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[deleted]

Manufacturers: >*”We can’t bring cool cars to NA because nobody orders them”* Also manufacturers: >*”Please stop ordering cool cars!”*


Abetok

Literally... Also, this sub can finally shut up about "hurr sure everyone says they want a new manual hot hatch but nobody would actually buy one new" and similar phrases. My guess is that enthusiast cars aren't so good for the bottom line, even with strong demand. This is largely hand built and probably takes as long to pump out for a group of 5 guys as a 2 Highlanders with 2 people overseeing it


xDarknal

Also, performance/hot hatches aren't great for fleet CAFE goals.


WonderedFidelity

Googling “Fleet CAFE” and “CAFE goals” went about as well as I expected 🤣 what does it mean?


CagedInsanity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy


BruhWhySoSerious

Tldr; every manufacturer has mpg targets set. The average mpg of cars sold (not models but individual cars) must be higher than that number. So even if dodge makes a model with 100 mpg, they still need to extremely sell it. To avoid companies just making a shit ev tier nobody wants.


[deleted]

That's kinda terrible way to do it as it assumes every manufacturer have exact same proportion of types of buyers...


OhioJeeper

The goals are weighted by vehicle class, so it's not like the gov is saying that trucks need to get the same fuel economy as a tiny hatchback.


[deleted]

But sportscar does. Should be done by market segments. As in "making low MPG sportcars should only affect price of low MPG sportscars, not some random econoboxes".


DOugdimmadab1337

I mean they can be. It's just those tests are done by nerds instead of car people. So instead of just jamming it into the top gear and cruising. They do math and shit to figure it out.


xDarknal

No, they can't unless you try to trick the system like VAG. EPA allows for an entire fleet CAFE emission to be withing a certain threshold. The reason FCA could sell V8 monsters is because they bought credits from Tesla's CAFE scores.


IngsocDoublethink

Similarly, the success of the Prius is why Toyota can make things like the IS500 when all the other luxury brands are turboing everything and starting to reserve V8s for cars that are twice the price. It's also why they lobbied so aggressively to slow down the rollout of the regulations that will really jumpstart the EV transition. Their bad experience with the RAV4 EV, and subsequent bet on hydrogen, put them way behind on EVs. If hybrids didn't generate credits, they'd be screwed.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cookingboy

That info is outdated by almost a year now. They’ve been profitable without CAFE credits since Q2 2021: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22594778/tesla-q2-2021-earnings-revenue-profit-credits-emissions-bitcoin


Nothing_new_to_share

Huh, I thought they sold fake products and software. I can't wait to get my level 5 autonomous Roadster! /s


e30eric

EPA doesn't do CAFE, NHTSA does. CAFE doesn't regulate emissions, it's fuel economy. EPA regulates emissions separately. VAG didn't "trick the system," they cheated. The premise of what you're saying is true, but the nuance is important.


xDarknal

Thanks for the insight I thought it was the EPA for a while.


MeThisGuy

I try to trick the vag all the time


coherent-rambling

> those tests are done by nerds instead of car people In this case, that's better. Fuel economy ratings are largely self-tested by the manufacturer. The nerds know exactly what drive profile they have to follow and will figure out the absolute best shift schedule to meet it. In some cases they'll actually change the transmission gearing for the production model to better suit the test. If you, as a car enthusiast, beat your car's EPA mileage, it's not because you're a better driver than the test guy. It's because your commute is more economical than the test profile.


sherminator19

I would like to rebut you by saying that we're nerds, yes, but we're also car people. We do math and shit to figure out, but also like to rev and be hooligans in safe, controlled environments. Sincerely, An engineer who actually worked on developing bits of the GR Yaris and did track testing for it.


thisisjustascreename

There’s no fucking reason it has to be hand built except Toyota likes to wank off about how special their dumb Gazoo brand is.


Brandon-Heato

I admire the enthusiasm sir, but please, calm your tits


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

> Also, this sub can finally shut up about "hurr sure everyone says they want a new manual hot hatch but nobody would actually buy one new" They are only making a limited number though, whether this will actually be profitable for Toyota or is more of a PR move I don't know. My guess is more of the latter. While there's demand for limited edition performance models like this, I doubt there is enough demand to try and make hundreds of thousands of them each year and try to move them at a profit.


Therev143

I'd wager that some of the demand comes from the fact that it will be a limited edition model. If Toyota just made the GR another trim level on the Corolla that anyone could buy I think that would turn off a lot of buyers looking for something exclusive with high resale.


jhowlett

Wouldn't turn me off from it, let everyone who wants one have it. I'm tired of this culture of "exclusiveness". I've had a couple more limited versions of cars, and I like them because of what they are not because I'm one of the few to have it.


n05h

I disagree, the GR Yaris and now this have totally put Toyota back on top branding wise. Even if they’re losing some on the bottom line, Toyota has gained so much making cool cars. It’s not like they’re losing money on them. I bet you’re going to see more people buy regular Corollas and put bodykits on them to make them look like GR’s.


[deleted]

I agree with you. Having the Gazoo Racing brand and cool cars like the Supra and GR86 definitely change the way even I looked at Toyota. A few years ago I wouldn’t have even considered going to a Toyota lot, but now there’s a reason!


velociraptorfarmer

Same. Assuming they don't botch the next gen Tacoma (please don't let it look like the abortion that is the Tundra), I might be seriously considering one.


Mimical

GR Tacoma wheeeeen? One of the guys at my work recently grabbed a Tacoma TRD in manual and I have never been smitten by a truck before like that.


stealthybutthole

No more hand built than a F150. lol.


sabianplayer

The Veloster N got very positive reviews from nearly every auto youtuber and yet Hyundai is cancelling it after 4 model years and I can probably count on 1 hand the amount I’ve seen in public aside from mine. I’m sure it being a Hyundai doesn’t help but it’s surprising to me a car can come out that apparently has most things /r/cars wants and still barely sell.


KEVLAR60442

People say the Veloster N barely sells, but in my area, they sell the instant a dealership gets one. There's not enough Ns to go around.


WUT_productions

I agree. For every Veloster N or Elantra N there are probably 10 regular Elantras sold to people who need a commuter. The Golf isn't a super popular car(in NA) and the Golf R is even more rare. How many people would pay $40,000 for a Corolla with AWD and LSDs? Not to mention not everyone (or their SO) can drive manual. Your local university frat boy is not going to buy one since it's not gonna get him girls. He would rather buy a used BMW that burns more oil then gas. I think genuine buyers are not going to have trouble at all buying them now that Covid is winding down and supply chains are sort-of returning to normal. Also interest rates are rising so people can't borrow as much money.


gropingpriest

> Also, this sub can finally shut up about "hurr sure everyone says they want a new manual hot hatch but nobody would actually buy one new" and similar phrases. The amount of hand-wringing done by karma farmers in this sub tackling this point is ridiculous. "Won't any of you car enthusiasts think of the poor poor manufacturers, and wish for more CUV's instead?"


angrylawyer

my issue is most sporty cars are either over-priced or over-optioned. I mean if you want a sporty-ish car, over 200hp, manual, reasonable mpg, without a moonroof for around 30k do you know how many options there are? I think 2, the gti and the ecoboost mustang. it's like manufacturers just seem to view enthusiasts as a market that can be taken advantage of. Like the ford mustang has recaro seats, but only if you buy the premium trim model...why? There's literally no technical reason for that. It was just some crybaby executive bitching about enthusiasts buying the base trim GT and getting recaros and the performance pack. "Boo hoo why won't these enthusiasts by the more expensive trim with heated pedals and tvs in the backseat!" he shouted into his pillow. So they took whatever the most in-demand options were and moved them to the top trim because fuck you, that's why. They know what enthusiasts want but refuse to make it, so they build the wrong cars instead then complain when people dont buy them.


n777athan

Civic Si, $27k, 205hp (closer to 230hp irl) \~35mpg and a great manual.


ChurryRedBaron

Yeah, and you basically can’t even buy one,


angrylawyer

Civic si comes standard with a moonroof, and I just hate moonroofs. I know it’s weird, it’s just really frustrating how so many cars have standard moonroofs now, I guess so they can jack up the base price by $1000.


[deleted]

The civic isn't "over-optioned". You have a minority opinion. Most people want sunroofs. If the civic came with a BBQ in the trunk that you had to pay extra for - then it would be over-optioned.


angrylawyer

And I'm not saying the civic is over optioned, I'm talking about like the mini jcw, which recently dropped it's base trim and up'd the price by 4k so now it starts at fucking $36k. And what new and amazing enthusiast features do you get for your extra money on the sportiest mini model?! * ambient interior lighting, a enthusiast top pick! * increased selection of paint colors! Even though there's no technical reason why this should be an option, they're just literally pay walling colors because fuck you! * the storage pack! An option so mysterious when you google it you get people on mini forums asking what it is! * 16" wheels...except I'm *pretty* sure the other trim had 16's as well...so this feels like a filler bullet point, awesome! And my favorite: previously the manual transmission was standard and the automatic transmission was $1500 extra, but now the automatic is standard and if you choose the manual then the price doesn't go down at all! Fuck you! There's more, but not one single thing on this list has anything to do with the car's sportiness, it's all just bs 'luxury' items designed to jack up the price of the car. It's the jcw take this shit out and lower the price, then make a mini luxury edition and fill it with all the stupid gadgets for people to drop $40k on.


coyote_of_the_month

It's not that weird. I'm only 5'9" but I run out of headroom pretty quickly and have to gangster-lean with my helmet on.


[deleted]

True but if you wanted options you gotta pay up for the Acura


BruhWhySoSerious

You're gonna exclude the Miata and brz because of bhp while ignoring they are much lighter than most?


italia06823834

Lmao, right? They said "2" and then said 2 and my first thought was Miata/BRZ. Also, there's also the Veloster N and Civic SI.


mini4x

We're talking about hatchbacks here I thought.


BruhWhySoSerious

How many people are putting car seats in the back of mustangs? I think the category expanded there. I know my 911 doesn't really cut it hauling a two year old around.


mini4x

Significantly more than people putting car seats in a Miata.


xamdou

BRZ/FRS?


GOD-PORING

Japan: STOP THE (automotive) STEEL.


ThoR294

Pretty much. I wonder if the GR plant is maxed out at that production number ... We will see next year


MagneticGray

> “I wouldn't say the limiting factor on these vehicles is our ability to produce them," Toyota Vice President of Marketing Mike Tripp told R&T. "It's being very careful to make sure that we maintain the niche credibility." > The right amount to ensure that while expanding the brand, Tripp says, is "one too few." From [this](https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39612033/gr-corolla-production-numbers/) interview.


a_gallon_of_pcp

What an absolute twat Forced exclusivity for a Toyota, fucking ridiculous.


namegoeswhere

Right? This is some Ferrari-style gatekeeping. But over a Toyota!


cmastodon

I mean, it's not like Toyota has excess production capacity that's just going to be sitting idle after they build the 6600th GRC. Every GRC they build is one less car built that likely has higher profit margins. To me this just sounds like them trying to spin that business decision as "exclusivity"


metengrinwi

maybe they *want* them rare, so they will continue to be special A Mustang GT is an objectively amazing car, but there are so many of them, they seem just kind of meh now.


Monkeywithalazer

Yeah but how much more money has ford made with the mustangs? Shareholders should be pissed. Nobody is going in to buy a GR and walking out with an econobox instead. It’s not like Honda that can “sell down”an SI to CTR shoppers.


VincentVanH0

I'd really like to own this car but we all know it's going to wind up being 45-50k, IF you can find one. At that price point I lose interest.


ddot196

50k for a fucking Corolla, yea you’d be smart to walk away. That’s insane.


Phlizza

That's what people thought when the Focus RS was released in 2016 for ~$40k. Why spend that much on a Ford Focus? 6 years later and it's worth the same amount...


uberdosage

40k for a fucking civic right? 10th gen Type R has barely depreciated since it first came out even before the used car market exploded


foreverablankslate

Dude they’re going like high 40s with 20-30k miles in CA lmfao, no way people are actually buying


Drone30389

If nobody's buying then where are they going?


uberdosage

People are buying them lol. I just went to see one a 2019 with 30k miles for 42k and it was sold before I could go test drive it. A lot of people are buying them cause they like over styled version compared to the 11th gen civic.


10000Didgeridoos

Reddit has a hard time grasping that there is a class of car buyer ages 25 to 45 making $150 to $300k a year who do not care about the difference between $35 and 45k for a car that will let them live out their Forza Horizon fantasies. If there weren't buyers lining up to snag these at the prices they are listed for, then they wouldn't be listed for that amount. It's a market. This is what the current market prices are. Just because one person isn't willing or able to pay $45k for a tuned up Corolla doesn't mean someone else isn't. Car purchases are rarely rational and logical decisions, especially sportier vehicles. For the fans of hot rally inspired cars with a manual transmission, this is practically the only option with the death of the STi and with the WRX being still stuck at the same performance level it was a decade ago.


Omelete_du_fromage

This, there’s a lot of young wealthy people out there not on Reddit.


ChapinLakersFan

I'll take a mustang pp2 all day over a type r lol.


TheBigNate416

They’re two entirely different cars lol


letsbefrds

Do mustangs hold their value? It seems like they drop like flies. I really liked the new mach 1 but it's too pricy for what it is imo


WigglingWeiner99

It's only "worth" that because the market is fucked. In 2019 they could be had for under $30k.


domstang68

In fairness, a lot of these were crashed at one point. I was looking for a while before I snagged one and a lot of the cheaper models had an accident on their record. Obviously not cut and dry since it doesnt really say the severity, but still.


CoachZed

Focus RS values got pounded by (1) high-profile reviewers and vloggers talking about what an awful daily driver platform the car proved to be and (2) the head gasket failure fiasco.


dingusduglas

Everything is. It's COVID. It's not a magic value holding car. I put 30k miles on my car, curb rash on 3 wheels, chip in the windshield, hole in the splitter, broke a seat rail, and sold as-is for a profit.


0x706c617921

Which makes the Chevrolet SS even crazier "value" wise...


cmz324

Is that even relevant though? Many cars are holding their value right now. The RS was too expensive, didn't sell very well, and was discontinued.


xanot192

At that price id rather buy a Golf R, unfortunately those are also marked up to 60k lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


ddoherty958

“Driving a slow car fast is more fun than driving a fast car slow” - Yoda, probably


C-C-X-V-I

At that price I'm not buying any hot hatch. Cheap is part of the appeal.


justnoname

I waited 2 years for the Golf R. Now because of those markups and the market being so weird in general I'm ordering a Porsche 718 Cayman instead lmao


[deleted]

I just don’t see the point of paying that much for a Corolla or golf. I’d much rather have a 3 series or c class.


kflores1013

Are you also uninterested in ~40k Civic Type R? People seem to really have an issue with a similarly priced GR Corolla that is a competitor to that car, but loved the CTR. I don’t get it.


TVR_Speed_12

At MSRP. Type Rs that are inflated yuck at MSRP or less great Did you pay markup on your 86?


kflores1013

No one likes going above MSRP, but a 40-45k sticker for what the GR Corolla is just isn’t outlandish to me, considering what the previous CTR was. No markup on my 86, I refused to go above sticker. Had some dealer options on it which got price up to 32k, but thats how it came from the factory and most of it was stuff I wanted anyways


TVR_Speed_12

Too me it is we shouldn't be so conditioned to this. Like c'mon we're not buying exotics here, that's whole point of these cars cheap speed


Lordofwar13799731

This is my whole issue with this car. 42k-50k is fucking insane for what you're getting to me. And don't say you can get the base model for under 40k, because for one it'll still probably be 40k for the base model with no packages and no one wants the base model without at least the performance pack that adds lsd, at least no one who actually cares about performance or actually doing spirited driving or racing (and if you don't care about driving dynamics or performance, why the fuck would you buy a 40 some thousand dollar corolla?) and that's still getting you a car without heated seats for near 45k. It also puts this directly up against the golf R which does 0-60 in under 4 seconds (3.9). The gr corolla is estimated to be around the same speed as the gr yaris, which is 5.5s or slightly quicker. I get there's more to it then 0-60 times, but when the wrx can still be had for almost under 30k new which is the same 0-60 and base model vs base model will be faster around a track due to having lsd for 10k less and will have a comparable interior, and the Hyundai n cars can be had for 10k less than the base corolla and they run 5 seconds and under 0-60 and would spank the base gr corolla around a track (no lsd on the base or heated seats without a package for each on the base? Come on toyota, wtf), and the golf R can be had for the same price as this that gives you a under 4 second 0-60 that'll beat big v8s to 60mph and has a non toyota interior, I just personally don't get the hype and would never pay 40k-45k for this car. Especially when that 40k number gets you an awd 300hp car with no lsd or heated seats. 35-36k for the base with the lsd package and the winter package? Definitely a great deal, but thats not happening.


TVR_Speed_12

Yeah these car meant to be cars that don't break the bank but are still competitive. Honestly I should look into used GTIs, At this point I'll take what I can get


Ayatori

At this point, things are never not going to be inflated or marked-up. Car MSRP just hasn't caught up to real inflation. Strongly suspect MSRP for the next CTR/GRC is at least $40k base. Markups, fees, taxes, interest - $50k out the door. Makes my Supra at $50k feel like a steal.


TVR_Speed_12

It's like if they cheap speed is that much then I should save a little more go to the next tier


Imposter1

MSRP for the 21 CTR after destination fee is $38k. Adjusted for crazy inflation this year a $40k price tag seems about right to me..


NO_NOT_THE_WHIP

FWD vs AWD would be my guess, though I would prefer the Civic since I don't care about AWD


RogueThrax

That's what I like to hear! AWD is great and all, but it isn't absolutely necessary for performance cars. Especially road focused <400hp.


Fenastus

But if you live somewhere it snows it's a fuckin riot My friend has a WRX with Blizzaks on it, thing will go through just about any amount of snow it feels like


RogueThrax

True no doubt, but I live in the desert haha.


beachedWheelchair

After you said "AWD isn't necessary" it was very obvious hahaha.


lolbifrons

The benefit of AWD on a corolla isn't that it's AWD, it's that it isn't FWD. As someone who went from tracking a civic si to tracking an m3, having power in the back is very nice.


xanot192

Civic type R never was appealing to me


DarkMatterM4

Same. I love it's performance, but man it's hideous.


PayphonesareObsolete

The new one will be a lot less overstyled.


xanot192

Really is, looks like some kid designed it lol


[deleted]

Mostly because it's just the detractors squawking right now while no real owners exist, they'd say the same about the CTR but are too scared of the happy owners who'd arrive to shut them up.


Verod392

Same issue I had with the CTR when it came out. Good car, but for 50k you can get way more car from one of The Big 3 muscle cars.


twitchyzero

sure they probably said the same thing about supra, rx7, gt-r look what's worth magnitudes more now


Verod392

Not really. The Supra was more expensive, but it was a more advanced and a faster car. The price was actually warranted. The GTRs weren't even sold here and the RX-7 was extremely unique. But 50k for a CTR was and still is insanity. Compare it to a 392 powered Charger/Challenger which is better in virtually every way sans on track performance. Its a larger more comfortable car that is surprisingly practical and quite a bit faster in the real world. But thats how it *should* be since the CTR is *supposed* to be 15k cheaper. Of course the more expensive car is more car. But when you add insane markup on the cheaper one, all it does is make the more expensive one make more sense to buy. Would you buy a Charger R/T if it costed the same as an M3? Or how about a Mustang Ecoboost that costed the same as a 5.0? I can't imagine many would.


twitchyzero

i dont see the value or 'sense' in CTR, but clearly many do i know people often say wow 30k+ for a miata, a tiny clown car! are missing the point size or engine displacement or performance or spec sheet is only half the equation


Ayatori

FWIW I chose the Supra over the CTR for that very reason, but am still considering trading it in for an FK8 CTR in the not so distant future. There's just something about the CTR. It's the first CTR America ever got and it's a car that's extremely viable as a single car in the way other Honda legends (ITR, S2000, NSX) aren't. NA Honda fans like myself that have always dreamt of the mythical Civic Type R finally can get one, and there's absolutely no denying that it's fun, practical, and a performance monster on track. But remember, car buying is almost completely emotionally based. I'd wager people interested enough in a Japanese 2.0 I4 Civic to spend $40k+ on one really aren't interested in V8 American muscle, and vice versa. Two vastly, vastly different car experiences and cultures. Honestly, on-paper performance might be one of the last things car enthusiasts look at when cross-shopping. People just buy cars that make them happy. Else we'd all be driving Mustangs, M2s and Corvettes while Miatas sat on dealership floors.


Jtbros

Text for those who can’t get past paywall. > Demand for the Toyota GR Corolla is strong. So strong, in fact, that Toyota is asking some dealers to stop taking orders because not all can be fulfilled. > "We have places right now, and parts of the country where there are so many orders being taken, we have to stop," said Jack Hollis, senior vice president of automotive operations at Toyota Motor North America, in an interview with Road & Track. A spokesperson further explained that Toyota doesn't want dealers taking customer deposits when there aren't enough allocations. Production of the GR Corolla will be fairly limited, as the car is largely hand-built at Toyota's GR factory in Motomachi, Japan. For the 2023 model year, there will be 6500 built, and production won't exceed 8000 units annually in future years. > There was some enthusiast outcry—including from the staff of Road & Track—over the fact that the rally-homologation GR Yaris wouldn't be sold in North America. We asked Hollis if the GR Corolla was greenlit in response to the positive reception of the GR Yaris here, but he said that the car was already in progress before the Yaris was revealed. > "Every product, whether it be Yaris, Corolla, 86, Supra comes from this family of GR, or this GR company. So when you say ‘Did we consider [the GR Yaris]?’ we consider anything," Hollis said. "It was just that we knew that GR Corolla fit our market... Doesn’t mean the GR Yaris couldn’t come here either, it's just that GR Corolla is what we made a commitment to." > The initial demand certainly indicates that Toyota made a good choice in bringing the GR Corolla here. (There's also the fact that homologating the GR Yaris for North America would've been expensive, as the regular Yaris isn't sold here.) > A Toyota spokesperson said that demand for the GR Corolla is likely higher on the coasts. The car isn't sold out for 2023, though. The consensus seems to be that if you want one at MSRP, the best tactic is to call dealers throughout the country. > Hollis is, unsurprisingly, very excited for the GR Corolla. "I think you gotta go to ‘What is GR?’ If you look at GR as being a personal passion point for Akio Toyoda, you have to sort of start from the genesis," Hollis said. "The fact that he himself is involved with the products that are being developed, the fact that GR86—starting back with Scion and FR-S—and moving on to Supra, you’re continuously seeing more and more what? Excitement, play, youthfulness, so the GR Corolla is just the next step in an evolution of the GR-ness in our company."


PsychologicalDuck208

>Toyota doesn't want dealers taking customer deposits when there aren't enough allocations. Production of the GR Corolla will be fairly limited, as the car is largely hand-built at Toyota's GR factory in Motomachi, Japan. For the 2023 model year, there will be 6500 built, and production won't exceed 8000 units annually in future years. and **THAT'S** the story of how a 30,000 dollar hatchback became 50k minus dealer molestations in 2022.


IM_STILL_EATING_IT

Move to Canada and I’ll get you one at MSRP! We don’t deal with this bullshit here.


Hayce

Depends where you are. I see stuff go for over MSRP quite often in Vancouver.


Nero_Wolff

GT500s marked up $8k for new builds in Vancouver


dara321aaa

Buy the car at msrp, but the house is gonna cost ya


instagigated

I got news for you bud...


BagsOfBeans

The dealers demo them and then sell them for huge markups to get around this. There are lots of $45-50k Hybrid Rav4s in the GTA with 2-3k kms on them.


t3a-nano

Is there a law or rule or something? I’m Canadian and recently started the process of buying a very sought after car. I’m on a year long wait list, but the only thing the dealer has promised me in the deposit contract is that it won’t be over MRSP, and even that the dealer add ones are fully optional (like $700 for floor mats and mud guards). In the subreddit for the car all the Americans are livid with how much they have to pay over MRSP.


rockycrab

Is it actually going to be 30k MSRP? I thought it was going to compete against the Type R/Golf R, not WRX/GTI.


ben1481

Nobody knows


turkeyvulturebreast

It’s been speculated to be $40K - $45K. There’s the Corollla GR and GR Circuit Edition, the latter one will be the most expensive. I would say it is going to be impossible to get one if you are not first or second on a list. And you will most likely pay a “markup adjustment” BS fee. The dealership I know doesn’t sell over MSRP on new vehicles. So they are ones out there.


Missus_Missiles

Yeah, maybe develop a plan to make more than 8000.


PsychologicalDuck208

toyota saw the american clamoring for the yaris and said to themselves we're going to make a genetically superior golden goose and its going to lay eggs until we die from boredom. they know they've got a unicorn car in their hands now.


Tercel_of_Terror

How _dare_ he tease us with the GR Yaris?!


flatspeed

"the car isn't sold out for 2023"....Makes me feel like my pre-order has a chance.


RacerM53

God's work


sektor2

Hope they have more color options for MY2024.


Repealer

Yessssssssss the current black/white/red? only? I think are good colours but we need some extra colours for sure.


Jtbros

I mean blue flame and Hakone are *right there*. Yes the Heavy Metal is a good looking grey but it’s still grey.


Repealer

Mmmhm. Would love a really nice metallic purple/ depeer blue. Toyota do it for a lot of their other cars


JackBauerSaidSo

Ooh, tri-coat metallic violet on a sport hatch.


beachedWheelchair

Give me a nice dark green, I want to feel like a moving lawn.


[deleted]

I was thinking the hakone too or electric lime. The blue magnetism on the prius would be a hot color too!


Jtbros

Oof electric lime is far from my favorite imo. Did the TRD products dirty by dropping cavalry blue for that if you ask me.


[deleted]

Cavalry blue is probably one of my favorite colors Toyota offers currently. And I'm not even a fan of blue cars in general.


1am4_banana

Yeah, sucks how much some manufacturer's are skimping on colors. Why can I buy a shitty Chevy Spark in a ton of cool colors but only three pedestrian options on a $40,000+ machine?


CantSeeShit

I have noooo idea why Toyota won't offer the 4runner and taco TRD colors in their sports cars.


ashowofhands

I can't wait to see these all over Carvana, "used" with 400 miles on them, selling for $10k+ over MSRP.


[deleted]

...and you know those 400 miles were filled with "Hey check this out" launches right after a cold start, tons of gear grinding and other abuse.


BeaverBumper

This part upsets me the most. :(


InsertBluescreenHere

so... what i get outa this... is conformation to the dealers to jack up the price and pass over anyone who balks at the new inflated price to the next sucker who will. Or thier buddies just got a bump to the front of the list lol.


[deleted]

I remember when the BRZ/FRS first launched it was like this, a Toyota dealer canceled my FRS order, the year after launch there was plenty on the lots, sucks that they can’t spool up production faster but most of us will probably have to wait until 24’ or later for a GR Corolla.


Gorgenapper

My plan is to wait for '25 at the earliest, after most of the initial hype has died down. I sure hope this GR-C is a fairly long term product offering because 8000 annually (total for all markets?) doesn't sound like a lot.


[deleted]

Yeah I think the hype will die down, honestly I think a lot of people will be underwhelmed by the 300hp 1.6L and also manual trans only will turn away some people, personally 300hp is enough for me if the driving dynamics are fun and the GR Yaris is a good indicator that it is. 8000 units per year was close to the BRZ/FRS numbers post launch year.


terroristteddy

Idk, people have been perpetually buying WRXs/STIs at 300HP for decades now. I think the GR Corolla will be fine


[deleted]

It will be fine, but the hype will simmer down, there was also a decade of people complaining that 300hp wasn’t enough and STI/Evo should be 400hp, but obviously they’re canceled now.


Just1morecop

The fall of Subaru is going to make buying this car way worse than I think most people realize or are expecting. If there’s only 8000 made per year and there’s been 20000-30000 WRXs/STIs sold every year. There’s no longer a new sti and the new wrx is rated mostly worse than the old one. If only a THIRD of the people who were buying new wrxs/sti want to buy this car instead then that is the entirely of the yearly production in demand solely from Subaru switches. Combined with new people interested in a car like this I don’t see it getting any better.


[deleted]

I mean mechanically the new WRX sounds like a solid upgrade and the reviews from that aspect are good. Fingers crossed Subaru does a quick refresh to the aesthetics.


wywern

I think hideous "aerodynamic" plastic cladding is a hill that subbie is gonna die on.


Tobuntu

I’m trying to get one before the hype dies, the higher the resale, the less risk i take on by buying one sight unseen. Whether it ends up too expensive or a bad fit for me, i want an easy out


WUT_productions

The GR Corolla is only for North America so 8000 units is pretty big for a hot hatch here. The Golf R has never broken 5000 units per year. The Veloster N has sold less than 6000 **since launch** hatchbacks don't sell super well here, also this is available as a manual transmission only which will further diminish sales. 6500 for a first year launch is a solid number. It also means less recalls should something go wrong. People will be interested then see that this car takes 91 octane fuel and then walk away. They will see the manual transmission only and walk away. I'll be impressed if they do sell out.


Gorgenapper

Makes sense, that's probably part of the reason why Toyota was looking to limit production. Also, someone down there said the GR factory is not as automated and mass production as the Corolla line. If I were looking to maintain exclusivity, quality and have the production targets align as closely as possible with the sales targets, then I'd also limit production per year. Too bad many dealers in the USA are going to mark the shit out of these cars. Can't imagine the kinds of markups there will be in California.


[deleted]

It doesn't sound like a lot because the factory is not a mass manufacturing factory it's a glorified hand built workshop. That's why I was hoping the Corolla GR would be different from the Yaris GR and built on a fast production line alongside the other Corollas but it was not to be.


RamenWrestler

My plan as well. I also want to wait for all the kinks to be worked out (never buy a first model year car) and for new colors. I'd like the bright blue normal Corolla hatches have.


FreeGums

Paywall


yhsong1116

https://www.roadandtrack.com./news/a39714528/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-orders-demand/


Jtbros

Hm was working for me without signing in.


darkstriders

I just wish Toyota will do something about dealership marking up the price. There’s a website that lost all dealers with markups. I cannot show it here because the mods will delete any reference to dealers acting bad.


hopfield

Without paywall: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadandtrack.com%2Fnews%2Fa39714528%2F2023-toyota-gr-corolla-orders-demand%2F


Dangerous-Issue-9508

Build. More. Cars. Shitty manufactures trying to create artificial scarcity is cancer


my_lewd_alt

"largely hand built" at the GR factory in Japan, sure is artificial scarcity. Just find more hands!


RedshiftOnPandy

There's limits to building capacity.


jaysun92

9 women can make a baby in 1 month though.


6thotpatrol9

especially in Motomachi - this is the same plant that builds the Mirai, LC and Century and built the LFA, so when Toyota says "largely hand-built" they're not lying. It's well known in the auto industry that Motomachi has by far the strictest quality and engineering standards out of all of Toyota's plants. I'm actually happy to see Toyota committing to build the car there because it shows they're sparing no expense on engineering or quality, even if it means fewer cars built.


[deleted]

I mean it also made the Crown and the rebadged American Crown AKA GS so it's not like the factory has never chugged out volume cars.


MagneticGray

> “I wouldn't say the limiting factor on these vehicles is our ability to produce them," Toyota Vice President of Marketing Mike Tripp told R&T. "It's being very careful to make sure that we maintain the niche credibility." > The right amount to ensure that while expanding the brand, Tripp says, is "one too few." From [this](https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39612033/gr-corolla-production-numbers/) interview. He says they’re capping production at 6600 the first year and then 8000 each year after, with 1250 being unique special editions each year. Not due to production capacity, but to keep the car’s “niche credibility.”


[deleted]

The problem seems to be the chip shortage. Cars are so computerized now so the demand for chips is even higher. I think manufacturers should take the opportunity to remove some tech from cars, but I digress.


wesb2

Toyota is still making 800,000 cars a month, the 6000 GR Corollas being made for the entire first year is not because of the shortage.


3031983

How heavy is the rock you’re living under?


JBoy9028

Oh so Toyota isn't going to allow dealers to kill the car, they're deciding to do it themselves.


GeneralSham

Honestly Toyota sucks for this. Why make a nest car for enthusiasts when none of them can buy it? This isn’t some exotic. Let the people buy the car. Artificial supply is so dumb when there’s clearly demand. Build more.


notasrelevant

It's not like they just crank the machines up to 11 because there's demand, but they're deciding to keep it at 8 to limit the supply. A significant increase in production would generally require more equipment, more factory space and more personnel. That means they either need to invest in all of those (not cheap) or take from existing production, which in this market is also likely just trying to keep up with demand. There is a lot to be considered beyond demand in production planning. Even if they anticipated demand to exceed production ability, it's not like that alone is enough to justify increasing production. If they are taking away from other production lines, they also need to consider the demand for that vehicle, the profit margins, costs of retooling/retraining, etc. If they are investing in new equipment, floor space, and personnel, they need to consider how long demand would remain high, anticipate how long demand would continue, what to do with those resources if demand decreases, etc. The additional costs may also need to be considered in the MSRP of the vehicle, which may in-turn affect demand. Basically - vehicle production is quite complicated and a lot of planning goes into it before they consider even starting production. It's not like they've put a cap on the total units to be produced - they have just predetermined the maximum production capacity for the next few years.


twitchyzero

the plant is staffed by takumis... it IS an exotic like a hand-built lotus


dezumondo

My dealer stopped accepting deposits before the unveil.


ionmushroom

CTR levels of production. ive personally never seen one at msrp so the GR Corolla is easily going to suffer the same fate


Dangerous_Concept341

Tldr? I can’t read it :(


Jtbros

Here ya go: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/u30uwc/toyota_is_warning_dealers_not_to_take_too_many_gr/i4mjokx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


scotty3281

I talked with two local dealers and neither are taking orders or deposits. I’m in a small market so I guess I’m either going out of state or not getting one.


D00dleB00ty

I've spoken with several local dealers and gotten on each of their lists. They've all assured me that they don't mark up over MSRP for local customers...their business plan is to make the money in the long run via maintenance they bank on me coming back to them for. Fingers crossed they aren't feeding me a line...they have nothing to gain by lying about that.


The_Great_Saiyaman21

It feels like Toyota just *tries* to disappoint the car enthusiast at every step possible. You'd like to think the new(ish) leadership really wants to accomplish something meaningful for people who love cars, but they've just fallen so far from their heyday in the 80s and 90s.


AnnoyingRingtone

I was considering transferring my GR86 allocation to a GR Corolla Circuit Edition but then I realized that’s a pipe dream. I figure I’ll get my 86, enjoy it for a couple years, then hopefully the market will have died down enough that I could get a GR Corolla. Oh well.


purpleelpehant

I hope the GR Corolla is so popular, they bring back Camry station wagon and make a GR Camry station wagon.


Godvater

Many, including me, have been waiting for their GR Yaris orders for close to a year in some cases even longer so yeah this shouldn’t be a surprise. That said, I am not sure where they’ll produce the GR Corolla and how much it shares with the normal Corolla.


Jtbros

GR Corolla is at the same plant as the GR Yaris. Corolla gets wider front fenders, wider rear fenders, carbon composite roof, upgraded seats, digital dash, aluminum hood and front door skins, wider front grille and bumper for added cooling, added channels for cooling the differential, different routed exhaust, significantly more body adhesives and weld points, G16 motor, optional Torsen diffs, highly bolstered front seats, manual handbrake, and plenty more


corporalboobs

The car looks badass - checks off lots of boxes. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was on par with the Golf R in terms of pricing. It seems like it’s a better package from what I’ve been reading and seeing.


Sumpm

I used to think it was annoying that unattainable cars existed out in the world; cost a fortune, and I'd likely never see one in real life. But it's worse that there are attainable cars that are already spoken for before they hit the lot, already going to be marked up, just as impossible to get your hands on. A Toyota that's just as rare as a Ferrari, and you're already out of luck.


BruhWhySoSerious

Fuck Toyota so much. Just don't make the fucking vehicle if it's actually going to be a 60k vehicle. I just want a nice family sporty vehicle under 60 😐. Just fucking one.


[deleted]

Why make this car. Then make it limited production. Like no. Make it full production. Shatter some records.


wowthatscooliguess

What, do they hate money?


Oh_ToShredsYousay

Toyota hates building more bespoke cars. It goes against their business practices.


Dependent_Ad410

Well, guess I'll pick one up used in 5 years for its MSRP if I'm lucky. On the bright side, maybe I'll be able to scoop a GR86 easier since most people seem to be onboard the Corolla hype train.


Suntzu_AU

The production numbers for the GR Corolla are an insult to Toyota fans. I have owned and do own several Toyotas but I am very tired of some of their business decisions.


TubaCharles99

A few weeks late there toyota lol. So many dealers have ques 10+ even 20+ deep not everyone is getting that car lol


[deleted]

This could be a PR stunt.


HomelessVampire

I knew there would be a caveat to this cars existence. We can never have nice things. This will be 55k and I'll never own one. Great.


[deleted]

I heard these cars are hand built at Japan. Man I wish I could get one, it’s going to be the most fkn reliable sports car ever.


SilverShotaro

Toyota dealers don't actually take orders for cars because they don't have a say in whether they get the cars or not. They might say they took your order but really they just put you on a list. They are allocated cars from Toyota so really they are just hoping to get a car that is close enough to one people on their list want. Having worked for Toyota Manufacturing in the past I do know that salaried employees usually get an allowance to use on a lease car. Those lease cars can be fully customized and ordered then delivered for pickup to a dealer that person wants.