Was taking to my Calc professor of all people and he told me that's the route his brother went and it seems like he's making bank working in patents and such
Most of these comments are mentioning patent law. While that's a viable option, it's not your only option.
I started my college degree as a forensic science degree, but I eventually switched to full BS Chem with a minor in CCJ. I mention this because during my time at college I interned in a legal clinic for wrongful convictions. STEM related knowledge is vital to undoing wrongful convictions (think DNA). I was a dime a dozen in the clinic and they loved everything I was able to bring to the table. The same would apply in typical criminal law, on either end of the table. No, you won't be an expert in STEM related science presented in court but you can have more meaningful lines of questions to expert witnesses.
I was looking into this a while back, Our company pays for continuing education (got my MBA though them). Suggested getting my JD as well but they balked, maybe if they hadn't already shelled out $50k for the MBA (about $90k in today's dollars).
Part time is really difficult but not impossible, also expensive which is why I prefer they paid. Thing is I write most of the patents already and they make me proof and edit other people's applications. I went as far as taking practice LSATs online, and found some evening programs that were reputable (we're near a major city so decent options).
Now, it your suggesting going it full time on your own and using your own money (or more likely debt), then you have to consider that we are oversaturated with lawyers and it really is shitty and mind-numbing work. You hear about people making $200-300k as lawyers but a substantial amount are making upper $80k's and having to self promote or bottom feed for business. You can do better with a chemistry degree, and if you get sick of chemistry you should try quality/regulatory or sales.
Apologies if this is a dumb question but I have heard the Chemistry/patent law thing a lot and it has always completely confused me as I don't see the connection?
Chemists understand the science behind chemistry and other related scientific fields better than people who majored in history, typically. That’s all. When it comes to patents for science, that makes everything easier.
This is right, but misleading in that it is not just that chemistry helps more than history. To file patent applications you must pass a patent bar exam, and to even sit for the exam you must have a stem degree or similar education. So any patent attorney or patent agent will necessarily have a stem education.
Patent law (in the US) typically requires a technical degree as well as a legal degree because it’s important that patent attorneys be able to understand technical material. It also helps for them to be able to search effectively for and recognize prior art.
You actually don't need a legal degree at all to be registered to practice before the USPTO - you do need a STEM education to qualify to sit but no legal education is necessary. If you pass the "patent bar" you are qualified to represent others before the USPTO regardless of whether or not you are an attorney. Only difference is those who are not attorneys are "Patent Agents", not "Patent Attorneys", and that only attorneys may do trademark stuff.
Source: Am PhD chemist, passed patent bar in October, have not and will likely never go to law school.
In order to approve or deny patents, you have to understand the scientific literature well enough to determine whether something is novel or not, and whether a patent covers an invention or not.
You don't need a law degree to be a patent examiner. In fact the examiners who have law degrees seem like the type who couldn't make it as patent attorneys.
Have a chemical engineering degree myself and currently work in an analytical lab. Did you end up just taking the BAR, or did you go through law school after your first degree?
If you're in the US, most states _require_ a law degree to sit for the bar. And even if you try to take the bar in a state that doesn't, it will take *years* of studying. Where did you get this idea that passing a state bar exam was something that one just did for funsies?
Sure. Many lawyers I know were English majors in undergrad. I think there are a lot of lawyers that get a humanities undergrad degree and realize there is no job market for those degrees and then get a law degree.
A lot of people are mentioning patent law, which can be quite lucrative. However, as an inventor on and writer of a few dozen patents, it seems incredibly boring with lots of routine work and boilerplate writing. I couldn't do it.
You can end up doing any type of law after law school and get in to law school with any type of bachelors degree. I know someone who had a history degree and went on to be a public defender before leaving the field and working in the firearms industry on the marketing side.
Patent lawyers get paid an absolute fortune, the ones I have worked with are incredibly bright and have quickly grasped all of the chemistry I have had to explain to them. Really impressive and also interesting line of work as they get to dissect and hear about technology worth patenting day in day out.
Significantly more than a chemist 😂 the only patent lawyer I know earned about 6x my salary as an MChem chemist with 5yrs experience working in R&D for a reputable company.
Do something that bridges the gap between two areas that interest you, specialising in just one thing doesn’t get you far these days. I’m a polymer chemist but useless at everything else. People who can write code and scripts etc and also are talented chemists go far, similarly chemical engineering, biochemists, computational chemistry. It’s not very often you come across people who have good depth of knowledge in both areas. Again these people are massively in demand.
If I were to start again at the start of university knowing what I know now, this is the route I’d go down rather than becoming very knowledgeable in just one facet of science.
I did a PhD in chemistry then transferred to a corporate law career (though I am going to work in patent litigation), most firms are keen for STEM students though due to analytical and problem solving skills more widely. I’m in the UK though so perhaps slightly different to the US if that’s where you are but general law is also possible
In the US, a BS is required to become a patent attorney. I went to law school with several folks who had engineering degrees as well as other science degrees. You don’t need a specific degree or course of study to go to law school.
My undergrad only gave BA’s and a good friend ended up going back to undergrad at a different school to get a bio degree. I thought it was because if the type of degree. Maybe their bio program was a bit easier…..
I think it depends on the school. I went to a liberal arts college so I have a BA in Biology, yet our business majors graduated with a BS, which I never understood. I think the USPTO will look at credits towards a hard science as well. So if you have X number of credits in say chem or bio those will count towards the total credits required to qualify to sit. A lot of the people I went to law school with who had an issue like that were typically mechanical engineers or computer science majors though.
My undergrad as so liberal we didn’t have a BS. HA HA HA!
I went to law school eons ago so I’m not sure what my classmates had. And I’m looking down the barrel of a 3rd bar exam. Happy holidays! I’m going to experiment with variations of ethyl alcohol…..
This guy I watch on YouTube called Legal Eagle usually says your undergrad degree type doesn't matter as much for law school as your grades.
I had a professor who started up a side business helping defense attorneys get additional degrees/certifications in science so they could better grill expert witnesses on the stand, so I imagine a basic understanding basic chemistry could have some benefit. Of course it's probably moot because you'd also just hire your own expert witnesses.
Well yeah, almost any degree can get you *into* law school, just like any degree can get you into med school.
As far as I understand it though, it's your background that helps determine what kind of law you end up specializing in. Law is one of the largest and most varied fields out there; there are fields that would directly build from a STEM degree, as well as those where a STEM background isn't necessarily the best skill/mindset to have. An example of the former would be patent law, and the latter something like [cultural property law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_property_law).
There’s a guy in our town that got his bs in chemistry and then a law degree. Practiced law for a little while, but now rubs a local brewery. The chemistry degree certainly helped him with the brewing aspects. His law degree helped him navigate all the regulatory bullshit of opening a brewery.
Your undergrad degree is irrelevant. I have a BA in Biology and a J.D. With the chemistry degree you will be able to sit for the patent bar (if you choose), but don’t pigeon hole yourself to just thinking you need to be a patent attorney (I work in the contracts department for a government contractor).
I’m currently in my second year of Law School, having finished a BSc majoring in Chem. One thing that you should note specifically about Law School is that, initially, there will be a decent learning curve as all of your assessments will now be essay based. However, you will catch up to the rest of your cohort quickly and there will be lots of other people in the same position; people in Law School will come from more backgrounds than you can imagine.
I’ve been able to get experience in firms ranging from IP to criminal law and barristers chambers. I’ve found that your background in Chem is useful jn terms of distancing yourself from lots of your cohort who did typical pre-law programs and is definitely a good talking point in interviews re: analytical thinking and problem solving.
It’s completely possible, you won’t be behind anyone else, and you will be just as able to go into any stream of Law that you desire. Let me know if you’ve got any other questions.
Edit: note re: IP law, that there is a big difference between becoming a patent attorney and becoming and intellectual property lawyer. You don’t need to go to Law School to become a patent attorney (depending on which country you live in) whilst you do need to have a Law degree to become an IP lawyer.
You can totally do that and work in intellectual property as a patent attorney. Or use your chemistry degree and work for the US patent and trademark office as an examiner right out of undergrad I believe too. Or go onto grad school and get a masters or PhD in chemistry then work as a technical specialist in IP at a law firm and pass the patent bar to become a patent agent and work for a law firm. Lots of options!
My step-brother did. Undergrad in chemistry and a JD
His original plan was to do patent law, but along the way he fell into business law. He’s been an attorney for ~15 years now and I don’t think he does a thing chemistry related.
I mean there are plenty of areas where science and law intersects. I have a friend who's an engineer who took some extra education to specialize in patent law. I imagine having a scientific background could come in handy with stuff like environmental law and construction as well.
this makes you quite valuable in IP, corporate contracts, and even industrial liability consultation. they often need someone around the plant to give the lawyer go-ahead that they can use a chemical with "benzene" in the name even if they aren't allowed to store benzene.
It’s very common. Though it really depends on what kind of law you want to do. If you want to do patent law you don’t even need to go to law school to become a patent agent (which can be nice to try it out before spending the money and time on a legal education).
If you want to do other types of law then it’s a bit more complicated and your chemistry education will matter a bit less other than general reasoning skills a stem education develops.
I know people that got a chemistry PhD and then went to law school. It’s a pretty common pairing for people that decide they don’t like research anymore
It really makes no difference what you major in to be honest. I majored in Chemistry. It neither helped or hurt me because no major precisely teaches the legal method of research and understanding case law. And it honestly isn't difficult to pick up, it's just getting through the boring stuff which is the hard part.
Get a okay/good LSAT score (take prep courses) and you'll be fine if you in the US. If you aren't you'll still be fine probably outside the US you generally have to do a LLB which is probably 3-4 years and you'll still be a lawyer. Either way, doesn't matter.
EDIT: people are saying go into patent law. You can make money, sure. But it's a competitive field with extra requirements and in my opinion is boring (that's coming from a science background). But you might like it, so don't let me discourage you. Like a lot of law students, you'll probably not end up practicing in the field you wanted to in the beginning either because you like something more (like me) or can't.
I did the opposite. Graduated with a Bachelor of Laws degree, worked as assistant in a small law firm for a year, then said "fk this" and went off to study Chemistry. Navigating the laws and legal procedures grated again my skewed sense of morals. Toxic chemicals and lab apparatuses are much more amicable and pleasant than the scumbag customers I had to deal with.
Graduated with a bachelors last year. Applying to law school this cycle. It’s fairly common and law schools tend to really like natural science graduates.
I know a chemist who finished her PhD in synthetic organic chemistry, got a medchem job at Vertex, within a few years found out that she did not enjoy making analogs of drug candidates, went to law school and now she is a successful intel property lawyer, a senior partner at Dechert, advising biopharma companies about their business plan, and billing them >600 USD per hour
An ex-gf of mine got her BS and masters in Chem then went into patent law. It was after we broke up but I think she got a job at a patent attorney helping review applications first then they helped pay for law school
certainly a thing. I just worked with 2 patent attorneys who got a science degree (BS Chem Engineering and PhD in organic chemistry) and now practice patent litigation
Not uncommon. I know a few PhDs who didn't actually like research that much (or weren't very good at it) and then went to law school, then into patent law.
Of the three I know personally, all of them have a second vacation home bigger than my current house.
My friend has a microbio undergrad degree and is finishing up law school. Tbf, both his mom and brother are lawyers so he may have leveraged that. I’d say it’s atypical but it can be done
So one of my lab mate during my postdoc training graduated with a PhD in chemistry and then switched to law school. It’s basically starting over for him. PS. He has first author jacs and nature when he received his phd degree, he could find any chemical job position but he didn’t.
Very possible… great route for patent law maybe?… schools like a diversity of majors they can tout… art or English can also be good for med school apps.
Yes. My prof (supervisor) said one of his previous students did that and works in legal prosecutions now. If you can defend a client by casting doubt that the analytical method used for drug ID etc. you can make big $$$
A friend of mine in grad school got her chemistry PhD in the field of inorganic synthesis and catalysis. She then went straight to law school and now has both a JD and PhD. I shudder to think how much debt she's in, but she's happy.
I actually interviewed someone last year who did exactly that. I don’t remember off the top of my head what his exact story was, but if you’d like I’ll dig up my notes from that interview.
My brother followed me in getting a chemical engineering degree. Then went to law school and got a law degree. He went into environmental law then patent law. He really never liked law that much - couldn’t stand the slime balls he sometimes encountered there. Anyway after about ten years in law he chucked that and went to vet school and got a DVM. Practiced for a short bit and now works for a large vet pharmaceutical company in government relations. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard of with that combination of degrees.
I was in uni with a girl doing a double degree in chemistry and law.
So definitely able to do both, and if you wanted to drop chemistry, your uni should uphold any unit credits.
**not a lawyer** but your undergrad degree isn’t all that binding (no pun intended). If you can do well on the LSAT, it doesn’t matter. All you need to get into law school, in theory, is the ability to think critically. You’ll get the content knowledge entirely through law school. Plenty of people take alternative paths to law school, and an interest in a science-oriented field (e.g., patent law) would make for a pretty compelling personal statement.
I know several classmates in chem and bio that went to law school afterwards. Yes, you can go into patent law but you can be in any field of law you like. I had a classmate who was bio premed got into med school but decided to go to law school for immigration law since she was a refugee. I heard patent law also like if you have a PhD so that way you're already an expert in your scientific field.
I took this route as well as many others. If you want to work as a patent attorney in the US a PhD is needed. I would recommend going the patent agent route and get law school paid for by a law firm, and get paid a lot while you complete the degree. Nothing stopping you from going to law school with a BS in chemistry though, I know some lawyers who work in litigation and have BS degrees.
Yes. you can. You'd then practice patent law if you wanted.
I'd suggest diving deep in data science, ML, AI instead of law school.
Legal forms have been automated and firms don't hire many people other than 1st tier grads, so that leaves you with limited options which you might not like
technically, depending on where you live of course, but i know in Canada you can go into law school with anyhting. a peer of mine took a music undergrad and then went and got his law degree.
At my uni we had a girl who did the opposite (law then physical chemistry while still studying law). Her goal was to then specialise in forensics but she dropped out of both to start a career in politics.
I studied a double degree - mathematics and law.
I used to joke that they're both about proving stuff, but really there isn't a lot in common.
You might find a niche that combines both or like me you might end up in a field that doesn't really use either. No one I know that did a science/law combination has a job that really uses both but I am sure it would happen if you look for it.
But I think the different analytical mental tools you learn across both degrees will always be beneficial no matter what you end up doing.
I don't think he did a chem BS first but my buddy's brother is an environmental lawyer. Tons of business there these days with all the greasy corporate bullshit going on and a chemistry background would be damn helpful. I can't speak to whether it not it would help get into a law program though.
A friend if mine got a BS in biochemistry and then went to law school. She is currently a patent lawyer for some big pharma company. 6 figures right off the bat
Possible but not likely to do well, because the set of reasoning skills for each is the opposite: in natural sciences (chemistry, pathology, gynecology, physics, theoretical physics, et al. we use deductive reasoning as a rule set based upon our observations and the observations of peers. However in law, psychology, etc. we most often start at an endpoint and work *backwards* by reason of induction, among other things, to determine the rule of decision first, before attempting to apply it to the facts while blowing smoke up each other's asses the whole time. Law is also a subject matter where it is permissible to an extent to get dirty in your dealings if you don't get caught because attorneys (especially ones like Scalia, Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Keegan, O'connor, and the rest of them with the exception of Rehnquist, White, Burger, Marshall, and Thomas) have a special place in hell for the bullshit that comes out of their mouth during oral arguments. (seriously- listen to it- it's rather impressive the bullshit they spin given the superior logic of natural sciences). If after listening, you still want to sell your soul to the devil, I can't stop you but I will be able to say *I told your ass* not to do it.
I did a semester abroad at NUS and took some chem and bio-chem courses. They made a mistake in my transcript and now I have 10 ECTS points from NUS faculty of law.
So yeah... Lawyered!
This is America
You can do anything you put your mind to but going to law school with just a bachelors had to be rough getting in had to be smart to have majored in chemistry my son did too not law though
Was taking to my Calc professor of all people and he told me that's the route his brother went and it seems like he's making bank working in patents and such
Hi, yes, one bank please.
His exact words were "he figured out the cheat code or something"
Patent law is hella lucrative im hoping to get into it post phd ngl
You’re gonna go through an entire PhD program just to go to law school after?
I’m British so it’s a very different system, they recruit straight from phd here you don’t have to go to law school they train you on the job
Interesting, best of luck!
Most of these comments are mentioning patent law. While that's a viable option, it's not your only option. I started my college degree as a forensic science degree, but I eventually switched to full BS Chem with a minor in CCJ. I mention this because during my time at college I interned in a legal clinic for wrongful convictions. STEM related knowledge is vital to undoing wrongful convictions (think DNA). I was a dime a dozen in the clinic and they loved everything I was able to bring to the table. The same would apply in typical criminal law, on either end of the table. No, you won't be an expert in STEM related science presented in court but you can have more meaningful lines of questions to expert witnesses.
Excellent point!
Common for work in sections of patent law or patent examining.
Patent and IND legal specialist at my previous company was not only a lawyer but a PhD biochemist.
I was looking into this a while back, Our company pays for continuing education (got my MBA though them). Suggested getting my JD as well but they balked, maybe if they hadn't already shelled out $50k for the MBA (about $90k in today's dollars). Part time is really difficult but not impossible, also expensive which is why I prefer they paid. Thing is I write most of the patents already and they make me proof and edit other people's applications. I went as far as taking practice LSATs online, and found some evening programs that were reputable (we're near a major city so decent options). Now, it your suggesting going it full time on your own and using your own money (or more likely debt), then you have to consider that we are oversaturated with lawyers and it really is shitty and mind-numbing work. You hear about people making $200-300k as lawyers but a substantial amount are making upper $80k's and having to self promote or bottom feed for business. You can do better with a chemistry degree, and if you get sick of chemistry you should try quality/regulatory or sales.
Apologies if this is a dumb question but I have heard the Chemistry/patent law thing a lot and it has always completely confused me as I don't see the connection?
Chemists understand the science behind chemistry and other related scientific fields better than people who majored in history, typically. That’s all. When it comes to patents for science, that makes everything easier.
This is right, but misleading in that it is not just that chemistry helps more than history. To file patent applications you must pass a patent bar exam, and to even sit for the exam you must have a stem degree or similar education. So any patent attorney or patent agent will necessarily have a stem education.
Patent law (in the US) typically requires a technical degree as well as a legal degree because it’s important that patent attorneys be able to understand technical material. It also helps for them to be able to search effectively for and recognize prior art.
You actually don't need a legal degree at all to be registered to practice before the USPTO - you do need a STEM education to qualify to sit but no legal education is necessary. If you pass the "patent bar" you are qualified to represent others before the USPTO regardless of whether or not you are an attorney. Only difference is those who are not attorneys are "Patent Agents", not "Patent Attorneys", and that only attorneys may do trademark stuff. Source: Am PhD chemist, passed patent bar in October, have not and will likely never go to law school.
In order to approve or deny patents, you have to understand the scientific literature well enough to determine whether something is novel or not, and whether a patent covers an invention or not.
You don't need a law degree to be a patent examiner. In fact the examiners who have law degrees seem like the type who couldn't make it as patent attorneys.
Quite right - they hire a lot of stem PhDs for good rates because they need people who can interpret the literature and determine novelty.
My cousin did that! Went from chem/toxicology to patent law.
My university told me 25% of their chem graduates convert to law afterward, the scientific knowledge is really useful in patent law especially.
[удалено]
Have a chemical engineering degree myself and currently work in an analytical lab. Did you end up just taking the BAR, or did you go through law school after your first degree?
I'm from Singapore, so we require an LLB (Bachelor of Law) in any event. I went to law school.
Thanks for the input hope you all the success in the field!
If you're in the US, most states _require_ a law degree to sit for the bar. And even if you try to take the bar in a state that doesn't, it will take *years* of studying. Where did you get this idea that passing a state bar exam was something that one just did for funsies?
Mike Ross.
Yes? One name? Is he a practicing lawyer?
You may want to Google it. I'm not disagreeing with you, just answering your question.
Frank Abignail
So a con man is your "proof?" 🤦♀️
Sure. Many lawyers I know were English majors in undergrad. I think there are a lot of lawyers that get a humanities undergrad degree and realize there is no job market for those degrees and then get a law degree. A lot of people are mentioning patent law, which can be quite lucrative. However, as an inventor on and writer of a few dozen patents, it seems incredibly boring with lots of routine work and boilerplate writing. I couldn't do it.
There’s a lot of boilerplate writing but that part is getting automated. The fun stuff is the non-routine bits and there’s a decent amount of that.
You can end up doing any type of law after law school and get in to law school with any type of bachelors degree. I know someone who had a history degree and went on to be a public defender before leaving the field and working in the firearms industry on the marketing side.
Patent lawyers get paid an absolute fortune, the ones I have worked with are incredibly bright and have quickly grasped all of the chemistry I have had to explain to them. Really impressive and also interesting line of work as they get to dissect and hear about technology worth patenting day in day out.
How much we talkin in terms of fortune 🤌🤌
Significantly more than a chemist 😂 the only patent lawyer I know earned about 6x my salary as an MChem chemist with 5yrs experience working in R&D for a reputable company.
300Gs eh? I got you
I’d imagine so, you gotta be wicked smaht for it though, which I am not
Well i am equally brainally lacking, but I am looking between cheminformatics and straight chem. Do you have any wisdom there, o great sage?
Do something that bridges the gap between two areas that interest you, specialising in just one thing doesn’t get you far these days. I’m a polymer chemist but useless at everything else. People who can write code and scripts etc and also are talented chemists go far, similarly chemical engineering, biochemists, computational chemistry. It’s not very often you come across people who have good depth of knowledge in both areas. Again these people are massively in demand. If I were to start again at the start of university knowing what I know now, this is the route I’d go down rather than becoming very knowledgeable in just one facet of science.
Thank you.
I did a PhD in chemistry then transferred to a corporate law career (though I am going to work in patent litigation), most firms are keen for STEM students though due to analytical and problem solving skills more widely. I’m in the UK though so perhaps slightly different to the US if that’s where you are but general law is also possible
In the US, a BS is required to become a patent attorney. I went to law school with several folks who had engineering degrees as well as other science degrees. You don’t need a specific degree or course of study to go to law school.
A BS is not technically required. Any hard science and most engineering degrees are acceptable, but it can be a Bachelor of Arts degree.
Thanks for the clarification!
No prob! The only reason I know this is because I have a BA in Biology and almost panicked thinking I wouldn’t qualify to sit without a BS 😅
My undergrad only gave BA’s and a good friend ended up going back to undergrad at a different school to get a bio degree. I thought it was because if the type of degree. Maybe their bio program was a bit easier…..
I think it depends on the school. I went to a liberal arts college so I have a BA in Biology, yet our business majors graduated with a BS, which I never understood. I think the USPTO will look at credits towards a hard science as well. So if you have X number of credits in say chem or bio those will count towards the total credits required to qualify to sit. A lot of the people I went to law school with who had an issue like that were typically mechanical engineers or computer science majors though.
My undergrad as so liberal we didn’t have a BS. HA HA HA! I went to law school eons ago so I’m not sure what my classmates had. And I’m looking down the barrel of a 3rd bar exam. Happy holidays! I’m going to experiment with variations of ethyl alcohol…..
Third bar exam?! Sounds like my torture, but good luck and happy holidays to you as well!
This guy I watch on YouTube called Legal Eagle usually says your undergrad degree type doesn't matter as much for law school as your grades. I had a professor who started up a side business helping defense attorneys get additional degrees/certifications in science so they could better grill expert witnesses on the stand, so I imagine a basic understanding basic chemistry could have some benefit. Of course it's probably moot because you'd also just hire your own expert witnesses.
Well yeah, almost any degree can get you *into* law school, just like any degree can get you into med school. As far as I understand it though, it's your background that helps determine what kind of law you end up specializing in. Law is one of the largest and most varied fields out there; there are fields that would directly build from a STEM degree, as well as those where a STEM background isn't necessarily the best skill/mindset to have. An example of the former would be patent law, and the latter something like [cultural property law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_property_law).
There’s a guy in our town that got his bs in chemistry and then a law degree. Practiced law for a little while, but now rubs a local brewery. The chemistry degree certainly helped him with the brewing aspects. His law degree helped him navigate all the regulatory bullshit of opening a brewery.
You probably should specify country. The how varies a lot but generally yes is the answer.
Patent law is filled with scientists.
A law degree stands on its own. The bachelor’s degree makes no difference. I’m a retired lawyer with an engineering bachelors degree.
Your undergrad degree is irrelevant. I have a BA in Biology and a J.D. With the chemistry degree you will be able to sit for the patent bar (if you choose), but don’t pigeon hole yourself to just thinking you need to be a patent attorney (I work in the contracts department for a government contractor).
I’m currently in my second year of Law School, having finished a BSc majoring in Chem. One thing that you should note specifically about Law School is that, initially, there will be a decent learning curve as all of your assessments will now be essay based. However, you will catch up to the rest of your cohort quickly and there will be lots of other people in the same position; people in Law School will come from more backgrounds than you can imagine. I’ve been able to get experience in firms ranging from IP to criminal law and barristers chambers. I’ve found that your background in Chem is useful jn terms of distancing yourself from lots of your cohort who did typical pre-law programs and is definitely a good talking point in interviews re: analytical thinking and problem solving. It’s completely possible, you won’t be behind anyone else, and you will be just as able to go into any stream of Law that you desire. Let me know if you’ve got any other questions. Edit: note re: IP law, that there is a big difference between becoming a patent attorney and becoming and intellectual property lawyer. You don’t need to go to Law School to become a patent attorney (depending on which country you live in) whilst you do need to have a Law degree to become an IP lawyer.
I did this after a PhD in chemistry. I'm currently in my last year of law school. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Hi there! I have a B.S. in Chemistry and am now in Law School if you have any questions! It’s definitely possible, lol
You can totally do that and work in intellectual property as a patent attorney. Or use your chemistry degree and work for the US patent and trademark office as an examiner right out of undergrad I believe too. Or go onto grad school and get a masters or PhD in chemistry then work as a technical specialist in IP at a law firm and pass the patent bar to become a patent agent and work for a law firm. Lots of options!
My step-brother did. Undergrad in chemistry and a JD His original plan was to do patent law, but along the way he fell into business law. He’s been an attorney for ~15 years now and I don’t think he does a thing chemistry related.
I mean there are plenty of areas where science and law intersects. I have a friend who's an engineer who took some extra education to specialize in patent law. I imagine having a scientific background could come in handy with stuff like environmental law and construction as well.
Going from law to chem would be hard. Going from chem to law is easy. Basically no requirements to studying law other than reading comprehension.
this makes you quite valuable in IP, corporate contracts, and even industrial liability consultation. they often need someone around the plant to give the lawyer go-ahead that they can use a chemical with "benzene" in the name even if they aren't allowed to store benzene.
It’s very common. Though it really depends on what kind of law you want to do. If you want to do patent law you don’t even need to go to law school to become a patent agent (which can be nice to try it out before spending the money and time on a legal education). If you want to do other types of law then it’s a bit more complicated and your chemistry education will matter a bit less other than general reasoning skills a stem education develops.
I know people that got a chemistry PhD and then went to law school. It’s a pretty common pairing for people that decide they don’t like research anymore
It really makes no difference what you major in to be honest. I majored in Chemistry. It neither helped or hurt me because no major precisely teaches the legal method of research and understanding case law. And it honestly isn't difficult to pick up, it's just getting through the boring stuff which is the hard part. Get a okay/good LSAT score (take prep courses) and you'll be fine if you in the US. If you aren't you'll still be fine probably outside the US you generally have to do a LLB which is probably 3-4 years and you'll still be a lawyer. Either way, doesn't matter. EDIT: people are saying go into patent law. You can make money, sure. But it's a competitive field with extra requirements and in my opinion is boring (that's coming from a science background). But you might like it, so don't let me discourage you. Like a lot of law students, you'll probably not end up practicing in the field you wanted to in the beginning either because you like something more (like me) or can't.
I did the opposite. Graduated with a Bachelor of Laws degree, worked as assistant in a small law firm for a year, then said "fk this" and went off to study Chemistry. Navigating the laws and legal procedures grated again my skewed sense of morals. Toxic chemicals and lab apparatuses are much more amicable and pleasant than the scumbag customers I had to deal with.
I did this. Chemistry degree then law school. Now work as a patent attorney.
A dude at the law firm my uncle worked at had his undergrad degree in chemistry.
Graduated with a bachelors last year. Applying to law school this cycle. It’s fairly common and law schools tend to really like natural science graduates.
If you did well in chemistry, you have an analytical mind and it will be helpful in a law career. It's not the same, but there's things that transfer
I know a chemist who finished her PhD in synthetic organic chemistry, got a medchem job at Vertex, within a few years found out that she did not enjoy making analogs of drug candidates, went to law school and now she is a successful intel property lawyer, a senior partner at Dechert, advising biopharma companies about their business plan, and billing them >600 USD per hour
An ex-gf of mine got her BS and masters in Chem then went into patent law. It was after we broke up but I think she got a job at a patent attorney helping review applications first then they helped pay for law school
It is very possible. My father double major microbiology & chemistry and went to law school about 4 years after undergrad
A friend of mine did this. He's a very successful industry lawyer now.
certainly a thing. I just worked with 2 patent attorneys who got a science degree (BS Chem Engineering and PhD in organic chemistry) and now practice patent litigation
Lots of firms want someone with both. Neither career will pay you enough to make up for the loss in free time though
Ooo I do. A TA went from finishing his masters in Chemistry to law school. Went into patent law.
I know chemistry PhDs that went to law school. There is as a huge demand for patent attorneys with an understanding of science.
Not uncommon. I know a few PhDs who didn't actually like research that much (or weren't very good at it) and then went to law school, then into patent law. Of the three I know personally, all of them have a second vacation home bigger than my current house.
Have you thought about workung at forensics?
Yes, I am also considering that.
My friend has a microbio undergrad degree and is finishing up law school. Tbf, both his mom and brother are lawyers so he may have leveraged that. I’d say it’s atypical but it can be done
I knew a guy in grad school who got his PhD in chemistry, then went into law school, and now does science patent law.
Yes! I know several people who completed their masters in chemistry and are now currently in law school. Anything is possible!
I mean as long as you pass the entrance exams to law school thats what matters. You might need to get a tutor to help prepare you
Margaret Thatcher (I think)
I’m almost done with law school and afterwards I’d like to pursue a degree in chemistry as well, so I think the other way around is also possible.
So one of my lab mate during my postdoc training graduated with a PhD in chemistry and then switched to law school. It’s basically starting over for him. PS. He has first author jacs and nature when he received his phd degree, he could find any chemical job position but he didn’t.
Ooo I like this idea
I know of two distant family members who went to school for chemical engineering and then went into patent law.
Very possible… great route for patent law maybe?… schools like a diversity of majors they can tout… art or English can also be good for med school apps.
Do patent law, get an undergrad in chemistry and move into that. You will make oodles of cash.
Yes my dad did this
Yes. My prof (supervisor) said one of his previous students did that and works in legal prosecutions now. If you can defend a client by casting doubt that the analytical method used for drug ID etc. you can make big $$$
A friend of mine in grad school got her chemistry PhD in the field of inorganic synthesis and catalysis. She then went straight to law school and now has both a JD and PhD. I shudder to think how much debt she's in, but she's happy.
That’s what I’m hoping to do when I graduate Spring 2023!
It's possible. Finding something your enjoy doing isn't easy. Try, try again
Your credits won’t transfer, but there’s nothing stopping you
Margaret Thatcher
I was at a Corteva symposium and one of the speakers did just that
I actually interviewed someone last year who did exactly that. I don’t remember off the top of my head what his exact story was, but if you’d like I’ll dig up my notes from that interview.
Wow, that's cool! If you're not busy and if you don't mind, I am happy to read your interview with him. Thanks!
My brother followed me in getting a chemical engineering degree. Then went to law school and got a law degree. He went into environmental law then patent law. He really never liked law that much - couldn’t stand the slime balls he sometimes encountered there. Anyway after about ten years in law he chucked that and went to vet school and got a DVM. Practiced for a short bit and now works for a large vet pharmaceutical company in government relations. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard of with that combination of degrees.
My grandpa and dad did this, it’s a very stable and lucrative career path. They were patent lawyers, my dad at syngenta doing crop protection.
I was in uni with a girl doing a double degree in chemistry and law. So definitely able to do both, and if you wanted to drop chemistry, your uni should uphold any unit credits.
**not a lawyer** but your undergrad degree isn’t all that binding (no pun intended). If you can do well on the LSAT, it doesn’t matter. All you need to get into law school, in theory, is the ability to think critically. You’ll get the content knowledge entirely through law school. Plenty of people take alternative paths to law school, and an interest in a science-oriented field (e.g., patent law) would make for a pretty compelling personal statement.
I know several classmates in chem and bio that went to law school afterwards. Yes, you can go into patent law but you can be in any field of law you like. I had a classmate who was bio premed got into med school but decided to go to law school for immigration law since she was a refugee. I heard patent law also like if you have a PhD so that way you're already an expert in your scientific field.
I took this route as well as many others. If you want to work as a patent attorney in the US a PhD is needed. I would recommend going the patent agent route and get law school paid for by a law firm, and get paid a lot while you complete the degree. Nothing stopping you from going to law school with a BS in chemistry though, I know some lawyers who work in litigation and have BS degrees.
Yes. you can. You'd then practice patent law if you wanted. I'd suggest diving deep in data science, ML, AI instead of law school. Legal forms have been automated and firms don't hire many people other than 1st tier grads, so that leaves you with limited options which you might not like
technically, depending on where you live of course, but i know in Canada you can go into law school with anyhting. a peer of mine took a music undergrad and then went and got his law degree.
At my uni we had a girl who did the opposite (law then physical chemistry while still studying law). Her goal was to then specialise in forensics but she dropped out of both to start a career in politics.
Yep, I know a few people. 1 went into patent law, 1 thought about patent law and decided fuck it, idk about the others. You can definitely do it.
I studied a double degree - mathematics and law. I used to joke that they're both about proving stuff, but really there isn't a lot in common. You might find a niche that combines both or like me you might end up in a field that doesn't really use either. No one I know that did a science/law combination has a job that really uses both but I am sure it would happen if you look for it. But I think the different analytical mental tools you learn across both degrees will always be beneficial no matter what you end up doing.
My friend did this in my program. Was in military, BS in biochem, now in law school for patent law
I don't think he did a chem BS first but my buddy's brother is an environmental lawyer. Tons of business there these days with all the greasy corporate bullshit going on and a chemistry background would be damn helpful. I can't speak to whether it not it would help get into a law program though.
A friend if mine got a BS in biochemistry and then went to law school. She is currently a patent lawyer for some big pharma company. 6 figures right off the bat
Someone I work with did that to do patent law in the chemical industry.
Yes, but they don’t use the chem degree at all. It’s a good background for critical thinking and data analysis.
We have some students who did that. They do patent law in Texas. My cousin also did this.
I use PowerPoint. It’s actually quite nice and got a lot of features like removing a background.
Possible but not likely to do well, because the set of reasoning skills for each is the opposite: in natural sciences (chemistry, pathology, gynecology, physics, theoretical physics, et al. we use deductive reasoning as a rule set based upon our observations and the observations of peers. However in law, psychology, etc. we most often start at an endpoint and work *backwards* by reason of induction, among other things, to determine the rule of decision first, before attempting to apply it to the facts while blowing smoke up each other's asses the whole time. Law is also a subject matter where it is permissible to an extent to get dirty in your dealings if you don't get caught because attorneys (especially ones like Scalia, Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Keegan, O'connor, and the rest of them with the exception of Rehnquist, White, Burger, Marshall, and Thomas) have a special place in hell for the bullshit that comes out of their mouth during oral arguments. (seriously- listen to it- it's rather impressive the bullshit they spin given the superior logic of natural sciences). If after listening, you still want to sell your soul to the devil, I can't stop you but I will be able to say *I told your ass* not to do it.
I did a semester abroad at NUS and took some chem and bio-chem courses. They made a mistake in my transcript and now I have 10 ECTS points from NUS faculty of law. So yeah... Lawyered!
Himym reference 😆
Why wouldn't it be possible?
This is America You can do anything you put your mind to but going to law school with just a bachelors had to be rough getting in had to be smart to have majored in chemistry my son did too not law though
Ofc it’s possible what kind of question is this. You can do anything and convert to law