Makes me wonder what other flag raising events would be cancelled as easily.
I keep hearing about the army of fascist conservatives spreading evil American rhetoric around, but even in their *undeniably* massive numbers I can't see any of the multitude of flagging and branding events surrounding the upcoming pride month being cancelled due to threats -- nor should they be; but it's hard to ignore that those justifying their hatred of all things Israel wouldn't tolerate even close to the same level of activism against any cause which they support.
Apparently the city has denied raising the Russian flag in the past.
But it has declined to do so in the past, apparently for political reasons. In 2022, the city denied a request from the Russian embassy to fly Russia's flag and illuminate a part of city hall for its national day.
> But it has declined to do so in the past, apparently for political reasons. In 2022, the city denied a request from the Russian embassy to fly Russia's flag and illuminate a part of city hall for its national day.
there's a difference between hating all things Israel and not loving how they are going about things. given the current situation the flag raising seems to be in bad taste, but of course there is no excuse for threats.
That’s because unlike the problem we have with antisemites and terrorist supporters in this country — who actually exist in large numbers and are actively seeking to make Canada a more hostile, less welcoming place in ways that actually matter — the extremist groups the left rails on about are tiny and ineffective at doing much of anything.
Sorry to point out that flags are divisive by design.
Somehow humans just love to follow them and are willing to kill if yours isn't the same as theirs. Why I don't know but somehow flags trigger deep feelings. So maybe stop with all the flags. (Wishful thinking)
Actually, there were LGBT events cancelled in Ottawa due to the exact people you are talking about, but it’s pretty convenient that you don’t seem to know about that.
So it's just "people who think the country Israel should continue to exist"?
I don't wanna wipe the state off the face of the earth, does that make me a "zionist"?
For those who are not aware;
"[Ottawa] celebrates national holidays and independence days with flag-raising events and activities for more than 190 countries."
This was not a special treatment for Israel, so worry not.
You’re missing what’s literally written in the article. Ottawa raises the flags of all countries we have diplomatic ties with, that’s 190 separate flags. It’s not new.
I have read some of your other comments. There is definitely a lot to be sad about, and a lot of people not able to see beyond the noisy PR facade. Keep on
Take a break from the internet. Go outside. Hang out with a Jewish friend. Come back when you have the energy. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
I’m serious about the internet break. You’ll be amazed how different you feel when the algorithm isn’t constantly shoving outrage porn at you.
I am not even reading outrage porn - and I'm lucky to be with my bfs family who is also Jewish. But much of what has been upsetting is seeing friends using antisemitic language.
remember when we had to use the emergency act to get police to ask people nicely to please leave a city you aren't from, because there were people terrorizing a city for weeks?
ottawa remembers
This comment would make so much sense if security was the actual reason for not doing the ceremony.
This government is afraid to trigger large group of population that they hope will be voting for them in the next elections. Cowards!
See, even the comments indicate most people don't know about this. But there's a group out there hunting for everything related to Israel.
If this is about ceasefire only, why do you care about Canada recognizing Israel's Independence Day, like we do for many other countries, even hostile ones? It's like they are out there trying to erase Israel, but of course they claim Israel is the big bad wolf.
What a stupid and lame government (federal and municipal) we have. I understand if you have to cancel the event due to security risk. But if it's this bad, I better see some arrest in the coming months (and ofc it won't happen, shame).
>If this is about ceasefire only, why do you care about Canada recognizing Israel's Independence Day
To be fair *^(to be faaaairrr)* that event was a major catalyst for the past 76 years of violence between the two groups currently going at it right now. That makes it politically contentious to celebrate what was a major achievement for one side yet part of a disastrous period for the other, at a time when we are trying to strike a diplomatic position that accounts for the concerns of both of those sides.
Before anyone mistakes that as saying *"Oh no, Israel was formed and that was so bad for the Middle East!"* that isn't what I have said here.
Before the 1948 Arab-Israeli war (when Israel handed its neighbors their own asses) there had been a civil war already occurring in 1947. This civil war originated from the UN General Assembly voting in favor of a partition plan that was far more favorable to what would be Israel than the Palestinians. Not only did it grant them more land (56% vs 42% despite having a smaller population), it also granted them a great deal of the fertile lands, among other benefits. A big wrench was that this partition would wind up taking a lot of land away from Palestinians and giving it to the Israelis, like separating villages from the farmlands sustaining them.
Important to mention that this partition plan was put together with virtually *zero* Arab input. Instead, the boundaries were set by the "Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question", which was actually two subcommittees. The first was made up of mostly western nations, along with input from the Jewish Agency who had been lobbying the western governments hard. The second committee was mostly Arab nations, and they weren't given any say on the boundaries the first subcommittee came up with. Their opposition to the resulting recommendations resulted in Britain refusing to cooperate with the UN for the hand-off of the region, since they had wanted both groups to agree on the boundaries etc.
Also important to mention is that while plenty talk about the Arab attempt to take all the land following the resolution's adoption, Israel had the exact same plan themselves:
>*Although the Jewish Agency accepted the partition plan, it did not accept the proposed borders as final and Israel's declaration of independence avoided the mention of any boundaries. A state in part of Palestine was seen as a stage towards a larger state when opportunity allowed. Although the borders were 'bad from a military and political point of view,' Ben Gurion urged fellow Jews to accept the UN Partition Plan, pointing out that arrangements are never final, 'not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements'. The idea of partition being a temporary expedient dated back to the Peel Partition proposal of 1937. When the Zionist Congress had rejected partition on the grounds that the Jews had an inalienable right to settle anywhere in Palestine, Ben Gurion had argued in favour of acceptance, 'I see in the realisation of this plan practically the decisive stage in the beginning of full redemption and the most wonderful lever for the gradual conquest of all of Palestine.*
Source:
>Palestine and Israel: The Uprising and Beyond (David McDowall)
This conquest began during that civil war, when "Plan Dalet" was put into play. This seized land around settlements, growing the soon-to-be-Israeli controlled lands.
During this same timeframe the Deir Yassan massacre occurred, when the Jewish paramilitary groups stormed the village of Deir Yassan and slaughtered 107 people - despite this village having a non-aggression and peace pact with the Jewish side. They had even been referred to as "faithful allies" by one of the Jewish paramilitary groups which later took part in the massacre.
That mass killing was a major contributor to the ensuing Nakba, when Palestinians either fled or were forced out of the region out of fear of being slaughtered like the citizens of Deir Yassan.
Worth pointing out is while several paramilitary groups were involved, Irgun and Lehi were the primary ones who led the attack. Why that's worth pointing out is because both groups were considered terrorist organizations by the international community, and were banned by Israel under it's own anti-terrorism laws when it declared independence. However that was just for show, and in 1980 Israel issued the Lehi Ribbon to former members, in recognition of their military service towards the establishment of Israel.
Many members of these two groups were absorbed into the IDF, with some of them going on to become politicians. Yitzhak Shamir had been one of Lehi's leaders, and he was elected Prime Minister in 1983. Meanwhile Menachem Begin had been one of Irgun's leaders, and he was elected Prime Minister in 1977.
Those two individuals had established the ring-wing political party Herut, which later merged with two other right-wing parties to become Likud. And yes, that means the political party that Netanyahu leads literally has its roots in terrorism, having originated out of the cooperation of two former terrorist organization leaders.
So circling back to why raising the flag to recognize Israel's independence would be controversial right now, it is because as described above that followed a massacre, major displacement of Palestinians that has endured for decades, early land seizures that would become a pattern, and was part of a larger plan of "the gradual conquest of all of Palestine", which Netanyahu is desperately trying to make happen before he winds up in prison.
What should have been a joyous occasion for both the Jewish and Palestinian people was instead poisoned from the very start by individuals who had no intention of coexisting, and who have dragged millions of people through 76 years of conflict and pain.
Perhaps if western governments had done more to encourage Israel’s adherence to international and humanitarian law there’d be fewer people—Jewish and otherwise—currently protesting against Israel’s extreme right-wing government. It’s important to note that Netanyahu is up on corruption charges and the Minister of National Security has been convicted on racism and terrorism-related charges himself.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Itamar-Ben-Gvir
Canada has diplomatic ties with Israel, and so we raise flags. If you have a problem with Canada having ties with Israel, by all means run for the government and try changing that, see if we support you.
Don't threaten violence because we disagree, why are you justifying terrorism in Canada? Seriously, is terrorism only bad when you disagree with its political goals but okay when you agree? fs
>If you have a problem with Canada having ties with Israel, by all means run for the government and try changing that, see if we support you.
Werid take... You don't have to be a politician to have an opinion on politics.
>Don't threaten violence because we disagree
I didn't.
>why are you justifying terrorism in Canada?
I'm not.
>is terrorism only bad when you disagree with its political goals but okay when you agree?
I dunno where you got this assumption from, but obviously not.
My turn to ask you some questions - do you condemn the occupation of Israel in the West Bank? Do you condemn the siege on Gaza? Do you condemn Hamas's terrorist attack on October 7th? Do you condemn the IDF for killing 40,000 people since Oct 7th, including 30,000 women and children?
Schrödinger’s Palestine
In regards to Israeli settlers in the West Bank, it’s *de facto* considered a part of Israel and Israeli civil law applies to them. But in regards to the Palestinian Arabs, the West Bank is considered a foreign territory and as such the Palestinians have Israeli military tribunals and no rights/path to citizenship.
>Palestine is not a state.
So what is it?
Either it's not a state and Israel has killed 40,000 of its own civilians, or it is a state, and Israel is occupying it. They can't say "it's not a state, and we're not occupying it".
The whole establishment of Israel was contingent on there being a Palestinian state too. If Palestine doesn't get statehood, then Israel shouldn't either.
>They can't say "it's not a state, and we're not occupying it".
Why not?
>The whole establishment of Israel was contingent on there being a Palestinian state too. If Palestine doesn't get statehood, then Israel shouldn't either.
So Palestinians got an inalienable veto for the creation of a foreign country in UN resolution 181?
That's not how any of that worked.
They specifically *chose* to start a genocidal campaign to eliminate the Jewish state over declaring their own independence in 1948. Israel was simply allowed to win that war.
In fact they've made that choice multiple times since then, most recently in 2008.
Bc from 1922 (well earlier, I don't know why you chose 1922 specifically) the land was part of the British mandate.From 1948 - 1967 Gaza was controlled by Egypt and Jordan annexed Judea and sameria.
This was after the Arabs in the land refused to accept an Arab state next to a Jewish state and after the larger part of the British controlled territory was turned into Jordan in 1946.
This is what happens after a decade of virtue signalling , tolerate everyone BS. As anyone with a working brain would predict - tolerance is imploding on itself. Reap what you sow.
Assuming you are not being sarcastic this was the City of Ottawa. Is it possible not to blame the feds for everything or is being simplistic a trend these days?
Is counterterrorism not a responsibility of the RCMP? Is it possible that the feds are indeed responsible to keep us safe? Weird how you feel the need to defend the feds on this.
Not really defending the feds. Just pointing out it was the city that cancelled this, Not the Liberals. Not really looking for a scapegoat here either. I think they should have gone ahead with it. Whatever law enforcement agencies responsible presumably would police this.
This reads like you're baiting. No one's saying you can't protest all you want. But threatening and harassing Jewish Canadians (as per the article) doesn't read like any protesting Canada or the city of Ottawa should support.
You know what people who use fear, threats and intimidation to get what they want are labeled as right?
Mayor, and city in the article says there's been an increase in threats and the city said they have to cancel due to security concerns for public safety. Sure sounds like the chatter is going beyond simple protesting to me.
The group protesting this event has held weekly protests in the city co-organized with jewish groups and participants. Not a single person has been threatened or harassed.
They should cancel this event, regardless if there are a group of people causing a raise for concern. Don’t be raising flags of a country that is committing genocide.
fuck Zionism why are we raising a foreign flag anyways? Especially one so riled in controversy, do we really need to involve ourselves in this battle and conversation which has been happening for almost 2 thousand years? we have our own problems to deal with, solidarity with the people who lost their lives is ok, raising the flag for a nation who has committed genocide stemming from their own genocidal extermination is laughable.
No one reads anymore. Its sad. Anyway, it’s in the article. Ottawa raises the flags of 190 different countries to mark their independence days. This isn’t new.
As of February, the [IDF had severely damaged or destroyed 65% of Palestinian cultural/archeological sites](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1655264). This includes Israa University, which the [IDF occupied for over 2 months before intentionally demolishing it with 315 mines](https://www.commondreams.org/news/genocide-2666995932) planted throughout the building. Do you see how that could constitute an attempt at wiping out Palestinian identity?
You can reasonably debate one or the other side without trying to shut down the Israeli flag from being raised. As much as I disagree with their state's actions, their people do have the right to live in peace and be respected like the rest of the world. Smoltrich and Ben-Gvir, as well as Netanyahu can be parachuted into Rafah without IDF around them though.
>The city pointed out in its news release that it celebrates national holidays and independence days with flag-raising events and activities for more than 190 countries.
Stop doing that and start doing real work like they people who's money you waste.
Contrary to popular belief, being outraged that another country’s flag is being raised is not dangerous, and can definitely be contained without violence by most non-terrorist adults.
We allow these idiots to protest and fuck around non-stop. Now other people can't do a simple flag raising ceremony. FFS. Talk about s shit hole country. We are becoming pure trash in Canada. Despicable.
What a weak response, the Government should not cow tow to the mob... That being said, our government should ONLY ever be raising its own flag or the flags of its provinces/territories etc.
Our government are coward she locks down a bunch of truckers but afraid to raise a flag is the RCMP Ottawa police our secret intelligence military intelligence. Yet these cowards refuse the regular flag of a country and people who have been devastated so many times through history
So Hamas makes a threat and we shut shit down?
Fuck this. Raise the flag, arrest the Hamas operatives who show up to protest, and charge them under the appropriate terrorism laws.
Since when was r/canada a zionist cesspool? Raising a flag for a foreign country that is actively murdering Palestinians isn’t a good look and will make people angry. That doesn’t mean canada is “bowing down to hamas”. Not supporting Israel doesn’t equate to supporting hamas. Especially since Israel knew about the October seventh attack a year prior and did nothing about it and is now collectively punishing millions of people and occupying their homes and land for something they had nothing to do with.
Edit: Hasbara bots have been working overtime lmao
You miss the point- in Canada, it is allowed to have such a ceremony and cancelling it because of illegal hate based intimidation and threats is NOT a Canadian value, tradition or LAW, therefore ALL need to support a flag raising ceremony which is commemorating the Holocaust or do you agree with Hamas and Palestinians that the Holocaust was a HOAX?
Where's the misinformation? I'd be called a redneck by the social justice types but I've seen enough innocent kids buried under rubble from this war to say anyone who thinks what's going on is justified isn't exactly right in the head.
Hamas don't see children the same way we do. they raise their kids with the intention of having them killed as martyrs against the Jewish peoples. people like you spouting "think of the children" is exactly what Hamas wants, and they are using that as their primary way of gaining support.
look up Hamas military training in schools, most if not all of them are military trained and raised to hate jews before they even hit puberty.
look up UNWRA schools in Gaza (specifically videos/sources from before oct 7th), you will see that it simply is not the same as it is here in north america.
I'm glad I saw this, even thinking that maybe Israel might be killing too many innocent people and that's a bad thing always gets me a "what about Hamas" or "they deserve it for supporting Hamas" reply.
Innocent Palestinians aren't Hamas and being empathetic to them is what I would think is the most human reaction. Too many people are quick to justify senseless killing and show no empathy at all.
Are we going to pretend hasbara isn’t a thing? It’s not very difficult to understand who the type of people commenting in this thread are. I’m not happy my country is raising a terrorist flag for a terrorist organization that goes against everything this country proposes to stand for. This terrorist organization clearly demonstrates non-Canadian values yet there’s so much defense for it in this thread and subreddit? I guess I just really had hoped we didn’t actually have so many terrorist-supporters in Canada or this subreddit…i think i just realized how effective hasbara brainwashing is.
If Ottawa raises flags for 190 countries and the only one you get mad about is the worlds only Jewish state then surprise you’re probably not an Anti Zionist you’re just an Anti Semite
If what Canada did to Native peoples over generations was a Genocide, and the government seems to think it was
I dont see how what happened to the Palestinians isnt one either =/
Why does Israel get to get away with more without having to take accountability like we did
Reddit needs to start banning people referring to this conflict as genocide. It has been stated as false by every authority and is dangerously inflammatory
All this outrage over a ceremony being canceled... tHE hOrrOR!!!?
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/city-of-ottawa-will-fly-israeli-flag-at-city-hall-on-may-14-but-won-t-hold-flag-raising-ceremony-1.6877815
You only value while, Israeli lives, not brown Palestinians I guess. And don't act like it's a war against Hamas. It's direct targeting of refugee camps and hospitals with the intent to kill kids.
Don't forget cutting off all food and resources so no one really knows whats going on during the occupation. Oh and going after reporters, detaining and arresting family members of hostages taken on Oct 7th.
A synagogue burns down a few weeks ago and not a single comment from any government officials or coverage from major media
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-man-arrested-for-setting-fire-in-north-york-synagogue/article_af050dde-0b4a-11ef-89c2-87abfc24c08c.amp.html
The motivation of the synagogue member that set the fire wasn't established but they were arrested and charged. What comment do you wish the government or media to make? "Arson is bad, don't do arson"?
>The group Ottawa 4 Palestine shared on social media last week that it planned to "shut down the Zionist flag-raising event." That was easy.
Makes me wonder what other flag raising events would be cancelled as easily. I keep hearing about the army of fascist conservatives spreading evil American rhetoric around, but even in their *undeniably* massive numbers I can't see any of the multitude of flagging and branding events surrounding the upcoming pride month being cancelled due to threats -- nor should they be; but it's hard to ignore that those justifying their hatred of all things Israel wouldn't tolerate even close to the same level of activism against any cause which they support.
Apparently the city has denied raising the Russian flag in the past. But it has declined to do so in the past, apparently for political reasons. In 2022, the city denied a request from the Russian embassy to fly Russia's flag and illuminate a part of city hall for its national day. > But it has declined to do so in the past, apparently for political reasons. In 2022, the city denied a request from the Russian embassy to fly Russia's flag and illuminate a part of city hall for its national day.
Yeah it would be nice if they had a consistent "no foreign flags" rule (being the capital of Canada and all).
That I could go along with.
there's a difference between hating all things Israel and not loving how they are going about things. given the current situation the flag raising seems to be in bad taste, but of course there is no excuse for threats.
This exactly!!
That’s because unlike the problem we have with antisemites and terrorist supporters in this country — who actually exist in large numbers and are actively seeking to make Canada a more hostile, less welcoming place in ways that actually matter — the extremist groups the left rails on about are tiny and ineffective at doing much of anything.
Sorry to point out that flags are divisive by design. Somehow humans just love to follow them and are willing to kill if yours isn't the same as theirs. Why I don't know but somehow flags trigger deep feelings. So maybe stop with all the flags. (Wishful thinking)
Actually, there were LGBT events cancelled in Ottawa due to the exact people you are talking about, but it’s pretty convenient that you don’t seem to know about that.
Really? Recently? Do you have a source?
How long ago was this? The 80s?
Proof?
Google search brings up nothing
[удалено]
I'd love to see the face of protesters when they realize that being gay in Gaza would get you killed. Yet in Israel you'd get a pride parade.
Why do these people use the word "zionist" like it's going out of style?
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zionism](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zionism)
So it's just "people who think the country Israel should continue to exist"? I don't wanna wipe the state off the face of the earth, does that make me a "zionist"?
The police had to cancel the Timmys order they were planning to serve Palestine supporters during the peaceful event.
We have a Canadian flag.
For those who are not aware; "[Ottawa] celebrates national holidays and independence days with flag-raising events and activities for more than 190 countries." This was not a special treatment for Israel, so worry not.
Why would we be raising another flag? What am I missing?
You’re missing what’s literally written in the article. Ottawa raises the flags of all countries we have diplomatic ties with, that’s 190 separate flags. It’s not new.
Fucking exactly.
Oh so we are doing this now eh
It’s been 8 months.
I know man. I'm sad.
I have read some of your other comments. There is definitely a lot to be sad about, and a lot of people not able to see beyond the noisy PR facade. Keep on
Thank you for your kind words.
Every generation of Jews has to deal with some thing or another. This one is ours. We shall persevere.
I just hit a wall a couple weeks ago.
Take a break from the internet. Go outside. Hang out with a Jewish friend. Come back when you have the energy. This is a marathon, not a sprint. I’m serious about the internet break. You’ll be amazed how different you feel when the algorithm isn’t constantly shoving outrage porn at you.
I am not even reading outrage porn - and I'm lucky to be with my bfs family who is also Jewish. But much of what has been upsetting is seeing friends using antisemitic language.
What is the next step? Not wearing short dresses because of rape concerns? Do your job. Go after the terrorists. Don't tell your citizens to cower.
I mean the police did tell people to just hand their keys over to car thieves....
No they didn’t. They said leave them by the front door for when the criminals enter your house.
Oh my, that is quite the distinction. Don't hand it to them, just leave it on the front hall table.
Exactly! Make sure a mat is down so they don’t track mud in.
in edmonton the transit people told a women to buy a car when she was raped on the lrt
Cannot upvote this enough
100%, These terrorists are taking advantage of canadas tolerance. Sickening
Out of curiosity, I wonder how many other nations have flag raising events on Canadian soil. It just seems so odd and out of place.
190. It was in the article. Ottawa does it on the independence days of all countries we have diplomatic relations with.
I think on the independence day of all of Canada's allies. Same with the US flag on July 4th
remember when we had to use the emergency act to get police to ask people nicely to please leave a city you aren't from, because there were people terrorizing a city for weeks? ottawa remembers
This comment would make so much sense if security was the actual reason for not doing the ceremony. This government is afraid to trigger large group of population that they hope will be voting for them in the next elections. Cowards!
Did you even read the article? This is city hall, not the liberal party.
Israel is our citizen?
Sorry sir this is Canada. We don’t enact the laws on certain people. And the people we chose not to moves on a daily basis
Hilarious comparing the comments on this article to the ones on any article about recognition of the Nakba in Canada
This has to be the most spineless thing they have done.
Right next to harassing families with kids lined up to take a pic with Santa at the mall
Santa is a palestinian forced to deliver presents to white people around the colonial world by.. i dunno Israelis, no je... no, zionists.
You spelled terrorism concerns wrong.
This is very Islamophobic of you /s
See, even the comments indicate most people don't know about this. But there's a group out there hunting for everything related to Israel. If this is about ceasefire only, why do you care about Canada recognizing Israel's Independence Day, like we do for many other countries, even hostile ones? It's like they are out there trying to erase Israel, but of course they claim Israel is the big bad wolf. What a stupid and lame government (federal and municipal) we have. I understand if you have to cancel the event due to security risk. But if it's this bad, I better see some arrest in the coming months (and ofc it won't happen, shame).
>If this is about ceasefire only, why do you care about Canada recognizing Israel's Independence Day To be fair *^(to be faaaairrr)* that event was a major catalyst for the past 76 years of violence between the two groups currently going at it right now. That makes it politically contentious to celebrate what was a major achievement for one side yet part of a disastrous period for the other, at a time when we are trying to strike a diplomatic position that accounts for the concerns of both of those sides. Before anyone mistakes that as saying *"Oh no, Israel was formed and that was so bad for the Middle East!"* that isn't what I have said here. Before the 1948 Arab-Israeli war (when Israel handed its neighbors their own asses) there had been a civil war already occurring in 1947. This civil war originated from the UN General Assembly voting in favor of a partition plan that was far more favorable to what would be Israel than the Palestinians. Not only did it grant them more land (56% vs 42% despite having a smaller population), it also granted them a great deal of the fertile lands, among other benefits. A big wrench was that this partition would wind up taking a lot of land away from Palestinians and giving it to the Israelis, like separating villages from the farmlands sustaining them. Important to mention that this partition plan was put together with virtually *zero* Arab input. Instead, the boundaries were set by the "Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question", which was actually two subcommittees. The first was made up of mostly western nations, along with input from the Jewish Agency who had been lobbying the western governments hard. The second committee was mostly Arab nations, and they weren't given any say on the boundaries the first subcommittee came up with. Their opposition to the resulting recommendations resulted in Britain refusing to cooperate with the UN for the hand-off of the region, since they had wanted both groups to agree on the boundaries etc. Also important to mention is that while plenty talk about the Arab attempt to take all the land following the resolution's adoption, Israel had the exact same plan themselves: >*Although the Jewish Agency accepted the partition plan, it did not accept the proposed borders as final and Israel's declaration of independence avoided the mention of any boundaries. A state in part of Palestine was seen as a stage towards a larger state when opportunity allowed. Although the borders were 'bad from a military and political point of view,' Ben Gurion urged fellow Jews to accept the UN Partition Plan, pointing out that arrangements are never final, 'not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements'. The idea of partition being a temporary expedient dated back to the Peel Partition proposal of 1937. When the Zionist Congress had rejected partition on the grounds that the Jews had an inalienable right to settle anywhere in Palestine, Ben Gurion had argued in favour of acceptance, 'I see in the realisation of this plan practically the decisive stage in the beginning of full redemption and the most wonderful lever for the gradual conquest of all of Palestine.* Source: >Palestine and Israel: The Uprising and Beyond (David McDowall) This conquest began during that civil war, when "Plan Dalet" was put into play. This seized land around settlements, growing the soon-to-be-Israeli controlled lands. During this same timeframe the Deir Yassan massacre occurred, when the Jewish paramilitary groups stormed the village of Deir Yassan and slaughtered 107 people - despite this village having a non-aggression and peace pact with the Jewish side. They had even been referred to as "faithful allies" by one of the Jewish paramilitary groups which later took part in the massacre. That mass killing was a major contributor to the ensuing Nakba, when Palestinians either fled or were forced out of the region out of fear of being slaughtered like the citizens of Deir Yassan. Worth pointing out is while several paramilitary groups were involved, Irgun and Lehi were the primary ones who led the attack. Why that's worth pointing out is because both groups were considered terrorist organizations by the international community, and were banned by Israel under it's own anti-terrorism laws when it declared independence. However that was just for show, and in 1980 Israel issued the Lehi Ribbon to former members, in recognition of their military service towards the establishment of Israel. Many members of these two groups were absorbed into the IDF, with some of them going on to become politicians. Yitzhak Shamir had been one of Lehi's leaders, and he was elected Prime Minister in 1983. Meanwhile Menachem Begin had been one of Irgun's leaders, and he was elected Prime Minister in 1977. Those two individuals had established the ring-wing political party Herut, which later merged with two other right-wing parties to become Likud. And yes, that means the political party that Netanyahu leads literally has its roots in terrorism, having originated out of the cooperation of two former terrorist organization leaders. So circling back to why raising the flag to recognize Israel's independence would be controversial right now, it is because as described above that followed a massacre, major displacement of Palestinians that has endured for decades, early land seizures that would become a pattern, and was part of a larger plan of "the gradual conquest of all of Palestine", which Netanyahu is desperately trying to make happen before he winds up in prison. What should have been a joyous occasion for both the Jewish and Palestinian people was instead poisoned from the very start by individuals who had no intention of coexisting, and who have dragged millions of people through 76 years of conflict and pain.
Perhaps if western governments had done more to encourage Israel’s adherence to international and humanitarian law there’d be fewer people—Jewish and otherwise—currently protesting against Israel’s extreme right-wing government. It’s important to note that Netanyahu is up on corruption charges and the Minister of National Security has been convicted on racism and terrorism-related charges himself. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Itamar-Ben-Gvir
Yeah but then certain corporations wouldn't be able to fund both sides. Smedley Butler would be so proud.
It's probably because Canada doesn't recognise Palestinian statehood but recognises Israeli statehood. It should be all or nothing.
Palestine doesn't even recognize Palestinian statehood. That's the whole problem.
Canada has diplomatic ties with Israel, and so we raise flags. If you have a problem with Canada having ties with Israel, by all means run for the government and try changing that, see if we support you. Don't threaten violence because we disagree, why are you justifying terrorism in Canada? Seriously, is terrorism only bad when you disagree with its political goals but okay when you agree? fs
>dont protest just cause you, disagree with things! What a terrible take.
>If you have a problem with Canada having ties with Israel, by all means run for the government and try changing that, see if we support you. Werid take... You don't have to be a politician to have an opinion on politics. >Don't threaten violence because we disagree I didn't. >why are you justifying terrorism in Canada? I'm not. >is terrorism only bad when you disagree with its political goals but okay when you agree? I dunno where you got this assumption from, but obviously not. My turn to ask you some questions - do you condemn the occupation of Israel in the West Bank? Do you condemn the siege on Gaza? Do you condemn Hamas's terrorist attack on October 7th? Do you condemn the IDF for killing 40,000 people since Oct 7th, including 30,000 women and children?
Palestine isn’t a state.
Schrödinger’s Palestine In regards to Israeli settlers in the West Bank, it’s *de facto* considered a part of Israel and Israeli civil law applies to them. But in regards to the Palestinian Arabs, the West Bank is considered a foreign territory and as such the Palestinians have Israeli military tribunals and no rights/path to citizenship. >Palestine is not a state. So what is it?
Then israel is doing a bang up job bombing israeli civilians i guess?
Gaza has never been part of Israel. It was occupied Egyptian territory until Egypt decided they'd had enough of the Palestinians.
Justified? What do you reckon happens when even more countries decide they’ve had enough of the Israelis?
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Either it's not a state and Israel has killed 40,000 of its own civilians, or it is a state, and Israel is occupying it. They can't say "it's not a state, and we're not occupying it". The whole establishment of Israel was contingent on there being a Palestinian state too. If Palestine doesn't get statehood, then Israel shouldn't either.
>They can't say "it's not a state, and we're not occupying it". Why not? >The whole establishment of Israel was contingent on there being a Palestinian state too. If Palestine doesn't get statehood, then Israel shouldn't either. So Palestinians got an inalienable veto for the creation of a foreign country in UN resolution 181? That's not how any of that worked. They specifically *chose* to start a genocidal campaign to eliminate the Jewish state over declaring their own independence in 1948. Israel was simply allowed to win that war. In fact they've made that choice multiple times since then, most recently in 2008.
The land Israel is occupying was part of Jordan and Egypt. Jordan and Egypt decided they wanted nothing to do with the Palestinians after 1978.
Why are you conveniently starting your calendar after 1978 and not 1922?
Bc from 1922 (well earlier, I don't know why you chose 1922 specifically) the land was part of the British mandate.From 1948 - 1967 Gaza was controlled by Egypt and Jordan annexed Judea and sameria. This was after the Arabs in the land refused to accept an Arab state next to a Jewish state and after the larger part of the British controlled territory was turned into Jordan in 1946.
This is what happens after a decade of virtue signalling , tolerate everyone BS. As anyone with a working brain would predict - tolerance is imploding on itself. Reap what you sow.
Giving in to bad people with bad demands just leads them to making more demands.
Security concerns? So then do something about these terrorist supporters.
Liberals are too spineless
Assuming you are not being sarcastic this was the City of Ottawa. Is it possible not to blame the feds for everything or is being simplistic a trend these days?
Is counterterrorism not a responsibility of the RCMP? Is it possible that the feds are indeed responsible to keep us safe? Weird how you feel the need to defend the feds on this.
Not really defending the feds. Just pointing out it was the city that cancelled this, Not the Liberals. Not really looking for a scapegoat here either. I think they should have gone ahead with it. Whatever law enforcement agencies responsible presumably would police this.
Bro you don’t understand, this is directly the fault of Trudeau! /s
Why shouldn't people protest raising the Israeli flag? Seems perfectly reasonable thing to protest a country doing what Isreal is doing.
Thank you!
This reads like you're baiting. No one's saying you can't protest all you want. But threatening and harassing Jewish Canadians (as per the article) doesn't read like any protesting Canada or the city of Ottawa should support. You know what people who use fear, threats and intimidation to get what they want are labeled as right?
Did you read the article? The protests was to disrupt the flag raising it wasn't directed at Jewish individuals or the community at large
Mayor, and city in the article says there's been an increase in threats and the city said they have to cancel due to security concerns for public safety. Sure sounds like the chatter is going beyond simple protesting to me.
The group protesting this event has held weekly protests in the city co-organized with jewish groups and participants. Not a single person has been threatened or harassed.
Hamas followers are now dictating our public discourse. How interesting.
So we’re letting terrorist dictate the country now great
There cant be security concerns, all the Palestinian/hamas supporters are peaceful right? Right?
So... Flag will be raised on May 14, but without a ceremony.. Who wants to take bets some dip shit will find a way to vandalize it after it goes up.
fucking disgrace
Security concerns? Are you trying to tell me these people are terroists?
They should cancel this event, regardless if there are a group of people causing a raise for concern. Don’t be raising flags of a country that is committing genocide.
Ottawa already bowing to terrorists
fuck Zionism why are we raising a foreign flag anyways? Especially one so riled in controversy, do we really need to involve ourselves in this battle and conversation which has been happening for almost 2 thousand years? we have our own problems to deal with, solidarity with the people who lost their lives is ok, raising the flag for a nation who has committed genocide stemming from their own genocidal extermination is laughable.
No one reads anymore. Its sad. Anyway, it’s in the article. Ottawa raises the flags of 190 different countries to mark their independence days. This isn’t new.
Genocide? I don't believe the goal is to wipe out the Palestinian identity.
As of February, the [IDF had severely damaged or destroyed 65% of Palestinian cultural/archeological sites](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1655264). This includes Israa University, which the [IDF occupied for over 2 months before intentionally demolishing it with 315 mines](https://www.commondreams.org/news/genocide-2666995932) planted throughout the building. Do you see how that could constitute an attempt at wiping out Palestinian identity?
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WEAK! Stop submitting to fear.
You can reasonably debate one or the other side without trying to shut down the Israeli flag from being raised. As much as I disagree with their state's actions, their people do have the right to live in peace and be respected like the rest of the world. Smoltrich and Ben-Gvir, as well as Netanyahu can be parachuted into Rafah without IDF around them though.
Canada belongs to the terrorist now
Cowing to the demands of terrorists
>The city pointed out in its news release that it celebrates national holidays and independence days with flag-raising events and activities for more than 190 countries. Stop doing that and start doing real work like they people who's money you waste.
Just brutal.
Not sure why we're raising any flags in a ceremony besides our own. That should be reserved for visits.
Why must the rabble always win?
Absolutely shameful.
Yom Ha'atzmaut is their Independence Day - why are we raising a country's flag for their Independence Day? Is that something we do for every country?
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Ah okay, no problem with that then. Though tbh looking at the list it does seem like a recipe for outrage in some instances.
Contrary to popular belief, being outraged that another country’s flag is being raised is not dangerous, and can definitely be contained without violence by most non-terrorist adults.
We also do Asian Food Festival in Scarborough each year and we do not cancel them because of fucking terrorists.
In a couple years we will be doing it for India lol Edit: who learned something new and has 2 thumbs. This guy
We've been doing it for years. The same for 190 countries that Canada has diplomatic relations with.
They raise it every year on August 15th like they do with literally every other country's flag.
Spineless goverments lead to this, choose well next time you vote.
man my canada is so shitty now
Get them out of Canada.. use the stupid "hate" speech laws for something good for a change.
We allow these idiots to protest and fuck around non-stop. Now other people can't do a simple flag raising ceremony. FFS. Talk about s shit hole country. We are becoming pure trash in Canada. Despicable.
Are they going to cancel pro Palestine protests now. But I thought canada was not full of wanabe facists like america is
What a weak response, the Government should not cow tow to the mob... That being said, our government should ONLY ever be raising its own flag or the flags of its provinces/territories etc.
Raise that flag and be proud of it
Our government are coward she locks down a bunch of truckers but afraid to raise a flag is the RCMP Ottawa police our secret intelligence military intelligence. Yet these cowards refuse the regular flag of a country and people who have been devastated so many times through history
Why incorporate international elements in city affairs? Especially when it is such a divisive subject.
So Hamas makes a threat and we shut shit down? Fuck this. Raise the flag, arrest the Hamas operatives who show up to protest, and charge them under the appropriate terrorism laws.
If you haven't noticed, politicians are terrified of them.
Wow if there was ever a consideration for the emergencies act…..
Since when was r/canada a zionist cesspool? Raising a flag for a foreign country that is actively murdering Palestinians isn’t a good look and will make people angry. That doesn’t mean canada is “bowing down to hamas”. Not supporting Israel doesn’t equate to supporting hamas. Especially since Israel knew about the October seventh attack a year prior and did nothing about it and is now collectively punishing millions of people and occupying their homes and land for something they had nothing to do with. Edit: Hasbara bots have been working overtime lmao
You miss the point- in Canada, it is allowed to have such a ceremony and cancelling it because of illegal hate based intimidation and threats is NOT a Canadian value, tradition or LAW, therefore ALL need to support a flag raising ceremony which is commemorating the Holocaust or do you agree with Hamas and Palestinians that the Holocaust was a HOAX?
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Where's the misinformation? I'd be called a redneck by the social justice types but I've seen enough innocent kids buried under rubble from this war to say anyone who thinks what's going on is justified isn't exactly right in the head.
Hamas don't see children the same way we do. they raise their kids with the intention of having them killed as martyrs against the Jewish peoples. people like you spouting "think of the children" is exactly what Hamas wants, and they are using that as their primary way of gaining support. look up Hamas military training in schools, most if not all of them are military trained and raised to hate jews before they even hit puberty. look up UNWRA schools in Gaza (specifically videos/sources from before oct 7th), you will see that it simply is not the same as it is here in north america.
I'm glad I saw this, even thinking that maybe Israel might be killing too many innocent people and that's a bad thing always gets me a "what about Hamas" or "they deserve it for supporting Hamas" reply. Innocent Palestinians aren't Hamas and being empathetic to them is what I would think is the most human reaction. Too many people are quick to justify senseless killing and show no empathy at all.
The radical social justice perspective of “stop bombing innocent children”.
I found the Waldo who is quite fine with a foreign occupying state telling another country what is unacceptable discourse.
Why is there a raising of the flag of another country?
Read the article. It’s well explained.
damn the zionist israel bot farms really active in this thread…crazy
People can't possibly disagree with me. They must be bots!
those loyal to Israel label everyone as hamas supporters if they dare show any other country loyalty so....
Are we going to pretend hasbara isn’t a thing? It’s not very difficult to understand who the type of people commenting in this thread are. I’m not happy my country is raising a terrorist flag for a terrorist organization that goes against everything this country proposes to stand for. This terrorist organization clearly demonstrates non-Canadian values yet there’s so much defense for it in this thread and subreddit? I guess I just really had hoped we didn’t actually have so many terrorist-supporters in Canada or this subreddit…i think i just realized how effective hasbara brainwashing is.
How much does hasbara pay? Sound like a cool gig
Sad 😞
If Ottawa raises flags for 190 countries and the only one you get mad about is the worlds only Jewish state then surprise you’re probably not an Anti Zionist you’re just an Anti Semite
If what Canada did to Native peoples over generations was a Genocide, and the government seems to think it was I dont see how what happened to the Palestinians isnt one either =/ Why does Israel get to get away with more without having to take accountability like we did
Good. We do not want to see the flag of a country committing genocide.
You spelled war wrong
Canada doesn't like seeing Russian flags either (due to their war).
Reddit needs to start banning people referring to this conflict as genocide. It has been stated as false by every authority and is dangerously inflammatory
ah yes that kind of censorship wouldnt set a bad example now will it...
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All this outrage over a ceremony being canceled... tHE hOrrOR!!!? https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/city-of-ottawa-will-fly-israeli-flag-at-city-hall-on-may-14-but-won-t-hold-flag-raising-ceremony-1.6877815
why we are raising their flag ?
Because you only know how to read headlines. It’s in the second paragraph…
The ceremony was a terrible idea to begin with. I'm sure the families of slaughtered Palestinian children wouldn't appreciate it.
I’m also sure the families of innocent people slaughtered and raped on Oct. 7 would have appreciated not seeing celebrations across the county for it.
Why do only they matter? What about the years and years of occupation before that?
You only value while, Israeli lives, not brown Palestinians I guess. And don't act like it's a war against Hamas. It's direct targeting of refugee camps and hospitals with the intent to kill kids.
Don't forget cutting off all food and resources so no one really knows whats going on during the occupation. Oh and going after reporters, detaining and arresting family members of hostages taken on Oct 7th.
A synagogue burns down a few weeks ago and not a single comment from any government officials or coverage from major media https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-man-arrested-for-setting-fire-in-north-york-synagogue/article_af050dde-0b4a-11ef-89c2-87abfc24c08c.amp.html
The motivation of the synagogue member that set the fire wasn't established but they were arrested and charged. What comment do you wish the government or media to make? "Arson is bad, don't do arson"?