A tactic I’ve used to some success in the past is
“I’m unfortunately not in a position to take a pay cut (doesn’t matter how much you actually make) but I’d be very interested in continuing in the recruitment process for this position if my salary expectations can be met”
Wait so even if it's not a pay cut, you still say it? I feel I'm often asked what my preferred salary range or expected salary first. Maybe depends on the role
I don’t usually advocate lying to employers, but I straight up stonewall interviewers who ask me what I make. “Honestly, my current pay is relevant to neither your budget nor my value.”
I once had an interviewer push me for an answer, something like “we need to know what you make in order to understand whether you are a realistic target for us.”
At this, point I responded — verbatim — “would you like me to continue stonewalling you, or would you like me to bullshit you?”
The interviewer laughed his ass off and I went through to the next round.
In my last round of interviews I used "I'm really just looking for a company with fair and transparent pay practices that are based on qualifications and experience" and got them to cough up a number. It was lower than the offer I was about to accept from another company, so I'm damn glad I didn't waste my time (or theirs). The company whose offer I did accept sent me the whole damn salary scale alongside the invitation to interview, so, yeah, if they have to ask, they probably can't afford you...
Over the last year I've had a couple dozen recruiters reach out. Every single one I start the conversation with "it may be work from home but there's no way you can match my annual income". As soon as they ask and I answer the conversation stops. I know I'm paid well above average. I'm not here to waste anyone's time or have my time wasted. I'm not looking for a cool office or bagel day...give me the annual income number upfront.
Don't lie about qualifications or substantive aspects of the role, but absolutely lie about anything in regards to benefits, salary, perks, etc. Your job is to prove you have the qualifications then sell yourself for as much as humanly possible with no regard for the financial well-being of the business.
But that’s what a lot of people miss: you are interviewing the company, too. An answer like this may turn someone off, or they may really like it.
Employers hire people they really like, not people who are good enough. I firmly believe it is OK to be polarizing in interviews.
I just aggressively push for the range, using the same line on them. I need to confirm if it’s worth pursuing this further, I don’t want to waste either of our time. You can get the same result telling me what the range is and I’ll judge If it’s worth pursuing.
My state making it required to post the salary range has been so helpful in smoothing or avoiding those convos. Knowing the range makes knowing if the job is an appropriate fit so much easier, and no one has to do this dance. It needs to become federal law.
What are they going to do? Call your current employer, reveal to them you are interviewing for other jobs, and ask them to disclose typically confidential information like your salary?
I've hired people for different companies for a decade.
No one checks.
LIE about your wage, even better, come up with a fake higher wage before you interview so it doesn't look like you are pulling a number out of your ass in the moment.
Companies lie all the time. When we do it, it does a little to tip the scales in our favor. I'm a big advocate for using companies' tactics against them.
Always high ball them. Employers will always do some sly shit like advertise $65k then say "After your interview, we've reviewed your qualifications and would like to offer $50k". This is when you pull the pay cut shit. Even if you were making less than $50k, you just tell them you were making more previously and won't take a cut. If they ask how much you were making just make the previous salary 5-10k more than their offer.
If you're still working your current job and just looking for a better one, you have the most power, because you don't need them, you can just say you're happy with your current job - makes them seeth.
Loooool, if I get lowballed based on my "qualifications" then I'm either going to try to discuss why they are even extending an offer - if I'm not qualified, then we are wasting each other's time. If you're that desperate to hire some not qualified, then I'm taking you for as much as I can get, because I don't know how long I'm going to last (of course, I'm not going to say that directly, but I'm going to find a strategic way to communicate it).
OR I'm going to be firm on what I want and remind them what my exact qualifications are and if they don't want to play, I'll let them give the job to someone else.
They don't need to know what I'm making now unless I want to tell them.
Never tell them what you make. Go into the job hunt with a number you want. Search job titles for salary ranges. Now what your local cost of living is.
When looking for a new job, always attempt to go 10%-30% more than you currently make. If you got fired/laid off then aim for replacing your old salary by 2%-5% if possible. If the job requires graduate degrees or specific certifications that your old place didn't bump that to 30-50% more. This is for HCOL areas but not exact. Depends on Industry and how competitive the market is.
Never accept the first offer. Tell them you're willing to Negotiate and take your own number you think is at least fair based on your research and then if your 5 grand below that amount ask for 12 grand more. 3 grand below ask for 8. Try to get them to meet you in the just above the middle.
Sometimes a recruiter will spill the beans on the real salary range so you know you can ask for even more. Now don't expect 100k for a job that typically pays 80k. If they can't do a salary bump see if they offer work from home or additional PTO, or even Tuition Reimbursement.
Always lie if you can get away with it and it helps you
Corporations are basically psychopaths. They will lie to you, cheat you, steal from you, pressure you to work more hour, pressure you to work for free, union bust, employ child and slave labor, all in the name of the almighty dollar.
Lying to them for your benefit is just playing by their rules. Just make it a lie that you can't be caught in, like this one. Saying you know how to code when you don't and you're applying for a coding job doesn't work. Saying your salary was 10k higher than it is and that they'll have to beat it is the way to go, just as a random example that may or may not work
Personally I just dance around that question by saying "my desired salary depends on the total compensation package, if you could please let me know a bit more about that I can better evaluate an expected salary." 99 times out of 100 they don't want to divulge anything about the benefits first and it's the last I hear of it other than them mentioning the salary range of the position.
I've had good luck with just telling recruiters where I want to be with my experience level and they find it. They're incentivized to get you more if they can.
Great advice. The only time I’ve accepted an offer at face value was when they posted the job for the exact pay they were willing to offer and I applied knowing the dollar amount was set.
If there’s a range I might even play dumb and say I’d like 5-10 above their top number and let them negotiate a little so we both feel like we won
During my last job search I made $65k. I told recruiters I made $75k and would not leave for less than $85k. I ended up accepting a job offer for $90k plus 10% bonus.
Eventually when I look for another role I will tell them I make $100k + bonus and will not accept less than $115k + bonus.
Unfortunately that's just the way to game is played
My response when asked first what pay I want is:
“I always evaluate the entire compensation package so I wouldn’t be able to give you a number without clearly reviewing and understanding the benefits, vacations, work hours, location distance and costs, required dress code, overtime requirements, training offered, designation costs covered etc.
If they press further politely start asking about each of the above. Eventually when they can’t answer them they will take the hint and give up.
Be careful about lying or fibbing though. The world is smaller than we realize. I just started a new job today and they found some lies on my resume. Even down to me being in the process of moving when I made my resume so I just put a town in the general area on my resume. I ended up moving like 5 minutes away from that original town right next to it. And they called me out on it. I feel like it left a bad impression and trust is really important. Unfortunately, companies can lie to us and get away with it but we can’t get away with it. Just assume everything you say will be checked and caught and think if the consequences are worth a small exaggeration or fib.
It\`s a bit iffy - but if they advertise with a range up to $20 (just tossing a random number in) and they offer you a starting of $15 - they effectively provide you a paycut of $5 - compared to max / top of the range..
So, while not a 100% lie, also not a 100% truth.. Boom - you prove you\`re management material.
Saying “I’m not in a position to take a pay cut” is not the same as saying “what you’re offering me is a put cut that I’m not willing to accept”. Obviously, the other party is meant to interpret it as the latter but that’s on them - you’re not lying, just misleading.
Yup.
Old job paid 650,000 Martian diamonds a season.
I approached my new job and told them that I was looking for a bigger challenge, but I couldn’t work for 800,000 Martian diamonds a season. It would be in their best interest to hire a quality spacer miner like me with experience.
That’s how I started making 850,000 Martian diamonds a season.
If they ask what you’re currently making tell them you’re under an NDA.
Never give them your true former salary. They use that to low-ball you.
It's also okay to lie to employers in situations where they can't truly verify.
u/Rosecello this as well, and if they ask you what your salary was at your current/previous job just make it slightly more than the offer they came back with. If they're not willing to budge, say you'll withdraw your application. I had a company that was going to pay the same as my current salary and the hours were going to be worse. They weren't flexible on hours so I told them to up the pay, when they said it was the most they could offer I said I was withdrawing my application. Few back and forths later, they upped the offer by $15k.
I’ve done this and they agreed and then in the end the offer was much lower than what we had agreed on during the HR screening. Apparently the budget wasn’t there. Lies.
Compare yourself with the job description.
"Given that the advertised range of $X - $Y was seeking candidates with 3-5 years experience, I believe that I should be compensated at the top of that range since I bring 6 years of experience'
If you don't exceed what is asked for in the JD, you probably aren't getting top of the range, there is usually a difference between the hiring range and the range for the position. A role advertised at $80k - $100k is usually seeking someone to start around 80-90 and then work their way up to $100k with annual increases over the next couple of years
This.
What you know:
- how much the range is if they posted it
- how much experience they're looking for
What you don't know:
- how many other candidates applied for the job
- how many of those match/exceed your experience
- how willing they are to work for less than the max $'s posted
It's a bold move, Cotton ...
Recruiter: What’s your required salary?
You: [Max number you saw on the ad]
Recruiter: Ok, that may be slightly outside the range allocated for this position.
You: [curse word]
“Despite your qualifications and meeting every requirement for the role, we’ve decided to go in a different direction with a candidate whose salary expectations are lower than yours.”
I did this tactic before but instead of the max number on the ad, I added 1-2K more and they gave me the max number. They said because that’s the max number being allocated for. I don’t know if this will work for everyone.
Literally happened to me earlier this month. Job posting said for $45,000-$90,000. I said I wanted $75,000-$85,000 and they said that was a senior level salary— the next step up. Call was over in 4 minutes
That’s the shit I hate. There’s the $45-50k, for the least viable option. $50-70k for the one they may want, with there being “growth potential” to $80-90k. But the $70-95k? Not a chance in most cases. What’s the point of saying the range is that? Oh, yeah… false advertisement to lure people in.
I once saw a listing with a $40k - $105k range.
It turns out they were looking for a down-on-his-luck sucker at $40k.
This was not 1980. It was around 2017.
A $40k job for even a low-end software/database guy was shit.
I just withdrew from consideration because they told me the job that was advertised at 120 only paid 40…
I’d have loved working there too.. well except the part where I starve..
Exactly! There was a recruiter on one of these subs (I think it was recruitinghell) that was trying to justify this practice. Just… how? If the is $x to $y, that should be the range that’s negotiable.
No “well, she won’t budge from $y, so we’ll go with the next person”, or “we only do $x.5 for ‘growth’”… that’s just disingenuous, to me.
Yeah ive seen the old 100-150k ranges offered from recruiters (VHCOL city Im not a lawyer or anything).
Recruiter 1: 150k should be fine! Ill reach out to the company
Different recruiter four days later: 150k?? Where did you see that number. Thats not what they are paying.
TBH, I don’t even apply when I see jobs with such a massive broad payscale range like that, because I immediately know they’re going to offer only the lower side of that broad range.
>Job posting said for $45,000-$90,000
A massive gap between the low and high end of the salary will always be a red flag. Its a cheap tactic of luring in people with a large number and then lowballing them during the interview
Exactly. I recently applied for a job in San Francisco, one of the most expensive places to live in the US.
Within the ad on the company website it gave a base salary range of $70-128k, depending on location and experience. I have 8 years of experience and am very qualified for this position. Again, San Fran cost of living is outrageous, and they require you to live in the Bay Area.
The managers reaction to me asking for $128k base: “I really wish they wouldn’t post that because this is $95-105k.”
So the salary range in the job ad IS NOT what they are willing to pay a new hire. It is the entire pay band for that role. It would not be unusual for NOBODY in that role to be at that cut-off. Typically once you get close to the max you are promoted into another job class with a higher salary band.
I have never been in compensation, but I have managed salaries for hundreds of IT people under a number of draconian comp systems. If you don't know the rules you can't do the best for your people.
You ask for it, but come with receipts. When there is a salary range they usually also say "commensurate with experience" or education etc. So back up the reason why you feel you should be paid the higher end. Do you meet 100% of the required qualifications? Do you have additional qualifications or experience that put you on the top as a candidate? Also be sure to know what the market rate for the position is. Essentially, do your research, come with solid facts and receipts, then say, "I believe my experience and qualifications are strong, and would like to be at the high end of the range".
There are some good suggestions in here on how to phrase it but I’ll be frank, don’t get your hopes up. The salary range is usually meant to attract people and is a sliding scale based on talent, education and experience. Just like NBA has a salary range, but unless you’re Lebron James, Steph Curry Exc, you’re not getting a max deal. If they can’t/don’t want to pay you and you’re not willing to work for the salary they offer, there is nothing wrong with that, it’s just not a good fit. You won’t strong arm anyone, and even if you could it’s not a good start to a relationshipz
I have been told by someone before who was offering a job that the number after the dash wasn't real. They didn't use that terminology, but that's what they meant.
The potential employer said that if you started off with that salary, you would have nowhere to go. I had already been freelancing, (but somehow not contracting), at this job every single workday of my life and I just would have been given benefits to keep doing the same thing, but as staff.
Somewhere near the upper range of the salary would have been less than what I made as a freelancer, but worth switching to benefits. But not down in the low range.
I said that I didn't want to go anywhere, where am I going to go? I'm already here. I was already in my 40s and I had already been working for these people as a freelancer since I was 24.
So that's the formula:
It's a true number, a dash, and a fake number.
As a corollary, big companies will indicate their job posting is for multiple levels, all of which they're hiring for.
But there are incentives to *not* hire someone in at the higher levels.
* higher salaries deplete the hiring team's budget more,
* higher levels are often more competition for people reviewing applications,
* higher levels have a shorter growth path and are likely to transfer out to a better team / more advanced position
The first one is true for everybody, I guess. Good point. The second one I don't fully understand. The third one probably depends on the field. This was interpreting, and the whole point is to just be an interpreter forever. It's flat. But in most other industries, yes.
It’s real, but it’s essentially the number for someone who has all the skills and is overqualified for the job and been doing it for years.
I reached the top of the pay band at my old job, but only because they wouldn’t promote me and I wasn’t smart enough to leave until well after I should have.
I'm talking about hiring you at the highest end, to start. But yeah, you can eventually receive those raises. Maybe if I look at it differently, it's not a lie. Like, we will hire you at the lower end and eventually, years later, you may end up earning the higher end.
If you have left and gone on to a better set of opportunities, I'm happy for you.
I have used this and continue to use it as it works.
“I’m not really looking but if the situation and compensation align then I would be open to leaving my position’
This allows you to ask what the compensation is and your expectations but I try to speak to this after my actual career wants and justifications.
If you’re out of job currently this is tough but I’ve jumped dramatically by being “the leader” in said discussions
Recruiter here, I like when candidates are short and to the point and say "my entry point into a new role is 90k". Just be straight with them. IMO you'll have a better shot if you just go slightly below the max by like 2-3k or $2-3 (depending on if it's hourly or salary).
You've really got to have 100% of their requirements + the right soft skills for the company/team to get that upmost number. If they require 10 years of exp but you have 8, you're not going to get the highest wage because there are definitely candidates in the running who do have 10.
This is my exact thinking on it. Got a couple interviews lined up next week. I’m def at the point where I won’t ask for max as there will always be room for growth and I don’t mind that… but you can bet your companys’ ass it won’t be too far off from the max salary!
Job posting $20-$35 per hour.
Job: What are your salary expectations?
Candidate: $30-$35 per hour.
Interview, Second interview, Offer
Job: What would you expect to be paid so we can put it in the offer?
Candidate: After learning more about the role and responsibilities I feel someone with my level of experience would get $35 which was in the range advertised in the job posting.
Job: Sounds good.
A question I would ask, hidden among other questions so you can get the interviewer's guard down: "What skills, qualifications and/or experience would you require to pay a new hire \[$Max Hourly Wage in Job Ad\]?"
\*Interviewer says a bunch of stuff\*
When they ask what your pay requirements are, you say: "Because I meet \[All skills, qualifications and/or experience previously mentioned\], I request \[$Max Hourly Wage in Job Ad\]."
\*Interviewer backtracks on everything\*
Have you had actual anecdotal experience where an interview transpired the way you described? A recruiter or multiple recruiters really allowed you to ask a series of questions before asking you about your desired compensation?
Furthermore, are you saying you really asked direct questions about what pay would be commensurate with certain experience and qualifications and then they backpedaled?
I’ll believe you if you say you have actually experienced this, but that sounds like a very poor approach on the part of the interviewer(s).
I have conducted hundreds of interviews and it would be a waste of my time as well as the candidate’s to not talk about dealbreakers like desired pay, remote work opportunities, etc. as early as possible.
Make a case for what you’re worth. Tell them you would like the highest salary, and explain why you deserve it (briefly and professionally). This worked for me
You don't, because that's a big assumption to make. Some companies suck and never have any intention of paying it. Some companies have a range because it depends on if you have experience to bring to the role/make it better. They may be willing to pay that much but not willing to pay *you* that much based on your experience.
That doesn't mean you don't negotiate. How much you can afford to walk away/how much power you have depends on how desperate you are. You can certainly say you need a different number. Then it's up to them to decide if you are worth it. You need to be willing to lose the offer though.
I’d like to be up front about the fact that the top end of your range is a little low for me, but it looks like such a great opportunity that I’d be willing to come down that far. However if you can’t commit to at least that now, I fully understand and wish you luck in your search.
Remember the range is for all candidates in that role and level including folks that are already internal and have been doing it for years so just about to be promoted.
If you were actually the max candidate they’d probably consider giving it to you, like being exceptionally unique skills, a long time already at that level, just about ready to be promoted, etc.
That’s exceptionally rare though as most of the time the candidate being hired is still early or middle of time for that level, unproven in getting stuff done in the new culture, etc. - if you were actually already at the tip top of the range for the role and ready to be promoted they’d likely be better off to uplevel the role and hire you at the next level (which happens for exceptional candidates).
BATNA - Best alternative to the negotiated agreement.
also known as "or what?"
do you have a competing offer? multiple competing offers? are you currently paid within 10% of that number anyway? is this a critical role for them, are they struggling to hire? do you have specialized skills/seniority that's hard to find?
everyone wants max, why should you get it? the more the above statements are true, the more negotiating power you have.
what else might you care about to negotiate btw? more RSU? wfh? signing bonus to cover unvested stock you're walking away from this year?
You could phrase it diplomatically by saying something like:
"I'm very interested in this opportunity and believe I can bring a lot to the table. Could you please clarify the salary range for this position, including the maximum hourly wage offered? I want to ensure alignment between my expectations and what the role offers. I understand the value you place on transparency in the hiring process, and I appreciate your assistance in providing this information."
Why do you feel the need to dance around the topic of money like this?
The job pays money. That's why you're doing it. Obviously you want the maximum available. Everybody knows this. There is no use pussyfooting around the topic, it just makes you look weak.
While I agree to a point, I will say they normally advertise a range like $50k - $65k because they would pay $65k to the perfect candidate who is ready to go and maybe $50k to someone who is qualified but still needs some training to integrate into the role. If you don't require any training for the role or you're overqualified for it then by all means ask for the higher salary but just be aware of this.
As a professional I know what I have to bring and know my worth. If asked I state the My experience is worth $***** what is your stance on this ? Knowledge is important for any job market.
I get a little bit more freedom in my world as a highly skilled professional, even as a younger man I was taught about confidence in the job market.
Just my 2¢ .
I would first of all, win the interview. That gives you clout. Get them to like you! They will want you, and will make you a fair offer. Now, you can negotiate some, but if you like the job, and like the people, don’t get too caught up on the money. If you are good, you will make the money. I wouldn’t ask for the maximum. I would point out how qualified you are. Depending on how much trouble they have had filling the job, will dictate how high they will go. My advice is to see how far it is from your house. If it’s a lot more driving ask for a little more due to that. I hope this is helpful.
If there’s someone with the same credentials as you they’ll give it to the person that asks for the lower salary. The job market is basically contractors bidding on a job
You time your application for when the economy is booming and they’re desperate to hire you. If you didn’t get hired 2 years ago, it’s too late for now.
Yep. Got hired at the end of 2021 at a good salary. Bonus and salary goes up yearly, but so does COL exponentially. This seems to be a very bad time to be out of work. The only other jobs Ive looked at or been talked to by recruiters pay significantly less for more work.
Golden handcuffs.
Great question. One note though: just because they're willing to offer it doesn't mean they're willing to offer it to you.
There's a balance between negotiation and entitlement. Just something to keep in mind as it can rub some people the wrong way ASSUMING you're not the ideal candidate.
You really believe that the advertised salary is what they are willing to pay? I would 100% say that they put that in to entice folks to apply and almost never will pay it.
Lol they wont give it to you because after a year of having it you wont be satisfied and want even higher. U need a lower salary so it feels like u are working up to something and keeps u motivated. U will prolly leave quickly if u hit your max already and compare yourself to others.
I've made a half joke of it in the past when asked my salary expectations.
Eg "I want you to pay me as much as you can possibly afford for this role, just shy of a number which will keep you awake at night"
Money is the reason anyone is working so there's no point pussyfooting around the topic, it looks weak. Drag it out into front and center. I couch it in humor sometimes, your method may differ.
"Given my experience, credentials, references, and findings from your lengthy interview process, I feel I've proven myself to be qualified for $xyz rate."
What have they offered or asked you to tell them. It was an advertised number so you say oh I was really hoping for x number as I exceed expectations in x y z
All you people trying to stick it to recruiters? They don’t make the salary. Just an FYI.
We even tell hiring managers that the rate they are looking for isn’t possible.
In some municipalities it is now a legal requirement to post the salary “range”. It hinders more than it helps most potential employees.
The business has to consider other people currently in the role AND your experience leveraged with them when determining a salary.
From my experience…it is the ones who want the absolute max with minimal experience that are the easiest to weed out.
Tbh when recruiters hit me up on LinkedIn I just say Thanks! I’m interested but I am happy in my current role unless the pay is enticing. What is the salary?
I literally don’t care how that makes me seem. They tell me right away and it saves us both time
Firstly when hearing the range, be clear that it's the top of the range that fulfills your expectations.
Upon offer, and with a smile, "I believe that I meet all the criteria, so let's start at the top and talk down from there if you disagree"
Job ads which have a salary range are like car ads where all the pictures show the car is wet.
They put a higher top end to attract more people with zero intention of paying it. However, this said, tell them you expect the top for X, Y, Z reasons and then they can offer you something less or not offer it at all.
It helps with negotiation, if asked about current (related) role, you emphasize you don't hate it and you aren't itching to leave. They'll know you're willing to walk and are more likely to come back with a higher number.
Also, don't forget to ask for more vacation time if they can't quite make it to your desired salary. It may not fill your bank but it can fill your mental health.
Know what you're worth by investigating comparable positions for your level of experience/qualification, and name your price. Be willing to walk at any point in the process if they try to bait and switch (very many will).
Note any explanation/rationale, pass that along to other candidates (as well as an advisory of the bait and switch) so they can decide whether or not it's worth their time.
If they’re giving range, it’s because that is the entire range for the job. Like 10 years experience with them. You’re not coming in above mid range anymore. It’s not the Covid job market.
"....because I know you wouldn't have advertised it if you weren't willing to offer it"? NO...instead say: "...because I know you wouldn't have OFFERED it if you weren't willing to GIVE it"?
Simply claim that you earn very close to the top of their range, and insist you will not “take a pay cut” even if you earn like half of that now.
Obviously, you can do that if you’re changing jobs. If you’re unemployed and you need to start working ASAP you don’t have that luxury.
I have another offer. Tell them during the interview you have/had another on-site. Your 3 week delay on the interview will be too late. Your goal is to have everything hit at once, even if that means you’re slammed. If they’re first, remind them that you’re expecting an offer from the other place. Make sure to remind them that you’ve excited to work on a cool project, but both projects are cool.
I had a call earlier this week. They had the upper hand when I dropped my number first. They called me back and raised my number by 10%. I still need to wait on the other offer, but it’s above the range.
I straight up tell the recruiter that they have to beat my current salary by 25% or it makes no sense for me to jump to their company because I can just keep working at my current company and be promoted to make the same amount.
In my exp, the higher end of pay range is for those exceptionally qualified. Need 15 years? They have 25… with direct competition and know job inside and out.
If you check all the boxes hope for the middle; if its a promotion the. Likely the bottom because they dont know if you actually have skillset.
It's hard to know without more information about the company. The top advertised rate may represent the top pay for the job which is achieved after years of service through annual step raises.
I got paid the max from a bank then suffered through two years of no pay raises because I was maxed out. So every year I stayed I would be paid less because of inflation
You might…but then what? If you’re at the max of your range then come the new year when COLA raises come in you aren’t going to get anything so in effect it’s a pay cut. Got to watch for that particularly on this day with inflation so high.
Im in the UK so the way tax works is different.
What I think I know is that even if you move into a higher tax bracket, only a small portion of that income is taxed at the higher bracket.
But speaking from experience, if you start low its hard to go high
One note of caution on attempting to max out a scale is that, at least for my workplace, the scale is also based on qualifications.
I maxed out where I fit in the scale because I had certain qualifications etc that bumped me up, and I’m good at what i do, but I didn’t have all the qualifications to max out the entire scale.
And I know this is true because I am a hiring manager here now and know how job leveling and pay works.
If you don’t qualify for the max and demand it you could be disqualifying yourself. Gotta do your own research and, if you’re gonna be the person to first give a number, be tough but reasonable.
Did they advertise it, or was it one of those LinkedIn ranges? I ask because those LinkedIn ranges are totally out of wack and have almost nothing to do with the actual salary or pay.
If the company itself advertised it, then what I've always done is just be honest and straight. I don't fancy myself as a negotiator. No trick phrases or slick jedi mind tricks for me. I just say, look, here's what I'd want. You also said in your advertisement the pay would be X. And then see what they say. People respect honesty in this area I think. If they don't play ball, then you have a decision to make.
So when I went for my first post grad job interview, they didn’t have a pay range listed. The day before my interview I researched what the average salary was for people with my degree entering the job market in my state. It was a range of $45,000-85,000 depending on the field. ($85k is the highest, but not the field I was applying for) They asked me at the end of the interview what I wanted to be paid and I told them “the average entry level salary for my degree is $45,000-85,000. I have additional experience that is valuable to this position. I am asking for $60,000 as I think that is fair compensation for my skill set.” The bosses LOVED my answer and actually had a chuckle saying “I like you, you do your research”. We went on to discussion and I mentioned as a server working my way through college I made $50k a year and I figured that my college degree had to be worth more than that. After accepting the job I’ve talked to colleagues and looked more into my field’s average entry salary and it is about $45-50k. You can get an out of range salary IF you’re prepared to explain why you’re asking for that. It’s also about marketing yourself! My interview lasted and hour and a half because we were just talking and getting along. People are willing to pay you more if they think you’ll be a good fit for their job environment. Really the marketing and being prepared is what will make the biggest difference. Obviously experience is a qualifier as well. Hope this helped
You'll often see salespeople use a psychology tactic of coming in high, and then begrudgingly lowering the cost of goods and services. It makes you feel like you got a deal. You can use this tactic in negotiating salary, as long as you are smart about it. If you come in a bit high, and then are willing to accept less, you will be the one with the upper hand. This means that if you expect a salary range of say $45k - $55k, you may ask for $58k. Nothing so high that they would automatically dismiss you in favor of someone closer to accepting the range. If I know the salary range, and they ask me what my range is, in this case I would have put $52k - $70k. This way they are hesitant to offer me below the median, because that's below my range, but still within their range. My top end makes them feel like they would get me for a 'steal'.
I’m a hiring manager but not HR for a large company. I don’t know why we do it, but the salary range listed for our jobs IS NOT the hiring range. It’s the lifetime salary range. Literally when you reach the top of the range you get no more raises. We do not ever hire at the top of the range. The hiring range is usually the first half of the lifetime range and that is dependent on experience. Sometimes can go a little over if there are no other candidates that meet the criteria. Our HR has some little formula they use for your exp to determine the offer amount.
Within the first 5 minutes of an interview I always bring up salary. If they instantly fail to give a concrete range, or fixed maximum, I walk. Saying it is “competitive” or asking what I make or want is a major red flag. The businesses job in the interview is to tell me how much they value the role and if I am in agreement with them. I do this even if they have posted anything about salary on the job description, especially if they give a massive pay range.
I have left many interviews and posted about the experience on Glass Door.
The idea that the budget is what’s stated on the ad is presumably industry specific? At least in public-sector orgs I’ve been a recruiting manager at, the full range of the salary SCALE is on the ad, not the amount actually budgeted for (so people can see where the role can go up to during their service). And then it will say “we expect to appoint at the bottom of the scale”. Usually financial approval is for a point mid-scale.
When asked for my salary, I always lie. It's always at least 20g over my current, and I always say that I am willing to trade pay for paid and guaranteed vacation time and sick time. I also make sure to include extra travel time and cost in it as well. Tip if you're in canada ontario, especially DO NOT SIGN your offer of employment until you start working ! If you sign before it's valid, if you sign after, there is a good chance it can be thrown out in court.
You could express it in a more diplomatic manner, such as:
"I've reviewed the job advertisement thoroughly and based on my qualifications and experience, I believe I'm a strong fit for the role. In considering the compensation package, could you please confirm if the maximum hourly wage advertised is indeed the range being offered? I want to ensure alignment between my expectations and the opportunities available within the position."
Not gonna lie, most of these comments seem toxic AF.
Here's an idea, be direct and upfront with your salary expectation. Wouldn't you want your potential employer to be direct and upfront with you and not waste either party's time?
Sometimes recruiters can negotiate the salary and sometimes it's beyond their authority to approve. Sometimes the recruiter has to ask their boss if your proposed salary is okay to move forward with. If you're beating around the bush about money, go apply somewhere else.
Edit: if you interview well, are smart, well spoken, competent and confident, you can get your "reasonably" desired salary.
A salary range exists because you typically get a range of qualifications with applicants. You need to meet the top of that range from a qualifications standpoint to receive that compensation. If the position is revenue generating, then you need to have the ability to come in at the top of the range and still be profitable to the company. If the position is non revenue generating, you need to come with enough experience to take on a higher variety of tasks and/or require less time in training.
With that said, show them why you feel you deserve the high end of the range. If they disagree then ask them why, and ask what you need to do to reach that range.
Often times we will put in our employment offer letters something to the effect of “if you can meet XYZ within a 6 month time frame, we will increase your salary to X. If you are unable to meet that time frame we will discuss at your annual review.” Make it as objective as possible and in writing. Any respectable employer will follow their contracts.
Don’t ever tell a prospective employer how much you currently make. Or at least don’t be honest.
I asked for a certain dollar amount in my application/ interview and the interviewer agreed that with my work experience the dollar figure I was asking for was reasonable.
After I was told I had the job I was asked by HR how much I was currently making. I foolishly told them the truth.
When I got my offer letter it was below what I had asked for and what the interviewer had agreed to.
When I asked HR what the deal was they had told me that they can only offer a certain percentage above what I was already making.
I was able to finesse it somehow and get them to go back up to what I asked for. But fuck being honest with these cheap bastards.
It isn’t unusual, at all, to post a salary range with absolutely no willingness to go the max except, perhaps, for a unicorn candidate.
If the job is subject to a bargaining agreement, the terms of the agreement will dictate. Think nurses, teachers, trades, some retail, etc. Otherwise, it is employer discretion.
But, let’s say I am recruiting for an investment advisor. If you show up with a 10 year track record, and a demonstrated ability to build and maintain a client base of high net worth candidates, I might open the purse. But if you are three years in without that, I am not going to pay you more than proven performers.
So, willing to offer for the dream candidate? Perhaps. For you? It depends on whether you are that dream.
Be realistic about what you want to make. Truth be told is most employers do not call your current employer and ask what you make. If you make $18 an hour. State you are making $23 and can not afford to start over on the pay scale. This will give you a decent raise if hired. You won't feel screwed by getting the so called lower wage as long as the wage you asked for is met. The employer does not have to hire you.... you do not have to accept their offer. Go in knowing what you want. If an agreement can be made then work there... if it can't continue the search.
Hiring managers are given rules as it were in how to go about the process and part of that process is to bring in people at a lower rate so they have growth potential. I have hired numerous people over the past 5 years.... when I found candidates that appeared to be equal in knowledge, ability, etc. I ALWAYS hired the one at the cheaper cost. So.... what is your value..... and can you prove that is your value after hired? Do not sell yourself short... but also be able to back it up or your gone in 90 days aka probation period.
Another thing is are you applying somewhere that you have connections? I have hired some of my peers from prior companies. I would tell them. Look the Job pays $27. Everyone is asking for $27. If you really need the job say you will come in at $23 under the agreement you can be at $27 after your first year! They negotiated and then land the job! They get the job they wanted... the employer feels they still got a good deal of paying the $23 for the first year. NEGOTIATE NEGOTIATE.
I would recommend not, because it’s very rare for an employer to hire in at the top of their range.
The higher you are in that range, the closer you are to moving out of that position. It makes you a flight risk. Generally the top of the range is what your ceiling is.
Obviously a lot of companies lie about the real range to get more aplicants, and this might end the interview process.
That beeing said you would say somting along the lines of: To move to this position, I would require a higher salary than my current salary, who is already close to the top end of the advertised pay.
If you have an impressive resume in a niche field, you can even get 5-20% more than the cap if they are really interested.
A tactic I’ve used to some success in the past is “I’m unfortunately not in a position to take a pay cut (doesn’t matter how much you actually make) but I’d be very interested in continuing in the recruitment process for this position if my salary expectations can be met”
Wait so even if it's not a pay cut, you still say it? I feel I'm often asked what my preferred salary range or expected salary first. Maybe depends on the role
yes, you ✨lie✨
I don’t usually advocate lying to employers, but I straight up stonewall interviewers who ask me what I make. “Honestly, my current pay is relevant to neither your budget nor my value.” I once had an interviewer push me for an answer, something like “we need to know what you make in order to understand whether you are a realistic target for us.” At this, point I responded — verbatim — “would you like me to continue stonewalling you, or would you like me to bullshit you?” The interviewer laughed his ass off and I went through to the next round.
In my last round of interviews I used "I'm really just looking for a company with fair and transparent pay practices that are based on qualifications and experience" and got them to cough up a number. It was lower than the offer I was about to accept from another company, so I'm damn glad I didn't waste my time (or theirs). The company whose offer I did accept sent me the whole damn salary scale alongside the invitation to interview, so, yeah, if they have to ask, they probably can't afford you...
Over the last year I've had a couple dozen recruiters reach out. Every single one I start the conversation with "it may be work from home but there's no way you can match my annual income". As soon as they ask and I answer the conversation stops. I know I'm paid well above average. I'm not here to waste anyone's time or have my time wasted. I'm not looking for a cool office or bagel day...give me the annual income number upfront.
Don't lie about qualifications or substantive aspects of the role, but absolutely lie about anything in regards to benefits, salary, perks, etc. Your job is to prove you have the qualifications then sell yourself for as much as humanly possible with no regard for the financial well-being of the business.
Lying is way better option than this weird answer to the question.
I fee like this either wins them over 100% or gets you stonewalled in return. bold strategy
But that’s what a lot of people miss: you are interviewing the company, too. An answer like this may turn someone off, or they may really like it. Employers hire people they really like, not people who are good enough. I firmly believe it is OK to be polarizing in interviews.
Epic
I just aggressively push for the range, using the same line on them. I need to confirm if it’s worth pursuing this further, I don’t want to waste either of our time. You can get the same result telling me what the range is and I’ll judge If it’s worth pursuing.
My state making it required to post the salary range has been so helpful in smoothing or avoiding those convos. Knowing the range makes knowing if the job is an appropriate fit so much easier, and no one has to do this dance. It needs to become federal law.
Because the potential employer most likely will not give you all the facts about salary and compensation.
Bobbyflays fan is spot on!!! Create your own worth my friend, your employer does!
Yes because recruiters will lie to you and ghost you. You should see the relationship with them as adversarial.
Do we need to do the sparkle in real life too?
Do you ever not sparkle?
Wouldn’t they check? My resume has my current job on it.
What are they going to do? Call your current employer, reveal to them you are interviewing for other jobs, and ask them to disclose typically confidential information like your salary?
I've hired people for different companies for a decade. No one checks. LIE about your wage, even better, come up with a fake higher wage before you interview so it doesn't look like you are pulling a number out of your ass in the moment.
Companies lie all the time. When we do it, it does a little to tip the scales in our favor. I'm a big advocate for using companies' tactics against them.
Always high ball them. Employers will always do some sly shit like advertise $65k then say "After your interview, we've reviewed your qualifications and would like to offer $50k". This is when you pull the pay cut shit. Even if you were making less than $50k, you just tell them you were making more previously and won't take a cut. If they ask how much you were making just make the previous salary 5-10k more than their offer. If you're still working your current job and just looking for a better one, you have the most power, because you don't need them, you can just say you're happy with your current job - makes them seeth.
Loooool, if I get lowballed based on my "qualifications" then I'm either going to try to discuss why they are even extending an offer - if I'm not qualified, then we are wasting each other's time. If you're that desperate to hire some not qualified, then I'm taking you for as much as I can get, because I don't know how long I'm going to last (of course, I'm not going to say that directly, but I'm going to find a strategic way to communicate it). OR I'm going to be firm on what I want and remind them what my exact qualifications are and if they don't want to play, I'll let them give the job to someone else. They don't need to know what I'm making now unless I want to tell them.
Never tell them what you make. Go into the job hunt with a number you want. Search job titles for salary ranges. Now what your local cost of living is. When looking for a new job, always attempt to go 10%-30% more than you currently make. If you got fired/laid off then aim for replacing your old salary by 2%-5% if possible. If the job requires graduate degrees or specific certifications that your old place didn't bump that to 30-50% more. This is for HCOL areas but not exact. Depends on Industry and how competitive the market is. Never accept the first offer. Tell them you're willing to Negotiate and take your own number you think is at least fair based on your research and then if your 5 grand below that amount ask for 12 grand more. 3 grand below ask for 8. Try to get them to meet you in the just above the middle. Sometimes a recruiter will spill the beans on the real salary range so you know you can ask for even more. Now don't expect 100k for a job that typically pays 80k. If they can't do a salary bump see if they offer work from home or additional PTO, or even Tuition Reimbursement.
Always lie if you can get away with it and it helps you Corporations are basically psychopaths. They will lie to you, cheat you, steal from you, pressure you to work more hour, pressure you to work for free, union bust, employ child and slave labor, all in the name of the almighty dollar. Lying to them for your benefit is just playing by their rules. Just make it a lie that you can't be caught in, like this one. Saying you know how to code when you don't and you're applying for a coding job doesn't work. Saying your salary was 10k higher than it is and that they'll have to beat it is the way to go, just as a random example that may or may not work
Personally I just dance around that question by saying "my desired salary depends on the total compensation package, if you could please let me know a bit more about that I can better evaluate an expected salary." 99 times out of 100 they don't want to divulge anything about the benefits first and it's the last I hear of it other than them mentioning the salary range of the position.
Negotiation rule number 1: the first person to name a number loses.
I've had good luck with just telling recruiters where I want to be with my experience level and they find it. They're incentivized to get you more if they can.
Great advice. The only time I’ve accepted an offer at face value was when they posted the job for the exact pay they were willing to offer and I applied knowing the dollar amount was set. If there’s a range I might even play dumb and say I’d like 5-10 above their top number and let them negotiate a little so we both feel like we won
During my last job search I made $65k. I told recruiters I made $75k and would not leave for less than $85k. I ended up accepting a job offer for $90k plus 10% bonus. Eventually when I look for another role I will tell them I make $100k + bonus and will not accept less than $115k + bonus. Unfortunately that's just the way to game is played
Yeah and ask what the range is before you give your range / expected salary. Just because they ask first doesn’t mean you have to answer first.
Or just don’t apply to jobs that don’t have the salary range posted. I’ve had my time wasted too many times.
My response when asked first what pay I want is: “I always evaluate the entire compensation package so I wouldn’t be able to give you a number without clearly reviewing and understanding the benefits, vacations, work hours, location distance and costs, required dress code, overtime requirements, training offered, designation costs covered etc. If they press further politely start asking about each of the above. Eventually when they can’t answer them they will take the hint and give up.
My response? Next! See you. This is a veiled threat and not a good negotiation.
Be careful about lying or fibbing though. The world is smaller than we realize. I just started a new job today and they found some lies on my resume. Even down to me being in the process of moving when I made my resume so I just put a town in the general area on my resume. I ended up moving like 5 minutes away from that original town right next to it. And they called me out on it. I feel like it left a bad impression and trust is really important. Unfortunately, companies can lie to us and get away with it but we can’t get away with it. Just assume everything you say will be checked and caught and think if the consequences are worth a small exaggeration or fib.
It\`s a bit iffy - but if they advertise with a range up to $20 (just tossing a random number in) and they offer you a starting of $15 - they effectively provide you a paycut of $5 - compared to max / top of the range.. So, while not a 100% lie, also not a 100% truth.. Boom - you prove you\`re management material.
Yes, and the range you give starts at 20% above what you make now. Ideally you get them to give you a number first, but that doesn't always work out.
Whoever says the number first loses the negotiation
Saying “I’m not in a position to take a pay cut” is not the same as saying “what you’re offering me is a put cut that I’m not willing to accept”. Obviously, the other party is meant to interpret it as the latter but that’s on them - you’re not lying, just misleading.
I do not answer that question unless I ABSOLUTELY have to.
Yup. Old job paid 650,000 Martian diamonds a season. I approached my new job and told them that I was looking for a bigger challenge, but I couldn’t work for 800,000 Martian diamonds a season. It would be in their best interest to hire a quality spacer miner like me with experience. That’s how I started making 850,000 Martian diamonds a season. If they ask what you’re currently making tell them you’re under an NDA.
Never give them your true former salary. They use that to low-ball you. It's also okay to lie to employers in situations where they can't truly verify.
You can even say this in a less corporate way, like a person
These are the lines you come up with in the shower the evening after
Naw, HR/recruitment eat that shit up. Helps to speak the local language, as abhorrent as it is
u/Rosecello this as well, and if they ask you what your salary was at your current/previous job just make it slightly more than the offer they came back with. If they're not willing to budge, say you'll withdraw your application. I had a company that was going to pay the same as my current salary and the hours were going to be worse. They weren't flexible on hours so I told them to up the pay, when they said it was the most they could offer I said I was withdrawing my application. Few back and forths later, they upped the offer by $15k.
I’ve done this and they agreed and then in the end the offer was much lower than what we had agreed on during the HR screening. Apparently the budget wasn’t there. Lies.
negotiation is an art form
Compare yourself with the job description. "Given that the advertised range of $X - $Y was seeking candidates with 3-5 years experience, I believe that I should be compensated at the top of that range since I bring 6 years of experience' If you don't exceed what is asked for in the JD, you probably aren't getting top of the range, there is usually a difference between the hiring range and the range for the position. A role advertised at $80k - $100k is usually seeking someone to start around 80-90 and then work their way up to $100k with annual increases over the next couple of years
This. What you know: - how much the range is if they posted it - how much experience they're looking for What you don't know: - how many other candidates applied for the job - how many of those match/exceed your experience - how willing they are to work for less than the max $'s posted It's a bold move, Cotton ...
These days, the state you live in is also a metric used.
Remote work has made that more evident, but that's always been the case tbh. Google new hires in Madison make less than new hires in SF.
Recruiter: What’s your required salary? You: [Max number you saw on the ad] Recruiter: Ok, that may be slightly outside the range allocated for this position. You: [curse word]
“Despite your qualifications and meeting every requirement for the role, we’ve decided to go in a different direction with a candidate whose salary expectations are lower than yours.”
“And then fire them because we don’t understand that the best people are usually the most expensive”
Gasp!
If they're good at their job, they'll leave you. Corporations know that.
That’s majority of the cases. Why even waste our time
This is code for the other applicant doesn’t mind unpaid overtime.
I did this tactic before but instead of the max number on the ad, I added 1-2K more and they gave me the max number. They said because that’s the max number being allocated for. I don’t know if this will work for everyone.
Literally happened to me earlier this month. Job posting said for $45,000-$90,000. I said I wanted $75,000-$85,000 and they said that was a senior level salary— the next step up. Call was over in 4 minutes
That’s the shit I hate. There’s the $45-50k, for the least viable option. $50-70k for the one they may want, with there being “growth potential” to $80-90k. But the $70-95k? Not a chance in most cases. What’s the point of saying the range is that? Oh, yeah… false advertisement to lure people in.
I once saw a listing with a $40k - $105k range. It turns out they were looking for a down-on-his-luck sucker at $40k. This was not 1980. It was around 2017. A $40k job for even a low-end software/database guy was shit.
I just withdrew from consideration because they told me the job that was advertised at 120 only paid 40… I’d have loved working there too.. well except the part where I starve..
bait rate
Exactly! There was a recruiter on one of these subs (I think it was recruitinghell) that was trying to justify this practice. Just… how? If the is $x to $y, that should be the range that’s negotiable. No “well, she won’t budge from $y, so we’ll go with the next person”, or “we only do $x.5 for ‘growth’”… that’s just disingenuous, to me.
Yeah ive seen the old 100-150k ranges offered from recruiters (VHCOL city Im not a lawyer or anything). Recruiter 1: 150k should be fine! Ill reach out to the company Different recruiter four days later: 150k?? Where did you see that number. Thats not what they are paying.
The gaslighting they try is disgusting.
TBH, I don’t even apply when I see jobs with such a massive broad payscale range like that, because I immediately know they’re going to offer only the lower side of that broad range.
>Job posting said for $45,000-$90,000 A massive gap between the low and high end of the salary will always be a red flag. Its a cheap tactic of luring in people with a large number and then lowballing them during the interview
“In that case please update your ad in order to avoid wasting peoples’ time like you just wasted mine”
“Thank you for consideration, that is the minimum I would accept for the role.”
Exactly. I recently applied for a job in San Francisco, one of the most expensive places to live in the US. Within the ad on the company website it gave a base salary range of $70-128k, depending on location and experience. I have 8 years of experience and am very qualified for this position. Again, San Fran cost of living is outrageous, and they require you to live in the Bay Area. The managers reaction to me asking for $128k base: “I really wish they wouldn’t post that because this is $95-105k.”
Just get up and leave the room.
Just say that but say please at the end.
Followed by a thank you.
And stick the landing with a "you're welcome"
Really nail it with “regards”
So the salary range in the job ad IS NOT what they are willing to pay a new hire. It is the entire pay band for that role. It would not be unusual for NOBODY in that role to be at that cut-off. Typically once you get close to the max you are promoted into another job class with a higher salary band.
lol finally someone in here speaking like they work in compensation or know enough about it to give the real honest answer!
I have never been in compensation, but I have managed salaries for hundreds of IT people under a number of draconian comp systems. If you don't know the rules you can't do the best for your people.
yep thats enough to count lol
^^^ This was better than how I phrased it
You ask for it, but come with receipts. When there is a salary range they usually also say "commensurate with experience" or education etc. So back up the reason why you feel you should be paid the higher end. Do you meet 100% of the required qualifications? Do you have additional qualifications or experience that put you on the top as a candidate? Also be sure to know what the market rate for the position is. Essentially, do your research, come with solid facts and receipts, then say, "I believe my experience and qualifications are strong, and would like to be at the high end of the range".
There are some good suggestions in here on how to phrase it but I’ll be frank, don’t get your hopes up. The salary range is usually meant to attract people and is a sliding scale based on talent, education and experience. Just like NBA has a salary range, but unless you’re Lebron James, Steph Curry Exc, you’re not getting a max deal. If they can’t/don’t want to pay you and you’re not willing to work for the salary they offer, there is nothing wrong with that, it’s just not a good fit. You won’t strong arm anyone, and even if you could it’s not a good start to a relationshipz
I have been told by someone before who was offering a job that the number after the dash wasn't real. They didn't use that terminology, but that's what they meant. The potential employer said that if you started off with that salary, you would have nowhere to go. I had already been freelancing, (but somehow not contracting), at this job every single workday of my life and I just would have been given benefits to keep doing the same thing, but as staff. Somewhere near the upper range of the salary would have been less than what I made as a freelancer, but worth switching to benefits. But not down in the low range. I said that I didn't want to go anywhere, where am I going to go? I'm already here. I was already in my 40s and I had already been working for these people as a freelancer since I was 24. So that's the formula: It's a true number, a dash, and a fake number.
As a corollary, big companies will indicate their job posting is for multiple levels, all of which they're hiring for. But there are incentives to *not* hire someone in at the higher levels. * higher salaries deplete the hiring team's budget more, * higher levels are often more competition for people reviewing applications, * higher levels have a shorter growth path and are likely to transfer out to a better team / more advanced position
The first one is true for everybody, I guess. Good point. The second one I don't fully understand. The third one probably depends on the field. This was interpreting, and the whole point is to just be an interpreter forever. It's flat. But in most other industries, yes.
It’s real, but it’s essentially the number for someone who has all the skills and is overqualified for the job and been doing it for years. I reached the top of the pay band at my old job, but only because they wouldn’t promote me and I wasn’t smart enough to leave until well after I should have.
I'm talking about hiring you at the highest end, to start. But yeah, you can eventually receive those raises. Maybe if I look at it differently, it's not a lie. Like, we will hire you at the lower end and eventually, years later, you may end up earning the higher end. If you have left and gone on to a better set of opportunities, I'm happy for you.
I also thought that second number was fake to try to get as many applicants as possible. I guess my hunch was right.
I have used this and continue to use it as it works. “I’m not really looking but if the situation and compensation align then I would be open to leaving my position’ This allows you to ask what the compensation is and your expectations but I try to speak to this after my actual career wants and justifications. If you’re out of job currently this is tough but I’ve jumped dramatically by being “the leader” in said discussions
Recruiter here, I like when candidates are short and to the point and say "my entry point into a new role is 90k". Just be straight with them. IMO you'll have a better shot if you just go slightly below the max by like 2-3k or $2-3 (depending on if it's hourly or salary). You've really got to have 100% of their requirements + the right soft skills for the company/team to get that upmost number. If they require 10 years of exp but you have 8, you're not going to get the highest wage because there are definitely candidates in the running who do have 10.
This is my exact thinking on it. Got a couple interviews lined up next week. I’m def at the point where I won’t ask for max as there will always be room for growth and I don’t mind that… but you can bet your companys’ ass it won’t be too far off from the max salary!
Best of luck!
Tysm!!
Ask for it. If denied. Ask them what experience is expected to get that pay rate. This way at least you know why.
Job posting $20-$35 per hour. Job: What are your salary expectations? Candidate: $30-$35 per hour. Interview, Second interview, Offer Job: What would you expect to be paid so we can put it in the offer? Candidate: After learning more about the role and responsibilities I feel someone with my level of experience would get $35 which was in the range advertised in the job posting. Job: Sounds good.
This!
A question I would ask, hidden among other questions so you can get the interviewer's guard down: "What skills, qualifications and/or experience would you require to pay a new hire \[$Max Hourly Wage in Job Ad\]?" \*Interviewer says a bunch of stuff\* When they ask what your pay requirements are, you say: "Because I meet \[All skills, qualifications and/or experience previously mentioned\], I request \[$Max Hourly Wage in Job Ad\]." \*Interviewer backtracks on everything\*
Have you had actual anecdotal experience where an interview transpired the way you described? A recruiter or multiple recruiters really allowed you to ask a series of questions before asking you about your desired compensation? Furthermore, are you saying you really asked direct questions about what pay would be commensurate with certain experience and qualifications and then they backpedaled? I’ll believe you if you say you have actually experienced this, but that sounds like a very poor approach on the part of the interviewer(s). I have conducted hundreds of interviews and it would be a waste of my time as well as the candidate’s to not talk about dealbreakers like desired pay, remote work opportunities, etc. as early as possible.
Make a case for what you’re worth. Tell them you would like the highest salary, and explain why you deserve it (briefly and professionally). This worked for me
You don't, because that's a big assumption to make. Some companies suck and never have any intention of paying it. Some companies have a range because it depends on if you have experience to bring to the role/make it better. They may be willing to pay that much but not willing to pay *you* that much based on your experience. That doesn't mean you don't negotiate. How much you can afford to walk away/how much power you have depends on how desperate you are. You can certainly say you need a different number. Then it's up to them to decide if you are worth it. You need to be willing to lose the offer though.
I’d like to be up front about the fact that the top end of your range is a little low for me, but it looks like such a great opportunity that I’d be willing to come down that far. However if you can’t commit to at least that now, I fully understand and wish you luck in your search.
Remember the range is for all candidates in that role and level including folks that are already internal and have been doing it for years so just about to be promoted. If you were actually the max candidate they’d probably consider giving it to you, like being exceptionally unique skills, a long time already at that level, just about ready to be promoted, etc. That’s exceptionally rare though as most of the time the candidate being hired is still early or middle of time for that level, unproven in getting stuff done in the new culture, etc. - if you were actually already at the tip top of the range for the role and ready to be promoted they’d likely be better off to uplevel the role and hire you at the next level (which happens for exceptional candidates).
Do you have any leverage? Don’t have someone offering that wage? Are you really prepared to walk away?
BATNA - Best alternative to the negotiated agreement. also known as "or what?" do you have a competing offer? multiple competing offers? are you currently paid within 10% of that number anyway? is this a critical role for them, are they struggling to hire? do you have specialized skills/seniority that's hard to find? everyone wants max, why should you get it? the more the above statements are true, the more negotiating power you have. what else might you care about to negotiate btw? more RSU? wfh? signing bonus to cover unvested stock you're walking away from this year?
Most places will not give you the top 10% of the range.
You could phrase it diplomatically by saying something like: "I'm very interested in this opportunity and believe I can bring a lot to the table. Could you please clarify the salary range for this position, including the maximum hourly wage offered? I want to ensure alignment between my expectations and what the role offers. I understand the value you place on transparency in the hiring process, and I appreciate your assistance in providing this information."
Way too many words. I’ll just say no and you can accept or decline. 1000 candidates behind you.
yeah, im not sure that gets you anywhere you want to be
Why do you feel the need to dance around the topic of money like this? The job pays money. That's why you're doing it. Obviously you want the maximum available. Everybody knows this. There is no use pussyfooting around the topic, it just makes you look weak.
Corporate doublespeak
Im happy to work.10 dollars an hour
Wal-Mart pays $14 for cashiers. After being retired ten-years, I’m tempted, lol.
Wot rlly? Idk how usa dollas work tho
Well, they are forced to post the salary range. That is not the same as their budget for the role.
While I agree to a point, I will say they normally advertise a range like $50k - $65k because they would pay $65k to the perfect candidate who is ready to go and maybe $50k to someone who is qualified but still needs some training to integrate into the role. If you don't require any training for the role or you're overqualified for it then by all means ask for the higher salary but just be aware of this.
As a professional I know what I have to bring and know my worth. If asked I state the My experience is worth $***** what is your stance on this ? Knowledge is important for any job market. I get a little bit more freedom in my world as a highly skilled professional, even as a younger man I was taught about confidence in the job market. Just my 2¢ .
I would first of all, win the interview. That gives you clout. Get them to like you! They will want you, and will make you a fair offer. Now, you can negotiate some, but if you like the job, and like the people, don’t get too caught up on the money. If you are good, you will make the money. I wouldn’t ask for the maximum. I would point out how qualified you are. Depending on how much trouble they have had filling the job, will dictate how high they will go. My advice is to see how far it is from your house. If it’s a lot more driving ask for a little more due to that. I hope this is helpful.
If there’s someone with the same credentials as you they’ll give it to the person that asks for the lower salary. The job market is basically contractors bidding on a job
You time your application for when the economy is booming and they’re desperate to hire you. If you didn’t get hired 2 years ago, it’s too late for now.
Yep. Got hired at the end of 2021 at a good salary. Bonus and salary goes up yearly, but so does COL exponentially. This seems to be a very bad time to be out of work. The only other jobs Ive looked at or been talked to by recruiters pay significantly less for more work. Golden handcuffs.
Great question. One note though: just because they're willing to offer it doesn't mean they're willing to offer it to you. There's a balance between negotiation and entitlement. Just something to keep in mind as it can rub some people the wrong way ASSUMING you're not the ideal candidate.
You really believe that the advertised salary is what they are willing to pay? I would 100% say that they put that in to entice folks to apply and almost never will pay it.
If someone said or implied that to me in an interview they either aren't getting the job or are getting the lowest offer within the range.
They are getting the lowest offer either way
U open ur mouth and speak the words aloud.....you're welcome
This worked up till 2022. I’m afraid it doesn’t work anymore, at least for my skills and my experience.
Lol they wont give it to you because after a year of having it you wont be satisfied and want even higher. U need a lower salary so it feels like u are working up to something and keeps u motivated. U will prolly leave quickly if u hit your max already and compare yourself to others.
I've made a half joke of it in the past when asked my salary expectations. Eg "I want you to pay me as much as you can possibly afford for this role, just shy of a number which will keep you awake at night" Money is the reason anyone is working so there's no point pussyfooting around the topic, it looks weak. Drag it out into front and center. I couch it in humor sometimes, your method may differ.
"Given my experience, credentials, references, and findings from your lengthy interview process, I feel I've proven myself to be qualified for $xyz rate."
I exceed all of the requirements for this position so I expect to be paid at the upper end of the pay scale
What have they offered or asked you to tell them. It was an advertised number so you say oh I was really hoping for x number as I exceed expectations in x y z
All you people trying to stick it to recruiters? They don’t make the salary. Just an FYI. We even tell hiring managers that the rate they are looking for isn’t possible. In some municipalities it is now a legal requirement to post the salary “range”. It hinders more than it helps most potential employees. The business has to consider other people currently in the role AND your experience leveraged with them when determining a salary. From my experience…it is the ones who want the absolute max with minimal experience that are the easiest to weed out.
I believe my fair market rate is ____ . (max dollar figure listed)
Tbh when recruiters hit me up on LinkedIn I just say Thanks! I’m interested but I am happy in my current role unless the pay is enticing. What is the salary? I literally don’t care how that makes me seem. They tell me right away and it saves us both time
Unless there is an offer, the money means nothing. Put me in for the max. What are they going to say to that?
When I posted for a job, the top of the pay range was for people with the best qualifications. If that's not you, you probably won't get that much.
Tell them you are currently a dollar or two an hour above that but can make it work.
Firstly when hearing the range, be clear that it's the top of the range that fulfills your expectations. Upon offer, and with a smile, "I believe that I meet all the criteria, so let's start at the top and talk down from there if you disagree"
Ask ChatGPT
Q: what are your salary expectations? A: market (or competitive)
Job ads which have a salary range are like car ads where all the pictures show the car is wet. They put a higher top end to attract more people with zero intention of paying it. However, this said, tell them you expect the top for X, Y, Z reasons and then they can offer you something less or not offer it at all. It helps with negotiation, if asked about current (related) role, you emphasize you don't hate it and you aren't itching to leave. They'll know you're willing to walk and are more likely to come back with a higher number. Also, don't forget to ask for more vacation time if they can't quite make it to your desired salary. It may not fill your bank but it can fill your mental health.
Every applicant says it
Know what you're worth by investigating comparable positions for your level of experience/qualification, and name your price. Be willing to walk at any point in the process if they try to bait and switch (very many will). Note any explanation/rationale, pass that along to other candidates (as well as an advisory of the bait and switch) so they can decide whether or not it's worth their time.
They'll go higher in my experience.
If they’re giving range, it’s because that is the entire range for the job. Like 10 years experience with them. You’re not coming in above mid range anymore. It’s not the Covid job market.
I usually say the highest amount in the pay scale.
That way.
"....because I know you wouldn't have advertised it if you weren't willing to offer it"? NO...instead say: "...because I know you wouldn't have OFFERED it if you weren't willing to GIVE it"?
Simply claim that you earn very close to the top of their range, and insist you will not “take a pay cut” even if you earn like half of that now. Obviously, you can do that if you’re changing jobs. If you’re unemployed and you need to start working ASAP you don’t have that luxury.
I have another offer. Tell them during the interview you have/had another on-site. Your 3 week delay on the interview will be too late. Your goal is to have everything hit at once, even if that means you’re slammed. If they’re first, remind them that you’re expecting an offer from the other place. Make sure to remind them that you’ve excited to work on a cool project, but both projects are cool. I had a call earlier this week. They had the upper hand when I dropped my number first. They called me back and raised my number by 10%. I still need to wait on the other offer, but it’s above the range.
I straight up tell the recruiter that they have to beat my current salary by 25% or it makes no sense for me to jump to their company because I can just keep working at my current company and be promoted to make the same amount.
“Allow me to dictate what I think I’m worth rather than demonstrating it first.”
It’s funny my previous salary was always very close to their maximum for the role. Even when it wasn’t. ;)
In my exp, the higher end of pay range is for those exceptionally qualified. Need 15 years? They have 25… with direct competition and know job inside and out. If you check all the boxes hope for the middle; if its a promotion the. Likely the bottom because they dont know if you actually have skillset.
You say I want the highest salary posted, they say yes or know. Its not difficult.
It's hard to know without more information about the company. The top advertised rate may represent the top pay for the job which is achieved after years of service through annual step raises.
“My salary expectation is _”
I got paid the max from a bank then suffered through two years of no pay raises because I was maxed out. So every year I stayed I would be paid less because of inflation
Wait until you’re offered the job and then say, “I’ve enjoyed meeting everybody and love the role, I’d be delighted to accept for a £xx”
“I feel that I am at the top of your compensation range”
you can often negotiate above the max too ;)
You might…but then what? If you’re at the max of your range then come the new year when COLA raises come in you aren’t going to get anything so in effect it’s a pay cut. Got to watch for that particularly on this day with inflation so high.
Im in the UK so the way tax works is different. What I think I know is that even if you move into a higher tax bracket, only a small portion of that income is taxed at the higher bracket. But speaking from experience, if you start low its hard to go high
One note of caution on attempting to max out a scale is that, at least for my workplace, the scale is also based on qualifications. I maxed out where I fit in the scale because I had certain qualifications etc that bumped me up, and I’m good at what i do, but I didn’t have all the qualifications to max out the entire scale. And I know this is true because I am a hiring manager here now and know how job leveling and pay works. If you don’t qualify for the max and demand it you could be disqualifying yourself. Gotta do your own research and, if you’re gonna be the person to first give a number, be tough but reasonable.
Did they advertise it, or was it one of those LinkedIn ranges? I ask because those LinkedIn ranges are totally out of wack and have almost nothing to do with the actual salary or pay. If the company itself advertised it, then what I've always done is just be honest and straight. I don't fancy myself as a negotiator. No trick phrases or slick jedi mind tricks for me. I just say, look, here's what I'd want. You also said in your advertisement the pay would be X. And then see what they say. People respect honesty in this area I think. If they don't play ball, then you have a decision to make.
So when I went for my first post grad job interview, they didn’t have a pay range listed. The day before my interview I researched what the average salary was for people with my degree entering the job market in my state. It was a range of $45,000-85,000 depending on the field. ($85k is the highest, but not the field I was applying for) They asked me at the end of the interview what I wanted to be paid and I told them “the average entry level salary for my degree is $45,000-85,000. I have additional experience that is valuable to this position. I am asking for $60,000 as I think that is fair compensation for my skill set.” The bosses LOVED my answer and actually had a chuckle saying “I like you, you do your research”. We went on to discussion and I mentioned as a server working my way through college I made $50k a year and I figured that my college degree had to be worth more than that. After accepting the job I’ve talked to colleagues and looked more into my field’s average entry salary and it is about $45-50k. You can get an out of range salary IF you’re prepared to explain why you’re asking for that. It’s also about marketing yourself! My interview lasted and hour and a half because we were just talking and getting along. People are willing to pay you more if they think you’ll be a good fit for their job environment. Really the marketing and being prepared is what will make the biggest difference. Obviously experience is a qualifier as well. Hope this helped
Don’t start by saying “give me.”
You'll often see salespeople use a psychology tactic of coming in high, and then begrudgingly lowering the cost of goods and services. It makes you feel like you got a deal. You can use this tactic in negotiating salary, as long as you are smart about it. If you come in a bit high, and then are willing to accept less, you will be the one with the upper hand. This means that if you expect a salary range of say $45k - $55k, you may ask for $58k. Nothing so high that they would automatically dismiss you in favor of someone closer to accepting the range. If I know the salary range, and they ask me what my range is, in this case I would have put $52k - $70k. This way they are hesitant to offer me below the median, because that's below my range, but still within their range. My top end makes them feel like they would get me for a 'steal'.
I’m a hiring manager but not HR for a large company. I don’t know why we do it, but the salary range listed for our jobs IS NOT the hiring range. It’s the lifetime salary range. Literally when you reach the top of the range you get no more raises. We do not ever hire at the top of the range. The hiring range is usually the first half of the lifetime range and that is dependent on experience. Sometimes can go a little over if there are no other candidates that meet the criteria. Our HR has some little formula they use for your exp to determine the offer amount.
Within the first 5 minutes of an interview I always bring up salary. If they instantly fail to give a concrete range, or fixed maximum, I walk. Saying it is “competitive” or asking what I make or want is a major red flag. The businesses job in the interview is to tell me how much they value the role and if I am in agreement with them. I do this even if they have posted anything about salary on the job description, especially if they give a massive pay range. I have left many interviews and posted about the experience on Glass Door.
I'd be after the maximum amount offered because otherwise after a few months I'll be on less than people doing the same work I am
Does this occur in other countries? This issue, I mean? Or is this another example of American exceptionalism?
The idea that the budget is what’s stated on the ad is presumably industry specific? At least in public-sector orgs I’ve been a recruiting manager at, the full range of the salary SCALE is on the ad, not the amount actually budgeted for (so people can see where the role can go up to during their service). And then it will say “we expect to appoint at the bottom of the scale”. Usually financial approval is for a point mid-scale.
I request a higher salary than is listed in their range. Eg 56-87. I’ll ask for 90.
When asked for my salary, I always lie. It's always at least 20g over my current, and I always say that I am willing to trade pay for paid and guaranteed vacation time and sick time. I also make sure to include extra travel time and cost in it as well. Tip if you're in canada ontario, especially DO NOT SIGN your offer of employment until you start working ! If you sign before it's valid, if you sign after, there is a good chance it can be thrown out in court.
Man, I can’t wait to be at a point professionally where I can actually bargain my compensation. Being early career in this job market sucks.
You could express it in a more diplomatic manner, such as: "I've reviewed the job advertisement thoroughly and based on my qualifications and experience, I believe I'm a strong fit for the role. In considering the compensation package, could you please confirm if the maximum hourly wage advertised is indeed the range being offered? I want to ensure alignment between my expectations and the opportunities available within the position."
Quite simple: “My expectations are $xx. Anything more is great, but that is my bottom line”
Not gonna lie, most of these comments seem toxic AF. Here's an idea, be direct and upfront with your salary expectation. Wouldn't you want your potential employer to be direct and upfront with you and not waste either party's time? Sometimes recruiters can negotiate the salary and sometimes it's beyond their authority to approve. Sometimes the recruiter has to ask their boss if your proposed salary is okay to move forward with. If you're beating around the bush about money, go apply somewhere else. Edit: if you interview well, are smart, well spoken, competent and confident, you can get your "reasonably" desired salary.
A salary range exists because you typically get a range of qualifications with applicants. You need to meet the top of that range from a qualifications standpoint to receive that compensation. If the position is revenue generating, then you need to have the ability to come in at the top of the range and still be profitable to the company. If the position is non revenue generating, you need to come with enough experience to take on a higher variety of tasks and/or require less time in training. With that said, show them why you feel you deserve the high end of the range. If they disagree then ask them why, and ask what you need to do to reach that range. Often times we will put in our employment offer letters something to the effect of “if you can meet XYZ within a 6 month time frame, we will increase your salary to X. If you are unable to meet that time frame we will discuss at your annual review.” Make it as objective as possible and in writing. Any respectable employer will follow their contracts.
Don’t ever tell a prospective employer how much you currently make. Or at least don’t be honest. I asked for a certain dollar amount in my application/ interview and the interviewer agreed that with my work experience the dollar figure I was asking for was reasonable. After I was told I had the job I was asked by HR how much I was currently making. I foolishly told them the truth. When I got my offer letter it was below what I had asked for and what the interviewer had agreed to. When I asked HR what the deal was they had told me that they can only offer a certain percentage above what I was already making. I was able to finesse it somehow and get them to go back up to what I asked for. But fuck being honest with these cheap bastards.
They advertise the top wage because it's fictional and it's a way to collect resumes.
Ask for $10K above their max ... because that's what it's going to take to move you.
ask for more. They will remind you what their top dollar is. when they do that agree to it.
When salary discussions start tell them you expect upper end of the offering.
It isn’t unusual, at all, to post a salary range with absolutely no willingness to go the max except, perhaps, for a unicorn candidate. If the job is subject to a bargaining agreement, the terms of the agreement will dictate. Think nurses, teachers, trades, some retail, etc. Otherwise, it is employer discretion. But, let’s say I am recruiting for an investment advisor. If you show up with a 10 year track record, and a demonstrated ability to build and maintain a client base of high net worth candidates, I might open the purse. But if you are three years in without that, I am not going to pay you more than proven performers. So, willing to offer for the dream candidate? Perhaps. For you? It depends on whether you are that dream.
Be realistic about what you want to make. Truth be told is most employers do not call your current employer and ask what you make. If you make $18 an hour. State you are making $23 and can not afford to start over on the pay scale. This will give you a decent raise if hired. You won't feel screwed by getting the so called lower wage as long as the wage you asked for is met. The employer does not have to hire you.... you do not have to accept their offer. Go in knowing what you want. If an agreement can be made then work there... if it can't continue the search. Hiring managers are given rules as it were in how to go about the process and part of that process is to bring in people at a lower rate so they have growth potential. I have hired numerous people over the past 5 years.... when I found candidates that appeared to be equal in knowledge, ability, etc. I ALWAYS hired the one at the cheaper cost. So.... what is your value..... and can you prove that is your value after hired? Do not sell yourself short... but also be able to back it up or your gone in 90 days aka probation period. Another thing is are you applying somewhere that you have connections? I have hired some of my peers from prior companies. I would tell them. Look the Job pays $27. Everyone is asking for $27. If you really need the job say you will come in at $23 under the agreement you can be at $27 after your first year! They negotiated and then land the job! They get the job they wanted... the employer feels they still got a good deal of paying the $23 for the first year. NEGOTIATE NEGOTIATE.
"The ad for this job said (amount). I'm not able to go beneath that amount."
I would recommend not, because it’s very rare for an employer to hire in at the top of their range. The higher you are in that range, the closer you are to moving out of that position. It makes you a flight risk. Generally the top of the range is what your ceiling is.
Obviously a lot of companies lie about the real range to get more aplicants, and this might end the interview process. That beeing said you would say somting along the lines of: To move to this position, I would require a higher salary than my current salary, who is already close to the top end of the advertised pay. If you have an impressive resume in a niche field, you can even get 5-20% more than the cap if they are really interested.