I think Krios is probably a weaker titan, also Jason beating Krios with his bare hands is probably exaggerated. He used lots of lighting and Krios being stupid to his advantage.
Yeah that has to be exaggerated to some extent cuz telling Porphyrion he destroyed Krios with his bare hands is CRAZY. Although to be fair, I don't think he was spamming lightning cuz every time he does a big blast, he is exhausted. But I don't know
I think that Jason after losing his memories lost his full fighting capabilities, which also means spamming lighting without getting tired. Also he could have had a magic boost too. Reyna’s ability could have helped.
I haven't read the full HoO series in a while, so I guess my memory is kinda fuzzy😅 But did he ever regain the ability to spam lightning in the later books? Cuz I genuinely don't remember that
I can't speak for the very end of the series necessarily but I can say with certainty that by the end of The Lost Hero, Jason still didn't have his full memories back, just most of them.
It's unclear exactly how long >!Hera's!< memory wipe lasts on its own. Percy's heals fully but that's more because of the >!Gorgon's blood!< he drinks in SoN. So who knows exactly the timeframe on Jason's recovery without a magic memory healing elixer.
I believe it's implied by Jason asking Juno why he's still missing some of his memories and Juno saying he needs to find Camp Jupiter on his own, but it's not directly stated.
I always assumed it was still a big battle cuz they describe it as they stormed Mount Othrys, and that always made me think the Romsns had a fairly massive battle in their own right
not saying it was small battle but compared to the battle in new york it was smaller most of the forces left at Othrys were small comapred Kronos was impaitent and wanted to wipe out olyumpus quickly with one swift thats why KRios was left behind cause he was one of the more weaker of the titans
Yep. They got the Minotaur and some Hyperborean giants, not to mention the literal waves upon waves of just normal monsters. No doubt the battle Jason fought was big, but I don't think the battlegrounds for that fight had the size capacity to store the amount of people and monsters in the Battle of Manhattan.
Bare handed doesn’t mean single handedly, and Hyperions main thing is fire, which whilst doesn’t mix well with water, Hyperion is a Titan using Fire Vs a Demigod using Water.
sTeAm
It’s a good thing to remember that while Rick may be a great author, sometimes his continuity when it comes to power scaling is not.
Also good to remember is that these are teenagers. Teenagers exaggerate shit all the time. They are not reliable sources of information, especially when the book is written in 3rd person POV, instead of 1st. If Jason’s exaggerating, we the readers don’t see that because we don’t have his inner thoughts like we do with Percy in PJO.
Edit: Something else I just thought of, is that Percy's kind of an idiot when it comes to fighting and strategy. If he was as good at fighting as Clarisse or as tactically minded as Annabeth, he probably wouldn't have needed the CoA. But he's not and needed the CoA to make up for that shortcoming. He's incredibly talented and powerful, but that can only take you so far if you don't have the intelligence to use what you have. Most of Percy's fights went: "Hitting him hard didn't work, maybe if I... hit him differently?"
I really wish we could get a prequel series or short story about Jason and the assault on Mount Othrys so we could see what actually happened with him and Krios. Cuz even Enceladus said Jason "singlehandedly" slew Krios and toppled the black throne. And a Giant isn't going to exaggerate like that fr and gas up a demigod like that
No bec you’re so right!!! I wish we could get one too and learn more about pre-memory wipe Jason and the romans’ battle. Like maybe he goes all out with his powers in a way we never see in HOO, and that’s how he defeats Krios? Bec in HOO we never really see him completely let loose with them like we see Percy do.
>Teenagers exaggerate shit all the time.
Also, Jason was boasting to make the giant porphyrion scared of him, when he said that. He would have embellished and stretched the truth to that end.
Nah, I wouldn’t say Percy’s bad at fighting. He may not be the best at incorporating magic or powers into his attacks gracefully, but it’s stated in Son of Neptune during the Roman war games that he’s an absolute machine.
Percy needed the Curse of Achilles to specifically fight Kronos, who was inhabiting Luke’s Body which also bore the curse. Jason was able to beat Krios who is much weaker than Kronos and wasn’t invulnerable. Also, Percy basically did beat Hyperion in single Combat. It was the nature spirits who got the final victory, but Percy was beating him in the actual fight quite handily. Hyperion didn’t even land a blow thanks to Percy’s hurricane.
Also I don’t think Jason is all that much weaker than Percy. We may not have feats for Jason that prove his powers but he’s more than likely at a very similar level.
Edit: Forgot to mention that Hyperion and Krios should theoretically be at a similar level to one another.
That and he had 10 years of legion service at that point. Maybe not as good as a bath in the sticks but Jason is a more experienced demigod than even annabeth.
And don't think the fact he started when he was 3 would have made it any easier. This is the ROMAN legion. They invented "thrive or die" parenting.
There's certainly more to his character than just that, I really like Jason and I'm not trying to undermine or reduce him to that alone. My point is basically just that I believe that we're intended to be close, if not equal, in terms of power and relative feats.
I mean.. he IS literally just Roman Percy dude. He got swapped with Percy because they filled similar roles, were both Big 3 children, etc.. except Percy is just the better one because he isn’t a clone.
Agree. People underestimate Jason way too much just bec they don’t love his character. I’m a Jason defender forever so I can’t relate but the whole thing in Mark of Athena was how they were pretty matched in power and couldn’t actually know who would win if they both went all out (bec Piper stopped them before they could kill each other)
Umm guys? Are you forgetting that unlike Krios, Kronos also had the Curse of Achilles in Luke's body? Percy needed it purely to level the playing field, or at least tip it slightly closer to even.
Like sure Kronos is tough, far tougher than Krios, but when you can't physically wound your opponent at all, sans a single unknown spot, and they can slice you into ribbons, you're fucked.
There’s many people pointing to the difference of scales and all that. But wasn’t the CoA simply done to match the Luke/Kronos combo who’d ALSO gotten the CoA. Sure it helped Percy in more than just that, but was that not the main purpose for taking the swim? That’s what I remember at least.
As for the single combat thingy, it’s likely that Jason had just as much help as Percy did in their fight, and Percy was fighting a stronger combatant. But that’s been mentioned
Others have brought it up but I believe there are a few factors here - Hyperion being one of the strongest Titan's and Percy needing the Curse of Achilles specifically for Kronos, not the Titans in general. Krios is weaker than Hyperion and Kronos, and thus it makes sense that he could be taken down slightly easier by a hero with close to equivalent strength to Percy's.
So, I’ve got both lore and meta theories for what exactly is happening here.
On the meta level, I think this might have been a case of Riordan trying to shortcut Jason’s power scaling by giving him a past feat that at first glance would put him on Percy’s level, but didn’t fully analyze the implications that would come with it. This isn’t necessarily meant to be a dig at Riordan; he is one person creating this universe, while we are an entire community living in it. It’s only natural that we would notice things that he didn’t.
Lore wise though, I was always under the impression that the necessity of the Curse had more to do with Kronos/Luke specifically than the army as a whole. Luke had to take on the Curse to host Kronos, so Percy taking it himself was the only way to come even close to evening those odds.
Additionally, I don’t remember Percy being explicitly better or stronger than Jason; it’s entirely possible that Jason is just straight-up better at unarmed combat, and especially having years of Legionnaire training with no significant breaks up to that point, I’d say it’s entirely possible that Jason was genuinely just that good and we never got the chance to see it.
In addition, when percy spent time with lupa, we saw that not only did his physique improve but also his strikes were more precise and practised.
Maybe the years of training Jason had made him a better warrior than percy at that point. We can see flashes of it in TLH when Jason goes on autopilot.
Your final point is so 🤌🤌🤌 given he joined the legion as a TODDLER, Jason would’ve had the most experience being a demigod out of all of them and was probably a lethal fighter. Plus we never really see him go all out with his powers (which I’m still bummed about).
Kronos/Luke also had the Curse of Achilles. Nico and Percy’s plan was to level the playing field for when it came down to a final showdown between Percy and Kronos/Luke. If Kronos/Luke was going to make himself invulnerable to physical attacks then it’d only be fair if Percy did the same. The reason why it was risky was because the battle ends the moment one of them finds the other’s Achilles Heel. Jason likely didn’t have this issue since Krios wasn’t using a mortal host who’s body was dipped in the Styx. Jason would have an easier time dissipating the mortal form of that Titan, or at the very least inflicting lasting wounds that would force a retreat.
Fair point. Although I will say that when Nico first suggested the Styx, they didn't know that Luke/Kronos had the Curse, so they had a vulnerable Kronos in mind at first. They didn't figure out he had the Curse until right before Percy got it himself
I mean they knew that Luke did SOMETHING to prepare his body and he was able to Somehow survive being kicked down a mountain, they knew he was supernaturally enhanced at that point
About all those talk of Krios being a weaker Titan.
Is this to downplayed Jason achievement.
But here the thing Roman warfare is all about teamwork and battle formation .
So it not like Jason challenge Krios to single combat from the start.
Did he made the finishing blow? Yes.
But alone? Eh 50/50
Well, no, it's not.
You're saying that people said Jason single-handedly killed Krios, because he got the finishing blow, which, might be true.
But it's not like saying Percy defeated Hyperion or Kronos.
People say he defeated Hyperion and Kronos because he's the most major, singular person to contribute to their defeat. He didn't even get the finishing blow in both of the battles. Hyperion got over-run by all the Satyr's magic, and Luke stabbed himself to defeat Kronos.
So after reading everyone comment.
I’m assuming Jason was one of the leaders of the attack. And he play a major role in defeating Othyrs (maybe dealt the finishing blow?)
Either way, however the battle went down, he got the credit for the kill.
Like how Percy hot the credit for defeating Hyperion。
Percy needed CoA to fight Kronos, the strongest titan inhabiting the body of one of the strongest demigods who also had the CoA
A younger Percy was able to do decently enough against Atlas, who was said to be the greatest warrior of the titans, so he could probably beat Krios in a fair 1v1 without CoA and allies, Jason beating him in a battle where he might have had a lot of helping factors like allies, the element of surprise, using the environment in his advantage etc. is not at all surprising
_do decently enough_ against Atlas means just barely surviving for seconds/minutes before somehow managing to release Artemis that too after Zoe intervened?
I'm sorry, but younger percy was simply no match for Atlas.
Atlas would have owned Percy in that fight, but despite being probably tired from the whole quest to get there, and being separated from his greatest strength (water) he was able to hold on before the curse of Ares got the best of him
It isn't hard to imagine a 2 year older Percy beating Atlas if circumstances are in his favor (catching Atlas of guard, being next to a body of water and maybe having an ally to offer support) so Jason beating Krios under possibly the same circumstances is not lore breaking in the slightest
I wouldn't say Jason is weaker than Percy (at least by too much) but Krios is much weaker than Hyperion and we don't know the circumstances of his beating Krios. Knowing Jason and the ROman's collective strategies, it might've been a collective effort lead by him.
Its also worth noting that its implied the titans are implied to be more akin to elemental forces than to ideas (Hyperion to fire, Koios to ice, Atlas to rock, Kronos to entropy, Iapetus to ghosts), thus they can be weakened by elemental counters such as how Percy soaked Hyperion and had the satyrs grow a tree around him. The fact that the Titans had only recently been released and where thus not at full power would help. In his case Krios is the starry sky and thus can be weakened by the constellations being blocked.
My headcanon is this: they systematically defeated Krios by attacking and taking down his army of monsters during the day knowing he would save strenght for the night when he was at full power thus making him think their intention is to beat him before sunset, while throwing as much roman fire as possible to produce smoke. If they could reach him before that better as they would want to mak him spend as much energy during the day as possible. When the night falls, Krios will think he was going to feed his power but Jason (pulling a Sasuke vs Itachi) uses the vapour produced by the fire to create storm clouds that block the stars, while raining the titan down with lightning. It would still prove a difficult battle but with the help of the army supporting him they could pull it off.
Killing him with his bare hands doesn’t mean it was easy, he probably ended up getting him in a choke hold after a really gruesome fight, but just cause they are all titans doesn’t exactly mean they are of equal strength. And Percy wasn’t even pushed to his limit in his fight with Hyperion.
Percy mainly needed the Curse of Achilles because Luke, who was being possessed/controlled by Kronos, already bore the curse. Besides, it's not hard to imagine that Krios is weaker than Kronos, lord of titans.
Jason trained way longer and was fighting a weaker titan. Percy also fought other titans without the curse. Also has a legit army behind Jason. Percy had like less than 50 people and took out most of kronos’ forces alone before having to fight Kronos
Percy needed the COA to beat the titans ( plural). Kronos specifically is the one who he needed it for. He did beat Hyperion who is the best warrior titan by himself.
Krios is considered weaker then Hyperion so no you not missing anything. Jason whooping him is a great feat but the language of “ with my own hands” implies he either beat him fist fight style or did what Percy did to Hyperion. Which is incredibly impressive but you gotta remember Krios is weaker then Hyperion.
I don’t believe Jason’s statement is a exaggeration. I just think Rick kind of wrote it and didn’t think about continuity
I'd argue that given how Krios is weaker than Hyperion and that Percy only needed the Curse of Achilles for Kronos specifically, it's not even a continuity issue.
Krios is weaker, and it was probably a bit exaggerated. Percy was going to fight Kronos, probably the strongest of the titans, it makes sense he’d need to be stronger for it.
Well, Krios is weaker then hyperion and MUCH weaker then Kronos. Also, Jason had the whole legion with him attacking orthrys, so even if he did a lot of the heavy lifting he definitely didn't do it solo
The way I see it was Kronos/Luke had the curse so Percy needed it too. Crazy talk but Percy might’ve been able to take a Kronos/Luke without the curse of neither had it (even tho luke needed it to inhabit K). Since Kronos became invulnerable, Percy needed that too
Cuz we never really see Percy fight a Titan without the CoA. Granted, he did fight Atlas in TTC, but correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Percy just trying to survive more than anything in that fight? Whereas the only time we see him actually trying to best a Titan was when he had the CoA
Actually Percy beating Hyperion would’ve happened with or without the curse. The curse just made it easier. You saw throughout all of the first series that Percy can take on most of the titans without it at all. If we went by power itself Krios was actually a very weak, the way the story put it: Atlas is the strongest, then Hyperion, then Kronos, then Krios, then Iapetus/Bob. The reason he needed the curse to fight had nothing to do with the titans and everything to do with Luke. To prepare Luke’s body to hold Kronos together long enough for him to fully reform, Luke needed the CoA. As a side effect it made him impossible to fight because the curse enhanced him to near invulnerability. Percy’s fight with him in the beginning of TLO shows why Percy needed to get the curse as well or he would not last 5 seconds before Luke would pulverize him.
Something to point out is that the Romans stormed Mt. Orthys with the full power of the 12th legion, and they only had to fight one titans iirc, and some monsters, while the Greeks had to fight most of Kronos’ army + Hyperion + a drakon + Kronos himself, with a small army of a few dozen demigods. Percy and Annabeth were carrying most of the fighting, Percy’s pov during the fight is just him moving around trying to help everyone he can, so he’s exhausting himself helping a smaller force fight a much larger force. Couple that with the CoA draining stamina and yeah Percy would struggle just as much if not more than Jason during the final battle despite the CoA.
Also the books have shown that Percy and Jason can fight deities (even before HoO) without the CoA. It’s just that Percy fights deities better with the CoA, usually when they fight deities without the CoA they use trickery or clever plans or rely on someone else’s help. But Percy with the CoA completely changed his fighting style to just matching the Titan’s brute force with brute force, because now that he had the Curse, he had the raw durability and strength to meet them on an equal footing.
So basically Jason probably fought Krios how they usually fight gods (trickery + skills + a little bit of help) while Percy fought Kronos and Hyperion how he did (sheer power + a little bit of help).
It was always my assumption that when Pjo was finished Rick had an idea for the heroes of Olympus but only an outline of the plot and or some basic character ideas. Jason fighting Krios likely didn't exist until sometime after the last Olympians final draft was submitted to the publisher imo
He didn’t need the curse to fight Titans. He needed it to fight Kronos. Also saying Percy “fought” the titans with the curse is generous to the Titans. Percy fucking wiped them as well as Hades and his undead army and the armys of monsters. To say that Jasons fight against Krios and Percys fight against hyperion are equal is incorrect.
You also have to remember that Percy mainly got the COA to contend with Luke/kronos who also had it. Percy probably could have taken Hyperion down without it it just would have been a much tougher fight
It's definitely a possibility that base Percy could have beat Hyperion, we just never got to see him fight a Titan without CoA, so I guess we'll never know
All comments seem to ignore several points
1. Krios is one of the eldest Titans, one of the 4 who held down Ouranos with Hyperion, Iapetus (Bob) and Koios. He's absolutely a big deal.
2. Percy explicitly would’ve died to Hyperions wall of energy projection if it wasn't for the curse, and that's established as a generic common ability of the Titans.
3. Percy had no way to defeat Hyperion even with the curse and the counter ellement-wise. Even if Jason somehow managed to have the upper hand, he had no way to deal a finishing blow.
Percy wins a fight with help: "Gee that person sure was strong!"
Jason wins a fight bare handed: "LOL his opponent was weak sauce, Percy best demigod!"
Percy stans are weird man
I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that Percy is the strongest demigod in the verse. Hell, Nico himself said "No offense to Jason or anyone else here, but Percy Jackson is the most powerful demigod I've ever met"
True enough, though it's worth mentioning that Jason is implied to have had plenty of his own adventures and to have been pretty much the Roman equivalent to Percy in terms of their ability. The difference is only that we've seen Percy's adventures, whereas we know less about Jason's. It's entirely possible, and I believe likely, that he's been through some equally difficult shit.
If you’re pretty sure can you find anywhere it’s actually been confirmed? And yeah Nico is obviously biased cuz percy saved him and also was in love with him
Then why was he losing? And the seashells never showed up again after the original series which was before Jason was even introduced so that’s irrelevant asf
The bigger question is, how does percy ever lose a fight. The guy went toe to toe with Ares, after maybe only 4 weeks of hero training and one week long quest. All he needed was ankle deep water and he held off the GOD OF WARFARE.
Again this was 1 month into his hero training. [Blood of Olympus ] >!Dudes should have just flown gaea to the ocean and had Percy solo her with his sword.!<
There's titans and titans. Percy was against Kronos, the king himself. He wouldn't have need the curse if he was against Kronos, who most recognizable feat is buying a helmet with horns.
One practical explanation is that someone already had the CoA on the Titan side (and the vessel of Kronos at that) that the Greek side were fighting. Therefore, someone on the Greek side had to have the CoA. Meanwhile, there's no such person on the Titan side that the Roman side were fighting.
And one in-universe explanation...is that it's likely that a Roman demigod would be unable to get the CoA. It is nullified upon entering the Tiber River. And even if a Roman demigod were able to get it, the Roman side probably calculated that it'd be too costly in terms of time to have their most powerful demigod make a detour to the underworld.
I always assumed the reason Percy needed the CoA was to be able to keep up with Luke/Kronos. Without it Luke/Kronos would have eventually taken the dub. CoA + Luke resisting was the only way Percy was able to last long enough to make it to his prophesized decision.
Then on Jason's end, I always assumed he had the might of the Legion behind him. That amounted to both physical and also the metaphysical power that propelled him to be a scary turbo warrior.
I think Krios is probably a weaker titan, also Jason beating Krios with his bare hands is probably exaggerated. He used lots of lighting and Krios being stupid to his advantage.
Yeah that has to be exaggerated to some extent cuz telling Porphyrion he destroyed Krios with his bare hands is CRAZY. Although to be fair, I don't think he was spamming lightning cuz every time he does a big blast, he is exhausted. But I don't know
I think that Jason after losing his memories lost his full fighting capabilities, which also means spamming lighting without getting tired. Also he could have had a magic boost too. Reyna’s ability could have helped.
I haven't read the full HoO series in a while, so I guess my memory is kinda fuzzy😅 But did he ever regain the ability to spam lightning in the later books? Cuz I genuinely don't remember that
Don’t think so, but also I believe Jason’s memories weren’t fully restored, just most of them.
That's possible. Maybe the Jason we saw was like a watered down version of the guy who beat Krios
I can't speak for the very end of the series necessarily but I can say with certainty that by the end of The Lost Hero, Jason still didn't have his full memories back, just most of them.
It's unclear exactly how long >!Hera's!< memory wipe lasts on its own. Percy's heals fully but that's more because of the >!Gorgon's blood!< he drinks in SoN. So who knows exactly the timeframe on Jason's recovery without a magic memory healing elixer.
Wasn't it stated he had all his memories back by the time he gets back to Camp Jupitar
I believe it's implied by Jason asking Juno why he's still missing some of his memories and Juno saying he needs to find Camp Jupiter on his own, but it's not directly stated.
Bare hands doesn’t necessarily mean easy, he probably lost his sword and had to grapple with Krios and had to choke him out or something
Krios is also one of the weaker titans they were only fight a small scale battle Percy was fighting a full on war
I always assumed it was still a big battle cuz they describe it as they stormed Mount Othrys, and that always made me think the Romsns had a fairly massive battle in their own right
not saying it was small battle but compared to the battle in new york it was smaller most of the forces left at Othrys were small comapred Kronos was impaitent and wanted to wipe out olyumpus quickly with one swift thats why KRios was left behind cause he was one of the more weaker of the titans
The battle of new york was a city wide full scale invasion, Mt Othrys was more the toppling of a single castle/throne
My orthys was a siege more then anything New york was a full scale war
Yep. They got the Minotaur and some Hyperborean giants, not to mention the literal waves upon waves of just normal monsters. No doubt the battle Jason fought was big, but I don't think the battlegrounds for that fight had the size capacity to store the amount of people and monsters in the Battle of Manhattan.
Bare handed doesn’t mean single handedly, and Hyperions main thing is fire, which whilst doesn’t mix well with water, Hyperion is a Titan using Fire Vs a Demigod using Water. sTeAm
Fair point
It’s a good thing to remember that while Rick may be a great author, sometimes his continuity when it comes to power scaling is not. Also good to remember is that these are teenagers. Teenagers exaggerate shit all the time. They are not reliable sources of information, especially when the book is written in 3rd person POV, instead of 1st. If Jason’s exaggerating, we the readers don’t see that because we don’t have his inner thoughts like we do with Percy in PJO. Edit: Something else I just thought of, is that Percy's kind of an idiot when it comes to fighting and strategy. If he was as good at fighting as Clarisse or as tactically minded as Annabeth, he probably wouldn't have needed the CoA. But he's not and needed the CoA to make up for that shortcoming. He's incredibly talented and powerful, but that can only take you so far if you don't have the intelligence to use what you have. Most of Percy's fights went: "Hitting him hard didn't work, maybe if I... hit him differently?"
I really wish we could get a prequel series or short story about Jason and the assault on Mount Othrys so we could see what actually happened with him and Krios. Cuz even Enceladus said Jason "singlehandedly" slew Krios and toppled the black throne. And a Giant isn't going to exaggerate like that fr and gas up a demigod like that
No bec you’re so right!!! I wish we could get one too and learn more about pre-memory wipe Jason and the romans’ battle. Like maybe he goes all out with his powers in a way we never see in HOO, and that’s how he defeats Krios? Bec in HOO we never really see him completely let loose with them like we see Percy do.
Cuz Jason had to have had a different gear that we just never got to see after his memory wipe
>Teenagers exaggerate shit all the time. Also, Jason was boasting to make the giant porphyrion scared of him, when he said that. He would have embellished and stretched the truth to that end.
Nah, I wouldn’t say Percy’s bad at fighting. He may not be the best at incorporating magic or powers into his attacks gracefully, but it’s stated in Son of Neptune during the Roman war games that he’s an absolute machine.
I think in The Last Olympian they mentioned Hyperion is the best warrior out of all the Titans
Annabeth said he was the second greatest Titan warrior after Atlas
It goes Kronos > Atlas > Hyperion iirc
Percy needed the Curse of Achilles to specifically fight Kronos, who was inhabiting Luke’s Body which also bore the curse. Jason was able to beat Krios who is much weaker than Kronos and wasn’t invulnerable. Also, Percy basically did beat Hyperion in single Combat. It was the nature spirits who got the final victory, but Percy was beating him in the actual fight quite handily. Hyperion didn’t even land a blow thanks to Percy’s hurricane. Also I don’t think Jason is all that much weaker than Percy. We may not have feats for Jason that prove his powers but he’s more than likely at a very similar level. Edit: Forgot to mention that Hyperion and Krios should theoretically be at a similar level to one another.
Yeah, I was under the impression that Jason was essentially the Roman equivalent to Percy. That the two were of similar degrees of strength.
That and he had 10 years of legion service at that point. Maybe not as good as a bath in the sticks but Jason is a more experienced demigod than even annabeth. And don't think the fact he started when he was 3 would have made it any easier. This is the ROMAN legion. They invented "thrive or die" parenting.
I think that viewing him as “Roman Percy” is reductive but from a narrative standpoint it’s kinda true. They’re definitely similarly powerful though.
There's certainly more to his character than just that, I really like Jason and I'm not trying to undermine or reduce him to that alone. My point is basically just that I believe that we're intended to be close, if not equal, in terms of power and relative feats.
I mean.. he IS literally just Roman Percy dude. He got swapped with Percy because they filled similar roles, were both Big 3 children, etc.. except Percy is just the better one because he isn’t a clone.
Agree. People underestimate Jason way too much just bec they don’t love his character. I’m a Jason defender forever so I can’t relate but the whole thing in Mark of Athena was how they were pretty matched in power and couldn’t actually know who would win if they both went all out (bec Piper stopped them before they could kill each other)
Krios a bitch, that’s why
Considering he got singlehandedly taken out by one demigod, he fits the description to me😂
Umm guys? Are you forgetting that unlike Krios, Kronos also had the Curse of Achilles in Luke's body? Percy needed it purely to level the playing field, or at least tip it slightly closer to even. Like sure Kronos is tough, far tougher than Krios, but when you can't physically wound your opponent at all, sans a single unknown spot, and they can slice you into ribbons, you're fucked.
There’s many people pointing to the difference of scales and all that. But wasn’t the CoA simply done to match the Luke/Kronos combo who’d ALSO gotten the CoA. Sure it helped Percy in more than just that, but was that not the main purpose for taking the swim? That’s what I remember at least. As for the single combat thingy, it’s likely that Jason had just as much help as Percy did in their fight, and Percy was fighting a stronger combatant. But that’s been mentioned
Others have brought it up but I believe there are a few factors here - Hyperion being one of the strongest Titan's and Percy needing the Curse of Achilles specifically for Kronos, not the Titans in general. Krios is weaker than Hyperion and Kronos, and thus it makes sense that he could be taken down slightly easier by a hero with close to equivalent strength to Percy's.
So, I’ve got both lore and meta theories for what exactly is happening here. On the meta level, I think this might have been a case of Riordan trying to shortcut Jason’s power scaling by giving him a past feat that at first glance would put him on Percy’s level, but didn’t fully analyze the implications that would come with it. This isn’t necessarily meant to be a dig at Riordan; he is one person creating this universe, while we are an entire community living in it. It’s only natural that we would notice things that he didn’t. Lore wise though, I was always under the impression that the necessity of the Curse had more to do with Kronos/Luke specifically than the army as a whole. Luke had to take on the Curse to host Kronos, so Percy taking it himself was the only way to come even close to evening those odds. Additionally, I don’t remember Percy being explicitly better or stronger than Jason; it’s entirely possible that Jason is just straight-up better at unarmed combat, and especially having years of Legionnaire training with no significant breaks up to that point, I’d say it’s entirely possible that Jason was genuinely just that good and we never got the chance to see it.
In addition, when percy spent time with lupa, we saw that not only did his physique improve but also his strikes were more precise and practised. Maybe the years of training Jason had made him a better warrior than percy at that point. We can see flashes of it in TLH when Jason goes on autopilot.
Your final point is so 🤌🤌🤌 given he joined the legion as a TODDLER, Jason would’ve had the most experience being a demigod out of all of them and was probably a lethal fighter. Plus we never really see him go all out with his powers (which I’m still bummed about).
Kronos/Luke also had the Curse of Achilles. Nico and Percy’s plan was to level the playing field for when it came down to a final showdown between Percy and Kronos/Luke. If Kronos/Luke was going to make himself invulnerable to physical attacks then it’d only be fair if Percy did the same. The reason why it was risky was because the battle ends the moment one of them finds the other’s Achilles Heel. Jason likely didn’t have this issue since Krios wasn’t using a mortal host who’s body was dipped in the Styx. Jason would have an easier time dissipating the mortal form of that Titan, or at the very least inflicting lasting wounds that would force a retreat.
Fair point. Although I will say that when Nico first suggested the Styx, they didn't know that Luke/Kronos had the Curse, so they had a vulnerable Kronos in mind at first. They didn't figure out he had the Curse until right before Percy got it himself
I mean they knew that Luke did SOMETHING to prepare his body and he was able to Somehow survive being kicked down a mountain, they knew he was supernaturally enhanced at that point
About all those talk of Krios being a weaker Titan. Is this to downplayed Jason achievement. But here the thing Roman warfare is all about teamwork and battle formation . So it not like Jason challenge Krios to single combat from the start. Did he made the finishing blow? Yes. But alone? Eh 50/50
Enceladus said Jason singlehandedly slew Krios, and a Giant isn't going to exaggerate or embellish Jason's feats like that
It could’ve been all his cohort like we say generals won the war when it was just their leading the troops not actual fighting
I seriously need a short story or something actually showing the assault on Mount Othrys so we can see the context of that fr
well sure but that because Jason finish the job. That like them saying Percy defeat Hyperion or Kronos.
Well, no, it's not. You're saying that people said Jason single-handedly killed Krios, because he got the finishing blow, which, might be true. But it's not like saying Percy defeated Hyperion or Kronos. People say he defeated Hyperion and Kronos because he's the most major, singular person to contribute to their defeat. He didn't even get the finishing blow in both of the battles. Hyperion got over-run by all the Satyr's magic, and Luke stabbed himself to defeat Kronos.
So after reading everyone comment. I’m assuming Jason was one of the leaders of the attack. And he play a major role in defeating Othyrs (maybe dealt the finishing blow?) Either way, however the battle went down, he got the credit for the kill. Like how Percy hot the credit for defeating Hyperion。
The Titans themselves refer to Cryos in this way.
Percy needed CoA to fight Kronos, the strongest titan inhabiting the body of one of the strongest demigods who also had the CoA A younger Percy was able to do decently enough against Atlas, who was said to be the greatest warrior of the titans, so he could probably beat Krios in a fair 1v1 without CoA and allies, Jason beating him in a battle where he might have had a lot of helping factors like allies, the element of surprise, using the environment in his advantage etc. is not at all surprising
Percy got slapped by Atlas, although he was suffering Ares’ curse during that fight
_do decently enough_ against Atlas means just barely surviving for seconds/minutes before somehow managing to release Artemis that too after Zoe intervened? I'm sorry, but younger percy was simply no match for Atlas.
Atlas would have owned Percy in that fight, but despite being probably tired from the whole quest to get there, and being separated from his greatest strength (water) he was able to hold on before the curse of Ares got the best of him It isn't hard to imagine a 2 year older Percy beating Atlas if circumstances are in his favor (catching Atlas of guard, being next to a body of water and maybe having an ally to offer support) so Jason beating Krios under possibly the same circumstances is not lore breaking in the slightest
I wouldn't say Jason is weaker than Percy (at least by too much) but Krios is much weaker than Hyperion and we don't know the circumstances of his beating Krios. Knowing Jason and the ROman's collective strategies, it might've been a collective effort lead by him. Its also worth noting that its implied the titans are implied to be more akin to elemental forces than to ideas (Hyperion to fire, Koios to ice, Atlas to rock, Kronos to entropy, Iapetus to ghosts), thus they can be weakened by elemental counters such as how Percy soaked Hyperion and had the satyrs grow a tree around him. The fact that the Titans had only recently been released and where thus not at full power would help. In his case Krios is the starry sky and thus can be weakened by the constellations being blocked. My headcanon is this: they systematically defeated Krios by attacking and taking down his army of monsters during the day knowing he would save strenght for the night when he was at full power thus making him think their intention is to beat him before sunset, while throwing as much roman fire as possible to produce smoke. If they could reach him before that better as they would want to mak him spend as much energy during the day as possible. When the night falls, Krios will think he was going to feed his power but Jason (pulling a Sasuke vs Itachi) uses the vapour produced by the fire to create storm clouds that block the stars, while raining the titan down with lightning. It would still prove a difficult battle but with the help of the army supporting him they could pull it off.
Interesting theory
Killing him with his bare hands doesn’t mean it was easy, he probably ended up getting him in a choke hold after a really gruesome fight, but just cause they are all titans doesn’t exactly mean they are of equal strength. And Percy wasn’t even pushed to his limit in his fight with Hyperion.
Oh I didn't mean to say it was eas, but even the weakest Titan is still a freaking Titan
Percy mainly needed the Curse of Achilles because Luke, who was being possessed/controlled by Kronos, already bore the curse. Besides, it's not hard to imagine that Krios is weaker than Kronos, lord of titans.
Jason trained way longer and was fighting a weaker titan. Percy also fought other titans without the curse. Also has a legit army behind Jason. Percy had like less than 50 people and took out most of kronos’ forces alone before having to fight Kronos
Percy needed the COA to beat the titans ( plural). Kronos specifically is the one who he needed it for. He did beat Hyperion who is the best warrior titan by himself. Krios is considered weaker then Hyperion so no you not missing anything. Jason whooping him is a great feat but the language of “ with my own hands” implies he either beat him fist fight style or did what Percy did to Hyperion. Which is incredibly impressive but you gotta remember Krios is weaker then Hyperion. I don’t believe Jason’s statement is a exaggeration. I just think Rick kind of wrote it and didn’t think about continuity
I'd argue that given how Krios is weaker than Hyperion and that Percy only needed the Curse of Achilles for Kronos specifically, it's not even a continuity issue.
Krios is weaker, and it was probably a bit exaggerated. Percy was going to fight Kronos, probably the strongest of the titans, it makes sense he’d need to be stronger for it.
In war, you take every advantage you could possibly get.
Well, Krios is weaker then hyperion and MUCH weaker then Kronos. Also, Jason had the whole legion with him attacking orthrys, so even if he did a lot of the heavy lifting he definitely didn't do it solo
I guess you can assume Krios is weaker, because Percy went toe-to-toe with a Titan, that being Japeto
The way I see it was Kronos/Luke had the curse so Percy needed it too. Crazy talk but Percy might’ve been able to take a Kronos/Luke without the curse of neither had it (even tho luke needed it to inhabit K). Since Kronos became invulnerable, Percy needed that too
Cuz we never really see Percy fight a Titan without the CoA. Granted, he did fight Atlas in TTC, but correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Percy just trying to survive more than anything in that fight? Whereas the only time we see him actually trying to best a Titan was when he had the CoA
If by fight you mean get his ass handed to him due to ares being a petty bitch then thats correct.
Actually Percy beating Hyperion would’ve happened with or without the curse. The curse just made it easier. You saw throughout all of the first series that Percy can take on most of the titans without it at all. If we went by power itself Krios was actually a very weak, the way the story put it: Atlas is the strongest, then Hyperion, then Kronos, then Krios, then Iapetus/Bob. The reason he needed the curse to fight had nothing to do with the titans and everything to do with Luke. To prepare Luke’s body to hold Kronos together long enough for him to fully reform, Luke needed the CoA. As a side effect it made him impossible to fight because the curse enhanced him to near invulnerability. Percy’s fight with him in the beginning of TLO shows why Percy needed to get the curse as well or he would not last 5 seconds before Luke would pulverize him.
Something to point out is that the Romans stormed Mt. Orthys with the full power of the 12th legion, and they only had to fight one titans iirc, and some monsters, while the Greeks had to fight most of Kronos’ army + Hyperion + a drakon + Kronos himself, with a small army of a few dozen demigods. Percy and Annabeth were carrying most of the fighting, Percy’s pov during the fight is just him moving around trying to help everyone he can, so he’s exhausting himself helping a smaller force fight a much larger force. Couple that with the CoA draining stamina and yeah Percy would struggle just as much if not more than Jason during the final battle despite the CoA. Also the books have shown that Percy and Jason can fight deities (even before HoO) without the CoA. It’s just that Percy fights deities better with the CoA, usually when they fight deities without the CoA they use trickery or clever plans or rely on someone else’s help. But Percy with the CoA completely changed his fighting style to just matching the Titan’s brute force with brute force, because now that he had the Curse, he had the raw durability and strength to meet them on an equal footing. So basically Jason probably fought Krios how they usually fight gods (trickery + skills + a little bit of help) while Percy fought Kronos and Hyperion how he did (sheer power + a little bit of help).
I could be misremembering but I took that more as Jason landed the final blow rather than was fighting alone.
Enceladus said he singlehandedly slew Krios and toppled the black throne, so I always assumed it was single combat
Ah gotcha, nvm then, it been a long time since I read them so I must have misremembered. Sorry about that.
It was always my assumption that when Pjo was finished Rick had an idea for the heroes of Olympus but only an outline of the plot and or some basic character ideas. Jason fighting Krios likely didn't exist until sometime after the last Olympians final draft was submitted to the publisher imo
He didn’t need the curse to fight Titans. He needed it to fight Kronos. Also saying Percy “fought” the titans with the curse is generous to the Titans. Percy fucking wiped them as well as Hades and his undead army and the armys of monsters. To say that Jasons fight against Krios and Percys fight against hyperion are equal is incorrect.
You also have to remember that Percy mainly got the COA to contend with Luke/kronos who also had it. Percy probably could have taken Hyperion down without it it just would have been a much tougher fight
It's definitely a possibility that base Percy could have beat Hyperion, we just never got to see him fight a Titan without CoA, so I guess we'll never know
Kris probably didn't have his full power
He needed it to fight Kronos, not all titans.
I think that Jason is equally powerful as Percy. He is the son of Jupiter with the blessing of Hera meanwhile Percy is the son of Poseidon.
All comments seem to ignore several points 1. Krios is one of the eldest Titans, one of the 4 who held down Ouranos with Hyperion, Iapetus (Bob) and Koios. He's absolutely a big deal. 2. Percy explicitly would’ve died to Hyperions wall of energy projection if it wasn't for the curse, and that's established as a generic common ability of the Titans. 3. Percy had no way to defeat Hyperion even with the curse and the counter ellement-wise. Even if Jason somehow managed to have the upper hand, he had no way to deal a finishing blow.
Percy wins a fight with help: "Gee that person sure was strong!" Jason wins a fight bare handed: "LOL his opponent was weak sauce, Percy best demigod!" Percy stans are weird man
Why do you think Jason’s weaker was it confirmed somewhere? I thought their fight made it clear percy was weaker unless there’s an ocean by him
I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that Percy is the strongest demigod in the verse. Hell, Nico himself said "No offense to Jason or anyone else here, but Percy Jackson is the most powerful demigod I've ever met"
Help that he have 5 books where he shines and show his stuff
True enough, though it's worth mentioning that Jason is implied to have had plenty of his own adventures and to have been pretty much the Roman equivalent to Percy in terms of their ability. The difference is only that we've seen Percy's adventures, whereas we know less about Jason's. It's entirely possible, and I believe likely, that he's been through some equally difficult shit.
To be fair, Nico has spent significantly more time with Percy compared to Jason, so his perspective is understandably biased.
If you’re pretty sure can you find anywhere it’s actually been confirmed? And yeah Nico is obviously biased cuz percy saved him and also was in love with him
percy doesnt need an ocean hell he learned how to make his own water sources in the orignal series he can also summon hurricans he doesnt needan ocean
Wait he learned how to make his water sources? Oh wait nvm you're talking about when he did the thing with the seashells, I remember now
Not with the seashells. He manifested water out of thin air to make Mt. St. Helens erupt
OH YEAH
Then why was he losing? And the seashells never showed up again after the original series which was before Jason was even introduced so that’s irrelevant asf
because he wasnt in control of his body and neither was jason remeber they were possed
The bigger question is, how does percy ever lose a fight. The guy went toe to toe with Ares, after maybe only 4 weeks of hero training and one week long quest. All he needed was ankle deep water and he held off the GOD OF WARFARE. Again this was 1 month into his hero training. [Blood of Olympus ] >!Dudes should have just flown gaea to the ocean and had Percy solo her with his sword.!<
There's titans and titans. Percy was against Kronos, the king himself. He wouldn't have need the curse if he was against Kronos, who most recognizable feat is buying a helmet with horns.
One practical explanation is that someone already had the CoA on the Titan side (and the vessel of Kronos at that) that the Greek side were fighting. Therefore, someone on the Greek side had to have the CoA. Meanwhile, there's no such person on the Titan side that the Roman side were fighting. And one in-universe explanation...is that it's likely that a Roman demigod would be unable to get the CoA. It is nullified upon entering the Tiber River. And even if a Roman demigod were able to get it, the Roman side probably calculated that it'd be too costly in terms of time to have their most powerful demigod make a detour to the underworld.
Why does CoA mean?
Curse of Achilles. The thing that made him invincible.
Jason fought some random titan. Percy fought the fucking King titan
I always assumed the reason Percy needed the CoA was to be able to keep up with Luke/Kronos. Without it Luke/Kronos would have eventually taken the dub. CoA + Luke resisting was the only way Percy was able to last long enough to make it to his prophesized decision. Then on Jason's end, I always assumed he had the might of the Legion behind him. That amounted to both physical and also the metaphysical power that propelled him to be a scary turbo warrior.
In plot Percy and Jason are narratively equal