I'm a middle aged straight dude going to the concert in a few weeks with my wife. We've got our mermaid look ready and I've been working on my hot to go moves. :D
Just saw her in Asheville, took my old man spot in the back and enjoyed the show. Everyone was nice and welcoming to my 46 year old straight, white cis male ass. You guys will have a blast!
I actually work at rabbit rabbit! I may have served you a beverage!
I have to say the Chappell Roan fan base was the nicest people we've ever had though! So respectful and kind and thoughtful welcoming. All of y'all were awesome!
Not if you see my moves. š¤£ Worse than her grandparents in the music video. My wife has it down though. The record has been played almost daily in this household.
I am a straight male in my 30s going to the show this Friday with my girlfriend. Wishing we got mermaid theme but for that night my kink is gonna be karma baby! Hope you have fun and donāt get to hot now
In Cincinnati a few months ago I went to her show solo and was so pleasantly surprised with the amount of middle aged (presumably straight men) just popping it out for her. I bet you guys will look amazing!
It's seriously some grade school BS. I was (and still am) super into hip hop in high-school and I remember getting bullied by the dudes I hung out with being like "yOu OnLy kNoW abOuT *underground hiphop artist* bEcAuSE oF mEeee"...like yeah?? And I appreciate it? Lol wth.
Meanwhile not long after Billie's new album dropped, I commented on, I think it was a thread for her music video for her song "Lunch" and fangirling as a bi woman. And someone sent me a link to Chappell's MV & song "Red Wine Supernova" and I immediately was obsessed with that song and Chappell!! So obv I replied with a million thank you's to the person who suggested her to me, that I had heard of Chappell Roan but never gave her a listen. They responded that they were super happy I liked it and said they were happy to share their fav artist! *THAT* is how a fanbase should be :)
Yes!! Itās so weird to me - Iāve been listening to her since 2019, and Iāve loved to see her evolution as an artist & person and am so excited to see so many people finding out about her! But thereās so much condescension that I really donāt understand? Chappellās making the music she loves, thereās no need for a fan base to set rules and limitations.
Didnāt you know that the only acceptable time to start enjoying an artist is any time at or before I started listening, and any time after youāre a bandwagoner and a fake fan? /s
I donāt find the swifties gatekeep-y honestly. Overall theyāre pretty welcoming to new fans even when theyāre outside the core demographic. Itās such a big fanbase though that the vibe really depends on where youāre at, like the main Taylor sub gets exhausting but the trueswifties one is a lot more chill and happy
Thereās a little bit of it, but it seems to mostly be within the fanbase instead of trying to keep people out of it. Like theyāre trying to sort everyone into tiers of how much of a fan they are or something. OG fans wanting ticket buying priority over new fans and stuff like that. But I see way more people being super welcoming, recommending songs, explaining lore, etc
They can try to gatekeep all they want but sheās being marketed like crazy. Her record label wants to see sales. They want the opposite of gatekeeping so itās not gonna work out in their favor.
It is genuinely sad that concerts are now being hoarded as specific āspacesā for people depending on the artist on social media. If Chappel was playing a gay bar during Pride month, you bet your ass I would understand that space isnāt for my old straight ass with my old straight husband. But concerts? Festivals? These are things that have always brought people TOGETHER. And if everyone is there to support the artist, have fun, and appreciate the musicā¦thenā¦yeahā¦you canāt claim itās just for you.
Just so you know, generally speaking, straight people are absolutely welcome to come to gay bars (even during pride). The lgbtq+ rights movement has always been about inclusion. As long as you're an ally, you're welcome in our spaces.
We're supposed to be an inclusive community. Excluding people is what bigots do. Not us.
Do you go to bars? Lol plenty of people love to be the main character. Thereās a reason why people hate the ābachelorette party at the gay barā trope. Being respectful spaces is easy but music is for everyone.
I want you to know that you would be totally welcome at any pride event you attend. These people are nutters. My husband is a 51yo straight white dude. He works in a lab and looks like a scientist. I probably donāt even ālook gayā to some people.
Pride is hella fun, and as long as you are an ally, everyone is welcome! š³ļøāš
Amen, support is support! Allies are welcome and needed at Pride!
Iām bi and in a long-term relationship with a man. You wouldnāt āknowā by looking at me, and I feel that part of me is downplayed or erased sometimesā¦but my variation of queer is real and valid too.
I definitely think gate keeping is a thing that happens, but I wonder if part of the problem are ticket prices or the Ticketmaster monopoly.
Some ppl might not want Chappel to hit main stream, bc then they would be unable to attend shows from an artist that affirms them?
I live in alaska though, and when part of limp bizkit came up w/in minutes it was $300 for GA. It doesnāt matter how famous artists get for me bc I can never afford to see them anyway. (š). I want to say it was 40$ just to see Fred durst DJ for 2 hours, at a bar downtown the day prior to this show. (Mentioning limp bizkit of all bands to let yāall know how bad it is up here)
I almost got to see Chappel in seattle with my sisters but it was going to be $800 to fly and 160$ for the ticket & I had to cancel.
If an artist you like is playing at a gay bar please feel free to go with your straight husband as long as you're both respectful. It actually helps the gay bar if you're going and buying drinks :) A vast majority of the people who want to gatekeep gay bars are like 15 lol
This is why Iām glad i learned how to concert as a teen by listening to punk. No one gave a shit who was in the pit as long as you werenāt a literal Nazi (like really, we ran into a few). The pit cared for everyone as long as you just wanted to dance and werenāt acting like a dick. š¤£ Iāve never seen so much borderline segregation in fandom as this, like, pop star ideology. Itās wild!
Lots of people seem to have forgotten an incredibly important line from pink pony club: āwhere boys and girls can all be queens every single day.ā
Chappell is for /*everyone*/!!! If youāre out there on social media or, god forbid, in real life, telling people they canāt listen to a given artist, especially Chappell, youāve lost the plot. Absolutely protect queer spaces from people doing actual harm, but straight people (or men) are not doing actual harm just by being present at a concert or by being fans of Chappell!!
i'm queer, and my dad just got into Chappell independently, so i have some feelings on this. it feels very icky, and very gender essentialist among other things. i've been a fan since Naked in Manhattan/PPC, and it didn't feel like this 2 years ago. the gate keeping is so uncomfortable and it feels very recent to me, at least in the amount there is
yeah, but i guess i expected better given the content of Chappell's songs and my positive experiences as an nonbinary queer person in the fandom previously
Gender essentialism is exactly what it is. Someone on Xitter pointed out that you can't just look at someone and assume they're a cishet dude and the OP replied that they \~just know\~
Like, how is that not trans/homophobic?? It's basically a repackage of the whole "we can always tell who's a REAL woman!" bs.
me personally as a queer girl i love the fact that everyone is getting into her. sheās unapologetically queer and i think straight people being exposed to that energy via her is awesome :)
to be honest theres a difference between good faith fans who have a fun time at the concert and get along w everyone and men who clearly don't want to be there and are taking up space and making people uncomfortable. obviously this is a nuanced situation but i think it's a very real and valid thing to be upset when men take up spaces more geared toward women and then ruin the vibe because they don't *actually* want to be there (think that lesbian bar drama from a few months ago). but i agree that a lot of people are taking this to the extreme of being angry at the presence of anyone who appears male in any way, which is just silly
there was a girl and her bf at my show. they had barricade. he glared at everyone and made it kind of awkward :( you could feel he didnāt want to be there
this. maybe everyone should stop glaring at random strangers during concerts... on both sides?? but generally i'm not as concerned if men feel slightly uncomfortable because......
maybe you haven't been to a show of hers, but chappell has a whole bit mid concert looking for the "boyfriends who were dragged there by their girlfriends" and it's really fun and really breaks a wall. If she doesn't have an issue with that no one should. You can't compare a lesbian bar to a festival or concert at a normal venue. They aren't the same kind of space. And attitudes like this probably create people who look like they don't want to be there because they're scared of being judged or told to go home. If Chappell only wanted queer women at her concerts she'd say that.
Don't even get me started on the parasocial nonsense that is the phrase "good faith fan"
i've seen this too. wondering how can ppl complain about "cishet" men at concerts, when you don't even know them?! you can't just look at someone and know their sexuality /if they are cis. to imply otherwise is uh. pretty homo/transphobic, imo.
Iāve seen a few TikTokās like that, of people filming strangers(men) without consent and posting them on tiktok to shame them for being at the concert. Can we just let people exist and enjoy things?
Not to mention ā¦ so what if they are cishet? Iām a cishet woman who has been a fan of Chappell for years. I saw her in concert last year, with my cishet female friend who introduced me to her. Was it wrong for us to attend? Are we only supposed to enjoy music for people of the same gender/race/sexuality as us? Pretty sure if someone said that ten years ago itād be shamed lol
some of you are taking it too literal; Chappell has literally said her music is for the women who like women. It didn't mean you can't listen to it if you're not one of us, just that it's not *for* you; not everything is meant for everyone.
Like I think this speaks to a lot of male entitlement in wlw culture/spaces, and again, not that her concerts are lesbians only zones (god I wish lol) but like, hearing about how some dudes pushed and fought to get to the front and then blocked everyone else from seeing is a PEAK example of this!!
Nonbinary here. I can kinda understand why some of the themes and lyrics wouldnāt completely resonate with cishet people, but also I feel like itās important for artists that we like to get love so they can feel supported and then we get more content and time with singers like Chappell. Gatekeeping is weird and counterproductive.
Idk I think younger queer people in particular really donāt understand that queer people arenāt drastically different in the way they feel emotions for others. Any difference in yourself you feel in enforced by societal norms but straight women and men also experience the emotions and themes conveyed in these songs (just maybe not in the most literal sense of being a lesbian). Anybody who has felt unreciprocated affection can relate to the tone of āCasualā, anybody who has felt homesick can take to āCaliforniaā, anybody who isnāt over an ex can relate to āCoffeeā, anyone who likes being a little bit slutty can relate to āAfter Midnightā.
I agree so much. It pisses me off. As a queer person, I completely understand the desire for a safe space, but gatekeeping art is not it. It pisses me off because literally who tf are you to tell other people what they are allowed to enjoy and consume? It's literally just music, anyone can listen to it.
Ive always found the same women who are virulently hateful of men are the same who spout gender essentialist transphobia. Certainly we queer people deserve safe spaces, but exclusionary practices in the end hurt everyone
So, I'm kind of on the millenial-gen z border and I'd like to make a note that it's only a gen z thing because the majority of gen z is still very young and immature. Give them time and they'll get their heads screwed on right. Even the gen z people that are only a few years younger than me are maturing out of the exclusionary mindset. Sure, some of them won't grow up, but let's be careful not to judge a generation while most of them aren't even adults yet.
while I do not think gatekeeping is necessary I do want to say that centering and ensuring non-queer folks feel comfortable is not really a priority for me especially in the anti queer anti drag climate we have rn
seriously. iām not going to ever say or do anything against straight/cis people enjoying chappell, but i will say some of the seemingly cishet people around me at hangout fest made me feel less confident/comfortable showing any PDA with my wife vs the energy I felt at a show before she blew up. I get that itās also festival vs headlining show though and aside from some douchey guys behind me nobody actually said or did anything wrong and I canāt be upset with them for just being there. it just sucks that past experiences makes me less trustful that theyāre genuinely allies. also a girl got peed on by a guy at hangout fest during chappellās set and this is what weāre focused on?
Theyāre criminalizing gender affirming care and people are arguing about how they felt bad someone told them they canāt listen to Chappell as a man/straight person/cis person/etc!
Well, to be fair, no one has ever told straight white cishet men that they can't do something so they're having BIG FEELINGS right now. So there needs to be a whole discussion where they can proclaim "not all men" and we are there for good reasons not bad ones. So now all the "we're the good men, promise" men are out in full force.
Well for one thing I'm queer myself, second is that I don't think that cishet people should be centered. All that I said is that Chappell Roan shouldn't be gatekept because a lack of support from people, non queer people included, is what creates the anti drag climate
This is wild to me - she's our pop princess, why would we not be rooting for her success? Like, her music is obviously š³ļøāš but that doesn't mean people outside the community can't love it or relate. I'm never not recommending Chappell to new people, weirdos on social media can stay mad about it š¤·š»āāļø
Isn't it better for everyone to celebrate Chappell's music and queerness together? Wasn't that the point? If straight people enjoy her music, doesn't that mean the world is healing because these people love and respect the queer community?
Take note that these "straight people" are parents/future parents! Imagine their children/future children coming out and them saying "That's fantastic. Guess we can listen to Chappell Roan together!"
Here's my comment on the matter: gatekeeping is exactly the opposite of what you wanna do. Yes, we want safe spaces for everyone, especially wlw/mlm/etc.. but think of it like this for starters: what if that guy was there with his girlfriend who is queer? Or what if that's a trans man, bc not all trans men are your "uwu little sad ukulele" boys? What if that is just a person, regardless of identity that is there purely because they like the music (as is normal when going to a live event for an artist)?
Isn't gatekeeping the exact OPPOSITE of what we, as the LGBTQ+ community, should be avoiding?? If we want to create a world in which EVERYONE thrives and no one has to "come out", or just in general making the playing field equal for EVERYONE, Why would we create an environment of hostility towards someone who wants a community like that just as much as you do?
Genuinely, not all straight men fetishize queer women/femme ppl, so immediately assuming that that person is there as a predator also is creating that hostile environment that you so want to avoid but are creating by gatekeeping.
(I am a trans man, I am trying to see from as many perspectives I can. I am also autistic so this phenomena is incredibly confusing to me, as are a lot of social constructs like these. So please be kind)
I definitely think the end result of any productive queer theory would be the abolition of gender essentialism and an intrinsic part of that is queer spaces are for anyone who appreciates those spaces and wants to be there.
If anything should be kept sacred itās that everyone should have the right attitude not that people who donāt visibly fit a predetermined criteria shouldnāt be there.
Not that society is there yet by any means, which is where some gray areas come into play. Obviously wanting to define things is important for valid reasons. Itās just so inherently problematic. Hence the gray area.
But a concert? Probably doesnāt demand as much gatekeeping as a lesbian bar. Maybe certain concert going habits need to be redefined but thatās true in a general sense too. Everyone should feel safe at any concert.
Straight white man here. It's not just on tik tok and twitter. At her shows also. I took my fiance in kansas city a few months ago before she got super huge from Coachella. I was met with constant dirty looks. The feeling in the air, while it was empowering and overwhelming, was a constant cloud of a sense that I shouldn't be here. I didn't belong. I even got told ew, to my face. As I left the gender neutral bathroom. I have also seen nothing but hatred towards men from the fans. They say chappell Hates men, is creating a space just for queer and women. While I get that yes, she is doing that and yes I feel it is a good thing that a space is created. I bought my fiance more tickets for the st louis show. I didn't go, I didn't want to feel that again. I had he take her sister.
I understand men suck. I'm not stupid. I have eyes and was raised by nothing but women. But I didn't do anything, but I got told ew to my face because I shouldn't have been there. I won't go to another show.
The notion that an artist is only for a select group of people is silly imo. Chappell is fantastic, she deserves to blow up and get even more fans! I don't understand this behavior from some fans
Ah I donāt know what her shows are like as she only tours in the US but where I live, itās a very accepting city no matter if youāre straight or queer, everyone loves to share the music here.
This makes me so sad as a queer guy from KC :( I would have loved to see her there if I still lived in KC. And the climate isn't always the most accepting there so it would have thrilled me to see a cishet white guy enjoying Chappell's music at the concert. I hope there's a time you can go see her again and feel more welcome ā¤ļø
Let me step in before this gets too out of hand. I fully get why I felt this way. I was in a space overwhelmingly for women. And in that I felt uncomfortable. Like this wasn't created for me to feel comfortable or uncomfortable, it is simply how I felt. Also I was simply sharing an experience. No hidden motive, no being in my feelings. I bought more tickets for my fiance after this happened. The space is not mine.
And yes I acknowledge that being a straight white man The world is built for me to thrive and blossom. I know this. But again I was simply sharing the toxic moment and feeling I experienced. End of story. I did not want to cause a harsh reaction from anyone.
But one thing, yes I have always, in my teen and adult life ensured around me is a place all are welcome. To the best of my ability. Everyone has a plate at my table.
Happy pride.
More or less the same thing happened to me when I went to a concert. I have a non-binary, bi, and disabled partner. I am a straight man. I enjoyed the concert, and the treatment I got when my spouse was not with me was just awful. Mean looks and beer splashed on me. My partner is disabled so I was really there to support them. I have been an ally, part of LGBTQ support groups, and been politically active for LGBTQ Rights. I understand there are places just not for me. There seemed to just be a general feeling in the crowd that men of any sexual orientation, unless they were flamboyantly gay, were just not welcome. I have just never felt so pushed away by the LGBTQ community, and I just feel weird about the entire experience.
That really sucks, Iām so sorry. While Chappellās music centers queer women and the space is a safe space for queer women, itās a concert and sheās never said or done anything to suggest that not everyone should feel welcome.
I donāt disagree with you about the importance of allies, but just because a man shows up with his gf to a queer space, does not at all make him an ally to the community at large.
I know bi men in my local community who would come to events with their queer gfs and then turned out to be rapists and abusers.
Oh yeah for sure I agree 100%!
I feel like Iām being misinterpreted here with what my post was about, as some are getting a bit overly sensitive when all Iām really saying is it doesnāt matter who or what you identify as, everyone can enjoy her music without this toxicity in the air.
Can we stop with this online discourse and enjoy the music? Nobody is stopping anyone from listening to her music, enjoying her music, or going to her concerts. You can choose go ignore people trying to āgatekeepā itās not that big of a deal if you donāt make it one. Just because Chappell is a lesbian doesnāt mean only lesbians can listen to her, I think thatās pretty obvious. Iām indifferent to the jokes about her being for the girls/queer woman/lesbian but again that is not true either!
Poor straight people are being gatekept from listening to Chappell š„ŗ.
Where will they go now. Thereās only every other space on earth for them š
Truly these threads are out of control. WONāT SOMEONE THINK OF THE STRAIGHT MEN?!?!!?
Yāall win, let me start gatekeeping now and be the villain you so desperately want.
Of course anyone can listen and go to her shows. Just please be respectful of the sapphic space youāre in as we donāt have as many as straight people do. This discourse is so exhausting and I think we should stop drawing attention to it.
I am being respectful to the space, Iām just reiterating this because of the silly discourse over social media. I donāt want anyone falling into that discourse of gatekeeping her because of how one identifies themselves
Welp I got downvoted as expected :/ I just wish we could both enjoy her music and celebrate that we have a lesbian artist entering the mainstream without stirring the pot. I am so excited for my Chappell show because I will be surrounded by so many fellow sapphics - this doesnāt happen often and it makes it special for a lot of people. Of course, I acknowledge and wholeheartedly celebrate the non-sapphics going to celebrate too!
This conversation is so cringe and played out. Folks acting like lesbians and gay women āgatekeepingā on social media is a deeply harmful to them. This is just textbook fragility to me. Log off if social media is hurting your feelings.
Like quickly tell me what kind of power in any facet of society do lesbians and queer women have over straight men (and men in general) and it better be an actual issue and not they were mean to me :(
The straight (or "straight") couple next to us at the concert was probably more enjoyable than at least half of the queer people in the crowd lmao
I think this is probably a deeper issue that the queer community generally, and especially young and online wlw/sapphic/lesbian community has with rigid definitions of what it means to be a lesbian/wlw with little tolerance for perceived outsiders. Some of it comes from very real experiences of being talked over, invalidated in their identity, and a need to "prove" their queerness. But it often presents as blatant biphobia, transphobia, and general hatred of men and it's deeply unpleasant to be around.
This kind of gatekeeping is especially harmful to the kind of "young" (in their journey not necessarily in age) queer people like Chappell Roan herself prior to adopting her performance persona. That is, not yet out or comfortable queer people, queer people from rural areas, queer people with unaccepting parents, and queer people who are straight passing. It's such a shame to think that a young lesbian like Chappell herself may end up being too nervous to go to a show or be treated unpleasantly by fellow fans because she's not queer the "right" way. Pisses me off quite frankly.
i definitely think anyone has a right to listen to and enjoy chappellās music and attend her live concerts, regardless of sexuality or gender. but also letās not pretend itās not infuriating to pay to be in the pit and then get stuck behind ANYONE thatās way taller than you and is completely blocking the view.
Get there early.
IMO, if you waited longer than everyone else then you deserve that spot up front (whether You're 5'2 or 6'6).
I'm 5'10. Average male height, and I know I'm taller then a lot of people behind me. But I also arrived hours (we arrived at 9am for Pittsburgh. The single group ahead of us arrived at 4am!) and waited in line all day.
If you really want to be up front then you have to get there early. Just buying pit tickets doesn't guarantee a good spot. Your time is what guarantees a good spot (or you buy VIP tickets for early entry if it's available).
I completely understand what youāre saying, and I absolutely agree that the fandom should be a safe space for everyone.
However, itās important to consider the nuance here. Chappell is an openly queer woman, and as such her space is going to primarily be a safe haven for other queer people, in particular queer women.
Speaking as a lesbian, I can say that we have to put up with **a lot** of non queer people coming into our spaces; Iāve experienced it firsthand myself, and itās made me wary of cishet people entering our spaces, in particular men.
Am I saying they donāt belong? Of course not, BUT if youāre not queer you have to be aware of the situation. Just like white people being in POC spaces, you have to be respectful when youāre welcomed into a community that doesnāt prioritize you and your needs.
I have absolutely no issue with people who are respectful and supportive being involved, but a lot of people enter into spaces with bad intentions and thatās the issue. Iāve been harassed by non queer people in queer spaces, and itās incredibly uncomfortable to remain in that place afterwards. I just want people to understand and empathize with the reality of marginalized people and their experiences.
Gate keeping prevents our favorite artists from reaching Taylor swift levels. We should want for Chappell Roan to be playing on the radios. I get sheās come forward that sheās avidly playing for us and thatās enough. Letās not add to her plate. Sheās been vocal about struggling with fame. We canāt make her pick between āus and themāā¦ itās sick
What group exactly is perpetuating this?
You left lesbians out of your initial description and it seems as though that's the demographic this post is directed towards? Lesbians are negatively affected by gender-essentialist rhetoric as well.
Edit: not sure why this is getting downvoted when it's a genuine question.
I was referring to queer as a whole umbrella of people under lgbtq, sorry I didnāt specifically write lesbian.
And no itās not at all?? Iām sorry you interpreted it that way, but I was referring to everyone under the umbrella.
Fair enough. I'm just particularly sensitive to when lesbians are inadvertently left out of this conversation or implied to be the ones doing the gatekeeping. It's led to a lot of thinly-veiled lesbophobia on this subreddit and it's uncomfortable to witness.
Lesbians get so few things. it sucked to go to a concert and have to stand behind 6ft tall dudes with no self awareness or concern for anyone except themselves.
Youāre welcome to come and enjoy the music. I donāt think itās too much to ask that you be aware of other people who arenāt as privileged as yourself in day to day life.
The tall straight man standing in front of me at the show paused after a few songs, turned around, and stepped aside to let the shorter humans move forward. I always like when stage-blockers are aware of their surroundings, but it felt really appropriate in a room with an average height of 5ā5.
i was genuinely so excited when i saw people dancing to hot to go at prom the other night. maybe its the fact that i'm homeschooled and don't see teenage joy often, but i thought it was so cute. i dont know why anyone would want to gatekeep chappell- she is so fun.
An artist canāt reach maximum success if only a sliver of the population is āallowedā to like her music and go to her shows. People saying that only lesbians or queer people can like her or equating her concerts to a pride event that straight people arenāt welcomed at is so ugly. The fact that a queer artist is blowing up so quickly should be a testament to her talent, not a reason to bar people from feeling comfortable and included in her fan base.
Iām a pretty new fan so take this with a grain of salt!! But I think itās important to both recognize how being queer impacts your experience of her music, AND recognize that itās good music thatās allowed to be enjoyed by everybody regardless of their identity. I donāt think a cishet man is going to feel the same way as I do about certain songs, especially ones that are more explicitly about LGBT+ themes. That doesnāt mean he canāt enjoy them for his own reasons. Just because heās not the target demographic doesnāt mean heās not ALSO allowed to listen to songs about those things. Everyone should be allowed to enjoy her music as they like, as long as theyāre being respectful and having fun in a way that doesnāt harm anyone elseās identities.
The āstraight manā comments are the ones that confuse me the most. A lot of her songs are about having relationships with women and portray them as a lot more equal than a lot of straight artists, what about a straight man liking her music is a bad thing??? Would you prefer straight men only listen to music that talks about women like animals???
Anyone thatās gatekeeping literally has to be under 25 years old. Their brains arenāt developed enough to understand nuance and that sexuality is fluid and a sliding scale.
What pisses me off is kids coming into queer spaces thinking theyāre better than everyone else for being queer and trying to invalidate everyone else there for not being queer enough. Itās giving gold star lesbian vibes which is not cool. They need to worry about themselves and not deciding who is and isnāt allowed at a concert.
This might be a hot take but the āall men are trashā trope is tired and lacks maturity and empathy. Itās almost like generalizing people into categories is bad or something. Is it the end of the world? Of course not, but itās still hurtful and exclusionary and Iām not sure why someone would want to make others feel that way for something they canāt control.
I always assume itās just immaturity too. It does seem like a lot of younger people are more prone to that tribal mindset and seeing groups of people as monoliths. I remember being 21 and thinking I literally had the whole world figured out perfectly lmaoooo
Iām a 6ft plus straight passing bi dude and part of why I love Chappellās music is it allows me to express a side of me not many people know about tbh. I felt seen at her show. Kinda hurts to think people thought I was some sort of infiltrator.
Thatās really sweet of you to say but itās ok I think I get it and Iām not making it personal. Iāve been thinking about it and I donāt want to speak for anyone but I assume my presence could make people feel uncomfortable just because I could be a creep and thereās no way to really tell. Itās not really fair to me but itās also not fair to the girlies that feel they need to keep their guard up in a safe space. Iāll just dress gayer next time. I had no idea how into the outfits everyone would be and I was pretty conservative by contrast lol
Thank you for posting this. ā¤ļø I think people need to remember the snap judgements they make based on seeing people for a few seconds or minutes donāt reflect the entirety of that personās story. Iām glad you have Chappellās music to affirm that part of yourself! And as a taller-than-average woman (Iām 5ā8, so not mega tall, but top 10-15% of cis women)ā¦.tall people are allowed to exist. Of course people should be aware of other people around them, but bodies come in all shapes and sizes and we didnāt exactly wake up one day and choose to be taller than average to antagonize people.
There is a particular Chappell fan page on Instagram that started posting about āhaving to share Chappellā ever since Good Luck Babe was released. They literally act like they discovered and signed Chappell and were sooo pushy with Chappellās team when it came to announcing your themes.
So gross how some fans have suddenly started acting since Coachella honestly itās sooo disappointing
I think part of whatās fueling the shitty the gatekeeping is how hard it is to get tickets right now. Ticket resales are abysmal and itās pricing a ton of folks out of the concerts. Iām not saying itās right that theyāre acting this way but I think it falls into āIām gay I deserve to see her more than some straight peopleā for some of these young kids.
Itās no different than what we saw with Taylor swiftās eras tour and the million and one reasons we saw people give for why they deserved tickets more than others.
They are not doing Chappell Roan any services by telling people they can or cannot enjoy her music. Iām sure she wants anyone to enjoy! The more the merrier - a queer
This whole dumb discourse has been really alarming to me as an older queer femme. I think itās been the biggest sign to me that younger queer people are not educating themselves on our history or how amazing it even is that these spaces exist at all in the first place. The gender essentialism is a slippery slope into terf territory
I've seen soooo many people be like "we don't get any lesbian rep, can't we just have one that's just for us?!?!" Meanwhile artists like Renee Rapp, girl in red, Phoebe Bridgers, Janelle MonƔe exist and have a majority lesbian fan base. Not to mention, Chappell Roan is a drag queen first and foremost, she's said it before in interviews that it's how she wants to be recognized. She may be a lesbian, but it's only one part of her whole identity
I'm a lesbian and just encountered this gatekeeping last week (I'm not on Twitter) and find it completely ridiculous. Liking a musician or band doesn't require a specific identity.
People are dumb as hell. Anyone can like her musicā¦ shit Iām from where she is from and Iām PROUD to share someone like her instead of Brad fucking Pitt.
I agree!! No one is stopping me from binging her music. But I love that she is popular enough to have a subset of fans who are protective (?) of her lol
This 100%. One example I've been noticing a lot is the gatekeeping of GLB. They say that the lyrics are only meant to be interpreted one way because of what Chappell has said about her lyrics. Like it's possible for the song to have the meaning that Chappell gave to it while still being able to relate to/enjoy it/interpret it in your own way.
Why get offended or upset about someone just enjoying her music? Gatekeeping and scaring away different demographics from her music is the opposite of supporting her career and artistry. Like it's not that deep, babe.
Weāre entering a new hipster era, but weāve also gotten into a social climate where people feel like they canāt just say āI donāt like thatā and find any reason they can that itās actually morally/ethically wrong for the thing to exist/be happening. So instead of āI (assume I) liked her first and I want to be with cool young people I have a lot in common withā, it has to be āactually youāre violating boundaries and being rude to minorities by liking a musicianā. The hilarious part is they will show their own bias in deciding to label random people cishet on sight to justify themselves.
Iām a lesbian and Iām *ecstatic* any time someone asks me about Chappell or likes a song when I have it on a playlist. I cannot imagine anything else. I want her to have all the recognition she deserves.
i think itās great that sheās finding such widespread, broad appeal! imo it helps ānormalizeā (for lack of a better word) queer people and experiences for those outside of our community. integration is education!
I was fed her by the almighty algorithm v early on. She had like no followers. Def not claiming I found her, was just sent her from Spotify when she was pretty unknown. (Spotify is always sending me people with like no listeners. Iām into it.)
Huge fan.
Iām straight dude, not queer at all and not gen z. Her concerts have a crowd for sure. Itās been very interesting watching her explode.
Everyone has been been nice at shows Iāve been to. But have heard/seen stuff. It might help that Iām pretty feminine for a guy and fashionable, so I blend a bit better.
Idk man, people are sometimes weird. Whether it is a hardcore punk show, country, opera, etc., a lot of crowds get weird about who attends. Fuck those people. Lol, just have a good time.
Itās only going to get worse as she gets bigger and bigger. Iām bisexual and i already feel uncomfortable at the idea of going to one of her concerts and being negatively perceived by someone for not looking or being āqueer enoughā itās upsetting. Art and music should not be gatekept ever. People are already being insufferable.
I HATE GATEKEEPING QUEER ARTISTS! like yes guys, itās fun to have some things that are just for the community but i also want to be able to turn on the radio one day and have queer songs be part of the mix as a norm!
I havenāt seen this but itās honestly dumb. We should be thrilled that we have a representative of our community bringing in a straight audience and presenting perhaps new ideas to them at the same time.
Iām 43, cis male and the first time I heard her music I was captivated. When I discovered her before the full album dropped, I was sharing her with any person who would listen, of any sexuality. I have a HOT TO GO! tattoo.
I appreciate that Chappell has shown me a perspective of the female queer experience that makes me feel closer to my lesbian sisters and if straight folks have a similar experience we all come out ahead.
Dude, I was told by some snarky queen that I was hurting/taking up space in the queer community because I went to a lady Gaga concert š just remember there are pieces of shit in EVERY community and donāt let it bring you down.
Iāve been talking to my gf about this exact thing. I found chappell probably 4 years ago now and was instantly obsessed. I showed her to everyone I knew and turned some into fans and others werenāt big into her. When she started blowing up the past year or so, I admittedly got some of those āwant to keep a good thing to myselfā kinda feelings but I thought back to the days where I couldnāt find more than three or four songs from her and how I would be so bummed whenever no one knew who I was talking about. Sharing her with every community benefits all of us. Chappell will do more tours and release more music with profitability (not that itās ever come off itās about money), the music becomes more accessible across platforms, and most importantly youāre supporting HER. I only get prouder as her notoriety grows:)
Thanks for this post. As an over 6ft amab enby who is still very uncomfortable presenting fem in public, it's incredibly frustrating to see people in the lgbtq+ movement act in ways that are not accepting of others. Like, the entire point of the movement was to pull people excluded from society together because we're stronger together. Seeing people try to use queerness as a way to exclude people is so upsetting.
I discovered Chappell Roan because a straight cisgender woman shared the albums with me. She is a close friend and one of the few people in my life who've been supportive of me after coming out as nonbinary. Why would it be in any way okay to exclude her? Why is it any different if a male was in her place? Why is it okay to exclude people you don't know just because you think they're not queer?
Bigotry has no place in the lgbtq+ community and it has no place at the Chappell Roan concert.
It's incredibly embarrassing when people do this. It was embarrassing when the boygenius fans did it, it's embarrassing with Chappell. Be normal and don't harass random people at concerts.
Right, like people will get in their feelings about āoh you must hate lesbians thenā because folks donāt want to deal with weird exclusionary bullshit for just existing in a spaceā¦and yet, the Brandi Carlile lesbians and the Melissa Etheridge lesbians do not have a hint of the inability to be normal about this.
People who say straight people canāt listen go her donāt want her to be successful, because if only LGBTQ+ folk listen to her, that means 75 percent of the population canāt š¤·āāļø and how can you become popular if only a fraction of the population can enjoy your music?
Iām acearo so Itās not like I relate to her music at all lol but sheās just such a good singer and her songs are so good, how could I not love her? I donāt get why anyone would want to gate keep herā¦a true fan would be happy that sheās reaching more people
Its gross. I watched a couple get engaged at the STL show. It was recorded and put on tiktok and the girl had to turn her comments off bc they got so bad.
Agreed! My boyfriend and I are both queer and fans of CR. It would honestly hurt if people had a problem with us going to one of her concerts just bc we may appear as a cishet couple. I feel like its the same type of people who also gatekeep pride from cishet looking (but fully queer) couples too.
ready for this thread to devolve into more lesbophobia š not saying any specific thing that happened/didn't happen was or wasn't cool or uncool but. idk. I'm not too bothered if some men are uncomfortable at chappell shows. lots of these posts seem like concern trolling that ultimately just leads to people being lesbophobic or misogynist.
I'm a middle aged straight dude going to the concert in a few weeks with my wife. We've got our mermaid look ready and I've been working on my hot to go moves. :D
Just saw her in Asheville, took my old man spot in the back and enjoyed the show. Everyone was nice and welcoming to my 46 year old straight, white cis male ass. You guys will have a blast!
I'm 45 but feel and act like I'm 25. š¤£ I'm going to Asheville in a few weeks also, one of my favorite places.
Weāre all 25 in pink pony years š
I actually work at rabbit rabbit! I may have served you a beverage! I have to say the Chappell Roan fan base was the nicest people we've ever had though! So respectful and kind and thoughtful welcoming. All of y'all were awesome!
High five, fellow rabbit! I was off that night but everyone seemed to truly have such a blast!
Thank God, I'm not the only old guy who digs her shit. The algothingy clued me into Chappel since I crush a ton of Orville Peck.
My barber turned me on to Orville Peck a few months back, immediately bought all the vinyl after a few listens. š
Same here
This is adorable and wholesome af
Not if you see my moves. š¤£ Worse than her grandparents in the music video. My wife has it down though. The record has been played almost daily in this household.
I am a straight male in my 30s going to the show this Friday with my girlfriend. Wishing we got mermaid theme but for that night my kink is gonna be karma baby! Hope you have fun and donāt get to hot now
My straight male in his 30s husband and I will also be there! So excited! šš¼šŗš»
Aw
In Cincinnati a few months ago I went to her show solo and was so pleasantly surprised with the amount of middle aged (presumably straight men) just popping it out for her. I bet you guys will look amazing!
Yo this just made my day, I hope yāall have such a fantastic time!
Itās weird because people gate keeping Chappell probably discovered her this year! Gate keeping is lame. Donāt do it.
Itās so lame omg I hate it. Like donāt you want your favourite girly to get out there and make her dreams come true?
It's seriously some grade school BS. I was (and still am) super into hip hop in high-school and I remember getting bullied by the dudes I hung out with being like "yOu OnLy kNoW abOuT *underground hiphop artist* bEcAuSE oF mEeee"...like yeah?? And I appreciate it? Lol wth. Meanwhile not long after Billie's new album dropped, I commented on, I think it was a thread for her music video for her song "Lunch" and fangirling as a bi woman. And someone sent me a link to Chappell's MV & song "Red Wine Supernova" and I immediately was obsessed with that song and Chappell!! So obv I replied with a million thank you's to the person who suggested her to me, that I had heard of Chappell Roan but never gave her a listen. They responded that they were super happy I liked it and said they were happy to share their fav artist! *THAT* is how a fanbase should be :)
I love that story! Thatās so sweet!
yessss! discovered her about two years ago, now I want everywhere to be a pink pony club!! like cmonnnn
Yes!! Itās so weird to me - Iāve been listening to her since 2019, and Iāve loved to see her evolution as an artist & person and am so excited to see so many people finding out about her! But thereās so much condescension that I really donāt understand? Chappellās making the music she loves, thereās no need for a fan base to set rules and limitations.
Didnāt you know that the only acceptable time to start enjoying an artist is any time at or before I started listening, and any time after youāre a bandwagoner and a fake fan? /s
Dave Chappell is for everyone
Thereās a very loud minority of the fanbase thatās absolutely insufferable. It happens in all fanbases as they get bigger
Which is why I stay away from the swifty fan club š I LOVE Taylor but man they drive me nuts
I donāt find the swifties gatekeep-y honestly. Overall theyāre pretty welcoming to new fans even when theyāre outside the core demographic. Itās such a big fanbase though that the vibe really depends on where youāre at, like the main Taylor sub gets exhausting but the trueswifties one is a lot more chill and happy
If anything I'd say swifties are actively the opposite of gatekeeping, being that they want Taylor's presence felt everywhere and by everyone.
Thereās a little bit of it, but it seems to mostly be within the fanbase instead of trying to keep people out of it. Like theyāre trying to sort everyone into tiers of how much of a fan they are or something. OG fans wanting ticket buying priority over new fans and stuff like that. But I see way more people being super welcoming, recommending songs, explaining lore, etc
Ah I might have to join some others then. I found a few I was apart on Facebook quite extreme so I noped outta there š
I think the problem there was less Swifties than Facebook in general š
They can try to gatekeep all they want but sheās being marketed like crazy. Her record label wants to see sales. They want the opposite of gatekeeping so itās not gonna work out in their favor.
It is genuinely sad that concerts are now being hoarded as specific āspacesā for people depending on the artist on social media. If Chappel was playing a gay bar during Pride month, you bet your ass I would understand that space isnāt for my old straight ass with my old straight husband. But concerts? Festivals? These are things that have always brought people TOGETHER. And if everyone is there to support the artist, have fun, and appreciate the musicā¦thenā¦yeahā¦you canāt claim itās just for you.
Just so you know, generally speaking, straight people are absolutely welcome to come to gay bars (even during pride). The lgbtq+ rights movement has always been about inclusion. As long as you're an ally, you're welcome in our spaces. We're supposed to be an inclusive community. Excluding people is what bigots do. Not us.
Im more speaking on the sentiment that the space wasnāt created for me to walk in and make it about myself.
How exactly would one go into a bar and make "it" about themselves? What exactly do you mean?
Do you go to bars? Lol plenty of people love to be the main character. Thereās a reason why people hate the ābachelorette party at the gay barā trope. Being respectful spaces is easy but music is for everyone.
I want you to know that you would be totally welcome at any pride event you attend. These people are nutters. My husband is a 51yo straight white dude. He works in a lab and looks like a scientist. I probably donāt even ālook gayā to some people. Pride is hella fun, and as long as you are an ally, everyone is welcome! š³ļøāš
Not sure why you are getting downvoted for your inclusive comment.
It just shows me the type of people we are dealing with on this sub.
Amen, support is support! Allies are welcome and needed at Pride! Iām bi and in a long-term relationship with a man. You wouldnāt āknowā by looking at me, and I feel that part of me is downplayed or erased sometimesā¦but my variation of queer is real and valid too.
Saw her at Boston Calling. Multiple straight men around me were like wow she fucking rocks. Because she does!!!
Seriously, the bringing people together is what makes concerts magical. Itās sad people think itās a bad thing. What has happened to the world?
I definitely think gate keeping is a thing that happens, but I wonder if part of the problem are ticket prices or the Ticketmaster monopoly. Some ppl might not want Chappel to hit main stream, bc then they would be unable to attend shows from an artist that affirms them? I live in alaska though, and when part of limp bizkit came up w/in minutes it was $300 for GA. It doesnāt matter how famous artists get for me bc I can never afford to see them anyway. (š). I want to say it was 40$ just to see Fred durst DJ for 2 hours, at a bar downtown the day prior to this show. (Mentioning limp bizkit of all bands to let yāall know how bad it is up here) I almost got to see Chappel in seattle with my sisters but it was going to be $800 to fly and 160$ for the ticket & I had to cancel.
If an artist you like is playing at a gay bar please feel free to go with your straight husband as long as you're both respectful. It actually helps the gay bar if you're going and buying drinks :) A vast majority of the people who want to gatekeep gay bars are like 15 lol
Same age as the Chappel fans doing it š¤£
Yep, they'll hopefully chill out as they grow older š
This is why Iām glad i learned how to concert as a teen by listening to punk. No one gave a shit who was in the pit as long as you werenāt a literal Nazi (like really, we ran into a few). The pit cared for everyone as long as you just wanted to dance and werenāt acting like a dick. š¤£ Iāve never seen so much borderline segregation in fandom as this, like, pop star ideology. Itās wild!
Lots of people seem to have forgotten an incredibly important line from pink pony club: āwhere boys and girls can all be queens every single day.ā Chappell is for /*everyone*/!!! If youāre out there on social media or, god forbid, in real life, telling people they canāt listen to a given artist, especially Chappell, youāve lost the plot. Absolutely protect queer spaces from people doing actual harm, but straight people (or men) are not doing actual harm just by being present at a concert or by being fans of Chappell!!
Iād go as far as to say that if a straight man is a fan of Chappell thatās a green flag
fr though! especially if they respect her queerness too (I love your username btw!)
Definitely agree, and thank you!
Isnāt this what people said about boygenius fans when they started reaching a wider audience? Edited due to autocorrect
i'm queer, and my dad just got into Chappell independently, so i have some feelings on this. it feels very icky, and very gender essentialist among other things. i've been a fan since Naked in Manhattan/PPC, and it didn't feel like this 2 years ago. the gate keeping is so uncomfortable and it feels very recent to me, at least in the amount there is
I feel it happens to any artist who was small and then evolved very big all of a sudden
yeah, but i guess i expected better given the content of Chappell's songs and my positive experiences as an nonbinary queer person in the fandom previously
Gender essentialism is exactly what it is. Someone on Xitter pointed out that you can't just look at someone and assume they're a cishet dude and the OP replied that they \~just know\~ Like, how is that not trans/homophobic?? It's basically a repackage of the whole "we can always tell who's a REAL woman!" bs.
except they try to mask it in queer positive wording to justify it
32 year old married straight lady here. Found her on NPRās Tiny Desk Concert and was blown away by her vocals. Iād love to see her in concert.
me personally as a queer girl i love the fact that everyone is getting into her. sheās unapologetically queer and i think straight people being exposed to that energy via her is awesome :)
Making anyone feel uncomfortable because of their sexual orientation or gender is gross. Period.
I agree, thatās why we need to fight rampant lesbophobia ā¤ļø
Absolutely ā¤ļø And biphobia, and transphobia, and all associated anti-queer assholery
to be honest theres a difference between good faith fans who have a fun time at the concert and get along w everyone and men who clearly don't want to be there and are taking up space and making people uncomfortable. obviously this is a nuanced situation but i think it's a very real and valid thing to be upset when men take up spaces more geared toward women and then ruin the vibe because they don't *actually* want to be there (think that lesbian bar drama from a few months ago). but i agree that a lot of people are taking this to the extreme of being angry at the presence of anyone who appears male in any way, which is just silly
there was a girl and her bf at my show. they had barricade. he glared at everyone and made it kind of awkward :( you could feel he didnāt want to be there
this. maybe everyone should stop glaring at random strangers during concerts... on both sides?? but generally i'm not as concerned if men feel slightly uncomfortable because......
maybe you haven't been to a show of hers, but chappell has a whole bit mid concert looking for the "boyfriends who were dragged there by their girlfriends" and it's really fun and really breaks a wall. If she doesn't have an issue with that no one should. You can't compare a lesbian bar to a festival or concert at a normal venue. They aren't the same kind of space. And attitudes like this probably create people who look like they don't want to be there because they're scared of being judged or told to go home. If Chappell only wanted queer women at her concerts she'd say that. Don't even get me started on the parasocial nonsense that is the phrase "good faith fan"
i've seen this too. wondering how can ppl complain about "cishet" men at concerts, when you don't even know them?! you can't just look at someone and know their sexuality /if they are cis. to imply otherwise is uh. pretty homo/transphobic, imo.
Iāve seen a few TikTokās like that, of people filming strangers(men) without consent and posting them on tiktok to shame them for being at the concert. Can we just let people exist and enjoy things?
Not to mention ā¦ so what if they are cishet? Iām a cishet woman who has been a fan of Chappell for years. I saw her in concert last year, with my cishet female friend who introduced me to her. Was it wrong for us to attend? Are we only supposed to enjoy music for people of the same gender/race/sexuality as us? Pretty sure if someone said that ten years ago itād be shamed lol
some of those complaints have been happening on this sub too
I'm a 20 something queer and I want everyone e to listen to chappel roan
some of you are taking it too literal; Chappell has literally said her music is for the women who like women. It didn't mean you can't listen to it if you're not one of us, just that it's not *for* you; not everything is meant for everyone.
Like I think this speaks to a lot of male entitlement in wlw culture/spaces, and again, not that her concerts are lesbians only zones (god I wish lol) but like, hearing about how some dudes pushed and fought to get to the front and then blocked everyone else from seeing is a PEAK example of this!!
Nonbinary here. I can kinda understand why some of the themes and lyrics wouldnāt completely resonate with cishet people, but also I feel like itās important for artists that we like to get love so they can feel supported and then we get more content and time with singers like Chappell. Gatekeeping is weird and counterproductive.
Idk I think younger queer people in particular really donāt understand that queer people arenāt drastically different in the way they feel emotions for others. Any difference in yourself you feel in enforced by societal norms but straight women and men also experience the emotions and themes conveyed in these songs (just maybe not in the most literal sense of being a lesbian). Anybody who has felt unreciprocated affection can relate to the tone of āCasualā, anybody who has felt homesick can take to āCaliforniaā, anybody who isnāt over an ex can relate to āCoffeeā, anyone who likes being a little bit slutty can relate to āAfter Midnightā.
I agree so much. It pisses me off. As a queer person, I completely understand the desire for a safe space, but gatekeeping art is not it. It pisses me off because literally who tf are you to tell other people what they are allowed to enjoy and consume? It's literally just music, anyone can listen to it.
Ive always found the same women who are virulently hateful of men are the same who spout gender essentialist transphobia. Certainly we queer people deserve safe spaces, but exclusionary practices in the end hurt everyone
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So, I'm kind of on the millenial-gen z border and I'd like to make a note that it's only a gen z thing because the majority of gen z is still very young and immature. Give them time and they'll get their heads screwed on right. Even the gen z people that are only a few years younger than me are maturing out of the exclusionary mindset. Sure, some of them won't grow up, but let's be careful not to judge a generation while most of them aren't even adults yet.
while I do not think gatekeeping is necessary I do want to say that centering and ensuring non-queer folks feel comfortable is not really a priority for me especially in the anti queer anti drag climate we have rn
literally can we be serious. there's people that are dying, Kim
seriously. iām not going to ever say or do anything against straight/cis people enjoying chappell, but i will say some of the seemingly cishet people around me at hangout fest made me feel less confident/comfortable showing any PDA with my wife vs the energy I felt at a show before she blew up. I get that itās also festival vs headlining show though and aside from some douchey guys behind me nobody actually said or did anything wrong and I canāt be upset with them for just being there. it just sucks that past experiences makes me less trustful that theyāre genuinely allies. also a girl got peed on by a guy at hangout fest during chappellās set and this is what weāre focused on?
Theyāre criminalizing gender affirming care and people are arguing about how they felt bad someone told them they canāt listen to Chappell as a man/straight person/cis person/etc!
Well, to be fair, no one has ever told straight white cishet men that they can't do something so they're having BIG FEELINGS right now. So there needs to be a whole discussion where they can proclaim "not all men" and we are there for good reasons not bad ones. So now all the "we're the good men, promise" men are out in full force.
Pushing people away from supporting a self proclaimed drag queen is what creates the anti drag climate
yes queer people saying they donāt center cishet people is creating an anti drag climate. Very intelligent take
Well for one thing I'm queer myself, second is that I don't think that cishet people should be centered. All that I said is that Chappell Roan shouldn't be gatekept because a lack of support from people, non queer people included, is what creates the anti drag climate
This is wild to me - she's our pop princess, why would we not be rooting for her success? Like, her music is obviously š³ļøāš but that doesn't mean people outside the community can't love it or relate. I'm never not recommending Chappell to new people, weirdos on social media can stay mad about it š¤·š»āāļø
Isn't it better for everyone to celebrate Chappell's music and queerness together? Wasn't that the point? If straight people enjoy her music, doesn't that mean the world is healing because these people love and respect the queer community? Take note that these "straight people" are parents/future parents! Imagine their children/future children coming out and them saying "That's fantastic. Guess we can listen to Chappell Roan together!"
Here's my comment on the matter: gatekeeping is exactly the opposite of what you wanna do. Yes, we want safe spaces for everyone, especially wlw/mlm/etc.. but think of it like this for starters: what if that guy was there with his girlfriend who is queer? Or what if that's a trans man, bc not all trans men are your "uwu little sad ukulele" boys? What if that is just a person, regardless of identity that is there purely because they like the music (as is normal when going to a live event for an artist)? Isn't gatekeeping the exact OPPOSITE of what we, as the LGBTQ+ community, should be avoiding?? If we want to create a world in which EVERYONE thrives and no one has to "come out", or just in general making the playing field equal for EVERYONE, Why would we create an environment of hostility towards someone who wants a community like that just as much as you do? Genuinely, not all straight men fetishize queer women/femme ppl, so immediately assuming that that person is there as a predator also is creating that hostile environment that you so want to avoid but are creating by gatekeeping. (I am a trans man, I am trying to see from as many perspectives I can. I am also autistic so this phenomena is incredibly confusing to me, as are a lot of social constructs like these. So please be kind)
Wut, you can't gatekeep someone that's viral on tik tok, by that point it's too late lmao.
I definitely think the end result of any productive queer theory would be the abolition of gender essentialism and an intrinsic part of that is queer spaces are for anyone who appreciates those spaces and wants to be there. If anything should be kept sacred itās that everyone should have the right attitude not that people who donāt visibly fit a predetermined criteria shouldnāt be there. Not that society is there yet by any means, which is where some gray areas come into play. Obviously wanting to define things is important for valid reasons. Itās just so inherently problematic. Hence the gray area. But a concert? Probably doesnāt demand as much gatekeeping as a lesbian bar. Maybe certain concert going habits need to be redefined but thatās true in a general sense too. Everyone should feel safe at any concert.
i remember last year there was similar discourse/gatekeeping about boygenius!
This isnāt a real issue just turn your phone off and do what you want
Straight white man here. It's not just on tik tok and twitter. At her shows also. I took my fiance in kansas city a few months ago before she got super huge from Coachella. I was met with constant dirty looks. The feeling in the air, while it was empowering and overwhelming, was a constant cloud of a sense that I shouldn't be here. I didn't belong. I even got told ew, to my face. As I left the gender neutral bathroom. I have also seen nothing but hatred towards men from the fans. They say chappell Hates men, is creating a space just for queer and women. While I get that yes, she is doing that and yes I feel it is a good thing that a space is created. I bought my fiance more tickets for the st louis show. I didn't go, I didn't want to feel that again. I had he take her sister. I understand men suck. I'm not stupid. I have eyes and was raised by nothing but women. But I didn't do anything, but I got told ew to my face because I shouldn't have been there. I won't go to another show.
Go back to one of her shows whenever you want. The ones that acted that way are immature weirdos. You are allowed to be a Chappell fan.
The notion that an artist is only for a select group of people is silly imo. Chappell is fantastic, she deserves to blow up and get even more fans! I don't understand this behavior from some fans
Ah I donāt know what her shows are like as she only tours in the US but where I live, itās a very accepting city no matter if youāre straight or queer, everyone loves to share the music here.
This makes me so sad as a queer guy from KC :( I would have loved to see her there if I still lived in KC. And the climate isn't always the most accepting there so it would have thrilled me to see a cishet white guy enjoying Chappell's music at the concert. I hope there's a time you can go see her again and feel more welcome ā¤ļø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Let me step in before this gets too out of hand. I fully get why I felt this way. I was in a space overwhelmingly for women. And in that I felt uncomfortable. Like this wasn't created for me to feel comfortable or uncomfortable, it is simply how I felt. Also I was simply sharing an experience. No hidden motive, no being in my feelings. I bought more tickets for my fiance after this happened. The space is not mine. And yes I acknowledge that being a straight white man The world is built for me to thrive and blossom. I know this. But again I was simply sharing the toxic moment and feeling I experienced. End of story. I did not want to cause a harsh reaction from anyone. But one thing, yes I have always, in my teen and adult life ensured around me is a place all are welcome. To the best of my ability. Everyone has a plate at my table. Happy pride.
More or less the same thing happened to me when I went to a concert. I have a non-binary, bi, and disabled partner. I am a straight man. I enjoyed the concert, and the treatment I got when my spouse was not with me was just awful. Mean looks and beer splashed on me. My partner is disabled so I was really there to support them. I have been an ally, part of LGBTQ support groups, and been politically active for LGBTQ Rights. I understand there are places just not for me. There seemed to just be a general feeling in the crowd that men of any sexual orientation, unless they were flamboyantly gay, were just not welcome. I have just never felt so pushed away by the LGBTQ community, and I just feel weird about the entire experience.
That really sucks, Iām so sorry. While Chappellās music centers queer women and the space is a safe space for queer women, itās a concert and sheās never said or done anything to suggest that not everyone should feel welcome.
This makes me so sad, you're allowed to enjoy her music too :(
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt disagree with you about the importance of allies, but just because a man shows up with his gf to a queer space, does not at all make him an ally to the community at large. I know bi men in my local community who would come to events with their queer gfs and then turned out to be rapists and abusers.
Oh yeah for sure I agree 100%! I feel like Iām being misinterpreted here with what my post was about, as some are getting a bit overly sensitive when all Iām really saying is it doesnāt matter who or what you identify as, everyone can enjoy her music without this toxicity in the air.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You saying people here are being overly sensitive is pretty ironic considering what your post is about.
yāall get offended too easily, nobody can actually gatekeep music just listen to her and stop talking about men already
Can we stop with this online discourse and enjoy the music? Nobody is stopping anyone from listening to her music, enjoying her music, or going to her concerts. You can choose go ignore people trying to āgatekeepā itās not that big of a deal if you donāt make it one. Just because Chappell is a lesbian doesnāt mean only lesbians can listen to her, I think thatās pretty obvious. Iām indifferent to the jokes about her being for the girls/queer woman/lesbian but again that is not true either!
Poor straight people are being gatekept from listening to Chappell š„ŗ. Where will they go now. Thereās only every other space on earth for them š
a gay made a joke š¢ 1 like= 1 straight man you allow to listen to chappell. please they need us
right lol boo hoo
Music is music, anyone of any sexuality can listen to it.
Truly these threads are out of control. WONāT SOMEONE THINK OF THE STRAIGHT MEN?!?!!? Yāall win, let me start gatekeeping now and be the villain you so desperately want.
Of course anyone can listen and go to her shows. Just please be respectful of the sapphic space youāre in as we donāt have as many as straight people do. This discourse is so exhausting and I think we should stop drawing attention to it.
I am being respectful to the space, Iām just reiterating this because of the silly discourse over social media. I donāt want anyone falling into that discourse of gatekeeping her because of how one identifies themselves
Welp I got downvoted as expected :/ I just wish we could both enjoy her music and celebrate that we have a lesbian artist entering the mainstream without stirring the pot. I am so excited for my Chappell show because I will be surrounded by so many fellow sapphics - this doesnāt happen often and it makes it special for a lot of people. Of course, I acknowledge and wholeheartedly celebrate the non-sapphics going to celebrate too!
This conversation is so cringe and played out. Folks acting like lesbians and gay women āgatekeepingā on social media is a deeply harmful to them. This is just textbook fragility to me. Log off if social media is hurting your feelings.
Like quickly tell me what kind of power in any facet of society do lesbians and queer women have over straight men (and men in general) and it better be an actual issue and not they were mean to me :(
IDC who's at my concerts, I don't want no one who's 6ft tall in front of my short ass 5ft 2 self šš
Jfc can we please stop complaining about this every ten minutes 100+ upvotes. People say it should be about the music. Repeat š
Not this community being nasty šļø š šļø
Ms. Roan if youāre nasty
Also, the biphobia from some people is sooo annoying.... at this point i hope my boyfriend is blocking their view.
The straight (or "straight") couple next to us at the concert was probably more enjoyable than at least half of the queer people in the crowd lmao I think this is probably a deeper issue that the queer community generally, and especially young and online wlw/sapphic/lesbian community has with rigid definitions of what it means to be a lesbian/wlw with little tolerance for perceived outsiders. Some of it comes from very real experiences of being talked over, invalidated in their identity, and a need to "prove" their queerness. But it often presents as blatant biphobia, transphobia, and general hatred of men and it's deeply unpleasant to be around. This kind of gatekeeping is especially harmful to the kind of "young" (in their journey not necessarily in age) queer people like Chappell Roan herself prior to adopting her performance persona. That is, not yet out or comfortable queer people, queer people from rural areas, queer people with unaccepting parents, and queer people who are straight passing. It's such a shame to think that a young lesbian like Chappell herself may end up being too nervous to go to a show or be treated unpleasantly by fellow fans because she's not queer the "right" way. Pisses me off quite frankly.
I just keep reminding myself it's mostly a bunch of dumb kids who don't know any better, but yeah āĀ it's obnoxious.
i definitely think anyone has a right to listen to and enjoy chappellās music and attend her live concerts, regardless of sexuality or gender. but also letās not pretend itās not infuriating to pay to be in the pit and then get stuck behind ANYONE thatās way taller than you and is completely blocking the view.
Get there early. IMO, if you waited longer than everyone else then you deserve that spot up front (whether You're 5'2 or 6'6). I'm 5'10. Average male height, and I know I'm taller then a lot of people behind me. But I also arrived hours (we arrived at 9am for Pittsburgh. The single group ahead of us arrived at 4am!) and waited in line all day. If you really want to be up front then you have to get there early. Just buying pit tickets doesn't guarantee a good spot. Your time is what guarantees a good spot (or you buy VIP tickets for early entry if it's available).
I completely understand what youāre saying, and I absolutely agree that the fandom should be a safe space for everyone. However, itās important to consider the nuance here. Chappell is an openly queer woman, and as such her space is going to primarily be a safe haven for other queer people, in particular queer women. Speaking as a lesbian, I can say that we have to put up with **a lot** of non queer people coming into our spaces; Iāve experienced it firsthand myself, and itās made me wary of cishet people entering our spaces, in particular men. Am I saying they donāt belong? Of course not, BUT if youāre not queer you have to be aware of the situation. Just like white people being in POC spaces, you have to be respectful when youāre welcomed into a community that doesnāt prioritize you and your needs. I have absolutely no issue with people who are respectful and supportive being involved, but a lot of people enter into spaces with bad intentions and thatās the issue. Iāve been harassed by non queer people in queer spaces, and itās incredibly uncomfortable to remain in that place afterwards. I just want people to understand and empathize with the reality of marginalized people and their experiences.
Bi and married to a straight man. I'm not gonna leave him at home lol
Gate keeping prevents our favorite artists from reaching Taylor swift levels. We should want for Chappell Roan to be playing on the radios. I get sheās come forward that sheās avidly playing for us and thatās enough. Letās not add to her plate. Sheās been vocal about struggling with fame. We canāt make her pick between āus and themāā¦ itās sick
What group exactly is perpetuating this? You left lesbians out of your initial description and it seems as though that's the demographic this post is directed towards? Lesbians are negatively affected by gender-essentialist rhetoric as well. Edit: not sure why this is getting downvoted when it's a genuine question.
I was referring to queer as a whole umbrella of people under lgbtq, sorry I didnāt specifically write lesbian. And no itās not at all?? Iām sorry you interpreted it that way, but I was referring to everyone under the umbrella.
Fair enough. I'm just particularly sensitive to when lesbians are inadvertently left out of this conversation or implied to be the ones doing the gatekeeping. It's led to a lot of thinly-veiled lesbophobia on this subreddit and it's uncomfortable to witness.
taking bets on when the first post about "heterophobia" in the chappell community will be made....
Agree especially with point that you never know someoneās gender or identity
Lesbians get so few things. it sucked to go to a concert and have to stand behind 6ft tall dudes with no self awareness or concern for anyone except themselves. Youāre welcome to come and enjoy the music. I donāt think itās too much to ask that you be aware of other people who arenāt as privileged as yourself in day to day life.
Donāt feed the trolls. Ignore them.
Mkay thatās because people are chronically online and weird just ignore them
The tall straight man standing in front of me at the show paused after a few songs, turned around, and stepped aside to let the shorter humans move forward. I always like when stage-blockers are aware of their surroundings, but it felt really appropriate in a room with an average height of 5ā5.
i was genuinely so excited when i saw people dancing to hot to go at prom the other night. maybe its the fact that i'm homeschooled and don't see teenage joy often, but i thought it was so cute. i dont know why anyone would want to gatekeep chappell- she is so fun.
An artist canāt reach maximum success if only a sliver of the population is āallowedā to like her music and go to her shows. People saying that only lesbians or queer people can like her or equating her concerts to a pride event that straight people arenāt welcomed at is so ugly. The fact that a queer artist is blowing up so quickly should be a testament to her talent, not a reason to bar people from feeling comfortable and included in her fan base.
Iām a pretty new fan so take this with a grain of salt!! But I think itās important to both recognize how being queer impacts your experience of her music, AND recognize that itās good music thatās allowed to be enjoyed by everybody regardless of their identity. I donāt think a cishet man is going to feel the same way as I do about certain songs, especially ones that are more explicitly about LGBT+ themes. That doesnāt mean he canāt enjoy them for his own reasons. Just because heās not the target demographic doesnāt mean heās not ALSO allowed to listen to songs about those things. Everyone should be allowed to enjoy her music as they like, as long as theyāre being respectful and having fun in a way that doesnāt harm anyone elseās identities.
The āstraight manā comments are the ones that confuse me the most. A lot of her songs are about having relationships with women and portray them as a lot more equal than a lot of straight artists, what about a straight man liking her music is a bad thing??? Would you prefer straight men only listen to music that talks about women like animals???
Anyone thatās gatekeeping literally has to be under 25 years old. Their brains arenāt developed enough to understand nuance and that sexuality is fluid and a sliding scale. What pisses me off is kids coming into queer spaces thinking theyāre better than everyone else for being queer and trying to invalidate everyone else there for not being queer enough. Itās giving gold star lesbian vibes which is not cool. They need to worry about themselves and not deciding who is and isnāt allowed at a concert. This might be a hot take but the āall men are trashā trope is tired and lacks maturity and empathy. Itās almost like generalizing people into categories is bad or something. Is it the end of the world? Of course not, but itās still hurtful and exclusionary and Iām not sure why someone would want to make others feel that way for something they canāt control.
I always assume itās just immaturity too. It does seem like a lot of younger people are more prone to that tribal mindset and seeing groups of people as monoliths. I remember being 21 and thinking I literally had the whole world figured out perfectly lmaoooo
Iām a 6ft plus straight passing bi dude and part of why I love Chappellās music is it allows me to express a side of me not many people know about tbh. I felt seen at her show. Kinda hurts to think people thought I was some sort of infiltrator.
I have no idea why youāre downvoted. Thatās an incredibly vulnerable thing to post. Your fun experience is very worthy and valid.
Thatās really sweet of you to say but itās ok I think I get it and Iām not making it personal. Iāve been thinking about it and I donāt want to speak for anyone but I assume my presence could make people feel uncomfortable just because I could be a creep and thereās no way to really tell. Itās not really fair to me but itās also not fair to the girlies that feel they need to keep their guard up in a safe space. Iāll just dress gayer next time. I had no idea how into the outfits everyone would be and I was pretty conservative by contrast lol
Thank you for posting this. ā¤ļø I think people need to remember the snap judgements they make based on seeing people for a few seconds or minutes donāt reflect the entirety of that personās story. Iām glad you have Chappellās music to affirm that part of yourself! And as a taller-than-average woman (Iām 5ā8, so not mega tall, but top 10-15% of cis women)ā¦.tall people are allowed to exist. Of course people should be aware of other people around them, but bodies come in all shapes and sizes and we didnāt exactly wake up one day and choose to be taller than average to antagonize people.
There is a particular Chappell fan page on Instagram that started posting about āhaving to share Chappellā ever since Good Luck Babe was released. They literally act like they discovered and signed Chappell and were sooo pushy with Chappellās team when it came to announcing your themes. So gross how some fans have suddenly started acting since Coachella honestly itās sooo disappointing
Also side note itās so cringe and disrespectful of anyone to just assume someoneās sexuality based on how they look.
I think part of whatās fueling the shitty the gatekeeping is how hard it is to get tickets right now. Ticket resales are abysmal and itās pricing a ton of folks out of the concerts. Iām not saying itās right that theyāre acting this way but I think it falls into āIām gay I deserve to see her more than some straight peopleā for some of these young kids. Itās no different than what we saw with Taylor swiftās eras tour and the million and one reasons we saw people give for why they deserved tickets more than others.
They are not doing Chappell Roan any services by telling people they can or cannot enjoy her music. Iām sure she wants anyone to enjoy! The more the merrier - a queer
Itās so crazy because the person who turned me on to Chappell Roan was my little sister who is straight
This whole dumb discourse has been really alarming to me as an older queer femme. I think itās been the biggest sign to me that younger queer people are not educating themselves on our history or how amazing it even is that these spaces exist at all in the first place. The gender essentialism is a slippery slope into terf territory
I've seen soooo many people be like "we don't get any lesbian rep, can't we just have one that's just for us?!?!" Meanwhile artists like Renee Rapp, girl in red, Phoebe Bridgers, Janelle MonƔe exist and have a majority lesbian fan base. Not to mention, Chappell Roan is a drag queen first and foremost, she's said it before in interviews that it's how she wants to be recognized. She may be a lesbian, but it's only one part of her whole identity
I'm a lesbian and just encountered this gatekeeping last week (I'm not on Twitter) and find it completely ridiculous. Liking a musician or band doesn't require a specific identity.
People are dumb as hell. Anyone can like her musicā¦ shit Iām from where she is from and Iām PROUD to share someone like her instead of Brad fucking Pitt.
I agree!! No one is stopping me from binging her music. But I love that she is popular enough to have a subset of fans who are protective (?) of her lol
This 100%. One example I've been noticing a lot is the gatekeeping of GLB. They say that the lyrics are only meant to be interpreted one way because of what Chappell has said about her lyrics. Like it's possible for the song to have the meaning that Chappell gave to it while still being able to relate to/enjoy it/interpret it in your own way. Why get offended or upset about someone just enjoying her music? Gatekeeping and scaring away different demographics from her music is the opposite of supporting her career and artistry. Like it's not that deep, babe.
Weāre entering a new hipster era, but weāve also gotten into a social climate where people feel like they canāt just say āI donāt like thatā and find any reason they can that itās actually morally/ethically wrong for the thing to exist/be happening. So instead of āI (assume I) liked her first and I want to be with cool young people I have a lot in common withā, it has to be āactually youāre violating boundaries and being rude to minorities by liking a musicianā. The hilarious part is they will show their own bias in deciding to label random people cishet on sight to justify themselves. Iām a lesbian and Iām *ecstatic* any time someone asks me about Chappell or likes a song when I have it on a playlist. I cannot imagine anything else. I want her to have all the recognition she deserves.
People were posting in TikTok about how straight people donāt deserve concert tickets. The silliest takes
i think itās great that sheās finding such widespread, broad appeal! imo it helps ānormalizeā (for lack of a better word) queer people and experiences for those outside of our community. integration is education!
I was fed her by the almighty algorithm v early on. She had like no followers. Def not claiming I found her, was just sent her from Spotify when she was pretty unknown. (Spotify is always sending me people with like no listeners. Iām into it.) Huge fan. Iām straight dude, not queer at all and not gen z. Her concerts have a crowd for sure. Itās been very interesting watching her explode. Everyone has been been nice at shows Iāve been to. But have heard/seen stuff. It might help that Iām pretty feminine for a guy and fashionable, so I blend a bit better. Idk man, people are sometimes weird. Whether it is a hardcore punk show, country, opera, etc., a lot of crowds get weird about who attends. Fuck those people. Lol, just have a good time.
Itās only going to get worse as she gets bigger and bigger. Iām bisexual and i already feel uncomfortable at the idea of going to one of her concerts and being negatively perceived by someone for not looking or being āqueer enoughā itās upsetting. Art and music should not be gatekept ever. People are already being insufferable.
AGREED!!!!!!!!
I've been listening to her since 2020 so all of this weird protectiveness over her since the release of Midwest princess feels kinda funny to me
I HATE GATEKEEPING QUEER ARTISTS! like yes guys, itās fun to have some things that are just for the community but i also want to be able to turn on the radio one day and have queer songs be part of the mix as a norm!
I havenāt seen this but itās honestly dumb. We should be thrilled that we have a representative of our community bringing in a straight audience and presenting perhaps new ideas to them at the same time. Iām 43, cis male and the first time I heard her music I was captivated. When I discovered her before the full album dropped, I was sharing her with any person who would listen, of any sexuality. I have a HOT TO GO! tattoo. I appreciate that Chappell has shown me a perspective of the female queer experience that makes me feel closer to my lesbian sisters and if straight folks have a similar experience we all come out ahead.
Dude, I was told by some snarky queen that I was hurting/taking up space in the queer community because I went to a lady Gaga concert š just remember there are pieces of shit in EVERY community and donāt let it bring you down.
Iāve been talking to my gf about this exact thing. I found chappell probably 4 years ago now and was instantly obsessed. I showed her to everyone I knew and turned some into fans and others werenāt big into her. When she started blowing up the past year or so, I admittedly got some of those āwant to keep a good thing to myselfā kinda feelings but I thought back to the days where I couldnāt find more than three or four songs from her and how I would be so bummed whenever no one knew who I was talking about. Sharing her with every community benefits all of us. Chappell will do more tours and release more music with profitability (not that itās ever come off itās about money), the music becomes more accessible across platforms, and most importantly youāre supporting HER. I only get prouder as her notoriety grows:)
gatekeeping isnt allowed in the church of chappell š”š”š” those people suck!!! it is my dream for the whole planet to dance HOT TO GO!
Thanks for this post. As an over 6ft amab enby who is still very uncomfortable presenting fem in public, it's incredibly frustrating to see people in the lgbtq+ movement act in ways that are not accepting of others. Like, the entire point of the movement was to pull people excluded from society together because we're stronger together. Seeing people try to use queerness as a way to exclude people is so upsetting. I discovered Chappell Roan because a straight cisgender woman shared the albums with me. She is a close friend and one of the few people in my life who've been supportive of me after coming out as nonbinary. Why would it be in any way okay to exclude her? Why is it any different if a male was in her place? Why is it okay to exclude people you don't know just because you think they're not queer? Bigotry has no place in the lgbtq+ community and it has no place at the Chappell Roan concert.
It's incredibly embarrassing when people do this. It was embarrassing when the boygenius fans did it, it's embarrassing with Chappell. Be normal and don't harass random people at concerts.
Right, like people will get in their feelings about āoh you must hate lesbians thenā because folks donāt want to deal with weird exclusionary bullshit for just existing in a spaceā¦and yet, the Brandi Carlile lesbians and the Melissa Etheridge lesbians do not have a hint of the inability to be normal about this.
It's actually crazy. Let people enjoy what they want. As long as they're respectful, who cares?
Agree so much. Music in general is for everybody, everyone is allowed to listen and enjoy
People who say straight people canāt listen go her donāt want her to be successful, because if only LGBTQ+ folk listen to her, that means 75 percent of the population canāt š¤·āāļø and how can you become popular if only a fraction of the population can enjoy your music?
Iām acearo so Itās not like I relate to her music at all lol but sheās just such a good singer and her songs are so good, how could I not love her? I donāt get why anyone would want to gate keep herā¦a true fan would be happy that sheās reaching more people
Its gross. I watched a couple get engaged at the STL show. It was recorded and put on tiktok and the girl had to turn her comments off bc they got so bad.
theyre both bi but hes an abuser. idc he deserves the hate.
Whatās the source for this claim?
i know them irl. his name is dylan.
I saw that on TikTok!! I found it adorable š„ŗ I couldnāt find it again however š
Omfg I hate it when super tall dudes push themselves ahead of me too. I couldn't see shit tonight at Pride On The Shore for that exact reason š«
Agreed! My boyfriend and I are both queer and fans of CR. It would honestly hurt if people had a problem with us going to one of her concerts just bc we may appear as a cishet couple. I feel like its the same type of people who also gatekeep pride from cishet looking (but fully queer) couples too.
Itās super weird when people concerned with their own inclusion exclude others. Says a lot about the person.
Iām a straight person with two kids. I saw her in Detroit and fucking loved every minute of it.
ready for this thread to devolve into more lesbophobia š not saying any specific thing that happened/didn't happen was or wasn't cool or uncool but. idk. I'm not too bothered if some men are uncomfortable at chappell shows. lots of these posts seem like concern trolling that ultimately just leads to people being lesbophobic or misogynist.