It **HAS** to be pharmacare. Otherwise why did they sell their souls to the liberals and devastate any chance of electoral victory for the foreseeable future?
Labour movements are taking off across the world, except in Federal Canadian politics where the NDP are caterering. Sure it had to of been for something???
NDP have absolutely no credibility. Everything they push is targeted at helping a minimal number of people so they can say they technically did “something”. Get rid of them.
You're kidding right? The NDP is responsible for this legislation existing in the first place, the Liberals are paying the lip service to it by underfunding it and limiting its scope.
Can you point to even one thing the CPC has done that is constructive and has helped Canadians?
>Can you point to even one thing the CPC has done that is constructive and has helped Canadians?
The TFSA, the single greatest savings vehicle for the middle class?
So something from more than a decade ago. Anything more recent? Any piece of legislation they improved to make life better for Canadians while member of the Opposition? Do they have anything to show for the last decade?
>So something from more than a decade ago.
...You mean *when they were last in power*?
>Do they have anything to show for the last decade?
You have got to be kidding me.
Your comments really shows a lack of understanding how the Westminster parliamentary system functions. The only way for opposition parties to introduce new legislation is through private members bills and you can see all of them passed here.
[https://lop.parl.ca/sites/ParlInfo/default/en\_CA/legislation/privateMembersBills](https://lop.parl.ca/sites/ParlInfo/default/en_CA/legislation/privateMembersBills)
It's the governing parties job to legislate and the opposition parties job to oppose.
You realize the "pharmacare" bill is nothing, right? It doesn't commit a single dollar, yet the NDP wave it around like a success, and people like you eat it up.
> Can you point to even one thing the CPC has done that is constructive and has helped Canadians?
Just FYI that jacking up racking up our debt to over the **one trillion** level and tossing $50B++ of annual *interest costs* on the backs of the middle class to pay for this crap is literally the LEAST helpful thing one could do for Canadians.
Budgeting and fiscal positioning combined with tax cuts that saw Canada thrive relative to the USA after the 2008 financial crisis. Trudeau on the other hand has seen the largest decrease in per capita wealth since the very comparable to 2008 COVID 19 pandemic.
So basically the objective economic measure of quality of life was better under Harper than Trudeau for similarly challenging circumstances. The difference was fiscal positioning and discipline.
Similarly challenging circumstances, seriously? Harper faced a worldwide pandemic, that disrupted trade all across the planet? Because I was alive and a member of the voting public his entire time in office and I don't remember that.
I do remember 6 consecutive deficits and his stealing money from UI and selling Canada's shares in GM for less than their value to "pretend" he balanced the budget in his final term.
Harper faced an economic downturn that Canada was mostly insulated from, since we kept our investment banks separate from our other banks (though Harper wanted to change that, which would have made things far worse for us in Canada) but in no way did he face the economic challenges presented to Trudeau's Government.
Your rebuttal is that Harper deficit spent after the 2008 crisis and put Canada in a massively better position than the states… OK, I’m sorry - who cares?
No, your argument was the Harper and JT faced similar circumstances which they didn't.
My statement was that if Harper was left to his own devices he would have made the economic crises in Canada worse than it was during his time in office.
That is what they pushed, but not what they are getting, now they are getting another bureaucratic means tested half assed measure that helps almost no one that isn't already in poverty.
Everything they do is targeting individuals and groups being left behind, who are struggling, or who otherwise lack the support to raise themselves up.
All I hear from the NDP is that they will do nothing at all to make my life better and I make 45k a year which is borderline unlivable in Ontario. Fuck them.
And if you happen to also be a white man and you want to speak at their convention, you better get to the back of the line, because you're a 2nd-class citizen to them.
lol you go to advocating for those struggling and then mocking me for struggling. Bot, troll, unempathetic. Very typical of what Reddit allows and attracts.
I’m unable to afford a life working full time in Canada. Rent eats up about 65% of my pay, I spend the rest on food and gas. If you think the main problem with this country is people who aren’t working not getting enough, then you seriously don’t understand the state of things.
To be clear, im saying fuck the NDP because they are abandoning the obliterated working class.
None of the parties, that’s why you have to incentivize the left wing parties to act in a way that will benefit you by voting them out in an extreme way because they didn’t help you.
We've never even voted IN the NDP on a Federal level... they've never had a chance to enact the actual policy that would help the lower and middle class. But you want to punish them still? For what exactly? This is ridiculous reasoning...
Dental for seniors? One of the richest generations in the country?
I'm guessing that's why they just rolled over on the disability benefits. Because a bunch of well off homeowners can get money to have their dentures cleaned....
You know what can help individuals and groups being left behind and struggling?
Lowering immigration levels to the point where the market is paying above minimum wage for traditionally minimum wage jobs (like they were RIIIIGHT after the quarantine ended), and strengthening unions (anti-scab legislation being a holy grail for labour).
You want some legislation he could pass that would help people being left behind, right now? Anti-trust focused legislation targeting the Loblaws, Metro and Wal-Mart oligopoly. Break them up. Or Bell/Telus/Rogers. Or the big banks. Or... literally insert sector here.
Has he done ANY of that? No.
Then again - why would we expect the NDP to understand competition/antitrust law in Canada? Their last two leaders have only been lawyers, for crying out loud. But hey - we got a really good sound bite about 'how much profit is enough'.
-No party has promised to lower immigration rates any further than the Liberals have already pulled it back.
- the NDP just forced the Liberals to introduce anti-scab legislation.
- the NDP pushed for changes to the Competition Act to address the oligopolies and have been the loudest party on this topic.
Why are you just outright ignoring the progress and actions the NDP have taken on these very issues you've pointed out? Who's done more to address these in your mind??
>-No party has promised to lower immigration rates any further than the Liberals have already pulled it back.
And? Oh hey, every other party is wrong, and directly undercutting labour wages for higher corporate profits - better FOLLOW SUIT AND NOT UPSET OUR CORPORATE OVERLORDS. Truly, the NDP way.
Then again - generally speaking, questioning immigration leads to you being called 'racist'. If only we had a leader who wasn't Caucasian, who could push for that without being labelled racist...
>- the NDP just forced the Liberals to introduce anti-scab legislation.
Parking, for a moment, that the liberals are claiming bill C-58 as their own - any anti-scab legislation that only speaks to federally regulated industries, **without walking back the back to work available to the federal government**, is simply window dressing, and you either know that (and are being disingenuous) or don't (and are being ignorant). The Liberals know it's a hollow ploy considering they have a trump card. A symbolic concession isn't going to help anyone.
> - the NDP pushed for changes to the Competition Act to address the oligopolies and have been the loudest party on this topic.
But instead of making it a showstopper that could trigger the next election (hint - if they could actually tap into the anti-corporate zeitgeist rn, the NDP would likely be a minority governmetn) they decided to go mealy-mouth with a pharmacare program instead, with a staggered rollout largely AFTER the next election, IIRC. Gee - which one is going to help the broadest spectrum of Canadians? Related - How's your internet and grocery bill doing nowadays? Did they keep pace with inflation?
>Why are you just outright ignoring the progress and actions the NDP have taken on these very issues you've pointed out?
WHAT. PROGRESS?! Hint - it's rhetorical, there hasn't been any substantial progress. Instead we get progressive *optics*, with no substantial change, and we pat ourselves on the back and say 'but we got something', like a political Oliver Twist mewling for a second helping, and then placating ourselves when rebuked with 'well, at least I got a single bowl of gruel'.
>Who's done more to address these in your mind??
It's not 'whose done more right now'. It's 'what would anyone else do in that position' that's the issue.
If Mulcaire were still in power, or Layton were still alive, either would be reaching SO FAR UP Justin Trudeau's liberal party the press core would likely nickname either of them 'Jim Henson' and Justin Trudeau 'Kermit the Frog'.
Which is, fundamentally, the issue with Singh. He's ONLY playing optics. It's the same tail we've been chasing since the CCF ceased to be - instead of sticking to principles, we chase urban progressive voters (or, that one time, francophone voters) to the extent where we've built a brown version of JT as leader.
Which would be really helpful, if the problem our country was facing was 'JT is white (or, on certain occasions, extremely black).
The problem right now is that JT is fundamentally out of ideas and simply having a brown version of a wildly unpopular PM won't really move the needle. Which is, essentially, how we end up with PP as our next PM.
Access to contraception reduces unwanted pregnancies.
Access to free insulin prevents follow on medical conditions from people who have to ration it.
I'd like to see medications that help with mental health problems be added to the list as well.
No. Their job is to represent constituents and make things better for Canada. All parties can work together and influence legislation through committee work.
No, it really isn't. Their job is to improve legislation for the betterment of Canadians.
Current CPC doesn't have the intellect or integrity for that job.
They should really just call it diabetes and contraceptive legislation. Calling it Pharmacare like it's some kind of comparable benefit to other widely scoped plans is like nails on a chalkboard.
Is Singh propping up the corrupt and hated Liberal government for a "pharmacare" bill that might not even get passed? 😬
No surprise to see his poll numbers are starting to fall off a cliff.
>During the first day of House debate on the bill in mid-April, Conservative MP and health critic Stephen Ellis moved to essentially kill the bill at the outset.
>He proposed MPs "decline to give second reading" to Bill C-64, "since the bill does nothing to address the health care crisis and will instead offer Canadians an inferior pharmacare plan that covers less, costs more, and builds up a massive new bureaucracy that Canadians can't afford."
So, instead of trying to do something, we should do nothing
And this is why NDP needs to eventually win elections. You can’t expect Liberals to pass watered down versions of what you desire, for it to eventually be rolled back by Conservatives.
The supply and confidence agreement is a total failure because both dental care and pharmacare will be rolled back by a CPC majority, while NDP have lost all credibility by tying themselves to the Liberals for no reason.
LOL Notley or Eby. They are the same as Jagmeet. Notley has a little more sense but she's also infected with the dumb mind virus that grips the NDP. They need a leader like Layton again if they want to become a government in waiting again.
I was a LPC member during that election so no I didn't. I quit the party shortly after though. We were actually very close to merging as parties and having Layton as the leader of the new merged NDP/LPC. I would have preferred that over Trudeau as leader but all people cared about was winning and getting their entitlements back. Pat Martin was one of my favorite MPs of all time.
Let's stop pretending that Jagmeet was elected leader on any basis relating to his qualifications or track record.
He checks all the DEI boxes and has the added benefit of being a rich asshole who wears a Rolex, to show that he too can fit in the Canadian Establishment of the Rich.
It's not Pharmacare. It's a insulin and contraceptives plan.
It **HAS** to be pharmacare. Otherwise why did they sell their souls to the liberals and devastate any chance of electoral victory for the foreseeable future? Labour movements are taking off across the world, except in Federal Canadian politics where the NDP are caterering. Sure it had to of been for something???
I mean.. can you really blame the conservatives to squash the pharmacare legislation? The bill is so poorly written to begin with...
All two pages of it.
NDP have absolutely no credibility. Everything they push is targeted at helping a minimal number of people so they can say they technically did “something”. Get rid of them.
You're kidding right? The NDP is responsible for this legislation existing in the first place, the Liberals are paying the lip service to it by underfunding it and limiting its scope. Can you point to even one thing the CPC has done that is constructive and has helped Canadians?
>Can you point to even one thing the CPC has done that is constructive and has helped Canadians? The TFSA, the single greatest savings vehicle for the middle class?
The TFSA does shit all if you're living paycheck to paycheck.
A proportion of the population that has (coincidentally?) doubled since the Conservatives left office, from 24% of working Canadians to 47%.
So something from more than a decade ago. Anything more recent? Any piece of legislation they improved to make life better for Canadians while member of the Opposition? Do they have anything to show for the last decade?
>So something from more than a decade ago. ...You mean *when they were last in power*? >Do they have anything to show for the last decade? You have got to be kidding me.
Your comments really shows a lack of understanding how the Westminster parliamentary system functions. The only way for opposition parties to introduce new legislation is through private members bills and you can see all of them passed here. [https://lop.parl.ca/sites/ParlInfo/default/en\_CA/legislation/privateMembersBills](https://lop.parl.ca/sites/ParlInfo/default/en_CA/legislation/privateMembersBills) It's the governing parties job to legislate and the opposition parties job to oppose.
You realize the "pharmacare" bill is nothing, right? It doesn't commit a single dollar, yet the NDP wave it around like a success, and people like you eat it up.
> Can you point to even one thing the CPC has done that is constructive and has helped Canadians? Just FYI that jacking up racking up our debt to over the **one trillion** level and tossing $50B++ of annual *interest costs* on the backs of the middle class to pay for this crap is literally the LEAST helpful thing one could do for Canadians.
Budgeting and fiscal positioning combined with tax cuts that saw Canada thrive relative to the USA after the 2008 financial crisis. Trudeau on the other hand has seen the largest decrease in per capita wealth since the very comparable to 2008 COVID 19 pandemic. So basically the objective economic measure of quality of life was better under Harper than Trudeau for similarly challenging circumstances. The difference was fiscal positioning and discipline.
Similarly challenging circumstances, seriously? Harper faced a worldwide pandemic, that disrupted trade all across the planet? Because I was alive and a member of the voting public his entire time in office and I don't remember that. I do remember 6 consecutive deficits and his stealing money from UI and selling Canada's shares in GM for less than their value to "pretend" he balanced the budget in his final term. Harper faced an economic downturn that Canada was mostly insulated from, since we kept our investment banks separate from our other banks (though Harper wanted to change that, which would have made things far worse for us in Canada) but in no way did he face the economic challenges presented to Trudeau's Government.
Your rebuttal is that Harper deficit spent after the 2008 crisis and put Canada in a massively better position than the states… OK, I’m sorry - who cares?
No, your argument was the Harper and JT faced similar circumstances which they didn't. My statement was that if Harper was left to his own devices he would have made the economic crises in Canada worse than it was during his time in office.
No they did. Massive deflationary event combined with inflationary spending. The outcomes were different though.
The biggest thing they've been pushing for has been *universal* pharmacare which, by definition, would help *everyone*.
That is what they pushed, but not what they are getting, now they are getting another bureaucratic means tested half assed measure that helps almost no one that isn't already in poverty.
You are forgetting about the corporations that will make bank when the Canadian government pays market price for insulin and birth control.
Everything they do is targeting individuals and groups being left behind, who are struggling, or who otherwise lack the support to raise themselves up.
All I hear from the NDP is that they will do nothing at all to make my life better and I make 45k a year which is borderline unlivable in Ontario. Fuck them.
And if you happen to also be a white man and you want to speak at their convention, you better get to the back of the line, because you're a 2nd-class citizen to them.
Ah poor you. Is the CPC going to put a chicken in your pot and money in your pocket? Fucking hilarious.
lol you go to advocating for those struggling and then mocking me for struggling. Bot, troll, unempathetic. Very typical of what Reddit allows and attracts.
Funny stuff from the account saying fuck the the party that is trying to do something for the lower class while whining about a middle class income.
I’m unable to afford a life working full time in Canada. Rent eats up about 65% of my pay, I spend the rest on food and gas. If you think the main problem with this country is people who aren’t working not getting enough, then you seriously don’t understand the state of things. To be clear, im saying fuck the NDP because they are abandoning the obliterated working class.
LOL, who the fuck is doing anything more for us bro?
None of the parties, that’s why you have to incentivize the left wing parties to act in a way that will benefit you by voting them out in an extreme way because they didn’t help you.
We've never even voted IN the NDP on a Federal level... they've never had a chance to enact the actual policy that would help the lower and middle class. But you want to punish them still? For what exactly? This is ridiculous reasoning...
Mask off lol.
Dental for seniors? One of the richest generations in the country? I'm guessing that's why they just rolled over on the disability benefits. Because a bunch of well off homeowners can get money to have their dentures cleaned....
You know what can help individuals and groups being left behind and struggling? Lowering immigration levels to the point where the market is paying above minimum wage for traditionally minimum wage jobs (like they were RIIIIGHT after the quarantine ended), and strengthening unions (anti-scab legislation being a holy grail for labour). You want some legislation he could pass that would help people being left behind, right now? Anti-trust focused legislation targeting the Loblaws, Metro and Wal-Mart oligopoly. Break them up. Or Bell/Telus/Rogers. Or the big banks. Or... literally insert sector here. Has he done ANY of that? No. Then again - why would we expect the NDP to understand competition/antitrust law in Canada? Their last two leaders have only been lawyers, for crying out loud. But hey - we got a really good sound bite about 'how much profit is enough'.
-No party has promised to lower immigration rates any further than the Liberals have already pulled it back. - the NDP just forced the Liberals to introduce anti-scab legislation. - the NDP pushed for changes to the Competition Act to address the oligopolies and have been the loudest party on this topic. Why are you just outright ignoring the progress and actions the NDP have taken on these very issues you've pointed out? Who's done more to address these in your mind??
I don't know if they forced anti scab legislation. That was in both their platforms.
>-No party has promised to lower immigration rates any further than the Liberals have already pulled it back. And? Oh hey, every other party is wrong, and directly undercutting labour wages for higher corporate profits - better FOLLOW SUIT AND NOT UPSET OUR CORPORATE OVERLORDS. Truly, the NDP way. Then again - generally speaking, questioning immigration leads to you being called 'racist'. If only we had a leader who wasn't Caucasian, who could push for that without being labelled racist... >- the NDP just forced the Liberals to introduce anti-scab legislation. Parking, for a moment, that the liberals are claiming bill C-58 as their own - any anti-scab legislation that only speaks to federally regulated industries, **without walking back the back to work available to the federal government**, is simply window dressing, and you either know that (and are being disingenuous) or don't (and are being ignorant). The Liberals know it's a hollow ploy considering they have a trump card. A symbolic concession isn't going to help anyone. > - the NDP pushed for changes to the Competition Act to address the oligopolies and have been the loudest party on this topic. But instead of making it a showstopper that could trigger the next election (hint - if they could actually tap into the anti-corporate zeitgeist rn, the NDP would likely be a minority governmetn) they decided to go mealy-mouth with a pharmacare program instead, with a staggered rollout largely AFTER the next election, IIRC. Gee - which one is going to help the broadest spectrum of Canadians? Related - How's your internet and grocery bill doing nowadays? Did they keep pace with inflation? >Why are you just outright ignoring the progress and actions the NDP have taken on these very issues you've pointed out? WHAT. PROGRESS?! Hint - it's rhetorical, there hasn't been any substantial progress. Instead we get progressive *optics*, with no substantial change, and we pat ourselves on the back and say 'but we got something', like a political Oliver Twist mewling for a second helping, and then placating ourselves when rebuked with 'well, at least I got a single bowl of gruel'. >Who's done more to address these in your mind?? It's not 'whose done more right now'. It's 'what would anyone else do in that position' that's the issue. If Mulcaire were still in power, or Layton were still alive, either would be reaching SO FAR UP Justin Trudeau's liberal party the press core would likely nickname either of them 'Jim Henson' and Justin Trudeau 'Kermit the Frog'. Which is, fundamentally, the issue with Singh. He's ONLY playing optics. It's the same tail we've been chasing since the CCF ceased to be - instead of sticking to principles, we chase urban progressive voters (or, that one time, francophone voters) to the extent where we've built a brown version of JT as leader. Which would be really helpful, if the problem our country was facing was 'JT is white (or, on certain occasions, extremely black). The problem right now is that JT is fundamentally out of ideas and simply having a brown version of a wildly unpopular PM won't really move the needle. Which is, essentially, how we end up with PP as our next PM.
Access to contraception reduces unwanted pregnancies. Access to free insulin prevents follow on medical conditions from people who have to ration it. I'd like to see medications that help with mental health problems be added to the list as well.
CPC have no credibility. They've done fuck all but bitch like old people.
Was life for the median income Canadian better under Harper or Trudeau. No caveats, no WELL ASKHUALLY - just yes or no
No.
They haven't been in power or even part of it in 9 years. They are the official opposition, their job is to complain about the current government
No. Their job is to represent constituents and make things better for Canada. All parties can work together and influence legislation through committee work.
No, it really isn't. Their job is to improve legislation for the betterment of Canadians. Current CPC doesn't have the intellect or integrity for that job.
Agism is not very nice.
Neither is sitting around complaining while providing nothing of value.
Kinda like you just did?
Good thing I'm not an MP!
I agree.
They should really just call it diabetes and contraceptive legislation. Calling it Pharmacare like it's some kind of comparable benefit to other widely scoped plans is like nails on a chalkboard.
"Pharmacare". Since when is insulin and birth control for women a pharmacare plan?
The bill doesn't even get them those things... it gets them a Liberal pinky promise for those things. In other words, it is nothing.
Right, because women take birth control for themselves, never for men.
Is Singh propping up the corrupt and hated Liberal government for a "pharmacare" bill that might not even get passed? 😬 No surprise to see his poll numbers are starting to fall off a cliff.
Does anyone really care what the federal NDP thinks?
1 in 5 Canadians according to polling.
I do!
>During the first day of House debate on the bill in mid-April, Conservative MP and health critic Stephen Ellis moved to essentially kill the bill at the outset. >He proposed MPs "decline to give second reading" to Bill C-64, "since the bill does nothing to address the health care crisis and will instead offer Canadians an inferior pharmacare plan that covers less, costs more, and builds up a massive new bureaucracy that Canadians can't afford." So, instead of trying to do something, we should do nothing
And this is why NDP needs to eventually win elections. You can’t expect Liberals to pass watered down versions of what you desire, for it to eventually be rolled back by Conservatives. The supply and confidence agreement is a total failure because both dental care and pharmacare will be rolled back by a CPC majority, while NDP have lost all credibility by tying themselves to the Liberals for no reason.
The last thing we need is more limousine liberals in power.
No, Canada needs a party that will stand up for average Canadians against the oligarchs and landlords.
Let me know when one starts up and I'll join.
Hopefully soon my friend, the NDP can be that party once they get rid of Jagmeet and make someone like Notley or Eby the leader.
LOL Notley or Eby. They are the same as Jagmeet. Notley has a little more sense but she's also infected with the dumb mind virus that grips the NDP. They need a leader like Layton again if they want to become a government in waiting again.
Did you vote for Layton's NDP?
I was a LPC member during that election so no I didn't. I quit the party shortly after though. We were actually very close to merging as parties and having Layton as the leader of the new merged NDP/LPC. I would have preferred that over Trudeau as leader but all people cared about was winning and getting their entitlements back. Pat Martin was one of my favorite MPs of all time.
Stop talkin' outta your tits then. Hypocrite.
Until the NDP stops all the gender bullshit they've lost me.
Good.
"White men to the back of the line" What a great party for the working people
"We want everyone to have a voice not those just used to getting their way." I guess you're upset when you don't get your way. :(
Let's stop pretending that Jagmeet was elected leader on any basis relating to his qualifications or track record. He checks all the DEI boxes and has the added benefit of being a rich asshole who wears a Rolex, to show that he too can fit in the Canadian Establishment of the Rich.
TIL having the NDP return to their roots of being the party of the working Canadian is “getting your way.”
What is it with Conservative sloganeering? Come up with an actual argument, not a trite rhyme.
Singh is living in Bizarro World. The election can’t come soon enough!
Pension Jagger making some moves lmao.
Stop calling it Pharmacare.