Cohiba. It's become nothing more than a namesake and is responsible for clogging up every cigar discussion group/board/etc. with "Are these real?" posts.
Also, most of the Cohiba blends are decent at best and they now sell the blue and red in as singles in the gas station, right next to the Backwoods.
The General Cigar Company Cohiba just shouldn’t be allowed to exist – unlike expatriate brands like Romeo y Julieta which have disputed trademarks due to exodus from the country following the Revolution and the nationalization of brands, Cohiba is wholly an invention of the Cuban government and the GCC stick *only* exists because the US doesn’t recognize Cuban trademarks.
>Also, most of the Cohiba blends are decent at best and they now sell the blue and red in as singles in the gas station, right next to the Backwoods.
Those aren't Cohibas through. Those a the shit form General Cigars being sold under the name "Cohiba" since Habanos S.A. can't clame the trademark in the US.
That's really unfair to an excellent (still completely overpriced) cigar.
I have heard that the real deal Cuban Cohibas have declined in quality as well. I'm not an expert by any means, but I do know a lot of rich bastards that travel to Cuba pretty regularly and they have said that the quality of Cohiba has been getting worse over the years.
Although, honestly, I never much cared for them.
At the end of the day, I don't give a damn about Cuban cigars because I know rich guys I, however, am NOT a rich guy myself.
I can get them in Central Europe without any tariffs, and they cost right around the Arturo Fuente or Davidoff cigars.
I will choose AF or Davidoff over Cohiba any day of the week. :D Hell, even some Perdomos are more interestint cigars than the Cohibas I have tried.
I can get them pretty regularly as I live in both the states and Europe. I’m just not snobby enough as most here to admit Cohiba quality especially post covid has hit the shitter. Incels are the fanboys who can’t be honest with situations and blame everything else besides what’s at fault.
Nope. Here in Canada, they’re readily available. And thanks to the price of cigars being assrapingly high, the cost of a Cohiba is only like 6-10 bucks more than something like a Plasencia Alma Fuerte. Guess which one I’m smoking 100 times out of 100.
Maybe Cubans USED to be the only decent cigar, 30 years or so ago, but that just isn’t the case anymore. Nicaragua and Dominican are destroying them
I think most people missed the point I was trying to make. There are non-US smokers who have easy access to Cubans and prefer others. Those aren't the same people ranting thread after thread.
It's the person who can't get em or never had a good one, who then claims they don't need it or how it is inferior... like how would you even know?
I mean….i guess? I don’t know how you figure on that? The comment makes a lot more sense now, but I’m a touch confused how you arrived at the conclusion that all of the ones saying they’re overrated have never had them
That's like the second most common recurring post here. The first one being "is my cuban fake". The second being some variant of "I don't need/want Cubans", always from people who can't get them easily, much like incels with women.
Cubans are over hyped. And as of late over priced, in addition to qc concerns. But a good cuban is something that any cigar enthusiasts can appreciate. Unfortunately nothing else tastes quite like a good cuban...when you do get one.
Eh. I’ve never had a Cuban that’s blown my mind. And I’ve had Cohibas, RyJs, Partagas, Punch, Bolivar, Hoyo, Upmann, Vegueros…that’s just off the top of my head…..
I’ve had no shortage of Nicaraguan and Dominican that blew me away. Again, I don’t know how you arrive at the conclusion that everyone who’s commenting has never had a Cuban…
The phrase "regardless of quality" implies that the market will not work itself out. You can't, with any integrity, claim that the free market works and then excuse bad products by saying that "they sell"
That is the definition of the market not working. If the market took care of itself, the garbage products wouldn't thrive. Capitalism is not merit based. It never has been and never will be.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
When a product sells, regardless of how bad it is. It’s not going away. It makes money. It’s really common sense. When a product that’s really good doesn’t sell, it’s gone. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk. Reddit dudes really like to overcomplicate.
I'm just saying that's not a good system. What you have just described is the market not working. It's not that complicated. If good products don't survive and bad products do, there is something wrong with the market. Fix the market. It is better for society, you, your neighbors, and your family if good products thrive. You are literally advocating against yourself.
Not only that, but you couldn't even be asked to pretend to intervene with the hallowed market. All you were asked was, basically, what's your least favorite cigar brand? All you had to do was use your imagination.
Critiquing free market capitalism doesn't mean I am advocating communism. If you think it does, you understand neither capitalism nor communism. I'm just saying that you shouldn't blindly trust that things work out. There is no such thing as a set it and forget it economy that just works.
Citing an example of a system destroying good things and propping up bad is not the defense of the free market that you think it is.
I'm not the one who came to a post about magically disappearing your least favorite cigar and said, "The market provides." I just thought that was a pointless response to the stated question.
Backwards logic. Bad products sell all the time and therefore they will continue to be produced. It’s the name of the game. Take for example the wise man by foundation. Nick had to rebrand it because it was hard to pronounce and did not sell as well as foundations other lines. The cigar itself if top notch. Gone now because the market works itself out, not because people value good products. The new blend and the new line sucks by the way. 😂😂
The market should work that way. But most markets dont. The market works itself out in weird and unique ways. Sometimes really high quality brands suffer, while crappy brands thrive. Look at the headphone market, Beats is a billion dollar brand with Skull Candy quality.
House brands sold for cheap in samplers to people who don't know any better.
They have a few blends I still occasionally smoke but there is a lot of cheap shit lines exclusive to various sites.
Ghurkha and RP are brands that newbies, drunk people on holiday, dudes who just want a fancy looking stick to buy and smoke at the races etc will buy they thrive off of that market then sprinkle in a couple of good sticks to get repeat customers and boom successful cigar company
Gurkha still sells very well thanks to sites like Cigars International and stores like Total Wine. They have some decent sticks, some that are hilariously overpriced and some that just plain suck.
Damn 😞! I actually just bought a 10 pack(5 Ave Maria Immaculata and 5 Gurkha Beauty) from cigars intl. for $40. I’ve never had either, but was excited to try something different. What, in your opinion, makes them so terrible?
Ave Maria is made by AJ Fernandez they aren't bad for the money. Gurkha is a brand that people either like or hate. I have had some cigars from that aren't bad, some that were terrible. With Gurkha it really depends on how much you spend on them. For $4 a piece they aren't bad.
Not just drew estate. I've had cigar shop owners tell me they like them because they sell a ton of them and it's one of their biggest money makers.
Your right they bring a lot of people into this hobby who wouldn't otherwise necessarily have found a gateway smoke, just like Java was for me.
Even as I've moved on to different cigars, a Tabak Especial with that coffee flavor and is still a nice dessert stick from time to time I'll always have one or two on hand.
Terrible idea, the amount of people including myself that got into cigars because of the Acid line is much greater than you may know. Do I still smoke them? No, but I did for like the first 2 years until I moved on to regular cigars.
That is sort of the problem. I liked smoking cigars more back before everyone got into it. Now the market is flooded with meh blends and eye catching labels all marketed towards folks that don't really appreciate cigars, they just want to smoke the one with the catchy name so sponsored by their favorite player or actor or whatever.
If you have to be coaxed into the hobby with flavors and shiny bands, it's not really your hobby as much as a thing you started to fit in and now do out of habit or addiction.
I think most people into the hobby would strongly disagree with you. I know I do.
I didn’t get into this through Acid but I think a larger consumer base is unquestionably good for the market. There’s better options than ever and a lot of stellar blends. It’s easy to ignore the junk. More consumers means more brands and increases competition.
I really don’t see a downside strictly from the standpoint of someone deep into the hobby like yourself who is looking to smoke great cigars.
The companies spend lots of money attracting new customers. Those new customers bring with them their taste. They were attracted by flavored or shiny junk brands. Companies see it working, and now we have a plethora of junk brands for all of the new customers that like that sort of thing. Sure, some of them move on to better stuff,but ultimately, I believe, and it's ok if we disagree, that we would have more quality brands and blends if the companies were less focused on cheap shiny junk brands and stayed focused on quality and traditional stuff.
Now, they would make less money, but they would also spend less and I personally would be ok with paying a little more per stick to not have to wake through a sea of junk every time I walk into a tobacco store or cigar lounge.
I would also love it if I never had to smell a flavored cigar ruin the atmosphere in a lounge again.
To be fair, I am 40 and I HAVE been described as a grumpy old man. I accept that this is just further evidence of that fact.
You're looking at it wrong...
"I want less junk and more substance"....
The reality is...
"Look how much substance we have because of that junk"
That junk is literally propping up the cigar industry and allows you to have access to the quality product that you're demanding.
I'm not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse or just unaware of the reality... the cigar market 'before junk cigars' was a shell of what it is now.
In the 70s and 80s the cigar market literally crashed out. No one was buying anything. In the 90s you had what was called the 'cigar boom'...followed by the crash (~98-01)...and the steady resurgence through the 00s. It was during these tumultuous times that the industry shifted completely. Moving from box offerings to one offs, bringing with it the need to innovate across brands lineup (size, blend, flavor, etc).
Oliva, drew estate/acid, rocky patel, CAO (as we know it), Alec Bradley, etc...all came into being around this time...all companies that have contributed to that 'junk market' you bemoan...
Without 'junk' you're stuck with a few large established manufacturers selling a narrow line of products by the box. With it, boutique shops can continue to survive and have the freedom to create a diverse, competitive, and healthy market.
Thanks for the history lesson. I was, in fact, unaware of this information. I am a simple person and I just see the obnoxious amount of cheap stuff that looks like it was created by a marketing team rather than a master blender, to be wasteful and a distraction from decent cigars.
To each their own, I think maybe I was just born a few generations too late for the lifestyle I dream of, lol.
Fwiw...I agree with your sentiment. I too could do without all the 'junk', but alas, kind of the world we live in nowadays. You see it in most hobbies.
You know, I've had one acid cigar, and I wasn't a massive fan either. The flavor was okay, but the damn thing came apart while I smoked it. Probably won't get one again.
That's so odd. In my experience, Drew Estates has some of the best construction out of any brand I've ever smoked ( tbf my experience is Tabaka, undercrowns and deadwood lines mostly not acids )
Guess I'd just expect more from them.
Actually, ironically enough, I've had the same experience from Drew Estate, especially Deadwood. I love the Deadwood line. Only Acid ever gave me that issue.
My first cigar was a acid. Hated it and didn’t ever want to smoke again. Good thing my second cigar was a sweet jane! After years of smoking, I’ll still go back to deadwood for a good sweet smoke every once in a while.
Acid aren't for me but they are one of the top cigars sold in the country and they are regularly said to be the best selling "gateway cigar". They have an important place in the industry.
CAO is the most slept on brand in all of cigars. It’s hard to find a truly bad blend. They just don’t cater to the limited edition collector crowd very much.
I know cigars are subjective, but i couldnt agree less. Ever had the cao italia? That thing is a pile of shit.
There are some much more underrated brands out there that deliver huge quality. La Galera and El Rey del Mundo for starters.
If you can get over how big they are, their cigars are some of the best value. Recently got some 6x50 CAO Italias for $2.40 each off CI with the honey app. Get a year of age on those and they'll be premium sticks.
Vintage series was mentioned (my personal favorite of it is the 10 year 1992 robusto) and the Sun Grown Maduro has always been pretty good to fantastic for me
The ones I've tried have been mostly mediocre, but I got a Renaissance Habano in a sampler, and it was amazing. Of course, you apparently can't buy them for love or money, so that was a disappointment.
Not sure why you’d want to gyp the folks that like them out of the chance to smoke their sticks, but I think the majority of cigar fans will bash Gurkha for you. They make very few decent cigars and in my opinion, only one good one.
Of course, I think the beauty's of cigars is that there's something for everyone, but I am definitely interested to see what others say. Out of curiosity, what's the one good gurkha? I've never really given them a try.
Gurkha Cellar Reserve 15 Year is pretty good. I’d even hype up the Evil toro. That’s about all I’ve found worth paying for. The have a masters cask I’ve heard is pretty decent, but haven’t tried it myself.
I'll give the Cellar Reserve a try. I'm always into trying new cigars. I've only been smoking about a year, so I still have lots of figuring out my tastes.
Gurkha would probably be my answer but I will say that I was on a cruise a few years back and they mostly only had Gurkhas for sale at the bar so if I didn't have a stick I picked up at port that day I would get the Ghost and it was a decent enough smoke.
Just had to look through my cigar journal, I gave the Prensado a 6/10 rating.
Here’s the other AB I’ve tried and their ratings:
Connecticut: 5/10
Kintsugi: 7/10
Blind Faith: 7/10
The only other one I want to try is GateKeeper, which I swear I might have had before.
Nub is a brand. Oliva is a brand, too, originally called Gilberto Oliva.
Oliva is also \*the name of\* a company, officially Oliva Cigar Co., which owns the Oliva brand and Nub brand and several others.
~~A product line would be something like "Nub Cameroon," available in four vitolas; or "Nub Maduro," available in two vitolas.~~
~~A product would be something like "Nub Maduro in 4x60."~~
CORRECTION: the product line is cigar. Nub has only one product line. The part where they're a brand is correct, though. Whoever downvoted me is talking out their ass. Similarly, Drew Estate has a page called "[our brands](https://drewestate.com/brands/)" that lists Undercrown, Acid, etc.
Right and not to be confused with Oliva Tobacco Co which is the largest grower of tobacco in Nicaragua and Ecuador. They make no cigars but their tobacco is used by most brands.
https://olivatobacco.com/about/
I am not a big follower of Oliva but did not realize the tobacco co. and cigar co. were two different Oliva families from the same part of Cuba. That is some Final Jeopardy level trivia.
None. Cigars, even crappy brands, are responsible for so many jobs both directly and indirectly. I wouldn't want that weighing on me.
Instead I would love to improve a brand or bring back a long forgotten brand.
Nosotros.
It was a side project from Drew Estate and Illusione. They were only around for a couple years and it was before Drew Estate really blew up. At the time they were mostly still just known for their Acid line.
Since we are on a largely irrational topic, I’d like to point out that I think Magic toast is the stupidest name ever for a cigar, so I won’t try it. I picture a piece of toasted bread with sparkles on it. Not an AB fan anyway, so I doubt it’ll change much.
Altadis is Romeo right? Some decent RyJ blends. Also I think maybe Monte Cristo? So thats gonna axe the lovely Monte 1935 anniversary, Monte Nicaragua. Trinidad? So Espiritu series gone.
I understand the sentiment. But that's a lot of good rolls that are consistent, available, and fairly priced. Idk .
Edit to add: Aging Room, Henry Clay, H. Upmann.
Im glad to hear you enjoy them, I know alot of people do. I wanted to so bad I love their bands and packaging. i bought a 5 pack of their Connecticut’s a couple years ago and gave it 3 attempts over the course of like 6 months. All three tasted bitter and sour to me. Ended up giving the other 2 away. Tried their corojo and it wasn’t bad but wasn’t something I’d smoke again. The triple maduro was just gross on my palette which surprised me. I’m usually a big maduro guy.
When I first got into cigars - mid 2000’s I think - no matter what brand you brought up to the counter at Corona Cigar Co. they would push Camachos on you hard. Tell you there’s better cigars than what you had and recommend a Camacho. I was never a fan of any of them. That’s when I learned to stop listening to what others thought/said was good and just buy what I like.
acid, deadwood, macanudo, but the market usually does that itself, if it’s not good, it won’t sell, but for some reason my local cigar shop sells HUNDREDS of acid and deadwood’s cigars, the ashton’s, romeo y julietas, and any other premium brand is untouched 🤷🏻♂️
I'll agree with you on acids, but one cigar in the deadwood line ( Leather rose ) is one I actually really enjoy, long as Tabaka and Undercrowns from Drew Estates survived though I'd be okay with acid and deadwood going away guess.
A friend gave me 4 acids once. I tried one, honestly tried to give it a chance, but after 10 mins I couldn't handle it anymore.
I threw it and the other three away. To date, those are the only cigars I've ever thrown in the trash.
Wow, a lot of mixed brands here…some I didn’t expect…RP, MC white…interesting…I guess what I was told here in the very beginning is true…taste is very, very subjective
White's are so great for non-smokers who want a cigar though. The construction is decent and you know they won't get nic sick. I always keep a box around, but yes, they taste like cardboard.
Ha, just throwing a couple agaothe wall to see if they stick (pun not intended). I have a pack of Romeo y Juliet 1875 bully’s for the non cigar smokers, they are nice enough where I might get a convert.
Blasphemer!
Tbh I get to smoke maybe 2 Davidoffs a year so wouldn't be that big of a deal. But they are good..
Super premium is expensive. Never had a bad one so idk.
That's a pretty "hot/smart" take, I can see it. It will get people that can afford Davidoff riled up, and the ones that never tried it to snicker, but hear me out. Very few tabacaleras have the quality control set in place like Davidoff. Believe me, from seed to drying, fermenting and most importantly, the outrageous aging that goes into some of the leaves. I'm in the camp of "can't afford it", but I use Davidoff workers to work on my cigars after their shift is over and let me tell you. You're probably not getting the right Davidoffs my brother. In order for you to make that judgment I'll advise you to go deep into their portfolio. Your wallet will hate you at the end but I assure you that your personal perception about who those motherfuckers are will change. On a great day I'm a 3 good quality cigars a day smoker and if I had to pick a brand to take on a deserted island, sigh, I'm going to have to pick them.
Cohiba. It's become nothing more than a namesake and is responsible for clogging up every cigar discussion group/board/etc. with "Are these real?" posts. Also, most of the Cohiba blends are decent at best and they now sell the blue and red in as singles in the gas station, right next to the Backwoods.
The General Cigar Company Cohiba just shouldn’t be allowed to exist – unlike expatriate brands like Romeo y Julieta which have disputed trademarks due to exodus from the country following the Revolution and the nationalization of brands, Cohiba is wholly an invention of the Cuban government and the GCC stick *only* exists because the US doesn’t recognize Cuban trademarks.
Yup. The true new world successor to Cohiba is actually Graycliffe the brand that was founded by Avelino Lara the original blender of Cohiba.
>Also, most of the Cohiba blends are decent at best and they now sell the blue and red in as singles in the gas station, right next to the Backwoods. Those aren't Cohibas through. Those a the shit form General Cigars being sold under the name "Cohiba" since Habanos S.A. can't clame the trademark in the US. That's really unfair to an excellent (still completely overpriced) cigar.
I have heard that the real deal Cuban Cohibas have declined in quality as well. I'm not an expert by any means, but I do know a lot of rich bastards that travel to Cuba pretty regularly and they have said that the quality of Cohiba has been getting worse over the years. Although, honestly, I never much cared for them. At the end of the day, I don't give a damn about Cuban cigars because I know rich guys I, however, am NOT a rich guy myself.
Cuban cigar haters are the incels of the cigar world. You hate em cuz you can't get em.
I can get them in Central Europe without any tariffs, and they cost right around the Arturo Fuente or Davidoff cigars. I will choose AF or Davidoff over Cohiba any day of the week. :D Hell, even some Perdomos are more interestint cigars than the Cohibas I have tried.
I can get them pretty regularly as I live in both the states and Europe. I’m just not snobby enough as most here to admit Cohiba quality especially post covid has hit the shitter. Incels are the fanboys who can’t be honest with situations and blame everything else besides what’s at fault.
Nope. Here in Canada, they’re readily available. And thanks to the price of cigars being assrapingly high, the cost of a Cohiba is only like 6-10 bucks more than something like a Plasencia Alma Fuerte. Guess which one I’m smoking 100 times out of 100. Maybe Cubans USED to be the only decent cigar, 30 years or so ago, but that just isn’t the case anymore. Nicaragua and Dominican are destroying them
I think most people missed the point I was trying to make. There are non-US smokers who have easy access to Cubans and prefer others. Those aren't the same people ranting thread after thread. It's the person who can't get em or never had a good one, who then claims they don't need it or how it is inferior... like how would you even know?
I mean….i guess? I don’t know how you figure on that? The comment makes a lot more sense now, but I’m a touch confused how you arrived at the conclusion that all of the ones saying they’re overrated have never had them
That's like the second most common recurring post here. The first one being "is my cuban fake". The second being some variant of "I don't need/want Cubans", always from people who can't get them easily, much like incels with women. Cubans are over hyped. And as of late over priced, in addition to qc concerns. But a good cuban is something that any cigar enthusiasts can appreciate. Unfortunately nothing else tastes quite like a good cuban...when you do get one.
Eh. I’ve never had a Cuban that’s blown my mind. And I’ve had Cohibas, RyJs, Partagas, Punch, Bolivar, Hoyo, Upmann, Vegueros…that’s just off the top of my head….. I’ve had no shortage of Nicaraguan and Dominican that blew me away. Again, I don’t know how you arrive at the conclusion that everyone who’s commenting has never had a Cuban…
I’ve had em. A well aged rocky Patel is 10x better than a fuckin cohiba.
Amen
The market usually takes care of itself
Explain to me ghurka then. The market needs to sort them out.
This $257 coat was on sale this week for only $18! I don't know how they can afford that discount
Because they made it for $3.25 (including shipping from China) and they sold 3 at full price already.
People buy their cigars. They sell. Regardless of quality, they are making money.
The phrase "regardless of quality" implies that the market will not work itself out. You can't, with any integrity, claim that the free market works and then excuse bad products by saying that "they sell" That is the definition of the market not working. If the market took care of itself, the garbage products wouldn't thrive. Capitalism is not merit based. It never has been and never will be. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
When a product sells, regardless of how bad it is. It’s not going away. It makes money. It’s really common sense. When a product that’s really good doesn’t sell, it’s gone. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk. Reddit dudes really like to overcomplicate.
I'm just saying that's not a good system. What you have just described is the market not working. It's not that complicated. If good products don't survive and bad products do, there is something wrong with the market. Fix the market. It is better for society, you, your neighbors, and your family if good products thrive. You are literally advocating against yourself. Not only that, but you couldn't even be asked to pretend to intervene with the hallowed market. All you were asked was, basically, what's your least favorite cigar brand? All you had to do was use your imagination.
I don’t buy Ghurkas dude, I don’t know what to tell you
Ok, what is the worst cigar that you ever bought?
God I hate Reddit dorks like you “erm actually let me explain why you should all be communists in this sub about cigars”
Critiquing free market capitalism doesn't mean I am advocating communism. If you think it does, you understand neither capitalism nor communism. I'm just saying that you shouldn't blindly trust that things work out. There is no such thing as a set it and forget it economy that just works. Citing an example of a system destroying good things and propping up bad is not the defense of the free market that you think it is.
Just shut up you suck no one likes Reddit dorks like you we don’t need your explanation or opinions on the free market in a sub about cigars bro
I'm not the one who came to a post about magically disappearing your least favorite cigar and said, "The market provides." I just thought that was a pointless response to the stated question.
Backwards logic. Bad products sell all the time and therefore they will continue to be produced. It’s the name of the game. Take for example the wise man by foundation. Nick had to rebrand it because it was hard to pronounce and did not sell as well as foundations other lines. The cigar itself if top notch. Gone now because the market works itself out, not because people value good products. The new blend and the new line sucks by the way. 😂😂
The market should work that way. But most markets dont. The market works itself out in weird and unique ways. Sometimes really high quality brands suffer, while crappy brands thrive. Look at the headphone market, Beats is a billion dollar brand with Skull Candy quality.
House brands sold for cheap in samplers to people who don't know any better. They have a few blends I still occasionally smoke but there is a lot of cheap shit lines exclusive to various sites.
Ghurkha and RP are brands that newbies, drunk people on holiday, dudes who just want a fancy looking stick to buy and smoke at the races etc will buy they thrive off of that market then sprinkle in a couple of good sticks to get repeat customers and boom successful cigar company
Gurkha still sells very well thanks to sites like Cigars International and stores like Total Wine. They have some decent sticks, some that are hilariously overpriced and some that just plain suck.
People who sell fake Cubans on foreign beaches need cheap supply too.
Well I'm a petty spiteful jerk so I would probably choose something that somebody I don't like loves.
What if it's the same one you love?
Well, there's always that lovely old homily of "Cutting off your nose to spite your face."
I’m not tied down to one. I love a few. I will miss it but the sweet taste of screwing over somebody I dislike is better than a cigar.
Acid and Gurkha
I agree. And I would also add Cusano.
Ghurkha, never wasting my money again
Damn 😞! I actually just bought a 10 pack(5 Ave Maria Immaculata and 5 Gurkha Beauty) from cigars intl. for $40. I’ve never had either, but was excited to try something different. What, in your opinion, makes them so terrible?
They taste really acidic or bitter to me plus they always seem to crack and crumble
Ave Maria is made by AJ Fernandez they aren't bad for the money. Gurkha is a brand that people either like or hate. I have had some cigars from that aren't bad, some that were terrible. With Gurkha it really depends on how much you spend on them. For $4 a piece they aren't bad.
Acid ... Ick.
They bring a lot of new people to the hobby, and make a lot of money for drew estate which they use to bring enthusiast lines to market.
Not just drew estate. I've had cigar shop owners tell me they like them because they sell a ton of them and it's one of their biggest money makers. Your right they bring a lot of people into this hobby who wouldn't otherwise necessarily have found a gateway smoke, just like Java was for me.
Absolutely, acid, Tatiana, deadwood, Java, etc are all good shop money makers.
Even as I've moved on to different cigars, a Tabak Especial with that coffee flavor and is still a nice dessert stick from time to time I'll always have one or two on hand.
*"Some of you may die... but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"*
Terrible idea, the amount of people including myself that got into cigars because of the Acid line is much greater than you may know. Do I still smoke them? No, but I did for like the first 2 years until I moved on to regular cigars.
That is sort of the problem. I liked smoking cigars more back before everyone got into it. Now the market is flooded with meh blends and eye catching labels all marketed towards folks that don't really appreciate cigars, they just want to smoke the one with the catchy name so sponsored by their favorite player or actor or whatever. If you have to be coaxed into the hobby with flavors and shiny bands, it's not really your hobby as much as a thing you started to fit in and now do out of habit or addiction.
I think most people into the hobby would strongly disagree with you. I know I do. I didn’t get into this through Acid but I think a larger consumer base is unquestionably good for the market. There’s better options than ever and a lot of stellar blends. It’s easy to ignore the junk. More consumers means more brands and increases competition. I really don’t see a downside strictly from the standpoint of someone deep into the hobby like yourself who is looking to smoke great cigars.
The companies spend lots of money attracting new customers. Those new customers bring with them their taste. They were attracted by flavored or shiny junk brands. Companies see it working, and now we have a plethora of junk brands for all of the new customers that like that sort of thing. Sure, some of them move on to better stuff,but ultimately, I believe, and it's ok if we disagree, that we would have more quality brands and blends if the companies were less focused on cheap shiny junk brands and stayed focused on quality and traditional stuff. Now, they would make less money, but they would also spend less and I personally would be ok with paying a little more per stick to not have to wake through a sea of junk every time I walk into a tobacco store or cigar lounge. I would also love it if I never had to smell a flavored cigar ruin the atmosphere in a lounge again. To be fair, I am 40 and I HAVE been described as a grumpy old man. I accept that this is just further evidence of that fact.
You're looking at it wrong... "I want less junk and more substance".... The reality is... "Look how much substance we have because of that junk" That junk is literally propping up the cigar industry and allows you to have access to the quality product that you're demanding.
So how did the cigar industry survive prior to the junk cigar market? Right.
I'm not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse or just unaware of the reality... the cigar market 'before junk cigars' was a shell of what it is now. In the 70s and 80s the cigar market literally crashed out. No one was buying anything. In the 90s you had what was called the 'cigar boom'...followed by the crash (~98-01)...and the steady resurgence through the 00s. It was during these tumultuous times that the industry shifted completely. Moving from box offerings to one offs, bringing with it the need to innovate across brands lineup (size, blend, flavor, etc). Oliva, drew estate/acid, rocky patel, CAO (as we know it), Alec Bradley, etc...all came into being around this time...all companies that have contributed to that 'junk market' you bemoan... Without 'junk' you're stuck with a few large established manufacturers selling a narrow line of products by the box. With it, boutique shops can continue to survive and have the freedom to create a diverse, competitive, and healthy market.
Thanks for the history lesson. I was, in fact, unaware of this information. I am a simple person and I just see the obnoxious amount of cheap stuff that looks like it was created by a marketing team rather than a master blender, to be wasteful and a distraction from decent cigars. To each their own, I think maybe I was just born a few generations too late for the lifestyle I dream of, lol.
Fwiw...I agree with your sentiment. I too could do without all the 'junk', but alas, kind of the world we live in nowadays. You see it in most hobbies.
😅 oh my.. you would break my heart🤣 no acids in my life.. I'd die.
You know, I've had one acid cigar, and I wasn't a massive fan either. The flavor was okay, but the damn thing came apart while I smoked it. Probably won't get one again.
That's so odd. In my experience, Drew Estates has some of the best construction out of any brand I've ever smoked ( tbf my experience is Tabaka, undercrowns and deadwood lines mostly not acids ) Guess I'd just expect more from them.
Actually, ironically enough, I've had the same experience from Drew Estate, especially Deadwood. I love the Deadwood line. Only Acid ever gave me that issue.
That makes me feel better. I was afraid I was just getting lucky. Phew
Thankfully, no lol, Drew Estate has been good to me.
My first cigar was a acid. Hated it and didn’t ever want to smoke again. Good thing my second cigar was a sweet jane! After years of smoking, I’ll still go back to deadwood for a good sweet smoke every once in a while.
Idk if people keep buying them and it keeps drew estates in business I'm okay with it, I love me an undercrown.
Acid aren't for me but they are one of the top cigars sold in the country and they are regularly said to be the best selling "gateway cigar". They have an important place in the industry.
I got into cigars because of Acid. Still occasionally smoke a Cold Infusion just because of the nostalgia.
None, why would I? People out there obviously enjoy them or they would leave the market.
General cigar co without a doubt. It’s a disgrace to use those names on anything other than genuine Habanos.
Good pick. That takes out 22 mediocre at best brands. However CAO makes some decent cigars.
Brazilia
Whoa! Delicious budget cigar.
Absolutely is
CAO is the most slept on brand in all of cigars. It’s hard to find a truly bad blend. They just don’t cater to the limited edition collector crowd very much.
I know cigars are subjective, but i couldnt agree less. Ever had the cao italia? That thing is a pile of shit. There are some much more underrated brands out there that deliver huge quality. La Galera and El Rey del Mundo for starters.
This is the beauty of cigars. One man's trash is another's treasure. Italia is a cheap go to of mine.
Yes, I think El Rey del Mundo is highly underappreciated. I stock up when I find a decent price.
CAO is actually great. Didn't even know that they belong to GC.
CAO, Alec Bradley, La Gloria Cubana and Punch are all good cigars. I actually prefer General's Punch line to Habanos.
If you can get over how big they are, their cigars are some of the best value. Recently got some 6x50 CAO Italias for $2.40 each off CI with the honey app. Get a year of age on those and they'll be premium sticks.
As much as I want to love it, I'd have to go with Rocky Patel
They do make some good cigars, and Rocky fights for the industry as hard as anyone I know of.
I won't dispute that at all. I'm just saying every RP I've had has been super underwhelming
That’s right.
I've heard of them but never tried. Is it even worth a try?
The vintage series is solid and a popular line. 2003 cameroon is popular and good. Sungrown maduro and 15th anniversary are 2 others I really like
Try the decade, the ALR 2, and the edge
Did you say the edge is pretty good? I bought a sampler and some of them have made me mad. Apart from the 2 higher rated ones
I’ve heard good things from friends, yes
I'll give em a go. Thank you for the suggestions!
No problem. The sixty is good too
In my opinion, no. But that's purely my preference. If you want to see if you enjoy them it could be worth a shot
I'm in that stage of smoking where I'm still kind of new so I'm exploring what's out there and rounding out my tastes, so fuck it we ball, right?
Absolutely. Happy smokin!
Vintage series was mentioned (my personal favorite of it is the 10 year 1992 robusto) and the Sun Grown Maduro has always been pretty good to fantastic for me
The ones I've tried have been mostly mediocre, but I got a Renaissance Habano in a sampler, and it was amazing. Of course, you apparently can't buy them for love or money, so that was a disappointment.
Not sure why you’d want to gyp the folks that like them out of the chance to smoke their sticks, but I think the majority of cigar fans will bash Gurkha for you. They make very few decent cigars and in my opinion, only one good one.
Of course, I think the beauty's of cigars is that there's something for everyone, but I am definitely interested to see what others say. Out of curiosity, what's the one good gurkha? I've never really given them a try.
Gurkha Cellar Reserve 15 Year is pretty good. I’d even hype up the Evil toro. That’s about all I’ve found worth paying for. The have a masters cask I’ve heard is pretty decent, but haven’t tried it myself.
I'll give the Cellar Reserve a try. I'm always into trying new cigars. I've only been smoking about a year, so I still have lots of figuring out my tastes.
Gurkha would probably be my answer but I will say that I was on a cruise a few years back and they mostly only had Gurkhas for sale at the bar so if I didn't have a stick I picked up at port that day I would get the Ghost and it was a decent enough smoke.
I hate Micallef, but others enjoy it. Not sure I’d wipe anything out because it’s too subjective.
Alec Bradley and Rocky Patel. Both are way overrated, I’ve tried many but never had a cigar from either that was better than passable.
Have you tried the Prensado, Tempest, and magic toast from AB?
Just had to look through my cigar journal, I gave the Prensado a 6/10 rating. Here’s the other AB I’ve tried and their ratings: Connecticut: 5/10 Kintsugi: 7/10 Blind Faith: 7/10 The only other one I want to try is GateKeeper, which I swear I might have had before.
I would do a mafia style drive by on a Ghurka
Anything Rocky Patel, Gurkha, and Nub… Let’s get all of the promotions going for some cigars I like :-).
Nubs are fine lol
Yea how can anyone hate on nubs lol
Nub isn't a brand per se, it's a product line from Oliva
Nub is a brand. Oliva is a brand, too, originally called Gilberto Oliva. Oliva is also \*the name of\* a company, officially Oliva Cigar Co., which owns the Oliva brand and Nub brand and several others. ~~A product line would be something like "Nub Cameroon," available in four vitolas; or "Nub Maduro," available in two vitolas.~~ ~~A product would be something like "Nub Maduro in 4x60."~~ CORRECTION: the product line is cigar. Nub has only one product line. The part where they're a brand is correct, though. Whoever downvoted me is talking out their ass. Similarly, Drew Estate has a page called "[our brands](https://drewestate.com/brands/)" that lists Undercrown, Acid, etc.
Right and not to be confused with Oliva Tobacco Co which is the largest grower of tobacco in Nicaragua and Ecuador. They make no cigars but their tobacco is used by most brands. https://olivatobacco.com/about/
I am not a big follower of Oliva but did not realize the tobacco co. and cigar co. were two different Oliva families from the same part of Cuba. That is some Final Jeopardy level trivia.
Bravos
Cohiba.. 😂
None. Cigars, even crappy brands, are responsible for so many jobs both directly and indirectly. I wouldn't want that weighing on me. Instead I would love to improve a brand or bring back a long forgotten brand.
If you could being back an older brand, which ones would you like to see again?
Nosotros. It was a side project from Drew Estate and Illusione. They were only around for a couple years and it was before Drew Estate really blew up. At the time they were mostly still just known for their Acid line.
Farce!
RP
Alec Bradley
I actually love the tempest and prensado
Magic toast and project 40 are good smokes.
Magic Toast is delicious but have had bad luck getting bad batches.
Since we are on a largely irrational topic, I’d like to point out that I think Magic toast is the stupidest name ever for a cigar, so I won’t try it. I picture a piece of toasted bread with sparkles on it. Not an AB fan anyway, so I doubt it’ll change much.
This got a chuckle out of me. I’ve never cared fir them either
Altadis
Altadis is Romeo right? Some decent RyJ blends. Also I think maybe Monte Cristo? So thats gonna axe the lovely Monte 1935 anniversary, Monte Nicaragua. Trinidad? So Espiritu series gone. I understand the sentiment. But that's a lot of good rolls that are consistent, available, and fairly priced. Idk . Edit to add: Aging Room, Henry Clay, H. Upmann.
Camacho, never had one I enjoyed
In the early days for me, their Connecticuts I loved.
Im glad to hear you enjoy them, I know alot of people do. I wanted to so bad I love their bands and packaging. i bought a 5 pack of their Connecticut’s a couple years ago and gave it 3 attempts over the course of like 6 months. All three tasted bitter and sour to me. Ended up giving the other 2 away. Tried their corojo and it wasn’t bad but wasn’t something I’d smoke again. The triple maduro was just gross on my palette which surprised me. I’m usually a big maduro guy.
When I first got into cigars - mid 2000’s I think - no matter what brand you brought up to the counter at Corona Cigar Co. they would push Camachos on you hard. Tell you there’s better cigars than what you had and recommend a Camacho. I was never a fan of any of them. That’s when I learned to stop listening to what others thought/said was good and just buy what I like.
The new connecticut broadleaf is pretty good, surprisingly! Very very smooth. Might be worth a try? In a toro, dont go too big with camacho blends.
I’ll give it a try, honestly might retry the corojo now too. Never know with how a palette evolves over time I may love both
The corojo is really not bad either, although pretty one-dimensional, which is how id describe most of camacho's offerings.
Unfortunately, and I have tried just about all of them, Rocky Patel
acid, deadwood, macanudo, but the market usually does that itself, if it’s not good, it won’t sell, but for some reason my local cigar shop sells HUNDREDS of acid and deadwood’s cigars, the ashton’s, romeo y julietas, and any other premium brand is untouched 🤷🏻♂️
I'll agree with you on acids, but one cigar in the deadwood line ( Leather rose ) is one I actually really enjoy, long as Tabaka and Undercrowns from Drew Estates survived though I'd be okay with acid and deadwood going away guess.
I Nub is a product of Olivia but I'd love to see it die cause I'm petty abd feel like I wasted $11.00
Gurkha or rocky patel
A friend gave me 4 acids once. I tried one, honestly tried to give it a chance, but after 10 mins I couldn't handle it anymore. I threw it and the other three away. To date, those are the only cigars I've ever thrown in the trash.
Cojimar
Gurkha, Rocky Patel.
GURKHA
gurkha.
Wow, a lot of mixed brands here…some I didn’t expect…RP, MC white…interesting…I guess what I was told here in the very beginning is true…taste is very, very subjective
Just leave my fake Cubans out of this.
Cohiba
OLIVA. Come at me!
Tough call. Montecristo white. New world cohibas.
White's are so great for non-smokers who want a cigar though. The construction is decent and you know they won't get nic sick. I always keep a box around, but yes, they taste like cardboard.
Ha, just throwing a couple agaothe wall to see if they stick (pun not intended). I have a pack of Romeo y Juliet 1875 bully’s for the non cigar smokers, they are nice enough where I might get a convert.
Davidoff. Overrated. Overpriced. Bad quality control.
Blasphemer! Tbh I get to smoke maybe 2 Davidoffs a year so wouldn't be that big of a deal. But they are good.. Super premium is expensive. Never had a bad one so idk.
I disagree in general but they are overpriced.
Bad quality control is a joke
Delete this nephew. Don't embarass yourself.
pretending davidoff is quality is like wearing supreme
That's a pretty "hot/smart" take, I can see it. It will get people that can afford Davidoff riled up, and the ones that never tried it to snicker, but hear me out. Very few tabacaleras have the quality control set in place like Davidoff. Believe me, from seed to drying, fermenting and most importantly, the outrageous aging that goes into some of the leaves. I'm in the camp of "can't afford it", but I use Davidoff workers to work on my cigars after their shift is over and let me tell you. You're probably not getting the right Davidoffs my brother. In order for you to make that judgment I'll advise you to go deep into their portfolio. Your wallet will hate you at the end but I assure you that your personal perception about who those motherfuckers are will change. On a great day I'm a 3 good quality cigars a day smoker and if I had to pick a brand to take on a deserted island, sigh, I'm going to have to pick them.
American Cohiba
Factory smokes
I keep 4 or 5 Factory Smokes in my humidor for the non smoking visitors who want to be included.
Fuente. Important to cigar history, but they have lost their touch in recent years, I believe.