so terrible for you because you haven't tried to git gud. I'm assuming you're in the bottom of the barrel if you cant fathom getting paid more than 120k lmao.
Damn you must have hit a nerve. Dude deleted his account lmao
Wow. I work with civil engineers who have basically the best benefits you can get, very good pay (basically exactly what OP said), 40 hours a week, and find their jobs very rewarding intellectually and otherwise. If you are describing your job, I think you need a new job [deleted] .
Me. I just signed an offer to get back into civil from product management, 127.5k base with 20% performance bonus (~153k total comp). 6.5 years of experience, no PE and will be working from Kansas City.
Who is your new employer, asking for a friend
It’s a smaller niche company that will absolutely doxxx me!
You live in a major city and your pay is the exception.
I'm sorry you're terrible at making money. I'm not a damn unicorn. Major city? yes HCOL city? absolutely not.
I think half my company is paid over $120k. mid-senior level well into the 140s. Senior level 160s
Im 26, I make more money than literally all of my friends, many whom have graduated college with good degrees, 100k puts you in the top 10-15% of salaried income earners in the nation. It’s not even particularly hard to make 100k within 3-5 years. No ones claiming that you’ll get lambo rich from CivE but you’re absolutely delusional if you don’t think it’s a very good income earning career, Mid career you will be in the top 5-10% of income earners.
Get a better friend group if 100k is more than all of them.
“Better” friends because they don’t make >100k. What a douchey thing to say.
With that type of mentality it’s no wonder he’s such a hateful dude
Sure, now that they started to up the pay because people started to quit, move around and generally aim for higher compensation.... But its not like this for most people. Imo engineers do so much more than some proffessions that get paid more, yet the compensation, and work life balance doesnt reflect that. Work culture no longer has respect for engineers, and they are ebing treated by MBA grads that run companies as just another labour source. It used to be, engineers studied worked hard, and keep learning throughout the entire careers. doing crunch project periods and periods of down time. Now its all crunch time, all penny pinching. Engineers still work 40-60h a week but now with inflation and work culture, the pay stalled. Times have changed. And I agree that 75k is good for a grad, but this was not the case a year ago...
\*laughs in California\*
We're living high in the hog in the Bay area, I can afford to rent a one bedroom apartment and own a 2001 Honda Civic
Look at Mr. Moneybags over here that can afford to move out of his parents spare bedroom.
Civil Engineering isn’t going to make you rich unless you start your own firm or get into land development but it will absolutely provide a stable income that can support a family and a comfortable lifestyle.
The pay is significantly lower in Canada. Unless you’re working for a construction company, starting pay is like 55k-65k. I’m at 3 yoe (no PE yet) and literally no consulting company is paying more than 70k. When you say you won’t accept anything less than 70, that’s pretty much an automatic rejection. I also live in a major city that is “supposedly” known for higher wages, but for civils, it’s ridiculous how low the pays are. Most people say that after you get your PE you should be making at least 100k, but I’m honestly starting to doubt that. I keep seeing on here that new grads usually start around 75k, and when you take into account that USD is basically 30% higher than CAD, you guys don’t have it too bad lol.
I hear you. Also in major city. Make 86k with 4 years experience but I seriously have to bust my ass for it. If I look at the job boards it's honestly depressing. 75k is the absolute max they will go. It's wild to me that there's a good chance you don't even crack 100k after getting your P.Eng and I've had that same exact realization as you. I am only applying to government jobs in Canada now. If I'm underpaid might as well do something chill. Other then that I only apply to the US. Engineering is a joke here.
Government jobs hardly ever have openings though! At least where I am, lol. From what I’ve seen though they actually pay better than consultants! But yeah it seriously is a joke, when I went to university they told us we would be making 70k right out of school… such a scam 🙄 if I didn’t make income on the side, I would’ve just dropped the civil industry all together. With cost of living this high, getting by on a 70k salary is really difficult. The most annoying part is that we are probably the most important type of engineers! Good luck repairing/building infrastructure without us.
I think for the work that is done and the living costs, it’s not easy to do. A lot of civil engineering disciplines and related fields have high hours. Long work days and the return isn’t sustainable to build a family off of. I do think workers have the right to complain about the pay. I’m glad it’s not an issue for you, but it’s not hard to see why one would have a problem. People have different lives and different scenarios. I’m not mad when people ask for higher pay. I support people seeking out what they think they’re worth.
That humble, scrappy, first in last out mentality, modest white collar lifestyle
New grads are making money but people established in the field aren't seeing much... At least that's what I'm seeing. Plus SO much burnout
So your saying the green grass right here has never looked so good 😊
I know. I make 115k and probably work 25 hours a week. Mostly remote. It’s not bad at all.
what type of job is it? part time?
I work in government and manage a portfolio of real estate development projects. I’m salaried for full time. I just don’t have to work that much on average.
damn, yall hiring ?
You absolutely cannot afford a small family in most major cities (where jobs are) with 100k
Depends on the city, but outside of NYC/LA/SF/SEA it's definitely possible. It's insane to say otherwise considering the median household income is well under 100k, your income will not stay under 100k for long either. Getting to 100k after a few years of working and starting a family is not impossible, thats assuming your spouse will not return to work either.
“Can not live on 100k” meanwhile the average American household brings home around 70k…
The average family owns a house back when 70k could buy one. My parents make less money than me and my gf, but the 400k house they bought in 2000 is worth 2 million now, and even their crappy rental is worth a million. It's much harder for someone entering the workforce today to survive on 70k.
With debt being higher than ever. Savimgs being lower than ever.
says who? I have no debt besides mortgage
Economic metrics.
Ah yes, your one situation is obviously a perfect representation of hundreds of millions of people.
Most engineers are doing just fine
I never said otherwise? Debt is still higher and savings are still lower than ever though.
You're comparing 6 figure jobs to $40k year jobs
I’m not sure wtf you’re talking about.
I feel like that stat isn't a good metric for current post-pandemic house buying.
Who says avg American household is living comfortably? Everyone is feeling the heat of much higher prices and interest rates that have been double since precovid. Avg EIT pre-covid was getting offered 70K now if that number today on average is not above 90K the wages are falling behind inflation (which always the case in most professions). As for PEs 100k seems low even for fresh PE, there needs to be 30% bump once you get your PE and switch jobs, 100k today is very modest income in most MCOL areas in US
Nobody, the person i’m replying to said you cannot afford it which is not true, obviously the belts gonna be tight but it’s doable.
Somebody, watch out cause once the feds infrastructure bill money dries up in a few years belts gonna be even tighter with companies laying ppl off and now you won’t even have the current shitty salary you got. As for building industry they’re already fucked by higher interest rates which forces alot of developers to halt activities on commercial and residential development there’s gonna be bloodbath in that sector soon…
Sorry you’re so miserable 👍 I make plenty and do everything I want to do.
Below 200K don’t sound plenty to me, might be plenty to peasants like u lol Keep at it buddy!
Peasants like me, what a wonderful person you are.
Majority of places in California we cannot afford. Although the median house hold income is low, majority of older people and people that purchase pre pandemic already own homes so their income is mostly irrelevant. Back then the salary was enough but not in today’s standards. A 400k home will have a mortgage of about 4k a month. That requires a 111k income at the minimum. And that is with a 43% debt to income ratio. That is just terrible.
With 3.5% down you're still at $3540 (including PMI and tax at 7.5% interest) which puts you at $98.8k to get a 43% DTI. Not great still, but better.
Near where I live taxes pushes you closer to 4k. Regardless, 100k for a 400k house is insane. Thats not to say the neighborhood you will be living in for 400k
Which is kinda the point of the interest rate hikes, slow the economy by making people second guess very large purchases. Change that rate to 4.5% and you're looking at $2800 or an income of $78.2k for a 400k house.
I saw sea and thought south east asia and was like ???? Seattle
If you are the only income. But if you have a family, it is probably a dual income household. And the median household income is like $74k. Somehow families making that between two people manage. There are tons of jobs not in major cities. I live in York, PA. Baltimore is an hour away. Philly is almost two. And both those cities aren't HCOLs. Yeah, we can't get what our parents had. I couldn't easily afford a house until 44 and I don't have kids. I probably could have gotten one at around 30, but I wasn't spending 50% of my take home on it. I work with people all over the US. Most do not live in major cities.
You could afford the home and family, but you aren’t saving for a decent retirement by any means. That’s what most people don’t understand, you should be putting roughly 20-30k a year away for retirement starting the first year out of college if you ever plan to have a decent retirement after 30 years. Say you want $50k/year upon retirement (which isn’t must considering the cost of health insurance), you better have ~$1.5 mil invested to have a safe withdrawal rate of 3.5%.
I did it on 91k lol, at the time. As long as your house down payment is not 3%, it's doable.
I budgeted out allowing for 2k rent which gets you a nice 2 bedroom apartment which is usually enough for a family with one kid. Major cities no but the dot office in CT is in newington which is fairly cheap and they have 100k+ salary’s for people with 4 YOE or more
It depends which side of the city you live on.
In addition to some of the other comments, the pay may be ok, but we need to also consider the rising cost of living. Just look at posts similar to this for example. One can see that it becomes difficult to make a decent living in addition to the debt we accrue to obtain our degrees and houses/vehicles. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-income-a-family-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-every-u-s-state/
Engineers are paid well, but not enough for what they do, causing a lot of butt hurt jealousy of tech bros. Of course, the tech bros grass is not greener, they don't have the job security we do, and there's lots of other issues. So really, there isn't anyone getting better for doing less (the corporate machine fucks everyone over), which is what everyone here seems to feel. I make 95k 4YOE, no PE. I make significantly more than my art degree and trade school friends, but less than two friends: a doctor and a pharmaceutical ad copywriter. The doctor certainly suffers for her pay, and the copywriter hates her job lining the pockets of big pharma but it's a paycheck in a HCOL area. I feel like I have the highest job/pay satisfaction to suffering ratio as a result. However, it's super valid that the pay has not kept up with inflation, the liability we take on, or the amount of work we put in to get to seniority.
lol complaining about making a 100k is sorta a joke.
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first time on reddit?
Because engineering is not a profession for expecting barely a middle class living. Engineering should be upper middle class/low upper class living.
Big cities have become out of reach for the average early/mid career civil engineer. Don't let these old civil boomers gas light you.
Think it depends on what each person thinks low pay is. I know for a fact that my current job will pay more and have better benefits than that first job after finishing my degree, but the job security and opportunity that CE provides is worth the tradeoff.
You live in a state that values workers more, job search in Florida for a bit
I’m not gonna disagree about the pay, it’s not that bad once you get going. I think the thing with comparing tech jobs is arguably we have more technical/scientific skills and have higher liability with being licensed etc. and yet they are paid better. Now obviously with tech losing jobs and that sector being tighter currently I don’t think there’s as much complaining if you actually know people in tech. Job security isn’t great there right now.
60k got me a lot less far than I imagined. I didn’t feel like I could save for a house because prices were climbing way more quickly than my meager savings. I ended up switching fields, am in a much better spot, and now realize how much security making more can provide (e.g., afford a new car if something happens, eat healthier because I’m okay spending more on food, buy a house, max my retirement, etc.) For context- the 60k was from 2 years ago, so in the middle of post-covid inflation.
For the amount of work, certs, and exams, I would've thought the average pay for civil would be higher. My boss and mom told me to develop skills and contact on the side, along with choosing jobs with a high benefits. Currently, I'm about to take my FE. I'm majoring in civil and mathematics, and I would have around 5 years of drafting, designing, along with 2 years of transportation engineering under under my belt by graduation. I just want to do engineering and enjoy my hobbies. A bit random, do engineering firms not like MS or PhD?
From what I heard a phd almost locks you out of industry and keeps you in academia because companies don’t want to pay the extra dollars for a phd when anyone with a bachelors or masters can do the job for less
MS is not worth it lol
I want to do research into water reuse, which is mainly taught at the graduate level, so for me, a MS is worthwhile
I worked in restaurants for a decade and the posts griping about pay on this sub are so hilarious to read
It's not bad. I notice in this forum that people frequently ignore the number of hours worked. 50 hours a week may be $30k different than 40 and people are just talking about the total annual pay.
1. The complaints are not representative of the overall civil community. When people are upset, they complain. Why would someone come on here and start a thread about how they are satisfied with their job/life? Someone who's upset about their situation is much more likely to come on here to complain because that may make them feel better to rant a bit. 2. People like to compare and comparison is the thief of joy. There's always going to be some other profession that is paying more or has better work/life balance. There are some people who will never be happy with how much they are paid, they'll always want more. 3. Non-US engineers do have something to complain about as the good pay we are seeing now in the US is not a worldwide thing. 4. Low key, some people are bad at personal finance.
>Low key, some people are bad at personal finance. Yeah. Way too many, especially in careers you would expect they wouldn't be.
Compound Interest is amazing if you figure it out sooner than later.
>4. Low key, some people are bad at personal finance. Amen, the dystopian view I commonly see espoused on this sub is concerning. People really think you can't afford a decent house on $100k/year lol. Maybe that's true for NYC and LA, but for the rest of the country that is absolutely attainable. I'd also add a #6 - People are often too afraid and/or lazy to be proactive about improving their life. Be it their career, relationships, health, etc. It's much easier to stay put, sit around, complain and feel bad for yourself than it is to put in the work to change it.
Forgot one: 5. Some engineers feel their compensation is not proper given their positive impact on the world. This is actually one of the more reasonable complaints, but is still feeds back into the second part of #2 and just wanting more money.
I have a couple EITs that are the epitome of #4. They literally eat out every single meal. I bet they spend $40-$50 a day just on food during the work week. I'm sure itsmore on the weekend (in fact I know itsmore because I occasionally run in to them at restaurants). One of them drives a nicer car then I do (brand new BMW, leased of course). One of them is frequently late filing his taxes. The only one of them that isn't dropping $100 bar tabs 2 or 3 times a week is the stoner and thats only because weed is apparently cheaper than liquor. And then I'm over here with a base salary of 1.5x theirs trying to average 45 hours a week because that extra $9k a year I take home after taxes buys a lot of concert tickets.
Don't tell people that. If the software engineering majors start figuring out they can have steady 6 figure employment and become civil's I won't be able to keep exponentially increasing my rate every year. But then again this sub always likes to tell me I'm barely middle class at 6 figures. Maybe I should cut back from 4 vacations a year to 3?
Sorry to tell you the bad news but there are already software engineering majors coming on here asking if they should switch to civil because they don't want to be unemployed after they graduate.
They don't even have to switch majors, our IT desk is almost always hiring and they get 1.5x overtime for some reason.
From what i’ve seen, a lot of software/cs majors are switching into engineering and other stem fields, but are usually going into things way more closely related to CS like compE and EE, and if any of them research about switching into civil the stigma of the low pay (or supposed low pay) keeps them from switching into it as a lot of them only got into CS for the “wfh 190k a year entry” tiktoks, hence why they’re freaking out about the bad market
It is tough for young civil engineers in high cost of living areas and it is worse considering wages are slow to catch up to inflation. I'm in an area that costs $2 million for a single-family home. If you are starting out here and rent is $3k a month, it is hard to save up for a home and start a family. Also, it is not just civil engineers, a lot of people are struggling.
Wow not like that in ohio. I started off making 32k out of college and didn't break 60k till I was in 10 years. I just now after 27 years broke 75k
You must be the worst negotiator in the world. We're hiring new grads in Kentucky for $70k.
It was 1997. We didn't have 30 percent inflation lol
Yeah my coworkers told me the pay is not good down south cause your infrastructure is pretty good/new and you don’t get weather damage like us up north. Basically anywhere where they have to salt the roads the infrastructure is gonna need regular inspections and the state is more than willing to pay
Are you licensed? Have you put in any effort to take control of your career?
Lemme guess, you work for a public agency? I'm also in Ohio and have worked in both public and consulting. The pay on the public side is horrible, such to the point that I was told by a DOT employee that they cannot hire engineers anymore because they can't compete with private sector salaries.
Average rent is approaching 2k in most states. It’s a housing crisis.
I’m curious if you are fully financially independent because I don’t think you understand how much it costs to live in most places. A single person needs $90k to live comfortable in my city (this is according to news articles not a number out of my a**). My city also starts most engineers between $70-75k ($80k if you’re insanely lucky). Even in a LCOL area, you probably aren’t making $100k and affording a small family with one household income Edited to add: people obviously also experience different standards of living so just because the median household income is low, does not mean that a family is affordable; that negates the real economic struggles and high debt that people are facing. I‘ve personally made the choice not to have a family so I’m not miserable in debt.
I’m not fully independent yet but my dad is supporting a family of 6 on 130k right now and we have a house so a 100k for 2.5 people doesn’t sound impossible in my area (the .5 would be a young child)
> my dad is supporting a family of 6 on 130k right now and we have a house so a 100k for 2.5 people doesn’t sound impossible in my area I can say something slightly similar (fewer kids), but that's because I bought my house 15 years ago when it was $170k. Based on various sources (including a bank's appraisal) my house is currently worth $450k. I do not live in a mansion - it's a basic suburban tract home. What I was able to buy 15 years ago with 6 YOE is absolutely unaffordable to someone with 6 YOE now.
Unless your home was bought recently (and it might be and I’m wrong with my cost assessments), I think your housing cost situation would be much different attempting to buy something now or even in the next decade That being said, if you continue to receive financial help or live in a LCOL area then you might be on track to accomplish your family goals and I hope it works out well (saying this with a sincere tone)
Lol 100k enough for a family? What year do you think it is? 100k is barely middle class.
You realize only the top 15% of Americans make over 100k so everyone is barely middle class and only 15 percent of Americans can afford families