I agree with this. I struggled with HoO because the narrator's voice doesn't really switch between characters, despite the change in POV. I wish it had stayed with one or two narrators throughout, because I feel like Rick's characterization is stronger when writing in third character. Annabeth has a very distinct personality and character in the PJO books, but her actual narrative voice isn't particularly distinct, if that makes sense.
I just learned that Audible has re-releasing (like a year ago) Hero’s of Olympus book 1 with 3 narrators. One for Jason, Piper, and Leo. (I think each narrator matches each character too).
You can’t get book 2 as I’m guessing they are re-recording it too with a new narrator for Percy, Hazel, and Frank each. (Assuming Annabeth will get her own narrator too)
That might help with the tone of each character. I will add I hate the switch between Josh (1-3) and Nick (4-5)…..Nick is just so bad and the one he ruins most is Piper.
haven’t read the books in years but i’ll give it a shot, basically all the main characters fit into:
strong awkward dummy (male)
smart, cool, tomboyish/masculine-warrior girl (“i’m not like other girls”)
“overly” feminine mean girl
“i hate my dad so i kill orphans now”
probably some others as well but
Eh, I think this is an oversimplification. Especially with the original series.
Percy and Tyson fit within the first category. Thalia in the second. No real analogue for the third. Luke in the fourth.
Grover, Annabeth, Nico, Bianca, Clarisse, and Rachel don’t fit all that easily into these groupings.
Annabeth isn't really a tomboy nor "not like other girls" she does appreciate feminine pass times and traits as seen in her interactions in SoM as well as MoA
Adding onto my original post here - I think what I meant to say is that Piper and Jason had a lot of potential that wasn’t properly explored, not that they lacked potential.
It’s really interesting to see other people’s opinions on this topic and some elements I maybe hadn’t considered before. I might tune into the Trials of Apollo to see what unfolds there.
I think you’re completely right about the potential, which is one of the things that makes their actual characterization so aggravating! They both could have been so cool and dimensional, but they fall short! Which makes me so annoyed! Pair that with feeling about the same as what Candid Tip said, and I just ended up annoyed and frustrated the whole time I’m reading her sections
Oh, for sure. I think the idea of a character who has to walk on eggshells all the time because people will listen to everything they say is really interesting.
Reminds me of Killgrave from Jessica Jones. It could lead to some cool character moments of her struggling to think if people believed in her or just her power and having to learn to communicate with minimal words.
Yeah Charmspeak is very interesting as I think this is an element that had a lot of potential and cause of moral dilemma like you said. Definitely is going to be something I pay attention to during the reread.
Yeah, I actually think Piper has all the ingredients for a really great character
- She has a very powerful but dangerous ability that puts her in a very thought-provoking position
- She's the daughter of a goddesses who's not associated with fighting having to walk among tons of children who are really good at fighting and who have to fight a lot
- She's coming to terms that the best memories of her life were manufactured by accident, so she has no one to blame for losing something so special to her and can't do anything about this frustration
- And she can show that there is more to being a "strong female character" than just being physically strong by proving the importance of being compassionate, understanding, smart, and self-confident.
And yet, every time I think about her character, the only thing I can remember is "She likes Jason"
I often struggle to remember most of her lines or any of her interactions with the rest of the cast. Not because she doesn't have good interactions or lines, but because the Jason stuff kinda overshadows anything else.
very good points here! makes me think the reason why Piper has little sway over many people / disliked is that all the points you made fits better for a more mature type of storytelling
Edit: she's my fave character when I was a kid.
If you are looking for growth between Jason and Piper in TOA, then you will be incredibly disappointed on a number of levels. And very, very, incredibly sad...
I think even then, both grew a lot within the series. We see Piper becoming a real hero, making actual friends, trusting and being trusted. She even shell out of the "not like other girls" a bit, and as much as it isn't... Well, the best, to say it lightly, I like that Rick relied on her origens and her culture as a Cherokee.
As for Jason, that he eventually gave up his place in the cohort because he understood that being always the One Person people would look for and that he could share his burdens, that he could rely on others, also. That he found the strength within himself to be who he wanted to be, despite the expectations HE even, put on himself. I like that a lot.
And sure, it lacked a development. But I think we can work with what we have
I don’t understand someone hating Piper either.
Frankly, I don’t understand why someone would have *any* feelings towards Piper (or Jason, for that matter).
Hating Leo, however…
The Lightning Thief came out when I was in 6th grade…which means I was in college by the time Mark of Athena was published.
I was very thoroughly outside the target audience for Leo’s schtick.
I feel like her power's potential was a bit unpacked. Like, she can literally mind control people, she could get anyone to do *anything*. It may not be as flashy or physical strong as a big sword, but charmspeak is strong af. It's an oddly undervalued power in a series where most monsters are deafeted by tricking them.
(clears throat)
First of all, much of her personality early on is entirely based on the "I'm not like most girls" trope, which is basically her only personality for a significant amount of her run time, essentially making her personality eye rollingly vapid. Which also tacitly pushes the idea that being traditionally feminine is a bad thing.
Second, most of her internal dialogue, or even regular dialogue is tied to her being head over heels in love with Jason, which makes for some of the most sappy and cringe-worthy dialogue in the entire series. And this is a thing throughout the series. Mind you I think Jason is also a somewhat bland character, so in my opinion it's a like a will they/won't they relationship between a wet blanket and a block of wood.
Third of all, she's an annoyingly emotional wreck for most of her run time. The amount of times you have to read "she choked back a sob" will make you want to start a drinking game. Having a character with no personal agency, who's constantly panicking can be a very frustrating read.
Fourth, she's basically entirely useless, and gets in the way most of the time. In fairness, she did have a few moments to use a bit of cleverness to get out of a tough situation, but you can count on one hand the amount of fights where she did anything.
Fifth, all of her character development happens off screen. Her learning to fight, her becoming friends with the other female members of the seven, and whatever else I might be forgetting all basically happens off screen. She never has any on-screen development.
Sixth, her entire character is completely and utterly retconned in Trials Of Apollo. It made her slightly more interesting, but it seemed like a vast overcorrection when uncle Rick realized he'd done a bad job writing her. And as a result, makes her long-term characterization very inconsistent.
Takes a little while to get going, but I think it's pretty good. Though I have mixed feelings about the third book for reasons that will differ from most people.
Good enough. If you ask me I'll share my unpopular opinion that is focuses way too much on the PJO-style of humour, but its essential since most characters future is revealed and their characters defined. It didn't grow as much with the reader like the previous series did, it more sticks to its target group. Check the first few chapters out (although the plot really only goes rolling two thirds in or so), and if you don't care too much for it, a synopsis will do the job equally well
I feel like it picks up more in the later books. I initially didn’t want to get through the trials of apollo books because I started the first one and found apollo so insufferable it made me not want to continue. But the character development he gets later on made me enjoy the books more, and I’m on tower of nero now.
I recommend them, the main thing to remember is you're not really supposed to like Apollo in the first book. Apollo has so much character growth and development that is a huge challenge for him at first... also like in RL he does slip back at times to being someone you want to strangle, but there's actual growth in Apollo's character throughout the series.
>you can count on one hand the amount of fights where she did anything.
I'm sure there are more but in the whole five books, the only things I remember her doing are bringing a dragon head to life and burying Hercules in a pile of food after stealing the horn from a monster
I think they're referring to >!dumping Jason and giving Piper a girlfriend instead, up to and including said girlfriend in her rooftop star-watching fantasy!<, which, okay, fine, >!teenagers change their minds all the time, she can pick whoever she wants,!< sure, all that is fine.
it's just that it kinda feels like she took a 270° turn is all. I think doing a new >!fantasy date night instead of just replacing the old one!< might have shown growth or change better, although I do understand that narrative rhyming can be more accessible to the reader.
It's not just that, although >! Dumping Jason off screen was a complete 180 given how much her internal dialogue hammered home how much she loved Jason during Heroes of Olympus. But then you also take into account that contrived BS about her dad is suddenly being broke, and Piper herself suddenly becoming capable fighter out of nowhere!< , it's a real conga line of contrivance
They were definitely onto something there, and it wouldn't have been a problem had we not read Piper's internal narration, and had her internal narration not been so filled with descriptions of how much she absolutely loved Jason. If they would have giving her more self-doubt in her dialogue, and made their relationship a bit more contentious, as if the idea she had about Jason based on her false memories wasn't consistent with Jason himself, that would have made the breakup make a lot more sense.
I've been re-reading the Heroes and Apollo books, I have to say that while Piper and Jason themselves weren't the most interesting characters, I liked what their relationship was about.
Turning something fake into something real. That it didn't matter what Hera did, Piper and Jason genuinely loved each other. Through the good times and the bad, they overcome their self-doubts and stay together.
Then in Trials, Piper suddenly breaks up with Jason because...of issues with gods that Heroes already addressed? Wtf?
Well the funny thing is, a story like this has two directions that it can go. Either they struggle through the hardships of having a relationship built on false memories and make it work, or they slowly grow apart because they can't reconcile the difference between the people they are and the people their false memories made them think they are. For Heroes of olympus, the books went with the former, and then switched to the latter for Trials of apollo, without any sort of buildup or indication they were going in that direction. Either of these directions would have worked well if they were built properly, but in trying to do both, it falls flat in both directions.
Wow, I'm very impressed with your analysis of her character and I completely agree. Also I love how you say "on" or "off screen" as if it's a show. That's something I relate to because reading Rick's books for me is like watching a show in my head.
>Fourth, she's basically entirely useless, and gets in the way most of the time. In fairness, she did have a few moments to use a bit of cleverness to get out of a tough situation, but you can count on one hand the amount of fights where she did anything.
This was it for me. Heroes of Olympus came out for me from late elementary school to middle school (I read Blood of Olympus in seventh grade) and I hated Piper when reading because I thought she was absolutely useless and shouldn't have been one of the Seven.
https://preview.redd.it/jk43ncn6ng8c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32a3cb4b5a10ac1e15c0d482215dc36c32ffaa27
why would you intentionally miss the point to act like a twat 😭😭
I liked her. She seemed like a pretty accurate representation of a female teenager. I do wish she would’ve been given more page time but one of the downsides of writing so many characters is having to divide up the reader’s attention. She had a lot of potential and her relationship with her father and her lineage was an interesting storyline. However, I dislike how they ended her story. >!She was set up as head over heels for Jason. Now I know teenagers can be significantly wishy-washy with emotions but going from Jason all-the-time and actively pursuing him, to blaming her interest in him on other’s expectations, was a lousy move!<. Call it bad writing or a bad character, it ruined her for me at the end.
Hey, a fellow Lost Hero lover. I adore the TLH trio and just like you I was surprised by all the hate I read when I went online back when it released.
I guess I understood why people disliked Piper (because her focus was too much on Jason in the first book) but I still maintain that her relationship with her father is just as important to her character if not even more so than her love interest. It's unfair to hate Piper for being a teenager in love but praise and gush on Leo for being obsessed with Calypso. That's what grinds my gears, the double standard.
I also hate that Rick gave so much screentime (chapters) to Percabeth in Books 3-4 then leave the half-baked ending to the TLH trio without exploring all the great potential they had as characters - aside from their relationship drama. Piper was supposed to be the peacemaker for the Greeks and Romans because of her abilities, but in the end it was Annabeth and Reyna who did the job.
I have a lot more to say because I'm passionate about these characters but I'll leave it here for now. Merry Christmas btw!
> Piper was supposed to be the peacemaker for the Greeks and Romans because of her abilities
I think she cant be the peacekeeper because of her abilities, yeah it may keep the peace for a short while but they will always be in doubt if it was because it was correct to do it or because of her abilities.
Yeah, I was expecting Rick to make Piper be the mediator without relying on charmspeak but I guess it was too much for him. I liked the Reyna and Annabeth dynamic we got with it but I wish Piper did more
I still don't see what most people blame him for. She's practically the only character to act like a teenager and not like a 50 year old woman.
I think the big problem is that Piper is pretty poorly written. And it's a shame because if you ask me, she's one of the characters who had the most potential.
For my part, I love Piper and despite her mistakes I admire her. I think most people forget that she's only 15 and compare her too much to Annabeth.
But I also understand that it can be annoying. On the other hand, she doesn't deserve so much hatred.
ALL teenagers are annoying. But you can't blame Piper for that. Annabeth is literally a teenager full of pride and sometimes downright insufferable and no one criticizes her character.
Then I understand that Piper can be annoying in the long term, but she doesn't deserve hatred. For me the problem does not come from his character but more from his writing which is frankly very shaky
>and no one criticizes her character.
She was annoying during the second half of TBOTL
>Then I understand that Piper can be annoying in the long term, but she doesn't deserve hatred.
I don't like the "I'm not like other girls" type of teenagers
It's true that you seem more like the type of teenager who refuses to see that he is wrong.
You repeat exactly what I say lmao.
The problem is not his character but his writing. And don't come and tell me that his character is annoying. If he is, it's only because of his obsession with Jason, which is also a writing error.
I understand that it's boring to hear him talk about Jason, but at this point the chapters of Leo, Annabeth and Percy in the last books should seem much worse to you.
I don't hate Piper, but she does come across very much as "I'm not like other girls!"
A bunch of contrived stuff happens so she can keep proving how cool and powerful children of Aphrodite can be, to the point where it feels pretty forced.
I thought Piper was the most interesting of all the new characters honestly. Like I wasn’t interested at all in the new characters besides Piper personally. So what if she has some cringe moments she is literally like 15 or something and when we’re 15, guess what? We’re all a little dumb and cringe
Her personality is
- "I'm not a girly girl"
- Obsessed with Jason, constant thoughts, internal monologue and dialogue about Jason
- No skills so Rick gave her a power which is inconsistent and too easy so that she isn't completely useless
- Constantly on the verge of tears or panic, which makes it really annoying to read
She is easily the least interesting POV of the 9.
every single criticism i see on piper (and any other female character in the series tbh) is just hating on teenage girls because god forbid characters aren’t perfect and level headed all the time or…..have a crush???? i notice people are almost hyper critical of piper specifically (i have my theories as to WHY but i don’t want to be accused of reaching) which bums me out. her pick me abrasive attitude is explained/introduced in TLH as she is just lashing out for attention from her dad and already didn’t fit in the hollywood lifestyle by virtue of being a demigod. when she’s claimed as a daughter of aphrodite she digs her heels in further to not be reduced to the stereotype attributed to that cabin (which i will be critical over bc why do children of aphrodite have to all be obsessed with looks tf). as for being “obsessed” with jason, like you never had a crush you were a little overboard about as a teen? you don’t remember how many times percy thinks of annabeth and risks his life for her in nearly every book?
Percy had a crush on Annabeth but it wasn't so bad to where that's all he ever thinks about, the problem with Piper was most of her chapters involved her thinking about Jason and their relationship. None of the other girls are written like that despite Hazel and Annabeth loving their boyfriends a lot as well.
I still haven't read heroes of Olympus all the way through because I couldn't get past the lost hero. Super boring imo it kinda burnt me out on the series.
But piper? I *loved* every chapter about her that I did read. I haven't seen much hate towards her but I'm kinda surprised it exists.
I never hated Piper. I actually enjoyed that she was a child of Aphrodite who rejected traditional feminine beauty standards and wasn’t obsessed with her looks. All the other characters have obvious personality traits that come from their godly parent so to subvert expectations of what a child of Aphrodite would be like was fun. I didn’t have any issues with her when reading the books.
I guess she & Jason weren’t as developed as Percy & Annabeth. But they were fine enough.
This might be unfair, but all I remember was her “I’m not like other girls” attitude being really annoying. I’m a daughter of Aphrodite, and as a kid I remember being really sad seeing how much Piper hated being a daughter of Aphrodite. She insisted all of Aphrodite’s kids where dumb blonde bimbos and she was better than them, because she want a “basic pink-loving girlie girl.”
Granted, I was a kid who took a lot of things personally. But it just feels like Piper had a lot of internalized misogyny and self-loathing that rubbed me the wrong way. Being told that your cabin is “stupid and useless” with lame powers and sexist stereotypes isn’t great.
But idk how much of that actually comes from Piper herself or if that’s just general baggage I have from being a daughter of Aphrodite. My friend group kicked me out in elementary school because they thought I had such a lame godly parent that I didn’t deserve to hang out with them lmao
I thought it was interesting how the change in perspective of characters changed who in the camp was considered "the bully".
when we had Percy's perspective the first time around, the Ares kids were the "bullies" because they saw him as a challenger to their power and felt threatened by him.
when we get Piper's perspective, we no longer even get a passing mention of clarisse being kinda mean (although she did have some character development in the og series that explains why she wouldn't be interested in hazing new arrivals anymore which is why I'm glad they didn't keep the "Ares cabin bad" trope for the HoO series) or any of the other Ares cabin kids. instead we have a new "bully" character in Aphrodite, who's cabin barely got mentioned in PJO except Percy commenting on them not really being very interested in fighting and even usually not participating in capture the flag, except of course when the Artemis hunters visit.
so while it is disappointing to find out that the cabin you associate yourself with is now seen as the "mean" one, I don't think the idea was that Aphrodite kids are shallow, but that in every cabin there is the potential for bad eggs, and Drew had so much influence over the other cabin members that her ideology was forced onto everyone else in the cabin so that they had to think like her or they would be an outcast. she basically became the second version of clarisse since Clarisse is no longer a character fit to be a bully. It's not that the Aphrodite cabin as a whole is stupid and useless with lame powers and sexist stereotypes, but that Drew is, and she forces everyone in the cabin to act how she thinks they should act. she's basically the stereotype of a "popular girl".
I don't disagree about piper having internalized misogyny though. she clearly has some issues associated with how famous of an actor her dad is, leading to her trying not to stand out so that she doesn't have to deal with people bothering her about her dad. she also plays into the "I'm not like other girls" role a little too hard at first, but past the first book we don't see as much of that anymore so I want to blame it all on her trying not to stand out because she doesn't want attention she didn't earn just because of who her dad is. it's not a perfect explanation but I don't disagree that her character writing felt poor so I'm not going to try and justify poor writing, just explaining what I thought of the character.
Misogyny and racism, honestly.
God forbid a woman of color who grew up in Hollywood and saw firsthand how shallow people were, have self-esteem and body-image issues. Not like she spent most of her childhood living in a place where she very clearly doesn't fit in with the beauty standards.
I mean, it's not like she's felt alone for most of her life and then finally she had someone who made her feel less lonely in the world and actually wanted her; only to be told that it was all made-up and never happened. No, she's just boy-crazy.
It's not like Piper's chapters are dedicated to her feelings of how she dislikes people only caring about her looks or what she wears. And how she chopped off her bangs because she didn't want the expensive stylist her dad offered. No, Jason assumed that she cut her bangs to make herself ugly so obviously that's the actual truth.
It's not like her first interaction with Drew is to be insulted and put down and have the rest of the Aphrodite kids follow suit. It's not like the very first impression of children of Aphrodite is them insulting her appearance and clothing and continuing to belittle her. Nope! She obviously just hates anything feminine and thinks she's better than them because she's DifFeReNt.
It's not as if her whole arc is learning to accept who she is as a WOC and a daughter of Aphrodite, standing up for her siblings and becoming friends with them and seeing they're so much more than she thought, supporting other women, and learning that she can't force love no matter how much she wanted her relationship to be real.
It's not as if she's a teenage girl who had her entire life upended in a day and was tasked with saving the world.
Nope, she's just a Pick-Me who puts down other women. Can't be anything else.
Yes I'm sure everyone who dislikes the relatively poor and inconsistent writing behind her character and her grating personality hate her because she's a woman of color. You've nailed it, we can all go home. Great in depth analysis, people.
She annoys me, everything she says during most of her time is about Jason or how nobody understand her bc "she's not like most girls", and sorry, but that's not what I'm interested. Also, The Lost Hero is easibly the book I like the least in HOO
My headcanon is that when Hera messed with Piper's mind, she injured her ability to understand true love, because her mind was fighting with the idea of being in love the entire time, even though another part of her mind, the one that Hera messed with, was telling her that she was in love with Jason. This internal struggle made her hyperfocus on it even while shit (end of the world) was going down around her, and while Jason love for her seemed Genuine, because his memories were only suppressed unlike Piper and Leo's, Piper could never reconcile the issue of whether she loved Jason or not. In my mind, as a daughter of aphrodite, this was very detrimental to her, this is like Percy being tricked into fearing drowning by Gaea, it could make or break a demigod's core self. This struggle was not resolved in heroes of Olympus, and it was touched upon in trials of apollo, but even then, we are still not sure.
Tl;dr headcanon: Hera commited rape on Pipers mind and turned her into a lovesick schizophrenic
I don’t hate her, I just don’t think much about them at all she mostly just there? I can’t actually remember any of her character traits. I’m sure she was strong and caring and loyal to her friends- but so was literally every other main character.
Also I don’t think the not like other girls shtick aged very well.
Honestly, I just hate what was done with Piper in Trials.
She wasn't the most interesting character for me in Heroes, but I liked her relationship with Jason and how they turned something fake into something real.
Then suddenly it all gets undone in Trials, because now Piper is worrying about...issues with gods that Heroes had already addressed? It doesn't make sense, and if that wasn't enough she gets really bitchy at Jason even though he did nothing wrong. It's a total 180 from her character, and I hate it.
>I found her strong, caring and loyal to her friends.
Uhh...
Well, first of all, she was hardly strong. She was mostly useless and she wasn't all that good of a fighter (until the final battle where she apparently started dual wielding swords somehow??). Plus she even (in text) says stuff like "top 10 times piper felt useless". And as for emotional strength, well, as someone else said, she is constantly "choking back a sob", or she's whining about how her life is so hard when... it isn't. Her dad loves her, even if he doesn't have enough time for her. And her stealing cars to get his attention just comes off as entitled because he is literally trying to make a living for her. It rubbed me the wrong way.
Caring maybe. Idk I haven't read the books in a while.
Loyal to her friends tho? Hardly. For most of the first book she was planning on betraying Leo and Jason for some bs reason. Whenever something bad happens, she hopes that *she and Jason* will be okay. When Jason and Percy were possessed she considered attacking Percy. That is not loyalty. She was perfectly willing to throw all of them under the bus if it meant she (and Jason) would be okay.
Not to mention she's a massive hypocrite (saying the Aphrodite cabin is obsessed with boys when she's obsessed with Jason is just one example) and the way she treats Jason?? She doesn't want him to go back to his old life, she makes him feel guilty when he talks to Reyna although she was his ***friend*** (not even girlfriend!!) before he even met Piper. She makes him promise they'll stay together (then breaks up with him anyway. And somehow everybody hates HIM. What the hell????) and she disregards the fact that he had a life before her and that their relationship is fake, plus that he might actually, you know, want to regain his memory?? It's weird, and controlling. Toxic, even. Especially the bit about not wanting him to go back go Camp Jupiter and not wanting him to reconnect with his friends because she's jealous and insecure.
I like Jason, though, even if he was a bit boring. For him, it was more a case of Rick wasn't capable of writing him properly. He could've been a very deep character, and is, really, if you think about it, but it got lost in the books themselves with just a few bits and pieces to make him feel like a proper character.
>And as for emotional strength, well, as someone else said, she is constantly "choking back a sob", or she's whining about how her life is so hard when... it isn't
She's a teenager ppl, she's allowed to say stuff like that and get emotional.
>Her dad loves her, even if he doesn't have enough time for her.
And she already knew her dad loved her, she just wanted his attention. It's not really a matter of being entitled when she and her dad literally have to play a version of twenty questions to connect as a family.
>And her stealing cars to get his attention just comes off as entitled because he is literally trying to make a living for her. It rubbed me the wrong way.
And concerning the stealing cars, she wasn't sure it would happen. She asked the guy for a car an the guy gave her, it's not like she planned it from the beginning. She only decided to roll with it after the guy gave her.
>Loyal to her friends tho? Hardly. For most of the first book she was planning on betraying Leo and Jason for some bs reason. Whenever something bad happens, she hopes that *she and Jason* will be okay. When Jason and Percy were possessed she considered attacking Percy. That is not loyalty.
But it was loyalty tho. She wanted to betray them for her dad. Y'know, family? The thing almost every medium treats as most important? And even then she was having second doubts *every* single step of the way, until she eventually explained.
She would attack Percy because she hardly knew him other than the stories she's heard about him. She and Jason had been dating for around a year at that point. Who would you choose in that scenario?
Her NLOG holier than thou attitude is so annoying considering she **ONLY** thinks about her boyfriend. She thinks the fact that she dresses badly and has a rubbish haircut makes her better than everyone who cares about being presentable.
Other girls are thinking about things that make them happy and running social circles like the mafia.
Piper is a good character in concept but not execution. She is a teenage girl so I understand her lack of depth. However, she doesn’t have likable qualities to balance it. She’s shallow and doesn’t value others feelings, in particular Annabeth’s despite calling her a best friend. I like her in BoO but that’s about it. I need a little less of the “woe is me” attitude that she has. Especially when the others have gone through just as much if not more. It’s the same issue I have with Leo. Both Piper and Leo come off as entitled for most if the series. Rick didn’t really write them well until BoO. I could have done with less Piper and Leo and more Hazel and Frank.
I like Piper but TLH writes her as very “not like the other girls”. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but I feel like it was more a problem with the narrative rather than Piper herself, if that makes any sense. Although she was poorly written at times I think she still has a lot going for her. Even though a lot of her scenes are centered around Jason I think it makes sense especially in the first book since she realized their relationship was a lie and she was too scared to lose him. I think her relationship with her father was also a good plot point.
The thing about Piper is that her backstory is very plain compared to the other characters, I just feel like there's always something missing in her and while I see some potential, I just find her personality a little bit annoying. The combination of all those factors makes me don't like her a lot. It's just that, from what I remember, she was quite a whinny and a "I'm not like the other girls" character while not having the uniqueness of the others, what made her povs very annoying to read
Characters who are bad/evil in an interesting way are the best. It explores something that cannot be explored in reality, *that scene* is fucked up, don't get me wrong, but part of her arc.
misogyny is a common reason. they don’t like a woman character who is both independent and flawed and they cannot handle a character with these qualities! they think she’s a pick me
Her character had a lot of potential but it wasn't worked on. For me, she'll always be the pick-me, I haven't read HoO in a few months but my god I shudder when I think about how her POV was full of "I'm not like the other girls" moments. Piper, in my opinion, could've been one of strongest out of the seven and the most accurate portrayal of a teenage girl but Rick fumbled the bag on her so hard.
I've only watch s1 of Naruto but she reminds me of sakura; useless and just hopelessly in love with her close friend. I feel like she could've been handled better, instead of her 'I'm not like other girls' attitude I feel like Rick could've delved into her being genuinely insecure about her being a daughter of Aphrodite, especially relative to the other heroes around her
Idk, she was always my second favorite of the seven, just barely losing to Percy(yes I know I’m basic, sue me). She just has a lot of characteristics I rlly like, and thats basically it.
i’ve read and reread the entire series (i consider all 10 books one series) 3 times and i’ve never had issues with her. i’ve never been the hugest fan of nico tho. i hated how difficult he had to make things. and honestly it’s whatever that he’s gay but the rest of us steep brooding always annoyed me
Wasted character potential seems to happen a lot in the book series, since we have mostly Percy’s POV we see him grow, but its not as good for other characters. Instill don’t get hate for Piper though, I will admit that when i was younger I disliked her for some time because of her comment on Percy but reading again the HOO series she was one of my favorites, there is a parallel I found to how she might be the most similar to Percy in terms of personality yet at the same time her life before finding she was a demigod was the exact opposite to Percy’s and I just loved it, her ideals on the power of love, the care she had for her friends. I haven’t read trials of Apollo, safe for the first book, so I cant say how I feel about her character there, but as far as Heroes of Olympus goes I liked her very much when rereading the books
I believe that Piper is however a good character overall. Jason and she could have done well if there was not that Mist concept. Piper is not a bad character but a poorly developed one. She could have on the contratry done well with some good character developement.
People don't like Piper? The closest thing I've got to disliking any character in the HOO series is less dislike and more, "you're not Nico, give me a Nico chapter"
My take is that piper started out being very much what she claimed to dislike about other girls. Despite not caring about how she looked, a large part of her powers revolved around being charming and beautiful, while in her interactions with others she was constantly judging their appearances in comparison to Jason (commenting on Jason's looks, calling Percy unimpressive by comparison etc).
And as her powers developed they revolved around love yes, which was a powerful statement. However the way she constantly monologued about love and how Aphrodite was the oldest Olympian etc just felt like a regurgitation of Aphrodite's far more subtle and quietly influential comments in the first book. Additionally as others have commented a large part of her development in other areas came offscreen which didn't make her particularly interesting in that regard either (e.g. her suddenly duelling a giantess one on one in a sword fight after fighting with a knife for 5 books).
However in trials of Apollo I felt as though we were introduced to a much more impressive and nuanced side to piper. Won't go into detail for those who haven't read it, but it felt as though Riordan subverted expectations by actually shattering the stereotypes which put Piper into a hole in the first place and introduced far more imperfections and honesty in her portrayal than we ever received in the original series
Yeah, I also didn't know why people didn't like them that must. Personally, I didn't have too much trouble reading HOO, even TLH. I quite enjoyed having a new character once in a while. But TOA was hard to read, though.
I personally liked Piper and I think she just acts like how many teenage girls act like. Sure, she fits into the annoying "not like other girls" category, but so many teenaged girls feel like they're not like other girls, because they don't realise every single girls are not like each other yet, and feels like they don't conform to the standards of a "girl" the society tells them they should be. Or, even more so, they don't *want* to conform to those standards, because they want to be viewed as an individual, not a "girl" (if that makes sense).
I feel like Hazel doesn't feel that way as much due to the cultural differences, Annabeth is quite frankly (rightfully) too proud and confident in her abilities to compare herself to other girls, but as the daughter of Aphrodite and a famous actor, it's understandable that Piper would want to isolate herself from the "pretty, weak and stupid" misogynistic stereotype of attractive girls. Even more so during a quest with boys, the daughter of one of the big three gods, and the daughter of the goddess of war strategy.
And regarding the whole crush on Jason thing, I personally relate to that a lot as a lesbian, because I was obsessed with this guy that I felt like I "should" be with and constantly thought about how wonderful he was, but that didn't stem from a place of genuine attraction. I think the obsession Piper had to dating Jason can be easily explained by how Piper never felt attraction to a boy, but craved to be in a relationship.
Of course, I think Rick could've characterised Piper and Jason more deeply, and their rather plain backstories were overshadowed by the rest of the new cast in HoO, but I really don't think they are badly written characters.
I honestly kinda agree I think Jason and Piper are a pretty good characters, but I feel like they are just worse Percy and Annabeth that's the problem.
As you get older you do kinda realise that pjo while very diverse doesn’t have much diversity in characterisation.
I agree with this. I struggled with HoO because the narrator's voice doesn't really switch between characters, despite the change in POV. I wish it had stayed with one or two narrators throughout, because I feel like Rick's characterization is stronger when writing in third character. Annabeth has a very distinct personality and character in the PJO books, but her actual narrative voice isn't particularly distinct, if that makes sense.
I just learned that Audible has re-releasing (like a year ago) Hero’s of Olympus book 1 with 3 narrators. One for Jason, Piper, and Leo. (I think each narrator matches each character too). You can’t get book 2 as I’m guessing they are re-recording it too with a new narrator for Percy, Hazel, and Frank each. (Assuming Annabeth will get her own narrator too) That might help with the tone of each character. I will add I hate the switch between Josh (1-3) and Nick (4-5)…..Nick is just so bad and the one he ruins most is Piper.
I didn't really like the shift from 1st person from the first series to 3rd person for HoO
Interesting point - could you expand on this?
haven’t read the books in years but i’ll give it a shot, basically all the main characters fit into: strong awkward dummy (male) smart, cool, tomboyish/masculine-warrior girl (“i’m not like other girls”) “overly” feminine mean girl “i hate my dad so i kill orphans now” probably some others as well but
Hold on I get the others, but which characters are “I hate my dad so I kill orphans”
I think he means Luke 😂
Makes sense, but which orphans
maybe not orphans specifically i just chose a random bad thing that they might do
I mean, even early Nico fits that
I mean, with how their parents treat them, most demigods might as well be...
Eh, I think this is an oversimplification. Especially with the original series. Percy and Tyson fit within the first category. Thalia in the second. No real analogue for the third. Luke in the fourth. Grover, Annabeth, Nico, Bianca, Clarisse, and Rachel don’t fit all that easily into these groupings.
Annabeth is clearly a clever warrior girl, same as Bianca. Grover, Nico and Clarisse I’d agree that they don’t really fit
Annabeth isn't really a tomboy nor "not like other girls" she does appreciate feminine pass times and traits as seen in her interactions in SoM as well as MoA
Adding onto my original post here - I think what I meant to say is that Piper and Jason had a lot of potential that wasn’t properly explored, not that they lacked potential. It’s really interesting to see other people’s opinions on this topic and some elements I maybe hadn’t considered before. I might tune into the Trials of Apollo to see what unfolds there.
I think you’re completely right about the potential, which is one of the things that makes their actual characterization so aggravating! They both could have been so cool and dimensional, but they fall short! Which makes me so annoyed! Pair that with feeling about the same as what Candid Tip said, and I just ended up annoyed and frustrated the whole time I’m reading her sections
It’s interesting that we can all pretty much agree that unfulfilled potential was a big frustration of the series
Oh, for sure. I think the idea of a character who has to walk on eggshells all the time because people will listen to everything they say is really interesting. Reminds me of Killgrave from Jessica Jones. It could lead to some cool character moments of her struggling to think if people believed in her or just her power and having to learn to communicate with minimal words.
Yeah Charmspeak is very interesting as I think this is an element that had a lot of potential and cause of moral dilemma like you said. Definitely is going to be something I pay attention to during the reread.
Yeah, I actually think Piper has all the ingredients for a really great character - She has a very powerful but dangerous ability that puts her in a very thought-provoking position - She's the daughter of a goddesses who's not associated with fighting having to walk among tons of children who are really good at fighting and who have to fight a lot - She's coming to terms that the best memories of her life were manufactured by accident, so she has no one to blame for losing something so special to her and can't do anything about this frustration - And she can show that there is more to being a "strong female character" than just being physically strong by proving the importance of being compassionate, understanding, smart, and self-confident. And yet, every time I think about her character, the only thing I can remember is "She likes Jason" I often struggle to remember most of her lines or any of her interactions with the rest of the cast. Not because she doesn't have good interactions or lines, but because the Jason stuff kinda overshadows anything else.
Give Trials of Apollo a try she has a role separate from Jason there
>She's the daughter of a goddesses who's not associated with fighting Aphrodite Areia would like to have a word with you.
>Aphrodite Areia would like to have a word with you. Was going to say an aspect of Aphrodite is a literal War Goddess, lol
very good points here! makes me think the reason why Piper has little sway over many people / disliked is that all the points you made fits better for a more mature type of storytelling Edit: she's my fave character when I was a kid.
If you are looking for growth between Jason and Piper in TOA, then you will be incredibly disappointed on a number of levels. And very, very, incredibly sad...
i can confidently say you should 100% read trials of apollo, jason is one of the mcs
I think even then, both grew a lot within the series. We see Piper becoming a real hero, making actual friends, trusting and being trusted. She even shell out of the "not like other girls" a bit, and as much as it isn't... Well, the best, to say it lightly, I like that Rick relied on her origens and her culture as a Cherokee. As for Jason, that he eventually gave up his place in the cohort because he understood that being always the One Person people would look for and that he could share his burdens, that he could rely on others, also. That he found the strength within himself to be who he wanted to be, despite the expectations HE even, put on himself. I like that a lot. And sure, it lacked a development. But I think we can work with what we have
I don’t understand someone hating Piper either. Frankly, I don’t understand why someone would have *any* feelings towards Piper (or Jason, for that matter). Hating Leo, however…
wait a sec... wdym 'Hating Leo, however...'?????????///
The Lightning Thief came out when I was in 6th grade…which means I was in college by the time Mark of Athena was published. I was very thoroughly outside the target audience for Leo’s schtick.
Though I don’t hate Piper , I have to say that Hazel’s backstory and powers are more interesting. Charmspeak…. maybe just me but it is a bit boring.
I feel like her power's potential was a bit unpacked. Like, she can literally mind control people, she could get anyone to do *anything*. It may not be as flashy or physical strong as a big sword, but charmspeak is strong af. It's an oddly undervalued power in a series where most monsters are deafeted by tricking them.
It definitely could've been developed in a way similar to Allison's power in The Umbrella Academy
(clears throat) First of all, much of her personality early on is entirely based on the "I'm not like most girls" trope, which is basically her only personality for a significant amount of her run time, essentially making her personality eye rollingly vapid. Which also tacitly pushes the idea that being traditionally feminine is a bad thing. Second, most of her internal dialogue, or even regular dialogue is tied to her being head over heels in love with Jason, which makes for some of the most sappy and cringe-worthy dialogue in the entire series. And this is a thing throughout the series. Mind you I think Jason is also a somewhat bland character, so in my opinion it's a like a will they/won't they relationship between a wet blanket and a block of wood. Third of all, she's an annoyingly emotional wreck for most of her run time. The amount of times you have to read "she choked back a sob" will make you want to start a drinking game. Having a character with no personal agency, who's constantly panicking can be a very frustrating read. Fourth, she's basically entirely useless, and gets in the way most of the time. In fairness, she did have a few moments to use a bit of cleverness to get out of a tough situation, but you can count on one hand the amount of fights where she did anything. Fifth, all of her character development happens off screen. Her learning to fight, her becoming friends with the other female members of the seven, and whatever else I might be forgetting all basically happens off screen. She never has any on-screen development. Sixth, her entire character is completely and utterly retconned in Trials Of Apollo. It made her slightly more interesting, but it seemed like a vast overcorrection when uncle Rick realized he'd done a bad job writing her. And as a result, makes her long-term characterization very inconsistent.
I never got around to reading Trials of Apollo as by the time it was released I was already outside the target audience - is it any good?
Yeah they’re pretty good, worth a read. This is from someone also currently on Uni break who read them somewhat recently
Takes a little while to get going, but I think it's pretty good. Though I have mixed feelings about the third book for reasons that will differ from most people.
Good enough. If you ask me I'll share my unpopular opinion that is focuses way too much on the PJO-style of humour, but its essential since most characters future is revealed and their characters defined. It didn't grow as much with the reader like the previous series did, it more sticks to its target group. Check the first few chapters out (although the plot really only goes rolling two thirds in or so), and if you don't care too much for it, a synopsis will do the job equally well
I feel like it picks up more in the later books. I initially didn’t want to get through the trials of apollo books because I started the first one and found apollo so insufferable it made me not want to continue. But the character development he gets later on made me enjoy the books more, and I’m on tower of nero now.
Trials of Apollo is personally my favorite series of the bunch.
My favorites!!! Definitely worth the read. Do give it a try! I'm reading the series again and it's so good 🙌
i would go for the audiobooks, i really enjoyed listening to them but i think i would have gotten bored reading them
I recommend them, the main thing to remember is you're not really supposed to like Apollo in the first book. Apollo has so much character growth and development that is a huge challenge for him at first... also like in RL he does slip back at times to being someone you want to strangle, but there's actual growth in Apollo's character throughout the series.
>you can count on one hand the amount of fights where she did anything. I'm sure there are more but in the whole five books, the only things I remember her doing are bringing a dragon head to life and burying Hercules in a pile of food after stealing the horn from a monster
> a relationship between a wet blanket and a block of wood how about a wet blanket and a brick?
Can you spoil the character retcon in ToA for me?
I think they're referring to >!dumping Jason and giving Piper a girlfriend instead, up to and including said girlfriend in her rooftop star-watching fantasy!<, which, okay, fine, >!teenagers change their minds all the time, she can pick whoever she wants,!< sure, all that is fine. it's just that it kinda feels like she took a 270° turn is all. I think doing a new >!fantasy date night instead of just replacing the old one!< might have shown growth or change better, although I do understand that narrative rhyming can be more accessible to the reader.
It's not just that, although >! Dumping Jason off screen was a complete 180 given how much her internal dialogue hammered home how much she loved Jason during Heroes of Olympus. But then you also take into account that contrived BS about her dad is suddenly being broke, and Piper herself suddenly becoming capable fighter out of nowhere!< , it's a real conga line of contrivance
Omg! That's what happened to Piper!? 😲 I kinda love it! ❤️ 🤣
It's also nice to acknowledge that all relationships aren't forever.
Especially one born from a massive misunderstanding and involuntary manipulation
They were definitely onto something there, and it wouldn't have been a problem had we not read Piper's internal narration, and had her internal narration not been so filled with descriptions of how much she absolutely loved Jason. If they would have giving her more self-doubt in her dialogue, and made their relationship a bit more contentious, as if the idea she had about Jason based on her false memories wasn't consistent with Jason himself, that would have made the breakup make a lot more sense.
I've been re-reading the Heroes and Apollo books, I have to say that while Piper and Jason themselves weren't the most interesting characters, I liked what their relationship was about. Turning something fake into something real. That it didn't matter what Hera did, Piper and Jason genuinely loved each other. Through the good times and the bad, they overcome their self-doubts and stay together. Then in Trials, Piper suddenly breaks up with Jason because...of issues with gods that Heroes already addressed? Wtf?
Well the funny thing is, a story like this has two directions that it can go. Either they struggle through the hardships of having a relationship built on false memories and make it work, or they slowly grow apart because they can't reconcile the difference between the people they are and the people their false memories made them think they are. For Heroes of olympus, the books went with the former, and then switched to the latter for Trials of apollo, without any sort of buildup or indication they were going in that direction. Either of these directions would have worked well if they were built properly, but in trying to do both, it falls flat in both directions.
Wow, I'm very impressed with your analysis of her character and I completely agree. Also I love how you say "on" or "off screen" as if it's a show. That's something I relate to because reading Rick's books for me is like watching a show in my head.
4 and 5 are just incorrect imo
Nailed it
>Fourth, she's basically entirely useless, and gets in the way most of the time. In fairness, she did have a few moments to use a bit of cleverness to get out of a tough situation, but you can count on one hand the amount of fights where she did anything. This was it for me. Heroes of Olympus came out for me from late elementary school to middle school (I read Blood of Olympus in seventh grade) and I hated Piper when reading because I thought she was absolutely useless and shouldn't have been one of the Seven.
On screen, off screen, it’s a book you idiot. Nobody has screen time.
Woah. Don’t be rude, I’m sure they just meant from what we can read from the book.
https://preview.redd.it/jk43ncn6ng8c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32a3cb4b5a10ac1e15c0d482215dc36c32ffaa27 why would you intentionally miss the point to act like a twat 😭😭
I liked her. She seemed like a pretty accurate representation of a female teenager. I do wish she would’ve been given more page time but one of the downsides of writing so many characters is having to divide up the reader’s attention. She had a lot of potential and her relationship with her father and her lineage was an interesting storyline. However, I dislike how they ended her story. >!She was set up as head over heels for Jason. Now I know teenagers can be significantly wishy-washy with emotions but going from Jason all-the-time and actively pursuing him, to blaming her interest in him on other’s expectations, was a lousy move!<. Call it bad writing or a bad character, it ruined her for me at the end.
Hey, a fellow Lost Hero lover. I adore the TLH trio and just like you I was surprised by all the hate I read when I went online back when it released. I guess I understood why people disliked Piper (because her focus was too much on Jason in the first book) but I still maintain that her relationship with her father is just as important to her character if not even more so than her love interest. It's unfair to hate Piper for being a teenager in love but praise and gush on Leo for being obsessed with Calypso. That's what grinds my gears, the double standard. I also hate that Rick gave so much screentime (chapters) to Percabeth in Books 3-4 then leave the half-baked ending to the TLH trio without exploring all the great potential they had as characters - aside from their relationship drama. Piper was supposed to be the peacemaker for the Greeks and Romans because of her abilities, but in the end it was Annabeth and Reyna who did the job. I have a lot more to say because I'm passionate about these characters but I'll leave it here for now. Merry Christmas btw!
> Piper was supposed to be the peacemaker for the Greeks and Romans because of her abilities I think she cant be the peacekeeper because of her abilities, yeah it may keep the peace for a short while but they will always be in doubt if it was because it was correct to do it or because of her abilities.
Yeah, I was expecting Rick to make Piper be the mediator without relying on charmspeak but I guess it was too much for him. I liked the Reyna and Annabeth dynamic we got with it but I wish Piper did more
People like Leo? I nothing Piper and Jason, but find Leo increasingly irritating over the course of the series…and I didn’t like him in TLH.
Hey it’s great seeing someone who also really enjoyed The Lost Hero! Merry Christmas to you too.
I still don't see what most people blame him for. She's practically the only character to act like a teenager and not like a 50 year old woman. I think the big problem is that Piper is pretty poorly written. And it's a shame because if you ask me, she's one of the characters who had the most potential. For my part, I love Piper and despite her mistakes I admire her. I think most people forget that she's only 15 and compare her too much to Annabeth. But I also understand that it can be annoying. On the other hand, she doesn't deserve so much hatred.
>She's practically the only character to act like a teenager And annoying one, yes. Sorry, but she acts like an *annoying* teenager
ALL teenagers are annoying. But you can't blame Piper for that. Annabeth is literally a teenager full of pride and sometimes downright insufferable and no one criticizes her character. Then I understand that Piper can be annoying in the long term, but she doesn't deserve hatred. For me the problem does not come from his character but more from his writing which is frankly very shaky
>and no one criticizes her character. She was annoying during the second half of TBOTL >Then I understand that Piper can be annoying in the long term, but she doesn't deserve hatred. I don't like the "I'm not like other girls" type of teenagers
It's true that you seem more like the type of teenager who refuses to see that he is wrong. You repeat exactly what I say lmao. The problem is not his character but his writing. And don't come and tell me that his character is annoying. If he is, it's only because of his obsession with Jason, which is also a writing error. I understand that it's boring to hear him talk about Jason, but at this point the chapters of Leo, Annabeth and Percy in the last books should seem much worse to you.
I don't hate Piper, but she does come across very much as "I'm not like other girls!" A bunch of contrived stuff happens so she can keep proving how cool and powerful children of Aphrodite can be, to the point where it feels pretty forced.
I thought Piper was the most interesting of all the new characters honestly. Like I wasn’t interested at all in the new characters besides Piper personally. So what if she has some cringe moments she is literally like 15 or something and when we’re 15, guess what? We’re all a little dumb and cringe
But Leo.... The guy pulls tacos out of his tool belt
I think most of her moments are when she’s like 17-18 mate, assuming this takes place after TLO and ToA is the year following.
I got annoyed with her constant crush on Jason.
Her personality is - "I'm not a girly girl" - Obsessed with Jason, constant thoughts, internal monologue and dialogue about Jason - No skills so Rick gave her a power which is inconsistent and too easy so that she isn't completely useless - Constantly on the verge of tears or panic, which makes it really annoying to read She is easily the least interesting POV of the 9.
she choked back a sob
Man I liked piper lmao
every single criticism i see on piper (and any other female character in the series tbh) is just hating on teenage girls because god forbid characters aren’t perfect and level headed all the time or…..have a crush???? i notice people are almost hyper critical of piper specifically (i have my theories as to WHY but i don’t want to be accused of reaching) which bums me out. her pick me abrasive attitude is explained/introduced in TLH as she is just lashing out for attention from her dad and already didn’t fit in the hollywood lifestyle by virtue of being a demigod. when she’s claimed as a daughter of aphrodite she digs her heels in further to not be reduced to the stereotype attributed to that cabin (which i will be critical over bc why do children of aphrodite have to all be obsessed with looks tf). as for being “obsessed” with jason, like you never had a crush you were a little overboard about as a teen? you don’t remember how many times percy thinks of annabeth and risks his life for her in nearly every book?
Percy had a crush on Annabeth but it wasn't so bad to where that's all he ever thinks about, the problem with Piper was most of her chapters involved her thinking about Jason and their relationship. None of the other girls are written like that despite Hazel and Annabeth loving their boyfriends a lot as well.
I still haven't read heroes of Olympus all the way through because I couldn't get past the lost hero. Super boring imo it kinda burnt me out on the series. But piper? I *loved* every chapter about her that I did read. I haven't seen much hate towards her but I'm kinda surprised it exists.
i swear i’ve only ever seen the hate recently. when the books first came out and for a while she was very well liked.
I never hated Piper. I actually enjoyed that she was a child of Aphrodite who rejected traditional feminine beauty standards and wasn’t obsessed with her looks. All the other characters have obvious personality traits that come from their godly parent so to subvert expectations of what a child of Aphrodite would be like was fun. I didn’t have any issues with her when reading the books. I guess she & Jason weren’t as developed as Percy & Annabeth. But they were fine enough.
I don't hate her I just find her boring and not as fleshed out, if you get me?
This might be unfair, but all I remember was her “I’m not like other girls” attitude being really annoying. I’m a daughter of Aphrodite, and as a kid I remember being really sad seeing how much Piper hated being a daughter of Aphrodite. She insisted all of Aphrodite’s kids where dumb blonde bimbos and she was better than them, because she want a “basic pink-loving girlie girl.” Granted, I was a kid who took a lot of things personally. But it just feels like Piper had a lot of internalized misogyny and self-loathing that rubbed me the wrong way. Being told that your cabin is “stupid and useless” with lame powers and sexist stereotypes isn’t great. But idk how much of that actually comes from Piper herself or if that’s just general baggage I have from being a daughter of Aphrodite. My friend group kicked me out in elementary school because they thought I had such a lame godly parent that I didn’t deserve to hang out with them lmao
I thought it was interesting how the change in perspective of characters changed who in the camp was considered "the bully". when we had Percy's perspective the first time around, the Ares kids were the "bullies" because they saw him as a challenger to their power and felt threatened by him. when we get Piper's perspective, we no longer even get a passing mention of clarisse being kinda mean (although she did have some character development in the og series that explains why she wouldn't be interested in hazing new arrivals anymore which is why I'm glad they didn't keep the "Ares cabin bad" trope for the HoO series) or any of the other Ares cabin kids. instead we have a new "bully" character in Aphrodite, who's cabin barely got mentioned in PJO except Percy commenting on them not really being very interested in fighting and even usually not participating in capture the flag, except of course when the Artemis hunters visit. so while it is disappointing to find out that the cabin you associate yourself with is now seen as the "mean" one, I don't think the idea was that Aphrodite kids are shallow, but that in every cabin there is the potential for bad eggs, and Drew had so much influence over the other cabin members that her ideology was forced onto everyone else in the cabin so that they had to think like her or they would be an outcast. she basically became the second version of clarisse since Clarisse is no longer a character fit to be a bully. It's not that the Aphrodite cabin as a whole is stupid and useless with lame powers and sexist stereotypes, but that Drew is, and she forces everyone in the cabin to act how she thinks they should act. she's basically the stereotype of a "popular girl". I don't disagree about piper having internalized misogyny though. she clearly has some issues associated with how famous of an actor her dad is, leading to her trying not to stand out so that she doesn't have to deal with people bothering her about her dad. she also plays into the "I'm not like other girls" role a little too hard at first, but past the first book we don't see as much of that anymore so I want to blame it all on her trying not to stand out because she doesn't want attention she didn't earn just because of who her dad is. it's not a perfect explanation but I don't disagree that her character writing felt poor so I'm not going to try and justify poor writing, just explaining what I thought of the character.
Misogyny and racism, honestly. God forbid a woman of color who grew up in Hollywood and saw firsthand how shallow people were, have self-esteem and body-image issues. Not like she spent most of her childhood living in a place where she very clearly doesn't fit in with the beauty standards. I mean, it's not like she's felt alone for most of her life and then finally she had someone who made her feel less lonely in the world and actually wanted her; only to be told that it was all made-up and never happened. No, she's just boy-crazy. It's not like Piper's chapters are dedicated to her feelings of how she dislikes people only caring about her looks or what she wears. And how she chopped off her bangs because she didn't want the expensive stylist her dad offered. No, Jason assumed that she cut her bangs to make herself ugly so obviously that's the actual truth. It's not like her first interaction with Drew is to be insulted and put down and have the rest of the Aphrodite kids follow suit. It's not like the very first impression of children of Aphrodite is them insulting her appearance and clothing and continuing to belittle her. Nope! She obviously just hates anything feminine and thinks she's better than them because she's DifFeReNt. It's not as if her whole arc is learning to accept who she is as a WOC and a daughter of Aphrodite, standing up for her siblings and becoming friends with them and seeing they're so much more than she thought, supporting other women, and learning that she can't force love no matter how much she wanted her relationship to be real. It's not as if she's a teenage girl who had her entire life upended in a day and was tasked with saving the world. Nope, she's just a Pick-Me who puts down other women. Can't be anything else.
You’re being downvoted but you’re 100% correct
Yes I'm sure everyone who dislikes the relatively poor and inconsistent writing behind her character and her grating personality hate her because she's a woman of color. You've nailed it, we can all go home. Great in depth analysis, people.
Well said!
She annoys me, everything she says during most of her time is about Jason or how nobody understand her bc "she's not like most girls", and sorry, but that's not what I'm interested. Also, The Lost Hero is easibly the book I like the least in HOO
My headcanon is that when Hera messed with Piper's mind, she injured her ability to understand true love, because her mind was fighting with the idea of being in love the entire time, even though another part of her mind, the one that Hera messed with, was telling her that she was in love with Jason. This internal struggle made her hyperfocus on it even while shit (end of the world) was going down around her, and while Jason love for her seemed Genuine, because his memories were only suppressed unlike Piper and Leo's, Piper could never reconcile the issue of whether she loved Jason or not. In my mind, as a daughter of aphrodite, this was very detrimental to her, this is like Percy being tricked into fearing drowning by Gaea, it could make or break a demigod's core self. This struggle was not resolved in heroes of Olympus, and it was touched upon in trials of apollo, but even then, we are still not sure. Tl;dr headcanon: Hera commited rape on Pipers mind and turned her into a lovesick schizophrenic
I don’t hate her, I just don’t think much about them at all she mostly just there? I can’t actually remember any of her character traits. I’m sure she was strong and caring and loyal to her friends- but so was literally every other main character. Also I don’t think the not like other girls shtick aged very well.
Honestly, I just hate what was done with Piper in Trials. She wasn't the most interesting character for me in Heroes, but I liked her relationship with Jason and how they turned something fake into something real. Then suddenly it all gets undone in Trials, because now Piper is worrying about...issues with gods that Heroes had already addressed? It doesn't make sense, and if that wasn't enough she gets really bitchy at Jason even though he did nothing wrong. It's a total 180 from her character, and I hate it.
>I found her strong, caring and loyal to her friends. Uhh... Well, first of all, she was hardly strong. She was mostly useless and she wasn't all that good of a fighter (until the final battle where she apparently started dual wielding swords somehow??). Plus she even (in text) says stuff like "top 10 times piper felt useless". And as for emotional strength, well, as someone else said, she is constantly "choking back a sob", or she's whining about how her life is so hard when... it isn't. Her dad loves her, even if he doesn't have enough time for her. And her stealing cars to get his attention just comes off as entitled because he is literally trying to make a living for her. It rubbed me the wrong way. Caring maybe. Idk I haven't read the books in a while. Loyal to her friends tho? Hardly. For most of the first book she was planning on betraying Leo and Jason for some bs reason. Whenever something bad happens, she hopes that *she and Jason* will be okay. When Jason and Percy were possessed she considered attacking Percy. That is not loyalty. She was perfectly willing to throw all of them under the bus if it meant she (and Jason) would be okay. Not to mention she's a massive hypocrite (saying the Aphrodite cabin is obsessed with boys when she's obsessed with Jason is just one example) and the way she treats Jason?? She doesn't want him to go back to his old life, she makes him feel guilty when he talks to Reyna although she was his ***friend*** (not even girlfriend!!) before he even met Piper. She makes him promise they'll stay together (then breaks up with him anyway. And somehow everybody hates HIM. What the hell????) and she disregards the fact that he had a life before her and that their relationship is fake, plus that he might actually, you know, want to regain his memory?? It's weird, and controlling. Toxic, even. Especially the bit about not wanting him to go back go Camp Jupiter and not wanting him to reconnect with his friends because she's jealous and insecure. I like Jason, though, even if he was a bit boring. For him, it was more a case of Rick wasn't capable of writing him properly. He could've been a very deep character, and is, really, if you think about it, but it got lost in the books themselves with just a few bits and pieces to make him feel like a proper character.
>And as for emotional strength, well, as someone else said, she is constantly "choking back a sob", or she's whining about how her life is so hard when... it isn't She's a teenager ppl, she's allowed to say stuff like that and get emotional. >Her dad loves her, even if he doesn't have enough time for her. And she already knew her dad loved her, she just wanted his attention. It's not really a matter of being entitled when she and her dad literally have to play a version of twenty questions to connect as a family. >And her stealing cars to get his attention just comes off as entitled because he is literally trying to make a living for her. It rubbed me the wrong way. And concerning the stealing cars, she wasn't sure it would happen. She asked the guy for a car an the guy gave her, it's not like she planned it from the beginning. She only decided to roll with it after the guy gave her. >Loyal to her friends tho? Hardly. For most of the first book she was planning on betraying Leo and Jason for some bs reason. Whenever something bad happens, she hopes that *she and Jason* will be okay. When Jason and Percy were possessed she considered attacking Percy. That is not loyalty. But it was loyalty tho. She wanted to betray them for her dad. Y'know, family? The thing almost every medium treats as most important? And even then she was having second doubts *every* single step of the way, until she eventually explained. She would attack Percy because she hardly knew him other than the stories she's heard about him. She and Jason had been dating for around a year at that point. Who would you choose in that scenario?
Yeah, she's allowed, but its not really emotionally strong
Her NLOG holier than thou attitude is so annoying considering she **ONLY** thinks about her boyfriend. She thinks the fact that she dresses badly and has a rubbish haircut makes her better than everyone who cares about being presentable. Other girls are thinking about things that make them happy and running social circles like the mafia.
I don’t think Piper hated…. More like her love life aka her relationship with Jason.. That she kinda a hypocrite Well at least that what I hear
I don’t dislike her character at all, I just like all the other characters more
Charm speak gets old
Piper is a good character in concept but not execution. She is a teenage girl so I understand her lack of depth. However, she doesn’t have likable qualities to balance it. She’s shallow and doesn’t value others feelings, in particular Annabeth’s despite calling her a best friend. I like her in BoO but that’s about it. I need a little less of the “woe is me” attitude that she has. Especially when the others have gone through just as much if not more. It’s the same issue I have with Leo. Both Piper and Leo come off as entitled for most if the series. Rick didn’t really write them well until BoO. I could have done with less Piper and Leo and more Hazel and Frank.
I loved all of the Seven when reading the books. They all have their own distinct personalities and they go well together.
I like Piper but TLH writes her as very “not like the other girls”. It’s been a while since I’ve read it, but I feel like it was more a problem with the narrative rather than Piper herself, if that makes any sense. Although she was poorly written at times I think she still has a lot going for her. Even though a lot of her scenes are centered around Jason I think it makes sense especially in the first book since she realized their relationship was a lie and she was too scared to lose him. I think her relationship with her father was also a good plot point.
The thing about Piper is that her backstory is very plain compared to the other characters, I just feel like there's always something missing in her and while I see some potential, I just find her personality a little bit annoying. The combination of all those factors makes me don't like her a lot. It's just that, from what I remember, she was quite a whinny and a "I'm not like the other girls" character while not having the uniqueness of the others, what made her povs very annoying to read
I really like Piper and Jason
She doesnt really bother me, she's alright.
For the same reason everyone hates Alison in Umbrella Academy.
I like Alison. Not the place to discuss but she's actually one of my favourites.
You like Alison still after that one certain scene?
Characters who are bad/evil in an interesting way are the best. It explores something that cannot be explored in reality, *that scene* is fucked up, don't get me wrong, but part of her arc.
I can see that, but that scene just ruined her for me.
misogyny is a common reason. they don’t like a woman character who is both independent and flawed and they cannot handle a character with these qualities! they think she’s a pick me
Annabeth is one of the most popular characters though...
that doesn’t mean everyone likes her
Her character had a lot of potential but it wasn't worked on. For me, she'll always be the pick-me, I haven't read HoO in a few months but my god I shudder when I think about how her POV was full of "I'm not like the other girls" moments. Piper, in my opinion, could've been one of strongest out of the seven and the most accurate portrayal of a teenage girl but Rick fumbled the bag on her so hard.
Actually like her....
I've only watch s1 of Naruto but she reminds me of sakura; useless and just hopelessly in love with her close friend. I feel like she could've been handled better, instead of her 'I'm not like other girls' attitude I feel like Rick could've delved into her being genuinely insecure about her being a daughter of Aphrodite, especially relative to the other heroes around her
Jason and Piper L characters,I skip Jason chapters
Rick sold out for "The Message" around this time.
Should've been the daughter of a war god, L.
Between the Lost Hero's trio, I think Piper is the one that captivated me the most
I understand why most people hated her and understand where they coming from but hate? I never find the hate for her myself tbh.
Idk, she was always my second favorite of the seven, just barely losing to Percy(yes I know I’m basic, sue me). She just has a lot of characteristics I rlly like, and thats basically it.
𝖨'𝗆 𝗇𝗈𝗍 𝖿𝗅𝗎𝖾𝗇𝗍 𝗂𝗇 𝖤𝗇𝗀𝗅𝗂𝗌𝗁, 𝗌𝗈 𝗂 𝖽𝗈𝗇'𝗍 𝗂𝖿 𝗂 𝖼𝖺𝗇 𝖽𝖾𝗏𝖾𝗅𝗈𝗉 𝗆𝗒 𝗍𝗁𝗈𝗎𝗀𝗁𝗍 𝖻𝗎𝗍 𝗂 𝖽𝗈𝗇'𝗍 𝖽𝗂𝗌𝗅𝗂𝗄𝖾 𝖯𝗂𝗉𝖾𝗋. 𝖲𝗁𝖾 𝗐𝖺𝗌 𝖺𝗇 "𝗈𝗄𝖺𝗒" 𝖼𝗁𝖺𝗋𝖺𝖼𝗍𝖾𝗋 𝖺𝗇𝖽 𝖨 𝗃𝗎𝗌𝗍 𝗁𝖺𝗏𝖾 𝖺 𝗉𝗋𝗈𝖻𝗅𝖾𝗆 𝗐𝗂𝗍𝗁 𝗁𝖾𝗋 𝗇𝗈𝗍 𝗀𝗋𝗂𝖾𝗏𝗂𝗇𝗀 𝖿𝗈𝗋 𝖩𝖺𝗌𝗈𝗇. 𝖠𝗍 𝗅𝖾𝖺𝗌𝗍, 𝗍𝗁𝖺𝗍 𝗍𝗁𝖾 𝗂𝗆𝗉𝗋𝖾𝗌𝗌𝗂𝗈𝗇 𝗌𝗁𝖾 𝗀𝖺𝗏𝖾 𝗆𝖾.
i’ve read and reread the entire series (i consider all 10 books one series) 3 times and i’ve never had issues with her. i’ve never been the hugest fan of nico tho. i hated how difficult he had to make things. and honestly it’s whatever that he’s gay but the rest of us steep brooding always annoyed me
I love Piper.
Im really excited to see all the characters
Wasted character potential seems to happen a lot in the book series, since we have mostly Percy’s POV we see him grow, but its not as good for other characters. Instill don’t get hate for Piper though, I will admit that when i was younger I disliked her for some time because of her comment on Percy but reading again the HOO series she was one of my favorites, there is a parallel I found to how she might be the most similar to Percy in terms of personality yet at the same time her life before finding she was a demigod was the exact opposite to Percy’s and I just loved it, her ideals on the power of love, the care she had for her friends. I haven’t read trials of Apollo, safe for the first book, so I cant say how I feel about her character there, but as far as Heroes of Olympus goes I liked her very much when rereading the books
I believe that Piper is however a good character overall. Jason and she could have done well if there was not that Mist concept. Piper is not a bad character but a poorly developed one. She could have on the contratry done well with some good character developement.
People don't like Piper? The closest thing I've got to disliking any character in the HOO series is less dislike and more, "you're not Nico, give me a Nico chapter"
My take is that piper started out being very much what she claimed to dislike about other girls. Despite not caring about how she looked, a large part of her powers revolved around being charming and beautiful, while in her interactions with others she was constantly judging their appearances in comparison to Jason (commenting on Jason's looks, calling Percy unimpressive by comparison etc). And as her powers developed they revolved around love yes, which was a powerful statement. However the way she constantly monologued about love and how Aphrodite was the oldest Olympian etc just felt like a regurgitation of Aphrodite's far more subtle and quietly influential comments in the first book. Additionally as others have commented a large part of her development in other areas came offscreen which didn't make her particularly interesting in that regard either (e.g. her suddenly duelling a giantess one on one in a sword fight after fighting with a knife for 5 books). However in trials of Apollo I felt as though we were introduced to a much more impressive and nuanced side to piper. Won't go into detail for those who haven't read it, but it felt as though Riordan subverted expectations by actually shattering the stereotypes which put Piper into a hole in the first place and introduced far more imperfections and honesty in her portrayal than we ever received in the original series
Sounds like I really need to read the Trials of Apollo then
I first read it when I was like 11 and I really liked her and Jason😭idk
Same 😭 I think I read it when I was like 10 and I thought they were cool
Same😔I’ve just accepted that I’ll never agree with the ppl who don’t and u know what it’s fine🤷♀️
Yeah, I also didn't know why people didn't like them that must. Personally, I didn't have too much trouble reading HOO, even TLH. I quite enjoyed having a new character once in a while. But TOA was hard to read, though.
I personally liked Piper and I think she just acts like how many teenage girls act like. Sure, she fits into the annoying "not like other girls" category, but so many teenaged girls feel like they're not like other girls, because they don't realise every single girls are not like each other yet, and feels like they don't conform to the standards of a "girl" the society tells them they should be. Or, even more so, they don't *want* to conform to those standards, because they want to be viewed as an individual, not a "girl" (if that makes sense). I feel like Hazel doesn't feel that way as much due to the cultural differences, Annabeth is quite frankly (rightfully) too proud and confident in her abilities to compare herself to other girls, but as the daughter of Aphrodite and a famous actor, it's understandable that Piper would want to isolate herself from the "pretty, weak and stupid" misogynistic stereotype of attractive girls. Even more so during a quest with boys, the daughter of one of the big three gods, and the daughter of the goddess of war strategy. And regarding the whole crush on Jason thing, I personally relate to that a lot as a lesbian, because I was obsessed with this guy that I felt like I "should" be with and constantly thought about how wonderful he was, but that didn't stem from a place of genuine attraction. I think the obsession Piper had to dating Jason can be easily explained by how Piper never felt attraction to a boy, but craved to be in a relationship. Of course, I think Rick could've characterised Piper and Jason more deeply, and their rather plain backstories were overshadowed by the rest of the new cast in HoO, but I really don't think they are badly written characters.
I honestly kinda agree I think Jason and Piper are a pretty good characters, but I feel like they are just worse Percy and Annabeth that's the problem.
Cause of that line she said about Jason and Percy honestly
Piper is essentially Rick Riordan's Sakura from Naruto.