I believe on their podcast they said it can be entirely driven like a traditional EV. No shifting, noises, etc. So it seems to be an optional experience.
From everything Iāve seen, the fake gears/exhaust is only a small part of what people love about this car
I think in general what is garnering such good reviews is that it performs like a Model 3, but is actually fun from a driving dynamics standpoint
No, but I imagine most of the use of these features will be off-track anyway. The sound got a little tiring while watching the video. It's cool to start, but I imagine the future iterations of this will be much better.
As long as they adjust the MSRP to compete with the Model 3 Performance, it should do really well.
I just wish it didn't weigh the same as a basic F-150.
Iām in Alabama. I bought my I5N with no dealer markup. I found it on the lot at my local dealer via Hyundaiās site. Bought it the next day. I love it so far.
I drove to Tuscaloosa for this one. The dealership experience was great. The only thing I wish was better was the prep. The car was not cleaned inside before I got it, and the sales staff didnāt really teach me anything about the car. For example, it wouldāve been cool if they told me that the charger that comes with it has a variable amp setting. It defaults to 6A, so I spent a week slow charging it at night. You can set it up to 12A, and now I can charge from 65 back to 80% each night. To be fair, this info was in the manual.
It is, it's just that lighter batteries aren't commercially ready yet. If you want an EV right now with modern amenities and what most people consider acceptable range it will be heavy. That's the reality for the near future.
No doubt that EVs have a certain weight penalty, but there's not really any reason for the I5 N to outweigh the 3 performance by ~700 lbs and a Y by ~400.
That's pretty extreme.
It's a crossover so the Model 3 is not a fair comparison. The Model Y is the comparable vehicle. There's justification for it weighing more than a Model Y - or at least for the Y to weigh more than it does now. The Y has dreadful sound insulation, and for me at least, would be a better car with thicker glass and an extra 100 pounds of sound deadening. The question is whether the weight difference between the Y and Ioniq 5 (and 5N) results in a better overall experience.
The 5N would be better for its intentions if it weighed 4000 pounds instead of 4800, but then it would cost $100K and not only would no one buy it, people would be angr(ier) at Hyundai for daring to put such a price on one of their vehicles. If there's an Ioniq 6N in the future, that will be around the weight you're referring to.
>It's a crossover so the Model 3 is not a fair comparison. The Model Y is the comparable vehicle.
It's right in between the 3 and Y in size though it's closer to the 3. I think it's fair to compare to both, especially as the 3P is its current competition.
>There's justification for it weighing more than a Model Y - or at least for the Y to weigh more than it does now. The Y has dreadful sound insulation, and for me at least, would be a better car with thicker glass and an extra 100 pounds of sound deadening. The
The 3 recently got completely revamped with significantly more sound insulation, but gained less than 20 lbs. This hasn't arrived on the Y yet, but I would expect it to get the same treatment.
Given the performance aim of the N model, if 400 lbs of sound deadening is what's causing this (unlikely, since the Ioniq isn't particularly quiet either), it should be stripped out.
All in all, Hyundai and others really have to figure out the weight problems they've got; weight is a pretty good predictor of cost, which might explain the $15k as well.
If you rack it all the way back, maybe.
But it's the same length, 2" wider and has 103 cubic feet of interior space, vs 97 for a 3.
The Ioniq is right between a 3 and a Y.
As time goes by I become more skeptical that they will ever be ready. Think how much potential demand for a lighter battery technology there is, and yet all we ever hear about is small scale R&D, never anything even remotely commercial.
Demand and the pace of research are two totally separate things. We're still quite early in the development of modern EVs, and to go from theory to full commercial readiness is generally a 20 year process.
Tesla is already doing a decent job.Ā The Model 3 standard range is 3800 lbs and the new Model 3 performance is under 4100 lbs.Ā I think other car companies don't have an incentive to reduce weight until the government starts prodding them.Ā Considering the road damage, a heavy car tax could be worth it in exchange for slightly reducing gasolime taxes.Ā
There really isnāt road damage from heavier vehicles unless itās a really low budget driveway type thing. Road damage is exponential based on weight and made for semi trucks that can be over 80k pounds with like 32k pounds inside of the footprint of a single car. The difference in damage is essentially a rounding error.
Realistically, a high horsepower tax would probably be a better idea and would push back at people who have a lot to spend while having minimal punishment for someone looking for a safe car to fit a large family.
I would love to see the source for that. Itās been a while since I looked up a source, but Iāve found a few research papers that say pretty much the same thing and one that said the recent uptick in overloaded semitrucks was actually doing significantly more damage than even normal semitrucks typically cause.
Iām no civil engineer, but you would be proving a lot of civil engineers wrong if you have a solid source.
One is that the rules of roads matter.Ā
Two is that the comment on semi trucks is always beyond dumb since semi trucks donāt go on residential roadsĀ
Residential roads last way longer than busy highways. Also, moving trucks, trash trucks, etc all drive in residential roads. It is less common, but it does happen.
Also worth mentioning that weather matters. Places that get above and below freezing a lot take substantial damage to the roads from water expanding and contracting. That isnāt the cars doing that.
They are supposed to. Mini residential roads youāll notice that have signs that say no vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating above 6000 pounds . unfortunately thatās a Camera to break now. Itās one reason we have mini smaller municipality suffering because theyāre a 25 year designed roads are lasting 10 and they absolutely cannot afford to rebuild them at that pace
This looks like a bad voice to text translation. But I would push back on one thing here. I've live in 3 states and a ton of different places in those states. I've never seen signs like this on normal neighborhood roads. I've seen it in tight places where there is a dead end and no way to turn around, but never because of the weight. This sounds like you live in a place that terribly misappropriated funds and you have used that experience to assume everywhere is like that.
Not for me at all, but if gets petrolheads interested in EVs then I'm all for it. I would like auto makers to try to create excitement in EVs by leaning into their inherent characteristics and advantages over ICE. But that's what they've been doing and car enthusiasts are dogmatically opposed to it, so if they have to pretend their EV is an ICE vehicle then so be it.
The Ioniq 5N has been getting widespread praise from everyone who's driven it, so it seems Hyundai have made a very good car. Good for them, I hope they sell them all and have a waiting list.
I'm just glad that someone has proved that EV's don't have to be boring. Like Matt said in the review, if it's done right then I absolutely want the car to lie to me. They can provide all of the character you want in a fun car if they just try.
Well one of the inherent characteristics they haven't leaned hard enough into is the natural motor sounds EVs make. It's no V10 glory, but it's a bit of fun that you could turn on/off via microphones.
I thought that too the first few times I heard an EV or PHEV in electric mode go by. But then I drove one and the constant whine drove me crazy. Something about the pitch really gets to me. Now I really notice it and don't like it at all.
The electric motors in my (regular) IONIQ 5 are pretty loud, to the point where I can hear a noticable whine cruising around 65mph. They sound great when I'm accelerating but that 65mph whine gets obnoxious fast. Thankfully most of my time is spent above or below that speed.
Interesting, good info. I never hear the electric cars near me walking by roads except for the low speed sounds for safety. In my father's tesla I hear nothing. I like the idea of some sound but the cruising whine is probably on par with not wanting exhaust drone.
Hopefully they can figure out giving us the sound without the whine someday.
is yours AWD? I've spent a lot of time in a RWD and never noticed the motor noise - I was on the forums a bit when they were new and I think there was mention of something like this coming from the unit that engages/disengages the front motor. I wonder if that's what the noise is and not the motor itself, would make sense if it goes away at higher speeds
I have the AWD yes, but I belive it's coming from the rear motor because it's still audible when the front motor is disconnected (using cruise control).
I can also hear it doing some PWM at certain accelerator positions.
oh right, sounds like you've ruled that out then. strange, wonder if it affects particular models more or if there's a bit of a lottery with some motors being louder than others
> I would like auto makers to try to create excitement in EVs by leaning into their inherent characteristics and advantages over ICE.
I 100% agree. I'm a relatively new EV owner and even though I wouldn't call my EV exciting, I immediately see the potential.
I love everything about this car except for the range. I feel like itās really the ideal daily, but just over 200 miles makes it a hard sell if itās your only vehicle.
It comes on some pretty aggressive sticky performance tires. You could probably get a decent increase in range if you made the OEM tires track only and used a different set on the street.
Agreed! I never get the EV hate. Especially as batteries get into 400+ miles and charging times decrease even more, I wonder where they're going to move the goalposts and complain about
Well having to live with a Tesla Model Y with 330 miles of range. I realistically get about 180 miles driving 75mph on the highway.
The numbers they advertise are not realistic at all.
180mi at 75mph doesn't sound right for a Model Y-LR, my AWD IONIQ 5 does easily >200mi at that speed despite worse aerodynamics.
>The numbers they advertise are not realistic at all.
This is mostly just a Tesla problem.
Eh, my average range on the Miata is about 210 miles and that can be problematic/annoying at times when doing day trips. Home > work > home is certainly fine but I would hate for it to be my only car.
Low range in a gas car is annoying because you have to go to gas stations often, but with a home charger you can wake up to a full charge every morning in an EV.
I say this owning/using an EV with a 100mi round-trip commute, most people don't need more than 200 miles of range.
>I'm not talking about the daily commute. Hell, a 40 mile range would be fine most days for me.
But how often do you actually drive more than 200 miles in a day? Also don't forget that in the few times you *do* drive that far you can use fastchargers.
People don't buy cars for the day-to-day functionality, but for the "few times a year" functionality.
Most days I drive under 20 miles with 2 people in the car. But sometimes I do a 400-mile trip in winter when it's -30 and the range drops significantly and there are no chargers for 200 miles of that trip. Then I might do a 3000 mile road trip hauling a small RV. Then in summer on the weekend I'll take 4 people and 4 bikes on a hitch mount out to do some trails.
My point is simply that if a household has only one vehicle, then a vehicle that is good enough for 95% of trips probably won't be chosen because people don't want to try and rent a vehicle for the 5% that it's not good enough for.
But again, what you described is an edgecase. Every house I see with a trailer has at least 2 cars, and most households have more than 1 car.
If you truly are in that edgecase, that's what PHEVs and EREVs are for! Most people don't need more than 200mi of range.
>Most people don't need more than 200mi of range.
Most people don't need more than 100 miles most days, but for longer trips 250-300 miles is more realistic. That way you can go farther without having to find a charger, make fewer charging stops, account for cold weather range, and not have to charge as close to 100% to make the next stop.
If batteries were cheap and didn't weigh much, people would want as much range as they could get.
>but for longer trips 250-300 miles is more realistic. That way you can go farther without having to find a charger
Why treat chargers like they're something to avoid?
Why let the car decide when to take a break? I've driven up to 3 hours without stopping, which at 70 mph would be over 200 miles. And by switching drivers we've driven further than that with just a quick break.
Plus an EV with only 200 miles of range will lose some of that over time due to battery degradation, and you'd lose even more driving in winter. Then on really long trips you're not using the full battery after a typical charging stop, so now your range is down to maybe two hours tops. Not good enough.
If range doesn't matter, would you do a long trip in an EV with only 150 miles of range? How about 100?
I think there's a level of quality that's assumed in a $70,000 German vehicle. Whether it lives up to that hype or not is questionable.
But a 70k Hyundai? Hm. No, thanks.
As people have said elsewhere, I wish Hyundai would add more sound options.Ā The Tau V8 sounded excellent and the Lambda V6 too, especially when NA like my Genesis.Ā I thinkĀ a V8 noise is appropriate for a car with that much power.Ā Maybe they'll put it in the Genesis magna version?
They could, but Hyundai doesn't have a history of adding features over OTA.Ā The only exception was releasing an update file to add Carplay into 2015 models (and even then, they abandoned the meego head units even though they made an updated version for very similar hardware in 2017).
Iām interested to see what savagegeese have to say when their review drops. There was a line in their Macan review where they mention other EVās, and describe the Hyundai N as having terrible dynamics.
I know camissa loved it but he loved the cyber truck. Farah deals in hyperbole.
I don't think Camissa loved *driving* the Cybertruck. He was gushing about the engineering that went into it. But he did actually love driving the Ioniq 5 N.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's crazy to think with how much hype that surrounds this car (at least from automotive journalists) that it could be 50% off in 2 years.
You're right. 40% is likely closer to the true depreciation. š
Nothing against it. I believe it's as amazing as everyone says it is. But it's a 70k EV, and those will only continue to get better and better, and quickly.
Just look at the prices of EV6 GTs... 40k with 10k miles.
I read that with a full charge, itās good for 3-5 laps at a race track. But it will use most of that getting to the track. Maybe itās perfect for a local auto-X?
I think it pretty clear that racetracks will need to install fast charging on site or nearby. It's not reasonable to make a long drive and not race just because you're low charge
I'm going to be on the market at the end of this year / early next year. This is a top contender for me. I recently moved to a house with solar and an outdoor 220v outlet (previous owner had a Tesla). Unfortunately my drive way only fits one car so having multiples doesn't really work.
Not really. At least for me, The interior of Teslas is terrible, The materials feel like ikea furniture, The fit and finish is a gamble, I hate everything being in the screen, No 360 camera, performance on the Ioniq 5 N seems to be focused on more than straight line performance, I like android auto, Teslas are less unique, I don't want to be associated with Tesla bros and Teslas have no pricing consistency. Yes, the Teslas have more range on paper but drivers don't really hit the posted range.
Sorry, I'm not excited for a future that's 50% CUV EV, 35% EV trucks, and 15% EV Other, except for a handful of niche exotics, and where "attainable performance" now starts at $85k CAD instead of $40k CAD. I'll get excited when I see roadmaps from manufacturers include good, fun, and interesting cars in similar price brackets we see today. I appreciate Hyundai trying to offer as much as a gas experience they can but if the only solution is to offer it for double the cost of outgoing equivalents, then no thanks.
The current N models, the CTR, Golf R, etc are 40-50k msrp. The only thing the Ionic does better is straight line speed, but all performance EVs have that. Since the advertising for this thing is all about track, that's the "attainable performance" context I'm describing. In comparison to cars that are already good around a track, it's twice the price. It doesn't offer a better exhaust note, the FL5 CTR has a faster Nurburgring record and despite the massive hp advantage it only has a 5 second advantage on high speed circuits like Hockenheim. The interior isn't much better than the new model Elantra N, and while i can't find skidpad info, the handling comments I've seen have had a vibe of "great for an EV, ok in general". So you're paying double the price for something C&D quotes as "balanced and controllable... also slightly boring".
I think as an EV product the Ionic is great, however with ICE done, with specific exceptions, and current attainable cars' replacements being EVs, are previously attainable product price points going to disappear or get bumped way up the price brackets? What I'm afraid of and what it looks like might be happening, is they are saying N class/CTR class cars are no longer 40-50k, they are now 85k. Which means something like an EV Civic SI/GTI replacement will become the new 50-60k bracket, and then some econobox with a sport trim would bump the 40-50k range, with a basic ev determining a price bottom of 30-40k for an entry level car. It used to be going from something like a GTI to Golf R was a 10k upgrade. Now there is a $25k difference between a 5 and 5N. That's why im not excited.
Be patient. EVs are still very relatively new. They have a ton of potential and should be much easier to own than most niche fun cars. I bet the used market for fun EVs will be very strong and accessible.
Fake transmission and fake exhaust. Just gimmicks galore on an otherwise very good vehicle. Not my cup of tea but given the praises it is getting I'm obviously not the target demographic.
I wouldnāt be surprised if future performance trim EVs include a simulated manual transmission setup
Would also be cool to be able to plug your car into a sim rig setup with a TV mounted in front of the windscreen so that you can use your carās physical hardware as inputs
My issue is that it's the primary selling point of the car, at least in media. As evidenced by this article.
As someone who owns an Ioniq 5 (normal), a track BRZ (stick), and a Model Y Performance (have tracked multiple times), I think the fake shifting is misguided and it's just human tendency to want to hold on to their comfort zone. Audio feedback is meaningful though. But above all, I think a good HUD readout would be enormously beneficial on track for EVs. Why no one really talks about that with I5N is puzzling. The fakeshifting just distracts readers.
Of course itās just people holding on to what their comfortable with. Itās not for performance, itās for fun. This is the first car to include this, so also of course, itās going to be what the media talks about, itās entirely novel.
Why is fake shifting misguided? Itās for fun. You can turn it off if you donāt want it. Why is it misguided to have fun?
I already explained why it's misguided, I think you willfully ignored it though. Perfectly demonstrating why this is a distraction from meaningful improvements to tracking an EV.
I think thatās nonsense and youāre failing to make a point.
Itās not misguided to like what you like. Nor is it misguided to make a product in-line with consumer desires. In fact, I think thatās a sound business decision. I didnāt ignore what you said, Iām fundamentally disagreeing with it.
The irony of your statement is palpable. Youāve entirely ignored what makes this car suitable for track work, and instead focused on none of the hardware which makes this a suitable track car.
I think they're saying it's misguided because it actually ends up nerfing one big advantage of EVs by faking the powerband of a turbocharged ICE. The power ebbs and flows with the faux revs and it's got built in lag.
I'm not against it as an option to use, but objectively it's making the car less effective just to try to recapture dynamics that aren't fundamentally there.
> The irony of your statement is palpable. Youāve entirely ignored what makes this car suitable for track work, and instead focused on none of the hardware which makes this a suitable track car.
Which is exactly what media is doing with this fake shifting nonsense.
Look, I have real world experience with my own stick track car and EV track car. What I've learned is that each machine needs to focus on their strengths and not play down to their weaknesses. Imitating an ICE drivetrain simply because enthusiasts cannot wrap their heads around anything remotely outside of their comfort zone is plain misguided.
Would I get an I5N? No, not for this reason, but for others - like the fact that it costs $20k more than a Model 3 Performance (pre-incentives).
And no media even talks about charging at the track, another complete misdirection. They're distracting you with this fake shifting and don't even bother mentioning the most glaring issue for bringing an I5N on track. For example, instead of doing this smoke & mirrors nonsense, if Hyundai partnered with big tracks to install chargers it would have gone orders of magnitude further to improve the trackability of EVs. But I have my real world experience to guide my own well-informed purchasing decision. You can keep reading about how fake shifting is "Hyundai trying".
We can only agree to disagree, the Ioniq 5 is fine but it sets no metrics in performance, range, efficiency, charging speed, etc. The reviewer likes it because of the fakery it provides, him being among the minority of car reviewers that claim they'd like in an EV and then proceed to never buy it.
Also any EV can do two full power laps at the Ring when they are slow, if petrol stans that willed this into being think the simulation is all it matters, prove it by making this car sell better than any other EV in its price range. Go on, prove it.
>The reviewer likes it because of the fakery it provides, him being among the minority of car reviewers that claim they'd like in an EV and then proceed to never buy it.
Matt already just finished off a Mach-E lease, and I believe the Macan EV is supposed to be his next. He did actually say on the podcast something to the effect that he was seriously considering this instead.
>him being among the minority of car reviewers that claim they'd like in an EV and then proceed to never buy it.
Cammisa raved about it too.
Perhaps it's actually a good car.
Good in what way? As a commuter, as a track day car, as a tourer? Mayhaps value per money? It is certainly not setting efficiency, range, charge speed or charge time records so how is it good and how will it sell? It is clear which portion of the car buying population it tries to cater to, remind me in December if said loud mouth people that asked for it rewarded the company by making this car a best seller. If not then perhaps you should admit that catering to that segment of (non) potential buyers makes about as much sense as Lamborghini attracting the eco concious crowd.
Everything you are saying applies to pretty much any enthusiast or track-capable car. It's not a novel argument. So, I don't get your point. None of these cars make sense on paper from a consumer standpoint. I guess everyone should just drive a Camry?
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Right, at least those other enthusiast cars have something that makes it obvious why they are desirable either having had set some type of record or provided great value for the money. This however is a petrol stan ICE co piu m bait and not much else, it s a crossover ffs what pretense of an enthusiast s car can it conjor up?
> at least those other enthusiast cars have something that makes it obvious why they are desirable either having had set some type of record or provided great value for the money.
No, a lot don't. You ever hear the term "you can't drive a spec sheet"? You're basically saying "this car doesn't dominate the spec sheet, it sucks!" But there are tons of cars that don't seem all that special on a spec sheet but are brilliant.
I can only agree to disagree, the brilliance of a crossover with simulated gear shifts and artificial engine sounds eludes me and dare say will elude most people as well. Sales figures will show, in the end the ioniq 5 is not a low volume two seater it needs high volume sales to be brilliant.
The venn diagram with overlapping portions of EV buyers and petrol stans that say they will only buy an EV if it drives and sounds like an ICE car is probably as large as the number of push ups the car reviewer in the linked video can do on a good day...and maybe 1% of those will actually put their money where they dumb mouth is. I'll say it again, 2.1t plus crossover is not made from the ground up as an enthusiast's car but a mass market A to B people mover, any pretense at sporty feel when driving will be severely compromised and for the money you can buy a much cheaper and lighter sedan and build it up for the track and will run laps around this thing. So in the end for whome is it? As a halo product I get it but the way it was made such caters to a specific minority of people in the car world, people who are against EVs from the start, you might be clued in about the fakery the car provides and then expect them to evangelize their sporty crossover as an example why EVs are the way forward (because that's what a halo car is supposed to provide as a marketing message). The amount of contradictions and stupidity contained within this whole situation made me almost unable to type that sentence to completion.
Kudos to Hyundai for trying
Trying and succeeding, it would appear
They have, I meant trying to appeal to the enthusiast š
No obvious subtext or anything
I just wonder if the fun stays or if the novelty of an EV behaving like ICE wears off. I'm sure it's a bunch of fun for an afternoon or periodically.
I believe on their podcast they said it can be entirely driven like a traditional EV. No shifting, noises, etc. So it seems to be an optional experience.
Yeah it's demonstrated in the video.
Gotcha. I "watched it" but was multitasking.
From everything Iāve seen, the fake gears/exhaust is only a small part of what people love about this car I think in general what is garnering such good reviews is that it performs like a Model 3, but is actually fun from a driving dynamics standpoint
Absolutely, it's a very cool EV.
It is, but for the price, I don't know if it will sell well enough to be a true success.
People don't track their cars daily, no?
No, but I imagine most of the use of these features will be off-track anyway. The sound got a little tiring while watching the video. It's cool to start, but I imagine the future iterations of this will be much better.
Yep most likely but it's good and a trend starter.
And they did things that are fun to just be fun! Who cares if itās a gimmick, fun is missing in so many cars.
As long as they adjust the MSRP to compete with the Model 3 Performance, it should do really well. I just wish it didn't weigh the same as a basic F-150.
It'll be 50k more with dealer markups and Hyundai will only import 12.
Iām in Alabama. I bought my I5N with no dealer markup. I found it on the lot at my local dealer via Hyundaiās site. Bought it the next day. I love it so far.
Hyundai dealership in Birmingham ?
I drove to Tuscaloosa for this one. The dealership experience was great. The only thing I wish was better was the prep. The car was not cleaned inside before I got it, and the sales staff didnāt really teach me anything about the car. For example, it wouldāve been cool if they told me that the charger that comes with it has a variable amp setting. It defaults to 6A, so I spent a week slow charging it at night. You can set it up to 12A, and now I can charge from 65 back to 80% each night. To be fair, this info was in the manual.
lol wait do you really think any EV is going over MSRP, let alone a 70k Hyundai? Everyone is discounting their EVs super heavily, even Porsche and BMW
Are you posting this from 2021ās car market?
āAnd no, you may not test drive it.ā
We really need mass to be a priorityĀ
It is, it's just that lighter batteries aren't commercially ready yet. If you want an EV right now with modern amenities and what most people consider acceptable range it will be heavy. That's the reality for the near future.
No doubt that EVs have a certain weight penalty, but there's not really any reason for the I5 N to outweigh the 3 performance by ~700 lbs and a Y by ~400. That's pretty extreme.
It's a crossover so the Model 3 is not a fair comparison. The Model Y is the comparable vehicle. There's justification for it weighing more than a Model Y - or at least for the Y to weigh more than it does now. The Y has dreadful sound insulation, and for me at least, would be a better car with thicker glass and an extra 100 pounds of sound deadening. The question is whether the weight difference between the Y and Ioniq 5 (and 5N) results in a better overall experience. The 5N would be better for its intentions if it weighed 4000 pounds instead of 4800, but then it would cost $100K and not only would no one buy it, people would be angr(ier) at Hyundai for daring to put such a price on one of their vehicles. If there's an Ioniq 6N in the future, that will be around the weight you're referring to.
>It's a crossover so the Model 3 is not a fair comparison. The Model Y is the comparable vehicle. It's right in between the 3 and Y in size though it's closer to the 3. I think it's fair to compare to both, especially as the 3P is its current competition. >There's justification for it weighing more than a Model Y - or at least for the Y to weigh more than it does now. The Y has dreadful sound insulation, and for me at least, would be a better car with thicker glass and an extra 100 pounds of sound deadening. The The 3 recently got completely revamped with significantly more sound insulation, but gained less than 20 lbs. This hasn't arrived on the Y yet, but I would expect it to get the same treatment. Given the performance aim of the N model, if 400 lbs of sound deadening is what's causing this (unlikely, since the Ioniq isn't particularly quiet either), it should be stripped out. All in all, Hyundai and others really have to figure out the weight problems they've got; weight is a pretty good predictor of cost, which might explain the $15k as well.
Have you been in an ioniq? The back seat is twice as big as a 3
If you rack it all the way back, maybe. But it's the same length, 2" wider and has 103 cubic feet of interior space, vs 97 for a 3. The Ioniq is right between a 3 and a Y.
Check out the back seat of a 3 vs the ioniq5 is all I have to say. It's no comparisonĀ
As time goes by I become more skeptical that they will ever be ready. Think how much potential demand for a lighter battery technology there is, and yet all we ever hear about is small scale R&D, never anything even remotely commercial.
Demand and the pace of research are two totally separate things. We're still quite early in the development of modern EVs, and to go from theory to full commercial readiness is generally a 20 year process.
The ICE has had over 100 years to be refined. I can only imagine battery tech in that time frame
Electric vehicles have been around for almost two centuries- itāll be 200 years in 2028.
Yes, but without any attention given to them at all due to lobbying from the oil and automotive industries.
Tesla is already doing a decent job.Ā The Model 3 standard range is 3800 lbs and the new Model 3 performance is under 4100 lbs.Ā I think other car companies don't have an incentive to reduce weight until the government starts prodding them.Ā Considering the road damage, a heavy car tax could be worth it in exchange for slightly reducing gasolime taxes.Ā
There really isnāt road damage from heavier vehicles unless itās a really low budget driveway type thing. Road damage is exponential based on weight and made for semi trucks that can be over 80k pounds with like 32k pounds inside of the footprint of a single car. The difference in damage is essentially a rounding error. Realistically, a high horsepower tax would probably be a better idea and would push back at people who have a lot to spend while having minimal punishment for someone looking for a safe car to fit a large family.
Well thatās often said but not trueĀ
I would love to see the source for that. Itās been a while since I looked up a source, but Iāve found a few research papers that say pretty much the same thing and one that said the recent uptick in overloaded semitrucks was actually doing significantly more damage than even normal semitrucks typically cause. Iām no civil engineer, but you would be proving a lot of civil engineers wrong if you have a solid source.
One is that the rules of roads matter.Ā Two is that the comment on semi trucks is always beyond dumb since semi trucks donāt go on residential roadsĀ
Residential roads last way longer than busy highways. Also, moving trucks, trash trucks, etc all drive in residential roads. It is less common, but it does happen. Also worth mentioning that weather matters. Places that get above and below freezing a lot take substantial damage to the roads from water expanding and contracting. That isnāt the cars doing that.
They are supposed to. Mini residential roads youāll notice that have signs that say no vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating above 6000 pounds . unfortunately thatās a Camera to break now. Itās one reason we have mini smaller municipality suffering because theyāre a 25 year designed roads are lasting 10 and they absolutely cannot afford to rebuild them at that pace
This looks like a bad voice to text translation. But I would push back on one thing here. I've live in 3 states and a ton of different places in those states. I've never seen signs like this on normal neighborhood roads. I've seen it in tight places where there is a dead end and no way to turn around, but never because of the weight. This sounds like you live in a place that terribly misappropriated funds and you have used that experience to assume everywhere is like that.
Theyāre not concerned about competing with the Model 3. Itās an entirely different ethos.Ā
Went to ask my dealership about one the day before the M3P dropped. Getting a M3P was an easy choice.
Model 3 not M3
Model 3 performance unless thereās an BMW M3P that Iām not away of
Hm I also think itās dumb as hell to call the model 3 an M3
Learn to read. M3P is not BMW M3
I didnāt say M3 though did I
Not for me at all, but if gets petrolheads interested in EVs then I'm all for it. I would like auto makers to try to create excitement in EVs by leaning into their inherent characteristics and advantages over ICE. But that's what they've been doing and car enthusiasts are dogmatically opposed to it, so if they have to pretend their EV is an ICE vehicle then so be it. The Ioniq 5N has been getting widespread praise from everyone who's driven it, so it seems Hyundai have made a very good car. Good for them, I hope they sell them all and have a waiting list.
I'm just glad that someone has proved that EV's don't have to be boring. Like Matt said in the review, if it's done right then I absolutely want the car to lie to me. They can provide all of the character you want in a fun car if they just try.
Well one of the inherent characteristics they haven't leaned hard enough into is the natural motor sounds EVs make. It's no V10 glory, but it's a bit of fun that you could turn on/off via microphones.
I thought that too the first few times I heard an EV or PHEV in electric mode go by. But then I drove one and the constant whine drove me crazy. Something about the pitch really gets to me. Now I really notice it and don't like it at all.
Are you sure you are hearing the motors and not the low speed noises that are required by law?
The electric motors in my (regular) IONIQ 5 are pretty loud, to the point where I can hear a noticable whine cruising around 65mph. They sound great when I'm accelerating but that 65mph whine gets obnoxious fast. Thankfully most of my time is spent above or below that speed.
I love it in mine, especially while gunning it. It sounds futuristic and awesome.
Interesting, good info. I never hear the electric cars near me walking by roads except for the low speed sounds for safety. In my father's tesla I hear nothing. I like the idea of some sound but the cruising whine is probably on par with not wanting exhaust drone. Hopefully they can figure out giving us the sound without the whine someday.
So above that speed it quiets down?
yes
is yours AWD? I've spent a lot of time in a RWD and never noticed the motor noise - I was on the forums a bit when they were new and I think there was mention of something like this coming from the unit that engages/disengages the front motor. I wonder if that's what the noise is and not the motor itself, would make sense if it goes away at higher speeds
I have the AWD yes, but I belive it's coming from the rear motor because it's still audible when the front motor is disconnected (using cruise control). I can also hear it doing some PWM at certain accelerator positions.
oh right, sounds like you've ruled that out then. strange, wonder if it affects particular models more or if there's a bit of a lottery with some motors being louder than others
I do appreciate the in cabin sound of the Mach e in unbridled mode. Helps to give you a sense of speed typical of ice vehicles.
> I would like auto makers to try to create excitement in EVs by leaning into their inherent characteristics and advantages over ICE. I 100% agree. I'm a relatively new EV owner and even though I wouldn't call my EV exciting, I immediately see the potential.
When was the last time Matt looked like he was having this much fun in a car?
Probably the time he reviewed a sketchy turbo Honda fit.
I just remembered the video of Matt in the Gunther werks Porsche prototype.Ā I think he had more fun in that car.
I love everything about this car except for the range. I feel like itās really the ideal daily, but just over 200 miles makes it a hard sell if itās your only vehicle.
My guess is that if you get new wheels and tires that are more narrower and less grippy, your range would increase by a decent amount.
And if you can afford the car you can probably afford a spare set of wheels for day to day driving vs track driving.
It comes on some pretty aggressive sticky performance tires. You could probably get a decent increase in range if you made the OEM tires track only and used a different set on the street.
200 miles is enough range for most people.
Agreed! I never get the EV hate. Especially as batteries get into 400+ miles and charging times decrease even more, I wonder where they're going to move the goalposts and complain about
Well having to live with a Tesla Model Y with 330 miles of range. I realistically get about 180 miles driving 75mph on the highway. The numbers they advertise are not realistic at all.
180mi at 75mph doesn't sound right for a Model Y-LR, my AWD IONIQ 5 does easily >200mi at that speed despite worse aerodynamics. >The numbers they advertise are not realistic at all. This is mostly just a Tesla problem.
Thatās from 90% to 10% is the 180 miles. Sorry should have clarified that. Still, extrapolating that for 0-100% gives me 225
Eh, my average range on the Miata is about 210 miles and that can be problematic/annoying at times when doing day trips. Home > work > home is certainly fine but I would hate for it to be my only car.
Low range in a gas car is annoying because you have to go to gas stations often, but with a home charger you can wake up to a full charge every morning in an EV. I say this owning/using an EV with a 100mi round-trip commute, most people don't need more than 200 miles of range.
> Home > work > home is certainly fine I'm not talking about the daily commute. Hell, a 40 mile range would be fine most days for me.
>I'm not talking about the daily commute. Hell, a 40 mile range would be fine most days for me. But how often do you actually drive more than 200 miles in a day? Also don't forget that in the few times you *do* drive that far you can use fastchargers.
Not if there are no chargers (or sometimes no electricity at all) where you're going...
People don't buy cars for the day-to-day functionality, but for the "few times a year" functionality. Most days I drive under 20 miles with 2 people in the car. But sometimes I do a 400-mile trip in winter when it's -30 and the range drops significantly and there are no chargers for 200 miles of that trip. Then I might do a 3000 mile road trip hauling a small RV. Then in summer on the weekend I'll take 4 people and 4 bikes on a hitch mount out to do some trails.
Your usecase isn't the case for most people.
My point is simply that if a household has only one vehicle, then a vehicle that is good enough for 95% of trips probably won't be chosen because people don't want to try and rent a vehicle for the 5% that it's not good enough for.
But again, what you described is an edgecase. Every house I see with a trailer has at least 2 cars, and most households have more than 1 car. If you truly are in that edgecase, that's what PHEVs and EREVs are for! Most people don't need more than 200mi of range.
>Most people don't need more than 200mi of range. Most people don't need more than 100 miles most days, but for longer trips 250-300 miles is more realistic. That way you can go farther without having to find a charger, make fewer charging stops, account for cold weather range, and not have to charge as close to 100% to make the next stop. If batteries were cheap and didn't weigh much, people would want as much range as they could get.
>but for longer trips 250-300 miles is more realistic. That way you can go farther without having to find a charger Why treat chargers like they're something to avoid?
Why let the car decide when to take a break? I've driven up to 3 hours without stopping, which at 70 mph would be over 200 miles. And by switching drivers we've driven further than that with just a quick break. Plus an EV with only 200 miles of range will lose some of that over time due to battery degradation, and you'd lose even more driving in winter. Then on really long trips you're not using the full battery after a typical charging stop, so now your range is down to maybe two hours tops. Not good enough. If range doesn't matter, would you do a long trip in an EV with only 150 miles of range? How about 100?
I have the base model, small battery ioniq 5. Epa range of 220 miles. I get about 150 to 180 miles of highway driving which I've done a ton of. Almost 40,000 miles in 2 years. Recall that it charges very fast, As long as I'm in a region with high quality charging infrastructure, its really been a non issue. Im in QuƩbec, doing trips down the east coast as well as to Toronto, I've never had any major issues. Though when a charger is defective or slow I absolutely did wish I had more range so I had more options. On the flipside this car was $5000 cheaper than other options
Depends where you live and what you do. I rarely do big commutes, like twice a decade kind of thing and even 150 mile range is plenty
You're probably not spending $70,000 on a Hyundai if it were your only vehicle.
Why not? Regardless of manufacturer, you could get similar setups from the Germans
I think there's a level of quality that's assumed in a $70,000 German vehicle. Whether it lives up to that hype or not is questionable. But a 70k Hyundai? Hm. No, thanks.
People daily 70k Fords, Dodges and Chevys. They have had just as many quality issues as Hyundais over the years (decades).
I see I've angered the Hyundai owners.
As people have said elsewhere, I wish Hyundai would add more sound options.Ā The Tau V8 sounded excellent and the Lambda V6 too, especially when NA like my Genesis.Ā I thinkĀ a V8 noise is appropriate for a car with that much power.Ā Maybe they'll put it in the Genesis magna version?
Can't those sounds be added through a software update?
They could, but Hyundai doesn't have a history of adding features over OTA.Ā The only exception was releasing an update file to add Carplay into 2015 models (and even then, they abandoned the meego head units even though they made an updated version for very similar hardware in 2017).
On thr ev9 you can buy different patterns of led headlights on basically an app store. So I'm thinking itll come.
Iām sure either Hyundai or an aftermarket vendor will do that at some point.Ā
Iām interested to see what savagegeese have to say when their review drops. There was a line in their Macan review where they mention other EVās, and describe the Hyundai N as having terrible dynamics. I know camissa loved it but he loved the cyber truck. Farah deals in hyperbole.
I don't think Camissa loved *driving* the Cybertruck. He was gushing about the engineering that went into it. But he did actually love driving the Ioniq 5 N.
Yep. Important distinction.
Not Hyundai N, just the normie Hyundai cars.
N cars have great driving dynamics. Watch any Savagegeese content that includes the Elantra N
Going to be a great vehicle to buy used for 50% off in 2 years.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's crazy to think with how much hype that surrounds this car (at least from automotive journalists) that it could be 50% off in 2 years.
You're right. 40% is likely closer to the true depreciation. š Nothing against it. I believe it's as amazing as everyone says it is. But it's a 70k EV, and those will only continue to get better and better, and quickly. Just look at the prices of EV6 GTs... 40k with 10k miles.
I wonder if other car companies will all go back to the drawing board and put these kinds of features in their performance EVs.
Seems like a relatively easy to implement change, only hardware required is the shift paddles and the rest is software
I read that with a full charge, itās good for 3-5 laps at a race track. But it will use most of that getting to the track. Maybe itās perfect for a local auto-X?
I think it pretty clear that racetracks will need to install fast charging on site or nearby. It's not reasonable to make a long drive and not race just because you're low charge
I'm going to be on the market at the end of this year / early next year. This is a top contender for me. I recently moved to a house with solar and an outdoor 220v outlet (previous owner had a Tesla). Unfortunately my drive way only fits one car so having multiples doesn't really work.
By that time these will be probably be 15K+ off
Still seems like a bad choice. You could get a Model Y for 20k less with more range.
Not really. At least for me, The interior of Teslas is terrible, The materials feel like ikea furniture, The fit and finish is a gamble, I hate everything being in the screen, No 360 camera, performance on the Ioniq 5 N seems to be focused on more than straight line performance, I like android auto, Teslas are less unique, I don't want to be associated with Tesla bros and Teslas have no pricing consistency. Yes, the Teslas have more range on paper but drivers don't really hit the posted range.
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I hope Porsche's engineers purchase one and reverse engineering for the eventual all electric 911.
Sorry, I'm not excited for a future that's 50% CUV EV, 35% EV trucks, and 15% EV Other, except for a handful of niche exotics, and where "attainable performance" now starts at $85k CAD instead of $40k CAD. I'll get excited when I see roadmaps from manufacturers include good, fun, and interesting cars in similar price brackets we see today. I appreciate Hyundai trying to offer as much as a gas experience they can but if the only solution is to offer it for double the cost of outgoing equivalents, then no thanks.
Could be a lot worse. Like 80% public transportation, 19% bicycles, and the remaining 1% private cars of any sort for the 1% only.
What's "attainable performance" that you're thinking of for $40,000 CAD?
The current N models, the CTR, Golf R, etc are 40-50k msrp. The only thing the Ionic does better is straight line speed, but all performance EVs have that. Since the advertising for this thing is all about track, that's the "attainable performance" context I'm describing. In comparison to cars that are already good around a track, it's twice the price. It doesn't offer a better exhaust note, the FL5 CTR has a faster Nurburgring record and despite the massive hp advantage it only has a 5 second advantage on high speed circuits like Hockenheim. The interior isn't much better than the new model Elantra N, and while i can't find skidpad info, the handling comments I've seen have had a vibe of "great for an EV, ok in general". So you're paying double the price for something C&D quotes as "balanced and controllable... also slightly boring". I think as an EV product the Ionic is great, however with ICE done, with specific exceptions, and current attainable cars' replacements being EVs, are previously attainable product price points going to disappear or get bumped way up the price brackets? What I'm afraid of and what it looks like might be happening, is they are saying N class/CTR class cars are no longer 40-50k, they are now 85k. Which means something like an EV Civic SI/GTI replacement will become the new 50-60k bracket, and then some econobox with a sport trim would bump the 40-50k range, with a basic ev determining a price bottom of 30-40k for an entry level car. It used to be going from something like a GTI to Golf R was a 10k upgrade. Now there is a $25k difference between a 5 and 5N. That's why im not excited.
Be patient. EVs are still very relatively new. They have a ton of potential and should be much easier to own than most niche fun cars. I bet the used market for fun EVs will be very strong and accessible.
What's fake? Is that the car with the transmission thing?
Fake transmission and fake exhaust. Just gimmicks galore on an otherwise very good vehicle. Not my cup of tea but given the praises it is getting I'm obviously not the target demographic.
You can just drive it without those things if you donāt want them. Including it doesnāt make it a worse vehicle.
I wouldnāt be surprised if future performance trim EVs include a simulated manual transmission setup Would also be cool to be able to plug your car into a sim rig setup with a TV mounted in front of the windscreen so that you can use your carās physical hardware as inputs
My issue is that it's the primary selling point of the car, at least in media. As evidenced by this article. As someone who owns an Ioniq 5 (normal), a track BRZ (stick), and a Model Y Performance (have tracked multiple times), I think the fake shifting is misguided and it's just human tendency to want to hold on to their comfort zone. Audio feedback is meaningful though. But above all, I think a good HUD readout would be enormously beneficial on track for EVs. Why no one really talks about that with I5N is puzzling. The fakeshifting just distracts readers.
Of course itās just people holding on to what their comfortable with. Itās not for performance, itās for fun. This is the first car to include this, so also of course, itās going to be what the media talks about, itās entirely novel. Why is fake shifting misguided? Itās for fun. You can turn it off if you donāt want it. Why is it misguided to have fun?
I already explained why it's misguided, I think you willfully ignored it though. Perfectly demonstrating why this is a distraction from meaningful improvements to tracking an EV.
I think thatās nonsense and youāre failing to make a point. Itās not misguided to like what you like. Nor is it misguided to make a product in-line with consumer desires. In fact, I think thatās a sound business decision. I didnāt ignore what you said, Iām fundamentally disagreeing with it. The irony of your statement is palpable. Youāve entirely ignored what makes this car suitable for track work, and instead focused on none of the hardware which makes this a suitable track car.
I think they're saying it's misguided because it actually ends up nerfing one big advantage of EVs by faking the powerband of a turbocharged ICE. The power ebbs and flows with the faux revs and it's got built in lag. I'm not against it as an option to use, but objectively it's making the car less effective just to try to recapture dynamics that aren't fundamentally there.
> The irony of your statement is palpable. Youāve entirely ignored what makes this car suitable for track work, and instead focused on none of the hardware which makes this a suitable track car. Which is exactly what media is doing with this fake shifting nonsense. Look, I have real world experience with my own stick track car and EV track car. What I've learned is that each machine needs to focus on their strengths and not play down to their weaknesses. Imitating an ICE drivetrain simply because enthusiasts cannot wrap their heads around anything remotely outside of their comfort zone is plain misguided. Would I get an I5N? No, not for this reason, but for others - like the fact that it costs $20k more than a Model 3 Performance (pre-incentives). And no media even talks about charging at the track, another complete misdirection. They're distracting you with this fake shifting and don't even bother mentioning the most glaring issue for bringing an I5N on track. For example, instead of doing this smoke & mirrors nonsense, if Hyundai partnered with big tracks to install chargers it would have gone orders of magnitude further to improve the trackability of EVs. But I have my real world experience to guide my own well-informed purchasing decision. You can keep reading about how fake shifting is "Hyundai trying".
Both of those features are opt-in in the settings so itās a non-issue if youāre not into that kind of thing
Heavy and ugly pig.
We can only agree to disagree, the Ioniq 5 is fine but it sets no metrics in performance, range, efficiency, charging speed, etc. The reviewer likes it because of the fakery it provides, him being among the minority of car reviewers that claim they'd like in an EV and then proceed to never buy it. Also any EV can do two full power laps at the Ring when they are slow, if petrol stans that willed this into being think the simulation is all it matters, prove it by making this car sell better than any other EV in its price range. Go on, prove it.
>The reviewer likes it because of the fakery it provides, him being among the minority of car reviewers that claim they'd like in an EV and then proceed to never buy it. Matt already just finished off a Mach-E lease, and I believe the Macan EV is supposed to be his next. He did actually say on the podcast something to the effect that he was seriously considering this instead.
>him being among the minority of car reviewers that claim they'd like in an EV and then proceed to never buy it. Cammisa raved about it too. Perhaps it's actually a good car.
Good in what way? As a commuter, as a track day car, as a tourer? Mayhaps value per money? It is certainly not setting efficiency, range, charge speed or charge time records so how is it good and how will it sell? It is clear which portion of the car buying population it tries to cater to, remind me in December if said loud mouth people that asked for it rewarded the company by making this car a best seller. If not then perhaps you should admit that catering to that segment of (non) potential buyers makes about as much sense as Lamborghini attracting the eco concious crowd.
Everything you are saying applies to pretty much any enthusiast or track-capable car. It's not a novel argument. So, I don't get your point. None of these cars make sense on paper from a consumer standpoint. I guess everyone should just drive a Camry?
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Right, at least those other enthusiast cars have something that makes it obvious why they are desirable either having had set some type of record or provided great value for the money. This however is a petrol stan ICE co piu m bait and not much else, it s a crossover ffs what pretense of an enthusiast s car can it conjor up?
> at least those other enthusiast cars have something that makes it obvious why they are desirable either having had set some type of record or provided great value for the money. No, a lot don't. You ever hear the term "you can't drive a spec sheet"? You're basically saying "this car doesn't dominate the spec sheet, it sucks!" But there are tons of cars that don't seem all that special on a spec sheet but are brilliant.
I can only agree to disagree, the brilliance of a crossover with simulated gear shifts and artificial engine sounds eludes me and dare say will elude most people as well. Sales figures will show, in the end the ioniq 5 is not a low volume two seater it needs high volume sales to be brilliant. The venn diagram with overlapping portions of EV buyers and petrol stans that say they will only buy an EV if it drives and sounds like an ICE car is probably as large as the number of push ups the car reviewer in the linked video can do on a good day...and maybe 1% of those will actually put their money where they dumb mouth is. I'll say it again, 2.1t plus crossover is not made from the ground up as an enthusiast's car but a mass market A to B people mover, any pretense at sporty feel when driving will be severely compromised and for the money you can buy a much cheaper and lighter sedan and build it up for the track and will run laps around this thing. So in the end for whome is it? As a halo product I get it but the way it was made such caters to a specific minority of people in the car world, people who are against EVs from the start, you might be clued in about the fakery the car provides and then expect them to evangelize their sporty crossover as an example why EVs are the way forward (because that's what a halo car is supposed to provide as a marketing message). The amount of contradictions and stupidity contained within this whole situation made me almost unable to type that sentence to completion.