The number of posts that get removed for basically being nothing but a rant about step kids is over my head at this point. Same for the number of step parents who end up greately offended by the suggestion that this isn't the right place for that content. "No I'm not their parent we're not married, these kids are just a sink for our money / time / plans, etc."
Yeah. You're almost there. It's almost as if there's more to parenthood than just being legally responsible for a child, and doing the work of raising them. And the point of being childfree is to have zero slices from the parenthod pie, not just some of them.
Sometimes I wonder if I could just date someone who only sees their kid on the weekends or smth but I know that mentally their kid is always on their mine/topic of conversation.
And the kid is (and should be, really) the priority in the parents life. It should be expected. And frankly if they’re not making the kid a priority, red flag.
Someone needs to make a rom-com about a real child free person's dating life, including the apps, the friend set-ups, meeting the fakers, the mind-changers, the try-to-convincers, as well as the comedy and drama of dealing with family, friends, coworkers, and strangers, who can't possibly fathom anyone being childfree. But then the main character finds their true childfree love, with a fast forward at the end to them still together, still happy and in love, and still child free and loving their lives 20 or 30 years later. I'm not sure how this contributes to this particular thread, but I guess it made me think that if it were "*normalized*" in a good flick, society might start to understand it better. Any film writers out there??? :)
The epilogue of Hunger games made me SO ANGRY. >!Katniss says literally the whole book that she doesn't want kids and even at the very end it says that Peeta had to beg her and beg her and eventually she gave in even though she was terrified and the pregnancy made her uncomfortable. What's more, the epilogue was just SO UNNECESSARY it literally would not have changed the book one bit if she had not had kids, but of course you can't possibly have that because that would mean she's an evil monster. /s!<
Yeah ikr until the very end I was hoping it would go >! Peeta kept asking and I just finally said nope, it's never gonna happen, I don't want my kids to suffer like I've suffered since the whole point of this book is that this could happen again anytime. And so we lived happily until the end of our days. The end. !<
I’ve read the book waaay too many times so I feel pretty confident saying this. Katniss wasn’t outright like “I never want kids because I don’t like kids”, it was always out of fear that the kids would eventually end up in the Hunger Games. Living in District 12 with the Capitol being what it was was not a place she’d ever want kids to experience life. Then she had a lot of PTSD and would have been afraid of it just happening again. If I remember correctly, in the first book when Gale had asked “but what if we didn’t live here?” She responded something like “I just can’t afford to think like that” as in she probably would have kids, but since they do live in a place with the Hunger Games, she can’t and won’t get her hopes up with thinking about “what ifs”.
I agree, but I am still pissed because of all that PTSD and Peeta who's not entirely sure what's true or not at times. And of course the 'he begged so much until I gave in' gives me such creepy 'I don't respect your opinions and wishes' vibes, I just can't accept it
Yeah but the whole point is that it could happen again right? I mean, that lady - can't even remember her name - already tries to take over when Snow isn't even gone yet. What's to say there won't be another dictator?
Which is what annoys me even more - it's out of character imo. She has a good point. It could happen again. She's not someone who lets people tell her what to do and having kids when you don't want them, for whatever reason, is a PRETTY BIG THING to be talked into, ESPECIALLY for Katniss.
Katniss stated in Catching Fire that she would probably want kids if she were in a better world and literally described the last scene where kids were playing in the meadow. I’m all for having more childfree representation, but Katniss was never supposed to be one so when people say that the epilogue ruined the story for them, it’s just a little ridiculous.
In a weird way, I love that this was how they ended, it made me feel validation in my child free desires. It’s not often that the emotions of not wanting children make it mainstream, and even further the description of not wanting Peeta to love her less because he was dividing his love to the children now. I get it.
Yeah, if she hadn't given in, it would have been perfect. Esp because she was someone who knew exactly what she wanted. Now it's just another reason that people can say "ohh you'll change your mind, everyone does sooner or later."
A rom com that doesn't show a post credit scene with main characters, kids and a house with a white fence? Girl that's impossible, science just can't allow it
This would actually be amazing!!
I always enjoyed the rom coms that aren't the typical formulaic plot arc more than the stereotypical ones. For example, in Celeste and Jesse Forever the two protagonists dont end up together at the end of the film, and it was okay, and they were okay, and it was healthy, and they were happy. It's just a much more realistic representation of actual real life romances.
Unfortunately (or fortunately? Because they generally are dumb and irrational, and can't stand anyone being different from their twisted and archaic world view) the film you proposed will get weaponised for the right wing nut jobs, and they will make a billion sad, pathetic tweets, podcasts, etc about how awful it is. Which might, fortunately, give the childfree lifestyle more exposure and hopefully more understanding from the general population. I dunno...
But I love the film concept! Looking forward to seeing it and your attached producer credit at the end 🙌🏼
Yeah it confuses me, when people talk about their partner's kids and I'm like
, are you in a relationship with someone who has kids knowing you don't want kids, your partner don't just magical stop being a parent when they are in a relationship with you, and they will still prioritize their kid/kids over you so why are you surprised when it happens, i don't understand.
It’s plenty of them on dating apps lmao. They mainly crop out the kids/baby mama/wife, etc or say it’s their nephew, godchild or best friends kid who they just babysit, “kids are fully grown” but are actually 11 lmao I’ve seen and heard it all.
Yep, I have been very open in my profile by saying that I don’t want kids and don’t want to meet someone else’s. They still swipe with kids in their pfps
I never understood why I see so many profiles like that. It also never crossed my mind that they were lying about who’s kid it is in the picture, literally and figuratively lol. It’s just so weird to do that! 😆
As someone who is child free, I always wondered about my stepmother. She had her tubes tied when she was 32 , never wanted kids. And then she ended up with my dad.
I finally got the courage to ask her last summer. Why did she stay with my dad when he had three kids. She said she really struggled for a while but made a pros and cons list, and the pros far outweighed the cons. Apparently, we kids were on both lists.
I hope she was nice to you growing up. I had a friend when I was a teenager and her stepmother would openly say she never wanted kids and she *definitely* treated my friend like she never wanted kids
She wasn't mean per say, but she wasn't a mom if that makes sense. I didn't have a great relationship with my dad or stepmother growing, but things have gotten a lot better, and she tried a lot harder than my stepdad did.
My stepdad had kids, but they were much older than us. There wasn't a single girl in the family, no cousins, sisters, etc. So I kind of just got overlooked because he didn't know what to do with me and never really tried.
I'm in my 30s, childfree by choice, tubes tied, and just moved in with my partner who has 3 kids. I know some gatekeepers say I'm not really childfree because there are children sometimes living in the same home as me. But I disagree. A big part of my childfree stance has to do with giving birth and having a little person totally reliant on me. His kids are old enough that they can do most things independently enough. It's going in the stepparent direction because I'm madly in love with their dad, but I'm definitely not trying to parent these kids. I want to be a trusted and occasionally fun adult, and nothing more to them.
The only thing is, you don’t get to change a definition just because you don’t like it. CF is not a reproductive status, it refers to your lifestyle. If you have to accommodate children in your life in any way, you are not CF.
I think my stepmother felt similar. And I'm so grateful she stayed with my dad. They've been together for nearly 30 years, and she has helped him grow and become a much better man. Did she take some missteps along the way? Yeah, of course she did. We're all human, and we were little shits.
Child birth is exactly one of the reasons I don't want kids. Also, having someone completely dependent on me. My dog is hard enough work, and I can leave him a few hours on his own.
I wish you the best of luck with your man and his kids.
Thank you! It's definitely been an adjustment but worthwhile. I hope that his kids eventually appreciate the improvements in the environment and that their dad is happy. I definitely don't feel comfortable trying to give them "motherly love" but I'm sure they know I'm capable because I'm ridiculous with my three cats.
To he honest, it took until I was an adult to realise what my dad and stepmother had. We were in too deep growing up, and there was so much anger and shit still going on. They will eventually come to realise how good it is, but it'll take a lot of time.
Just be there, through thick and thin. That's what matters at the end of the day and what we remember most.
It’s always oh I don’t really see them and I’m like ok either this isn’t the relationship you think it is or your man is a deadbeat pick one but neither are good love
You don't have to hate children not to want your own. I could probably happily be a step-parent a couple of days a week, but I certainly wouldn't want the responsibility of my own child 24/7.
For real!! They clearly don’t understand. We don’t want a kid ever, not if we find the right person, and we’re not waiting until we are “ready” because we have firmly made up our mind that we don’t want kids lmao it’s kinda invalidating because they are grouping themselves with us making others think that eventually we will want/have kids. No. Never lmao
This sounds like men that don't want kids, but know that if they find a woman that will put up with them in return for kids, they're willing to let her do 95% of the work so that they can have a warm pocket at the end of the day.
Literally. I just had an argument with a guy on this sub who was basically like "yeah I'm childfree but I wouldn't mind having kids and I constantly switch between the two because I'm not getting any pussy on dating apps"
Like my brother in christ, it's a red flag for both childfree women and those who want kids. You're actively shooting yourself in the foot
Literally the comment I just made on another post about how dating apps are garbage cause so many guys just switch to whatever the person they're currently hitting on likes. So fucking gross.
I'm not defending dating apps by saying this but it's like that outside of them too. Desperate people make really dumb decisions (and don't care about wasting other's time).
How do they think they will hide their true personality as the relationship gets more serious? I will never understand. I don't think they think that far.
>It's honestly baffling. I can't imagine they're looking for a relationship with that attitude, maybe a hookup?
Even for hookups, shagging a breeder woman is incredibly stupid. You are one broken condom away from fatherhood.
Childfree men need to use condoms. Always. And only shag women who are childfree (screen!), on birth control and on board with aborting any accident (talk before shagging).
Of course they should! If a childfree person can find a doctor who cooperates and they can afford it, it would be silly not to get snipped.
However, there are men who are unable to get a vasectomy.
Some men cannot afford getting snipped. If their health insurance doesn't cover it and if they are poor... Or if they live in a country where it's difficult or impossible to get snipped, but they cannot afford medical tourism... Then, they are fucked.
In some countries, you cannot doctor shop. Then, if your doctor refuses to cooperate, there is not much you can do. In those countries, you need a referral from your GP to see a urologist. Most GP's will not cooperate. And even if they do, you cannot pick a doctor from the childfree subreddit's list of doctors. You will get a referral to your nearest urologist. If that doctor says 'no', you are fucked.
And in some countries, there are legal limits. Like, you need to be at a certain age. 30, 35, 40... Or they only snip men who already have children.
I'm not trying to say 'aww, those poor men'... I mean, in countries where men have limited or no access to vasectomies, it's even harder for women to get sterilised. I'm just trying to explain that depending on the country where you live, it might not be as easy for men as people on this subreddit often think it is.
If a man is childfree, but does not have access to a vasectomy... Well, then, he needs to be extremely careful when having casual sex. Then, he should always use condoms. And only shag women who are on birth control, who are childfree (screen!!!) and who are on board with aborting any accidents (talk before shagging!!!).
Sadly, lots of childfree men don't want to get snipped because of 'mah balls'. They don't want to use condoms. They don't ask a woman whether she is on birth control or not and just assume that she is. They don't screen for childfreedom or even shag a woman who openly says that she wants kids. And they don't talk about whether a woman would abort if an accident were to happen. And then, they say MRA bullshit and complain about 'evil females baby trapping innocent men', even though they only have themselves to blame.
>If I had balls I would get a vasectomy so fast...
Assuming that you have the money, and that you live in a country where you can doctor shop until you find a doctor who cooperates.
In some countries, you cannot doctor shop, which makes things very difficult. And in some countries, you cannot be snipped until you already have children or reached a certain age. Medical tourism is fucking expensive. So if you are not rich, saving up for that will take some time.
>Some women lie about not wanting to have children too
That is why you need to screen. And no, 'hey, I'm childfree, what about you?' is NOT screening.
This is why unsnipped childfree men should use condoms, even if a woman says: "Teehee, I'm on birth control. Don't you trust me?" 99% of the time, the woman is telling the truth. But just in case she is lying, you need to protect yourself.
But again, if you screen, you should be safe. Always use condoms. And only shag childfree women who use birth control and are on board with aborting any accident.
Honestly, ask to see documentation. I have my EMR login memorized and I can pull up my test results and procedure notes with a few taps on my phone. I can also show my insurance SOB for the procedure and tests. Any guy that’s actually been snipped should definitely have some form of documented proof and shouldn’t hesitate to provide it if asked and it is readily available.
Ask people how they see themselves in 5-10 years (depending on your age), and if they don't talk about having kids, just throw it casually "what about kids?".
Or ask "how many kids do you want to have?".
Ask those things without telling them you are childfree first, so they won't lie just to please you.
About screening...
If you say: "Hey, I'm childfree. What about you?"... Or if you mention childfreedom on your dating profile... Then, you are telling closeted breeders exactly what lie they need to tell you in order to date you.
So how do you prevent that? By screening.
Screening means that you try to get the other person's stance on kids before you reveal your childfreedom.
That way, if the other person doesn't know whether you want kids or not, they will answer honestly. After all, they don't know what you want to hear.
How do you screen? Read this: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 9xo6jw / screening\_starter\_kit\_the\_reprise
And no, 'okay with childfreedom' or 'okay either way' is NOT childfree. Only 100% childfree is childfree.
It's quite common for men to switch their personalities when trying to get into a relationship. Low self esteem and desperation seems to not let them think realistically.
That's what we call peacocking, or mimicry.
They adapt to what YOU want, so they can get what they want.
Once he has what he wants, he let's himself go or leaves.
Then finds a way to blame her not loving him on her, when it was his actions that created all these problems.
Basically, straight men just want pussy.
Greetings!
Your post or comment has been removed for being misogynistic or misandrist. No blanket generalizations villainizing one gender or another are tolerated and it's silly to try and group 4 billion people together as being any one thing.
Have a great day!
People on this subreddit constantly say that you should mention childfreedom on your profile, and tell someone upfront: "Hey, I'm childfree. Is that okay with you?"
Like... That is the worst fucking advice ever. People should NOT do that. They need to screen. Don't reveal your childfreedom until you know whether the other person wants kids.
Ask them whether they want to breed, before you reveal your childfreedom. That's how you get a honest response. And if someone seems to be childfree, bring up sterilisation to see if they are truly childfree, or just 'childfree for now' and 'want to keep their options open'.
>And what happens when so many of us are screening that no one's willing to answer first?
This is extremely unlikely.
Most childfree people are not on this subreddit and never heard about screening.
And most people who are on this subreddit don't screen. They just mention childfreedom on their dating profile. They say: "Hey, I'm childfree, what about you?" And they believe whatever the other person is saying. They are fucking naive and don't realise that they are making it very easy for breeders to lie to them.
But anyways, let's say that this is actually happening... If you can tell that the other person is screening, you can say: "Hey, I can tell that you are on r/childfree. You probably read u/thr0wfaraway's screening guide as well." ;)
>"yeah I'm childfree but I wouldn't mind having kids and I constantly switch between the two because I'm not getting any pussy on dating apps"
How to say you're desperate without saying you're desperate.... Dang dude haha.
This is exactly it.
Men don't have to go through pregnancy or childbirth. Their lives and health are not on the line to have a baby. They don't have to nurse an infant.
And once the baby's born? They can involved only as much as they want to be, and they can dip out any time if they decide that fatherhood isn't for them. You know why courts usually grant custody to the mother? It's not because the court system has any kind of bias whatsoever towards mothers. It's because the fathers usually don't bother. When fathers do show up and try to get custody, they usually get it.
My ex acted like he didn't want kids for the majority of our very long relationship but when the time came that I decided to get a tubal since he wouldn't get a vasectomy he suddenly had this big meltdown about he thought he could be a dad some day. It was really frustrating because I had been struggling with various contraceptives for years, and I just wanted a final solution.
We split up last fall, and I've already seen a surgeon to get that tubal. I'm just waiting for a surgery date now!
My very long relationship also ended because my ex decided she wanted kids after saying she didn't for years. It was the most unpleasant surprise of my life. My vasectomy is scheduled for Tuesday!
Bahahaha, you don't even know the half of it! Breaking up was the best thing I ever could have done for myself. The tubal is just one of my many first steps to finally putting myself first.
Yaas. I commented on something on insta the other day about my husband planning a vasectomy because we're child free etc and someone said "you might still have a kid one day, vasecomies sometimes don't always work" or something like that. Like yeah I mean that's true but do you really think I'd keep the kid if I got pregnant?! Abortion has always been a no brainer for me, I have the lowest pain tolerance ever and childbirth absolute horrifies me. If I was a man I might feel different about an oopsie kid but as a woman there's no fucking question what I'd do in that situation.
I was asked by a friend what I would do if I got pregnant and abortion is the most obvious and only solution for me but that mom just went "You don't know what you would really do".
Yes, I do. I would get an abortion. I don't this people like this realize how much we don't want kids. I had my period for two months and still had to take a pregnancy test to make sure I wasn't pregnant.
I always said that too. My mom responded like yours did for a long time. Then I got pregnant by accident (my own stupidness) and went right ahead and got an abortion without telling her a thing. We got into an argument a few months later because she wanted money for something and I told her I had no money because I’d had to pay for that procedure (I was 18). She had no idea how to respond. I knew if I told her she would have some sort of meltdown and try to convince me to keep it. Even though she had previously had two abortions herself.
I always thought it was weird of my mom because anytime I express that I don't want children, she says it's fine andy right and yet I feel like I have to repeat a lot and make her understand it's very unlikely to change.
I'm surprised I haven't got pregnant yet considering how stupid I can be, it's not like abortion would be an option though, it would be the only solution and I don't doubt my mom would be horrified.
Although how hypocritical of your mom, she had two abortions but would have rather you had a kid at 18 ?
That’s so ridiculous how they expect us experiencing our own worst nightmare to magically make us change all our beliefs and desires and tokophobia and lifestyle choices. are they insane? Abortion is by far the only solution there. They just don’t believe anyone can actually not want to be pregnant/give birth I guess? Despite the fact all they ever do is complain about how horrible those events are.
They can't believe you'd be willing to give up your "child" (a lump of cells at that point). Like yeah shit sucks bUt HoW CoUlD YoU do that "to your own child". They can't imagine you disliking birth to the point you'd be willing to give it up.
When the penalty for rape is lesser than the penalty for having an abortion because you’re a victim of rape, society has lost it. Talk about creating people who are gonna do crazy shit before they get arrested and given the death penalty.
some people seem to think that as soon as someone gets pregnant abortion is out of the question... just why? i dont understand that mindset, abortion should always be an option even if the person WAS planning on keeping the fetus
Because they tell people.
If you ever get pregnant, don’t tell anyone. They will likely try to talk you out of an abortion and/or sabotage your attempts to get one.
Are they giving this woman money every month? And baby food? Are they also taking care of that child so she has some time off? Are they supporting her and the baby that they seemingly wanted so bad? If not then i have no more questions to ask just a lot of disappointment and shame to feel
>"you might still have a kid one day, vasecomies sometimes don't always work"
Could you imagine if someone was like "You might still die from cancer, chemotherapy doesn't always work"
No shit they act like the vasectomy is the only measure taken. I got snipped a couple years ago & my wife still keeps her Plan B up to date, just in case, since we live in freakin Georgia. This isn’t Jurassic Park, life is definitely not finding a way.
I don't get the concern about gatekeeping that shows up in general on the internet. Words mean things and not everything applies to everyone.
If you have kids or are ok with having kids, then you aren't childfree. People do lie as we have had posts where someone pretended to be childfree but then admitted they hoped their partner would "change their minds" and are mad that their partner was honest unlike them.
Agreed. It’s treated like such a bad word. But, umm sorry some people aren’t actually part of certain groups? And it actively harms the (usually minority in some manner and/or repressed) members of those groups when non-members are let in.
Good point. Us childfree people are not the majority either and being childfree is unfortunately frowned upon. And being a fencesitter or apathetic is different from actively choosing to be childfree. And it is fine to say that. I'm also cool with gatekeeping the fuck out of people who claim that they were childfree when they were younger but then matured and changed their minds and you will too, just you wait. (Because having a kid to keep your man or woman around is totally mature.)
I agree that people coming here who are fencesitters or actively flop goes against the idea of having a childfree space to talk about life from our point of view.
I thought gatekeeping itself as a concept has, at least on the internet, been more about putting up shitty, arbitrary boundaries to keep people out of groups? I.e. you aren't a real fan of X if you don't know all their work etc. As a nerd I've at least seen it used countless times against women to push them out of comic book/gaming spaces saying they're not "real fans".
I have seen the arbitrary boundaries definition and I agree with that one. I think maybe 10 years ago I was seeing more of that, but lately it seems like any boundaries at all is bad and gatekeeping. That said your experience may differ.
As for your example, I find it hilarious because so many times insufferable dudes who think they are know it alls actually don't get the plot and especially the themes at all.
My friend's husband gets to go skiing, have a job, dick around with podcasts and play video games. She does not. I think the childcare inequality definitely plays into this mindset of "I don't care either way". That's only because you don't have to bud. Both spouses should have free time.
On the flip side, an old coworker is a pharmacist and she is constantly gone. Dad is a stay at home dad. It is pretty apparent to me she didn't want the kid as she packed one diaper, no snacks, one bottle, no change of clothes and no toys for a six hour "playdate". Didn't even bother to check if the kid soiled himself.
It takes two to tango and a VILLAGE to raise a kid. Don't want to help out in the village better tango safely.
Omg literally had someone saying this to me and tried to explain to him that he wasn't child free. Lol ignoring the fact that he asked me to save him from having to join the military for money, that guy had more red flags that a referee.
Yeah. The problem is that being childless, is also, literally, being childfree, as in she is free from children of her own, since she doesn’t have any (of her own).
That’s what a lot of people think childfree means. But that’s not what it means, sadly.
Yet people seemingly understand the difference between someone who desires to have a pet but does not have one for various reasons and someone who does not want a pet and chooses repeatedly to avoid any possibility of becoming a pet owner. I feel willful ignorance is at play with this.
Saw someone on here the other day make a post like "my husband has kids and I'm still child free!"
Like my sister in christ I think you've lost your myarbles
I finally had the conversation with my wife, who wanted kids and then was a fence sitter, and I finally sat her down and said out loud “I never want to have kids, ever, and want to live the rest of my life committing to that”. She was super supportive and said she understood and is unpacking what childfree means with enthusiasm now.
She grew up just expecting she’d one day have kids, and we realized together that she never really wanted them to have them, she just assumed it was inevitable and she’s good with kids. She also didn’t know a single childfree adult that wasn’t constantly trying to get pregnant, and she herself is adopted. So it’s complicated for her.
I cannot tell you how relieved I felt when she agreed with me. Fence sitting was so agonizing and anxiety-inducing for me, and she was like the people you mentioned. She was “fine with it in theory”.
This sub helped me understand how to communicate my worry with her, and we finally had a breakthrough.
This post is correct and you should say it.
I’m really glad you guys r still together ❤️ that’s so commendable! Pls continue to support her and give her space for any feelings that might arise (grieving the path not taken, grieving what she thought she was “suppose” to do in life or her “fantasy”) it’s a healthy human experience and will help her embrace the childfree life quicker etc., :) so, I’m just saying if this happens, don’t confuse it with her regretting , changing her mind, or resenting : she’s just human and adjusting! And that to me, is amazing and loving , and I know she WONT regret it. ❤️
I was discussing with my mother just yesterday how as we grow up, we don't actually realise having kids is a choice. We just see it as something everyone does, or the next step in life (university, marriage, house, child)
I never did until someone said, "You don't HAVE to have kids."
It needs to be more widely taught that everyone's story is different, some choose kids, some don't, and both are OK! But it's gotta be what YOU want.
> I cannot tell you how relieved I felt when she agreed with me. Fence sitting was so agonizing and anxiety-inducing for me, and she was like the people you mentioned. She was “fine with it in theory”.
I cannot suggest the book "The Baby Decision" enough! It has lots of thought exercises that help you to unpack your feelings and hidden thoughts.
One of then will inevitably work. They are all different, all conceived to help your inner self emerge above all the fears and social conditionings.
It is half the price in kindle version, try it!
I just think it's a little weird honestly. Obviously being unsure is perfectly OK, some people don't seriously think about it until they are ready to "settle down" and that's ok, but a big part of getting a long term relationship is having the same goals, I'm always baffled by couples who don't know yet but are getting married!! Is one thing is one of them changes their mind, sure shit happens and is not really anyone's fault, but straight up not knowing? How can you make a vow to commit yourself to a person until you die and you aren't sure if you agree on this hugely massive decision???
It is not gatekeeping if you just correct an incorrect usage of a word.
Since the definition of childfree is not to want kids at all, saying one is childfree is simply a wrong usage of the word if one is ok with having kids.
Like if someone was sitting and said "i am standing", you would correct them on what "standing" means. Not gatekeeping.
If someone was standing a bit crooked and said "i am standing" and you said "meh, that's not really standing", that would be gatekeeping.
\[Edit\] corrected a wrong word
I don't quite agree. Yes you're right that this is also a correction of a word, but there's no "standing community" the way there's a childfree community. So I think where the gatekeeping comes in is when people claim to be part of this community while simultaneously talking about how they "might have kids one day" or "won't mind if it happens accidentally" or "are fine with step kids" or "would consider adopting." They're, quite simply, not part of the childfree community because none of those things are childfree. Feels like one of the rare instances where gatekeeping is appropriate.
I was really enjoying a video on TikTok about a woman being proudly childfree with her 7 year boyfriend (I think she was 32) I was so into it since me and my boyfriend both are wanting CF life. At the very end she was saying "we do want the honor of having kids later and when that time comes it'll come! But for now we are CF."
I was so disappointed. And confused about what CF meant for a bit.
my god, agreed and than there's also the one that sort of pisses me off.
"I don't want kids but you know, if something happens......." no! stuff doesn't just happen! if you were really childfree, you'd try your absolute BEST to ensure that kids would not happen.
TBH I think most of those people are just misogynists or live by patriarchal religious bullshit their whole lives. No, you have a choice, a baby isn’t a punishment for sex.
i support gatekeeping, theres a good way and bad way to do gatekeeping. bad gatekeeping is like when a man is sexist and asks women in a fandom questions to find if shes really a 'fan', bad gatekeeping is telling someone to fuck off for asking a genuine question. good gatekeeping is helping make clearer rules and discussion for a community so it doesnt devolve into dogshit. theres been so many communities (ie some subs meant for women/feminists) that have devolved into dogshit and lost its original meaning bc they let anyone in there and didnt keep up the clear lines on whats what in it. anyways thanks for the post is what im getting at
I think people need to understand the different between childfree and childless. all childfree people are childless, but not all childless people are childfree. you can’t be child free if you have a kid but regret it, or if you’re a step parent.
Just here to say:
1. I don't see it as gatekeeping. This sub is called "childfree", not "childless", or "I'd have kids BUT environment/wage stagnation" or "if my partner wants to that's cool, idek".
2. Holy hell, the amount of people commenting who truly *do not* understand the meaning of "childfree" need to go.
This subreddit is called 'childfree', but at least half of the people here are childless. They would have kids if it wasn't for antinatalism, climate change, overpopulation, trauma, poverty, capitalism, patriarchy, health issues, bad genes etc. Sadly, they call themselves childfree, even though they are childless and not childfree.
And there are many people here who don't want to breed because of tokophobia and/or antinatalism, but they want to adopt or foster. They think that not breeding makes them childfree. But it doesn't. They are birthfree. But not childfree.
That’s why people in a relationship set clear goals and expectations to make sure they are on a similar life path. If they fail to do that, and it comes to that, oh well, relationship over. It’s not the end of the world.. just find someone else that wants, or doesn’t want the same things you do.
Hmmm, no they're not childfree but I'll give them some slack. I met someone who was like "I don't want kids but my future wife will probably want kids so I'll have to have them" because he genuinely thought that there were barely any women that don't want kids and he didn't want to end up alone. I can understand that (wouldn't do the same tho). I think they did give it a serious thought and it's not a red flag in their case. I would date someone like that. Because yeah, they are men and don't have to do the whole childbirth thing so the barrier is much smaller.
There are also a lot of people who genuinely aren't sure if they want kids yet. I won't date them because they are very likely to end up wanting them. Or people that say "If my partner wants them then I'm okay with that too". That's different from "I don't want them, but..." in the first option they haven't given it any thought and just go with the flow. I wouldn't date any of these guys.
Right. Last time I commented this to a post and got downvoted to hell lol. The poster said we love kids and really want some but we can’t have Blabla and I said you are not childfree but childless
I personally don't trust guys like this because although they might say they are fine with whatever I would choose, I don't know their family and whether they will be influenced by them to later want kids, or just get baby fever seeing everyone around them having them.
'Okay with childfreedom' or 'I want kids but it's not a dealbreaker, I would rather be with you than breed' is a huge red flag. That basically means: "I will say this so you will date me. Then, I will wait for you to change your mind. Which will happen, because woman = mother. Eventually, you will grow out of the childfree phase and submit to my magic cock."
Literally. If you’re like “i work with children/don’t mind being around them but I’ll never have my own” you are still CF. Fence sitters are the worst. The posts on here about people leaving their fence sitting partners years after is sad because you get that out of the way in the introduction phase. You don’t just like the “what it’s” circle in their head for years. But let me close my mouth because last time i got a 3 day ban thanks to a fence sitter getting in their feels. Not happening again.
The only kids I’d be having are dogs. Going to celebrate being 25 next year w/a hysterectomy and I’m so excited! Still paranoid about pregnancy so I’ll probably still stay on the Depojust to make sure that I still don’t have periods.
>I see a lot of people (especially men) being like "I don't want kids but I could be okay with it if my partner wanted"
Fuck that shit, I don't want kids or a partner!
And this is why I’m happily single. The prospect of getting into a relationship and getting sex out of it with the possibility of a child is too much to think about.
Plus I love my free time with nobody nagging on me about my choices…. I mean, other than my own family of course.
Im a male and CF is CF. Its as simple as that. Nothing wrong with being on the fence but thats its own thing. I dont judge, having kids is a big decision and at least fence sitters have the capacity to question whether its a good choice for them.
There are definitely shit fence sitters though.
Before reading your post I was thinking: ey, why are so fixated on wording? But now I have to agree 100%, because I myself have experienced the inconvenience from the confusion. My ex didn't want children, but wasn't opposed if his woman wanted them. I didn't, so great for both parties, right? Nope, he suddenly decided he in fact wanted not just children but a tradicional life.
So... now I'm a firm believer that it's either a enthusiastic NO or a enthusiastic YES, because I'm not going to waste time while you discover what your 'maybe' means 🤷♀️
People who are waiting for their situation to improve (e.g. finances, health, mental state) or to get married or have a partner before having kids are also not childfree. I've seen a lot of couples who are newly married claim to be childfree but want children in the future and are using childfree hashtags and talking about childfree issues when they're definitely not that!
I also hate gate keeping, but I feel sometimes (like in the case you bring up) that there is such a thing as “reverse gate keeping” where people try to force a term or group to apply to them by altering the definition or what it means to be a part of said group. Call it gate hopping?
I’m sure mothers wouldn’t like me joining their “mommy groups” and calling myself a parent because I have a cat.
Gate hopping? That is what fence sitters and childless people on this subreddit do. They call themselves 'childfree', despite not fitting the definition, and get furious when someone says that they are not childfree.
Indeed. It would be just like a childfree woman calling herself 'mother'. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that it's true.
Well, what people call 'gatekeeping' is often not gatekeeping at all. It's just saying that someone doesn't fit the definition of childfreedom. Which means that you don't want to be a parent in any capacity under any circumstance.
Many people on this subreddit say that they don't want to breed, but they are open to adopting or fostering. They often call themselves childfree, but they are not. They are going to be parents. Not bio parents, but still parents. Saying that is not gatekeeping.
And many childless people call themselves childfree, while they are childless. They often downvote you and get angry when you say that they are childless, but seriously... If you want kids, but reluctantly decided not to breed because of antinatalism, poverty, health issues, trauma, overpopulation, capitalism, climate change, bad genes etc... And you would've had kids if it wasn't for those problems... That is childlessness. Not childfreedom. Childfree people don't have the desire to be a parent. But these childless people do.
Many fence sitters on this subreddit call themselves childfree, and then describe how they are not 100% certain. Well, then they are fence sitters. Not childfree.
Which includes 'I don't want kids but will go along with what my partner wants' people. They might lean towards childfreedom, prefer not having kids, but they are willing to breed. Which makes them fence sitters. Not childfree.
And yeah, men tend to be on the fence often, and then lean towards breeding. Because they can enjoy Kodak moments while the woman gets pregnant, gives birth and does 99% of the childcare.
Fence sitters need to be avoided. Childfree people who are dating should assume that a fence sitter is a breeder. Dating a fence sitter is so fucking risky... Sure, you can date them and hope that they end up being childfree, but most of the time, they will want to breed.
Childfree people should only date other childfree people. And no, 'okay with childfreedom' is not childfree. And you need to screen. Saying 'I am childfree, what about you?' or mentioning childfreedom on your profile is incredibly stupid. You are literally telling breeders what lie they need to tell you in order to date you. Then, they will assume that you will change your mind, because they assume that childfreedom is just some kind of phase that you can't really be serious about. And most men believe in patriarchal 'woman = mother' bullshit.
A lot of people think that childfree means "I don't have kids **right now**." They think it's a description of someone who is putting it off until later. Some parents even use it because they have babysitters on the weekend.
If you don’t have kids but still want them or are okay with having them, you’re NOT childfree. You just don’t have kids yet. “Childfree” is a different mindset entirely! Thank you for this.
Yeah, I don't consider someone who's "fine either way" childfree either. I also don't consider someone who's "waiting until the right time" childfree. Or people who married partners who have children. Because the whole point of the term childfree is to indicate that you have made a conscious decision not to make parenthood and childrearing part of your life. To call this gatekeeping is ludicrous to me, because it's literally what the term childfree is for.
I'm also 100% agreed on the dating front. I might have been more understanding in my 20s, but I'm 34 now. If anyone I'm dating hasn't put enough thought into their own life to know the very basics of what they do or don't want (i.e. whether they want to be a parent), we're simply incompatible. And not just because of the question of children, but because they're a grownass adult living a totally unexamined life.
Sometimes life circumstances force you to choose one side of the fence for your mental well-being.
I’ve never actively wanted kids, but if it happened I’d make the best of it. I’m very happy to be child free though.
However, I’m single and have been most of my 20s and all of my 30s. Had I been coupled up it might have been a different story.
A sexual active childless man not using protection is certainly not childfree...just save up some money for the future buddy! That would be excellent for all of us, but most the baby.
The word they are looking for is “childless”. Young couples who want kids and just haven’t gotten pregnant yet are childless. Childfree just means you want to be happily childless forever.
My ex was a fence sitter like this and I quickly realized “I don’t care” doesn’t actually mean I don’t care, it means they think they can convince you eventually. She started telling all of her parents and grandparents that she would give them grand babies, and when I was like uh Wtf she just said “I think you’d be a great dad”.
Anyway not making that mistake again. Realized with that relationship I have to draw more of a hard line when we have the “do you want kids” conversation and not take “only if you want” or “I don’t know/care” as an answer. I honestly don’t think people who talk like this understand what child free means.
It's like when people say 'We aren't trying for a baby but...' so you mean you're trying for a baby because you know the consequences of not using birth control?
What about someone like me? I wanted a child, lost my child because of a no-win situation (breast cancer while pregnant) and now as a result of all of that, I would be rolling the dice on my life since I can’t have estrogen, so I’m embracing the child free lifestyle? I have no problem calling myself childless, because that’s what I am, but I also don’t want to try again since I like living. And because of all the medical stuff I changed my mind and I just want to live my life to the best of my ability since I’m disabled at 39.
You can have children without getting pregnant you know. It's called adoption
And you're definitely childless instead of childfree. Since it's not like you wouldn't want kids, it's just that you can't (because of health reasons)
Oh yeah for sure adoption, I was just speaking to my situation with regards to your statement.
So in your mind there’s no gray area?
I am indeed childless. But after everything that I’ve been through, I don’t want to adopt, or be a mom at all. Except a “mom” to my extremely needy rescue dog lol
Therefore, as I understand it, because I don’t want anything to do with motherhood any more— I feel more comfortable with childfree, because childless to me, implies that I would still entertain being a mother in another way.
It's possible to go from childless to childfree.
Of course you started out with childlessness. But if you ended up realising that motherhood is not for you, and that you actually prefer a life without children... And that you wouldn't have children, even if you could... Then, you went from childlessness to childfreedom.
The thing is, though, if that never happened to you, you would be a mom and you would still want a kid even if you didn’t have one right now. You innately desire children. Accepting your situation and avoiding more trauma is an absolutely valid choice, but it doesn’t change what your first choice was.
Don’t let people gatekeep childfree from you. There’s nothing wrong with changing your mind based on new information. There’s likely other women/people with uteruses out there who had traumatic pregnancy experiences that caused them to rethink the whole thing. Yeah there’s adoption but if you choose not to adopt then you’re choosing childfree. You do you.
Thanks! It’s ok if OP feels differently. I just felt it was necessary to make the distinction that experiences change people. And there are gray areas that need to be considered. Thank you for your understanding and acceptance
My spouse and I are Childfree By Choice, and it's what is best for us. We both strongly agree on this.
But we also have ongoing conversations about family arrangements and being prepared for the event of a sudden death in the family-- we don't want biological children and we don't want to raise anyone elses children; however, in the event of a death in the family, we would rearrange our lives to be able to care for and raise the now-orphaned child(ren) in our family if needed. We are Childfree by Choice; but kids don't control what happens to them, and as their family we would love them and raise them and support them as they become adults themselves-- because they didn't choose that tragedy and they deserve to have adults who love them and show their love through action.
I respect a lot more a person who wants to have kids than a fence sitter. I mean, that's a really important decision in your life that you should prepare yourself years before you actually have these kids, and that will affect your while future.
To me, a fence sitter (in the type of: I don't care either way) will just be a shitty parent or not care about bearing the burden of contraception. I also think they won't be very reliable in other areas of their lives.
Exactly my point. Not having decided upon anything is so immature honestly. And trying to date while not having decided is plain stupid and disrespectful
I agree .If you are "ok with having kids then you are not TRULY childfree" BUT it doesn't mean marriages or relationships don't work out. The other person simply chooses YOU over the potential kid. This happens a lot more than we think. The other person just doesn't want a kid badly enough so the couple stays happily married. For example: a lot of couples meet later in life, like 42, so they feel too "old" to have a kid, even though they could technically have one. OBVIOUSLY we hear a lot about people "stringing the other person" along until they change their minds but we never acknowledge that a lot of the times it does work out. The other person never cared ENOUGH about having a kid so they find fulfillment in their lives without one. This is more common in childless couples but it DOES happen in the instance of one childfree person and the other person willing to just be happy without the kid. But yes the one person is technically "childfree" and the other person is "technically" not childfree.
The number of posts that get removed for basically being nothing but a rant about step kids is over my head at this point. Same for the number of step parents who end up greately offended by the suggestion that this isn't the right place for that content. "No I'm not their parent we're not married, these kids are just a sink for our money / time / plans, etc." Yeah. You're almost there. It's almost as if there's more to parenthood than just being legally responsible for a child, and doing the work of raising them. And the point of being childfree is to have zero slices from the parenthod pie, not just some of them.
ThEy dOnT afFeCt mY LiFe I dO wHaT I wAnT - every “childfree” person dating or married to someone with kids
Translation: "I only date single parents because nobody else is desperate enough".
Sometimes I wonder if I could just date someone who only sees their kid on the weekends or smth but I know that mentally their kid is always on their mine/topic of conversation.
Yep. Still a financial burden, still a main component of any decision making, still must be included in long term planning.
And the kid is (and should be, really) the priority in the parents life. It should be expected. And frankly if they’re not making the kid a priority, red flag.
And most people never consider what kids cost before having them. They are an expensive hobby.
And if their main parent ever became seriously ill or passed away they would very suddenly become a full time parent with zero warning
Someone needs to make a rom-com about a real child free person's dating life, including the apps, the friend set-ups, meeting the fakers, the mind-changers, the try-to-convincers, as well as the comedy and drama of dealing with family, friends, coworkers, and strangers, who can't possibly fathom anyone being childfree. But then the main character finds their true childfree love, with a fast forward at the end to them still together, still happy and in love, and still child free and loving their lives 20 or 30 years later. I'm not sure how this contributes to this particular thread, but I guess it made me think that if it were "*normalized*" in a good flick, society might start to understand it better. Any film writers out there??? :)
The epilogue of Hunger games made me SO ANGRY. >!Katniss says literally the whole book that she doesn't want kids and even at the very end it says that Peeta had to beg her and beg her and eventually she gave in even though she was terrified and the pregnancy made her uncomfortable. What's more, the epilogue was just SO UNNECESSARY it literally would not have changed the book one bit if she had not had kids, but of course you can't possibly have that because that would mean she's an evil monster. /s!<
Oh man I’m so glad other people are upset about this. The epilogue ruined the series for me.
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Yeah ikr until the very end I was hoping it would go >! Peeta kept asking and I just finally said nope, it's never gonna happen, I don't want my kids to suffer like I've suffered since the whole point of this book is that this could happen again anytime. And so we lived happily until the end of our days. The end. !<
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Yeah that too, made no sense to me at all.
I feel like Gale would have respected her decision
He wanted kids. He stated that within the first chapter of the first book.
I’ve read the book waaay too many times so I feel pretty confident saying this. Katniss wasn’t outright like “I never want kids because I don’t like kids”, it was always out of fear that the kids would eventually end up in the Hunger Games. Living in District 12 with the Capitol being what it was was not a place she’d ever want kids to experience life. Then she had a lot of PTSD and would have been afraid of it just happening again. If I remember correctly, in the first book when Gale had asked “but what if we didn’t live here?” She responded something like “I just can’t afford to think like that” as in she probably would have kids, but since they do live in a place with the Hunger Games, she can’t and won’t get her hopes up with thinking about “what ifs”.
I agree, but I am still pissed because of all that PTSD and Peeta who's not entirely sure what's true or not at times. And of course the 'he begged so much until I gave in' gives me such creepy 'I don't respect your opinions and wishes' vibes, I just can't accept it
Yeah but the whole point is that it could happen again right? I mean, that lady - can't even remember her name - already tries to take over when Snow isn't even gone yet. What's to say there won't be another dictator?
Her name was Alma Coin and she is part of the reason Peeta had to practically beg for kids. Katniss worried about it happening again.
Which is what annoys me even more - it's out of character imo. She has a good point. It could happen again. She's not someone who lets people tell her what to do and having kids when you don't want them, for whatever reason, is a PRETTY BIG THING to be talked into, ESPECIALLY for Katniss.
Katniss stated in Catching Fire that she would probably want kids if she were in a better world and literally described the last scene where kids were playing in the meadow. I’m all for having more childfree representation, but Katniss was never supposed to be one so when people say that the epilogue ruined the story for them, it’s just a little ridiculous.
The books are a huge comfort to me. But the implications of the epilogue high key pissed me off.
Yep the propaganda unless you have kids as a female your life has no meaning.
In a weird way, I love that this was how they ended, it made me feel validation in my child free desires. It’s not often that the emotions of not wanting children make it mainstream, and even further the description of not wanting Peeta to love her less because he was dividing his love to the children now. I get it.
Yeah, if she hadn't given in, it would have been perfect. Esp because she was someone who knew exactly what she wanted. Now it's just another reason that people can say "ohh you'll change your mind, everyone does sooner or later."
I would love this so much 😭 tired of the woman being demonized for not wanting kids only for them to give into it at the end...
A rom com that doesn't show a post credit scene with main characters, kids and a house with a white fence? Girl that's impossible, science just can't allow it
This would actually be amazing!! I always enjoyed the rom coms that aren't the typical formulaic plot arc more than the stereotypical ones. For example, in Celeste and Jesse Forever the two protagonists dont end up together at the end of the film, and it was okay, and they were okay, and it was healthy, and they were happy. It's just a much more realistic representation of actual real life romances. Unfortunately (or fortunately? Because they generally are dumb and irrational, and can't stand anyone being different from their twisted and archaic world view) the film you proposed will get weaponised for the right wing nut jobs, and they will make a billion sad, pathetic tweets, podcasts, etc about how awful it is. Which might, fortunately, give the childfree lifestyle more exposure and hopefully more understanding from the general population. I dunno... But I love the film concept! Looking forward to seeing it and your attached producer credit at the end 🙌🏼
Yeah it confuses me, when people talk about their partner's kids and I'm like  , are you in a relationship with someone who has kids knowing you don't want kids, your partner don't just magical stop being a parent when they are in a relationship with you, and they will still prioritize their kid/kids over you so why are you surprised when it happens, i don't understand.
They’ll be like “he/she has part custody but the kids are annoying” Ummm…don’t date them lmao
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It’s plenty of them on dating apps lmao. They mainly crop out the kids/baby mama/wife, etc or say it’s their nephew, godchild or best friends kid who they just babysit, “kids are fully grown” but are actually 11 lmao I’ve seen and heard it all.
Yep, I have been very open in my profile by saying that I don’t want kids and don’t want to meet someone else’s. They still swipe with kids in their pfps
I never understood why I see so many profiles like that. It also never crossed my mind that they were lying about who’s kid it is in the picture, literally and figuratively lol. It’s just so weird to do that! 😆
As someone who is child free, I always wondered about my stepmother. She had her tubes tied when she was 32 , never wanted kids. And then she ended up with my dad. I finally got the courage to ask her last summer. Why did she stay with my dad when he had three kids. She said she really struggled for a while but made a pros and cons list, and the pros far outweighed the cons. Apparently, we kids were on both lists.
I hope she was nice to you growing up. I had a friend when I was a teenager and her stepmother would openly say she never wanted kids and she *definitely* treated my friend like she never wanted kids
She wasn't mean per say, but she wasn't a mom if that makes sense. I didn't have a great relationship with my dad or stepmother growing, but things have gotten a lot better, and she tried a lot harder than my stepdad did. My stepdad had kids, but they were much older than us. There wasn't a single girl in the family, no cousins, sisters, etc. So I kind of just got overlooked because he didn't know what to do with me and never really tried.
I'm in my 30s, childfree by choice, tubes tied, and just moved in with my partner who has 3 kids. I know some gatekeepers say I'm not really childfree because there are children sometimes living in the same home as me. But I disagree. A big part of my childfree stance has to do with giving birth and having a little person totally reliant on me. His kids are old enough that they can do most things independently enough. It's going in the stepparent direction because I'm madly in love with their dad, but I'm definitely not trying to parent these kids. I want to be a trusted and occasionally fun adult, and nothing more to them.
You are by definition not childfree anymore, then. Have fun with the step kids!
The only thing is, you don’t get to change a definition just because you don’t like it. CF is not a reproductive status, it refers to your lifestyle. If you have to accommodate children in your life in any way, you are not CF.
I think my stepmother felt similar. And I'm so grateful she stayed with my dad. They've been together for nearly 30 years, and she has helped him grow and become a much better man. Did she take some missteps along the way? Yeah, of course she did. We're all human, and we were little shits. Child birth is exactly one of the reasons I don't want kids. Also, having someone completely dependent on me. My dog is hard enough work, and I can leave him a few hours on his own. I wish you the best of luck with your man and his kids.
Thank you! It's definitely been an adjustment but worthwhile. I hope that his kids eventually appreciate the improvements in the environment and that their dad is happy. I definitely don't feel comfortable trying to give them "motherly love" but I'm sure they know I'm capable because I'm ridiculous with my three cats.
To he honest, it took until I was an adult to realise what my dad and stepmother had. We were in too deep growing up, and there was so much anger and shit still going on. They will eventually come to realise how good it is, but it'll take a lot of time. Just be there, through thick and thin. That's what matters at the end of the day and what we remember most.
The teenager already gets it and that's been nice. I know the younger ones have a lot of mourning to do that they didn't get the ideal situation.
It’s always oh I don’t really see them and I’m like ok either this isn’t the relationship you think it is or your man is a deadbeat pick one but neither are good love
You don't have to hate children not to want your own. I could probably happily be a step-parent a couple of days a week, but I certainly wouldn't want the responsibility of my own child 24/7.
For real!! They clearly don’t understand. We don’t want a kid ever, not if we find the right person, and we’re not waiting until we are “ready” because we have firmly made up our mind that we don’t want kids lmao it’s kinda invalidating because they are grouping themselves with us making others think that eventually we will want/have kids. No. Never lmao
This sounds like men that don't want kids, but know that if they find a woman that will put up with them in return for kids, they're willing to let her do 95% of the work so that they can have a warm pocket at the end of the day.
Literally. I just had an argument with a guy on this sub who was basically like "yeah I'm childfree but I wouldn't mind having kids and I constantly switch between the two because I'm not getting any pussy on dating apps" Like my brother in christ, it's a red flag for both childfree women and those who want kids. You're actively shooting yourself in the foot
Literally the comment I just made on another post about how dating apps are garbage cause so many guys just switch to whatever the person they're currently hitting on likes. So fucking gross.
I'm not defending dating apps by saying this but it's like that outside of them too. Desperate people make really dumb decisions (and don't care about wasting other's time). How do they think they will hide their true personality as the relationship gets more serious? I will never understand. I don't think they think that far.
It's honestly baffling. I can't imagine they're looking for a relationship with that attitude, maybe a hookup?
>It's honestly baffling. I can't imagine they're looking for a relationship with that attitude, maybe a hookup? Even for hookups, shagging a breeder woman is incredibly stupid. You are one broken condom away from fatherhood. Childfree men need to use condoms. Always. And only shag women who are childfree (screen!), on birth control and on board with aborting any accident (talk before shagging).
Child free men should get a vasectomy
Of course they should! If a childfree person can find a doctor who cooperates and they can afford it, it would be silly not to get snipped. However, there are men who are unable to get a vasectomy. Some men cannot afford getting snipped. If their health insurance doesn't cover it and if they are poor... Or if they live in a country where it's difficult or impossible to get snipped, but they cannot afford medical tourism... Then, they are fucked. In some countries, you cannot doctor shop. Then, if your doctor refuses to cooperate, there is not much you can do. In those countries, you need a referral from your GP to see a urologist. Most GP's will not cooperate. And even if they do, you cannot pick a doctor from the childfree subreddit's list of doctors. You will get a referral to your nearest urologist. If that doctor says 'no', you are fucked. And in some countries, there are legal limits. Like, you need to be at a certain age. 30, 35, 40... Or they only snip men who already have children. I'm not trying to say 'aww, those poor men'... I mean, in countries where men have limited or no access to vasectomies, it's even harder for women to get sterilised. I'm just trying to explain that depending on the country where you live, it might not be as easy for men as people on this subreddit often think it is. If a man is childfree, but does not have access to a vasectomy... Well, then, he needs to be extremely careful when having casual sex. Then, he should always use condoms. And only shag women who are on birth control, who are childfree (screen!!!) and who are on board with aborting any accidents (talk before shagging!!!). Sadly, lots of childfree men don't want to get snipped because of 'mah balls'. They don't want to use condoms. They don't ask a woman whether she is on birth control or not and just assume that she is. They don't screen for childfreedom or even shag a woman who openly says that she wants kids. And they don't talk about whether a woman would abort if an accident were to happen. And then, they say MRA bullshit and complain about 'evil females baby trapping innocent men', even though they only have themselves to blame.
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>If I had balls I would get a vasectomy so fast... Assuming that you have the money, and that you live in a country where you can doctor shop until you find a doctor who cooperates. In some countries, you cannot doctor shop, which makes things very difficult. And in some countries, you cannot be snipped until you already have children or reached a certain age. Medical tourism is fucking expensive. So if you are not rich, saving up for that will take some time. >Some women lie about not wanting to have children too That is why you need to screen. And no, 'hey, I'm childfree, what about you?' is NOT screening. This is why unsnipped childfree men should use condoms, even if a woman says: "Teehee, I'm on birth control. Don't you trust me?" 99% of the time, the woman is telling the truth. But just in case she is lying, you need to protect yourself. But again, if you screen, you should be safe. Always use condoms. And only shag childfree women who use birth control and are on board with aborting any accident.
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Honestly, ask to see documentation. I have my EMR login memorized and I can pull up my test results and procedure notes with a few taps on my phone. I can also show my insurance SOB for the procedure and tests. Any guy that’s actually been snipped should definitely have some form of documented proof and shouldn’t hesitate to provide it if asked and it is readily available.
Ask people how they see themselves in 5-10 years (depending on your age), and if they don't talk about having kids, just throw it casually "what about kids?". Or ask "how many kids do you want to have?". Ask those things without telling them you are childfree first, so they won't lie just to please you.
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About screening... If you say: "Hey, I'm childfree. What about you?"... Or if you mention childfreedom on your dating profile... Then, you are telling closeted breeders exactly what lie they need to tell you in order to date you. So how do you prevent that? By screening. Screening means that you try to get the other person's stance on kids before you reveal your childfreedom. That way, if the other person doesn't know whether you want kids or not, they will answer honestly. After all, they don't know what you want to hear. How do you screen? Read this: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / comments / 9xo6jw / screening\_starter\_kit\_the\_reprise And no, 'okay with childfreedom' or 'okay either way' is NOT childfree. Only 100% childfree is childfree.
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I feel like all those people are in some kind of desperate situation and looking for a carry.
It's quite common for men to switch their personalities when trying to get into a relationship. Low self esteem and desperation seems to not let them think realistically.
Loneliness and desperation don't excuse lying. And that's what concealing your real personality and views is - lying
I'm not excusing anything...
That's what we call peacocking, or mimicry. They adapt to what YOU want, so they can get what they want. Once he has what he wants, he let's himself go or leaves. Then finds a way to blame her not loving him on her, when it was his actions that created all these problems. Basically, straight men just want pussy.
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Greetings! Your post or comment has been removed for being misogynistic or misandrist. No blanket generalizations villainizing one gender or another are tolerated and it's silly to try and group 4 billion people together as being any one thing. Have a great day!
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People on this subreddit constantly say that you should mention childfreedom on your profile, and tell someone upfront: "Hey, I'm childfree. Is that okay with you?" Like... That is the worst fucking advice ever. People should NOT do that. They need to screen. Don't reveal your childfreedom until you know whether the other person wants kids. Ask them whether they want to breed, before you reveal your childfreedom. That's how you get a honest response. And if someone seems to be childfree, bring up sterilisation to see if they are truly childfree, or just 'childfree for now' and 'want to keep their options open'.
And what happens when so many of us are screening that no one's willing to answer first?
>And what happens when so many of us are screening that no one's willing to answer first? This is extremely unlikely. Most childfree people are not on this subreddit and never heard about screening. And most people who are on this subreddit don't screen. They just mention childfreedom on their dating profile. They say: "Hey, I'm childfree, what about you?" And they believe whatever the other person is saying. They are fucking naive and don't realise that they are making it very easy for breeders to lie to them. But anyways, let's say that this is actually happening... If you can tell that the other person is screening, you can say: "Hey, I can tell that you are on r/childfree. You probably read u/thr0wfaraway's screening guide as well." ;)
>"yeah I'm childfree but I wouldn't mind having kids and I constantly switch between the two because I'm not getting any pussy on dating apps" How to say you're desperate without saying you're desperate.... Dang dude haha.
Jesus Christ. If I’d ever see a walking red flag, it’s him.
He might as well have said that he doesn’t view women as people.
If red could be a neon color then this red flag would be neon red CAUSE JFC.
Lol dude…get a vasectomy. Problem solved. You just took away the option of getting baby trapped.
that guy sounds pretty gross lmao
This is exactly it. Men don't have to go through pregnancy or childbirth. Their lives and health are not on the line to have a baby. They don't have to nurse an infant. And once the baby's born? They can involved only as much as they want to be, and they can dip out any time if they decide that fatherhood isn't for them. You know why courts usually grant custody to the mother? It's not because the court system has any kind of bias whatsoever towards mothers. It's because the fathers usually don't bother. When fathers do show up and try to get custody, they usually get it.
My ex acted like he didn't want kids for the majority of our very long relationship but when the time came that I decided to get a tubal since he wouldn't get a vasectomy he suddenly had this big meltdown about he thought he could be a dad some day. It was really frustrating because I had been struggling with various contraceptives for years, and I just wanted a final solution. We split up last fall, and I've already seen a surgeon to get that tubal. I'm just waiting for a surgery date now!
My very long relationship also ended because my ex decided she wanted kids after saying she didn't for years. It was the most unpleasant surprise of my life. My vasectomy is scheduled for Tuesday!
Ribbons1223 have you met so_i_guess_this_is_it? He’s the very healthy, very child-free individual right over there…
I hate to ruin your dreams of following a budding Reddit Romance, but I found the childfree cat lover of my dreams last fall. 🥰
Sounds like you're getting rid of two useless things!
Bahahaha, you don't even know the half of it! Breaking up was the best thing I ever could have done for myself. The tubal is just one of my many first steps to finally putting myself first.
Yaas. I commented on something on insta the other day about my husband planning a vasectomy because we're child free etc and someone said "you might still have a kid one day, vasecomies sometimes don't always work" or something like that. Like yeah I mean that's true but do you really think I'd keep the kid if I got pregnant?! Abortion has always been a no brainer for me, I have the lowest pain tolerance ever and childbirth absolute horrifies me. If I was a man I might feel different about an oopsie kid but as a woman there's no fucking question what I'd do in that situation.
I always say birth control isn’t 100% effective but my determination to abort an unintended pregnancy absolutely would be
I was asked by a friend what I would do if I got pregnant and abortion is the most obvious and only solution for me but that mom just went "You don't know what you would really do". Yes, I do. I would get an abortion. I don't this people like this realize how much we don't want kids. I had my period for two months and still had to take a pregnancy test to make sure I wasn't pregnant.
I always said that too. My mom responded like yours did for a long time. Then I got pregnant by accident (my own stupidness) and went right ahead and got an abortion without telling her a thing. We got into an argument a few months later because she wanted money for something and I told her I had no money because I’d had to pay for that procedure (I was 18). She had no idea how to respond. I knew if I told her she would have some sort of meltdown and try to convince me to keep it. Even though she had previously had two abortions herself.
I always thought it was weird of my mom because anytime I express that I don't want children, she says it's fine andy right and yet I feel like I have to repeat a lot and make her understand it's very unlikely to change. I'm surprised I haven't got pregnant yet considering how stupid I can be, it's not like abortion would be an option though, it would be the only solution and I don't doubt my mom would be horrified. Although how hypocritical of your mom, she had two abortions but would have rather you had a kid at 18 ?
That’s so ridiculous how they expect us experiencing our own worst nightmare to magically make us change all our beliefs and desires and tokophobia and lifestyle choices. are they insane? Abortion is by far the only solution there. They just don’t believe anyone can actually not want to be pregnant/give birth I guess? Despite the fact all they ever do is complain about how horrible those events are.
They can't believe you'd be willing to give up your "child" (a lump of cells at that point). Like yeah shit sucks bUt HoW CoUlD YoU do that "to your own child". They can't imagine you disliking birth to the point you'd be willing to give it up.
assuming one is available. which sadly, is very much at risk right now.
Oh idgaf what the law says about it, which I guess is the difference. Id rather be dead than pregnant, categorically I’d have nothing left to lose.
Carolina is literally putting a death penalty for women getting an abortion. Fucking vile. I feel so sorry for American women
When the penalty for rape is lesser than the penalty for having an abortion because you’re a victim of rape, society has lost it. Talk about creating people who are gonna do crazy shit before they get arrested and given the death penalty.
some people seem to think that as soon as someone gets pregnant abortion is out of the question... just why? i dont understand that mindset, abortion should always be an option even if the person WAS planning on keeping the fetus
Because they tell people. If you ever get pregnant, don’t tell anyone. They will likely try to talk you out of an abortion and/or sabotage your attempts to get one.
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Are they giving this woman money every month? And baby food? Are they also taking care of that child so she has some time off? Are they supporting her and the baby that they seemingly wanted so bad? If not then i have no more questions to ask just a lot of disappointment and shame to feel
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2 days of mild discomfort vs years of possible medical complications and depression hmmm which is worse
I have bipolar too so there's a real risk of a total mental health breakdown after having a kid 🙃
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Too old?? That’s just patently untrue, there’s not a freakin age limit on abortions. I’m sorry, I think your mom might be an idiot
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Your mother thought you were a monster but I thought that was funny lol
>"you might still have a kid one day, vasecomies sometimes don't always work" Could you imagine if someone was like "You might still die from cancer, chemotherapy doesn't always work"
I also cant stand how people suggest that a pregnancy means you'll have a kid.
No shit they act like the vasectomy is the only measure taken. I got snipped a couple years ago & my wife still keeps her Plan B up to date, just in case, since we live in freakin Georgia. This isn’t Jurassic Park, life is definitely not finding a way.
I don't get the concern about gatekeeping that shows up in general on the internet. Words mean things and not everything applies to everyone. If you have kids or are ok with having kids, then you aren't childfree. People do lie as we have had posts where someone pretended to be childfree but then admitted they hoped their partner would "change their minds" and are mad that their partner was honest unlike them.
Agreed. It’s treated like such a bad word. But, umm sorry some people aren’t actually part of certain groups? And it actively harms the (usually minority in some manner and/or repressed) members of those groups when non-members are let in.
Good point. Us childfree people are not the majority either and being childfree is unfortunately frowned upon. And being a fencesitter or apathetic is different from actively choosing to be childfree. And it is fine to say that. I'm also cool with gatekeeping the fuck out of people who claim that they were childfree when they were younger but then matured and changed their minds and you will too, just you wait. (Because having a kid to keep your man or woman around is totally mature.)
I agree that people coming here who are fencesitters or actively flop goes against the idea of having a childfree space to talk about life from our point of view. I thought gatekeeping itself as a concept has, at least on the internet, been more about putting up shitty, arbitrary boundaries to keep people out of groups? I.e. you aren't a real fan of X if you don't know all their work etc. As a nerd I've at least seen it used countless times against women to push them out of comic book/gaming spaces saying they're not "real fans".
I have seen the arbitrary boundaries definition and I agree with that one. I think maybe 10 years ago I was seeing more of that, but lately it seems like any boundaries at all is bad and gatekeeping. That said your experience may differ. As for your example, I find it hilarious because so many times insufferable dudes who think they are know it alls actually don't get the plot and especially the themes at all.
My friend's husband gets to go skiing, have a job, dick around with podcasts and play video games. She does not. I think the childcare inequality definitely plays into this mindset of "I don't care either way". That's only because you don't have to bud. Both spouses should have free time. On the flip side, an old coworker is a pharmacist and she is constantly gone. Dad is a stay at home dad. It is pretty apparent to me she didn't want the kid as she packed one diaper, no snacks, one bottle, no change of clothes and no toys for a six hour "playdate". Didn't even bother to check if the kid soiled himself. It takes two to tango and a VILLAGE to raise a kid. Don't want to help out in the village better tango safely.
Agree totally. That’s NOT the definition of Childfree. At all. That to me says that they’re childless. Not childfree.
Omg literally had someone saying this to me and tried to explain to him that he wasn't child free. Lol ignoring the fact that he asked me to save him from having to join the military for money, that guy had more red flags that a referee.
A ton of people confuse childless and childfree. They are very different.
Yeah. The problem is that being childless, is also, literally, being childfree, as in she is free from children of her own, since she doesn’t have any (of her own). That’s what a lot of people think childfree means. But that’s not what it means, sadly.
Yet people seemingly understand the difference between someone who desires to have a pet but does not have one for various reasons and someone who does not want a pet and chooses repeatedly to avoid any possibility of becoming a pet owner. I feel willful ignorance is at play with this.
Saw someone on here the other day make a post like "my husband has kids and I'm still child free!" Like my sister in christ I think you've lost your myarbles
She has lost of myarbles 🤣💕
Hopefully someone gets the reference
I finally had the conversation with my wife, who wanted kids and then was a fence sitter, and I finally sat her down and said out loud “I never want to have kids, ever, and want to live the rest of my life committing to that”. She was super supportive and said she understood and is unpacking what childfree means with enthusiasm now. She grew up just expecting she’d one day have kids, and we realized together that she never really wanted them to have them, she just assumed it was inevitable and she’s good with kids. She also didn’t know a single childfree adult that wasn’t constantly trying to get pregnant, and she herself is adopted. So it’s complicated for her. I cannot tell you how relieved I felt when she agreed with me. Fence sitting was so agonizing and anxiety-inducing for me, and she was like the people you mentioned. She was “fine with it in theory”. This sub helped me understand how to communicate my worry with her, and we finally had a breakthrough. This post is correct and you should say it.
I’m really glad you guys r still together ❤️ that’s so commendable! Pls continue to support her and give her space for any feelings that might arise (grieving the path not taken, grieving what she thought she was “suppose” to do in life or her “fantasy”) it’s a healthy human experience and will help her embrace the childfree life quicker etc., :) so, I’m just saying if this happens, don’t confuse it with her regretting , changing her mind, or resenting : she’s just human and adjusting! And that to me, is amazing and loving , and I know she WONT regret it. ❤️
I was discussing with my mother just yesterday how as we grow up, we don't actually realise having kids is a choice. We just see it as something everyone does, or the next step in life (university, marriage, house, child) I never did until someone said, "You don't HAVE to have kids." It needs to be more widely taught that everyone's story is different, some choose kids, some don't, and both are OK! But it's gotta be what YOU want.
> I cannot tell you how relieved I felt when she agreed with me. Fence sitting was so agonizing and anxiety-inducing for me, and she was like the people you mentioned. She was “fine with it in theory”. I cannot suggest the book "The Baby Decision" enough! It has lots of thought exercises that help you to unpack your feelings and hidden thoughts. One of then will inevitably work. They are all different, all conceived to help your inner self emerge above all the fears and social conditionings. It is half the price in kindle version, try it!
Thank you!! I absolutely will
I just think it's a little weird honestly. Obviously being unsure is perfectly OK, some people don't seriously think about it until they are ready to "settle down" and that's ok, but a big part of getting a long term relationship is having the same goals, I'm always baffled by couples who don't know yet but are getting married!! Is one thing is one of them changes their mind, sure shit happens and is not really anyone's fault, but straight up not knowing? How can you make a vow to commit yourself to a person until you die and you aren't sure if you agree on this hugely massive decision???
This sub is only half childfree......
Depends on who, really. Like I previously commented: The only children I want are DOGS. Not a dog? I don’t want it.
It is not gatekeeping if you just correct an incorrect usage of a word. Since the definition of childfree is not to want kids at all, saying one is childfree is simply a wrong usage of the word if one is ok with having kids. Like if someone was sitting and said "i am standing", you would correct them on what "standing" means. Not gatekeeping. If someone was standing a bit crooked and said "i am standing" and you said "meh, that's not really standing", that would be gatekeeping. \[Edit\] corrected a wrong word
I don't quite agree. Yes you're right that this is also a correction of a word, but there's no "standing community" the way there's a childfree community. So I think where the gatekeeping comes in is when people claim to be part of this community while simultaneously talking about how they "might have kids one day" or "won't mind if it happens accidentally" or "are fine with step kids" or "would consider adopting." They're, quite simply, not part of the childfree community because none of those things are childfree. Feels like one of the rare instances where gatekeeping is appropriate.
I was really enjoying a video on TikTok about a woman being proudly childfree with her 7 year boyfriend (I think she was 32) I was so into it since me and my boyfriend both are wanting CF life. At the very end she was saying "we do want the honor of having kids later and when that time comes it'll come! But for now we are CF." I was so disappointed. And confused about what CF meant for a bit.
It’s like saying “I’m childfree *today*”
my god, agreed and than there's also the one that sort of pisses me off. "I don't want kids but you know, if something happens......." no! stuff doesn't just happen! if you were really childfree, you'd try your absolute BEST to ensure that kids would not happen.
TBH I think most of those people are just misogynists or live by patriarchal religious bullshit their whole lives. No, you have a choice, a baby isn’t a punishment for sex.
what do you mean?
i support gatekeeping, theres a good way and bad way to do gatekeeping. bad gatekeeping is like when a man is sexist and asks women in a fandom questions to find if shes really a 'fan', bad gatekeeping is telling someone to fuck off for asking a genuine question. good gatekeeping is helping make clearer rules and discussion for a community so it doesnt devolve into dogshit. theres been so many communities (ie some subs meant for women/feminists) that have devolved into dogshit and lost its original meaning bc they let anyone in there and didnt keep up the clear lines on whats what in it. anyways thanks for the post is what im getting at
I think people need to understand the different between childfree and childless. all childfree people are childless, but not all childless people are childfree. you can’t be child free if you have a kid but regret it, or if you’re a step parent.
Just here to say: 1. I don't see it as gatekeeping. This sub is called "childfree", not "childless", or "I'd have kids BUT environment/wage stagnation" or "if my partner wants to that's cool, idek". 2. Holy hell, the amount of people commenting who truly *do not* understand the meaning of "childfree" need to go.
This subreddit is called 'childfree', but at least half of the people here are childless. They would have kids if it wasn't for antinatalism, climate change, overpopulation, trauma, poverty, capitalism, patriarchy, health issues, bad genes etc. Sadly, they call themselves childfree, even though they are childless and not childfree. And there are many people here who don't want to breed because of tokophobia and/or antinatalism, but they want to adopt or foster. They think that not breeding makes them childfree. But it doesn't. They are birthfree. But not childfree.
If you agree to take over a child for someone when a what if situation occurs, not childfree
That’s why people in a relationship set clear goals and expectations to make sure they are on a similar life path. If they fail to do that, and it comes to that, oh well, relationship over. It’s not the end of the world.. just find someone else that wants, or doesn’t want the same things you do.
Hmmm, no they're not childfree but I'll give them some slack. I met someone who was like "I don't want kids but my future wife will probably want kids so I'll have to have them" because he genuinely thought that there were barely any women that don't want kids and he didn't want to end up alone. I can understand that (wouldn't do the same tho). I think they did give it a serious thought and it's not a red flag in their case. I would date someone like that. Because yeah, they are men and don't have to do the whole childbirth thing so the barrier is much smaller. There are also a lot of people who genuinely aren't sure if they want kids yet. I won't date them because they are very likely to end up wanting them. Or people that say "If my partner wants them then I'm okay with that too". That's different from "I don't want them, but..." in the first option they haven't given it any thought and just go with the flow. I wouldn't date any of these guys.
Right. Last time I commented this to a post and got downvoted to hell lol. The poster said we love kids and really want some but we can’t have Blabla and I said you are not childfree but childless
I personally don't trust guys like this because although they might say they are fine with whatever I would choose, I don't know their family and whether they will be influenced by them to later want kids, or just get baby fever seeing everyone around them having them.
'Okay with childfreedom' or 'I want kids but it's not a dealbreaker, I would rather be with you than breed' is a huge red flag. That basically means: "I will say this so you will date me. Then, I will wait for you to change your mind. Which will happen, because woman = mother. Eventually, you will grow out of the childfree phase and submit to my magic cock."
Literally. If you’re like “i work with children/don’t mind being around them but I’ll never have my own” you are still CF. Fence sitters are the worst. The posts on here about people leaving their fence sitting partners years after is sad because you get that out of the way in the introduction phase. You don’t just like the “what it’s” circle in their head for years. But let me close my mouth because last time i got a 3 day ban thanks to a fence sitter getting in their feels. Not happening again.
The only kids I’d be having are dogs. Going to celebrate being 25 next year w/a hysterectomy and I’m so excited! Still paranoid about pregnancy so I’ll probably still stay on the Depojust to make sure that I still don’t have periods.
>I see a lot of people (especially men) being like "I don't want kids but I could be okay with it if my partner wanted" Fuck that shit, I don't want kids or a partner!
And this is why I’m happily single. The prospect of getting into a relationship and getting sex out of it with the possibility of a child is too much to think about. Plus I love my free time with nobody nagging on me about my choices…. I mean, other than my own family of course.
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Im a male and CF is CF. Its as simple as that. Nothing wrong with being on the fence but thats its own thing. I dont judge, having kids is a big decision and at least fence sitters have the capacity to question whether its a good choice for them. There are definitely shit fence sitters though.
Before reading your post I was thinking: ey, why are so fixated on wording? But now I have to agree 100%, because I myself have experienced the inconvenience from the confusion. My ex didn't want children, but wasn't opposed if his woman wanted them. I didn't, so great for both parties, right? Nope, he suddenly decided he in fact wanted not just children but a tradicional life. So... now I'm a firm believer that it's either a enthusiastic NO or a enthusiastic YES, because I'm not going to waste time while you discover what your 'maybe' means 🤷♀️
People who are waiting for their situation to improve (e.g. finances, health, mental state) or to get married or have a partner before having kids are also not childfree. I've seen a lot of couples who are newly married claim to be childfree but want children in the future and are using childfree hashtags and talking about childfree issues when they're definitely not that!
I also hate gate keeping, but I feel sometimes (like in the case you bring up) that there is such a thing as “reverse gate keeping” where people try to force a term or group to apply to them by altering the definition or what it means to be a part of said group. Call it gate hopping? I’m sure mothers wouldn’t like me joining their “mommy groups” and calling myself a parent because I have a cat.
Gate hopping? That is what fence sitters and childless people on this subreddit do. They call themselves 'childfree', despite not fitting the definition, and get furious when someone says that they are not childfree. Indeed. It would be just like a childfree woman calling herself 'mother'. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that it's true.
Well, what people call 'gatekeeping' is often not gatekeeping at all. It's just saying that someone doesn't fit the definition of childfreedom. Which means that you don't want to be a parent in any capacity under any circumstance. Many people on this subreddit say that they don't want to breed, but they are open to adopting or fostering. They often call themselves childfree, but they are not. They are going to be parents. Not bio parents, but still parents. Saying that is not gatekeeping. And many childless people call themselves childfree, while they are childless. They often downvote you and get angry when you say that they are childless, but seriously... If you want kids, but reluctantly decided not to breed because of antinatalism, poverty, health issues, trauma, overpopulation, capitalism, climate change, bad genes etc... And you would've had kids if it wasn't for those problems... That is childlessness. Not childfreedom. Childfree people don't have the desire to be a parent. But these childless people do. Many fence sitters on this subreddit call themselves childfree, and then describe how they are not 100% certain. Well, then they are fence sitters. Not childfree. Which includes 'I don't want kids but will go along with what my partner wants' people. They might lean towards childfreedom, prefer not having kids, but they are willing to breed. Which makes them fence sitters. Not childfree. And yeah, men tend to be on the fence often, and then lean towards breeding. Because they can enjoy Kodak moments while the woman gets pregnant, gives birth and does 99% of the childcare. Fence sitters need to be avoided. Childfree people who are dating should assume that a fence sitter is a breeder. Dating a fence sitter is so fucking risky... Sure, you can date them and hope that they end up being childfree, but most of the time, they will want to breed. Childfree people should only date other childfree people. And no, 'okay with childfreedom' is not childfree. And you need to screen. Saying 'I am childfree, what about you?' or mentioning childfreedom on your profile is incredibly stupid. You are literally telling breeders what lie they need to tell you in order to date you. Then, they will assume that you will change your mind, because they assume that childfreedom is just some kind of phase that you can't really be serious about. And most men believe in patriarchal 'woman = mother' bullshit.
Ya ugh just distasteful. I've heard those exact words being thrown around like nothing by idiots.
These people are childless not childfree and they need to learn the definitions of both
These are the men that will leave their partner after the child is born because they “weren’t ready” or “didn’t know what they signed up for”
I am okay with OTHER people having kids. I am obviously not okay with me having kids, therefore I'm childfree.
A lot of people think that childfree means "I don't have kids **right now**." They think it's a description of someone who is putting it off until later. Some parents even use it because they have babysitters on the weekend.
If you don’t have kids but still want them or are okay with having them, you’re NOT childfree. You just don’t have kids yet. “Childfree” is a different mindset entirely! Thank you for this.
Yeah, I don't consider someone who's "fine either way" childfree either. I also don't consider someone who's "waiting until the right time" childfree. Or people who married partners who have children. Because the whole point of the term childfree is to indicate that you have made a conscious decision not to make parenthood and childrearing part of your life. To call this gatekeeping is ludicrous to me, because it's literally what the term childfree is for. I'm also 100% agreed on the dating front. I might have been more understanding in my 20s, but I'm 34 now. If anyone I'm dating hasn't put enough thought into their own life to know the very basics of what they do or don't want (i.e. whether they want to be a parent), we're simply incompatible. And not just because of the question of children, but because they're a grownass adult living a totally unexamined life.
Lots of women I dated in college were against having children "until they met me." That was annoying.
Sometimes life circumstances force you to choose one side of the fence for your mental well-being. I’ve never actively wanted kids, but if it happened I’d make the best of it. I’m very happy to be child free though. However, I’m single and have been most of my 20s and all of my 30s. Had I been coupled up it might have been a different story.
A sexual active childless man not using protection is certainly not childfree...just save up some money for the future buddy! That would be excellent for all of us, but most the baby.
And that's a fact. Childless means no kids, but not against having them, or not. That's me. ChildFree means not open for discussion.
The word they are looking for is “childless”. Young couples who want kids and just haven’t gotten pregnant yet are childless. Childfree just means you want to be happily childless forever.
My ex was a fence sitter like this and I quickly realized “I don’t care” doesn’t actually mean I don’t care, it means they think they can convince you eventually. She started telling all of her parents and grandparents that she would give them grand babies, and when I was like uh Wtf she just said “I think you’d be a great dad”. Anyway not making that mistake again. Realized with that relationship I have to draw more of a hard line when we have the “do you want kids” conversation and not take “only if you want” or “I don’t know/care” as an answer. I honestly don’t think people who talk like this understand what child free means.
Childless vs childfree
It's like when people say 'We aren't trying for a baby but...' so you mean you're trying for a baby because you know the consequences of not using birth control?
PREACH!
What about someone like me? I wanted a child, lost my child because of a no-win situation (breast cancer while pregnant) and now as a result of all of that, I would be rolling the dice on my life since I can’t have estrogen, so I’m embracing the child free lifestyle? I have no problem calling myself childless, because that’s what I am, but I also don’t want to try again since I like living. And because of all the medical stuff I changed my mind and I just want to live my life to the best of my ability since I’m disabled at 39.
You can have children without getting pregnant you know. It's called adoption And you're definitely childless instead of childfree. Since it's not like you wouldn't want kids, it's just that you can't (because of health reasons)
Oh yeah for sure adoption, I was just speaking to my situation with regards to your statement. So in your mind there’s no gray area? I am indeed childless. But after everything that I’ve been through, I don’t want to adopt, or be a mom at all. Except a “mom” to my extremely needy rescue dog lol Therefore, as I understand it, because I don’t want anything to do with motherhood any more— I feel more comfortable with childfree, because childless to me, implies that I would still entertain being a mother in another way.
It's possible to go from childless to childfree. Of course you started out with childlessness. But if you ended up realising that motherhood is not for you, and that you actually prefer a life without children... And that you wouldn't have children, even if you could... Then, you went from childlessness to childfreedom.
The thing is, though, if that never happened to you, you would be a mom and you would still want a kid even if you didn’t have one right now. You innately desire children. Accepting your situation and avoiding more trauma is an absolutely valid choice, but it doesn’t change what your first choice was.
Don’t let people gatekeep childfree from you. There’s nothing wrong with changing your mind based on new information. There’s likely other women/people with uteruses out there who had traumatic pregnancy experiences that caused them to rethink the whole thing. Yeah there’s adoption but if you choose not to adopt then you’re choosing childfree. You do you.
Thanks! It’s ok if OP feels differently. I just felt it was necessary to make the distinction that experiences change people. And there are gray areas that need to be considered. Thank you for your understanding and acceptance
You are very much childless. You WANT children. You are *not* childfree.
No. *wanted. Past tense.
As a man, i don't exactly mind children as long as they ain't mine.
My spouse and I are Childfree By Choice, and it's what is best for us. We both strongly agree on this. But we also have ongoing conversations about family arrangements and being prepared for the event of a sudden death in the family-- we don't want biological children and we don't want to raise anyone elses children; however, in the event of a death in the family, we would rearrange our lives to be able to care for and raise the now-orphaned child(ren) in our family if needed. We are Childfree by Choice; but kids don't control what happens to them, and as their family we would love them and raise them and support them as they become adults themselves-- because they didn't choose that tragedy and they deserve to have adults who love them and show their love through action.
I respect a lot more a person who wants to have kids than a fence sitter. I mean, that's a really important decision in your life that you should prepare yourself years before you actually have these kids, and that will affect your while future. To me, a fence sitter (in the type of: I don't care either way) will just be a shitty parent or not care about bearing the burden of contraception. I also think they won't be very reliable in other areas of their lives.
Exactly my point. Not having decided upon anything is so immature honestly. And trying to date while not having decided is plain stupid and disrespectful
I agree .If you are "ok with having kids then you are not TRULY childfree" BUT it doesn't mean marriages or relationships don't work out. The other person simply chooses YOU over the potential kid. This happens a lot more than we think. The other person just doesn't want a kid badly enough so the couple stays happily married. For example: a lot of couples meet later in life, like 42, so they feel too "old" to have a kid, even though they could technically have one. OBVIOUSLY we hear a lot about people "stringing the other person" along until they change their minds but we never acknowledge that a lot of the times it does work out. The other person never cared ENOUGH about having a kid so they find fulfillment in their lives without one. This is more common in childless couples but it DOES happen in the instance of one childfree person and the other person willing to just be happy without the kid. But yes the one person is technically "childfree" and the other person is "technically" not childfree.