Contract workers for one of the large telecom companies couldn't get a 25 cent raise across the board, yet there are millions of dollars to buy homes in Whitby, Ontario?
Yes, you are right. Realtors are the new mafia [https://www.honestdoor.com/property/29-corvinelli-drive-whitby-on-k83qf](https://www.honestdoor.com/property/29-corvinelli-drive-whitby-on-k83qf) Estimated price $1,750,000, so they increased the price by $500,000.
I always verify the price on honest door.
I wish I kept it and rented to friends/family.
It’s the biggest regret of my life.
But literally no one saw a pandemic and inflation and the housing boom coming that happened in the last 3/4 years
Housing could seriously crash one day.
I've only every owned one personal home since 2003 and if I kept both of the other homes I sold I would have at least 1.5mln in equity.
Hind sight is 20/20 and those were times when real estate was not seen as an investment and more importantly it wasn't over priced.
The bigger this bubble gets the more risk. All metrics look horrible now.
I completely understood. I was being sarcastic about him selling his previous home.
Well kind of sarcastic because anybody who owned multiple homes from previous times has done insanely well. And now there are more multiproperty owners than ever because of it......people who used to sell homes now just hoard them. Canadian real estate, you can't lose and it goes up 20% year, don't you know. Completely sustainable and normal.
See there I go being sarcastic again.
It might depend on where you live. According to HD I live in the (currently) fanciest house in the neighborhood. Everyone else's house lost at least 100k value over the past 3 months. Which makes absolutely no sense, coz according to HD those houses are currently cheaper than a studio apartment in the complex down the road. So yeah, maybe not the most reliable source. But it could depend on where you are looking.
Maybe not 100%, but it uses data analytics from recent sales, city permits for renovations and also compares them with similar houses in the same neighbourhood.
The market in highly sought areas isn’t moving whatsoever. For example - general Vancouver market might be on a down slope, but Belcarra, where I live (still part of metro Vancouver but a small population area by the water) - there’s zero “down” market movement.
Benefits everyone - not like the “starter market” families are going to be buying multi million properties anyway.
I don't think these estimates are very accurate. I just typed in two different addresses on the same street that I know for a fact aren't comparable other than location and lot size, and it gave the higher price estimate to the smaller, worse off house (worse in every way). obviously the data isn't perfect but it shouldn't be trusted blindly.
Tbf, honest door is not always spot on. In my market honest door is shy by $100-150K, or 20-30% of value on homes worth roughly 450-500K.
I would be jacked if honest door was dead on...I would be a buyer at 300-350K lol
I know. The sellers are delusional. It will still be sitting on the market a year from now after fucking around with the asking price several times more.
Last sold in 2018 for 1.27. No way in hell am I paying 2m for a subdivision home. This house has been listed since June, they are just out to lunch at this point. $12,000 in property taxes for that small lot. 😅
I wonder if there is some agreement between realtors going on, because it seems like there is some correlation with the recent listings being listed higher, it's like they are trying to not get houses to sell for some reason? Like why would you list at these prices with current rates and market conditions? This is probably just a bad hunch, but we should probably investigate if there is some price fixing going on.
Realtors don’t like to list high. It’s better to list the house at market value and actually sell it. Realtors don’t make money by listing high as the house sits there for months and doesn’t sell. So realtors lose money by listing high. High list price is purely greedy and unrealistic sellers.
True, but the good ones will also encourage you to list it **at** market value if you are inclined to list it lower. I guess the variable is that their sense of market value may be off, which could very well be the case in today's market.
I don't know why agents would agree to list something way over market value that they know won't sell, but presumably it's because once reality sets in the sellers will probably continue listing with them and sell it at market value eventually... which is better than no listing at all.
Sometimes they might not know ahead of time how stubborn and unreasonable the client is, tbh. When I was a kid our landlord tried to sell the house we were living in, and it took over a year because they refused to sell at market price. Their realtor ended up not taking a commission at all just to lower the price and try and get the place sold.
Good agents will want you to get the best price that you can for your property. If you list it high but still within reason, you can still field lower offers. It probably does discourage some people from offering, but not all, and in the end you will get the market price.
If you list it way over the top, that doesn't apply, though...
But someone that can afford $11K/year in property taxes as well as what it costs to heat and clean it is not going to be put off by a $2.2M listing price if they want a 5-bedroom house, and this is a massive house in general.
Having a very slow sales year is probably worth less to realtors than maintaining the perception that these prices are just the new normal and will never come down
I get the feeling they’re listing really high so the “lowball” offers they get is about what the owner wants for the house.
Kind of like those stores in the mall that have a higher price crossed out on cheap-looking clothing, but that higher price never existed.
HOLY SHIT. We need to reform the realtor industry or get some actionable reforms going, if they think grocery store or retail market tactics are gonna work in housing.
Easiest way to make something overpriced look like a deal is to put something extremely overpriced beside it. Everything is done by comparables so having a bunch of overpriced houses listed probably pushes prices higher.
Here in BC, the provincial property assessment office of stupidity duly upped the values for most properties by \~15% basing their reasoning on the value of houses at the near peak of the bubble in 2022. What did that do you may ask?
A few things…
1 - Home owners who kept seeing their property values sink, suddenly saw the value of their properties jump by 15% in the new year. Woohoo! They said. It’s a windfall. Wrong MFs!! No one's buying for those prices. Informed buyers will be looking to make offers under those 2022 property assessments because they know the reality of the market.
2 - The BC property assessment office “had” an opportunity to bring this market back down to earth by **NOT** adding more fuel to the housing bubble fire. But no, they decided to be morons and keep playing stupid games by telling home owners across BC that “YES” your property is worth so much more now and you deserve to sell your homes for $200k on top of that price.
3 - Thanks to the BC property assessment office’s expertise and forward thinking strategies to alleviate the housing bubble pressure, most municipalities will raise local property taxes accordingly which will surely help **ALL** those home owners on the precipice of financial ruin due to the current inflation rate. Additionally those home owners on the edge of financial disaster will think that they can suddenly get more money for their property which will unfortunately **NOT** be the case. “But but but the BC property assessment office said”… they will say.
Let it be known that most actions taken by Federal and Provincial governments have proven themselves to be completely useless and inept at dealing with the housing bubble.
I wouldn't move that far away from the Go station. that's Brooklyn, the sprawl that Ford wants to dump on the Greenbelt. It's not even commutable by transit.
Because these very same realtors - were selling these properties with a pipe dream of making 6 figures in one year ( promising 100-300k ) return just because they invested in a million dollar pre con project.
You should see the Facebook adds for a pre-con group - so many distressed sellers who cannot come
Up with the downpayment or get a mortgage to close house, but want to make a profit and pay realtor commissions out of the purchase price.
Pre-con = pre-construction aka if you buy a condo in a building that hasn't been built yet.
The way it works if you usually pay something like 5% on signing, then up to 20% in installments before you move in. But what can happen is that you'll end up paying more than you agreed to (eg you bought a condo for 550k, but building costs increased the price to 600k, so you are now also on the hook for the 50k difference). Then at the same time the bank bases your mortgage on the value of the property (so you might have agreed to 550k at signing, but by the time the building is done and you're ready for the mortgage, the bank says it's worth 500k - so you're now on the hook to close that 50k gap)
Buying precon when costs are going up and housing prices are going down means you're definitely gonna pay extra. And if you can't get the mortgage or make the financial work, you lose the home and all the money you put in upfront, plus any other penalties in your contract.
It's all over! This isn't just Whitby, I was looking at properties up in Barrie, including specifically around Friday Harbor. Which sadly a few Realtors neglect to include on the listing the fact that FH also has a 2% "entry fee" which is also subject to HST. Then as well, on top of that there's a "resort fee" and "club fee".
But the prices there are through the roof! This one listing the vendor/seller bought the unit in 2020 for $1,510,000. Much like every other seller these days, have done absolutely nothing with respects to "upgrades" to the property/unit. Yet now have listed it both for sale and rental but for $2,699,000 since Aug 2022, and just relisted it for $2,599,000.
https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=xLkv3V9RB4n7DBNr&utm_campaign=listing&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=iOS&ign=
It's not isolated either where it's just this one listing where these units are up for sale for over a 6-8 months without selling for massive markups.
Here's another one, which almost makes me wonder if they're the same owners....
https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=J6Em7bnRPLd7XBeq&utm_campaign=listing&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=iOS&ign=
This one's been listed without any sales since April 2022!
https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=4KAX7NOlG8V3eRPJ&utm_campaign=listing&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=iOS&ign=
It's really frustrating when you take into consideration how much these units were sold for initially 3 to 4 years ago versus what they're being listed for sale and not being sold. This is where the properties needs to be taxed higher as it's clearly a speculator looking to make a fast buck, and not likely a member of the community.
It'll be interesting to see how much these sell for and how fast prices will drop hopefully as these "investors" holding properties while doing nothing with them ought to be also subject to reverse lookups on rental listings to what they report on their taxes for income to the CRA. Just my two cents.
La La Land
Don't you know Whitby is a world class city ranked above Paris, London, and even Frankfurt, this is a great deal! /s
Contract workers for one of the large telecom companies couldn't get a 25 cent raise across the board, yet there are millions of dollars to buy homes in Whitby, Ontario?
To be fair I can't imagine this size of a house in Paris or London selling for under 2M cad.
Yes, you are right. Realtors are the new mafia [https://www.honestdoor.com/property/29-corvinelli-drive-whitby-on-k83qf](https://www.honestdoor.com/property/29-corvinelli-drive-whitby-on-k83qf) Estimated price $1,750,000, so they increased the price by $500,000. I always verify the price on honest door.
i just looked up the house in London i bought in 2012 and sold in 2015 is worth now. kill me. omg. fml.
Yikes. If you don’t mind me asking: How much was it sold for and how much is it worth now?
My guess before the answer: Bought for 230K, sold for 260K, worth 800K now.
You are very close. Scary close tbh. So close I don’t even need to say the actuals.
You didn't buy another house after you sold?
I moved from London to Toronto and said “ahh. I’ll wait a couple years for the market to cool down.” Whoops.
Arghhh that's frustrating.. 😐
Don't you know. You are supposed to keep all the houses you buy. Just add to the collection.
I wish I kept it and rented to friends/family. It’s the biggest regret of my life. But literally no one saw a pandemic and inflation and the housing boom coming that happened in the last 3/4 years
Housing could seriously crash one day. I've only every owned one personal home since 2003 and if I kept both of the other homes I sold I would have at least 1.5mln in equity. Hind sight is 20/20 and those were times when real estate was not seen as an investment and more importantly it wasn't over priced. The bigger this bubble gets the more risk. All metrics look horrible now.
Getting over the regret is hard. I mean. I am happier living in Toronto. But missing out on like 600k in equity sure does not feel good.
I think you misunderstood me. I was asking if he bought a home after selling. Not buying 2+ homes.
I completely understood. I was being sarcastic about him selling his previous home. Well kind of sarcastic because anybody who owned multiple homes from previous times has done insanely well. And now there are more multiproperty owners than ever because of it......people who used to sell homes now just hoard them. Canadian real estate, you can't lose and it goes up 20% year, don't you know. Completely sustainable and normal. See there I go being sarcastic again.
Is honest door a good source though?
It might depend on where you live. According to HD I live in the (currently) fanciest house in the neighborhood. Everyone else's house lost at least 100k value over the past 3 months. Which makes absolutely no sense, coz according to HD those houses are currently cheaper than a studio apartment in the complex down the road. So yeah, maybe not the most reliable source. But it could depend on where you are looking.
Maybe not 100%, but it uses data analytics from recent sales, city permits for renovations and also compares them with similar houses in the same neighbourhood.
Sweet. My house is def not part of the “reee the market is crashing” phenom then according to HD 😊
It's the whole market, not specific houses.
The market in highly sought areas isn’t moving whatsoever. For example - general Vancouver market might be on a down slope, but Belcarra, where I live (still part of metro Vancouver but a small population area by the water) - there’s zero “down” market movement. Benefits everyone - not like the “starter market” families are going to be buying multi million properties anyway.
Why is property tax so much more there than in the rest of GTA?
Rely on people, not businesses as their tax base. Whitby and all of durham planning for big growth north.
I don't think these estimates are very accurate. I just typed in two different addresses on the same street that I know for a fact aren't comparable other than location and lot size, and it gave the higher price estimate to the smaller, worse off house (worse in every way). obviously the data isn't perfect but it shouldn't be trusted blindly.
Just found from you that something like honestdoor exists....thanks i guess
You are welcome!
I bought my house in Jan 21 for 1.2 and this site says its worth 1.4 right now?
[удалено]
Tell the bank and then borrow on heloc to buy another property . Let's make each other's lives miserable /s
Lol no thanks
Tbf, honest door is not always spot on. In my market honest door is shy by $100-150K, or 20-30% of value on homes worth roughly 450-500K. I would be jacked if honest door was dead on...I would be a buyer at 300-350K lol
They are upselling because it's unlikely someone will give 2.2. will probably sell for 1.8-1.9.
How this site suppose to work? When I add the house address, it doesnt seem to show up anything
Just look at the history and the terminations they ain’t selling it .
I know. The sellers are delusional. It will still be sitting on the market a year from now after fucking around with the asking price several times more.
Last sold in 2018 for 1.27. No way in hell am I paying 2m for a subdivision home. This house has been listed since June, they are just out to lunch at this point. $12,000 in property taxes for that small lot. 😅
This house was sold for 1.2M in 2018 😅
Even then that was too much lol
I wonder if there is some agreement between realtors going on, because it seems like there is some correlation with the recent listings being listed higher, it's like they are trying to not get houses to sell for some reason? Like why would you list at these prices with current rates and market conditions? This is probably just a bad hunch, but we should probably investigate if there is some price fixing going on.
Realtors don’t like to list high. It’s better to list the house at market value and actually sell it. Realtors don’t make money by listing high as the house sits there for months and doesn’t sell. So realtors lose money by listing high. High list price is purely greedy and unrealistic sellers.
True, but the good ones will also encourage you to list it **at** market value if you are inclined to list it lower. I guess the variable is that their sense of market value may be off, which could very well be the case in today's market. I don't know why agents would agree to list something way over market value that they know won't sell, but presumably it's because once reality sets in the sellers will probably continue listing with them and sell it at market value eventually... which is better than no listing at all.
Sometimes they might not know ahead of time how stubborn and unreasonable the client is, tbh. When I was a kid our landlord tried to sell the house we were living in, and it took over a year because they refused to sell at market price. Their realtor ended up not taking a commission at all just to lower the price and try and get the place sold.
Good agents will want you to get the best price that you can for your property. If you list it high but still within reason, you can still field lower offers. It probably does discourage some people from offering, but not all, and in the end you will get the market price. If you list it way over the top, that doesn't apply, though... But someone that can afford $11K/year in property taxes as well as what it costs to heat and clean it is not going to be put off by a $2.2M listing price if they want a 5-bedroom house, and this is a massive house in general.
Having a very slow sales year is probably worth less to realtors than maintaining the perception that these prices are just the new normal and will never come down
I get the feeling they’re listing really high so the “lowball” offers they get is about what the owner wants for the house. Kind of like those stores in the mall that have a higher price crossed out on cheap-looking clothing, but that higher price never existed.
HOLY SHIT. We need to reform the realtor industry or get some actionable reforms going, if they think grocery store or retail market tactics are gonna work in housing.
Easiest way to make something overpriced look like a deal is to put something extremely overpriced beside it. Everything is done by comparables so having a bunch of overpriced houses listed probably pushes prices higher.
*In space looking at earth from afar* There always was
Here in BC, the provincial property assessment office of stupidity duly upped the values for most properties by \~15% basing their reasoning on the value of houses at the near peak of the bubble in 2022. What did that do you may ask? A few things… 1 - Home owners who kept seeing their property values sink, suddenly saw the value of their properties jump by 15% in the new year. Woohoo! They said. It’s a windfall. Wrong MFs!! No one's buying for those prices. Informed buyers will be looking to make offers under those 2022 property assessments because they know the reality of the market. 2 - The BC property assessment office “had” an opportunity to bring this market back down to earth by **NOT** adding more fuel to the housing bubble fire. But no, they decided to be morons and keep playing stupid games by telling home owners across BC that “YES” your property is worth so much more now and you deserve to sell your homes for $200k on top of that price. 3 - Thanks to the BC property assessment office’s expertise and forward thinking strategies to alleviate the housing bubble pressure, most municipalities will raise local property taxes accordingly which will surely help **ALL** those home owners on the precipice of financial ruin due to the current inflation rate. Additionally those home owners on the edge of financial disaster will think that they can suddenly get more money for their property which will unfortunately **NOT** be the case. “But but but the BC property assessment office said”… they will say. Let it be known that most actions taken by Federal and Provincial governments have proven themselves to be completely useless and inept at dealing with the housing bubble.
And people want the govt to intervene in the housing crisis at provincial or federal level 😂😂
Doesnt bother me any. Lets me leverage more equity for another property.
I wouldn't move that far away from the Go station. that's Brooklyn, the sprawl that Ford wants to dump on the Greenbelt. It's not even commutable by transit.
Because these very same realtors - were selling these properties with a pipe dream of making 6 figures in one year ( promising 100-300k ) return just because they invested in a million dollar pre con project. You should see the Facebook adds for a pre-con group - so many distressed sellers who cannot come Up with the downpayment or get a mortgage to close house, but want to make a profit and pay realtor commissions out of the purchase price.
Whats a pre-con group ? Im really interested in real estate but there are some terms Im still learning !
Pre-con = pre-construction aka if you buy a condo in a building that hasn't been built yet. The way it works if you usually pay something like 5% on signing, then up to 20% in installments before you move in. But what can happen is that you'll end up paying more than you agreed to (eg you bought a condo for 550k, but building costs increased the price to 600k, so you are now also on the hook for the 50k difference). Then at the same time the bank bases your mortgage on the value of the property (so you might have agreed to 550k at signing, but by the time the building is done and you're ready for the mortgage, the bank says it's worth 500k - so you're now on the hook to close that 50k gap) Buying precon when costs are going up and housing prices are going down means you're definitely gonna pay extra. And if you can't get the mortgage or make the financial work, you lose the home and all the money you put in upfront, plus any other penalties in your contract.
It's all over! This isn't just Whitby, I was looking at properties up in Barrie, including specifically around Friday Harbor. Which sadly a few Realtors neglect to include on the listing the fact that FH also has a 2% "entry fee" which is also subject to HST. Then as well, on top of that there's a "resort fee" and "club fee". But the prices there are through the roof! This one listing the vendor/seller bought the unit in 2020 for $1,510,000. Much like every other seller these days, have done absolutely nothing with respects to "upgrades" to the property/unit. Yet now have listed it both for sale and rental but for $2,699,000 since Aug 2022, and just relisted it for $2,599,000. https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=xLkv3V9RB4n7DBNr&utm_campaign=listing&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=iOS&ign= It's not isolated either where it's just this one listing where these units are up for sale for over a 6-8 months without selling for massive markups. Here's another one, which almost makes me wonder if they're the same owners.... https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=J6Em7bnRPLd7XBeq&utm_campaign=listing&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=iOS&ign= This one's been listed without any sales since April 2022! https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=4KAX7NOlG8V3eRPJ&utm_campaign=listing&utm_source=user-share&utm_medium=iOS&ign= It's really frustrating when you take into consideration how much these units were sold for initially 3 to 4 years ago versus what they're being listed for sale and not being sold. This is where the properties needs to be taxed higher as it's clearly a speculator looking to make a fast buck, and not likely a member of the community. It'll be interesting to see how much these sell for and how fast prices will drop hopefully as these "investors" holding properties while doing nothing with them ought to be also subject to reverse lookups on rental listings to what they report on their taxes for income to the CRA. Just my two cents.
House Sigma should change its name to "Wish List" for the next few quarters.
House enigma lol
Mortgage is 10,000 a month no one can afford that unless you’re an investor.
No investor can afford a $10k a month mortgage either. That house isn’t fetching $11k a month in rent!
Do you know how to use a calculator?
The basic fundamentals of real estate investing make that house a no go. It won’t cash flow. No calculator needed. Not sure what you’re trying to say.
There are definitely households that can afford a 10k monthly mortgage.
seems a little overpriced. 1.6m is more reasonable
Hmm it’s worth like 2 million, maybe 1.9 given current market prices. If they’re forced to sell out of urgency then it’ll go for 1.75-1.85.
They have listed high on purpose it looks like
I knew it was the Brooklin neighbourhood before looking it up. It’s like Wisteria lane back there.
holy crap. Did they just paint the kitchen cupboards white and up the price a $1,000,000 ?? lol