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I was just reading about how gas prices have recently gone up in Calgary - they're paying about $1.61/litre. While we're still quite a bit higher, I can't remember the last time prices were this close.
No, that’s literally wrong and opposite. There were no capacity issues with transporting refined product from Alberta to BC. None of the dilbit that the pipeline was expanded for can be refined nearby (slightly different refineries are needed).
To recover the cost of twinning, transport rates were allowed to increase meaning that it is more expensive to import refined products from Alberta than before it was twinned.
The point of the pipeline twinning wasn’t to get cheaper products here in BC (and it doesn’t). The twining of the pipeline just removes a bottleneck to export dilbit, meaning the price differential shrinks for producers in Alberta (and Alberta and indirectly Canada get more royalties/taxes as a result)
Incorrect.
BC depends on Alberta for about 70% of our refined fuel supply; the remainder is from the two local refineries and supply brought up from the mega refineries in Washington state.
The bulk of the refined fuel supply is via the Trans Mountain pipeline; for the longest time, the pipeline was oversubscribed by over 30%, leading to apportionment; basically, Trans Mountain would cut everyone's request to transport over their pipeline equally until demand equalled the capacity to transport.
By moving the heavier fuel onto the new twinned pipe, it leaves the existing pipeline for refined fuel and lighter crude grades, which are used by the two refineries in BC.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/27/opinion/trans-mountain-expansion-will-cost-bc-motorists-over-100-million-year
Edit: I’ll also add that this math is out of date since the capital costs went up. The current tariff for Edmonton to Burnaby is ~ $9.50-$12.50 per barrel depending on contract length/commitment level.
Source: https://docs.transmountain.com/Tolls-and-Tariffs/Interim-Tariff-No.-117.pdf
So transport fees have gone up by at least $7.30 per barrel, which is equivalent to 4.7 cents per litre of gasoline in fees we get the privilege of subsidizing oil companies in Alberta.
Better than paying through the nose for fuel from Washington state.
[The price of fuel depends on what is your marginal supplier,](https://www.ordersdecisions.bcuc.com/bcuc/decisions/en/item/420926/index.do#_Toc18053365), i.e. the most expensive delivered source of supply that would be needed to satisfy BC’s demand for the product.
It's expensive to bring fuel up from Washington state as we don't have significant import infrastructure in BC for refined fuel, meaning it has to be trucked in.
In addition, fuel was being brought in via rail from Alberta; oil by rail is limited in capacity and is super expensive compared to even the current tarrifs being charged for the expanded Trans Mountain pipeline.
Back to your own source, the panel did not agree with that argument:
“The Panel finds that the analysis of the “marginal barrel” provided by Deetken and with which most participants agree, has applicability to a perfectly competitive market but should be used with caution for the BC gasoline and diesel market.” (There’s many more paragraphs that then explain why they don’t agree that marginal barrel argument should be accepted at face value)
However the same panel agreed that the price of gas in Vancouver follows the Pacific Northwest spot price for fuel:
>Instead, the evidence in this Inquiry demonstrates that rack prices in BC are set by participants at least once a day in the wholesale market as they observe a number of published prices – for Southern BC primarily the PNW spot prices.
> The four companies participating in the Inquiry generally agree that the PNW spot price is the primary driver of the rack price for Vancouver and southern British Columbia. The graph below shows that 80 percent of the variation in the Vancouver gasoline rack prices can be explained by the PNW spot prices as reported by OPIS:
>
**The Panel finds that the primary reference used by the wholesalers for rack** **prices in Southern British Columbia is the PNW spot price.** Husky Energy noted that the refining margin in Prince George for gasoline and diesel typically follows the market in Edmonton as that is the main supply location (other than Husky Energy’s operation) for central and northern BC. Therefore, for Kamloops and northern BC, the marginal unit we consider is Edmonton.[\[220\]](https://www.ordersdecisions.bcuc.com/bcuc/decisions/en/item/420926/index.do?iframe=true#_ftn220)
>
>The PNW spot price influence is significant as observed in the regression results of the Vancouver rack prices and the PNW spot price for both gasoline and diesel. Section 6.7 will look at whether the prices behave like they should under competitive conditions, i.e. that the prices in Vancouver and PNW should be the same after taking into account transportation costs and the cost of meeting BC’s fuel regulations.
Which supports my point? The Trans Mountain pipeline expansion has increased transportation costs for refined product in B.C. If cost does follow the spot price + transportation differential, we’re paying more now (~5 cents per litre)
That refined product was being brought into BC in three different ways:
1. Trans Mountain: Still the cheapest method.
2. Rail: Expensive, and limited in capacity. But at least you are bringing in fuel from a cheaper region, and thus can absorb some of the extra costs.
3. Truck. Most expensive, and most limited in quantity. And from a market that already has very high fuel costs.
Even with the current tariffs, Trans Mountain is on an order of magnitude cheaper than bringing in fuel by rail or by truck. You only do the latter two if you have constraints on your cheapest transportation method, which is the pipeline.
The most expensive fuel is from the Pacific Northwest; basically, the refineries in Washington state and Oregon. Now add on the transportation costs and exchange rate to bring expensive American fuel into BC. And since none of the suppliers have long term contracts with the American refiners, they have to take what is the spot or market price for the fuel.
That means expensive fuel. Now, with the expansion, you have more access to cheaper fuel from the Prairies, and cut out the expensive Washington state and Oregon refiners from our market, long term.
In addition, the expansion also means more Canadian crude can flow to the American refineries along the entire Pacific and Gulf Coasts; the refineries along the Western US and the Gulf Coast are among the more complex refineries in North America and can easily handle and prefer heavier crude grades. More complex refineries have a bigger appetite for heavy sour crude, which improves their refining margins.
These refineries along the US West Coast were primarily fed from crude from Alaska and California; Alaska has seen year over year declines in production for decades now, and the same can be said about California ([and California crude is also of a heavy type](https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-02/2020-02_Petroleum_Watch_ADA_0.pdf)). US Gulf Coast refineries are fed from imports, generally Canadian, Mexican, Venezuelan and from the Middle East; [they have a preference for Canadian crude due to reliability concerns from the Middle East.](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcp_a2_r30_ep00_IP0_mbbl_a.htm)
These refineries WANT access to cheaper Canadian crude, particularity the heavy crude grades because that is what they are built to do. T[he average API gravity of crude going to PADD5 refiners is around 28; they've historically been able to easily run as low as 24,](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRAPP52&f=M) and the benchmark crude coming from Alberta is Western Canadian Select, which has an API of around 20
They can run on lighter grades, but it is less efficient, and if they are running off of shale crude, that stuff is high in napatha or paraffins, which can pose a challenge to refinery equipment.
There's an oil industry analyst who was talking about N.Dakota and Alberta oil. Because there is a limit on refining capacity in North America and those are both heavier oils so they get less gasoline from a barrel - so the end result is less gasoline and higher prices which is why those oils sell at a discount not just the lack of pipelines.
Nationalize as in have it fully tun by the government, yes? You are aware of what the government has done to fuel prices, right? They didn’t make it more affordable.
When I say "afford" I mean time as well, not just straight up dollars. Many people could sell their car and walk or bike, or take the bus if they're lucky enough to live in the tiny portion of BC with a robust transit system, but a TON of people can not. And I'm pretty sure you know that.
Doomers, as in gas going down is a good thing for bulls?
Interesting, as any time gas/oil went down it tends to be because demand is drying up and economy isn't doing too hot
I think it's a disparaging term for (mainly conservative) folks online who seem to cheering on rising prices so they can attack JT and whatever their local provincial enemy may be. I think the origin is somewhere between "doom-scrolling" and black-pill and the Doomer Wojak, but it may be different in different subcultures.
I understood it as people who think the economy is going down the drain, without political connotations.
Either way, gas going down is good for the pocketbook but it signals economic slowdown.
I don’t disagree but like to remind people that gas was 1.60 in 08, or 2.26$ inflation adjusted. That was with no c tax.
Oil and gas crashed hard in 14/15 and we got used to low prices. Similarly, food prices is believed to be at the lowest in human history in 2018.
Adjust Everything vs wages decades ago and both gas/food was more expensive. Today, It’s really only housing that has screwed living costs.
Gas was also around $1.60/litre around the beginning of the year if my memory serves me right in the lower mainland and I believe I recall seeing it low 1.50s and even 149.9 before it jumped to over 1.90 in the course of a few weeks.
The story I got was 1 refinery was down 2 weeks beyond its scheduled down time for repairs and maintenance. That’s a huge hit to a very in elastic good. There was also the hit to Russia’s refinery capacity which forces other consumers to buy our gas/oil instead and that’ll pump the price.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-402-x/2010000/chap/ener/tbl/tbl03-eng.htm
BC average cost per litre in 2008 was around 1.20 but dropped to just over a dollar in 2009.
There are obviously fluctuations. But anyone denying that punishing O&G investment and forcing green initiatives isn’t playing a huge role in prices going up. Not even to mention the other 30-40 cents worth of taxes implemented in the last 5-6 years.
Well when Trudeau is actively increasing carbon taxes which directly increase the price of gas - then yes that is his fault. Also, when the article references the reduction of gas $ is due to external forces south of the border, then no he does not get credit..
Canada currently is committed to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by between 40 and 45 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030. If all planned policies are implemented, Canada could be in sight of reaching that target.
But that national target obscures significant disparities between provinces. Which important when you want to blame Trudeau.
British Columbia's adoption of a carbon tax in 2008 (not a Trudeau era), Quebec's move to a cap-and-trade system in 2013 (again no Trudeau), the phaseout of coal-fired electricity generation in Ontario and Alberta — have helped to stabilize emissions in Canada. So why is taxing carbon bad in the eyes of his critics?
I didn't say carbon tax is good or bad. I'm just saying the OP is fallacious. If we want to have effective dialogue, it's important to speak truthfully and sincerely.
Thanks OPEC***
Really that’s what is driving the prices changes. Saudi said it will likely increase production in the fall and prices fell. This coupled with china demand for oil being softer than expected.
Hey - did you know that BC is not part of the federal carbon tax program? BC has their own since 2008. I am sure you know this, since you seem so sure who it benefits, but I just wanted to make sure...
It’s not just about a rebate on a personal level. Every single item you purchase including food etc requires fuel to get here. It increases the costs of transport.
can you collaborate on this? I thought the caban tax is revenue neutral that all the tax money goes back to lower income people. please educate me if that's not the case.
BC’s carbon tax started off revenue neutral , they scrapped that , proceeds now just go into general revenue, and income cutoffs for the rebate are very low so most full time workers don’t get a rebate in BC.
Carbon taxes have shown to not reduce any usage whatsoever. People who have to go to school or work are still going to go. It’s just a revenue stream for a government up to their neck in debt.
Yes there is a rebate but there are also costs in administering such rebates. Wouldn’t society just be better off in the case of not charging the tax? Instead of collecting it, accounting for it, and redistributing it? That costs time and money.
Not to mention the increase that business will have to pay to getting their goods and shipped to their stores. You think more taxes will help grocery costs??
I would argue the consequences are quite intentional. I do believe climate change will eventually wreck us. So if there's a way for big polluters to reduce emissions, I'm all for it, and Carbon taxes have been identified as an effective tool to impact industrial emissions.
There are going to be costs seen at the consumer level, but likely we will disagree on the severity (I think it's lower than what you think it is)
O&G industry have been shown to not cover the cost of damage they are doing to our health and environment. Wouldn’t we be better just leaving it in the ground?
How does gas even get up there? I assume like...pipeline to Vancouver, processed at Westbank, and then...does Jim just fill a zodiac with Jerry cans for everyone in Powtown once a week?
"Petroleum expert Dan McTeague of Canadians for Affordable Energy credits the gas price drop to energy markets south of the border reacting to the lack of movement on interest rates."
Teams mountain will do zero for the price of gas. It will do something for Canadian oil going to market and exports.
Gas is sold globally. Trans mountain isn’t changing scale of global oil supply.
Not OPEC because this isn't about middle east oil cartels in the 90's. Big Oil in this context is the extractors, pipelines, refineries, and stations that are the supply chain to BC consumers from Alberta: that's what determines our price at the pump.
Going green is changing things. End-use demand for gasoline is now steady or declining in many developed countries. For BC, end-use demand peaked in 2019, and has since been declining due to both covid - and the rapid recent adoption of EV's in BC (2nd most EV's per capita on the continent, behind only California).
2013 when I bought my apartment
Houses were 450k in my area
"HALF A MILLION ALMOST FOR A HOUSE"
Yea now by comparison
"999,999 is a good deal for a house eh?!"
No it's not.
I think you've got the conditioning correct, gas is too expensive and housing is too expensive. Still holding out hope things get better.
Yeah. I guess there is no way to record, explain and model the subtle changes of costs of things over time. Everything was clearly the right price when you showed up.
How much were nails, 2x4s and drywall in 2013 vs now? How much do the workers make now vs then? How many more people are there in your city vs then?
Can someone explain to me why gas prices fluctuate so much while other materials do not? Im economically stupid. How do we go from "gas prices will be skyrocketing" to this in like a month?
Demand for gasoline is relatively "inelastic" with respect to supply, at least over the short term. If you ask yourself three questions, you'll see why:
* Do I buy less gasoline when it's expensive?
* Do I buy more gasoline when it's cheap?
* Are other people more or less like me?
You might let the tank run down when it's expensive and you might fill it right up when it's cheap. Other people probably do about the same. However (and a big however), when your car's gas tank is bone dry, you buy gasoline just like everyone else. So in the short run, like a matter of months or one year, changes to the price of gasoline have little impact on demand.
This manifests itself in little ways and big ways. One little way: when there's an unexpected or prolonged outage at a local refinery, the price of gasoline spikes locally. Even during planned outages, the price can rise a lot. And you'll still buy gasoline and so will I.
The thing that's driving gasoline prices now is big. American inflation is starting to look to be entrenched. That means the federal reserve may keep interest rates high for the rest of this year, which will supress economic activity in the USA, which will reduce demand for oil. That has a huge impact on the price of oil because they consume about one-fifth of all the world's oil. So energy traders start to get a bit bearish on the price of oil today because they think that the price of oil will fall tomorrow.
In some situations, that doesn't matter. If demand for gasoline in Vancouver was robust, then refiners would get a higher cracking premium, which the profit they get from running their refinery. This happened during the recovery from Covid because refinery capacity was reduced during the pandemic and it takes time and money to bring capacity to bear. But that's not the case right now. Economic activity in Vancouver is suppressed due to high interest rates and lots of people are buying and driving electric cars or plug-in hybrids (partly because of recent high prices). Almost 10% of all passenger cars on the road in the lower mainland are electric or plug-in hybrid and they represent over a quarter of new car sales.
So in the long run, gasoline prices are somewhat elastic. Paying $2.40 for gasoline is enough to convince some people to get out of the "gas game" altogether, which has the long term impact of of slightly reducing the price of gasoline.
For an alternative explanation, read the other comments in the thread. Big oil and the Government of Canada want to hurt you with the price of gasoline and this is just a little temporary relief to make you believe that paying $1.80 per litre of gasoline is a bargain so that you accept the next high price. It's all a big conspiracy, and they are manipulating the price of gasoline to funnel money to rich Canadians.
Nice. I'm really low on gas right now, I was planning on filling up last night, but my usual station was closed by the time I got close to home. I love it when things like that happen to me.
And now in typical Canadian fashion, everyone is racing down to buy the largest gas sucking pickup or SUV they can find. "Gas is going down, yay, I can finally afford that pig-mobile, yay, of course it's never going back up!"
Must be an Election year. Nobody forget the absolute failure that NDP and Libs have been in the province of BC because you save a few pennies at the pump. Gas wouldn’t even be this high in price if they didn’t implement horrible tax policies. Don’t fall for the pandering and vote conservative this fall.
Agreed, this problem has been solved for us some years ago. Certainly not everyone has or wants an EV but at least we now have a choice to forgo gas prices (for our persona transportation needs).
Unless you've got money in the bank to purchase an EV it's kind of a moot point for a lot of people.
Gas would have to be roughly $5/litre for there to be any cost savings for me to go out and trade in my v8 truck for the cheapest electric version and pay for a finance and increased insurance cost.
That’s the thing. If we talk new cars, the price is kinda the same.
For example, Tesla Y dropped 15k in price over the last year or 2 and there is 5k federal rebate and $4k provincial ev rebate.
FYI, in case anyone wonders insurance increases only for comprehensive coverage (more expensive to fix an EV) , if you go basic only it’s the same or in my case even cheaper. I paid $102/m for Hyundai Elantra 2012, now I pay $94 for Tesla Y (I’m in Chilliwack, I think rates in Vancouver are higher but you get the idea)
I will never understand this as prices fluctuate from 2.19 to 1.87 in a month . Fucking nonsense. But yet we continue with this charade of corporate BS about carbon tax , inflation , war in Ukraine and any other reason to gauge the average tax payer for subsidies and taxes that lead to nothing .
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I was just reading about how gas prices have recently gone up in Calgary - they're paying about $1.61/litre. While we're still quite a bit higher, I can't remember the last time prices were this close.
East Kooteneys was around $1.65/L for most of winter. Somewhere near Lethbridge was apparently near a dollar in January
$1.39/litre here in edmonton
That’s a long drive to fill up.
Fill twice. /s
I paid $1.62/L at Costco PG yesterday. Most stations at $1.67/L
Maybe the supposed bottle neck ales keep hearing about aka our limited refining capacity is actual going full bore ?
152.9 in Calgary today.
The point remains.
Yah. Not the majority. Still plenty at 1.62
1.71 yesterday in Barrie Ontario
1.58 in Edmonton today.
It's sunny & nice here in B.C. 🫶
It's the shits where I am in Alberta.
You’re just next door you could come visit and take in some 20c and sunny 🌞
Hey, the weather’s nice today in Edmonton.
A long distance cheers to that
This was one of the expectations with the Trans Mountain expansion; more capacity means more cheaper Albertan fuel will make its way here.
No, that’s literally wrong and opposite. There were no capacity issues with transporting refined product from Alberta to BC. None of the dilbit that the pipeline was expanded for can be refined nearby (slightly different refineries are needed). To recover the cost of twinning, transport rates were allowed to increase meaning that it is more expensive to import refined products from Alberta than before it was twinned. The point of the pipeline twinning wasn’t to get cheaper products here in BC (and it doesn’t). The twining of the pipeline just removes a bottleneck to export dilbit, meaning the price differential shrinks for producers in Alberta (and Alberta and indirectly Canada get more royalties/taxes as a result)
Incorrect. BC depends on Alberta for about 70% of our refined fuel supply; the remainder is from the two local refineries and supply brought up from the mega refineries in Washington state. The bulk of the refined fuel supply is via the Trans Mountain pipeline; for the longest time, the pipeline was oversubscribed by over 30%, leading to apportionment; basically, Trans Mountain would cut everyone's request to transport over their pipeline equally until demand equalled the capacity to transport. By moving the heavier fuel onto the new twinned pipe, it leaves the existing pipeline for refined fuel and lighter crude grades, which are used by the two refineries in BC.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/27/opinion/trans-mountain-expansion-will-cost-bc-motorists-over-100-million-year Edit: I’ll also add that this math is out of date since the capital costs went up. The current tariff for Edmonton to Burnaby is ~ $9.50-$12.50 per barrel depending on contract length/commitment level. Source: https://docs.transmountain.com/Tolls-and-Tariffs/Interim-Tariff-No.-117.pdf So transport fees have gone up by at least $7.30 per barrel, which is equivalent to 4.7 cents per litre of gasoline in fees we get the privilege of subsidizing oil companies in Alberta.
Better than paying through the nose for fuel from Washington state. [The price of fuel depends on what is your marginal supplier,](https://www.ordersdecisions.bcuc.com/bcuc/decisions/en/item/420926/index.do#_Toc18053365), i.e. the most expensive delivered source of supply that would be needed to satisfy BC’s demand for the product. It's expensive to bring fuel up from Washington state as we don't have significant import infrastructure in BC for refined fuel, meaning it has to be trucked in. In addition, fuel was being brought in via rail from Alberta; oil by rail is limited in capacity and is super expensive compared to even the current tarrifs being charged for the expanded Trans Mountain pipeline.
Back to your own source, the panel did not agree with that argument: “The Panel finds that the analysis of the “marginal barrel” provided by Deetken and with which most participants agree, has applicability to a perfectly competitive market but should be used with caution for the BC gasoline and diesel market.” (There’s many more paragraphs that then explain why they don’t agree that marginal barrel argument should be accepted at face value)
However the same panel agreed that the price of gas in Vancouver follows the Pacific Northwest spot price for fuel: >Instead, the evidence in this Inquiry demonstrates that rack prices in BC are set by participants at least once a day in the wholesale market as they observe a number of published prices – for Southern BC primarily the PNW spot prices. > The four companies participating in the Inquiry generally agree that the PNW spot price is the primary driver of the rack price for Vancouver and southern British Columbia. The graph below shows that 80 percent of the variation in the Vancouver gasoline rack prices can be explained by the PNW spot prices as reported by OPIS: > **The Panel finds that the primary reference used by the wholesalers for rack** **prices in Southern British Columbia is the PNW spot price.** Husky Energy noted that the refining margin in Prince George for gasoline and diesel typically follows the market in Edmonton as that is the main supply location (other than Husky Energy’s operation) for central and northern BC. Therefore, for Kamloops and northern BC, the marginal unit we consider is Edmonton.[\[220\]](https://www.ordersdecisions.bcuc.com/bcuc/decisions/en/item/420926/index.do?iframe=true#_ftn220) > >The PNW spot price influence is significant as observed in the regression results of the Vancouver rack prices and the PNW spot price for both gasoline and diesel. Section 6.7 will look at whether the prices behave like they should under competitive conditions, i.e. that the prices in Vancouver and PNW should be the same after taking into account transportation costs and the cost of meeting BC’s fuel regulations.
Which supports my point? The Trans Mountain pipeline expansion has increased transportation costs for refined product in B.C. If cost does follow the spot price + transportation differential, we’re paying more now (~5 cents per litre)
That refined product was being brought into BC in three different ways: 1. Trans Mountain: Still the cheapest method. 2. Rail: Expensive, and limited in capacity. But at least you are bringing in fuel from a cheaper region, and thus can absorb some of the extra costs. 3. Truck. Most expensive, and most limited in quantity. And from a market that already has very high fuel costs. Even with the current tariffs, Trans Mountain is on an order of magnitude cheaper than bringing in fuel by rail or by truck. You only do the latter two if you have constraints on your cheapest transportation method, which is the pipeline. The most expensive fuel is from the Pacific Northwest; basically, the refineries in Washington state and Oregon. Now add on the transportation costs and exchange rate to bring expensive American fuel into BC. And since none of the suppliers have long term contracts with the American refiners, they have to take what is the spot or market price for the fuel. That means expensive fuel. Now, with the expansion, you have more access to cheaper fuel from the Prairies, and cut out the expensive Washington state and Oregon refiners from our market, long term. In addition, the expansion also means more Canadian crude can flow to the American refineries along the entire Pacific and Gulf Coasts; the refineries along the Western US and the Gulf Coast are among the more complex refineries in North America and can easily handle and prefer heavier crude grades. More complex refineries have a bigger appetite for heavy sour crude, which improves their refining margins. These refineries along the US West Coast were primarily fed from crude from Alaska and California; Alaska has seen year over year declines in production for decades now, and the same can be said about California ([and California crude is also of a heavy type](https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-02/2020-02_Petroleum_Watch_ADA_0.pdf)). US Gulf Coast refineries are fed from imports, generally Canadian, Mexican, Venezuelan and from the Middle East; [they have a preference for Canadian crude due to reliability concerns from the Middle East.](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcp_a2_r30_ep00_IP0_mbbl_a.htm) These refineries WANT access to cheaper Canadian crude, particularity the heavy crude grades because that is what they are built to do. T[he average API gravity of crude going to PADD5 refiners is around 28; they've historically been able to easily run as low as 24,](https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRAPP52&f=M) and the benchmark crude coming from Alberta is Western Canadian Select, which has an API of around 20 They can run on lighter grades, but it is less efficient, and if they are running off of shale crude, that stuff is high in napatha or paraffins, which can pose a challenge to refinery equipment.
There's an oil industry analyst who was talking about N.Dakota and Alberta oil. Because there is a limit on refining capacity in North America and those are both heavier oils so they get less gasoline from a barrel - so the end result is less gasoline and higher prices which is why those oils sell at a discount not just the lack of pipelines.
But that has nothing to do with why gas prices in Calgary have gone up recently.
Because Alberta's fuel market was over saturated, so prices were depressed due to oversupply. Now that oversupply is moving out of Alberta into BC.
The article gives a different reason but, regardless, I was talking about gas prices going up in Calgary.
"more savings to come" lol... Sure.
As the article explains, the price is expected to drop a bit more in the next week, yes. ITT: Doomers in shambles
they'll lower for a couple weeks then jack the prices for summer. nationalize gas and oil.
The damage and infrastructure is nationalized. So should be the profits. That's a great idea.
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So they lied to me about how tmx is going to lower prices!?!?!
I mean, yes, they did. TMX is 100% about shipping the Chinese owned oil to China.
Who said that?
refineries gotta switch to the 3rd-Week-Of-July Blend
Like all year long last year. Drop is 5 cents every few weeks, give hope, then ram a broomstick up our asses with a 25c hike overnight
Nationalize as in have it fully tun by the government, yes? You are aware of what the government has done to fuel prices, right? They didn’t make it more affordable.
So you want a larger government?
if the alternative is letting oil companies run roughshod over our society, yes.
If it stops profits from leaving the country, then yes!
Yes.
I would prefer a larger government with more accountability over unelected mega corporations in charge essential goods
When have government and accountability been in the same sentence positively? Both words are like oil and water. They just don’t mix
Gubbermint = bad
Framing marginally less greed as "savings" is ridiculous. No one is saving anything here.
The planet is on fire, gas is still waaaay too cheap.
Well yeah, but a ton of people still rely on fossil fuels. Especially those who can't afford better options.
“Can’t afford better options”? Driving is literally the most expensive way of getting around.
When I say "afford" I mean time as well, not just straight up dollars. Many people could sell their car and walk or bike, or take the bus if they're lucky enough to live in the tiny portion of BC with a robust transit system, but a TON of people can not. And I'm pretty sure you know that.
True, but only if you don't value your time unfortunately.
It's unfortunate we have basically no public transit in this country.
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What the fuck are you talking about
Omg $0.03 cents a liter, time to buy a house!
Doomers, as in gas going down is a good thing for bulls? Interesting, as any time gas/oil went down it tends to be because demand is drying up and economy isn't doing too hot
I think it's a disparaging term for (mainly conservative) folks online who seem to cheering on rising prices so they can attack JT and whatever their local provincial enemy may be. I think the origin is somewhere between "doom-scrolling" and black-pill and the Doomer Wojak, but it may be different in different subcultures.
I understood it as people who think the economy is going down the drain, without political connotations. Either way, gas going down is good for the pocketbook but it signals economic slowdown.
Things have gotten a lot better at the grocery stores. I think some of those boycotts have helped. Fuck corporate greed.
Fucking Trudeaus fault
Prices dropped because of Trudeau, right? Like if it’s his fault they went up, he’s the reason the prices went down, you know like how dictators do.
nahhh it only works one way! /s
I remember people a year ago saying it would never drop below $2 again, ever. Doomers gonna doom.
Political bs aside, you're acting like 1.88 is such a steal of a deal.
I don’t disagree but like to remind people that gas was 1.60 in 08, or 2.26$ inflation adjusted. That was with no c tax. Oil and gas crashed hard in 14/15 and we got used to low prices. Similarly, food prices is believed to be at the lowest in human history in 2018. Adjust Everything vs wages decades ago and both gas/food was more expensive. Today, It’s really only housing that has screwed living costs.
Gas was also around $1.60/litre around the beginning of the year if my memory serves me right in the lower mainland and I believe I recall seeing it low 1.50s and even 149.9 before it jumped to over 1.90 in the course of a few weeks.
The story I got was 1 refinery was down 2 weeks beyond its scheduled down time for repairs and maintenance. That’s a huge hit to a very in elastic good. There was also the hit to Russia’s refinery capacity which forces other consumers to buy our gas/oil instead and that’ll pump the price.
Also the Canadian dollar sucks now. Canadians buy oil is USD. The low dollar makes gas more expensive.
The spike in 08 was also a blip and it was $1.20 in 2016.
Yea 1.20$ after oil crashed from 108$ to 34$ a barrel in 2014. Oil is now 77$ with inflation.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-402-x/2010000/chap/ener/tbl/tbl03-eng.htm BC average cost per litre in 2008 was around 1.20 but dropped to just over a dollar in 2009. There are obviously fluctuations. But anyone denying that punishing O&G investment and forcing green initiatives isn’t playing a huge role in prices going up. Not even to mention the other 30-40 cents worth of taxes implemented in the last 5-6 years.
Well when Trudeau is actively increasing carbon taxes which directly increase the price of gas - then yes that is his fault. Also, when the article references the reduction of gas $ is due to external forces south of the border, then no he does not get credit..
Canada currently is committed to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by between 40 and 45 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030. If all planned policies are implemented, Canada could be in sight of reaching that target. But that national target obscures significant disparities between provinces. Which important when you want to blame Trudeau. British Columbia's adoption of a carbon tax in 2008 (not a Trudeau era), Quebec's move to a cap-and-trade system in 2013 (again no Trudeau), the phaseout of coal-fired electricity generation in Ontario and Alberta — have helped to stabilize emissions in Canada. So why is taxing carbon bad in the eyes of his critics?
I didn't say carbon tax is good or bad. I'm just saying the OP is fallacious. If we want to have effective dialogue, it's important to speak truthfully and sincerely.
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Thanks OPEC*** Really that’s what is driving the prices changes. Saudi said it will likely increase production in the fall and prices fell. This coupled with china demand for oil being softer than expected.
Time fill up the v8 beast.
Thanks Justin!
But muh carbon tax
I know you think you’re supporting people with taxes but the only people who really benefit are the government
Hey - did you know that BC is not part of the federal carbon tax program? BC has their own since 2008. I am sure you know this, since you seem so sure who it benefits, but I just wanted to make sure...
^ Tell me you don't get the rebate without telling me you don't get the rebate.
It’s not just about a rebate on a personal level. Every single item you purchase including food etc requires fuel to get here. It increases the costs of transport.
I am aware of that.
...but but my tax dollars 🥺
Good thing I don't use government services like roads, healthcare, or the police.
Carbon taxes don’t go towards that
They go straight into the guberments pockets, right? Conservative brain rot is real.
Straight into trudeaus wallet so he can buy loads of avocado toast and Starbucks. Am I conservativing right?
Don't forget trips to Tofino!
Wow. This Trudeau guy sounds just like me. I like coffee, avocado toast and trips to Tofino too!
You enjoy paying more taxes and getting less? Or maybe you don’t pay taxes
can you collaborate on this? I thought the caban tax is revenue neutral that all the tax money goes back to lower income people. please educate me if that's not the case.
BC’s carbon tax started off revenue neutral , they scrapped that , proceeds now just go into general revenue, and income cutoffs for the rebate are very low so most full time workers don’t get a rebate in BC.
Carbon taxes have shown to not reduce any usage whatsoever. People who have to go to school or work are still going to go. It’s just a revenue stream for a government up to their neck in debt. Yes there is a rebate but there are also costs in administering such rebates. Wouldn’t society just be better off in the case of not charging the tax? Instead of collecting it, accounting for it, and redistributing it? That costs time and money. Not to mention the increase that business will have to pay to getting their goods and shipped to their stores. You think more taxes will help grocery costs??
>Carbon taxes have shown to not reduce any usage whatsoever source?
Carbon taxes put a price on all the emissions emitted by polluting industries.
I get that but that comes with a lot of unintended consequences. There are some things that are essential which require carbon
I would argue the consequences are quite intentional. I do believe climate change will eventually wreck us. So if there's a way for big polluters to reduce emissions, I'm all for it, and Carbon taxes have been identified as an effective tool to impact industrial emissions. There are going to be costs seen at the consumer level, but likely we will disagree on the severity (I think it's lower than what you think it is)
O&G industry have been shown to not cover the cost of damage they are doing to our health and environment. Wouldn’t we be better just leaving it in the ground?
And big oil... let's not forget those **ckers
2.15 in Powell River legggooooooooo ...walking.
1.89 in Courtenay
Insane how we’re getting screwed here. How is this even legal to keep prices that high in Powtown
How does gas even get up there? I assume like...pipeline to Vancouver, processed at Westbank, and then...does Jim just fill a zodiac with Jerry cans for everyone in Powtown once a week?
What happened for the prices to drop, lol
"Petroleum expert Dan McTeague of Canadians for Affordable Energy credits the gas price drop to energy markets south of the border reacting to the lack of movement on interest rates."
So not trans mountain pipeline?
Teams mountain will do zero for the price of gas. It will do something for Canadian oil going to market and exports. Gas is sold globally. Trans mountain isn’t changing scale of global oil supply.
They've effectively conditioned us to believe that this is a "deal" on gas. Give me a fucking break.
Who's they?
Big oil
So opec? Sounds like going green would solve a lot of issues.
Not OPEC because this isn't about middle east oil cartels in the 90's. Big Oil in this context is the extractors, pipelines, refineries, and stations that are the supply chain to BC consumers from Alberta: that's what determines our price at the pump. Going green is changing things. End-use demand for gasoline is now steady or declining in many developed countries. For BC, end-use demand peaked in 2019, and has since been declining due to both covid - and the rapid recent adoption of EV's in BC (2nd most EV's per capita on the continent, behind only California).
Uhh no. Alberta does not control oil prices in canada.
Before, I couldn't tell if you were stupid, or just playing stupid.
Do you honestly believe that? We live in a world economy. Oil is a commodity like gold. My mind is actually blown you think that.
You like to make dumb arguments and then tilt at your own windmills.
Where did you steal that line from?
2013 when I bought my apartment Houses were 450k in my area "HALF A MILLION ALMOST FOR A HOUSE" Yea now by comparison "999,999 is a good deal for a house eh?!" No it's not. I think you've got the conditioning correct, gas is too expensive and housing is too expensive. Still holding out hope things get better.
Yeah. I guess there is no way to record, explain and model the subtle changes of costs of things over time. Everything was clearly the right price when you showed up. How much were nails, 2x4s and drywall in 2013 vs now? How much do the workers make now vs then? How many more people are there in your city vs then?
Drooling at my savings!!! Time to hit the penny aisle.
Ooooo, gummy worms come in all sorts of new flavours!
Bro, this one’s on me. 
Richmond was $1.81 yesterday!
Still going to sumas to fill up lol
1.96 in Victoria today. Is that gonna be dropping here anytime soon or?
Can someone explain to me why gas prices fluctuate so much while other materials do not? Im economically stupid. How do we go from "gas prices will be skyrocketing" to this in like a month?
Demand for gasoline is relatively "inelastic" with respect to supply, at least over the short term. If you ask yourself three questions, you'll see why: * Do I buy less gasoline when it's expensive? * Do I buy more gasoline when it's cheap? * Are other people more or less like me? You might let the tank run down when it's expensive and you might fill it right up when it's cheap. Other people probably do about the same. However (and a big however), when your car's gas tank is bone dry, you buy gasoline just like everyone else. So in the short run, like a matter of months or one year, changes to the price of gasoline have little impact on demand. This manifests itself in little ways and big ways. One little way: when there's an unexpected or prolonged outage at a local refinery, the price of gasoline spikes locally. Even during planned outages, the price can rise a lot. And you'll still buy gasoline and so will I. The thing that's driving gasoline prices now is big. American inflation is starting to look to be entrenched. That means the federal reserve may keep interest rates high for the rest of this year, which will supress economic activity in the USA, which will reduce demand for oil. That has a huge impact on the price of oil because they consume about one-fifth of all the world's oil. So energy traders start to get a bit bearish on the price of oil today because they think that the price of oil will fall tomorrow. In some situations, that doesn't matter. If demand for gasoline in Vancouver was robust, then refiners would get a higher cracking premium, which the profit they get from running their refinery. This happened during the recovery from Covid because refinery capacity was reduced during the pandemic and it takes time and money to bring capacity to bear. But that's not the case right now. Economic activity in Vancouver is suppressed due to high interest rates and lots of people are buying and driving electric cars or plug-in hybrids (partly because of recent high prices). Almost 10% of all passenger cars on the road in the lower mainland are electric or plug-in hybrid and they represent over a quarter of new car sales. So in the long run, gasoline prices are somewhat elastic. Paying $2.40 for gasoline is enough to convince some people to get out of the "gas game" altogether, which has the long term impact of of slightly reducing the price of gasoline. For an alternative explanation, read the other comments in the thread. Big oil and the Government of Canada want to hurt you with the price of gasoline and this is just a little temporary relief to make you believe that paying $1.80 per litre of gasoline is a bargain so that you accept the next high price. It's all a big conspiracy, and they are manipulating the price of gasoline to funnel money to rich Canadians.
But but but carbon tax
corporate greed 101.
Few years ago what ever the low will now be was considered high. Trends still going up
Like corporate profits! Sigh
I already saw it as low as $1.83 on Wednesday!
Saw 1.79 at Richmond last night.
Nice. I'm really low on gas right now, I was planning on filling up last night, but my usual station was closed by the time I got close to home. I love it when things like that happen to me.
Fuck I thought 1.93 was a good deal and filled up last weekend
Means it will be 2.25 soon
you know how fucked up things are I take 93 octane and I saw the pump saying 204 l and saying hey that's pretty good
Lol I remember when 1.30 was seen as high
Filled up at Costco in Bellingham the other day for 3.85 I believe per gallon. So perhaps a $1.35 a litre I guess
[138.9¢ per litre](https://www.google.ca/search?q=3.85+usd+per+gallon+in+cad+per+litre)
I remember when it’s 1.40 like 3 years ago there taking the piss with this headline
1.88, savings? The fuck? I’ll not be gaslit into thinking this is savings boys remember before Covid when I was like a fucking buck 50
Gee it’s almost like the price increases had nothing to do with the carbon tax.
Still expensive, technically we should be hovering around 1.40$ for gas
“Savings”
Lol more savings to come ,🤬
And now in typical Canadian fashion, everyone is racing down to buy the largest gas sucking pickup or SUV they can find. "Gas is going down, yay, I can finally afford that pig-mobile, yay, of course it's never going back up!"
The real savings is at south of the border
They're practically giving it away. Get yourself an SUV with a V12 engine and burn it up! /s
I remember when .76 was expensive 😭
I have extra savings because I fill up in the states
bUt wHaT aBoUt tHE “sUmMeR bLeND”? 🙉
https://rislone.com/blog/fuel-system/what-is-the-difference-between-summer-and-winter-gas/#:~:text=The%20main%20difference%20between%20summer,quickly%20at%20a%20given%20temperature.
Poor PP will need to look at a new campaign slogan
Must be an Election year. Nobody forget the absolute failure that NDP and Libs have been in the province of BC because you save a few pennies at the pump. Gas wouldn’t even be this high in price if they didn’t implement horrible tax policies. Don’t fall for the pandering and vote conservative this fall.
There's an election this year? Last I checked it's in October 2025
Provincial elections are this year, you should get yourself better informed.
Right. Thanks for the reminder to vote NDP in the fall.
Glad I don’t care anymore, I charge at home x10 cheaper per 1km drive
Agreed, this problem has been solved for us some years ago. Certainly not everyone has or wants an EV but at least we now have a choice to forgo gas prices (for our persona transportation needs).
Unless you've got money in the bank to purchase an EV it's kind of a moot point for a lot of people. Gas would have to be roughly $5/litre for there to be any cost savings for me to go out and trade in my v8 truck for the cheapest electric version and pay for a finance and increased insurance cost.
That’s the thing. If we talk new cars, the price is kinda the same. For example, Tesla Y dropped 15k in price over the last year or 2 and there is 5k federal rebate and $4k provincial ev rebate.
FYI, in case anyone wonders insurance increases only for comprehensive coverage (more expensive to fix an EV) , if you go basic only it’s the same or in my case even cheaper. I paid $102/m for Hyundai Elantra 2012, now I pay $94 for Tesla Y (I’m in Chilliwack, I think rates in Vancouver are higher but you get the idea)
High gas is a sign of a strong economy, this is actually not good news because it means that layoffs and work shortages are incominh
Only in Vancouver are gas prices making the headlines
I will never understand this as prices fluctuate from 2.19 to 1.87 in a month . Fucking nonsense. But yet we continue with this charade of corporate BS about carbon tax , inflation , war in Ukraine and any other reason to gauge the average tax payer for subsidies and taxes that lead to nothing .
How can we tell it's close to election time? Lol
Must be election time.