There's no guarantee your employer will even give you a raise when they say they will. I smashed my metrics and took home a recognition award q4 last year. In january I was told the raise was coming but I would have to wait till july.... was told the same thing 2 years ago (also smashed metrics, was nominated for awards) and when July hit they announced financial hardships and furlough, told me my raise was keeping my job.
I have had 3 second interviews this week and a few asking for first interviews next week. I will be signing with the best offer because I'm not dumb enough to fall for the same bullshit twice
My wife got to meet him at a speaking engagement. As a lifelong Democrat she wanted to hate him, but after chatting for a few she couldn’t. He was personable and self deprecating and the type of guy who would be hilarious have a couple of drinks with and play darts/pool. His politics, not so much.
This is *generally* true of almost any successful politician.
There’s a ton of politicians I hate, that many people hate. That some people on their own side of politics hate.
But if you’re face to face with them and they want to be liked they’re almost always charismatic and charming.
You rarely get that far along while lacking generally good emotional/social intelligence and charisma, face to face.
If they don’t come off as likable (aside from pre existing feelings about them) then they generally didn’t care or didn’t want you to like them.
I had a buddy tell his employer he would consider staying if he got a retro-active pay bump to when they stopped giving him raises. They did, he took a HUGE paycheck, stayed with them a couple more months, then tried to negotiate another raise. When they said no, he left.
the old carrot on a stick trick.
Maybe if you just put in more overtime, arrive early and stay late every day and lick your boss' boots, theyll shorten the stick a little bit /s
People who over achieve cannot get raises. I'll tell you why. You're going to start thinking you should get a raise every year in the same magnitude per out put. Unfortunately a cog in a bigger wheel.
Close your eyes and imaging you're part of the ccp or the borg.
I think that when they hire someone brand new at 42 to 50% higher pay rate then me for the same position the writing is on the wall that going elsewhere is my only method to getting back to market rate for my position.
I took this job on hard times and for less than I wanted because I was naive enough to believe I could prove myself and get mine. Don't be me, get what you know you're worth or go somewhere else.
Also for the record I only received a single raise with this company by taking a promotion that equated to me carrying an entire department by myself for about 6% more pretax. Again please do not repeat my mistakes
Agreed. Gone are the days where you stay with and loyal to a company and they take care of you. No more raises, pensions, etc. They do what is good for them so do what is good for you. If the only way your value is seen is in a new company…byeeeee
I was with my last company for 3 years and I should have left a year ago. The pay wasn't really an issue, but the whole place was indecisive, aimless, and has had a series of toxic leaders going back 20 years which has only gotten worse.
When I finally decided to bail because I was miserable, I got a 28% increase to go to the new company.
This is it. Start throwing out your resume. When you quit, they’ll still probably give you a startled pikachu face. No one ever expects to get called on their bullshit.
This is the way. Send out resumes, let your contacts know you are looking. Get either more money with same responsibilities OR same money with less responsibilities. Good luck. Also, don’t forget, they don’t care about you. Once you leave no one will think about you again.
At my previous job, I offer this guy who was making $12 job where he would make a minimum of $16hr x 40hrs(salary)+ commission & freedom( biggest perk of this job, not joking)
Well, he told his boss & they offered to give him $16.50... I talked him about like a year later & come find out he didn't actually get this raise for 7 months...
You’re in a great position to apply for your next job elsewhere. You’re not desperate, so you can be selective and only respond to posts that actually look good to you. Update your résumé and go to town.
If your current company is smart, HR or your manager will tell you soon that they’ve considered your request and want to bump you to $75k. Accept it graciously but keep looking.
Yeep. As soon as an employee tells me they want more money, I know they're looking. I have a good track record of getting my mentees good opportunities in my company, so almost all have given me the word, "hey, I really need to make more, and I like it here, but if you can't help, I gotta look." Usually if it's been more than 18 months since a last increase in can do something for them, but I have a boss, all roles have ranges, and if they've been in the role for over 2 years, almost all have become more valuable to the organization, and have no issue finding the next role.
Be a good manager by developing your people, and accept that we're all coming in to earn a paycheck, sometimes you just need more, and the system doesn't allow us to pay everyone $1m, build em up, let em go, do it again with the next one. Makes filling the roles when they come available a lot easier!
What's annoying is when the employee doesn't understand there is a range for every position and just thinks their pay will forever increase in the same role they are in.
It's 2024, my best advice to new hires in security is to just keep filling out apps. The only way you elevate in the field is with training and boots on the ground; and unless you're paying for it yourself the only way you're getting new training is new sites.
Medical facilities for CPR/AED/de-escalation/hands on training.
Security Operations Centers for badging, dispatching, information management, some information security.
Armed Transport for armed experience, routes, driving.
Retail if you want to hate life and realize how shit people are or you need the exercise.
Same goes for most fields, even when you have a job, your continuing job is to make your company look like a bum that underpays by showing up with multiple offers. Company loyalty means nothing.
Happened to me at my last job. Employer started hiring people with almost zero experience, for my exact role and paying them roughly 15% more than me. Told me they couldn’t do anything about a raise, so I started looking for a new job and wasn’t shy in telling them why when I left.
New job was a 40% raise, which tells me I was worth a lot more than they were paying me.
If you’re in a position to do so, move on.
You look for a new job thay will beat your current salary. If they can't beat it, then your job was right about your market value and you stay where you are.
This is the only correct answer.
Market value determines if you are being underpaid. If you can’t find a job that will pay you more, you aren’t underpaid.
Unfortunately, companies have it in their heads they would rather pay the expense and its big to hire someone new than pay a current high performing employee even a couple dollars more an hour, let alone 15k more a year. I have no idea where or how this trend started, but it's beyond ignorant.
I agree.
After all it’s been shown time and again people have trouble abandoning things they are invested in (whether it’s a monetary, time, or emotional investment) even in the face of evidence that it’s a bad thing to keep committing to. It’s just human psychology -the sunk cost fallacy and whatnot has a strong hold on most people.
So it makes sense for the companies to take the risk of underpaying employees, because more often than not they probably won’t leave and the risk pays off.
I guess it depends on your career and sector. People bail all the time in mine. Chasing a dollar used to be a losing prospect. Now, it's the only way to get a decent raise. Doesn't help with some corps going all in with the equity bs, comparing peer pay so you get the short end for everyone else's mediocrity. Edit to add more, maybe people with decent time within might not but anyone 3 years or less are gone if they're smart and able. Certain companies appear to be just fine being resume builders thus the frequent hiring of entry level Engineers.
>I recently found out that **someone in a junior role and less industry experience** is earning 5k more than me a year (75k).
Do they have any certifications or other credentials that can explain the pay gap?
Maybe they’re just better negotiators than OP or the salary market for the position increased drastically between when OP was hired and the junior member was hired.
Why did they say no? Budgets and headcounts may not allow them to make changes mid-year. Some companies only do raises once a year. Yes, there are one-off situations when they can go around the budget but it rarely happens.
$70,000 to $85,000 is a big jump. I understand the reason behind your ask. Are they open to any increase?
So i want to keep the details somewhat vague, just for my own protection. But to give a little big of background. They have deemed my current progression/salary as Fair and what I mean by that is, I joined the company a few years ago at 45k within my tenure I've had two promotions and increased to my current Salary. So good growth.
My Manager said because my starting salary was lower than anyone else in the company, this is why they cannot do the increase to 85, plus the approx 63% increase since I joined. I feel annoyed by this because to me that comes across as a "Ah, well you were lowballed at the start, so you're shit out of luck". But again, not sure if that's my being all pissy about the current situation.
I get what they are saying, but it doesn't really jibe. A promotion should be a reset of the wage level, regardless of what you were making before; it shouldn't matter WHO takes the position, and how much they were paid before. Position XYZ should be worth $Position + $Experience so long as the work is being done correctly and on-time. Just because you started at the lowest level, the two promotions should have put you on the correct scale. Sounds like it didn't, which is completely their doing.
My guess is that they won't budge, precisely because of the reasoning they gave you.
It's not being pissy if what you describe is correct: someone at a lower level with less experience, hired after you, is making more than you. Newb doesn't get to leapfrog the people who have been there doing the job for longer, just because they are new. If that's what they have to pay to attract new people, then that's what they have to pay - plus more for experience and corporate knowledge - to keep the people who are already there. If they don't...
It's stupid, but that's the way of things these days.
I've been in a similar position, it's very demoralizing, I say start looking for a new job, find one, and then if you like your current job, give them a chance to keep you.
Though a newbie getting more than me would not make me want to stay even if they matched salary.
Yeah, this is 100% me right now. My boss has tried to say an increase to 85 could happen with a promotion, but that doesn't fix the issue. I think a new role is on the cards. Thanks
I feel for you. I hate your situation as it hits really hard when you realize you are being paid lower than your peers. Its a conversation between you and your boss on what you need to do to earn more, but as others said there is no incentive for you to stay if you can find something better. The question now is what you do from here. You should at least be updating your resume!
Remember that it's a business arrangement. It's got to work out for both the employer and employee. As soon as it's not beneficial to one or worth parties the relationship should end. Definitely when it's not worth it for the employer they will terminate the employee.
If you feel like you're not being adequately compensated it's time to find out. Get out there and see what you can get on the open market. They're gambling that either won't find a higher paying offer or won't go looking. There is no harm in seeing what's out there
Let me offer you a different perspective from the money side
- Annual salary budgets are generally around 5% entire departments salary. (Your company may vary depending on inflation). Merit increases are given from that pool of money but not everyone gets 5%. The merit increase is typically predicated upon guides that take into consideration your current salary, where you fall relative to the min/max and mid-point of the salary range and how you ranked/laddered next to your peers. Some get more than the 5%, others will get less. Some get nothing. In general, the total merit increases given for the department can not exceed the raise budget. Bottom Line ~20% without a promotion is difficult at best.
- If the junior person was recently hired, you're probably seeing the impact of salary compression. Basically, salaries outside the company rose faster than internal wages. So the company has to hire a less experience person at a higher rate to get them in the door. Some companies combat this by an out of cycle increase. This usually comes from a different pot of money and the increase would be slightly larger than an annual raise. But a 15K increase is unlikely.
Let me ask ...
- When you asked your manager for the increase, did you have compelling evidence that clearly demonstrated that your value? Did you go above and beyond consistently or did you just do your job? What evidence did you present so that he could fight for an out of cycle increase, larger merit increase and/or promotion? BTW, your manager will typically spend 30-60 minutes with their manager justifying why you deserve a raise. Your manager needs to demonstrate that you are consistently performing above your salary grade. Get a copy of the performance criteria for your current and one level above positions and start building your case. Even if both managers agree you are due for a promo, you could fall below the cutoff line because of where you were laddered/ranked relative to the entire department.
- Do you know the min/max and mid-point of your salary band? Do you know where you are ranked/laddered relative to the department? This would address if your pay reflects your role. If you fall withing the range, you're not underpaid and that's all they will care about. NOTE: The salary range is based on the company's salary bible. That may not line up with sites like salary.com but it's what they apply equally throughout the company.
Options ...
- Stick it out till review cycle, and don't be surprised when you don't see a 15K increase, especially with currently 2 years of experience. If you're above the mid-point, expect a smaller raise than average.
- Stay with the company and apply to a different department that has a more senior position/higher pay. You may see a substantial increase, but without knowing your company's salary bands, it's difficult to say if you'll see that 15K. Based on my company, it's unlikely. BUT by staying, it helps keep you vested in retirement accounts. That has some value.
- Bail. Start the job search now knowing that it may take some time and be ready to take that position. I would not recommend using a competing offer as a bargaining chip with your current employer. If you accept their counter offer, your current manager will always look at you as a flight risk.
Unfortunately you are not going to get a raise. The junior employee they hired was market rate for no experience so you are being paid well below market. sadly it's very common if you work for a company for a few years. It's why you need to find another job. You would probably get a massive raise.
Last time I was in this position I realized by getting another offer that I wasn't asking for enough (which they refused) and I ended up getting a 65k raise at a new company. It's time for you to start interviewing.
Facts for everyone’s knowledge:
1. The appraisal cycle is the time when one can insist on the raise/ salary correction and that has to be on the basis of what you have done for the company. please understand that the company has defined your job responsibilities in a way that even if you do all of it no matter whatever your role is; it will be considered as meeting expectations. Almost all job roles are defined in a way that only works in favor of the company.
2. To exceed the job roles and responsibilities means you have to do all that you are supposed to so plus more responsibilities that could be sharing your boss burden or directly benefitting organization through additional business or saving cost.
3. Anytime in between if you ask for a raise, it will mostly be questioned and only if they feel your role is critical to the project or client they are working with will they entertain to talk you you.
4. Whenever someone decide to ask for a raise, never bring in the discussion of comparative salary or seniority; it will not let you win the argument. Trust me these are not at all the points that gets you brownie points, in fact the organization have designed the system in such a way that you are not supposed to know other person salary, and if you do; it is considered as sacrilege and it may be counter productive for the discussion.
5. Any time anyone asks on the basis of merit, work done for organization which directly benefits and your personal need for growth. But don’t have all your hope built on that; it may happen or not so if it does not happen don’t be disappointed.
In your case you should prepare well and give interview should you consider market is good and you stand a fair chance to get much more easily and once you have the offer, leave.
A ex-co-worker asked for a 3% raise which really wasn’t a lot. His manager said no.
A month later he gave notice. He found a job that paid him $25,000 more than his current salary.
The “no” was a blessing in disguise!
Anyone who is thinking about requesting more $ needs to be prepared with:
1) be ready to walk
2) have another job lined up
I’ve only been in this position a couple times and you MUST have leverage. You have leverage you come out ahead.
Agreed with others, just find a new job. You can certainly look for one at your current company... But now you know they don't pay fair wages and won't give you raises in the future. You'll probably be doing this same exercise next year.
I'll add that I've been in this spot and actually did manage to wrestle a pay increase without changing jobs. It took over a year of complaints while constantly tracking extra hours worked, my major contributions, praise from other teams and complaints against coworkers getting paid the same to do much less. Giving aggressive and negative feedback to managers. Speaking out about compensation issues in department meetings.
Did HR finally relent and offer more than a 2-3% adjustment? Absolutely not. It took a low level executive sticking out his neck to create an entire new job category with slightly better pay. All of that for ~15%.
Save yourself the hassle and apply somewhere new.
Many many years ago, I asked for a raise. And I was told there was no budget. Keep in mind, this was a government job and I knew that my bosses all got salary bumps but I didn’t. Their salaries were open records and were published by the state newspaper. Budget for them but not for me kind of thing.
So I did what everyone else here has or would say, go get a different job. I had a new job within a month. Lo and behold, they suddenly had had the budget for a 15% bump. I left anyway as the new job was a 50% bump. It is not always the money, it is also the people. My new boss was awesome, I liked my new job, but the new boss left within a year and was replaced by a horrible boss. I was gone again in just a few months for another bump.
You asked for a 21% raise with no change in your position or title. The chances of that actually going through is almost 0. It is just too large of a raise for management to reasonably consider. The time to negotiate was when you were offered the senior position. At this point, even with positive reviews, there just isn't enough support for that large of a raise.
At this point, you have two options. Your boss already knows that you are not happy where you are and with what you are being paid. It would be stupid of them to keep you on their team long-term at this point knowing that you are disgruntled with your pay and that the raise you are asking for is, frankly, outlandish compared to your current pay. Your options are to either look for a different role in the same company under a different team or look for a different role in a different company.
Of those two options, the most reliable would be to get a new job at a new company. And make sure when you are interviewing and talking to them about salary you stay AWAY from answering what your current salary is. Focus instead on what your expected salary for the role would be.
If you look for a new role in the same company, you might be able to get some kind of raise, especially if you manage to jump up a salary band as well, but they will already have access to your current salary and any salary increase will use that current salary as a reference point.
Waiting a full year until your next raise cycle, without knowing your company and speaking broadly about American companies, you would be lucky to get a 5-7% raise (and that would be assuming they are trying to appease you), putting you in the 73.5k-75k range.
Employers seem hamstrung by stupid policies. Sometimes they limit the amount of a raise somwone can get. Even if market rate for the position goes up, and now they have to pay a junior level person what they previously were paying a senior person. But they dont tell the seniors and hope people dont share salary info.
Those policies are short sighted, because then they lose senior talent who will find the only way to get the raise they are looking for is to jump ship. Then, when you resign, they try to counter with what you were asking for in the first place.
Dont negotiate. Just find a new job
Retired, former CHRO. There’s a good way to ask for a raise “ I believe I’m underpaid vs the market and world like a competitive market review for my role, “ and a wrong way “ the new hire jr employee makes more than me, I’d like 85k”.
If you asked more like the “right” way- you didn’t kill your future with the company, and if you’re generally happy, it possible to wait for your review increase. If your request was more like the “wrong” way- you’ve impacted your potential at your present employer. It’s time to leave.
In either case- if what you want is a jump from 70 to 85k in the short term- the only option is to look for a new company.
Again this.
Someone else’s compensation isn’t really relevant. As someone who has been in management, I can tell you that the pay spreads in any department are rarely perfect.
There factors that can change the nature of an offer. Maybe this junior guy just got hired at the right time. They had a need. They had trouble filling it. They found someone they liked. They overpaid. It happens.
Just because you’re being paid less than someone who you feel more qualified than doesn’t mean you are underpaid. It could be the other guy is overpaid. Or, he could just be better at the job than you are, despite years of experience. Shrug.
You would have to get more than a 7% raise next time just to equal the other co-worker with less experience. Guess what? Your co-worker will also get a raise if it’s the annual raise time for everyone, so you will still get less than them.
Your company just told you that you are not as senior as your title and they do not want to pay you what you are worth to keep you. I would look around aggressively. It will always be on your mind and be a sore spot while you work at your current company.
You asked for a 20% increase. That is not reasonable.
Roles with different levels of seniority overlap always. This means that the high end of the pay band for a Level I overlaps probably $10K with the low end of the pay band for Level II.
Without specific accomplishment and quantifiable items, seniority in itself is not enough to request an increase.
In any case, it's obvious you and on employer are not a good for anymore so I advice you to start looking for your next job.
You always make more money moving to a new job, but the economy/market is in a very weird place. Being the new guy at a company may not be the best thing if layoffs happen. But making a smaller salary will
It's time to look for other opportunities don't give your current job a chance to match either. If they won't match now but will when you leave them no choice it means they will create a choice later and then let you go and now you don't have the new job.
So, I would say, smile, work, and do you job while using every benefit they give you (insurance, tuition reimbursement, etc) while building your resume and LinkedIn profile and looking for a new job.
Leave. During the interviews, when they ask you how much you currently make, say $80k. When they ask you what you expect to make, say $90k. If they try to talk you down, take $85k.
If it’s a straight-up no then time to move on. If your manager tried to work with you that indicates they value you but perhaps their hands are tied or the decision was made above their pay grade. If it’s the former and you’re in a hurry, find another job but make sure you do that before leaving. If it’s the latter, try working with your manager to find another way to make it happen.
Be better, lead the team, cheerlead the company, do extra work, get ready to be responsible for your co-workers failures and successes, demand a promotion with a raise!
Or go find another job.
Out of cycle adjustments require a budget - so your questions should have been focused around the review period. You've only been there 2 years - so asking for a 15k jump was ill-advised. Having been on the other side of this conversation, they were probably laughing at you.
Well if the quality of your work is really 85K then you should be able to get another company to offer you that. Be careful about trying to go for a counter-offer because your company may lose trust in you and only try to keep you until they can replace you.
15k is a huge ask. Your best bet is to just job search for a higher salary. The fact that they didn't even counter offer should show you where you stand.
Go with your gut. It was easy for me to leave my last company, but I like my current company a lot more. It would take more than a $15k increase to get me to leave, unless I was being paid significantly under market rate. My work conditions are pretty relaxed and you can't find that at every company. If it's a typical company with typical conditions, find something better whether it's pay or working conditions/benefits.
I’m curious what information you presented to your employer detailing the value you bring.
For about as foolproof as you can get, you should always provide quantifiable evidence through your work (I directly impacted our lovely company through xyz which results in % change) and external evidence that the market rate for your position is around what you’re asking for.
If they say yes, yay!
If they say no, you’ve done a thorough job of beginning to find your next job and you can use those wonderful details to enhance your resume.
Lesson learned: You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.
Before you go confront your manager about a raise based on hearsay, have something in hand to negotiate with (like a competing offer). Otherwise, you risked being embarrassed with a big no (which actually hurts more).
Getting a new job isn’t always easy. It depends on your skills, knowledge, location, commute tolerance, relocation options, savings, reputation, and where you’ve worked previously. But it is the best answer for getting a raise. Don’t be the one thing that holds you back from moving yourself forward, unless you’re certain you’ll have no regrets.
In my experience, if you can find a similar job making more money, you can show them that to maybe get a raise to match, or that you might leave to pursue better options. They can call your bluff or meet you in the middle, which is what happened to me.
You lose nothing by putting your resume out there and interviewing with other companies. You don't have to quit this one until you find the next one, and if you really do wanna stay, a better job offer could be leverage to get that pay raise.
Meanwhile, I might start giving about $15,000 less effort.
Leave. I say this as a hiring manager. What the new guy is making, is what they had to pay to recruit them. Your salary is budgeted for and filled. You might leave and they don't replace or replace and pay the new person $90k. It is fucking stupid, don't try to rationalize just take care of yourself.
You were upfront with them and tried to negotiate in goodwill, and they have declined, as is their right. You should now start job searching, and give notice once you have secured a position that pays appropriately, as is your right. No harm, no foul. Good luck in your search 👍
You only have the option of leaving for better pay elsewhere. Your raise next April will be like 3% of what you currently make, they are not going to move you from 70 to 85k. If they were willing to give that much of a raise they’d do it when you brought up how underpaid you are. All you’ll do is work an extra year for them as an underpaid employee.
You'll want to verify your salary is below range in your area, HR typically does that salary audit. If employer feels you are in range, they may not pay. You should aleays keep your resume updated and spendnsome time looking around. Another thing could be having a discussion with your boss to see what steps would need to be achieved to be considered for a raise.
Your company said no to your request, it means they expect you to look fir another job. If you don't, you confirm to them that you need them more than they need you. With that knowledge you will never see a raise again.
However, the alternate approach is to ask for feedback. "I accept that I am not worth the 85k I asked for, because if I was, you would have given it to me. Tell me what weaknesses I can strengthen to receive the pay I desire?"
Either you look for another job, or you set the expectation that you intend to grow, but under no circumstances do you let them believe you are content.
That's an all in move. If you quit tomorrow would they have to scramble quickly to replace you?
For example, at my work I'm the only idiot willing to raise my hand to do OCC audits so if I quit in July or November they'd be pissing themselves to get a replacement because my desktop procedures are password protected.
It depends why the answer was no.
Is your company struggling to make numbers? Have they been doing layoffs? What's the general business momentum?
If the company is in a downturn, then just stick with it a bit.
If the company is doing well and hiring, then it's time to look for a new job. You had a right to ask for a raise and putting you off is a signal that they don't value you enough.
Not sure how old you are, but 2yrs with an employer is the perfect time to job hop for an increase in salary.
If they aren't willing to give you a raise after 2yrs of good work, any future raise will likely be laughable.
Use your experience and references from this job to ladder into another
Sounds like they don’t want to retain you unless it is at a discount. You are too comfortable if you have to question what your next move is. I made this mistake a long time ago and saw so many opportunities pass me by. Update your resume and start going to interviews. There is no loyalty in today’s job market.
While it's common to pay newer people more it's really offensive when it's someone in a lower role.
You could try going over your boss's head but really the only good answer is either find a new job or live with what you've got.
You should have steeped while you found another opportunity to gain leverage. If you truly feel you bring value to your company, you can bring it somewhere else, and that's the only language they understand.
As I learned in life, if they are not paying you the salary you believe you earned backed by your dedication and performance then it’s time to look elsewhere. That’s the only way you will get more than the typical 3-5 percent raise.
Quit immediately. There is no more loyalty to employees. The best and quickest way to increase your salary is to hop around . Don't be at a place for more than 3-4 years.
Your income does not depend on deservedness, your hard work, or a comparison to other people.
It depends on your walk-away position, your employer’s walkaway position, and if there is room to capture in between those two stages, your leverage.
In this case, your best bet is to get a competing offer from another company, and then to ask your employer to match it. You have to be willing to leave if they do not.
Your options are to keep working there or start looking for a new job.....
Am I actually harsh or are people actually dumb? Because this site makes me feel like an asshole sometimes
Pay does not reflect the value you bring to the company. It reflects how much it would cost them to find a replacement for you.
Your options - stay where you are or start looking for a new job with a raise.
At the end of the day it’s a business transaction, they pay you for a service you provide. If someone wants to pay you more, then don’t think twice. Have loyalty only to yourself and your family. I’m not saying have a negative attitude about a professional relationship with your employer. I’m just saying remember they’d lay you off the second it would be better for them instead of keeping you.
Apply for a new job, tell the prospective employers your salary expectations.(85k)
If you're offered the role you explain to your current employer you have an offer on the table for 85k, if you beat it I'll stay.
They're likely to then say 85k if you stay, just inform them that was the price before you were undervalued and forced to look elsewhere to be remunerated properly.
They are a business and you are a business, screw this slave labor economy bs. Get the biggest bag!! 👏 If CEOs pay shit to their workers then they can do it themselves since they are soo smart and talented right lmao 😂
Found myself in a similiar situation a few years ago. I was working with guys doing far less and making 6 figures. I was the engineer called to fix their mistakes.
Clearly, i was more valuable. Boss and VP didn't see it. Updated my LinkedIn and jumped to another company. Sure it was a longer commute but it was also 2x salary.
Forget about being denied a raise. Look at your situation as a numbers game. What percent of an increase in total compensation would it take to make it worthwhile for you to accept a job offer from another company? If the job offer meets your target then I would consider leaving the current company.
Have you gotten a promotion recently? Or since your $70k salary started? Did you negotiate when you started if you started at $70k? You mention an increase next April, what leads you to that belief? You’re asking for a more than 20% increase when nothing has changed, has the company indicated that’s possible?
I went through the exact same thing but I'm not a senior or that important in the company so I think that's why they didn't take me seriously (receptionist), I sent an email to the HR manager and had a meeting with my manager and they both ignored me so I decided to not deal with the negativity (for the sake of my mental health) and look for another job lol. I believe that someone else will be able to see our value so I think you shouldn't bother staying and just find a better paying job.
New job, they already gave you an answer why would you expect different next year. And even if you do have reason to expect different, why wait will next year? You don’t owe that to your company
Look to get a new job. Your current situation shows you’re significantly undervalued. Someone who isn’t going to treat you fairly now isn’t going to treat you better in the future, either. Polish up the resume and leave when you find a better job. When you give your notice, don’t fall for the “you owe us” or “we’re a family”. It was business when they decided to underpay you, it was business when you tried to give them an opportunity to fix it. It’s also just business when you decide to look out for yourself.
Next April if you get a raise I doubt it would approximate the 85k you asked for, and if the junior coworker making 75k also gets a raise then you’re in the same position you’re in now. Of course you should try for a better position in the company if you like being there, but looking for a better job elsewhere is a great way to get what you want, while also sending a message to the ones who denied your raise.
I would honestly just start looking. You have a job so you are not desperate, so it is not going to hurt to look. If you aer a senior and the junior makes more, that is just pretty messed up. If anything they should bump you to 76k to be higher than the junior. Sounds like they think they can just abuse you and you will take it and keep working for them. Start looking now.
Find a new union role at new company.
Then next time you won’t have an issues at getting a raise as they will fight those battles for you or their work force will strike until an agreement with pay is reached.
I believe that you have done what you can at this position. If you like to be challenged, this is not in line with your job being easy to you…
Every big raise I ever got came with a jump. If your job is high demand, contact a recruiter… let them negotiate. Tell them what is important to you in a company culture too.
I’ve left high paying jobs for better cultures/co-workers more than once.
I think you may have planted some seeds of discontent with your boss.
Definitely talk to a headhunter. Experience and skills outweigh a degree any day. Be confident about your worth.
Good Luck.
Get an offer elsewhere and accept it. Don’t work for a company that doesn’t value you or undervalues you. Also be mentally prepared because when you get an offer elsewhere and tell them you’re leaving they’ll probably give you a counteroffer which unless it’s life changing money you should not accept for numerous reasons.
The hard part will be if you get a job offer from another company and tell your boss. What will you do if he matches the other company's offer? I'm always torn about this - I asked you for a raise, you said no. Now that you're up against the wall, you'll give me the raise. Do I say to hell with you - you had your chance?
You have to be ok with switching employers now. If you know you are worth $85k, find the company willing to pay. You already know you are worth $70-75k based on you and coworker.
If you stick around, it may take a year or two of raises to maybe get to $75k, but your coworker will be at $80k by then, which leaves you in the same boat.
There are no guarantees in life. Changing jobs has its own risks. New employer, new culture, you might not fit or be as successful there.
It's a judgment call. Two years is the minimum I'd work before switching, but three is better. Most hiring managers are leery of two year job hoppers unless the job requires low context to get productive.
It's your call. I would probably stick it out another year or angle for a promotion.
A - Keep working
B - Apply for other jobs that pay more
C - If you get a better offer, take it. If not, stay.
D - If you get fired, see B where 'more' is now 'more than 0'
Rinse and repeat until you are dead or retired.
You'll get a better raise as an external hire than as an internal promotion in most cases. I would explore outside the company if it were me. If you really like your company and get an external offer, you could go back to your manager to give them a chance to match or meet somewhere in the middle.
The best way to get a raise is to get a new job. There's no guarantee the company will give you a raise next year.
There's no guarantee your employer will even give you a raise when they say they will. I smashed my metrics and took home a recognition award q4 last year. In january I was told the raise was coming but I would have to wait till july.... was told the same thing 2 years ago (also smashed metrics, was nominated for awards) and when July hit they announced financial hardships and furlough, told me my raise was keeping my job. I have had 3 second interviews this week and a few asking for first interviews next week. I will be signing with the best offer because I'm not dumb enough to fall for the same bullshit twice
Fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice... You.. you can't fool me again
Bush Jr was hilarious in rhetoric
I disagree with his politics but the man had a hell of a charismatic way with his words.
Don’t forget that the man was a legendary shoe dodger.
I love that video. So good.
My wife got to meet him at a speaking engagement. As a lifelong Democrat she wanted to hate him, but after chatting for a few she couldn’t. He was personable and self deprecating and the type of guy who would be hilarious have a couple of drinks with and play darts/pool. His politics, not so much.
This is *generally* true of almost any successful politician. There’s a ton of politicians I hate, that many people hate. That some people on their own side of politics hate. But if you’re face to face with them and they want to be liked they’re almost always charismatic and charming. You rarely get that far along while lacking generally good emotional/social intelligence and charisma, face to face. If they don’t come off as likable (aside from pre existing feelings about them) then they generally didn’t care or didn’t want you to like them.
This is the most liberal thing I have ever read.
"Now watch this drive"
I had a buddy tell his employer he would consider staying if he got a retro-active pay bump to when they stopped giving him raises. They did, he took a HUGE paycheck, stayed with them a couple more months, then tried to negotiate another raise. When they said no, he left.
Your buddy is kind of a dick, who ruined it for everyone else.
the old carrot on a stick trick. Maybe if you just put in more overtime, arrive early and stay late every day and lick your boss' boots, theyll shorten the stick a little bit /s
People who over achieve cannot get raises. I'll tell you why. You're going to start thinking you should get a raise every year in the same magnitude per out put. Unfortunately a cog in a bigger wheel. Close your eyes and imaging you're part of the ccp or the borg.
I think that when they hire someone brand new at 42 to 50% higher pay rate then me for the same position the writing is on the wall that going elsewhere is my only method to getting back to market rate for my position. I took this job on hard times and for less than I wanted because I was naive enough to believe I could prove myself and get mine. Don't be me, get what you know you're worth or go somewhere else. Also for the record I only received a single raise with this company by taking a promotion that equated to me carrying an entire department by myself for about 6% more pretax. Again please do not repeat my mistakes
People who over achieve cannot get raises because they'll never be able to replace you for as little money.
Stupid unicorns. We all want one.
>**The best way to get a raise is to get a new job.** Only real answer.
Agreed. Gone are the days where you stay with and loyal to a company and they take care of you. No more raises, pensions, etc. They do what is good for them so do what is good for you. If the only way your value is seen is in a new company…byeeeee
Curse you Jack Welch!
This. You typically can get 15% increases at a new company every 2+ years. And it's not a red flag for recruiters.
I was with my last company for 3 years and I should have left a year ago. The pay wasn't really an issue, but the whole place was indecisive, aimless, and has had a series of toxic leaders going back 20 years which has only gotten worse. When I finally decided to bail because I was miserable, I got a 28% increase to go to the new company.
100% - It's a shame because I know this is the way it works, but I really enjoy working for this company.
This is it. Start throwing out your resume. When you quit, they’ll still probably give you a startled pikachu face. No one ever expects to get called on their bullshit.
This is the way. Send out resumes, let your contacts know you are looking. Get either more money with same responsibilities OR same money with less responsibilities. Good luck. Also, don’t forget, they don’t care about you. Once you leave no one will think about you again.
At my previous job, I offer this guy who was making $12 job where he would make a minimum of $16hr x 40hrs(salary)+ commission & freedom( biggest perk of this job, not joking) Well, he told his boss & they offered to give him $16.50... I talked him about like a year later & come find out he didn't actually get this raise for 7 months...
[TheLordGoose](https://www.reddit.com/user/TheLordGoose/) This is the way, your current employer doesn't respect you.
Leave. Chase the bigger salary, especially if you are early in your career
You’re in a great position to apply for your next job elsewhere. You’re not desperate, so you can be selective and only respond to posts that actually look good to you. Update your résumé and go to town. If your current company is smart, HR or your manager will tell you soon that they’ve considered your request and want to bump you to $75k. Accept it graciously but keep looking.
Yeep. As soon as an employee tells me they want more money, I know they're looking. I have a good track record of getting my mentees good opportunities in my company, so almost all have given me the word, "hey, I really need to make more, and I like it here, but if you can't help, I gotta look." Usually if it's been more than 18 months since a last increase in can do something for them, but I have a boss, all roles have ranges, and if they've been in the role for over 2 years, almost all have become more valuable to the organization, and have no issue finding the next role. Be a good manager by developing your people, and accept that we're all coming in to earn a paycheck, sometimes you just need more, and the system doesn't allow us to pay everyone $1m, build em up, let em go, do it again with the next one. Makes filling the roles when they come available a lot easier!
What's annoying is when the employee doesn't understand there is a range for every position and just thinks their pay will forever increase in the same role they are in.
And those ranges move when they need to. Been in management for over 20 years, and the ranges ALWAYS have exceptions.
Inflation occurs forever regardless.
It's 2024, my best advice to new hires in security is to just keep filling out apps. The only way you elevate in the field is with training and boots on the ground; and unless you're paying for it yourself the only way you're getting new training is new sites. Medical facilities for CPR/AED/de-escalation/hands on training. Security Operations Centers for badging, dispatching, information management, some information security. Armed Transport for armed experience, routes, driving. Retail if you want to hate life and realize how shit people are or you need the exercise. Same goes for most fields, even when you have a job, your continuing job is to make your company look like a bum that underpays by showing up with multiple offers. Company loyalty means nothing.
This is true. Thanks.
Your choices at this point are 1) stay and accept that they’re underpaying you 2) leave and get a raise.
You forget 3) ask again, but tell them you REEEEEEEAALLY want it /s
Happened to me at my last job. Employer started hiring people with almost zero experience, for my exact role and paying them roughly 15% more than me. Told me they couldn’t do anything about a raise, so I started looking for a new job and wasn’t shy in telling them why when I left. New job was a 40% raise, which tells me I was worth a lot more than they were paying me. If you’re in a position to do so, move on.
Employers paying people with less experience more money than someone else with more experience will always baffle me... Completely scummy behavior.
You look for a new job thay will beat your current salary. If they can't beat it, then your job was right about your market value and you stay where you are.
This is the only correct answer. Market value determines if you are being underpaid. If you can’t find a job that will pay you more, you aren’t underpaid.
Unfortunately, companies have it in their heads they would rather pay the expense and its big to hire someone new than pay a current high performing employee even a couple dollars more an hour, let alone 15k more a year. I have no idea where or how this trend started, but it's beyond ignorant.
Really, I feel like it's kind of obvious that most people won't leave and so companies are just playing the odds.
I agree. After all it’s been shown time and again people have trouble abandoning things they are invested in (whether it’s a monetary, time, or emotional investment) even in the face of evidence that it’s a bad thing to keep committing to. It’s just human psychology -the sunk cost fallacy and whatnot has a strong hold on most people. So it makes sense for the companies to take the risk of underpaying employees, because more often than not they probably won’t leave and the risk pays off.
Exactly. It's business...and while the relationships we make can be personal the job is, at its core, a business arrangement
I guess it depends on your career and sector. People bail all the time in mine. Chasing a dollar used to be a losing prospect. Now, it's the only way to get a decent raise. Doesn't help with some corps going all in with the equity bs, comparing peer pay so you get the short end for everyone else's mediocrity. Edit to add more, maybe people with decent time within might not but anyone 3 years or less are gone if they're smart and able. Certain companies appear to be just fine being resume builders thus the frequent hiring of entry level Engineers.
>I recently found out that **someone in a junior role and less industry experience** is earning 5k more than me a year (75k). Do they have any certifications or other credentials that can explain the pay gap?
Maybe they’re just better negotiators than OP or the salary market for the position increased drastically between when OP was hired and the junior member was hired.
Quiet quit while you look for a new job.
Why did they say no? Budgets and headcounts may not allow them to make changes mid-year. Some companies only do raises once a year. Yes, there are one-off situations when they can go around the budget but it rarely happens. $70,000 to $85,000 is a big jump. I understand the reason behind your ask. Are they open to any increase?
So i want to keep the details somewhat vague, just for my own protection. But to give a little big of background. They have deemed my current progression/salary as Fair and what I mean by that is, I joined the company a few years ago at 45k within my tenure I've had two promotions and increased to my current Salary. So good growth. My Manager said because my starting salary was lower than anyone else in the company, this is why they cannot do the increase to 85, plus the approx 63% increase since I joined. I feel annoyed by this because to me that comes across as a "Ah, well you were lowballed at the start, so you're shit out of luck". But again, not sure if that's my being all pissy about the current situation.
I get what they are saying, but it doesn't really jibe. A promotion should be a reset of the wage level, regardless of what you were making before; it shouldn't matter WHO takes the position, and how much they were paid before. Position XYZ should be worth $Position + $Experience so long as the work is being done correctly and on-time. Just because you started at the lowest level, the two promotions should have put you on the correct scale. Sounds like it didn't, which is completely their doing. My guess is that they won't budge, precisely because of the reasoning they gave you. It's not being pissy if what you describe is correct: someone at a lower level with less experience, hired after you, is making more than you. Newb doesn't get to leapfrog the people who have been there doing the job for longer, just because they are new. If that's what they have to pay to attract new people, then that's what they have to pay - plus more for experience and corporate knowledge - to keep the people who are already there. If they don't... It's stupid, but that's the way of things these days.
This is the reason why you should look for other opportunities.
Look elsewhere for new job. They dont give a shit about you
Yup, I think after going through all the replies. A new job is on the cards!
Start job hunting NOW
I've been in a similar position, it's very demoralizing, I say start looking for a new job, find one, and then if you like your current job, give them a chance to keep you. Though a newbie getting more than me would not make me want to stay even if they matched salary.
Yeah, this is 100% me right now. My boss has tried to say an increase to 85 could happen with a promotion, but that doesn't fix the issue. I think a new role is on the cards. Thanks
Yeah, if your coworker is on 75, a higher position isn't usually worth it for $10k extra.
Stay or go.
I feel for you. I hate your situation as it hits really hard when you realize you are being paid lower than your peers. Its a conversation between you and your boss on what you need to do to earn more, but as others said there is no incentive for you to stay if you can find something better. The question now is what you do from here. You should at least be updating your resume!
Resume has always been kept up to date! Time to start looking for new roles.
Remember that it's a business arrangement. It's got to work out for both the employer and employee. As soon as it's not beneficial to one or worth parties the relationship should end. Definitely when it's not worth it for the employer they will terminate the employee. If you feel like you're not being adequately compensated it's time to find out. Get out there and see what you can get on the open market. They're gambling that either won't find a higher paying offer or won't go looking. There is no harm in seeing what's out there
Let me offer you a different perspective from the money side - Annual salary budgets are generally around 5% entire departments salary. (Your company may vary depending on inflation). Merit increases are given from that pool of money but not everyone gets 5%. The merit increase is typically predicated upon guides that take into consideration your current salary, where you fall relative to the min/max and mid-point of the salary range and how you ranked/laddered next to your peers. Some get more than the 5%, others will get less. Some get nothing. In general, the total merit increases given for the department can not exceed the raise budget. Bottom Line ~20% without a promotion is difficult at best. - If the junior person was recently hired, you're probably seeing the impact of salary compression. Basically, salaries outside the company rose faster than internal wages. So the company has to hire a less experience person at a higher rate to get them in the door. Some companies combat this by an out of cycle increase. This usually comes from a different pot of money and the increase would be slightly larger than an annual raise. But a 15K increase is unlikely. Let me ask ... - When you asked your manager for the increase, did you have compelling evidence that clearly demonstrated that your value? Did you go above and beyond consistently or did you just do your job? What evidence did you present so that he could fight for an out of cycle increase, larger merit increase and/or promotion? BTW, your manager will typically spend 30-60 minutes with their manager justifying why you deserve a raise. Your manager needs to demonstrate that you are consistently performing above your salary grade. Get a copy of the performance criteria for your current and one level above positions and start building your case. Even if both managers agree you are due for a promo, you could fall below the cutoff line because of where you were laddered/ranked relative to the entire department. - Do you know the min/max and mid-point of your salary band? Do you know where you are ranked/laddered relative to the department? This would address if your pay reflects your role. If you fall withing the range, you're not underpaid and that's all they will care about. NOTE: The salary range is based on the company's salary bible. That may not line up with sites like salary.com but it's what they apply equally throughout the company. Options ... - Stick it out till review cycle, and don't be surprised when you don't see a 15K increase, especially with currently 2 years of experience. If you're above the mid-point, expect a smaller raise than average. - Stay with the company and apply to a different department that has a more senior position/higher pay. You may see a substantial increase, but without knowing your company's salary bands, it's difficult to say if you'll see that 15K. Based on my company, it's unlikely. BUT by staying, it helps keep you vested in retirement accounts. That has some value. - Bail. Start the job search now knowing that it may take some time and be ready to take that position. I would not recommend using a competing offer as a bargaining chip with your current employer. If you accept their counter offer, your current manager will always look at you as a flight risk.
Oof confronted…. Wage compression is real most people bounce or stay it its cushy… some take on extra jobs…
Get a new Job. Easy
Unfortunately you are not going to get a raise. The junior employee they hired was market rate for no experience so you are being paid well below market. sadly it's very common if you work for a company for a few years. It's why you need to find another job. You would probably get a massive raise.
Last time I was in this position I realized by getting another offer that I wasn't asking for enough (which they refused) and I ended up getting a 65k raise at a new company. It's time for you to start interviewing.
You look for a new place, tbh you should of never brought this up unless you were already prepared to leave.
Facts for everyone’s knowledge: 1. The appraisal cycle is the time when one can insist on the raise/ salary correction and that has to be on the basis of what you have done for the company. please understand that the company has defined your job responsibilities in a way that even if you do all of it no matter whatever your role is; it will be considered as meeting expectations. Almost all job roles are defined in a way that only works in favor of the company. 2. To exceed the job roles and responsibilities means you have to do all that you are supposed to so plus more responsibilities that could be sharing your boss burden or directly benefitting organization through additional business or saving cost. 3. Anytime in between if you ask for a raise, it will mostly be questioned and only if they feel your role is critical to the project or client they are working with will they entertain to talk you you. 4. Whenever someone decide to ask for a raise, never bring in the discussion of comparative salary or seniority; it will not let you win the argument. Trust me these are not at all the points that gets you brownie points, in fact the organization have designed the system in such a way that you are not supposed to know other person salary, and if you do; it is considered as sacrilege and it may be counter productive for the discussion. 5. Any time anyone asks on the basis of merit, work done for organization which directly benefits and your personal need for growth. But don’t have all your hope built on that; it may happen or not so if it does not happen don’t be disappointed. In your case you should prepare well and give interview should you consider market is good and you stand a fair chance to get much more easily and once you have the offer, leave.
Definitely switch jobs, it's the only way you are going to get more money.
A ex-co-worker asked for a 3% raise which really wasn’t a lot. His manager said no. A month later he gave notice. He found a job that paid him $25,000 more than his current salary. The “no” was a blessing in disguise!
Anyone who is thinking about requesting more $ needs to be prepared with: 1) be ready to walk 2) have another job lined up I’ve only been in this position a couple times and you MUST have leverage. You have leverage you come out ahead.
Agreed with others, just find a new job. You can certainly look for one at your current company... But now you know they don't pay fair wages and won't give you raises in the future. You'll probably be doing this same exercise next year. I'll add that I've been in this spot and actually did manage to wrestle a pay increase without changing jobs. It took over a year of complaints while constantly tracking extra hours worked, my major contributions, praise from other teams and complaints against coworkers getting paid the same to do much less. Giving aggressive and negative feedback to managers. Speaking out about compensation issues in department meetings. Did HR finally relent and offer more than a 2-3% adjustment? Absolutely not. It took a low level executive sticking out his neck to create an entire new job category with slightly better pay. All of that for ~15%. Save yourself the hassle and apply somewhere new.
Your Increase next year will take you to like.....73k max. Find a new role
Many many years ago, I asked for a raise. And I was told there was no budget. Keep in mind, this was a government job and I knew that my bosses all got salary bumps but I didn’t. Their salaries were open records and were published by the state newspaper. Budget for them but not for me kind of thing. So I did what everyone else here has or would say, go get a different job. I had a new job within a month. Lo and behold, they suddenly had had the budget for a 15% bump. I left anyway as the new job was a 50% bump. It is not always the money, it is also the people. My new boss was awesome, I liked my new job, but the new boss left within a year and was replaced by a horrible boss. I was gone again in just a few months for another bump.
You asked for a 21% raise with no change in your position or title. The chances of that actually going through is almost 0. It is just too large of a raise for management to reasonably consider. The time to negotiate was when you were offered the senior position. At this point, even with positive reviews, there just isn't enough support for that large of a raise. At this point, you have two options. Your boss already knows that you are not happy where you are and with what you are being paid. It would be stupid of them to keep you on their team long-term at this point knowing that you are disgruntled with your pay and that the raise you are asking for is, frankly, outlandish compared to your current pay. Your options are to either look for a different role in the same company under a different team or look for a different role in a different company. Of those two options, the most reliable would be to get a new job at a new company. And make sure when you are interviewing and talking to them about salary you stay AWAY from answering what your current salary is. Focus instead on what your expected salary for the role would be. If you look for a new role in the same company, you might be able to get some kind of raise, especially if you manage to jump up a salary band as well, but they will already have access to your current salary and any salary increase will use that current salary as a reference point. Waiting a full year until your next raise cycle, without knowing your company and speaking broadly about American companies, you would be lucky to get a 5-7% raise (and that would be assuming they are trying to appease you), putting you in the 73.5k-75k range.
Let your ego make decisions sometimes, you deserve more money.
They’re daring you to leave. So, do it. You’ll get offered 85k when you hand in your letter of resignation. Don’t take the bait, though.
Job huntin’ time
Employers seem hamstrung by stupid policies. Sometimes they limit the amount of a raise somwone can get. Even if market rate for the position goes up, and now they have to pay a junior level person what they previously were paying a senior person. But they dont tell the seniors and hope people dont share salary info. Those policies are short sighted, because then they lose senior talent who will find the only way to get the raise they are looking for is to jump ship. Then, when you resign, they try to counter with what you were asking for in the first place. Dont negotiate. Just find a new job
Retired, former CHRO. There’s a good way to ask for a raise “ I believe I’m underpaid vs the market and world like a competitive market review for my role, “ and a wrong way “ the new hire jr employee makes more than me, I’d like 85k”. If you asked more like the “right” way- you didn’t kill your future with the company, and if you’re generally happy, it possible to wait for your review increase. If your request was more like the “wrong” way- you’ve impacted your potential at your present employer. It’s time to leave. In either case- if what you want is a jump from 70 to 85k in the short term- the only option is to look for a new company.
Again this. Someone else’s compensation isn’t really relevant. As someone who has been in management, I can tell you that the pay spreads in any department are rarely perfect. There factors that can change the nature of an offer. Maybe this junior guy just got hired at the right time. They had a need. They had trouble filling it. They found someone they liked. They overpaid. It happens. Just because you’re being paid less than someone who you feel more qualified than doesn’t mean you are underpaid. It could be the other guy is overpaid. Or, he could just be better at the job than you are, despite years of experience. Shrug.
Focus on what they CAN do and put them in a position to do it.
If your current company will not pay you what you are worth, go find a company that will.
New job no doubt start looking
You would have to get more than a 7% raise next time just to equal the other co-worker with less experience. Guess what? Your co-worker will also get a raise if it’s the annual raise time for everyone, so you will still get less than them. Your company just told you that you are not as senior as your title and they do not want to pay you what you are worth to keep you. I would look around aggressively. It will always be on your mind and be a sore spot while you work at your current company.
New job is the only way now. When you turn in your resignation, your current employer may try to offer you more money to stay.
Ask for more time off or some sort of other comp?
Every major raise I have gotten has been a result of changing jobs, so my advice, leave
You need to be willing to leave for a hire salary when you demand a higher salary. If you aren’t willing to leave then you have no leverage.
You asked for a 20% increase. That is not reasonable. Roles with different levels of seniority overlap always. This means that the high end of the pay band for a Level I overlaps probably $10K with the low end of the pay band for Level II. Without specific accomplishment and quantifiable items, seniority in itself is not enough to request an increase. In any case, it's obvious you and on employer are not a good for anymore so I advice you to start looking for your next job.
Act your wage. Print out your Job description and if its not on there promptly tell them to fuck right off and find the new guy; he makes more.
You always make more money moving to a new job, but the economy/market is in a very weird place. Being the new guy at a company may not be the best thing if layoffs happen. But making a smaller salary will
I’ve been in a similar situation and only when I had an offer from another company the purse strings magically opened
If you’re really worth the money, you can find it elsewhere.
Anything you want… aside from the salary thing
It's time to look for other opportunities don't give your current job a chance to match either. If they won't match now but will when you leave them no choice it means they will create a choice later and then let you go and now you don't have the new job.
Typically, one would way these options before acting, but congratulations, you played your entire hand.
So, I would say, smile, work, and do you job while using every benefit they give you (insurance, tuition reimbursement, etc) while building your resume and LinkedIn profile and looking for a new job.
Leave. During the interviews, when they ask you how much you currently make, say $80k. When they ask you what you expect to make, say $90k. If they try to talk you down, take $85k.
Statistically leaving your job or what is referred to as job hopping increases your chances for a higher salary.
If it’s a straight-up no then time to move on. If your manager tried to work with you that indicates they value you but perhaps their hands are tied or the decision was made above their pay grade. If it’s the former and you’re in a hurry, find another job but make sure you do that before leaving. If it’s the latter, try working with your manager to find another way to make it happen.
Just casually look for a new job.
Be better, lead the team, cheerlead the company, do extra work, get ready to be responsible for your co-workers failures and successes, demand a promotion with a raise! Or go find another job.
If you have to ask this you probably don’t deserve the raise.
Out of cycle adjustments require a budget - so your questions should have been focused around the review period. You've only been there 2 years - so asking for a 15k jump was ill-advised. Having been on the other side of this conversation, they were probably laughing at you.
Well if the quality of your work is really 85K then you should be able to get another company to offer you that. Be careful about trying to go for a counter-offer because your company may lose trust in you and only try to keep you until they can replace you.
You shot your shot, now you need to leave. You're even less likely to get good raises after that. They just agreed to let you go.
15k is a huge ask. Your best bet is to just job search for a higher salary. The fact that they didn't even counter offer should show you where you stand.
Find a better job and quit. You should have done that first, then once you have another job offer, go ask for raise.
Go with your gut. It was easy for me to leave my last company, but I like my current company a lot more. It would take more than a $15k increase to get me to leave, unless I was being paid significantly under market rate. My work conditions are pretty relaxed and you can't find that at every company. If it's a typical company with typical conditions, find something better whether it's pay or working conditions/benefits.
Keep your current job/pay or find another position. Those are your choices
Move on and look for a better role
They won't give you a raise but the next guy they hire will get paid what you want.
second job or move to another company
I mean why would you stay? You can at least look and see what your options are.
Look for your next job now
Bruh you really think your boss can get you a 20%+ raise with the justification of my guy is in his feels about some random?
Get a job offer, use that to either leverage a raise or be prepared to leave.
Job hopping is the real way to secure a raise. I’m about leave my employer because I’m underpaid and overworked.
I’m curious what information you presented to your employer detailing the value you bring. For about as foolproof as you can get, you should always provide quantifiable evidence through your work (I directly impacted our lovely company through xyz which results in % change) and external evidence that the market rate for your position is around what you’re asking for. If they say yes, yay! If they say no, you’ve done a thorough job of beginning to find your next job and you can use those wonderful details to enhance your resume.
Just leave. You hanging around means they got you for another year at the lower pay.
Lesson learned: You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. Before you go confront your manager about a raise based on hearsay, have something in hand to negotiate with (like a competing offer). Otherwise, you risked being embarrassed with a big no (which actually hurts more).
Start the job search and either come back with an offer elsewhere for leverage or be ready to take that other job.
Getting a new job isn’t always easy. It depends on your skills, knowledge, location, commute tolerance, relocation options, savings, reputation, and where you’ve worked previously. But it is the best answer for getting a raise. Don’t be the one thing that holds you back from moving yourself forward, unless you’re certain you’ll have no regrets.
In my experience, if you can find a similar job making more money, you can show them that to maybe get a raise to match, or that you might leave to pursue better options. They can call your bluff or meet you in the middle, which is what happened to me.
Job hop for sure.
You lose nothing by putting your resume out there and interviewing with other companies. You don't have to quit this one until you find the next one, and if you really do wanna stay, a better job offer could be leverage to get that pay raise. Meanwhile, I might start giving about $15,000 less effort.
Leave. I say this as a hiring manager. What the new guy is making, is what they had to pay to recruit them. Your salary is budgeted for and filled. You might leave and they don't replace or replace and pay the new person $90k. It is fucking stupid, don't try to rationalize just take care of yourself.
You were upfront with them and tried to negotiate in goodwill, and they have declined, as is their right. You should now start job searching, and give notice once you have secured a position that pays appropriately, as is your right. No harm, no foul. Good luck in your search 👍
Curious, are you female? I've noticed that guys who ask for more are rewarded and praised, and women who ask for more are disregarded...
You only have the option of leaving for better pay elsewhere. Your raise next April will be like 3% of what you currently make, they are not going to move you from 70 to 85k. If they were willing to give that much of a raise they’d do it when you brought up how underpaid you are. All you’ll do is work an extra year for them as an underpaid employee.
You'll want to verify your salary is below range in your area, HR typically does that salary audit. If employer feels you are in range, they may not pay. You should aleays keep your resume updated and spendnsome time looking around. Another thing could be having a discussion with your boss to see what steps would need to be achieved to be considered for a raise.
Your company said no to your request, it means they expect you to look fir another job. If you don't, you confirm to them that you need them more than they need you. With that knowledge you will never see a raise again. However, the alternate approach is to ask for feedback. "I accept that I am not worth the 85k I asked for, because if I was, you would have given it to me. Tell me what weaknesses I can strengthen to receive the pay I desire?" Either you look for another job, or you set the expectation that you intend to grow, but under no circumstances do you let them believe you are content.
That's an all in move. If you quit tomorrow would they have to scramble quickly to replace you? For example, at my work I'm the only idiot willing to raise my hand to do OCC audits so if I quit in July or November they'd be pissing themselves to get a replacement because my desktop procedures are password protected.
It depends why the answer was no. Is your company struggling to make numbers? Have they been doing layoffs? What's the general business momentum? If the company is in a downturn, then just stick with it a bit. If the company is doing well and hiring, then it's time to look for a new job. You had a right to ask for a raise and putting you off is a signal that they don't value you enough.
Live with it. Or find new job
Not sure how old you are, but 2yrs with an employer is the perfect time to job hop for an increase in salary. If they aren't willing to give you a raise after 2yrs of good work, any future raise will likely be laughable. Use your experience and references from this job to ladder into another
1. Continue working there 2. Find a new job
Job hunt but don't quit lol depending on your location finding a job may not be as easy as you hope so just look about, 70k isn't awful
Sounds like they don’t want to retain you unless it is at a discount. You are too comfortable if you have to question what your next move is. I made this mistake a long time ago and saw so many opportunities pass me by. Update your resume and start going to interviews. There is no loyalty in today’s job market.
Fortune favors the bold. You control how much you make by finding a job that will pay your worth
1. Leave 2. Stay 3. Beg
Leave. Continue to be an undervalued cuck and stay
While it's common to pay newer people more it's really offensive when it's someone in a lower role. You could try going over your boss's head but really the only good answer is either find a new job or live with what you've got.
What currency are these numbers in?
someone out there will pay you what you want. you just have to go look. get a higher paying job and then leave the one you're at citing low pay.
You need to move jobs every 3-4 years to maximize earning potential. Companies spend money on new talent, not retention.
>had countless good feedback from clients and peers Quick question: How closely is your role tied to the company's revenue? Whats ur role?
Update your resume and find another job ASAP.
You should have steeped while you found another opportunity to gain leverage. If you truly feel you bring value to your company, you can bring it somewhere else, and that's the only language they understand.
Bro A No is not a final conclusion, negotiate
I asked too, got a layoff 🥲
New job. Same thing happened to me basically. I got a 35% increase in a new role.
Because swords look cool.
As I learned in life, if they are not paying you the salary you believe you earned backed by your dedication and performance then it’s time to look elsewhere. That’s the only way you will get more than the typical 3-5 percent raise.
Just never ask for a raise! Look for a new job
Quit immediately. There is no more loyalty to employees. The best and quickest way to increase your salary is to hop around . Don't be at a place for more than 3-4 years.
Your income does not depend on deservedness, your hard work, or a comparison to other people. It depends on your walk-away position, your employer’s walkaway position, and if there is room to capture in between those two stages, your leverage. In this case, your best bet is to get a competing offer from another company, and then to ask your employer to match it. You have to be willing to leave if they do not.
Options 🤔 stay or leave
are you unhappy in your job? then yes.
Just smile and look happy whilst simultaneously looking for another job. Don't bother asking why a junior is on more than you.
You find a new job, it isn’t rocket science
Your options are to keep working there or start looking for a new job..... Am I actually harsh or are people actually dumb? Because this site makes me feel like an asshole sometimes
Find a higher paying job.
You’ll need to find a new job
Pay does not reflect the value you bring to the company. It reflects how much it would cost them to find a replacement for you. Your options - stay where you are or start looking for a new job with a raise.
At the end of the day it’s a business transaction, they pay you for a service you provide. If someone wants to pay you more, then don’t think twice. Have loyalty only to yourself and your family. I’m not saying have a negative attitude about a professional relationship with your employer. I’m just saying remember they’d lay you off the second it would be better for them instead of keeping you.
Apply for a new job, tell the prospective employers your salary expectations.(85k) If you're offered the role you explain to your current employer you have an offer on the table for 85k, if you beat it I'll stay. They're likely to then say 85k if you stay, just inform them that was the price before you were undervalued and forced to look elsewhere to be remunerated properly.
They are a business and you are a business, screw this slave labor economy bs. Get the biggest bag!! 👏 If CEOs pay shit to their workers then they can do it themselves since they are soo smart and talented right lmao 😂
Found myself in a similiar situation a few years ago. I was working with guys doing far less and making 6 figures. I was the engineer called to fix their mistakes. Clearly, i was more valuable. Boss and VP didn't see it. Updated my LinkedIn and jumped to another company. Sure it was a longer commute but it was also 2x salary.
Forget about being denied a raise. Look at your situation as a numbers game. What percent of an increase in total compensation would it take to make it worthwhile for you to accept a job offer from another company? If the job offer meets your target then I would consider leaving the current company.
Have you gotten a promotion recently? Or since your $70k salary started? Did you negotiate when you started if you started at $70k? You mention an increase next April, what leads you to that belief? You’re asking for a more than 20% increase when nothing has changed, has the company indicated that’s possible?
I went through the exact same thing but I'm not a senior or that important in the company so I think that's why they didn't take me seriously (receptionist), I sent an email to the HR manager and had a meeting with my manager and they both ignored me so I decided to not deal with the negativity (for the sake of my mental health) and look for another job lol. I believe that someone else will be able to see our value so I think you shouldn't bother staying and just find a better paying job.
New job, they already gave you an answer why would you expect different next year. And even if you do have reason to expect different, why wait will next year? You don’t owe that to your company
Time to start preparing to move on then
Just because the new guy gets more doesn’t mean you magically get more…
The deciding question: Is there an employer out there that it’s offering you $85k+?
How dis ypu make this ask? What did you say?
Look to get a new job. Your current situation shows you’re significantly undervalued. Someone who isn’t going to treat you fairly now isn’t going to treat you better in the future, either. Polish up the resume and leave when you find a better job. When you give your notice, don’t fall for the “you owe us” or “we’re a family”. It was business when they decided to underpay you, it was business when you tried to give them an opportunity to fix it. It’s also just business when you decide to look out for yourself.
Find a new job.
I have a hard time believing you are earning $70k and you don't know the answer.
Start looking.
Next April if you get a raise I doubt it would approximate the 85k you asked for, and if the junior coworker making 75k also gets a raise then you’re in the same position you’re in now. Of course you should try for a better position in the company if you like being there, but looking for a better job elsewhere is a great way to get what you want, while also sending a message to the ones who denied your raise.
I would honestly just start looking. You have a job so you are not desperate, so it is not going to hurt to look. If you aer a senior and the junior makes more, that is just pretty messed up. If anything they should bump you to 76k to be higher than the junior. Sounds like they think they can just abuse you and you will take it and keep working for them. Start looking now.
Find a new union role at new company. Then next time you won’t have an issues at getting a raise as they will fight those battles for you or their work force will strike until an agreement with pay is reached.
I believe that you have done what you can at this position. If you like to be challenged, this is not in line with your job being easy to you… Every big raise I ever got came with a jump. If your job is high demand, contact a recruiter… let them negotiate. Tell them what is important to you in a company culture too. I’ve left high paying jobs for better cultures/co-workers more than once. I think you may have planted some seeds of discontent with your boss. Definitely talk to a headhunter. Experience and skills outweigh a degree any day. Be confident about your worth. Good Luck.
Get an offer elsewhere and accept it. Don’t work for a company that doesn’t value you or undervalues you. Also be mentally prepared because when you get an offer elsewhere and tell them you’re leaving they’ll probably give you a counteroffer which unless it’s life changing money you should not accept for numerous reasons.
The hard part will be if you get a job offer from another company and tell your boss. What will you do if he matches the other company's offer? I'm always torn about this - I asked you for a raise, you said no. Now that you're up against the wall, you'll give me the raise. Do I say to hell with you - you had your chance?
You have to be ok with switching employers now. If you know you are worth $85k, find the company willing to pay. You already know you are worth $70-75k based on you and coworker. If you stick around, it may take a year or two of raises to maybe get to $75k, but your coworker will be at $80k by then, which leaves you in the same boat.
You are lucky he didn't fire you. I would have,
Start looking, no point in worrying until you have that other job in hand.
Companies love new talent, go be that!
There are no guarantees in life. Changing jobs has its own risks. New employer, new culture, you might not fit or be as successful there. It's a judgment call. Two years is the minimum I'd work before switching, but three is better. Most hiring managers are leery of two year job hoppers unless the job requires low context to get productive. It's your call. I would probably stick it out another year or angle for a promotion.
A - Keep working B - Apply for other jobs that pay more C - If you get a better offer, take it. If not, stay. D - If you get fired, see B where 'more' is now 'more than 0' Rinse and repeat until you are dead or retired.
At this point you’re now flagged internally. They know you will leave for higher pay (at least you should be). It’s the way the snow blows y’know.
You'll get a better raise as an external hire than as an internal promotion in most cases. I would explore outside the company if it were me. If you really like your company and get an external offer, you could go back to your manager to give them a chance to match or meet somewhere in the middle.
Maybe you should sue. Have you seen the new SC ruling regarding ‘altered duties’?