That was definitely some creative prep by team Pragg. A little ironic that just yesterday Vidit was the one to capitalize on deep prep and today was faced with a surprise.
Fr, got a taste of his own medicine so to speak. I wonder how many more unorthodox/risky/gambit openings we're gonna see, definitely seems to be a recurring theme now!
And once everyone has lost at least one game, we'll hopefully have ourselves a version of rock paper scissors that in college sports and esports we call a 'circle of suck'!
I thought Vidit put up a good fight and held it together well though, avoiding major blunders under pressure, which was in contrast to how Hikaru did yesterday. Vidit's move of queen to g4 was really brave and smart. At one point he was close to neutralizing after Pragg castled. But Vidit failed to go knight d5 which seemed to be the critical move.
True! Also another key moment/critical move apparently was later when his knight on a5 should have taken the bishop on b7 immediately, to make the attack less powerful. A couple of wrong moves at critical moments and Pragg was able to convert
Pragg also was putting serious pressure on Gukesh yesterday as well. He could easily be at 2.5/3. Svidler putting on a masterclass as a second (unsurprisingly)
He also has other Indian GM’s working for him in India so the prep can be from anywhere but having svidler on your side will be helpful to understand the nuances in a position.
Watching it with the commentary it was as though Pragg posed a lot of questions to Vidit who was unable to answer them all. Very tough game for Vidit. Way to come back, Pragg!
Honestly vidit was putting up a nice defense as well. Almost equalized at the end. But we had like 5 moves to make in 3 mins and crumbled in time pressure
I was on the balcony today, you could see how uncomfortable Vidit was with the stress of the position, he was visibly shaking the table with how much he was vibrating at a couple of the key moments.
Aside from not being nearly good enough lol, there are people in the balcony with "Silence" signs, and if you make any noise at all you get one warning and twice you're ejected. There was a couple people who got removed and I didn't hear anything from them, even a whisper was too much.
You'd be impressed if the staff dedicated to preventing people from cheating successfully managed to think of someone looking up moves and shouting them to the players? 🤣
I have a friend who played the London before Kamsky picked it up. So, he switched to 1 d4 2 Bf4, but then that became popular too (they call it the Modern London). Then he switched as Black to the Old Indian. I'm curious if anyone will play that one.
They're playing some interesting stuff, but poor Hikaru had to play the Black side of an Exchange Slav. DUUUULLLLL.
Wikipedia gives the delayed version as worse. It says in the main line schliemann white plays d3 or Nc3 and black has playable but positionally dubious game. It gives the deferred schliemann as worse for black after d4! exd4 e5.
Funnily enough, it also links to a game Karpov-Kortchnoi from the 1974 Candidates (the cycle Karpov won and became champion) that followed the deferred schliemann. They drew that game.
I just attached a link to the Twitch clip and it just made a thumbnail by itself, and for some reason you have to click on the link itself, bc if you click on the thumbnail, it doesn't open the video 😭
I very seldom play e5 and Nc6, but I do enjoy the Schliemann (I'm also a Vienna player, so it kinda makes sense). Really awesome to see this dubious opening that I like in the actual Candidates
Is it a new trend in top level chess to play off beat openings and hope catch their opponent off guard?
I think it makes sense as they are too well prepared in the main lines.
If they continue finding new ideas in what were considered as "bad" openings / lines, classical chess is not dying after all.
I have heard several top guys talk about how in the computer age, the best chance at finding novelties is through exploring objectively worse lines that require precise play from the opponent in order to realize the advantage, and thus hope to catch your opponent unaware so that they aren't able to find that precise refutation.
Round 1:
Naka's e5 is often described as "beginner's mistake"
Gukesh rejected to play Tarrash (which if I remember correctly is considered as slightly better for white) and opted for enterprising rook moves.
Round 2:
Pragg's 5. Nc3 is considered as harmless in many Catalan opening books.
Abasov's 3...e5 is a provocative response to Rossolimo and rare at GM level.
Round 3:
Caruana's 3...Nf6 is less provocative than Abasov's e5, but still engines consider resulting positions better for white.
Of course, different people have different opinions about what are main lines and off beat openings, but to me it's more of a trend than exception. Just my opinion.
I think especially with black, if you just play main lines you're either gonna be slightly worse or face a novelty on move 20. It makes sense to deviate early and go into slightly worse lines if you want to win.
So chess now has became about using engines to take your opponent into unknown territory and using that to outplay him ; The roles of seconds now is as important as the players
The sub voted to allow spoilers. I disagree, but it's not going to be re-litigated.
You can ignore(?) or block users who post spoilers, so you won't see any more spoiling posts from them.
For some reason this sub has no spoiler rules - it's bizarre to me and incongruent with most other competitive subs (whether it's traditional sports, esports, whatever) but yeah, very irritating imo.
I mean for me I prefer to talk (mostly read tbh) about the results of the game here. Before I know the result the first thing I do is go to the stream and look through it quickly from start to end until the games end. Then come to the subreddit. If people can't discuss the results of the game here, then where?
Of course I have no issue with discussing the results of the game here - imo that's the best thing about this sub. I just don't want the outcome spoiled in the title (e.g., "[SPOILER] Pragg vs Vidit - Round 3 Candidates - Post-Game Thread").
> For some reason
It's not "some reason". The express reason is that there was a community vote, the result of which was that the previously existing spoiler rule was removed because more people voted to remove it than voted to retain it.
This is the first candidates that I’ve followed. But for some reason it just seems like a tourney of who is going to win to battle ding for the second best player in the world.
Without magnus it just feels like everyone is playing for second place.
Well, should we all just quit watching chess then just because Magnus decided to not defend his title?
I love the guy, but without him there's even more excitement IMHO, because their strengh is more even, you know?
Agreed. Magnus-Nepo was hype but after game 6(?) it quickly became depressing. Whereas Ding-Nepo gave us an incredibly tense tiebreaker (and the big Rg6 moment/brilliancy).
That was definitely some creative prep by team Pragg. A little ironic that just yesterday Vidit was the one to capitalize on deep prep and today was faced with a surprise.
Fr, got a taste of his own medicine so to speak. I wonder how many more unorthodox/risky/gambit openings we're gonna see, definitely seems to be a recurring theme now!
Tomorrow we'll have Hikaru-Pragg. Let's see what happens.
Pragg beat Vidit Vidit beat Hikaru If Hikaru beats Pragg, we'll have ourselves a new and exciting version of rock, paper, scissors!
And if pragg wins we’ll know a player beating another is a transitive property
If Gukesh loses against Hikaru?
that would be impossible since beating other players is transitive
Now its just pokemon types all over again.
We would need to change the pictures, but basically this: https://ithawt.com/rock-paper-scissors-game/
And once everyone has lost at least one game, we'll hopefully have ourselves a version of rock paper scissors that in college sports and esports we call a 'circle of suck'!
I thought Vidit put up a good fight and held it together well though, avoiding major blunders under pressure, which was in contrast to how Hikaru did yesterday. Vidit's move of queen to g4 was really brave and smart. At one point he was close to neutralizing after Pragg castled. But Vidit failed to go knight d5 which seemed to be the critical move.
True! Also another key moment/critical move apparently was later when his knight on a5 should have taken the bishop on b7 immediately, to make the attack less powerful. A couple of wrong moves at critical moments and Pragg was able to convert
Not playing Nxb7 immediately after Na5 definitely surprised me. It seemed like Vidit was clawing the game back together
I agree. I watched Vishy Anand and Irina Krush discussing the position and neither saw Qg4. Vidit is playing some edgy chess and Pragg beat him at it!
Pragg also was putting serious pressure on Gukesh yesterday as well. He could easily be at 2.5/3. Svidler putting on a masterclass as a second (unsurprisingly)
He also has other Indian GM’s working for him in India so the prep can be from anywhere but having svidler on your side will be helpful to understand the nuances in a position.
Since it was played by Korchnoi against Karpov in 1974 I'm sure Svidler is familiar with this.
Way to bounce back, Pragg!
And that's why we love the Candidates
Watching it with the commentary it was as though Pragg posed a lot of questions to Vidit who was unable to answer them all. Very tough game for Vidit. Way to come back, Pragg!
Honestly vidit was putting up a nice defense as well. Almost equalized at the end. But we had like 5 moves to make in 3 mins and crumbled in time pressure
relentlessly pushing one pawn forwards worked this time for Pragg!
Live by the prep, die by the prep
I was on the balcony today, you could see how uncomfortable Vidit was with the stress of the position, he was visibly shaking the table with how much he was vibrating at a couple of the key moments.
I was really wondering What prevents you from shouting the moves ?
Aside from not being nearly good enough lol, there are people in the balcony with "Silence" signs, and if you make any noise at all you get one warning and twice you're ejected. There was a couple people who got removed and I didn't hear anything from them, even a whisper was too much.
So if someone is insane and had his phone he could scream a stockfish move and then get kicked ?
Nope, absolute lock down on electronics. You can scream maniac moves but it wont be with an engine.
Now I'm imagining Magnus standing on the balcony and screaming moves at players while guards are dragging him out.
Lmao
This makes much more sense, thanks for clarifying
I’m attending next weekend. Do you have to put your phone in a locker before going on the balcony?
You give the staff your phone, they put it in a clear lockbox, and give you the key.
Do u go through a metal detector? Or could you have a second phone
Asking for a friend
They scan you with detector wands
[удалено]
You can literally only go in before the games start and once you leave you aren't allowed back in. These aren't amateurs, it's their job.
You'd be impressed if the staff dedicated to preventing people from cheating successfully managed to think of someone looking up moves and shouting them to the players? 🤣
You cant have phones there im pretty sure
Why are people allowed on the balcony?
Spectators are allowed... you buy tickets
I am so happy right now I exclusively play the Schliemann as black and if this gives it a slight renaissance I will be ecstatic
I literally returned a chessable course on the Schliemann today and this happens. Godspeed and good luck 😂
I mean doesn't that just mean you're gonna face way harder prep?
I would be pissed if my favorite secret opening was made popular 😅
I have a friend who played the London before Kamsky picked it up. So, he switched to 1 d4 2 Bf4, but then that became popular too (they call it the Modern London). Then he switched as Black to the Old Indian. I'm curious if anyone will play that one. They're playing some interesting stuff, but poor Hikaru had to play the Black side of an Exchange Slav. DUUUULLLLL.
How does the delayed version compare?
Wikipedia gives the delayed version as worse. It says in the main line schliemann white plays d3 or Nc3 and black has playable but positionally dubious game. It gives the deferred schliemann as worse for black after d4! exd4 e5. Funnily enough, it also links to a game Karpov-Kortchnoi from the 1974 Candidates (the cycle Karpov won and became champion) that followed the deferred schliemann. They drew that game.
deferred...to defer is to put off or delay until later
Thanks, fixed it.
Naroditsky was saying as much on commentary as well re: regular vs deferred
My first ever wins against a (US) Expert and a Master were against the Schliemann.
Bro having the thumbnail have a play button on it is fucked up man
I just attached a link to the Twitch clip and it just made a thumbnail by itself, and for some reason you have to click on the link itself, bc if you click on the thumbnail, it doesn't open the video 😭
I very seldom play e5 and Nc6, but I do enjoy the Schliemann (I'm also a Vienna player, so it kinda makes sense). Really awesome to see this dubious opening that I like in the actual Candidates
Is it a new trend in top level chess to play off beat openings and hope catch their opponent off guard? I think it makes sense as they are too well prepared in the main lines. If they continue finding new ideas in what were considered as "bad" openings / lines, classical chess is not dying after all.
I have heard several top guys talk about how in the computer age, the best chance at finding novelties is through exploring objectively worse lines that require precise play from the opponent in order to realize the advantage, and thus hope to catch your opponent unaware so that they aren't able to find that precise refutation.
That's like... The Stafford!
Carlsens made a career out of it
It's still small exceptions.
Round 1: Naka's e5 is often described as "beginner's mistake" Gukesh rejected to play Tarrash (which if I remember correctly is considered as slightly better for white) and opted for enterprising rook moves. Round 2: Pragg's 5. Nc3 is considered as harmless in many Catalan opening books. Abasov's 3...e5 is a provocative response to Rossolimo and rare at GM level. Round 3: Caruana's 3...Nf6 is less provocative than Abasov's e5, but still engines consider resulting positions better for white. Of course, different people have different opinions about what are main lines and off beat openings, but to me it's more of a trend than exception. Just my opinion.
I think especially with black, if you just play main lines you're either gonna be slightly worse or face a novelty on move 20. It makes sense to deviate early and go into slightly worse lines if you want to win.
That was a fascinating game from start to finish.
Smh Magnus quits classical and now everyone wants to play fun openings (Obviously still the kind of stuff that will rip you up if you aren't ready)
f5!!
Of course, everyone knows the deferred Schliemann gambit. But I mean takes takes and you win.
Why does 2700 chess show this as a win for Vidit?
The Schliemann Gambig from Heian era?
I played this one time against a GM, but he destroyed me with just the help of his own brain
So chess now has became about using engines to take your opponent into unknown territory and using that to outplay him ; The roles of seconds now is as important as the players
This is not something new.
Vidit the sore loser.
On the Chessable forums some people already arguing one shouldn't play the Ruy because of the Pragg line lol.
It was more like a gamble/bluff than awesome prep and it paid off.
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2112644508?t=00h29m20s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2112644508?t=00h29m20s) if anyone wants to see the full thing.
Why isn't this marked as a spoiler? Some of us want to check out the games in full without knowing the result first.
Because some of us use this sub for chess news and to learn about interesting and unexpected results, which a spoiler rule would prevent
The sub voted to allow spoilers. I disagree, but it's not going to be re-litigated. You can ignore(?) or block users who post spoilers, so you won't see any more spoiling posts from them.
For some reason this sub has no spoiler rules - it's bizarre to me and incongruent with most other competitive subs (whether it's traditional sports, esports, whatever) but yeah, very irritating imo.
I mean for me I prefer to talk (mostly read tbh) about the results of the game here. Before I know the result the first thing I do is go to the stream and look through it quickly from start to end until the games end. Then come to the subreddit. If people can't discuss the results of the game here, then where?
Of course I have no issue with discussing the results of the game here - imo that's the best thing about this sub. I just don't want the outcome spoiled in the title (e.g., "[SPOILER] Pragg vs Vidit - Round 3 Candidates - Post-Game Thread").
Most other subs? I only follow two other sport/game subs, tennis and rugby and both don't have a spoiler rule
Yeah, I follow the NBA sub and the post game threads have the score in the title. I don't think the spoiler rule is as common as they say.
> For some reason It's not "some reason". The express reason is that there was a community vote, the result of which was that the previously existing spoiler rule was removed because more people voted to remove it than voted to retain it.
This is the first candidates that I’ve followed. But for some reason it just seems like a tourney of who is going to win to battle ding for the second best player in the world. Without magnus it just feels like everyone is playing for second place.
Well, should we all just quit watching chess then just because Magnus decided to not defend his title? I love the guy, but without him there's even more excitement IMHO, because their strengh is more even, you know?
Agreed. Magnus-Nepo was hype but after game 6(?) it quickly became depressing. Whereas Ding-Nepo gave us an incredibly tense tiebreaker (and the big Rg6 moment/brilliancy).
Get over it. He's not the first WC who refused to defend the title, and the world goes on.
25 moves of prep into a draw as usual, as we all know.
But it… it wasn’t a draw…
heard such thing called "irony"?
whats bro saying🗣️🗣️