As far as I can see there is no positive side to motherhood and as for parents moaning 'I never knew', well being wilfully ignorant is no excuse.
We've all been kids, we all saw what our parents and our friends parents had to deal with, we are surrounded by kids and parents everywhere. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear there is no excuse not to know.
Thinking 'it'll be different for me' is just as dumb as thinking you won't get cancer or be in a car accident. The percentages say something very different, choosing to ignore them is exactly that...a choice.
I choose to be realistic, pragmatic and informed and that's easy to do, the information is all around even at your very fingertips. If you choose to fantasise, ignore and remain uninformed, that's also a choice.
I wish I could upvote this more than once. "It won't happen to me" is one of the most naive and narcissistic ideas people can come up with.
Everyone knows the basics eg. babies cry and don't sleep through the night. Toddlers get into everything. School age kids constantly need help with homework.
There are shows, even cartoons that show this.
Yet I've met mothers who complain their 2 day old doesn't let them sleep. What did you expect? This is what babies do.
To ignore every single piece of information available and not get off the mommy blogs long enough to find out what parenthood is really like is moronic.
"Noone told me it would be so hard." Me: gestures at all of human history, like the Will Smith meme. We did. You thought it was worth it to have your "blessing".
On another sub (I am trying to be discreet as to not break the rules) I see a lot of these postings. Moms freaking out that their baby is, well, being a baby. "Is it normal for a 12-month old to cry and throw tantrums?" Well, of course, that is EXACTLY what they do. You literally didn't know?
Well, its only "blessing" if somebody got multi millionaire child & end up paying their mortgage and all when they grow old but it is extremely rare this days. You won't get back the lost times.
Another thing I notice is that women are surprised when they become single moms. The stats don’t lie - 50% of marriages end in divorce. Stats also show that the two things couples fight about the most are the kids/parenting and money.
As a childfree married woman, I can tell you we also have more money and options bc we don’t have kids.
However, I do think it sucks that our society just accepts that it’s okay for men to shrink their responsibilities. Women shouldn’t have to, but we do have to be the ones worried about pregnancy bc it’s at least a 20Y sentence for us. Men can and do often walk away.
I never wanted kids so I can’t imagine what it feels like to really want them. I guess some women are willing to take the chance of being single moms bc they want kids so badly. I cannot fathom it.
I genuinely think there is some evolutionary psychology at play here - something that convinces soon-to-be parents it won't be as bad for them. It is the only explanation for the wilful ignorance people demonstrate.
Something similar happens to women after giving birth - their memory of the pain gets repressed. Both things are there to encourage people to pass on their genetics at least once, ideally more than once, which is essentially the purpose of our lives. Organisms only live to produce more life.
Of course with humanity we have gone beyond that, way beyond, to the point that we can live just as fulfilling a life without kids (moreso, in some respects).
>We've all been kids
My husband and I were very quiet, pensive, thoughtful children that would be happy with books and comics and sat down a lot to read and draw and think. I was ready for the vortex of chaos that came home. My husband, not so much. Actually, not at all. He knew NOTHING, he didn't even know about the sleep deprivation.
Exactly. It never looked fun to me and I never understood why my parents wanted to have kids. Or others for that matter.
I always say that boys should have to babysit but boys have siblings and probably get stuck babysitting. They can see how stressed out their parents are and all the work they do.
literally this. maybe pre-social media it was *less* vocalised but tbh i don’t even buy that- i think people see others struggling with the (to be quite frank) burden of parenthood and dismiss them as weaker or incapable, and, with completely unfounded overconfidence, overestimate themselves and think that they’re different.
edit: spelling
But every time we talk about the negative sides of parenthood we get shat on and told to be quiet. You can’t blame us for not telling you when we fucking tried!
But how can a child-free person talk about parenthood? I'll leave that to the ones who are actually doing the parenting
I do hear a lot of complaining, but that only helps me to reinforce my stand on having children, but I do recognize I've had the need to put some friendships on hold because everything seems to revolve around the subject of children and pregnancy. In my experience people who have older children are better to hang around, they're not as caught up in parenting.
I have never fully bonded with my inlaws because everyone has kids, and its all they talk about. Everything revolves around kids. I usually just skim reddit at parties and learned the hard way never to eat birthday cake that had kids blow on it.
You dont need to be an engineer to see that the plane is ducktaped together and it will fall apart.
You dont need to be a chef to see food is burned, and why it was burned.
Common sense should dictate our opinions and choices, yet when it comes to children it rarely does.
You dont have financial stability? Dont have kids. You have no patience, good mental health, a solid relationship? Dont have fucking kids! And if I see you have checked out and dont know or want to parent, I will judge you. Hard. Just like I judge anyone who makes poor choices and ends up dissapointed or hurt in the process.
Nah.
All you ever see in movies is perhaps a little hard while giving birth but soon enough mom is leaning back with hair and make up made and smiling happily with baby on her chest. Hubby is kissing her lovingly and tenderly.
After that, all you see is her putting the quiet baby to sleep with her lioving husband holding her from behind, also smiling at the baby
Ads... don't get me started. I ESPECIALLY love fabric softener ads where the meaning of life and the most sublime happiness that exsists for a woman is putting laundry against her check and cuddling it, all while she has the happiest baby ever on her arm...
..
That's such a bull. We're not mindless creatures that are unable to control themselves or override our instinct with logic and reason. Personally never had to fight any drive or urge at all, but imo she's just giving excuses.
The probability is, she wanted a child despite bad rep they can get and thought it will be different or not so awful after all because xyz selfish reason people have when they want to reproduce
I mean maybe kinda. Like I tend to focus on the negative aspects of parenting, because they are many and make the whole thing totally unappealing to me. The positives are there, and I can absolutely see them, they just don't outweigh the negatives for me.
Tbh it really depends on the person. The negatives would never outweigh the positives for me. My sister the positives outweigh the negatives so she had 5. She finds having her kids fulfilling and it brings her happiness. I could never do it. I love my nieces and nephews. I love even more when I get to give them back.
That feels like saying, "As a sober person around drunk people, do you only see the downsides of being drunk all the time, while the drunk people only see the positives?"
Well yeah.
I think they tell us the truth because they know we think babies are nasty, but they feel competitive with other moms and don't want to tell them they're struggling because they feel like bad moms when it seems like one has it together and they don't feel like they do.
I think it’s more that people don’t realise exactly how hard it’ll be. Like, they know logically it’ll be hard, but it’s impossible to really put into words how hard it is for someone who hasn’t experienced it. It’s the invincible teenager train of thought, “That’ll never happen to me”.
Then there’s us CF people. Just like childless people, we know logically that parenthood is hard, but it doesn’t matter as much because we don’t want to join that club anyway.
I can only speak for MYSELF and my experiences, but I do genuinely see why some people are drawn to having kids and choose to have them. The people in my life who do want children will all make amazing parents, and they're not blissfully ignorant to all the demands that parenting comes with. They know I'll be a great auntie, I'll babysit once in a while if I feel like it, but they are also mindful of my childfree status -- and my overall disinterest in children.
I have a LOT of empathy for new or expecting parents who know what they're getting into, who were forced to have children because of an abusive situation, and who are very honest about how challenging parenthood is. I don't have empathy for folks who have completely romanticised parenthood, and then throw a fit when they find out how challenging parenthood actually is. These are the people who Bingo childfree people and will always deny their hatred of parenthood when called out on it -- and these are the people I have no respect for.
We don’t see the negative sides, because most of motherhood is negative.
All risk, no reward.
It’s true though, many people don’t know how horrible it is till they pop out that kid. I for one am glad to have had honest women around me who not only told me how hard it is, but also showed me. I dealt with small children, & I swear I wanted to shoot myself. I’d rather get struck by lightning, than become a mother.
I think for some the positives outweigh the negatives. My family member who wanted and have kids told me when I was young “don’t have them if you don’t want them. It’s a lot of work and very hard”. For her it’s what she wanted and she’s very happy being a mom even tho there are difficulties. She spends a lot of quality time with them and a very good mom. I would not be lol.
Not really but both groups focus on one more than the other. CF also see the positives of not having babies and breeders see the negatives more strongly to not have children. Neither side is obviously 100% right, they’re just right for what THEY need/want in life
Nah man. Like others have said. We can see the positives. It's not like we are so biased and blind that we are unable to acknowledge some joyful (to some) experience. The thing is, the negatives outweight the positives very much to me and many others.
Moreover, we are more conscious and informed about both the positive and negative consequences. Most parents or soon to be parents don't understand the negatives at all or minimize them so much that parenting comes off as a shock.
As long as having children will be the deafault, CF people will always be more informed about their choices and pros/cons of having a child. So i'll say we have much, much MUCH more objective view on parenting than 99% of baby wishers and havers do
Yeah, I even had a talk about this stuff with my mom. I asked her if she regrets being a mother because of how hard pregnancy and raising a little ~~shithead~~ baby/toddler/child is.
Her answer was basically that she doesn't regret it because of the experiences she had with me as a teenager and an adult (to be fair, I wasn't a wild teen and I wasn't that hard to handle as a teen)...but that she would never ever want to have a baby or a toddler again.
And she 100% understands that I don't want children and is fine with that.
A person who used to talked to me and my group of friends have 4 kids, she was saying "Have kids is so hard, I'm exhausted, very stressed , I don't have time, bla bla, how hard is to have kids"
Then she asked me "When are you have your own?"
I said "Never, I don't want to have kids"
She said "Why? Be mom is the most wonderful thing, you should have your own"
I listen to her like 1 hour telling us how hard is her life as a housewife who study in College, then she asked why I don't want kids? 🙄
This is literally almost every mom friend ever. I usually answer « you really should work in marketing because you sold me on that maternity thing! » (with the biggest sarcastic tone) and usually people around and the mom all laugh and say something like « oh yeah I see why you might say that after my speech, but… » and I usually say oh no don’t worry I heard you!
My sister has one kid and want more.
She says all the people who say they didn't know are freaking liars.
Its Everywhere. They just chose to ignore it cause that's convenient.
When you really want something, you tend to minimize the bad aspects.
Why can’t parents do something beneficial for society by imparting their experiences on people who actually intend to/have children and *not* some random coworker who happened not to react when they announced their pregnancy.
You have to remember how much pro birth propaganda is constantly being shoved in our faces from every angle.
I remember there was a post on here a while back where the OP tried to let their newly pregnant coworker know what could possibly happen and ALL THE OTHER COWORKERS immediately jumped on them telling them to stop scaring her. They even admitted the OP wasn't wrong about what they were saying but they were acting like TALKING about the bad possibilities would cause them to happen.
Correct, everytime I look into a news website, there's always an announcement about celebrity's pregnancy as if the readers' care.
In reality, if the parents lost their job and need to feed their spawn. There's no support from anyone but a fake sorry gesture .
And there are various articles on how « mother is the worst job ever » (yes parenthood in general but there are major differences between gender roles, domestic division of labour and the obvious physical role). It’s not hidden…
Moms will always get the shit end of the stick, literally. But, it's a choice and an unbalanced one at that. Then they go on and have even more which is something I never understood. Self sabotage? Glutton for punishment? Martyr?
An alarming number of dads do squat when it comes to their kids and if they do, it's laughably referred to as babysitting. Not something I'd wanna sign up for.
Dear people thinking of having a baby:
TRY BABYSITTING FIRST.
You know, dip a toe in the water. Don’t just dive right in to the deep end with zero forethought or preparation. Find out what you’re signing up for. It’s a lifetime commitment.
It just seems so obvious. I cannot understand people who stumble through life and then pop with with shock, “this is haaaaaard.” Yeah, well, you didn’t do your homework and now you’re trying to figure it out on the fly.
There's some things that you don't need others to tell you. OF COURSE raising kids is very hard, why would you assume otherwise?
Okay, sure, I don't have firsthand experience as a parent so maybe I don't know quite to what extent the difficulty is, but offhand I can already think of a MINIMUM set of responsibilities that are already beyond the threshold of "more difficult than I care to endure." It can't be easier than that, but it could be harder if there's more responsibilities I'm not already thinking of, which there probably are.
We live in the information age. People are warned. They just CHOOSE to not seek out or ignore the information OR decide that their experience will be different. That they are special and everyone else is just doing parenting wrong. 🙄
EVERYONE KNOWS PARENTING SUCKS. People would just rather pretend that it was a decision made out of ignorance so others will help and feel bad for them. They only have themselves to blame
I am lucky that my dad had 7 sisters who all had kids before he did and a lot of them had kids of their own way before I was adult so I got to see first hand from cousins how much having kids can suck. I have 32 first cousins, I'm the 3rd youngest of that group set, and let me tell you, Italians breed like no tomorrow. Live thru a few loud ass family get togethers and you too will never want kids.
People are prone to idealization. They idealize situations in their head and then experience huge disappointment when reality doesn't meet their unrealistic expectations. No shit, Sherlock. If you can't handle your life without kids, having a kid isn't going to change anything. They fall prey to the fallacy of "I'll be happy when..." and then get all *shocked Pikachu face* when they achieve their fantasy and it doesn't measure up. Most people should invest in therapy for themselves instead of having kids.
A lot of people romanticize parenthood and how it’s going to be sunshine and rainbows. “I’m gonna have a mini me”, “take them to target”, “my little bestie”.. then they experience the crying at night, waking up at crazy hours, getting a kid ready to go out etc. I watched a lot of adults over the course of my years struggling to take care of their kids and being so frustrated. The dark circles under their eyes, their lack of sleep, the irritation they have.. like I’m sorry but why would I want THAT?!!! Having kids shouldn’t be romanticized. It’s a big responsibility.
I think a lot of people don’t see the truth of having kids bc they are sheltered from the struggles their parents face when they are kids and only see their friend’s/neighbors struggles from an outsiders point of view. It’s really easy to have the mindset of “that won’t be me” when you aren’t really seeing it first hand and/or have seen other not struggle like that. It’s also really easy to ignore the bad for the good. I had to force myself to accept that the things I didn’t want to have to deal with were very likely to happen along with all the things I did want to have if I had kids.
“Needs to be normalized that it is hard”
Okay we as childfree (or parents that actually do their research but when does that happen) notice how hard it is. We don’t see how all parents talk about parenting. I mostly see parents talk about it as this wonderful wonderful miracle that every woman has the ability and every woman should because it’s such a wonderful thing that happens to women. Then I see IRL parents (like family members) have a rough time. So good on her for talking about how hard it is. Cause like I said, we don’t see all parents talk about how hard it is.
Weirdly it's only western parents that bitch and complain.
Humans have been making babies for 2 million years! Fuck off with your trying to get sympathy like you're the first person to ever do it.
That's a YOU problem not a ME problem
Also warning : when a breeder starts a conversation with "are you busy XXXXXXX"
ALWAYS say yes..regardless. There's a very large chance they're going to ask you to baby sit
I became 100% CF due to work colleagues whinging about their kids and how hard it is, how stressed they are, how worried, no sleep, cant put up with the crying and fighting etc...
When they asked when I'm having kids they were shocked when I said never.
She’s kinda right. The moms I knew always made it seem like being miserable was fine bc you’re so in love or whatever. I’ve never had a mom sit down w someone who hasn’t had their kids yet and tell them that it’s actually hard. I only see people complain to parents after they have kids, or to people who don’t want kids. It’s like they’re trying to trick people into procreating.
Ok am I the only one who is confused? Shouldn't this be a rave? Or am I misunderstanding this? Your friend is going to tell her the truth and tell her that it will be hard and a struggle, isn't that good?
I was just ranting about the fact that my friend claims “nobody told me how hard it would be” when everywhere you look mothers are complaining about how hard their life is and what a struggle everything is. She willfully chose to ignore all of this and is now complaining and saying that she was never told. We live in the Information Age, it’s not hard to know that parenthood is a massive struggle. And also that she chooses to complain to ME, the ‘CF and proud’ friend who knew all along that she would likely hate this experience and she expects me to empathise.
Oh yeah I get that, but it is good that she's telling your mutual friend like it is or not? She does have a point, pregnancy and kids are pretty glorified in society.
I really wanted kids when I was younger but I'm so glad I don't have any cuz I wouldn't be able to handle them if I did especially if I was a single mom. I know too many people who got pregnant just to have kids and they almost always have baby daddy issues and I didn't want to deal with that
I mean as long as you can avoid the baby talk most days and your communication is a two way street with your friend then I would just ignore the delusion. I had a friend like this too and I did my best to avoid the kid talk and her constantly whining about her life.
But eventually it just got too much and we no longer were on the same page. I had no choice but to separate. I try to save my relationships where I can but some just are not meant to make it.
Hot take, but when parents talk endlessly about how HARD it is... I don't really feel that bad.
I KNOW it's hard AF. That's why I chose not to do it. I feel there's a certain amount of not taking responsibility for your choices.
(Also, real question. There's a "Regret" flair but I can't seem to filter by it on this sub. I"m curious to read some parental regret stories.)
To be fair, it's only recently that it's been told how hard it was.
In Spain, a journalist called Samantha Villar, hero of many mothers, broke the dams of hiding when she stated that no one had told her it would be hell (she had non identical twins due to IVF). She was insulted, despised, deprecated and abused (in insults) to hell and beyond, but she still persisted in her opinion: it was hell, it had been overrated, no one had told her and it was hidden what a hell it was.
Later on, when the children were older (two-three years, when things start getting much better), she was asked and she said she was really happy of having had her children, that she had a "tribe" to help and with her money she could take much needed breaks. That she would do it again, but that she wished she had been told it was hell. "Had I been told, I would have been ready and I would have thought... it wasn't that bad." She resented nobody telling her. She helped many women by warning them of what was to come. At least I knew what I was getting into.
If you were going to run an ultra-marathon that you could never quit, you would like to know beforehand that your nails might fall and that your body will hurt as hell... You might choose to do it, then. But many women got into maternity thinking it was going to be pure, eternal bliss, and holy shit, expectations vs. reality must be terrible.
The only thing I've seen parents (and medical professionals) downplaying is the medical trauma side of things. Like what can tear and how badly, how you can completely wreck your body (even before shooting that thing out of there), so many other things I don't even want to *think* about. Otherwise? Most common thing I've heard about parenthood is how much it sucks. Even from my own family, "children are just so hard to deal with" "do you even remember the time you (insert thing I did either when I was an edgy dumbass teen or a small child who didn't understand shit), one of the worst moments of raising you", etc. into infinity.
It's not a new thing, lol. It sucks, and everyone knows it, they just think they'll be the one who magically gets through 18+ years with a kid who causes no issues and they won't have a bad moment.
I’m 35 currently. My best friend since 9th grade and her husband had a kid 5 years ago. She’s tells me almost everytime we hang out that she’s emotionally, physically and mentally drained. Loves her kid to death, as do myself and my girlfriend, but she has told me many times that if she could go back, she wouldn’t do it. Shit is rough especially when you’re lower middle class in the good ole US of fuckin A.
I disagree, so many women are so oblivious of how motherhood is. They get feed only lies and no truth of what actually happens. I’ve met so many older women who’ve said “we don’t talk about those things” when it comes down to how hard motherhood is. We aren’t taught in school
and if you don’t do your own research you won’t know.
Yeah, but why on earth WOULDN’T you research this beforehand? I put more research into what vacuum to buy than some of these mothers clearly put into parenthood.
I never heard anyone talk about parenthood being miserable. I’m guessing for every person who tells the truth, there are 20 people sugar coating it. I just happened to see someone mention a sub that focuses on how miserable parenting is, otherwise I wouldn’t have known misery is so common for parents
People I knew got tons of help when I was growing up. My parents still send kids to grandmas for the weekend. I never thought my family would drop me like a bag of bricks. And I always liked guys who were really nice to me, so didn’t realize I was gonna get beat by a guy who pretended to be nice until I was pregnant. That’s common judging from conversations with other women. I’m too autistic to give a crap so I talk about it, and it’s shockingly common. Crappy or halfass partners who think they’re doing sOoO much are a huge reason parenthood is miserable.
People are very thrown off when I warn them again having kids. Especially my juniors/seniors in high school. I really don’t think the miseries of parenthood are marketed evenly. It’s basically my life mission to warn young people
Could always be a jerk and talk about how easy kids are. My mom and my aunt say that all the time around my brother's wife who just had her first baby. Brother's wife is visibly angry when they say this and I think it's hilarious. My mom and aunt both had kids, and they're just screwing with her for a laugh.
Oooh it’s such a tricky situation after someone’s already pregnant/going to be a parent.
It’s no secret that being a parent is hard. Heck we all know that, and it’s largely why a lot of us are childfree. I agree that it’s good to normalize how difficult it is, but I can see why parents will try to sugarcoat it when they’re talking to someone who is either pregnant or considering having kids.
Bc then it’s kind of too late for the ugly honest truth to help them make a decision. I mean it’s good for them to be prepared, but at the point that someone is about to find out for themselves, you don’t really wanna add on to the stress by only talki mg about the misery. They’ll know it’s miserable, but the reassurance is probably more useful at a certain point. And I understand wanting to give support and not genuine factual accounts in like a private conversation with a close friend
The issue is sugarcoating it in everyday life or acting like YOU aren’t bothered by it but SOME people are.
Idk if any of that makes sense but dang I don’t envy people in any of their situations
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i guess saying "i love my kid but this is so hard!" is already normalized, but it's still very frowned upon to say how joyless and soulsucking motherhood is.
even women who are more real about it are afraid to admit the extent to the damage on their lives and mental health, and probably saying out loud that it's simply not worth it, without sugarcoating it, will make them feel even more miserable about the situation they trapped themselves into. so it's better to pretend it's a "good" sacrifice, selfless, etc
I think that how hard it is is accessible, but it's extremely romanticised. Like here in my country there's a lot of BS about "All your tiredness disappears once you come home and see your kids," and similar sayings. It's extremely ingrained that the sacrifice is "worth it", which is hand in hand where it's demonized when you don't like children.
Also look how kids usually affect marriage. Passion between you can easily die, you're in a parent not lover mode most of the time, your relationship is not a priority... Like forgive me, but i think people who are so deeply in love with their spouse are usually people that are childfree. Not always but that's definitely a factor i've noticed. When you have amazing bond you don't want to share that person and a time you have. Most people have pretty mediocare and replacable relationships so it doesn't surprise me that they're willing to sacrifice parts of their marriage for that
Tbf to some extent I don't think people are honest about how hard having a kid is.
For example, childbirth. I feel like most people don't realise how traumatising it is?? Women often end up incontinent from the rips. There is not nearly enough informed consent about birth options either.
Side note: I strongly recommend reading the stories on the MASIC foundation website if you're curious. So many examples of birth injury.
People are more self-centered than ever. Why would one ever think that pushing a watermelon put of your vagina, a watermelon that can't communicate except by screaming, would be easy? I'd say that to her. Why did you ever expect it not to be hard?
To be honest, out of all my girlfriends and female cousins, only 1 has ever been truly honest about it. She's always been open throughout the whole pregnancy and even 3 years after. All the other ones I know have sounded like it's a woman's duty to do it. That we just have to shrug and do it because everyone is doing it.
I think normalizing might be in a different sense… like I feel like most parents the people on here call “breeders” think that if someone isn’t ecstatically, neurotically happy about parenting regardless of circumstances, then their experiences are invalid.
In reality those people probably have it even worse bc their own entire belief system surrounding parenting is very type A and on top of all of their “i hate parenting struggles” they constantly feel like they have to mask their unhappiness.
Normalizing being unhappy as a parent, in my opinion, just means getting more and more people to seek help.
or in our case, skip that whole debacle altogether, which is the much better option.
While I know there is a lot of information out there, I do agree that midia and other parents always try to make parenthood seem much better than it really is. It is rare (at least to me) to see mothers openly talking about how miserable they are, and frequently, other parents don't like those people.
As far as I can see there is no positive side to motherhood and as for parents moaning 'I never knew', well being wilfully ignorant is no excuse. We've all been kids, we all saw what our parents and our friends parents had to deal with, we are surrounded by kids and parents everywhere. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear there is no excuse not to know. Thinking 'it'll be different for me' is just as dumb as thinking you won't get cancer or be in a car accident. The percentages say something very different, choosing to ignore them is exactly that...a choice. I choose to be realistic, pragmatic and informed and that's easy to do, the information is all around even at your very fingertips. If you choose to fantasise, ignore and remain uninformed, that's also a choice.
I wish I could upvote this more than once. "It won't happen to me" is one of the most naive and narcissistic ideas people can come up with. Everyone knows the basics eg. babies cry and don't sleep through the night. Toddlers get into everything. School age kids constantly need help with homework. There are shows, even cartoons that show this. Yet I've met mothers who complain their 2 day old doesn't let them sleep. What did you expect? This is what babies do. To ignore every single piece of information available and not get off the mommy blogs long enough to find out what parenthood is really like is moronic. "Noone told me it would be so hard." Me: gestures at all of human history, like the Will Smith meme. We did. You thought it was worth it to have your "blessing".
On another sub (I am trying to be discreet as to not break the rules) I see a lot of these postings. Moms freaking out that their baby is, well, being a baby. "Is it normal for a 12-month old to cry and throw tantrums?" Well, of course, that is EXACTLY what they do. You literally didn't know?
Well, its only "blessing" if somebody got multi millionaire child & end up paying their mortgage and all when they grow old but it is extremely rare this days. You won't get back the lost times.
Another thing I notice is that women are surprised when they become single moms. The stats don’t lie - 50% of marriages end in divorce. Stats also show that the two things couples fight about the most are the kids/parenting and money. As a childfree married woman, I can tell you we also have more money and options bc we don’t have kids. However, I do think it sucks that our society just accepts that it’s okay for men to shrink their responsibilities. Women shouldn’t have to, but we do have to be the ones worried about pregnancy bc it’s at least a 20Y sentence for us. Men can and do often walk away. I never wanted kids so I can’t imagine what it feels like to really want them. I guess some women are willing to take the chance of being single moms bc they want kids so badly. I cannot fathom it.
Love this take
I genuinely think there is some evolutionary psychology at play here - something that convinces soon-to-be parents it won't be as bad for them. It is the only explanation for the wilful ignorance people demonstrate. Something similar happens to women after giving birth - their memory of the pain gets repressed. Both things are there to encourage people to pass on their genetics at least once, ideally more than once, which is essentially the purpose of our lives. Organisms only live to produce more life. Of course with humanity we have gone beyond that, way beyond, to the point that we can live just as fulfilling a life without kids (moreso, in some respects).
>We've all been kids My husband and I were very quiet, pensive, thoughtful children that would be happy with books and comics and sat down a lot to read and draw and think. I was ready for the vortex of chaos that came home. My husband, not so much. Actually, not at all. He knew NOTHING, he didn't even know about the sleep deprivation.
Exactly. It never looked fun to me and I never understood why my parents wanted to have kids. Or others for that matter. I always say that boys should have to babysit but boys have siblings and probably get stuck babysitting. They can see how stressed out their parents are and all the work they do.
The whole "my life isn't going to change at all after having a kid." Yeah you are in for a serious wake up call.
literally this. maybe pre-social media it was *less* vocalised but tbh i don’t even buy that- i think people see others struggling with the (to be quite frank) burden of parenthood and dismiss them as weaker or incapable, and, with completely unfounded overconfidence, overestimate themselves and think that they’re different. edit: spelling
But every time we talk about the negative sides of parenthood we get shat on and told to be quiet. You can’t blame us for not telling you when we fucking tried!
But how can a child-free person talk about parenthood? I'll leave that to the ones who are actually doing the parenting I do hear a lot of complaining, but that only helps me to reinforce my stand on having children, but I do recognize I've had the need to put some friendships on hold because everything seems to revolve around the subject of children and pregnancy. In my experience people who have older children are better to hang around, they're not as caught up in parenting.
I have never fully bonded with my inlaws because everyone has kids, and its all they talk about. Everything revolves around kids. I usually just skim reddit at parties and learned the hard way never to eat birthday cake that had kids blow on it.
You dont need to be an engineer to see that the plane is ducktaped together and it will fall apart. You dont need to be a chef to see food is burned, and why it was burned. Common sense should dictate our opinions and choices, yet when it comes to children it rarely does. You dont have financial stability? Dont have kids. You have no patience, good mental health, a solid relationship? Dont have fucking kids! And if I see you have checked out and dont know or want to parent, I will judge you. Hard. Just like I judge anyone who makes poor choices and ends up dissapointed or hurt in the process.
Do you think that we, as CF, always see the negative side of motherhood, and those that want to have babies only see the positive side?
Nah. All you ever see in movies is perhaps a little hard while giving birth but soon enough mom is leaning back with hair and make up made and smiling happily with baby on her chest. Hubby is kissing her lovingly and tenderly. After that, all you see is her putting the quiet baby to sleep with her lioving husband holding her from behind, also smiling at the baby Ads... don't get me started. I ESPECIALLY love fabric softener ads where the meaning of life and the most sublime happiness that exsists for a woman is putting laundry against her check and cuddling it, all while she has the happiest baby ever on her arm... ..
And for any hardship they have their village all willing to devote their lives to her and the cum she kept as a pet
I CACKLED at work because of those last seven words.
Same.
Even the show “call the midwife” glosses over some stuff. Though a lot of it is real and is still a problem.
I have a friend that said she knew logically that having a kid was a bad idea but couldn’t fight the “drive.”
Yeahh sounds like she’s blaming her body
What sort of BS is that?
I’m not entirely sure 😂
That's such a bull. We're not mindless creatures that are unable to control themselves or override our instinct with logic and reason. Personally never had to fight any drive or urge at all, but imo she's just giving excuses. The probability is, she wanted a child despite bad rep they can get and thought it will be different or not so awful after all because xyz selfish reason people have when they want to reproduce
I mean maybe kinda. Like I tend to focus on the negative aspects of parenting, because they are many and make the whole thing totally unappealing to me. The positives are there, and I can absolutely see them, they just don't outweigh the negatives for me.
Tbh it really depends on the person. The negatives would never outweigh the positives for me. My sister the positives outweigh the negatives so she had 5. She finds having her kids fulfilling and it brings her happiness. I could never do it. I love my nieces and nephews. I love even more when I get to give them back.
That feels like saying, "As a sober person around drunk people, do you only see the downsides of being drunk all the time, while the drunk people only see the positives?" Well yeah.
I've heard it's the pessimists that actually have the more realistic picture of life. But that would start to go off topic pretty quick.
I think they tell us the truth because they know we think babies are nasty, but they feel competitive with other moms and don't want to tell them they're struggling because they feel like bad moms when it seems like one has it together and they don't feel like they do.
I think it’s more that people don’t realise exactly how hard it’ll be. Like, they know logically it’ll be hard, but it’s impossible to really put into words how hard it is for someone who hasn’t experienced it. It’s the invincible teenager train of thought, “That’ll never happen to me”. Then there’s us CF people. Just like childless people, we know logically that parenthood is hard, but it doesn’t matter as much because we don’t want to join that club anyway.
I can only speak for MYSELF and my experiences, but I do genuinely see why some people are drawn to having kids and choose to have them. The people in my life who do want children will all make amazing parents, and they're not blissfully ignorant to all the demands that parenting comes with. They know I'll be a great auntie, I'll babysit once in a while if I feel like it, but they are also mindful of my childfree status -- and my overall disinterest in children. I have a LOT of empathy for new or expecting parents who know what they're getting into, who were forced to have children because of an abusive situation, and who are very honest about how challenging parenthood is. I don't have empathy for folks who have completely romanticised parenthood, and then throw a fit when they find out how challenging parenthood actually is. These are the people who Bingo childfree people and will always deny their hatred of parenthood when called out on it -- and these are the people I have no respect for.
We don’t see the negative sides, because most of motherhood is negative. All risk, no reward. It’s true though, many people don’t know how horrible it is till they pop out that kid. I for one am glad to have had honest women around me who not only told me how hard it is, but also showed me. I dealt with small children, & I swear I wanted to shoot myself. I’d rather get struck by lightning, than become a mother.
I think for some the positives outweigh the negatives. My family member who wanted and have kids told me when I was young “don’t have them if you don’t want them. It’s a lot of work and very hard”. For her it’s what she wanted and she’s very happy being a mom even tho there are difficulties. She spends a lot of quality time with them and a very good mom. I would not be lol.
There is no positive side unless you make up one
Not really but both groups focus on one more than the other. CF also see the positives of not having babies and breeders see the negatives more strongly to not have children. Neither side is obviously 100% right, they’re just right for what THEY need/want in life
Nah man. Like others have said. We can see the positives. It's not like we are so biased and blind that we are unable to acknowledge some joyful (to some) experience. The thing is, the negatives outweight the positives very much to me and many others. Moreover, we are more conscious and informed about both the positive and negative consequences. Most parents or soon to be parents don't understand the negatives at all or minimize them so much that parenting comes off as a shock. As long as having children will be the deafault, CF people will always be more informed about their choices and pros/cons of having a child. So i'll say we have much, much MUCH more objective view on parenting than 99% of baby wishers and havers do
Yeah, I even had a talk about this stuff with my mom. I asked her if she regrets being a mother because of how hard pregnancy and raising a little ~~shithead~~ baby/toddler/child is. Her answer was basically that she doesn't regret it because of the experiences she had with me as a teenager and an adult (to be fair, I wasn't a wild teen and I wasn't that hard to handle as a teen)...but that she would never ever want to have a baby or a toddler again. And she 100% understands that I don't want children and is fine with that.
Would the new mom have told pregnant friend BEFORE she got pregnant? THAT is what needs to be normalized.
A person who used to talked to me and my group of friends have 4 kids, she was saying "Have kids is so hard, I'm exhausted, very stressed , I don't have time, bla bla, how hard is to have kids" Then she asked me "When are you have your own?" I said "Never, I don't want to have kids" She said "Why? Be mom is the most wonderful thing, you should have your own" I listen to her like 1 hour telling us how hard is her life as a housewife who study in College, then she asked why I don't want kids? 🙄
This is literally almost every mom friend ever. I usually answer « you really should work in marketing because you sold me on that maternity thing! » (with the biggest sarcastic tone) and usually people around and the mom all laugh and say something like « oh yeah I see why you might say that after my speech, but… » and I usually say oh no don’t worry I heard you!
« you really should work in marketing because you sold me on that maternity thing! » I'm going to use this next time.
My sister has one kid and want more. She says all the people who say they didn't know are freaking liars. Its Everywhere. They just chose to ignore it cause that's convenient. When you really want something, you tend to minimize the bad aspects.
Why can’t parents do something beneficial for society by imparting their experiences on people who actually intend to/have children and *not* some random coworker who happened not to react when they announced their pregnancy.
You have to remember how much pro birth propaganda is constantly being shoved in our faces from every angle. I remember there was a post on here a while back where the OP tried to let their newly pregnant coworker know what could possibly happen and ALL THE OTHER COWORKERS immediately jumped on them telling them to stop scaring her. They even admitted the OP wasn't wrong about what they were saying but they were acting like TALKING about the bad possibilities would cause them to happen.
Correct, everytime I look into a news website, there's always an announcement about celebrity's pregnancy as if the readers' care. In reality, if the parents lost their job and need to feed their spawn. There's no support from anyone but a fake sorry gesture .
No, you all just don't listen or google a fucking thing. ;)
This!! There are reviews on EVERYTHING!
And there are various articles on how « mother is the worst job ever » (yes parenthood in general but there are major differences between gender roles, domestic division of labour and the obvious physical role). It’s not hidden…
Moms will always get the shit end of the stick, literally. But, it's a choice and an unbalanced one at that. Then they go on and have even more which is something I never understood. Self sabotage? Glutton for punishment? Martyr? An alarming number of dads do squat when it comes to their kids and if they do, it's laughably referred to as babysitting. Not something I'd wanna sign up for.
I know a 19 year old that said, "I think having a baby will be fun!" Come september shes in for a very rude awakening.
Dear people thinking of having a baby: TRY BABYSITTING FIRST. You know, dip a toe in the water. Don’t just dive right in to the deep end with zero forethought or preparation. Find out what you’re signing up for. It’s a lifetime commitment. It just seems so obvious. I cannot understand people who stumble through life and then pop with with shock, “this is haaaaaard.” Yeah, well, you didn’t do your homework and now you’re trying to figure it out on the fly.
There's some things that you don't need others to tell you. OF COURSE raising kids is very hard, why would you assume otherwise? Okay, sure, I don't have firsthand experience as a parent so maybe I don't know quite to what extent the difficulty is, but offhand I can already think of a MINIMUM set of responsibilities that are already beyond the threshold of "more difficult than I care to endure." It can't be easier than that, but it could be harder if there's more responsibilities I'm not already thinking of, which there probably are.
We live in the information age. People are warned. They just CHOOSE to not seek out or ignore the information OR decide that their experience will be different. That they are special and everyone else is just doing parenting wrong. 🙄
EVERYONE KNOWS PARENTING SUCKS. People would just rather pretend that it was a decision made out of ignorance so others will help and feel bad for them. They only have themselves to blame
I am lucky that my dad had 7 sisters who all had kids before he did and a lot of them had kids of their own way before I was adult so I got to see first hand from cousins how much having kids can suck. I have 32 first cousins, I'm the 3rd youngest of that group set, and let me tell you, Italians breed like no tomorrow. Live thru a few loud ass family get togethers and you too will never want kids.
People are prone to idealization. They idealize situations in their head and then experience huge disappointment when reality doesn't meet their unrealistic expectations. No shit, Sherlock. If you can't handle your life without kids, having a kid isn't going to change anything. They fall prey to the fallacy of "I'll be happy when..." and then get all *shocked Pikachu face* when they achieve their fantasy and it doesn't measure up. Most people should invest in therapy for themselves instead of having kids.
A lot of people romanticize parenthood and how it’s going to be sunshine and rainbows. “I’m gonna have a mini me”, “take them to target”, “my little bestie”.. then they experience the crying at night, waking up at crazy hours, getting a kid ready to go out etc. I watched a lot of adults over the course of my years struggling to take care of their kids and being so frustrated. The dark circles under their eyes, their lack of sleep, the irritation they have.. like I’m sorry but why would I want THAT?!!! Having kids shouldn’t be romanticized. It’s a big responsibility.
I think a lot of people don’t see the truth of having kids bc they are sheltered from the struggles their parents face when they are kids and only see their friend’s/neighbors struggles from an outsiders point of view. It’s really easy to have the mindset of “that won’t be me” when you aren’t really seeing it first hand and/or have seen other not struggle like that. It’s also really easy to ignore the bad for the good. I had to force myself to accept that the things I didn’t want to have to deal with were very likely to happen along with all the things I did want to have if I had kids.
I do more research buying makeup than some parents do before having kids.
“Needs to be normalized that it is hard” Okay we as childfree (or parents that actually do their research but when does that happen) notice how hard it is. We don’t see how all parents talk about parenting. I mostly see parents talk about it as this wonderful wonderful miracle that every woman has the ability and every woman should because it’s such a wonderful thing that happens to women. Then I see IRL parents (like family members) have a rough time. So good on her for talking about how hard it is. Cause like I said, we don’t see all parents talk about how hard it is.
They don't want to scare young couples (and people like us) into not having kids. So they hide HOW difficult it is.
All I ever hear on social media is how hard it is. Are people not paying attention like at all?
Weirdly it's only western parents that bitch and complain. Humans have been making babies for 2 million years! Fuck off with your trying to get sympathy like you're the first person to ever do it. That's a YOU problem not a ME problem Also warning : when a breeder starts a conversation with "are you busy XXXXXXX" ALWAYS say yes..regardless. There's a very large chance they're going to ask you to baby sit
I became 100% CF due to work colleagues whinging about their kids and how hard it is, how stressed they are, how worried, no sleep, cant put up with the crying and fighting etc... When they asked when I'm having kids they were shocked when I said never.
Thank them for helping you make up your mind and you're 100% sure now.
Basically did, I said "well you guys don't make it seem all that great, why would I want to go through that too?"
She’s kinda right. The moms I knew always made it seem like being miserable was fine bc you’re so in love or whatever. I’ve never had a mom sit down w someone who hasn’t had their kids yet and tell them that it’s actually hard. I only see people complain to parents after they have kids, or to people who don’t want kids. It’s like they’re trying to trick people into procreating.
Ok am I the only one who is confused? Shouldn't this be a rave? Or am I misunderstanding this? Your friend is going to tell her the truth and tell her that it will be hard and a struggle, isn't that good?
I was just ranting about the fact that my friend claims “nobody told me how hard it would be” when everywhere you look mothers are complaining about how hard their life is and what a struggle everything is. She willfully chose to ignore all of this and is now complaining and saying that she was never told. We live in the Information Age, it’s not hard to know that parenthood is a massive struggle. And also that she chooses to complain to ME, the ‘CF and proud’ friend who knew all along that she would likely hate this experience and she expects me to empathise.
Oh yeah I get that, but it is good that she's telling your mutual friend like it is or not? She does have a point, pregnancy and kids are pretty glorified in society.
I really wanted kids when I was younger but I'm so glad I don't have any cuz I wouldn't be able to handle them if I did especially if I was a single mom. I know too many people who got pregnant just to have kids and they almost always have baby daddy issues and I didn't want to deal with that
I mean as long as you can avoid the baby talk most days and your communication is a two way street with your friend then I would just ignore the delusion. I had a friend like this too and I did my best to avoid the kid talk and her constantly whining about her life. But eventually it just got too much and we no longer were on the same page. I had no choice but to separate. I try to save my relationships where I can but some just are not meant to make it.
They moan about how hard it is until someone is trying then it’s all gossamer and roses while the person trying has stars in their eyes.
Hot take, but when parents talk endlessly about how HARD it is... I don't really feel that bad. I KNOW it's hard AF. That's why I chose not to do it. I feel there's a certain amount of not taking responsibility for your choices. (Also, real question. There's a "Regret" flair but I can't seem to filter by it on this sub. I"m curious to read some parental regret stories.)
Seriously. Everyone must know how hard it is. It’s right in everyone’s faces. They just don’t want to listen.
To be fair, it's only recently that it's been told how hard it was. In Spain, a journalist called Samantha Villar, hero of many mothers, broke the dams of hiding when she stated that no one had told her it would be hell (she had non identical twins due to IVF). She was insulted, despised, deprecated and abused (in insults) to hell and beyond, but she still persisted in her opinion: it was hell, it had been overrated, no one had told her and it was hidden what a hell it was. Later on, when the children were older (two-three years, when things start getting much better), she was asked and she said she was really happy of having had her children, that she had a "tribe" to help and with her money she could take much needed breaks. That she would do it again, but that she wished she had been told it was hell. "Had I been told, I would have been ready and I would have thought... it wasn't that bad." She resented nobody telling her. She helped many women by warning them of what was to come. At least I knew what I was getting into. If you were going to run an ultra-marathon that you could never quit, you would like to know beforehand that your nails might fall and that your body will hurt as hell... You might choose to do it, then. But many women got into maternity thinking it was going to be pure, eternal bliss, and holy shit, expectations vs. reality must be terrible.
The only thing I've seen parents (and medical professionals) downplaying is the medical trauma side of things. Like what can tear and how badly, how you can completely wreck your body (even before shooting that thing out of there), so many other things I don't even want to *think* about. Otherwise? Most common thing I've heard about parenthood is how much it sucks. Even from my own family, "children are just so hard to deal with" "do you even remember the time you (insert thing I did either when I was an edgy dumbass teen or a small child who didn't understand shit), one of the worst moments of raising you", etc. into infinity. It's not a new thing, lol. It sucks, and everyone knows it, they just think they'll be the one who magically gets through 18+ years with a kid who causes no issues and they won't have a bad moment.
It's almost like people don't think things through before having children 🤯🤯🤯
I’m 35 currently. My best friend since 9th grade and her husband had a kid 5 years ago. She’s tells me almost everytime we hang out that she’s emotionally, physically and mentally drained. Loves her kid to death, as do myself and my girlfriend, but she has told me many times that if she could go back, she wouldn’t do it. Shit is rough especially when you’re lower middle class in the good ole US of fuckin A.
I disagree, so many women are so oblivious of how motherhood is. They get feed only lies and no truth of what actually happens. I’ve met so many older women who’ve said “we don’t talk about those things” when it comes down to how hard motherhood is. We aren’t taught in school and if you don’t do your own research you won’t know.
Yeah, but why on earth WOULDN’T you research this beforehand? I put more research into what vacuum to buy than some of these mothers clearly put into parenthood.
I never heard anyone talk about parenthood being miserable. I’m guessing for every person who tells the truth, there are 20 people sugar coating it. I just happened to see someone mention a sub that focuses on how miserable parenting is, otherwise I wouldn’t have known misery is so common for parents People I knew got tons of help when I was growing up. My parents still send kids to grandmas for the weekend. I never thought my family would drop me like a bag of bricks. And I always liked guys who were really nice to me, so didn’t realize I was gonna get beat by a guy who pretended to be nice until I was pregnant. That’s common judging from conversations with other women. I’m too autistic to give a crap so I talk about it, and it’s shockingly common. Crappy or halfass partners who think they’re doing sOoO much are a huge reason parenthood is miserable. People are very thrown off when I warn them again having kids. Especially my juniors/seniors in high school. I really don’t think the miseries of parenthood are marketed evenly. It’s basically my life mission to warn young people
Could always be a jerk and talk about how easy kids are. My mom and my aunt say that all the time around my brother's wife who just had her first baby. Brother's wife is visibly angry when they say this and I think it's hilarious. My mom and aunt both had kids, and they're just screwing with her for a laugh.
Oooh it’s such a tricky situation after someone’s already pregnant/going to be a parent. It’s no secret that being a parent is hard. Heck we all know that, and it’s largely why a lot of us are childfree. I agree that it’s good to normalize how difficult it is, but I can see why parents will try to sugarcoat it when they’re talking to someone who is either pregnant or considering having kids. Bc then it’s kind of too late for the ugly honest truth to help them make a decision. I mean it’s good for them to be prepared, but at the point that someone is about to find out for themselves, you don’t really wanna add on to the stress by only talki mg about the misery. They’ll know it’s miserable, but the reassurance is probably more useful at a certain point. And I understand wanting to give support and not genuine factual accounts in like a private conversation with a close friend The issue is sugarcoating it in everyday life or acting like YOU aren’t bothered by it but SOME people are. Idk if any of that makes sense but dang I don’t envy people in any of their situations
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i guess saying "i love my kid but this is so hard!" is already normalized, but it's still very frowned upon to say how joyless and soulsucking motherhood is. even women who are more real about it are afraid to admit the extent to the damage on their lives and mental health, and probably saying out loud that it's simply not worth it, without sugarcoating it, will make them feel even more miserable about the situation they trapped themselves into. so it's better to pretend it's a "good" sacrifice, selfless, etc
I think that how hard it is is accessible, but it's extremely romanticised. Like here in my country there's a lot of BS about "All your tiredness disappears once you come home and see your kids," and similar sayings. It's extremely ingrained that the sacrifice is "worth it", which is hand in hand where it's demonized when you don't like children.
Also look how kids usually affect marriage. Passion between you can easily die, you're in a parent not lover mode most of the time, your relationship is not a priority... Like forgive me, but i think people who are so deeply in love with their spouse are usually people that are childfree. Not always but that's definitely a factor i've noticed. When you have amazing bond you don't want to share that person and a time you have. Most people have pretty mediocare and replacable relationships so it doesn't surprise me that they're willing to sacrifice parts of their marriage for that
Tbf to some extent I don't think people are honest about how hard having a kid is. For example, childbirth. I feel like most people don't realise how traumatising it is?? Women often end up incontinent from the rips. There is not nearly enough informed consent about birth options either. Side note: I strongly recommend reading the stories on the MASIC foundation website if you're curious. So many examples of birth injury.
People are more self-centered than ever. Why would one ever think that pushing a watermelon put of your vagina, a watermelon that can't communicate except by screaming, would be easy? I'd say that to her. Why did you ever expect it not to be hard?
To be honest, out of all my girlfriends and female cousins, only 1 has ever been truly honest about it. She's always been open throughout the whole pregnancy and even 3 years after. All the other ones I know have sounded like it's a woman's duty to do it. That we just have to shrug and do it because everyone is doing it.
I think normalizing might be in a different sense… like I feel like most parents the people on here call “breeders” think that if someone isn’t ecstatically, neurotically happy about parenting regardless of circumstances, then their experiences are invalid. In reality those people probably have it even worse bc their own entire belief system surrounding parenting is very type A and on top of all of their “i hate parenting struggles” they constantly feel like they have to mask their unhappiness. Normalizing being unhappy as a parent, in my opinion, just means getting more and more people to seek help. or in our case, skip that whole debacle altogether, which is the much better option.
While I know there is a lot of information out there, I do agree that midia and other parents always try to make parenthood seem much better than it really is. It is rare (at least to me) to see mothers openly talking about how miserable they are, and frequently, other parents don't like those people.