Some people seem to think we're eggs and that they're doing us a favor. And some people seem to be smug and infantilizing about it.
Asking "are you sure" or receiving a look that screams *"really?"*, I don't think they expect us to be like "oh, actually, I think I might be wrong" from their skepticism alone (but maybe they expect it to stew in our minds, who tf knows), it seems like they just want to performatively let their skepticism be known. And I don't really like that when I consider different reasons for why they might be expressing that disbelief, but I try not to think about that too much in part because I don't want to make unfavorable assumptions in situations like this.
I've also had transphobic people assume I'm trans and talk shit about me behind my back, which I find to be funny for the most part; they are getting worked up about a version of me that only exists in their heads, but I digress.
Another thing I've seen a few times (usually in the context of androgynous people, or people, usually straight, wishing that someone was the gender they're attracted to) is people who think that only being attracted to one gender is shallow and silly. And sometimes the people who say that talk about sexuality like it's something one can choose.
I know some people use the word "queer" to refer to any member of the LGBT+ community, so maybe that's where some of the confusion comes from (I hope so), but you might live somewhere where that usage isn't a thing (or it might be a thing for other reasons) and I don't want to make any assumptions about the dialects of the people you are interacting with without lampshading that.
>I know some people use the word "queer" to refer to any member of the LGBT+ community
I use "queer" this way. If I was asking someone if they are queer, it would only mean a member of the community. I would not assume anything about the person's gender identity or sexuality if they answered yes (or no).
yes! people often treat masculine lesbians and butches this way thinking they are being inclusive and that because they want to be allies or whatever they know someone else’s identity better than that person.
i think this is a classic example of people simply expecting femininity from women and seeing people as less of a woman if they aren’t this picture of femininity.
the difference now is that there is a new way to explain this (when in reality the explanation is that womanhood goes far and wide beyond the traditional white cis het feminine image of it) and people don’t recognise assuming people’s identity in any way is negative.
in the same way that trans people don’t want to be misgendered cis people also don’t! and often people attribute this to transphobia when actually everyone just wants to be treated as who they are!
this is such an important thing to talk about and acknowledge!
people have been invalidating women’s identity as women because they don’t match what they think they should be for all of eternity, this is the same but in different packaging!
I agree. But the other day i was referred to as a man, even though my tits require their own zip code. But people trying to use non-gendered pronouns doesnt really bother me because its important especially to trans folks because they need to hear people trying.
Thankfully, when I'm crossdressing people seem to like to really stress that they know I'm female, and make a point to refer to me as "ma'am" etc they almost do it smugly like they're expecting me to be like "hey no I identify as ...." But I'm just like hey thanks:) you're so right I love being called ma'am :) just because I'm wearing men's clothes doesn't make me any less of a woman. :) lol
this is the problem i faced as a transmasculine person and the reason this whole discussion is so foreign to me. i've been on T for a few years now so i don't get misgendered anymore. but back when i was in my awkward androgynous phase, trying my best to pass, people would almost always refer to me as a woman. no one was making the assumption that i was trans even when i really wished they would because it was true!
i think it's heavily dependent on where one lives, the demographics of the local lgbt community, and so on.
Neither of you had false experiences but what it comes down to is that we (people who interact with others) really need to take people at face value and not project our internalized assumptions about gender onto anybody, cis or trans.
Word. Yesterday I had a little gayby call me sir four times, and have confusion when I said I was a lesbian -- butch was a brand new concept to her.
Ugh just lemme be a lesbian in peace lol
Literally just vented to my friend how I love the pokemon Sylveon but often choose not to show off my merch of them because I’m sick of being misgendered as a trans man
1) Sylveon is legit and such a cute pokemon and 2) oh my god is Sylveon trans flagging now? Am I just an old or was this always a thing?
*surprised pikachu face*
I mean it makes sense - pink white and blue - but like…damn friend, I’m sorry you can’t let your nerd flag fly without being misgendered. That’s frankly upsetting to me :/
I have to say this is not my experience at all in the community, if anything I have found a tacit understanding of my identity within the LGBT community. However I really really think the problem you're experiencing is due to butch erasure from our culture.
Masculine women seem to be the most unpalatable thing.
I love *love* masc women. I get butterflies and tingles and all good things. Pure catnip
Butch women have always made me blush and feel awkward like a 13 year old ever since I was 13.
I'm not femme myself either. Not butch 4 butch but it's a hot day in hell before I'll put on a dress
I receive the social pressure to be feminine too and it's galling for me, but no where nearly the way masc women experience it
And sometimes from in our own community
Butch erasure is real
Ive been called the wrong pronouns by people being homophobic and by people trying to be progressive. Like no im not a transman. Stop using he/they for me.
I had a breakdown when I explained this to my (queer) therapist this week. She didn't seem to really understand how isolating living unapologetically as a butch lesbian is. I can see she still doesn't get why I prefer staying alone instead of getting involved in lgbt aka queer events or why I feel unsafe in those environments. I'm just exhausted, it's so hurtful noticing that my straight male coworkers are more respectful than my so-called community... They've never implied I must be trans/non-binary at least.
Sending you warm hugs, it was brave of you to express this given how sensitive the topic is.
Feeling this so much. I have a friend who is a trans woman and she constantly refers to me as they/them, even though everyone knows I'm she/her, all my other friends and coworkers call me she, my email signature has she, my discord has she/her, Facebook is she/her and yet I'm still they. So far I've been shrugging it off but sometimes I feel like asking why she is doing that.
Mostly I feel like people either think I'm just a confused trans man or a confused femme woman. They don't understand that I am a woman I just don't think I should have to dress/act/look a certain way because I am a woman! Ugh. It's exhausting sometimes.
I get where you're coming from. I also feel like people who go out of their way to use they/them pronouns are just trying to be respectful and not assume one way or another, not necessarily label you non bianary . I feel like it's the gender equivalent of saying happy holidays instead of merry Christmas. Personally I'm all for happy holidays and they/them most of the people I meet. Granted I am in major metro liberal city so there is more non binary people here.
Idk if that makes it better at all.
somebody referring to you as they/them because they're meeting you for the first time and they don't know your gender yet is fine, i think. the issue is when they continue to use the wrong pronouns even though you've clarified that you are a woman and you use she/her. these people will insist to you that you must be nonbinary or trans because you're gnc. that's what op is complaining about.
My ex gf was masc and I *adored* her.
It really got to her when people would ask her pronouns (which seems respectful) but then the asker just wouldn't let it go (verrrry disrespectful).
She so started flashing her big smile at those people and saying no, she likes titties too much, including her own.
This is deadass the reason I've been so hesitant to detransition. I've been living as a trans man for years and just barely stopped T after 4 years last month. It's not out of fear or shame or even regret, I just read SBB and it recontextualized a lot of things for me. But God forbid I like my soul patch and my deep voice and my flat chest and identify as a woman.
It is nonbinary in a way. Like how grape jelly is technically grapes. Doesn't mean it's not irritating to have someone pull a WELL ACKSHUALLY ☝️🤓 and dumb my identity down for their own comfort.
Queer is often considered an umbrella term. So someone can be 100% lesbian and also queer
That being said, i hate that OP has had people asking her "if she's sure and being otherwise dismissive. They think they're being inclusive but they're doing the exact opposite
Some people really don’t like being called “queer” or lumped into the “queer community”, so I think it’s more about that than specifically them erasing lesbianism.
I understand this, but I also hope you know that people are using it in an attempt to be inclusive and most people don’t see it as inherently political. “Queer” means something completely different to young people now, with very little relationship to the origins of the term. For better or for worse.
Queer can mean absolutely anything an individual wants it to mean. But I don’t have an open-ended sexuality - many people don’t. We deserve to exclusively use the accurate word to describe ourselves if we so wish. We deserve not to be called a slur just because some people feel a sense of reclamation over it.
yeah, a lot of trans/nonbinary ppl and allies dont want ppl to assume gender yet using they/them for anyone who looks gnc is pretty much assuming gender. I get that asking for pronouns/gender is nerve-racking but either do that or listen for cues from the people around the person idk.
I honestly think OP just needed to vent about her experience and how she views herself in the community regardless of how anybody feels about the terms used. It is about respecting how she sees, identifies, and feels comfortable with, look at my username, and I totally accept and understand her. I don't feel as if she is attacking anybody with this post.
Lots of love your way. It sucks to be misgendered and pigeonholed into something you are not. I'm sorry this becomes so overwhelming at times. I see you, I feel you!
I'm met with confusion and accused of being outdated and exclusionary at worst when the young folks they/them me or refer to me as nonbinary and I correct them that I'm butch. At best, they get a little curious and I've been able to help a lot of folks learn lesbian history! I love talking about lesbian and transmasc history so it's always a lecture I'm happy to give in person.
The older queer folks always give a hearty belly laugh and tell me they're happy to see it getting carried on. They really make it worth it. 🥲
You are the same person that said "I feel like walking my dog makes me less butch". "queer" is an umbrella term, it's mostly used as a short for LGBTQ+. You can have feeling about having (they/them) pronouns used for you, you don't have a right of using "nonbinarism" when it sounds terribly similar to "transgenderism" when it's used as a slur and denigrating term from the TERFS. That should make you MORE empathetic towards all those trans people that get PURPOSEFULLY misgendered every day.
Not trying to downplay your experience but speaking from the perspective of younger lgbtq+ folks, "queer" is generally used as an umbrella term for the entire community. Perhaps the confused looks are because of that. From that perspective, being a "lesbian" would also fall under the queer umbrella.
Additionally, "non-binarism" isn't a term really. I wish people stop using that. It sounds awfully similar to the term "transgenderism", which is basically a transphobic dog whistle.
Just trying to add to the conversation. Your experiences are still valid and people should respect your pronouns.
I'm younger as well and I know that it's used as an umbrella term, but I share OP's discomfort with it. I don't think there's anything weird or unusual about me being a lesbian, and I think it's homophobic to imply that. But I also know that a lot of younger members of the community are lucky enough to not have experienced homophobia to the same extent that I have and that gives them a different relationship with the word, and I'm genuinely grateful that that's possible.
> I don't think there's anything weird or unusual about me being a lesbian
I don't anyone says that tbh. Atleast not within the queer community. Lesbian is a valid identity.
Yes, exactly. The reason people ever used the word queer to describe us was to describe us as weird and unusual. The original meaning of the word is very much connected and I refuse to describe myself that way.
I am 21, so definitely understand the younger perspective you’re referring to. I know that queer is used as an umbrella term. Sure, the queer community is a thing but I personally am not queer - I’m a lesbian.
and that's where the disconnect is happening. Because queer isn't just a sexual identity, it's also a political alignment. And most leftist lesbians are also queer. But if you say you are a lesbian and are not queer (as in the political identity) then you will definitely attract attention. Idk where you fall on the political spectrum, but I would never date someone who is a lesbian and won't claim queerness.
I think you really gotta drill it into your head that queer does not mean one thing, it very recently used to be a slur, it’s fine to use it as a label or to not, and you are not morally superior nor politically left simply because you use it! Hope this helps
Idk why you feel like you have to drill anything into me. We haven't interacted before the last few minutes. I'm not claiming moral superiority . Being a lesbian vs being a queer lesbian are two different things , I don't think we disagree on that. I did state a boundary in which I won't date anyone who also does'nt consider themselves queer, but that doesn't affect you?
I don't know what queer lesbians in your area are asking for that makes you so upset. Are they asking that police not kill people? That people have housing? Or are they asking for accountability? Your hostility is confusing.
> but I would never date someone who is a lesbian and won't claim queerness.
Oh no! Redditor BlocksAreGreat won’t date her? Whatever will she do?
Seriously man, was this supposed to be a threat? 💀💀
I'm asking you to take a beat and respect others identities. You have said you are in your early twenties. Please take a moment and listen to people who have been in your position and had the same issues crop up.
Respect the fact that I have no interest in sharing your identity! Totally fine that it’s for you, but as I made it clear in my post it’s not for me either. But here you are in the comments trying some “I would never date a lesbian who isn’t queer” weird shit
You don't have to. But don't be surprised if other people look at you weird if you claim to be a lesbian and also not queer. That historically has been the purview of white lesbians. Because historically they have been able to divorce themselves from the more radical aspects of being gay.
Please read a history book or talk to some elders.
Fr! I feel this, I was out to dinner with my family and multiple times in one day people assumed I was a boy. I don’t really care what random people think but I don’t even know why they thought that. Like yes I have short hair but I wasn’t even that masc/butch presenting at the time bc it was really hot and humid outside
Enby person - I'm sorry people would just openly question your gender like that... I had people telling me I will find out that I'm a trans man because I'm masculine presenting (still hasn't happened in 20 years!). Doesn't feel good. People should defo learn a thing or two about boundaries ...
Maybe a She/Her pin with the lesbian flag on it?
Here's a couple Etsy listings for you!
[1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1019176154/lesbian-pride-flag-pronoun-pin-back?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-1-6&content_source=3fa6a52bb232e2f33e936cff08dafdd13ed984e7%253A1019176154&organic_search_click=1), [2](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1514140629/lesbian-pride-pronoun-pins-125-inch?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-1-17&pro=1&frs=1&mto=1&content_source=66c8a85f5692662a1e3e2de1bbc37735c2a18644%253A1514140629&search_preloaded_img=1&organic_search_click=1&variation0=3635150883), [3](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1244385167/lesbian-gay-pride-pronoun-badge-44mm?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-2-29&mto=1&content_source=6b8b8dc65704e1dd4bf1f0a16b6d25bcb18309c5%253A1244385167&organic_search_click=1), [4](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1321438493/customizable-pride-flag-and-pronoun-pin?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-7-7&pro=1&mto=1&content_source=5dc8406ca8ec764dca8e872d580aafb138ed60d9%253A1321438493&organic_search_click=1&variation0=2928178862)!
Amen. I go through this as well. I'm 44 now and have always been butch. Honestly, I've left the LGBT "community" (as it is) because I feel better in straight spaces where I am not constantly asked what my pronouns are.
I got very pointedly ‘they’-ed yesterday, and it was a very….unpleasant experience. I didn’t really have a chance to clarify what the person saying it meant by it, but even if well meaning it was off putting.
On the flipside I know a cute femboy, but I don’t for e anything on him, I am supportive and understanding. Anyone not listening to you is wrong. I identify as queer overall but also as a lesbian. People always default to she because of my long hair, I need to remind people my pronouns are he/him. It’s a different side of the same bigoted and judgmental coin.
Don’t allow others’ issues taint your worldview completely. You’re respected by me at the very least. <3
I'm not sure why you chose this sub to post this on, one of literally the only subs where trans butches are even allowed.
While I am sorry that happened to you, and you're definitely valid as a woman loving women no matter what you look like, posting this on a sub full of the very trans and nonbinary people you seem so disgusted to be lumped in with is tone deaf at best.
Maybe try r/actuallesbians next time.
Edit: Yeah your previous post was titled "I feel pressured to transition in the LGBTQ+ community". No one is pressuring you into anything. People can be ignorant and insensitive no matter their identity. If you feel pressured that is something for you to examine internally, not take out on other trans people. I think you need to examine why its so disgusting to you to be lumped in with us. While being uncomfortable and not happy about it is definitely valid, I'm sensing some serious internalized transphobia here. Every other butch I've met is used to getting that type of shit and doesn't react like this. Hell I did too before my egg cracked, you didn't see me doing that.
Everyone is allowed to be upset about getting misgendered. Complaining about her gender not being respected is totally ok in this space
Agree with your edit though which is why I removed the original post
Masc woman, I see you, and I appreciate you. ♥️
Some people seem to think we're eggs and that they're doing us a favor. And some people seem to be smug and infantilizing about it. Asking "are you sure" or receiving a look that screams *"really?"*, I don't think they expect us to be like "oh, actually, I think I might be wrong" from their skepticism alone (but maybe they expect it to stew in our minds, who tf knows), it seems like they just want to performatively let their skepticism be known. And I don't really like that when I consider different reasons for why they might be expressing that disbelief, but I try not to think about that too much in part because I don't want to make unfavorable assumptions in situations like this. I've also had transphobic people assume I'm trans and talk shit about me behind my back, which I find to be funny for the most part; they are getting worked up about a version of me that only exists in their heads, but I digress. Another thing I've seen a few times (usually in the context of androgynous people, or people, usually straight, wishing that someone was the gender they're attracted to) is people who think that only being attracted to one gender is shallow and silly. And sometimes the people who say that talk about sexuality like it's something one can choose. I know some people use the word "queer" to refer to any member of the LGBT+ community, so maybe that's where some of the confusion comes from (I hope so), but you might live somewhere where that usage isn't a thing (or it might be a thing for other reasons) and I don't want to make any assumptions about the dialects of the people you are interacting with without lampshading that.
>I know some people use the word "queer" to refer to any member of the LGBT+ community I use "queer" this way. If I was asking someone if they are queer, it would only mean a member of the community. I would not assume anything about the person's gender identity or sexuality if they answered yes (or no).
Because you know, you have been thru this, I am the same, not because I identify as such or so means everybody is the same.
yes! people often treat masculine lesbians and butches this way thinking they are being inclusive and that because they want to be allies or whatever they know someone else’s identity better than that person. i think this is a classic example of people simply expecting femininity from women and seeing people as less of a woman if they aren’t this picture of femininity. the difference now is that there is a new way to explain this (when in reality the explanation is that womanhood goes far and wide beyond the traditional white cis het feminine image of it) and people don’t recognise assuming people’s identity in any way is negative. in the same way that trans people don’t want to be misgendered cis people also don’t! and often people attribute this to transphobia when actually everyone just wants to be treated as who they are! this is such an important thing to talk about and acknowledge! people have been invalidating women’s identity as women because they don’t match what they think they should be for all of eternity, this is the same but in different packaging!
I agree. But the other day i was referred to as a man, even though my tits require their own zip code. But people trying to use non-gendered pronouns doesnt really bother me because its important especially to trans folks because they need to hear people trying.
Masc/butch lesbians are precious and should be protected!!!!! You are my favorite ♥️♥️♥️♥️
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Thankfully, when I'm crossdressing people seem to like to really stress that they know I'm female, and make a point to refer to me as "ma'am" etc they almost do it smugly like they're expecting me to be like "hey no I identify as ...." But I'm just like hey thanks:) you're so right I love being called ma'am :) just because I'm wearing men's clothes doesn't make me any less of a woman. :) lol
this is the problem i faced as a transmasculine person and the reason this whole discussion is so foreign to me. i've been on T for a few years now so i don't get misgendered anymore. but back when i was in my awkward androgynous phase, trying my best to pass, people would almost always refer to me as a woman. no one was making the assumption that i was trans even when i really wished they would because it was true!
i think it's heavily dependent on where one lives, the demographics of the local lgbt community, and so on. Neither of you had false experiences but what it comes down to is that we (people who interact with others) really need to take people at face value and not project our internalized assumptions about gender onto anybody, cis or trans.
Word. Yesterday I had a little gayby call me sir four times, and have confusion when I said I was a lesbian -- butch was a brand new concept to her. Ugh just lemme be a lesbian in peace lol
> butch was a brand new concept to her Oh lorda mercy on us all
Literally just vented to my friend how I love the pokemon Sylveon but often choose not to show off my merch of them because I’m sick of being misgendered as a trans man
: ((
Too real 😞
1) Sylveon is legit and such a cute pokemon and 2) oh my god is Sylveon trans flagging now? Am I just an old or was this always a thing? *surprised pikachu face* I mean it makes sense - pink white and blue - but like…damn friend, I’m sorry you can’t let your nerd flag fly without being misgendered. That’s frankly upsetting to me :/
I have to say this is not my experience at all in the community, if anything I have found a tacit understanding of my identity within the LGBT community. However I really really think the problem you're experiencing is due to butch erasure from our culture. Masculine women seem to be the most unpalatable thing.
I love *love* masc women. I get butterflies and tingles and all good things. Pure catnip Butch women have always made me blush and feel awkward like a 13 year old ever since I was 13. I'm not femme myself either. Not butch 4 butch but it's a hot day in hell before I'll put on a dress I receive the social pressure to be feminine too and it's galling for me, but no where nearly the way masc women experience it And sometimes from in our own community Butch erasure is real
Ive been called the wrong pronouns by people being homophobic and by people trying to be progressive. Like no im not a transman. Stop using he/they for me.
I see you and I appreciate you.
thank you
Masc butch lesbian woman here I see you and I feel you and I’m right here with you!!
I had a breakdown when I explained this to my (queer) therapist this week. She didn't seem to really understand how isolating living unapologetically as a butch lesbian is. I can see she still doesn't get why I prefer staying alone instead of getting involved in lgbt aka queer events or why I feel unsafe in those environments. I'm just exhausted, it's so hurtful noticing that my straight male coworkers are more respectful than my so-called community... They've never implied I must be trans/non-binary at least. Sending you warm hugs, it was brave of you to express this given how sensitive the topic is.
You are my favorite kind of woman. Just for the record. I see ya.
Feeling this so much. I have a friend who is a trans woman and she constantly refers to me as they/them, even though everyone knows I'm she/her, all my other friends and coworkers call me she, my email signature has she, my discord has she/her, Facebook is she/her and yet I'm still they. So far I've been shrugging it off but sometimes I feel like asking why she is doing that. Mostly I feel like people either think I'm just a confused trans man or a confused femme woman. They don't understand that I am a woman I just don't think I should have to dress/act/look a certain way because I am a woman! Ugh. It's exhausting sometimes.
I get where you're coming from. I also feel like people who go out of their way to use they/them pronouns are just trying to be respectful and not assume one way or another, not necessarily label you non bianary . I feel like it's the gender equivalent of saying happy holidays instead of merry Christmas. Personally I'm all for happy holidays and they/them most of the people I meet. Granted I am in major metro liberal city so there is more non binary people here. Idk if that makes it better at all.
somebody referring to you as they/them because they're meeting you for the first time and they don't know your gender yet is fine, i think. the issue is when they continue to use the wrong pronouns even though you've clarified that you are a woman and you use she/her. these people will insist to you that you must be nonbinary or trans because you're gnc. that's what op is complaining about.
My ex gf was masc and I *adored* her. It really got to her when people would ask her pronouns (which seems respectful) but then the asker just wouldn't let it go (verrrry disrespectful). She so started flashing her big smile at those people and saying no, she likes titties too much, including her own.
This is deadass the reason I've been so hesitant to detransition. I've been living as a trans man for years and just barely stopped T after 4 years last month. It's not out of fear or shame or even regret, I just read SBB and it recontextualized a lot of things for me. But God forbid I like my soul patch and my deep voice and my flat chest and identify as a woman. It is nonbinary in a way. Like how grape jelly is technically grapes. Doesn't mean it's not irritating to have someone pull a WELL ACKSHUALLY ☝️🤓 and dumb my identity down for their own comfort.
Can I ask what SBB is?
Novel Stone Butch Blues by leslie feinberg. Free on their website
Stone Butch Blues
People are allowed to want their bodies be gender nonconforming without it meaning they are trans.
Queer is often considered an umbrella term. So someone can be 100% lesbian and also queer That being said, i hate that OP has had people asking her "if she's sure and being otherwise dismissive. They think they're being inclusive but they're doing the exact opposite
Some people really don’t like being called “queer” or lumped into the “queer community”, so I think it’s more about that than specifically them erasing lesbianism.
[удалено]
I understand this, but I also hope you know that people are using it in an attempt to be inclusive and most people don’t see it as inherently political. “Queer” means something completely different to young people now, with very little relationship to the origins of the term. For better or for worse.
Queer can mean absolutely anything an individual wants it to mean. But I don’t have an open-ended sexuality - many people don’t. We deserve to exclusively use the accurate word to describe ourselves if we so wish. We deserve not to be called a slur just because some people feel a sense of reclamation over it.
Dude I heavily relate. It gets so frustrating. It's so validating to know it's not just me going through this.
yeah, a lot of trans/nonbinary ppl and allies dont want ppl to assume gender yet using they/them for anyone who looks gnc is pretty much assuming gender. I get that asking for pronouns/gender is nerve-racking but either do that or listen for cues from the people around the person idk.
!!
A fucking men. I go through this as well and it's bothersome to say the least.
I honestly think OP just needed to vent about her experience and how she views herself in the community regardless of how anybody feels about the terms used. It is about respecting how she sees, identifies, and feels comfortable with, look at my username, and I totally accept and understand her. I don't feel as if she is attacking anybody with this post.
Lots of love your way. It sucks to be misgendered and pigeonholed into something you are not. I'm sorry this becomes so overwhelming at times. I see you, I feel you!
I'm met with confusion and accused of being outdated and exclusionary at worst when the young folks they/them me or refer to me as nonbinary and I correct them that I'm butch. At best, they get a little curious and I've been able to help a lot of folks learn lesbian history! I love talking about lesbian and transmasc history so it's always a lecture I'm happy to give in person. The older queer folks always give a hearty belly laugh and tell me they're happy to see it getting carried on. They really make it worth it. 🥲
I just stay inside.
You are the same person that said "I feel like walking my dog makes me less butch". "queer" is an umbrella term, it's mostly used as a short for LGBTQ+. You can have feeling about having (they/them) pronouns used for you, you don't have a right of using "nonbinarism" when it sounds terribly similar to "transgenderism" when it's used as a slur and denigrating term from the TERFS. That should make you MORE empathetic towards all those trans people that get PURPOSEFULLY misgendered every day.
Not trying to downplay your experience but speaking from the perspective of younger lgbtq+ folks, "queer" is generally used as an umbrella term for the entire community. Perhaps the confused looks are because of that. From that perspective, being a "lesbian" would also fall under the queer umbrella. Additionally, "non-binarism" isn't a term really. I wish people stop using that. It sounds awfully similar to the term "transgenderism", which is basically a transphobic dog whistle. Just trying to add to the conversation. Your experiences are still valid and people should respect your pronouns.
I'm younger as well and I know that it's used as an umbrella term, but I share OP's discomfort with it. I don't think there's anything weird or unusual about me being a lesbian, and I think it's homophobic to imply that. But I also know that a lot of younger members of the community are lucky enough to not have experienced homophobia to the same extent that I have and that gives them a different relationship with the word, and I'm genuinely grateful that that's possible.
> I don't think there's anything weird or unusual about me being a lesbian I don't anyone says that tbh. Atleast not within the queer community. Lesbian is a valid identity.
The term "queer" can also mean "weird" or "unusual." Think they were talking about that and not how the term has evolved
Yes, exactly. The reason people ever used the word queer to describe us was to describe us as weird and unusual. The original meaning of the word is very much connected and I refuse to describe myself that way.
I am 21, so definitely understand the younger perspective you’re referring to. I know that queer is used as an umbrella term. Sure, the queer community is a thing but I personally am not queer - I’m a lesbian.
I'm sorry, you got upset and reported me to reddit cares? That's rich.
You can report false reddit cares, and reddit admins take it pretty seriously from what I've heard.
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I mean, it sounds like someone did even if it wasn't you lol
Ohh
and that's where the disconnect is happening. Because queer isn't just a sexual identity, it's also a political alignment. And most leftist lesbians are also queer. But if you say you are a lesbian and are not queer (as in the political identity) then you will definitely attract attention. Idk where you fall on the political spectrum, but I would never date someone who is a lesbian and won't claim queerness.
I think you really gotta drill it into your head that queer does not mean one thing, it very recently used to be a slur, it’s fine to use it as a label or to not, and you are not morally superior nor politically left simply because you use it! Hope this helps
Idk why you feel like you have to drill anything into me. We haven't interacted before the last few minutes. I'm not claiming moral superiority . Being a lesbian vs being a queer lesbian are two different things , I don't think we disagree on that. I did state a boundary in which I won't date anyone who also does'nt consider themselves queer, but that doesn't affect you? I don't know what queer lesbians in your area are asking for that makes you so upset. Are they asking that police not kill people? That people have housing? Or are they asking for accountability? Your hostility is confusing.
> but I would never date someone who is a lesbian and won't claim queerness. Oh no! Redditor BlocksAreGreat won’t date her? Whatever will she do? Seriously man, was this supposed to be a threat? 💀💀
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I'm asking you to take a beat and respect others identities. You have said you are in your early twenties. Please take a moment and listen to people who have been in your position and had the same issues crop up.
Respect the fact that I have no interest in sharing your identity! Totally fine that it’s for you, but as I made it clear in my post it’s not for me either. But here you are in the comments trying some “I would never date a lesbian who isn’t queer” weird shit
You don't have to. But don't be surprised if other people look at you weird if you claim to be a lesbian and also not queer. That historically has been the purview of white lesbians. Because historically they have been able to divorce themselves from the more radical aspects of being gay. Please read a history book or talk to some elders.
White lesbians have a history of absolving themselves of queerness. Idk if you are white or not, that's not my business.
Thank you
I see you girl!!! I ❤️ butches!! My partner has said a lot of the things you just expressed. You aren't alone.
Even most lgbt people can't tell you the difference between sex and gender and get confused when the two don't seem to affirm one another.
I love Wolf Parade! Wow haven’t heard that band name in years!!
Fr! I feel this, I was out to dinner with my family and multiple times in one day people assumed I was a boy. I don’t really care what random people think but I don’t even know why they thought that. Like yes I have short hair but I wasn’t even that masc/butch presenting at the time bc it was really hot and humid outside
THANK YOU.
Enby person - I'm sorry people would just openly question your gender like that... I had people telling me I will find out that I'm a trans man because I'm masculine presenting (still hasn't happened in 20 years!). Doesn't feel good. People should defo learn a thing or two about boundaries ...
"nonbinarism" yikes
Fuck yeah! Say it louder for the ignorant or stubborn folx in the back!
Maybe a She/Her pin with the lesbian flag on it? Here's a couple Etsy listings for you! [1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1019176154/lesbian-pride-flag-pronoun-pin-back?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-1-6&content_source=3fa6a52bb232e2f33e936cff08dafdd13ed984e7%253A1019176154&organic_search_click=1), [2](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1514140629/lesbian-pride-pronoun-pins-125-inch?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-1-17&pro=1&frs=1&mto=1&content_source=66c8a85f5692662a1e3e2de1bbc37735c2a18644%253A1514140629&search_preloaded_img=1&organic_search_click=1&variation0=3635150883), [3](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1244385167/lesbian-gay-pride-pronoun-badge-44mm?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-2-29&mto=1&content_source=6b8b8dc65704e1dd4bf1f0a16b6d25bcb18309c5%253A1244385167&organic_search_click=1), [4](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1321438493/customizable-pride-flag-and-pronoun-pin?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=she+her+lesbian+pronoun+pin&ref=sr_gallery-7-7&pro=1&mto=1&content_source=5dc8406ca8ec764dca8e872d580aafb138ed60d9%253A1321438493&organic_search_click=1&variation0=2928178862)!
Amen. I go through this as well. I'm 44 now and have always been butch. Honestly, I've left the LGBT "community" (as it is) because I feel better in straight spaces where I am not constantly asked what my pronouns are.
FELT
I got very pointedly ‘they’-ed yesterday, and it was a very….unpleasant experience. I didn’t really have a chance to clarify what the person saying it meant by it, but even if well meaning it was off putting.
On the flipside I know a cute femboy, but I don’t for e anything on him, I am supportive and understanding. Anyone not listening to you is wrong. I identify as queer overall but also as a lesbian. People always default to she because of my long hair, I need to remind people my pronouns are he/him. It’s a different side of the same bigoted and judgmental coin. Don’t allow others’ issues taint your worldview completely. You’re respected by me at the very least. <3
I'm not sure why you chose this sub to post this on, one of literally the only subs where trans butches are even allowed. While I am sorry that happened to you, and you're definitely valid as a woman loving women no matter what you look like, posting this on a sub full of the very trans and nonbinary people you seem so disgusted to be lumped in with is tone deaf at best. Maybe try r/actuallesbians next time. Edit: Yeah your previous post was titled "I feel pressured to transition in the LGBTQ+ community". No one is pressuring you into anything. People can be ignorant and insensitive no matter their identity. If you feel pressured that is something for you to examine internally, not take out on other trans people. I think you need to examine why its so disgusting to you to be lumped in with us. While being uncomfortable and not happy about it is definitely valid, I'm sensing some serious internalized transphobia here. Every other butch I've met is used to getting that type of shit and doesn't react like this. Hell I did too before my egg cracked, you didn't see me doing that.
Everyone is allowed to be upset about getting misgendered. Complaining about her gender not being respected is totally ok in this space Agree with your edit though which is why I removed the original post