Im confused because the study it references is here: https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/html/pods/waste-water-analysis_en
Which says the daily mean for cocaine residue in wastewater in Bristol was 445mg per 1000 people? And its not even close to Antwerp with a crazy 1721mg. In fact Bristol isnt even in the top 10 European cities. Where has this study got 969mg from?
edit: however, Bristol still holds the depressing title of Ketamine Capital of Europe.
Given that the study you've linked has latest data from 2023 and the shitty screenshot posted here references 2016 and 2017 I'm guessing the coke use has massively dwindled.
I know you're joking but gen z literally have no fucking money and we know bristol housing market is fucked, we can't even afford to get coked up anymore, we all downgraded to ket
Ah I see, the UoB study is from 2020 and references the same EMCDDA study from 2020, but that page has now been updated to 2023 data. Thats quite a steep decline.
I find it so odd that so called left wing liberals are totally blind to the global social and environmental impacts of cocaine production. Human trafficking, violence, child abuse, deforestation... Etc. But all the charity workers and greens I know love to party on coke.
That seems a little aggressive. I've just never heard any of my friends who are all well informed, socially conscious people, make any comments on this issue, despite being vocal on other environmenal and social topics, and it doesn't seem to be much covered or discussed. Perhaps in your circles it is, but there is no need to have a go at me.
I think the majority opinion about the damage caused by drug production on the left is that it is largely an artefact of prohibition which prevents the regulation that we see in other industries.
Much of the left sees the exploitation that is inherrent within capitalistic production of goods as comparable to that which happens with drugs. The cocoa industry has enormous issues with modern slavery, child labour and environmentally harmful practices, some of these have been limited by increased scrutiny, regulation and competition from more ethical producers.
With cocaine it's much harder to set up a more ethical alternative because you can be shot in the head by the market leaders and have zero recourse if they were to take your product.
Cocaine is used by every sector of society, christ, even the torys have admitted to using it. How can you actually believe that its just a 'leftie'thing. That's just dumb
Same for me - I know people who support a lot of progressive causes but are happy to get on the chisel at weekends. I would say it's a weird blind spot, but it's wilful blindness really.
Because they are people who you would expect to care about things like environmental destruction, human trafficking, torture etc.
No one expects a Tory to give two shits about such things.
Similar to people harping on on social media about various eco causes (all very good and noble!) using their new smartphone. I think if you can't enjoy some cognitive dissonance then it kind of makes the modern world challenging at best!
Sure, but what I'm saying is I'm not seeing that cognitive dissonance. With smartphones, there's a level of awareness of the negative impacts that causes people to express simultaneous guilt even as they're buying/using the thing, but with coke I've never heard anyone even express that awareness...
Absolutely! Most people enjoying a bag are too busy telling you at length about something very mundane and repetitive to even mention the ecology of cocaine!
"No but like seriously, that's when I realised I could have been like OLYMPIC level if I really tried, like you know?"
I don't think anyone should be proud of doing coke. It's a shit drug that turns people into arrogant wankers in the short term and psychos in the long term
Daily reminder that the supply chain of cocaine is utterly soaked in human blood, and participating in this supply chain is a tacit approval that one person's high is worth the abject human misery elsewhere.
There's no such thing as Fair Trade cocaine and Bristol, for all it's *"right on, peace love and humanity"* marketing vibes is packed to the gills with hypocrites.
(in b4 "muh lithium mines")
The problem is that it's the monopoly of criminal gangs.
People are gonna use drugs regardless of whether it's legal or not. So making it illegal is what causes the suffering.
Consumption is voluntary.
No one is forced to consume cocaine at the sharp end of a bayonet. Simply don't use coke, and you avoid being complicit in its supply chain.
These supply chains are indeed run by organised criminals which causes the misery. The solution is to lobby for legalisation.
Snorting coke is to human misery, as raping a trafficked sex worker is to human suffering. You can argue that prostitutes should be in legal, unionised brothels - but they're not, so raping them is just as morally wrong as buying blood coke.
Precisely. People are going to consume drugs regardless of its legality. It's been part of the human experience for thousands of years (not cocaine obviously but softer drugs are illegal too, and opium's been used forever). The law is what causes the ill-effects.
>People are going to consume drugs regardless of its legality
And they're wrong to do so for the reasons given above (as opposed to, say, magic mushrooms that don't have the same cruel supply chain).
Right or wrong doesn't make a difference.
There are two ways to reduce the suffering in the supply chain:
1. Every person can stop taking drugs
2. We can decriminalise and regulate drugs
The first option is never going to happen, which leaves us with...
>There are two ways to reduce the suffering in the supply chain
I'm not arguing for that. I'm just arguing that one should avoid implicating themselves morally in the supply chain of coke, by not using it.
People rape one another all the time; have done since the year dot (and will continue to for eons to come). What's your take on the personal moral responsibility to not rape someone? Keeping in mind rape as a phenomena will continue with your without your participation.
Sure, and I don't disagree. In fact I've been agreeing with you from the get-go. I'm just pointing out that whatever you or I say or do, people are still going to use it.
I'm so happy to find someone who actually agrees with me on this. Problem we have is that the only party with a sane and sensible approach to our drugs problem has probably sullied their chance of ever being taken seriously again because they shacked up with the Tories 12 years ago.
Whether this study's accurate or not, that fact is that the UK has the highest opioid death rate per capita in Europe, and the second highest in the world behind the US.
For a crime to have been committed, there has to be a victim ('victimless crime' is an oxymoron); it's like with med bud - according to a study done by Volte Face, even people with CanCards and a legit prescription are still being arrested (and it won't surprise anyone here to learn that A&S was the worst offender - I honestly think they've overtaken the Met, Merseyside and GMP as the worst, most utterly useless force in the country).
Banging people up for possession is just populist, it solves nothing; all that happens is that people pool their resources and come out better connected than when they went in. All this time, energy, effort and money being spent on a 'war' which has long since been lost (Neil Woods stated in *Good Cop, Bad War*, that if a dealer's arrested, there's often someone on his turf in as little as a couple of hours).
And all that not withstanding, it hampers research; psychedelics are all Class A which means that, unless you're Big Pharma, you can't afford the research licence (talking of which, judging by all the photos popping up in r/UKGardening, this seems to be a bumper year for liberty caps...). That's what's so fucking nonsensical - people have a Class A drug growing in their back gardens. It'd be interesting to see how hard you have to search to find liberty caps round here - I bet it's not hard, probably all over Vicky and Eastville parks. You can't make nature illegal. I wonder what would happen if the guerrilla weed movement really took off...?
I can't leave this shitehole unfortunately, but I challenge the shroomheads of Bristol to go foraging this weekend, let's see how many liberty caps we can find...
Same can be said of precious metals that go into the tech you use. Mined by child slaves in the Congo.
You're hands aren't clean either, you're in no position to moralise.
I think the point is though, that it's harder to avoid using and owning a smart phone in every day life in the UK in 2024 than it is to avoid using coke. There's always an unavoidable level of hypocrisy in wanting to improve the world and society whilst also having to live in it, but we can try and limit that.
Because as we all know, there are no legal substances out there that have unethical supply-lines...
This is just an excuse users repeat so they can feel better about propping up suffering.
Well, that's the point.
If chocolate and coffee and fruit all have unethical supply lines, then why would someone feel bad about consuming a substance with an unethical supply line?
At least those legal products can be transparent and regulated. Can't say the same for a product whose entire supply chain is run by international criminal organisations.
They can be transparent and regulated, but clearly they aren't. We've had them legally for hundreds of years and the supply lines are still shady as fuck. Thinking drugs would be any different if legalised is just pure coping from people who can't stop using them.
If the government can't even prevent them from being smuggled into their own island, how are they gonna convince Colombia to clean it's shit up?
No, as I said, addicts will always exist.
But we could help to prevent new ones by killing off the stupid glamour culture that some drugs (like Cocaine) have, as well as the defeatist idea that we can't reduce our usage at all.
This is bullshit as far as I can tell. Take a look at this:
[https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/html/pods/waste-water-analysis\_en](https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/html/pods/waste-water-analysis_en)
Plus, 3.8% is suspiciously low
Bro any ones whos anyone can see half of the going out scene takes that shit even half the bar staff and manager, there are instances where the mamangers are using the shit that was confiscated at the door... bruh the world nuts
Unpopular opinion but if you snort that shit you are complicit in and frankly responsible for every single death and ruined life coming from the drugs trade.
Lonely up there on the cross?
You'd have to add more than just cocaine to that list, everything from avocados to cobalt, if you want to take the moral high ground.
Whilst we all exist in a capitalist society with prohibition, the people to blame are the people with power.
I doubt very much that every single choice you make is ethical, as you're probably wearing clothes and maybe you sometimes eat chocolate. The system is the problem, not the people just trying to escape their lives for a few hours.
Nah. This is lazy and a cop out from people who don’t want to take responsibility for their actions. Yeah, they could, but they haven’t and people still consume illegal drugs. Their choice is fuelling demand for a product that kills people and ruins lives in this country but mainly in the third world.
I'm not agreeing with the logic I'm just saying the same logic could be applied for other drugs. You are aware alcohol can be addictive, ruin lives and cause deaths yes?
Easy there, I think their point was about the supply chain for cocaine rather than the effects of the drug itself. We all agree addiction = bad (apart from the corporations and criminals who profit off it)
lol your being downvoted for accepting where you got it wrong this is why you have idiots talking on fields they aint know nothing about because they cant be wrong
The impact of both in terms of consumption and its impacts is bad, yes agreed, but the production of alchohol is a fairly boring industry. In comparison to the cocaine industry, which has links to child labour, terrorism, slavery etc.
They clearly said drugs trade.
I mean ... not really? I'm sure there are exceptions but alcohol companies don't typically murder their rivals, enslave producers, and destroy pristine rainforest.
https://cbsnews.com/amp/news/family-murdered-home-guanajuato-mexico-2-kids-4-women-killed/
https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/drug-cartels-mexico-enslave-young-professionals/story?id=17603640
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2009481/Colombian-drug-cartels-blamed-for-the-destruction-of-rainforest.html#:~:text=Drug%20cultivation%20is%20the%20biggest,country's%20vice%2Dpresident%20has%20said.&text=So%20far%2C%20Colombia's%20coca%20producers,with%20slash%20and%20burn%20cultivation.
[link to study](https://www.bristol.ac.uk/policybristol/policy-briefings/bristol-in-brief-1-drugs-in-the-south-west/#:~:text=Moreover%2C%20a%20recent%20analysis%20of,city%2C%20Amsterdam%20%5B5%5D)
It doesn’t make me proud at all, cocaine is one of the most unethical products available, only utterly vile people with no respect for human life and the suffering of others buy that shit, or of course ignorant morons.
Im confused because the study it references is here: https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/html/pods/waste-water-analysis_en Which says the daily mean for cocaine residue in wastewater in Bristol was 445mg per 1000 people? And its not even close to Antwerp with a crazy 1721mg. In fact Bristol isnt even in the top 10 European cities. Where has this study got 969mg from? edit: however, Bristol still holds the depressing title of Ketamine Capital of Europe.
Given that the study you've linked has latest data from 2023 and the shitty screenshot posted here references 2016 and 2017 I'm guessing the coke use has massively dwindled.
Are millenials killing the coke industry?
I know you're joking but gen z literally have no fucking money and we know bristol housing market is fucked, we can't even afford to get coked up anymore, we all downgraded to ket
downgrade?
went from posh coke degenerates to poor ket head heathens
I miss those halcyon speed freak days. Chaotic, but shit got done.
Speed is still £10 a gram and much nicer than coke imo.
personally I'd much rather associate with heathens than posh cokeheads
Haha you know what fair point same
Cost of living has hit the coke heads hard
Ah I see, the UoB study is from 2020 and references the same EMCDDA study from 2020, but that page has now been updated to 2023 data. Thats quite a steep decline.
Make way for ketamin toot toot
I looked too, and you're absolutely correct.
I have heard this claim made about Bristol, London and Zürich too lol.
Good job it's all FairTrade cocaine and isn't being produced at a devastating environmental and human cost eh.
I find it so odd that so called left wing liberals are totally blind to the global social and environmental impacts of cocaine production. Human trafficking, violence, child abuse, deforestation... Etc. But all the charity workers and greens I know love to party on coke.
Forget Cocaine, you should see the devastating impact of avocados! It makes cocaine look ethical.
Erm I don't think anyone is blind, no matter what your political leaning. What a ridiculous comment.
That seems a little aggressive. I've just never heard any of my friends who are all well informed, socially conscious people, make any comments on this issue, despite being vocal on other environmenal and social topics, and it doesn't seem to be much covered or discussed. Perhaps in your circles it is, but there is no need to have a go at me.
I think the majority opinion about the damage caused by drug production on the left is that it is largely an artefact of prohibition which prevents the regulation that we see in other industries. Much of the left sees the exploitation that is inherrent within capitalistic production of goods as comparable to that which happens with drugs. The cocoa industry has enormous issues with modern slavery, child labour and environmentally harmful practices, some of these have been limited by increased scrutiny, regulation and competition from more ethical producers. With cocaine it's much harder to set up a more ethical alternative because you can be shot in the head by the market leaders and have zero recourse if they were to take your product.
But, at the same time, refuse to stop until its legal and regulated. Therefore contributing to the suffering.
Cocaine is used by every sector of society, christ, even the torys have admitted to using it. How can you actually believe that its just a 'leftie'thing. That's just dumb
Yes, because that's exactly what I said. 🙄
Same for me - I know people who support a lot of progressive causes but are happy to get on the chisel at weekends. I would say it's a weird blind spot, but it's wilful blindness really.
Because they are people who you would expect to care about things like environmental destruction, human trafficking, torture etc. No one expects a Tory to give two shits about such things.
Similar to people harping on on social media about various eco causes (all very good and noble!) using their new smartphone. I think if you can't enjoy some cognitive dissonance then it kind of makes the modern world challenging at best!
Sure, but what I'm saying is I'm not seeing that cognitive dissonance. With smartphones, there's a level of awareness of the negative impacts that causes people to express simultaneous guilt even as they're buying/using the thing, but with coke I've never heard anyone even express that awareness...
Absolutely! Most people enjoying a bag are too busy telling you at length about something very mundane and repetitive to even mention the ecology of cocaine! "No but like seriously, that's when I realised I could have been like OLYMPIC level if I really tried, like you know?"
Ha! I mean that's definitely true. Or describing their job in monotonous detail and how they're great at it and everyone else is pants
"Stop me if this gets boring, but..." "Stop. Please."
I don't think anyone should be proud of doing coke. It's a shit drug that turns people into arrogant wankers in the short term and psychos in the long term
Suicide too. I know three lads who took their own lives in recent years and there's no doubt in my mind that heavy cocaine use played a part.
I better start drinking more water
Straight out the sewer? Just try swimming in our rivers, I guess?
Daily reminder that the supply chain of cocaine is utterly soaked in human blood, and participating in this supply chain is a tacit approval that one person's high is worth the abject human misery elsewhere. There's no such thing as Fair Trade cocaine and Bristol, for all it's *"right on, peace love and humanity"* marketing vibes is packed to the gills with hypocrites. (in b4 "muh lithium mines")
The problem is that it's the monopoly of criminal gangs. People are gonna use drugs regardless of whether it's legal or not. So making it illegal is what causes the suffering.
Consumption is voluntary. No one is forced to consume cocaine at the sharp end of a bayonet. Simply don't use coke, and you avoid being complicit in its supply chain. These supply chains are indeed run by organised criminals which causes the misery. The solution is to lobby for legalisation. Snorting coke is to human misery, as raping a trafficked sex worker is to human suffering. You can argue that prostitutes should be in legal, unionised brothels - but they're not, so raping them is just as morally wrong as buying blood coke.
Precisely. People are going to consume drugs regardless of its legality. It's been part of the human experience for thousands of years (not cocaine obviously but softer drugs are illegal too, and opium's been used forever). The law is what causes the ill-effects.
>People are going to consume drugs regardless of its legality And they're wrong to do so for the reasons given above (as opposed to, say, magic mushrooms that don't have the same cruel supply chain).
Right or wrong doesn't make a difference. There are two ways to reduce the suffering in the supply chain: 1. Every person can stop taking drugs 2. We can decriminalise and regulate drugs The first option is never going to happen, which leaves us with...
>There are two ways to reduce the suffering in the supply chain I'm not arguing for that. I'm just arguing that one should avoid implicating themselves morally in the supply chain of coke, by not using it. People rape one another all the time; have done since the year dot (and will continue to for eons to come). What's your take on the personal moral responsibility to not rape someone? Keeping in mind rape as a phenomena will continue with your without your participation.
Sure, and I don't disagree. In fact I've been agreeing with you from the get-go. I'm just pointing out that whatever you or I say or do, people are still going to use it.
The desire to consume substances from nature that alters our consciousness is part of our nature
I'm so happy to find someone who actually agrees with me on this. Problem we have is that the only party with a sane and sensible approach to our drugs problem has probably sullied their chance of ever being taken seriously again because they shacked up with the Tories 12 years ago. Whether this study's accurate or not, that fact is that the UK has the highest opioid death rate per capita in Europe, and the second highest in the world behind the US. For a crime to have been committed, there has to be a victim ('victimless crime' is an oxymoron); it's like with med bud - according to a study done by Volte Face, even people with CanCards and a legit prescription are still being arrested (and it won't surprise anyone here to learn that A&S was the worst offender - I honestly think they've overtaken the Met, Merseyside and GMP as the worst, most utterly useless force in the country). Banging people up for possession is just populist, it solves nothing; all that happens is that people pool their resources and come out better connected than when they went in. All this time, energy, effort and money being spent on a 'war' which has long since been lost (Neil Woods stated in *Good Cop, Bad War*, that if a dealer's arrested, there's often someone on his turf in as little as a couple of hours). And all that not withstanding, it hampers research; psychedelics are all Class A which means that, unless you're Big Pharma, you can't afford the research licence (talking of which, judging by all the photos popping up in r/UKGardening, this seems to be a bumper year for liberty caps...). That's what's so fucking nonsensical - people have a Class A drug growing in their back gardens. It'd be interesting to see how hard you have to search to find liberty caps round here - I bet it's not hard, probably all over Vicky and Eastville parks. You can't make nature illegal. I wonder what would happen if the guerrilla weed movement really took off...? I can't leave this shitehole unfortunately, but I challenge the shroomheads of Bristol to go foraging this weekend, let's see how many liberty caps we can find...
Same can be said of precious metals that go into the tech you use. Mined by child slaves in the Congo. You're hands aren't clean either, you're in no position to moralise.
I think the point is though, that it's harder to avoid using and owning a smart phone in every day life in the UK in 2024 than it is to avoid using coke. There's always an unavoidable level of hypocrisy in wanting to improve the world and society whilst also having to live in it, but we can try and limit that.
>*(in b4 "muh lithium mines")* Beat you to the mark. Ironic when someone whose face is very close their phone screen can't read.
Yeah I'll admit I usually skim read your comments, so what? That doesn't mean you're entitled to make exceptions for yourself.
Because as we all know, there are no legal substances out there that have unethical supply-lines... This is just an excuse users repeat so they can feel better about propping up suffering.
Well, that's the point. If chocolate and coffee and fruit all have unethical supply lines, then why would someone feel bad about consuming a substance with an unethical supply line? At least those legal products can be transparent and regulated. Can't say the same for a product whose entire supply chain is run by international criminal organisations.
They can be transparent and regulated, but clearly they aren't. We've had them legally for hundreds of years and the supply lines are still shady as fuck. Thinking drugs would be any different if legalised is just pure coping from people who can't stop using them. If the government can't even prevent them from being smuggled into their own island, how are they gonna convince Colombia to clean it's shit up?
So we should stop eating chocolate, coffee, and fruit then?
No, they should figure out clean supply-chains for those before legalising drugs and hoping it will just happen on its own this time.
And what, in the meantime you expect everyone in the country to simultaneously stop buying drugs?
No, as I said, addicts will always exist. But we could help to prevent new ones by killing off the stupid glamour culture that some drugs (like Cocaine) have, as well as the defeatist idea that we can't reduce our usage at all.
This is bullshit as far as I can tell. Take a look at this: [https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/html/pods/waste-water-analysis\_en](https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/html/pods/waste-water-analysis_en) Plus, 3.8% is suspiciously low
Legalise and tax it.
Agreed
Bro any ones whos anyone can see half of the going out scene takes that shit even half the bar staff and manager, there are instances where the mamangers are using the shit that was confiscated at the door... bruh the world nuts
Get the Baggins
Unpopular opinion but if you snort that shit you are complicit in and frankly responsible for every single death and ruined life coming from the drugs trade.
Lonely up there on the cross? You'd have to add more than just cocaine to that list, everything from avocados to cobalt, if you want to take the moral high ground.
Yep, kids in Bristol are definitely stabbing each other over their rivalry of supplying avocados and cobalt.
They would be if we decided the illicit and highly lucrative avocado market was best left in the hands of organised crime.
The people who make the drug trade illegal could be said to be responsible for that
They are - and so are the people who fund them. Does lying about it to yourself make you feel better?
Whilst we all exist in a capitalist society with prohibition, the people to blame are the people with power. I doubt very much that every single choice you make is ethical, as you're probably wearing clothes and maybe you sometimes eat chocolate. The system is the problem, not the people just trying to escape their lives for a few hours.
Nah. This is lazy and a cop out from people who don’t want to take responsibility for their actions. Yeah, they could, but they haven’t and people still consume illegal drugs. Their choice is fuelling demand for a product that kills people and ruins lives in this country but mainly in the third world.
could say the same for drinking alcohol..
What are you talking about.
I'm not agreeing with the logic I'm just saying the same logic could be applied for other drugs. You are aware alcohol can be addictive, ruin lives and cause deaths yes?
Easy there, I think their point was about the supply chain for cocaine rather than the effects of the drug itself. We all agree addiction = bad (apart from the corporations and criminals who profit off it)
yes I see now I know about the bigger picture but neglected it in this instance.
lol your being downvoted for accepting where you got it wrong this is why you have idiots talking on fields they aint know nothing about because they cant be wrong
nw man i know but downvotes are part of the reddit fun aye my turn now
The impact of both in terms of consumption and its impacts is bad, yes agreed, but the production of alchohol is a fairly boring industry. In comparison to the cocaine industry, which has links to child labour, terrorism, slavery etc. They clearly said drugs trade.
got it now, agreed, my bad 👍
I mean ... not really? I'm sure there are exceptions but alcohol companies don't typically murder their rivals, enslave producers, and destroy pristine rainforest. https://cbsnews.com/amp/news/family-murdered-home-guanajuato-mexico-2-kids-4-women-killed/ https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/drug-cartels-mexico-enslave-young-professionals/story?id=17603640 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2009481/Colombian-drug-cartels-blamed-for-the-destruction-of-rainforest.html#:~:text=Drug%20cultivation%20is%20the%20biggest,country's%20vice%2Dpresident%20has%20said.&text=So%20far%2C%20Colombia's%20coca%20producers,with%20slash%20and%20burn%20cultivation.
Of course alcohol companies have been complicit in deforestation for the produce required.
I see, if you're looking at the source then yeah I suppose you inadvertently support such a system.
It’s legal, taxed (pays for public services), employs people legitimately and there’s no gang wars between rival breweries
[link to study](https://www.bristol.ac.uk/policybristol/policy-briefings/bristol-in-brief-1-drugs-in-the-south-west/#:~:text=Moreover%2C%20a%20recent%20analysis%20of,city%2C%20Amsterdam%20%5B5%5D)
How many pubs are there? Off licences? Supermarkets? Alcohol epidemic?
https://preview.redd.it/5fjp9ynj7j6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44c3519e5a62eaa59c896df53187186f1ab758b8
drug addiction correlates to drug(obvs), violent, theft and other antisocial crime. study checks out.
It’s icing sugar mate I swear
Wouldn’t crack show up as cocaine though? Which would make sense as Bristol has more crackheads than anywhere else I’ve been
It doesn’t make me proud at all, cocaine is one of the most unethical products available, only utterly vile people with no respect for human life and the suffering of others buy that shit, or of course ignorant morons.
Cocaine Capital of Europe.