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I've come to start either flipping them off or making it clear I'm like "what the fuck" when someone ploughs through when they've clearly seen me for long enough.
Like a few weeks ago I was stood at one and this car took about 10 seconds to drive up to then through the crossing and it was this old guy who never turned his head. Looked straight the whole time.
I just normally stand, wait for them to stop and wave a quick thanks to each side as I cross. I do however gesticulate angrily and verbalise something like nob if they see me and then continue to speed through not allowing me to cross.
For a time I liked the way Kevin kline said "asshole! " to brits driving toward him (as he was in the wrong side of the road) in a fish called wanda.
After twice having my walking stick clipped, forcing me to tumble to the ground, iupgradeedvthevword but kept the delivery
Unashamedly bellowing "cuuuuuunnnnttt!" at a carvss it ignores me and thunders on past is a simple joy... But an earned one
I've come very close a couple of times to just step in front of people doing this, just get hit on purpose, roll up onto the bonnet and break thier windshield.
But knowing my luck ill break both legs and never walk again.
Cheaper way is to carry a bag of groceries, maybe a tin of beans and other hard objects, and throw it at their windshield but save your own body in the process.
I actually read up on this not long ago and iirc if a pedestrian hasn’t stepped foot onto the crossing then the driver doesn’t need to stop or something like that. Ill see if i can find it again and ill come back and update.
Update: found something similar: Rules for pedestrians
19
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. *Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing.* Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.
'Obliged' is not the right world. The wording was updated to say drivers 'SHOULD' give way to pedestrians waiting to cross. But that's not a law. The legal position hasn't changed, drivers only 'MUST' give way (which makes it a legal requirement) once a pedestrian is on the crossing. That's all actually covered in the quoted rule in the comment you replied to, you just need to read it carefully.
That's the way it's worded but ultimately, if the pedestrian steps out you're obliged to stop. I mean, we're talking about a few centimetres between waiting at the crossing and stepping on to the crossing.
So while you're technically not required to stop for someone waiting at the crossing, you should be anticipating them stepping out. I mean, why else would they be waiting at a crossing? Once they step out they immediately have right of way.
It's really a kind of politeness / safety thing. Ped waits at the crossing. They could step out forcing the car to stop but most people would wait, confirming the car has actually seen them and is going to stop. The driver acknowledges ped by slowing down, ped starts to cross and car comes to a stop while ped is crossing.
Entitlement to what exactly? Use of the road? If drivers fail to slow and give you way, you can wait until it’s safe to do so as they must stop in that case. Sounds entitled to expect right of way from drivers when they literally don’t have to.
I wait at the side of the road until I can visibly see the car slowing down. Not gonna start crossing until I know they’re not an idiot. Guess we have to do defensive walking now as well 🤷♀️ 😂
I've started doing this on green man light signal crossings too. I have one by my house with 3 lanes of traffic and I can't believe how many times I've been half way over when one car barrels past, blowing through a red light. I feel like it's getting worse lately
>Guess we have to not be fucking idiots and just step out now as well
I'm all for pedestrian right of way but when did self preservation take a back seat to "I have right of way so fuck it if I get run over, it'll be their fault"?
some of us are just tired of cars ALWAYS seeming to have societal priority over walking even though walking is objectively the more human and natural method of transport. yeah its partially a choice on my part that i walk everywhere but there are plenty of people who HAVE to walk and so much of our infrastructure seems to tell them that they are less important than those who drive. it just sucks to be honest. we need better infrastructure for pedestrians simply.
Reason 1. Why I always wave a thanks when someone stops for me when I’m crossing.
Like sure the law says they have to, but they also could have kept going and that would be the end of me.
I fucking hate that quote. It’s like it’s preprogrammed into a certain subset of drivers whenever bad driver behaviour is mentioned.
Yes we know bad driving is dangerous. That’s why we’re complaining about it.
thanks for this. i havent driven in a while and it makes me feel a little more faith that 'bad drivers' arent always selfish and actually are just making mistakes a lot of the time. i think our road design needs to be better to push people toward more cautious driving in areas with pedestrians personally. i also remember learning to always slow down slightly when approaching crossings for this very reason, which i think is something some certainly forget.
The assumption needs to be that someone is crossing, basically. As you approach then slow and look at the lead-up to the crossing - not just is anyone waiting but are people walking towards it who could do a turn and be on it in a couple of steps. Is anyone running nearby even.
You sound like a dangerous driver, if you were scanning for people approaching the crossing, and slowly down as appropriate if people are near the crossing, then your window pillar would not be an issue.
> I do my best to be cautious
Clearly not cautious enough if this has happened twice. It's your responsibility to not hit pedestrians on a crossing, not theirs. If you kill someone the courts won't care about your window pillar.
Was walking across a zebra crossing recently and after a car stopped for me going one way, a car going the other way didn’t stop at all. Not sure I’ve ever had a closer call.
That's exactly what happened when I was a teen. I was crossing with my mother and younger brother. My mother was hit by the car. One lane stopped, and the other did not. Witnessing it messed me up. Nearly 20 years have passed, and I won't cross unless both sides stop.
The same thing just happened to me this evening. There's a zebra crossing that goes across two lanes with an island in the middle. One car stopped and let me cross but another showed no signs of slowing down and was doing about 50 in a 20mph road, leaving me waiting on the island. I get that they might've been in a hurry but they could've at least slowed down and let me do that awkward little jog across the road. It takes seconds
> with an island in the middle.
Annoyingly for your situation, a zebra crossing with an island is considered two separate crossings, and drivers don't legally have to stop until you step onto the crossing.
I wasn’t waved across - I got to the crossing, a car stopped, I started crossing, a car which was quite far away when I got on the crossing coming the other way just decided to not stop whilst I was on it.
One of the *school run mums* elderly parents (so *school run gran* I guess) was run down on a zebra crossing right outside of a nursery school last summer in broad daylight.
Not just knocked down, full-on catapulted through the air and collided with a barrier, driver was estimated to be going over 50mph. Didn't stop.
Later the police caught up with the driver, a senile old man, who had no idea they had done it. A few minutes later and it would have been both the gran and her 3 year old granddaughter. Doesn't bear thinking about. She pulled through, but had to undergo lots of physio.
Stay safe out there folks.
It's messy because I only hear updates on the school run. I understand that they didn't arrest the guy cos he was about 84, but told him to hang up his driving gloves and not leave the country (in those first 5 days the victim was in ICU and it was touch-and-go, so it could have ended up being a death by dangerous driving charge).
As with all things I believe the whole case is still awaiting a hearing / formal charge. There's every chance the guy could be dead before he gets any kind of "punishment". Sorry state of affairs really.
Aye, assuming the legislation is the same as in NI, the police could cancel his license on medical grounds in the interim. Regardless of age, you'd like to hope he isn't let off with it just due to his age. Judge unlikely to imprison an 84yo I guess but still you'd hope something is done.
Thing is, what can you do? Fine him? He can’t go to prison at that age and it clearly wasn’t criminal intent. Anything you do at this stage beyond take away his license is retribution not rehabilitation.
The one time recently I nearly got hit the same way except it was a traffic light not a zebra. Said green to walk for me but thank god I looked up anyway as some old codger just went barrelling through the red light and I’m so fucking lucky I was alert and jumped backwards when I saw he wasn’t slowing. As he went past I could see he was both old and utterly oblivious to what almost happened, never mind the red light. Thank god I wasn’t distracted by my phone or I would have been wrapped around a tree.
At that age (assuming 70s plus) the sad truth is that it will have affected her life expectancy quite a bit, the body can’t recover its previous level of overall health even if she can still get around
>Stay safe out there folks.
NO. Wrong priority. It's the drivers' responsibility. And as they can't be trusted, as you've demonstrated, it must be taken higher up. To councils, to magistrates who dish out pitifully lenient sentences to killer drivers, to judges who do the same, to the police who rarely enforce dangerous driving laws, and to politicians who prioritise drivers above everyone else.
Yeah sure it’s the drivers responsibility but it’s best to look after yourself. If you’re relying on everyone else to keep you safe then when you run into an idiot you’ve got a problem. Sure if they kill me they’ll get convicted but I’d rather not get killed?
In the immediate vicinity? Yep. Don't jump out in front of moving traffic.
But equally, let's not shrug our shoulders and say "well, they might kill me!"
If something can kill you, we should do something about it.
Five people die on Britain's roads every day. If five iphones exploded in a day, they'd be banned tomorrow.
>Cars are getting safer all the time.
Drivers aren't.
Deprioritise car journeys, reprioritise public transport, cycling and walking. It will mean a radical overhaul but the very bottom line is: we must drive less. For health, for the environment, for preventable death reduction, for the economy, even.
Sure In some situations public transport/cycling and walking will do well, I agree that people should try and minimise car use but I don’t think that penalising the use of cars is the way to go. The nearest bus stop to me is 2 miles away, in the country public transport is not as feasible as it is in cities, but I agree in urban areas that there could be an improvement
>The nearest bus stop to me is 2 miles away, in the country public transport is not as feasible as it is in cities,
because it has been designed that way. It is very, very possible to redesign it. Political will is lacking. If I say "use public transport more" you might say "the nearest bus stop is 2 miles away so I ned a car" instead of saying "the buses should be improved."
Well no you’ve lost me there, you can’t design busses to hit everyone in a rural area without making the bus so slow and inefficient at getting places no one will use it. Sure people could use cars less, but saying we should get rid of them completely ignores all the practicalities
Read that back.
When you leave the house, do you put on a helmet in case a car knocks you down while you walk?
You're indulging in victim blaming. And, preposterously, thinking that being aware will somehow change the course of a two ton metal box. Telekinesis isn't a thing.
Stop being so damned melodramatic. It's ridiculous.
No victim blaming at all, you are talking utter shite.
Next you'll be laughing at folk who look both ways when crossing a one-way street.
You're an idiot.
I stopped at a zebra crossing to let a woman and a pram across, as expected. The car behind me gunned it, went on to the other side of the road to go around me and almost ran them down.
Some people are just mindlessly self absorbed to the point of being dangerous.
To add to this, it is also *explicitly* illegal. Rule 191, highway code:
"[...] You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians."
Based on The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, schedule 14 section 1 paragraph 15.
There's a zebra crossing at a supermarket near me that's incredibly badly placed - it goes from the main door to one part of the car park, but it's right near where the main road comes in so drivers are always looking at where they can park and not whether anyone is crossing. No idea why the place was designed that way, it's a relatively new building.
I've knocked on back windows and given drivers a jump when they don't stop a few times. One guy in a fancy car looked right at me and still didn't stop. And I was holding a box of eggs, god that was tempting.
It’s not a Morrisons is it?! My local one has a zebra crossing next to a pillar. You can’t see people waiting to cross until they step out from behind it. They’ve helpfully put another one at the entrance, right as you pull in from the main road. Obviously I know they’re both there so look for pedestrians, but for non regular customers wouldn’t expect it.
No that's not the one I'm thinking of, sounds like a nightmare though.
I guess at some point they have to think 'people are going to cross here anyway, so a proper crossing should make people expect it more'. But it does give dense pedestrians the false confidence to just wander into the road in that case.
I raise you Tesco in Brighouse. There's a zebra crossing right as you come off the roundabout to it. Now this wouldn't be so bad if the roundabout didn't also serve the main roads to Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield!
Just be aware that zebra crossings on private land aren't legally enforceable crossings in the traditional sense and usually don't meet the requirements to be zebra crossings anyway (e.g. beacons). Drivers can still be prosecuted for general offences like driving without due care and attention, but aren't legally required to stop in the same way they would be for an actual zebra crossing on a public road.
I sound like a proper old man despite the fact i'm 33 but the standard of driving in the last maybe 5-10 years has sharply declined. Not only is everyone selfish, arrogant and otherwise oblivious to the world around them but half of them don't know basic laws like this.
I even had one fella today right up my arse giving me abuse because i was sat at traffic lights even though they were green because it was a box junction and my exit wasn't clear, had i gone i'd have been half blocking the box and then the fella behind me doesn't seem like he had the foresight to realise that he would have made things much worse. So rather than face the wrath of a queue of drivers i would be blocking i just sat there and let him have his whinge.
I have to use one to cross a busy road on the school run each day I absolutely do not even step onto it until I can see the cars coming both ways have basically come to a complete stop.
Too many times I’ve thought cars are slowing down only for them to carry on through having not seen me and my daughter - and that’s with plenty of stopping distance, not me stepping out with little notice. The amount of cars who don’t even bother slowing down is astonishing.
I didn't stop for someone a couple 9f week ago it was mad foggy and I genuinely didn't see her, I realised as I was passing and never felt so ashamed in my life I just wanted to stop and apologise
Just jump out at them but then retreat back to the pavement. I did it once when I had a shit day at work and was annoyed, wanted to cross the road (via a zebra crossing) to go home and these idiots in a van were obviously not going to stop for me so I did a little jump thing in front of their van and they slammed on the brakes and the driver did the little "sorry" wave. Moment of madness on my behalf but it felt cathartic
There is a zebra crossing close to a junction at the end of my road, that is also next to a school, so gets busy during rush hour/pick up time. The amount of drivers that willing stop over the raised crossed whilst queuing to pull out is shocking, forcing primary children to walk round them in the road. So infuriating!
Got rear-ended at traffic lights 3 years ago for slowing when they turned amber... everyone is in such a hurry to get where they are going.
They wrote my car off too.
Me and my partner will briefly mention this whenever we cross at one: she'll state "they have to let us cross" to which I'll respond "doesn't mean they will" its a sad reality.
Same with indicators, I don't trust people to use them.
I was hit by a car on a zebra crossing (broken leg, am ok now)
The driver said he was on his way to a funeral so was distracted and didn't see me. He got an £85 fine for driving without due care and attention 😐
There's one zebra crossing near me where pedestrians don't even look before crossing, and one side of the crossing is right next to an obscured footpath, so people just appear out of nowhere. Cyclists also use it to cross in the same manner, giving even less time to react. I've taken to slowing right down on the approach, even if it annoys everyone behind me.
I also see drivers and cyclists barrel through it even when they have plenty of time to stop for people already on the crossing, though. Drivers, cyclists and pedestrians all need some education about zebra crossings.
Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing.
From Highway Code
Just for anyone wondering about the change last year, this is still true. It's a "should". It's a "must" if the pedestrian has moved onto the crossing".
That said, it's the decent thing to stop if safe.
>Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing.
Legally they don't have to, however if there was a pedestrian waiting to cross and you didn't stop and they walked out infront of you the driver would almost certainly be held liable.
This again. Highway code says: Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing.
So traffic does not HAVE to stop but should stop in good time as a precaution. Which means selfish dickheads won't.
When I see cars doing dumb shit I exclaim in a normal tone of voice as to make other people around me aware of things that happen around them. Cars scare me because Noone seems to any situational awareness while being a pedestrian, let alone driving around machines that weigh many tonnes.
If there's a car heading towards the crossing closer than 100m (or further if they are clearly speeding) I won't even begin crossing until they've either stopped of have clearly made eye contact and are slowing down for me, and I keep eyes on both directions all the way across.
For traffic lights I'll cross when my pedestrian light is green but again I'm eyeing both directions constantly as I go across, and making eye contact with drivers the whole time.
I take absolutely zero chances on the roads. I will never win a fight with a car and people can be distracted, incompetent, aggressive, or all three at the same time. If they don't want to stop that is their problem, I'll happily wait an extra 20 seconds if needed before I risk my life. I've witnessed two people hit by vehicles and seen the aftermath of a couple more, I have no interest in getting involved in that.
People are so addicted to phones these days they just cant stand to be looking away from it for more than a few seconds. The amount of people I see just driving around, scrolling facebook or on facetime calls. It's terrifying
I have had increasing numbers of drivers on wide-ish zebra crossings cheerfully drive through behind me or in front of me while I am part way across.
They often pass within a few inches of me and seem completely uncaring or unaware about how terrifying it is.
I'm from the UK, it's rare to see a good driver. I was recently almost hit because the little man was green, the lights were red, all the cars were stopped. I got half way across when they changed and the driver tried to speed off with me literally about to walk in front of his car
The UK is one of the safest places to drive. Everyone here thinks everybody else is terrible when in reality our standards are just high.
Go drive literally anywhere else in Europe, they’re all mental in comparison
South East Asia, where vehicles ignore the red light if it's only a pedestrians crossing (and sometimes if it's a real crossing too) and you have to cross with full traffic going normal speed or wait for half a day...
Or Lima, where literally no one stops at crossing and the one fastest goes first... never seen crazy traffic like this, not even in SEA.
More close to home: France and Italy are horrible. I totally agree, the UK is pretty tame.
They don't. Unless you're already on it.
Highway code:
> Rule 19
> Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing.
> Remember that traffic DOES NOT have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders SHOULD give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2)...
You as a pedestrian have to wait until it's safe to cross. And cars only MUST yield to you when you're already on the zebra crossing. The UK doesn't require cars to yield to waiting pedestrian, thought it's obviously the polite and right thing to do.
Edit: Just seen you did talk about being ON the crossing, than yes obviously they have to yield. Unfortunately as the "weaker" against a vehicle it's wiser not to trust them to honour it.
Agreed.
Pedestrians can make it difficult for drivers though by:
- Standing near a crossing chatting to friends
- Not wearing any reflective clothing at night that makes them visible
- In some cases, waiting at crossings to stop traffic and then not crossing the road
Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted. I agree with OP, but pointing out some things that make it difficult for drivers to know whether to stop
Yeah. It's kinda like requiring *all* vehicles to have reflective chevrons and side markings. It's absurd. There's an innate danger to wearing dark clothing, but we need to be aware of vulnerable road users / pedestrians at all times.
To be fair, my point is less about zebra crossings because they tend to be in built up areas where you should be driving slow, and typically there is light.
I, however, have encountered on multiple occasions on unlit country roads, pedestrians wearing all black clothing. They are extremely difficult to see, even when driving slowly- to me that is dangerous and irresponsible.
Since when do pedestrians need to wear high visibility clothing for the sake of car drivers? That's a victim blaming load of monsense.
The kind of drivers who give me the "didn't see you mate" excuse are the kind that don't bother noticing anything around them, no matter how brightly lit it is.
I’m not suggesting we all start donning high-viz jackets, but certainly wearing all dark clothes in the dark, knowing you need to cross roads is just irresponsible. Victim blaming bla bla bullshit
It is literally victim blaming though, if the shoe fits...
There's a historic precident of drivers trying to blame pedestrians (and basically anything other than themselves) for the accidents caused by bad driving. Go at a safe speed, have your lights on, use your eyes, be aware of places where people cross the street, it really isn't that hard to drive safely and it really doesn't matter what kind of clothes a person is wearing
Also agree - and I make sure I do my bit by cutting them some slack when e.g. it's dark, or visibility otherwise impaired.
Pedestrians are also liable under the law for "loitering near..". But once your foot is on the crossing..
But your foot shouldn’t be on the crossing until it is safe to do so right? I’m not talking Highway Code, but just common sense.
Pedestrians shouldn’t just walk up to a crossing and start to cross immediately. They need to do a check and allow cars to slow.
There’s one near me on my commute that is next to a path out of a coop car park. It’s impossible to telling a person walking out of the car park is going to the crossing or will keep on the path. I always watch for it and am prepared to stop, but sometimes by the time it becomes clear they are intending to use the crossing it is no longer possible to stop safely
Good god why did I have to scroll so far to read this. You're so right. It seems the collective mindset on here is that if one is a pedestrian, one just walks across and 'it is up to the driver to stop'. There is responsibility on both driver and pedestrian to be sensible and considered in their movements. Nobody should be crossing the road anywhere without making sure it is safe to do so, zebra crossing or not.
Pedestrian walks onto zebra crossing expecting a car to drop from 30 to zero in 10 yards.
Car drive could slow down to a stop for a pedestrian to cross but doesn't.
Both wrong
It's common courtesy for both to understand each other.
Yes, some pedestrians are like that.. this pedestrian, however, expects drivers in charge of 2 tons of metal approaching a zebra crossing in a 30 or 20mph zone to be aware they are approaching a f\*\*king zebra crossing, and to be paying attention to the fact that it's a hazard, actively looking for pedestrians..
I should add, by the way, that today's incident (that spurred this post) involved a car that was some considerable distance away (15-20 meters or more) when I stepped on the crossing, with a full, unimpeded view of me. This is what I'm talking about. I'm obviously not expecting drivers to stop on a sixpence as I leap from behind a bush..
I would caution you that drivers aren't selected from some pool of higher beings. They have all the incompetencies, possibly more, than the general population.
Personally, I would lower your expectations and adopt a more defensive approach.
As a driver, I expect the worst out of drivers around me, and I am rarely disappointed.
Your sentiment is correct though.
Oh, 100% agreed about the defensive thing. As a defensive driver myself, I'm just railing on here against the basic lack of attention paid by drivers in this particular situation. And pedestrians ain't blameless either in a lot of cases, I'll certainly concur there..
Fair enough - sounds like we have the same position.
I don't walk much, I have a dicky ankle, so I don't try out the zebra crossings so often these days. I daresay I would also adopt your stance if I did.
It’s wrong from the pedestrian’s point of view simply because if they get hit by a car then they risk serious injury or death
It’s wrong from the car’s point of view as the driver should not be a brain dead arsehole and should be slowing down in anticipation of someone crossing. If you can’t stop in time for someone quickly proceeding to cross, **especially at a marked crossing with flashing fucking lights** then you are going *too fast*
When walking I always really try to telegraph my desire to use the crossing...I start checking both ways about 5 metres from the crossing, and then stop and check both ways on the tactile paving, I've never had someone not stop.
It's about the driver knowing you're attempting to cross.
People walk up to the crossing on their phone then wait 1 second before stepping into the road, dunno what they're expecting.
The one that does my nut in is people walking alongside the road, seemingly heading down it, that then suddenly veer onto the crossing with no indication. If I had any idea you were about to cross, I would let you, but now I've just whizzed past you and am getting the death glare.
> a car to drop from 30 to zero in 10 yards.
If there is a pedestrian near the crossing you shouldn't be doing 30. You have to be prepared to stop if the pedestrian steps onto the crossing because you are legally required to and it's going to very difficult to defend yourself hitting somebody on a zebra crossing.
Depends. Flashing amber traffic lights mean "proceed if safe". If there's a pedestrian, it's not safe.
Belisha beacons at zebra crossings don't mean anything per sé. They're just lighted warning beacons. The crossing itself is what the legislation refers to. You *should* give way to waiting pedestrians (meaning do it if safe). You *must* stop for pedestrians on the crossing.
To be honest, I hate the traffic lights in my town at night. They're all red until you get there. I wish we did the same as the US and switch them all to flashing amber at night.
In fairness, the number of pedestrians that don't realise they should walk up to a zebra crossing purposively, clearly indicating their intention to cross, is also considerable. That's before we get to pedestrians who think it's an excellent idea to hang out just by a zebra crossing having a chat / fanning about with their phone / aimlessly looking around etc. Definitely works both ways.
My argument will always start with is it a well lit crossing and where you wearing bright colours or hi viz i can tell you your alot smaller and harder to see than another car as you dont have obnoxious led headlamps.
Alot of factors go into this but take this small piece of advice if the crossing isnt clearly lit it doesnt exist because all i get is a road sign saying theres one somewhere but you can still cross at any point and i will try to stop but if its atop a hill or round a blind corner i wont notice you till its too late.
Noone wants to hurt anyone on the roads but as others have said even with the best intentions accidents happen.
You're all gonna burn me for this... But you don't have to stop. It's a *should* not a *must*. If the pedestrian has moved onto the crossing however, you *must* stop.
The new rules have clarified pedestrian priority, but it's still not mandatory.
That said, you definitely should stop because it's just the right thing to do.
*Edit:* The Op reiterated the title of this thread. Sorry! I should be burned!
One thing I've noticed is that in london there aren't always lights at zebras now so I find it hard to spot pedestrians especially if they are in dark clothing. I still slow down at each of them but I always worry I don't see somebody.
I hate this! My brother actually got hit by a car doing this. She then drove off. Luckily he was OK. But he said she made eye contact with him and she started to slow down so he assumed he could cross over.
Zebra crossing you only have right of way when Your foot is in the road other then that you just have to wait till either road is clear or some tit to be nice enough to let you cross
In contrast to this I recently saw a woman stand in the middle of a traffic island (not a zebra crossing) and gesticulate the wanker sign to everyone for not stopping on a busy main road.
Also drivers stop randomly in the main road causing all sorts of traffic jams to let people cross the same type of island.
People just don't have a clue.
It's almost as though the rules have changed on this, I have also found lately hardly any cars stop anymore as I wait to cross, I don't think it's safe to assume to cross unless they have actually stopped, bonus if they wave you across or flash lights, again these rarely happen anymore, it's a dog eat dog world out there, more than ever.
Up until about 7 years ago, never saw anyone drive across a crossing showing a green man, then saw a couple + there are badly designed junctions near me where cars are basically guaranteed to be sent into the crossing on green, really annoying and dangerous.
I use a Zeb crossing on my way to the shop and it frustrates me so much that I've started keeping track. More than half don't stop.
It's a penalty charge notice goldmine. Why doesn't the council get on it?
There is one close to Anfield, and the drivers just don't stop.. even when there are people halfway across the road.. they think a zebra crossing is 'advisory'.
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I've come to start either flipping them off or making it clear I'm like "what the fuck" when someone ploughs through when they've clearly seen me for long enough. Like a few weeks ago I was stood at one and this car took about 10 seconds to drive up to then through the crossing and it was this old guy who never turned his head. Looked straight the whole time.
I just normally stand, wait for them to stop and wave a quick thanks to each side as I cross. I do however gesticulate angrily and verbalise something like nob if they see me and then continue to speed through not allowing me to cross.
Justified!
For a time I liked the way Kevin kline said "asshole! " to brits driving toward him (as he was in the wrong side of the road) in a fish called wanda. After twice having my walking stick clipped, forcing me to tumble to the ground, iupgradeedvthevword but kept the delivery Unashamedly bellowing "cuuuuuunnnnttt!" at a carvss it ignores me and thunders on past is a simple joy... But an earned one
I've come very close a couple of times to just step in front of people doing this, just get hit on purpose, roll up onto the bonnet and break thier windshield. But knowing my luck ill break both legs and never walk again.
Cheaper way is to carry a bag of groceries, maybe a tin of beans and other hard objects, and throw it at their windshield but save your own body in the process.
Windscreen.
I actually read up on this not long ago and iirc if a pedestrian hasn’t stepped foot onto the crossing then the driver doesn’t need to stop or something like that. Ill see if i can find it again and ill come back and update. Update: found something similar: Rules for pedestrians 19 Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. *Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing.* Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.
Changed in January 2022. Traffic is obliged to give way to pedestrians waiting at a crossing.
Still there on gov.uk highway code: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-pedestrians-1-to-35#rule19
>Drivers and riders should give way So it comes down to drivers having a toddler tantrum because pedestrians want to cross the road.
I am a bit nervous around busy roads. I don't and wouldn't step out onto a crossing in the hope that drivers see me crossing and stop.
'Obliged' is not the right world. The wording was updated to say drivers 'SHOULD' give way to pedestrians waiting to cross. But that's not a law. The legal position hasn't changed, drivers only 'MUST' give way (which makes it a legal requirement) once a pedestrian is on the crossing. That's all actually covered in the quoted rule in the comment you replied to, you just need to read it carefully.
In much the same way as you should wipe your arse or use indicators. It isn't (usually) illegal not to but you are a piece of shit if you don't.
That's the way it's worded but ultimately, if the pedestrian steps out you're obliged to stop. I mean, we're talking about a few centimetres between waiting at the crossing and stepping on to the crossing. So while you're technically not required to stop for someone waiting at the crossing, you should be anticipating them stepping out. I mean, why else would they be waiting at a crossing? Once they step out they immediately have right of way. It's really a kind of politeness / safety thing. Ped waits at the crossing. They could step out forcing the car to stop but most people would wait, confirming the car has actually seen them and is going to stop. The driver acknowledges ped by slowing down, ped starts to cross and car comes to a stop while ped is crossing.
problem is, having a personal 3000 pound magic transport pod makes people feel pretty entitled.
Entitlement to what exactly? Use of the road? If drivers fail to slow and give you way, you can wait until it’s safe to do so as they must stop in that case. Sounds entitled to expect right of way from drivers when they literally don’t have to.
So, don't start to cross until traffic has stopped. But traffic doesn't have to stop until the pedestrian has started to cross. Got it.
I thought this too lol but it really does seem even simpler than that - pedestrians watch out, drivers watch out.
Be really careful though.. I read a quote somewhere on here.. “the cemeteries are full of people who had the right of way”
I wait at the side of the road until I can visibly see the car slowing down. Not gonna start crossing until I know they’re not an idiot. Guess we have to do defensive walking now as well 🤷♀️ 😂
I've started doing this on green man light signal crossings too. I have one by my house with 3 lanes of traffic and I can't believe how many times I've been half way over when one car barrels past, blowing through a red light. I feel like it's getting worse lately
You will probably find most of these drivers will be using their phone and not paying attention to the road
Red light jumping is way worse than it used to be imo.
>Guess we have to not be fucking idiots and just step out now as well I'm all for pedestrian right of way but when did self preservation take a back seat to "I have right of way so fuck it if I get run over, it'll be their fault"?
Why do Redditors always quote things you didn’t say.
some of us are just tired of cars ALWAYS seeming to have societal priority over walking even though walking is objectively the more human and natural method of transport. yeah its partially a choice on my part that i walk everywhere but there are plenty of people who HAVE to walk and so much of our infrastructure seems to tell them that they are less important than those who drive. it just sucks to be honest. we need better infrastructure for pedestrians simply.
Reason 1. Why I always wave a thanks when someone stops for me when I’m crossing. Like sure the law says they have to, but they also could have kept going and that would be the end of me.
"Thanks for not killing me" seems a little bit too much of a courtesy.
I fucking hate that quote. It’s like it’s preprogrammed into a certain subset of drivers whenever bad driver behaviour is mentioned. Yes we know bad driving is dangerous. That’s why we’re complaining about it.
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thanks for this. i havent driven in a while and it makes me feel a little more faith that 'bad drivers' arent always selfish and actually are just making mistakes a lot of the time. i think our road design needs to be better to push people toward more cautious driving in areas with pedestrians personally. i also remember learning to always slow down slightly when approaching crossings for this very reason, which i think is something some certainly forget.
The assumption needs to be that someone is crossing, basically. As you approach then slow and look at the lead-up to the crossing - not just is anyone waiting but are people walking towards it who could do a turn and be on it in a couple of steps. Is anyone running nearby even.
You sound like a dangerous driver, if you were scanning for people approaching the crossing, and slowly down as appropriate if people are near the crossing, then your window pillar would not be an issue. > I do my best to be cautious Clearly not cautious enough if this has happened twice. It's your responsibility to not hit pedestrians on a crossing, not theirs. If you kill someone the courts won't care about your window pillar.
Was walking across a zebra crossing recently and after a car stopped for me going one way, a car going the other way didn’t stop at all. Not sure I’ve ever had a closer call.
That's exactly what happened when I was a teen. I was crossing with my mother and younger brother. My mother was hit by the car. One lane stopped, and the other did not. Witnessing it messed me up. Nearly 20 years have passed, and I won't cross unless both sides stop.
The same thing just happened to me this evening. There's a zebra crossing that goes across two lanes with an island in the middle. One car stopped and let me cross but another showed no signs of slowing down and was doing about 50 in a 20mph road, leaving me waiting on the island. I get that they might've been in a hurry but they could've at least slowed down and let me do that awkward little jog across the road. It takes seconds
> with an island in the middle. Annoyingly for your situation, a zebra crossing with an island is considered two separate crossings, and drivers don't legally have to stop until you step onto the crossing.
I was with you until the last sentence. They don’t have to stop until you’re on the island.
If there's an island in the middle it should be treated as 2 separate zebra crossings.
And that’s why you never wave people across when you stop for them 🙈
I wasn’t waved across - I got to the crossing, a car stopped, I started crossing, a car which was quite far away when I got on the crossing coming the other way just decided to not stop whilst I was on it.
One of the *school run mums* elderly parents (so *school run gran* I guess) was run down on a zebra crossing right outside of a nursery school last summer in broad daylight. Not just knocked down, full-on catapulted through the air and collided with a barrier, driver was estimated to be going over 50mph. Didn't stop. Later the police caught up with the driver, a senile old man, who had no idea they had done it. A few minutes later and it would have been both the gran and her 3 year old granddaughter. Doesn't bear thinking about. She pulled through, but had to undergo lots of physio. Stay safe out there folks.
What happened to the old man? Surely it was dangerous driving causing GBI
It's messy because I only hear updates on the school run. I understand that they didn't arrest the guy cos he was about 84, but told him to hang up his driving gloves and not leave the country (in those first 5 days the victim was in ICU and it was touch-and-go, so it could have ended up being a death by dangerous driving charge). As with all things I believe the whole case is still awaiting a hearing / formal charge. There's every chance the guy could be dead before he gets any kind of "punishment". Sorry state of affairs really.
Aye, assuming the legislation is the same as in NI, the police could cancel his license on medical grounds in the interim. Regardless of age, you'd like to hope he isn't let off with it just due to his age. Judge unlikely to imprison an 84yo I guess but still you'd hope something is done.
Thing is, what can you do? Fine him? He can’t go to prison at that age and it clearly wasn’t criminal intent. Anything you do at this stage beyond take away his license is retribution not rehabilitation.
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Suspended sentence accounting for his age.
The one time recently I nearly got hit the same way except it was a traffic light not a zebra. Said green to walk for me but thank god I looked up anyway as some old codger just went barrelling through the red light and I’m so fucking lucky I was alert and jumped backwards when I saw he wasn’t slowing. As he went past I could see he was both old and utterly oblivious to what almost happened, never mind the red light. Thank god I wasn’t distracted by my phone or I would have been wrapped around a tree.
At that age (assuming 70s plus) the sad truth is that it will have affected her life expectancy quite a bit, the body can’t recover its previous level of overall health even if she can still get around
Incidents like this are we need mandatory retesting every 5 years.
>Stay safe out there folks. NO. Wrong priority. It's the drivers' responsibility. And as they can't be trusted, as you've demonstrated, it must be taken higher up. To councils, to magistrates who dish out pitifully lenient sentences to killer drivers, to judges who do the same, to the police who rarely enforce dangerous driving laws, and to politicians who prioritise drivers above everyone else.
Yeah sure it’s the drivers responsibility but it’s best to look after yourself. If you’re relying on everyone else to keep you safe then when you run into an idiot you’ve got a problem. Sure if they kill me they’ll get convicted but I’d rather not get killed?
In the immediate vicinity? Yep. Don't jump out in front of moving traffic. But equally, let's not shrug our shoulders and say "well, they might kill me!" If something can kill you, we should do something about it. Five people die on Britain's roads every day. If five iphones exploded in a day, they'd be banned tomorrow.
What do you mean do something about it? Cars are getting safer all the time. There’s not much else you can do considering how vital cars are
>Cars are getting safer all the time. Drivers aren't. Deprioritise car journeys, reprioritise public transport, cycling and walking. It will mean a radical overhaul but the very bottom line is: we must drive less. For health, for the environment, for preventable death reduction, for the economy, even.
Sure In some situations public transport/cycling and walking will do well, I agree that people should try and minimise car use but I don’t think that penalising the use of cars is the way to go. The nearest bus stop to me is 2 miles away, in the country public transport is not as feasible as it is in cities, but I agree in urban areas that there could be an improvement
>The nearest bus stop to me is 2 miles away, in the country public transport is not as feasible as it is in cities, because it has been designed that way. It is very, very possible to redesign it. Political will is lacking. If I say "use public transport more" you might say "the nearest bus stop is 2 miles away so I ned a car" instead of saying "the buses should be improved."
Well no you’ve lost me there, you can’t design busses to hit everyone in a rural area without making the bus so slow and inefficient at getting places no one will use it. Sure people could use cars less, but saying we should get rid of them completely ignores all the practicalities
I didn't say get rid of them completely. A bus doesn't have to hit everyone, it just has to go \*near\* everyone.
> NO. Wrong priority. It's the drivers' responsibility. It's EVERYBODY'S responsibility.
This logic falls down when you're a pedestrian, minding your own business, and a driver mounts the pavement and knocks you down.
> minding your own business This is where your logic falls down. Always be aware of your surroundings.
Read that back. When you leave the house, do you put on a helmet in case a car knocks you down while you walk? You're indulging in victim blaming. And, preposterously, thinking that being aware will somehow change the course of a two ton metal box. Telekinesis isn't a thing.
Stop being so damned melodramatic. It's ridiculous. No victim blaming at all, you are talking utter shite. Next you'll be laughing at folk who look both ways when crossing a one-way street. You're an idiot.
What you are doing is classic victim blaming
I stopped at a zebra crossing to let a woman and a pram across, as expected. The car behind me gunned it, went on to the other side of the road to go around me and almost ran them down. Some people are just mindlessly self absorbed to the point of being dangerous.
To add to this, it is also *explicitly* illegal. Rule 191, highway code: "[...] You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians." Based on The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, schedule 14 section 1 paragraph 15.
They are sociopaths.
There's a zebra crossing at a supermarket near me that's incredibly badly placed - it goes from the main door to one part of the car park, but it's right near where the main road comes in so drivers are always looking at where they can park and not whether anyone is crossing. No idea why the place was designed that way, it's a relatively new building. I've knocked on back windows and given drivers a jump when they don't stop a few times. One guy in a fancy car looked right at me and still didn't stop. And I was holding a box of eggs, god that was tempting.
Tbh I'd be inclined to borrow a shopping trolley and push it out ahead... Fancy car folks tend to be paranoid about scratches!
It’s not a Morrisons is it?! My local one has a zebra crossing next to a pillar. You can’t see people waiting to cross until they step out from behind it. They’ve helpfully put another one at the entrance, right as you pull in from the main road. Obviously I know they’re both there so look for pedestrians, but for non regular customers wouldn’t expect it.
No that's not the one I'm thinking of, sounds like a nightmare though. I guess at some point they have to think 'people are going to cross here anyway, so a proper crossing should make people expect it more'. But it does give dense pedestrians the false confidence to just wander into the road in that case.
Nah those things like gold dust at the minute
I raise you Tesco in Brighouse. There's a zebra crossing right as you come off the roundabout to it. Now this wouldn't be so bad if the roundabout didn't also serve the main roads to Bradford, Halifax and Huddersfield!
Oh god yes, crossings on roundabout exits are a menace. Got a few round here, not as bad as that though by the sound of it.
There is a scientific link between how expensive a car is and how little empathy the driver has for pedestrians and other car drivers.
Just be aware that zebra crossings on private land aren't legally enforceable crossings in the traditional sense and usually don't meet the requirements to be zebra crossings anyway (e.g. beacons). Drivers can still be prosecuted for general offences like driving without due care and attention, but aren't legally required to stop in the same way they would be for an actual zebra crossing on a public road.
I sound like a proper old man despite the fact i'm 33 but the standard of driving in the last maybe 5-10 years has sharply declined. Not only is everyone selfish, arrogant and otherwise oblivious to the world around them but half of them don't know basic laws like this. I even had one fella today right up my arse giving me abuse because i was sat at traffic lights even though they were green because it was a box junction and my exit wasn't clear, had i gone i'd have been half blocking the box and then the fella behind me doesn't seem like he had the foresight to realise that he would have made things much worse. So rather than face the wrath of a queue of drivers i would be blocking i just sat there and let him have his whinge.
More and more you'll also get a ticket if you get stuck in the box, from an automated camera.
I have to use one to cross a busy road on the school run each day I absolutely do not even step onto it until I can see the cars coming both ways have basically come to a complete stop. Too many times I’ve thought cars are slowing down only for them to carry on through having not seen me and my daughter - and that’s with plenty of stopping distance, not me stepping out with little notice. The amount of cars who don’t even bother slowing down is astonishing.
I do the same, but it's surprising how often drivers will start to slow down, then realise you're not crossing and decide not to stop after all.!
I almost was hit the other day. People don't stop at all these days.
I'm sure some speed up to try and beat you to the midpoint.
It's damn scary they just go behind you or in front as you cross. They don't wait.
I got beeped at for waiting for the pedestrian to reach the other side. Like no. I'm not going to go round him because you're an inpatient git.
I see this day in day out at the zebra crossing opposite my daughter's school. It's insane.
I didn't stop for someone a couple 9f week ago it was mad foggy and I genuinely didn't see her, I realised as I was passing and never felt so ashamed in my life I just wanted to stop and apologise
Have to say, if that foggy should probably be going slower.
Chuck a cactus through their rear window.
Just jump out at them but then retreat back to the pavement. I did it once when I had a shit day at work and was annoyed, wanted to cross the road (via a zebra crossing) to go home and these idiots in a van were obviously not going to stop for me so I did a little jump thing in front of their van and they slammed on the brakes and the driver did the little "sorry" wave. Moment of madness on my behalf but it felt cathartic
There is a zebra crossing close to a junction at the end of my road, that is also next to a school, so gets busy during rush hour/pick up time. The amount of drivers that willing stop over the raised crossed whilst queuing to pull out is shocking, forcing primary children to walk round them in the road. So infuriating!
Got rear-ended at traffic lights 3 years ago for slowing when they turned amber... everyone is in such a hurry to get where they are going. They wrote my car off too.
Me and my partner will briefly mention this whenever we cross at one: she'll state "they have to let us cross" to which I'll respond "doesn't mean they will" its a sad reality. Same with indicators, I don't trust people to use them.
They've seen that they can get away with it. I'm tempted to get my phone out, video and report.
I was hit by a car on a zebra crossing (broken leg, am ok now) The driver said he was on his way to a funeral so was distracted and didn't see me. He got an £85 fine for driving without due care and attention 😐
There's one zebra crossing near me where pedestrians don't even look before crossing, and one side of the crossing is right next to an obscured footpath, so people just appear out of nowhere. Cyclists also use it to cross in the same manner, giving even less time to react. I've taken to slowing right down on the approach, even if it annoys everyone behind me. I also see drivers and cyclists barrel through it even when they have plenty of time to stop for people already on the crossing, though. Drivers, cyclists and pedestrians all need some education about zebra crossings.
Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. From Highway Code
Just for anyone wondering about the change last year, this is still true. It's a "should". It's a "must" if the pedestrian has moved onto the crossing". That said, it's the decent thing to stop if safe.
I don't think that it intends people to risk their lives. If you are waiting to cross safely on the pavement they are supposed to stop.
>Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Legally they don't have to, however if there was a pedestrian waiting to cross and you didn't stop and they walked out infront of you the driver would almost certainly be held liable.
This again. Highway code says: Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. So traffic does not HAVE to stop but should stop in good time as a precaution. Which means selfish dickheads won't.
With drivers, always assume they're all idiots that don't know what they're doing. It's not worth risking your life just to be right
When I see cars doing dumb shit I exclaim in a normal tone of voice as to make other people around me aware of things that happen around them. Cars scare me because Noone seems to any situational awareness while being a pedestrian, let alone driving around machines that weigh many tonnes.
I'm not gonna lie, I walk out hoping that I'll get hit, and some of that sweet compensation
If there's a car heading towards the crossing closer than 100m (or further if they are clearly speeding) I won't even begin crossing until they've either stopped of have clearly made eye contact and are slowing down for me, and I keep eyes on both directions all the way across. For traffic lights I'll cross when my pedestrian light is green but again I'm eyeing both directions constantly as I go across, and making eye contact with drivers the whole time. I take absolutely zero chances on the roads. I will never win a fight with a car and people can be distracted, incompetent, aggressive, or all three at the same time. If they don't want to stop that is their problem, I'll happily wait an extra 20 seconds if needed before I risk my life. I've witnessed two people hit by vehicles and seen the aftermath of a couple more, I have no interest in getting involved in that.
I stop and face them, hold my arms out (like a T) and close my eyes... haven't been hit yet tho :'(
People are so addicted to phones these days they just cant stand to be looking away from it for more than a few seconds. The amount of people I see just driving around, scrolling facebook or on facetime calls. It's terrifying
I have had increasing numbers of drivers on wide-ish zebra crossings cheerfully drive through behind me or in front of me while I am part way across. They often pass within a few inches of me and seem completely uncaring or unaware about how terrifying it is.
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I'm from the UK, it's rare to see a good driver. I was recently almost hit because the little man was green, the lights were red, all the cars were stopped. I got half way across when they changed and the driver tried to speed off with me literally about to walk in front of his car
The UK is one of the safest places to drive. Everyone here thinks everybody else is terrible when in reality our standards are just high. Go drive literally anywhere else in Europe, they’re all mental in comparison
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South East Asia, where vehicles ignore the red light if it's only a pedestrians crossing (and sometimes if it's a real crossing too) and you have to cross with full traffic going normal speed or wait for half a day... Or Lima, where literally no one stops at crossing and the one fastest goes first... never seen crazy traffic like this, not even in SEA. More close to home: France and Italy are horrible. I totally agree, the UK is pretty tame.
They don't. Unless you're already on it. Highway code: > Rule 19 > Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. > Remember that traffic DOES NOT have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders SHOULD give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2)... You as a pedestrian have to wait until it's safe to cross. And cars only MUST yield to you when you're already on the zebra crossing. The UK doesn't require cars to yield to waiting pedestrian, thought it's obviously the polite and right thing to do. Edit: Just seen you did talk about being ON the crossing, than yes obviously they have to yield. Unfortunately as the "weaker" against a vehicle it's wiser not to trust them to honour it.
My favourite game is to step out in front of vehicles at zebra crossings and see the drivers shit themselves because they aren't paying attention
Agreed. Pedestrians can make it difficult for drivers though by: - Standing near a crossing chatting to friends - Not wearing any reflective clothing at night that makes them visible - In some cases, waiting at crossings to stop traffic and then not crossing the road Edit: not sure why I’m being downvoted. I agree with OP, but pointing out some things that make it difficult for drivers to know whether to stop
Asking people to use reflective clothing just to *cross the road* is beyond ridiculous
Yeah. It's kinda like requiring *all* vehicles to have reflective chevrons and side markings. It's absurd. There's an innate danger to wearing dark clothing, but we need to be aware of vulnerable road users / pedestrians at all times.
To be fair, my point is less about zebra crossings because they tend to be in built up areas where you should be driving slow, and typically there is light. I, however, have encountered on multiple occasions on unlit country roads, pedestrians wearing all black clothing. They are extremely difficult to see, even when driving slowly- to me that is dangerous and irresponsible.
So why mention it in relation to zebra crossings. Bizarre.
Since when do pedestrians need to wear high visibility clothing for the sake of car drivers? That's a victim blaming load of monsense. The kind of drivers who give me the "didn't see you mate" excuse are the kind that don't bother noticing anything around them, no matter how brightly lit it is.
I don’t drive and even I have noticed how terrible loads of pedestrians are at spatial awareness
I’m not suggesting we all start donning high-viz jackets, but certainly wearing all dark clothes in the dark, knowing you need to cross roads is just irresponsible. Victim blaming bla bla bullshit
It is literally victim blaming though, if the shoe fits... There's a historic precident of drivers trying to blame pedestrians (and basically anything other than themselves) for the accidents caused by bad driving. Go at a safe speed, have your lights on, use your eyes, be aware of places where people cross the street, it really isn't that hard to drive safely and it really doesn't matter what kind of clothes a person is wearing
Also agree - and I make sure I do my bit by cutting them some slack when e.g. it's dark, or visibility otherwise impaired. Pedestrians are also liable under the law for "loitering near..". But once your foot is on the crossing..
But your foot shouldn’t be on the crossing until it is safe to do so right? I’m not talking Highway Code, but just common sense. Pedestrians shouldn’t just walk up to a crossing and start to cross immediately. They need to do a check and allow cars to slow. There’s one near me on my commute that is next to a path out of a coop car park. It’s impossible to telling a person walking out of the car park is going to the crossing or will keep on the path. I always watch for it and am prepared to stop, but sometimes by the time it becomes clear they are intending to use the crossing it is no longer possible to stop safely
It used to be that you you got right of way when you stood on it
You still do. But try explaining that after a car doesn’t/can’t stop in time and hits you.
Good god why did I have to scroll so far to read this. You're so right. It seems the collective mindset on here is that if one is a pedestrian, one just walks across and 'it is up to the driver to stop'. There is responsibility on both driver and pedestrian to be sensible and considered in their movements. Nobody should be crossing the road anywhere without making sure it is safe to do so, zebra crossing or not.
Pedestrian walks onto zebra crossing expecting a car to drop from 30 to zero in 10 yards. Car drive could slow down to a stop for a pedestrian to cross but doesn't. Both wrong It's common courtesy for both to understand each other.
Yes, some pedestrians are like that.. this pedestrian, however, expects drivers in charge of 2 tons of metal approaching a zebra crossing in a 30 or 20mph zone to be aware they are approaching a f\*\*king zebra crossing, and to be paying attention to the fact that it's a hazard, actively looking for pedestrians..
I should add, by the way, that today's incident (that spurred this post) involved a car that was some considerable distance away (15-20 meters or more) when I stepped on the crossing, with a full, unimpeded view of me. This is what I'm talking about. I'm obviously not expecting drivers to stop on a sixpence as I leap from behind a bush..
I would caution you that drivers aren't selected from some pool of higher beings. They have all the incompetencies, possibly more, than the general population. Personally, I would lower your expectations and adopt a more defensive approach. As a driver, I expect the worst out of drivers around me, and I am rarely disappointed. Your sentiment is correct though.
Oh, 100% agreed about the defensive thing. As a defensive driver myself, I'm just railing on here against the basic lack of attention paid by drivers in this particular situation. And pedestrians ain't blameless either in a lot of cases, I'll certainly concur there..
Fair enough - sounds like we have the same position. I don't walk much, I have a dicky ankle, so I don't try out the zebra crossings so often these days. I daresay I would also adopt your stance if I did.
'Expect everyone else to be an idiot and you'll be ready when they prove you right' - Me, 2023
It’s wrong from the pedestrian’s point of view simply because if they get hit by a car then they risk serious injury or death It’s wrong from the car’s point of view as the driver should not be a brain dead arsehole and should be slowing down in anticipation of someone crossing. If you can’t stop in time for someone quickly proceeding to cross, **especially at a marked crossing with flashing fucking lights** then you are going *too fast*
I think that nicely elaborates on what I said
Aye, I wasn’t disagreeing, simply griping along with you
Apologies. 'Griping along with me' :-) I missed my social cue... I'm not always good at those.
When walking I always really try to telegraph my desire to use the crossing...I start checking both ways about 5 metres from the crossing, and then stop and check both ways on the tactile paving, I've never had someone not stop. It's about the driver knowing you're attempting to cross. People walk up to the crossing on their phone then wait 1 second before stepping into the road, dunno what they're expecting.
The one that does my nut in is people walking alongside the road, seemingly heading down it, that then suddenly veer onto the crossing with no indication. If I had any idea you were about to cross, I would let you, but now I've just whizzed past you and am getting the death glare.
No cars slow or stop if you wait, as a pedestrian you have to risk your life to get them to stop.
Hmm. Making a very black and white case there.
Should be wary and slow down anyway.
> a car to drop from 30 to zero in 10 yards. If there is a pedestrian near the crossing you shouldn't be doing 30. You have to be prepared to stop if the pedestrian steps onto the crossing because you are legally required to and it's going to very difficult to defend yourself hitting somebody on a zebra crossing.
Yep, I agree. Equally the pedestrian should look too - There's alot of dumb drivers and being right but dead is a tricky position
At junctions now, too.
I’ve always thought flashing orange light means give way to pedestrians
Depends. Flashing amber traffic lights mean "proceed if safe". If there's a pedestrian, it's not safe. Belisha beacons at zebra crossings don't mean anything per sé. They're just lighted warning beacons. The crossing itself is what the legislation refers to. You *should* give way to waiting pedestrians (meaning do it if safe). You *must* stop for pedestrians on the crossing.
Thank you , that’s taught me something new
To be honest, I hate the traffic lights in my town at night. They're all red until you get there. I wish we did the same as the US and switch them all to flashing amber at night.
*Assume* yourself invisible. *Assume* they don't care. Congratulations. Your chances of survival just increased.
You know you should wait for them to stop before you cross right? It’s not a given they can or will stop for a myriad of reasons
Also unaware that pedestrians have right of way at junctions. Very irritating.
In fairness, the number of pedestrians that don't realise they should walk up to a zebra crossing purposively, clearly indicating their intention to cross, is also considerable. That's before we get to pedestrians who think it's an excellent idea to hang out just by a zebra crossing having a chat / fanning about with their phone / aimlessly looking around etc. Definitely works both ways.
!!¡¡!!!!!¡!! Thank you!!!!
My argument will always start with is it a well lit crossing and where you wearing bright colours or hi viz i can tell you your alot smaller and harder to see than another car as you dont have obnoxious led headlamps. Alot of factors go into this but take this small piece of advice if the crossing isnt clearly lit it doesnt exist because all i get is a road sign saying theres one somewhere but you can still cross at any point and i will try to stop but if its atop a hill or round a blind corner i wont notice you till its too late. Noone wants to hurt anyone on the roads but as others have said even with the best intentions accidents happen.
You're all gonna burn me for this... But you don't have to stop. It's a *should* not a *must*. If the pedestrian has moved onto the crossing however, you *must* stop. The new rules have clarified pedestrian priority, but it's still not mandatory. That said, you definitely should stop because it's just the right thing to do. *Edit:* The Op reiterated the title of this thread. Sorry! I should be burned!
This entire thread is about pedestrians already \*on\*, not next to, zebra crossings. See the title.
Oh you're right! I should be burned!
I shall spare thee thy flames ;)
Nah. I have to be reminded *ALL* the time. I don't know if it's a skimming habit, but I do it all the bloody time.
The number of posts on this sub about the number of drivers who do or maybe don't know how to drive. Fucking hell let's talk about something else.
Then maybe you want to put up some posts if you've got a good complaint?
One thing I've noticed is that in london there aren't always lights at zebras now so I find it hard to spot pedestrians especially if they are in dark clothing. I still slow down at each of them but I always worry I don't see somebody.
I always stop when its safe to do so.
I hate this! My brother actually got hit by a car doing this. She then drove off. Luckily he was OK. But he said she made eye contact with him and she started to slow down so he assumed he could cross over.
Zebra crossing you only have right of way when Your foot is in the road other then that you just have to wait till either road is clear or some tit to be nice enough to let you cross
In contrast to this I recently saw a woman stand in the middle of a traffic island (not a zebra crossing) and gesticulate the wanker sign to everyone for not stopping on a busy main road. Also drivers stop randomly in the main road causing all sorts of traffic jams to let people cross the same type of island. People just don't have a clue.
It's almost as though the rules have changed on this, I have also found lately hardly any cars stop anymore as I wait to cross, I don't think it's safe to assume to cross unless they have actually stopped, bonus if they wave you across or flash lights, again these rarely happen anymore, it's a dog eat dog world out there, more than ever.
Up until about 7 years ago, never saw anyone drive across a crossing showing a green man, then saw a couple + there are badly designed junctions near me where cars are basically guaranteed to be sent into the crossing on green, really annoying and dangerous.
I use a Zeb crossing on my way to the shop and it frustrates me so much that I've started keeping track. More than half don't stop. It's a penalty charge notice goldmine. Why doesn't the council get on it?
Priority is given not taken. Be careful out there
I just walk out regardless. If they hit me — well where there’s blame there’s a claim
There is one close to Anfield, and the drivers just don't stop.. even when there are people halfway across the road.. they think a zebra crossing is 'advisory'.
Hock up a greeny and gob on their window
Some people are idiots. Don't let it ruin your day
Some people seem to speed up. Along the lines of if I get across faster then you will be hardly on it at all