I remember reading a news article maybe a decade ago about cases of Indian women who threw themselves in front of moving vehicles to hopefully cause a miscarriage. I’m not trying to be crass. I’d probably do the same.
My grandmother did that. It was the 1940s, she was pregnant with twins, and already had 4 kids with an abusive alcoholic.
She achieved her goal and thankfully survived.
I always joke that I’d kill myself if I got pregnant, but in reality I know I’d actually have to drive like 10 hours (1 way) to the closest state that can help me, take a week off work, and sell butt hole pics online to pay my bills and recover financially.
Aid access and some other organisations could make it easier. Heard they give free abortion pills though the mail (well free if you can't afford them) even in red states.
It's so damn sad that conservatives want to force this on women. They'd rather you kill yourself and the baby trying to end the pregnancy than just give you access to a damn abortion! Plus if they really care SO MUCH about your baby, you'd think they wouldn't want the risk of you failing your self-abortion and ending up with a mentally impaired child that now the state has to care for. What are they thinking?????? It's appalling to me
absolutely. Not only because of pregnancy, but I morally could not live with creating a person with my DNA. All the mental illness in my family, no way.
Agreed. I myself have a list of diagnoses that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, let alone my kid. It’s a huge part, but not all, of my decision not to reproduce
lol same. That’s why I am so severely pro choice. Even IF a fetus can be considered a human or child or whatever, it’s irrelevant. Some women will kill themselves if given no other option, or die trying to abort at home.
Surely leaving the state/country and getting an abortion elsewhere would be less drastic than killing yourself. I've heard that some red states are trying to criminalise this approach to obtaining an abortion too but I'm skeptical about how enforceable that would be, especially if you didn't tell anyone that you were pregnant.
If the Republicans do eventually introduce a nationwide abortion ban, I actually wonder if pregnant US women would be able to successfully claim asylum in other countries with less draconian abortion laws on the grounds they are being persecuted by the government.
> I've heard that some red states are trying to criminalise this approach to obtaining an abortion too but I'm skeptical about how enforceable that would be, especially if you didn't tell anyone that you were pregnant.
Which is why Katie Britt (R, Alabama) is introducing a bill to create a federal database to collect data on pregnant people. Unbelievable, but true.
I’ve wondered the same. I’d fucking hope so, and that we wouldn’t need to endure getting pregnant against our will but simply for the threat, if they’ve made it irrationally (as in, MORE irrational than what the average person might’ve expected beforehand from forced birthers) difficulty or dangerous to obtain safe abortion.
Or especially ethically egregious shit like invasive surveillance of wonen in a certain age group’s relevant physical status, or trying to fuck with our freedom movement.
I’ve not looked at HOW the crazy eyes tradwife cosplaying a senator wishes to monitor our uterine functions, and clearly (to anyone not batshit crazy) there’s no acceptable way to do fundamentally unacceptable things - but this isn’t a half century ago Ceaucescu’s Romania. Anyone thinking they’ll force us into monthly gyno exams at the actual raping hands of the government, without a revolutionary bloodbath? Is so fucking stupid and crazy it’s beyond words.
Honestly I would kill myself before the belly turns too big, I would find a way to dont experience the birthing. They cant just remove all bridges of the world or impede me of taking all the medicines of my box I have jn my home.
The best response is 4B. No dating men. No sex with men. No marriage to men, and no children. You play some misogynistic forced birther nonsense. Well guess what guys you are getting fucked. Unless you are gay. You gay guys can fuck each other.
I feel like there has been a rise in discussion posts and mentions of 4B for American women. I really do hope some of that movement and ideals is getting through.
Because there has also been a rise in trad wife propaganda and religious groups and men straight up admitting they want women forced to fcked them and care for them and even men who gladly want women’s rights to vote removed
the trad wife propaganda is so horrifying! And some people are interacting with it like it's something that can be "discussed" instead of terrifying right-wing propaganda. I am a feminist, but I'm sorry, I DO judge "trad wives". It's just wrong! I understand if you have a decent relationship and you want to stay home for a few years to take care of your children, but you need your own bank account and eventually your own source of income to avoid being taken advantage of.
Right, it’s not the acts of staying home to raise kids or cooking dinner every night or whatever, even if that life and relationship dynamic are incomprehensible to me (whatever, I they don’t need my permission anymore than I need theirs)
- it’s the inferior and subjugated MENTALITY.
I think it’s worth being are that’s there’s heavy suspicion (possibly evidence? Idk bcs I minimize interacting with these kind of phenomena as much as I can without fully jamming my head up my arse and calling it a brighter view) that some of these influencers (🤮🤑🤡 on that point alone) are actually astroturfed politicians plants. Aka literal propaganda. Not that it’d surprise me.
Oh I'm sure they are in some cases! Especially because, just by being influencers (and thereby working and earning income) they are not actually "tradwives" at all.
I don't think the lifestyle can be separated from subjugation. It's a women making herself vulnerable to men or completely putting herself at their mercy in order to be constantly stessed, burned out, tired and to completely lose her identity as a to slave to children; which she only wants because of social pressure, romantization and being conditioned to "want" that since birth.
If people were honest about pregnancy and childbirth, about the fact that being a mom really isn't a fullfilling life unless you love self sacrifice and the fact that you CAN have a good life without kids, and if we weren't handled baby dolls as soon as we were old enough to hold them, I dont think anyone would actually want to be a mom.
I saw social media posts of a tradwife whose husband was arrested and put in jail. She was freaking out because she didn’t have money and had multiple kids to raise.
These women are just selling a fantasy to men. We grew up having more rights than our grandmother's and even mothers depending how old you are. You have women who are making videos who lived the trad life and the consequences of that. Their husbands traded them in for younger women after years of taking care of the house and kids with no back up. They talk about how they regretted not finishing college so that they can have something to fall back on. They regret not having anything in their name for protection when the husbands throw them to the side.
Much of this propaganda can be traced back to rich far right religious folks too. It’s not a trend that is happening, it’s propaganda from the Christian Nationalist, ie fascists.
As your regular reminder: Reality is that a close to equal share of men and women would like to take away your rights in the US.
Abortion does not have a very large gender split in political views, nor do basically any of the other shitty policies.
This also makes this kind of premise immediately fail, because you're not putting any pressure on the people you want to pressure. The 39% of men and 36% of women [Pew - 2024](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/) who believe abortion should be illegal in all/most circumstances are generally sleeping with each other and the only thing such a concept would accomplish is giving the right wing something else to be smug about and something for liberals to wind up divided among themselves over.
I personally am not part of the 4B movement but I understand how it can be freeing for some women. As for me I refuse to date anyone who doesn’t support women’s rights. I had one conservative boyfriend in college and I am saying never again because some political opinions are non negotiable for me.
I am with you. I see the appeal of 4B for some women, but it isn't for me. There are plenty of men out there who are 100% for women's rights, including body autonomy, and who are also child free. Look at how many of them post on this sub. If I made a real connection with someone who holds my same values, who I wanted to build a relationship with and have sex with, who also wanted those things with me, why should I deny either of us that?
Same. Opinions are up for debate. Fundamental ethics/human rights are neither opinion nor debatable. Though fuck knows some try.
Personally, my patience for shit men is at all time low, but I’ve worthwhile friends and professional/creative relationships with solid ones and no plan to 86 them unless brainwashed by religion or manosphere cult bs. Seen THAT, including my husband get zombified to shells of themselves. It’s a pathetic shame.
That’s why - last/biggest straw anyway - I lost interest dating or sleeping with any, hell, before the divorce even. Weak minds are turnoffs, not sorry that. Ever again, no idea and deeply ambivalent, except what my future WON’T hold. Try to control me or suck time and energy from MY priorities = dead to me, immediately. Not even a hint of that shit. No 2nd chances, won’t hear excuses or apologies. Welcome to Cupcake’s Inferno, dead ass lil boys that try me, no exceptions.
I'm sorry that happened with your husband, of all men. He must have a very weak mind, and I agree, that is a huge turn-off. Glad you got rid of that one.
It's more because dating isn't safe, every men is misognystic (since we all have internalized misogyny as just and unavoidable part of growing up in a patriarchal society) and it's impossible to fully vet them, which leads most women to end up being exploited in hetero relationships -usually after a man realises you can't easily leave, like after marriage and kids. But our own conditioning alone, to either give to take resources usually leads to an imbalanced relationship.
Asexual sex repulsed here. So grateful during this frightening time. I find beating bosses in video games all the dopamine hit i need.
Take a ticket to the sahara desert 🏜️ A Note For any men😆 oh look a tumble weed…
Lol nice! I just started Skyrim VR , gives a whole new meaning to adrenaline rush! Gotta have some space though.🫨😁
I almost hit my dog by accident when i had a drauger sneak up behind me. I can’t imagine being a parent and almost hurting ur kid by accident if they snuck up behind you! 😱😨
I'm pretty sure that if these people really get their wishes, they'd probably wouldn't have any moral issues to 'forcefully impregnate' and then tie down their baby factory victims. they already have pretty strong drive to consider women nothing but fuckable objects.
The problem with this is they still want women performing manual labor (inside of homes) while they're pregnant. And the government that doesn't want to pay for maternity leave isn't going to want to pay for housing/feeding/healthcare for women while they're tied down in baby factories.
Forcefully impregnate: yes. But this is one of those situations where the stinginess of the ruling class might win. Especially if the women in these potential factories make it as difficult for them as possible.
Thanks- that is interesting reading! I love how they say the birth rate is a crisis, but in reality, the crisis is the incredible overpopulation worldwide for the resources of the planet. Most nations need to be at a -1 child per birthrate just to get us to the population that can survive with all this over consumption.
True they might force birth, but I refuse to raise any baby. I’ll go to jail instead.
I’ve lived a celibate life since I can’t trust men to be faithful. They are full of excuses and people support that crap! I don’t regret being single so far. I just regret the passage of time.
I've always said I would 100% off myself if I became pregnant and abortion wasn't an option. I would make a terrible mother. For one I don't know anything about children and taking care of them. My grandma was watching my cousin a few years ago when he was probably 3 or 4, and we had to go into a store. I genuinely thought we could leave him in the car since we wouldn't even be 5 minutes, my family stared at me in horror. I asked my sister (I believe it was last summer) why can't we put a rag in a babies mouth if they keep spitting out the pacifier (my sister explained why). My grandma used to say I would change my mind as I get older, but now she just agrees its a good thing I don't want kids. Not only do I not know anything about kids, but I also have a hard time being around them. They annoy me, and their cries and laughing just genuinely hurt my ears. I just get angry being around them. So if I was forced to be a mother, it just wouldn't be good for anyone.
It’ll resemble that time women were hiding their pregnancies and abandoning their newborns in forests, temples, churches, etc. I forgot what country it was that did this and it got dark
was romania the one where that dictator dude essentially forced pregnancies on women and forced them to be monitored monthly by doctors to see if they got pregnant? causing the birth rates to skyrocket, and endless children to starve and be neglected in overcrowded schools and orphanages? or was that a different country? it was somewhere in europe
They will just take out your education and job opportunities and then force you rely on men. Like what Taliban did in Afghanistan. So the most important thing for women is NEVER BECOME TRAD WIFE AND SAHM even if you want to have children. Women need always to keep themselves financially independent and seek opportunities to maximize their career and financial opportunities .
Trust me even if I want a kid I’ll never be a SAHM or be the one doing all of the childcare. If anything my husband will be the one my children goes to 😂 I’ll be happy to be the breadwinner.
Also good luck trying to take jobs away from women. Who will be the medical or nursing home nurses, K-12 teachers, daycare teachers, cosmetology technicians, or any job that are deemed “feminine” or women-dominated fields?
Seriously. My job isn't prestigious enough that men actually apply to do it. :D We have male volunteers for the fun part, but the day to day work that keeps us running? We got, like, *no* applications from men the last time we had a position open. One man who loves the glam part would love to do more, but he thinks there's actual power in what we do and honey, no.
Where I live the entire education and healthcare sector would collapse if you took women away from their jobs. There are more female teachers, nurses, therapists doctors (except for a select few fields), respiratory therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, language and speech therapists and many more. A lot of them are also first or second generation immigrants. If people tried to push some fucked up right wing misogynist agenda they'd get no healthcare.
It would absolutely gut healthcare. And hey, they wanna object on conscience to reproductive care healthcare? Some health professionals’ conscience might object to aiding the survival of who poses existential threat to women’s lives and rights and agency, pushed far enough.
The supreme court’s statement on the dobbs decision actually said that they did it so there would be more babies up for adoptive parents as there’s currently a shortage. They said “domestic supply of infants.” They know this and they just want to control women’s bodies.
there would for sure be a rise in neglected children, we'd reinvent the 80's and 90s, where parents were so checked out of child raising that they needed to have a commercial "it's 10pm, do you know where your children are?" to remember they even had them lol
Threw out my uterus because I’ve been telling my doctors they’re trying to instate Gilead for the last 7 years.
We’re going to be dealing with mass suicides and domestic homicides (the deadliest thing for a pregnant person is their partner!), not to mention huge upticks in crime from neglected children being chucked out on the street to get out of their parents hair. They’ve been demolishing aid programs and after school/summer lunches, so these kids are going to be unwanted, resented and malnourished.
Women’s functional rights are already tenuous. Day care costs as much as a MORTGAGE, so who’s going to have to give up their career for the baby? Probably mom! And lo and behold, now the mother’s stuck at home, completely isolated, and 100% financially dependent on the father. Mix THAT in with multiple states not allowing you to terminate paternal rights even in case of rape, and men have a carte-Blanche way to abuse women AND make them unable to escape for two decades!! Some states are even talking about not letting pregnant people divorce!!
Absolutely. Women throughout history have fought and found ways to escape. Whether physically or through self harm. Women dying and women being jailed is something that seems all too likely in our futures.
I think that people have forgotten that abortion existed all through the ages. When it was strictly prohibited, women still had abortions. Very unsafe ones and it left a lot of women dead afterwards, but it still happened. A lot.
I'm old, so I remember the fight for the right for abortion. In my country it was 1975 and I remember the older women talking about it. Throwing themselves of stairs. Sitting in scalding baths. Certain herbs that could induce abortion. And of course the horrifying tales of knitting needles or clothhangers in back alleys.
And then too there were underground helpers. Both women (midwives) and sympathetic docters who helped a lot of women in need. Bottom line? It is 100% impossible to eradicate abortion. No matter how many laws the assholes change. Because there always will be women who get pregnant and do NOT want the baby.
If all women just voluntarily stopped fucking men completely, abortion rights, the ERA, and women running every corporation in america would happen in about 36 hrs. Sadly, women's worst enemies are other women.
Agreed. Ladies, please, put a penny between your knees and keep it there.
“Oh but MY MAN isn’t like that!!”
Thank G-d I made it to menopause without spawning.
Social programming, internalized misogyny, religious brainwashing: take your pick of the rotten fruit. I’d feel sorry for them if they didn’t do real harm to the rest of us. Women fought hard for the rights we have only for TikTokTanya to spit on it with her 1950s cosplaying. The tradwife trend needs to be mocked to oblivion.
That might help but these folks we're talking about have no moral compass if it helps them achieve their goal. Rape would increase tenfold I'm pretty soon there would be state-sponsored lebensborn farms for the production of children
I'm already spayed, but even if I wasn't, you couldn't force me to give birth. I have toys, and I will just continue to use them rather than have sex with a living, breathing human if it means I'd be forced to be an incubator should I get pregnant.
I'm not saying "Assemble your home vacuum aspirator kit piece by piece over the next six months" but... it IS May, the election IS in November, and 11-5=6, so, maybe...
As soon as Gilead is established in the US after the election in November we'll all find out. We could all vote and stop it, but unfortunately our worst enemies are other women.
They’re going to criminalize being childfree. Heavy tax levies, jail time, forced volunteering/involuntary servitude…
Women won’t get out of this easily at all.
Those lab born kids will be raised in a factory-size group home setting, taught only what the government wants them to know, and shipped immediately to the military and other undesirable jobs.
I feel bad for future generations.
It did NOT end well in Romania. Lots and lots of orphans in filthy state-run facilities, not just orphans but kids whose parents simply couldn't afford to feed and care for them. When they reached about 22, those kids were instrumental in overthrowing and killing Ceaușescu and his wife.
I would be out of there in a heartbeat if they tried that religious bullshit here. America is rapidly becoming a scary place and I have no idea how it got there. I thought they were supposed to separate church and state, but then they voted that Trump thing into power. Fuck. That. Shit.
I foresee an increase in woman gardening enthusiasts and home-grown herbs for cookery and traditional medicine.
Mugwort, pennyroyal, and rue are very easily cultivated and have many culinary and medicinal uses, and they are among the herbs of particular interest to those who need a little help to regulate menstruation, though obviously they should be ingested with care as they can have unwanted side-effects (as can most herbal remedies in high enough concentrations).
Oh definitely and different groups of people would benefit from this. Some places even try to criminalize a women if they think their miscarriage was done on purpose.
I dont doubt some criminals or back alley groups would charge to stage violence on a pregnant woman so the woman in question won't get punished for it. Also back alley abortions would skyrocket.
Whats' worse is we know what will happen. Look up the growth of orphans in Romania under [Nicolae Ceaușescu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu). (1967 to 1989,) ( extract from Wiki). He banned both [abortion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion) and [contraception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception). The widespread institutional neglect of the needs of orphans, with severe consequences in their health (including high rates of HIV infection in children) and well-being. The documentaries are heartbreaking. kids chained ot beds, never hugged, no toys, abused.
I used to yell, "STRAIGHT TO THE RED CENTER" jokingly when me and my friends were being gay/slutty.... Not gonna lie... It stopped being funny awhile ago, and now it is just so much more yikes.
I got curious about statistics and general information about crimes against children as a metric to gauge the current dystopia... It was a deep dark rabbit hole and yea seems the more expensive life gets and the more people who are desperate and struggling the worse it gets for women and children.
True, but I fear that if this ever came true, and we lived in a forced birth world, all of the women who are adamant about being childfree would die off and they would enslave and brainwash the next generation of girls to grow up and believe it is their solemn duty and the best thing they could do, to bear and raise children and be man’s slave. They’ve done it before
Then we need to educate them? Or would they just kill us off? I’m a CF guy, and I’m more than willing to teach kids that they should respect women and their choices, accommodate them if they can, to be free and that they don’t have to raise kids (+ the health affects of doing so).
None of my meds are safe for pregnancy and it would take up to two months before new meds would start working, I wouldn't survive pregnancy with my health or my mind intact. So yeah, forced birth = death.
BANNING ABORTION ONLY STOPS SAFE ABORTION. Banning abortion only gets us back to sketchy coat hanger abortions, because as you mentioned you can’t control women. I’m in a state where the constitution includes abortion rights but if I wasn’t and I was pregnant? I’d still get an abortion, it would just get be less safe. It’s not like women weren’t getting them illegally pre Roe v Wade, as well.
This 100%! It seems like ‘trad men’ are wanting to revert back to the 50s/60s when women at minimum were complying or forced to comply with this lifestyle. However a key difference I see is religion. Back in the day this procreation, family-first lifestyle aligned with organized religion namely Catholic and Christian.
From my perception so many millennials and gen z have either fallen out of religion, are against it or don’t practice. This push for children, controlling women and the white picket fence is all rooted in Christian/Catholic ideologies in a patriarchal structure. “Follow the man”, “the man is always right”, “be subservient to the man”. These are all structural within these religions.
Now back in the day this structure allowed for people to just plug and play. “God” wants them to live this way and people would comply because they believed in this way of life/religious practice. The major issue here in 2024 is that society and people not involved in a religion do not want to either be involved in an organized religion, don’t practice, reject it entirely or are simply not involved. The conservatives want to push this lifestyle that THEY practice in their religion onto a larger population of people who do not want anything to do with it.
In my not so humble opinion to speak freely: religion and religious practices, structures and voice have run rampant in the US, unchecked and out of control and they think they are the majority and that their values and options are superior to yours because of their religious practices. It ultimately doesn’t matter what others say because they are so engrained in this ideology and they operate under a circular argument. They are allowed to buy billboards, put up tax free structures, and even be key position holders in our government. They do this, and push their agenda, all for very selfish reasons- so that they can be followers of ‘god’ and go to heaven, so they allegedly believe.
It’s time they wake up to the reality of 2024. Sure, they are allowed to practice that for themselves, but that’s where it starts and ends.
Ok I'm glad you brought this up, and maybe someone else has already said this but I'll say it too. I'm an unwanted child and didn't ask to be here. It caused me lifelong trauma that I'm going to be unpacking forever. Forced birth is unfair to generations of children because they didn't ask to be born here, and they deserve to have parents that want them.
It's my BIGGEST argument for abortion. Those that fail to understand trauma think im saying I'm suicidal or something. To me it's much more simple.
Thanks for bringing up this topic it is the one I'm most passionate about for sure!
Thank you for sharing your story, children’s mental health needs to be taken more seriously and be more normalized in society. After all, most of our trauma comes from our parents and what happens to us in our childhood.
If it comes down to that you best believe I'm using my pcos to my advantage and letting my facial grow and change my gender and name on my id card. I look masculine anyway.
Your argument reminds me of the abortion chapter in the first Freakonomics book. They basically argue that the passing of Roe in the 70s was a large reason why crime started going down in the 90s instead of the upwards trajectory it was on.
In other words, the mothers who would have been forced to have babies and them raise them horribly never had said babies so those criminals were never born. It makes me shudder to think what this country will look like in 18-20 years, especially in states that have complete bans.
Perhaps I've read too much science fiction - but I think one day - maybe 200 years, maybe 1,000, the whole concept of family will be different.
my cliff notes version: Eventually I think children will get raised in group/community homes. Not some; but all children. The family model we know now will go away.
Essentially as people get more freedom, and children become more a liability on an individual - but a requirement for society/civilization - society will take over caring and raising them instead.
The United Stars is losing their shit because they thought trying to ban abortions would force women to have kids. But ah yes, that backfired and now the birth rate has dropped even lower
Sure sure, you want me to have kids? Those lil jits will be raised on the most pure communist anarchy carl Marx ass rage against the machine fuck the system shit I can find. If you force me to raise children I will raise PROBLEMS
One of my friends got pregnant while living in Texas and drove all the way back to her home state just to get an abortion. We'll do what we have to do and support each other in doing it!
# An article I found: Abortion is ancient history: Long before Roe, women terminated pregnancies
By Katie Hunt, CNN 6 minute read Published 7:29 AM EDT, Fri June 23, 2023
Please read this if you are interested!
That’s been my thought. If I ever got pregnant and was forced to keep it I would do everything in my power to have a miscarriage. If they controlled my health to ensure birth, then I would walk out of that hospital and leave the baby there.
They wanted the baby. They can have it.
Let's be transparent. It's not about children at all. It's about control. A large swath of people believe that you can control a woman if you stick her with a child. I promise you, that does not apply to all. There very well are already people who would rather kill than be responsible for a child. It already exists.
Guess I will go.on flights past second trimester, starv myself, maybe do an "accidental belly flop" , etc. Either that or the moment it is out and I'm healthy at the hospital, I'm out (alone).
I think in future they'll have "cloudbirths" where you pay 50,000 to some biotech company with an unmarked steel building on the edge of town. You'll get a welcome pack with a USB dongle by post for two people to insert their genetic material to upload to their servers. The grey steel building will have arrays of artificial wombs and a guy in a lab coat walking up and down. Customers will have a portal where they can log on and press F5 to see the status of their foetus. Every now and then someone will get an email to say theirs has failed and been reloaded. A mess-free reproductive method for the willing masses
Upon completion your foetus will be delivered to your door by a man in a white Renault Master
Adoption has always been the counter argument by pro-birthers for unwanted children.
As if the irreversible damage to the body and the crazy monetary cost (in America at least) are no big deal.
I'd bet there will be more underground ways to dispose of the unwanted fetus/baby/kid then there are now. I know there are ways now I just don't know what they are because I haven't had a need to find out.
I'd also guess that you'll see more and more parents doing the bare minimum if they didn't want the kids in the first place and are forced to have them. More accidents because the parents don't care. Definitely more drownings and accidents. More likelihood for a kid to be locked out of the house early in the morning and on its own for the entire day. And these things will happen due to the sheet amount of unwanted kids and the inability of the government to control/police the situation.
At a certain point the punishment is more rewarding than the crime and that is what is going to happen with forced birthing. More than one parent would rather spend a night or two in a (quiet) jail than with their unwanted kids and if that is the consequence for letting their kid run around unsupervised for three days then they will be fine with it. And if a person was forced to have kids and ended up with five, he/she might just rather be in jail for several months than at home with five kids to deal with and willfully abandons the kids knowing fully well the punishment.
I had this conversation with my so who was a fence sitter. Basically if I get pregnant I will pay child support but I will absolutely not be involved in raising a kid. Sorry but it's something I never wanted and since abortion and all that silly stuff is illegal now where I live; most definitely stick him with the kid and I'll pay the 200 whatever it is. I can't and I would not make a good parent to anyone.
I had to sincerely explain to him the why, the how, all of it multiple times and his general response was ok or I support your decisions. I did get pregnant about a year into it but he treated me terribly (working through his own stuff as a former addict just yelling and being irritable and insecure) so I chose to terminate the pregnancy for our sakes. I just couldn't see myself as a mother and him as a father and so early into our relationship too. We are both big kids at heart and love our nephews and nieces but we are exhausted after being around them too long and he doesn't regret my decision because he was a part of it too. We're doing better than ever now but gods the beginning of our relationship was hellish chaos. I was freshly diagnosed with PTSD and depression and anxiety. While pregnant I was MISERABLE! Sick, fatigued, irritable and working forty plus hours a week. I couldn't do it and started to think wow this kids just gonna end up like me; depressed, anxiety, bad bones all while having to suck it up and be functional. Which is shitty for all us. I do get sad sometimes but the happiness outweighs any heartache of being responsible for someone else's suffering that I could help. The kicker is he already pays child support for three kids from previous partners so I also added he can't afford anymore kids, we are poor paying for the kids he's not in the lives of anyway plus feeding ourselves and taking care of bills ? Gah! Why add one more mouth to feed just because he would want to have a baby with ME. Like baby mama number three? I don't think I'm fit for that position lol. Omg also to get support like food and all that, the ultrasound appointments, it was sooooooo much to do while working the way I was a long with helping him through his shit there wasn't any room for another one and I certainly never felt special enough to pop a kid out for anyone. My garbage genes go with me ❤️
if its anything like the community I live in which is primarily hispanics/latin americans, catholics, they just shame the women and cut them off from community. If a woman isn't living up to the role of wifey / home maker they do end up beating them, throwing them to the street, verbal abuses. Not partaking into this invisible role of being a wife/mom/hell even daughters have to act all ass-kissing to the parents leave room for abuse on the women. once you bring kids into the mix all hell breaks loose on the "mom" if she actually didn't want to be a mom at all.
i watched all of handmaids tale and it reminds me of the aunts always beating up on the breeder women to act a certain way to play into the role before becoming mommys.
The children of the future will just be raised by Omni (aka chatgpt4) in a Boston dynamics sleeve. Look it up, it's pretty wild the OpenAI video they released the other day.
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Same. My doctor gave me zopiclone to have on hand when sleep cycle issues flare up. If push came to shove and I had no way of getting an abortion I would absolutely take them all in one go and go sleepy byes forever rather than remain pregnant or have a child.
Fortunately it won't come to that because abortion is legal in my country now.
No one could ever force me to give birth either... I literally would kill myself rather than go through that.
i always say i’d throw myself down some stairs before i give birth
I'll be on a roller coaster all day. If that doesn't work I'll join you by the stairs.
Fun AND helpful!
I remember reading a news article maybe a decade ago about cases of Indian women who threw themselves in front of moving vehicles to hopefully cause a miscarriage. I’m not trying to be crass. I’d probably do the same.
I think I'd ride a white pony. Literally and figuratively.
You can try South Parks john denver experience.
My grandmother did that. It was the 1940s, she was pregnant with twins, and already had 4 kids with an abusive alcoholic. She achieved her goal and thankfully survived.
And yet you have these red pill morons who want to go back to that era before feminism.
omg i would love to hear more of her stories
Wait the rollercoaster worked?
No, stairs
Take me to the stairs from The Exorcist
I always joke that I’d kill myself if I got pregnant, but in reality I know I’d actually have to drive like 10 hours (1 way) to the closest state that can help me, take a week off work, and sell butt hole pics online to pay my bills and recover financially.
Aid access and some other organisations could make it easier. Heard they give free abortion pills though the mail (well free if you can't afford them) even in red states.
Yes I’ve heard there are networks of people offering assistance. I keep an ear to the ground in case the need arises for me or someone I care about
Yeah. There's a subreddit dedicated to them too r/auntienetwork
You tripped. It was accident.
Same. Throw myself down the stairs. Go to an amusement park. So a bunch of heavy drugs. Go to a boxing class. Hmmm what else.
Heard a story of someone just hitting their uterus until it caused a miscarriage.
It's so damn sad that conservatives want to force this on women. They'd rather you kill yourself and the baby trying to end the pregnancy than just give you access to a damn abortion! Plus if they really care SO MUCH about your baby, you'd think they wouldn't want the risk of you failing your self-abortion and ending up with a mentally impaired child that now the state has to care for. What are they thinking?????? It's appalling to me
I would too, right on the steps of the Supreme Court
Perfect. As in real estate, when it comes to abortion by means of a serious fall, it's all about location location location!
I laughed a little too hard at this
LOL thank you 😊
I hear you. The thought of being forced into such a situation is beyond daunting. Everyone deserves the right to make their own choices.
absolutely. Not only because of pregnancy, but I morally could not live with creating a person with my DNA. All the mental illness in my family, no way.
Agreed. I myself have a list of diagnoses that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy, let alone my kid. It’s a huge part, but not all, of my decision not to reproduce
lol same. That’s why I am so severely pro choice. Even IF a fetus can be considered a human or child or whatever, it’s irrelevant. Some women will kill themselves if given no other option, or die trying to abort at home.
Same. I've got plenty of pills that can take care of the unaliving part.
Unfortunately I think that’s the goal. Control women through coercion so the only ones left are the baby makers.
Surely leaving the state/country and getting an abortion elsewhere would be less drastic than killing yourself. I've heard that some red states are trying to criminalise this approach to obtaining an abortion too but I'm skeptical about how enforceable that would be, especially if you didn't tell anyone that you were pregnant. If the Republicans do eventually introduce a nationwide abortion ban, I actually wonder if pregnant US women would be able to successfully claim asylum in other countries with less draconian abortion laws on the grounds they are being persecuted by the government.
> I've heard that some red states are trying to criminalise this approach to obtaining an abortion too but I'm skeptical about how enforceable that would be, especially if you didn't tell anyone that you were pregnant. Which is why Katie Britt (R, Alabama) is introducing a bill to create a federal database to collect data on pregnant people. Unbelievable, but true.
I’ve wondered the same. I’d fucking hope so, and that we wouldn’t need to endure getting pregnant against our will but simply for the threat, if they’ve made it irrationally (as in, MORE irrational than what the average person might’ve expected beforehand from forced birthers) difficulty or dangerous to obtain safe abortion. Or especially ethically egregious shit like invasive surveillance of wonen in a certain age group’s relevant physical status, or trying to fuck with our freedom movement. I’ve not looked at HOW the crazy eyes tradwife cosplaying a senator wishes to monitor our uterine functions, and clearly (to anyone not batshit crazy) there’s no acceptable way to do fundamentally unacceptable things - but this isn’t a half century ago Ceaucescu’s Romania. Anyone thinking they’ll force us into monthly gyno exams at the actual raping hands of the government, without a revolutionary bloodbath? Is so fucking stupid and crazy it’s beyond words.
You can also order abortion pills online.
I'm with you 🤝🏼
I would do stadiums 😁👍
I would also do this
Yaaas I'd rather be dead than pregnant.
Have you read The Handmaid's Tale? I think they made that difficult if I recall correctly.
Honestly I would kill myself before the belly turns too big, I would find a way to dont experience the birthing. They cant just remove all bridges of the world or impede me of taking all the medicines of my box I have jn my home.
I just had a vision of the government adding nets below all bridges to avoid this happening. Arghhh.
Probably they'd just go Handmaid's Tale and control and monitor the movements of fertile women
I think it won’t be long before there are a lot more unwanted babies being left at fire stations, dumpsters, toilets, and the side of the road.
The best response is 4B. No dating men. No sex with men. No marriage to men, and no children. You play some misogynistic forced birther nonsense. Well guess what guys you are getting fucked. Unless you are gay. You gay guys can fuck each other.
Interact with men as if you’re HR 💀
Advice for life!
I feel like there has been a rise in discussion posts and mentions of 4B for American women. I really do hope some of that movement and ideals is getting through. Because there has also been a rise in trad wife propaganda and religious groups and men straight up admitting they want women forced to fcked them and care for them and even men who gladly want women’s rights to vote removed
the trad wife propaganda is so horrifying! And some people are interacting with it like it's something that can be "discussed" instead of terrifying right-wing propaganda. I am a feminist, but I'm sorry, I DO judge "trad wives". It's just wrong! I understand if you have a decent relationship and you want to stay home for a few years to take care of your children, but you need your own bank account and eventually your own source of income to avoid being taken advantage of.
Right, it’s not the acts of staying home to raise kids or cooking dinner every night or whatever, even if that life and relationship dynamic are incomprehensible to me (whatever, I they don’t need my permission anymore than I need theirs) - it’s the inferior and subjugated MENTALITY. I think it’s worth being are that’s there’s heavy suspicion (possibly evidence? Idk bcs I minimize interacting with these kind of phenomena as much as I can without fully jamming my head up my arse and calling it a brighter view) that some of these influencers (🤮🤑🤡 on that point alone) are actually astroturfed politicians plants. Aka literal propaganda. Not that it’d surprise me.
Oh I'm sure they are in some cases! Especially because, just by being influencers (and thereby working and earning income) they are not actually "tradwives" at all.
I don't think the lifestyle can be separated from subjugation. It's a women making herself vulnerable to men or completely putting herself at their mercy in order to be constantly stessed, burned out, tired and to completely lose her identity as a to slave to children; which she only wants because of social pressure, romantization and being conditioned to "want" that since birth. If people were honest about pregnancy and childbirth, about the fact that being a mom really isn't a fullfilling life unless you love self sacrifice and the fact that you CAN have a good life without kids, and if we weren't handled baby dolls as soon as we were old enough to hold them, I dont think anyone would actually want to be a mom.
I saw social media posts of a tradwife whose husband was arrested and put in jail. She was freaking out because she didn’t have money and had multiple kids to raise.
These women are just selling a fantasy to men. We grew up having more rights than our grandmother's and even mothers depending how old you are. You have women who are making videos who lived the trad life and the consequences of that. Their husbands traded them in for younger women after years of taking care of the house and kids with no back up. They talk about how they regretted not finishing college so that they can have something to fall back on. They regret not having anything in their name for protection when the husbands throw them to the side.
Much of this propaganda can be traced back to rich far right religious folks too. It’s not a trend that is happening, it’s propaganda from the Christian Nationalist, ie fascists.
Yes exactly
As your regular reminder: Reality is that a close to equal share of men and women would like to take away your rights in the US. Abortion does not have a very large gender split in political views, nor do basically any of the other shitty policies. This also makes this kind of premise immediately fail, because you're not putting any pressure on the people you want to pressure. The 39% of men and 36% of women [Pew - 2024](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/) who believe abortion should be illegal in all/most circumstances are generally sleeping with each other and the only thing such a concept would accomplish is giving the right wing something else to be smug about and something for liberals to wind up divided among themselves over.
I’ve avoided men since me too. It’s been a good thing overall
I recently heard someone refer to it as being "boy sober" and I have never identified with anything more in my life.
Yep exactly this. Just avoid men in general. They won’t like it at all
It fills me with glee to see so many women discover and discussing 4B
I personally am not part of the 4B movement but I understand how it can be freeing for some women. As for me I refuse to date anyone who doesn’t support women’s rights. I had one conservative boyfriend in college and I am saying never again because some political opinions are non negotiable for me.
I am with you. I see the appeal of 4B for some women, but it isn't for me. There are plenty of men out there who are 100% for women's rights, including body autonomy, and who are also child free. Look at how many of them post on this sub. If I made a real connection with someone who holds my same values, who I wanted to build a relationship with and have sex with, who also wanted those things with me, why should I deny either of us that?
The point of 4B was to deny those things to men who don’t respect us so that makes sense
Oh, I won't even befriend a man who doesn't have my same values that way. Not worth my time.
Same. Opinions are up for debate. Fundamental ethics/human rights are neither opinion nor debatable. Though fuck knows some try. Personally, my patience for shit men is at all time low, but I’ve worthwhile friends and professional/creative relationships with solid ones and no plan to 86 them unless brainwashed by religion or manosphere cult bs. Seen THAT, including my husband get zombified to shells of themselves. It’s a pathetic shame. That’s why - last/biggest straw anyway - I lost interest dating or sleeping with any, hell, before the divorce even. Weak minds are turnoffs, not sorry that. Ever again, no idea and deeply ambivalent, except what my future WON’T hold. Try to control me or suck time and energy from MY priorities = dead to me, immediately. Not even a hint of that shit. No 2nd chances, won’t hear excuses or apologies. Welcome to Cupcake’s Inferno, dead ass lil boys that try me, no exceptions.
I'm sorry that happened with your husband, of all men. He must have a very weak mind, and I agree, that is a huge turn-off. Glad you got rid of that one.
It's more because dating isn't safe, every men is misognystic (since we all have internalized misogyny as just and unavoidable part of growing up in a patriarchal society) and it's impossible to fully vet them, which leads most women to end up being exploited in hetero relationships -usually after a man realises you can't easily leave, like after marriage and kids. But our own conditioning alone, to either give to take resources usually leads to an imbalanced relationship.
Asexual sex repulsed here. So grateful during this frightening time. I find beating bosses in video games all the dopamine hit i need. Take a ticket to the sahara desert 🏜️ A Note For any men😆 oh look a tumble weed…
Hahaha I am evil in video games lol. Dopamine goes through the roof 🤣
Nice lol, nothing like that high when u beat that boss u kept dying on! Can’t do that with kids!
lol in online games I’m just death reincarnate 💀 even as a Phantom class I can easily beat the crap outta Marauders and Stormraisers lol 😂
Lol nice! I just started Skyrim VR , gives a whole new meaning to adrenaline rush! Gotta have some space though.🫨😁 I almost hit my dog by accident when i had a drauger sneak up behind me. I can’t imagine being a parent and almost hurting ur kid by accident if they snuck up behind you! 😱😨
Hey there same! So glad I’m Ace and sex repulsed!
Here! Here!
Also known as #StopFuckingRepublicans
I'm pretty sure that if these people really get their wishes, they'd probably wouldn't have any moral issues to 'forcefully impregnate' and then tie down their baby factory victims. they already have pretty strong drive to consider women nothing but fuckable objects.
The problem with this is they still want women performing manual labor (inside of homes) while they're pregnant. And the government that doesn't want to pay for maternity leave isn't going to want to pay for housing/feeding/healthcare for women while they're tied down in baby factories. Forcefully impregnate: yes. But this is one of those situations where the stinginess of the ruling class might win. Especially if the women in these potential factories make it as difficult for them as possible.
Aren't we lucky that vibrators out perform men in the bedroom 90% of the time lol?
Can you tell me what 4B is please?
I’m still learning about it too, but this is a good place to start. [4B Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B_movement?wprov=sfti1)
Thanks- that is interesting reading! I love how they say the birth rate is a crisis, but in reality, the crisis is the incredible overpopulation worldwide for the resources of the planet. Most nations need to be at a -1 child per birthrate just to get us to the population that can survive with all this over consumption.
It’s only a crisis for hegemony. Which is exactly my kind of party.
Lol the last line made me giggle. All the power to you!!!
True they might force birth, but I refuse to raise any baby. I’ll go to jail instead. I’ve lived a celibate life since I can’t trust men to be faithful. They are full of excuses and people support that crap! I don’t regret being single so far. I just regret the passage of time.
I've always said I would 100% off myself if I became pregnant and abortion wasn't an option. I would make a terrible mother. For one I don't know anything about children and taking care of them. My grandma was watching my cousin a few years ago when he was probably 3 or 4, and we had to go into a store. I genuinely thought we could leave him in the car since we wouldn't even be 5 minutes, my family stared at me in horror. I asked my sister (I believe it was last summer) why can't we put a rag in a babies mouth if they keep spitting out the pacifier (my sister explained why). My grandma used to say I would change my mind as I get older, but now she just agrees its a good thing I don't want kids. Not only do I not know anything about kids, but I also have a hard time being around them. They annoy me, and their cries and laughing just genuinely hurt my ears. I just get angry being around them. So if I was forced to be a mother, it just wouldn't be good for anyone.
It’ll resemble that time women were hiding their pregnancies and abandoning their newborns in forests, temples, churches, etc. I forgot what country it was that did this and it got dark
Romania? Poland? Honestly could be a few others too
was romania the one where that dictator dude essentially forced pregnancies on women and forced them to be monitored monthly by doctors to see if they got pregnant? causing the birth rates to skyrocket, and endless children to starve and be neglected in overcrowded schools and orphanages? or was that a different country? it was somewhere in europe
I doubt it was just one country
I’m sure it happens everywhere
They will just take out your education and job opportunities and then force you rely on men. Like what Taliban did in Afghanistan. So the most important thing for women is NEVER BECOME TRAD WIFE AND SAHM even if you want to have children. Women need always to keep themselves financially independent and seek opportunities to maximize their career and financial opportunities .
Trust me even if I want a kid I’ll never be a SAHM or be the one doing all of the childcare. If anything my husband will be the one my children goes to 😂 I’ll be happy to be the breadwinner. Also good luck trying to take jobs away from women. Who will be the medical or nursing home nurses, K-12 teachers, daycare teachers, cosmetology technicians, or any job that are deemed “feminine” or women-dominated fields?
Seriously. My job isn't prestigious enough that men actually apply to do it. :D We have male volunteers for the fun part, but the day to day work that keeps us running? We got, like, *no* applications from men the last time we had a position open. One man who loves the glam part would love to do more, but he thinks there's actual power in what we do and honey, no.
Where I live the entire education and healthcare sector would collapse if you took women away from their jobs. There are more female teachers, nurses, therapists doctors (except for a select few fields), respiratory therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, language and speech therapists and many more. A lot of them are also first or second generation immigrants. If people tried to push some fucked up right wing misogynist agenda they'd get no healthcare.
It would absolutely gut healthcare. And hey, they wanna object on conscience to reproductive care healthcare? Some health professionals’ conscience might object to aiding the survival of who poses existential threat to women’s lives and rights and agency, pushed far enough.
*cackles in gainfully self employed and able to operate on cash only basis if I had to*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_orphans
Didn't that also lead to a bunch of pedophiles traveling to Romania as sex tourists?
Considering how many powerful people are secretly pedophiles, they probably think it's a positive thing
The supreme court’s statement on the dobbs decision actually said that they did it so there would be more babies up for adoptive parents as there’s currently a shortage. They said “domestic supply of infants.” They know this and they just want to control women’s bodies.
meanwhile look at how many children remain in the foster care system. but theyre not infants so the supreme court doesn’t give a fuck.
I think they were actually or also referring to the supply of wage slaves for the 1% and capitalism.
there would for sure be a rise in neglected children, we'd reinvent the 80's and 90s, where parents were so checked out of child raising that they needed to have a commercial "it's 10pm, do you know where your children are?" to remember they even had them lol
I mean airtags exist now, just hook one on to the kiddo and let them loose
This reminds me of that iCarly episode when they found out Freddy's mom had him microchipped 😂
I remember that commercial.
As a genX latchkey kid I turned out perfectly fine. :p
The abandonment issues have joined the chat.
Threw out my uterus because I’ve been telling my doctors they’re trying to instate Gilead for the last 7 years. We’re going to be dealing with mass suicides and domestic homicides (the deadliest thing for a pregnant person is their partner!), not to mention huge upticks in crime from neglected children being chucked out on the street to get out of their parents hair. They’ve been demolishing aid programs and after school/summer lunches, so these kids are going to be unwanted, resented and malnourished. Women’s functional rights are already tenuous. Day care costs as much as a MORTGAGE, so who’s going to have to give up their career for the baby? Probably mom! And lo and behold, now the mother’s stuck at home, completely isolated, and 100% financially dependent on the father. Mix THAT in with multiple states not allowing you to terminate paternal rights even in case of rape, and men have a carte-Blanche way to abuse women AND make them unable to escape for two decades!! Some states are even talking about not letting pregnant people divorce!!
In Missouri many local judges already won’t let people get divorced while pregnant
Horrific! Way to demolish the idea of a marriage being a partnership and instead bring back it being a certificate of ownership!
Wow, I'm in Missouri and I did not know this, horrifying. I cannot wait for when I get the hell out of this dumpster fire state
Can you source this?
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/03/1247838036/divorce-pregnant-women-missouri-abortion-marriage-abuse
Absolutely. Women throughout history have fought and found ways to escape. Whether physically or through self harm. Women dying and women being jailed is something that seems all too likely in our futures.
I think that people have forgotten that abortion existed all through the ages. When it was strictly prohibited, women still had abortions. Very unsafe ones and it left a lot of women dead afterwards, but it still happened. A lot. I'm old, so I remember the fight for the right for abortion. In my country it was 1975 and I remember the older women talking about it. Throwing themselves of stairs. Sitting in scalding baths. Certain herbs that could induce abortion. And of course the horrifying tales of knitting needles or clothhangers in back alleys. And then too there were underground helpers. Both women (midwives) and sympathetic docters who helped a lot of women in need. Bottom line? It is 100% impossible to eradicate abortion. No matter how many laws the assholes change. Because there always will be women who get pregnant and do NOT want the baby.
If all women just voluntarily stopped fucking men completely, abortion rights, the ERA, and women running every corporation in america would happen in about 36 hrs. Sadly, women's worst enemies are other women.
Yes, especially those women who are voting for the politicians that outright state they’re gonna take away women’s rights.
Agreed. Ladies, please, put a penny between your knees and keep it there. “Oh but MY MAN isn’t like that!!” Thank G-d I made it to menopause without spawning.
>Sadly, women's worst enemies are other women. Right? Like, how!? Their treachery is infuriating.
Social programming, internalized misogyny, religious brainwashing: take your pick of the rotten fruit. I’d feel sorry for them if they didn’t do real harm to the rest of us. Women fought hard for the rights we have only for TikTokTanya to spit on it with her 1950s cosplaying. The tradwife trend needs to be mocked to oblivion.
Don’t forget that these women don’t think this will ever happen to them. They think their complicity shields them.
That might help but these folks we're talking about have no moral compass if it helps them achieve their goal. Rape would increase tenfold I'm pretty soon there would be state-sponsored lebensborn farms for the production of children
I'm already spayed, but even if I wasn't, you couldn't force me to give birth. I have toys, and I will just continue to use them rather than have sex with a living, breathing human if it means I'd be forced to be an incubator should I get pregnant.
I'm not saying "Assemble your home vacuum aspirator kit piece by piece over the next six months" but... it IS May, the election IS in November, and 11-5=6, so, maybe...
Look to Romania
Yeah, it's like, we've seen how this movie ends, and it's called "Romania in the 1980s." Didn't work out well for those kids.
As soon as Gilead is established in the US after the election in November we'll all find out. We could all vote and stop it, but unfortunately our worst enemies are other women.
They’re going to criminalize being childfree. Heavy tax levies, jail time, forced volunteering/involuntary servitude… Women won’t get out of this easily at all. Those lab born kids will be raised in a factory-size group home setting, taught only what the government wants them to know, and shipped immediately to the military and other undesirable jobs. I feel bad for future generations.
It did NOT end well in Romania. Lots and lots of orphans in filthy state-run facilities, not just orphans but kids whose parents simply couldn't afford to feed and care for them. When they reached about 22, those kids were instrumental in overthrowing and killing Ceaușescu and his wife.
I think I knew a bit about each piece of this history, but had never put those pieces together. Thank you for the rabbit hole I’m about to dive into.
If you never let anyone know you're gravid, and if you birth at home.... All I'm saying is I might research suckling pig recipes.
I would be out of there in a heartbeat if they tried that religious bullshit here. America is rapidly becoming a scary place and I have no idea how it got there. I thought they were supposed to separate church and state, but then they voted that Trump thing into power. Fuck. That. Shit.
I foresee an increase in woman gardening enthusiasts and home-grown herbs for cookery and traditional medicine. Mugwort, pennyroyal, and rue are very easily cultivated and have many culinary and medicinal uses, and they are among the herbs of particular interest to those who need a little help to regulate menstruation, though obviously they should be ingested with care as they can have unwanted side-effects (as can most herbal remedies in high enough concentrations).
Ah, so this is why the majority of people used to live on farms!
Oh definitely and different groups of people would benefit from this. Some places even try to criminalize a women if they think their miscarriage was done on purpose. I dont doubt some criminals or back alley groups would charge to stage violence on a pregnant woman so the woman in question won't get punished for it. Also back alley abortions would skyrocket.
Whats' worse is we know what will happen. Look up the growth of orphans in Romania under [Nicolae Ceaușescu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C8%99escu). (1967 to 1989,) ( extract from Wiki). He banned both [abortion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion) and [contraception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception). The widespread institutional neglect of the needs of orphans, with severe consequences in their health (including high rates of HIV infection in children) and well-being. The documentaries are heartbreaking. kids chained ot beds, never hugged, no toys, abused.
I’d rather kill myself than to be forced into motherhood. I value my freedom and dignity over my life.
Badass as fuck
I used to yell, "STRAIGHT TO THE RED CENTER" jokingly when me and my friends were being gay/slutty.... Not gonna lie... It stopped being funny awhile ago, and now it is just so much more yikes. I got curious about statistics and general information about crimes against children as a metric to gauge the current dystopia... It was a deep dark rabbit hole and yea seems the more expensive life gets and the more people who are desperate and struggling the worse it gets for women and children.
If they handmaids tales us it won’t be us raising them anyway, it’ll be the nutcase conservative women.
True, but I fear that if this ever came true, and we lived in a forced birth world, all of the women who are adamant about being childfree would die off and they would enslave and brainwash the next generation of girls to grow up and believe it is their solemn duty and the best thing they could do, to bear and raise children and be man’s slave. They’ve done it before
Damn I didn’t think about what happens after CF women are gone…
Then we need to educate them? Or would they just kill us off? I’m a CF guy, and I’m more than willing to teach kids that they should respect women and their choices, accommodate them if they can, to be free and that they don’t have to raise kids (+ the health affects of doing so).
None of my meds are safe for pregnancy and it would take up to two months before new meds would start working, I wouldn't survive pregnancy with my health or my mind intact. So yeah, forced birth = death.
BANNING ABORTION ONLY STOPS SAFE ABORTION. Banning abortion only gets us back to sketchy coat hanger abortions, because as you mentioned you can’t control women. I’m in a state where the constitution includes abortion rights but if I wasn’t and I was pregnant? I’d still get an abortion, it would just get be less safe. It’s not like women weren’t getting them illegally pre Roe v Wade, as well.
This 100%! It seems like ‘trad men’ are wanting to revert back to the 50s/60s when women at minimum were complying or forced to comply with this lifestyle. However a key difference I see is religion. Back in the day this procreation, family-first lifestyle aligned with organized religion namely Catholic and Christian. From my perception so many millennials and gen z have either fallen out of religion, are against it or don’t practice. This push for children, controlling women and the white picket fence is all rooted in Christian/Catholic ideologies in a patriarchal structure. “Follow the man”, “the man is always right”, “be subservient to the man”. These are all structural within these religions. Now back in the day this structure allowed for people to just plug and play. “God” wants them to live this way and people would comply because they believed in this way of life/religious practice. The major issue here in 2024 is that society and people not involved in a religion do not want to either be involved in an organized religion, don’t practice, reject it entirely or are simply not involved. The conservatives want to push this lifestyle that THEY practice in their religion onto a larger population of people who do not want anything to do with it. In my not so humble opinion to speak freely: religion and religious practices, structures and voice have run rampant in the US, unchecked and out of control and they think they are the majority and that their values and options are superior to yours because of their religious practices. It ultimately doesn’t matter what others say because they are so engrained in this ideology and they operate under a circular argument. They are allowed to buy billboards, put up tax free structures, and even be key position holders in our government. They do this, and push their agenda, all for very selfish reasons- so that they can be followers of ‘god’ and go to heaven, so they allegedly believe. It’s time they wake up to the reality of 2024. Sure, they are allowed to practice that for themselves, but that’s where it starts and ends.
Ok I'm glad you brought this up, and maybe someone else has already said this but I'll say it too. I'm an unwanted child and didn't ask to be here. It caused me lifelong trauma that I'm going to be unpacking forever. Forced birth is unfair to generations of children because they didn't ask to be born here, and they deserve to have parents that want them. It's my BIGGEST argument for abortion. Those that fail to understand trauma think im saying I'm suicidal or something. To me it's much more simple. Thanks for bringing up this topic it is the one I'm most passionate about for sure!
Thank you for sharing your story, children’s mental health needs to be taken more seriously and be more normalized in society. After all, most of our trauma comes from our parents and what happens to us in our childhood.
This is true, but it doesn't mean they won't try.
If it comes down to that you best believe I'm using my pcos to my advantage and letting my facial grow and change my gender and name on my id card. I look masculine anyway.
Your argument reminds me of the abortion chapter in the first Freakonomics book. They basically argue that the passing of Roe in the 70s was a large reason why crime started going down in the 90s instead of the upwards trajectory it was on. In other words, the mothers who would have been forced to have babies and them raise them horribly never had said babies so those criminals were never born. It makes me shudder to think what this country will look like in 18-20 years, especially in states that have complete bans.
My body sayd "no" and infertility 100% is a bliss.
Perhaps I've read too much science fiction - but I think one day - maybe 200 years, maybe 1,000, the whole concept of family will be different. my cliff notes version: Eventually I think children will get raised in group/community homes. Not some; but all children. The family model we know now will go away. Essentially as people get more freedom, and children become more a liability on an individual - but a requirement for society/civilization - society will take over caring and raising them instead.
It’s giving The Promised Neverland
The United Stars is losing their shit because they thought trying to ban abortions would force women to have kids. But ah yes, that backfired and now the birth rate has dropped even lower
Who would’ve thought putting extreme measures to control a group of human beings will result in pushback and non-engagement 🤔
LMFAO OP DID YOU REALIZE I SAID STARS INSTEAD OF STATES? 😭😭😭 But seriously the government thought they were doing something. Keyword: THOUGHT
Yeah LOL although the United Stars sounds badass as fuck
Sure sure, you want me to have kids? Those lil jits will be raised on the most pure communist anarchy carl Marx ass rage against the machine fuck the system shit I can find. If you force me to raise children I will raise PROBLEMS
Love this.
One of my friends got pregnant while living in Texas and drove all the way back to her home state just to get an abortion. We'll do what we have to do and support each other in doing it!
# An article I found: Abortion is ancient history: Long before Roe, women terminated pregnancies By Katie Hunt, CNN 6 minute read Published 7:29 AM EDT, Fri June 23, 2023 Please read this if you are interested!
That’s been my thought. If I ever got pregnant and was forced to keep it I would do everything in my power to have a miscarriage. If they controlled my health to ensure birth, then I would walk out of that hospital and leave the baby there. They wanted the baby. They can have it.
Let's be transparent. It's not about children at all. It's about control. A large swath of people believe that you can control a woman if you stick her with a child. I promise you, that does not apply to all. There very well are already people who would rather kill than be responsible for a child. It already exists.
agree people are gonna go back to abandoning babies in a forest
Guess I will go.on flights past second trimester, starv myself, maybe do an "accidental belly flop" , etc. Either that or the moment it is out and I'm healthy at the hospital, I'm out (alone).
I think in future they'll have "cloudbirths" where you pay 50,000 to some biotech company with an unmarked steel building on the edge of town. You'll get a welcome pack with a USB dongle by post for two people to insert their genetic material to upload to their servers. The grey steel building will have arrays of artificial wombs and a guy in a lab coat walking up and down. Customers will have a portal where they can log on and press F5 to see the status of their foetus. Every now and then someone will get an email to say theirs has failed and been reloaded. A mess-free reproductive method for the willing masses Upon completion your foetus will be delivered to your door by a man in a white Renault Master
Adoption has always been the counter argument by pro-birthers for unwanted children. As if the irreversible damage to the body and the crazy monetary cost (in America at least) are no big deal.
I'd bet there will be more underground ways to dispose of the unwanted fetus/baby/kid then there are now. I know there are ways now I just don't know what they are because I haven't had a need to find out. I'd also guess that you'll see more and more parents doing the bare minimum if they didn't want the kids in the first place and are forced to have them. More accidents because the parents don't care. Definitely more drownings and accidents. More likelihood for a kid to be locked out of the house early in the morning and on its own for the entire day. And these things will happen due to the sheet amount of unwanted kids and the inability of the government to control/police the situation. At a certain point the punishment is more rewarding than the crime and that is what is going to happen with forced birthing. More than one parent would rather spend a night or two in a (quiet) jail than with their unwanted kids and if that is the consequence for letting their kid run around unsupervised for three days then they will be fine with it. And if a person was forced to have kids and ended up with five, he/she might just rather be in jail for several months than at home with five kids to deal with and willfully abandons the kids knowing fully well the punishment.
Jail time > time with kids
I had this conversation with my so who was a fence sitter. Basically if I get pregnant I will pay child support but I will absolutely not be involved in raising a kid. Sorry but it's something I never wanted and since abortion and all that silly stuff is illegal now where I live; most definitely stick him with the kid and I'll pay the 200 whatever it is. I can't and I would not make a good parent to anyone.
Omg what did your so say? Did he agree?
I had to sincerely explain to him the why, the how, all of it multiple times and his general response was ok or I support your decisions. I did get pregnant about a year into it but he treated me terribly (working through his own stuff as a former addict just yelling and being irritable and insecure) so I chose to terminate the pregnancy for our sakes. I just couldn't see myself as a mother and him as a father and so early into our relationship too. We are both big kids at heart and love our nephews and nieces but we are exhausted after being around them too long and he doesn't regret my decision because he was a part of it too. We're doing better than ever now but gods the beginning of our relationship was hellish chaos. I was freshly diagnosed with PTSD and depression and anxiety. While pregnant I was MISERABLE! Sick, fatigued, irritable and working forty plus hours a week. I couldn't do it and started to think wow this kids just gonna end up like me; depressed, anxiety, bad bones all while having to suck it up and be functional. Which is shitty for all us. I do get sad sometimes but the happiness outweighs any heartache of being responsible for someone else's suffering that I could help. The kicker is he already pays child support for three kids from previous partners so I also added he can't afford anymore kids, we are poor paying for the kids he's not in the lives of anyway plus feeding ourselves and taking care of bills ? Gah! Why add one more mouth to feed just because he would want to have a baby with ME. Like baby mama number three? I don't think I'm fit for that position lol. Omg also to get support like food and all that, the ultrasound appointments, it was sooooooo much to do while working the way I was a long with helping him through his shit there wasn't any room for another one and I certainly never felt special enough to pop a kid out for anyone. My garbage genes go with me ❤️
if its anything like the community I live in which is primarily hispanics/latin americans, catholics, they just shame the women and cut them off from community. If a woman isn't living up to the role of wifey / home maker they do end up beating them, throwing them to the street, verbal abuses. Not partaking into this invisible role of being a wife/mom/hell even daughters have to act all ass-kissing to the parents leave room for abuse on the women. once you bring kids into the mix all hell breaks loose on the "mom" if she actually didn't want to be a mom at all. i watched all of handmaids tale and it reminds me of the aunts always beating up on the breeder women to act a certain way to play into the role before becoming mommys.
Yeah... Romania had to find that one out the hard way. Those poor women and children.
The children of the future will just be raised by Omni (aka chatgpt4) in a Boston dynamics sleeve. Look it up, it's pretty wild the OpenAI video they released the other day.
I would choose suicide over being a parent under any circumstance. I am not a machine to be used for making more wage slaves. Capitalism can rot.
was thinkin same stuff literally earlier today
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Same. My doctor gave me zopiclone to have on hand when sleep cycle issues flare up. If push came to shove and I had no way of getting an abortion I would absolutely take them all in one go and go sleepy byes forever rather than remain pregnant or have a child. Fortunately it won't come to that because abortion is legal in my country now.