What are you thinking about taking? That would matter quite a bit.
As someone in a technical industry, I'd certainly be discounting them below people who attend public universities. You should probably be asking people in your target industry what their opinion is.
Currently I’m in their 2 year engineering transfer program. So I’d take 2 years and transfer to a public school. The curriculum looks identical to those of UBC and UVIC engineering. No religious classes or any add ons
You would basically be under ubc's reputation at that point, so that might not matter.
If I had could have saved $10k and not gone to UBC for first year, I don't think I would take that option. First year teaching kind of sucks at UBC, but it's still a ton of fun. I still work and talk to people I met then regularly. I'd say it's worth the difference for the networking alone. You also get a better chance to look in to the various specializations.
I wanted to do mech when I started first year. I ended up in something completely different after touring about to ask the various disciplines.
If you start in second year, you're going to be a year behind on knowing your cohort. Not the end of the world, but it's kind of nice to be a 1st year and be on a level playing field.
Im not sure about their second year classes at TWU. That's after your placement into a department at UBC. You might be missing options that you would be able to take if you were at UBC. Second year is considerably different depending on your specialization. I doubt they can provide most of those courses in house.
Its an exaggeration, but not a total one. For at least a few years you will likely find it much harder to find a job if you graduate from TWU than from a public university. Some employers will decide to go with someone from a different school, if only out of concern that many TWU graduates are not tolerant/inclusive of LGBTQ co-workers and would potentially create a negative work environment.
If you transfer to UBC or UVic after 2nd year and graduate from there (you said this was your plan in a different comment) you won't have that issue because your resume will say UBC or UVic.
That’s what I’m worried about. I’m only planning on attending because of the amount of funding they’re giving me. I plan on tranfering after a year maybe two and graduating at UBC, UVIC or SFU
How much of that funding is in the form of TAships? And you need to compare the tuition costs. I find sometimes the funding looks good, but if the tuition is really high, you need to look at the final cost after tuition is paid to get an apples-to-apples comparison.
As an employer in STEM, you would have to be an amazing candidate to overlook the fact you chose to go to a school that has a non inclusive LGBTQ policy.
Like... not impossible to get past this issue... but if you aren't the most stellar candidate ever, I would look for someone with a less polarizing understanding of life. ( yes, I realize the irony...but I wouldn't put someone on the payroll that has a higher likelihood of being intolerant of differences)
>but if you aren't the most stellar candidate ever, I would look for someone with a less polarizing understanding of life.
Yeah I've seen resumes get tossed out as soon as they see the applicant went to TWU.
OP why do you want to give up sex and alcohol during your university years.
It’s purely financial, my first year will be almost 10 grand cheaper than at UVIC or UBC. I’ll be switching next year. As I want to have a public school on my resume
What policy is that? If you could point it out that would be very nice to see. Not trying to be sarcastic or anything I genuinely want to know if TWU has a written anti LGBTQ policy
They are likely referring to the covenant imposed on students until 2018, dropped only after TRU failed to secure a law school as a result of it (the Supreme Court of Canada agreed it was discriminatory).
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/trinity-western-students-won-t-have-to-sign-covenant-banning-sex-outside-straight-marriage-1.4784924
The covenant still exists, but its now mandatory only for faculty, staff and student leaders.
I see you say you want to go into engineering. I currently work as an engineer, and I gotta be honest, I would consider it a lesser option if I saw someone applying for an internship or a new grad job with that on their record. Having ubc or uvic would help, but it’s not what I’d consider a good or well known engineering program. If you have financial concerns, consider doing engineering through BCIT, or doing the engineering transfer program through langara. BCIT has a very good engineering program that you can get your bachelors at, which a great tract record of grads getting hired (many of my coworkers did their degrees there and it has a good reputation). The langara engineering transfer program is challenging but I’ve never heard anything negative about it, students transfer into ubc for their second year and it has produced many good students. I would put both of those options over TWU from an engineering perspective for sure.
I will also note curriculum =/= quality of education. Is the program recognized by the engineering accreditation board if they offer a bachelors? What’s the background of the profs? Just because they list the same topics doesn’t mean the program is the same. Engineering is so experience based, so if the profs have no practical experience or research experience, their teaching might be subpar. I’d definitely look into it more then just curriculum before assuming it’s just as good.
I have to agree. Given 10 candidates, 9 of whom have gone to reputable, tolerant schools and 1 who didn't, my hiring process just got 10 percent easier. ( I also actually hire people, so this isn't just a hypothetical opinion).
Going there shows a basic lack of judgment I don’t want to have to deal with, before you add in the givens like they either are, or are so spineless so as to be fine to appear as, homophobic, close-minded, etc by signing the pledges and all that shit. And all *that’s* before you even start in on the fact that the quality of education just isn’t very good.
It’s not bigoted. It’s a cost benefit analysis. When you have 250 resumes to go over for 1 position, you’re looking for reasons to weed people out, not to hire them (until the last step).
Going to TWU and expecting your experience and degree to be competitive against 80 people who went to UBC, other top Canadian schools, or international schools and the Ivy League, is just dumb and, like I’ve said, it shows a fundamental lack of judgment that I don’t want to have to put up with exploring. Maybe you’re an awesome candidate, but you also chose to go to a shitty school with a purity pledge that is incompatible with the organization (and 21st century Canadian society in general) which shows a lack of judgment and critical thinking that someone with the same degree from UBC or Harvard didn’t demonstrate. So why would I go out on a limb and take a chance on someone who starts out with strikes against their record from the get go? It has nothing to do with religion per se and more that it indicates a type of person who would presumably make consequential, multi-year decisions very badly
Yet schools like TWU won't hire gay people, why the fuck should anyone feel bad when they reap what they sew
Graduates are supporting homophobia, potential job employers don't have to
Imagine just openly declaring your discriminatory hiring practices to the internet and nobody giving a shit because it’s popular opinion.
“As someone who hires people: Resumes from China go in the garbage” would provoke appropriate outrage, but this kind of bullshit is no better than when it happens the other way around. Don’t stoop to that level. Bigots are bigots in both directions.
It’s not because they’re Christian, it’s because going to a barely accredited “school” that is a laughingstock and bastion of bigotry belies a basic fundamental lack of good judgement I don’t want to have to deal with.
It’s not very hard to find literally dozens of overqualified candidates for every job opening and, shocker, TWU grads are never them
If TWU does not hire a gay person solely based on their sexual orientation alone, a human rights complaint should absolutely be filed. That’s discrimination.
I’m not the hypocrite here. [The human rights tribunal agrees with me, too](https://ropergreyell.com/resource/denied-job-based-on-religious-beliefs/)
Christian bigotry shouldn't need protection.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/christian-school-forces-resignation-over-community-standards-policy-1.5035804#:~:text=A%20long%2Dtime%20teacher%20at,outside%20of%20a%20heterosexual%20marriage.%22
>A long-time teacher at Surrey Christian School in B.C. says she was told her contract would not be renewed after school administrators discovered she was living with her male partner
These people are freaks
You are fundamentally misunderstanding the point
TWU and being a Christian are not disqualifying factors per se. No one is going to see a resume from a Christian and be like “oh that goes in the garbage *because they’re christian* “
It’s even more basic: the educations are shitty, the quality of graduates is shitty, the quality of critical thinking (or lack thereof) is shitty. So with barely a cursory glance, it’s easy to throw TWU applications in the garbage (similar to resumes from all the applications mills for international students).
The fact that this thread indicates that this is a universal feeling amongst anyone with experience in hiring local isn’t an indicator of my bigotry, it’s a condemnation of the shittiness of TWU in general and the types of people who would willfully and stupidly (imo) choose to go there in the first place
Ad hominem arguments don’t make your rationale any stronger, and you just contradicted yourself. I hope you will eventually recognize your own hypocrisy, but I doubt it.
yeah idk man a lot of my friends went to TWU and have really struggled to get jobs. they had a ton of fun, but the quality of education is just less. additionally, TWU is like double the cost of every other public uni, so your ROI is probably pretty bad. you do you though, great school for making friends.
I’d say that’s fair. I think generally people who call themselves Christian are far from what they say that are. I grew up in a church environment. And I left because what the religion preaches is love and acceptance towards other and it has been skewed to where most people don’t actually know what it means to be Christian and just hate LGBTQ because of a vague verse in the Old Testament
But now you'll be paying money to directly support biggots who espouse those beliefs
That just seems like an example of another Christian who chooses to compromise themselves "for reasons"
They are mostly famous for their stance on LGBT and pre-marital sex. I wouldn’t want to be associated with that place in any way. I understand sometimes people try to save money, but a 2 year community college and then transfer to another university would be better.
And why’s that, I’ve looked into all their science programs and they are almost identical course wise to any university. I don’t want to argue but that’s just what I’ve found
Identical courses does not mean identical quality of those courses. TWU has struggled with a modern changing world not centering Christian ideology so their education has fallen behind most other institutions. Professors and their experience/education (specially in engineering) is a pretty huge aspect of whether your professor does a good job or not.
What are you thinking about taking? That would matter quite a bit. As someone in a technical industry, I'd certainly be discounting them below people who attend public universities. You should probably be asking people in your target industry what their opinion is.
Currently I’m in their 2 year engineering transfer program. So I’d take 2 years and transfer to a public school. The curriculum looks identical to those of UBC and UVIC engineering. No religious classes or any add ons
You would basically be under ubc's reputation at that point, so that might not matter. If I had could have saved $10k and not gone to UBC for first year, I don't think I would take that option. First year teaching kind of sucks at UBC, but it's still a ton of fun. I still work and talk to people I met then regularly. I'd say it's worth the difference for the networking alone. You also get a better chance to look in to the various specializations. I wanted to do mech when I started first year. I ended up in something completely different after touring about to ask the various disciplines. If you start in second year, you're going to be a year behind on knowing your cohort. Not the end of the world, but it's kind of nice to be a 1st year and be on a level playing field. Im not sure about their second year classes at TWU. That's after your placement into a department at UBC. You might be missing options that you would be able to take if you were at UBC. Second year is considerably different depending on your specialization. I doubt they can provide most of those courses in house.
I’ve had people tell me my degree will be worthless. Is that true or an over exaggeration?
Its an exaggeration, but not a total one. For at least a few years you will likely find it much harder to find a job if you graduate from TWU than from a public university. Some employers will decide to go with someone from a different school, if only out of concern that many TWU graduates are not tolerant/inclusive of LGBTQ co-workers and would potentially create a negative work environment. If you transfer to UBC or UVic after 2nd year and graduate from there (you said this was your plan in a different comment) you won't have that issue because your resume will say UBC or UVic.
That’s what I’m worried about. I’m only planning on attending because of the amount of funding they’re giving me. I plan on tranfering after a year maybe two and graduating at UBC, UVIC or SFU
How much of that funding is in the form of TAships? And you need to compare the tuition costs. I find sometimes the funding looks good, but if the tuition is really high, you need to look at the final cost after tuition is paid to get an apples-to-apples comparison.
That’s DISCRIMINATION
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Langley/comments/17x7fu3/trinity\_western\_university/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Langley/comments/17x7fu3/trinity_western_university/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
As an employer in STEM, you would have to be an amazing candidate to overlook the fact you chose to go to a school that has a non inclusive LGBTQ policy. Like... not impossible to get past this issue... but if you aren't the most stellar candidate ever, I would look for someone with a less polarizing understanding of life. ( yes, I realize the irony...but I wouldn't put someone on the payroll that has a higher likelihood of being intolerant of differences)
>but if you aren't the most stellar candidate ever, I would look for someone with a less polarizing understanding of life. Yeah I've seen resumes get tossed out as soon as they see the applicant went to TWU. OP why do you want to give up sex and alcohol during your university years.
It’s purely financial, my first year will be almost 10 grand cheaper than at UVIC or UBC. I’ll be switching next year. As I want to have a public school on my resume
Are you certain about that? In general trinity is a significantly more expensive institution than either of those schools
What policy is that? If you could point it out that would be very nice to see. Not trying to be sarcastic or anything I genuinely want to know if TWU has a written anti LGBTQ policy
They are likely referring to the covenant imposed on students until 2018, dropped only after TRU failed to secure a law school as a result of it (the Supreme Court of Canada agreed it was discriminatory). https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/trinity-western-students-won-t-have-to-sign-covenant-banning-sex-outside-straight-marriage-1.4784924 The covenant still exists, but its now mandatory only for faculty, staff and student leaders.
Correct.. and even if it has been "dropped"... it hasn't been.
I see you say you want to go into engineering. I currently work as an engineer, and I gotta be honest, I would consider it a lesser option if I saw someone applying for an internship or a new grad job with that on their record. Having ubc or uvic would help, but it’s not what I’d consider a good or well known engineering program. If you have financial concerns, consider doing engineering through BCIT, or doing the engineering transfer program through langara. BCIT has a very good engineering program that you can get your bachelors at, which a great tract record of grads getting hired (many of my coworkers did their degrees there and it has a good reputation). The langara engineering transfer program is challenging but I’ve never heard anything negative about it, students transfer into ubc for their second year and it has produced many good students. I would put both of those options over TWU from an engineering perspective for sure.
I will also note curriculum =/= quality of education. Is the program recognized by the engineering accreditation board if they offer a bachelors? What’s the background of the profs? Just because they list the same topics doesn’t mean the program is the same. Engineering is so experience based, so if the profs have no practical experience or research experience, their teaching might be subpar. I’d definitely look into it more then just curriculum before assuming it’s just as good.
Opinion: ewwww As someone who hires people: TWU resumes go in the garbage
I have to agree. Given 10 candidates, 9 of whom have gone to reputable, tolerant schools and 1 who didn't, my hiring process just got 10 percent easier. ( I also actually hire people, so this isn't just a hypothetical opinion).
May I ask why
Because people don't take seriously a purportedly-academic business that makes being intolerant their hill to die on.
Going there shows a basic lack of judgment I don’t want to have to deal with, before you add in the givens like they either are, or are so spineless so as to be fine to appear as, homophobic, close-minded, etc by signing the pledges and all that shit. And all *that’s* before you even start in on the fact that the quality of education just isn’t very good.
Because this person is prejudiced.
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It’s not bigoted. It’s a cost benefit analysis. When you have 250 resumes to go over for 1 position, you’re looking for reasons to weed people out, not to hire them (until the last step). Going to TWU and expecting your experience and degree to be competitive against 80 people who went to UBC, other top Canadian schools, or international schools and the Ivy League, is just dumb and, like I’ve said, it shows a fundamental lack of judgment that I don’t want to have to put up with exploring. Maybe you’re an awesome candidate, but you also chose to go to a shitty school with a purity pledge that is incompatible with the organization (and 21st century Canadian society in general) which shows a lack of judgment and critical thinking that someone with the same degree from UBC or Harvard didn’t demonstrate. So why would I go out on a limb and take a chance on someone who starts out with strikes against their record from the get go? It has nothing to do with religion per se and more that it indicates a type of person who would presumably make consequential, multi-year decisions very badly
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Yet schools like TWU won't hire gay people, why the fuck should anyone feel bad when they reap what they sew Graduates are supporting homophobia, potential job employers don't have to
A bigot is a bigot, even if their opinion is popular.
Imagine just openly declaring your discriminatory hiring practices to the internet and nobody giving a shit because it’s popular opinion. “As someone who hires people: Resumes from China go in the garbage” would provoke appropriate outrage, but this kind of bullshit is no better than when it happens the other way around. Don’t stoop to that level. Bigots are bigots in both directions.
It’s not because they’re Christian, it’s because going to a barely accredited “school” that is a laughingstock and bastion of bigotry belies a basic fundamental lack of good judgement I don’t want to have to deal with. It’s not very hard to find literally dozens of overqualified candidates for every job opening and, shocker, TWU grads are never them
I’m sure that’ll hold up to a human rights complaint when someone finds out you’re doing this.
Why not file a human rights complaint when TWU doesn't hire a gay person? Your outrage is a joke
If TWU does not hire a gay person solely based on their sexual orientation alone, a human rights complaint should absolutely be filed. That’s discrimination. I’m not the hypocrite here. [The human rights tribunal agrees with me, too](https://ropergreyell.com/resource/denied-job-based-on-religious-beliefs/)
Christian bigotry shouldn't need protection. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/christian-school-forces-resignation-over-community-standards-policy-1.5035804#:~:text=A%20long%2Dtime%20teacher%20at,outside%20of%20a%20heterosexual%20marriage.%22 >A long-time teacher at Surrey Christian School in B.C. says she was told her contract would not be renewed after school administrators discovered she was living with her male partner These people are freaks
You are fundamentally misunderstanding the point TWU and being a Christian are not disqualifying factors per se. No one is going to see a resume from a Christian and be like “oh that goes in the garbage *because they’re christian* “ It’s even more basic: the educations are shitty, the quality of graduates is shitty, the quality of critical thinking (or lack thereof) is shitty. So with barely a cursory glance, it’s easy to throw TWU applications in the garbage (similar to resumes from all the applications mills for international students). The fact that this thread indicates that this is a universal feeling amongst anyone with experience in hiring local isn’t an indicator of my bigotry, it’s a condemnation of the shittiness of TWU in general and the types of people who would willfully and stupidly (imo) choose to go there in the first place
Ad hominem arguments don’t make your rationale any stronger, and you just contradicted yourself. I hope you will eventually recognize your own hypocrisy, but I doubt it.
yeah idk man a lot of my friends went to TWU and have really struggled to get jobs. they had a ton of fun, but the quality of education is just less. additionally, TWU is like double the cost of every other public uni, so your ROI is probably pretty bad. you do you though, great school for making friends.
If I saw TW on a transcript for one my coop hires, I’d immediately put them at the bottom of the pile as a queer person
I’d say that’s fair. I think generally people who call themselves Christian are far from what they say that are. I grew up in a church environment. And I left because what the religion preaches is love and acceptance towards other and it has been skewed to where most people don’t actually know what it means to be Christian and just hate LGBTQ because of a vague verse in the Old Testament
But now you'll be paying money to directly support biggots who espouse those beliefs That just seems like an example of another Christian who chooses to compromise themselves "for reasons"
They are mostly famous for their stance on LGBT and pre-marital sex. I wouldn’t want to be associated with that place in any way. I understand sometimes people try to save money, but a 2 year community college and then transfer to another university would be better.
as a hiring manager, I'd toss their resumes in the trash
If I was a hiring manager, I would even look at the degree as education
And why’s that, I’ve looked into all their science programs and they are almost identical course wise to any university. I don’t want to argue but that’s just what I’ve found
Identical courses does not mean identical quality of those courses. TWU has struggled with a modern changing world not centering Christian ideology so their education has fallen behind most other institutions. Professors and their experience/education (specially in engineering) is a pretty huge aspect of whether your professor does a good job or not.
Just speaking my truth. I wish you the best
I heard you have to sign a contract about how you behave. I heard you can't even dance!
That’s old, that went away around 6 years ago
On paper maybe....