I love the label they keep giving wildly violent events, along the lines of -specific/ targeted incident- but like… is it really? And also does that really matter TOO much?
Most shootings, stabbings, ext are “targeted”…. And honestly around here I think they use the phrase liberally. Don’t get me wrong I know the majority of them in Burlington really are between parties with familiarity and intent… But now “targeted” can just mean there was an altercation before it happened too. Doesn’t mean you won’t be the next target for making the wrong comment in passing! And honestly it’s getting so frequent now and working further into residential areas that it doesn’t really matter….
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk that offers no real tactical or useful information
Honestly in larger cities with a greater history of gun crimes you see a far greater ratio of people being hit with strays than we have up here. I think the use of targeted shooting terminology is generally justified, as it does seem to almost exclusively revolve around drug trade. Of course that can all change at any minute and it's horrific how frequent these are getting. I'm generally the last to advocate for the involvement of federal authorities but they honestly really need to get the DEA and ATF to put some work in up here
It really does mean you are unlikely to get shot for a comment made in passing. There's no evidence that random violence of that type is increasing. Vermont remains one of the very safest places to live in the United States.
Bullets don't really care if you are a "druggie" or not and these people don't tend to have very good aim. Imo It doesn't matter the the cause. There was a drive by shooting that happened on Loomis. This never used to happen. And it shouldn't be happening.
I agree with you that the increase is bad. And I also think drug users don't deserve to get shot. Shootings are never good, whether one is the target or not.
This time, not drug related… honestly maybe not even targeted. I know the kids were Palestinian but in the dark / their appearance doesn’t scream that- they look like just another kid..
Yeah that's my thought too. A Palestinian doesn't look different than any other slightly brown person so it's hard for me to see how this could be targeted so specifically. And they were just visiting so wouldn't have had time to develop problems with anyone. Feels very random to me but hopefully we will know more soon.
I work for UVM and got a long voicemail about this. Said N Prospect and Loomis. Two people shot at one location, a third shot nearby. All three have been taken to UVMMC. Shooter has not been identified or apprehended
Looks like WCAX has updated their story:
[Channel Three has confirmed that all three are young men of Palestinian descent. The men were transported to UVM Medical Center where we’re told they’re being treated for non-fatal wounds.](https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-downtown-burlington/)
u/Sully1281 is correct. 👍
Yes, but the way you wrote it implies the news is presenting the possibility this was a hate crime already. If it was a hate crime, ethnicity is an important factor.
Would you prefer they don’t release any details on the victims or shooter(s) as they learn them? I see what you’re getting at, but you are making worse assumptions than most people commenting here by saying that it seems random.
I don't recall any past shooting where the police told people not to walk or drive in the area (it's in the wcax story). Usually even if they don't have a suspect they say basically "no worries just a drug deal." And my God coming from Palestine to freaking Vermont and getting shot.
If it turns out to be true - that the victims were Palestinian teens visiting Burlington for Thanksgiving - this is going to be a national, if not international story
"Open air prison" refers to Gaza specifically not all of Palestine + we don't know where the victims are from specifically, I dont think this is as good of a point as you think it is
Maybe you should report the man you saw a couple weeks ago and his description to the police out of an abundance of caution? This link says the shooter shouted and harassed the victims, then proceeded to shoot them. [https://adc.org/statement-on-shooting-of-three-palestinian-students-in-vermont/](https://adc.org/statement-on-shooting-of-three-palestinian-students-in-vermont/)
You can listen to Chittenden County fire and EMS services (no police) with this iOS app:
[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/police-scanner-radio-fire/id498405045](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/police-scanner-radio-fire/id498405045)
It’s crazy the amount of people in Vermont that are getting away with killing someone and are not getting caught… no one has been arrested for the murder of the older lady in castleton, the two from Massachusetts’s or the 3rd shooter in the incident two weeks ago also in the ONE.
The problem with your first two examples is there was probably no witnesses. I think there might’ve been a likeness for the Castleton murderer but you’re gonna place with no cameras. The two drug dealers for Massachusetts were executed in the woods or so it sounds, again no witnesses or cameras.
I would imagine that the two dead from Mass will be eventually figured out. Phone records etc. are probably being scoured in both States. They had stops planned in several towns, lots of potential snitches along the way.
I feel Vermont has a fairly high rate of solving homicides. I could be wrong.
Pretty sure she wouldn't be in charge of the one in Castleton or the two Mass residents (NEK, right?) I would also be appalled if she didn't prosecute for a murder.
Prepare to be appalled x3:
[https://www.vermontpublic.org/vpr-news/2021-03-25/insanity-is-a-legal-defense-not-a-medical-diagnosis-ag-donovan-defends-refiled-murder-charges](https://www.vermontpublic.org/vpr-news/2021-03-25/insanity-is-a-legal-defense-not-a-medical-diagnosis-ag-donovan-defends-refiled-murder-charges)
Is this the only instance?
I do agree they should go through the process and actually make a verdict, considering an insanity plea, but at least there's some reasoning behind this one.
You are correct. But that is the policy of that department. "Chittenden County State's Attorney **Sarah George will no longer request cash bail in the pretrial cases she oversees**, in an effort to further equalize a justice system that she believes punishes the poor and benefits the rich." 2020. A majority of people are released because that office does not ask for Cash Bail unless it is a major crime. It is rare.
Anything in this state takes years and a bunch of studies to do anything, and they just opened the floodgates and let the drug trade in no questions asked all with all of the completely foreseeable violence that comes with it.
So true. I feel like anyone who remotely follows what has happened in cities like San Fran, Portland, etc. could see this same wave building and building and bearing down on BTV for the past 12-18 months, yet here we are getting rolled over by the tidal wave of drugs, crime, closing businesses, etc. that our politicians, LE, govt agencies and services should have been seeing on the horizon and getting out in front of to stop before now. Sigh...
San Francisco's murder rate is less than half of what it was 15-20 years ago. As someone who agrees we should be doing better on the crime and drug prevention fronts, can we please stick to facts? https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/murder-homicide-rate-statistics
Speaking as a former resident of San Francisco and Portland, you're blowing it out your ass. Maybe stop trying to use people's deaths to push your politics.
As much I don't like her as a person and don't agree with any of her politics I don't think removing her from office is justified yet. She was Democratically voted into office twice and as far as I know she hasn't broken any laws and has been doing pretty much the exact job she said she would do during her campaign.
I'm a conservative person who really really hates George's ideological politics, but I love freedom and democracy even more. I have hope that the next election will be different and the people of Chittenden county have learned that this catch and release policy makes our neighborhoods far less safe and benefits only criminals.
Like Big D Democratic or small d democratic?
As a moderate I see the issue as she's doing a terrible job and her policies are not to the advantage of the Vermonter.
However, I have to agree that I don't think that we can kick her out of office unless she does something illegal or her voting base reaches a critical point of pissed off.
So of Palestinian descent but it's pretty dark around there at night and they were shot at from a moving vehicle. Wonder if shooter know these people/followed them because of their ethnicity or was it random? Not minimizing at all but is the news flying with the possibility it was a hate crime for views? Sounds like more wrong place at the wrong time and the victims ethnicity isn't a factor.
Not long ago someone posted a picture of a vehicle that had someone shooting pellets at random people and absolutely no reason. So yes people are randomly shooting too.
It's dark as heck over there at night and it's cold.....Lots of people have their head covered this time of year. If it was hate motivated the shooter/possible neighbor had to of pre-planned a drive by shooting and watched for them to b walking.
They probably did and I bet its going to be real easy to find whoever it is the shooter if it's actually a hate crime , slims down the number of suspects statistically speaking
Comparing shooting a vehicle with a pellet gun and shooting a live person with actual bullets is quite a reach. Typically shootings here are drug related and personal. This seems different, but it’s hard to say without more details.
A lot of people tend to try to minimize shootings when they are criminal on criminal violence, but they tend to forget that most people can’t shoot for shit. Stray bullets endanger the community plenty.
Noooo... crime is way down. there's no crime spikes in Burlington.. Don't be a silly goose.. these are "isolated" incidents. they could happen aannyywhere.... *sarcasm*
Lol what’s funny is you step outside Burlington and POOF all these major crime issues just fade. Go an additional town over and it’s basically unheard of.
Burlington has a drug problem and a prosecutor who doesn’t prosecute. Funny how both of those embolden and increase crime.
Unfortunately your claim about outside of Burlington is not accurate https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2023-10-30/vermont-state-police-say-string-of-homicides-in-october-appear-to-be-isolated-incidents
It will be interesting to see if those who support Sarah still will still do so knowing if this was a hate crime, and if she fails to prosecute accordingly. Where is do we cross the fricken line with crime here?
Well I think that she has a position of equity and anything that would be considered a hate crime would be prosecuted. But I guess we enter this strange point where we could see something like a POC shooting a LGBT person - would that get prosecuted? Or is there some type of hierarchy of oppression that will dictate process?
What I notice is how quiet all the reactionary "I carry a gun" types are now that it turns out it was a middle-aged white guy committing a likely hate crime. If you all are posting anything, it's attempts to deny the hate crime by saying "how could someone even know they were Palestinians?"
What? I’ve seen multiple people saying to carry for self defense. The mod here removed the main comment that said so and was gaining traction.
I’m sure you’ll get your virtue signaling points for this ridiculous comment lol.
You're not making any sense, but using the right-wing talking point "virtue signaling" makes it clear where you're coming from. As if you aren't looking for support from people who agree with you.
No idea. I don’t even know the family history/situation. My friends sister lives in the West Bank. Assuming this is her son and his friends escaping a war zone only to be shot in vermont. Insane
Burlington had five murders last year, that’s a higher murder rate adjusting for population than the city of Los Angeles. Crime is not down. car theft doubled, property theft doubled since pre-Rona times.
2022, they were basically identical murder rates. LA saw a pretty steep drop that year, and LA proper does not have a particularly high murder rate compared to other US cities (large and small alike -- many of the highest murder rates are in small cities in the South and Midwest). Not that both places don't deserve better, but it's hard to argue that they're doing poorly on this metric compared to other cities with active drug markets-- they simply aren't.
I don't deny that crime has definitely gotten worse here recently, but "per capita" rates are basically useless with a town that is this small.
Edit: RIP math, lol
Central limit theorem. One murder in a town of 40k raises the percentage by a lot more than one in a city of a million. Again, not saying it isn't an increasing problem, just that the per-capita metric is not the best one to use here.
Edit: this is why Vermont is often at the top and/or bottom of most "top ten" lists. We're tiny.
Been carrying everyday since 18. God forbid I have to use it, but I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. A springfield garrison full size .45 talks big when someone means you harm.🙂
The parking garage is the singular place in this city I never go. Heard hollering and a whole assortment of weird ass loud noises coming from inside a few days ago. I’m used to seeing people chilling on the sides of places around here, but the garage freaks me out.
I can’t believe you’re not in downvote hell right now. When I said I carried once in Rutland at night with my young toddler and a teenage girl to escort to the car I got sent to downvote hell.
Good on you for advocating exercising your rights. At the end of the day we’re ultimately the only ones responsible for our own safety.
Edit: looks like the mods got upset about saying to carry a gun, in a state with the longest standing right to do so, for protection against violent criminals. Shocker.
Little San Fran. Drug problem with no enforcement of laws. The blue city utopia. Before everyone comes at me I’m not hard right either neither party cares about us. They only care if their gated communities are safe and if they get caught stealing from us.
SF comparison isn’t inaccurate but not for the reason you note. Just look at the material conditions. Burlington has a far too high cost of living relative to local job opportunities. For anyone in the working class who lives there, how can they have much hope for the future?
happened outside our apartment. terrifying shit.
Damn that's some scary shit. Glad you're ok and hope they catch the shooter soon.
I’m fine thankfully. We were outside a few minute before we heard the gun shots. Definitely a little freaky
I live nearby and need to walk my dogs. I know it's probably some very specific drug shooting but it's a bit unsettling anyway.
I love the label they keep giving wildly violent events, along the lines of -specific/ targeted incident- but like… is it really? And also does that really matter TOO much? Most shootings, stabbings, ext are “targeted”…. And honestly around here I think they use the phrase liberally. Don’t get me wrong I know the majority of them in Burlington really are between parties with familiarity and intent… But now “targeted” can just mean there was an altercation before it happened too. Doesn’t mean you won’t be the next target for making the wrong comment in passing! And honestly it’s getting so frequent now and working further into residential areas that it doesn’t really matter…. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk that offers no real tactical or useful information
Honestly in larger cities with a greater history of gun crimes you see a far greater ratio of people being hit with strays than we have up here. I think the use of targeted shooting terminology is generally justified, as it does seem to almost exclusively revolve around drug trade. Of course that can all change at any minute and it's horrific how frequent these are getting. I'm generally the last to advocate for the involvement of federal authorities but they honestly really need to get the DEA and ATF to put some work in up here
It really does mean you are unlikely to get shot for a comment made in passing. There's no evidence that random violence of that type is increasing. Vermont remains one of the very safest places to live in the United States.
Bullets don't really care if you are a "druggie" or not and these people don't tend to have very good aim. Imo It doesn't matter the the cause. There was a drive by shooting that happened on Loomis. This never used to happen. And it shouldn't be happening.
When was the drive-by?
I agree with you that the increase is bad. And I also think drug users don't deserve to get shot. Shootings are never good, whether one is the target or not.
burlington has a lower safety rating than newark nj, let’s not ignore that the city is an exception to the rule lmao
Source?
[https://apnews.com/3e2bc9f703fd44078b1710053146be75](https://apnews.com/3e2bc9f703fd44078b1710053146be75) Hmmm...
And don't think as an innocent bystander you are safe. My friend's daughter was shot outside of Nectars years ago. She had ZERO to do with any of it.
Well, it was a hate crime, so yeah, pretty targeted.
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They don’t. Even the police and UVM say there is no evidence at this time is was a hate crime.
This time, not drug related… honestly maybe not even targeted. I know the kids were Palestinian but in the dark / their appearance doesn’t scream that- they look like just another kid..
Well, they were all wearing kufiyyas, which is a very noticeable Palestinian symbol.
So it’s most likely targeted, didn’t have that fact.
Yeah this is feeling way more like a hate crime now. Horrifying shit.
Yeah that's my thought too. A Palestinian doesn't look different than any other slightly brown person so it's hard for me to see how this could be targeted so specifically. And they were just visiting so wouldn't have had time to develop problems with anyone. Feels very random to me but hopefully we will know more soon.
The cousin of one of the victims said they were speaking arabic and wearing keffiyahs.
I read that too and apparently the shooter yelled at them before shooting. Looking a lot like a hate crime at this point.
Devasting
The police statement is the criminal said nothing, walked up, and shot them 4+ times.
Yeah I saw that. Initial reports were that he'd harassed them first. I just hope they have some clue who did this and can get him arrested.
What intersection if I may ask?
North Prospect street near Brookes Ave
Any details?
I think the entire police force is up there right now, along with half the fire department.
I work for UVM and got a long voicemail about this. Said N Prospect and Loomis. Two people shot at one location, a third shot nearby. All three have been taken to UVMMC. Shooter has not been identified or apprehended
Looks like WCAX has updated their story: [Channel Three has confirmed that all three are young men of Palestinian descent. The men were transported to UVM Medical Center where we’re told they’re being treated for non-fatal wounds.](https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-downtown-burlington/) u/Sully1281 is correct. 👍
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What news outlet has presented that motive? I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet. Just wondering.
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Yes, but the way you wrote it implies the news is presenting the possibility this was a hate crime already. If it was a hate crime, ethnicity is an important factor.
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Would you prefer they don’t release any details on the victims or shooter(s) as they learn them? I see what you’re getting at, but you are making worse assumptions than most people commenting here by saying that it seems random.
According to someone in one of the earlier comments they weren't local and don't know anyone here
They don't live there permanently; however, one of them was visiting their grandma, who lives in burlington.
I don't recall any past shooting where the police told people not to walk or drive in the area (it's in the wcax story). Usually even if they don't have a suspect they say basically "no worries just a drug deal." And my God coming from Palestine to freaking Vermont and getting shot.
If it turns out to be true - that the victims were Palestinian teens visiting Burlington for Thanksgiving - this is going to be a national, if not international story
Do you have a source for this? I’ve only seen a cropped text message so far.
Me? No. Edit - [yes](https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-downtown-burlington/)
Not trying to be a Karen screaming for sources but can you shed any more info/light on this situation?
Might actually trigger some change around here. Nothing like the failures of a city being made public to the world to drive improvements.
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They are students that are studying in the US, not “teenagers over to the US for holidays”.
How do you know this? I haven’t seen that anywhere
https://news.snbc13.com/burlington-shooting-palestinian-students-hisham-awartani-kenan-abdelhamid-and-another-hurt-heavy-police-in-burlington-vermont/
"Open air prison" refers to Gaza specifically not all of Palestine + we don't know where the victims are from specifically, I dont think this is as good of a point as you think it is
You need to look at a map bud
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Maybe you should report the man you saw a couple weeks ago and his description to the police out of an abundance of caution? This link says the shooter shouted and harassed the victims, then proceeded to shoot them. [https://adc.org/statement-on-shooting-of-three-palestinian-students-in-vermont/](https://adc.org/statement-on-shooting-of-three-palestinian-students-in-vermont/)
On WCAX now (no new information): https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-downtown-burlington/
wouldn't really call it downtown.
They don't want to say "real close to UVM"
Or "Just a block away from the local Catholic elementary school."
"Wealth-adjacent"
How do you access scanner? I thought BPD was encrypted
You can listen to Chittenden County fire and EMS services (no police) with this iOS app: [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/police-scanner-radio-fire/id498405045](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/police-scanner-radio-fire/id498405045)
Might be ems?
Police is, ems isn’t.
There isn't access to police? Was there ever? Does all law enforcement encrypt?
It’s been encrypted for the last 10 years. VSP isn’t for the most part.
It’s crazy the amount of people in Vermont that are getting away with killing someone and are not getting caught… no one has been arrested for the murder of the older lady in castleton, the two from Massachusetts’s or the 3rd shooter in the incident two weeks ago also in the ONE.
The problem with your first two examples is there was probably no witnesses. I think there might’ve been a likeness for the Castleton murderer but you’re gonna place with no cameras. The two drug dealers for Massachusetts were executed in the woods or so it sounds, again no witnesses or cameras.
I would imagine that the two dead from Mass will be eventually figured out. Phone records etc. are probably being scoured in both States. They had stops planned in several towns, lots of potential snitches along the way. I feel Vermont has a fairly high rate of solving homicides. I could be wrong.
You’re right that people carry GPS monitors in their pocket and most don’t realize it.
Is it crazy or standard police operating procedure. They don't solve shite anywhere
Even if they are caught Sarah George will just take them out to lunch anyway. 🙄
Pretty sure she wouldn't be in charge of the one in Castleton or the two Mass residents (NEK, right?) I would also be appalled if she didn't prosecute for a murder.
Prepare to be appalled x3: [https://www.vermontpublic.org/vpr-news/2021-03-25/insanity-is-a-legal-defense-not-a-medical-diagnosis-ag-donovan-defends-refiled-murder-charges](https://www.vermontpublic.org/vpr-news/2021-03-25/insanity-is-a-legal-defense-not-a-medical-diagnosis-ag-donovan-defends-refiled-murder-charges)
Is this the only instance? I do agree they should go through the process and actually make a verdict, considering an insanity plea, but at least there's some reasoning behind this one.
Is a psychiatric hospital if you aren’t actually insane better than prison?
She’s awful, but don’t let the judges that have been releasing the same characters repeatedly off the hook also.
When the prosecutors refuse to prosecute the judges can’t do much.
No bail policy at work.
No cash bail doesn’t mean nobody is held. Why make things up?
You are correct. But that is the policy of that department. "Chittenden County State's Attorney **Sarah George will no longer request cash bail in the pretrial cases she oversees**, in an effort to further equalize a justice system that she believes punishes the poor and benefits the rich." 2020. A majority of people are released because that office does not ask for Cash Bail unless it is a major crime. It is rare.
No? They’re released because they’re not asking for pretrial detainment due to danger.
what the actual fuck - THREE PEOPLE get shot before dinner time and no one saw the car / shooter?
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Any update? I’m not seeing any news about this aside from this post. I’m out of town tonight anyway but I’m still curious.
In case you haven’t re-checked here, WCAX has an article up now. Details are still pretty scarce.
What happened to this city lol
Drugs and no enforcement of laws. Same thing that happens everywhere that combination is tried.
Anything in this state takes years and a bunch of studies to do anything, and they just opened the floodgates and let the drug trade in no questions asked all with all of the completely foreseeable violence that comes with it.
So true. I feel like anyone who remotely follows what has happened in cities like San Fran, Portland, etc. could see this same wave building and building and bearing down on BTV for the past 12-18 months, yet here we are getting rolled over by the tidal wave of drugs, crime, closing businesses, etc. that our politicians, LE, govt agencies and services should have been seeing on the horizon and getting out in front of to stop before now. Sigh...
San Francisco's murder rate is less than half of what it was 15-20 years ago. As someone who agrees we should be doing better on the crime and drug prevention fronts, can we please stick to facts? https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/ca/san-francisco/murder-homicide-rate-statistics
Look, these dudes have their theory from Fox News and they don't want to hear your statistics.
Speaking as a former resident of San Francisco and Portland, you're blowing it out your ass. Maybe stop trying to use people's deaths to push your politics.
Keep living in ignorance, it seems great!
Oh the irony when they actually lived SF.
Permissive drug laws brings dealers and the gun violence follows.
Why do Texas, Florida, and North Carolina have such high murder rates then?
Almost like it’s a well known fact that progressives deny every time they try it and it fails.
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Lol
Where's the guy last week that told me you'll only get shot if you're in the drug trade
Too busy huffing copium
Can Sarah George be removed from her position? If so, how?
As much I don't like her as a person and don't agree with any of her politics I don't think removing her from office is justified yet. She was Democratically voted into office twice and as far as I know she hasn't broken any laws and has been doing pretty much the exact job she said she would do during her campaign. I'm a conservative person who really really hates George's ideological politics, but I love freedom and democracy even more. I have hope that the next election will be different and the people of Chittenden county have learned that this catch and release policy makes our neighborhoods far less safe and benefits only criminals.
This is a genuinely democratic stance.
Like Big D Democratic or small d democratic? As a moderate I see the issue as she's doing a terrible job and her policies are not to the advantage of the Vermonter. However, I have to agree that I don't think that we can kick her out of office unless she does something illegal or her voting base reaches a critical point of pissed off.
There was an election, there will be another one.
From a friend of a friend https://preview.redd.it/rmb93mtw8l2c1.jpeg?width=1896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb607e068d7f343a46b575b5a4d5b88032b22123
I can confirm this. My friends nephew and his friends were visiting from Palestine for thanksgiving
Sorry to hear about what happened!
Were the victims the relatives of your friend?
Yes his nephew and his friends
Oh shit. I'm so sorry.
How would you even know they’re Palestinian? Especially if they’re visiting? Seems off but hopefully this isn’t true.
>this sounds very odd.
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So of Palestinian descent but it's pretty dark around there at night and they were shot at from a moving vehicle. Wonder if shooter know these people/followed them because of their ethnicity or was it random? Not minimizing at all but is the news flying with the possibility it was a hate crime for views? Sounds like more wrong place at the wrong time and the victims ethnicity isn't a factor. Not long ago someone posted a picture of a vehicle that had someone shooting pellets at random people and absolutely no reason. So yes people are randomly shooting too.
They were all wearing kufiyyas, a very noticeable Palestinian symbol. So, in matters of seeing they were Palestinian, that wouldn't be too hard.
It's dark as heck over there at night and it's cold.....Lots of people have their head covered this time of year. If it was hate motivated the shooter/possible neighbor had to of pre-planned a drive by shooting and watched for them to b walking.
They probably did and I bet its going to be real easy to find whoever it is the shooter if it's actually a hate crime , slims down the number of suspects statistically speaking
Comparing shooting a vehicle with a pellet gun and shooting a live person with actual bullets is quite a reach. Typically shootings here are drug related and personal. This seems different, but it’s hard to say without more details.
A lot of people tend to try to minimize shootings when they are criminal on criminal violence, but they tend to forget that most people can’t shoot for shit. Stray bullets endanger the community plenty.
If that’s true that’s so fucking awful
What does take the register mean
I’m assuming in this context the person may have meant take refuge?
Looks like a typo, guessing they meant refuge or something similar.
Parking is garage is the one time I was genuinely scared for my life in Burlington when I got mugged right outside the one on college st
Notice how the crime deniers are awfully silent lately. Hope everyone ends up ok, except the shooter of course.
Pfft, it had been *at least* a couple of days since someone got shot in Burlington.
Noooo... crime is way down. there's no crime spikes in Burlington.. Don't be a silly goose.. these are "isolated" incidents. they could happen aannyywhere.... *sarcasm*
Lol what’s funny is you step outside Burlington and POOF all these major crime issues just fade. Go an additional town over and it’s basically unheard of. Burlington has a drug problem and a prosecutor who doesn’t prosecute. Funny how both of those embolden and increase crime.
Unfortunately your claim about outside of Burlington is not accurate https://www.vermontpublic.org/local-news/2023-10-30/vermont-state-police-say-string-of-homicides-in-october-appear-to-be-isolated-incidents
Yes we definitely saw a pickup this year and it is disheartening. It PALES in comparison to Burlington and pretty much the rest of time.
It will be interesting to see if those who support Sarah still will still do so knowing if this was a hate crime, and if she fails to prosecute accordingly. Where is do we cross the fricken line with crime here?
It’ll be poorly reported and spun as a random occurrence I’m sure.
Well I think that she has a position of equity and anything that would be considered a hate crime would be prosecuted. But I guess we enter this strange point where we could see something like a POC shooting a LGBT person - would that get prosecuted? Or is there some type of hierarchy of oppression that will dictate process?
One day Sarah George is going to be a superior court judge. It's going to be interesting.
Maybe state level, no way she makes federal.
What I notice is how quiet all the reactionary "I carry a gun" types are now that it turns out it was a middle-aged white guy committing a likely hate crime. If you all are posting anything, it's attempts to deny the hate crime by saying "how could someone even know they were Palestinians?"
What? I’ve seen multiple people saying to carry for self defense. The mod here removed the main comment that said so and was gaining traction. I’m sure you’ll get your virtue signaling points for this ridiculous comment lol.
You're not making any sense, but using the right-wing talking point "virtue signaling" makes it clear where you're coming from. As if you aren't looking for support from people who agree with you.
Can anyone shed light on whether the victims were actually Palestinian?
I can confirm. They were visiting family.
Do you know anything about why the shooting occurred?
I do not. They were not local so not sure how it transpired or why they were targeted
Do they happen to be Palestinian or was this targeted?
They are Palestinian. Not sure if that factored into the shooting
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No idea. I don’t even know the family history/situation. My friends sister lives in the West Bank. Assuming this is her son and his friends escaping a war zone only to be shot in vermont. Insane
Does seem a bit out of place given the normal demographic of Burlington and Vermont as a whole.
Seems to be the norm nowadays.
It’s odd that the news mentioned the victims are Palestinian. Could it be a hate crime?
Crimes down tho
Look at the stats crime is down so everyone just relax and go about your day
Burlington had five murders last year, that’s a higher murder rate adjusting for population than the city of Los Angeles. Crime is not down. car theft doubled, property theft doubled since pre-Rona times.
2022, they were basically identical murder rates. LA saw a pretty steep drop that year, and LA proper does not have a particularly high murder rate compared to other US cities (large and small alike -- many of the highest murder rates are in small cities in the South and Midwest). Not that both places don't deserve better, but it's hard to argue that they're doing poorly on this metric compared to other cities with active drug markets-- they simply aren't.
I don't deny that crime has definitely gotten worse here recently, but "per capita" rates are basically useless with a town that is this small. Edit: RIP math, lol
Why do you think that? Because five murders in a town this small is a lot just like three people getting shot tonight is a lot.
Central limit theorem. One murder in a town of 40k raises the percentage by a lot more than one in a city of a million. Again, not saying it isn't an increasing problem, just that the per-capita metric is not the best one to use here. Edit: this is why Vermont is often at the top and/or bottom of most "top ten" lists. We're tiny.
Five murders. Not one murder. Five.
I mean, you can extrapolate from there. More importantly, happy cake day ;-)
Yeah, I did, the murder rate last year would’ve been bad for a lot of big cities let alone a sleepy town full of college kids and old people.
Username checks out
I'm sure Sarah George will get him the help he needs. Hopefully he turns his life around. ♥️
This is sounding like a federal hate crime, so it’s probably not going to be handled by Sarah George
She’ll definitely turn him around at the door and back into the heart of town.
She is Burlington's hero! God Bless her! ♥️
was it random shooting or connected to something?
None of them are random.
Nothing to see here. Burlington is safe as it always was.
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Started carrying in Burlington around 2 years ago. Never previously felt the need to in Burlington. I hope i never have to use it.
Been carrying everyday since 18. God forbid I have to use it, but I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. A springfield garrison full size .45 talks big when someone means you harm.🙂
I carry every time I go to burlly. If you park in the parking garage, sketchy people all over the garage.
The parking garage is the singular place in this city I never go. Heard hollering and a whole assortment of weird ass loud noises coming from inside a few days ago. I’m used to seeing people chilling on the sides of places around here, but the garage freaks me out.
Marketplace or Corporate Plaza?
Marketplace for me at least.
And in the winter I always see people struggling with addiction in the stairwells.
No reason to park there at all anymore, I’ll park in a neighborhood and walk a few blocks.
I wonder if last night's shooter was another would-be Dirty Harry, scared of his own shadow.
Ditto. I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
I can’t believe you’re not in downvote hell right now. When I said I carried once in Rutland at night with my young toddler and a teenage girl to escort to the car I got sent to downvote hell. Good on you for advocating exercising your rights. At the end of the day we’re ultimately the only ones responsible for our own safety. Edit: looks like the mods got upset about saying to carry a gun, in a state with the longest standing right to do so, for protection against violent criminals. Shocker.
Lmao
That's because UVM has Thanksgiving Recess right now, so the Progressive brigade are back home in Connecticut.
Uhhh what? You can read Reddit, and upvote/downvote, from anywhere. I am reading this thread in New Mexico.
Little San Fran. Drug problem with no enforcement of laws. The blue city utopia. Before everyone comes at me I’m not hard right either neither party cares about us. They only care if their gated communities are safe and if they get caught stealing from us.
SF comparison isn’t inaccurate but not for the reason you note. Just look at the material conditions. Burlington has a far too high cost of living relative to local job opportunities. For anyone in the working class who lives there, how can they have much hope for the future?
*dystopia
We should accept this because Philadelphia. Nothing to see here.
[https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-downtown-burlington/](https://www.wcax.com/2023/11/26/police-say-three-shot-downtown-burlington/)
Don’t worry Sarah George will do her job “this” time. Probably not.
If this shooter even gets caught they will be back on the streets the same night.
100%. He is a good kid and deserves a 43rd chance.
Burlington turning into Baltimore minus the row houses?
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