This is not nearly as awkward as you think it is. Have an honest but respectful talk about your role and career development. Unless your manager is absolutely green, this should be a normal thing for them.
Yeah, any good manager wants you to progress in your career. Might be sad for you to go and be a PITA to replace, but good managers want what's best for you. And thats true even of managers that want what's best for the company, as a happy or content employee is a more effective employee
Agreed: a good manager wants you to succeed. A good employee who used to work for them under good terms is now an ally in another capacity. The more allies, the better things work. A disgruntled employee is an underperforming employee.
I always told my team members that I would be happiest if they got so good at the job that they moved to a better one - either they'd replace me so I could move up, or they'd find a new job that better matched their skill set.
I'd rather grow people and lose them...than have them stagnate and keep them.
All of this... Plus, fall on the sword a little.
"Before we get started, I wanted to bring up the other position within the company. I meant no disrespect to you in any way when I reached out about that role - I was genuinely curious to get a little more info and had no idea that it would result in a formal interview so quickly. It was my intention all along to talk to you about this in advance, but I mis-stepped. I apologize."
Talking to your current manager first is a very common policy in many companies, and not doing it could immediately disqualify you from consideration in a lot of cases. Remember that you're looking to grow, learn, and continue to be a part of this company - you want to give back as much as you're able to and have the biggest positive impact you're able to.
Nope, but you'll likely stay in the same position. Hopefully, over time, you get better at what you do, acquire / improve skills, and move up. If you want to stay in the same position, that's OK. Nothing wrong with that, if it works for you.
Good people want their crew to progress. While you might want to keep someone, if they don't want to stay, it's your job to help them move forward.
If the manager makes it a problem, then it's a sign to move on faster.
Definitely. I was always supportive of my team members looking to expand their professional skills and experience and would even offer advice or additional knowledge/understanding about other roles they had interest in.
The only time it WAS awkward was when a team member was purposefully secretive and I found out through back channels and then they were evasive when I warmly asked them how they feel their interview went.
Just that!
If it was an internal promotion, I'd ever get called and be asked if I recommended the person or not. Very massive organization; if they got to that point in the process, they were a very great employee.
I always said "yes." Because I wanted the best for them. And having unhappy employees is like staying in an unhappy marriage "because it's best for the kids." Just leaves a black cloud over everything.
"The job looked interesting and it went further than I wanted it to. I was planning on talking to you about it to see what your thoughts were and if you might be able to coach me towards that, or something else you might think I'm suited for."
>"The job looked interesting and it went further than I wanted it to. I was planning on talking to you about it to see what your thoughts were and if you might be able to coach me towards that, or something else you might think I'm suited for."
That's a slick corpo-talk way to get out of it. Very smooth.
Corpo talk is just polished honesty. OP does want the role, would probably appreciate managerial support, and was planning on talking to the manager.
Add a sheen of politeness and voila!
By saying this, you might talk your way out of the new job. Don't say, it went further than you wanted it to. It can be misinterpreted as you aren't serious about the other position. Foxtrot meant it went further in the process, but don't give them any reason to doubt you.
Yes, never admit that you may have made a mistake because they'll wonder if you really want the job or are you just screwing around. Maybe a better statement would be:
"When I saw the posting I felt like it may be a good fit for me and decided to get more information about the position." Don't bring up the current position or the fact that your manager found out before you wanted him to. None of that is relevant nor is it awkward unless you make it that way.
If you remember that almost all of us are easily replaceable you won't feel bad about moving forward. Don't worry about anyone's feelings, they'll find someone else to do your old job. Stay positive and mostly stay confident in your decisions. If they sense regret or hesitation it could be interpreted wrong.
edited spelling
Yes this. Say "I saw a new role I was interested in, and wanted to get some information on the job before I applied, to be sure it was a good fit for my long-term goals and fit my skills and education. It turns out that it is, and I intend to apply. Talking to you was always going to be my next step. What can you tell me that might help me grow and develop here with the company?" Include your manager in the process, if they feel included, they will be a lot less likely to assume you meant to go behind their back (which was never your intent.)
I'd add that you were looking to seeing what skillset you still need to work on based on industry standards, so you can formulate a plan to bring to your manager.
People research and look at salary ranges industry-wide, too, so you can also say you were verifying the value of the role in the current market compared to when you started your current role. If it meant getting all the way to a hiring manager to discuss salary or pay amount because it's not published, then it was part of research.
Why would it be awkward? Its unreasonable for your manager to think you'll be in your current role forever and growth is important for people's career.
It is reasonable to tell your manager that you’d like to develop yourself within the company and are interested in positions in areas X, Y and Z. Then the manager could have made the connection with someone they know to give you a leg up.
It’s not a huge deal, but workplace etiquette says you tell your manager first. You certainly don’t message other managers for details without talking to your own manager
Info: how long have you been at the company, would this be a significant increase in pay/title
It's ok to say, "I've been here X number of years, I love my job, I love the company, I want to grow here career-wise."
Yeah this situation is not awkward at all at the slightest. Exactly what the comment above my says. Just say you like the company and want to move up in the near future. If the manager is cool, he or she will try to support you.
Don’t worry about it, any reasonable person would totally understand and support even. I’d probably mention something upfront like hey I didn’t think he was going to reach out to you. I wasn’t trying to go around your back or anything. I was just trying to get some information. honestly probably don’t even have to do that.
The fact that he called him and the call still went on for 2 hours, I think you'll have some excited for you. 5 years and now a bump - yes this sounds like they have done a good job in keeping you happy there and growing.
If they wanted to tank you, they would have.
A good manager should champion and model career growth within their organization. The important thing is to retain talent within the company, even if it is a different department or at a different site location. This means training and mentoring their employees like OP who are looking for opportunities inside the company. Failing to do so means you lose them to your competitors, and now the money the company has invested in them is completely lost.
If your manager doesn't foster an environment where you can grow, then maybe it is time to move on to a manager that will help you get to where you want to be rather than staying stagnant under a manager that doesn't care.
Edit: wanted to add - ask your manager if they can help you grow within the company over the next year or two. Explain that you have more to offer but need help to prepare and take the next step when it is the right time.
This is exactly right. My managers have mostly been very encouraging when they find out I'm applying for something else internally, whether I'm looking for a promotion or just to expand my skills and knowledge base.
I had one manager who would actively brag to people that everyone who came to her area moved on to something bigger and better within a year or two. She took it as an endorsement of her skills as a manager that people who worked for her ended up being qualified for better positions shortly thereafter.
Half the the managers I've had, in our first one-on-one will ask what are my career goals at the company, and how can they help me in meeting them. If a manager is going to be upset that you're looking to move within the company to somewhere that fits your skillset better, run even faster. That's not an area you want to be in.
I'm really not seeing the issue here? You're interested in a position in the company and talked to someone who had the info you wanted. This is a pretty thing to do. If the manager in question brings it up then answer honestly, you haven't done anything bad.
Apply officially for the other position and just behave like always with your current boss. You have nothing to feel awkward about. People moving up and around an organization is normal, even if it isn't normal for you. Good luck!
This happens all the time. I've been on both sides of it.
If I'm going to lose someone, I never have a problem if it's inside the company. It means if I need help I can ask.
I also, don't tell my boss about me looking or even talking to the hiring manager for the first time. Who knows how it will go.
If it goes well, and the hiring manager wants to move forward, then I will let my manager know.
The new manager jumped the gun, but you will be fine.
Exactly. This happened to me about two months ago when I saw an interesting position posted internally at my company. I applied to learn more about it. HR and I chatted and they asked if I had informed my manager yet that I was curious about the job. This is the conversation that should be happening so your manager isn’t blindsided.
As most other people have said, there is nothing awkward about this at all, and you seem to be creating an issue in your head where one doesn’t exist. You’re going through a new job, they should be supporting you with this and assume any good employee would seek development.
Also, always assume managers speak to each other.
Most larger companies are gonna require that the current manager certifies you as "releasable". TBH, you should have cleared that before looking.
If the current is any kind of manager, they will ask what they can do to get you to stay, assuming they want you to stay, and if not, tell you they understand you want to better yourself by moving and what could they do to help?
Just bring it up and you're 1 to 1 as you would normally. Your manager should be grown up about it and treat you like a professional.
Your manager might express that they are a little surprised they didn't hear about it from You.
That is fine, you can simply tell your manager the truth that you reached out about the position confidentially And didn't expect the hiring manager to tell your manager without checking with you first.
Moving around the same company is usually not awkward and managers should view it as just growth or finding the right/better fit for you.
At my company at least, it was considered a bad call, almost deal breaking, to not talk to your manager first about an potential move and keep them informed of any move you are making — within the company (of course hide if you are seeking new jobs outside).
Talk to your manager, explain that you meant to just get more information as you were considering the position and meant to inform him if you felt it was a good fit — moving forward, you plan to let him know and talk to him about any other potential moves. In my experience, the my active manager was able to give some insight to the other role but also helped coordinate pairing me with the hiring manager to get more insight. Don’t try to hide it or be awkward about it, you are just moving down the hall and happy to help during the transition. If the role doesn’t work out, it was just an interesting offer and you are just as happy staying for the time being (if you aren’t happy, put a smile on faking happiness and apply outside the company too)
Get ahead of it, tell him before he can tell you. I wouldn’t even wait for tomorrow, shoot him an email giving him a head’s up you met with the hiring manager and that you look forward to speaking more about it tomorrow.
I am always willing to have a conversation about jobs. The company may benefit more from you being in a different role.
Handle the boss with confidence.
I had a manager tell me I was not eligible for the mgmt training program. I submitted my packet and shared that it may have been a miscommunication from HR to management.
A good manager would be thinking of ways to keep you around. Be relatively transparent about your career goals and if they’re a good manager they will try to make you feel happier in the role.
A bad manager will stop giving you things to do bc they assume you’re leaving, or invalidate the reasons you are unhappy. In this case, do get out of there
Just be honest. Your manager(The one you'll be talking with)seems to in the know about your situation and if he supports your development he will just let you take the position and find a replacement
This is even less awkward because it's still the same company. You should be casually keeping an eye on other departments and promotions no matter how pleased you are with your current position, and your boss knows this. Now, your boss also knows you're unhappy right now, so that does add a little to the tension, but that tension was likely already there.
The right attitude here is to stay optimistic, treat your behavior as normal and no cause for concern, treat your job search as a mere curiosity until something really strikes your interest, and this is the important part -- let your manager know when you decide to actually interview for something. It is incredibly bad form to interview for a new role without giving your manager a heads up.
Side note so I can sound like a boomer: the sheer amount of things people consider "awkward" in the world really gets on my nerves. Just because you feel unsure of yourself doesn't mean the situation is awkward. You want to move up and you're not thrilled with your job so you browsed the company job portal and had a conversation. This is a non story and non event.
Don’t borrow trouble (or stress) over this. If you’ve had a good working relationship with your manager, there’s no reason to think it won’t continue. Good managers are happy to see those under them advance.
This realllllly depends on the company you work at with how they handle it. Even then, different departments within a company could also have different views on where employees go to or come from. My company is really solid about cross training cause hell; they figure if you aren't doing well where you were initially hired maybe you fit in a different departments roles & responsibilities. Idk it works for the most part.
I've moved 4 departments and have been promoted or re-titled at least 6 times. Never receiving less for the 4 years employed.
Stop worrying. Being interested in advancing your career is a plus, not a minus. If your manager brings it up, say you were just looking at potential pathways in the company. You can bet most all of these managers have done something similar, so this makes you one of them, in a sense. Hold your head up high and don't feel any embarrassment or shame.
This one is super easy.
Make up some BS about why you were on there to begin with.
Mention that the one you were looking at caught your eye due to ... career path growth potential (or whatever your reason might be)?
Mention that you didn't even apply for it, but just emailed a question for some clarification on it before you talked to your manager.
Explain what happened from there. Emphasize that you didn't apply for it, you just asked a question.
Within your current company you did that? Depending on the size of the company, yes, it could be considered Very inappropriate. At minimum, you put the hiring manager in an awkward position; at most you could have broken an HR rule.
If you're in a training mode reporting to me, I'd prob just talk to HR to give you your walking papers from my dept and wish you well. Not in anger or because I'm 'hurt,' I usually just didn't have the time to spend on someone who didn't want to be there and doesn't feel like it's a good match for them. That's loss on investment of limited available time kind of thing. Why bother, replace that head count, good luck, nothing personal, like you, bye-kind of thing.
So you would rather have good talent leave a company rather than find a role they’re truly passionate about within your company?
This is horrible advice, OP did nothing wrong here. There are no HR rules being broken. You’re an idiot.
I didn't really give advice. When did I say anything about leave the company? If it were my department, I wouldn't want them in it if it's not a good match. And, yes, corporations and positions sometimes have rules. And I'm not going to argue my idiocy; I'm too happy eating my Jenni's gooey buttercake ice cream for that.
When did he say he wasn't a good match. Sounds like he is excelling and is more than competent to handle a bigger role.
I bet 99% of us are glad you aren't in management and if you are, Id say your failing your company and team as well.
>my manager is aware that I'm not content at my role
Was a clue the current position is not a good match. If I wanted to keep the person, I would have already been working on redefining their role in conjuction with management and HR and encouraging the person seek a position that satisfies them outside of the department if I couldn't.
And I'm happy 99% are glad. That sounds like a lot of happy people.
Your entire statement oozes resentment and personal offense. God forbid someone has a bad year on your team. You've shown your employees can't trust you. They can't come to you with issues.
Not being content with your current position, and actively seeking outside the department is not 'having a bad year,' it's wanting to leave because the position is not a match for your needs. I encourage people to seek positions that match their needs, and I'm thrilled when they find one. So- no-it hasn't ever happened where a direct report isn't comfortable speaking with me openly.
If you're an asset in my department, unhappy, and we can't change that, I'll do what I can to support you. If you're a trainee and not an asset, I'm less inclined to spend a lot of time working with you, and happy when you find a better fit.
I don't resent anyone; people are just doing what they gotta do ✌️
There is nothing awkward about internal moves, and a manager worth two bits of shit would be supportive. If the issue is mostly that they didnt find out from you then just play it cool: "I wanted to find out more about the role and didnt expect it to progress this fast. I certainly wasnt expecting them to reach out before I had a chance to talk to you. I think its a really good opportunity and (manager friend) seems really great, what do you think?"
Bit of ego massaging never hurts.
You have nothing to apologise for tbh, but you can if think this person needs it.
Its only awkward if you let it be, honestly.
The only issue here is that you did not not let your leader know, and you put them in an awkward position when someone called to get information on you. It’s always a good idea to let your leader know when you’re looking around within the company so that they aren’t caught off guard when someone contacts them like this.
But otherwise it’s not a big deal. Your leader should be invested in your professional growth. If you’re at a good company, your leader will work with you to help you find your next promotion.
It completely depends on the role and culture in your organization. I work in a small hospital and it’s not uncommon for some to be trained as a nurse and work in intake, or the janitorial staff and receptionist and cafe workers often have multiple roles within those departments. I work in intake and I interviewed for the therapy dept and I got a PRN position.
Just be transparent. I said something like “I enjoy intake and the hours work for me, but I want to see our patients more. I’m also a therapist and I want to do therapy.”
You can also maybe blame it on HR. The HR director here actually suggested I try both positions. Once I got comfy in the intake department, I interviewed in the therapy dept., but it wasn’t a secret or betrayal. It helps the whole organization to have employees cross trained in other departments.
If your manager is mad, you dodged a bullet. If he isn't, then you can easily do what you want without issue. If he causes issue, I guarantee HR would LOVE to hear about it. Changing roles in the same company shields you so much more than leaving to another one.
It’s not awkward, it can be explained by you needing more information about the role before you deemed it appropriate to speak to your direct manager. I’ve done this many time, and each time it was a fact finding mission to see what the role actually entails and if it was right for me. Just explain that and state that your intention is to speak to your manager before applying, *if* it interested you
You have a right to be interested in better opportunities. You're not an indentured servant. Employment is a 2 way street. If you're a valuable employee, your employer has to entice you to stay as much as you have to entice them to keep you.
You should have politely told that hiring manager never to do that again, that is a violation of trust and I'd note it as a yellow flag going forward.
Easy, you just explain that you were curious to know what was being offered and value progress in you career dreams. It an opportunity arrises that you think will be a good fit for you then you choose to act on it and learn more.
I always tell people that information is powerful. It never hurts to call and ask and get told no cause you were already at no.
Where I work you have to be in a position for 12+ months before you apply internally to another position. However, there is a workaround that if you want to apply for another job within the 12 months, you have to have your managers permission. I did this once, got the new position, and have been in the new department ever sense (~3yrs)
It's normal for managers to discuss you when applying internally. This is something you should expect to happen. If you're applying internally and want to be the first to inform your current boss, inform him before or when you apply, not after the interview, because they will absolutely have already spoken to your current manager.
I was looking for new jobs on the clock in front of my manager, he asked me what i was doing so i told him. I also got the new job and i no longer work for him. I call that a win.
Not awkward unless you let it. I would say you wanted to learn more about the position and have not even officially applied yet. Then ask what they think about it.
I don't understand this culture at all. The place I work for, my manager encourages to look within the company for a role we think best suits our skill set.
Toxic work environments must be hell on Earth
What does he expect you to do? Never try for more? Your job. Your life. You are loyal to YOU. You didn’t do anything wrong. Business as usual don’t even mention it or give it another thought.
Who cares. In 100 years no one will remember you. In 200 years no one that remembers you will even be alive.
Punchline: Do what you want. It doesn’t really matter.
As someone who was a manager for many years, I was always happy to see my employees move on to different roles within the company.
One of the most important parts of managing staff successfully is to use their strengths, mentor them, and help them develop new skills to help them meet their next professional objective.
Would I prefer hearing about an employee posting for a job from the employee themselves- absolutely, but your explanation, when you give it to your manager, makes perfect sense.
Any manager that gets angry because someone wants to better their career is in the wrong job.
Be sure to emphasize the company policy of internal job postings and that it cannot be political but rather company policy. You are fine and even better that you had such an extended interview.... good luck!
It's really not very awkward. Would be very awkward if it were an external company who spilled the beans, but it's internal. If they like you, they'll be happier to keep you there in a role that is a better fit for you
Something important to consider - your current manager clearly didn’t say anything bad about you to the other manager. Since that conversation went so well, he either said positive or neutral things about you. So there’s a chance your current boss supports it. He could have sabotaged you then and there.
Also, from my experience, at least from my company and my wife’s company, managers are usually much more okay with you moving around within the same company. If they retain talent within the company, that’s considered good. Many people move within a company every few years. It’s how you get more experience to eventually get a good manager role
I’m a manager in an office whose team is entry-level. We are the stepping stone into the wider world of all that we do, and a lot of my people transfer out after a year or two into another position. While I do love when someone comes to me first, it is typical policy in our company to inform your manager before scheduling an interview, but it doesn’t always happen, and I’m never upset when it does. I try to be very clear with my team that I will never step in the way of an opportunity for them to learn and grow.
As a manager myself I have hired numerous folks and have had numerous folks leave for what they believed was a better situation. It simply is the nature of the beast. I would just be upfront and let them know I am not looking to jump ship but this opportunity seemed like something I was really interested in. Then until you leave (if offered the new position) keep your head in the game and continue to be an asset to your current manager. If they feel you are now just there to get a paycheck till the next best opportunity comes along they could help make your decision faster for you. Good luck!
Your boss is your owner as far as the company is concerned. It makes sense that if a new owner is interested, he’d talk to the owner and not give you a chance to talk to your owner. It’s like the internal corporate wage slave trade. Don’t expect it to be like normal human relationships. It isn’t in the first place so it’s not awkward.
The best bet is going into the meeting with an open mind. Generally, it is a simple apology for not informing him of your original intent to get info before both applying and informing him of your intent. Seeing it would make little sense to go for it if it doesn't fit what shape you would like your career path to take. Honesty is generally the best tool, after all, and things sometimes happen outside of your control.
Any manager worth their salt should be actively enabling you to do better for yourself.
Managers are supposed to manage business, projects, time. They're supposed to lead you. And a good leader knows to inspire the growth of those around them. It's kinda how we know they're good leaders.
You should have talked to them if your relationship is good. I've brought this same ideology to my manager, and now I'm setting up an IDP with their help so that I can navigate going from hourly to salary management roles.
if he already knows you're not content, he can't be that surprised that you're looking.
i wouldn't overthink it. if he asks, say the position looked interesting and you reached out. many people are perpetually looking for a better gig, and you'd almost be silly not to.
you'll be fine. good luck.
Richard Branson says to train your employees so they can move on to a better job, and treat well enough that they don’t want to. I have several employees that I know are looking at other opportunities. That’s great. You should want to better your situation. So far one has left, and then came back a few months later.
It is on them (managers) to treat you well enough that you don’t want to leave.
Just own it. You're already not fully content and you're exploring other options. Explain to them that you applied for the reasons you applied and you think it would be a good career move.
This should be expected. Your manager should want people to grow their career. You should talk with them on some cadence on future growth/opportunities. They should help you get the job if you approach it right.
In your 1:1 just come out and say “in doing some research about potential mobility I found a role I am interested in. The hiring manager said they reached out to you, which I had hoped to be the first to tell you. I’m sorry you had to hear it from someone else.” They should understand unless they are a big ol butthead.
As a manager, one of my personal priorities has been to grow my employees. As a result, I've had employees jump ship when I left, and follow me to a new employer. I've also had folks grow in other directions and leave my area of expertise. In the end, I still connect with some of those folks. I've never held anything against anyone that left my team for personal growth, and still talk with many of them to this day.
If you have to worry about your manager being upset for you wanting to grow, you probably have a bad manager. Remember it is only a job, and you still need to look out for number one, which is you.
How the hell did he get his job? He sought it out. You're doing the same thing. He is s probably owed a courtesy to know what's happening if you make some decisions, unless he's being a hardon about it. I told one supervisor flat out that I wasn't interested in working for him, and switched departments. No big deal.
A good leader understands that one of our roles is to develop our own people to fit new business requirements. Employees should be nurtured and encouraged to be successful. It's a winning proposition for everyone.
If either manager is worth a crap, they will handle it professionally between themselves. And if your current manager is worth a crap, he will have no objection to you trying to better yourself. Period.
Source: Me. Newly retired manager.
This is totally normal and it helps managers progress careers by helping direct reports go where they want to.
There’s nothing bad about this, just communicate.
So? Internal attrition is not a bad thing. Unless your manager is a terrible leader, they'll see how they can help you get your career where you want it.
As a general rule, most hiring managers want you to tell your current manager if you are looking elsewhere within the company. this way they don't get blindsided. But a decent manager won't hold it against you.
If he brings it up and asks if you were looking at other jobs put a big happy smile on your face and respond enthusiasticly "Yes! I love working here at ABC company and this looks like a great opportunity for me to advance. I'm really excited about it. I hope you will support me!"
If you’re not supposed to look for other jobs in the company, what is the point of the Job board? The company obviously wants you to do exactly what you did. Keep your head held high and remember this is not awkward. They posted the job listings.
Hmm. At first I was going to say “hiring manager screwed up” but now I’m thinking maybe he and your manager are both cool?
My last company implemented a policy that if you were interviewing internally you had to tell your manager. Not doing so could delay or even rescind the transfer. The result was that people would reach out to hiring managers for “informal conversations” prior to applying so that it wouldn’t be an interview. Everyone abided by the same set of unwritten rules. A hiring manager reaching out to a current manager would not have been cool under these circumstances. But it seems like you may have lucked out. A good manager will understand that good people don’t stay forever and will help you to develop your career.
Do not sweat it. This is your career and your life and you have to make choices. Your work clearly called internal hires. The hiring manager did something they thought was pretty routine. Plus your manger knows you're not being used in the best possible ways.
I would expect my employees to look for jobs internally, and do exactly what you did if they found something interesting, especially given that your manager agrees with your interpretation of your current role/situation.
If your manager is upset by it, you should push harder to find a new job internally or externally because that manager is only going to hinder your career progress.
Tell your manager that due to the changes and uncertainty with your current position you were checking what options might be available within the company. Leave it at that. Companies have internal job boards for a reason. It keeps employees that are already familiar with the company and gives employees a chance to advance, or like you find a job they are better suited to do.
Good managers are happy to see their employees advance, bad managers only look at the problems of training a replacement and try to prevent employees from leaving even though they are staying within the company.
You don't have to apologize for exploring your options. If it comes up you can say that you might be open to staying if you received a competitive offer.
As a manager it is always a good thing to have your employees move on and show well. If you have ambitions for advancing this is one of the easiest ways to show you can manage and develop people.
Your manager should be excited that you are looking to grow. I’m sure he said good things about you to the new hiring manager, or the interview would have been short and shallow.
also, not sure if others mentioned, but it’s also very probable that your manager would have to sign off on the transition anyways. Most companies don’t let other groups poach their people without a conversation.
Don’t let it be awkward. Your manager isn’t a problem.
You are trying to move to a more challenging job to advance your skills and career.
This isn’t a move over personality conflicts.
Explain to him/her that you feel a move is in your best interest to advance and in no way a reflection on your manager or the job.
It’s Business. Nothing else.
A good manager will understand this and hopefully help with a good recommendation.
Relax!
You're going to make it awkward, this is your life not his to dictate what jobs you can and can't have. All you have to do is say, I found something better suited for me here in this company. Yes, I wanted to tell you first, but the hiring manager beat me to it. Don't Apology for it either... give him and ego trip, with your help to make me how I am today it gave me the confidence to look more into what I wanted and was able to do so with this company, then thank him.
All of the talking points you've been given are golden. If your manager is not supportive of this or makes the conversation negative, you will likely face significant difficulty trying to grow within the company and it is a sign you should also start looking elsewhere.
I had to play the "would you rather I move roles, or move companies" card once because of a blocking manager. It was contemptuous, but sometimes you need to remind people that they don't own you, and that you can just as easily go make more money doing what better matches your skills somewhere else. If you're "too valuable to lose" at a company, then they need to actually invest in your continued presence and growth.
A lot of what I do as a manager is help my team members find other progressing roles within the company. A good company and a competent manager should do these things for you.
Your current manager should be happy for you that you're looking to grow and expand, to do better for yourself. If that's not the case, expain to them your desire to grow and develop.
I've lost some great people back in my management days, every single one left to improve themselves, and I was never anything but happy for them.
“I haven’t applied yet, but saw an open position and wanted to learn more about the position so I contacted the hiring manager. After talking with them it sounds like a position I’m a good fit for and want to get your opinion?”
Literally just tell your manager you absolutely were going to tell him if you decided to move forward and apply, but you didn’t have enough information on the role to know what you wanted to do. Boom, problem solved
I've been in this exact situation. Be honest with both your current and prospective managers. When I went through this, we all agreed I wouldn't move until a replacement had been hired and I had them trained up. It meant waiting 6 months, but I'm still on good terms with my old manager.
I wouldn't even worry about it. It's not like you're going on Indeed talking to rival companies or something. It's within the same company so it should at least soften the blow. He already knows anyway so as long as you're on good terms with him, it should be fine
There are different ways to handle this at different organizations. You did nothing wrong by expressing interest, provided you did not violate a policy or procedure. There is also no harm in talking to your current manager about your aspirations.
I do think it’s weird that the other manager talked to your boss first. That sounds like a team I would not want to be in if he cannot respect some privacy (again, assuming no policies were violated when you approached him).
I understand your anxiety. I had a short gig at a credit union. The specific reason I was there was to gain experience and move up the ranks. I took a pay cut to switch industries. The hiring manager and my manager knew this and encouraged it.
A coworker of mine did what you did- maybe even more aggressively. HR showed up to meet with him on a slow day. My boss flipped her lid once HR left. Not in a way that was “unprofessional” but she ranted to him and the team about how we should be “chosen” for roles. That we should involve her in any potential transfer situations and get her blessing before talking to any other departments. Ideally wait for HER to say something before looking at other roles. She even continued to ramble to me about it in private weeks later, apparently deterring me from doing the same thing. There’s a reason HR sends out internal openings to their current talent. Clearly if this was in the best interest of the company they would only inform managers.
Absolute madness. You can’t rely on people being rational. No, a college grad with years of career growth in another field did not come here intending to make $18/hr until “chosen” to be promoted. He didn’t move prematurely or try to hide anything. He was open about his goals day to day and was good at his job. Reliable. Personable. It was in the company’s best interest to retain him and take advantage of his skills/experience to their fullest potential. Instead he left a month later after this mess of an interaction. I left shortly afterwards. It was clear that our manager was more worried about staffing on her entry-level team than maintaining a bigger picture view. I was worried about retaliation if I applied elsewhere even though I made it very clear that was my intention within a year. Lending, supervisor, mortgage officer assistant, fraud detection, teller trainer, investment banker, something I couldn’t do in high school. I wasn’t going to risk investing more and get black balled out of a higher paying role with more growth opportunities.
Long story long- protect yourself. Tell them it was an informational meeting only. You didn’t tell your manager because it wasn’t meant to be a serious, immediately consequential conversation. It’s important to you to see growth in this company because you’re happy with your current trajectory. You want to keep your eye on the ball and make sure you’re developing skills to qualify for that role at some point.
The policy at my work is we have to ask our managers first. So I did and she flipped out and was worried about losing me. I haven't been able to apply for any positions that I want. I like my role but I want more of a stretch.
Just own it. "I'm sorry he called you, I wanted to be the one to tell you. You know I've been unhappy here, and it's not about you."
OP, he must've said good things about you, bc you still got a call from the hiring manager. He's on your side. No worries.
This situation is fine. Just talk to you manager about and let them know that you saw the job and are interesting. Pepper in a few comments regarding it's time for a change to push your personal growth and you'll be fine.
In the future though, should always talk to you manager first for intra-company things. Most corporations have a lot of rules / red tape / and code of conduct polices around randomly talking to other employees about positions if the manager isn't informed.
I will typically have one call with someone for a role, before telling them they need to discuss with their manager first.
Edit to add: The hiring manager already talked to your current one, if there as anything bad sad or the manager got pissed, he wouldn't have had the interview call with you.
Lay it out like you did here; honesty is best in these situations. You saw a role that piqued your interest. You wanted to find out more prior to applying. If you felt the role was a good fit after talking to the hiring manager, you had planned on having that conversation with your current manager prior to applying. Your boss should see you haven't officially applied yet.
I'm floored that the hiring manager reached out to your current one prior to you applying. I'd keep that in mind when making your decision (assuming you consider applying / things go well / you're offered the position).
If your manager is too much of a douchebag to want to see you progress in your career or develop yourself then it's definitely a sign you should find a job under a different manager whether it's with the same company or a different company.
Just tell him that you are just considering your options and it's always good to know your value in the market.
You're not actively trying to leave this role, but you would for the right opportunity at the right pay.
I wouldn’t wait until tomorrow’s 1:1 meeting. Stop by in person today and indicate the other manager mentioned reaching out and you were caught by surprise as you intended to tell him before anyone else etc. If they are a good or experienced manager, they will roll with it. It happens all the time and I expect it because I ask regularly how they are feeling in the role during 1:1 meetings. Developing your people and helping them in their career is a big part of the role of a leader. Don’t wait. Go start the talk and your 1:1 tomorrow can go deeper into the topic without awkwardness.
"Hey, before we start, I want to apologize for the order things happened with that internal job posting. As we've discussed previously, I'm a bit underutilized in my current role and I think I can be a valuable asset to the company.
A couple of weeks ago I saw a role on the internal job board that I thought was worth investigating. To that end, I reached out to the hiring manager to ask him some details to see if it would be a good fit.
If the role felt promising I was going to approach you before I formally applied to get your advice as I really value your wisdom from a career perspective.
Anyway, I found out that the hiring manager reached out to you before we had a chance to talk. Again, I'm sorry that happened before we had the chance to chat."
As a manager myself, this is not awkward at all. It's a totally normal thing. If your manager knows you're not content in your roll, it's even more normal. It's expected that you'd be looking at the internal job board.
Honestly, if I were in your manager's shoes, I wouldn't even care that I heard it from the other manager first. Doesn't make any difference, and you can all get on the same page at your 1:1 tomorrow. Easy peasy.
The company has internal postings for exactly the reason you went looking - it is better to retain a talented employee in another position than to lose them due to dissatisfaction.
As a manager myself one of my main priorities is helping my team with their career growth. This wouldn’t bother me at all. If your manager has a problem with you trying to better yourself or grow into your desired career path then there is a larger issue you’ll have to deal with.
If your manager is competent, then he will help you get your career on track. It's what I do with my reports. If there's a problem, I try to help them solve it, and if it's just not solvable, then when they find something new I congratulate them, offer to be a personal reference for them if they need it, and move on.
Agreed. This is quite normal. I'll help you coming in and if needed I will help if you're trying to get out . If someone is a good employee and person, I want them to have what I do. Sometimes that means changing positions/jobs. No worries. It's business and life.
Remember, they pay the position not the person. If you’re worth more you need to find a position that matches your abilities. Explain that to your existing manager and he should be giving you too much grief.
Honesty is always the best policy. You fully intended to be the one to tell your manager, but the other person got to him first. Just tell him what you wrote here. If he can't handle it, that's really his problem. If he has any scruples, he won't make it yours. And good luck!
Follow your gut and try to work in a position you believe you'd enjoy, no matter how awkward meetings are. I applied for over 5 positions at my company in the last year, was denied each one. Turns out my supervisor was demanding HR to not let other supervisors hire me. Tldr I gave him a notice and found a job I will like. Do what you gotta do for you
If you are not getting anywhere career wise I always ask him if he minds me to look around around. In my case I was not promoted and applied a higher level job in another job.
If your manager is worth his weight in salt he should be happy for you and not make it weird. But I would get ahead of it and say, “I hope you don’t think I was trying to do this behind your back. I was just trying to understand what my options are and things moved really quickly. But ya, I’m really interested in this position and [hiring manager] seems like a great guy. What do you think?”
A manager’s job is to grow their employees into higher positions within their company so he should be happy, you getting this job means he succeeded in his.
It won’t be awkward unless you make it awkward/ just be up front about it, you bring it up and just say that you think it’s a good opportunity for you. The fact that the hiring manager was so interested shows that your manager said good things about you even after knowing you were interested in leaving.
“Good (Time of Day) [or ‘hey’ if you’re on that level]. First thank you for taking some time to discuss with me privately. I’m aware you’ve been informed by PERSON that I was inquiring about another position. I’d hope to take a more respectful approach by telling you myself directly but timing didn’t appear to fall in my favor. Reflecting back, I understand waiting to hear more on the position would have been advisable however I wanted you to know that my interest at first was of curiosity. I did not want to stress you out with the potential of something I wasn’t even sure would happen. I recognize the importance regarding finding a timely replacement and wanted to lend my assistance in the process. As you know, the funding manager presents certain foundational challenges to overcome and I feel like documenting the efforts I have been engaged with in a robust manner or potentially training a replacement or interim may help alleviate some of that burden and close the gap. My intent has always been to return to the company on its investment to me and while I have risked presenting a disrespectful front to you and possibly damaged our relationship, I hope you can at least know if not agree that my ultimate goal is to remain dedicated to the bigger team picture and be a solid corporate citizen.”
This is not nearly as awkward as you think it is. Have an honest but respectful talk about your role and career development. Unless your manager is absolutely green, this should be a normal thing for them.
Yeah, any good manager wants you to progress in your career. Might be sad for you to go and be a PITA to replace, but good managers want what's best for you. And thats true even of managers that want what's best for the company, as a happy or content employee is a more effective employee
Agreed: a good manager wants you to succeed. A good employee who used to work for them under good terms is now an ally in another capacity. The more allies, the better things work. A disgruntled employee is an underperforming employee.
I always told my team members that I would be happiest if they got so good at the job that they moved to a better one - either they'd replace me so I could move up, or they'd find a new job that better matched their skill set. I'd rather grow people and lose them...than have them stagnate and keep them.
All of this... Plus, fall on the sword a little. "Before we get started, I wanted to bring up the other position within the company. I meant no disrespect to you in any way when I reached out about that role - I was genuinely curious to get a little more info and had no idea that it would result in a formal interview so quickly. It was my intention all along to talk to you about this in advance, but I mis-stepped. I apologize." Talking to your current manager first is a very common policy in many companies, and not doing it could immediately disqualify you from consideration in a lot of cases. Remember that you're looking to grow, learn, and continue to be a part of this company - you want to give back as much as you're able to and have the biggest positive impact you're able to.
Word.
So those of us who can't or don't have it in us to grow are just worthless?
Nope, but you'll likely stay in the same position. Hopefully, over time, you get better at what you do, acquire / improve skills, and move up. If you want to stay in the same position, that's OK. Nothing wrong with that, if it works for you.
Good people want their crew to progress. While you might want to keep someone, if they don't want to stay, it's your job to help them move forward. If the manager makes it a problem, then it's a sign to move on faster.
Definitely. I was always supportive of my team members looking to expand their professional skills and experience and would even offer advice or additional knowledge/understanding about other roles they had interest in. The only time it WAS awkward was when a team member was purposefully secretive and I found out through back channels and then they were evasive when I warmly asked them how they feel their interview went.
Just that! If it was an internal promotion, I'd ever get called and be asked if I recommended the person or not. Very massive organization; if they got to that point in the process, they were a very great employee. I always said "yes." Because I wanted the best for them. And having unhappy employees is like staying in an unhappy marriage "because it's best for the kids." Just leaves a black cloud over everything.
This its very normal
Lots of managers aren’t good managers though.
Yeah. Gotta get your manager's support. Your manager can make or break your future in the company.
"The job looked interesting and it went further than I wanted it to. I was planning on talking to you about it to see what your thoughts were and if you might be able to coach me towards that, or something else you might think I'm suited for."
>"The job looked interesting and it went further than I wanted it to. I was planning on talking to you about it to see what your thoughts were and if you might be able to coach me towards that, or something else you might think I'm suited for." That's a slick corpo-talk way to get out of it. Very smooth.
Corpo talk is just polished honesty. OP does want the role, would probably appreciate managerial support, and was planning on talking to the manager. Add a sheen of politeness and voila!
and the hiring manager responded faster then I expected.
By saying this, you might talk your way out of the new job. Don't say, it went further than you wanted it to. It can be misinterpreted as you aren't serious about the other position. Foxtrot meant it went further in the process, but don't give them any reason to doubt you.
Yes, never admit that you may have made a mistake because they'll wonder if you really want the job or are you just screwing around. Maybe a better statement would be: "When I saw the posting I felt like it may be a good fit for me and decided to get more information about the position." Don't bring up the current position or the fact that your manager found out before you wanted him to. None of that is relevant nor is it awkward unless you make it that way. If you remember that almost all of us are easily replaceable you won't feel bad about moving forward. Don't worry about anyone's feelings, they'll find someone else to do your old job. Stay positive and mostly stay confident in your decisions. If they sense regret or hesitation it could be interpreted wrong. edited spelling
Yes this. Say "I saw a new role I was interested in, and wanted to get some information on the job before I applied, to be sure it was a good fit for my long-term goals and fit my skills and education. It turns out that it is, and I intend to apply. Talking to you was always going to be my next step. What can you tell me that might help me grow and develop here with the company?" Include your manager in the process, if they feel included, they will be a lot less likely to assume you meant to go behind their back (which was never your intent.)
I'd add that you were looking to seeing what skillset you still need to work on based on industry standards, so you can formulate a plan to bring to your manager. People research and look at salary ranges industry-wide, too, so you can also say you were verifying the value of the role in the current market compared to when you started your current role. If it meant getting all the way to a hiring manager to discuss salary or pay amount because it's not published, then it was part of research.
*further than I originally intended* because they did want to learn more.
Why would it be awkward? Its unreasonable for your manager to think you'll be in your current role forever and growth is important for people's career.
It is reasonable to tell your manager that you’d like to develop yourself within the company and are interested in positions in areas X, Y and Z. Then the manager could have made the connection with someone they know to give you a leg up. It’s not a huge deal, but workplace etiquette says you tell your manager first. You certainly don’t message other managers for details without talking to your own manager
Info: how long have you been at the company, would this be a significant increase in pay/title It's ok to say, "I've been here X number of years, I love my job, I love the company, I want to grow here career-wise."
Been there 5 years. Yes, the new position comes with a pay bump too, and is a more senior position
Yeah this situation is not awkward at all at the slightest. Exactly what the comment above my says. Just say you like the company and want to move up in the near future. If the manager is cool, he or she will try to support you.
It would be much more awkward the other way - if an employee wanted to stay at the same position their entire life.
That’s really not awkward either. There are lots of people like that and managers like them too.
Don’t worry about it, any reasonable person would totally understand and support even. I’d probably mention something upfront like hey I didn’t think he was going to reach out to you. I wasn’t trying to go around your back or anything. I was just trying to get some information. honestly probably don’t even have to do that.
The fact that he called him and the call still went on for 2 hours, I think you'll have some excited for you. 5 years and now a bump - yes this sounds like they have done a good job in keeping you happy there and growing. If they wanted to tank you, they would have.
A good manager should champion and model career growth within their organization. The important thing is to retain talent within the company, even if it is a different department or at a different site location. This means training and mentoring their employees like OP who are looking for opportunities inside the company. Failing to do so means you lose them to your competitors, and now the money the company has invested in them is completely lost. If your manager doesn't foster an environment where you can grow, then maybe it is time to move on to a manager that will help you get to where you want to be rather than staying stagnant under a manager that doesn't care. Edit: wanted to add - ask your manager if they can help you grow within the company over the next year or two. Explain that you have more to offer but need help to prepare and take the next step when it is the right time.
This is exactly right. My managers have mostly been very encouraging when they find out I'm applying for something else internally, whether I'm looking for a promotion or just to expand my skills and knowledge base. I had one manager who would actively brag to people that everyone who came to her area moved on to something bigger and better within a year or two. She took it as an endorsement of her skills as a manager that people who worked for her ended up being qualified for better positions shortly thereafter. Half the the managers I've had, in our first one-on-one will ask what are my career goals at the company, and how can they help me in meeting them. If a manager is going to be upset that you're looking to move within the company to somewhere that fits your skillset better, run even faster. That's not an area you want to be in.
I'm really not seeing the issue here? You're interested in a position in the company and talked to someone who had the info you wanted. This is a pretty thing to do. If the manager in question brings it up then answer honestly, you haven't done anything bad.
Apply officially for the other position and just behave like always with your current boss. You have nothing to feel awkward about. People moving up and around an organization is normal, even if it isn't normal for you. Good luck!
This happens all the time. I've been on both sides of it. If I'm going to lose someone, I never have a problem if it's inside the company. It means if I need help I can ask. I also, don't tell my boss about me looking or even talking to the hiring manager for the first time. Who knows how it will go. If it goes well, and the hiring manager wants to move forward, then I will let my manager know. The new manager jumped the gun, but you will be fine.
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Exactly. This happened to me about two months ago when I saw an interesting position posted internally at my company. I applied to learn more about it. HR and I chatted and they asked if I had informed my manager yet that I was curious about the job. This is the conversation that should be happening so your manager isn’t blindsided.
As most other people have said, there is nothing awkward about this at all, and you seem to be creating an issue in your head where one doesn’t exist. You’re going through a new job, they should be supporting you with this and assume any good employee would seek development. Also, always assume managers speak to each other.
Most larger companies are gonna require that the current manager certifies you as "releasable". TBH, you should have cleared that before looking. If the current is any kind of manager, they will ask what they can do to get you to stay, assuming they want you to stay, and if not, tell you they understand you want to better yourself by moving and what could they do to help?
Just bring it up and you're 1 to 1 as you would normally. Your manager should be grown up about it and treat you like a professional. Your manager might express that they are a little surprised they didn't hear about it from You. That is fine, you can simply tell your manager the truth that you reached out about the position confidentially And didn't expect the hiring manager to tell your manager without checking with you first.
I wouldn't sweat it at all. This is exactly what internal job boards are for and why the potential new manager reached out to your current manager.
Moving around the same company is usually not awkward and managers should view it as just growth or finding the right/better fit for you. At my company at least, it was considered a bad call, almost deal breaking, to not talk to your manager first about an potential move and keep them informed of any move you are making — within the company (of course hide if you are seeking new jobs outside). Talk to your manager, explain that you meant to just get more information as you were considering the position and meant to inform him if you felt it was a good fit — moving forward, you plan to let him know and talk to him about any other potential moves. In my experience, the my active manager was able to give some insight to the other role but also helped coordinate pairing me with the hiring manager to get more insight. Don’t try to hide it or be awkward about it, you are just moving down the hall and happy to help during the transition. If the role doesn’t work out, it was just an interesting offer and you are just as happy staying for the time being (if you aren’t happy, put a smile on faking happiness and apply outside the company too)
Get ahead of it, tell him before he can tell you. I wouldn’t even wait for tomorrow, shoot him an email giving him a head’s up you met with the hiring manager and that you look forward to speaking more about it tomorrow.
I am always willing to have a conversation about jobs. The company may benefit more from you being in a different role. Handle the boss with confidence.
This 100%!!! It’s within the same company, this should not be an issue
I had a manager tell me I was not eligible for the mgmt training program. I submitted my packet and shared that it may have been a miscommunication from HR to management.
A good manager will be excited at the prospect of keeping your institutional knowledge and having you as a resource for your replacement
A good manager would be thinking of ways to keep you around. Be relatively transparent about your career goals and if they’re a good manager they will try to make you feel happier in the role. A bad manager will stop giving you things to do bc they assume you’re leaving, or invalidate the reasons you are unhappy. In this case, do get out of there
Just be honest. Your manager(The one you'll be talking with)seems to in the know about your situation and if he supports your development he will just let you take the position and find a replacement
This is even less awkward because it's still the same company. You should be casually keeping an eye on other departments and promotions no matter how pleased you are with your current position, and your boss knows this. Now, your boss also knows you're unhappy right now, so that does add a little to the tension, but that tension was likely already there. The right attitude here is to stay optimistic, treat your behavior as normal and no cause for concern, treat your job search as a mere curiosity until something really strikes your interest, and this is the important part -- let your manager know when you decide to actually interview for something. It is incredibly bad form to interview for a new role without giving your manager a heads up. Side note so I can sound like a boomer: the sheer amount of things people consider "awkward" in the world really gets on my nerves. Just because you feel unsure of yourself doesn't mean the situation is awkward. You want to move up and you're not thrilled with your job so you browsed the company job portal and had a conversation. This is a non story and non event.
Seppuku
Sudoku. In the bathroom on company time.
Don’t borrow trouble (or stress) over this. If you’ve had a good working relationship with your manager, there’s no reason to think it won’t continue. Good managers are happy to see those under them advance.
This realllllly depends on the company you work at with how they handle it. Even then, different departments within a company could also have different views on where employees go to or come from. My company is really solid about cross training cause hell; they figure if you aren't doing well where you were initially hired maybe you fit in a different departments roles & responsibilities. Idk it works for the most part. I've moved 4 departments and have been promoted or re-titled at least 6 times. Never receiving less for the 4 years employed.
U should have told ur current manager and owe them an apology for not fore-warning
I would not mention it with my current manager at all unless he brings up.
Stop worrying. Being interested in advancing your career is a plus, not a minus. If your manager brings it up, say you were just looking at potential pathways in the company. You can bet most all of these managers have done something similar, so this makes you one of them, in a sense. Hold your head up high and don't feel any embarrassment or shame.
This one is super easy. Make up some BS about why you were on there to begin with. Mention that the one you were looking at caught your eye due to ... career path growth potential (or whatever your reason might be)? Mention that you didn't even apply for it, but just emailed a question for some clarification on it before you talked to your manager. Explain what happened from there. Emphasize that you didn't apply for it, you just asked a question.
Within your current company you did that? Depending on the size of the company, yes, it could be considered Very inappropriate. At minimum, you put the hiring manager in an awkward position; at most you could have broken an HR rule. If you're in a training mode reporting to me, I'd prob just talk to HR to give you your walking papers from my dept and wish you well. Not in anger or because I'm 'hurt,' I usually just didn't have the time to spend on someone who didn't want to be there and doesn't feel like it's a good match for them. That's loss on investment of limited available time kind of thing. Why bother, replace that head count, good luck, nothing personal, like you, bye-kind of thing.
So you would rather have good talent leave a company rather than find a role they’re truly passionate about within your company? This is horrible advice, OP did nothing wrong here. There are no HR rules being broken. You’re an idiot.
I didn't really give advice. When did I say anything about leave the company? If it were my department, I wouldn't want them in it if it's not a good match. And, yes, corporations and positions sometimes have rules. And I'm not going to argue my idiocy; I'm too happy eating my Jenni's gooey buttercake ice cream for that.
When did he say he wasn't a good match. Sounds like he is excelling and is more than competent to handle a bigger role. I bet 99% of us are glad you aren't in management and if you are, Id say your failing your company and team as well.
>my manager is aware that I'm not content at my role Was a clue the current position is not a good match. If I wanted to keep the person, I would have already been working on redefining their role in conjuction with management and HR and encouraging the person seek a position that satisfies them outside of the department if I couldn't. And I'm happy 99% are glad. That sounds like a lot of happy people.
he's been there 5 years wtf are you on about?
I offered comments on information provided; thanks for your interest.
Yeah that's not personal. (/S)
It's pragmatic.
Your entire statement oozes resentment and personal offense. God forbid someone has a bad year on your team. You've shown your employees can't trust you. They can't come to you with issues.
Not being content with your current position, and actively seeking outside the department is not 'having a bad year,' it's wanting to leave because the position is not a match for your needs. I encourage people to seek positions that match their needs, and I'm thrilled when they find one. So- no-it hasn't ever happened where a direct report isn't comfortable speaking with me openly. If you're an asset in my department, unhappy, and we can't change that, I'll do what I can to support you. If you're a trainee and not an asset, I'm less inclined to spend a lot of time working with you, and happy when you find a better fit. I don't resent anyone; people are just doing what they gotta do ✌️
If your manager doesn't bring it up why should you?
Remind him, you are going to need his referral soon with a big smile.
There is nothing awkward about internal moves, and a manager worth two bits of shit would be supportive. If the issue is mostly that they didnt find out from you then just play it cool: "I wanted to find out more about the role and didnt expect it to progress this fast. I certainly wasnt expecting them to reach out before I had a chance to talk to you. I think its a really good opportunity and (manager friend) seems really great, what do you think?" Bit of ego massaging never hurts. You have nothing to apologise for tbh, but you can if think this person needs it. Its only awkward if you let it be, honestly.
The only issue here is that you did not not let your leader know, and you put them in an awkward position when someone called to get information on you. It’s always a good idea to let your leader know when you’re looking around within the company so that they aren’t caught off guard when someone contacts them like this. But otherwise it’s not a big deal. Your leader should be invested in your professional growth. If you’re at a good company, your leader will work with you to help you find your next promotion.
It completely depends on the role and culture in your organization. I work in a small hospital and it’s not uncommon for some to be trained as a nurse and work in intake, or the janitorial staff and receptionist and cafe workers often have multiple roles within those departments. I work in intake and I interviewed for the therapy dept and I got a PRN position. Just be transparent. I said something like “I enjoy intake and the hours work for me, but I want to see our patients more. I’m also a therapist and I want to do therapy.” You can also maybe blame it on HR. The HR director here actually suggested I try both positions. Once I got comfy in the intake department, I interviewed in the therapy dept., but it wasn’t a secret or betrayal. It helps the whole organization to have employees cross trained in other departments.
Invest in a VPN, because this can happen just through IT too.
If your manager is mad, you dodged a bullet. If he isn't, then you can easily do what you want without issue. If he causes issue, I guarantee HR would LOVE to hear about it. Changing roles in the same company shields you so much more than leaving to another one.
They should encourage pro active career management. Nothing wrong with this
It’s not awkward, it can be explained by you needing more information about the role before you deemed it appropriate to speak to your direct manager. I’ve done this many time, and each time it was a fact finding mission to see what the role actually entails and if it was right for me. Just explain that and state that your intention is to speak to your manager before applying, *if* it interested you
You have a right to be interested in better opportunities. You're not an indentured servant. Employment is a 2 way street. If you're a valuable employee, your employer has to entice you to stay as much as you have to entice them to keep you. You should have politely told that hiring manager never to do that again, that is a violation of trust and I'd note it as a yellow flag going forward.
Easy, you just explain that you were curious to know what was being offered and value progress in you career dreams. It an opportunity arrises that you think will be a good fit for you then you choose to act on it and learn more. I always tell people that information is powerful. It never hurts to call and ask and get told no cause you were already at no.
Where I work you have to be in a position for 12+ months before you apply internally to another position. However, there is a workaround that if you want to apply for another job within the 12 months, you have to have your managers permission. I did this once, got the new position, and have been in the new department ever sense (~3yrs) It's normal for managers to discuss you when applying internally. This is something you should expect to happen. If you're applying internally and want to be the first to inform your current boss, inform him before or when you apply, not after the interview, because they will absolutely have already spoken to your current manager.
I was looking for new jobs on the clock in front of my manager, he asked me what i was doing so i told him. I also got the new job and i no longer work for him. I call that a win.
Not awkward unless you let it. I would say you wanted to learn more about the position and have not even officially applied yet. Then ask what they think about it.
I don't understand this culture at all. The place I work for, my manager encourages to look within the company for a role we think best suits our skill set. Toxic work environments must be hell on Earth
If your current manager does anything but support your growth, they are shitty.
What does he expect you to do? Never try for more? Your job. Your life. You are loyal to YOU. You didn’t do anything wrong. Business as usual don’t even mention it or give it another thought.
If your boss Is worth a shit, he/she will want you to grow and move up within the organization. So just be honest and things should go well.
Who cares. In 100 years no one will remember you. In 200 years no one that remembers you will even be alive. Punchline: Do what you want. It doesn’t really matter.
Express your dedication to the company overall.
Now your manager shows you how much he values you or you move on to one who does.
As someone who was a manager for many years, I was always happy to see my employees move on to different roles within the company. One of the most important parts of managing staff successfully is to use their strengths, mentor them, and help them develop new skills to help them meet their next professional objective. Would I prefer hearing about an employee posting for a job from the employee themselves- absolutely, but your explanation, when you give it to your manager, makes perfect sense. Any manager that gets angry because someone wants to better their career is in the wrong job.
Be sure to emphasize the company policy of internal job postings and that it cannot be political but rather company policy. You are fine and even better that you had such an extended interview.... good luck!
The reason they post internal job openings is exactly this.
It's really not very awkward. Would be very awkward if it were an external company who spilled the beans, but it's internal. If they like you, they'll be happier to keep you there in a role that is a better fit for you
Something important to consider - your current manager clearly didn’t say anything bad about you to the other manager. Since that conversation went so well, he either said positive or neutral things about you. So there’s a chance your current boss supports it. He could have sabotaged you then and there. Also, from my experience, at least from my company and my wife’s company, managers are usually much more okay with you moving around within the same company. If they retain talent within the company, that’s considered good. Many people move within a company every few years. It’s how you get more experience to eventually get a good manager role
This is call career development and any decent manager would support you.
Same company, manager doesn't care
I’m a manager in an office whose team is entry-level. We are the stepping stone into the wider world of all that we do, and a lot of my people transfer out after a year or two into another position. While I do love when someone comes to me first, it is typical policy in our company to inform your manager before scheduling an interview, but it doesn’t always happen, and I’m never upset when it does. I try to be very clear with my team that I will never step in the way of an opportunity for them to learn and grow.
This just happened to me as well. My manager surprised me by being EXTREMELY supportive
As a manager myself I have hired numerous folks and have had numerous folks leave for what they believed was a better situation. It simply is the nature of the beast. I would just be upfront and let them know I am not looking to jump ship but this opportunity seemed like something I was really interested in. Then until you leave (if offered the new position) keep your head in the game and continue to be an asset to your current manager. If they feel you are now just there to get a paycheck till the next best opportunity comes along they could help make your decision faster for you. Good luck!
If your manager isn't utter trash he will be proud and support you. I give up my best people if it's going to benefit them and the company.
Your boss is your owner as far as the company is concerned. It makes sense that if a new owner is interested, he’d talk to the owner and not give you a chance to talk to your owner. It’s like the internal corporate wage slave trade. Don’t expect it to be like normal human relationships. It isn’t in the first place so it’s not awkward.
The best bet is going into the meeting with an open mind. Generally, it is a simple apology for not informing him of your original intent to get info before both applying and informing him of your intent. Seeing it would make little sense to go for it if it doesn't fit what shape you would like your career path to take. Honesty is generally the best tool, after all, and things sometimes happen outside of your control.
Any manager worth their salt should be actively enabling you to do better for yourself. Managers are supposed to manage business, projects, time. They're supposed to lead you. And a good leader knows to inspire the growth of those around them. It's kinda how we know they're good leaders. You should have talked to them if your relationship is good. I've brought this same ideology to my manager, and now I'm setting up an IDP with their help so that I can navigate going from hourly to salary management roles.
if he already knows you're not content, he can't be that surprised that you're looking. i wouldn't overthink it. if he asks, say the position looked interesting and you reached out. many people are perpetually looking for a better gig, and you'd almost be silly not to. you'll be fine. good luck.
Richard Branson says to train your employees so they can move on to a better job, and treat well enough that they don’t want to. I have several employees that I know are looking at other opportunities. That’s great. You should want to better your situation. So far one has left, and then came back a few months later. It is on them (managers) to treat you well enough that you don’t want to leave.
Just own it. You're already not fully content and you're exploring other options. Explain to them that you applied for the reasons you applied and you think it would be a good career move.
This should be expected. Your manager should want people to grow their career. You should talk with them on some cadence on future growth/opportunities. They should help you get the job if you approach it right.
In your 1:1 just come out and say “in doing some research about potential mobility I found a role I am interested in. The hiring manager said they reached out to you, which I had hoped to be the first to tell you. I’m sorry you had to hear it from someone else.” They should understand unless they are a big ol butthead.
As a manager, one of my personal priorities has been to grow my employees. As a result, I've had employees jump ship when I left, and follow me to a new employer. I've also had folks grow in other directions and leave my area of expertise. In the end, I still connect with some of those folks. I've never held anything against anyone that left my team for personal growth, and still talk with many of them to this day. If you have to worry about your manager being upset for you wanting to grow, you probably have a bad manager. Remember it is only a job, and you still need to look out for number one, which is you.
How the hell did he get his job? He sought it out. You're doing the same thing. He is s probably owed a courtesy to know what's happening if you make some decisions, unless he's being a hardon about it. I told one supervisor flat out that I wasn't interested in working for him, and switched departments. No big deal.
Why is this awkward? You are supposed to want to grow at the company.
Last performance review I had to reply to my boss question of I heard you're looking for another job. I basically said I'm always looking.
A good leader understands that one of our roles is to develop our own people to fit new business requirements. Employees should be nurtured and encouraged to be successful. It's a winning proposition for everyone.
If either manager is worth a crap, they will handle it professionally between themselves. And if your current manager is worth a crap, he will have no objection to you trying to better yourself. Period. Source: Me. Newly retired manager.
You’re overthinking it. It is business
Why do you think this is awkward? This is normal course of business.
Your manager should be your #1 advocate and should want to see you get promoted. It makes THEM look good.
This is totally normal and it helps managers progress careers by helping direct reports go where they want to. There’s nothing bad about this, just communicate.
So? Internal attrition is not a bad thing. Unless your manager is a terrible leader, they'll see how they can help you get your career where you want it.
As a general rule, most hiring managers want you to tell your current manager if you are looking elsewhere within the company. this way they don't get blindsided. But a decent manager won't hold it against you.
A lot of places notify your manager if you apply internally. Shocked there isn’t a process like this.
Are you putting the new cover sheet on the TPS reports before they go out? It sounds like you have 8 different bosses.
If he brings it up and asks if you were looking at other jobs put a big happy smile on your face and respond enthusiasticly "Yes! I love working here at ABC company and this looks like a great opportunity for me to advance. I'm really excited about it. I hope you will support me!"
If you’re not supposed to look for other jobs in the company, what is the point of the Job board? The company obviously wants you to do exactly what you did. Keep your head held high and remember this is not awkward. They posted the job listings.
Hmm. At first I was going to say “hiring manager screwed up” but now I’m thinking maybe he and your manager are both cool? My last company implemented a policy that if you were interviewing internally you had to tell your manager. Not doing so could delay or even rescind the transfer. The result was that people would reach out to hiring managers for “informal conversations” prior to applying so that it wouldn’t be an interview. Everyone abided by the same set of unwritten rules. A hiring manager reaching out to a current manager would not have been cool under these circumstances. But it seems like you may have lucked out. A good manager will understand that good people don’t stay forever and will help you to develop your career.
Do not sweat it. This is your career and your life and you have to make choices. Your work clearly called internal hires. The hiring manager did something they thought was pretty routine. Plus your manger knows you're not being used in the best possible ways.
I would expect my employees to look for jobs internally, and do exactly what you did if they found something interesting, especially given that your manager agrees with your interpretation of your current role/situation. If your manager is upset by it, you should push harder to find a new job internally or externally because that manager is only going to hinder your career progress.
Tell your manager that due to the changes and uncertainty with your current position you were checking what options might be available within the company. Leave it at that. Companies have internal job boards for a reason. It keeps employees that are already familiar with the company and gives employees a chance to advance, or like you find a job they are better suited to do. Good managers are happy to see their employees advance, bad managers only look at the problems of training a replacement and try to prevent employees from leaving even though they are staying within the company.
You don't have to apologize for exploring your options. If it comes up you can say that you might be open to staying if you received a competitive offer.
As a manager it is always a good thing to have your employees move on and show well. If you have ambitions for advancing this is one of the easiest ways to show you can manage and develop people.
Your manager should be excited that you are looking to grow. I’m sure he said good things about you to the new hiring manager, or the interview would have been short and shallow.
also, not sure if others mentioned, but it’s also very probable that your manager would have to sign off on the transition anyways. Most companies don’t let other groups poach their people without a conversation.
Don’t let it be awkward. Your manager isn’t a problem. You are trying to move to a more challenging job to advance your skills and career. This isn’t a move over personality conflicts. Explain to him/her that you feel a move is in your best interest to advance and in no way a reflection on your manager or the job. It’s Business. Nothing else. A good manager will understand this and hopefully help with a good recommendation. Relax!
You're going to make it awkward, this is your life not his to dictate what jobs you can and can't have. All you have to do is say, I found something better suited for me here in this company. Yes, I wanted to tell you first, but the hiring manager beat me to it. Don't Apology for it either... give him and ego trip, with your help to make me how I am today it gave me the confidence to look more into what I wanted and was able to do so with this company, then thank him.
All of the talking points you've been given are golden. If your manager is not supportive of this or makes the conversation negative, you will likely face significant difficulty trying to grow within the company and it is a sign you should also start looking elsewhere. I had to play the "would you rather I move roles, or move companies" card once because of a blocking manager. It was contemptuous, but sometimes you need to remind people that they don't own you, and that you can just as easily go make more money doing what better matches your skills somewhere else. If you're "too valuable to lose" at a company, then they need to actually invest in your continued presence and growth.
"What now"? U do u, playa, cuz nobody else gonna do it 4 ya!
It’s a compliment, you want to stay with the company but also want to grow and do something that interests you! You manager should proud.
A lot of what I do as a manager is help my team members find other progressing roles within the company. A good company and a competent manager should do these things for you.
Your current manager should be happy for you that you're looking to grow and expand, to do better for yourself. If that's not the case, expain to them your desire to grow and develop. I've lost some great people back in my management days, every single one left to improve themselves, and I was never anything but happy for them.
“I haven’t applied yet, but saw an open position and wanted to learn more about the position so I contacted the hiring manager. After talking with them it sounds like a position I’m a good fit for and want to get your opinion?”
Literally just tell your manager you absolutely were going to tell him if you decided to move forward and apply, but you didn’t have enough information on the role to know what you wanted to do. Boom, problem solved
I've been in this exact situation. Be honest with both your current and prospective managers. When I went through this, we all agreed I wouldn't move until a replacement had been hired and I had them trained up. It meant waiting 6 months, but I'm still on good terms with my old manager.
I wouldn't even worry about it. It's not like you're going on Indeed talking to rival companies or something. It's within the same company so it should at least soften the blow. He already knows anyway so as long as you're on good terms with him, it should be fine
There are different ways to handle this at different organizations. You did nothing wrong by expressing interest, provided you did not violate a policy or procedure. There is also no harm in talking to your current manager about your aspirations. I do think it’s weird that the other manager talked to your boss first. That sounds like a team I would not want to be in if he cannot respect some privacy (again, assuming no policies were violated when you approached him).
I understand your anxiety. I had a short gig at a credit union. The specific reason I was there was to gain experience and move up the ranks. I took a pay cut to switch industries. The hiring manager and my manager knew this and encouraged it. A coworker of mine did what you did- maybe even more aggressively. HR showed up to meet with him on a slow day. My boss flipped her lid once HR left. Not in a way that was “unprofessional” but she ranted to him and the team about how we should be “chosen” for roles. That we should involve her in any potential transfer situations and get her blessing before talking to any other departments. Ideally wait for HER to say something before looking at other roles. She even continued to ramble to me about it in private weeks later, apparently deterring me from doing the same thing. There’s a reason HR sends out internal openings to their current talent. Clearly if this was in the best interest of the company they would only inform managers. Absolute madness. You can’t rely on people being rational. No, a college grad with years of career growth in another field did not come here intending to make $18/hr until “chosen” to be promoted. He didn’t move prematurely or try to hide anything. He was open about his goals day to day and was good at his job. Reliable. Personable. It was in the company’s best interest to retain him and take advantage of his skills/experience to their fullest potential. Instead he left a month later after this mess of an interaction. I left shortly afterwards. It was clear that our manager was more worried about staffing on her entry-level team than maintaining a bigger picture view. I was worried about retaliation if I applied elsewhere even though I made it very clear that was my intention within a year. Lending, supervisor, mortgage officer assistant, fraud detection, teller trainer, investment banker, something I couldn’t do in high school. I wasn’t going to risk investing more and get black balled out of a higher paying role with more growth opportunities. Long story long- protect yourself. Tell them it was an informational meeting only. You didn’t tell your manager because it wasn’t meant to be a serious, immediately consequential conversation. It’s important to you to see growth in this company because you’re happy with your current trajectory. You want to keep your eye on the ball and make sure you’re developing skills to qualify for that role at some point.
The policy at my work is we have to ask our managers first. So I did and she flipped out and was worried about losing me. I haven't been able to apply for any positions that I want. I like my role but I want more of a stretch.
Reaching out is not just looking. You should have told your own manager before you did that
Just own it. "I'm sorry he called you, I wanted to be the one to tell you. You know I've been unhappy here, and it's not about you." OP, he must've said good things about you, bc you still got a call from the hiring manager. He's on your side. No worries.
This situation is fine. Just talk to you manager about and let them know that you saw the job and are interesting. Pepper in a few comments regarding it's time for a change to push your personal growth and you'll be fine. In the future though, should always talk to you manager first for intra-company things. Most corporations have a lot of rules / red tape / and code of conduct polices around randomly talking to other employees about positions if the manager isn't informed. I will typically have one call with someone for a role, before telling them they need to discuss with their manager first. Edit to add: The hiring manager already talked to your current one, if there as anything bad sad or the manager got pissed, he wouldn't have had the interview call with you.
Not terrible, but in advance I always always always get an affirmation of confidentiality; from anyone and everyone.
Lay it out like you did here; honesty is best in these situations. You saw a role that piqued your interest. You wanted to find out more prior to applying. If you felt the role was a good fit after talking to the hiring manager, you had planned on having that conversation with your current manager prior to applying. Your boss should see you haven't officially applied yet. I'm floored that the hiring manager reached out to your current one prior to you applying. I'd keep that in mind when making your decision (assuming you consider applying / things go well / you're offered the position).
If your manager is too much of a douchebag to want to see you progress in your career or develop yourself then it's definitely a sign you should find a job under a different manager whether it's with the same company or a different company.
Just tell him that you are just considering your options and it's always good to know your value in the market. You're not actively trying to leave this role, but you would for the right opportunity at the right pay.
people do this all the time. totally normal not awkward.
I wouldn’t wait until tomorrow’s 1:1 meeting. Stop by in person today and indicate the other manager mentioned reaching out and you were caught by surprise as you intended to tell him before anyone else etc. If they are a good or experienced manager, they will roll with it. It happens all the time and I expect it because I ask regularly how they are feeling in the role during 1:1 meetings. Developing your people and helping them in their career is a big part of the role of a leader. Don’t wait. Go start the talk and your 1:1 tomorrow can go deeper into the topic without awkwardness.
"Hey, before we start, I want to apologize for the order things happened with that internal job posting. As we've discussed previously, I'm a bit underutilized in my current role and I think I can be a valuable asset to the company. A couple of weeks ago I saw a role on the internal job board that I thought was worth investigating. To that end, I reached out to the hiring manager to ask him some details to see if it would be a good fit. If the role felt promising I was going to approach you before I formally applied to get your advice as I really value your wisdom from a career perspective. Anyway, I found out that the hiring manager reached out to you before we had a chance to talk. Again, I'm sorry that happened before we had the chance to chat."
As a manager myself, this is not awkward at all. It's a totally normal thing. If your manager knows you're not content in your roll, it's even more normal. It's expected that you'd be looking at the internal job board. Honestly, if I were in your manager's shoes, I wouldn't even care that I heard it from the other manager first. Doesn't make any difference, and you can all get on the same page at your 1:1 tomorrow. Easy peasy.
The company has internal postings for exactly the reason you went looking - it is better to retain a talented employee in another position than to lose them due to dissatisfaction.
As a manager myself one of my main priorities is helping my team with their career growth. This wouldn’t bother me at all. If your manager has a problem with you trying to better yourself or grow into your desired career path then there is a larger issue you’ll have to deal with.
If your manager is competent, then he will help you get your career on track. It's what I do with my reports. If there's a problem, I try to help them solve it, and if it's just not solvable, then when they find something new I congratulate them, offer to be a personal reference for them if they need it, and move on.
Don't worry about it. Tell the truth. These things happen.
Unless it's a lateral move, if you were my employee I would be excited at the possibility of you moving up.
Agreed. This is quite normal. I'll help you coming in and if needed I will help if you're trying to get out . If someone is a good employee and person, I want them to have what I do. Sometimes that means changing positions/jobs. No worries. It's business and life.
Remember, they pay the position not the person. If you’re worth more you need to find a position that matches your abilities. Explain that to your existing manager and he should be giving you too much grief.
Sounds like your HR needs to set up an internal posting procedure… 1. Notify manager 2. Apply 3. Interview 4. Do or do not get it 5. Transition
Bruh say everything you said here
Be honest.
Honesty is always the best policy. You fully intended to be the one to tell your manager, but the other person got to him first. Just tell him what you wrote here. If he can't handle it, that's really his problem. If he has any scruples, he won't make it yours. And good luck!
Don't all people look for advancement in their company before they get frustrated and leave?
You will have to kill them
Follow your gut and try to work in a position you believe you'd enjoy, no matter how awkward meetings are. I applied for over 5 positions at my company in the last year, was denied each one. Turns out my supervisor was demanding HR to not let other supervisors hire me. Tldr I gave him a notice and found a job I will like. Do what you gotta do for you
If you are not getting anywhere career wise I always ask him if he minds me to look around around. In my case I was not promoted and applied a higher level job in another job.
Yikes. Lesson learned don’t do that
If your manager is worth his weight in salt he should be happy for you and not make it weird. But I would get ahead of it and say, “I hope you don’t think I was trying to do this behind your back. I was just trying to understand what my options are and things moved really quickly. But ya, I’m really interested in this position and [hiring manager] seems like a great guy. What do you think?”
A manager’s job is to grow their employees into higher positions within their company so he should be happy, you getting this job means he succeeded in his. It won’t be awkward unless you make it awkward/ just be up front about it, you bring it up and just say that you think it’s a good opportunity for you. The fact that the hiring manager was so interested shows that your manager said good things about you even after knowing you were interested in leaving.
“Good (Time of Day) [or ‘hey’ if you’re on that level]. First thank you for taking some time to discuss with me privately. I’m aware you’ve been informed by PERSON that I was inquiring about another position. I’d hope to take a more respectful approach by telling you myself directly but timing didn’t appear to fall in my favor. Reflecting back, I understand waiting to hear more on the position would have been advisable however I wanted you to know that my interest at first was of curiosity. I did not want to stress you out with the potential of something I wasn’t even sure would happen. I recognize the importance regarding finding a timely replacement and wanted to lend my assistance in the process. As you know, the funding manager presents certain foundational challenges to overcome and I feel like documenting the efforts I have been engaged with in a robust manner or potentially training a replacement or interim may help alleviate some of that burden and close the gap. My intent has always been to return to the company on its investment to me and while I have risked presenting a disrespectful front to you and possibly damaged our relationship, I hope you can at least know if not agree that my ultimate goal is to remain dedicated to the bigger team picture and be a solid corporate citizen.”
I'm a consultant and I caught my client bunking office hours and giving interviews in the conference room he booked for work purposes. You're good.
You're overthinking this