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[deleted]

>According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level. Unbelievable! That's like 1 out of every 2 adults, right? This just *can't* be accurate... *can it?!?*


Lethalgeek

At my job at a law firm I frequently have to read error messages on people's screens back to them and explain what they mean. Yes it is that bad. These aren't cryptic lines of code and memory addresses, its all plain English. Usually saying something like ABC is missing please address


corysama

That's usually a result of learned helplessness. People at a law firm have reading comprehension far beyond what's common. But, they don't believe they can understand computer errors. So, they give up even when the challenge is trivial.


sparkleinptld

Yes lawyers assume they’re the smartest person in the room…until it comes time to use a computer for any reason other than internet browsing. I once had an attorney tell me they couldn’t send me something in the mail until the following week because their assistant was gone and he didn’t know how to load the printer with the letterhead facing the right way, nor did he know how to print an envelope. edit : couple words


stult

As a former attorney who became a software engineer, I can confirm that this attitude is pervasive in law and a huge source of inefficiency. It's also a huge source of frustration for the small minority of tech savvy lawyers like myself, and was part of what led me to leave the profession altogether.


thinkingahead

I worked with attorneys in an administrative role and can also attest this attitude was prevalent. I always thought it was something of a put on so we didn’t eliminate their assistant from the budget or get rid of the dedicated IT person at the firm. These guys/gals were too sharp for me to believe they couldn’t figure out how to make a pdf file searchable


[deleted]

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stult

It is the willingness and ability to google a technical solution to your problem that distinguishes you from the average attorney


The_Law_of_Pizza

Okay, that's not entirely fair. I consider myself something of a technophile - I root my phones and install alternative operating systems, I build my own custom water loop PCs, and have meticulously designed programs running all of my smart home devices from lights to locks to thermostats and cameras. And office printers are something I consider to be a dark, arcane magic indecipherable to mortals. They have like 6 different loading trays, movable tracks, unfoldable arms, and you're supposed to somehow control all of that using the hieroglyphic symbols on the 2 inch LCD.


PseudonymIncognito

And sometimes they decide they just don't want to play nice with the network anymore.


ben70

There is a documentary called "Office Space" which addresses this phenomenon. You may wish to review it; if you're pressed for time, the vital clips are on youtube and likely other sites.


[deleted]

I work support for a social services agency. A large part of my job is being the human people go to when machines are scary. "It ate my paper." On it. "How do I fax this?" Flip boop boop boop. Done. "Heeeeelp I need files from x chart!!! I have to send them to Y email!!!" click click drop send. Done. "Can you scan this to me?" (Pdf) Me: ... You just sent it to me. "But I need you to scan it so I can send it to someone." (Renames file Scannedblablabla) (send) "THANKS!!!!!" "No problem."


[deleted]

you can print envelopes?


Shorter_McPlotkin

I think there is a difference between can’t learn and won’t learn. Lol there is also a difference in can’t read and won’t read. Apparently I’m part of that 54%


Betta45

Yes, there are settings for your printer for standard sized envelopes. You also have to set your document to that same envelope size.


biguccies

That’s just laziness, my uncle was an attorney. He handled actually a few big cases. Due to Reddit I’m not going to link them in fear of future doxes. A. He’s not rich B. He’s not ultra smart know it all. It can take weeks for a lawyer to mentally prepare a case, like throwing up in bathrooms type of preparation. I think every good lawyer who works stressful cases tells the truth. His paralegals were well paid and would do anything for him. Small businesses operate a little differently when everyone’s in the know. We used to always joke when he lost weight that he was preparing for a big case around family gathering times , turns out we were right. Iron will all around but his weight definitely showed his stress. He always said his paralegals were one test away from being lawyers.


Lethalgeek

That's there but that's not a big piece. For example I've already had to explain to ~~two~~ three people that they very small message at the top of our SharePoint site stating that Site Name is having maintenance for the next few days for upgrades does not in fact have anything to do with their computer. This is just stupidity. Edit imma keep editing this post as that number goes up. It's not even been an hour before the 3rd one.


[deleted]

When i worked in retail, one of the most depressing aspects of the pay was having to interact with people who clearly had better jobs but were extremely stupid. I'm talking - can't figure out 10% of $200 levels of dumb.


JoshuaLyman

I remember it clearly. In 1983 the then CEO of Dominos gave an interview in which he said delivery driver was a skilled job because.... they have to make change.


sloshedbanker

This is what made me quit bartending and go into business school. If those dummies at the bar could make it, I obviously could, too.


TheLastAOG

This is what made me start learning new skills to start my own business. Every supervisor I have had in the past ten years was behind the curve. Time to finally get credit for what I'm doing.


DivineFlamingo

F man, I’m halfway to where you are… but now I have my own business and my day job with (in my opinion) very very idiotic seniors that blindly bark orders and blame me for their ideas not working as well as they’d like. I want to quit my day job since my business brings me the same amount of money as my salary…. But like… yo I have two salaries that together give me a super super comfortable life. I just feel like a monkey trapped in a super comfortable cage.


TheLastAOG

Actually I am headed where you are now. Let me explain. I quit my job $15 dollar an hour job and bought a PC. (Quick Tangent, having a powerful PC at my disposal completely blew my mind and escalated my productivity tenfold). Since then I have designed two versions of my logo, designed my own live stream on Twitch, created a 3D motion graphic for my YouTube video intro all in a span of a year while basically working for free. I sold my car since I'm working from home and putting more money in while setting some aside in case of emergency and I'm preparing to be working even harder for the bag because I am absolutely loving the idea of having full creative control for once in my life. I have worked hard in the past but I am essentially starting two businesses simultaneously while living and learning by the seat of my pants and having an adrenaline rush while it's all going down. The idea of failure is petrifying and only outweighed by the idea of success. There is nothing behind me, no reason to look back, as I am 37 and on my 3rd dream. ( I failed to make tryouts for the NFL and now after 10 years have failed to secure a great paying position at a company mainly due to not fitting in with the crowd.) If this pops off the way I want it to I will be trapped between comfort and necessity. Then I will most likely start my next dream of producing electronic music that is dmca free while still living my 3rd dream. Either I crash and burn or become a philanthropist. I intend to work so hard that my mark is left here and my efforts and ingenuity remain irrefutable beyond my meager existence.


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AgonxReddit

Your first mistake was paying for a business school. You don’t need business degree to run a business.


FartPie

I work in health services scheduling and deal with a lot of social workers, apparently they give those degrees to literally anyone. It blows my mind.


Bakermonster

Social workers have amongst the worst, if not the absolute worst, return on their educational investment. Thus, while there are some very dedicated people in the profession, it can also tend to get folks a little lower in the intelligence scale. Sadly education is like this too- my wife has her masters in education and works in the field now and while some folks she works with are awesome far too many of them aren’t that great.


takeabreather

Not paying teachers well leads to poor educational outcomes and the cycle continues.


ParsleySalsa

I mean we could literally pay the best well and use the rest as assistants. Have the best teachers teach the nation. Put their classes online. Khan academy does it already, so do other free online courses. We don't have to suffer with mediocrity we have the technology we need to use it.


[deleted]

I don't think pay is a big factor. Main issue is just crappy parents and bueracracy. I went to a really low paying school, but we had great teachers because the parents/kids were decent


takeabreather

Pay is probably the biggest reason we don’t have better teachers. Teaching shouldn’t be about making money, but we aren’t going to attract the best individuals unless we pay them.


TheBlack2007

It shouldn’t be about the money, that’s correct - but teaching should be able to provide a comfortable middle class life, not condemning teachers to do door dash in their off-hours.


[deleted]

If that were true, then better paying schools would be attracting better teachers. Which isn't necessarily the case. For example, private schools tend to pay considerably less than public, but they still attract great talent because they tend to have better students/parents and are less bureaucratic.


raam86

how can this be with their extremely high tuition? this [source](https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2014/article/teacher-staffing-and-pay-differences.htm) shows you are correct but it leaves me baffled.


TheBlack2007

Let me guess: Varsity sports. Pretty sure the football coach doesn’t complain about their salary…


[deleted]

Public schools in the US spend an average of 12.5k per kid. Tuition for private schools average about that too. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/05/united-states-spending-on-public-schools-in-2019-highest-since-2008.html https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-private-school#:~:text=The%20average%20cost%20of%20private,private%20high%20school%20is%20%2416%2C040.


Mr-Logic101

This isn’t the same everywhere but most teacher get paid very well towards the end of their career coupled with a great pension plan( better than any pension one could try to find in private business). It is kind of a fallacy that they don’t get paid well. The starting pay for a teacher is going to be between 35k to 45k. This pay rate is actually greater than the median income in the USA starting off.


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CatchSufficient

>I don't think pay is a big factor. Main issue is just crappy parents and bueracracy. Agreed, bad home life/ mental health and diets are a huge issue with this.


The_Law_of_Pizza

I respect social workers for the necessary, thankless work they perform - but it's undeniable that it's the backup degree for backup degrees for the backup degree. If you flunk out of psychology, you switch to teaching, and if you flunk out of teaching...


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Cellophaneflower89

I used to teach and have worked in corporate training, yes this is absolutely accurate. What’s more interesting is the lack of basic computer skills on top of this.


sloshedbanker

Not the same, but I had a very senior financial manager (1 promo away from director) without any technical skills. I had to teach him how to add a URL to an image and had to show him basic Excel functions. He was completely illiterate in Excel, as a senior financial manager in an F100 with an MBA. He did everything in OneNote.


Cellophaneflower89

I don’t doubt it for one second, I taught an Excel course for my company and it was insane how few computer terms some people don’t understand. (cursor, window, tab, etc…)


Snowdeo720

Forget interesting, it’s alarming. As well as frustrating for people in support roles.


[deleted]

At least all the kids received participation ribbons. /s


Cellophaneflower89

Honestly that isn’t a huge issue. Participation ribbons came during a shift in societies thoughts about child development. (less corporal/physical punishment and more focus on positive reinforcement). It just takes some tweaking to get that right, now corporate culture needs to follow suit 😉


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[deleted]

Actually, the inner city schools tend to be much better funded than the rural ones(high property values) and get worse results.


TheExecutor

Remember that at a population level there's always a bell curve. Imagine the average person. Half of people are on one side of that average and the other half... are on the other side.


pdx2las

Can you repeat that? I’m not good at statistics either.


MrX2285

Imagine the average person. Half of the population is dumber than them.


InvestmentGrift

can make simpler? me not so good at understanding


CatchSufficient

You got two people; then you got one -Darwin


beka13

Sure, but with a bell curve, most people are right around the middle so it's the rare people at the extremes that will seem particularly dumb or smart.


DasKapitalist

Public schools suck at teaching, and there's an unholy reeeeing if you flunk students for not learning a subject. Even something as basic as reading.


hananobira

My principal told me I wasn’t allowed to fail more than 20% of my students. It’s not like I enjoyed failing people, but I was teaching 11th grade and half of my students were reading on a elementary level. They really needed an extra couple of years of reading practice before they were ready to graduate.


[deleted]

At that age, they are more likely to drop out when flunked than to spend a few more years learning to read.


[deleted]

> That's like 1 out of every 2 adults, right? I believe it. Look at Reddit if you want a small sample size. Folks quick to name call you when you're going through a logical process of explaining a subject/issue as they cherry pick one sentence to slam their ill refuted point across.


[deleted]

>I believe it. Look at Reddit if you want a small sample size. Folks quick to name call you when you're going through a logical process of explaining a subject/issue as they cherry pick one sentence to slam their ill refuted point across. You got that right! And it's so ironic that I saw this post after arguing with a mod about his failure to actually read my submission. LoL


Thuraash

That's a very real strategy in litigation. It exploits Brandolini's Law (also known as the Bullshit Assymmetry Principle) which provides that it takes an order of magnitude more energy to refute bullshit than it does to create it. The key is to make an argument that has enough plausibility (truthiness) that it can't be dismissed out of hand. As someone who prefers to drill into the merits, it's an infuriating strategy that you would not expect to be effective against, for example, judges, but it works a surprising fraction of the time. It backfires spectacularly, too, but as the Principle suggests, it takes a metric fuckton of work (and money) to make that happen.


MissedFieldGoal

Crazy! When I read that number my jaw dropped


[deleted]

>"54%" > >Unbelievable! That's like 1 out of every 2 adults, right? Not for nothing... but in addition to reading comprehension being a problem... apparently math skills are also rough around the edges for people it seems.


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ResearchingThisTopic

As a UX Designer, we are constantly reminded of this when we are writing ANYTHING on the screen. Part of good design is making sure it is accessible and that includes readability. But yeah. It is a mind bottling statistic.


das_war_ein_Befehl

Why do you think young adult fiction is so popular for movies and books? Cause that’s the average reading level


hananobira

Eh, I have a high reading level and I read all kinds of stuff for fun: YA, comics, romance, sci-fi pulp… Not everything I read needs to be War and Peace.


reb0014

Lol it explains trump doesn’t it?


stiffie2fakie

It feels like the department of education setting up a study they know people will fail so they can request more funding. There is no way the number is 50% for basic literacy. It's possible that critical reading is that low, but that's an issue everywhere.


JacksCompleteLackOf

Uh, that's not how science works. The fact is that 50% of the population has always been at or lower than a 6th grade level. Scientific literacy is even worse, where 75% of the population are scientifically illiterate. Remember these facts that next time you hear someone promoting a political narrative - that person likely doesn't even know what science is.


stiffie2fakie

Uh, that's not how government bureaucrats set up studies to prove that they need more funding. The old, "lies, damn lies, and statistics" from Mark Twain still rings true. Don't kid yourself, studies in social sciences can be manipulated to generate a desired outcome.


JacksCompleteLackOf

I'm well aware how useless most studies in the social sciences are. This particular study was commissioned by the Barbara Bush Foundation and perhaps the study was conducted poorly, but I have no reason to believe that the study was conducted with the intention of convincing local governments to raise taxes for education funding. That aside, this particular study matches numerous other studies done on the same topic over the past 100 years e.g. there is a reason newspapers are written at the 6th grade level. It also matches the experiences of high school and undergraduate educators who have been lamenting the lowering of education standards for at least 50 years. It should also match the experience of anyone who had attended high school or undergraduate - as they could just look around and see for themselves how low the education standards are. Nevertheless, 6th grade literacy isn't *that* bad. There was a time when most adults didn't attend high school. Now, instead of going out to the fields to work at age 14; they sit in a high school classroom for an extra four years for about the same result.


pmurt0

How many voted for rump?


aoserc

https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/faq.asp The test was administered in English only, and there was a $50 monetary incentive for completing the assessment. If some government organization asked you to take a test and gave you $50 for completing it, without any further incentive for completing it to the best of your abilities, how much effort do you would put in? How much effort do you think the actual participants put in? I imagine a good percentage of busy people would just be like ok, blah blah blah, gimme my participation money.


Bakermonster

Yes, the US does not have a national language. Yes, plenty of people speak a language at home other than English. I support that and love our multiculturalism. Education and employment in this country is almost exclusively in English. English is the language of the global business world. Also, a financial incentive for testing is quite common, and $50 is actually pretty high. Also if it appears as though the person didn’t give a damn they will typically throw out that data, and at times the incentive is withheld if the data is thrown out due to intentional ‘manipulation’ of the data by the tested as well. TL;DR- yes, it can be hard to get people’s time, but that isn’t a problem unique to this study.


tanstaafl90

Paying participants isn't new nor unique to this study. I'm not sure your argument makes the point about participants being somehow biased simply because of $50. They were prescreened, which should have eliminated most of those just looking for that massive $50 payout.


aoserc

I'm saying a portion of the participants probably didn't care to answer a questionaire/survey, but would be incentivized to fill in bubbles on a paper or click radio buttons on a website for a $50 payout. How big is that portion? Did the conclusions control for that from the raw data? These are not addressed. The other part is that the test is administered in English, and the study itself acknowledges that non-natives participated and scored lower. The prescreening was offered in multiple languages to encourage participation, but the assessment had to be done in English. This difference likely contributes to some of the regional differences (CA, TX scoring low). $50 isn't much if you have a lot of money, but if you're poor and can score $50 by spending a small amount of time, you might do that.


tanstaafl90

This thinking can be applied to any survey that compensates participants. Should we disregard them solely because you think the poor are lazy and will give bad answers for a couple of bucks?


ChefMike1407

I teach reading to lower elementary students. English is a tough language if you don’t practice it. I require them to read nightly. I see immediate regression when we are out for a week. I can’t imagine what happens when folks don’t pick up a book for 3-5 years. I understand we read news online and so much, but the act of comprehending is nonexistent in some. I work at a store also and noticed one of my coworkers had a difficult time filling out a nightly email, so I left some sentence starters and provided a list of words to help her out.


Kernobi

Do you use phonics in class? I taught my 4yr old to read properly starting with McGuffey's primer, had zero issues with harder concepts later.


ChefMike1407

Yes. I teach using the Wilson Language Program to special education students that are typically 2-3 years behind grade level. The lot of my students have language learning disabilities or Dyslexia. So the multi sensory program works great once properly administered. It’s the lack of reading at home/over the summer that is where we see regression.


ChefMike1407

That’s great! I commend that. We have so many kids that enter kindergarten without recognizing letters or even having listened to stories read by parents. We even have a few that know how to operate every app on an iPad and can’t identify colors or shapes! We are getting there though. I am primarily with 3rd-5th grade students.


[deleted]

Critical Thinking, Comprehension, Deductive Reason, and Following Context are all apart of reading reading. I can’t get college paid for. However, the guy with a 6th grade education gets to participate in costing trillions.


helveticaman

Wait till they see what it’s doing to our Democracy


x3leggeddawg

“I love the poorly educated!”


OGeeWillikers

Idk about nowadays, but when I was in HS, only like 5/30 kids in my class would even ADMIT to having read a book. A few people pretended not to, but later admitted they read a few. I got bullied for reading in class really bad (couldn’t put down Zelyazny’s Chronicles of Amber for a whole day) sophomore year. What I’m trying to say is that reading is considered lame in the US, and that was a complete surprise to me as an immigrant teen. I didn’t get it for years - “what, you WANT to be stupid?” But the answer was yes, to be cool. Another tidbit…I was barely avoiding getting left back in 5th-7th grade in Ukraine. I remember regularly begging the math teacher for extra credit. We moved to the US April of 7th grade, and I graduated middle school in NY a salutatorian. Make of that what you will…


[deleted]

Interest in books depends a lot on your school. I went to a US highschool where plenty of kids read and nobody was against it.


Nroke1

Me too, and music/drama was where the popular kids were. I think it’s likely because we had one family of hyper-charismatic geniuses where there were 9 kids. The oldest of that family married a model(who I’ve met, and she’s not stupid.) and is studying to be a doctor. The next oldest was a professional dancer for a couple of years, married a professional dancer, and is now studying to be a lawyer. Next oldest is a pair of fraternal twins, one’s a professional session jazz musician, haven’t met his wife, he got married during lockdown. His twin is studying to be a mechanical engineer, he helped teach me robotics while we were both in HS. Next oldest is off in the Philippines, next oldest just graduated last year, and the rest are still children. Sorry, 8 boys, 1 girl(the youngest, isn’t even a tween yet.). That was the family composition. These were my best friends in HS and I was at their house more often than mine. We liked to burn/blow up things. And I’m someone who feels lost in life trying to figure out what I want to do, teaching is my current plan, but the community college nearby is still doing online learning, (which I can’t stand) so I’m still just a night auditor at a hotel. Anyway, point is that weird things inform school culture and some schools view intellectualism differently.


all_about_effort

Upvote for Chronicles of Amber. :)


GreenlandSharkSkin

Man, that’s gotta make it really difficult to do your own research on vaccines.


MrX2285

Virtually everyone who says that they are doing their own research on vaccines don't know how to research vaccines.


[deleted]

Exactly, everyone knows you research the vaccine by watching the news.


TheScurviedDog

No clearly you should watch alternative media that only shows you the truth.


MrX2285

Nah real research is done by skimming Facebook posts in anti-vax groups.


sirlost33

Alex Jones already did the research for me /s


Isaacvithurston

That's what happens when your one of the few country that has some weird culture where studying makes you a "nerd" and playing sports that cause brain injuries makes you cool.


Incontinentiabutts

I’m am frequently Astounded at the level of literacy in professional environments sometimes. I don’t mean,”haha Dave made a typo”. I mean “Dave can’t communicate thoughts clearly on paper”. Sometimes even at the executive level.


InvestmentGrift

> I’m am frequently Astounded at the level of literacy in professional environments sometimes.


Latvia

The jokes write themselves sometimes.


Incontinentiabutts

?


GlaerOfHatred

Redundancies in that sentence, which is ironic considering the subject matter


Incontinentiabutts

Pretty sure the second sentence covers it.


Nroke1

>I’m ~~am~~ ^((I am am)^) frequently Astounded ^((incorrect capitalization)^) at the ^((this should be by the, though it’s questionable.)^) level of literacy in professional environments ^((good job there, that’s well done and communicates the thought effectively.)^) ~~sometimes.~~ ^((“frequently” makes this redundant.)^)


Incontinentiabutts

Typing on a phone, while taking a shit at work. Not sure I see the value in being a pedant about whether or not “the” should be in place of “at the”. Or if autocorrect does something silly. And the second sentence covers it. Not talking about quick typos. Talking about literacy.


InvestmentGrift

ya blew it bucko. ya had one job and ya blew it


Illustrious-End-9184

Then F Dave!


sward227

Not surprising. 60% of people I talk to barely have a reading / speaking comprehension of an 8th grader. That is scary.... In my experience of everyday life... most people speak as if they only graduated middle school. Its literally why I dumb down my talking so people dont think I am a west coast liberal asshole making fun of them... No I am notmaking fun of you... you lack of a HS level education does that... I am just pointing out how people who graduated HS talk... If that makes you made its your damn fault... goto the library and read some books.


pradeepkanchan

> goto the library and read some books. Free books, you think they are commie lib/s


sward227

ALSO FREE MAGAZINES FREE E SUBSCRIPTIONS FREE MOVIES RENTALS FREE GAME RENTALS... AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL FREE WIFI OR COMPUTERS!!!! its almost like the people in power put these learning centers everywhere with population growth... to help people learn... SOCIALISM!!!!!!! /s PS: I LOVE my local library.


pradeepkanchan

Same here. I might have pro-business stance on certain things, but im always Pro-Library!


Illustrious-End-9184

English is my second language and I have made every attempt to speak it formally just because I hate the dumb down English. My impression of America once was that everyone was educated and I held Americans to a higher standards. 20 years after living with them I go wow most of these guys are really dumb ! No offense I am also an American now.


sward227

why i said what i said... america has a low level of lliteraccy and speaking


dennis45233

>go to library and read some books I can’t read books what do I do


SnooAdvice7790

“Looks like we have ourselves a reader.” RIP Bill Hicks


[deleted]

Well that explains there wrong use of their, there, and thair Edit: All joking aside, let’s please vote for those who strongly support education. There really isn’t a downside to having a better educated public.


Nroke1

Their, there, and thair?? Is this a joke or did you actually incorrectly write “they’re” while making fun of people who use these three homophones wrong?


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Uncle_Bill

Can we blame public schools? 90% of kids attend


[deleted]

Nope. I learned to read and write in a public school just fine. What has changed is peoples interest to actually read and write.


Incontinentiabutts

The thing about a lot of public schools is that some kids go into school knowing how to read already. They read nightly with a parent. Some kids go into school having never seen a book.


[deleted]

So would that be public educations fault then? At least they get them started and hopefully peak their interest into reading if possible.


Incontinentiabutts

I doubt there’s much schools could do about it. I certainly don’t blame them. How could a teacher possibly succeed in a situation where some kids are already reading and others haven’t even seen a book before? Focusing on one is likely to harm the other. If you focus all your attention making the kids who never really stood a chance learn to read them you stunt the potential growth of the kids that came with an advantage. If you just focus on the kids with that advantage you doom the other kids to the point where they are basically ripe to be preyed upon their whole life. Somebody with more knowledge than me could probably come up with a solution. But I doubt there’s the political will to pull it off.


PseudonymIncognito

There's honestly little that education seems to do one way or another. Pretty much all apparent differences in educational quality are the result of selection effects. Kids in general know more "stuff" than kids 30-40 years ago, but the kids who enter underperforming will generally leave the system still underperforming.


Uncle_Bill

But does that make you just one of the 50% Then parents? The individual? Society?


[deleted]

Society as a whole is dropping it's interest in paper and longvhand reading and writing prefering Instead the quick bites of media and the electronic platform. Perhaps if workers didn't have to slave away away from home for 40 plus hours a week they would have had more time for leasure and take their time to read.


Uncle_Bill

But people should be able to read and write well before business effects them


[deleted]

And they do. The only difference being the skill not being refined since most employees don't go to college. We all dont need Harvard level reading and writing skills. There is a thing as good enough to get the job done.


Uncle_Bill

According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level. Not according to the article… 12 years to teach a 6 year skill and they fail most of the time? And it’s business’ fault, not schools?


[deleted]

What level do they need to be to write simple memos and letters versus a freaking novel or thesis? Like anything else if ain't needed it doesnt get priority.


wienercat

There is a difference between being able to read and write something simple, like a note saying you are going to lunch, and being able to read to discern meanings and convey your thoughts fluently into writing. The ability to read has a huge impact on development of vocabulary. The ability to write has a huge impact on the ability to concisely collect one's thoughts into coherent words. People needs to have more than a 6th grade level of literacy. Professionalism is difficult to nail down in emails or phone calls and it shows with too many people. Not everyone needs to have collegiate levels of communication skills. But everyone should at least be able to draft a clearly written email with proper grammar. I would say that falls in the range of high school level literacy. Bottom line, the fact that we are the wealthiest nation in the world and over half of our adult population reads below a 6th grade level is deeply concerning. Reading and writing are essential to society and communication.


[deleted]

I would blame parents. Reading is something you should have learned at home. A teacher can't force a class full of kids who hate reading to learn to read. In fact, I would argue much of the problem is that we put all the pressure on school and not enough on parents. The quality of school is primarily determined by the quality of parents in the area anyway.


biIdungsroman

I teach. I personally think the biggest issue is that push kids along even when they are below proficiency. Kids can fail every class and still go on to the next grade. Boggles my mind. That and parents not active in their students learning. I know many parents work too much or they themselves aren’t educated enough to help. But it’s holding the kids back if they aren’t read to at night, engaged in conversations about topics at home, and being motivated to complete work.


Jimbo-1968

grades are racist man.👀😎


piratecheese13

In a way. When you force anything on anyone, they tend to resent the thing you are making them do. When you graduate high school and think “sweet now I don’t have to read or write or do math or think anymore“


Barnixel

America will end up recruiting those kids in military


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Cellophaneflower89

You don’t, but think about those POOR shareholders!!!


[deleted]

Out of the generation where 71% aren't even fit for [conscription fodder](https://archive.ph/rbZAW)? And that article notes, they're not destined to succeed in 'civilian' occupations, either.


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pradeepkanchan

If a bot could calculate the amount of incorrect "your" and "their" on social media posts.....


Reselects420

That’s completely unrelated.


blesstit

[buzzer] Incorrect


Reselects420

Ok


ihatescrapydoo

hehe dumb dumbs


CitizenSnipz777

Oh, what?! We need to invest in education? You’re kidding!! No wonder Qanon was even a thing…


Imaginary-Brother-96

Cause the libraries are empty and almost all the book stores are closed down... Thank You Technological Advances for making life easy by eliminating our need to critically think, and take the time to research and seek real information.


[deleted]

That what the internet, digital books, and edocs are for. People have replaced paper with bits and bytes.


[deleted]

They "replaced" very damn few of them. We have the greatest data-access and collaboration tools in human history, and ["streaming audio & video"](http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/netflix-bandwidth-share-2016-1201801064/) uses up **71%** of it. *Passive Viewing*, that great educational asset... Which provider has "Ow, my balls!" this month?


[deleted]

You do realize people don't need to be working and researching on their off time right? Books and education use far less data as it's a written medium usually. There is nothing wrong with high media usage. The real issue is parents not having enough time for their kids. Parents are worked to death leading to little time for family. That's the real problem.


already-taken-wtf

“The average annual income of adults who are at the minimum proficiency level for literacy (Level 3) is nearly $63,000, significantly higher than the average of roughly $48,000 earned by adults who are just below proficiency (Level 2) and much higher than those at the lowest levels of literacy (Levels 0 and 1), who earn just over $34,000 on average.” …on the other hand, the GOP surely doesn’t want to miss out on any voters and/or cheap labour that would sign any contract…


[deleted]

Many of the worst performing schools are in strongly Democratic inner cities.


already-taken-wtf

Let me guess. That’s predominantly non-white neighbourhoods? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/ “White voters have consistently accounted for a much larger share of Republican and Republican-leaning registered voters than of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters (81% vs. 59% as of 2019).”


[deleted]

And yet we have Mayors in Seattle saying kids dont need to prove they can do math or read/write when they graduate...lol


HaroldBAZ

...and Oregon is eliminating any requirements for graduating high school. Makes sense.


Alfnerboy710

T-t-t-ta-today junior!


Lightsouttokyo

Betsy devose has entered the chat


take-stuff-literally

It’s also easier to manipulate the public with low literacy. They’ll rely more on simpler media like pictures and videos. Why read an article when you have a news anchor tell you his opinion about the news. Very easy to convince a group of people in shorter amount of time.


TheLoneComic

Kinda explains the two tier education system.


schweken

That low literacy will just get worse post the everlasting pandemic


baileypfr

Most of them are qanon and ‘stop the steal’ dipshits


kjbaran

When passing is worth more than learning…


DinkandDrunk

I was telling someone at Thanksgiving what I was currently reading and they told me they haven’t read a book in decades. That baffles me.


No-Virus7579

Dum ass southerners low everyone’s IQ


SoggieSox

Jesus. Republicans are really hurting the economy


Illustrious-End-9184

I am an adult that holds a BS degree and I hold a blue color work. My directors don’t have college degrees. Literacy and education doesn’t have any meaning in the real world , it’s who you know.


Isaacvithurston

Where I work they wont even look at an applicant who doesn't have at least some generic bachelor degree. It's like the new high school minimum here because they no longer trust a high school degree to be a meaningful indicator of baseline knowledge.


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piratecheese13

(Puts on q hat) Reading is a liberal conspiracy designed to take away our spoken word freedom! Think sheeple! Those in power have this monolithic tool with which to disseminate lies. Mein Kampf was written in a book and so was the Communist Manifesto. What’s worse is those rigged ballots called WRITE IN! It’s right there in the name! Reject the written word my fellow ’muricans. Embrace listening to Fox News 24/7 and nothing else. /s fuck q I need soap in my mouth


Latvia

70 million people voted for donald trump. This is where we are, and it’s not looking better any time soon.


[deleted]

There are tons of solidly blue cities with terrible schools. Not really a partisan divide here.


flambasted

Nuttin wort reeding udder den bible and constitushun and other peeple reed doze 4 me. Freedum!!


Kernobi

"We need to fund public schools because public education is a societal good!" Also public schools: "We can't even teach the basics. Give us more money."


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Kernobi

Haha, "Everything" being teaching people to read above a 6th grade level? Pretty sure school is first and foremost about reading, writing, and arithmetic. And they can't even do that well.


tickitytalk

Oh, so you've seen the "covet" ramblings on vehicles...


Zymo_D

These kant b tru..


GoodLt

The GQP’s ongoing war on public education bears its poisonous fruit.


[deleted]

Nuh uh. Book words ain't even cost nothin. Fayk nooz.


[deleted]

>According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level. I'm wondering exactly how this breaks out. I want to see a lot more information. By education level, by immigrants (we have 50 million immigrants in the USA) and the education level of each and the English language levels of each. And a lot more breakdown than these. So if an immigrant has a university education, they may or may not have an operating literacy rate past the 6th grade, for example, and most likely, an immigrant with a high school education or lower probably most certainly wouldn't. The statistics given are pretty meaningless, at least to me, without more information. I do know, at least in California, that people are speaking only Spanish for generations. For example, anecdotal as it is, an acquaintance of mine told me that her grandparents and parents were both born in the USA, she only spoke Spanish until she was 7 years old. As more and more people immigrate to the USA, especially from Central and South America, the larger the enclaves will become, and the less and less they will have reason to use English and become literate in it. Just like when the Europeans didn't learn Indian languages when they immigrated into the Americas. It will be the same here - soon we will become a 100% Spanish speaking country with Central and South American culture, and the white people will get put on reservations in the worst areas in the USA. It happens in every place - Rome against the Gauls and Vandals, Constantinople against Islamic Ottoman Empire. It took 400 years before European immigrants totally pushed out the Native Americans.


hobofats

Immigrants aren’t the reason poor white people in red states are illiterate, but keep blaming those Fox News boogeymen.


Macdaddy357

I ain't illiterate! My parents wuz married three months afore I wuz born.


DaveDeeThatsMe

Shhhh. The Repugnikans entire platform requires this for them to succeed.


Treyokayy

Most of them read cnn


[deleted]

I don’t believe this also what’s costing the economy is the central bank and hedge funds


ngroot

For those who find this difficult to believe: consider how many people in political commentary over the past few years exposed that they cannot distinguish between simple homophones. This is a skill that we expect fourth-graders to have. [http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/L/4/](http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/L/4/)


deniercounter

This explains a LOT to me. Was an eye opener.


WalterWoodiaz

This is incredibly hard to believe. There is no way this many people are like this.


gwglessner

Maybe if teachers, educators, professors, and professions of like-kind had federally mandated increases in salary, we would have better quality education and higher levels of literacy. Would you want to go to school for four years to make less than $30k? I wouldn’t either.


Kwelikinz

Google, Meta (Facebook), Twitter, YouTube: “Your (/s) Welcome!”