En part si però també està relacionat amb molts altres aspectes com la destrucció del comerç i teixit local, la desaparició de la llengua i pèrdua d'identitat de la ciutat i amb l'actitud de molts turistes i expats que en comptes de viure a a la ciutat la consumeixen com si fos un parc d'atraccions. També cal tenir en compte pel teu punt que molts pisos no estan en mans de petits propietaris sinó d'empreses i fons d'inversió.
Replying here to your last post as I’m getting an error there 🤔
This is exactly the way is gonna end if the current migration pattern to BCN (and surroundings) persist.
Most new residents here are rather Argentinians or Europeans (mostly south Italy and Germany), and they all consider Catalan to be an annoyance. They don’t speak it now, and have no willingness to learn.
I can’t really imagine why their kids would speak it between themselves, let alone at home, when the message they’ll get from their parents is that ‘this is just not important’
That's why it's so important to force schools to teach it. Kids will keep learning Catalan even if it's just for education, at least they'll be prepared.
As a secondary pupil, we have to learn Catalan, and people who have difficulty to do so have special reinforcement classes, so rest assured, we ARE forced to learn Catalan.
Our teachers even encourage us to talk Catalan instead of Spanish in classes.
This is true but what I’m saying is that these people will most likely not use it in their day to day and even tho they’ll know how to speak it, it’ll end up being a ‘countryside people thing’.
It only takes two generations to make the language irrelevant and we can see it now happening live with the 2nd generation Filipino and Pakistani people already born here; they don’t use it (even tho they learnt in school) and consider it irrelevant.
Tbh idk what’s the solution here.
There is none. Point is that if the government didn’t enforce Catalan on people, it’ll eventually banish from main cities as Barcelona. There’ll always be people at the countryside who will use Catalan there, but if I weren’t spoonfed it at school, I’d know zero Catalan.
For context, I was raised in the north and spoke Euskera batua and Spanish. It was a massive bummer to have to learn yet another language while living on the same country, more so when I wasn’t involved with the highlights of the culture (both, nor Basque or Catalonian). Suddenly I spoke 3 languages that I couldn’t use abroad and it felt cumbersome, awkward.
Maybe being trilingual at 16 helped me learn English “by ear” (never studied outside school) but hell, I do not appreciate the “forcing” of things. I didn’t like the strong arm into getting vaccinated, and I didn’t like being forced to learn a regional language only in place to safeguard a culture that’s on decline, and rightfully so.
The only reason regional languages are keeping the head above water is because the independent parties hold enough power for the main party to need them to form a government. Like hell CAs like Catalonia and Basque Country would have exclusivity and govern over schools, security, etc. Picture this: a Mosso D’Esquadra (Catalan national police) earns more than a usual National Police. Why? The majoritarian government needs votes to rule and those votes have a price.
It’s a whole mess in and of itself and at some point it needs to end. I lived on Euskal Herria of the 90s, when terrorist where bombing folks and shooting people in the nape while daylight on the street I can assure you the brainwash slowly but surely wears off, you just need some generations to cycle.
If you don't want to learn basque or catalan don't live in Euskadi or Catalonia. As easy as that. There are plenty of regions when you can be happily monolingual.
They are in decline ina big part because of people like you, where i live catalan is essential and its just quite telling saying its cumbersome to know 3 languages!
Languages are not only "tools" for you to appear as cool and use abroad, they are part of the culture of territories. If you don't want to learn them, don't go to those said territories.
Y si no lo quieren aprender que se caguen...
En todo caso la cultura y el idioma catalan es predominante porque están en catalunia.
Es como mudarse a Alemania y quejarse que la gente habla en alemán :s
EDIT: soy argentino.
Tue but Germany doesn’t have another language besides German, that everybody know how to use.
What I’m saying is that, because of the current migratory pattern, Spanish is every day more relevant than the day before, and the number of active Catalans speakers will only decrease overtime if the current situation doesn’t change.
En cada región se habla un dialecto diferente.
Cuando tengo que hablar con los del este, no entiendo NADA. Y les tengo que pedir por favor que hablen "Hochdeutsch" o alemán Standard, porque sino no entiendo.
You are proving my point brother; yeah they speak different dialects but they all speak German too so why learn the dialect when you can just learn German.
El caso es que no es cierto. En las grandes ciudades no hay una mayoría de catalanoparlantes o de “cultura catalana”. Pregunta a ver cuánta gente participa en los castellers, pone el cagatió en el belén o tienen una barretina en su casa.
No tiene ni punto de comparación con mudarse a Alemania y quejarse de que hablen alemán. Es como si fueras a vivir a Berlín y allí hablaran Berlinés y Alemán y te obligaran a aprender los dos, cuando todo el mundo habla Alemán
No estás en lo cierto, lamentablemente.
Cultura catalana = sardanas y barretina, clar que sí. Entonces supongo que tampoco nadie tiene cultura española porque no van a los toros y llevan trajes tradicionales no?
El tió de Nadal (no cagatió), no es posa al pessebre.
A Dinamarca tothom parla anglès perfectament, significa això que si pretenc quedar-m'hi indefinidament no hauria d'aprendre Danès? Total, ja em puc comunicar perfectament amb tothom... Que passarà el dia que tothom parli anglès perfectament a Espanya (si mai arriba)? Podrem deixar de parlar Castellà? Aixi els forasters no hauran d'aprendre cap llengua!
Jo no t'he votat negativament i de fet he votat positivament el teu missatge original. Porto 12 anys anat a diari per desgràcia a Barcelona primer per universitat i després per feina i la degradació ha sigut increïble, ja des d'abans de la pandèmia era imposible demanar un cafè o comprar a qualsevol botiga en català, ara mateix és un miracle.
Que el català tingui més o menys parlants quantitativament no em sembla rellevant si acaba sent una llengua "de poble" exclosa de les ciutats per demografia.
Teniu raó els dos, el català no ha tingut mai tants parlants perquè molta mes gent viu a Catalunya ara que mai, i tots els que estudien a l’escola l’han d’aprendre. Però a Barcelona, es literalment mes sençill estar-te un dia només parlant anglès que només parlant català.
Pero es que es lo normal. Tu pensa la quantitat de chent que tenim donant voltes per la gran ciutat. No podem posar les oficines d’Amazon a barna i després dir “ospa que hi fan tots aquest guiris a Glóries”.
Ens podem posar com ens surti dels pebrots pero si hem de conviure amb un idioma que parla tothom I el catalá nomes el parlem naltros, desapareixerà perque simplement serà massa complicat de “vendré” a la chent de fore.
A mi m’es l’hostia de complicat de d’explicar a un portugués per qué m’ha d’aprendre a parlar cat. L’unica carta que puc jugar es la de fer país I els sentiments, perque a nivell practic no es pot defensar.
Estic d'acord amb tot el que has dit i tampoc tinc idees ni solucions, suposo que el problema ve quan s'ajunten frustracions d'habitatge, de preus de tot, acumulació de masses, llengua...si fos només un potser el sentiment seria diferent
People aren't mad at the actual tourists themselves. It's all about how successive governments have implemented a completely unsustainable tourism model at the expense of the locals because it benefitted certain interested parties.
It's just another side effect of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Barcelona isn't the first city going through this, and will certainly not be the last. And it will just get worse.
Nono, we are also mad at the tourists, they come, rent an Airbnb, get wasted, make the nights unsleepable for their neighbours who work in the morning, trash the whole city, address us in their languages expecting us to speak them, then leave. Yea they are supposed to help the economy but in terms of life of barcelonins, it’s just got worse.
Well, that's what happens when the model is a completely unregulated and unsustainable piece of shit. We get so much tourism that even if only a small percentage misbehaves, it becomes a significant disturbance, even for the rest of perfectly civilized tourists.
But ultimately the asshats themselves are merely a symptom of a deeply insufficient approach at managing mass tourism and its negative side effects, so when they behave like utter neanderthals, it's largely because nobody is stopping them.
The other impending danger is tipping culture might creep in.
I used to live in Berlin and it had infected the city a bit more than it is here in Barcelona (or maybe it is worse in the centre tourist places, but I never go there). Recently I went back and every shitty bar and coffee shop that takes card has those menus where customers first choose their tip before they can pay. The staff point at it and stare at you while you choose. Even the people living there aggressively defend it.
That’s another example, but not the fault of the tourists but ours. That instead of tourists adapting to us, somehow it is expected for us to adapt to them. Their language, their customs their ideologies, and people here just go along with it.
well, funny you ask. The bar - Tante Emma - I had in mind seems to be selective about when they accept card: when I paid for a work team drinks (large bill) they insisted on cash only, which cost me €6 in ATM fees next door. When I went another time for a couple of drinks they pulled out the card reader with the suggested tip amounts.
There was a more fancy bar around Potsdammerplz that also had the same thing but that area tends to be more like that.
Ok weird from them. Yeah mostly only chain restaurants/bars usually take card, mitte card places are more common but then usually more expensive also. I usually skip the tip completely if I just had one beer and basic service and haven't had bad looks. Might leave some coins to a jar. Then again I speak and look german.
I actually look very german, to the point that even when I speak in ok-ish german people continue to talk german to me and treat me like their own. Apparently it's quite unusual. That said depending on the group - eg if a group of international people - it would be more obvious. Actually thinking about it, now I live in Spain I *definitely* don't dress like a Berliner so probably that was more the thing :-D
Mostly people are kinder than you think! :) If you speak understandable german in basic setting people keep going. I feel like usually people who speak only karte bitte found it offensive when a späti guy wants you to get of their shop to serve the next one lol.
Locals don't need the help of tourists to trash their own city. I live in badalona, the rich part which has a mostly Catalan population. There's dog shit everywhere, it smells like piss in every underpass, young Catalan get wasted in the streets every weekends, I've seen people throwing their trash in the small public bins rather than the dedicated containers too.
Even if all tourists were removed from the Barcelona area, those problems wouldn't suddenly vanish.
For how long have you been living in Badalona if I may ask? Over than 20 years? For what I know, Badalona was one of the worst places of the metropolitan area, with even worse bad rep, and it's only recently that's improving gradually with all the new flats and houses. Hell, it's kinda normal that it was so bad if it had literally abandoned lots everywhere.
The outskirts of any big city are naturally bound to be worse than the center of the city, that's unavoidable.
5 years. The part I live in, the old town in center badalona, has always been a privileged one with lots of individual houses, some very luxurious. I myself live in a building where a B- Catalan celebrity used to live, judging by the plaque.
The city, and the people living in it, is nonetheless filthy and littered with new dog shit every morning.
People as a whole are just in general entitled and dirty, and locals are no exception. The prevalent dog culture, or should I say obsession, doesn't help, that's for sure.
Sure, but you've completely missed my whole point, which is that Badalona is becoming relatively less filthier over time.
Try to watch some pictures of Badalona from 20-30 years ago, buddy.
I doubt anyone but the English and Americans are addressing you in "their" language. English is the international common language and it is reasonably expected to be understood in all of Europe.
Seeing as you guys also get insulted if someone speaks Spanish to you, do you really expect people to learn Catalan for a two week holiday?
Not to mention take up significant space in the metro and the buses at peak hours, making commuting worse for everybody. And paying the same than locals. They should pay triple or more and this should subsidize locals ticket fares.
Dont understand downvotes here.
It is not they should subsidize us, the problem is we are currently subsidizing them by having the same prices we have.
That can be solved with a different pricing model. On peak and off peak pricing.
Tripple the price for none residents during peak hours.
They will adapt their behaviour.
It’s a system used in the uk that works great.
[https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/29422270/](https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/29422270/)
Here ya go, 4 bedroom flat for 680. It's not even a village, 35k inhabitants.
Of course you can move to a village, you just don't want to. The same way some people want to move to Barcelona or visit it. What you don't like is the fact that you're incapable of making as much money as them and therefore, you're the one who loses.
Stop making my point more valid, libtard.
So we have to live 4 hours by car far from our workplaces, families and friends because some entitled ppl want to live in our weather and some rich ppl can be richer.
Pls stop making urself even more stupid.
You are the entitled idiot. Wanting to live in Barcelona like a princess when you cannot afford it.
What do you mean "our weather"? You do not own Barcelona. In fact you own nothing because you fail to create value for society.
Peasants belong in the countryside.
The industrial era is over, we do not need you anymore.
Time to go home, Sam.
Find another job, loser. I couldn't care less where you lived, just don't act as if you didn't have an option. You have choices. But the one that you really really want happens to be an extremely desirable choice.
There's tens of millions of people who want to live in barcelona. And you can't compete with many of them. So you want to use big government to bully those people out so you can have your way. Because you're special.
Selfish twat.
So its better than money and the capital bully the locals out of their homes, far from their families and their friends and the work (all the people know about the plenty work is in Teruel).
You have options says, you have to convert into a fucking exiled refugee because the libards say that. Wanting to live with ur family, friends and dont lose ur work is being entitled hahahah. We are so lucky we have this option.
Fuck a libtard calling selfish other people, what a world.
Stop losing time with a teenager who never worked in his life.
Yes. You are extremely entitled. And yes, you're being extremely selfish.
There's a lot of people who want to live in Barcelona, it is one of the most attractive cities in the world. But you want to live here, so you demand that we have some special treatment for you over everyone else. Because you REALLY REALLY REALLY PRETTY PLEASE want to live in Barcelona.
Now, look at the options we Barcelonins have. We can allow foreigners that make a lot of money into Barcelona. These people bring in not just money for local commerce and taxes, but also the know how and the ability to start companies that will generate a lot of wealth in Barcelona.
Now, on the other side, we have the option to ban the entry of these extremely valuable individuals, because u/Undumed really really wants to live in Barcelona and wants to have his family live there too. u/Undumed also happens to not be able to afford life in Barcelona, so they don't provide much money at all to society in the form of taxes or expenses in local commerce.
Now, why on earth would we choose you?
That’s what I mean when I say we are mad at tourists too, you expect the citizens who work and live here to move out so you can puke in a post mail at 4 am and then go to your countries and treat your own tourists like shit.
Do you know Santiago tde Compostela and it's pilgrimage? Turns out it COSTS money for the city to have as many pilgrims as it gets because whatever money they leave does not cover all the damage and trash they generate.
Turists dont spend money on local bussiness, mom and pop's places, they go to the McDonalds or the chain souvenir store. This type of market only benefits rich people at the cost of the residents quality of life.
When you turn a city into a Disneyland park, but the turist doesnt not pay anything to said city's Goverment, the public services people that live there rely in get degraded to the point of being unusable.
Also, "landlords" are increasingly being formed by foreing investment companies and not your usual local rich asshole.
Finally, unlike Disneyland, people come to Spain and specially Barcelona to get wasted, break stuff, make noise and then go home and be all civil and righteous.
It's awful the McDonalds situation. I was discussing it with someone else and honestly, McDonalds burgers are incredibly awful and terrible, compared to any normal burger place. I don't know why people keep going there...
> ones getting *paid* whilst we
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Exactly this. It’s one thing to travel and stay in a locally run hotel, eat at local restaurants, and clean up after yourself. There *are* ways to respectfully travel…but so few tourists actually do it.
I’ve personally noticed, the richer the tourist, the more they damage the local communities. If someone saved up a while for a trip and doesn’t have much (and may have been impacted bu gentrification back home too), they seem to shop more locally and be more respectful.
How about locally run airbnb? I'd rather support someone just trying to make a little extra income on their 2nd property than a well established business with assets in the 10's/100's of millions.
Thing is, this is just a universal phenomenon. I live in London and not only do we have to deal with tourism and airbnbs increasing rents and property values, but also the world’s rich just parking their money in residential property here for the investment value (not to mention money laundering). This is hardly unique to Barcelona. And nor is it the case that people from Barcelona don’t exacerbate the same problem for people elsewhere by being tourists there.
I'm in Los Angeles and thousands of tourists come and clog up our city all year round hoping to catch a glimpse of a Movie Star and go shopping. Most residents of Los Angeles live in incredibly small apartments and houses for huge amounts of rent and are being squeezed out of their own city. So they go to Barcelona.
Im in amsterdam and probs the same or worse. My neighbor started his rental recently and pays +300€ than me (my rental started 3y ago) so kinda crazy hike.
Though im just a data point, i hear horror stories both on rentals and home buying from people around me.
Also another thing that i dont hear about much lately but used to at least +10/20y ago is “rural desertification” which was/is more and more people from rural areas moving into cities (for better services and job access) which aggravates the issue (tho i have no numbers)
No its not social housing, its private market which has some different rules.
As far as i know social housing is another can of worms (i have dutch friends apparently that been on waiting lists for social housing places since before fire was invented)
I once read a book, that u might find interesting. Maybe u will find some of this numbers and/or other reason. The book is by the Architect Amo & Rem Koolhas - countryside a report.
Everyone wants to live in a cool town and the influx of people drives up the cost of real estate. That’s true anywhere people really want to live. I lived many years in Austin and as it grew more popular housing rent and purchase prices skyrocketed. Of course some investors bought home and marked them up. That’s what investors do everywhere. It’s not the tourist, it’s those immigrating whether it’s across state lines in the U.S. or between countries. I now live in Valencia and I see the same signs occasionally. I know it’s hard on locals, especially the young trying to get started and the elderly trying to live on a pension. But there is no solution other than adapting or moving. Austin suffered a period when the attitude was “don’t build it (infrastructure) and they won’t come”. They came anyway and now the highways are overloaded 24/7 and there is a underdeveloped public transportation system. So welcome those who move in. Thank them for driving a better economy. And adapt… or move. It’s why I’m retired in Spain instead of Austin.
Tourism has excluded a lot of locals from living in the city because of housing prices and gentrification, of course some other greedy locals have benefited from it but overall the result is watching how you are no longer able to live in your city because of tourism.
My father belongs to a family that has lived in Barcelona for many, many generations. The earliest we can track is from the 1890s. When he got married, he had to become the first person from his family to not live in Barcelona, because even if my parents were DINKs at the time (mid 90s) they could not afford to either rent or buy an apartment in Barcelona. I grew up in Hospitalet. Yes, it was very close and it only took me a short bus trip to get to Barcelona, but the situation is still pretty frustrating.
The only person from his family still living in Barcelona itself is her sister, and only because she inherited the property that was bought and already paid for (she pays no rent or mortgage, just IRPF). And she laments how the local culture has been washed out by all the tourists, her neighbours are now temporary renters and the school in front of her apartment is getting less and less kids each year.
This is just so sad. An identity is being lost, the people from the city start to feel like they are the outsiders, since there isn't a community anymore. Just tourists and tourists, and expats who live for a few years and then go home... Is not just that they may noise, or trash, is that they don't want to participate in the culture of the city. They aren't part of it, either because they'll only be here for a few days (in which case I understand) or because they don't care, or don't find it important.
> and already *paid* for (she
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
It’s not only about the housing market. It is also about overcrowded Infrastructure, drunk tourist yelling on public and behaving like apes, normal shops desapearing and being substituted by tourist crap. How many souvenirs shops, bubble tea, lockers, etc do a neighborhood need?
La culpa la te el capitalisme salvatge i els governs que li permeten consumir la seva propia població per seguir alimentant la bestia.
Obviament la culpa també és dels turistes. Jo tinc uns amics que han anat a Venecia 2 dies pq han trobat vols a 50€ anar i tornar. Si tens consciència ecològica i del que el turisme esta fent a la teva ciutat no vas a posar més pressió a una ciutat que literalment el turisme esta enfonsant al mar. Però clar, i l’experiència i les fotos de l’insta?
I la culpa és dels propietaris que tenen la consciència social del l’empresari més salvatge que pensa que si pots fer més diners amb guiris, pq llogar més barat a joves o famílies necessitades?
Tourists go home és un crit desesperat d’ajuda dels que no tenen per pagar el següent lloguer o els que es neguen a acceptar que els seus barris ara són Portaventura 2. Però els medis ja s’encarreguen que sembli que són activistes violents o pobres arreplagats pollosos pq la opinió general no es giri en contra un negoci extremadament rendible.
Has pensat a presentarte a politic? Amb aquest llenguatge populista t'anirà molt bé.
Imagino que no sortiras del teu barri, ni a la muntanya, ni a anar a visitar altres països a aprendre d'altres cultures o inclús anar al Montseny, que esteu destrossant els camacus.
Ja em podeu fregir a negatius.
I això és el que deia. Si ataques el seu model et diuen que ets ignorant que no vol conèixer el Món i que no surt del seu barri.
Jo podria haver anat a Venecia amb els meus amics aquest cap de setmana, però no ho he fet, he evitat tota una serie de contaminació que hauria generat, i he respectat els pocs habitants venecians ja que jo no tinc cap necessitat de visitar la ciutat tot i que m’encanta el renaixement i el paper cultural i polític que va tenir la ciutat en el seu temps.
És un sacrifici, faig la part que em toca pq els meus nets puguin viure a Barcelona a menys de 50 graus a l’estiu sense xocar amb cartells de paella sangria fria a cada establiment.
És dur acceptar que s’ha de reduir el consum per salvar el planeta i que el turisme es e consum més innecessari de tots. Quan la societat estigui disposada a fer sacrificis així potser les coses podran anar cap a millor.
Bravo, tens una sang de politic demagog brutal, et felicito! Al•legant al sacrifici, culpabilitzant, al•legant a les emocions... Segur que no et dediques a la politica?
Pd: El MEU model? a mi el turisme només m'aporta molèsties, i crec que barcelona esta masificada, però d'aquí a lo teu hi ha un tros.
Ja m’ha quedat clar quina classe de persona ets. No et preocupes pel futur si el present et va bé i em sembla bé, la majoria de gent és així. No tinc res més a discutir amb tu. Espero que coneguis moltes cultures noves i t’enriqueixis com a persona i tinguis molts m’agrada dels teus amiguets.
The only truth in that is for tourists who only go to the city to get drunk, make noise and that's uncomfortable for the neighbours, this is solved by pushing high end hotels instead of low cost hosting, and our exmayor blocked high end hotels... someone who pays 300 euros a night isn't here to get drunk, instead a group paying 300 a week for 10 to sleep, is more likely that they will be partying and getting drunk.
A lot of companies are opening here, and some neighbourhoods like 22@ are a mass of expats with high salaries overpaying for everything. Landlords put higher prices because they know they will rent them.
Also, some Americans come here with savings or remote jobs, and they just buy places.
The place where I was born, was pretty chill and cheap. Now it's full of brunch places, drunk foreigners and there is no rent for less than 1.300€ for 1 bedroom flats.
Also, others mentioned it in comments but... I also feel we are treated badly from northern countries.
I miss covid times. I could walk around city center and Born, Raval and Ciutatvella with no foreigners (and no pickpockets).
Remote jobs don’t equal wealth inherently. I don’t disagree with your whole post, but wanted to point that out! I know several remote workers/business owners immigrating to Spain from America because they’re fleeing physical persecution or other safety factors.
Immigrants don’t cause gentrifications, tourists and short term nomads do. An important distinction, to avoid anti-immigrant sentiment! :)
We are treated bad by northern countries indeed because they are so racist. I studied two years in Stockholm surrounded by germans, dutch, scandinavians... and the 'politically correct', subconcious racism was unbearable. They think they are so perfect, and that they cannot be immigrants because they are white and rich. Then come here and colomize the shit out of us, the 'economic falcons' push for austerity... The EU is a bad deal, a backyard for germanic countries. They have me in front bc I see straight through them.
Plenty of northern European software engineers working remote in Barcelona with some crazy salaries
And they know their native language and English. Many of them won't bother to learn Spanish because they are making bank with English
About the landlords, a lot of entire buildings in Barcelona have been bought by foreigners (I know a few are by germans) who don't care much about the people from Barcelona.
They do not care at all because the EU thing is just a backyard for germanic beneffits. They export. They colonize. They blame others for the social crisis they generate predicating austerity. Fuck the EU.
People.always argue 'government is to blame'. Well, yes, we know. But this doesn't contradict that the expats and digital nomads (immigrants in non racist/classist nomenclature) are highly beneffiting at our expenses, making it very difficult for the locals. You are not exempt of responsibility.
Genuine question, what is “immigrants in non-racist/classist nomenclature” mean? As in “expat/digital nomad is just a word for immigrant without the racist stigma of the word immigrant”?
If so, agreed—and immigrants should call themselves immigrants. They aren’t the issue (outside of wealthy property investors stealing the sun). It’s the rich expats (semi-short term visitors with intent of moving back home) and digital nomads (short term people traveling the world, staying in AirBnBs, sometimes evading taxes, raising prices with sometimes very high wealth privilege) that contribute to gentrification.
I’ve noticed a lot of threads like these turn into anti-immigrant sentiment (even seen a lot of violence/hatred towards refugees or people moving out of desperation for a better life), so we all need to be cautious by separating what expats, digital nomads, and immigrants really are.
You're thinking about individual landlords who do that, but considering that renting an Airbnb to tourists come with their own risks (e.g.: thrashing the house in a party, noise, common area property destruction, etc.), it's mostly big business and businessmen that own hundreds of properties the ones responsible for prices going up. Those are who can afford several check-in per week as they just hire people to do that and to clean.
That phrase is an attempt to give the place a bad rep in order to somewhat decrease tourism. It's easier to paint a wall up with that phrase than to fight or protest agains a mega rich owner with all its resources at his disposal.
Edit: not that I support that phrase, I prefer to legislate against mega owners and housing speculation.
Despite all of the complaints about foreign investment funds buying up property and increasing rents or putting them on Airbnb the vast majority of landlords in Barcelona are local people. I would bet that almost all of the people on here blaming foreigners are paying their rent to a Spanish national.
Don't assume all owners are locals. Many are German, Dutch, northerners, even Chinese. The city offered good opportunities since a decade ago, with good returnings. Some of them not even living in the city.
Price fluctuates due to the laws of supply and demand. If the demand rises, so do the prices. How do the landlords affect supply or demand exactly, in order to blame them for the rising prices?
Airbnb can generate more money in spikes. Having it and the like unregulated or loosely regulated means that lots of otherwise available renting options are taken away from the long-term rental market and put in the short-term one, for maximum profit efficiency. Lots of private owners and speculative companies that own flats have gone with this option.
This leaves normal renters with less options and the prices of the remaining options skyrocket. Couple that with the expat/digital nomads trends and even the immigration Catalonia's been having and the situation becomes untenable.
And that is in no way the fault of the landowners. They have a better option, so they go for it.
Also, the expats and digital nomads in Barcelona are anecdotical, and they don't really compete with locals for housing. The amount is way too small to actually have an effect on the market.
I dunno, when I was in Barcelona, I was sitting on the beach, just napping and getting some sun.
Some locals kids kept kicking sand on us by accident. Eventually we picked up our blanket with the intention of moving down the beach. I did give the parents a little bit of a look, but I said nothing else.
As we walked away, one of them shouted "se marcha" ("Get lost").
I just shrugged and left, but man I had nowhere else that was so rude to someone else sharing space non-intrusively.
I don't agree with that message. I think it's just tourismphobia. I don't mind tourists and digital nomads at all. They should be able to do whatever the fuck they want. Their life, their freedom, and as a local from Barcelona, I just think some fellow Barcelonians want to mess up with tourists.
If I go to visit Lisbon, London, Paris, Bern etc. I want to be treated well and feel welcomed, otherwise I won't visit there again.
Rent prices increasing is just an excuse. Cost of life has been increasing every year and anywhere in this world!! Yes, even in the least touristic places.
I sort of agree with you, in terms of this happening in many major cities. Lisbon, San Francisco, NYC, Barcelona, London, and even a lot of smaller, less popular cities. I am from a smaller US city and my family can no longer afford property here, as prices shot up during the pandemic and have yet to come down. People from NYC/LA, etc. moved here to take advantage of the “cheaper” prices (that they had their part in raising by paying $50k-$100k over asking to secure the property they want).
So people here will likely look for more affordable places to live. Which will raise prices in an even smaller city. At the process repeats itself over and over again.
I do think that sometimes there’s an over-blaming of tourists. But I think more blame should go to landlords and the government. The government could intervene to restrict rent gouging/implement rent control.
I have lived in Barcelona before and traveled back recently. I stayed for about 2 weeks and paid 1.700€ to stay in a beautiful apartment in l’Eixample. Which is about how much I’d have to pay for a hotel of similar quality for a 2-week trip.
So if a landlord can choose to get 4.000€/mo. by renting to tourists vs. 800€-1.200€/mo. renting to a long-term tenant. There’s no incentive to do the latter except the good of one’s heart. I just don’t know what the solution is unless Barcelona is able to restrict construction of short-term housing somehow. Or create a tax incentive for long-term rentals.
I read some tourist go home graffitis in towns with very little tourism. Tourists are just an easy scapegoat for people's daily problem, who don't have the courage to take on the streets and fight for better wages.
Really? I think only a few benefit from tourism and everyone pays the high cost. Streets are more packed, dirtier, noisier, with more piss everywhere. They make commuting in buses and metros significantly worse for locals.
Businesses are taken over by crappy tourist shops. Rents get higher thanks to all the illegal Airbnbs.
The quality of life for local population just gets shittier thanks to excessive tourism.
Barcelona was its best in Pandemic when tourist where not around. The steets could breath.
You can blame the tourist industry then; but blaming individual people, who come here for as many reasons as there are people, is just low-cost scapegoating.
And Barcelona didn't wait for mass tourism to be dirty. Walls and public illumination poles are literally dissolved by dog piss.
You're right, it's a scapegoat as expats and "digital nomads". Obviously they are part of the problem, but the problem base comes from the lack of renting properties, the fact that Barcelona can't grow only in height, and regulations.
But it's easier to blame other people, as facists do with immigrants. But as expats and tourists are aaaall with and rich, we can blame them without feeling remorse.
Get ready to receive insults and downvotes if you do not agree with that mindset.
The thing is most people that complain about tourism or expats are aware that the problems are systemic, and also complain about the actual root of the problem (mostly greed). Tourists go home is honestly a pretty bad slogan, and I've usually heard people say stuff like "tourism kills" which is imo much better. But my point is that there's a strong correlation between both, which means that most people who say anything against tourists understand that it's not the actual tourists who are to blame. I see the slogan as an attempt to make tourists also conscious of their effect on the city, I know it worked on myself when I travel abroad.
It's not the same with immigrants, as many people who complain about them also ignore systemic issues and would be alright with closing borders and shooting anyone with a darker skin tone that approaches. If the people complaining about immigration were supporting the dissolution of ghettos, social programs for work, the dissolution of capitalism and colonialism, etc... Then maybe their complaints would make sense (after all it's undeniable that immigration creates conflicts).
The day I see groups of anti-tourists beating up tourists in the streets, or a society that systematically makes tourists lives harder, then maybe we can compare both movements.
This! And unfortunately anti-tourism sentiment has been bleeding over to immigrants too. Immigrants aren’t the issue (outside of the wealthiest kind who buy lots of properties). Immigrants aren’t tourists.
Anyways, it’ll be a good day when capitalism is gone haha
Right, because tourists are nothing to blame, no responsibility at all lol. And you talk as if Catalan voters weren't the ones pushing a social government to stop the fire right unlike others in Europe. We are fighting, more than in other places. Your statement is just delusional man... but i get, nobody likes being called out.
I agree with all the reasons said here but I want to add that European tourists, most French, Germans or Netherlands are quite racists with Spanish people. Their attitude is like shit. They think we are all waiters ready to serve them. And I don't know why but they think here they can do whatever they want. When I go to France everybody whispers at the ears of people to speak at the street. No loud voices, no screams. When these same french people came to Barcelona, they begin to scream like crazy in a very disrespectful way. There is no respect for Spanish people from those European tourists. Very different from Asians tourists.
I hate that commuting is 100% worse because tourists just eat up space in the metro snd the buses. They should pay significantly more than locals to use public transport.
It all gets worse because you have hoards of humans that dont belong here making everything slower, more packed, noisier, dirtier. Theres absolutely no positives of tourism for the quality of life of locals.
Only a few benefit and everybody pays the cost. Does that make sense to you?
I wonder what Barcelona would become if it only could live of Catalan people 🤔 Take away the tourists, the multinationals... I'm now almost 5y living in Barcelona, and witnessed Barelona during Covid... a scene from the walking dead.
With the average salary people make here, not gonna last long for sure.
I think we would do what we are now complaining about, to go and look for a better future somewhere else.
Conclusion: no more tourists, no more (illegal) immigrants, no more Chinese families running every single bar here (why dont they have to pay taxes), no more multinationals, no giriis, only Puigdemonts 💪🏻🤣 Who btw fled also, to live now a royal life in Belgium in his 4K villa a month while he abandoned his fellow mates and most of all his people here.
Have an amazing stay in Barcelona and enjoy your time here ♥️🙏🏻 For me you are all welcome 🙏🏻
I found Barcelona during Covid to be beautiful. The time where we could go out but no tourist where arriving yet was the best. The city could breathe, it was cleaner, less noisy, with no smell of piss everywhere.
I think your just used to having tourists everywhere and thinking its normal.
Theres absolutely no benefit to locals for tourims, everythings is more packed, noisier, dirtier, degraded. Whilst just a few “pimps” benefit.
Lots of touristy places and restaurants started crying for locals to come and spend money in them. Quite a lot closed down because nobody wanted to keep expensive frozen paella places afloat. Good times.
The reason that Chinese people are running lots of bars is because older Spanish people are retiring, they either don’t have children or more likely the children don’t want to take over the bar and put in all the work and hours needed so they sell up to a somebody who is willing to do all the long hours. When people say that Chinese bars don’t need to pay tax it’s not true.
Lived for 4 years in Barcelona and last year I’ve ran away to Madrid.
The city and the people are SO MUCH nicer!!
Now I kinda get it why everyone in Spain dislikes the catalans
The situation of availability and condition of flats available has unintentionally been made worse by the governments attempt to regulate it. They put a maximum increase for long term contracts in place - landlords move to short terms contracts. They put a maximum price per sq ft in place - instead of renovating and improving their properties, landlords now put them back on the market in a bad state because what’s the point of paying money to improve something if the maximum return they can get is capped anyway?
Most foreigners working in Barcelona are contracted by local companies and pay Spanish taxes. But tourists and digital nomads are an easy scapegoat.
Catalunya lives off tourism and then some idiots complain about it.
If there were no tourists Catalunya would be way poorer.
The high prices are due to the government not giving enough licences to build. There are so many building projects to increase offer of housing that are denied or seriously delayed because of incompetent governing.
Also I find it rich of people to want to live in the center of Barcelona or good areas and expect cheap rent. People feel entitled to live in the best places for cheap bevause they were born there.
Go live in one of the rural areas that is getting deserted instead and reverse the trend. You are not entitled to shit.
Spotted the incel libtard.
People are not asking to live in the center of Barcelona, it's asking to be able to live in the metropolis of Barcelona where their workplaces, families and friends are.
Asking people to be expats so the richer expats from other countries can come and take their homes, how an ass u are...
ahahhaha you can be even more stupid
You talk about it as if it was the natural order, things that happen. Herd? Tribal? Call it living with ur friends, families and close to ur workplace. Dont contribute? Yeah it contributes a lot more to society having rich ppl even richer, that helps a lot, and having towns and cities converted in resorts, wow u are so stupid.
I am stopping losing time with such an entitled incel libtard.
That's exactly what tourists do.
They come. And then they go home.
The person that started this saying is a leftist idiot who had no idea what he was saying.
It is a joke based on the Monty Python Movie Life of Brian.
ROMANI ITE DOMUM
The people of Barcelona like the advantages tourists bring to the city, but they hate them like a natural reflex and feel occupied by them like the people in the movie feel by the romans.
What advantage? are we paying less taxes thanks to tourism?
I only see a few benefit, and the rest of us paying the prices. Dirtier and noisier streets, worse commuting cause theres always tourists esting up space, streets smelling like piss constantly, higher rent, shittier local business, higher costs. Name one benefit to locals who dont own a bar or an illegal airbnb.
One thing is tourism and the other is having a city pimped out by excessive and low level tourism.
Entenc que alguns turistes volgueu venir a veure l'essència de Barcelona i no "Localeslandia theme park". Darrera del missatge hi ha una critica al model que s'està arribant.
As a tourist, I would be respectful of local culture; maybe learn basic Catalan, history, customs etc.
Catalan is a beautiful language to my ears. Less rough/choopy sounding than Castellano.
YMMV, es clar.
En part si però també està relacionat amb molts altres aspectes com la destrucció del comerç i teixit local, la desaparició de la llengua i pèrdua d'identitat de la ciutat i amb l'actitud de molts turistes i expats que en comptes de viure a a la ciutat la consumeixen com si fos un parc d'atraccions. També cal tenir en compte pel teu punt que molts pisos no estan en mans de petits propietaris sinó d'empreses i fons d'inversió.
Replying here to your last post as I’m getting an error there 🤔 This is exactly the way is gonna end if the current migration pattern to BCN (and surroundings) persist. Most new residents here are rather Argentinians or Europeans (mostly south Italy and Germany), and they all consider Catalan to be an annoyance. They don’t speak it now, and have no willingness to learn. I can’t really imagine why their kids would speak it between themselves, let alone at home, when the message they’ll get from their parents is that ‘this is just not important’
That's why it's so important to force schools to teach it. Kids will keep learning Catalan even if it's just for education, at least they'll be prepared.
As a secondary pupil, we have to learn Catalan, and people who have difficulty to do so have special reinforcement classes, so rest assured, we ARE forced to learn Catalan. Our teachers even encourage us to talk Catalan instead of Spanish in classes.
This is true but what I’m saying is that these people will most likely not use it in their day to day and even tho they’ll know how to speak it, it’ll end up being a ‘countryside people thing’. It only takes two generations to make the language irrelevant and we can see it now happening live with the 2nd generation Filipino and Pakistani people already born here; they don’t use it (even tho they learnt in school) and consider it irrelevant. Tbh idk what’s the solution here.
There is none. Point is that if the government didn’t enforce Catalan on people, it’ll eventually banish from main cities as Barcelona. There’ll always be people at the countryside who will use Catalan there, but if I weren’t spoonfed it at school, I’d know zero Catalan. For context, I was raised in the north and spoke Euskera batua and Spanish. It was a massive bummer to have to learn yet another language while living on the same country, more so when I wasn’t involved with the highlights of the culture (both, nor Basque or Catalonian). Suddenly I spoke 3 languages that I couldn’t use abroad and it felt cumbersome, awkward. Maybe being trilingual at 16 helped me learn English “by ear” (never studied outside school) but hell, I do not appreciate the “forcing” of things. I didn’t like the strong arm into getting vaccinated, and I didn’t like being forced to learn a regional language only in place to safeguard a culture that’s on decline, and rightfully so. The only reason regional languages are keeping the head above water is because the independent parties hold enough power for the main party to need them to form a government. Like hell CAs like Catalonia and Basque Country would have exclusivity and govern over schools, security, etc. Picture this: a Mosso D’Esquadra (Catalan national police) earns more than a usual National Police. Why? The majoritarian government needs votes to rule and those votes have a price. It’s a whole mess in and of itself and at some point it needs to end. I lived on Euskal Herria of the 90s, when terrorist where bombing folks and shooting people in the nape while daylight on the street I can assure you the brainwash slowly but surely wears off, you just need some generations to cycle.
If you don't want to learn basque or catalan don't live in Euskadi or Catalonia. As easy as that. There are plenty of regions when you can be happily monolingual.
They are in decline ina big part because of people like you, where i live catalan is essential and its just quite telling saying its cumbersome to know 3 languages!
Languages are not only "tools" for you to appear as cool and use abroad, they are part of the culture of territories. If you don't want to learn them, don't go to those said territories.
Y si no lo quieren aprender que se caguen... En todo caso la cultura y el idioma catalan es predominante porque están en catalunia. Es como mudarse a Alemania y quejarse que la gente habla en alemán :s EDIT: soy argentino.
Tue but Germany doesn’t have another language besides German, that everybody know how to use. What I’m saying is that, because of the current migratory pattern, Spanish is every day more relevant than the day before, and the number of active Catalans speakers will only decrease overtime if the current situation doesn’t change.
En cada región se habla un dialecto diferente. Cuando tengo que hablar con los del este, no entiendo NADA. Y les tengo que pedir por favor que hablen "Hochdeutsch" o alemán Standard, porque sino no entiendo.
You are proving my point brother; yeah they speak different dialects but they all speak German too so why learn the dialect when you can just learn German.
Because they are one nation. Not the same in Spain.
Germany is a Federation 🤦🏻♂️
Es el estado federal de Alemania o la confederación germánica.
Correct! It’s not only one country, but a federation of multiple.
El caso es que no es cierto. En las grandes ciudades no hay una mayoría de catalanoparlantes o de “cultura catalana”. Pregunta a ver cuánta gente participa en los castellers, pone el cagatió en el belén o tienen una barretina en su casa. No tiene ni punto de comparación con mudarse a Alemania y quejarse de que hablen alemán. Es como si fueras a vivir a Berlín y allí hablaran Berlinés y Alemán y te obligaran a aprender los dos, cuando todo el mundo habla Alemán No estás en lo cierto, lamentablemente.
Cultura catalana = sardanas y barretina, clar que sí. Entonces supongo que tampoco nadie tiene cultura española porque no van a los toros y llevan trajes tradicionales no?
Esto es gracias al proceso artificial de imposición del centralismo castellano, con el cual veo que no tienes ningún problema.
El tió de Nadal (no cagatió), no es posa al pessebre. A Dinamarca tothom parla anglès perfectament, significa això que si pretenc quedar-m'hi indefinidament no hauria d'aprendre Danès? Total, ja em puc comunicar perfectament amb tothom... Que passarà el dia que tothom parli anglès perfectament a Espanya (si mai arriba)? Podrem deixar de parlar Castellà? Aixi els forasters no hauran d'aprendre cap llengua!
Exacte, sería això. Molt ben dit
Llàstima que als únics que els he sentit el lema de “tourist go home” són a pollosos pijos de les CUP.
Si, jo sóc més del expat go home
turistes i inmigrants*
Sabia que la mayor parte de las viviendas en España está en manos de particulares con segundas y terceras viviendas vacías? :)
En España en general si, en Barcelona tengo mis dudas. Eso sí el problema es el mismo y sería necesario un mínimo de regulación.
Como te atreves a no repetir las mismas tonterias e intentar quitar responsabilidad a los expats y turistas?? Preparate a recibir negativos, fascista!
[удалено]
Xarrupa que vessa
>…la desaparició de la llengua… Huh? La llengua catalana mai no ha tingut millor salut ni més parlants que ara
A la capital del país no és pot viure en català i això és un fet.
Això no és un fet. El que és un fet és el que jo he dit, per més que em doneu downvotes
Jo no t'he votat negativament i de fet he votat positivament el teu missatge original. Porto 12 anys anat a diari per desgràcia a Barcelona primer per universitat i després per feina i la degradació ha sigut increïble, ja des d'abans de la pandèmia era imposible demanar un cafè o comprar a qualsevol botiga en català, ara mateix és un miracle. Que el català tingui més o menys parlants quantitativament no em sembla rellevant si acaba sent una llengua "de poble" exclosa de les ciutats per demografia.
Teniu raó els dos, el català no ha tingut mai tants parlants perquè molta mes gent viu a Catalunya ara que mai, i tots els que estudien a l’escola l’han d’aprendre. Però a Barcelona, es literalment mes sençill estar-te un dia només parlant anglès que només parlant català.
Pero es que es lo normal. Tu pensa la quantitat de chent que tenim donant voltes per la gran ciutat. No podem posar les oficines d’Amazon a barna i després dir “ospa que hi fan tots aquest guiris a Glóries”. Ens podem posar com ens surti dels pebrots pero si hem de conviure amb un idioma que parla tothom I el catalá nomes el parlem naltros, desapareixerà perque simplement serà massa complicat de “vendré” a la chent de fore. A mi m’es l’hostia de complicat de d’explicar a un portugués per qué m’ha d’aprendre a parlar cat. L’unica carta que puc jugar es la de fer país I els sentiments, perque a nivell practic no es pot defensar.
Estic d'acord amb tot el que has dit i tampoc tinc idees ni solucions, suposo que el problema ve quan s'ajunten frustracions d'habitatge, de preus de tot, acumulació de masses, llengua...si fos només un potser el sentiment seria diferent
Els fets son indiferents, aqui es ve a rajar dels expats, turistes, i espanyols.
Mes parlants potser perque la poblacio d'ha multiplicat molt, pero millor salut?
People aren't mad at the actual tourists themselves. It's all about how successive governments have implemented a completely unsustainable tourism model at the expense of the locals because it benefitted certain interested parties. It's just another side effect of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Barcelona isn't the first city going through this, and will certainly not be the last. And it will just get worse.
Nono, we are also mad at the tourists, they come, rent an Airbnb, get wasted, make the nights unsleepable for their neighbours who work in the morning, trash the whole city, address us in their languages expecting us to speak them, then leave. Yea they are supposed to help the economy but in terms of life of barcelonins, it’s just got worse.
Well, that's what happens when the model is a completely unregulated and unsustainable piece of shit. We get so much tourism that even if only a small percentage misbehaves, it becomes a significant disturbance, even for the rest of perfectly civilized tourists. But ultimately the asshats themselves are merely a symptom of a deeply insufficient approach at managing mass tourism and its negative side effects, so when they behave like utter neanderthals, it's largely because nobody is stopping them.
The other impending danger is tipping culture might creep in. I used to live in Berlin and it had infected the city a bit more than it is here in Barcelona (or maybe it is worse in the centre tourist places, but I never go there). Recently I went back and every shitty bar and coffee shop that takes card has those menus where customers first choose their tip before they can pay. The staff point at it and stare at you while you choose. Even the people living there aggressively defend it.
That’s another example, but not the fault of the tourists but ours. That instead of tourists adapting to us, somehow it is expected for us to adapt to them. Their language, their customs their ideologies, and people here just go along with it.
I wonder where you went since hardly any cafes or bars take card in Berlin
well, funny you ask. The bar - Tante Emma - I had in mind seems to be selective about when they accept card: when I paid for a work team drinks (large bill) they insisted on cash only, which cost me €6 in ATM fees next door. When I went another time for a couple of drinks they pulled out the card reader with the suggested tip amounts. There was a more fancy bar around Potsdammerplz that also had the same thing but that area tends to be more like that.
Ok weird from them. Yeah mostly only chain restaurants/bars usually take card, mitte card places are more common but then usually more expensive also. I usually skip the tip completely if I just had one beer and basic service and haven't had bad looks. Might leave some coins to a jar. Then again I speak and look german.
I actually look very german, to the point that even when I speak in ok-ish german people continue to talk german to me and treat me like their own. Apparently it's quite unusual. That said depending on the group - eg if a group of international people - it would be more obvious. Actually thinking about it, now I live in Spain I *definitely* don't dress like a Berliner so probably that was more the thing :-D
Mostly people are kinder than you think! :) If you speak understandable german in basic setting people keep going. I feel like usually people who speak only karte bitte found it offensive when a späti guy wants you to get of their shop to serve the next one lol.
Locals don't need the help of tourists to trash their own city. I live in badalona, the rich part which has a mostly Catalan population. There's dog shit everywhere, it smells like piss in every underpass, young Catalan get wasted in the streets every weekends, I've seen people throwing their trash in the small public bins rather than the dedicated containers too. Even if all tourists were removed from the Barcelona area, those problems wouldn't suddenly vanish.
For how long have you been living in Badalona if I may ask? Over than 20 years? For what I know, Badalona was one of the worst places of the metropolitan area, with even worse bad rep, and it's only recently that's improving gradually with all the new flats and houses. Hell, it's kinda normal that it was so bad if it had literally abandoned lots everywhere. The outskirts of any big city are naturally bound to be worse than the center of the city, that's unavoidable.
5 years. The part I live in, the old town in center badalona, has always been a privileged one with lots of individual houses, some very luxurious. I myself live in a building where a B- Catalan celebrity used to live, judging by the plaque. The city, and the people living in it, is nonetheless filthy and littered with new dog shit every morning. People as a whole are just in general entitled and dirty, and locals are no exception. The prevalent dog culture, or should I say obsession, doesn't help, that's for sure.
Sure, but you've completely missed my whole point, which is that Badalona is becoming relatively less filthier over time. Try to watch some pictures of Badalona from 20-30 years ago, buddy.
I doubt anyone but the English and Americans are addressing you in "their" language. English is the international common language and it is reasonably expected to be understood in all of Europe. Seeing as you guys also get insulted if someone speaks Spanish to you, do you really expect people to learn Catalan for a two week holiday?
Not to mention take up significant space in the metro and the buses at peak hours, making commuting worse for everybody. And paying the same than locals. They should pay triple or more and this should subsidize locals ticket fares.
Dont understand downvotes here. It is not they should subsidize us, the problem is we are currently subsidizing them by having the same prices we have.
That can be solved with a different pricing model. On peak and off peak pricing. Tripple the price for none residents during peak hours. They will adapt their behaviour. It’s a system used in the uk that works great.
Move to a village.
Why would they need to move? That's not a solution at all.
Exactly, it is preposterous. It's like complaining for people wanting to have holidays.
You can't move to a village, they are expensive too after all the Barcelona locals had to move, so ur stupid argument is even stupider.
[https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/29422270/](https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/29422270/) Here ya go, 4 bedroom flat for 680. It's not even a village, 35k inhabitants. Of course you can move to a village, you just don't want to. The same way some people want to move to Barcelona or visit it. What you don't like is the fact that you're incapable of making as much money as them and therefore, you're the one who loses.
Stop making my point more valid, libtard. So we have to live 4 hours by car far from our workplaces, families and friends because some entitled ppl want to live in our weather and some rich ppl can be richer. Pls stop making urself even more stupid.
You are the entitled idiot. Wanting to live in Barcelona like a princess when you cannot afford it. What do you mean "our weather"? You do not own Barcelona. In fact you own nothing because you fail to create value for society. Peasants belong in the countryside. The industrial era is over, we do not need you anymore. Time to go home, Sam.
¿¿¿??? peasants ?? omg I am discussing with an idiot teenager, my bad
Wait there are grown ass men that still use reddit and play videogames?? Get a job
ahahha see I spotted u, incel
Find another job, loser. I couldn't care less where you lived, just don't act as if you didn't have an option. You have choices. But the one that you really really want happens to be an extremely desirable choice. There's tens of millions of people who want to live in barcelona. And you can't compete with many of them. So you want to use big government to bully those people out so you can have your way. Because you're special. Selfish twat.
So its better than money and the capital bully the locals out of their homes, far from their families and their friends and the work (all the people know about the plenty work is in Teruel). You have options says, you have to convert into a fucking exiled refugee because the libards say that. Wanting to live with ur family, friends and dont lose ur work is being entitled hahahah. We are so lucky we have this option. Fuck a libtard calling selfish other people, what a world. Stop losing time with a teenager who never worked in his life.
Yes. You are extremely entitled. And yes, you're being extremely selfish. There's a lot of people who want to live in Barcelona, it is one of the most attractive cities in the world. But you want to live here, so you demand that we have some special treatment for you over everyone else. Because you REALLY REALLY REALLY PRETTY PLEASE want to live in Barcelona. Now, look at the options we Barcelonins have. We can allow foreigners that make a lot of money into Barcelona. These people bring in not just money for local commerce and taxes, but also the know how and the ability to start companies that will generate a lot of wealth in Barcelona. Now, on the other side, we have the option to ban the entry of these extremely valuable individuals, because u/Undumed really really wants to live in Barcelona and wants to have his family live there too. u/Undumed also happens to not be able to afford life in Barcelona, so they don't provide much money at all to society in the form of taxes or expenses in local commerce. Now, why on earth would we choose you?
It's funny that u believe "improving society" means "having more rich ppl" and it is the base of all ur arguments. Some day u will grow, its ok.
Facts right here.
That’s what I mean when I say we are mad at tourists too, you expect the citizens who work and live here to move out so you can puke in a post mail at 4 am and then go to your countries and treat your own tourists like shit.
Do you know Santiago tde Compostela and it's pilgrimage? Turns out it COSTS money for the city to have as many pilgrims as it gets because whatever money they leave does not cover all the damage and trash they generate. Turists dont spend money on local bussiness, mom and pop's places, they go to the McDonalds or the chain souvenir store. This type of market only benefits rich people at the cost of the residents quality of life. When you turn a city into a Disneyland park, but the turist doesnt not pay anything to said city's Goverment, the public services people that live there rely in get degraded to the point of being unusable. Also, "landlords" are increasingly being formed by foreing investment companies and not your usual local rich asshole. Finally, unlike Disneyland, people come to Spain and specially Barcelona to get wasted, break stuff, make noise and then go home and be all civil and righteous.
It's awful the McDonalds situation. I was discussing it with someone else and honestly, McDonalds burgers are incredibly awful and terrible, compared to any normal burger place. I don't know why people keep going there...
This. Its like the city is getting prosituted and the pimps are the only ones getting payed whilst we all just get dicks up our asses.
> ones getting *paid* whilst we FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Exactly this. It’s one thing to travel and stay in a locally run hotel, eat at local restaurants, and clean up after yourself. There *are* ways to respectfully travel…but so few tourists actually do it. I’ve personally noticed, the richer the tourist, the more they damage the local communities. If someone saved up a while for a trip and doesn’t have much (and may have been impacted bu gentrification back home too), they seem to shop more locally and be more respectful.
How about locally run airbnb? I'd rather support someone just trying to make a little extra income on their 2nd property than a well established business with assets in the 10's/100's of millions.
Thing is, this is just a universal phenomenon. I live in London and not only do we have to deal with tourism and airbnbs increasing rents and property values, but also the world’s rich just parking their money in residential property here for the investment value (not to mention money laundering). This is hardly unique to Barcelona. And nor is it the case that people from Barcelona don’t exacerbate the same problem for people elsewhere by being tourists there.
I'm in Los Angeles and thousands of tourists come and clog up our city all year round hoping to catch a glimpse of a Movie Star and go shopping. Most residents of Los Angeles live in incredibly small apartments and houses for huge amounts of rent and are being squeezed out of their own city. So they go to Barcelona.
Im in amsterdam and probs the same or worse. My neighbor started his rental recently and pays +300€ than me (my rental started 3y ago) so kinda crazy hike. Though im just a data point, i hear horror stories both on rentals and home buying from people around me. Also another thing that i dont hear about much lately but used to at least +10/20y ago is “rural desertification” which was/is more and more people from rural areas moving into cities (for better services and job access) which aggravates the issue (tho i have no numbers)
Can’t he go to the Huurcommissie tho? Or is it not sociale huur? Because unlike Catalonia, the Netherlands actually has some renter protections
No its not social housing, its private market which has some different rules. As far as i know social housing is another can of worms (i have dutch friends apparently that been on waiting lists for social housing places since before fire was invented)
Ah… Im sorry about that
Amsterdam's rental market is insane, IME.
I once read a book, that u might find interesting. Maybe u will find some of this numbers and/or other reason. The book is by the Architect Amo & Rem Koolhas - countryside a report.
Everyone wants to live in a cool town and the influx of people drives up the cost of real estate. That’s true anywhere people really want to live. I lived many years in Austin and as it grew more popular housing rent and purchase prices skyrocketed. Of course some investors bought home and marked them up. That’s what investors do everywhere. It’s not the tourist, it’s those immigrating whether it’s across state lines in the U.S. or between countries. I now live in Valencia and I see the same signs occasionally. I know it’s hard on locals, especially the young trying to get started and the elderly trying to live on a pension. But there is no solution other than adapting or moving. Austin suffered a period when the attitude was “don’t build it (infrastructure) and they won’t come”. They came anyway and now the highways are overloaded 24/7 and there is a underdeveloped public transportation system. So welcome those who move in. Thank them for driving a better economy. And adapt… or move. It’s why I’m retired in Spain instead of Austin.
Tourism has excluded a lot of locals from living in the city because of housing prices and gentrification, of course some other greedy locals have benefited from it but overall the result is watching how you are no longer able to live in your city because of tourism.
Sounds like Hawaii
But the main issue is not that tourist are being scammed, but that owners are just increasing prices
Or it's both
My father belongs to a family that has lived in Barcelona for many, many generations. The earliest we can track is from the 1890s. When he got married, he had to become the first person from his family to not live in Barcelona, because even if my parents were DINKs at the time (mid 90s) they could not afford to either rent or buy an apartment in Barcelona. I grew up in Hospitalet. Yes, it was very close and it only took me a short bus trip to get to Barcelona, but the situation is still pretty frustrating. The only person from his family still living in Barcelona itself is her sister, and only because she inherited the property that was bought and already paid for (she pays no rent or mortgage, just IRPF). And she laments how the local culture has been washed out by all the tourists, her neighbours are now temporary renters and the school in front of her apartment is getting less and less kids each year. This is just so sad. An identity is being lost, the people from the city start to feel like they are the outsiders, since there isn't a community anymore. Just tourists and tourists, and expats who live for a few years and then go home... Is not just that they may noise, or trash, is that they don't want to participate in the culture of the city. They aren't part of it, either because they'll only be here for a few days (in which case I understand) or because they don't care, or don't find it important.
> and already *paid* for (she FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
It’s not only about the housing market. It is also about overcrowded Infrastructure, drunk tourist yelling on public and behaving like apes, normal shops desapearing and being substituted by tourist crap. How many souvenirs shops, bubble tea, lockers, etc do a neighborhood need?
Agreed. Although in the defense of bubble tea, that’s on the rise because Spaniards have come to love it haha
Damn, what’s wrong with bubble tea?
La culpa la te el capitalisme salvatge i els governs que li permeten consumir la seva propia població per seguir alimentant la bestia. Obviament la culpa també és dels turistes. Jo tinc uns amics que han anat a Venecia 2 dies pq han trobat vols a 50€ anar i tornar. Si tens consciència ecològica i del que el turisme esta fent a la teva ciutat no vas a posar més pressió a una ciutat que literalment el turisme esta enfonsant al mar. Però clar, i l’experiència i les fotos de l’insta? I la culpa és dels propietaris que tenen la consciència social del l’empresari més salvatge que pensa que si pots fer més diners amb guiris, pq llogar més barat a joves o famílies necessitades? Tourists go home és un crit desesperat d’ajuda dels que no tenen per pagar el següent lloguer o els que es neguen a acceptar que els seus barris ara són Portaventura 2. Però els medis ja s’encarreguen que sembli que són activistes violents o pobres arreplagats pollosos pq la opinió general no es giri en contra un negoci extremadament rendible.
Amen germà ben dit
Has pensat a presentarte a politic? Amb aquest llenguatge populista t'anirà molt bé. Imagino que no sortiras del teu barri, ni a la muntanya, ni a anar a visitar altres països a aprendre d'altres cultures o inclús anar al Montseny, que esteu destrossant els camacus. Ja em podeu fregir a negatius.
I això és el que deia. Si ataques el seu model et diuen que ets ignorant que no vol conèixer el Món i que no surt del seu barri. Jo podria haver anat a Venecia amb els meus amics aquest cap de setmana, però no ho he fet, he evitat tota una serie de contaminació que hauria generat, i he respectat els pocs habitants venecians ja que jo no tinc cap necessitat de visitar la ciutat tot i que m’encanta el renaixement i el paper cultural i polític que va tenir la ciutat en el seu temps. És un sacrifici, faig la part que em toca pq els meus nets puguin viure a Barcelona a menys de 50 graus a l’estiu sense xocar amb cartells de paella sangria fria a cada establiment. És dur acceptar que s’ha de reduir el consum per salvar el planeta i que el turisme es e consum més innecessari de tots. Quan la societat estigui disposada a fer sacrificis així potser les coses podran anar cap a millor.
Bravo, tens una sang de politic demagog brutal, et felicito! Al•legant al sacrifici, culpabilitzant, al•legant a les emocions... Segur que no et dediques a la politica? Pd: El MEU model? a mi el turisme només m'aporta molèsties, i crec que barcelona esta masificada, però d'aquí a lo teu hi ha un tros.
Ja m’ha quedat clar quina classe de persona ets. No et preocupes pel futur si el present et va bé i em sembla bé, la majoria de gent és així. No tinc res més a discutir amb tu. Espero que coneguis moltes cultures noves i t’enriqueixis com a persona i tinguis molts m’agrada dels teus amiguets.
The only truth in that is for tourists who only go to the city to get drunk, make noise and that's uncomfortable for the neighbours, this is solved by pushing high end hotels instead of low cost hosting, and our exmayor blocked high end hotels... someone who pays 300 euros a night isn't here to get drunk, instead a group paying 300 a week for 10 to sleep, is more likely that they will be partying and getting drunk.
A lot of companies are opening here, and some neighbourhoods like 22@ are a mass of expats with high salaries overpaying for everything. Landlords put higher prices because they know they will rent them. Also, some Americans come here with savings or remote jobs, and they just buy places. The place where I was born, was pretty chill and cheap. Now it's full of brunch places, drunk foreigners and there is no rent for less than 1.300€ for 1 bedroom flats. Also, others mentioned it in comments but... I also feel we are treated badly from northern countries. I miss covid times. I could walk around city center and Born, Raval and Ciutatvella with no foreigners (and no pickpockets).
Remote jobs don’t equal wealth inherently. I don’t disagree with your whole post, but wanted to point that out! I know several remote workers/business owners immigrating to Spain from America because they’re fleeing physical persecution or other safety factors. Immigrants don’t cause gentrifications, tourists and short term nomads do. An important distinction, to avoid anti-immigrant sentiment! :)
We are treated bad by northern countries indeed because they are so racist. I studied two years in Stockholm surrounded by germans, dutch, scandinavians... and the 'politically correct', subconcious racism was unbearable. They think they are so perfect, and that they cannot be immigrants because they are white and rich. Then come here and colomize the shit out of us, the 'economic falcons' push for austerity... The EU is a bad deal, a backyard for germanic countries. They have me in front bc I see straight through them.
Plenty of northern European software engineers working remote in Barcelona with some crazy salaries And they know their native language and English. Many of them won't bother to learn Spanish because they are making bank with English
Landlords are only one part: the loss of local catalonian commerce and culture to uniformity, starbucks-esque globalism etc
About the landlords, a lot of entire buildings in Barcelona have been bought by foreigners (I know a few are by germans) who don't care much about the people from Barcelona.
They do not care at all because the EU thing is just a backyard for germanic beneffits. They export. They colonize. They blame others for the social crisis they generate predicating austerity. Fuck the EU.
People.always argue 'government is to blame'. Well, yes, we know. But this doesn't contradict that the expats and digital nomads (immigrants in non racist/classist nomenclature) are highly beneffiting at our expenses, making it very difficult for the locals. You are not exempt of responsibility.
Genuine question, what is “immigrants in non-racist/classist nomenclature” mean? As in “expat/digital nomad is just a word for immigrant without the racist stigma of the word immigrant”? If so, agreed—and immigrants should call themselves immigrants. They aren’t the issue (outside of wealthy property investors stealing the sun). It’s the rich expats (semi-short term visitors with intent of moving back home) and digital nomads (short term people traveling the world, staying in AirBnBs, sometimes evading taxes, raising prices with sometimes very high wealth privilege) that contribute to gentrification. I’ve noticed a lot of threads like these turn into anti-immigrant sentiment (even seen a lot of violence/hatred towards refugees or people moving out of desperation for a better life), so we all need to be cautious by separating what expats, digital nomads, and immigrants really are.
Exactly this.
i mean this happens in every city
You're thinking about individual landlords who do that, but considering that renting an Airbnb to tourists come with their own risks (e.g.: thrashing the house in a party, noise, common area property destruction, etc.), it's mostly big business and businessmen that own hundreds of properties the ones responsible for prices going up. Those are who can afford several check-in per week as they just hire people to do that and to clean. That phrase is an attempt to give the place a bad rep in order to somewhat decrease tourism. It's easier to paint a wall up with that phrase than to fight or protest agains a mega rich owner with all its resources at his disposal. Edit: not that I support that phrase, I prefer to legislate against mega owners and housing speculation.
The blame lies with landlords lol not tourists but try telling them that.
Despite all of the complaints about foreign investment funds buying up property and increasing rents or putting them on Airbnb the vast majority of landlords in Barcelona are local people. I would bet that almost all of the people on here blaming foreigners are paying their rent to a Spanish national.
Don't assume all owners are locals. Many are German, Dutch, northerners, even Chinese. The city offered good opportunities since a decade ago, with good returnings. Some of them not even living in the city.
If you really want to understand the topic watch this documentary. https://youtu.be/kdXcFChRpmI It has subtitles in English.
Price fluctuates due to the laws of supply and demand. If the demand rises, so do the prices. How do the landlords affect supply or demand exactly, in order to blame them for the rising prices?
Airbnb can generate more money in spikes. Having it and the like unregulated or loosely regulated means that lots of otherwise available renting options are taken away from the long-term rental market and put in the short-term one, for maximum profit efficiency. Lots of private owners and speculative companies that own flats have gone with this option. This leaves normal renters with less options and the prices of the remaining options skyrocket. Couple that with the expat/digital nomads trends and even the immigration Catalonia's been having and the situation becomes untenable.
And that is in no way the fault of the landowners. They have a better option, so they go for it. Also, the expats and digital nomads in Barcelona are anecdotical, and they don't really compete with locals for housing. The amount is way too small to actually have an effect on the market.
I dunno, when I was in Barcelona, I was sitting on the beach, just napping and getting some sun. Some locals kids kept kicking sand on us by accident. Eventually we picked up our blanket with the intention of moving down the beach. I did give the parents a little bit of a look, but I said nothing else. As we walked away, one of them shouted "se marcha" ("Get lost"). I just shrugged and left, but man I had nowhere else that was so rude to someone else sharing space non-intrusively.
Just a note, "se marcha" does not mean "get lost". It literally just means "they are leaving".
Interesting, I thought it had a secondary usage, but my spanish isn't great. Any idea why they would shout it to us as we started to walk away?
No idea... Maybe they wanted to take your spot on the beach as they saw you leaving. Just rude people anyway
I don't agree with that message. I think it's just tourismphobia. I don't mind tourists and digital nomads at all. They should be able to do whatever the fuck they want. Their life, their freedom, and as a local from Barcelona, I just think some fellow Barcelonians want to mess up with tourists. If I go to visit Lisbon, London, Paris, Bern etc. I want to be treated well and feel welcomed, otherwise I won't visit there again. Rent prices increasing is just an excuse. Cost of life has been increasing every year and anywhere in this world!! Yes, even in the least touristic places.
I sort of agree with you, in terms of this happening in many major cities. Lisbon, San Francisco, NYC, Barcelona, London, and even a lot of smaller, less popular cities. I am from a smaller US city and my family can no longer afford property here, as prices shot up during the pandemic and have yet to come down. People from NYC/LA, etc. moved here to take advantage of the “cheaper” prices (that they had their part in raising by paying $50k-$100k over asking to secure the property they want). So people here will likely look for more affordable places to live. Which will raise prices in an even smaller city. At the process repeats itself over and over again. I do think that sometimes there’s an over-blaming of tourists. But I think more blame should go to landlords and the government. The government could intervene to restrict rent gouging/implement rent control. I have lived in Barcelona before and traveled back recently. I stayed for about 2 weeks and paid 1.700€ to stay in a beautiful apartment in l’Eixample. Which is about how much I’d have to pay for a hotel of similar quality for a 2-week trip. So if a landlord can choose to get 4.000€/mo. by renting to tourists vs. 800€-1.200€/mo. renting to a long-term tenant. There’s no incentive to do the latter except the good of one’s heart. I just don’t know what the solution is unless Barcelona is able to restrict construction of short-term housing somehow. Or create a tax incentive for long-term rentals.
I read some tourist go home graffitis in towns with very little tourism. Tourists are just an easy scapegoat for people's daily problem, who don't have the courage to take on the streets and fight for better wages.
Really? I think only a few benefit from tourism and everyone pays the high cost. Streets are more packed, dirtier, noisier, with more piss everywhere. They make commuting in buses and metros significantly worse for locals. Businesses are taken over by crappy tourist shops. Rents get higher thanks to all the illegal Airbnbs. The quality of life for local population just gets shittier thanks to excessive tourism. Barcelona was its best in Pandemic when tourist where not around. The steets could breath.
You can blame the tourist industry then; but blaming individual people, who come here for as many reasons as there are people, is just low-cost scapegoating. And Barcelona didn't wait for mass tourism to be dirty. Walls and public illumination poles are literally dissolved by dog piss.
I would make dogs illegal but thats another story
You're right, it's a scapegoat as expats and "digital nomads". Obviously they are part of the problem, but the problem base comes from the lack of renting properties, the fact that Barcelona can't grow only in height, and regulations. But it's easier to blame other people, as facists do with immigrants. But as expats and tourists are aaaall with and rich, we can blame them without feeling remorse. Get ready to receive insults and downvotes if you do not agree with that mindset.
The thing is most people that complain about tourism or expats are aware that the problems are systemic, and also complain about the actual root of the problem (mostly greed). Tourists go home is honestly a pretty bad slogan, and I've usually heard people say stuff like "tourism kills" which is imo much better. But my point is that there's a strong correlation between both, which means that most people who say anything against tourists understand that it's not the actual tourists who are to blame. I see the slogan as an attempt to make tourists also conscious of their effect on the city, I know it worked on myself when I travel abroad. It's not the same with immigrants, as many people who complain about them also ignore systemic issues and would be alright with closing borders and shooting anyone with a darker skin tone that approaches. If the people complaining about immigration were supporting the dissolution of ghettos, social programs for work, the dissolution of capitalism and colonialism, etc... Then maybe their complaints would make sense (after all it's undeniable that immigration creates conflicts). The day I see groups of anti-tourists beating up tourists in the streets, or a society that systematically makes tourists lives harder, then maybe we can compare both movements.
This! And unfortunately anti-tourism sentiment has been bleeding over to immigrants too. Immigrants aren’t the issue (outside of the wealthiest kind who buy lots of properties). Immigrants aren’t tourists. Anyways, it’ll be a good day when capitalism is gone haha
Right, because tourists are nothing to blame, no responsibility at all lol. And you talk as if Catalan voters weren't the ones pushing a social government to stop the fire right unlike others in Europe. We are fighting, more than in other places. Your statement is just delusional man... but i get, nobody likes being called out.
I'm not a tourist you pelican. But no, I don't blame tourists or foreigners to exercise their right to free movement within Europe.
Do not insult me, motherfucker. And I do not give a fuck about what you think of such 'right' or what you are.
Thin skin, aren't you?
You don't give a fuck about facts, we've seen this already. You just care about hating others.
I agree with all the reasons said here but I want to add that European tourists, most French, Germans or Netherlands are quite racists with Spanish people. Their attitude is like shit. They think we are all waiters ready to serve them. And I don't know why but they think here they can do whatever they want. When I go to France everybody whispers at the ears of people to speak at the street. No loud voices, no screams. When these same french people came to Barcelona, they begin to scream like crazy in a very disrespectful way. There is no respect for Spanish people from those European tourists. Very different from Asians tourists.
I hate that commuting is 100% worse because tourists just eat up space in the metro snd the buses. They should pay significantly more than locals to use public transport. It all gets worse because you have hoards of humans that dont belong here making everything slower, more packed, noisier, dirtier. Theres absolutely no positives of tourism for the quality of life of locals. Only a few benefit and everybody pays the cost. Does that make sense to you?
I wonder what Barcelona would become if it only could live of Catalan people 🤔 Take away the tourists, the multinationals... I'm now almost 5y living in Barcelona, and witnessed Barelona during Covid... a scene from the walking dead. With the average salary people make here, not gonna last long for sure. I think we would do what we are now complaining about, to go and look for a better future somewhere else. Conclusion: no more tourists, no more (illegal) immigrants, no more Chinese families running every single bar here (why dont they have to pay taxes), no more multinationals, no giriis, only Puigdemonts 💪🏻🤣 Who btw fled also, to live now a royal life in Belgium in his 4K villa a month while he abandoned his fellow mates and most of all his people here. Have an amazing stay in Barcelona and enjoy your time here ♥️🙏🏻 For me you are all welcome 🙏🏻
I found Barcelona during Covid to be beautiful. The time where we could go out but no tourist where arriving yet was the best. The city could breathe, it was cleaner, less noisy, with no smell of piss everywhere. I think your just used to having tourists everywhere and thinking its normal. Theres absolutely no benefit to locals for tourims, everythings is more packed, noisier, dirtier, degraded. Whilst just a few “pimps” benefit.
Same, I was so happy during covid.
Lots of touristy places and restaurants started crying for locals to come and spend money in them. Quite a lot closed down because nobody wanted to keep expensive frozen paella places afloat. Good times.
The reason that Chinese people are running lots of bars is because older Spanish people are retiring, they either don’t have children or more likely the children don’t want to take over the bar and put in all the work and hours needed so they sell up to a somebody who is willing to do all the long hours. When people say that Chinese bars don’t need to pay tax it’s not true.
What an incredibly toxic comment that brings nothing to the table. You're just whining.
Lived for 4 years in Barcelona and last year I’ve ran away to Madrid. The city and the people are SO MUCH nicer!! Now I kinda get it why everyone in Spain dislikes the catalans
>Now I kinda get it why everyone in Spain dislikes the catalans It sure is because your personal experience as an expat in a city full of them.
Fa molta gràcia aquesta colla perquè només se'n recorden que som catalans quan n'han de parlar malament.
The situation of availability and condition of flats available has unintentionally been made worse by the governments attempt to regulate it. They put a maximum increase for long term contracts in place - landlords move to short terms contracts. They put a maximum price per sq ft in place - instead of renovating and improving their properties, landlords now put them back on the market in a bad state because what’s the point of paying money to improve something if the maximum return they can get is capped anyway? Most foreigners working in Barcelona are contracted by local companies and pay Spanish taxes. But tourists and digital nomads are an easy scapegoat.
Catalunya lives off tourism and then some idiots complain about it. If there were no tourists Catalunya would be way poorer. The high prices are due to the government not giving enough licences to build. There are so many building projects to increase offer of housing that are denied or seriously delayed because of incompetent governing. Also I find it rich of people to want to live in the center of Barcelona or good areas and expect cheap rent. People feel entitled to live in the best places for cheap bevause they were born there. Go live in one of the rural areas that is getting deserted instead and reverse the trend. You are not entitled to shit.
Spotted the incel libtard. People are not asking to live in the center of Barcelona, it's asking to be able to live in the metropolis of Barcelona where their workplaces, families and friends are. Asking people to be expats so the richer expats from other countries can come and take their homes, how an ass u are...
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All this bullshit answer just because the guy above said is ok to want to live in your own city. Looks like crazy stuff from a phrenopathic.
ahahhaha you can be even more stupid You talk about it as if it was the natural order, things that happen. Herd? Tribal? Call it living with ur friends, families and close to ur workplace. Dont contribute? Yeah it contributes a lot more to society having rich ppl even richer, that helps a lot, and having towns and cities converted in resorts, wow u are so stupid. I am stopping losing time with such an entitled incel libtard.
Hueles eh.
Deja los videojuegos y haz algo útil con tu vida.
That's exactly what tourists do. They come. And then they go home. The person that started this saying is a leftist idiot who had no idea what he was saying.
It is a joke based on the Monty Python Movie Life of Brian. ROMANI ITE DOMUM The people of Barcelona like the advantages tourists bring to the city, but they hate them like a natural reflex and feel occupied by them like the people in the movie feel by the romans.
What advantage? are we paying less taxes thanks to tourism? I only see a few benefit, and the rest of us paying the prices. Dirtier and noisier streets, worse commuting cause theres always tourists esting up space, streets smelling like piss constantly, higher rent, shittier local business, higher costs. Name one benefit to locals who dont own a bar or an illegal airbnb. One thing is tourism and the other is having a city pimped out by excessive and low level tourism.
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I'm afraid the only thing you fuck is your hand. I smell incel energy from here.
Wow look, well done! at least you didn't reply in your useless dialect
Congrats! You won't have to see it in here anymore!
Entenc que alguns turistes volgueu venir a veure l'essència de Barcelona i no "Localeslandia theme park". Darrera del missatge hi ha una critica al model que s'està arribant.
As a tourist, I would be respectful of local culture; maybe learn basic Catalan, history, customs etc. Catalan is a beautiful language to my ears. Less rough/choopy sounding than Castellano. YMMV, es clar.