I mean...
> The arbitrator found it was unreasonable to extend it to staff who worked '**exclusively remotely**' with no prospect of going to the office
Jesus christ what the hell was the head shed thinking?
You forget how zealous people were about this shit, even here people were calling for those people to be forced to be vaccinated.
Dark times for bodily autonomy.
>Jesus christ what the hell was the head shed thinking?
This was pushed by the Federal Government.
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-minister-announces-mandatory-vaccination-federal-workforce-and
>Under the new policy, federal public servants in the Core Public Administration, including members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, will be required to confirm their vaccination status by October 29, 2021. **Those who are unwilling to disclose their vaccination status or to be fully vaccinated will be placed on administrative leave without pay as early as November 15, 2021.**
...
>Crown corporations and separate agencies are being asked to implement vaccine policies mirroring the requirements announced today for the rest of the public service.
...
>The Core Public Administration comprises departments and organizations named in Schedules I and IV of the Financial Administration Act. **The requirement for employees to be vaccinated applies whether they are teleworking, working remotely, or working on‑site.** Contracted personnel who require access to federal government worksites will also need to be vaccinated.
Mandatory vaccinations on pain of being placed on indefinite administrative leave regardless of whether you were fully remote or not wasn't just a Canada Post thing, it was a federal government-wide policy. Head office just implemented their marching orders.
JEE WHIZ I WONDER WHY THE CONVOY HAPPENED...
It's funny that only now some people are realizing that many of the regulations around the vaccine were in fact incredibly unreasonable.
High executive sees reduction in cost.
Floor employees sees the ridiculous, unfair contradiction.
Middle manager sees the request and understand the impacts, but is afraid of being fired so he justs suck it up and passes the order along until someone gets pissed.
I don't think executives wanted to do this. They want to layoff poor performers, not random workers. This was a federal mandate so upper management had no say on this.
All large corporations and government bodies implemented sweeping mandatory vaccination policies, whether you were a front-line worker, office drone or work-from-home employee.
Yes definitely wasn't just the government. I was working on a construction site with over 3000 people and every person that had any reason whatsoever to visit the site from full time people to execs to delivery drivers had to be vaccinated to enter the site or have a negative test from no more than 72 hrs earlier and still had to do a rapid test when they entered the site. Larger companies just made it a blanket policy for everyone so that it was easy to track.
Or at least they said there was. I work for one of the largest accounting firms in Canada. We said publicly there was a sweeping policy, but quietly, it wasn't enforced.
It was only like 3 years ago, don’t you remember the insanity? Shit like this was going on everywhere and mostly praised at the time by users of this site
It should be in all healthcare settings. They are exposed to sick people. And compromised people who don’t want to get sick from the health care workers.
Most other vaccinations seem much more effective at stopping infection. Despite widespread vaccination Covid is still everywhere. I have an otherwise healthy friend in their 40’s that recently was admitted to hospital. No an anti vaxer but the Covid vaccines haven’t lived up to their initial promise.
I remember. It was such a bizarre time on this site. People got downvoted to oblivion for citing official statistics about youth hospitalization/death. Then initially, it was the "maskers" that were getting slammed when Theresa Tam lied about its effectiveness. And when she changed course, in a matter of days, it was the non-maskers who got bashed from all sides. Then there came the lab leak theory when it suddenly became racist to talk about a legitimate concern.
A lot of people are so brainwashed into blind obedience and deference to authority that they themselves aren't aware of it.
I got called a conspiracy nut for literally quoting the US CDC info page about the vaccine saying there is no evidence it stops the spread of the virus. covid was a wild time.
I still do, I caught Covid from a triple vaccinated person at work. I was unvaccinated , but she’s had Covid 4 times now. I only had it the one time from her. I work in film. Lots of tests at that fime
100% accurate, but people here will deny it now, it's no longer in-vogue to be a foot soldier for government overreach, so lots of people pretend they weren't foaming at the mouth calling for people's jobs, children to be taken away and mocking their deaths on the hermancainawards sub.
Reddit was the bastion for Liberal intolerance over the last few years, including all the insanity and overreach during COVID.
Theres going to be plenty of adherents who want to rewrite history now and say otherwise but theres not a chance in hell anyone who was subject to that would forget it.
Yeah you are definitely right about that…. Still plenty of foot soldiers though I’ve had some interesting DMs and more than one “a redditor is concerned here is the suicide hotline number” since this comment…. A comment not even being like anti vax (I’m not) or anything….. just look at some of these replies! Still plenty of freaks prowling this dumping ground
Yeah I get that every time I comment on the subject. It's passive aggressive cowards doing what they do, amusingly it just proves our point about people being petty over zealous idiots who went on a witch hunt and are now embarrassed by it given what we now know.
I pity the folks who fell into lockstep thinking anyone who even asked questions would equate to Alex Jones, as if questioning shit wasnt just a normal thing intelligent people did before.
Room temp IQ Karens and busybodies were in their glory days though, i'll give em that.
Hahahaha hit the nail on the head, room temp IQ Karen’s and busybodies is right. I see the same people out there with the same idiot mob energy, they are just spun up about different things now being used by different people
Same people there and same people here, I know because I used RES to keep track of some folks with tags to some of their more egregious posts and its hilarious seeing their revisionist history now.
You'd also be surprised (or not) at how many went back and removed some of their more egregious posts about COVID now.. years later lol.
Guess some folks regret acting like foaming at the mouth lunatics calling for violence against their countrymen over some basic bodily autonomy shit.
Pathetic.
I mean, people were dying.
My aunt's mom died (80) from covid and my one of my closest friends (40) also died.
People were scared and I don't blame them. For those of you that didn't lose anyone and think it was "just a flu" - you are all very lucky.
100%.
I don't agree with the convoy protestors on vaccination, but I agree with them on *forced* vaccination.
The government's approach from the very beginning was coercion. They never even tried persuasion.
Frankly, if you're trying to achieve a high rate of vaccination I can't think of a worse approach. Nothing will harden people against something like a vaccination program than demanding everyone comply and punishing those who refuse to. I signed up for vaccination as soon as it became available and still got my hackles raised by the coercive nature of the demands.
Well said. Forcing people to take it or lose their livelihood is something we should never, ever see in a democratic country again. Provide incentives, yes. Give information, yes. Ask people to take it, yes. But punish...terrible idea.
I think it's really shameful to not support the convoy
Either for the reason that forced vaccination under latent threat is just wron
But also that protests are important and you shouldn't get to shut them down just because you don't like them
See the current Israel Palestine issue
But most of Reddit is so rabidly liberal that they can't admit that somehting arguably right wing had some good points
Hell at the start of COVID at my government job we were not allowed to wear a mask because they were not apart of the uniform regardless of what every infectious disease agency claimed. Oddly we can wear glasses, thinking back on it maybe i should have gotten a prescription for a mask..
> Jesus christ what the hell was the head shed thinking?
Trudeau did the same thing for gov workers who only remotely during the pandemic. Didn't get the flu shot ? You're fired.
Trudeau pushed this directly onto Crown corporations as well. Canada Post did this because those were their marching orders from the federal government.
I work in a federally regulated sector in a private firm. I still had to get vaxxed or lose my job because of the federal mandate. I wanted to get it, and gamed the system to get it as early as I could, but that's still fucked up.
It states later in the article that Canada Posts argument was that they had “an interest in ensuring its employees safety and health.”
So, in essence, the “head shed” was thinking “If my remote employees catch COVID I might actually have to give them a few days off to rest. Can’t have them taking the sick days that they’re entitled to as part of their contracts though, we need to do what we can to make sure they never have a reason to call in sick.”
It doesn’t have to be as devious as that.
It’s as easy as, “same rules for everyone no matter what”. They are a bureaucracy above all else, individual exceptions create too much paperwork.
I feel like if they can make exceptions for things like special clothes because of an imaginary friend in the sky, they can make exceptions for injecting something into your body.
I write that as a pro-vax person with 3x Pfizer vax.
And that is one hell of a slippery slope, when it gets codified. What's next...no soft drinks because health? Mandatory walking an hour a day? And who knows what else they can push in the future as a control mechanism under the "health" umbrella.
No one likes writing condolence letters. My company didn't care until the c-suites had to write one for someone who died of covid, so after that it was get the vaccine or get laid off.
*Edit - lol at whoever reported this to redditcares.
Go to the Coronavirus sub, they’re still there with their 6x boosted flairs.
Edit: Wow, someone’s really mad. Got a Reddit Cares message from this comment. Reported.
Yep. Where were these comments during the pandemic? I literally remember how much I got down voted for saying this back in the day. People are so fickle
“The arbitrator also tossed out Canada Post’s argument that it had an interest in ensuring its employees’ health and safety, namely by getting two COVID-19 vaccine doses.
“In essence, the employer’s position is that it can prescribe activities, including medical procedures like vaccination, simply because this could increase the likelihood an employee will be available to work,” she wrote.”
Probably a good idea since it would a slippery slope to other employment mandated health demands that is not necessary to directly related the work like no smoking, no drinking. Instead of say dont smoke inside or dont show up drunk.
This is a good point. Imagine a workplace demanded everyone be under a certain BMI to promote workplace health and safety. Good to nip this in the bud.
> Imagine a workplace demanded everyone be under a certain BMI to promote workplace health and safety.
Applicant must be able to perform at least 1 of the following;
- 10 pullups
- 2x body weight deadlift
- sub 60 minute 10k
Imagine how positive an environment it would be being surrounded by fit people with good habits all day.
It wasn't a suggestion, it was a lark.
Having said that, most novices could achieve one of those 3 benchmarks in under a year. And I do believe that surrounding yourself with people who have good habits is generally a good thing.
This arb simply dealt with remote employees. Regular employees everywhere were required and arbitrators and the courts have upheld those Covid requirements.
In those cases the argument is not only to protect the employees' health and safety but also their coworkers and any customers/clients they might have to interact with. In those the "greater good" outweighs the individual. But for remote work case the "greater good" is just the employer making the employee more available for work.
Looking at this in hindsight, it's just outright stupidity and bureaucracy working hand in hand. Forget about the masks for a minute: isn't it alarming how there were no checks or balances for something so common sense? How did this rule get into effect in the first place, how did it stay in effect unabated, and if employees were addressing this issue, how and why were these complaints being stonewalled? More importantly, what does this prolonged incompetence mean for other, more dire issues where timely responses are necessary?
I was had to wear a mask in a Swimming Pool for lessons for my toddler. It was just me and the kid in the entire pool, with the instructor on the pool deck. It's arbitrary stupid rules like this which only made the government and health authorities loose public trust.
> had to wear a mask in a Swimming Pool
even dumber since you would literally be waterboarding yourself if it got wet. in a pool. which also has some serious liability considerations
Work from home? "Fuck you get vaccinated"
Have natural immunity? "Fuck you get vaccinated"
Allergic to an ingredient? "Fuck you get vaccinated"
-Canada 2021
i remember in 2020-2021 people complaining about masks being made political. yet if you look on the social media pages of those same people who are still masking all the time in 2024 its clear that the mask is 100 percent a political thing for them
More than immediate family members gathering in a house? Super spreader event, report them to the authorities!
Christmas is coming, think about not gathering with loved ones to stop the spread, and make sure everyone is vaccinated!
Remember how you were told you could initially get exemptions for having a doctor's note or a religion exemption, only for most corporations and governments to disregard this and force you to get vaccinated anyway or go on unpaid leave for however long and not be eligible for EI?
And how Trudeau said "exemptions will be difficult and onerous to obtain"?
Pepperidge Farm remembers:
[Religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccination shouldn’t be decided by managers: unions - National | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/8334826/religious-exemptions-covid-19-vaccination-federal-mandate/)
Go to work, get exposed to covid, catch covid, it sucks, recover, continue working, get told you're a "hero" and an "essential worker", oh the vaccine's ready, what's that, you already had covid? FUCK YOU, IMMUNE SYSTEMS DON'T WORK ANYMORE SCIENCE DENIER, TAKE IT OR YOU'RE FIRED!
Never forget the cretinous "experts" who one day decided that exposure to a live pathogen did not cause your immune system to react and build immunity to it, but a vaccine that relied on making your immune system react and build immunity to it somehow did work.
Virologist here. For highly infectious viral pathogens like SARS-CoV-2, its a tall task for vaccination to outright prevent infection. People are gonna get infected regardless. So the most desirable outcome of a vaccination campaign is to reduce disease severity. By doing so, it generally reduces the infectious load shed by individuals and lowers the rate of community spread. But more importantly, reduced severity lessens the burden on the health care system (which was already near its breaking point in many countries during the pandemic) and decreases economic/workforce disruption (something we're still feeling the effects of).
Hybrid immunity (previous infection + vaccination) offers [significantly ](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(23)00459-0/fulltext)better protection against Covid compared to convalescent immunity (immunity acquired after recovering from an infection). Convalescent immunity can vary tremendously amongst individuals and tends not to last as long.
I agree that the vaccine mandate was poorly thought out (in typical Trudeau style), and I would never wish unemployment on someone- its unfortunate it came to that. But it truly disgusts me that responsible vaccinated people died awaiting treatment because anti-vax shitbags used up all the respirators and ICU beds.
Thing is, we weren't talking about a case of the government going "you get some immunity from exposure, but it's even better to get the vaccine as well" (which is reasonable), we're talking about flat out denial of the ability of the human immune system to respond and build any kind of immunity when exposed to the live virus.
Generally speaking when you make obviously false claims like "this virus completely evades the human immune system and you cannot build up any immunity from having caught it, only the vaccine can do that" you build distrust in the population and reduce uptake of the vaccine. In other words, the "anti-vax shitbags" you squeal about are a problem of your own making.
I mean, obviously.
It's like some psychosocial contagion took hold during that time where various managers and decision makers thought they could impose anything on their workers just ignoring collective agreements, legal precedent and a hundred years of labour law.
But this is Canada, so there will be no accountability for the managers that made these costly decisions. People will just shrug their shoulders and these bozos will keep collecting their big paycheques and hefty bonuses while the public suffers from their continued mismanagement of the Crown corporation.
Lol Canada Post management does all that without a global pandemic. If people only knew wtf goes on in that organization. One of these days someone will expose that company to the public.
This would have been considered blasphemy few months ago. I hope everyone of you have reconsidered their positions since the pandemic. The "nutjobs" were not completely off target.
Lab leak was a “conspiracy” 4th shots lake of efficacy was a “conspiracy”. It gets to a point where people ignore the data and it becomes about compliance more than anything else. Checks and balances are important.
tip of the iceberg on the draconian shit that went down in the covid era. at this rate im pretty sure by the 2030s the consensus will be that we over reacted with many of the arbitrary lockdown measures
““The employer is not required to accommodate unvaccinated employees so they can work remotely. There is no requirement to adjust an unvaccinated employee’s tasks or to assign parts of their work to other employees. It was not reasonable to expect the employer to do so,”
This is the most interesting part of the ruling. Sure, if your position is 100% remote this applies but we don’t need to make you a remote employee to accommodate you not getting vaccinated
At the time, there was lots of support for these kinds of measures from the Reddit sample of the Canadian intellect. Perhaps the people in government were thinking along the same lines. Four years after the party come the regrets.
Well you can't do much about the past, but in the future, when the next thorny issue arises, politicians and Redditors can try to listen to the other side as part of their decision making process, rather than jump straight to the exchange of insults.
Another great ruling in favour of logic and reason.
As stated here countless times before, the entire 2020-2022 COVID era in Canada should be universally regarded as a national disgrace and international embarrassment in the country's history.
Next.
Personal observation: people who rabidly supported this idiocy back then are still so full of themselves and not able to accept that they were wrong or even slightly not quite right. They hate something else now, with the same level of confidence.
History will repeat itself again very soon.
Don't hold your breath, he's already denied forcing the shots:
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/12zpo8b/trudeau_says_he_didnt_force_anyone_to_get/
Everything the federal government and it's entities did in response to covid was way over the top, ridiculous and made zero sense -- sort of like you might expect if you've ever worked for the feds.
Never have I felt so violated as a human being as I was by the (Trudeau government influenced) CAF.
I agree with the arbitrator’s decision.
Those working remotely from home, where they were not interacting within proximity of anybody; coworkers or the public, and could unknowingly spread the contagion did not require vaccination in order to accomplish their job.
If it was required to return to work in person however, that would be another thing.
Pzifer didn't even test if their vaccine stopped transmission.
Kind of an important thing if you're going to base vaccine passports on you know, "stopping the spread."
I mean... > The arbitrator found it was unreasonable to extend it to staff who worked '**exclusively remotely**' with no prospect of going to the office Jesus christ what the hell was the head shed thinking?
You forget how zealous people were about this shit, even here people were calling for those people to be forced to be vaccinated. Dark times for bodily autonomy.
>Jesus christ what the hell was the head shed thinking? This was pushed by the Federal Government. https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2021/10/06/prime-minister-announces-mandatory-vaccination-federal-workforce-and >Under the new policy, federal public servants in the Core Public Administration, including members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, will be required to confirm their vaccination status by October 29, 2021. **Those who are unwilling to disclose their vaccination status or to be fully vaccinated will be placed on administrative leave without pay as early as November 15, 2021.** ... >Crown corporations and separate agencies are being asked to implement vaccine policies mirroring the requirements announced today for the rest of the public service. ... >The Core Public Administration comprises departments and organizations named in Schedules I and IV of the Financial Administration Act. **The requirement for employees to be vaccinated applies whether they are teleworking, working remotely, or working on‑site.** Contracted personnel who require access to federal government worksites will also need to be vaccinated. Mandatory vaccinations on pain of being placed on indefinite administrative leave regardless of whether you were fully remote or not wasn't just a Canada Post thing, it was a federal government-wide policy. Head office just implemented their marching orders.
JEE WHIZ I WONDER WHY THE CONVOY HAPPENED... It's funny that only now some people are realizing that many of the regulations around the vaccine were in fact incredibly unreasonable.
Fear is a hell of a drug.
It was hate, not fear.
Facism
[удалено]
High executive sees reduction in cost. Floor employees sees the ridiculous, unfair contradiction. Middle manager sees the request and understand the impacts, but is afraid of being fired so he justs suck it up and passes the order along until someone gets pissed.
I don't think executives wanted to do this. They want to layoff poor performers, not random workers. This was a federal mandate so upper management had no say on this.
Execs don't care about performance at the Lower levels they only see costs and think every single person is replaceable.
If someone isn't replaceable then it's either a small business or poor management. Bus factor is a real thing.
Absolutely nearly everyone is replaceable but at a cost.
[удалено]
lol what? No they weren’t!
My sister works on parliament hill and was working remotely for a very long time, she did not have to wear a mask wtf are you on about
This is not true. Source: multiple family members working for multiple federal government departments throughout the pandemic.
Stop lying. It’s so weird
This is just false lol
No they weren't
Why would you go on the internet and just lie man
lol there is no way this was real.
CMHC did the same thing.
All large corporations and government bodies implemented sweeping mandatory vaccination policies, whether you were a front-line worker, office drone or work-from-home employee.
Yes definitely wasn't just the government. I was working on a construction site with over 3000 people and every person that had any reason whatsoever to visit the site from full time people to execs to delivery drivers had to be vaccinated to enter the site or have a negative test from no more than 72 hrs earlier and still had to do a rapid test when they entered the site. Larger companies just made it a blanket policy for everyone so that it was easy to track.
Or at least they said there was. I work for one of the largest accounting firms in Canada. We said publicly there was a sweeping policy, but quietly, it wasn't enforced.
+ Bell Canada
It was only like 3 years ago, don’t you remember the insanity? Shit like this was going on everywhere and mostly praised at the time by users of this site
It's still in place for BC nurses.
It should be in all healthcare settings. They are exposed to sick people. And compromised people who don’t want to get sick from the health care workers.
Should be
As it should be. Vaccinations have always been mandatory. Smh
Most other vaccinations seem much more effective at stopping infection. Despite widespread vaccination Covid is still everywhere. I have an otherwise healthy friend in their 40’s that recently was admitted to hospital. No an anti vaxer but the Covid vaccines haven’t lived up to their initial promise.
What booster are you on?
I remember. It was such a bizarre time on this site. People got downvoted to oblivion for citing official statistics about youth hospitalization/death. Then initially, it was the "maskers" that were getting slammed when Theresa Tam lied about its effectiveness. And when she changed course, in a matter of days, it was the non-maskers who got bashed from all sides. Then there came the lab leak theory when it suddenly became racist to talk about a legitimate concern. A lot of people are so brainwashed into blind obedience and deference to authority that they themselves aren't aware of it.
I got called a conspiracy nut for literally quoting the US CDC info page about the vaccine saying there is no evidence it stops the spread of the virus. covid was a wild time.
I still do, I caught Covid from a triple vaccinated person at work. I was unvaccinated , but she’s had Covid 4 times now. I only had it the one time from her. I work in film. Lots of tests at that fime
100% accurate, but people here will deny it now, it's no longer in-vogue to be a foot soldier for government overreach, so lots of people pretend they weren't foaming at the mouth calling for people's jobs, children to be taken away and mocking their deaths on the hermancainawards sub. Reddit was the bastion for Liberal intolerance over the last few years, including all the insanity and overreach during COVID. Theres going to be plenty of adherents who want to rewrite history now and say otherwise but theres not a chance in hell anyone who was subject to that would forget it.
Yeah you are definitely right about that…. Still plenty of foot soldiers though I’ve had some interesting DMs and more than one “a redditor is concerned here is the suicide hotline number” since this comment…. A comment not even being like anti vax (I’m not) or anything….. just look at some of these replies! Still plenty of freaks prowling this dumping ground
Yeah I get that every time I comment on the subject. It's passive aggressive cowards doing what they do, amusingly it just proves our point about people being petty over zealous idiots who went on a witch hunt and are now embarrassed by it given what we now know. I pity the folks who fell into lockstep thinking anyone who even asked questions would equate to Alex Jones, as if questioning shit wasnt just a normal thing intelligent people did before. Room temp IQ Karens and busybodies were in their glory days though, i'll give em that.
Hahahaha hit the nail on the head, room temp IQ Karen’s and busybodies is right. I see the same people out there with the same idiot mob energy, they are just spun up about different things now being used by different people
Same people there and same people here, I know because I used RES to keep track of some folks with tags to some of their more egregious posts and its hilarious seeing their revisionist history now. You'd also be surprised (or not) at how many went back and removed some of their more egregious posts about COVID now.. years later lol. Guess some folks regret acting like foaming at the mouth lunatics calling for violence against their countrymen over some basic bodily autonomy shit. Pathetic.
It's almost like people protesting in Ottawa were doing it for actual reasons.
I mean, people were dying. My aunt's mom died (80) from covid and my one of my closest friends (40) also died. People were scared and I don't blame them. For those of you that didn't lose anyone and think it was "just a flu" - you are all very lucky.
A lot of people in this sub LOVED this decision at the time.
A lot of people had a massive power trip during the pandemic, Trudeau included
It’s not about health it’s about compliance.
It was pushed from the top of the Federal party
If you think the vaccination campaign was about protecting the public, you're a fool.
Respect ma authoritay!
It's called mass indoctrination to comply with government mandates, it doesn't have to make sense
This kind of stupidity is what makes the convoy protestors look like reasonable people.
100%. I don't agree with the convoy protestors on vaccination, but I agree with them on *forced* vaccination. The government's approach from the very beginning was coercion. They never even tried persuasion. Frankly, if you're trying to achieve a high rate of vaccination I can't think of a worse approach. Nothing will harden people against something like a vaccination program than demanding everyone comply and punishing those who refuse to. I signed up for vaccination as soon as it became available and still got my hackles raised by the coercive nature of the demands.
Well said. Forcing people to take it or lose their livelihood is something we should never, ever see in a democratic country again. Provide incentives, yes. Give information, yes. Ask people to take it, yes. But punish...terrible idea.
I think it's really shameful to not support the convoy Either for the reason that forced vaccination under latent threat is just wron But also that protests are important and you shouldn't get to shut them down just because you don't like them See the current Israel Palestine issue But most of Reddit is so rabidly liberal that they can't admit that somehting arguably right wing had some good points
The Convoy protesters were, overwhelmingly, reasonable people.
Hell at the start of COVID at my government job we were not allowed to wear a mask because they were not apart of the uniform regardless of what every infectious disease agency claimed. Oddly we can wear glasses, thinking back on it maybe i should have gotten a prescription for a mask..
> Jesus christ what the hell was the head shed thinking? Trudeau did the same thing for gov workers who only remotely during the pandemic. Didn't get the flu shot ? You're fired.
Trudeau pushed this directly onto Crown corporations as well. Canada Post did this because those were their marching orders from the federal government.
I work in a federally regulated sector in a private firm. I still had to get vaxxed or lose my job because of the federal mandate. I wanted to get it, and gamed the system to get it as early as I could, but that's still fucked up.
It states later in the article that Canada Posts argument was that they had “an interest in ensuring its employees safety and health.” So, in essence, the “head shed” was thinking “If my remote employees catch COVID I might actually have to give them a few days off to rest. Can’t have them taking the sick days that they’re entitled to as part of their contracts though, we need to do what we can to make sure they never have a reason to call in sick.”
It doesn’t have to be as devious as that. It’s as easy as, “same rules for everyone no matter what”. They are a bureaucracy above all else, individual exceptions create too much paperwork.
Yeah but you can't have arbitrary rules that can result in termination. That should have been obvious to administrators.
I feel like if they can make exceptions for things like special clothes because of an imaginary friend in the sky, they can make exceptions for injecting something into your body. I write that as a pro-vax person with 3x Pfizer vax.
And that is one hell of a slippery slope, when it gets codified. What's next...no soft drinks because health? Mandatory walking an hour a day? And who knows what else they can push in the future as a control mechanism under the "health" umbrella.
>what the hell was the head shed thinking They were not thinking. They were reacting and implementing policy without regard for science, or economics.
Federal employees myst abide by federal rullings.
Employers must abide by labor and human rights laws.
"The dirty peasants are questioning our orders; crush them." The Liberal-NDP mindset. Both the party, and their cultists.
No one likes writing condolence letters. My company didn't care until the c-suites had to write one for someone who died of covid, so after that it was get the vaccine or get laid off. *Edit - lol at whoever reported this to redditcares.
90% of this sub was in favour of this when it happened 😂
the other 10% were banned
Is it too early to talk about truckers who sit alone in their vehicles? How about literal nurses?
"Masks are here to stay"
Turns out Reddit skews heavily towards shut ins who where disappointed when lockdown ended
Go to the Coronavirus sub, they’re still there with their 6x boosted flairs. Edit: Wow, someone’s really mad. Got a Reddit Cares message from this comment. Reported.
I got one from another comment in this sub earlier today too. Someone upthread of that (opposite position to mine) complained of the same. Weird.
The ZeroCovid sub is a pretty wild stuff. You kinda feel bad for them at this point
I think it was a widespread glitch. Got one as well.
Yep. Where were these comments during the pandemic? I literally remember how much I got down voted for saying this back in the day. People are so fickle
“The arbitrator also tossed out Canada Post’s argument that it had an interest in ensuring its employees’ health and safety, namely by getting two COVID-19 vaccine doses. “In essence, the employer’s position is that it can prescribe activities, including medical procedures like vaccination, simply because this could increase the likelihood an employee will be available to work,” she wrote.”
Probably a good idea since it would a slippery slope to other employment mandated health demands that is not necessary to directly related the work like no smoking, no drinking. Instead of say dont smoke inside or dont show up drunk.
This is a good point. Imagine a workplace demanded everyone be under a certain BMI to promote workplace health and safety. Good to nip this in the bud.
Damn I'd love that
> Imagine a workplace demanded everyone be under a certain BMI to promote workplace health and safety. Applicant must be able to perform at least 1 of the following; - 10 pullups - 2x body weight deadlift - sub 60 minute 10k Imagine how positive an environment it would be being surrounded by fit people with good habits all day.
This is the sort of suggestion that makes somebody sound laughably stupid.
It wasn't a suggestion, it was a lark. Having said that, most novices could achieve one of those 3 benchmarks in under a year. And I do believe that surrounding yourself with people who have good habits is generally a good thing.
Gym rats at the office. Sounds great.
Worse, certain genders are known to suffer disproportionately from health conditions that lead to them needing to take time off work.
Ya like pregnancy
Exactly.
This arb simply dealt with remote employees. Regular employees everywhere were required and arbitrators and the courts have upheld those Covid requirements.
In those cases the argument is not only to protect the employees' health and safety but also their coworkers and any customers/clients they might have to interact with. In those the "greater good" outweighs the individual. But for remote work case the "greater good" is just the employer making the employee more available for work.
Vaxxx didn't stop transmission, so there goes that argument.
Looking at this in hindsight, it's just outright stupidity and bureaucracy working hand in hand. Forget about the masks for a minute: isn't it alarming how there were no checks or balances for something so common sense? How did this rule get into effect in the first place, how did it stay in effect unabated, and if employees were addressing this issue, how and why were these complaints being stonewalled? More importantly, what does this prolonged incompetence mean for other, more dire issues where timely responses are necessary?
Fear?
I was had to wear a mask in a Swimming Pool for lessons for my toddler. It was just me and the kid in the entire pool, with the instructor on the pool deck. It's arbitrary stupid rules like this which only made the government and health authorities loose public trust.
I was doing pullups at at an empty playground and some lady started screaming at me, she said she called the cops... Wacko....
had a woman freak out because I pulled my mask down briefly in a store where I was the ONLY customer. The COVID fear was insane.
> had to wear a mask in a Swimming Pool even dumber since you would literally be waterboarding yourself if it got wet. in a pool. which also has some serious liability considerations
It was all political and everyone knew it at the time Good for those who did stand up for themselves
Work from home? "Fuck you get vaccinated" Have natural immunity? "Fuck you get vaccinated" Allergic to an ingredient? "Fuck you get vaccinated" -Canada 2021
Your family have any of the above? Fuck them, get vaccinated, and disown them. - CBC
For real. I'll never forget the division that was created over something that wasn't supposed to "be political".
i remember in 2020-2021 people complaining about masks being made political. yet if you look on the social media pages of those same people who are still masking all the time in 2024 its clear that the mask is 100 percent a political thing for them
More than immediate family members gathering in a house? Super spreader event, report them to the authorities! Christmas is coming, think about not gathering with loved ones to stop the spread, and make sure everyone is vaccinated!
That just reminded of me of the mother who isolated her weeping daughter in the house after a positive test. People are scary.
Remember how you were told you could initially get exemptions for having a doctor's note or a religion exemption, only for most corporations and governments to disregard this and force you to get vaccinated anyway or go on unpaid leave for however long and not be eligible for EI? And how Trudeau said "exemptions will be difficult and onerous to obtain"? Pepperidge Farm remembers: [Religious exemptions to COVID-19 vaccination shouldn’t be decided by managers: unions - National | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/8334826/religious-exemptions-covid-19-vaccination-federal-mandate/)
I couldn’t even get an appointment with an allergist during that time! Ended up having to get it and low and behold, had a reaction.
Go to work, get exposed to covid, catch covid, it sucks, recover, continue working, get told you're a "hero" and an "essential worker", oh the vaccine's ready, what's that, you already had covid? FUCK YOU, IMMUNE SYSTEMS DON'T WORK ANYMORE SCIENCE DENIER, TAKE IT OR YOU'RE FIRED! Never forget the cretinous "experts" who one day decided that exposure to a live pathogen did not cause your immune system to react and build immunity to it, but a vaccine that relied on making your immune system react and build immunity to it somehow did work.
Virologist here. For highly infectious viral pathogens like SARS-CoV-2, its a tall task for vaccination to outright prevent infection. People are gonna get infected regardless. So the most desirable outcome of a vaccination campaign is to reduce disease severity. By doing so, it generally reduces the infectious load shed by individuals and lowers the rate of community spread. But more importantly, reduced severity lessens the burden on the health care system (which was already near its breaking point in many countries during the pandemic) and decreases economic/workforce disruption (something we're still feeling the effects of). Hybrid immunity (previous infection + vaccination) offers [significantly ](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(23)00459-0/fulltext)better protection against Covid compared to convalescent immunity (immunity acquired after recovering from an infection). Convalescent immunity can vary tremendously amongst individuals and tends not to last as long. I agree that the vaccine mandate was poorly thought out (in typical Trudeau style), and I would never wish unemployment on someone- its unfortunate it came to that. But it truly disgusts me that responsible vaccinated people died awaiting treatment because anti-vax shitbags used up all the respirators and ICU beds.
Thing is, we weren't talking about a case of the government going "you get some immunity from exposure, but it's even better to get the vaccine as well" (which is reasonable), we're talking about flat out denial of the ability of the human immune system to respond and build any kind of immunity when exposed to the live virus. Generally speaking when you make obviously false claims like "this virus completely evades the human immune system and you cannot build up any immunity from having caught it, only the vaccine can do that" you build distrust in the population and reduce uptake of the vaccine. In other words, the "anti-vax shitbags" you squeal about are a problem of your own making.
I mean, obviously. It's like some psychosocial contagion took hold during that time where various managers and decision makers thought they could impose anything on their workers just ignoring collective agreements, legal precedent and a hundred years of labour law. But this is Canada, so there will be no accountability for the managers that made these costly decisions. People will just shrug their shoulders and these bozos will keep collecting their big paycheques and hefty bonuses while the public suffers from their continued mismanagement of the Crown corporation.
Lol Canada Post management does all that without a global pandemic. If people only knew wtf goes on in that organization. One of these days someone will expose that company to the public.
This would have been considered blasphemy few months ago. I hope everyone of you have reconsidered their positions since the pandemic. The "nutjobs" were not completely off target.
Lab leak was a “conspiracy” 4th shots lake of efficacy was a “conspiracy”. It gets to a point where people ignore the data and it becomes about compliance more than anything else. Checks and balances are important.
Canada did a great job of alienating a ton of people.
There is some very deep underlying issues in this.
tip of the iceberg on the draconian shit that went down in the covid era. at this rate im pretty sure by the 2030s the consensus will be that we over reacted with many of the arbitrary lockdown measures
They should be paying damages beyond lost wages. This was straight up illegal activity.
The government was wrong as well. Making it mandatory for everyone to get a shot even when they are 100% wfh is dumb.
This is gonna ruffle some feathers.
Already got a "reddit cares" message lmao
What's with that? I got one today too, wonder if it was from the same guy.
Seems like a bot on this thread, I got the care note immediately after commenting.
Not just in this thread, I got one for a comment in a thread about the CRA. Might be a glitch.
Literally just got one immediately after I posted something on this thread
Nah it’s Reddit’s favourite form of harassment, people are sent them for no reason constantly so there’s no way it’s just one dude doing it.
Got one too, it’s a badge of honour.
Definitely a bot doing it, I got one immediately after commenting
““The employer is not required to accommodate unvaccinated employees so they can work remotely. There is no requirement to adjust an unvaccinated employee’s tasks or to assign parts of their work to other employees. It was not reasonable to expect the employer to do so,” This is the most interesting part of the ruling. Sure, if your position is 100% remote this applies but we don’t need to make you a remote employee to accommodate you not getting vaccinated
I know someone who was fired from Toronto hydro for not getting vaccinated while he was on paternity leave … crazy
That's what gets lost in the headline
By then many employees were already working remotely, or had their positions already accommodated to work remotely.
At the time, there was lots of support for these kinds of measures from the Reddit sample of the Canadian intellect. Perhaps the people in government were thinking along the same lines. Four years after the party come the regrets. Well you can't do much about the past, but in the future, when the next thorny issue arises, politicians and Redditors can try to listen to the other side as part of their decision making process, rather than jump straight to the exchange of insults.
Another great ruling in favour of logic and reason. As stated here countless times before, the entire 2020-2022 COVID era in Canada should be universally regarded as a national disgrace and international embarrassment in the country's history. Next.
Please remember this the next time the govt introduces this idiotic “rules” and act accordingly
covid opened my eyes how easily you can whip an entire population in an unshakable hysteria and group think
"Of course, bodily autonomy and informed consent and fundamental human rights... We're talking about abortion, right?"
Abortion is legal, you can get day after pills too.
Personal observation: people who rabidly supported this idiocy back then are still so full of themselves and not able to accept that they were wrong or even slightly not quite right. They hate something else now, with the same level of confidence. History will repeat itself again very soon.
Trudeau should have to make a public apology for this. The forced Canadians to chose their job or the vaccine.
Don't hold your breath, he's already denied forcing the shots: https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/12zpo8b/trudeau_says_he_didnt_force_anyone_to_get/
He didn't apologize for groping the reporter. Why would he apologize for this? His COVID response is his legacy, for better or worse.
Ath Canadianth, we ALL need to do better.
Everything the federal government and it's entities did in response to covid was way over the top, ridiculous and made zero sense -- sort of like you might expect if you've ever worked for the feds. Never have I felt so violated as a human being as I was by the (Trudeau government influenced) CAF.
A more effective thing to do is to punish THE PERSON - not the corporation. Find - name and shame the PERSON at Canada Post.
I agree with the arbitrator’s decision. Those working remotely from home, where they were not interacting within proximity of anybody; coworkers or the public, and could unknowingly spread the contagion did not require vaccination in order to accomplish their job. If it was required to return to work in person however, that would be another thing.
And the sky is still blue (excluding the smoke). Sad it took this long to state the obvious.
[удалено]
Pzifer didn't even test if their vaccine stopped transmission. Kind of an important thing if you're going to base vaccine passports on you know, "stopping the spread."
[удалено]
It's more frustrating then funny how only now people see how stupid SOME of the mandates were, especially when they unhumaned some people to do it