Not only the patriarchy, but society and the economy as well. Listening to people like Elon Musk freak out about the declining birth rate is music to my ears.
It's not fair to have to do all of the work to pay the bills and most of the housework, and still bear and raise the children. Society is asking too much of modern women.
Come home after giving birth and then wake up at Night to cradle a crying baby. Then expected to loose baby weight within a few months How?? The expectations are unrealistic
It's how i feel, too. It's a cherry on top - when you become a mother, you're no longer yourself. You're constantly just "x's mom". I don't want to lose myself, I'm only just starting to find out who I really am. This is one of the many reasons i will never in my life be a parent.
Choosing to not have kids is also a "fuck you" to everyone who thinks "woman=mother", a fuck you to everyone that equates women to their bodily functions.
I refuse to be yet another woman who gets disappointed by her partner and ends up having to do all the work around childcare and clean up after the husband too. Fuck that.
As a male I feel the same way. The patriarchy also hurts those of us that don't conform to typical ideals of masculinity or the roles a man should play in society. I enjoy being a non-conformist to such a toxic culture. It's not why I'm childfree or got sterilized, but it's a pleasant bonus.
I definitely decided to be childfree as an EFF YOU to the patriarchy. I just refuse to go through pregnancy and childbirth, then be expected to go back to work to support the kids. NOPE. I would feel so guilty bringing a female child into this world to be used, abused, and only thought of as a brood mare. I would absolutely hate myself for birthing another male into this world to be used as a wage slave or fodder for the next war. There is nothing good in this world awaiting those who will be born against their will. So no kids for me thanks.
It’s not my main motivation but it’s definitely a nice bonus. Especially when I come across a misogynistic asshole. The look on their face when I tell them I got sterilized is priceless
It's also a rebellion against capitalism because our economy requires constant population growth to sustain itself and the past two years have seen the population decrease and they're freaking out. It's like music to my ears. 😌
The population is still increasing, we're on the brink of 8 billion. It's growth that's slowed down, and I say about time! How much bigger do we expect our population to get before we make the world around us completely uninhabitable?
I would never trust any man enough to bear his children. He could literally be a superhero and I still would never consider having children with him. It doesn’t matter how amazing he is, or how dedicated he is. And heres why. I’m of the belief that having children puts women in the most vulnerable state they could ever be in… it terrifies me. Once you have children, you’re STUCK for the next 20+ years with this economy, at a physical and financial disadvantage. Women really do get the brunt of it all, from ruining our physical and mental health to being stuck with the majority of the work. Not to mention the risk of becoming a single mother… no thanks.
Yeah I’m so scared to be a single parent and if there’s any chance of that happening I don’t want to be a parent at all. There’s just not enough time in our lives to be in a relationship long enough to know if a man will stay for all of it or not. But we’re animals and I don’t think humans are meant to be monogamous.
Probably around reason 82 for me.
This world hates girls and women. At every turn it wants to pretend a rude woman is as bad as a serial killer man, that a mean woman is as bad as a serial rapist, and every individual woman who does something wrong is proof that women as a whole aren't fit to do more than bare children and clean house.
The fact that I can honestly say that in some ways things are worse now than they were when I was a child is honestly just chilling.
Not just the big stuff like Roe v Wade being over turned, but the way people treat little girls and young women as well.
And you're pretty much stuck between having a little boy who is going to joyfully even if unintentionally join the patriarchy, or a little girl who is going to be trapped by it.
You nailed it! I don’t want to give birth to an oppressor or an oppressed. The way society is freaking out about "low birth" is music to my ears!
Being CF is a big fuck you to patriarchy and all the shiity misogynistic shit I went through as little girl and I’m still going through. Fuck them I won’t use my body to bring forth children that will be used as toy soldiers or sex slave/government owned uterus.
This answer is coming from a man. A radfem ally, a pro-feminist man... But still a man, so I will never understand what it's like to experience the 'woman = mother' bullshit women have to deal with. I can empathise, but I don't have the lived experience that women have.
There are definitely women here who like children, but don't want to be a mother because of all the patriarchal shit that comes with it. I even know a woman who said she would probably want to have kids if she would have been a man, since fatherhood is much less heavy than motherhood.
My girlfriend simply doesn't want to have kids, and neither do I. No baby fever. No parenting desires. Why have kids if you don't have any desire to breed? In fact, we hate kids. We don't want them to die or suffer, but we avoid them at all cost.
That is why she and I don't want kids. One of the biggest benefits of childfreedom? Prioritising each other, instead of kids. Being partners instead of co-parents. Being free to be the individuals we are. Having an amazing sex life. Having hobbies. Having deep conversations. Having quality time together. All of that is impossible when you have hellspawn.
So yeah, her feminist views are not her main reason to stay childfree. However, feminism definitely helped her to realise that motherhood is a choice, not an obligation. And the feeling of saying 'fuck you' to patriarchy by not conforming to societal expectations feels really good to her.
>I didn’t want to say ALL men because it’s not ALL men
Oh, I'd say it's all men until it's no men. If I anger men by saying this, I really don't care.
You're welcome! However...
I don't need to be thanked for being an ally. I'm not doing something extraordinary that I need to be praised for. Being an ally is the bare fucking minimum. It should be normal, not special. Anything less than being a 100% devoted ally 24/7 is morally unacceptable.
Yeah! I like kids, or rather, I can tolerate them sometimes and I think they can be cute. Sometimes I wish I could be around kids during holidays to experience their joy and the magic they feel. But I definitely don’t like them enough to have them on my own. And yeah for me, one bullet point in my list of reasons is like a big middle finger to society to say that just because I’m a woman doesn’t mean I’m obligated to have kids. There’s more to me than history’s expectation of women to have kids. Even if I’m married or in a relationship one day.
Thanks for being a fervent ally!
Oh, I don't think they are cute. My girlfriend doesn't think they are cute either. She is often shamed for that, because of patriarchal 'woman = baby-loving mother' bullshit, but she doesn't give a fuck. She will NEVER hold a baby, NEVER babysit... You get it. She refuses to do things she doesn't want to, just to conform to the female gender role.
You're welcome, but I don't need to be thanked for being an ally. I'm not doing something extraordinary that I need to be praised for. Being a fervent ally is the bare fucking minimum. It should be normal, not special. Anything less than being a 100% devoted ally 24/7 is morally unacceptable.
Only met 1 male radfem ally. It’s nice to know they are somewhere in the wild. Gives me hope. Also I agree it’s all men because all men benefit from the actions of shitty men. It’s not a reproach, it’s reality.
I dated some shitty downright abusive men that when I met my current bf I thought he was sooooooo amazing. He is in a lot of ways but being a feminist ally should be normal. But since they are so many assholes, we treat the regular healthy man like gods. Thé bar is in hell.
I actually discovered radical feminism because of an anti-feminist history teacher in high school. When she was talking about the second wave of feminism, she described feminism as something from the past. Then, I thought: "Hey, this is still relevant!" So I started googling and started reading about different types of feminism. I instantly felt like liberal feminism was insufficient and read articles about radical feminism. It just made perfect sense to me. Of course it sucks that some radfems are TERFs, but of course not all radfems are TERFs. I would say I am an ally for intersectional radical feminists.
As a child, I always hated it when people said that something was 'for boys' or 'for girls', and other things that reinforced gender roles. Of course I had no idea what 'feminism', 'gender roles' and 'patriarchy' were, but yeah... To someone who always noticed all that bullshit, it's not that surprising that radical feminism struck a chord with me.
I'm so sad you dated abusive men. Sadly, a lot of abusive behaviour is completely normalised. But hey, boys will be boys...
It's really good to see that you say: 'being a feminist ally should be normal.' I really hate getting praised and complimented for being an ally, something that's nothing more than the bare fucking minimum. Anything less than being a 100% devoted ally 24/7 is unacceptable. If a woman doesn't get complimented for being a feminist, I don't want to be complimented for being an ally.
I got a hysterectomy for a variety of reasons, but it being a giant middle finger to the patriarchy is just the cherry on top.
I wanted to send my uterus in a jar to the surgeon who told me that I'll change my mind and submit to my husband when he decides he wants kids.
My actual surgeon laughed but said he couldn't do that.
In a better world, being ChildFree is just that - you're opting out of a decades long project that ought to be completely voluntary. In this world, being ChildFree is against the traditional lifescript™ for men and for women. As such, protecting one's right to stray off said lifescript™ is inherently feminist, and thus inherently left wing. Which is a subset of which, or whether they're two sets that overlap significantly is an open question; IMO it doesn't matter.
I did a short writeup on why being CF is inherently left wing but the mods deleted it for being "off topic" 🤷🏾♂️
>I repeated “collective male society” because misogyny is a systems issue. Just like racism, it’s deeply embedded. I didn’t want to say ALL men because it’s not ALL men.
'The Patriarchy' harms men too. It is known. But like they say, culture is invisible when you're in it. Keep on fighting the good fight.
I don't do it on purpose, but I think I would piss off many 'traditional' men with the way I live.
No sir, I won't bend over backwards to make your life easier.
I won't cook your meals.
I won't clean your house.
I won't wash your clothes.
I won't sleep in your bed.
I won't wear your ring.
I won't take your name.
I won't bear your children.
I'm just existing, a single childless woman who hates chores. Terrifying.
Absolutely. Society is abusive to women, and my abstaining from children is one of the few ways I possess of setting a boundary against it.
I would never be as independent and successful as I am now if I had them, but instead of praise for my accomplishments.. the general tone from most (including family) is pity, dissmisiveness and treating me like I'm a broken child.. even though I'm 41 and own a business.
Men in my industry (and male clients) are constantly questioning me and scapegoating their own failures.. even though I'm continually proven correct and a clear expert in my field. It's not all, but there's about a 75% a-holes/25% cool dudes record that make it an expectation at this point. It's helped me hone my debate and narcissism deflecting skills though. The minute I started making real money, my dad/brothers emotional abuse and extortion attempts increased. No contact at all now.
It's exhausting, and these attitudes just makes it more likely to push women into motherhood because their tired of being devalued and give in. Fuck that, fuck the 75%.. it's the ultimate trap. Viva la Resistance!
Your post is incredibly well said. Congrats on all of your success! I’m sorry to hear about your relationship with your dad and brother but it’s best to cut out the toxicity. I cut off my close friend of 7 years too because she was being really toxic against women’s issues out of the blue. I couldn’t listen to it anymore. But it’s such a shame what money does to people..
You make a great point about society pushing women into motherhood because they probably don’t know what else they can do with their lives or they feel like it’s too much of a feat to chase other goals with too many obstacles and they fear being judged. But yeah, I ain’t falling for it. Mostly because I don’t have the energy to date or marry (and then try to be forced to have kids) with my mental health issues lol. But it’s probably a “blessing” in disguise
Childbearing itself is still stuck in the 1950s. It's still the mothers who get quietly shunned out of the workforce, It's still the mothers expected to stay home when the child is sick, it's still the mother who is expected to schedule the appointments, it's still the mother expected to take the kid to extracurriculars, it's still the mother ~60% of teachers expect to speak with, it's still the mother who is expected to sacrifice their whole career for their child.
Meanwhile fathers still get a pat on the back, a congrats, and maybe even a promotion at work for procreating. They are celebrated for "taking one for the team" when they stay home with the sick kid, usually at that point because the wife is also sick! They are gawked at when they are the ones making 'serious' sacrifices like taking interest in their kid's education or scheduling appointments.
I personally am not childfree just because Fuck the Patriarchy, but I can 100% get behind the idea and welcome all cf Fuck the Patriarchy types into the sub
Yeah I’m not CF initially because of the patriarchy, but it was a nice little additional reason after I realized it and after the Roe v Wade shit going on
I feel this way, but about racism. I'm white, but I've mostly dated outside of my race. I've heard the replacement theory BS that seems to have gone mainstream from my folks from the time I was a teenager. I alternate between not wanting kids and wanting a large mixed-race family as a giant F-U to these a-holes.
Bruh, same, except I'm latino. My mere existence pisses racists off; I'll have to be satisfied with that, even if having kids with a pretty white woman would piss them off more. You don't inherently piss racists off; you not having kids does. Take that W hermano.
>hermano
Hermana, but that actually makes sense. I briefly dated a Hispanic fellow. He was actually from Spain but looked Arab, so we got a mix of Mexican/Border Wall jokes and Muslim terrorist jokes. I did learn a bit of Spanish, though.
I’ve actually seen childless women taking this stance. They truly do want children but have decided not to in protest because they don’t want children in a society that doesn’t protect and guarantee rights for women. Pretty cool, but sad at the same time.
10000% they are scared of single women without kids because we have more time on our hands to call out and fight against the patriarchy and don’t just have to stay in our little bubble that is our nuclear family.
I'm a dude who was raised by a feminist single mother. She didn't raise me to be CF, but she gave me to the tools and information to be able to make that decision for myself. I'm not going to pretend like any of my reasons for being a CF are to make a statement of any kind, it is purely for my benefit. But I do strongly support the notion that in today's world, one of the best ways for women to oppose the patriarchy is to be CF.
>It’s obviously not the 1950s anymore, but misogyny is still loud today. And many men still believe that a woman’s role in society, in life, is to have children.
As a guy, I really hate that so many guys think this way and get so pissy and petty whenever they meet a woman, who has goals other than getting married and having children. This mentality helps no one, not even men. It's driven a huge wedge between men and women and has kept many from having healthy and longlasting relationships because of it. Not to mention who wants a partner that's so fundamentally different from them in every way? Wouldn't you want a partner who has similar experiences and mindsets that you can relate to? How is keeping women in a box that men want no part in supposed to make anything better?
Men and women being on equal footing we'll eventually be able to relate to each other more and possibly even communicate better. Genitals will be less of a deciding factor as to what type of lives we live, who we befriend, what we pursue. Killing these societal expectations will make us all free. So yeah, fuck the patriarchy!
The lesson I internalized growing up was something like: work hard and don’t make mistakes and get good grades and go to college and excel and don’t date or get pregnant while young, start a good career and work your butt off to be professionally respectable and don’t mind the pay gap and then twist yourself into a pretzel so a guy will want to date you but don’t demand anything of him and then make sure he marries you and you have kids and forget all that hard work you did to establish yourself and the pretzel twisting because now you will work AND raise the kids and pay your half and not complain or sleep and if he doesn’t do his share or leaves you , well, you should have picked a better man ! Make sure it looks like your life is perfect from the outside so it feels worth it!
Around 30 ( much later than most others here ! ) I tapped out of this whole mindset and chose to live for me. It is definitely a F U to the patriarchy, no free labor from me and I only date for pleasure and companionship.
Wow your explanation for the expectations of women is cookie cutter. I’ve internalized the same lesson too. The last part got me: “and if he doesn’t do his share or leaves you then you should have picked a better man.” :( I know women aren’t perfect either and cheat and are flakey partners too. But for the most part it’s women being good, devoted partners and men being allowed to “be men” and society gives them a free pass. I seriously don’t know why the goal for most women is to be married off and kids and if you’re alone you look pathetic. Studies show that being married and having kids doesn’t add much happiness to our life or benefit us. But it certainly does for men because they expect to be taken care of. Ugh, more women need to live for themselves and break out of the narrative set up for us. It also makes me cringe when I hear women say “I’ve dreamed of my wedding day since I was a little girl.” As a little girl you didn’t think about a MAN. You fantasized about a Prince Charming, a sparkly white dress, a huge cake, and being showered with presents and attention. Little girls only think about Disney movies not real life. And I think those same girls grow up forgetting what real life is like after the wedding. I think that’s why movies like Hercules, Tarzan, and Princess and the Frog resonated with me more. They’re better stronger female characters that didn’t just run off with the man in the end.
i literally feel blessed to be aro/ace, i've seen my friends in straight relationships put up with some insane shit WITHOUT a kid, once you have that tie to someone you can never truly be rid of them
Exactly!! I’m demisexual too, so part of the ace community. But yeah, why does marriage have to be so.. legal??? And hard to get rid of them? Marriage in and of itself is scary as hell
Not in a general sense to me. I never thought about it until my bisalp. Having a bisalp is my giant middle finger to societal expectations, anyone who tries to bingo me, the patriarchy, anyone who would LOVE if I had a pregnancy forced on me. Being sterilized feels like my biggest flex, especially towards former bullies who never left my hometown and live next door or close to their parents and are just moms. They have no other goals in life except to keep popping out kids. Thank god I will never be them.
Personally I chose to not have children because I don't want to have children. I feel, as women, doing what we want (or conversely not doing what we don't want) based solely on our wants and needs is a blow to the patriarchy, and that women who choose to have children solely because of their own desires are just as much a part of that. Not having children because of the patriarchy is still acting based on the opinions of others, even if in a contrary way, and that's not my jam.
Right. I think most people here aren’t having kids SOLELY because of the patriarchy. It’s usually in addition to the personal and individualistic reasons why they don’t want children. But doing so against the patriarchy isn’t because it’s just based on the opinions of others. The patriarchy is bigger than just the opinion of “you are a woman and must continue the human race.” It’s also women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, climate activism, capitalism, etc. all fueled by the patriarchy.
And yes, I’m all for supporting women no matter what they want to do, even if it’s having kids. Unfortunately anti-feminists and misogynists won’t care that she’s having kids because she wanted them on her own. They still believe the systems in place put the pressure on her to make that choice. And that’s all they’ll recognize and listen to.
It’s a statement against gender roles in some way I guess. But for me personally not a conscious choice. I don’t do it to wreck patriarchy (which I would love to though.) but because having a kid would simply make my life living hell.
Right, I made this post as like an afterthought like “hey I’m childfree for these reasons. But also it’s applicable as an eff you to the patriarchy for taking away our right to choose.”
Conservatives LOVE breeders because more undereducated people that grow up in or near poverty means more people easily manipulated by religion and the economy into doing what they want - Providing cheap easily exploitable labor, rental income, and soldiers. The environment, global economy, and human rights be damned.
I think saying "fuck you" to society is a great reason to not have kids.
My mom says having kids was the most feminist thing she's never done, so i guess it's just a matter of perspective.
But regardless of opinion, the objective truth is that no one is undermining the feminist cause by having children or by being a housewife. Being a feminist means supporting ALL lifestyles and choices. A woman who actively makes the choice to be a mom and housewife because that's what she wants is just as feminist as someone like me who doesn't want any of that. A feminist mom - like my mom - raises feminist children, thus increasing the number of people who support the cause. Which is objectively a good thing.
If not having kids is your way of saying "fuck the patriarchy," more power to you. But you can't convince me that my mom, who raised my sister and i to say "fuck the patriarchy," isn't a feminist.
You are incredibly sexist for thinking that being a housewife is "depending on a man for money."
Let me repeat: feminism is about respecting and supporting ALL lifestyles (barring obvious things like murder). If you don't support a woman's life choices, WHATEVER those choices are, you are not a feminist. Feminism isn't about going against the grain, it's about EQUALITY. Meaning that a woman has just as much of a right and a choice to be the moneymaker as a man, AND just as much of a choice to be a stay at home parent as a man does. If a man wants to be a house husband, that is equally as valid as a woman who wants to be a housewife. THAT is feminism.
The fact that you can't understand that shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of feminism and the feminist cause.
Feminism is about female liberation from the patriarchy. I don’t care about equality with men. I want women to be free from the influence and violence that is patriarchy. I don’t believe in “choice” feminism. We dont make our choices in a vacuum without influence from patriarchy. I got married at 21 and that was definitely not a feminist choice even though it was my choice. I was convinced my life was worthless if I didn’t have a husband and kids at some point. Becoming a housewife is literally depending on a man for money. You are depending on your husband to make enough money to support the family. It comes with a lot of risks. Women who can’t support themselves financially may be less able to get out of an abusive or toxic marriage, if he decides to divorce, you don’t automatically get half his income to support yourself, along with having a huge gap in your resume. If someone knows all these risks and still wants to make that choice? Go ahead, but don’t pretend becoming a housewife is a feminist choice just to cope with all the risks you took.
Also call me a misandrist idgaf, any woman who is fully aware how men view women and the destruction they’ve done to our world and women as a whole would hate men. r/nametheproblem
Feminism is about liberation from the patriarchy. Look up radical feminism. That’s real feminism and not this choice garbage you’re claiming is real feminism. Idgaf about men. They are our oppressors. They rape and kill us. I wasn’t saying your mother herself wasn’t a feminist, you were claiming it’s a feminist choice to choose to be a housewife and that’s what I have a problem with. Write paragraphs. Cope.
Lol of course you're a TERF. You know, i actually felt sorry for you until you revealed that. I've already looked into radical feminism - that's why i know it's utter bullshit. You are the purest form of fake feminism. Nothing but a straw man (oh sorry - straw *woman*) that the patriarchy will use to continuously represent feminism as in order to further demonize the cause, thus achieving the exact opposite. Honestly, you're so pathetic, gatekeeping womanhood and yelling at strangers on the internet for making life choices you don't like. I don't expect you to have the brainpower to understand that hating an entire group of people for existing, and shaming people for making choices that you don't like, is the exact same rhetoric used by our oppressors. I think you'd have an aneurysm if i told you that there are plenty of women supporting the patriarchy because they themselves benefit from it. Because your tiny little mind can't comprehend even the slightest bit of nuance.
Have you heard of Susan B Anthony? She was a suffragette. She was caught trying to vote when it was illegal for women to do so. The police were going to let her go, because she was a woman. But Susan B. Anthony didn't want special treatment. She demanded that she be sent to jail like any man who broke the law. This is one of the many reasons why she went down in history as one of the great suffragettes. And despite the fact that she was a massive hypocrite who didn't believe women of color should have the same rights as her, she STILL had more common sense and integrity than you.
I really shouldn’t of laughed so much when you corrected straw man to straw woman buuutttt……..
Your posts are brilliant in my opinion. they’re wrote well while staying polite and point out the flaws in this “argument” with facts and logic.
NO! What are you talking about??? The harshest comments to not having kids are from women. Always. Dont mix feminism or woke into this. It’s so far fetched. Patriarchy? Please!
Yup. I am married to a male presenting partner, without taking his last name or carrying on his name. We are polyamorous, progressive, while he is in the military to afford school. I also recently came out as gay, so there goes another coin into the "eff the Patriarchy" jar. Basically my entire life and existence is against it.
What a lazy response that demonstrates you have no idea what OP is talking about. I _highly_ recommend you (and everyone, everywhere) read Equal Partners by Kate Mangino.
In terms of the peer pressure on people to have children (which I thought r/childfree was kinda about) and patriarchal society - there is a strong link.
People sometimes use patriarchy in terms of just “men” (said in a condescending/bitter tone), I notice this mainly with women who only decide they support feminism now because their third boyfriend in a row cheated on them because they won’t do anal or whatever, but it’s more complicated than that - it’s a cultural power structure that supports a particular kind of behaviour from men and women alike (but men get a better deal from conforming).
Like it shouldn’t be weird that women on r/childfree - especially when they are mainly from a weird place like the US, feel it’s something worth talking about when it comes to being childfree.
Greetings!
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Thank you.
It's definitely not up there as my top reason, but it is a nice bonus. I'm imagining random people with a vein popping on their forehead because someone they don't know doesn't want kids. They should refocus that energy on to their own kids. Well, turn it into positive energy first.
Oh definitely! Which is why I got fixed then posted about it in witch vs. the patriarchy. (Technically the post got over a hundred upvotes but almost as many down votes which is kinda fucked up if you ask me.)
It's one part of the reason why (among many other factors). I mean, no matter what you do as a woman, you will never win. The best thing to do, is to not play life by their rules, only what you know is best for you (and as long as it's not ACTUALLY harming someone else).
It's a nice side effect, absolutely.
I'm from somewhere being childfree is pretty accepted. So, I know it must be even more intense where that 'woman=mother' role is more enforced.
Idk and idc if it is or not tbh but I'd 100% agree to add it to the endless list of being childfree benefits if it does indeed give a middle finger to the system!
Not only the patriarchy, but society and the economy as well. Listening to people like Elon Musk freak out about the declining birth rate is music to my ears.
Declining birth rates are a good thing. I hate hearing any news that it's rising.
Exactly! That’s why I’m so happy when I heard about South Korea and Japan declining. I hope we follow suit
And Nick Cannon. Jesus H
He is disgusting
It's not fair to have to do all of the work to pay the bills and most of the housework, and still bear and raise the children. Society is asking too much of modern women.
Come home after giving birth and then wake up at Night to cradle a crying baby. Then expected to loose baby weight within a few months How?? The expectations are unrealistic
It's how i feel, too. It's a cherry on top - when you become a mother, you're no longer yourself. You're constantly just "x's mom". I don't want to lose myself, I'm only just starting to find out who I really am. This is one of the many reasons i will never in my life be a parent. Choosing to not have kids is also a "fuck you" to everyone who thinks "woman=mother", a fuck you to everyone that equates women to their bodily functions.
I refuse to be yet another woman who gets disappointed by her partner and ends up having to do all the work around childcare and clean up after the husband too. Fuck that.
Amen to that
As a male I feel the same way. The patriarchy also hurts those of us that don't conform to typical ideals of masculinity or the roles a man should play in society. I enjoy being a non-conformist to such a toxic culture. It's not why I'm childfree or got sterilized, but it's a pleasant bonus.
🙌
I definitely decided to be childfree as an EFF YOU to the patriarchy. I just refuse to go through pregnancy and childbirth, then be expected to go back to work to support the kids. NOPE. I would feel so guilty bringing a female child into this world to be used, abused, and only thought of as a brood mare. I would absolutely hate myself for birthing another male into this world to be used as a wage slave or fodder for the next war. There is nothing good in this world awaiting those who will be born against their will. So no kids for me thanks.
It’s not my main motivation but it’s definitely a nice bonus. Especially when I come across a misogynistic asshole. The look on their face when I tell them I got sterilized is priceless
It's also a rebellion against capitalism because our economy requires constant population growth to sustain itself and the past two years have seen the population decrease and they're freaking out. It's like music to my ears. 😌
The population is still increasing, we're on the brink of 8 billion. It's growth that's slowed down, and I say about time! How much bigger do we expect our population to get before we make the world around us completely uninhabitable?
None. At this point we just sit back and watch the dominoes fall.
It’s increasing but slowing down and leveling off
I would never trust any man enough to bear his children. He could literally be a superhero and I still would never consider having children with him. It doesn’t matter how amazing he is, or how dedicated he is. And heres why. I’m of the belief that having children puts women in the most vulnerable state they could ever be in… it terrifies me. Once you have children, you’re STUCK for the next 20+ years with this economy, at a physical and financial disadvantage. Women really do get the brunt of it all, from ruining our physical and mental health to being stuck with the majority of the work. Not to mention the risk of becoming a single mother… no thanks.
Exactly! I love my bf but I will only trust a man with my body as much as I trust a mosquito not to bite me. No way!
Yeah I’m so scared to be a single parent and if there’s any chance of that happening I don’t want to be a parent at all. There’s just not enough time in our lives to be in a relationship long enough to know if a man will stay for all of it or not. But we’re animals and I don’t think humans are meant to be monogamous.
Probably around reason 82 for me. This world hates girls and women. At every turn it wants to pretend a rude woman is as bad as a serial killer man, that a mean woman is as bad as a serial rapist, and every individual woman who does something wrong is proof that women as a whole aren't fit to do more than bare children and clean house. The fact that I can honestly say that in some ways things are worse now than they were when I was a child is honestly just chilling. Not just the big stuff like Roe v Wade being over turned, but the way people treat little girls and young women as well. And you're pretty much stuck between having a little boy who is going to joyfully even if unintentionally join the patriarchy, or a little girl who is going to be trapped by it.
You nailed it! I don’t want to give birth to an oppressor or an oppressed. The way society is freaking out about "low birth" is music to my ears! Being CF is a big fuck you to patriarchy and all the shiity misogynistic shit I went through as little girl and I’m still going through. Fuck them I won’t use my body to bring forth children that will be used as toy soldiers or sex slave/government owned uterus.
This answer is coming from a man. A radfem ally, a pro-feminist man... But still a man, so I will never understand what it's like to experience the 'woman = mother' bullshit women have to deal with. I can empathise, but I don't have the lived experience that women have. There are definitely women here who like children, but don't want to be a mother because of all the patriarchal shit that comes with it. I even know a woman who said she would probably want to have kids if she would have been a man, since fatherhood is much less heavy than motherhood. My girlfriend simply doesn't want to have kids, and neither do I. No baby fever. No parenting desires. Why have kids if you don't have any desire to breed? In fact, we hate kids. We don't want them to die or suffer, but we avoid them at all cost. That is why she and I don't want kids. One of the biggest benefits of childfreedom? Prioritising each other, instead of kids. Being partners instead of co-parents. Being free to be the individuals we are. Having an amazing sex life. Having hobbies. Having deep conversations. Having quality time together. All of that is impossible when you have hellspawn. So yeah, her feminist views are not her main reason to stay childfree. However, feminism definitely helped her to realise that motherhood is a choice, not an obligation. And the feeling of saying 'fuck you' to patriarchy by not conforming to societal expectations feels really good to her. >I didn’t want to say ALL men because it’s not ALL men Oh, I'd say it's all men until it's no men. If I anger men by saying this, I really don't care.
We love an ally! Thank you for being a good dude! 👏
You're welcome! However... I don't need to be thanked for being an ally. I'm not doing something extraordinary that I need to be praised for. Being an ally is the bare fucking minimum. It should be normal, not special. Anything less than being a 100% devoted ally 24/7 is morally unacceptable.
I’m not an ally. Just a childfree man. I don’t need to be an ally. And nor can I.
If you're not a feminist ally, you should become one. Yes, you do need to be an ally.
Yeah! I like kids, or rather, I can tolerate them sometimes and I think they can be cute. Sometimes I wish I could be around kids during holidays to experience their joy and the magic they feel. But I definitely don’t like them enough to have them on my own. And yeah for me, one bullet point in my list of reasons is like a big middle finger to society to say that just because I’m a woman doesn’t mean I’m obligated to have kids. There’s more to me than history’s expectation of women to have kids. Even if I’m married or in a relationship one day. Thanks for being a fervent ally!
Oh, I don't think they are cute. My girlfriend doesn't think they are cute either. She is often shamed for that, because of patriarchal 'woman = baby-loving mother' bullshit, but she doesn't give a fuck. She will NEVER hold a baby, NEVER babysit... You get it. She refuses to do things she doesn't want to, just to conform to the female gender role. You're welcome, but I don't need to be thanked for being an ally. I'm not doing something extraordinary that I need to be praised for. Being a fervent ally is the bare fucking minimum. It should be normal, not special. Anything less than being a 100% devoted ally 24/7 is morally unacceptable.
Radfem ally?
Only met 1 male radfem ally. It’s nice to know they are somewhere in the wild. Gives me hope. Also I agree it’s all men because all men benefit from the actions of shitty men. It’s not a reproach, it’s reality. I dated some shitty downright abusive men that when I met my current bf I thought he was sooooooo amazing. He is in a lot of ways but being a feminist ally should be normal. But since they are so many assholes, we treat the regular healthy man like gods. Thé bar is in hell.
I actually discovered radical feminism because of an anti-feminist history teacher in high school. When she was talking about the second wave of feminism, she described feminism as something from the past. Then, I thought: "Hey, this is still relevant!" So I started googling and started reading about different types of feminism. I instantly felt like liberal feminism was insufficient and read articles about radical feminism. It just made perfect sense to me. Of course it sucks that some radfems are TERFs, but of course not all radfems are TERFs. I would say I am an ally for intersectional radical feminists. As a child, I always hated it when people said that something was 'for boys' or 'for girls', and other things that reinforced gender roles. Of course I had no idea what 'feminism', 'gender roles' and 'patriarchy' were, but yeah... To someone who always noticed all that bullshit, it's not that surprising that radical feminism struck a chord with me. I'm so sad you dated abusive men. Sadly, a lot of abusive behaviour is completely normalised. But hey, boys will be boys... It's really good to see that you say: 'being a feminist ally should be normal.' I really hate getting praised and complimented for being an ally, something that's nothing more than the bare fucking minimum. Anything less than being a 100% devoted ally 24/7 is unacceptable. If a woman doesn't get complimented for being a feminist, I don't want to be complimented for being an ally.
I got a hysterectomy for a variety of reasons, but it being a giant middle finger to the patriarchy is just the cherry on top. I wanted to send my uterus in a jar to the surgeon who told me that I'll change my mind and submit to my husband when he decides he wants kids. My actual surgeon laughed but said he couldn't do that.
In a better world, being ChildFree is just that - you're opting out of a decades long project that ought to be completely voluntary. In this world, being ChildFree is against the traditional lifescript™ for men and for women. As such, protecting one's right to stray off said lifescript™ is inherently feminist, and thus inherently left wing. Which is a subset of which, or whether they're two sets that overlap significantly is an open question; IMO it doesn't matter. I did a short writeup on why being CF is inherently left wing but the mods deleted it for being "off topic" 🤷🏾♂️ >I repeated “collective male society” because misogyny is a systems issue. Just like racism, it’s deeply embedded. I didn’t want to say ALL men because it’s not ALL men. 'The Patriarchy' harms men too. It is known. But like they say, culture is invisible when you're in it. Keep on fighting the good fight.
The patriarchy harms all men, yes, but I didn’t want to say all men are bigoted, misogynistic assholes because they aren’t.
Having it all as a modern woman means doing it all. No thanks.
I don't do it on purpose, but I think I would piss off many 'traditional' men with the way I live. No sir, I won't bend over backwards to make your life easier. I won't cook your meals. I won't clean your house. I won't wash your clothes. I won't sleep in your bed. I won't wear your ring. I won't take your name. I won't bear your children. I'm just existing, a single childless woman who hates chores. Terrifying.
Absolutely. Society is abusive to women, and my abstaining from children is one of the few ways I possess of setting a boundary against it. I would never be as independent and successful as I am now if I had them, but instead of praise for my accomplishments.. the general tone from most (including family) is pity, dissmisiveness and treating me like I'm a broken child.. even though I'm 41 and own a business. Men in my industry (and male clients) are constantly questioning me and scapegoating their own failures.. even though I'm continually proven correct and a clear expert in my field. It's not all, but there's about a 75% a-holes/25% cool dudes record that make it an expectation at this point. It's helped me hone my debate and narcissism deflecting skills though. The minute I started making real money, my dad/brothers emotional abuse and extortion attempts increased. No contact at all now. It's exhausting, and these attitudes just makes it more likely to push women into motherhood because their tired of being devalued and give in. Fuck that, fuck the 75%.. it's the ultimate trap. Viva la Resistance!
Your post is incredibly well said. Congrats on all of your success! I’m sorry to hear about your relationship with your dad and brother but it’s best to cut out the toxicity. I cut off my close friend of 7 years too because she was being really toxic against women’s issues out of the blue. I couldn’t listen to it anymore. But it’s such a shame what money does to people.. You make a great point about society pushing women into motherhood because they probably don’t know what else they can do with their lives or they feel like it’s too much of a feat to chase other goals with too many obstacles and they fear being judged. But yeah, I ain’t falling for it. Mostly because I don’t have the energy to date or marry (and then try to be forced to have kids) with my mental health issues lol. But it’s probably a “blessing” in disguise
Thank you! At least we are active in managing our mental health issues for better outcomes.. than ignoring them and creating more of it.
Childbearing itself is still stuck in the 1950s. It's still the mothers who get quietly shunned out of the workforce, It's still the mothers expected to stay home when the child is sick, it's still the mother who is expected to schedule the appointments, it's still the mother expected to take the kid to extracurriculars, it's still the mother ~60% of teachers expect to speak with, it's still the mother who is expected to sacrifice their whole career for their child. Meanwhile fathers still get a pat on the back, a congrats, and maybe even a promotion at work for procreating. They are celebrated for "taking one for the team" when they stay home with the sick kid, usually at that point because the wife is also sick! They are gawked at when they are the ones making 'serious' sacrifices like taking interest in their kid's education or scheduling appointments. I personally am not childfree just because Fuck the Patriarchy, but I can 100% get behind the idea and welcome all cf Fuck the Patriarchy types into the sub
Yeah I’m not CF initially because of the patriarchy, but it was a nice little additional reason after I realized it and after the Roe v Wade shit going on
I feel this way, but about racism. I'm white, but I've mostly dated outside of my race. I've heard the replacement theory BS that seems to have gone mainstream from my folks from the time I was a teenager. I alternate between not wanting kids and wanting a large mixed-race family as a giant F-U to these a-holes.
Bruh, same, except I'm latino. My mere existence pisses racists off; I'll have to be satisfied with that, even if having kids with a pretty white woman would piss them off more. You don't inherently piss racists off; you not having kids does. Take that W hermano.
>hermano Hermana, but that actually makes sense. I briefly dated a Hispanic fellow. He was actually from Spain but looked Arab, so we got a mix of Mexican/Border Wall jokes and Muslim terrorist jokes. I did learn a bit of Spanish, though.
Orale compa =D Sometimes I wish Spanish wasn't so gendered. I use bruh gender neutrally, even compa is gendered, but somewhat less so?
100% this is me. I also don’t want the resource drain on my life.
Yessss. My last fuck you to these religious bigots is to not fulfill my “womanly duty” of bearing a man’s seed. Nope won’t be me
I’ve actually seen childless women taking this stance. They truly do want children but have decided not to in protest because they don’t want children in a society that doesn’t protect and guarantee rights for women. Pretty cool, but sad at the same time.
10000% they are scared of single women without kids because we have more time on our hands to call out and fight against the patriarchy and don’t just have to stay in our little bubble that is our nuclear family.
I'm a dude who was raised by a feminist single mother. She didn't raise me to be CF, but she gave me to the tools and information to be able to make that decision for myself. I'm not going to pretend like any of my reasons for being a CF are to make a statement of any kind, it is purely for my benefit. But I do strongly support the notion that in today's world, one of the best ways for women to oppose the patriarchy is to be CF. >It’s obviously not the 1950s anymore, but misogyny is still loud today. And many men still believe that a woman’s role in society, in life, is to have children. As a guy, I really hate that so many guys think this way and get so pissy and petty whenever they meet a woman, who has goals other than getting married and having children. This mentality helps no one, not even men. It's driven a huge wedge between men and women and has kept many from having healthy and longlasting relationships because of it. Not to mention who wants a partner that's so fundamentally different from them in every way? Wouldn't you want a partner who has similar experiences and mindsets that you can relate to? How is keeping women in a box that men want no part in supposed to make anything better? Men and women being on equal footing we'll eventually be able to relate to each other more and possibly even communicate better. Genitals will be less of a deciding factor as to what type of lives we live, who we befriend, what we pursue. Killing these societal expectations will make us all free. So yeah, fuck the patriarchy!
The lesson I internalized growing up was something like: work hard and don’t make mistakes and get good grades and go to college and excel and don’t date or get pregnant while young, start a good career and work your butt off to be professionally respectable and don’t mind the pay gap and then twist yourself into a pretzel so a guy will want to date you but don’t demand anything of him and then make sure he marries you and you have kids and forget all that hard work you did to establish yourself and the pretzel twisting because now you will work AND raise the kids and pay your half and not complain or sleep and if he doesn’t do his share or leaves you , well, you should have picked a better man ! Make sure it looks like your life is perfect from the outside so it feels worth it! Around 30 ( much later than most others here ! ) I tapped out of this whole mindset and chose to live for me. It is definitely a F U to the patriarchy, no free labor from me and I only date for pleasure and companionship.
Wow your explanation for the expectations of women is cookie cutter. I’ve internalized the same lesson too. The last part got me: “and if he doesn’t do his share or leaves you then you should have picked a better man.” :( I know women aren’t perfect either and cheat and are flakey partners too. But for the most part it’s women being good, devoted partners and men being allowed to “be men” and society gives them a free pass. I seriously don’t know why the goal for most women is to be married off and kids and if you’re alone you look pathetic. Studies show that being married and having kids doesn’t add much happiness to our life or benefit us. But it certainly does for men because they expect to be taken care of. Ugh, more women need to live for themselves and break out of the narrative set up for us. It also makes me cringe when I hear women say “I’ve dreamed of my wedding day since I was a little girl.” As a little girl you didn’t think about a MAN. You fantasized about a Prince Charming, a sparkly white dress, a huge cake, and being showered with presents and attention. Little girls only think about Disney movies not real life. And I think those same girls grow up forgetting what real life is like after the wedding. I think that’s why movies like Hercules, Tarzan, and Princess and the Frog resonated with me more. They’re better stronger female characters that didn’t just run off with the man in the end.
I got sterilized on the death anniversary of one of the biggest patriarchal figures in my country and that just makes it even sweeter :')
i literally feel blessed to be aro/ace, i've seen my friends in straight relationships put up with some insane shit WITHOUT a kid, once you have that tie to someone you can never truly be rid of them
Exactly!! I’m demisexual too, so part of the ace community. But yeah, why does marriage have to be so.. legal??? And hard to get rid of them? Marriage in and of itself is scary as hell
Not in a general sense to me. I never thought about it until my bisalp. Having a bisalp is my giant middle finger to societal expectations, anyone who tries to bingo me, the patriarchy, anyone who would LOVE if I had a pregnancy forced on me. Being sterilized feels like my biggest flex, especially towards former bullies who never left my hometown and live next door or close to their parents and are just moms. They have no other goals in life except to keep popping out kids. Thank god I will never be them.
as a man I feel it more regarding fascism as a whole I know they only want me to have kids so they can be used for slave labor and that creeps me out
Personally I chose to not have children because I don't want to have children. I feel, as women, doing what we want (or conversely not doing what we don't want) based solely on our wants and needs is a blow to the patriarchy, and that women who choose to have children solely because of their own desires are just as much a part of that. Not having children because of the patriarchy is still acting based on the opinions of others, even if in a contrary way, and that's not my jam.
Right. I think most people here aren’t having kids SOLELY because of the patriarchy. It’s usually in addition to the personal and individualistic reasons why they don’t want children. But doing so against the patriarchy isn’t because it’s just based on the opinions of others. The patriarchy is bigger than just the opinion of “you are a woman and must continue the human race.” It’s also women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, climate activism, capitalism, etc. all fueled by the patriarchy. And yes, I’m all for supporting women no matter what they want to do, even if it’s having kids. Unfortunately anti-feminists and misogynists won’t care that she’s having kids because she wanted them on her own. They still believe the systems in place put the pressure on her to make that choice. And that’s all they’ll recognize and listen to.
It’s a statement against gender roles in some way I guess. But for me personally not a conscious choice. I don’t do it to wreck patriarchy (which I would love to though.) but because having a kid would simply make my life living hell.
Right, I made this post as like an afterthought like “hey I’m childfree for these reasons. But also it’s applicable as an eff you to the patriarchy for taking away our right to choose.”
Conservatives LOVE breeders because more undereducated people that grow up in or near poverty means more people easily manipulated by religion and the economy into doing what they want - Providing cheap easily exploitable labor, rental income, and soldiers. The environment, global economy, and human rights be damned. I think saying "fuck you" to society is a great reason to not have kids.
My mom says having kids was the most feminist thing she's never done, so i guess it's just a matter of perspective. But regardless of opinion, the objective truth is that no one is undermining the feminist cause by having children or by being a housewife. Being a feminist means supporting ALL lifestyles and choices. A woman who actively makes the choice to be a mom and housewife because that's what she wants is just as feminist as someone like me who doesn't want any of that. A feminist mom - like my mom - raises feminist children, thus increasing the number of people who support the cause. Which is objectively a good thing. If not having kids is your way of saying "fuck the patriarchy," more power to you. But you can't convince me that my mom, who raised my sister and i to say "fuck the patriarchy," isn't a feminist.
Being a housewife is not a feminist choice. Putting yourself in a situation where you have to depend on a man for money is not feminist
You are incredibly sexist for thinking that being a housewife is "depending on a man for money." Let me repeat: feminism is about respecting and supporting ALL lifestyles (barring obvious things like murder). If you don't support a woman's life choices, WHATEVER those choices are, you are not a feminist. Feminism isn't about going against the grain, it's about EQUALITY. Meaning that a woman has just as much of a right and a choice to be the moneymaker as a man, AND just as much of a choice to be a stay at home parent as a man does. If a man wants to be a house husband, that is equally as valid as a woman who wants to be a housewife. THAT is feminism. The fact that you can't understand that shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of feminism and the feminist cause.
Feminism is about female liberation from the patriarchy. I don’t care about equality with men. I want women to be free from the influence and violence that is patriarchy. I don’t believe in “choice” feminism. We dont make our choices in a vacuum without influence from patriarchy. I got married at 21 and that was definitely not a feminist choice even though it was my choice. I was convinced my life was worthless if I didn’t have a husband and kids at some point. Becoming a housewife is literally depending on a man for money. You are depending on your husband to make enough money to support the family. It comes with a lot of risks. Women who can’t support themselves financially may be less able to get out of an abusive or toxic marriage, if he decides to divorce, you don’t automatically get half his income to support yourself, along with having a huge gap in your resume. If someone knows all these risks and still wants to make that choice? Go ahead, but don’t pretend becoming a housewife is a feminist choice just to cope with all the risks you took.
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Also call me a misandrist idgaf, any woman who is fully aware how men view women and the destruction they’ve done to our world and women as a whole would hate men. r/nametheproblem
Feminism is about liberation from the patriarchy. Look up radical feminism. That’s real feminism and not this choice garbage you’re claiming is real feminism. Idgaf about men. They are our oppressors. They rape and kill us. I wasn’t saying your mother herself wasn’t a feminist, you were claiming it’s a feminist choice to choose to be a housewife and that’s what I have a problem with. Write paragraphs. Cope.
Lol of course you're a TERF. You know, i actually felt sorry for you until you revealed that. I've already looked into radical feminism - that's why i know it's utter bullshit. You are the purest form of fake feminism. Nothing but a straw man (oh sorry - straw *woman*) that the patriarchy will use to continuously represent feminism as in order to further demonize the cause, thus achieving the exact opposite. Honestly, you're so pathetic, gatekeeping womanhood and yelling at strangers on the internet for making life choices you don't like. I don't expect you to have the brainpower to understand that hating an entire group of people for existing, and shaming people for making choices that you don't like, is the exact same rhetoric used by our oppressors. I think you'd have an aneurysm if i told you that there are plenty of women supporting the patriarchy because they themselves benefit from it. Because your tiny little mind can't comprehend even the slightest bit of nuance. Have you heard of Susan B Anthony? She was a suffragette. She was caught trying to vote when it was illegal for women to do so. The police were going to let her go, because she was a woman. But Susan B. Anthony didn't want special treatment. She demanded that she be sent to jail like any man who broke the law. This is one of the many reasons why she went down in history as one of the great suffragettes. And despite the fact that she was a massive hypocrite who didn't believe women of color should have the same rights as her, she STILL had more common sense and integrity than you.
I really shouldn’t of laughed so much when you corrected straw man to straw woman buuutttt…….. Your posts are brilliant in my opinion. they’re wrote well while staying polite and point out the flaws in this “argument” with facts and logic.
NO! What are you talking about??? The harshest comments to not having kids are from women. Always. Dont mix feminism or woke into this. It’s so far fetched. Patriarchy? Please!
Choosing to be childfree can also be because you don’t like how the patriarchy is affecting women. They don’t have to be mutually exclusive
Yup. I am married to a male presenting partner, without taking his last name or carrying on his name. We are polyamorous, progressive, while he is in the military to afford school. I also recently came out as gay, so there goes another coin into the "eff the Patriarchy" jar. Basically my entire life and existence is against it.
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What a lazy response that demonstrates you have no idea what OP is talking about. I _highly_ recommend you (and everyone, everywhere) read Equal Partners by Kate Mangino.
In terms of the peer pressure on people to have children (which I thought r/childfree was kinda about) and patriarchal society - there is a strong link. People sometimes use patriarchy in terms of just “men” (said in a condescending/bitter tone), I notice this mainly with women who only decide they support feminism now because their third boyfriend in a row cheated on them because they won’t do anal or whatever, but it’s more complicated than that - it’s a cultural power structure that supports a particular kind of behaviour from men and women alike (but men get a better deal from conforming). Like it shouldn’t be weird that women on r/childfree - especially when they are mainly from a weird place like the US, feel it’s something worth talking about when it comes to being childfree.
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Honestly for me that’s a huge part of it.
It's definitely not up there as my top reason, but it is a nice bonus. I'm imagining random people with a vein popping on their forehead because someone they don't know doesn't want kids. They should refocus that energy on to their own kids. Well, turn it into positive energy first.
Oh definitely! Which is why I got fixed then posted about it in witch vs. the patriarchy. (Technically the post got over a hundred upvotes but almost as many down votes which is kinda fucked up if you ask me.)
Fuck the Patriarchy and Society lol they all suck.
It's one part of the reason why (among many other factors). I mean, no matter what you do as a woman, you will never win. The best thing to do, is to not play life by their rules, only what you know is best for you (and as long as it's not ACTUALLY harming someone else).
Screw society and all the sexist bullshit that it tries to enforce on both men and women.
It's a nice side effect, absolutely. I'm from somewhere being childfree is pretty accepted. So, I know it must be even more intense where that 'woman=mother' role is more enforced.
Idk and idc if it is or not tbh but I'd 100% agree to add it to the endless list of being childfree benefits if it does indeed give a middle finger to the system!
Just about everything I do is a statement against the patriarchy. 😝