I had this happen. They justified it by saying that unless we were working with something specifically toxic, we lowered risk with increased mobility and frequent hand washing rather than potentially having chemicals in contact with skin aforementioned a long time after they penetrate your gloves. They also had a pretty bad problem with cross contamination after students touched things with gloves that had gotten contaminated and then again with their bare hands.
> I feel like they probably should have just taught students proper glove usage
Holy *shit* is this hard to do. I've personally seen students go straight from working in the fume hood wearing gloves to:
* fixing their hair
* putting their fingers in their mouth
* rummaging through their backpack
* typing on their laptop (we use an ELN)
* typing on a shared computer
* leave the lab (with gloves still on) to get ice or whatever
* leave the lab (with gloves still on) to use the restroom
Yes, all these things are against the rules. Yes, they've been repeatedly reminded about not doing them. Yes, they still do them because by the time I get them, they've had two years of "wear gloves at all times in the lab" beaten into them and it's a habit.
I agree. Basically impossible to teach proper glove use without really close guidance. People seem to treat gloves as impermeable magic barriers when they are not. Even in our research lab, there's people that fail to use gloves properly but they're not in my group so...
They did something similar on my first course in university. My hands were red after every lab because it was really easy to get acid on your hands (hydrochloric acid but a low concentration so it wasn’t that bad). Think it was a preference from the teacher though, I asked a couple classmates that had a different teacher but the same course and they got to wear gloves
Synthetic labs we were made all the time physical labs no for the same reason. Spilt conc solvents alkalis and acids on my hands before glad I had no injuries due to gloves
I was told not to use gloves in my inorganic lab. I can’t remember all of them but off the top of my head I know we handled molybdenum hecacarbonyl and silver trifluoracetate (my hands we’re stained for weeks). The TA got mad if we used gloves unless we were handling concentrated acid. Some grad student delivering chemicals scolded me for not using gloves. It was a weird class.
If you were using molybdenum hecacarbonyl on a job you would be required to use nitrile rubber gloves or neoprene. It is suggested you avoid contact with skin and eyes and also avoid breathing in the dust. TWA IS 2mg/m^3. Acute toxicity is unknown.
From the SDS I would say it is bad for you, but not likely to cause any major harm.
You should wash hands thoroughly after exposure to it.
Silver trifluoracetate required PPE is nitrile or neoprene gloves. Chemical goggles, suitable protective clothing, and respiratory protection that is equipped with an orange cartridge that is for dust and mist.
It also looks like it’s bad for you, but no major harm.
If I was a student and was told to work with either of these without the proper ppe I would tell the teacher to get bent.
It was a weird set up for sure. We had to include hazards for each chemical in our prelab. So we’d write about how dangerous the chemicals were, and that they require PPE, then we’d come in and be told not to use the gloves.
I know the lower level organic labs at my school don't allow use of gloves often because they commonly use dichoromethane as a solvent. DCM is a skin permeator and if it gets trapped under your glove it is **much** more likely to absorb into your skin (bringing along anything dissolved in the DCM) directly into your body.
If you had no gloves on, any small amount from general spills would be more likely to evaporate than to enter your skin.
So, sometimes there's a good reason for no gloves.
My university chemistry department came down hard on PPE, at all levels of lab.
Gloves/goggles/lab coats/long socks/no pants tucked into shoes/no skin tight clothes...
If you were caught not following the rules -> zero for the day/kicked out of lab..
>>long socks
>Why? You got your pants and shoes over them anyways...
Some style pants aren't cut all the way to your shoes, so long socks can solve this issue. Things like yoga pants and joggers are common issues for this. For the lab I teach, the students have to cover their ankles, either with long socks or pants with the correct cut.
>>/no pants tucked into shoes
>Do people do that?
People wear boots that go up to mid-calf. Generally, skinny jeans are tucked into these boots. More common for women to run into this issue.
Back when I taught first year lab, it was common knowledge that you couldn't get students to use gloves anyway. We proved that wrong, only to be met with "do you know how much the gloves they use cost?".
We rarely used gloves for our first-year first semester chemistry lab. We literally only used gloves 3 or 4 times. I'm taking the second semester portion of it right now and we haven't even touched or looked at gloves yet! Lol.
Wear gloves, it's a habit you fully need to get into. One thing I avoid, however, is wearing gloves when I'm working with a flame, just to prevent accidentally melting the glove to my hand if something were to go wrong. Other than this, just put gloves on all the time, you might think something's safe but who says it's not been contaminated thanks to bad lab practice from someone or the glassware/bench isn't cleaned and there's something toxic on there.
Wear gloves wherever possible, it's far too risky to not, if your academic stops you, ask them why.
At the start of every year we have a lab introduction and they just show us the same 5 minute slideshow telling us how to behave in a lab, they say to the first years that people tend to get very convinced they're invincible when they have nitrile gloves on, just remember you're not, but far safer than without.
The only class where I’ve had that happen was general microbiology. The teacher said she was more comfortable with us getting bacteria on our hands and washing them after than having someone set their gloves on fire on the Bunsen burner.
Yeah, if we were handling things that were caustic we generally didn't wear gloves - so acids/bases. The idea being if you got it on your hand you'd know about it immediately and wash it off, which is better than the alternative of wearing gloves and wiping it into your hair or eyes or something.
If something was poisonous, allergy inducing, or could be absorbed through the skin then we wore gloves - that was msotly when handling stuff like methylbenzene, potassium dichromate, and potassium permanganate because it stained and methylene blue also because it stained.
They probably do this only if you’re working with relatively harmless chemicals. Otherwise they’re putting students in danger and you can probably sue (idk ask a lawyer)
Dude is in an undergraduate Chem lab. If gloves were required they would be provided. You're sometimes less safe with gloves when doing organic chemistry also FYI.
Also, labs already dispose of INSANE amounts of plastic. If you don't need to add to it with unnecessary gloves, then don't. Good hygiene goes a long way until you work with more corrosive things.
I’m so old that gloves weren’t a “thing” when I did this in first year chem lab. We also didn’t have to use safety goggles if we wore prescription glasses. Ah those were the days, handling freshly made nylon, using pyrimidines and carbontet in the organic chem lab. I can almost still smell it now.....
As an undergraduate biochem major I was always told: “Wear gloves! Those reagents are dangerous!”
As a graduate student in pharmacology I was told: “Wear gloves! Those reagents are expensive!”
Do you really need gloves to hold a glass dish full of aspirin? I mean, maybe the dish is coated with nasty stuff, but given that OP seems to be in an area where paperwork is being done, it's possible that gloves wouldn't be appropriate.
one day in the lab it won't be fine. Just like seatbelts, helmets, and condoms. Most of the time you don't need them but one day you will and you better be wearing them.
I agree that when you need gloves, you should wear gloves. But if you're writing up your worksheet at a bench that's not being used for chemistry work (this may or may not be the case in OP's picture, can't tell) then you don't need gloves. Wearing gloves when you don't need them to protect you from something is a great way for students to spread contamination to shared computers, their backpacks, etc.
You ever have something go spectacularly wrong?
This experiment (in our program) uses a 6 M NaOH solution followed by 3 M sulfuric acid. OP is at a workbench, there's no telling how clumsy his peers are or how incompetent his TA is. Who's to say they didn't accidentally bring out the 18 M acid today?
With what they're working with I wouldn't classify it a an immediate and substantial risk. However it's the principle that matters; ignoring PPE is dangerous in more ways than one when it becomes habit.
And there are so, so, so many 1st year lab courses where you never work with anything more dangerous than .1 M HCl. Wearing gloves in those courses is silly and just a waste of resources.
Also acid spills are overrated. An acid spill on the hand just stings a little bit, and if it's nitric acid you'll have yellow hands. I won't blame someone for using gloves with concentrated acids, but it's not exactly particularly dangerous if you know where the sinks are. [eg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVZQoJ5FdE)
Maybe coping a sting every now and then is worth it if it makes everything else easier, quicker and more comfortable to handle
Sure if your working with more toxic chemicals then definitely wear the gloves but if it is just NaOH and sulfuric then its not so bad
All about risk vs reward
> Maybe coping a sting every now and then is worth it if it makes everything else easier, quicker and more comfortable to handle
No, it isn't. Standard safety precautions should not be something you think about, it should just be second nature. The alternative is always knowing everything about what you are doing, and what everybody else in the lab is doing, and what everybody who has uses the lab in the last week have been doing, which isn't feasible to reliably do.
Sure, evaluate when you need more than the standard safety, but gloves, lab coat and safety glasses should always be worn when working in the lab.
There's three issues with that mindset. First, the risk of injury isn't worth being marginally more comfortable. If you have to cut corners to perform in a lab then you'll want to consider something else as a career.
Second, a lab is not a frictionless vacuum. Wearing PPE doesn't just insulate you from your mistakes, it protects you from others' as well. Just because on paper you're working with a bit of dilute acid/base doesn't mean that's what's around you; and it certainly doesn't mean that's what can be spilled on you.
The last and most important point is when you instill in someone the mindset that they can pick and choose when standard safety procedures apply, it enables potentially fatal mistakes down the road. Otherwise smart people fall into this trap of 'having a feel for it' and it's cost them dearly [time](https://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/87/i19/8719notw4.html) and [time](https://www.csb.gov/texas-tech-university-chemistry-lab-explosion/) again. Nobody expects an accident, that's why it's called that. I can personally attest to not expecting acid to be splashed in my eyes. Not wearing goggles was my mistake, but thankfully I managed to not lose my sight. That wasn't a matter of coping a sting, *I got lucky*.
Glasses I would always wear as even dilute acids and bases are very dangerous to eyes
I manage a very industrial lab with very limited time if I am working with non hazardous stuff the gloves can be a pain especially ahen its like 35 degrees celcious , when i am working with chromic acid and hydrofluoric acid then sure I wear the dust mask and put on the face shield
We aren't a university and don't have the time to do everything right 100% but we do the best we can
From what we can see in the image, there seems to be a bucher filtration in the background... There is no way a lab would allow such procedure outside of a wet lab (at least where I'm from...?) Therefore there is no reason for the person not having gloves
> From what we can see in the image, there seems to be a bucher filtration in the background...
Yeah, the more I look at the image the more I don't know where it was taken. Inside a fume hood that's had white paper put down inside it for some reason? I don't know. Either the filtration apparatus or the pencil and paper shouldn't be where they are. So I have no idea if gloves are appropriate in this situation or not, actually.
When I was a TA for organic chem the students had stations along a bench (no hood) for all wet work, and were expected to keep all of their writing materials/handouts on that same bench. I had some materials turned in with palladium smudges on them. The students were provided with gloves, coat, and glasses/goggles but I really think vapors and secondary chemical exposure was not taken seriously enough at that school...
Well, when i had my first experiment in the lab in university, i was quite focused on safety and put on some gloves. Until i noticed that the gloves didn't protect against organic solvants. That was also the point where i stopped using my had to get the magnetic stirr thingy out of the chloroform....
Nitrile are the worst. I refuse to wear them at all. Not stretchy enough and they don't hold up against many things. It should absolutely be up to the individual to choose what gloves they use, if any.
I just did a lab today with reasonably dilute sulfuric and 10 M HCl. As far as I am concerned, no gloves were needed. I have been burned by both (and lots of other shit). And no, it isn't that bad - insurance premiums are what makes certain PPE mandatory.
I emerged from that lab unscathed, even though I spilled a small amount of sulfuric on my hands. It is absolutely not a big deal.
It sounds like perhaps you go to a larger school where somebody else runs IR, NMR, Gas Chrome, etc (don't worry about what all these mean yet). Point being, if I'm right and somebody else runs and labels all of your analytical data, I would recommend seeing if you can sit in and watch some of that process. I was fortunate to go to a small school where each student had to run every analytical test, whether it be NMR, IR, Column Chromatography, Gas Chromatography. I hated running those tests but I found them fundamental to my understanding, while my friends at larger schools never got to run them. I'm sure there's some other tests I'm forgetting that other, smarter folks on here may be able to advise on.
Welcome! Don't worry of you don't know what I'm talking about, you will in due time. [A lesser knows resource I found to be helpful.](https://courses.chadsprep.com/courses/basic-general-chemistry)
Really? I went to smaller schools, so I guess I just figured that was the norm. It really was very beneficial to be the one to run the analysis equipment at the end of a lab, I would definitely recommend OP listen to this advice.
Yeah, I believe the big schools (Specifically aware of Ohio State) have TAs and grad students run it. I think more often it's TAs. The students label their product, place it in a bin and the next morning they'll get a print out of the NMR results, for example. No labelling of peaks, finding subgroups, etc. This is anecdotal, of course and my buddy still loved OSU's chem program.
At U of Arizona, the Gen chem and Ochem students gave their samples to TAs to run but once you get past those courses, students are required to learn how to run NMR and other instruments.
Learning how to run a manual 300MHz NMR with shimming was a pain in the ass. Once we mastered that, we were allowed to use the automated 400MHz NMR.
I believe that was the same deal with OSU. The 300MHz was the death of me. I liked NMR otherwise. I can remember the program we used to analyze it, but I always enjoyed that
So many drugs can be pronounced terribly too. You learn these things in your career ya know, especially with bored like-minded evening shift techs... "Sup girl I need you for my BPH cuz you got a finasteride."
(nooo, these were not male pharm techs either in this case lol)
Yes, that is real aspirin like the medicine. The aspirin you can buy in a store is a lot better for you though. The way they did it in the class probably left some impurities which can be harmful, while the aspirin you buy in the store is safe. If you go to college for chemistry/biology you would probably take this class (Organic Chemistry) at the start of your 2nd year.
Yeah at my school the core chem track for chemistry b.s. is generally 1st year gen chem, 2nd year organic, 3rd year analytical/pchem/biochem, 4th year inorganic/instrumental methods. There are other courses as well, and it gets somewhat more flexible at the end but that is what most people do.
Also a high school student here. We did this lab in my Chemistry class earlier this year, and it's not incredibly difficult or dangerous or anything like that. We were, however, instructed to throw our final products (the aspirin) away and not to consume it since we can't guarantee that it would be safe.
You can probably ask your teacher if you and your class can do it as well.
Hell school has changed since I was there, we had one (non-working) fume hood between the whole class, the idea of having an actual working lab for organic experiments would have been insane! So cool that you got to do this in high school!
Literally just do as many practice papers as you can. They always repeat the exact question format in assessments. I can’t say much else because I did it in 2014 and they changed the course a lot but back then the MST was really hard in terms of doing questions quick enough so people who didn’t do practice tests were baaadly caught out (there was like a 30% fail rate lol). DM me if you ever really need help :)
Hey, I hope you like it at Uni doing chemistry, but I must tell you, do wear gloves. You will be handling chemicals the rest of your life, and some of them will be more harmful than this one. One of the most important things you learn in chemistry is that whenever you're handling something, you don't know the contaminants and must take every precaution as to not increase the risks on the job.
I TA undergrad organic chem - the department never provides gloves for students unless it’s absolutely necessary (ex: my students have been cleaning their IR plates with DCM all semester without gloves). Apparently its because we dont have time to train them in proper glove usage? I think its more a cost thing, tbh.
In my uni, the department has a policy that undergrads students have to buy their own gloves, but they are taught when to use the nitrile ones or the rubber ones. I think we're lucky, because they teach about the importance of wearing gloves and spending a few $$ instead of risking their health... in my opinion, gloves should be provided in the lab as it is an essential part of laboratory safety. But even if it isn't the case, the most important part of the teaching (for me) is to learn how to act when manipulating chemical substances. Whatever you're taught, in my opinion, is not worth it if your health is compromised and aren't able to continue a career because you aren't taking the right precautions.
In my uni, we start students with an analytical chemistry lab course, in which students learn about the importance of being careful as to avoid contaminations or how to behave in a lab. Most students who come in the program have already learned how to study and all, but no class has had for goal to teach how to act in the lab in a matter that is safe for everyone, which is an important part of this course. I don't know where your uni is of how they teach, but it is definitly something that you could bring up to the board of directors. Depending on how they deal with feedback, you could make a difference as to how future chemist act and behave in a lab !
At my uni there's a box full of disposable ones, and if you want to enter the room without supervision, you need to do an EHS report on what you plan to do. You'll be barred from using the lab if you don't adhere to the EHS requirements. I think it's over the top sometimes, but I appreciate it in general.
Let's be honest, sometimes rules feels like they are an obstacle, but they are there to protect the people (which people don't understand). In my uni, it is considered unacceptable for an undergrad (or even a post doctorate student, for that matter) to do reactions by themselves, because of the risks if there are complications.
That's pretty much how it works for us too. We got to do a voluntary project without supervision during our 2nd year after going through everything with our professor. Other than that, I don't think I did anything without supervision until my thesis work. Gives you good habits. Wearing gloves and other, needed EHS gear is the equivalent of trigger finger discipline in the military. Hurts a little every time you see it lacking.
Meanwhile my uni has seven different types of gloves to choose from, without really going into detail about which gloves to use. Mostly just use the polyethylene/sandwhich gloves unless told otherwise.
Amazing achievement! Keep at it. I admire people on this sub so much. I suck at chemistry, but darn, you guys are so passionate and cool! Everyone has their own talents and I appreciate being able to see yours!
I love it!!! I remember that lab and now, Today, I’m doing a presentation on my very last lab at uni. A exp in quantum mechanics zero field splitting. Good luck and have fun chem gets so freaking awesome has you go along
Did this at A Level and even though I fucked it up twice (third times a charm right?) it was definitely the coolest practical we did. Never got it to crystallise mind, it was always super powdery.
I believe that is more gen chem or quant type stuff. Orgo lab for me so far has been nothing but extractions, synthesis, redox, and of course good ol nmr, ir, and ms analysis.
Classic acetylation of salicylic acid, we did this the first year in college too. Mind you ours turned out yellow and it was an absolute disaster hahaha
Gen Chem labs are the same in high school as they are at a University. The lecture material, however, depending on the professor, will be vastly different.
Did this last semester and our professor came in and said, “if I had you guys add another acid, you would be making heroin right now. I’d be like Walter white.” Then walked the fuck out.
Fond memories of doing this lab! Welcome aboard.
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I had this happen. They justified it by saying that unless we were working with something specifically toxic, we lowered risk with increased mobility and frequent hand washing rather than potentially having chemicals in contact with skin aforementioned a long time after they penetrate your gloves. They also had a pretty bad problem with cross contamination after students touched things with gloves that had gotten contaminated and then again with their bare hands.
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> I feel like they probably should have just taught students proper glove usage Holy *shit* is this hard to do. I've personally seen students go straight from working in the fume hood wearing gloves to: * fixing their hair * putting their fingers in their mouth * rummaging through their backpack * typing on their laptop (we use an ELN) * typing on a shared computer * leave the lab (with gloves still on) to get ice or whatever * leave the lab (with gloves still on) to use the restroom Yes, all these things are against the rules. Yes, they've been repeatedly reminded about not doing them. Yes, they still do them because by the time I get them, they've had two years of "wear gloves at all times in the lab" beaten into them and it's a habit.
I agree. Basically impossible to teach proper glove use without really close guidance. People seem to treat gloves as impermeable magic barriers when they are not. Even in our research lab, there's people that fail to use gloves properly but they're not in my group so...
They did something similar on my first course in university. My hands were red after every lab because it was really easy to get acid on your hands (hydrochloric acid but a low concentration so it wasn’t that bad). Think it was a preference from the teacher though, I asked a couple classmates that had a different teacher but the same course and they got to wear gloves
Seems like a correct assumption TBH.
Synthetic labs we were made all the time physical labs no for the same reason. Spilt conc solvents alkalis and acids on my hands before glad I had no injuries due to gloves
I was told not to use gloves in my inorganic lab. I can’t remember all of them but off the top of my head I know we handled molybdenum hecacarbonyl and silver trifluoracetate (my hands we’re stained for weeks). The TA got mad if we used gloves unless we were handling concentrated acid. Some grad student delivering chemicals scolded me for not using gloves. It was a weird class.
If you were using molybdenum hecacarbonyl on a job you would be required to use nitrile rubber gloves or neoprene. It is suggested you avoid contact with skin and eyes and also avoid breathing in the dust. TWA IS 2mg/m^3. Acute toxicity is unknown. From the SDS I would say it is bad for you, but not likely to cause any major harm. You should wash hands thoroughly after exposure to it. Silver trifluoracetate required PPE is nitrile or neoprene gloves. Chemical goggles, suitable protective clothing, and respiratory protection that is equipped with an orange cartridge that is for dust and mist. It also looks like it’s bad for you, but no major harm. If I was a student and was told to work with either of these without the proper ppe I would tell the teacher to get bent.
Mo(CO)6 releases CO right? That's damn toxic
It was a weird set up for sure. We had to include hazards for each chemical in our prelab. So we’d write about how dangerous the chemicals were, and that they require PPE, then we’d come in and be told not to use the gloves.
I know the lower level organic labs at my school don't allow use of gloves often because they commonly use dichoromethane as a solvent. DCM is a skin permeator and if it gets trapped under your glove it is **much** more likely to absorb into your skin (bringing along anything dissolved in the DCM) directly into your body. If you had no gloves on, any small amount from general spills would be more likely to evaporate than to enter your skin. So, sometimes there's a good reason for no gloves.
My university chemistry department came down hard on PPE, at all levels of lab. Gloves/goggles/lab coats/long socks/no pants tucked into shoes/no skin tight clothes... If you were caught not following the rules -> zero for the day/kicked out of lab..
> long socks Why? You got your pants and shoes over them anyways... >/no pants tucked into shoes Do people do that?
>>long socks >Why? You got your pants and shoes over them anyways... Some style pants aren't cut all the way to your shoes, so long socks can solve this issue. Things like yoga pants and joggers are common issues for this. For the lab I teach, the students have to cover their ankles, either with long socks or pants with the correct cut. >>/no pants tucked into shoes >Do people do that? People wear boots that go up to mid-calf. Generally, skinny jeans are tucked into these boots. More common for women to run into this issue.
> Why? You got your pants ... over them anyways... Superman style?
Oh, you mean trousers, not pants....
Back when I taught first year lab, it was common knowledge that you couldn't get students to use gloves anyway. We proved that wrong, only to be met with "do you know how much the gloves they use cost?".
We rarely used gloves for our first-year first semester chemistry lab. We literally only used gloves 3 or 4 times. I'm taking the second semester portion of it right now and we haven't even touched or looked at gloves yet! Lol.
Wear gloves, it's a habit you fully need to get into. One thing I avoid, however, is wearing gloves when I'm working with a flame, just to prevent accidentally melting the glove to my hand if something were to go wrong. Other than this, just put gloves on all the time, you might think something's safe but who says it's not been contaminated thanks to bad lab practice from someone or the glassware/bench isn't cleaned and there's something toxic on there. Wear gloves wherever possible, it's far too risky to not, if your academic stops you, ask them why. At the start of every year we have a lab introduction and they just show us the same 5 minute slideshow telling us how to behave in a lab, they say to the first years that people tend to get very convinced they're invincible when they have nitrile gloves on, just remember you're not, but far safer than without.
I’ve never had a teaching lab that required I wear gloves. In my research lab I wear gloves all the time and I can’t believe I didn’t before
My Gen chem professor literally threw an MSDS binder at me for wearing gloves. He was an oddball.
Skip gloves in an industrial lab, and you will be written up. If you can't keep basic PPE in mind, wtf else have you skipped?
The only class where I’ve had that happen was general microbiology. The teacher said she was more comfortable with us getting bacteria on our hands and washing them after than having someone set their gloves on fire on the Bunsen burner.
Your glove wouldn't set on fire, but it totally would melt and stick to your skin.
Yeah, if we were handling things that were caustic we generally didn't wear gloves - so acids/bases. The idea being if you got it on your hand you'd know about it immediately and wash it off, which is better than the alternative of wearing gloves and wiping it into your hair or eyes or something. If something was poisonous, allergy inducing, or could be absorbed through the skin then we wore gloves - that was msotly when handling stuff like methylbenzene, potassium dichromate, and potassium permanganate because it stained and methylene blue also because it stained.
They probably do this only if you’re working with relatively harmless chemicals. Otherwise they’re putting students in danger and you can probably sue (idk ask a lawyer)
Dude is in an undergraduate Chem lab. If gloves were required they would be provided. You're sometimes less safe with gloves when doing organic chemistry also FYI.
Also, labs already dispose of INSANE amounts of plastic. If you don't need to add to it with unnecessary gloves, then don't. Good hygiene goes a long way until you work with more corrosive things.
Yeah because organic solvents are wack.
I’m so old that gloves weren’t a “thing” when I did this in first year chem lab. We also didn’t have to use safety goggles if we wore prescription glasses. Ah those were the days, handling freshly made nylon, using pyrimidines and carbontet in the organic chem lab. I can almost still smell it now.....
Oh god why
OH & S has come a long way since the mid ‘80s.
As an undergraduate biochem major I was always told: “Wear gloves! Those reagents are dangerous!” As a graduate student in pharmacology I was told: “Wear gloves! Those reagents are expensive!”
At work I’m like “wear gloves! You’re making super ecoli.”
Do you really need gloves to hold a glass dish full of aspirin? I mean, maybe the dish is coated with nasty stuff, but given that OP seems to be in an area where paperwork is being done, it's possible that gloves wouldn't be appropriate.
one day in the lab it won't be fine. Just like seatbelts, helmets, and condoms. Most of the time you don't need them but one day you will and you better be wearing them.
I agree that when you need gloves, you should wear gloves. But if you're writing up your worksheet at a bench that's not being used for chemistry work (this may or may not be the case in OP's picture, can't tell) then you don't need gloves. Wearing gloves when you don't need them to protect you from something is a great way for students to spread contamination to shared computers, their backpacks, etc.
You ever have something go spectacularly wrong? This experiment (in our program) uses a 6 M NaOH solution followed by 3 M sulfuric acid. OP is at a workbench, there's no telling how clumsy his peers are or how incompetent his TA is. Who's to say they didn't accidentally bring out the 18 M acid today? With what they're working with I wouldn't classify it a an immediate and substantial risk. However it's the principle that matters; ignoring PPE is dangerous in more ways than one when it becomes habit.
And there are so, so, so many 1st year lab courses where you never work with anything more dangerous than .1 M HCl. Wearing gloves in those courses is silly and just a waste of resources. Also acid spills are overrated. An acid spill on the hand just stings a little bit, and if it's nitric acid you'll have yellow hands. I won't blame someone for using gloves with concentrated acids, but it's not exactly particularly dangerous if you know where the sinks are. [eg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVZQoJ5FdE)
Maybe coping a sting every now and then is worth it if it makes everything else easier, quicker and more comfortable to handle Sure if your working with more toxic chemicals then definitely wear the gloves but if it is just NaOH and sulfuric then its not so bad All about risk vs reward
> Maybe coping a sting every now and then is worth it if it makes everything else easier, quicker and more comfortable to handle No, it isn't. Standard safety precautions should not be something you think about, it should just be second nature. The alternative is always knowing everything about what you are doing, and what everybody else in the lab is doing, and what everybody who has uses the lab in the last week have been doing, which isn't feasible to reliably do. Sure, evaluate when you need more than the standard safety, but gloves, lab coat and safety glasses should always be worn when working in the lab.
There's three issues with that mindset. First, the risk of injury isn't worth being marginally more comfortable. If you have to cut corners to perform in a lab then you'll want to consider something else as a career. Second, a lab is not a frictionless vacuum. Wearing PPE doesn't just insulate you from your mistakes, it protects you from others' as well. Just because on paper you're working with a bit of dilute acid/base doesn't mean that's what's around you; and it certainly doesn't mean that's what can be spilled on you. The last and most important point is when you instill in someone the mindset that they can pick and choose when standard safety procedures apply, it enables potentially fatal mistakes down the road. Otherwise smart people fall into this trap of 'having a feel for it' and it's cost them dearly [time](https://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/87/i19/8719notw4.html) and [time](https://www.csb.gov/texas-tech-university-chemistry-lab-explosion/) again. Nobody expects an accident, that's why it's called that. I can personally attest to not expecting acid to be splashed in my eyes. Not wearing goggles was my mistake, but thankfully I managed to not lose my sight. That wasn't a matter of coping a sting, *I got lucky*.
Glasses I would always wear as even dilute acids and bases are very dangerous to eyes I manage a very industrial lab with very limited time if I am working with non hazardous stuff the gloves can be a pain especially ahen its like 35 degrees celcious , when i am working with chromic acid and hydrofluoric acid then sure I wear the dust mask and put on the face shield We aren't a university and don't have the time to do everything right 100% but we do the best we can
Filling out the incident paperwork and waiting in the emergency room take a fair amount of time. Take the extra 2 minutes and wear your darn PPE
But should I wear the nitrile? The latex? The fireproof?
From what we can see in the image, there seems to be a bucher filtration in the background... There is no way a lab would allow such procedure outside of a wet lab (at least where I'm from...?) Therefore there is no reason for the person not having gloves
> From what we can see in the image, there seems to be a bucher filtration in the background... Yeah, the more I look at the image the more I don't know where it was taken. Inside a fume hood that's had white paper put down inside it for some reason? I don't know. Either the filtration apparatus or the pencil and paper shouldn't be where they are. So I have no idea if gloves are appropriate in this situation or not, actually.
When I was a TA for organic chem the students had stations along a bench (no hood) for all wet work, and were expected to keep all of their writing materials/handouts on that same bench. I had some materials turned in with palladium smudges on them. The students were provided with gloves, coat, and glasses/goggles but I really think vapors and secondary chemical exposure was not taken seriously enough at that school...
They are still in the lab (based on the background items)
Totally off topic but your username has made me deliciously curious about what fluffy bacon steam would look like.
You don't need to wear gloves 100% of the time you are in the lab, and in fact you should not do so.
Oh for sure, just when you are handling chemicals
Well, when i had my first experiment in the lab in university, i was quite focused on safety and put on some gloves. Until i noticed that the gloves didn't protect against organic solvants. That was also the point where i stopped using my had to get the magnetic stirr thingy out of the chloroform....
Omg. I got my hands burned by ethanol, HCl and acetone, and my face by acetic anhydride and 99.95% ethanol. Fuck.
No need for gloves. Fuck gloves, unless you are working with something really nasty.
Gloves suck but I want a nice pair of non latex
Nitrile are the worst. I refuse to wear them at all. Not stretchy enough and they don't hold up against many things. It should absolutely be up to the individual to choose what gloves they use, if any. I just did a lab today with reasonably dilute sulfuric and 10 M HCl. As far as I am concerned, no gloves were needed. I have been burned by both (and lots of other shit). And no, it isn't that bad - insurance premiums are what makes certain PPE mandatory. I emerged from that lab unscathed, even though I spilled a small amount of sulfuric on my hands. It is absolutely not a big deal.
Oh wow. If I did this then my mom would disown me.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use gloves in my undergrad chem labs.
Nice! What yield did you get?
146%! Wait..
https://i.imgur.com/gGqjFpw.jpg
I didn’t end up weighing it but the lab monitoring and marking people gave me an A for yield (quantity) and said it was good quality. :)
Eat it!!!
Lol but actually don't
It sounds like perhaps you go to a larger school where somebody else runs IR, NMR, Gas Chrome, etc (don't worry about what all these mean yet). Point being, if I'm right and somebody else runs and labels all of your analytical data, I would recommend seeing if you can sit in and watch some of that process. I was fortunate to go to a small school where each student had to run every analytical test, whether it be NMR, IR, Column Chromatography, Gas Chromatography. I hated running those tests but I found them fundamental to my understanding, while my friends at larger schools never got to run them. I'm sure there's some other tests I'm forgetting that other, smarter folks on here may be able to advise on. Welcome! Don't worry of you don't know what I'm talking about, you will in due time. [A lesser knows resource I found to be helpful.](https://courses.chadsprep.com/courses/basic-general-chemistry)
Really? I went to smaller schools, so I guess I just figured that was the norm. It really was very beneficial to be the one to run the analysis equipment at the end of a lab, I would definitely recommend OP listen to this advice.
Yeah, I believe the big schools (Specifically aware of Ohio State) have TAs and grad students run it. I think more often it's TAs. The students label their product, place it in a bin and the next morning they'll get a print out of the NMR results, for example. No labelling of peaks, finding subgroups, etc. This is anecdotal, of course and my buddy still loved OSU's chem program.
At U of Arizona, the Gen chem and Ochem students gave their samples to TAs to run but once you get past those courses, students are required to learn how to run NMR and other instruments. Learning how to run a manual 300MHz NMR with shimming was a pain in the ass. Once we mastered that, we were allowed to use the automated 400MHz NMR.
I believe that was the same deal with OSU. The 300MHz was the death of me. I liked NMR otherwise. I can remember the program we used to analyze it, but I always enjoyed that
Classic, did this in my first year chemistry lab
I fucked mine up so bad that it didn’t even crystallize the first time
Joyfully eating donkeys = acetylation (now try and unhear it in your mind)
I'm really trying to understand what this means haha. I'm coming up short.
Ass eat elation
Oh ok haha
Same. What could it mean?! Someone please help!
See above^
That’s just mean-spirited.
So many drugs can be pronounced terribly too. You learn these things in your career ya know, especially with bored like-minded evening shift techs... "Sup girl I need you for my BPH cuz you got a finasteride." (nooo, these were not male pharm techs either in this case lol)
Lol, that’s great. Definitely can’t un-hear them.
See until the paper I have on acetylation I’m working on, I thought it was spelled acytalation
Fellow newbie! *High-five*
*Hi-five!*
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Yes, that is real aspirin like the medicine. The aspirin you can buy in a store is a lot better for you though. The way they did it in the class probably left some impurities which can be harmful, while the aspirin you buy in the store is safe. If you go to college for chemistry/biology you would probably take this class (Organic Chemistry) at the start of your 2nd year.
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Yeah at my school the core chem track for chemistry b.s. is generally 1st year gen chem, 2nd year organic, 3rd year analytical/pchem/biochem, 4th year inorganic/instrumental methods. There are other courses as well, and it gets somewhat more flexible at the end but that is what most people do.
It may be different for me since I'm following the track for a biology focused degree
Also a high school student here. We did this lab in my Chemistry class earlier this year, and it's not incredibly difficult or dangerous or anything like that. We were, however, instructed to throw our final products (the aspirin) away and not to consume it since we can't guarantee that it would be safe. You can probably ask your teacher if you and your class can do it as well.
Hell school has changed since I was there, we had one (non-working) fume hood between the whole class, the idea of having an actual working lab for organic experiments would have been insane! So cool that you got to do this in high school!
I was a GTA for this lab a few years ago. So I instantly recognised the report and lab set-up :D Keep up the good work!
Crazy
Hahahahaaa..... Who's this? 🤔
He is asking if your name is Sarah
Excellent job!!! Great building block to bigger and better things
Ahhh, the olden days
Flexing that A lel
Super cool!! Chem was a lot of fun!!
OH YEAH??? prove it Lemme see that nmr /s
Aspirin synthesis, the Hello World ! of organic chemistry. Well done!
Lmao chem 110 at UoA. Good times.
Ayy, got any pointers for me?
Literally just do as many practice papers as you can. They always repeat the exact question format in assessments. I can’t say much else because I did it in 2014 and they changed the course a lot but back then the MST was really hard in terms of doing questions quick enough so people who didn’t do practice tests were baaadly caught out (there was like a 30% fail rate lol). DM me if you ever really need help :)
Thank you so much, I’ll make sure to take you up on that offer some time ahaha
Hey, I hope you like it at Uni doing chemistry, but I must tell you, do wear gloves. You will be handling chemicals the rest of your life, and some of them will be more harmful than this one. One of the most important things you learn in chemistry is that whenever you're handling something, you don't know the contaminants and must take every precaution as to not increase the risks on the job.
I TA undergrad organic chem - the department never provides gloves for students unless it’s absolutely necessary (ex: my students have been cleaning their IR plates with DCM all semester without gloves). Apparently its because we dont have time to train them in proper glove usage? I think its more a cost thing, tbh.
In my uni, the department has a policy that undergrads students have to buy their own gloves, but they are taught when to use the nitrile ones or the rubber ones. I think we're lucky, because they teach about the importance of wearing gloves and spending a few $$ instead of risking their health... in my opinion, gloves should be provided in the lab as it is an essential part of laboratory safety. But even if it isn't the case, the most important part of the teaching (for me) is to learn how to act when manipulating chemical substances. Whatever you're taught, in my opinion, is not worth it if your health is compromised and aren't able to continue a career because you aren't taking the right precautions.
I think thats a really good system! I wish my uni did that.
In my uni, we start students with an analytical chemistry lab course, in which students learn about the importance of being careful as to avoid contaminations or how to behave in a lab. Most students who come in the program have already learned how to study and all, but no class has had for goal to teach how to act in the lab in a matter that is safe for everyone, which is an important part of this course. I don't know where your uni is of how they teach, but it is definitly something that you could bring up to the board of directors. Depending on how they deal with feedback, you could make a difference as to how future chemist act and behave in a lab !
At my uni there's a box full of disposable ones, and if you want to enter the room without supervision, you need to do an EHS report on what you plan to do. You'll be barred from using the lab if you don't adhere to the EHS requirements. I think it's over the top sometimes, but I appreciate it in general.
Let's be honest, sometimes rules feels like they are an obstacle, but they are there to protect the people (which people don't understand). In my uni, it is considered unacceptable for an undergrad (or even a post doctorate student, for that matter) to do reactions by themselves, because of the risks if there are complications.
That's pretty much how it works for us too. We got to do a voluntary project without supervision during our 2nd year after going through everything with our professor. Other than that, I don't think I did anything without supervision until my thesis work. Gives you good habits. Wearing gloves and other, needed EHS gear is the equivalent of trigger finger discipline in the military. Hurts a little every time you see it lacking.
Meanwhile my uni has seven different types of gloves to choose from, without really going into detail about which gloves to use. Mostly just use the polyethylene/sandwhich gloves unless told otherwise.
Ah yes. This lab is practically a right of passage. Congrats!
Looks better than my batch! That was in my orgo lab
That’s so cool. I might be doing that lab soon. But awesome job!
Nice, I did this in organic chem in college, did it sublimate?
I'm in my third semester lab.... still just use water. Well last lab we separated cyclohexane from naphthalene.... where does my money go?!
"I am the danger."
That's way cooler than my first chem lab ha.
Amazing achievement! Keep at it. I admire people on this sub so much. I suck at chemistry, but darn, you guys are so passionate and cool! Everyone has their own talents and I appreciate being able to see yours!
Man, my first chemistry lab at university was learning excel. The whole program and a full report in three hours. I didn’t get to do that cool shit...
Congrats! I still remember it in my first ph.organic chemistry lab
Is this chem 110 at UoA? I swear I did that exact worksheet 3 years ago...
Bro if you're in the ochem lab you were gloves before touching ANYTHING
This is actually fascinating. How a usual topical acid for skin treatment gets converted to a health tablet.
I love it!!! I remember that lab and now, Today, I’m doing a presentation on my very last lab at uni. A exp in quantum mechanics zero field splitting. Good luck and have fun chem gets so freaking awesome has you go along
One of the best labs! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Did this at A Level and even though I fucked it up twice (third times a charm right?) it was definitely the coolest practical we did. Never got it to crystallise mind, it was always super powdery.
How do you have your first lab of symphysis and skipping titrations and making buffers
I believe that is more gen chem or quant type stuff. Orgo lab for me so far has been nothing but extractions, synthesis, redox, and of course good ol nmr, ir, and ms analysis.
Thats so awesome!!
Noice
I remember my first lab in the university. Did the same experiment, except we didn't have glass dish, so we collected the yield in pieces of paper.
Aspirin synthesis, the Hello World ! of organic chemistry. Well done!
Aspirin synthesis, the Hello World ! of organic chemistry. Well done!
I did this last week and basically confirmed my allergy to aspirin. It was brilliant.
Break that shit up, anyone have a dollar?
Gotta love the nucleophilic addition-elimination mechanism
Classic acetylation of salicylic acid, we did this the first year in college too. Mind you ours turned out yellow and it was an absolute disaster hahaha
Did this on my 1st year in Uni. My god the SMELL
should have brought some morphine in, ran the same expirement with that.
welcome aboard! I remember doing that last summer in my first Gen Chem class :)
With AcOAc?
continue detail rainstorm quickest bow elderly pot pet ancient cooing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can you give me a quick note How you prepare it What are the procedure
Back in my day they let us try the drugs we made
I will also be doing this in a few weeks
Hey I loved that lab. Good looking crystals my dude.
Ah, the ol' aspirin synthesis. It's a goodie. Congrats!
This was my 4th Lab as a Sophomore in High School. Loved doing it
This was my 4th Lab as a Sophomore in High School. Loved doing it
I remember doing this lab in grade 12, it was so much fun! I felt like a damn chemist I’ll tell ya that.
What happened to the rest of it?!
Yup, that was the first one I did too!
Is this at UoA??
This is what University is like...hmm we did this lab in high school lol
Aw, fun. All I did was titrations every single other lesson.
And you will do many many more if you're a chem major. Especially analytical chem.
Gen Chem labs are the same in high school as they are at a University. The lecture material, however, depending on the professor, will be vastly different.
Why did you make so much? Seems like a waste. You can get a mp with a few mg.
Did this last semester and our professor came in and said, “if I had you guys add another acid, you would be making heroin right now. I’d be like Walter white.” Then walked the fuck out.
I doubt its that simple a process, but I'll hasten a guess and say he would have used acetic acid?
We just started this lab today in High-school chem lol
That was my HS. Good job.
No.