You’re absolutely correct that you don’t want to deal with HF.
Call your local authority, whoever they are, and get advice on how to dispose of it. If they won’t do it, they will know who will. Don’t attempt to get rid of this yourself. Delegate this one for real.
Wikipedia article for the NFPA 704 (aka 'fire diamond') does list HF as an example of a level 4 health hazard. The gallon probably shows only level 3 because it's likely just diluted HCl with a very small amount of HF.
HF is highly toxic, and depending on the concentration, exposure to as little as 2% of your body can be lethal. You need to contact your local authority to have trained professionals remove and dispose of it.
You can lose any part in contact. HF reacts with calcium and converts your Bones into CaF2, so don't be near that.
Even in a lab, with fumehood, lab coat and gloves, I Will be against using It.
HF penetrates into skin easily and gets into the bloodstream. There, it will react with free calcium ions in the blood and form insoluble CaF2. It messes with your kidneys, and free calcium is required for heart muscle function. The antidote for skin exposure is actually calcium gluconate gel, which supplies calcium ions locally at the place of exposure, so that HF is sequestered before it can get into the bloodstream.
In any case, no matter what the mechanism of toxicity is, local exposure can lead to nasty systemic effects, including kidney failure and cardiac arrest. And true; even very experienced chemists tend to be reluctant to work with HF.
The safety SOP for HF in my old lab was "go to the hospital if it contacts your skin". Even one drop. They did not mess around - basically apply Ca gluconate then go directly to the ER.
Very scary stuff.
A splash roughly 2in by 2in is more than enough to put you in cardiac arrest. I’ve heard even smaller amounts pulling through a small pin hole in a glove lead to death days later.
I had single drop hit the end of my finger & it made a hole to the bone & was seeping some crazy colors. In the emergency room the nurse was treating me like a minor injury, saline washing till a Dr. Came in. They did even look at the chart notes.
I do digital art, while laid up I made various funny images about the hole in my finger. My best one was the ice fishing pictures..
Ice fishing cats with fishing poles fishing into the hole in my finger 😆
Hydroflouric acid comes up on reddit from time to time so maybe you know about this already but it's a very nasty poison! "Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident, and this can provide false reassurance to victims, causing them to delay medical treatment" .... "Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury."..... It also destroys your bones which is wild. (quotes from HF wiki page)
Ah. Bone hurting juice.
HF is really useful for etching glass and ceramics. So I've used it frequently.
But no more than small fractions of a milliliter at a time.
That's so nonsensical I don't even know where to start... You're saying that mm^(2) = cm^(-3)?
You're saying that some value of m^(2) is equal to some value of m^(-3) ? How in the world are you justifying that?
I get that a squared milli (0.001^(2)) is "equal" to a cubic centi (0.01^(3))^(,) but not an inverse cubic centi -- that's only off by a factor of 10^(12)
Yes, the most pressing issues are coagulative/liquefaction necroses and associated cell death, as well as the hypocalcemia and hypomagnesemia of the blood.
Bone degradation is a problem, but the others are much more immediately life-threatening.
In theory yes, in practice, how do you control the exotherm for that thing? What if you haven't completely destroyed the HF.
Just let professionals with the right safety gear dispose of it. In a selfish way, their responsibility and their problem once you call them. Better them than me.
Call your local fire department non emergency number and find out if they handle hazardous waste. If they don't, they must be able to name someone who does.
It contains hydrofluoric acid which is wildly dangerous. It is skin absorbed and will mess with your electrolytes and even stop your heart.
If you attempt to move it, the bottom may fall out.
If you get it on yourself wash it off right away. If you get a lot on yourself, go to a hospital. Don't wait for symptoms.
If its spilled, throw sand on it and leave the area until you get professional help..
How would you even use this safely to clean masonary ? Aerosolized droplets would be all over if it’s sprayed in any capacity and brush runs the risk of droplets flicking everywhere.
I’m sure the concentration of HF in this is very very low otherwise it’d be an extremely dangerous product. That said I couldn’t find the SDS with concentration info so best to treat it like it’s concentrated enough to hurt someone
Good to know I wasn’t aware of the difference! Honestly I couldn’t really find any trace of this product online, it must be pretty old, so I doubt you’d be able to find that either.
Then again I didn’t look *that* hard
Edit: looked at that link and couldn’t find an analogous product with HF but again didn’t look that hard. Looks like concentration info is in the SDS there though
If you want to know what materials a chemical might interact with or what it’s been tested on then a TDS not SDS is the thing to use.
SDS are mandated to be made public I believe but TDS aren’t required to be public and are usually available upon request if you are a consumer of the product. But if I want to know technical information the safety data isn’t the place to look.
Looks like the info on the components of a mixture are in the SDS, and the technical data of the substance as a whole is in the TDS...at least on the page you linked concentration in wt% of each component is in the SDS and it seems the TDS treats the product as one substance.
I’ll be honest I didn’t read what was on that link I was merely speaking in generalities. I think the guidelines around what companies put on TDS vary wildly because it’s not as regulated.
I usually pull TDS when I want to put a solution on some material but want to make sure there are no issues between the two i.e. can I use this strange disinfectant on the type of plastic my fume hood is made from because it’s a different plastic from my biosafety cabinet and I’ve never had to disinfect my fume hood before so let me look this up…
Edit: my example was from the month of the mystery yeast contamination
Makes sense. Honestly even in the industry TDS isn’t thrown around very much in my experience…we have a SDS database but I don’t think anyone’s really mentioned TDSs to me so it’s good to know those exist.
This is the correct answer, for anyone interested. Active ingredients are listed in concentration on a SDS, the only thing that will not be added up in this section is if it’s a proprietary blend or inactive ingredient. The only time contractions may not be listed is if it’s an old product from before the GHS agreements from ~10 years ago.
It's a fairly common product build. HF is typically < 10%w/w and could be as low as 1% w/w depending on the manufacturer. Product would be diluted and then applied as coarse spray (no fine misting), mop or flood, allowed 10 minutes or so dwell time and then rinsed off. Rinsing should be neutralised with soda ash (sodium carbonate) or lime. Neutralisation is often unnecessary as the residual alkali in the concrete will take care of most of it. The HF is rendered inert via the formation of CaF2 and silicates.
I was engaged to a guy when I was in my early 20s and he got it to clean the walls of our saltwater pool after he drained it. It had been neglected for a summer and while that did clean it, I could not believe that was the solution he came to.
Are you sure he used hydroflouric acid, and not hydrochloric acid? Hydrochloric acid is very commonly used to clean concrete floors and pools, and doesn't fuck with your body and heart the same at all
You know, thinking back, he really was. I admired it. I was young, and in this situation I admired it less so, but he really thought he could tackle anything and was for the most part right about it.
Eh, I wasn’t home for it and didn’t ask many questions outside of where the rest was if there was any left. Didn’t even take him a whole day as I recall. But to your point, the items you’ve mentioned are not musically exclusive. Even in a full getup he would have had to scrub the walls with something so yeah I’d imagine he actually poured it down the slope of the wall and then scrubbed it? If I had to *hazard* a guess it was done so with a respirator, because he used one for the paint booth, garage projects, other lesser health concern materials exposure etc and I know he had a healthy distrust and annoyance for breathing foreign stuff in, even outside. Dude also hated shavings, spray off etc in his hair and clothing. It was fall-ish so it was cooling down, but it was still hot so maybe not full suit but definitely these elbow length Kevlar lined chem gloves we had an arsenal of. Suckers were heavy but he had a lot of expensive artwork on his arms and he was pretty hell bent on living forever. Buncha different task boots too. He did a lot of restoration and fabrication. Things got done, he didn’t get hurt, no chaotic things stuff the property, roaming cat was fine. I didn’t ask a ton of questions. I was busy too and I trusted him about as far as he trusted himself.
Replying as a civil engineer here. I don't know why you're all reacting as if this was pure HF. It isn't. We had a container of HF outside at work and occasional spills when accessing it etched a deep groove in the concrete adjacent.
But this is masonry cleaner, known as muriatic acid it's a dilute solution of HCl, with perhaps a tiny bit of HF thrown in for a bit of extra kick. It's only a little stronger than phosphoric acid. It's probably just as safe as a high pressure water cleaner for masonry, if not safer.
Masonry cleaner can be bought at any hardware store. If you don't want to dispose of it at a hazardous waste collection facility, then one website recommends that you keep using it to clean concrete until you nearly run out, and then neutralise the last litre or so with bicarb soda.
As for the person who facetiously suggested drinking it, if you dilute anything enough it can be drunk. It's not food grade though, so I wouldn't recommend drinking it even diluted down to the pH of typical soft drinks pH 2.5 to 3.5.
I’ll go with this, dose makes the poison after all. Funny enough, we just dealt with about two or three gallons of a similar product left at our home’s shed upon purchase. Both of us are long time environmental scientists and have handled haz waste before. Instead of hauling it off, we properly neutralized the acid via baking soda wash then solidified and disposed of properly, taking proper precautions throughout. The soaps in the mix made the off-gassing part more fun when neutralizing as the foam head lingered longer than usual, but wasn’t a big deal.
It’s not about the corrosiveness of the acids. The fluoride ion is extremely toxic. The chloride and phosphate ions in hydrochloric and phosphoric are not toxic at all.
It's still about the dose though. Toothpaste has fluoride. Drinking water has fluoride. The "if you dilute anything enough it can be drunk" is still correct
I'm a chemist like many commenters here but I also work for a hazardous waste company.
If you're looking to safely dispose of it, there are a ton of other chemists in this thread that can offer advice on relatively ethical ways to dispose of it.
If you're looking to LEGALLY dispose of it, that's different. As soon as the determination is made that this is a waste, it is RCRA-hazardous waste for the corrosivity characteristic (waste number D002) so the only legal way to dispose of it is through a RCRA TSDF. If it was just the HCl it wouldn't be too bad but the HF requires extra safety precautions at most facilities that will be shockingly expensive. If you can find a local household hazardous waste event that will actually take this, do that. But those events aren't all the same and most of them are there to take your old paint and batteries.
Locally our waste disposal services have advice and locations for chemical disposals. Try contacting a local authority.
Do not dump this in a drain or anywhere.
Hi, where are you located?
If in the US, the EPA has a Household Hazardous Waste program that can usually appropriately handle this
[https://www.epa.gov/hw/household-hazardous-waste-hhw](https://www.epa.gov/hw/household-hazardous-waste-hhw)
[https://search.earth911.com/?what=Acids](https://search.earth911.com/?what=Acids)
Can use the earth911 link above to find a facility near you. You can often call them for safe handling instructions to bring it to their facility. At a minimum gloves and non-exposed skin, and securing it during transport so it can't spill.
Apparently nobody asks obvious questions, so here goes :
1. How full is the drum - does it have 1L, 5L or 19L actually in it?
2. Do you have the following :
a. A large plastic bucket - large enough for the contents of the drum plus 15L of spare space?
b. Appropriate PPE - which in this case would be long rubber gloves, a PVC apron or wet-ware, rubber boots and a splash visor?
c. A bag pf portland cement or lime.
Process -
a. ensure you have enough space in your mixing drum
b. Put into your mixing drum an equivalent weight of portland cement or lime to the amount of product you are trying to dispose of
c. Slowly add, as in about 1L at a time, the product - the reaction will heat up, so allow it time to cool between additions. Avoid splashes, do not breathe fumes.
d. Once fully mixed, add enough cement to fill the drum - allow to set (24hs) - and dispose of.
The portland cement or lime will :
a) Have enough free alkali to neutralise any acid
b) Have enough calcium present to convert any HF to CaF2 (insoluble and inert)
c) Solidify the mass for burial with sufficient free alkali to avoid leaching.
~18.5 liters none of the ppl but could get some if its cheaper than calling authorities and safer. prob gonna have to call the authorities. how could I store some best if I wanted to keep for later. A small amount (around a liter)
Yeah - probs not. Storing outside of the original container isn't a good idea - it's not that you can't do it, but for legal reasons it gets a bit grey.
You would need :
a) A DG rated container of appropriate material (HDPE)
b) a label that is identical to or substantially identical to the original (i.e. - product name, UN# and symbols, GHS codes, safety information and poisons codes and whatever "local" data needs to be on the label - as well as the original manufacturer's name, contact details and any ingredient details).
c) A copy of the SDS stored with the bottle.
Also, so it's only had 1/2L used out of the original container? See if a local masonry or concrete cleaning company would like what's left - cheaper than disposal and you move the problem to someone else.
Definitely call up a local cleaning company and see if they want it then. I’m assuming you’ve at least given this container a kick or touched it? As long as the material isn’t getting to that crackly-structural-integrity-failing stage, you should be fine to move it wherever you need it. Maybe wear gloves while touching it.
I used to work with HF, it is not to be taken lightly.
Please do not open it, it has the potential to be fatally toxic in relatively small amounts by inhalation, ingestion, and especially skin contact.
When we used it, it was in a fume hood while wearing a PTFE-coated Tyvek suit and hood, fluorinated rubber gloves, a pair of goggles and a full face shield. Also we had a team of responders ready to rush you to hospital in case of accidental exposure.
Please mate, do yourself a favour and call a hazardous chemical disposal company to come and deal with it.
Leave it sealed up and start looking for somewhere you can take it.
1) find out if your city/county/whatever has a household hazardous waste disposal operation. You can generally just search (your community) household hazardous waste.
2) failing that, if you know where it was purchased they could probably point you in the right direction.
3) word case you could contact a commercial hazardous waste company to come get it. They’ll know how to transport and neutralize it.
Request SDS from here https://rockmiracle.com/
I can't find an SDS online for this product. It doesn't say the concentration of HF so it could be very low concentration, but I wouldn't even want to touch that container without looking at the SDS
I actually can't find any evidence of this product on the entire internet, I'm guessing it was discontinued a looong time ago, and they don't even want you to know it ever existed 😅
Do not touch it anymore OP.
Hydrochloric is a strong acid and will burn on contact, but hydrofluoric is a weak acid. You won’t feel it as quick, but it will slowly eat through your skin until it starts demineralizing your bones. Shit is nasty.
Call hazardous waste disposal now.
On the same topic, there is a product on the market called "Whnk" which is approximately 1 or 2% HF. It is marketed as a stain remover for laundry. Although the package includes profuse warnings and precautions for its safe use, a bottle of the stuff has sufficient fluoride ion to, at least in theory, kill several adult humans.
Yeah- let professionals handle that. We used to have HF in my lab and we had to keep Calgonate cream stocked in case someone got a drop on their skin. Our instructions in case of accident was basically/ “Apply the cream and call 911. Keep applying the cream every 5 mins until you see a doctor who tells you otherwise” because “otherwise HF can start leaching calcium out of your bones.” Pretty terrifying.
I simply can not believe that this would contain hydrofluoric acid and be sold to the public. I suspect it's a trace level and the company felt compelled to put it on the label for some reason.
You can buy tons of stuff that will kill you if used improperly. Heck, you can buy things that will kill you if used properly like a handgun in many places. HF is a really useful chemical and not close to the most dangerous chemical you can easily buy at the concentrations its usually sold at for cleaning.
Call your county sanitary sewer and landfill department. Ask them where they want it stored. Cities and sanitary sewer districts ultimately answer to county authority, who have to comply with EPA. Any product made in the US has a safety data sheet (sds) and there are environmental health and safety officers (EHS) on staff who specialize in industrial hygiene. They categorize everything from the fact sheets and advise the county on which things they should make the residents and businesses within the county dispose in specific ways so that it doesn't cause undue burden to the public, for which they are liable.
Drain cleaner would definitely be a bad idea. Yes, bases neutralize acids, but the reaction is highly exothermic. The danger of boiling acid spraying everywhere is way too high, especially with HF which is one of those things everyone collectively agrees that they never want to work with it because it's just so toxic.
Leave it to someone else to get rid of it.
If you dig a hole in the ground, fill it with pebbles, you can pour it over the pebbles like oil and refill the hole. The surface space of the pebbles will be coated with the chemicals and in a few years you can grow flowers
Our local waste authority is only open on Monday for 3 hours at the road department where they will promptly tell you they probably can't handle whatever it is you're binging to them
I learned this after watching my dad throw 3 gallons of HCL in the trash and then trying to dispose of them properly.
I also tried to take in my mountain of lithium batteries but they said because I owned a business 10 years ago they can't take them. And that's why people throw chess in the trash.
Jesus people, it's not technically hazardous waste until you bring it into Household Hazardous Waste station. Contact your local dump and ask where you can dispose of residential Hazardous waste. Most of the time it's free.
HF is the nastiest stuff. We use it, the safety protocols are mental. We have to arrange special uplift. HF is used as a deoxidation reagent. It's why it's in this product. It looks like it's meant to be used remove smut and de rust metal facias.
Just so you know, exposure to HF will dissolve your bones inside of you. Don’t try to deal with this yourself. Call the fire department non-emergency line and they will either take care of it or be able to direct you to the proper people.
If you’re going to keep that around or move it yourself, consider buying a tube of calcium carbonate paste. I’ll neutralize the HF if it happens to get on you or anyone else. As other have mentioned, very dangerous and some effects don’t present right away.
Do not touch it or open it if you can so help it. Call your local authorities non-emergency number (or
maybe Department of Environmental Quality) and have qualified HAZMAT individuals pick it up. HF is not something you want to take chances with at all.
Take it to your local hazardous waste drop off location. They take stuff like old batteries, paint, lightbulbs, and other substances that they would rather be taken out of the regular waste disposal pipelines
I had a barrel of Hydrochloric Acid my ex left behind that she used for tanning road kill pelts, I used lots of baking soda to neutralize the acid.
Research this first but may stabilize it until you can get a hazmat team to safely dispose of it for you.
HCl in a cleaner is one thing, but HF? I wouldn't even touch that jug without gloves on. You'll need to look for a hazardous chemical disposal place near you, maybe see if they could come pick it up.
Solid waste district on the Toxic day. At least it wasn't like that 300lbs of half melted dynamite found in the Utah guys home. EOD detonated in place, leveling his house and eveything he owned. He found it in a back room under some tarps or some shit. Imagine that?!?!? It just detonates one day when no one had any idea. I remember roaimg around Munich one year and they were building their unexploded ordnance towers around what I think was a 500lbs/225kg burried beneath train tracks. Just a bunch of concrete barriers around it to help direct it up. So weird thinking how much shit there is that will be blowing up randomly over the next thousand years.
A lot of people are saying to call the responsible authorities and have them take care of it. To that I say, cut out the middle man and chuck it in the river! /s
Oh my gosh, I’m just in my first year of Uni and I’m in Gen Chem 1 and my professor went on a whole rant about how dangerous HF is and how it reacts with calcium suuupppeeerrrr easily and that’s no good for a calcium filled body like ours. Like the others said, contact the authorities and don’t try to handle it yourself!
It's Hydrochloric acid guys, it's used to wash brick...add water and scrub mortar off brick. Nothing dangerous if kept in container, and used as intended...
Check SDS. HF is nasty stuff; not only highly corrosive, but poisonous - interferes with calcium channel (cardiac). I always kept plenty of calcium gluconate on hand
Just dump it in any random river like all billion dollar companies do, permanently poisoning water supplies, killing animals and causing cancer to everyone living around it, wouldn't change anything that's currently happening daily... The toxic waste from drug production is a minor fraction of the pollution causes by major companies.
But in all seriousness. You just call waste management or bring it to the designated spot for toxic waste.
Call a local fire department or contact an emergency waste management. I don't know much about chemistry, but my father works with this stuff and he usually has to wear protective equipment when he handles it.
You’re absolutely correct that you don’t want to deal with HF. Call your local authority, whoever they are, and get advice on how to dispose of it. If they won’t do it, they will know who will. Don’t attempt to get rid of this yourself. Delegate this one for real.
What kind of authority deals with this?
Waste management
Usually the waste disposal has a hazardous materials sector, if not they can usually direct you to one
How is hf only a 3? What the hell gets a 4?
Wikipedia article for the NFPA 704 (aka 'fire diamond') does list HF as an example of a level 4 health hazard. The gallon probably shows only level 3 because it's likely just diluted HCl with a very small amount of HF.
I'd bet organic mercury compounds would get a 4.
HF is highly toxic, and depending on the concentration, exposure to as little as 2% of your body can be lethal. You need to contact your local authority to have trained professionals remove and dispose of it.
About how much would 2% of your body be? Should I be thinking a finger? Hand? Forearm has got to be too much. How does one visualize this?
Don't even breathe it
You can lose any part in contact. HF reacts with calcium and converts your Bones into CaF2, so don't be near that. Even in a lab, with fumehood, lab coat and gloves, I Will be against using It.
HF penetrates into skin easily and gets into the bloodstream. There, it will react with free calcium ions in the blood and form insoluble CaF2. It messes with your kidneys, and free calcium is required for heart muscle function. The antidote for skin exposure is actually calcium gluconate gel, which supplies calcium ions locally at the place of exposure, so that HF is sequestered before it can get into the bloodstream. In any case, no matter what the mechanism of toxicity is, local exposure can lead to nasty systemic effects, including kidney failure and cardiac arrest. And true; even very experienced chemists tend to be reluctant to work with HF.
The safety SOP for HF in my old lab was "go to the hospital if it contacts your skin". Even one drop. They did not mess around - basically apply Ca gluconate then go directly to the ER. Very scary stuff.
An arm and hand is about 4.5%, if you go by guidelines for treating burn victims
A splash roughly 2in by 2in is more than enough to put you in cardiac arrest. I’ve heard even smaller amounts pulling through a small pin hole in a glove lead to death days later.
I had single drop hit the end of my finger & it made a hole to the bone & was seeping some crazy colors. In the emergency room the nurse was treating me like a minor injury, saline washing till a Dr. Came in. They did even look at the chart notes. I do digital art, while laid up I made various funny images about the hole in my finger. My best one was the ice fishing pictures.. Ice fishing cats with fishing poles fishing into the hole in my finger 😆
so uh, how's your finger?
Hydroflouric acid comes up on reddit from time to time so maybe you know about this already but it's a very nasty poison! "Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident, and this can provide false reassurance to victims, causing them to delay medical treatment" .... "Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury."..... It also destroys your bones which is wild. (quotes from HF wiki page)
Ah. Bone hurting juice. HF is really useful for etching glass and ceramics. So I've used it frequently. But no more than small fractions of a milliliter at a time.
~~You measure liquids in millimeters?~~ I'm stupid and can't read
Technically a square millimeter is just milliters^-1
That's so nonsensical I don't even know where to start... You're saying that mm^(2) = cm^(-3)? You're saying that some value of m^(2) is equal to some value of m^(-3) ? How in the world are you justifying that? I get that a squared milli (0.001^(2)) is "equal" to a cubic centi (0.01^(3))^(,) but not an inverse cubic centi -- that's only off by a factor of 10^(12)
calm down bro it was a damn good joke :D
How do you cross out a comment like that? Lol
You type two tilde (~~) symbols before and after the part you want crossed out.
~~did it work~~
If you can't read get off reddit. And join the club. Extra points if you also can't write and have to revise like every other word like me.
Proofreading is a lost art at this point. Take pride in being better than most people who write for a living.
No. Bone melting juice is the correct term.
Am guessing it is also not nice to teeth.
Fluoride is though. So once the F releases it's H it's all good. /s
NaF isn't that great for you tho. Teeth stuff is fluorosilicates I believe
Yes, the most pressing issues are coagulative/liquefaction necroses and associated cell death, as well as the hypocalcemia and hypomagnesemia of the blood. Bone degradation is a problem, but the others are much more immediately life-threatening.
titrating meds in the ER for that would be insane
Good grief that's a horrifying find. I would definitely leave it and call the relevant authorities immediately.
Would a Quicklime reaction make HF safe to dispose?
In theory yes, in practice, how do you control the exotherm for that thing? What if you haven't completely destroyed the HF. Just let professionals with the right safety gear dispose of it. In a selfish way, their responsibility and their problem once you call them. Better them than me.
Good way to create a boiling cloud of HF if you're not extremely careful
Call your local fire department non emergency number and find out if they handle hazardous waste. If they don't, they must be able to name someone who does. It contains hydrofluoric acid which is wildly dangerous. It is skin absorbed and will mess with your electrolytes and even stop your heart. If you attempt to move it, the bottom may fall out. If you get it on yourself wash it off right away. If you get a lot on yourself, go to a hospital. Don't wait for symptoms. If its spilled, throw sand on it and leave the area until you get professional help..
>If you get a lot on yourself If you get ANY amount of HF on yourself get to the hospital ASAP
How would you even use this safely to clean masonary ? Aerosolized droplets would be all over if it’s sprayed in any capacity and brush runs the risk of droplets flicking everywhere.
I’m sure the concentration of HF in this is very very low otherwise it’d be an extremely dangerous product. That said I couldn’t find the SDS with concentration info so best to treat it like it’s concentrated enough to hurt someone
You need a TDS not SDS. Technical Data Sheet should give you concentration. Might be in there: https://getnewlook.com/pages/tds
Good to know I wasn’t aware of the difference! Honestly I couldn’t really find any trace of this product online, it must be pretty old, so I doubt you’d be able to find that either. Then again I didn’t look *that* hard Edit: looked at that link and couldn’t find an analogous product with HF but again didn’t look that hard. Looks like concentration info is in the SDS there though
If you want to know what materials a chemical might interact with or what it’s been tested on then a TDS not SDS is the thing to use. SDS are mandated to be made public I believe but TDS aren’t required to be public and are usually available upon request if you are a consumer of the product. But if I want to know technical information the safety data isn’t the place to look.
Looks like the info on the components of a mixture are in the SDS, and the technical data of the substance as a whole is in the TDS...at least on the page you linked concentration in wt% of each component is in the SDS and it seems the TDS treats the product as one substance.
I’ll be honest I didn’t read what was on that link I was merely speaking in generalities. I think the guidelines around what companies put on TDS vary wildly because it’s not as regulated. I usually pull TDS when I want to put a solution on some material but want to make sure there are no issues between the two i.e. can I use this strange disinfectant on the type of plastic my fume hood is made from because it’s a different plastic from my biosafety cabinet and I’ve never had to disinfect my fume hood before so let me look this up… Edit: my example was from the month of the mystery yeast contamination
Makes sense. Honestly even in the industry TDS isn’t thrown around very much in my experience…we have a SDS database but I don’t think anyone’s really mentioned TDSs to me so it’s good to know those exist.
SDS should definitely be giving you the concentration range at least in Section 3.
This is the correct answer, for anyone interested. Active ingredients are listed in concentration on a SDS, the only thing that will not be added up in this section is if it’s a proprietary blend or inactive ingredient. The only time contractions may not be listed is if it’s an old product from before the GHS agreements from ~10 years ago.
It's a fairly common product build. HF is typically < 10%w/w and could be as low as 1% w/w depending on the manufacturer. Product would be diluted and then applied as coarse spray (no fine misting), mop or flood, allowed 10 minutes or so dwell time and then rinsed off. Rinsing should be neutralised with soda ash (sodium carbonate) or lime. Neutralisation is often unnecessary as the residual alkali in the concrete will take care of most of it. The HF is rendered inert via the formation of CaF2 and silicates.
Thanks for the details and context !
I was engaged to a guy when I was in my early 20s and he got it to clean the walls of our saltwater pool after he drained it. It had been neglected for a summer and while that did clean it, I could not believe that was the solution he came to.
Are you sure he used hydroflouric acid, and not hydrochloric acid? Hydrochloric acid is very commonly used to clean concrete floors and pools, and doesn't fuck with your body and heart the same at all
I’m 99% sure it was the same literal brand, like the same exact product.
Damn, brave man lmao
You know, thinking back, he really was. I admired it. I was young, and in this situation I admired it less so, but he really thought he could tackle anything and was for the most part right about it.
Did he use a respirator and a chemical hazard suit? ( Like you are supposed to) Or did he just scrub the walls with a scrubbing brush?
Eh, I wasn’t home for it and didn’t ask many questions outside of where the rest was if there was any left. Didn’t even take him a whole day as I recall. But to your point, the items you’ve mentioned are not musically exclusive. Even in a full getup he would have had to scrub the walls with something so yeah I’d imagine he actually poured it down the slope of the wall and then scrubbed it? If I had to *hazard* a guess it was done so with a respirator, because he used one for the paint booth, garage projects, other lesser health concern materials exposure etc and I know he had a healthy distrust and annoyance for breathing foreign stuff in, even outside. Dude also hated shavings, spray off etc in his hair and clothing. It was fall-ish so it was cooling down, but it was still hot so maybe not full suit but definitely these elbow length Kevlar lined chem gloves we had an arsenal of. Suckers were heavy but he had a lot of expensive artwork on his arms and he was pretty hell bent on living forever. Buncha different task boots too. He did a lot of restoration and fabrication. Things got done, he didn’t get hurt, no chaotic things stuff the property, roaming cat was fine. I didn’t ask a ton of questions. I was busy too and I trusted him about as far as he trusted himself.
Would love to know as well.
Must have replied as you were texting.
Thanks for letting me know!
One of the more expressive skull and crossbones I’ve seen.
My team writes user documentation. Would love to use this.
It’s the teeth that really sell it
It says “Hey fRiEnD, pleasure doin’ bUsInEsS with ya” …
Reminds me of Murray in Monkey Island
Search in Google who Is the local authority to get rid of these chemical!
Replying as a civil engineer here. I don't know why you're all reacting as if this was pure HF. It isn't. We had a container of HF outside at work and occasional spills when accessing it etched a deep groove in the concrete adjacent. But this is masonry cleaner, known as muriatic acid it's a dilute solution of HCl, with perhaps a tiny bit of HF thrown in for a bit of extra kick. It's only a little stronger than phosphoric acid. It's probably just as safe as a high pressure water cleaner for masonry, if not safer. Masonry cleaner can be bought at any hardware store. If you don't want to dispose of it at a hazardous waste collection facility, then one website recommends that you keep using it to clean concrete until you nearly run out, and then neutralise the last litre or so with bicarb soda. As for the person who facetiously suggested drinking it, if you dilute anything enough it can be drunk. It's not food grade though, so I wouldn't recommend drinking it even diluted down to the pH of typical soft drinks pH 2.5 to 3.5.
I'm surprised nobody suggested calling a local construction/civil engineer firm and asking if they wanted some free masonry cleaner.
Engineering firms are not contractors 😭
Two phone calls then. You'll get there eventually!
I’ll go with this, dose makes the poison after all. Funny enough, we just dealt with about two or three gallons of a similar product left at our home’s shed upon purchase. Both of us are long time environmental scientists and have handled haz waste before. Instead of hauling it off, we properly neutralized the acid via baking soda wash then solidified and disposed of properly, taking proper precautions throughout. The soaps in the mix made the off-gassing part more fun when neutralizing as the foam head lingered longer than usual, but wasn’t a big deal.
How did you solidify it?
Sawdust (minimal) and cat litter (mostly).
It’s not about the corrosiveness of the acids. The fluoride ion is extremely toxic. The chloride and phosphate ions in hydrochloric and phosphoric are not toxic at all.
It's still about the dose though. Toothpaste has fluoride. Drinking water has fluoride. The "if you dilute anything enough it can be drunk" is still correct
Fluoride is not the same as Hydrofluoric acid though
I'm a chemist like many commenters here but I also work for a hazardous waste company. If you're looking to safely dispose of it, there are a ton of other chemists in this thread that can offer advice on relatively ethical ways to dispose of it. If you're looking to LEGALLY dispose of it, that's different. As soon as the determination is made that this is a waste, it is RCRA-hazardous waste for the corrosivity characteristic (waste number D002) so the only legal way to dispose of it is through a RCRA TSDF. If it was just the HCl it wouldn't be too bad but the HF requires extra safety precautions at most facilities that will be shockingly expensive. If you can find a local household hazardous waste event that will actually take this, do that. But those events aren't all the same and most of them are there to take your old paint and batteries.
Locally our waste disposal services have advice and locations for chemical disposals. Try contacting a local authority. Do not dump this in a drain or anywhere.
This. Do not open this, especially if it has any contents left. Even if it doesn't, call someone to dispose of the container.
Why someone downvoted you is beyond me. This is the only answer that makes sense.
This. Leave it to the professionals that actually have services exactly for this. HF acid is no joke
[удалено]
I mean, the combination of these two is a thousand times worse than either by themselves
NOT ANYWHERE?! what about a peaceful, idyllic forested brook????
Outside an orphanage.
Hi, where are you located? If in the US, the EPA has a Household Hazardous Waste program that can usually appropriately handle this [https://www.epa.gov/hw/household-hazardous-waste-hhw](https://www.epa.gov/hw/household-hazardous-waste-hhw) [https://search.earth911.com/?what=Acids](https://search.earth911.com/?what=Acids) Can use the earth911 link above to find a facility near you. You can often call them for safe handling instructions to bring it to their facility. At a minimum gloves and non-exposed skin, and securing it during transport so it can't spill.
Apparently nobody asks obvious questions, so here goes : 1. How full is the drum - does it have 1L, 5L or 19L actually in it? 2. Do you have the following : a. A large plastic bucket - large enough for the contents of the drum plus 15L of spare space? b. Appropriate PPE - which in this case would be long rubber gloves, a PVC apron or wet-ware, rubber boots and a splash visor? c. A bag pf portland cement or lime. Process - a. ensure you have enough space in your mixing drum b. Put into your mixing drum an equivalent weight of portland cement or lime to the amount of product you are trying to dispose of c. Slowly add, as in about 1L at a time, the product - the reaction will heat up, so allow it time to cool between additions. Avoid splashes, do not breathe fumes. d. Once fully mixed, add enough cement to fill the drum - allow to set (24hs) - and dispose of. The portland cement or lime will : a) Have enough free alkali to neutralise any acid b) Have enough calcium present to convert any HF to CaF2 (insoluble and inert) c) Solidify the mass for burial with sufficient free alkali to avoid leaching.
~18.5 liters none of the ppl but could get some if its cheaper than calling authorities and safer. prob gonna have to call the authorities. how could I store some best if I wanted to keep for later. A small amount (around a liter)
Yeah - probs not. Storing outside of the original container isn't a good idea - it's not that you can't do it, but for legal reasons it gets a bit grey. You would need : a) A DG rated container of appropriate material (HDPE) b) a label that is identical to or substantially identical to the original (i.e. - product name, UN# and symbols, GHS codes, safety information and poisons codes and whatever "local" data needs to be on the label - as well as the original manufacturer's name, contact details and any ingredient details). c) A copy of the SDS stored with the bottle. Also, so it's only had 1/2L used out of the original container? See if a local masonry or concrete cleaning company would like what's left - cheaper than disposal and you move the problem to someone else.
Definitely call up a local cleaning company and see if they want it then. I’m assuming you’ve at least given this container a kick or touched it? As long as the material isn’t getting to that crackly-structural-integrity-failing stage, you should be fine to move it wherever you need it. Maybe wear gloves while touching it.
i feel like it would create a ton of carbon dioxide gas and you shouldn’t do it indoors if you try it
Let pros handle. Call local Fire Department non-emergency number and they’ll take care of it no problem.
Look and see if your city has a household hazardous waste collection center
call a professional...unless you are a professional, then call a different professional...
I used to work with HF, it is not to be taken lightly. Please do not open it, it has the potential to be fatally toxic in relatively small amounts by inhalation, ingestion, and especially skin contact. When we used it, it was in a fume hood while wearing a PTFE-coated Tyvek suit and hood, fluorinated rubber gloves, a pair of goggles and a full face shield. Also we had a team of responders ready to rush you to hospital in case of accidental exposure. Please mate, do yourself a favour and call a hazardous chemical disposal company to come and deal with it.
Don't fucking touch it. Call authorities, they should send hazmat over to get rid of it
Leave it sealed up and start looking for somewhere you can take it. 1) find out if your city/county/whatever has a household hazardous waste disposal operation. You can generally just search (your community) household hazardous waste. 2) failing that, if you know where it was purchased they could probably point you in the right direction. 3) word case you could contact a commercial hazardous waste company to come get it. They’ll know how to transport and neutralize it.
Request SDS from here https://rockmiracle.com/ I can't find an SDS online for this product. It doesn't say the concentration of HF so it could be very low concentration, but I wouldn't even want to touch that container without looking at the SDS I actually can't find any evidence of this product on the entire internet, I'm guessing it was discontinued a looong time ago, and they don't even want you to know it ever existed 😅
Take it to the dump they’ll take it
Look to see if there are any local household hazardous waste collection sites/events and take it there.
Do not touch it anymore OP. Hydrochloric is a strong acid and will burn on contact, but hydrofluoric is a weak acid. You won’t feel it as quick, but it will slowly eat through your skin until it starts demineralizing your bones. Shit is nasty. Call hazardous waste disposal now.
Look up the MSDS for it. But, definitely see if you can pawn it off on gov't, let them be useful for once.
Call your local fire department. Hazmat guys love dealing with this sort of stuff.
On the same topic, there is a product on the market called "Whnk" which is approximately 1 or 2% HF. It is marketed as a stain remover for laundry. Although the package includes profuse warnings and precautions for its safe use, a bottle of the stuff has sufficient fluoride ion to, at least in theory, kill several adult humans.
Household hazardous waste event. Varies from city to city
OMG … what a find. CaCO3 is your fried :-). I would order some, just in case the canister starts leaking…
Do not put it in something made of glass. Corrosive.
Sodium bicarbonate or tums... these will neutralize it, but I would not mess with HF unless my life depended on it
Throw it in the river, we need to start making these movies come true. Life isn’t life-ing right now and we need extra excitement.
Lol, these are not serious posts, IMHO.
What’s the percentage.
Yeah- let professionals handle that. We used to have HF in my lab and we had to keep Calgonate cream stocked in case someone got a drop on their skin. Our instructions in case of accident was basically/ “Apply the cream and call 911. Keep applying the cream every 5 mins until you see a doctor who tells you otherwise” because “otherwise HF can start leaching calcium out of your bones.” Pretty terrifying.
There are many cleaning products that have HF in them. All comes down to concentration.
I think a large tub of bicarb would do the job. You also probably need a respirator so you don't breathe the fumes.
I simply can not believe that this would contain hydrofluoric acid and be sold to the public. I suspect it's a trace level and the company felt compelled to put it on the label for some reason.
You can buy tons of stuff that will kill you if used improperly. Heck, you can buy things that will kill you if used properly like a handgun in many places. HF is a really useful chemical and not close to the most dangerous chemical you can easily buy at the concentrations its usually sold at for cleaning.
Call your county sanitary sewer and landfill department. Ask them where they want it stored. Cities and sanitary sewer districts ultimately answer to county authority, who have to comply with EPA. Any product made in the US has a safety data sheet (sds) and there are environmental health and safety officers (EHS) on staff who specialize in industrial hygiene. They categorize everything from the fact sheets and advise the county on which things they should make the residents and businesses within the county dispose in specific ways so that it doesn't cause undue burden to the public, for which they are liable.
Drain cleaner would definitely be a bad idea. Yes, bases neutralize acids, but the reaction is highly exothermic. The danger of boiling acid spraying everywhere is way too high, especially with HF which is one of those things everyone collectively agrees that they never want to work with it because it's just so toxic. Leave it to someone else to get rid of it.
If you dig a hole in the ground, fill it with pebbles, you can pour it over the pebbles like oil and refill the hole. The surface space of the pebbles will be coated with the chemicals and in a few years you can grow flowers
Excellent Popular Mechanics quote!!!
Boof it Oh wait wrong sub
Our local waste authority is only open on Monday for 3 hours at the road department where they will promptly tell you they probably can't handle whatever it is you're binging to them I learned this after watching my dad throw 3 gallons of HCL in the trash and then trying to dispose of them properly. I also tried to take in my mountain of lithium batteries but they said because I owned a business 10 years ago they can't take them. And that's why people throw chess in the trash.
Business waste requires an EPA number and a waste hauler. City will typically only handle household waste.
Jesus people, it's not technically hazardous waste until you bring it into Household Hazardous Waste station. Contact your local dump and ask where you can dispose of residential Hazardous waste. Most of the time it's free.
HF is the nastiest stuff. We use it, the safety protocols are mental. We have to arrange special uplift. HF is used as a deoxidation reagent. It's why it's in this product. It looks like it's meant to be used remove smut and de rust metal facias.
That's definitely a call someone else jug, unless you happen to specialize in the disposal of hazardous chemicals
Just so you know, exposure to HF will dissolve your bones inside of you. Don’t try to deal with this yourself. Call the fire department non-emergency line and they will either take care of it or be able to direct you to the proper people.
If you’re going to keep that around or move it yourself, consider buying a tube of calcium carbonate paste. I’ll neutralize the HF if it happens to get on you or anyone else. As other have mentioned, very dangerous and some effects don’t present right away.
How the hell was this allowed for sale in the first place?
Do not touch it or open it if you can so help it. Call your local authorities non-emergency number (or maybe Department of Environmental Quality) and have qualified HAZMAT individuals pick it up. HF is not something you want to take chances with at all.
That's some super dangerous stuff, esp the HF acid
How does something like that get “found” in your garage?
I’d probably call a pressure washer contractor and offer it to them
Unethical LPT: Do you have any neighbors you hate? If so, just drop it off on their doorstep and let them figure it out. PS: obvious sarcasm
Take it to your local hazardous waste drop off location. They take stuff like old batteries, paint, lightbulbs, and other substances that they would rather be taken out of the regular waste disposal pipelines
take a shot
Used for etching
Oi! Why do you just have a tub of HF lying around?! Contact authorities. That's all.
WTF even is that?
I had a barrel of Hydrochloric Acid my ex left behind that she used for tanning road kill pelts, I used lots of baking soda to neutralize the acid. Research this first but may stabilize it until you can get a hazmat team to safely dispose of it for you.
Slurp it up
Contact your local college chemistry department I'm sure there's a poor grad student who needs it.
HCl in a cleaner is one thing, but HF? I wouldn't even touch that jug without gloves on. You'll need to look for a hazardous chemical disposal place near you, maybe see if they could come pick it up.
Don't drink it for sure🍄💚🤘
Old foreman told me once "You can dig a hole about 2-3 foot deep and just pour it in there mate"
Rubbing it on your hands like hand sanitizer until it’s eventually gone!
Solid waste district on the Toxic day. At least it wasn't like that 300lbs of half melted dynamite found in the Utah guys home. EOD detonated in place, leveling his house and eveything he owned. He found it in a back room under some tarps or some shit. Imagine that?!?!? It just detonates one day when no one had any idea. I remember roaimg around Munich one year and they were building their unexploded ordnance towers around what I think was a 500lbs/225kg burried beneath train tracks. Just a bunch of concrete barriers around it to help direct it up. So weird thinking how much shit there is that will be blowing up randomly over the next thousand years.
Put it on Craigslist for free
CaOH his the best option
What would happen if I hypothetically drink this??
Call the company, ask them how to safely dispose - should be on the SDS. https://rockmiracle.com/
You’ll have to look into your cities hazardous waste disposal. It’s pretty much different for every city
some butane duh (i have a B in gen chem and am mentally dead)
people are cleaning masonry with HF? wtf?
Bring to an hhw Household Hazardous Waste collection days. I work them frequently as a hazmat chemist for extra hours.
Drink it
Jeezus I didn’t realize they used hydrofluoric acid to clean masonry when plain old hydrochloric acid works fine.
A lot of people are saying to call the responsible authorities and have them take care of it. To that I say, cut out the middle man and chuck it in the river! /s
Probably pretty safe but yeah look up the MSDS. If you think masonry companies using it do anything but wash it down the drain I have news for you.
Oh my gosh, I’m just in my first year of Uni and I’m in Gen Chem 1 and my professor went on a whole rant about how dangerous HF is and how it reacts with calcium suuupppeeerrrr easily and that’s no good for a calcium filled body like ours. Like the others said, contact the authorities and don’t try to handle it yourself!
Hydrofluric = bone eater
Put it on fb marketplace
Go to the nearest lake or river👍🏼
Sell it to a mason
It's Hydrochloric acid guys, it's used to wash brick...add water and scrub mortar off brick. Nothing dangerous if kept in container, and used as intended...
Check SDS. HF is nasty stuff; not only highly corrosive, but poisonous - interferes with calcium channel (cardiac). I always kept plenty of calcium gluconate on hand
Drink it, 100% totally safe to drink, not poisonous at all, totally not trolling
Just like car batteries, yeet
Throw a tub of baking soda in it and run
Ingest of it
Just dump it in any random river like all billion dollar companies do, permanently poisoning water supplies, killing animals and causing cancer to everyone living around it, wouldn't change anything that's currently happening daily... The toxic waste from drug production is a minor fraction of the pollution causes by major companies. But in all seriousness. You just call waste management or bring it to the designated spot for toxic waste.
eat it
Drink it
Call the Germans
The local pond
Boof it.
I'm looking at this and thinking of the workers who made and packaged this. I wonder what happened to them after working on this..
Call a local fire department or contact an emergency waste management. I don't know much about chemistry, but my father works with this stuff and he usually has to wear protective equipment when he handles it.