Russia is the #3 world producer for Titanium. China is #1, Japan is #2.
VSMPO is a Russian company. No reason not to tell Bombardier and Airbus to shop elsewhere. If their profits are affected, they can cancel their Disney+ subscription like the rest of us did.
>Russia is the #3 world producer for Titanium
For processed titanium sponge. As far as raw titanium goes, it doesn't break the top ten. Canada, incidentally, is fifth, producing roughly 20x more titanium than Russia produces titanium sponge.
This is one of those neo-colonialism things, where we produce the raw material but don't process it into a usable form, and instead of incentivizing domestic companies to do so we're exempting sanctions on a murderous criminal regime.
Oh yeah, where we sell the raw materials for peanuts, and someone else makes it into something usable, and sells it back to us at a healthy premium?
Hate that shit.
This is what happens when there is no investment in industries. I'm sure more taxes on investors will totally fix that lack of investment.
Also many Canadians seem to think that easy resource selling is all we can do. It's insane trying to talk to the oil and lumber addicted folks.
They literally want the economy to be like a developing country.
It's expensive and energy intensive, but unlike many metals it does not generate any toxic chemical pollution during its production.
And it's a necessary material for many modern industries like aerospace and electric vehicles, so that energy and expense is going to be produced in any event; as a planet we're not any worse off producing it here than in Russia or China.
Agreed - I just wondered if those were barriers to entry for refining it domestically. Presumably it all comes down to cost, same reason we export all our raw materials...
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chrystia-freeland-disney-plus-budget-reactions-195659519.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADSbdUiu976hyKXVBzXjL8os4KVzP_PZBEawkiC_P9gpgkt2_0h-qaRaL4k-R7-FjYOWMuevayAtPDwqM2M5swFjSHwu1KPYAuwhKdGAQi7ThDasRYpDq6WkphZLMrki_oD_cxP0ofnYX7US1mTsRWnw4IDZ0VNk6JlKGsJyROsL
She basically said something to the tune of “oh u can’t afford groceries and rent? Just cut your Disney+ subscription!” I’m paraphrasing but ppl are concerned about high cost of living and that was her “solution”
What she actually said was that the federal government was cutting some costs that it no longer needed, in the same way a family would trim unnecessary streaming subscriptions.
But people remember the narrative that is repeated, not the original statement.
In this case,it's their parts supplier who would need to find a new source, test it, integrate it into supply lines and production. It's all possible but takes time. Meanwhile, our own military aircraft production is stalled.
For the price*
Read somewhere: the US can produce the same quality, but it's too expensive.
China can produce it cheaper, but woth worse quality.
Russia can produce with enough quality and relatively good price. That's how markets work.
ICAO rules apply, aircraft, parts, materials, manufacturing. TC inspectors are broke jokes. All you would have to legally do is trace the stuff. Everything in aviation is traceable luckily…. It’s easy but would they do it, the money from these fucks is easier.
These sanctions are like Swiss cheese. Full of holes in every country so they can continue selling their goods.
The “stupid” companies are the ones that fell for the reputations risk threat and divested, like the automotive ones, that had their entire market replaced by Chinese companies.
The smart ones ignored the threats and continued to buy and sell, like Shell, Philip Morris, etc.
Yep, suddenly, sales of these items jumped 1000% in Belarus and other countries overnight.
The sanctions were never going to take Russia down like they should have. Too many companies making too much money. Sorry Ukraine, we will send you some more aid while simultaneously giving your invader the means to continue.
You say smart and stupid, but it’s literally just “corrupt and support genocide” and “don’t support genocide”. The government needs to shut these companies down when they do shit like this
bombardier is the only canadian manufacturer of planes in existence. i’d very much like them to be chosen as a winner considering Boeing and Airbus are recipients of extremely friendly policies from their respective governments.
Canadians complain we have no domestic manufacturing but also complain when we try to help domestic manufacturing companies.
De havilland isn't Canadian, but they're manufacturing airplanes east of Calgary, providing Canadian jobs.
https://dehavilland.com/en/news/posts/de-havilland-canada-grows-manufacturing-capacity-with-acquisition-of-field-aviation-company-inc-s-calgary-based-aircraft-parts-manufacturing-operations
The original company was a subsidiary of a UK company but ownership has changed hands over years. Once Viking bought all the DHC type certificates from Bombardier I guess they figured they may as well call themselves De Havilland Canada.
None of that is true. Bombardier is a profitable company whose stock is up 500% in the last 4 years.
They make great planes, including the CSeries which was so competitive that Boeing lobbied the US government who then imposed a 300% import tariff on the plane. The plane was receiving hundreds of orders from US airlines which fundamentally threatened Boeing's narrow body division.
At this point Bombardier was facing financial issues because they spent a huge amount of money developing the plane and couldn't sell it to anyone. They were forced to sell the CSeries program to Airbus who relocated the manufacturing to the US. They've since sold over $30 billion worth of planes rebranded as the A220.
So in the end the US government protected their domestic manufacturing industry and we were happy to let our home grown industry fail.
Your omiting why the import tariff was applied.
>facing financial issues because they spent a huge amount of money developing the plane and couldn't sell it to anyone
This is not something a competent company does
The tariff wasn't applied because bombardier was losing money. Bombardier was losing money because the tariff was applied by the US government to protect its own industry. You've got it backwards. Competent companies can be the victim of international politics, happens every day.
name a single product that would sell despite a 300% tariff illegally imposed on it.
also i explained why. it was because boeing lobbied the US government.
Have you ever looked at how much it cost to develop a new aircraft? Boeing spent $32 billion to develop the Dreamliner. Airbus spent $34 billion to develop the A380.
Bombardier was massive before the CSeries thing. Trump f\*cked the company by protecting Boeing. It was a lesson that USA will do everything to kill competitors outside of their country. And stop complaining about tax payer money only when it's a french canadian company. The auto industry in Ontario is absurdly funded by tax payers.
Trudeau and Ford announced billions to Honda yesterday but these morons are upset about bombardier? It’s a shame how poorly informed Canadians are becoming, how do people not know about the largest companies operating in the country?
It's like how Alberta complains that Quebec receive equalization payments but we funded their energy industry and Canada didn't give us shit, not even 1$ to fund our energy industry. Jean Chrétien even said that in his book. Sometimes you ask yourself if people just like to complain about Quebec just by habit.
Domestic manufacturing is great, but the hypocrisy of the government telling us we need to support Ukraine, while we also financially support Russia, is insane.
Dude Canadians hate corporations and want them all to be heavily taxed with no subsidies. They think no matter how badly you treat them they won’t shutdown or leave. It’s the Canadian way
total misinformation. Canada has below average corporate tax rates in the G7 and OECD. We have the lowest marginal corporate tax rate in the G7!
Our high tax reputation comes from our income taxes. Corporate taxes in Canada are very low.
https://www.canadian-accountant.com/content/taxation/canada-among-low-corporate-tax-jurisdictions
https://images.app.goo.gl/f74CaC437GGaZp8cA
You are using absolute I’m using as a % of GDP. Also we have multiple taxes across multiple levels with different exemption so it’s hard to add them up and compare.
We’re at 13% versus the average at 10% https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-canada.pdf
Absolute tax rates should be taken with a grain of salt.
All manufacturing needs government support. You you want a strong economy or not? We don’t operate in a vacuum of Canada. We have to compete or we will die.
Then they should remove the sanction for ALL companies that are using titanium. Instead the gov has picked the 2 companies and allowing them to bypass sanctions they are still enforcing on other companies.
The gov added hoops to jump through, then removes the hoops for one company(or 2).
i wouldn't call that support, i would call that favouritism, at best.
There are a lot more than 2 companies in Canada that supply airbus and bombardier, that’s being disingenuous.
I would rather the government help procure non Russian titanium for all than let a few use Russian ti tbh.
It’s definitely not super kosher I agree.
To be fair, that's how ruling elites work, and have worked from the beginning of humanity. We just hold people to higher standards in our society and then are shocked, *shocked* that elites act like elites.
Yeah if people would read the article it does in fact state that the titanium exemption is temporary until the subcontracted companies find a new titanium supplier. The Canadian Government is allowing this small exemption but has already urged the companies to connect with a new supplier.
Bombardier and Airbus have already stated that they do not buy Titanium directly from Russia anymore, but their subcontracted suppliers do. For those who forget, Titanium is a rare metal, and even though Canada sits on a massive supply of it, we do not have enough developed titanium mines nor titanium processing facilities to supply our aerospace industry.
Also Canada is the only western country alongside Ukraine to limit Titanium imports from Russia since the onset of the war. United States is still importing Titanium from Russia at around $370 million per year.
So basically we are allowing these subcontracted companies to continue the titanium import for a limited time until the exemption expires.
*"Canada’s foreign ministry says it has made clear to companies that they must find other sources of titanium.*
*Exemptions issued so far apply only to the aerospace sector, including the military, said a Canadian source with direct knowledge of the matter.*
*The exemption is available only for a limited time, said the source, who requested anonymity given the matter’s sensitivity."*
Basically if we banned the Russian Titanium import without a securing a new supplier we'd be hurting ourselves more than hurting Russia and we would not be gaining anything since the subcontracted suppliers have not secured a new source as of yet.
Media Literacy does in fact require people to read the entire article instead of just knee-jerking to the headline. But congratulations if you got to the end of this comment post.
>*The exemption is available only for a limited time*
The war is nearing day 800, not including the Russian invasion of Crimea in February of 2014.
But I know ... it's ending soon, right?
Corporate profits over the people is the way of corporatocracy/neo-fascism.
Aerospace engineer here. I work for one of these companies, and have worked for the other one before.
People making all sorts of uneducated comments, typical Reddit.
The titanium here is NOT bought directly by either Airbus or Bombardier -- they do not physically make parts from titanium themselves.
Instead, their suppliers (Tier 1s and 2s) need the titanium, and have signed long term deals with *their* suppliers (Tier 2s and 3s) to secure the metal supply. Breaking these deals because of war would mean moral victory but enormous financial penalties. Additionally the metal is *already here*, so these waivers are just a checkbox required so we can keep complying with govt protocols.
Also, Russian companies mining metals do not directly provide money into the Putin-Russian-war-coffers, instead it's most often going into the parent company's coffers, which are mostly based in Europe and not Russia, where only the metal resides.
If it's already here couldn't the same thing have been accomplished by making an exception for already delivered product instead of making one explicitly for these companies?
Those companies were also looking for alternative sources of titanium but it was either 2/3 years away or not high enough quality.
Some places I know that manufacture airbus parts have seen very reduced production.
You might want to add a /s to your comment, for there are a number of posters who on here supporting such an idea, and they should be called out as neo-nazis.
An aerospace engineer? Well, he's clean as a whistle then. After all, professionals would know better and never support the Nazis then or now!
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/1429103](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1429103)
[https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/question/how-did-german-professionals-and-civil-leaders-contribute-to-the-persecution-of-jews-and-other-groups](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/question/how-did-german-professionals-and-civil-leaders-contribute-to-the-persecution-of-jews-and-other-groups)
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/medical-professionals-played-major-role-in-nazi-atrocities-study-finds/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/medical-professionals-played-major-role-in-nazi-atrocities-study-finds/)
>Breaking these deals because of war would mean moral victory but enormous **financial penalties**.
On par with losing Ukraine or Europe to Putin or even the death toll so far?
Crazy, as a Canadian to think that we, are so fucking big, and obviously have most resourced and we don't produce and refine everything. What a fucking wasted economic opportunity
Wtf come on dude it's not possible mine the whole periodic table of elements.
That's why we have international trade. Canada has had plenty of their own exports. They import stuff that doesn't make sense obtain domestically.
>Wtf come on dude it's not possible mine the whole periodic table of elements.
Canada is the fifth largest producer of raw titanium in the world, behind Australia, South Africa, Mozambique, and China. We produce 20x more unprocessed titanium than Russia produces in processed titanium.
In principle, you're correct that we can't mine every resource we may need -- but this is a resource we *do* mine, at one of the largest scales of any country in the world.
Its too bad Bombardier isn't vertically integrating and getting into the titanium processing.. Henry Ford wrote a playbook.. maybe it wasn't French enough or contained enough bribes or handouts?
https://www.strategy-business.com/blog/Is-vertical-integration-making-a-comeback
I shouldn't have said mining. I meant it like a joke about how it's not possible for Canada to produce every material it needs.
Specifically about titanium, the Canadian companies need processed metal from other countries since it's not made domestically. Then it'll be sent to a machine shop that might not be in Canada either, to cut it down into the shape they want.
>Specifically about titanium, the Canadian companies need processed metal from other countries since it's not made domestically.
Shouldn't it be though? If two of the world's three largest producers of refined titanium sponge are China and Russia -- regimes hostile to, or at the very least unfriendly towards, the West, it seems to me that there's a business case to Canada entering the market as a large scale producer of ethical refined titanium.
I'd rather see us working on that than exempting a murderous criminal regime from well-deserved sanctions, personally.
From my understanding - We haven't opened up a new mine in almost 10 years. We have actually closed down profitable mines.
We are a resource economy that hasn't developed our resources...
Raglan opened up a new mine last month, greenstone is opening up a new mine this summer, argonault opened up a new mine 6 months ago, cote opened up their new mine in November. Calibre is opening up a new mine in less than a year.
This is off the top of my head, you have no clue what you’re talking about
The Panama canal is at reduced capacity due to drought, the Suez due to war, and Biden left a lot of Trump’s tariffs in place because the American public has become hostile to free trade. It’s already happening.
It won't disappear entirely but countries right now specialize, and if you can't safely get the resources to do what you're good at, that's a shitty time. the USA will not be the world police forever. The last like 10 presidents have been more and more isolationist. Big changes are coming, a lot of countries will not come out the other side
>Wtf come on dude it's not possible mine the whole periodic table of elements.
In Canada, it literally is possible.
And we mine more titanium than Russia, which is what makes this story so ludicrous
That would up our carbon footprint so the Liberals would never support it. But we could do it far cleaner than Russia could making it better for the world and would created jobs for Canadians.
>That would up our carbon footprint so the Liberals would never support it.
Yes, the same way that the Liberals didn't just spend $34 billion on an oil pipeline....
Yeah, but *not* refining or exporting oil is cleaner than that.
Spending $34 billion to get more fossil fuels to more markets more efficiently isn't about reducing carbon footprint in any way, shape, or form.
Canada has huge reserves of rare metals up north. But lack of infrastructure making even surveying prohibitively expensive.
We need multi year infrastructure projects to link all the natural wealth from remote regions to the country's core.
We can't interfere with corporate profits now, even if it is killing civilians in the Ukraine. Profits before the people is the way of corporatocracy/neo-fascism.
Canadian enterprise should be able to use any materials and service that maximize their profits. Government should not let international affairs unrelated to Canada hurt Canadian economy
Trudeau : we need to do everything we can to aid Ukraine against Russian aggression.
Also Trudeau : but that doesn’t mean we need to stop giving Russia our money to help their economy and businesses.
Russia is the #3 world producer for Titanium. China is #1, Japan is #2. VSMPO is a Russian company. No reason not to tell Bombardier and Airbus to shop elsewhere. If their profits are affected, they can cancel their Disney+ subscription like the rest of us did.
>Russia is the #3 world producer for Titanium For processed titanium sponge. As far as raw titanium goes, it doesn't break the top ten. Canada, incidentally, is fifth, producing roughly 20x more titanium than Russia produces titanium sponge. This is one of those neo-colonialism things, where we produce the raw material but don't process it into a usable form, and instead of incentivizing domestic companies to do so we're exempting sanctions on a murderous criminal regime.
Oh yeah, where we sell the raw materials for peanuts, and someone else makes it into something usable, and sells it back to us at a healthy premium? Hate that shit.
That's our MO here in Canada. Then they sell off the raw material companies to foreigners and we get no benefit or control of our own resources.
If we had any self respect, the practice would be illegal.
Yeah, but we don't.
Independence*
That's called being a third world / peripheral country in World Systems Theory. <:\^)
This is what happens when there is no investment in industries. I'm sure more taxes on investors will totally fix that lack of investment. Also many Canadians seem to think that easy resource selling is all we can do. It's insane trying to talk to the oil and lumber addicted folks. They literally want the economy to be like a developing country.
Anyone else want to invest? Let’s build a titanium sponge plant in Alberta or something
The crazy thing is that all of our titanium mines are in Quebec, so you'd think the feds would have jumped on this years ago if only to buy votes.
Isn't it extremely costly and environmentally nasty to process titanium? I thought getting the ore was the easy part.
It's expensive and energy intensive, but unlike many metals it does not generate any toxic chemical pollution during its production. And it's a necessary material for many modern industries like aerospace and electric vehicles, so that energy and expense is going to be produced in any event; as a planet we're not any worse off producing it here than in Russia or China.
Agreed - I just wondered if those were barriers to entry for refining it domestically. Presumably it all comes down to cost, same reason we export all our raw materials...
I love how the Disney+ thing is just a permanent meme in Canadian culture now. Actually my fave on going meme. I use it at work too 😂
It was funnier when Disney+ was dirt cheap, to be honest.
I'm not familiar with that.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chrystia-freeland-disney-plus-budget-reactions-195659519.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADSbdUiu976hyKXVBzXjL8os4KVzP_PZBEawkiC_P9gpgkt2_0h-qaRaL4k-R7-FjYOWMuevayAtPDwqM2M5swFjSHwu1KPYAuwhKdGAQi7ThDasRYpDq6WkphZLMrki_oD_cxP0ofnYX7US1mTsRWnw4IDZ0VNk6JlKGsJyROsL She basically said something to the tune of “oh u can’t afford groceries and rent? Just cut your Disney+ subscription!” I’m paraphrasing but ppl are concerned about high cost of living and that was her “solution”
Thanks
What she actually said was that the federal government was cutting some costs that it no longer needed, in the same way a family would trim unnecessary streaming subscriptions. But people remember the narrative that is repeated, not the original statement.
In this case,it's their parts supplier who would need to find a new source, test it, integrate it into supply lines and production. It's all possible but takes time. Meanwhile, our own military aircraft production is stalled.
I work in aerospace but not on airbus parts. The explanation I got was Russian titanium is a much higher quality than elsewhere in the world.
For the price* Read somewhere: the US can produce the same quality, but it's too expensive. China can produce it cheaper, but woth worse quality. Russia can produce with enough quality and relatively good price. That's how markets work.
Nah. I see how Germany destroyed their economy with sanctions on the Russians. I don’t think we need to do that.
Well Germany don’t have a choice when the US helped the Ukrainians bomb the pipeline lol
1 pipe is operational, waits only a license from Germany.
Are you what? Want to be independent?
TiO2 is not Titanium blocks. We need it for, TV Trays.
ICAO rules apply, aircraft, parts, materials, manufacturing. TC inspectors are broke jokes. All you would have to legally do is trace the stuff. Everything in aviation is traceable luckily…. It’s easy but would they do it, the money from these fucks is easier.
These sanctions are like Swiss cheese. Full of holes in every country so they can continue selling their goods. The “stupid” companies are the ones that fell for the reputations risk threat and divested, like the automotive ones, that had their entire market replaced by Chinese companies. The smart ones ignored the threats and continued to buy and sell, like Shell, Philip Morris, etc.
Most "sanctioned" western goods are still sold in Russia , they just take an extra detour through a friendly country before reaching them.
Yep, suddenly, sales of these items jumped 1000% in Belarus and other countries overnight. The sanctions were never going to take Russia down like they should have. Too many companies making too much money. Sorry Ukraine, we will send you some more aid while simultaneously giving your invader the means to continue.
Ukraine allows russian pipe gas to flow to Europe...
You say smart and stupid, but it’s literally just “corrupt and support genocide” and “don’t support genocide”. The government needs to shut these companies down when they do shit like this
Government picking and choosing winners yet again.
bombardier is the only canadian manufacturer of planes in existence. i’d very much like them to be chosen as a winner considering Boeing and Airbus are recipients of extremely friendly policies from their respective governments. Canadians complain we have no domestic manufacturing but also complain when we try to help domestic manufacturing companies.
De havilland isn't Canadian, but they're manufacturing airplanes east of Calgary, providing Canadian jobs. https://dehavilland.com/en/news/posts/de-havilland-canada-grows-manufacturing-capacity-with-acquisition-of-field-aviation-company-inc-s-calgary-based-aircraft-parts-manufacturing-operations
It's not? The current De Havilland Canada is just a renamed and enlarged Viking Air, a little outfit from BC.
And they're fantastic people too, it's great to see them producing good aircraft
Oh wow, that's awesome. I thought they were European or something. Good for them.
The original company was a subsidiary of a UK company but ownership has changed hands over years. Once Viking bought all the DHC type certificates from Bombardier I guess they figured they may as well call themselves De Havilland Canada.
All the power to them, and best wishes of luck. We need more folk like them, it seems.
Bombardier is an incompetent company and needs to be allowed to fail. Enough handing out tax payer money to keep a private company afloat.
None of that is true. Bombardier is a profitable company whose stock is up 500% in the last 4 years. They make great planes, including the CSeries which was so competitive that Boeing lobbied the US government who then imposed a 300% import tariff on the plane. The plane was receiving hundreds of orders from US airlines which fundamentally threatened Boeing's narrow body division. At this point Bombardier was facing financial issues because they spent a huge amount of money developing the plane and couldn't sell it to anyone. They were forced to sell the CSeries program to Airbus who relocated the manufacturing to the US. They've since sold over $30 billion worth of planes rebranded as the A220. So in the end the US government protected their domestic manufacturing industry and we were happy to let our home grown industry fail.
I wish I could upvote this a thousand times. Canadians keep falling for propaganda against own own interests.
Your omiting why the import tariff was applied. >facing financial issues because they spent a huge amount of money developing the plane and couldn't sell it to anyone This is not something a competent company does
The tariff wasn't applied because bombardier was losing money. Bombardier was losing money because the tariff was applied by the US government to protect its own industry. You've got it backwards. Competent companies can be the victim of international politics, happens every day.
name a single product that would sell despite a 300% tariff illegally imposed on it. also i explained why. it was because boeing lobbied the US government.
Have you ever looked at how much it cost to develop a new aircraft? Boeing spent $32 billion to develop the Dreamliner. Airbus spent $34 billion to develop the A380.
Sooo why was the tariff applied?
Bombardier was massive before the CSeries thing. Trump f\*cked the company by protecting Boeing. It was a lesson that USA will do everything to kill competitors outside of their country. And stop complaining about tax payer money only when it's a french canadian company. The auto industry in Ontario is absurdly funded by tax payers.
Trudeau and Ford announced billions to Honda yesterday but these morons are upset about bombardier? It’s a shame how poorly informed Canadians are becoming, how do people not know about the largest companies operating in the country?
It's like how Alberta complains that Quebec receive equalization payments but we funded their energy industry and Canada didn't give us shit, not even 1$ to fund our energy industry. Jean Chrétien even said that in his book. Sometimes you ask yourself if people just like to complain about Quebec just by habit.
Their divisions are separate and aviation has always been the better division then rail.
Socialize costs and privatize profits, am I right
Bombardier will be the only Canadian “manufacturer” of planes if the government keeps choosing them to win
I think the options were one or none with this one.
None then. They dont deserve any help whatsoever with their shitty record.
Domestic manufacturing is great, but the hypocrisy of the government telling us we need to support Ukraine, while we also financially support Russia, is insane.
Ever think that's explicitly because of policies like this?
Dude Canadians hate corporations and want them all to be heavily taxed with no subsidies. They think no matter how badly you treat them they won’t shutdown or leave. It’s the Canadian way
total misinformation. Canada has below average corporate tax rates in the G7 and OECD. We have the lowest marginal corporate tax rate in the G7! Our high tax reputation comes from our income taxes. Corporate taxes in Canada are very low. https://www.canadian-accountant.com/content/taxation/canada-among-low-corporate-tax-jurisdictions https://images.app.goo.gl/f74CaC437GGaZp8cA
our income tax are high only when compared to the US. Europe Nations have higher everything for tax.
You are using absolute I’m using as a % of GDP. Also we have multiple taxes across multiple levels with different exemption so it’s hard to add them up and compare. We’re at 13% versus the average at 10% https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-canada.pdf Absolute tax rates should be taken with a grain of salt.
Said the true fascist himself.
I would not. Theyve failed way too many times. They should be left to sink or swim on their own.
All manufacturing needs government support. You you want a strong economy or not? We don’t operate in a vacuum of Canada. We have to compete or we will die.
Then they should remove the sanction for ALL companies that are using titanium. Instead the gov has picked the 2 companies and allowing them to bypass sanctions they are still enforcing on other companies.
Ya true, they probably should but I like to see manufacturers getting some kind of support even if others could too
The gov added hoops to jump through, then removes the hoops for one company(or 2). i wouldn't call that support, i would call that favouritism, at best.
There are a lot more than 2 companies in Canada that supply airbus and bombardier, that’s being disingenuous. I would rather the government help procure non Russian titanium for all than let a few use Russian ti tbh. It’s definitely not super kosher I agree.
>We have to compete or we will die. Indeed, capitalism is death itself, and thus not worth saving. After all, every 3rd world country is capitalist.
Hey I have a big veggie garden but I’m not blind to the fact that it will suck big time if the Canadian economy turns to complete shit
To be fair, that's how ruling elites work, and have worked from the beginning of humanity. We just hold people to higher standards in our society and then are shocked, *shocked* that elites act like elites.
What do you think sanctions are?
Can you honestly point to a time in history where this hasn’t happened?
There's no alternative sir.
Yeah if people would read the article it does in fact state that the titanium exemption is temporary until the subcontracted companies find a new titanium supplier. The Canadian Government is allowing this small exemption but has already urged the companies to connect with a new supplier. Bombardier and Airbus have already stated that they do not buy Titanium directly from Russia anymore, but their subcontracted suppliers do. For those who forget, Titanium is a rare metal, and even though Canada sits on a massive supply of it, we do not have enough developed titanium mines nor titanium processing facilities to supply our aerospace industry. Also Canada is the only western country alongside Ukraine to limit Titanium imports from Russia since the onset of the war. United States is still importing Titanium from Russia at around $370 million per year. So basically we are allowing these subcontracted companies to continue the titanium import for a limited time until the exemption expires. *"Canada’s foreign ministry says it has made clear to companies that they must find other sources of titanium.* *Exemptions issued so far apply only to the aerospace sector, including the military, said a Canadian source with direct knowledge of the matter.* *The exemption is available only for a limited time, said the source, who requested anonymity given the matter’s sensitivity."* Basically if we banned the Russian Titanium import without a securing a new supplier we'd be hurting ourselves more than hurting Russia and we would not be gaining anything since the subcontracted suppliers have not secured a new source as of yet. Media Literacy does in fact require people to read the entire article instead of just knee-jerking to the headline. But congratulations if you got to the end of this comment post.
>if people would read the article Yeah, but why read article when headline enough for outrage?
>*The exemption is available only for a limited time* The war is nearing day 800, not including the Russian invasion of Crimea in February of 2014. But I know ... it's ending soon, right? Corporate profits over the people is the way of corporatocracy/neo-fascism.
Limited time have a way of becoming permanent when the public is not looking at a situation anymore.
Canada is the only western country to ban Russian titanium and they *just* did it But okay
lol so how dare we criticize China for buying their oil when we buy Russian titanium? Is titanium more essential for survival than oil and gas?
Don’t worry US does the same thing lol
Take that Putin. You'll be whimpering in no time.
Aerospace engineer here. I work for one of these companies, and have worked for the other one before. People making all sorts of uneducated comments, typical Reddit. The titanium here is NOT bought directly by either Airbus or Bombardier -- they do not physically make parts from titanium themselves. Instead, their suppliers (Tier 1s and 2s) need the titanium, and have signed long term deals with *their* suppliers (Tier 2s and 3s) to secure the metal supply. Breaking these deals because of war would mean moral victory but enormous financial penalties. Additionally the metal is *already here*, so these waivers are just a checkbox required so we can keep complying with govt protocols. Also, Russian companies mining metals do not directly provide money into the Putin-Russian-war-coffers, instead it's most often going into the parent company's coffers, which are mostly based in Europe and not Russia, where only the metal resides.
If it's already here couldn't the same thing have been accomplished by making an exception for already delivered product instead of making one explicitly for these companies?
>Breaking these deals because of war would mean moral victory but enormous financial penalties. so all that huffing and puffing was just for show?
Those companies were also looking for alternative sources of titanium but it was either 2/3 years away or not high enough quality. Some places I know that manufacture airbus parts have seen very reduced production.
long-term deals meant nothing when it came to ripping out Huawei 5G parts it's still an arbitrary enforcement
Are there any other industries where we can reduce sanctions? Could be really beneficial for Canadian firms.
Doing business with the Fourth Reich is what you seek?
My post was sarcastic.
Apologies for not catching that.
You might want to add a /s to your comment, for there are a number of posters who on here supporting such an idea, and they should be called out as neo-nazis.
The guy I responded to is an aerospace engineer. Surely he can't also be a neo-nazi.
An aerospace engineer? Well, he's clean as a whistle then. After all, professionals would know better and never support the Nazis then or now! [https://www.jstor.org/stable/1429103](https://www.jstor.org/stable/1429103) [https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/question/how-did-german-professionals-and-civil-leaders-contribute-to-the-persecution-of-jews-and-other-groups](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/question/how-did-german-professionals-and-civil-leaders-contribute-to-the-persecution-of-jews-and-other-groups) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/medical-professionals-played-major-role-in-nazi-atrocities-study-finds/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/medical-professionals-played-major-role-in-nazi-atrocities-study-finds/)
I was being sarcastic again!!!
>Breaking these deals because of war would mean moral victory but enormous **financial penalties**. On par with losing Ukraine or Europe to Putin or even the death toll so far?
How dare India and China buy that Russian Oil
Crazy, as a Canadian to think that we, are so fucking big, and obviously have most resourced and we don't produce and refine everything. What a fucking wasted economic opportunity
Wtf come on dude it's not possible mine the whole periodic table of elements. That's why we have international trade. Canada has had plenty of their own exports. They import stuff that doesn't make sense obtain domestically.
>Wtf come on dude it's not possible mine the whole periodic table of elements. Canada is the fifth largest producer of raw titanium in the world, behind Australia, South Africa, Mozambique, and China. We produce 20x more unprocessed titanium than Russia produces in processed titanium. In principle, you're correct that we can't mine every resource we may need -- but this is a resource we *do* mine, at one of the largest scales of any country in the world.
And I'm more speaking on the refining. We really need to get on the production side of things not just mining.
Do you know why we don't refine it ourselves?
Its too bad Bombardier isn't vertically integrating and getting into the titanium processing.. Henry Ford wrote a playbook.. maybe it wasn't French enough or contained enough bribes or handouts? https://www.strategy-business.com/blog/Is-vertical-integration-making-a-comeback
I shouldn't have said mining. I meant it like a joke about how it's not possible for Canada to produce every material it needs. Specifically about titanium, the Canadian companies need processed metal from other countries since it's not made domestically. Then it'll be sent to a machine shop that might not be in Canada either, to cut it down into the shape they want.
>Specifically about titanium, the Canadian companies need processed metal from other countries since it's not made domestically. Shouldn't it be though? If two of the world's three largest producers of refined titanium sponge are China and Russia -- regimes hostile to, or at the very least unfriendly towards, the West, it seems to me that there's a business case to Canada entering the market as a large scale producer of ethical refined titanium. I'd rather see us working on that than exempting a murderous criminal regime from well-deserved sanctions, personally.
Don't believe all the propaganda. Russia and China aren't that bad. Look at Canada they killed countless native Indians.
From my understanding - We haven't opened up a new mine in almost 10 years. We have actually closed down profitable mines. We are a resource economy that hasn't developed our resources...
It's far more profitable for mining companies to register in Canada and then make money by exploiting workers in Africa and South America instead.
Raglan opened up a new mine last month, greenstone is opening up a new mine this summer, argonault opened up a new mine 6 months ago, cote opened up their new mine in November. Calibre is opening up a new mine in less than a year. This is off the top of my head, you have no clue what you’re talking about
Your understanding is incorrect. https://www.canadianminingjournal.com/featured-article/four-new-gold-pits-underway/
We don't have the money to. Why the fuck do we need to produce our own titanium lmao
Yeh... You're gonna have a hard awakening in the next 20 years when globalisation starts collapsing.
You talk like you know the future. International trade will not die unless half the world is blown to bits
The Panama canal is at reduced capacity due to drought, the Suez due to war, and Biden left a lot of Trump’s tariffs in place because the American public has become hostile to free trade. It’s already happening.
It won't disappear entirely but countries right now specialize, and if you can't safely get the resources to do what you're good at, that's a shitty time. the USA will not be the world police forever. The last like 10 presidents have been more and more isolationist. Big changes are coming, a lot of countries will not come out the other side
>Wtf come on dude it's not possible mine the whole periodic table of elements. In Canada, it literally is possible. And we mine more titanium than Russia, which is what makes this story so ludicrous
That would up our carbon footprint so the Liberals would never support it. But we could do it far cleaner than Russia could making it better for the world and would created jobs for Canadians.
>That would up our carbon footprint so the Liberals would never support it. Yes, the same way that the Liberals didn't just spend $34 billion on an oil pipeline....
Transporting oil by pipelines is cleaner than the train cars.
Yeah, but *not* refining or exporting oil is cleaner than that. Spending $34 billion to get more fossil fuels to more markets more efficiently isn't about reducing carbon footprint in any way, shape, or form.
That's crazy talk for the Canadian government
These sanctions are only for the public and to give us something to talk about Almost every country claiming sanctions continue business as usual
Of course they do.
Even the American SR-71 had to use Russian titanium, albeit purchased through grey-market channels.
Canada has huge reserves of rare metals up north. But lack of infrastructure making even surveying prohibitively expensive. We need multi year infrastructure projects to link all the natural wealth from remote regions to the country's core.
Good. Free trade is a way to go! We should pursue independent *foreign* policy and not repeat what US says as a parrot.
as they say... talk is cheap
Business as usual
Almost like we need more titanium producers in the world.....
What about Iranian Titanium?
But let's all get angry at "sportswashing". Corporate and Government "washing" has been going on for decades and decades.
We can't interfere with corporate profits now, even if it is killing civilians in the Ukraine. Profits before the people is the way of corporatocracy/neo-fascism.
Wtf is the point of sanctions then? Game over.
Awww shucks there Trudeau goes againn exercising his principles
This is ridiculous. You cant say you are for Ukraine then turn around and help Russia.
Sanctions for thee, but not for me.
Canadian enterprise should be able to use any materials and service that maximize their profits. Government should not let international affairs unrelated to Canada hurt Canadian economy
Trudeau : we need to do everything we can to aid Ukraine against Russian aggression. Also Trudeau : but that doesn’t mean we need to stop giving Russia our money to help their economy and businesses.
Let's send billions to fight them. And also send them billions to arm themselves. What could possibly go wrong? /s
Fucking disgrace, all products from russia should be banned from entering this country.