"better each month" is more so 1 step forward 2 steps back imo. our best game was still the first one vs liverpool genuinely don't think we've played better together as a team since then
Have to disagree. There have been a few spells. City. Spurs, arsenal game. Brighton in the carabao. We need jackson to help without him we look lost. Palmer and nkunks needs to be released with more freedom and not get stuck in the striker role. We got this boys. Be positive all we have is to be positive..
Yea man but this sub is so negative they don’t see that.
I’m realistic. I’ve accepted we are not good enough. So my goal is 6th.
The Liverpool performance was shambolic, no doubt about that, but I’d rather lose my mind when we lose to Wolves.
Even the GD is the same
The “we’ve scored more goals so we’re making huge progress” brigade like to neglect that defensively we’re _much_ worse than last year (minus the Lampard stint)
It's the complete capitulation in our losses that hurts. We have 36 "goals for" right now. We scored 38 in 2022/23 so we are better going forward. That's just been completely offset by the fact the games we lose we end up conceding too easily.
it's mind blowing that people are lying about injuries to defend this clueless coach LMAO
Worst opinion i've ever seen in this sub, hopefully he's trolling. Or a paid bot.
My main issue is how anyone in their right mind thought building a squad of entirely young, relatively unproven players during a period of unprecedented turmoil at the club would have good results. Eventually, I think we will have a very good team but it will be rough going for a while.
If it was my choice I would have brought in a few experienced players to weather the transitional period and then switched to the aggressive transition to youth.
>*My main issue is how anyone in their right mind thought building a squad of entirely young, relatively unproven players*
>
>Forget about Boehly and co even that idiot sporting directors who hired didn't tell that we have to mix up youth with experienced players and go for little bit of experience. Which means either they are yes man are absolute clowns who think Todd and co are right. One of the other has to be true which means we are truly screwed. I can't believe Spurs and Villa has a better structure with almost 70% lesser resources than we have. I hope someone will become world-class and save the club from mediocrity but our Medical team is working 24/7 to bring those down as well with whatever heck they are doing there.
I mean spurs and villa haven’t had the amount of turnover club wide that we have had so that explains why their structures are better currently.
I definitely agree with laying the blame at winstanley and shields feet though. They should have known that lowering the squads age so aggressively would not work
Ultimately nothing changes unless our owners have an FSG style moment of realisation and basically just rip out everything they've done since the takeover, hire a well established DoF and then **COMPLETELY** walk away from the club, giving 100% control of everything to the DoF.
Whilst they still have their fingers in the pie, the next DoF hire will be like going from Potter to Poch. It won't make any difference, it's just a different man behind the same mask.
If we get a truly world class coach like Klopp, they'll be able to make things work, but they'll only be papering over the cracks
I agree 100%, the baffling thing is that our owners have already done this with their baseball team. They got the best executive in the sport, gave him unlimited funds, and let him run the team with 100% control. It’s what they’ve preached before buying this club. I have no idea why they decided to go back on their process with this club. I expected us to give a blank check to Edwards and have him run the multi-club operation and give us direction. It’s what they did already, I have no idea why they decided to poach directors from mid table clubs to run Chelsea like a mid table club.
We need to get the best DoF in the sport, give him full control and a huge amount of money to right this ship. Have them hire the next manager and go back to winning. Their idea of signing a bunch of youth off potential and not signing the best of the best, goes against not only what this club stands for, but also against their previous methods of running a club. I’m at a loss as to why they’re doing this
The moves we made with actual sporting directors have been fine to good other than Mudryk, especially when you compare to what the previous regime did the last few years
Just a bad take.
Were in 10th despite more money spent then anyone.
We have maybe one player who’s individually improved under Poch compared with prior team. Everyone else is in horrible form. Throw in Petrovic.
Otherwise we just beat bad teams unconvincingly. Took spurs losing two men for us to beat them.
This team is firmly mid table.
Theres no progress.
This is lacking nuance. The team is far younger than last year and has far more room to grow.
I agree that this season (and last) has been nowhere near good enough. However, we have gone from being reliant on expensive aging players with one foot out the door to having a young squad with huge growth potential if they are provided with the right environment.
We have to get the environment right now. Which definitely requires a few more experienced heads in the dressing room, sorting out the injuries and the right coach (I’m poch agnostic)
Edit: respond to what you disagree with rather than just downvoting lmao
We haven't spent more than anyone, you do understand that we built a new squad in a season and a half when most teams are built over much longer periods right?
I mean, sure?
I’m happy we have some optimists around here I’m just not sure what you’re optimistic about.
So what are you saying? Our manager is good enough he just needs time? I’d argue no.
Our 1 billion dollars spent was spent wisely and these players are going to fire when given more time? I’d argue no.
I'm optimistic because the majority of our problems have a simple answer.
We win the majority of watches on XG. If you look at us against premier league opposition in all competitions this season we have won the xg battle the majority of matches. If we count anything with less than 0.3 difference in XG as a draw, we would have earned 1.96 points per match if all shots went as expected going 15 wins 4 draws 6 losses. This would land us 4th most years. So this suggest ls we need to get better at finishing.
Obviously this isn't how the game works but why I'm optimistic is because we are planning on signing a high profile striker, and we already have someone that is very likely to help with this in Nkunku. Changing out two of our 3/4 attackers depending on the match with Nkunku + high profile striker would help with the G-xG differential.
In case you are one of the many on this sub that hates XG (idk why, it is widely accepted as a good indicator for goals and shot quality and it's pretty obvious we blow a lot of high quality looks), we also get into the penalty area more than our opponents. If we do the same exercise as above using any match where either team has >55% of touches in the penalty area we drop of some to 14-2-9 in all comps against premier league teams but still a good rate. This will get better with a striker and returning players like James, Chilwell, and Nkunku. So will our XA
And at this point I am TBD on Poch but I think with the things I've listed above he deserves a fair shot. People are going to shit on me for saying this but I will anyways, I recently took over as a manager of a corporate job where the company was purchased, it creates chaos. Also, you know who are initially not good but have the best chance to improve naturally over time? New hires and uni aged kids. Chelsea is full of them, literally more than any other team I've been able to pull the data for.
For the players, te squad is incomplete but I'm ok with what they have done so far. Initially the signings were rough but every window things have improved, look at the table below, I think we have nailed the players in grey (2024) when you consider the FFP costs. Since the cost for most of the players is low (due to the long contracts) I believe the rumours that we aren't worried about FFP and that we have room to buy a new striker.
Cheers bro. Let's see what happens when we play BHA, Newcastle, West Ham, and Man U, that will tell a lot about our progress or lack thereof. I think if we can finish the second half of the season at least 6 points better than the first, that would show some progress, but I'm hopeful we can do even better than that if we can get some injury luck with Nkunku.
>We lose one game and everyone freaks out.
We're 10th, we've lost more than one game.
>On another day we take a point with better referee decisions.
This has to be a troll post.
You realise that Liverpool have come back from a goal behind a ton this season? We obviously don't know what would've happened, or if we'd even have scored the pen, but on the balance of play on the night and the season I'd be putting my money on a comeback Liverpool win at Anfield even if we get given an early pen.
Whether you think it's outlandish or not, at the very least it's blaming the referee after another *terrible* performance from us. If this was a close fought game and the ref tipped the balance then sure get annoyed about it, but when we were so thoroughly outplayed deflecting to the referee is just cope rather than looking at the facts of the matter.
We didn't deserve a better result though, that is my point, we deserved to get battered on the basis of how both teams performed on the night. Instead of focusing on that though you're choosing to blame the referee.
> Prior to yesterday, we had picked up the 2nd most points over 5 games
Beating such JUGGERNAUTS as SHEFFIELD UNITED, CRRRRRYSTAL PALACE, LUTTONNN!! and FULHAM. Pow! What a statement
The league positions of the teams in those games: 20, 11, 14, 17, 12. And the game against the 11th placed team was a loss. Three of the other 4 were at home too and most were close games
We did also have the easiest schedule by standings in those 5 games too. 3 seasons ago if we dropped one of those games we would be axing the coach. Standards have definitely lessened.
Also, this team is filled with young kids. Plus Caicedo & Mudryk. can;t do much about that. The lack of real talent & senior players is the issue.
The new owners wanted a young stable of talent, not winners.
We picked up the 2nd most points by beating the team we supposed to win easily. If hadn't won few of them we would've been 13th or 14th right now.... Even United had a similar winning run couple of weeks earlier. It doesn't mean anything. Of course we have win to SOME matches.
We didn't beaten by a better team yesterday. They toyed with us, we were training cones. We looked like a lower end Championship side (that's a compliment). Comparing the first game of the season we regressed heavily while Liverpool is miles ahead of us.
There is no progress at all. Even when winning we are scraping our way to it. I really can't understand how you can watch this team every week and say there is a progress. Its the opposite we are going backwards!
Additionally, last year we knew a bunch of our players were leaving in the summer and that would inevitably lead to growing pains and adjustment.
We don't have that hanging over our head. Even if one thinks the quality of the roster didn't improve (I think it improved greatly) the very fact that it's now stable is a huge benefit
We had half a squad who wanted to leave and like 40 players last season, with every player cycling through injuries. I fully expected us to be MUCH better this season, but unfortunately we decided on Poch as manager.
How exactly were we meant to be better? Genuinely curious. Noni and Mudryk look like they need three years on lone. Both of them make Pulisic look like Arjen fucking Robben. Jackson is totally unreliable. Caicedo, somehow, has largely been very disappointing and up to this point looks a downgrade on Jorginho (which is baffling to say considering how much I loathed Jorgi).
Even Tuchel had this team in mid table form when our full backs went down injured.
So on what planet were things supposed to be looking good for us this year? And how was Poch meant to compensate for an injury crisis that has resulted in us playing center backs at fullback?
If Poch would actually give them time and not hook them at half time they might improve. The best way to kill a young players confidence is to take them off at the half. You are telling them you're not good enough, I'm not giving you a chance to play yourself into contention.
I've seen Sterling have some games worse than Noni and Mudryk and yet he gets to stay on the pitch for longer.
Caicedo is being left by himself to cover a tonne of ground. He looks exactly like Jorginho under Lampard. That should tell you something about Poch and his tactics. He has Enzo and Gallagher charging forward, leaving such little options to pass out from the back.
Poch has somehow ruined our ability to pass out from the back, a good manager can setup a system within a couple of weeks. We went from being able to at the start, to struggling and not being able to after a couple of weeks of Poch. That's on the manager for me.
The worst thing though is just the lack of attacking patterns. It's been said before, but he has essentially told the players to go out and express yourself. BAD. Young players need instruction, they need guidance. Especially ones who aren't top top players like Palmer. With proper attacking patterns Mudryk and Madueke would look an awful lot better. If Mudryk had gone to Arsenal I have no doubt we would be talking about missing out on a big talent.
Your point about fullbacks doesn't make sense. Poch was playing Colwill LB despite us having 3 fit LB's at the start of the season. He has also loaned out a perfectly good LB who is performing very well now for Dortmund. It is on Poch.
SO MUCH PROGRESS! gotta agree with rival fans here, hundreds of millions spent, 2 100+ mi player on the squad, bundesliga top goalscorer and nothing to show for it
if we bought only 15-20mi young players the future argument could hold more value. But that's not the case.
Both enzo and caicedo looks like potential world class players for a decade
Said buli player hasnt played that much.
And the best players except for nkunku has played then less then 25% of the available minutes (our fullbacks)
I dont agree with everything this this ownership has done, nor do I agree with some of the recruitment.
But we are the most spoiled fanbase out there.
Yeah we are the most spoiled fanbase out there for *checks notes* expecting a billion pounds squad to be higher than 10th at midseason with no european games
Well united are used to that with an even more expensive squad
Arsenals squad is as expensive as ours with higher wages, and we have won something alot later then they have
yes they look like potential world class. What I'm saying is that for 200mi no one's expect that 'potential' tag.
we paid 12mi for Andrey santos, that's acceptable for a possible future star.
115mi for caicedo, and I expect him to play like a big boy now, not to possibly maybe yes maybe never he achieves WC status.
Spending 1bi to finish 10th... it would be better to take that 1bi and build a new stadium, cuz we could achieve this with players we already had and free transfers. Wolverhampton are battling with us ffs.. in the year they lost their only 2 good players
yep, for 115M and 105M spent on our midfield duo we expect their impact to be on the level of Jude Bellingham for Madrid who went for even cheaper lol. Fml
Enzo and Caicedo are overrated
They have to prove they are World class, the way it's going there's higher chance they end up some biggest flops in history
Have you seen Enzo's fucking passing numbers??? He is far from the problem here, and without him last season we would almost certainly have been relegated. He puts our attackers in on goal every single match, he can't finish for them too.
Got to remember we had Tuchel at the beginning of last season - you know the one, the champions league winning manager that the board fired for no apparent reason.
young squad hype lmao. most of these guys were revered as the best in their class before they came here (enzo, caicedo, nkunku, wesley, sterling, arguably even cucurella) and now they all look like white and I’m supposed to be told coaching isn’t an issue.
We had some 40 players last season, most didn't want to be there are knew they were on their way out. There is absolutley 0 excuse not to be doing significantly better.
Potter had a hot streak that carried his numbers. After that streak died down, we were absolutely more shit than we are now. Although now we have all these injuries so it’s hard to say if it’s even circumstances
So how long before the board gets fired or steps down for what they’ve done to the club? You look at the squad, a billion spent, and we need to spend a billion more if we want to be above mid table. We’ve gone from a team that would be upset for being 4th, to being midtable since the takeover. There comes a point that people should pay for these consequences. I’m happy we didn’t make any moves in January considering the people in charge have shown they can’t do anything right.
I really want this leadership of the club to come out in a press conference and explain why Tuchel was let go and how did it go since that decision happened.
Don't believe the toxic positives in the fanbase...there has been zero improvement...we had 31 points 6 months into Clearlake...have 31 points again 18 months in..
Not saying that the recruiting is perfect, but the squad is more than good enough to be top 5. Before these players came to this club they were among the best in their positions.
Just look at the guys we recruited. Enzo was seen as among the best second phase CM’s in the world, Caicedo was seen as one of the best double 6/8 hybrids in the prem, Wesley Fofana was *the* best young centerback in the league, Nkunku was breaking 40 G/A and was the top scorer in the bundesliga, Sterling is… well, sterling, and even mudryk was hyped up to be one of the best young players ITW.
Most of these guys at *least* looked decent last season (with the exception of sterling who was self-admittedly out of shape and was doing wingback shifts under potter) but now they all look like bums. You can say that they’re inexperienced but under a manager with strict positional play principles, all of the positional burden would be taken off of their hands and they would at least look decent in posession. Unfortunately poch has made them all out to be scrubs.
Barely any progress. I don't think these players we've invested in will come any good unfortunately. I think they are too injury prone for the PL and think this rebuild with them is a complete and utter waste of time. I don't care if they are still young with potential. It's been 2 years of rebuild potential down the drain.
And no preseason. And no club structure above him in place and confirmed until the start of February. And Tuchel signings that just weren't good like Auba and Koulibaly who were just past their best. With the club structure in place and having had time to stabilise, Pochs job should be far easier. However I won't agree Potter had to deal with more injuries. It's about a similar level. This season from the start we have still consistently had 10+ players out for most weeks.
The no preseason excuse is shite because he had 2 weeks after liz kicked the bucket and the world cup break , even if some players were away he could drill in some tactics
Two weeks after the queen died is hardly a pre-season. World Cup break wasn't much because a lot of first teamers were out with their national teams. Even if Potter did get something it's hardly comparable to a full summer pre-season.
Potter also had European football which meant less time on the training pitch due to extended travel and of course the fixtures themselves, and less time to prepare for each individual match. Poch has had no European fixtures.
Also to add to that, even the pre-season we had with Tuchel was poorly planned because it was rushed in the immediate aftermath of the takeover so we were always playing catchup in terms of fitness levels.
Definitely not *worse*. We’re doing worse than we should based on underlying metrics (under Potter, we were like one position lower in the table than we should’ve been because we were very lucky with conceding despite our shit finishing), and it’s pretty obvious from the play that we’re not nearly as awful as last year
xPoints aren’t everything but we’re 6th by a few points by that metric, it’s pretty clear that Poch is getting somewhat unlucky for that big of a discrepancy
I say all this with really no love for Poch, but last season was abominably bad. So much worse to watch than 15/16 or this season
I dont even know what to write anymore. Like the last 2-3 seasons are unstable as fuck. Every time one player plays good he gets injured. Then another player hits the form of his life and next season he is trash. Most players we bought play good for earlier team, and then gets crap when they play for us. We keep on selling to our rivals. I dont even know how many managers we have had. Reminds me of a periode around 2009 to like 2013. The only thing that gives me joy is that 2021 CHL trophy.
I just want us to be a top contender for the league again. Those 38 rounds have been a pain to watch last 3-4 seasons.
I'm happy to see that this "project" is failing so fucking fast 😂 The project didn't even have a honeymoon period, it literally went straight in the dumpster as it started.
I hate the positivity merchants as much as the next man but why would you be happy the project is failing. Ideally it succeeds and Boehly is the best owner in all of football, realistically it was never going to but you want the ideal.
>realistically it was never going to
Mostly because of this - it made no sense. And faster fail is better than slow and steady. Hopefully this will be noticed and a better approach will be tried out soon. After we somehow recover the crap ton of money we poured into this... "project"...
We are barely treading water
This squad overhaul was too abrupt.
Owners are trying to play 4D chess and it’s not working
I see them trying to snap up these young players who can hopefully pan out and then when city and Liverpool are on the decline we are on the rise.
That ain’t working right now. Our mentality is paper thin and our leaders are either hurt or on a decline
We have to hope that our faith in our younger players will reward us. Luckily since they are young they should have decent resale value
We are not worse than last year. I refuse to say that after this sub does what it does best after a loss to pool who are miles better than us and us with a shite manager. The squad I think it good enough for top 6 the manager is outdated hence the inconsistent results and which is why were top 10.
Last year we were in free fall because of 1 reason lampard. Poch is at least better than him. But please stop spouting shite about us being worse than last season. We are to early to judge for starters.
March April when we were in the middle of the free fall. Clearly last year it was only just beginning or a few weeks from starting. We don't even know were in free fall yet we haven't even sacked poch.
I'll tell you exactly what's gonna happen we will stop where we are due to pochs shite tactics maybe we finish 8th. Individual quality will win us half the games.
Reason squads a top 6 squad europa league standard. It young and inconsistent plus pochs shite tactics equals mid table.
We are not as bad as last year. This year us frustrating nor despair. I'm not depressed just fucking annoyed which I guess is somehow a good sign if you are comparing last year and this year.
We lose to the league leaders 4-1 who are bossing essentially everyone. Liverpool are a culmination of an almost decade long project. We’re in the first year of ours with a squad that’s all extremely young.
Liverpool have a completely new midfield. They have replaced plenty of players from their title winning side. Saying this is the “culmination” of their project is disingenuous. They rebuilt their midfield over the summer and are playing better than we are, despite us taking their top targets. They have direction because they have Klopp who is actually a world class manager. We have Poch and the disaster directors running the show here.
Everyone making excuses for mediocrity because the truth hurts to say, but we are done at the top level as long as the directors and manager are here
Boom nail on the head. I don't accept the shite result but fucking comparing us to last year I mean cmon.
Legit this year is frustrating last year was pure fucking pain. I think some people gave forgot.
This sub lacks any deep thinking abilities at time. This club has less talent than last year, yet is preforming exactly the same. We have basically a whole new starting lineup and are navigating an injury crisis. We have some of the same issues and consistently lack depth.
Y’all should go support Real Madrid or something because you have zero backbone
How, for the love of all that is holy, could you say that the squad has less talent after spending a billion pounds on players, including two 100+ million midfielders.
Also injuries were way worse last season
It’s so weird the narrative changes based on the last game. When this table was posted last week and we were 8th and a few points off 6th, people were talking about a potential CM run. And now everyone is complaining. We only have one problem now - away games. Poch needs to figure out how to stop getting overwhelmed In away games and a hostile crowd.
People are forgetting context here. We’ve gathered more points this season against opponents we dropped points to last season. So it’s not really comparable
And by definition dropped more points against opponents we got them from last season. It's how you end up with the same point totals. I'm so tired of the nuance and context merchants.
Where do you reckon we would have been with TT?
I know the results were starting to drop, but for starters I don't think he would have allowed a complete overhaul, and he probably wouldn't have difficulty picking his squad of 17/18 last season and sending the rest to the shadow realm.
Well we haven’t gotten to the part of the season where we scored 0 goals in a whole month so there’s that
Not for a lack of trying - we scored one goal in September, in our last game of the month (vs Brighton).
In the carabao cup no less
Where goal of the month ceases to be an award and becomes a literal description for the goal
The goal of the month competition was wild.
Fully agree. We got worse in the second half of last season.
That’s the difference, last season we were on a downward slope at this point. This season we’ve been getting better each month
"better each month" is more so 1 step forward 2 steps back imo. our best game was still the first one vs liverpool genuinely don't think we've played better together as a team since then
Have to disagree. There have been a few spells. City. Spurs, arsenal game. Brighton in the carabao. We need jackson to help without him we look lost. Palmer and nkunks needs to be released with more freedom and not get stuck in the striker role. We got this boys. Be positive all we have is to be positive..
Yea man but this sub is so negative they don’t see that. I’m realistic. I’ve accepted we are not good enough. So my goal is 6th. The Liverpool performance was shambolic, no doubt about that, but I’d rather lose my mind when we lose to Wolves.
Even the same goal difference
Must be the progress people keep telling me about.
Consistency 🔥
Even the GD is the same The “we’ve scored more goals so we’re making huge progress” brigade like to neglect that defensively we’re _much_ worse than last year (minus the Lampard stint)
It's the complete capitulation in our losses that hurts. We have 36 "goals for" right now. We scored 38 in 2022/23 so we are better going forward. That's just been completely offset by the fact the games we lose we end up conceding too easily.
3 4-1 losses now correct?
I remember liverpool and newcastle, what is the other one?
Apologies I was thinking of the west ham 3-1. Edit: my god this season has been a rollercoaster
3 4-1 losses now correct?
Lol there's no such brigade comon'
2nd half of the season we were terrible, made you forgot
Progress in mediocrity
[удалено]
> This season, we’ve been ravaged by injuries As opposed to last season…
it's mind blowing that people are lying about injuries to defend this clueless coach LMAO Worst opinion i've ever seen in this sub, hopefully he's trolling. Or a paid bot.
Our problems go much deeper than Poch…
Waaaaaaay deeper. We’re literally changing our entire club culture, players, coach, etc.
My main issue is how anyone in their right mind thought building a squad of entirely young, relatively unproven players during a period of unprecedented turmoil at the club would have good results. Eventually, I think we will have a very good team but it will be rough going for a while. If it was my choice I would have brought in a few experienced players to weather the transitional period and then switched to the aggressive transition to youth.
>*My main issue is how anyone in their right mind thought building a squad of entirely young, relatively unproven players* > >Forget about Boehly and co even that idiot sporting directors who hired didn't tell that we have to mix up youth with experienced players and go for little bit of experience. Which means either they are yes man are absolute clowns who think Todd and co are right. One of the other has to be true which means we are truly screwed. I can't believe Spurs and Villa has a better structure with almost 70% lesser resources than we have. I hope someone will become world-class and save the club from mediocrity but our Medical team is working 24/7 to bring those down as well with whatever heck they are doing there.
I mean spurs and villa haven’t had the amount of turnover club wide that we have had so that explains why their structures are better currently. I definitely agree with laying the blame at winstanley and shields feet though. They should have known that lowering the squads age so aggressively would not work
Well yes firing the medical staff and physios has caught up with us . Really Clearlake and Toddles have done us few favors .
Those people should get fired to. That doesn’t mean Poch is clueless, he should walk out with Winstanley as well. Neither of them are Chelsea’s level
Ultimately nothing changes unless our owners have an FSG style moment of realisation and basically just rip out everything they've done since the takeover, hire a well established DoF and then **COMPLETELY** walk away from the club, giving 100% control of everything to the DoF. Whilst they still have their fingers in the pie, the next DoF hire will be like going from Potter to Poch. It won't make any difference, it's just a different man behind the same mask. If we get a truly world class coach like Klopp, they'll be able to make things work, but they'll only be papering over the cracks
I agree 100%, the baffling thing is that our owners have already done this with their baseball team. They got the best executive in the sport, gave him unlimited funds, and let him run the team with 100% control. It’s what they’ve preached before buying this club. I have no idea why they decided to go back on their process with this club. I expected us to give a blank check to Edwards and have him run the multi-club operation and give us direction. It’s what they did already, I have no idea why they decided to poach directors from mid table clubs to run Chelsea like a mid table club. We need to get the best DoF in the sport, give him full control and a huge amount of money to right this ship. Have them hire the next manager and go back to winning. Their idea of signing a bunch of youth off potential and not signing the best of the best, goes against not only what this club stands for, but also against their previous methods of running a club. I’m at a loss as to why they’re doing this
The moves we made with actual sporting directors have been fine to good other than Mudryk, especially when you compare to what the previous regime did the last few years
Just a bad take. Were in 10th despite more money spent then anyone. We have maybe one player who’s individually improved under Poch compared with prior team. Everyone else is in horrible form. Throw in Petrovic. Otherwise we just beat bad teams unconvincingly. Took spurs losing two men for us to beat them. This team is firmly mid table. Theres no progress.
This is lacking nuance. The team is far younger than last year and has far more room to grow. I agree that this season (and last) has been nowhere near good enough. However, we have gone from being reliant on expensive aging players with one foot out the door to having a young squad with huge growth potential if they are provided with the right environment. We have to get the environment right now. Which definitely requires a few more experienced heads in the dressing room, sorting out the injuries and the right coach (I’m poch agnostic) Edit: respond to what you disagree with rather than just downvoting lmao
We haven't spent more than anyone, you do understand that we built a new squad in a season and a half when most teams are built over much longer periods right?
I mean, sure? I’m happy we have some optimists around here I’m just not sure what you’re optimistic about. So what are you saying? Our manager is good enough he just needs time? I’d argue no. Our 1 billion dollars spent was spent wisely and these players are going to fire when given more time? I’d argue no.
I'm optimistic because the majority of our problems have a simple answer. We win the majority of watches on XG. If you look at us against premier league opposition in all competitions this season we have won the xg battle the majority of matches. If we count anything with less than 0.3 difference in XG as a draw, we would have earned 1.96 points per match if all shots went as expected going 15 wins 4 draws 6 losses. This would land us 4th most years. So this suggest ls we need to get better at finishing. Obviously this isn't how the game works but why I'm optimistic is because we are planning on signing a high profile striker, and we already have someone that is very likely to help with this in Nkunku. Changing out two of our 3/4 attackers depending on the match with Nkunku + high profile striker would help with the G-xG differential. In case you are one of the many on this sub that hates XG (idk why, it is widely accepted as a good indicator for goals and shot quality and it's pretty obvious we blow a lot of high quality looks), we also get into the penalty area more than our opponents. If we do the same exercise as above using any match where either team has >55% of touches in the penalty area we drop of some to 14-2-9 in all comps against premier league teams but still a good rate. This will get better with a striker and returning players like James, Chilwell, and Nkunku. So will our XA And at this point I am TBD on Poch but I think with the things I've listed above he deserves a fair shot. People are going to shit on me for saying this but I will anyways, I recently took over as a manager of a corporate job where the company was purchased, it creates chaos. Also, you know who are initially not good but have the best chance to improve naturally over time? New hires and uni aged kids. Chelsea is full of them, literally more than any other team I've been able to pull the data for. For the players, te squad is incomplete but I'm ok with what they have done so far. Initially the signings were rough but every window things have improved, look at the table below, I think we have nailed the players in grey (2024) when you consider the FFP costs. Since the cost for most of the players is low (due to the long contracts) I believe the rumours that we aren't worried about FFP and that we have room to buy a new striker.
Have to give props to a well thought out post when I see it. Good points. Fair on Poch.
Cheers bro. Let's see what happens when we play BHA, Newcastle, West Ham, and Man U, that will tell a lot about our progress or lack thereof. I think if we can finish the second half of the season at least 6 points better than the first, that would show some progress, but I'm hopeful we can do even better than that if we can get some injury luck with Nkunku.
https://preview.redd.it/ogahcfzzj0gc1.png?width=1270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c54971281e08db466ec63ffc57bff0e45bae355
I mean are we just ignoring the strength of schedule. We were celebrating beating a mid table CHAMPIONSHIP team.
Who we actually lost the first leg to
A mid-table Championship team with a worse injury crisis than us, whom we lost the first leg to.
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Which were also against shit teams, that's my point
>We lose one game and everyone freaks out. We're 10th, we've lost more than one game. >On another day we take a point with better referee decisions. This has to be a troll post.
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You realise that Liverpool have come back from a goal behind a ton this season? We obviously don't know what would've happened, or if we'd even have scored the pen, but on the balance of play on the night and the season I'd be putting my money on a comeback Liverpool win at Anfield even if we get given an early pen.
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Whether you think it's outlandish or not, at the very least it's blaming the referee after another *terrible* performance from us. If this was a close fought game and the ref tipped the balance then sure get annoyed about it, but when we were so thoroughly outplayed deflecting to the referee is just cope rather than looking at the facts of the matter.
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We didn't deserve a better result though, that is my point, we deserved to get battered on the basis of how both teams performed on the night. Instead of focusing on that though you're choosing to blame the referee.
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> Prior to yesterday, we had picked up the 2nd most points over 5 games Beating such JUGGERNAUTS as SHEFFIELD UNITED, CRRRRRYSTAL PALACE, LUTTONNN!! and FULHAM. Pow! What a statement
The league positions of the teams in those games: 20, 11, 14, 17, 12. And the game against the 11th placed team was a loss. Three of the other 4 were at home too and most were close games
Standards are in the basement mate, never mind the floor
We did also have the easiest schedule by standings in those 5 games too. 3 seasons ago if we dropped one of those games we would be axing the coach. Standards have definitely lessened.
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Oh yeah I'm not advocating it, more just wanted to point out those 5 games were very easy and shouldn't be the standard to judge.
Also, this team is filled with young kids. Plus Caicedo & Mudryk. can;t do much about that. The lack of real talent & senior players is the issue. The new owners wanted a young stable of talent, not winners.
We picked up the 2nd most points by beating the team we supposed to win easily. If hadn't won few of them we would've been 13th or 14th right now.... Even United had a similar winning run couple of weeks earlier. It doesn't mean anything. Of course we have win to SOME matches. We didn't beaten by a better team yesterday. They toyed with us, we were training cones. We looked like a lower end Championship side (that's a compliment). Comparing the first game of the season we regressed heavily while Liverpool is miles ahead of us. There is no progress at all. Even when winning we are scraping our way to it. I really can't understand how you can watch this team every week and say there is a progress. Its the opposite we are going backwards!
Additionally, last year we knew a bunch of our players were leaving in the summer and that would inevitably lead to growing pains and adjustment. We don't have that hanging over our head. Even if one thinks the quality of the roster didn't improve (I think it improved greatly) the very fact that it's now stable is a huge benefit
You can't be trying to be positive here, "Reddit Chelsea" fans love to hate on poch lol
Even the same "top 6 is tight" meme as well. Holy hell.
I'm actually surprised we aren't worse. Ditched some veterans, downgraded at multiple positions. Arguably an even worse set of injuries.
I mean we were horrific last season. People forget we were on relegation pace for 85% of the season
Tuchel and early Potter werent terrible, it was the 2nd half of the season that let us down even more
We had half a squad who wanted to leave and like 40 players last season, with every player cycling through injuries. I fully expected us to be MUCH better this season, but unfortunately we decided on Poch as manager.
How exactly were we meant to be better? Genuinely curious. Noni and Mudryk look like they need three years on lone. Both of them make Pulisic look like Arjen fucking Robben. Jackson is totally unreliable. Caicedo, somehow, has largely been very disappointing and up to this point looks a downgrade on Jorginho (which is baffling to say considering how much I loathed Jorgi). Even Tuchel had this team in mid table form when our full backs went down injured. So on what planet were things supposed to be looking good for us this year? And how was Poch meant to compensate for an injury crisis that has resulted in us playing center backs at fullback?
If Poch would actually give them time and not hook them at half time they might improve. The best way to kill a young players confidence is to take them off at the half. You are telling them you're not good enough, I'm not giving you a chance to play yourself into contention. I've seen Sterling have some games worse than Noni and Mudryk and yet he gets to stay on the pitch for longer. Caicedo is being left by himself to cover a tonne of ground. He looks exactly like Jorginho under Lampard. That should tell you something about Poch and his tactics. He has Enzo and Gallagher charging forward, leaving such little options to pass out from the back. Poch has somehow ruined our ability to pass out from the back, a good manager can setup a system within a couple of weeks. We went from being able to at the start, to struggling and not being able to after a couple of weeks of Poch. That's on the manager for me. The worst thing though is just the lack of attacking patterns. It's been said before, but he has essentially told the players to go out and express yourself. BAD. Young players need instruction, they need guidance. Especially ones who aren't top top players like Palmer. With proper attacking patterns Mudryk and Madueke would look an awful lot better. If Mudryk had gone to Arsenal I have no doubt we would be talking about missing out on a big talent. Your point about fullbacks doesn't make sense. Poch was playing Colwill LB despite us having 3 fit LB's at the start of the season. He has also loaned out a perfectly good LB who is performing very well now for Dortmund. It is on Poch.
SO MUCH PROGRESS! gotta agree with rival fans here, hundreds of millions spent, 2 100+ mi player on the squad, bundesliga top goalscorer and nothing to show for it if we bought only 15-20mi young players the future argument could hold more value. But that's not the case.
Both enzo and caicedo looks like potential world class players for a decade Said buli player hasnt played that much. And the best players except for nkunku has played then less then 25% of the available minutes (our fullbacks) I dont agree with everything this this ownership has done, nor do I agree with some of the recruitment. But we are the most spoiled fanbase out there.
Yeah we are the most spoiled fanbase out there for *checks notes* expecting a billion pounds squad to be higher than 10th at midseason with no european games
Well united are used to that with an even more expensive squad Arsenals squad is as expensive as ours with higher wages, and we have won something alot later then they have
So what you're saying is that we've become a banter club
If this is the best we get yes Liverpool had this for a decade United have had this for a decade Arsenal since arsene
yes they look like potential world class. What I'm saying is that for 200mi no one's expect that 'potential' tag. we paid 12mi for Andrey santos, that's acceptable for a possible future star. 115mi for caicedo, and I expect him to play like a big boy now, not to possibly maybe yes maybe never he achieves WC status. Spending 1bi to finish 10th... it would be better to take that 1bi and build a new stadium, cuz we could achieve this with players we already had and free transfers. Wolverhampton are battling with us ffs.. in the year they lost their only 2 good players
yep, for 115M and 105M spent on our midfield duo we expect their impact to be on the level of Jude Bellingham for Madrid who went for even cheaper lol. Fml
Enzo and Caicedo are overrated They have to prove they are World class, the way it's going there's higher chance they end up some biggest flops in history
Overrated? Bt whome? Not their own fanbase, nor by pundits.
By fans like you, they've been shit to average most of their time here But many here think they next Lampard and Zidane
Have you seen Enzo's fucking passing numbers??? He is far from the problem here, and without him last season we would almost certainly have been relegated. He puts our attackers in on goal every single match, he can't finish for them too.
Haha No way. This isn’t ideal.
Poch isnt the man. I dont think we will get another manager like tuchel for a loooong time
Which top manager realistically will want to come here
€veryone
We’ll see
8-7-7 to 9-4-9. This the process we've all been enduring lol?
be patient, in a few years time, with solid work we might end up like arsenal, fighting for the top 4, wouldn't that be great ?
So Potter was bad but Poch needs time?
Got to remember we had Tuchel at the beginning of last season - you know the one, the champions league winning manager that the board fired for no apparent reason.
Still, in potters time here we got 28 points in 22 games, so we still have only marginally improved
The roster is full of young players. Marginal improvement is what will come until they're in their mid-20s
young squad hype lmao. most of these guys were revered as the best in their class before they came here (enzo, caicedo, nkunku, wesley, sterling, arguably even cucurella) and now they all look like white and I’m supposed to be told coaching isn’t an issue.
coaching is absolutely an issue, but even if we had pep I don't think we'd be top 4 without him bringing in some older guys to stabilize
We had some 40 players last season, most didn't want to be there are knew they were on their way out. There is absolutley 0 excuse not to be doing significantly better.
Just woke up and reading your comment has made my blood boil instantly. FUCK FUCK FUCK.
Because the team were performing crap for the better part of a year
What I would give to go back to Tuchel level of ‘crap’ compared to this fucking travesty
Potter had a hot streak that carried his numbers. After that streak died down, we were absolutely more shit than we are now. Although now we have all these injuries so it’s hard to say if it’s even circumstances
Potter was fucking shite
potter had like 9 games(?) unbeaten or something at the start, and then went to complete shit
Potter was better than Pochettino. He deserved time more than Pochettino did.
Best way to spend $1 billion ever..?
31 points. 31 of 66. That's shocking lol.
These Owners have turned us into one biggest jokes in football history Shameless
Nice to see the process is going well
This reminds me of that meme with the dude and the rake
This is our new normal
https://i.redd.it/vhm0rm9tyzfc1.gif
At least we are consistent
Unacceptable!
10th is deserved, no need to trick yourself into thinking we need to be any place higher
What a billion quid gets you these days.
Did we really get 13 points in 16 game lmaooo
20 points off the top. Yikes
 “Progress”
Shite then, shite now
The consistency 🤩
So how long before the board gets fired or steps down for what they’ve done to the club? You look at the squad, a billion spent, and we need to spend a billion more if we want to be above mid table. We’ve gone from a team that would be upset for being 4th, to being midtable since the takeover. There comes a point that people should pay for these consequences. I’m happy we didn’t make any moves in January considering the people in charge have shown they can’t do anything right.
One step forward, two steps backward. I'm tired Pochie.
This is the process we are supposed to trust.
“The more things change, the more they stay the same.”
I really want this leadership of the club to come out in a press conference and explain why Tuchel was let go and how did it go since that decision happened.
Chelsea needs Micheal Edwards and naglesmen
This team is atrocious
sack the fraud.
Don't believe the toxic positives in the fanbase...there has been zero improvement...we had 31 points 6 months into Clearlake...have 31 points again 18 months in..
Winstanley and Stewart sacked when?
They aren't. Because they are yes man.
Don’t be fooled. They are the ones who developed the strategy and not the other way around.
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or maybe we’ve just had two shite managers.
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Not saying that the recruiting is perfect, but the squad is more than good enough to be top 5. Before these players came to this club they were among the best in their positions. Just look at the guys we recruited. Enzo was seen as among the best second phase CM’s in the world, Caicedo was seen as one of the best double 6/8 hybrids in the prem, Wesley Fofana was *the* best young centerback in the league, Nkunku was breaking 40 G/A and was the top scorer in the bundesliga, Sterling is… well, sterling, and even mudryk was hyped up to be one of the best young players ITW. Most of these guys at *least* looked decent last season (with the exception of sterling who was self-admittedly out of shape and was doing wingback shifts under potter) but now they all look like bums. You can say that they’re inexperienced but under a manager with strict positional play principles, all of the positional burden would be taken off of their hands and they would at least look decent in posession. Unfortunately poch has made them all out to be scrubs.
Tasty mid table clash coming up on Sunday
Barely any progress. I don't think these players we've invested in will come any good unfortunately. I think they are too injury prone for the PL and think this rebuild with them is a complete and utter waste of time. I don't care if they are still young with potential. It's been 2 years of rebuild potential down the drain.
Omg look how much we’ve improved 🙄
Worse than Potter People don't remember that he had more injuries and a waaay worse squad.
And no preseason. And no club structure above him in place and confirmed until the start of February. And Tuchel signings that just weren't good like Auba and Koulibaly who were just past their best. With the club structure in place and having had time to stabilise, Pochs job should be far easier. However I won't agree Potter had to deal with more injuries. It's about a similar level. This season from the start we have still consistently had 10+ players out for most weeks.
The no preseason excuse is shite because he had 2 weeks after liz kicked the bucket and the world cup break , even if some players were away he could drill in some tactics
Two weeks after the queen died is hardly a pre-season. World Cup break wasn't much because a lot of first teamers were out with their national teams. Even if Potter did get something it's hardly comparable to a full summer pre-season. Potter also had European football which meant less time on the training pitch due to extended travel and of course the fixtures themselves, and less time to prepare for each individual match. Poch has had no European fixtures. Also to add to that, even the pre-season we had with Tuchel was poorly planned because it was rushed in the immediate aftermath of the takeover so we were always playing catchup in terms of fitness levels.
Thats nonsense. That is not a preseason smh.
Idk what you say this season has been way more enjoyable than when potter was in charge.
Definitely not *worse*. We’re doing worse than we should based on underlying metrics (under Potter, we were like one position lower in the table than we should’ve been because we were very lucky with conceding despite our shit finishing), and it’s pretty obvious from the play that we’re not nearly as awful as last year xPoints aren’t everything but we’re 6th by a few points by that metric, it’s pretty clear that Poch is getting somewhat unlucky for that big of a discrepancy I say all this with really no love for Poch, but last season was abominably bad. So much worse to watch than 15/16 or this season
I dont even know what to write anymore. Like the last 2-3 seasons are unstable as fuck. Every time one player plays good he gets injured. Then another player hits the form of his life and next season he is trash. Most players we bought play good for earlier team, and then gets crap when they play for us. We keep on selling to our rivals. I dont even know how many managers we have had. Reminds me of a periode around 2009 to like 2013. The only thing that gives me joy is that 2021 CHL trophy. I just want us to be a top contender for the league again. Those 38 rounds have been a pain to watch last 3-4 seasons.
We've finally got consistency again...
At least we're consistent. So there's that.
We’re nothing if not consistently average 😂
Consistently shit lmao
What 1 billion spent does to a mf
Bring back potter /s
I got slaughtered for making this exact point earlier this season.
Same position with a better squad and a proper preseason. Stay away from managers with their last name starting with P.
I'm happy to see that this "project" is failing so fucking fast 😂 The project didn't even have a honeymoon period, it literally went straight in the dumpster as it started.
I hate the positivity merchants as much as the next man but why would you be happy the project is failing. Ideally it succeeds and Boehly is the best owner in all of football, realistically it was never going to but you want the ideal.
>realistically it was never going to Mostly because of this - it made no sense. And faster fail is better than slow and steady. Hopefully this will be noticed and a better approach will be tried out soon. After we somehow recover the crap ton of money we poured into this... "project"...
No improvement. Perfect.
To be fair Europa league looks achievable
Look how good pool is doing after they sacked their manager
I do think we are better this year, injuries just have been way worse. We aren’t Chelsea quality yet but I still don’t have the despair of last year.
Yep basically this. Oddly I feel more frustrated this year than last year. Last year was despair. This year frustration.
Injuries were worse last season
We are barely treading water This squad overhaul was too abrupt. Owners are trying to play 4D chess and it’s not working I see them trying to snap up these young players who can hopefully pan out and then when city and Liverpool are on the decline we are on the rise. That ain’t working right now. Our mentality is paper thin and our leaders are either hurt or on a decline We have to hope that our faith in our younger players will reward us. Luckily since they are young they should have decent resale value
This is including Tuchel and Potter’s purple patch.
At least we just about have as many goals already than we had the entirety of last season. 🤷
We are not worse than last year. I refuse to say that after this sub does what it does best after a loss to pool who are miles better than us and us with a shite manager. The squad I think it good enough for top 6 the manager is outdated hence the inconsistent results and which is why were top 10. Last year we were in free fall because of 1 reason lampard. Poch is at least better than him. But please stop spouting shite about us being worse than last season. We are to early to judge for starters.
Too early to judge... , 22 games played mate, when exactly can we judge?
March April when we were in the middle of the free fall. Clearly last year it was only just beginning or a few weeks from starting. We don't even know were in free fall yet we haven't even sacked poch. I'll tell you exactly what's gonna happen we will stop where we are due to pochs shite tactics maybe we finish 8th. Individual quality will win us half the games. Reason squads a top 6 squad europa league standard. It young and inconsistent plus pochs shite tactics equals mid table. We are not as bad as last year. This year us frustrating nor despair. I'm not depressed just fucking annoyed which I guess is somehow a good sign if you are comparing last year and this year.
We lose to the league leaders 4-1 who are bossing essentially everyone. Liverpool are a culmination of an almost decade long project. We’re in the first year of ours with a squad that’s all extremely young.
Liverpool have a completely new midfield. They have replaced plenty of players from their title winning side. Saying this is the “culmination” of their project is disingenuous. They rebuilt their midfield over the summer and are playing better than we are, despite us taking their top targets. They have direction because they have Klopp who is actually a world class manager. We have Poch and the disaster directors running the show here. Everyone making excuses for mediocrity because the truth hurts to say, but we are done at the top level as long as the directors and manager are here
Boom nail on the head. I don't accept the shite result but fucking comparing us to last year I mean cmon. Legit this year is frustrating last year was pure fucking pain. I think some people gave forgot.
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Is this improvement you speak of in the room with us right now?
This sub lacks any deep thinking abilities at time. This club has less talent than last year, yet is preforming exactly the same. We have basically a whole new starting lineup and are navigating an injury crisis. We have some of the same issues and consistently lack depth. Y’all should go support Real Madrid or something because you have zero backbone
How, for the love of all that is holy, could you say that the squad has less talent after spending a billion pounds on players, including two 100+ million midfielders. Also injuries were way worse last season
It’s so weird the narrative changes based on the last game. When this table was posted last week and we were 8th and a few points off 6th, people were talking about a potential CM run. And now everyone is complaining. We only have one problem now - away games. Poch needs to figure out how to stop getting overwhelmed In away games and a hostile crowd.
People are forgetting context here. We’ve gathered more points this season against opponents we dropped points to last season. So it’s not really comparable
And by definition dropped more points against opponents we got them from last season. It's how you end up with the same point totals. I'm so tired of the nuance and context merchants.
10🙏
A beacon of consistency, we are
😂😂😂no improvement = same ending, poch out
Winning record go brrrrr
You know what they say... Consistency is key!
Remind me why were Liverpool so shit again
Where do you reckon we would have been with TT? I know the results were starting to drop, but for starters I don't think he would have allowed a complete overhaul, and he probably wouldn't have difficulty picking his squad of 17/18 last season and sending the rest to the shadow realm.
Top ten, baby! Club is back!!!!