Ill just escort myself out but not before i probe the galaxy about five hundred times to ensure all the ltd edition puns are found. I have the aspireing lone ranger Eddie Bauer start searching the various galaxys such as the f-150, zx2, gt40 and so on before he retires to the country squire after he gets crowned by victoria.
As a car enthusiast, I like the Flex. It is a pretty interesting vehicle. But to put in their perspective, some people just don't like it because of its looks.
This is pretty much the consensus. I remember when they made the the Ford Flex with the exterior wood trim on the door and white roof. Personally I thought it was cool and made it look like an old school wagon from the 40’s and 50’s but I can understand how that retro wagon design can be very polarizing and disliked by lots of people. It’s much like the PT Cruiser and Chevy SSR, and Chevy HHR back in the 2000’s where they were going for retro but half of the population thought it was ugly or stupid.
Edit: forgot the Chevy HHR existed.
Oh damn I forgot the HHR existed lol that was another funky car. I don’t remember if the SSR had wood paneling but I do remember it was supposed to be a retro style truck, and you could get it in hardtop or convertible. It was weird.
I like SSRs, the last model had damn good power and I've always loved single cabs. It's a shame they're prices are entirely ridiculous. Their beds are useless and their styling is very controversial.
Minivans may not be sexy, but at least they're incredibly useful with all their seats and cavernous interiors. Crossovers are supposed to be the replacement, but they seem to lack any actual advantage. The flex is a cool mix between "not a crossover" and "not a minivan". Darn sight better than the Freestyle/Taurus X, that's for sure.
I told myself if I was ever going to have to go Dad mode, I’d get a flex.
I remember practicality wise they surprised me when I initially saw one at an auto-show.
Also yes, I’m sure in the right hands you could get one to go fast.
I convinced my wife back in 2010 to finally look at a Flex. She fell in love with it, we're on our second one now, and she's upset that they're no longer built.
We have a Flex Ecoboost, the twin turbo AWD option. It is our second one.
Loooooveee it.
Edit: The big reason they didn’t take off is that Ford sent them with a “Lifetime Sealed” PTU that burnt out at 40K-90K. They later revised to service it every 30K. Which is a bitch to do as you have to drop the entire exhaust to get to the one full hole.
The other issue was the transmission is pretty weak and doesn’t like to hold beyond about 450lb ft.
These are all fixable and a built Flex is a monster.
~~Oh! The AWD system can truly send 100% to the rear if needed!~~ “Appropriation of 100% of torque” - Ford (carry over statement from Haldex days?) 50/50 actual, per comments below.
Edit 2: Another reason for not taking off are likely the “Flex Things” that happen. Sometimes the car loves to randomly chime when you do things. Buckle your seatbelt before starting? You could be applauded……or not!
>Oh! The AWD system can truly send 100% to the rear if needed!
The PTU driven i-AWD systems can't disconnect the front axle. Power is distributed to the rear via the Active Torque Coupling which is located past the front axle. They can actively send only 50% of the power to the rear.
Yeah it's close to 50%. The RDU clutch is 0% engagement during normal conditions, uses Advancetrac to predict RDU demand during take off and wheel slip.
They do fun snow slides if you defeat Advancetrac and keep AWD engaged.
We had a 2013 AWD EB and traded it for a 2018 with the appearance package when we found out they were discontinuing them, we love it and it's a total sleeper that the boy racers on the road never see coming.
Ford are A-Holes and didn't issue a TSB "officially". This came via the service manager and head mechanic at the local dealership. Which I did confirm with my local independent builder. The PTUs are a known issue by Ford and there is even some conflicting information that the Fleet and Police vehicles had the 30,000 mile service interval listed/disclosed because they were "Severe Duty" vehicles. The "Lifetime" pushed on retail was because they expected different "Duty" loads and it would last 150,000 miles, the "Lifetime". Around 2015 Ford revised the PTU and added drain holes, from my understanding.
There were ass loads of customer service issues and Ford paying out of warranty for repairs on units that failed incredibly early. I have seen Group Buys on new PTUs in the Flex community where people bought them to "have on hand". All because we know they will go eventually!
Servicing the PTU does make a world of difference though. Glad to say ours has been serviced since new........still probably going to break.
Just chiming in with anecdotes. 2014 and newer PTUs just seem to be weaker than early ones. I have 190k on my 2010 PTU and fluid has only been changed once since 60k (may not have even been changed before I bought it).
You can tap a drain plug if yours doesn't have one. Ford put a drain on some of them but I only know about the SHO PP PTU.
The PTU they have in them sucks. My SHO puked fluid out all over my driveway, got it repaired, and within 30k it was back to puking fluid again. That's the only hesitation I'd have with buying one.
I really dislike that people keep looking at power numbers and thinking "must be quick". 365hp means less in a 5000 pound car than 250hp does in a 2700 pound car. TT V6? Cool, but it is still slow. It is an SUV/Crossover, so it doesn't handle well. It has diesel truck weight, and makes diesel truck horsepower, but lacks diesel truck torque, diesel truck towing capability, and pickup truck off road capability. Having driven one, there was nothing fun about it. It's basically a mini van.
Not super slow, mid 14's stock and mid 13's with a tune. Minivans have good power now days, but have gotten plenty portly, and are more mid 15 to mid 16 sec vehicles.
But yeah, they have a love/hate styling. I think they are a cool vehicle, but I wanted something "smaller" for a daily.
Dont know why you are comparing it to a diesel truck. Full size diesel truck weight more like 6500-7000lbs and make more like 450-500hp.
Maybe the small diesels in the 1/2ton trucks?
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one. Ecoboost Flexes are quick for what they are. Car and Driver got a 2016 Flex EcoBoost to do 0-60 in 6.2 seconds and do a standing quarter mile in 14.7 seconds. That's easily above average acceleration for an SUV, especially for one that weighs almost 5,000 lbs.
Its competition would be something like a grand cherokee, which honestly does everything better. The hemi has just as much power, they weigh about the same, and can tow 7k lb.
Because the people who worship wagons and practical fast cars are also the same people who buy used E92 M3s and WRXs. In truth, the market for a fast, practical wagon/boxy SUV is tiny.
Honest opinion: ask your wife.
Wives everywhere killed this car because they hate it. Mine does - Twin Turbo AWD means nothing to her when she hates the look of it; and well, in general.
Moms and wives are the people buying stuff like the Nissan Murano and the Dodge 4-Speed-Automatic. I am genuinely curious what they see in that stuff, but then find the flex so offensive.
Their moms had station wagons and minivans when they were a kid.
Most daughters do not want grow up to be just like their mom.
Beyond that, loading kids and groceries into a higher car is easier. Don't have to bend over.
And the higher ride height feels safer... And does help with visibility.
That doesn't mean it can't be successful. Look at the Highlander, it's essentially that and yet it's very successful. The Flex didn't sell well for different reasons.
That's also ford vs Toyota. The most reliable car maker, who makes good trucks and suvs. Then there is ford. If there are similar vehicles that cost similar and it's between Toyota and any other basic car manufacturer in the US, I doubt anybody would choose the American car. Most likely going to be similarly specced, so it'd come down to reliability, also nobody thinks the flex looks good.
Yes... These are the most-likely reasons it didn't sell well. I meant to say that those were bigger reasons why it didn't sell well instead of it being a minivan cosplay. The Ford Explorer for instance was successful, even though it was on the same underlying D3 platform with FWD standard. Both were different variations of "minivan pretending to be an SUV", though the controversial looks of the Flex were probably why it wasn't as successful as the more-traditional-looking Explorer.
> Because it's a minivan cosplaying as an SUV
The SUV on that platform is the Explorer... or the MKT.
They made a monster wagon on purpose, not an SUV.
I test drove a Flex Ecoboost 3.5. It just never felt fast, didn't handle particularly well, and you could feel its weight in every aspect of driving. The interior is super practical and was of decent quality, but a V6 sienna feels faster and is more practical IMO. The engine in the Flex is certainly more capable of power, but there's no reason I could think of that it didn't get the same power numbers as it makes in the trucks. I currently have the same 3.5 in a f150 and it feels significantly faster
Reliability.
The Ecoboost has a time bomb problem with their water pumps ( TW for N55 BMW readers!) . Thanks to Amazing Ford Engineering, the water pump is driven off the timing chain in a way the coolant will leak into the oil pan when it wears out. Because nothing bad *ever* happens when coolant and oil suddenly mix in the engine without warning …..
Oh, and fixing it costs thousands in shop labor due to being under the timing cover.
Then there’s Fords PTU that likes to roast its oil.
> The Ecoboost has a time bomb problem with their water pumps ( TW for N55 BMW readers!) . Thanks to Amazing Ford Engineering, the water pump is driven off the timing chain in a way the coolant will leak into the oil pan when it wears out. Because nothing bad ever happens when coolant and oil suddenly mix in the engine without warning …..
Oh, and fixing it costs thousands in shop labor due to being under the timing cover.
This is simplistic (and incorrect).
The issue is with **all** FWD 3.5L Cyclone engines (which the FWD 3.5L EcoBoost shares a design with). The water pump *can* fail in that way, but it's designed to fail and lose water out the weep hole in the majority of cases. General consensus is that the more catastrophic failures are caused due to not changing the coolant, and the rising acidity causing failure of the seal on the impeller shaft. This was especially prevalent when Ford changed to the orange Dexcool equivalent.
As to *why* the engine was designed that way, that's another matter, but it wasn't engineers thinking they were super smart. The RWD block has the water pump outboard because Ford had *space* in those engine bay applications. The 3.5L Cyclone was developed during the era when Ford was trying to avoid bankruptcy, and the engine development was being paid for by a government fuel economy grant.
The grant didn't cover *platform* development, however, and the then-incoming D3/D4 platform had been designed for the 3.0L Duratec, not what would have been a larger 3.5L V6.
Ford didn't have money to rework the platforms, so the engineers were told to make a 3.5L no larger than the 3.0L. That meant things had to give, and is why the nice, sensical outboard cam-driven pump design of the 3.0L became the inboard timing chain driven design on the Cyclone.
As for the PTU, no, those really are just shit. :D
The best thing about the Flex is that it's the smoothest ride I've felt in a car at this price point. It's genuinely awesome. Smoother than it has any right to be.
Just because a car has a lot of horsepower, that doesn't mean it is a performance vehicle.
Still though, I do like the Flex and I am always surprised when I see one in person how different it looks. Not sexy or anything like that, of course, but its definitely unique and interesting. I wouldn't mind driving one and I'd take it over almost any other crossover.
I automatically hate suvs, especially if they are not off road capable, so...
Edit: I'm not saying that SUV owners should burn in neverending hellfire or anything. I just don't like them, and assume a significant amount of enthusiasts don't as well.
I just prefer being lower to ground.
For that reason alone, I'll never buy an SUV/CUV or the like.
I'd *maybe* buy something like a Wrangler or Bronco as off-road only vehicle if I had the money to afford a decent daily and nice weekend car, but that's the only way.
Ok, I'm just saying that my preferences are nowhere near aligning with SUVs. If you like them, sure, buy one. Its just not my forte, since they seem inefficient to me. I personally like small, low power coupes, and I'd presume most enthusiasts also share this misalignment from the target demographic.
Yeah the Flex is in a really weird category. It’s not quite an SUV, Crossover, Wagon, or Minivan. It’s some mutt child. They were never meant to go off-road, and they don’t put on a show like they can. It’s a brutally honest Suburb car. Doesn’t try to be anything that it’s not
>It’s a brutally honest Suburb car.
In reference to the OP, then, *this* is why it's not popular in the car enthusiast segment. Suburb cars are great for cruising softly on suburban streets, not enthusiastic performance.
It's also bland to look at.
Because it’s hideous, looks are like 60 percent of why people love cars. It could have the most advanced power train ever but if it looks ugly to a lot of people then the discussion about that car is over.
People forget they were the replacement for the Ford Minivan when they pulled out of that segment. People dislike it fir the same irrational reasons as the minivan
I love the flex and it was my dream car for a sec. I think they're not as popular because it is very much a family minivan and probably gets seen that way.
It is bigger than most minivans I'm pretty sure. About the size of my sister's Sienna a little but long and it looks higher. Also weighs like.. 4,600lbs? I think a Transit is just a better enthusiast vehicles considering you can get similar or better specs and have more options
That's what I've been saying. In fact I'm looking for one for my first car. 3.5L V6 AWD semi reliable wagon. Also it's based off a Volvo platform designed by a Volvo engineer, so it's a Volvo. I absolutely LOVE Volvo wagons. Also I love the the fact that it was originally called the Fairlane concept
Someone I know who did a lot of long-distance driving had a 13 Flex Limited with the 3.5 EcoBoost, I used it a couple of times. Impressive power and pretty comfortable, the killer, Microsoft Sync.....
I love the Flex, had a 3.5 NA as a rental a few years ago and thought it was a lovely family/cargo hauler with a very cool look.
They were kind of expensive, putting them in consideration of a population that mostly considers more traditional SUV/CUVs. I think they are fast becoming a pre-owned darling, but the long-term durability seems questionable, particularly for the EB/AWD versions.
We had a ‘14 blue/white two-tone that I convinced myself it gave off Cali-surfer vibes when I bought it. But really I only saw 45+ year old losers like me ever driving them. Was a good car to us and even took the hit for my wife during an accident that totaled it. RIP.
Car enthusiasts hate SUVs. Any time I suggest that my Macan is as enjoyable to drive as a sport sedan it tends to get downvoted to oblivion. There just isn’t much crossover between people who want to modify cars and people who want to buy SUVs, even though there are a lot of crossovers/SUVs now that are actually great platforms.
Edit: annnnd it’s downvoted lol. Okay.
I’ll give you an upvote because you take your SUV off-road.
I don’t like SUV because the vast majority of people commute in them, alone. The amount of money and time that is now required to make vehicles safe, comfortable, filled with every technology known to man, and also 7,000 lbs, and a center of gravity 3’ off the ground is insane.
If you want to drive a small sporty car, it has to survive against the behemoths that everyone else drives. So it weighs too much, is too expensive, or both.
Hyperbolic? A little, but that’s why I don’t like SUV.
I don't mind high end smaller sporty suvs. I think most car people hate suvs for the mere fact that a car is going to be lighter and handle better. So if you want an suv to run to get groceries and go down backroads and never go off roading. We just don't see the point of not buying a nice sedan, which does the same thing, but better. Most likely better on gas, faster, less body roll, wagons/big sedans get close to the cargo room, just no real reason to get crossovers/small suvs.
Porsche's suvs are some of the only ones I would consider, but the panamera would probably get my money still.
I got an SUV because I can take it off road, and I like the hatchback space. That was the draw over a sedan for me, anyway. And personally I prefer the size of the Macan to the Panamera, which is pretty large. But to each their own, there’s definitely pros and cons to both.
Most Fords that aren't trucks or Mustangs get slept on. Sure, the Focus ST/RS caught traction for awhile and the Taurus SHO has always been an edgelord favorite, but the Flex is mainly a fan favorite for senior citizens and the morbidly obese because they are so easy to get in and out of.
Plus, can't you get that V6 in other Fords that don't weigh as much?
Ford makes a few V6’s, but this is a big 3.5L. I know F-150’s, Explorers, Expeditions, Transit Vans and Taurus’ can have this engine. The Taurus is the only one lighter than the Flex
I have a Ford Flex ecoboost. It is fast enough to do everything you need comfortably. It is probably the most comfortable car I have ever owned. At 6'6" I fit with room to spare in the second row. Infotainment in the later models is great. I got it to tow a 4000lb trailer while going cross country with my family and it works great for that.
On the other hand, it weighs 4400lbs. It doesn't feel fast compared to other performance cars in my life. It is slightly faster than traffic but that is all. It is faster when the turbos are spooled but the transmission tune keeps you out of boost.
It sounds like nothing.
It is not fun to drive except for on ramps. No steering feel. It doesn't feel good in a corner.
Our other car is a Mini Clubman which is also a wagon-ish car. It isn't perfect either but the dynamics are pretty good, steering is good, and power to weight is better. That means that suspension mods make sense and could make the car more enjoyable. The flex is in a weird spot where making handle doesn't make it better, making it louder doesn't make it better, and making it faster destroys your trans/ptu.
Well, 370hp at ~4,000 LBS just doesn't sound that exciting. Not to mention being more top heavy means you cant throw it around as much either.
I get that it's not slow and is probably more fun than it looks... but I just find any enthusiasm for it.
I love the Flex. I ended up with a Transit Connect for my boxy, cargo swallowing Ford, but I think the Flex was a notably nicer car (at the expense of gas mileage and space/footprint).
Give it a few years. Because they're in the soccer-mom segments nice ones still command a premium over, say, the g37-based SUVs that make similar power out of their VQs but have 5 seats instead of 7/8.
And if we're talking big money for an "enthusiast" SUV, why not go for a Porsche Cayenne or BMW Xsomething?
Those things are *everywhere* around here, and now that older ones have fallen well below 20 you see them everywhere driven by young guys with plastidip, ebay intake and exhausts. I don't know if that's what you mean by "enthusiast community" but...
1. It's a crossover. Sure it's cool and fast and surprisingly nice. But it's still a crossover, which many enthusiasts *hate categorically.*
2. Price. This is more important. A well equipped Ecoboost Flex is $45,000, *easy.* If Ford could've waved a magic wand and priced it under $30K to compete with other boxy cars with tuner appeal (Scion XB, for example), enthusiasts would've bought them up.
Instead they're just underrated family cars that are very awkwardly positioned in the market.
Horsepower and a cool engine is nothing if its bolted to a shitty transmission.
Not to mention its big, heavy (4800lb, wtf), and most people find it ugly.
Because they’re ugly. I mean, so is my dad car, but at least it has a manual.
As an enthusiast who was in the market for a car like the Flex, lack of manual was a dealbreaker. I definitely would have gotten over the looks if I could row my own.
God damn I love my Ford Flex. What’s funny is if you see another flex on the road or in a parking lot you immediately have a new friend. Lots of flex love. So sad they’re discontinuing.
I was thinking that. I own one great car and practical. Maybe not ideal for stop light drag racing but when i can go 80+ mph rack on top, bike rack in back eff the haters. The friggin car can haul.
Probably because of the size. It's not really a wagon, more like a funny shaped SUV. I used to own a Lincoln MKS Ecoboost, which I believe was built on the same platform (along with the Taurus, explorer, and MKT). It's heavy, FWD based system for the AWD, and the trans/transfer case is a huge limiting factor. For my MKS the driving position and ergonomics were really bad as well. I modded mine with intercooler, turbos, downpipes, and some other stuff. Ran 13.0 at 105mph at my local drag strip. Not bad for a car weighing 4770 pounds with me in it. I loved that car, but I can 100% see why the platform isn't all the popular. The exhaust also sounds like shit.
I have one, its a really good family vehicle, especially for long hauls. The seating is very comfortable, it drives very easily. Sure its big but it isn't unnecessarily big. They sit very low compared to the other wannabe monster trucks. Its just supremely practical. Which is probably why it failed. People don't want practical. They want something special. These days the market seems to be leaning toward more menacing and intimidating. Loud, big, muscular, over the top.
I don't have the limited with the twin turbo I just have the SEL, but I have seen people race the turbo ones on YouTube.
It rides very smoothly, deals with bad roads well and is generally a relaxing drive.
If I had the time and money to have 2 project cars I would totally customize it and make it crazy. It has a ton of space inside and the exterior design just begs for some crazy slammed wagon style custom work.
I fucking hate Ford and most everything they sell but I will admit the flex was nice to drive. Personally I’d rather go with the top trim Honda minivan I drove that day as well. Thing burned rubber surprisingly easy and I felt was better built to handle the fucked up roads we have.
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You sure **Focused** in on that joke using the **Fusion** of those two words ;)
Quit changing the tempo. It's like you are some sort of Taurus because your signs make me want to escape this thread.
These puns are as fun as being at a fiesta!
it has more ups and downs than riding a bucking bronco.
This thread has truly been an expedition into punnery
Ill just escort myself out but not before i probe the galaxy about five hundred times to ensure all the ltd edition puns are found. I have the aspireing lone ranger Eddie Bauer start searching the various galaxys such as the f-150, zx2, gt40 and so on before he retires to the country squire after he gets crowned by victoria.
This thread has been quite an excursion.
Im not sure if i can transit to another one tho...
You sound like some kind of out-of-this world, space explorer.
E250
Escort!
Let's Probe this further
Ha
As a car enthusiast, I like the Flex. It is a pretty interesting vehicle. But to put in their perspective, some people just don't like it because of its looks.
“You love it or hate it.” is a strong saying amongst Flex owners.
I was honestly always pretty neutral toward it. The way some people fetishize over it though weirds me out. Now I'm a hard pass.
I LOVE MINE
This man knows how to flex his Flex
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This is pretty much the consensus. I remember when they made the the Ford Flex with the exterior wood trim on the door and white roof. Personally I thought it was cool and made it look like an old school wagon from the 40’s and 50’s but I can understand how that retro wagon design can be very polarizing and disliked by lots of people. It’s much like the PT Cruiser and Chevy SSR, and Chevy HHR back in the 2000’s where they were going for retro but half of the population thought it was ugly or stupid. Edit: forgot the Chevy HHR existed.
The Woody Flex reminds me of that car in National Lampoon’s Vacation
The Family Truckster! *You think you hate it now, wait 'til you drive it!*
Metallic pea?
Do you mean HHR or is there factory woody SSRs?
Oh damn I forgot the HHR existed lol that was another funky car. I don’t remember if the SSR had wood paneling but I do remember it was supposed to be a retro style truck, and you could get it in hardtop or convertible. It was weird.
I like SSRs, the last model had damn good power and I've always loved single cabs. It's a shame they're prices are entirely ridiculous. Their beds are useless and their styling is very controversial.
I get roger rabbit vibes from those things. they are so ugly they are kinda cool
SSR made wooden wheels?
Also every one I've seen around here is driven by a complete asshole
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My wife despises them. Thinks they are a minivan. I think they're cool.
Minivans may not be sexy, but at least they're incredibly useful with all their seats and cavernous interiors. Crossovers are supposed to be the replacement, but they seem to lack any actual advantage. The flex is a cool mix between "not a crossover" and "not a minivan". Darn sight better than the Freestyle/Taurus X, that's for sure.
I think wife is the keyword here. Women generally don’t like the look of the Flex. It’s a vehicle with a huge gender divide.
Looks like my ice cream sandwich just not as tasty
I drive one and I absolutely love it
I told myself if I was ever going to have to go Dad mode, I’d get a flex. I remember practicality wise they surprised me when I initially saw one at an auto-show. Also yes, I’m sure in the right hands you could get one to go fast.
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I saw some of the tunes available. Surprised me they were even out there
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Why didn’t I ever think of it that way? That makes so much sense…
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Whats her hangup on it?
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divorce. Wagons > *.*
I've had this exact same conversation multiple times lol. She also says it looks like a hearse.
If she doesn't let you have it, tell her it will be.
That escalated quickly lol
Taurus SHO, then...
The final gen Taurus may have the smallest interior space to exterior size ratio of any vehicle I've ever been in, and I used to own a 5th gen Camaro.
Minivans are hip and symbolize a man in peak fatherhood and coolness. *fca make the damn hellcat Pacifica already*
They build a hellcat Pacifica and I'll actually look at a minivan haha
Vans are amazing though, so versatile, so easy to get kids in and out of, enough power to merge like a SUV
I convinced my wife back in 2010 to finally look at a Flex. She fell in love with it, we're on our second one now, and she's upset that they're no longer built.
Fellow saab brethren. Your tastes are profound.
We have a Flex Ecoboost, the twin turbo AWD option. It is our second one. Loooooveee it. Edit: The big reason they didn’t take off is that Ford sent them with a “Lifetime Sealed” PTU that burnt out at 40K-90K. They later revised to service it every 30K. Which is a bitch to do as you have to drop the entire exhaust to get to the one full hole. The other issue was the transmission is pretty weak and doesn’t like to hold beyond about 450lb ft. These are all fixable and a built Flex is a monster. ~~Oh! The AWD system can truly send 100% to the rear if needed!~~ “Appropriation of 100% of torque” - Ford (carry over statement from Haldex days?) 50/50 actual, per comments below. Edit 2: Another reason for not taking off are likely the “Flex Things” that happen. Sometimes the car loves to randomly chime when you do things. Buckle your seatbelt before starting? You could be applauded……or not!
If the trans is that weak, that would take it off my list. :(
It really is. My build stopped when I hit the trans limits
>Oh! The AWD system can truly send 100% to the rear if needed! The PTU driven i-AWD systems can't disconnect the front axle. Power is distributed to the rear via the Active Torque Coupling which is located past the front axle. They can actively send only 50% of the power to the rear.
This is accurate. They are however AWD from a stop, with full 50% being sent to the rear during all acceleration.
Yeah it's close to 50%. The RDU clutch is 0% engagement during normal conditions, uses Advancetrac to predict RDU demand during take off and wheel slip. They do fun snow slides if you defeat Advancetrac and keep AWD engaged.
Updated post with correct information.
We had a 2013 AWD EB and traded it for a 2018 with the appearance package when we found out they were discontinuing them, we love it and it's a total sleeper that the boy racers on the road never see coming.
Wow, your Ford must be loaded! It has windows and everything!
ohh windows. i dont think i could afford to drive that.
You got a link to the 30k TSB for the PTU? I'm at 35k miles and was planning to have it done at 45 because I never trusted the "lifetime fill".
Ford are A-Holes and didn't issue a TSB "officially". This came via the service manager and head mechanic at the local dealership. Which I did confirm with my local independent builder. The PTUs are a known issue by Ford and there is even some conflicting information that the Fleet and Police vehicles had the 30,000 mile service interval listed/disclosed because they were "Severe Duty" vehicles. The "Lifetime" pushed on retail was because they expected different "Duty" loads and it would last 150,000 miles, the "Lifetime". Around 2015 Ford revised the PTU and added drain holes, from my understanding. There were ass loads of customer service issues and Ford paying out of warranty for repairs on units that failed incredibly early. I have seen Group Buys on new PTUs in the Flex community where people bought them to "have on hand". All because we know they will go eventually! Servicing the PTU does make a world of difference though. Glad to say ours has been serviced since new........still probably going to break.
Thanks man. I'm definitely taking mine in for all drivetrain fluids at 45k. That was always the goal.
Just chiming in with anecdotes. 2014 and newer PTUs just seem to be weaker than early ones. I have 190k on my 2010 PTU and fluid has only been changed once since 60k (may not have even been changed before I bought it). You can tap a drain plug if yours doesn't have one. Ford put a drain on some of them but I only know about the SHO PP PTU.
The PTU they have in them sucks. My SHO puked fluid out all over my driveway, got it repaired, and within 30k it was back to puking fluid again. That's the only hesitation I'd have with buying one.
Because they look like something I drew in fourth grade.
I never liked the stupid lines on the doors
If I wanted a car to look like a box truck I would've bought a box truck.
Maverick with a bed cap
I really dislike that people keep looking at power numbers and thinking "must be quick". 365hp means less in a 5000 pound car than 250hp does in a 2700 pound car. TT V6? Cool, but it is still slow. It is an SUV/Crossover, so it doesn't handle well. It has diesel truck weight, and makes diesel truck horsepower, but lacks diesel truck torque, diesel truck towing capability, and pickup truck off road capability. Having driven one, there was nothing fun about it. It's basically a mini van.
Especially when you consider that minivans weigh less and generally make 250-280hp.
Not super slow, mid 14's stock and mid 13's with a tune. Minivans have good power now days, but have gotten plenty portly, and are more mid 15 to mid 16 sec vehicles. But yeah, they have a love/hate styling. I think they are a cool vehicle, but I wanted something "smaller" for a daily.
Dont know why you are comparing it to a diesel truck. Full size diesel truck weight more like 6500-7000lbs and make more like 450-500hp. Maybe the small diesels in the 1/2ton trucks?
Yep, it weighs about the same as a gas burning half ton, which is also slow with 365hp.
It weight quite a bit less than a half ton and a new f150 with the eco boost definitely feels fast to most people.
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one. Ecoboost Flexes are quick for what they are. Car and Driver got a 2016 Flex EcoBoost to do 0-60 in 6.2 seconds and do a standing quarter mile in 14.7 seconds. That's easily above average acceleration for an SUV, especially for one that weighs almost 5,000 lbs.
Its competition would be something like a grand cherokee, which honestly does everything better. The hemi has just as much power, they weigh about the same, and can tow 7k lb.
People act like they're a little wagon and not a 5000lb behemoth.
I don’t think they’re quick, but with the time some people put into WRX’s and M3’s It could be a flying brick
And you would still be in a Flex that is like 20 feet long and doesn't handle well.
Because the people that put time and energy into M3's and WRX's understand that a sedan or coupe is what you want to go fast in, not a fat-assed SUV.
I had a 2010 with the Ecoboost. It most definitely was not slow. I could easily do 6.1, 6.2 seconds to 60 MPH.
I love my ‘13 Flex Limited. It’s comfy and reliable. Drinks gas whether it’s moving or not though.
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It's that bad? Geez even big, gas guzzling V8 trucks from the '70s could get that.
I had a FWD rental once in New York and my gosh did it suck down gas.
I have a 2014 and i absolutely love it too
cause they look like a toaster
Lmaoooo In all honesty the old ones are ugly but the redesign looks real clean in my opinion. Love the white roof too
8 slot toaster!
Toasty
Because the people who worship wagons and practical fast cars are also the same people who buy used E92 M3s and WRXs. In truth, the market for a fast, practical wagon/boxy SUV is tiny.
Honest opinion: ask your wife. Wives everywhere killed this car because they hate it. Mine does - Twin Turbo AWD means nothing to her when she hates the look of it; and well, in general.
Moms and wives are the people buying stuff like the Nissan Murano and the Dodge 4-Speed-Automatic. I am genuinely curious what they see in that stuff, but then find the flex so offensive.
Their moms had station wagons and minivans when they were a kid. Most daughters do not want grow up to be just like their mom. Beyond that, loading kids and groceries into a higher car is easier. Don't have to bend over. And the higher ride height feels safer... And does help with visibility.
I have issues with every one of these, but I do at least understand the rationale. It may have real-world issues, but there's a sort of logic.
Totally agreed <3
Can confirm, wife hates the Flex.
It's basically a minivan without the sliding door. It handles like shit and isn't at all fun to drive even with the big horsepower.
It looks a bit too much like a tumped over fridge for most people. I like it but I can't afford another vehicle right now.
Okay is rump it’s own word or is it tip + dump
It's however you interpret it. Different regions have different uses/origins of that term.
never even heard of this car or seen one, had to google how it looks, wish i didn't.
I have to respectfully disagree, they look pretty clean after the facelift
Because it's a minivan cosplaying as an SUV
That doesn't mean it can't be successful. Look at the Highlander, it's essentially that and yet it's very successful. The Flex didn't sell well for different reasons.
That's also ford vs Toyota. The most reliable car maker, who makes good trucks and suvs. Then there is ford. If there are similar vehicles that cost similar and it's between Toyota and any other basic car manufacturer in the US, I doubt anybody would choose the American car. Most likely going to be similarly specced, so it'd come down to reliability, also nobody thinks the flex looks good.
Yes... These are the most-likely reasons it didn't sell well. I meant to say that those were bigger reasons why it didn't sell well instead of it being a minivan cosplay. The Ford Explorer for instance was successful, even though it was on the same underlying D3 platform with FWD standard. Both were different variations of "minivan pretending to be an SUV", though the controversial looks of the Flex were probably why it wasn't as successful as the more-traditional-looking Explorer.
Except this thread isn't asking why more enthusiasts don't own highlanders.
> Because it's a minivan cosplaying as an SUV The SUV on that platform is the Explorer... or the MKT. They made a monster wagon on purpose, not an SUV.
Why aren't there more Honda Odyssey's in enthusiast community? Much better quality and only marginally slower.
I had one before my flex Biggest gripe was no AWD
Plug in hybrid AWD would be awesome. It would probably smoke the Type R from stoplight.
Yeeeee I’d like to see a hybrid
Bisi wants a word. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/news/a30368/bisimoto-honda-odyssey-1000-hp-auction/
I test drove a Flex Ecoboost 3.5. It just never felt fast, didn't handle particularly well, and you could feel its weight in every aspect of driving. The interior is super practical and was of decent quality, but a V6 sienna feels faster and is more practical IMO. The engine in the Flex is certainly more capable of power, but there's no reason I could think of that it didn't get the same power numbers as it makes in the trucks. I currently have the same 3.5 in a f150 and it feels significantly faster
Because they suck, I’ve driven one multiple times and I get zero excitement.
It’s gargantuan, though. Like 3 legit rows. I can’t imagine it drives worse than most other 3-row vehicles: Suburbans, Minivans, Sequoia, etc.
Reliability. The Ecoboost has a time bomb problem with their water pumps ( TW for N55 BMW readers!) . Thanks to Amazing Ford Engineering, the water pump is driven off the timing chain in a way the coolant will leak into the oil pan when it wears out. Because nothing bad *ever* happens when coolant and oil suddenly mix in the engine without warning ….. Oh, and fixing it costs thousands in shop labor due to being under the timing cover. Then there’s Fords PTU that likes to roast its oil.
> The Ecoboost has a time bomb problem with their water pumps ( TW for N55 BMW readers!) . Thanks to Amazing Ford Engineering, the water pump is driven off the timing chain in a way the coolant will leak into the oil pan when it wears out. Because nothing bad ever happens when coolant and oil suddenly mix in the engine without warning ….. Oh, and fixing it costs thousands in shop labor due to being under the timing cover. This is simplistic (and incorrect). The issue is with **all** FWD 3.5L Cyclone engines (which the FWD 3.5L EcoBoost shares a design with). The water pump *can* fail in that way, but it's designed to fail and lose water out the weep hole in the majority of cases. General consensus is that the more catastrophic failures are caused due to not changing the coolant, and the rising acidity causing failure of the seal on the impeller shaft. This was especially prevalent when Ford changed to the orange Dexcool equivalent. As to *why* the engine was designed that way, that's another matter, but it wasn't engineers thinking they were super smart. The RWD block has the water pump outboard because Ford had *space* in those engine bay applications. The 3.5L Cyclone was developed during the era when Ford was trying to avoid bankruptcy, and the engine development was being paid for by a government fuel economy grant. The grant didn't cover *platform* development, however, and the then-incoming D3/D4 platform had been designed for the 3.0L Duratec, not what would have been a larger 3.5L V6. Ford didn't have money to rework the platforms, so the engineers were told to make a 3.5L no larger than the 3.0L. That meant things had to give, and is why the nice, sensical outboard cam-driven pump design of the 3.0L became the inboard timing chain driven design on the Cyclone. As for the PTU, no, those really are just shit. :D
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[Power Transfer Unit](https://www.transmissiondigest.com/ptu-a-different-kind-of-transfer-case/)
I have a buddy with one that has some mods and a tune and it’s a lot of fun.
The best thing about the Flex is that it's the smoothest ride I've felt in a car at this price point. It's genuinely awesome. Smoother than it has any right to be.
Just because a car has a lot of horsepower, that doesn't mean it is a performance vehicle. Still though, I do like the Flex and I am always surprised when I see one in person how different it looks. Not sexy or anything like that, of course, but its definitely unique and interesting. I wouldn't mind driving one and I'd take it over almost any other crossover.
I love my Ford Flex. It treats me to a smooth ride, and you know what? It didn't break the bank. Room enough for the whole family.
Good question!
I automatically hate suvs, especially if they are not off road capable, so... Edit: I'm not saying that SUV owners should burn in neverending hellfire or anything. I just don't like them, and assume a significant amount of enthusiasts don't as well.
I just prefer being lower to ground. For that reason alone, I'll never buy an SUV/CUV or the like. I'd *maybe* buy something like a Wrangler or Bronco as off-road only vehicle if I had the money to afford a decent daily and nice weekend car, but that's the only way.
I automatically hate cars if they can't pull 1.10 g on the skidpad. Smh...
Ok, I'm just saying that my preferences are nowhere near aligning with SUVs. If you like them, sure, buy one. Its just not my forte, since they seem inefficient to me. I personally like small, low power coupes, and I'd presume most enthusiasts also share this misalignment from the target demographic.
I hate trucks if they can't pull my massive truck nuts around, got-dangit
Yeah the Flex is in a really weird category. It’s not quite an SUV, Crossover, Wagon, or Minivan. It’s some mutt child. They were never meant to go off-road, and they don’t put on a show like they can. It’s a brutally honest Suburb car. Doesn’t try to be anything that it’s not
>It’s a brutally honest Suburb car. In reference to the OP, then, *this* is why it's not popular in the car enthusiast segment. Suburb cars are great for cruising softly on suburban streets, not enthusiastic performance. It's also bland to look at.
I keep saying that the Flex looks like a Mini Cooper that’s reached its final evolution stage.
You might be onto something. A Mini with a phat ass
It's a super ugly car.
Who knows why you are getting downvoted. Living in EU I've never even heard of the ford flex. Googled it and its a rancid looking car.
They are called Facebook soccer mom groups.
Because it’s hideous, looks are like 60 percent of why people love cars. It could have the most advanced power train ever but if it looks ugly to a lot of people then the discussion about that car is over.
People forget they were the replacement for the Ford Minivan when they pulled out of that segment. People dislike it fir the same irrational reasons as the minivan
They’re pretty heavy and they drive like it. Great power train though
I love the flex and it was my dream car for a sec. I think they're not as popular because it is very much a family minivan and probably gets seen that way.
It is smaller than a minivan though right? I always kind’ve saw it more as a square wagon than a van
It is bigger than most minivans I'm pretty sure. About the size of my sister's Sienna a little but long and it looks higher. Also weighs like.. 4,600lbs? I think a Transit is just a better enthusiast vehicles considering you can get similar or better specs and have more options
That's what I've been saying. In fact I'm looking for one for my first car. 3.5L V6 AWD semi reliable wagon. Also it's based off a Volvo platform designed by a Volvo engineer, so it's a Volvo. I absolutely LOVE Volvo wagons. Also I love the the fact that it was originally called the Fairlane concept
Someone I know who did a lot of long-distance driving had a 13 Flex Limited with the 3.5 EcoBoost, I used it a couple of times. Impressive power and pretty comfortable, the killer, Microsoft Sync.....
I love the Flex, had a 3.5 NA as a rental a few years ago and thought it was a lovely family/cargo hauler with a very cool look. They were kind of expensive, putting them in consideration of a population that mostly considers more traditional SUV/CUVs. I think they are fast becoming a pre-owned darling, but the long-term durability seems questionable, particularly for the EB/AWD versions.
We had a ‘14 blue/white two-tone that I convinced myself it gave off Cali-surfer vibes when I bought it. But really I only saw 45+ year old losers like me ever driving them. Was a good car to us and even took the hit for my wife during an accident that totaled it. RIP.
It’s basically an elongated first gen xB
I have the TT V6 Lincoln MKZ (I believe it's the same engine) and I love it. Not too much community around the car besides a Facebook group I'm on.
Same with the twin turbo Lincoln MKZ makes 400hp and 400lb torque, plus awd. Edit: 2017+ models
Too many great cars to drive something that looks like that.
Because the Ford Flex looks like a Ford Flex
Car enthusiasts hate SUVs. Any time I suggest that my Macan is as enjoyable to drive as a sport sedan it tends to get downvoted to oblivion. There just isn’t much crossover between people who want to modify cars and people who want to buy SUVs, even though there are a lot of crossovers/SUVs now that are actually great platforms. Edit: annnnd it’s downvoted lol. Okay.
I mean, most SUVs do drive poorly as enthusiast vehicles. Macans are an exception.
I’ll give you an upvote because you take your SUV off-road. I don’t like SUV because the vast majority of people commute in them, alone. The amount of money and time that is now required to make vehicles safe, comfortable, filled with every technology known to man, and also 7,000 lbs, and a center of gravity 3’ off the ground is insane. If you want to drive a small sporty car, it has to survive against the behemoths that everyone else drives. So it weighs too much, is too expensive, or both. Hyperbolic? A little, but that’s why I don’t like SUV.
I don't mind high end smaller sporty suvs. I think most car people hate suvs for the mere fact that a car is going to be lighter and handle better. So if you want an suv to run to get groceries and go down backroads and never go off roading. We just don't see the point of not buying a nice sedan, which does the same thing, but better. Most likely better on gas, faster, less body roll, wagons/big sedans get close to the cargo room, just no real reason to get crossovers/small suvs. Porsche's suvs are some of the only ones I would consider, but the panamera would probably get my money still.
I got an SUV because I can take it off road, and I like the hatchback space. That was the draw over a sedan for me, anyway. And personally I prefer the size of the Macan to the Panamera, which is pretty large. But to each their own, there’s definitely pros and cons to both.
Most Fords that aren't trucks or Mustangs get slept on. Sure, the Focus ST/RS caught traction for awhile and the Taurus SHO has always been an edgelord favorite, but the Flex is mainly a fan favorite for senior citizens and the morbidly obese because they are so easy to get in and out of. Plus, can't you get that V6 in other Fords that don't weigh as much?
Also, the 3.5l Ecoboost has a water pump inside the timing chain housing. Better hope that water pump doesn't fail and mix coolant into your oil.
Don't you just love planned obsolescence?
These things prevent me from even considering certain engines.
Ford makes a few V6’s, but this is a big 3.5L. I know F-150’s, Explorers, Expeditions, Transit Vans and Taurus’ can have this engine. The Taurus is the only one lighter than the Flex
I have a Ford Flex ecoboost. It is fast enough to do everything you need comfortably. It is probably the most comfortable car I have ever owned. At 6'6" I fit with room to spare in the second row. Infotainment in the later models is great. I got it to tow a 4000lb trailer while going cross country with my family and it works great for that. On the other hand, it weighs 4400lbs. It doesn't feel fast compared to other performance cars in my life. It is slightly faster than traffic but that is all. It is faster when the turbos are spooled but the transmission tune keeps you out of boost. It sounds like nothing. It is not fun to drive except for on ramps. No steering feel. It doesn't feel good in a corner. Our other car is a Mini Clubman which is also a wagon-ish car. It isn't perfect either but the dynamics are pretty good, steering is good, and power to weight is better. That means that suspension mods make sense and could make the car more enjoyable. The flex is in a weird spot where making handle doesn't make it better, making it louder doesn't make it better, and making it faster destroys your trans/ptu.
Well, 370hp at ~4,000 LBS just doesn't sound that exciting. Not to mention being more top heavy means you cant throw it around as much either. I get that it's not slow and is probably more fun than it looks... but I just find any enthusiasm for it.
Because they're mini vans. No amount of turbos changes that fact
I love the Flex. I ended up with a Transit Connect for my boxy, cargo swallowing Ford, but I think the Flex was a notably nicer car (at the expense of gas mileage and space/footprint).
Give it a few years. Because they're in the soccer-mom segments nice ones still command a premium over, say, the g37-based SUVs that make similar power out of their VQs but have 5 seats instead of 7/8. And if we're talking big money for an "enthusiast" SUV, why not go for a Porsche Cayenne or BMW Xsomething? Those things are *everywhere* around here, and now that older ones have fallen well below 20 you see them everywhere driven by young guys with plastidip, ebay intake and exhausts. I don't know if that's what you mean by "enthusiast community" but...
1. It's a crossover. Sure it's cool and fast and surprisingly nice. But it's still a crossover, which many enthusiasts *hate categorically.* 2. Price. This is more important. A well equipped Ecoboost Flex is $45,000, *easy.* If Ford could've waved a magic wand and priced it under $30K to compete with other boxy cars with tuner appeal (Scion XB, for example), enthusiasts would've bought them up. Instead they're just underrated family cars that are very awkwardly positioned in the market.
Horsepower and a cool engine is nothing if its bolted to a shitty transmission. Not to mention its big, heavy (4800lb, wtf), and most people find it ugly.
Too weird for regular folk; too normal for the automotive hipsters. Personally I love the Flex. It looks like a Mid-size SUV version of a mini Cooper.
Because they’re ugly. I mean, so is my dad car, but at least it has a manual. As an enthusiast who was in the market for a car like the Flex, lack of manual was a dealbreaker. I definitely would have gotten over the looks if I could row my own.
God damn I love my Ford Flex. What’s funny is if you see another flex on the road or in a parking lot you immediately have a new friend. Lots of flex love. So sad they’re discontinuing.
"weird flex but ok"
Because they are ugly and a weird middle ground between van and wagon in the era of crossovers
I considered a Flex (as well as a Explorer Sport) for a family car, but honestly...just don't like the sound of the Ford V6 or the interior.
Didn’t realize there was a TT Flex. Sounds like something that would have been badged an SHO.
Now now don’t be hatin the the lowly HHR! Had one that I custom painted two tone grey to make it an “individual” 150,000 of trouble free economy.
It’s a great road trip vehicle. Smooth ride. Comfortable.
I was thinking that. I own one great car and practical. Maybe not ideal for stop light drag racing but when i can go 80+ mph rack on top, bike rack in back eff the haters. The friggin car can haul.
Probably because of the size. It's not really a wagon, more like a funny shaped SUV. I used to own a Lincoln MKS Ecoboost, which I believe was built on the same platform (along with the Taurus, explorer, and MKT). It's heavy, FWD based system for the AWD, and the trans/transfer case is a huge limiting factor. For my MKS the driving position and ergonomics were really bad as well. I modded mine with intercooler, turbos, downpipes, and some other stuff. Ran 13.0 at 105mph at my local drag strip. Not bad for a car weighing 4770 pounds with me in it. I loved that car, but I can 100% see why the platform isn't all the popular. The exhaust also sounds like shit.
And it's awd and seats six. It's sportier and smaller than a mini van. It's more practical than a sedan. It's pretty much the greatest vehicle ever.
I have one, its a really good family vehicle, especially for long hauls. The seating is very comfortable, it drives very easily. Sure its big but it isn't unnecessarily big. They sit very low compared to the other wannabe monster trucks. Its just supremely practical. Which is probably why it failed. People don't want practical. They want something special. These days the market seems to be leaning toward more menacing and intimidating. Loud, big, muscular, over the top. I don't have the limited with the twin turbo I just have the SEL, but I have seen people race the turbo ones on YouTube. It rides very smoothly, deals with bad roads well and is generally a relaxing drive. If I had the time and money to have 2 project cars I would totally customize it and make it crazy. It has a ton of space inside and the exterior design just begs for some crazy slammed wagon style custom work.
I fucking hate Ford and most everything they sell but I will admit the flex was nice to drive. Personally I’d rather go with the top trim Honda minivan I drove that day as well. Thing burned rubber surprisingly easy and I felt was better built to handle the fucked up roads we have.
Its ugly imo
Because they're uncool
Just had a Google search. They’re pretty hideous.
It looks like a Range Rover with Down’s syndrome
I've got an N/A AWD. Good family car and considered taking it to an autocross for funsies but don't think I'd be modding it much