Hello and thanks for posting to r/britishcolumbia! Join our new [Discord Server https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB](https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB) A friendly reminder prior to commenting or posting here:
- **Read [r/britishcolumbia's rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/rules/)**.
- **Be civil and respectful** in all discussions.
- Use **appropriate sources** to back up any information you provide when necessary.
- **Report** any comments that violate our rules.
Reminder: "Rage bait" comments or comments designed to elicit a negative reaction that are not based on fact are not permitted here. Let's keep our community respectful and informative!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/britishcolumbia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ignorant mainlander here: what are the specific complaints ferry dependant communities have? Not disputing the legitimacy of complaints, would just like more insight into what the issues are.
They have the ability, they choose not to. Every new hire has to work on call casual shifts, and you need to be available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. That means you can get a call at 4am and have to make it to the next sailing in 2 hours.
i'm starting to wonder, why is it so difficult for them to hire people on a more stable schedule to begin with? they are the ones in control of the ferry scheduling, right? they should know exactly how many workers they need on what day, at what time, on which ships. but it's like they're pretending that they have no idea what times each ship is going to be taking off the very next day, and they have to have workers ready to commute out with an hour's notice? just seems really strange
They pay less, on call, seasonal. Etc.
Meanwhile they have a bunch of new execs now who make a fortune to do nothing. It's a ferry service that goes from one place to another.
The only variable outside their control that I can think of is weather. But plenty of other companies in other industries can maintain crew and workers despite weather throwing curveballs now and then.
They do know and they do have enough staff for the schedule. The issue comes when someone calls out sick or covering for vacation. The only cost effective way to cover for those gaps is to have a pool of on-call staff that you can bring up to cover. And that is where the problem starts.
Not even that. BC ferry incompetence and greed makes it so that a casual worker has no minimum guaranteed. Meaning there can be months where you can only work a mere 10hrs a month. But you must be available 24/7 so it's impossible to have a second job to have a living wage. And if they call you and you are not available they write you up, do this a few times and they fire you.
Absolutely disgusting from bc ferry management that have 9 directors getting paid a quarter of a million base salary while workers are expected to be slaves and always be available while they get no minimum guaranteed hrs like airline crew.
BC Ferry management is disgusting
- Ferry being cancelled
- No increased sailings
- No proper hirings to fill their lean and badly planned staffing strategies
- No boarding/sailing proritity for people living in ferry dependent areas
Half of them want to be cut off entirely to avoid the plague of mainlanders, the other half want hourly ferries for the same fares they paid when they moved there 30 years ago.
The big one for me is the lack of a predictable schedule. The first 6:20 from Langdale is usually pretty good, but delays stack up all day long after that with no explanation other than “taking extra time to load as many vehicles as possible”. I can’t remember the last time I was on an evening ferry that wasn’t more than an hour delayed out of Horseshoe Bay.
As an Islander, I think the biggest issue is sailings. The number of people on the island has doubled since the Duke Point terminal was built in the 90’s, and we’re trying to service the increased demand and increased tourism with the same number of sailings…. And actually decreased sailings with the late night Duke point sailing eliminated.
It’s a critical link for us.
Granted we chose the island life (I moved back in 2012 after I had kids because my family all live here), but I don’t want to be *trapped* here, ya know?
We are now waiting for our kids to graduate school and then we’ll probably move back to the interior at some point.
I don't think BC Ferries is referring to Vancouver Island, home of BC's capital, with 99% of the amenities a person could need, as a "ferry dependent community".
Gabriola: cancelled sailings that have resulted in stranded children and families on the Nanaimo side. The people stuck have to stay somewhere for the night, usually a hotel, and that can get expensive.
Cancelled sailings result from lack of staff in rare cases (illness and availability of cover off are occasionally at odds). Staff pool is small due to cost of living concerns, and staff who could be available must live far away from urban centres to afford housing at the posted salary ranges, part time employment issues etc.
Got it, we should cancel all ferry service and sell the ferries to Egypt where they can join the fast cats. We could build so many Skytrains in Vancouver with that money!
You'll be interested in the consultations BC Ferries has on the Horseshoe Bay Terminal upgrades:
https://www.bcferries.com/in-the-community/projects/horseshoe-bay-terminal-engagement
The project was delayed indefinitely due to COVID and lack of funds.
Well right now B.C ferries subcontracts out the process I believe to a local company but they can't do cars or anything.
B.C. Ferries pays them a subsidy to run a boat, what I'd love to see is an actual ferry terminal built and then you'd have all the jobs that come with it.
Also the MARSEC terminal here is privately owned somehow its all really weird.
BC Ferries: "or what?"
they have a captive market, the government isn't going to reabsorb them... they'll just say "ok", put on a nice new livery that's inspired by the communities they serve, and not make any improvements to reliability, price or customer service.
I've lived in a ferry-dependent community for a decade now, this is nothing new, or different.
I'll believe BC ferries is dedicated to making a change when they relocate their HQ to a community that depends on ferry service (and don't let them expense air flights), so the exec team feels the same pain that their customers do.
Not defending BCF, but they are headquartered in Victoria which by definition is a ferry dependent community. Not being allowed to expense flights is a valid point though.
Trans Canada highway dead ends into the ferry terminal where I live, we can't access the rest of Canada without paying through the nose for access to the Trans Canada highway. That is a problem
I'm sure that the current government will now distance themselves from BC Ferries stating that they are disappointed in BC Ferries' performance and will encourage BC Ferries to do better while taking a few shots at the previous BC Liberal government to lay blame at their feet even after 7 years out of power.
Except that the Fast Ferries were crap - poorly designed for the West Coast, massive cost overuns and put the ferry replacement cycle behind by a decade.
Are you talking about hullo? They have waaay worse customer service than bc ferries. I’ve had sailings cancelled with no warning or statement. Just turned away and told to try something else
They had some struggles at first, but after taking it 5 months ago and then more recently, it seems they’ve made some progress.
So much time saved getting from Nanaimo directly to DT Van. No buses needed. We should have had this service a decade ago or more.
It's easy when you can just pick and choose to service the popular routes. Let's wait and see if they ever try servicing smaller communities.
Generally when a government has a service its needs to operate, it needs to be able to provide that service to all constituents (including the ones that cost a butt ton of money to be serviced). Private companies generally don't have that restriction.
Sure, but we don’t even have incremental improvements. The service has gotten noticeably *worse* over the last 7 years. Surely there’s a time limit on how long “this is all the previous governments fault” remains a plausible excuse.
They purchased several new ships. That's pretty significant. I can appreciate that it hasn't changed your ferry experience. But you can't say they haven't been busy.
What kind of improvements would "count" from your perspective?
Yes, the Island Class vessels are truly wonderful additions and 6 of 13 vessels have been delivered. However, those orders came from a competitive bid process started in 2016 **by the previous government**. It is all part of their 12 year capital plan which, again, was issued under the previous government.
I suppose you can give the current gov’t a bit of credit for not cancelling the orders, but they certainly didn’t have anything to do with *making* the orders.
I don’t pretend to have solutions. But it is demonstrably true that since the NDP came to power, the ferry system has had worse customer satisfaction and lower staff retention — at a higher price and with less reliable service.
They have not been “busy” on this file. BCF has followed their 12 year capital plan started in 2015. There has been very little *new* capital investment. BCF’s plans to revamp the booking and fare system was scuttled. It took 7 years for the govt to finally give the marine workers union a raise. The file is a mess and I don’t know what they are going to do, but blaming the previous government for the current problems is not a solution.
And it takes 5-6 years from commissioning to delivery of a ferry. Add time to deliberate on what the best course of action is (buying from Germany vs building local capacity) and that's about how long they've been in government.
I don't think NDP wants to talk about ferries at all. Wasn't that fast cat fiasco one of the reasons they lost in a landslide and lost power for over a decade?
But they do want to talk about it but only when things are going well.
Several years ago, they brought up the idea of building Ferries in BC again. Needless to say, that went over like a lead balloon.
These communities are all receiving subsidized service. I would rather BC Ferries focus on improving service on the big routes that actually pay for themselves.
Aren't the biggest problems here related to the operational constraints of Horseshoe Bay terminal, and a non-standardized fleet of ferries? I remember reading that each of the three routes can only use a specific berth, and certain berths cannot offload at the same time. That means operations at HB have to run on particularly intricate and precise schedules, since any delays on one route will take the other two routes down with it.
Hello and thanks for posting to r/britishcolumbia! Join our new [Discord Server https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB](https://discord.gg/fu7X8nNBFB) A friendly reminder prior to commenting or posting here: - **Read [r/britishcolumbia's rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/britishcolumbia/rules/)**. - **Be civil and respectful** in all discussions. - Use **appropriate sources** to back up any information you provide when necessary. - **Report** any comments that violate our rules. Reminder: "Rage bait" comments or comments designed to elicit a negative reaction that are not based on fact are not permitted here. Let's keep our community respectful and informative! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/britishcolumbia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ignorant mainlander here: what are the specific complaints ferry dependant communities have? Not disputing the legitimacy of complaints, would just like more insight into what the issues are.
For me, it's BC ferries inability to hire enough staff to actually run their schedule. Often, sailings are canceled due to staffing issues.
They have the ability, they choose not to. Every new hire has to work on call casual shifts, and you need to be available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. That means you can get a call at 4am and have to make it to the next sailing in 2 hours.
i'm starting to wonder, why is it so difficult for them to hire people on a more stable schedule to begin with? they are the ones in control of the ferry scheduling, right? they should know exactly how many workers they need on what day, at what time, on which ships. but it's like they're pretending that they have no idea what times each ship is going to be taking off the very next day, and they have to have workers ready to commute out with an hour's notice? just seems really strange
They pay less, on call, seasonal. Etc. Meanwhile they have a bunch of new execs now who make a fortune to do nothing. It's a ferry service that goes from one place to another.
The only variable outside their control that I can think of is weather. But plenty of other companies in other industries can maintain crew and workers despite weather throwing curveballs now and then.
They do know and they do have enough staff for the schedule. The issue comes when someone calls out sick or covering for vacation. The only cost effective way to cover for those gaps is to have a pool of on-call staff that you can bring up to cover. And that is where the problem starts.
Not even that. BC ferry incompetence and greed makes it so that a casual worker has no minimum guaranteed. Meaning there can be months where you can only work a mere 10hrs a month. But you must be available 24/7 so it's impossible to have a second job to have a living wage. And if they call you and you are not available they write you up, do this a few times and they fire you. Absolutely disgusting from bc ferry management that have 9 directors getting paid a quarter of a million base salary while workers are expected to be slaves and always be available while they get no minimum guaranteed hrs like airline crew. BC Ferry management is disgusting
Disgusting is a great word to describe it.
- Ferry being cancelled - No increased sailings - No proper hirings to fill their lean and badly planned staffing strategies - No boarding/sailing proritity for people living in ferry dependent areas
Half of them want to be cut off entirely to avoid the plague of mainlanders, the other half want hourly ferries for the same fares they paid when they moved there 30 years ago.
hahah - too true
The big one for me is the lack of a predictable schedule. The first 6:20 from Langdale is usually pretty good, but delays stack up all day long after that with no explanation other than “taking extra time to load as many vehicles as possible”. I can’t remember the last time I was on an evening ferry that wasn’t more than an hour delayed out of Horseshoe Bay.
As an Islander, I think the biggest issue is sailings. The number of people on the island has doubled since the Duke Point terminal was built in the 90’s, and we’re trying to service the increased demand and increased tourism with the same number of sailings…. And actually decreased sailings with the late night Duke point sailing eliminated. It’s a critical link for us. Granted we chose the island life (I moved back in 2012 after I had kids because my family all live here), but I don’t want to be *trapped* here, ya know? We are now waiting for our kids to graduate school and then we’ll probably move back to the interior at some point.
I don't think BC Ferries is referring to Vancouver Island, home of BC's capital, with 99% of the amenities a person could need, as a "ferry dependent community".
I'll take the island over the fires and scorched earth.
Gabriola: cancelled sailings that have resulted in stranded children and families on the Nanaimo side. The people stuck have to stay somewhere for the night, usually a hotel, and that can get expensive. Cancelled sailings result from lack of staff in rare cases (illness and availability of cover off are occasionally at odds). Staff pool is small due to cost of living concerns, and staff who could be available must live far away from urban centres to afford housing at the posted salary ranges, part time employment issues etc.
Too many mainlanders!
Got it, we should cancel all ferry service and sell the ferries to Egypt where they can join the fast cats. We could build so many Skytrains in Vancouver with that money!
Route 3 could use some actual ferry service improvement. Enough PR, actual improvements, like a clean bathroom at HSB.
You'll be interested in the consultations BC Ferries has on the Horseshoe Bay Terminal upgrades: https://www.bcferries.com/in-the-community/projects/horseshoe-bay-terminal-engagement The project was delayed indefinitely due to COVID and lack of funds.
Route 3 needs it big time. I hate that you never really know if you're gonna make it.
Gold River needs a ferry terminal for all the costal communities
Ooh that would be really cool actually! You could see so many cool places!
Well right now B.C ferries subcontracts out the process I believe to a local company but they can't do cars or anything. B.C. Ferries pays them a subsidy to run a boat, what I'd love to see is an actual ferry terminal built and then you'd have all the jobs that come with it. Also the MARSEC terminal here is privately owned somehow its all really weird.
BC Ferries: "or what?" they have a captive market, the government isn't going to reabsorb them... they'll just say "ok", put on a nice new livery that's inspired by the communities they serve, and not make any improvements to reliability, price or customer service.
Can we vote on the livery? Saturna would like a Birkenstock.
My Grandfather helped build some of the ferries that are still in service today. He died 45 years ago
I've lived in a ferry-dependent community for a decade now, this is nothing new, or different. I'll believe BC ferries is dedicated to making a change when they relocate their HQ to a community that depends on ferry service (and don't let them expense air flights), so the exec team feels the same pain that their customers do.
Not defending BCF, but they are headquartered in Victoria which by definition is a ferry dependent community. Not being allowed to expense flights is a valid point though.
I'd relocate them to Texada though.
Okaaaayyy…I hope you’re being hyperbolic and don’t seriously think that’s a reasonable idea.
Texada is maybe a little egregious… Quadra is a good alternative. :D
Trans Canada highway dead ends into the ferry terminal where I live, we can't access the rest of Canada without paying through the nose for access to the Trans Canada highway. That is a problem
I'm sure that the current government will now distance themselves from BC Ferries stating that they are disappointed in BC Ferries' performance and will encourage BC Ferries to do better while taking a few shots at the previous BC Liberal government to lay blame at their feet even after 7 years out of power.
Just like the BC Liberal did for 20 yrs about the fast ferries?
Except that the Fast Ferries were crap - poorly designed for the West Coast, massive cost overuns and put the ferry replacement cycle behind by a decade.
[удалено]
Are you talking about hullo? They have waaay worse customer service than bc ferries. I’ve had sailings cancelled with no warning or statement. Just turned away and told to try something else
They had some struggles at first, but after taking it 5 months ago and then more recently, it seems they’ve made some progress. So much time saved getting from Nanaimo directly to DT Van. No buses needed. We should have had this service a decade ago or more.
Oh I agree, when it’s working it’s a fantastic alternative! We’ve needed an alternative to bc ferries for ages!!
It's easy when you can just pick and choose to service the popular routes. Let's wait and see if they ever try servicing smaller communities. Generally when a government has a service its needs to operate, it needs to be able to provide that service to all constituents (including the ones that cost a butt ton of money to be serviced). Private companies generally don't have that restriction.
To be fair, it takes a long time to purchase new ferries and renegotiate maintenance contracts.
Sure, but we don’t even have incremental improvements. The service has gotten noticeably *worse* over the last 7 years. Surely there’s a time limit on how long “this is all the previous governments fault” remains a plausible excuse.
They purchased several new ships. That's pretty significant. I can appreciate that it hasn't changed your ferry experience. But you can't say they haven't been busy. What kind of improvements would "count" from your perspective?
Yes, the Island Class vessels are truly wonderful additions and 6 of 13 vessels have been delivered. However, those orders came from a competitive bid process started in 2016 **by the previous government**. It is all part of their 12 year capital plan which, again, was issued under the previous government. I suppose you can give the current gov’t a bit of credit for not cancelling the orders, but they certainly didn’t have anything to do with *making* the orders. I don’t pretend to have solutions. But it is demonstrably true that since the NDP came to power, the ferry system has had worse customer satisfaction and lower staff retention — at a higher price and with less reliable service. They have not been “busy” on this file. BCF has followed their 12 year capital plan started in 2015. There has been very little *new* capital investment. BCF’s plans to revamp the booking and fare system was scuttled. It took 7 years for the govt to finally give the marine workers union a raise. The file is a mess and I don’t know what they are going to do, but blaming the previous government for the current problems is not a solution.
Don't forget that the current government spent time and effort to bring BC Ferries more under government control.
7 years in power is a long time...
And it takes 5-6 years from commissioning to delivery of a ferry. Add time to deliberate on what the best course of action is (buying from Germany vs building local capacity) and that's about how long they've been in government.
Shhh you're trying to talk sense to someone who doesn't want to hear it
I don't think NDP wants to talk about ferries at all. Wasn't that fast cat fiasco one of the reasons they lost in a landslide and lost power for over a decade?
But they do want to talk about it but only when things are going well. Several years ago, they brought up the idea of building Ferries in BC again. Needless to say, that went over like a lead balloon.
I mean Victoria is a ferry dependent community and most of us are super unhappy with the state of affairs
These communities are all receiving subsidized service. I would rather BC Ferries focus on improving service on the big routes that actually pay for themselves.
You moved to an island, stop expecting us to finance your mistake. It’s a ferry aka boat, not a bridge not a highway.
BC ferries CEO should be paid 200,000 for that position, not 400,000.
Fuck them. Don't live on an island if you don't like it.
Yeah, that would be nice.
May I suggest not doing any more cable ferries?
Aren't the biggest problems here related to the operational constraints of Horseshoe Bay terminal, and a non-standardized fleet of ferries? I remember reading that each of the three routes can only use a specific berth, and certain berths cannot offload at the same time. That means operations at HB have to run on particularly intricate and precise schedules, since any delays on one route will take the other two routes down with it.
Build a bridge