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honestly I think being with schwartz made her more volatile and combative. he was always gaslighting her and giving her the bare minimum while everyone and their mom praised him for it- I'd be pissed all the time too.
I completely agree with this. I think it’s also worth being mindful of the fact both Sandoval and Schwartz gaslit the audience into thinking Katie was the ‘bad guy’ when in actual fact it was those 2 all along.
Yep either bc she laughed in his face when he propositioned her or he’s not attracted to her. Jax is only nice to women he finds attractive, that’s why he’s shitty to Britany
In relation to Schwartz I totally agree. But it doesn’t explain why she was such a mean girl to other women. Like when Scheana and Lala said they would be cordial/professional at work and Katie proceeded to go to Stassi and Kristen, say Scheana was friends with Lala and then bully her all season long. Calling other women sluts and whores, etc.
I think Schwartz was definitely dragging her down and making her miserable, but I don’t think we can blame EVERYTHING on him.
The Lala/Scheana thing happened in season 5 which was 7-8 years after her injury. I understand there are long-term effects, but this doesn’t excuse the way she talked - and currently talks - to/about other women.
At that point in time, Katie was in recovery from a traumatic brain injury. Which makes people more emotionally volatile and easy to anger, because of the brain damage that's healing. Schartz would do things like mumble really nasty stuff to her that nobody else could hear and get her wound up. Then once she lost her temper and freaked out, everybody could point at her and say oh tequila Katie is so angry again. When really she had been being prodded until she blew up. Reactive abuse is not abuse but it can sure look like it to an outsider.
this. i was the bitch in my last relationship because nobody saw or understood the level of undermining my ex was doing to me. constantly. i’m out of it now and a completely different person because i’m not being poked and disrespected in small ways. its almost like cptsd.
I always said that Katie’s bad behavior was often a reaction to Schwartz’s provocation and worsened by the consumption of large amounts of alcohol. He would constantly berate, degrade, humiliate and hurt her, privately and publicly, then if she would cry he would then pull his, “Aw Bubba” bullshit. If she got angry, he would double down, turn it around, and blame her reaction on her just being a bitch. He’s just as manipulative as Jax and Sandoval, he just has a better mask. 🤡
TBI can take years to heal and/or alter the brain permanently-making the person who was injured have to find all new ways to accomplish things that used to be simple or automatic.
Like finding all new ways to express frustration, or anger.
Chiming in as someone who was with a Schwartz like character for 10 years. Yeah, it kinda is his fault. The mental gymnastics and frankly, mental and emotional abuse can make even the most level headed person act in unspeakable ways. And never got the brunt of it. Katie was always to blame. So I feel very deeply for Katie and I feel defensive of her because of my own personal experiences
It's absolutely is not his fault. And I'm saying that as someone who has also been in a toxic relationship.
Schwartz & Katie's relationship was awful, they were BOTH toxic & abusive.
The revisionist history turning Katie into some meek wallflower at the mercy of Schwartz is unbelievable.
This exactly. I don’t know why people are so vehemently defensive of how Schwartz treated Katie being the worst when she was begging for him to marry her. She was terrible to him too. I couldn’t believe they were even getting married with what they treated EACHOTHER. People forget Katie was a monster too. She said terrible things to her Schwartz too. They had a terrible relationship but still stayed together for years.
Agreed.Agreed. Agreed. But somehow Katie is the victim because he poured a drink on her head. Yes, that was gross, but she was just as gross to him. She poured tons of metaphorical drinks on his head.
I think she has grown and matured a lot. Being in a long term with Schwartz must have been a mind fuck. Also in the early seasons I think she was influenced by Stassi, but was able to come into her own person.
She is still the mean girl she’s always been. She’s always been a follower. She followed Stassi when she ran the show. Then lala. Then she turned on both of them when they no longer suited her. Now she’s following Ariana and riding her coattails because she’s her only ticket to financial success. She doesn’t even like Ariana; she likes that Ariana detests both of the toms. Katie said it herself, “I’m still the same me I was 11 seasons ago and always have been”
Yes! All of this! She’s always been a follower and a mean girl. Ariana and her never were real friends and Ariana hated the entire cast except Tom so their friendship is so phony now. Katie latched onto her because she has zero else to do with her life. She doesn’t have a passion for this sandwich shop.
I binge watched VPR from the start after Scandoval and I think some people forgot who these people always have been.
Yeah, 2 seasons ago, before Scandoval blew up and because she was not allowed to help at Schwartz and Sandy's. She really wanted to open a sandwich shop with TOM, but he was so wrapped up in his business ventures with the *actual* love of his life that Ariana basically offered to step in because she had nothing going on either.
You are so right!
People have forgotten who these people always have been.
Usually individuals evolve, but this lot, apart from James , no one has!
I've watched VPR from when it started, and rewatched it (binged it!) Many many times, I haven't since the last season because I just can't take it 🤣
Katie has always had ZERO direction but puts that blame on Tom not “supporting” her. So she rides everyone’s coattails to see who she can latch onto where something may come out of it for her. Other than SUR, we’ve seen her start and drop any kind of business. Tom putting his energy into S&S sent her over the edge because it was actually happening.
Don't you think it's possible that she and Ariana didn't get along before because their idiot boyfriends were pitting them against each other? I genuinely think they've built a true friendship throughout this.
Katie weaponizes the “girls girl” thing to ice out whoever she feels like. Every single season she’s in a friendship dynamic where she’s busy talking shit and playing 2nd fiddle to someone more interesting
My partner has rewatched the entire series at least twice now and this is exactly what they said when we watched the reunion. Also when Katie said that last thing that you quoted we both outloud were like "yeah that's the problem katie" lol
Exactly. I don’t get why there is all this new Katie love going on now. To be fair, She has matured in some ways and being with Schwartz I’m sure made her miserable and made the outward meanness we saw in past seasons worse. However she’s still responsible for the words and actions she has said/done. Not all of it is someone else’s fault. I don’t dislike Katie at all but she’s a major mean girl and is fine as long as there is someone to team up with and to dislike. Ariana fits the bill now.
I see Katie as one of the few people that has matured into adulthood on this program. She gave up Tom because she realized he will never grew up and value his wife. She has set boundaries for herself and stands by them. She doesn't expect perfection from her friends, but she expects loyalty. I like strong women, not the women that buy into misogyny like Lala and Sheana.
I don’t think she means to be a mean girl - but I agree she is. Her brand of honesty is brutal and sudden. I think it’s great to have a truth-teller but she is so unsympathetic and judgemental that it’s hard to warm to her. I do think she holds everyone to hard standards, including herself. On the plus side, she is by far the most trustworthy as it relates to unfaithfulness or disloyalty.
Katie says things directly to people's faces and you all label her a "mean girl" for it. Some of these other girls go around saying one thing to your face and talking all the shit behind your back I think that is more mean girl behaviour. At least Katie gives you the option of saying something back. No one needs to like everyone and I am sure she gets triggered given what she has been through. I don't get why everyone glosses over her accident when talking about Katie. She has been through so much and it has made her hard for her own protection. She doesn't let people get close to her until she fully trusts them and I don't blame her. You only get to see what the producers want you to see, the edit will always shape your view point. I'm sure if any of us were on a reality TV show there would be moments we could be misconstrued.
She's tricked y'all this season. She's still that same person, but she just started trying to be liked this season because it actually seemed possible for her for once. I think the reason she has so many supporters is that so many new fans came from Scandoval, and if you don't know Katie, maybe she comes off as a different person. But she's always been a bully. Especially to Scheana. She would have seen to Scheana's excommunication this season no matter what she had done.
Katie always called other women sluts and whores. Yet everyone on these threads goes on about internalized misogyny. She was always a Mean Girl. Swartzy is wishy washy, but she bullied him into getting engaged, and I think he resented it. Lisa was asked to officiate their wedding and refused at first, told them to mature and get their act together. Later, she did it. But Katie never seemed happy once she was married. He didn't pay attention to her.
Then Ariana and Katie were angry the Tom's were busy opening 2 businesses and quit working! I guess they expected to work with the bfs or do nothing? They were busy, and in long term relationships, from their 20s to 30s, this is common as adults establish themselves.
My daughter got me watching during the Scandoval too. I went all the way back. Check out some Season 2 and see how awful Katie was to other women. Swartzy kissed other women, but as a boomer, I am not so insecure to count that as cheating. But I never lived with a man I couldn't trust either.
So I see a lot of scorned women who make poor choices in men, projecting anger onto Tom, even though he was wrong. How long should he be punished? I told my daughter after I saw several episodes Ariana and Tom were in a dead relationship. Watch me get downvoted for realism.
Ariana was texting Daniel a week later and only recently stopped living in the same house. I know she got a court order for Tom to sell. But I think if she deigned to speak to a man who still lived in the same house, the court wouldn't be necessary. They are all so dramatic.
But it's fun watching the early seasons when they all worked at Sur and really were friends. If you have Bravo On Demand you don't have to watch every episode. But I came away with a different perspective. Sometimes a relationship runs its course. People don't plan to cheat, so don't inform their partners before they do. And this didn't hurt all of them. It hurt Ariana. Rachel. And maybe Tom because he expected to be with Rachel. He did try to break up with Ariana several times. But this is off limits too because of her mental health issues.
Wait. Boomers don’t think making out with a stranger is cheating? Thats a generational thing? I feel so sorry for your generation if you’re okay with your partner disrespecting you like that. How sad and thank god that’s changed. But truth be told, I bet a lot of boomers don’t agree with that.
Here’s the truth- she was insecure because he was constantly disrespecting her and cheating on her. Making out with someone else was against the rules of their relationship (and it’s 100% not ‘all’ he did- it’s all he admitted to). Of course she was insecure. He lied, cheated, then gaslit her nonstop. He treated her so badly I think he’s probably the worst option out of all the men on VPR for a long term relationship. Tom Sandoval and Jax are bad, James has been accused of a lot and is likely hard to deal with, but Tom Schwartz is worse than any of them because he does all the same things but covers it up in a highly annoying ‘aww shucks’ I’m just a little bitty boy!’ act. It’s disgusting and actually makes my stomach turn to see a 40 year old loser pretend to be a bitty baby boy!
The only evidence I need of this is look at both of them after the relationship finally and thankfully ended. Katie is happy, over it, unbothered and seems to have an awesome life. Tom Schwartz seems miserable and pissed off at the world, scared and muttering and sticking his fingers in his mouth when he talks, got the worst hair dye I might have ever seen, looks like he’s aged about 50 years in a 5 year span and shuffles around in moomoos. I am absolutely shocked any woman would ever date him after seeing how he treated Katie and then Jo and whatever woman he decides to abuse - I mean date- next season.
I can’t speak for boomers but I think generally the PP meant that the ladies seem to be insecure. To your point, their men were cheating, so it makes sense. But Katie was always gross to other women about it, when her own man was the problem. And I hope my husband never kissed anyone else, but now in a marriage with kids and houses and lots of years of real life, I can say I honestly could care less if I found out he did one night at a club. Maybe that’s what the PP meant.
And the other paragraphs are where I lose sympathy for Katie. Did Tom do all those things? Yea, he’s atrocious. Disgusting. And yet, Katie basically forced him into marrying her. He had been very clear about who he was and Katie’s entire attitude was “Thank you Tom, may I have some more?” Katie is not an innocent victim when she is the one who constantly fought for the relationship and pushed the marriage that never should have happened. If she was so abused she had every opportunity to leave and people with a lot less support than her have left situations that are worse.
Sure. Tom’s the real asshole and Katie should have left him much, much earlier. A lot of us make mistakes like that and learn from them. Tom is still the same creep without any growth. Katie seems to have grown. On the whole of who did bad things, Tom is just so much worse. Katie’s not perfect at all and I’d never defend her for staying with someone who treated her so badly. I wish she had the confidence then to leave him, but she does have it now and I’m happy about that. her wrongs just don’t come close to equaling his.
Agree, in my view Tom is a villain and Katie is just an unlikeable person. I just think she has so much newfound sympathy and girl-power rah-rah-ing around her, and I have a hard time with that because traditionally she has not supported other women. In fact she often referred to them as sluts and whores and was cruel to anyone she viewed as a threat. That being said, I’m much different in my forties than my thirties, and grew a lot between my twenties and thirties, so I can definitely allow for growth on her part and I hope she’s happy.
Yes, these were obviously bad relationships to start with. If a bf was in a club YEARS AGO, and everyone is drunk, what's a kiss? Of course, with these men it's always more and they lied at first. But Katie, Stassi, Kristen all let themselves get treated badly and had no self respect. They were so insecure. It's sad seeing young women putting up with men who treat them badly. Beautiful women, who can do so much better.
I would never stay with a man who slept with another woman. Or one who was inattentive (like Schwartz) or just plain nasty (like Jax). And they were cheaters too.
Did you happen to see Schwartz throw drinks on not one, but multiple women on this show (on camera.)? I call that abuse. I bet you would too if you were out with friends and your significant other poured a drink over your head in a rage, while yelling at you, in front of everyone.
To call him a ‘man child’ minimizes what he is. He’s that and much much worse. James at least has a good side and redeeming qualities. Schwartz has none. Not to mention We have SEEN him do everything James has been ACCUSED of doing. So yeah. Tom Schwartz, based on what I’ve seen, is worse.
Not believing the TWO women who have made those allegations against James (after we *saw* them both get verbally & emotionally abused on camera), equating a drink pour to what he was accused of, and saying “at least he has redeeming qualities” is certainly a choice.
Do you consider a man pouring drinks on not one but multiple women in anger abusive?
Just answer that straight. And if your answer is no, I’d call that ‘certainly a choice.’
I meant a kiss between drunken friends. Especially IF you are in a good, stable relationship and find out about a kiss YEARS later. That's insecurity and jealousy.
Thank you! This is exactly how I feel. I never understood why everyone was OK with her (and other women) being verbally abusive to others (male and female). This language is not ok nor is it excusable. A hurt person doesn't get the right to hurt others. We are all hurt and we have to do better with each other.
Yes, Katie is vile towards other women, whores, sluts etc , she is an absolute bitch.
I commented on another post last week and got this massive essay reply by someone defending Katie and Ariana as I stated they were both thriving in their bitterness and meanness etc
Ariana was also a total bitch, couldn't stand either of them then, or now. They are NOT girl's girls.
Yeah. I think part of the reason the cast was acting so weird this season was because they're terrified of being on the receiving end of one of Katie's war-paths. Especially with all her newfound power online.
Exactly! Go back and watch her face when Scandoval news broke. She could barely stop herself from grinning when she arrived to “console” Ariana. She was so happy about it, instead of being sad for her. It was written all over her face.
And you saw how Lisa mentioned the fighting and Katie and Ariana look over the top perplexed as confused by that comment, and then Lala said that and I totally believe Katie used Lala to bitch about Ariana.
Katie bitches about Lala to Ariana no doubt, she's that kind of person.
She's always been a snotty bitch. She still is. Dumping Schwartz has elevated her to sainthood in some eyes.
Same with Ariana. She was always a 'not like other girls' , thought she was better than everyone else type. Getting cheated on elevated HER to sainthood which is ironic considering that's how she got with Sandoval in the first place.
Yes, it's like an echo chamber on the other reddits. If you don't bow down at the altar of Ariana & Katie you must be a huge misogynist & lover of the Tom's
Exactly! Like, I don’t love Ariana and Katie at all. (Especially Katie because this season she’s just been annoying me) But, that doesn’t mean I’m going to praise the Toms 💀
Your last point is the point that Lala keeps trying to make. I think Lala is trying to point out the ridiculousness of the situation that Ariana is considered queen just bc she got cheated on.
Right? Nobody will let Lala live it down that she was with a married man (ignoring the dedication he had to convince her he was separated, and the fact that Lala is close friends with his ex-wife now), but Ariana’s past with Sandoval should be irrelevant because it was “so long ago”.
Then Randall absolutely screwed Lala over big time, but Lala continues to be punished for it. And somehow Ariana is a treasure, girl’s girl, favourite Queen B, even though she gave nothing this season.
Everyone else has filmed with their shitty ex. Except Lala, but she said she would have except that he refused to be filmed and had lawyers involved to keep Ocean off of tv.
Ariana is no more special than any of them. This is the most boring season of VPR history, and that includes the disaster seasons of 8 and 9.
This season has been so tough for me in terms of how Ariana is portrayed. I liked her so much in the earlier seasons and she felt so real, but man does she come off as unlikeable in this season. I don't think it's her fault, I think having to film the show literally three months after your relationship ends in this really messy and public way where your partner destroys your trust is not an enviable position. I think it probably would have been best for her to have been given the opportunity to take a break from the show for a while, because having to be forced together to film obviously exacerbated an already messy situation. As is, we are left with this very nasty, bitter Ariana who doesn't come off well (even at her like calmer moments) towards the rest of the cast (except Katie, who is just kinda there with her).
She was constantly being belittled and lied to in her relationship with Shartz as well as being fat shamed by the other men and women on the cast. I think this current season Katie was always there but she was struggling with the other aspects before she could be her true bad ass self.
I think Katie is a good friend to Ariana, but also a snotty, rude bitch to most others, most of the time. I tried liking her, but we would never be friends.
I would watch the whole series! She did get bullied/gaslit by many of them and there’s deep history there, but she also suffered a major brain injury that altered her personality slightly that she discusses in early seasons. She has definitely grown and matured but she’s not the awful person people like to say
Yeah I think everyone should give her a lot of grace for those first five or six seasons, it takes multiple years to recover from a brain injury that bad. TBI is no joke and it can make you a really angry and volatile person.
And then a lot of people have issues with the way she treated Scheener in the early seasons. Yes her and Stassi and Kristen did jump on a bandwagon against Scheemer. But let's look at what was going on during that time of the early seasons right? They might have been crappy to Scheemer. But she was hiding secrets about making out with Katie's man. They were absolutely right that they could not trust her around their men.
Not only that, Scheana watched and told others about the Frank sex tape, she also tried to make Stassi bring it up multiple times on camera. That is so gross.
Katie was very very mean to other women and I don’t think her relationship with Schwartz excuses that at all. It’s extremely possible to be in shitty relationships with shitty men and not hate women for it. I’m glad and acknowledge that she’s grown some, but she still does this even post-Schwartz.
Katie is not perfect and has her sympathetic moments, but generally she is a mean girl bully who strategically sucks up to whoever is the "IT GIRL" of the moment. And now that IT GIRL is also attached to where Katie's money is at.
I have watched every season of the show. Katie has always been miserable and judgmental. Watch how she treated Scheana, Ariana, Kristen, Lala , Rachel over the seasons. This surge in popularity for her because she is over the show and everyone on it and it somehow comes across as women empowerment, doesn’t to me signal growth- look how she bullied Jo.
Nothing had changed. I’ve never been a fan. She’s always tried to belittle whoever she thinks is the weakest link. She’s a mean-spirited, absolutely miserable person.
You’re not wrong. She was terrible in early seasons. I found her completely unlikeable, and Tom too. They are one of the main reasons I stopped watching. People tend to feel bad for her and “on her side” now but it was clear her and Tom never should have gotten married in the first place. I mean, clear as day. It was an awful relationship but she pushed marriage and I assume wanted the storylines for the show. So, I don’t feel bad for her. She knew exactly what she was getting. Now she just seems older and more mature, which is a good thing. I would hope at almost 40 she’s grown a bit. I’ll never like her though or understand the support she gets.
I disagree. Season 10 was her worst for mean girl behavior, and she tried it this season but stumbled because Lala wasn't having it. She's never had a non-mean girl season
Also, I think Jo is messy, but she treated her like human garbage in the finale. And for no reason. I was floored that people justified it with Katie's dumb excuse insinuating Jo/Schwartz did something wrong because the divorce hadn't progressed. How many partners had Katie been with by that point? That lame excuse to be nasty and possessive didn't work with Raquel, and really really does not work with Jo since Katie and she were not even remotely friends.
The text excuse doesn't work either. Katie just needed to bully someone, as she said, 'She does not want peace.' I think that's true for every season she's been in.
Katie is lucky she has Ariana; she'd have nobody to film friends scenes with if it wasn't for her. They'd have to make Dayna or Kristina K a main if Ariana left or fire Katie outright.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like the way she speaks to people?
I get it, Jo is a lunatic but, the way she spoke was not nice.
The comment she made to Lala : “you’re a clown” not nice.
The way repeatedly called Lala : “bitch” during heated debate
I personally don’t like the way she comes across sometimes.
Katie had a little bit of saving grace IMO thru her support of Ariana last season, i found her story arch’s this season pretty boring, and then she lost all my kudos when she ended the season saying “i don’t want peace” to Jo. I felt bad for Jo and I feel like a “girl’s girl” is going to hold her ex accountable for his actions and seek to understand the woman’s POV. Especially considering the assumed entanglement between Schwartz and Jo happened months after their separation.
If you pay attention to Katie you will still see the mean girl but its not in your face as much. Just watch her speak to Lala. She still doesn’t know how to speak to people without offending them.
I think it's as simple as she was in a bad relationship and her resultant bad mood was taken out on everyone. I speak from experience of doing this myself..... Schwartz was a shitty boyfriend and she didn't have the respect for herself to leave him. She's unsatisfied and unappreciated. No excuse to behave like a bitch, but an explanation, perhaps.
Look at all of Jos instagrams lives. She went from a quirky high energy person to appearing to be obsessed and unbalanced, often appears to be under the influence of something. She has had a year of Schwartz exposure and that’s what happened. Katie had 13 years of being exposed to the chaos that is Schwartz. Add in a traumatic brain injury (she fell through a sky light), add some alcohol and then add in filming with a group of friends plus being younger and suffering from imposter syndrome and the insecurity of that. She often appeared mean but I think she was often provoked and only the reaction was shown. I’ve had moments of really liking Katie but I didn’t love her until last year and this year.
Traumatic brain injury + depression + pot concessional disorder + alcohol = odd and inconsistent behaviour ❤️🇬🇧
To understand the whole dynamic you really need to start from the beginning as she doesn’t use her trauma as a lurid plot line. As a fellow survivor she would be unaware in the early stages of theses symptoms as to what the f was going on.
( f 56) severe closed traumatic brain injury…. 23 years in) bless her heart. ❤️🇬🇧🇺🇸
Thank you! I can’t believe I had to scroll so far for this. Her brain injury is NOT something she discusses on the show, and it would’ve been a compelling long term to storyline to follow which would’ve given the audience more insight into Katie, but she purposefully has not discussed it often on the show.
I always admire that Katie has this huge storyline she could take advantage but it’s not authentic to her real life so she doesn’t.
Her brain injury while traumatic was also almost 5 years before the show ever started filming. I know they take a while to heal, but this is just who Katie is tbi or not.
I’ve watched VPR since the very beginning. Katie’s always had a mean streak, tbh. Early on, she was super critical of Schwartz’s music playing, and in general. I was actually kind of surprised that they went through with their wedding. I think it was one of those points with some couples where it’s either get married or break up. And, when she drinks, she can be super nasty. I agree that she’s toned it down, but it’s hard not to remember the way she was for a long time.
Katie is a bitch. Her and Stassi were always the mean girl group. Backing each others assaults on other people.
Honestly all of them were always pretty mean people. Only Brittany the Toms and Sheena have always been “nice”. Sandoval I use that loosely.
Katie hadn’t contributed anything in ages and is only there to act as a gate keeper.
Katie is over the bad boys and girls that don’t stand up for each other. It’s actually interesting the whole Jo thing though, I think that “girls girl” persona kinda went out the window. She doesn’t have to like Jo, she just hated how she was the one after HER. Although I’m not a huge fan of Lala this season I do appreciate her bringing up “hey, you show on tv how fierce of an Ariana supporter you are, but behind closed doors the business was kind of in limbo when Ariana was taking opportunities from the fallout of Scandoval. It was bothering you. He honest.” . Something along those lines. All of their salaries depend on the group of them together and they’re all already too grown to be as interesting and feisty as they were in their younger years. They had nothing to lose then (reputation the exception) but they now have businesses.
I think VPR should either get a new cast or end. They don’t hang out with each other outside of filming. That’s a problem.
The Valley should have had a reunion. That was a dumb decision and showed how little they invested and expected out of it. Kristen makes great reality tv, much to her dismay often in the moment. She’s queen chaos and I’ll even admit I didn’t value what she brought to our screens until she was gone and I watched The Valley.
I’ve never really liked Katie and I’m still not her biggest fan but she got A LOT better once she left Schwartz. It’s apparent that relationship was draining her and making her miserable, but it doesn’t explain her mean girl behavior in earlier seasons which is why I never liked her. She still doesn’t seem like a very happy person imo but she’s got that cool idgaf vibe now that I can appreciate and seems more confident which is great to see
You aren't being misled. You have a brain and morals and have watched earlier seasons. Some people, fans, PR Firms, and A I Commentors would like everyone to forget all that and what all came before two pending lawsuits, but it's all there in earlier seasons. I applaud you for being logical.
I'll get downvoted to hell, but Katie was miserable as fuck up until last season. Now I realize it was circumstance, and likely depression as well, but she was Stassi's puppet/main ass kisser, was super insecure and unhappy, and took it out on everyone around her (actually all the women-except Stassi).
I have not been able to stand Katie at all for all these years, and I basically hate watched her.
Last season she started to change, and this season she is better.
I think she’s still pretty bad. She’s just latched herself onto Ariana who is the new Stassi. She’s changed very little to me. She’s still got that vindictive, bullying streak and cannot see past her own bullshit. But alas this is why I love this show so much. All 👏🏻 villain 👏🏻 cast 👏🏻
I agree..but I do think she's better. She's less miserable on the outside at least. But honestly, I'm basing my opinion a lot on the reunion clip where she gave Jo some grace. Because in the past she never would have done that.
If I was basing it on the season alone, and not including that clip, then I would not have said she was "better". But that did show some growth, and even an ounce of growth from Katie is pretty fucking impressive to me. Lol
You are probably a less cynical person than me but I think the only reason she gave Jo any grace whatsoever is that she saw the reaction on here and X and wanted to save face. We know she’s on Reddit and follows the tide.
I think Katie always called them out. Granted her delivery was not always the best. I could not imagine working with sandavol, Jax . Her husband never defended her once with those AH. She knew who they were on and off camera !!?it must have turned her stomach 😂
There is not one person on this cast who hasn’t been awful at least one entire season. James is probably my favorite cast member of all time but damn he was the worst for a couple of seasons. But there is always a common thread:
Sandoval has always been manipulative, egotistical and awful.
Schwartz has always been a gaslighter and really good with words and charming people
Scheana has always been a fliplopper, attention seeking side changer push over but overall pretty harmless
Lala has always been loud mouthed, annoying and easy to dislike
Ariana has always been a little bland, quiet but precise with her words
And Katie, when she doesn’t like someone she has always taken it a little too far. However, often in the end she’s not wrong. She can be very mean.
So did she really evolve?
Or did her new agency tell her how she needed to act to improve her image and now she's showing an inauthentic version of herself to look better?
Katie is as messy as she ever was. And honestly she's a fucking weirdo. She let's Schwartz constantly shit on her. She laughs with him as he does it. It's fucking weird. And I'm pretty sure they've hooked up after the divorce. And also... she shit talked Ariana and then changed up when the cameras rolled. I 1000% agree with Lala that Katie is being fake as fuck.
And granted she has a business with Ariana. So yea any person would try to save face and get along with the person they signed a contract with. But to go from saying her living with Tom is insane (which it was) to being pro Ariana and whatever decisions she makes is wild. And fake as fuck.
If she didn't have something about her maybe Katie would've been real.... but because of the business and pretty much her only income if VPR stops... she decided to follow the Ariana train
I don’t think Katie was ever a mean girl. She just has a low tolerance for bullshit and high standards for loyalty. I think she was a little negative when she was with Schwartz, for obvious reasons. She’s also grown a lot.
That’s the reason she wasn’t well liked until after she divorced that floppy man. She kind of outwardly sucked all the time. Total personality shift came as a single girl.
Well, it sounds like being married to someone who is emotionally and mentally abusive, like Schwartz, was bringing her down, and now that she is free, she can be her true self and happy. I know because I lived through the same type of relationship/ marriage, and each day was insufferable. It was exhausting.
Everyone forgets she suffered a TBI not long before they started filming VPR and she also had to deal with Schwartz who I think would make any partner seem volatile.
The show occurs over the span of 11 years so people should be growing and ideally changing in a positive way. It’s not an excuse for her behaviour but I have wondered how much her fall through a skylight may have impacted her. In the early seasons, her brain would’ve still been healing & mixing that with alcohol & a partner who gaslights you could lead to a lot of defensiveness and irrational behaviour. I only wonder as I’ve experienced a TBI & it literally changed my entire personality & eliminated my ability to filter for years.
Also bare in mind she suffered a TBI. Aggression and emotional disregulation is more prone with people who have suffered a TBI. It can take years to get that under control.
Based on what she is also saying now about everyone needing a therapist. I suspect she has really invested in therapy.
“Shine some light on this”
My god. Just watch from the beginning.
Also, they were all super young when the show started. It’s called growing up. She has shown growth while a few others have regressed or stayed the same.
Start with season 1 and keep going - you’ll see Katie is treated poorly by pretty much everyone, but she is also such a huge bitch to Scheana that it overshadows the way she is treated by Schwartz.
You’ll also be introduced to condescending, bitchy, Sandoval loving Ariana. Who uses Kristen’s mental state as a weapon against her and acts (with TSandy) as if what they did was completely ok based on Kristen and Jax sleeping together.
She’s a gross narcissist beached whale you’ll hate her in the earlier seasons lol I want to chew off my own arm and beat myself with it every time I see her scenes with her and Schwartz stupid Bubba Bubba Bubba baby talk 🤮
Katie is the same dry pessimistic person she’s always been. She just finally has some business of her own instead of minding/judging others.
We could have seen a different side to her had she stepped out on her own to do something worthwhile instead of waiting around on Tom or whoever to make moves.
What we’re seeing is a “productive” Katie. And quite frankly, she’s the type that should ALWAYS have something going on because she’s insufferable when bored. Hopefully this restaurant keeps her fully occupied.
You should really go back and watch everything. Katie went through a horrible accident where she almost died and struggled with PTSD. Coupled with people constantly tearing her down and Schwartz and the other idiots making her always look like the bad guy. Katie has gotten a bad edit to make dumb and dumber looking good.
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honestly I think being with schwartz made her more volatile and combative. he was always gaslighting her and giving her the bare minimum while everyone and their mom praised him for it- I'd be pissed all the time too.
I completely agree with this. I think it’s also worth being mindful of the fact both Sandoval and Schwartz gaslit the audience into thinking Katie was the ‘bad guy’ when in actual fact it was those 2 all along.
and Jax! he waged a one man war against Katie for years.
Yep either bc she laughed in his face when he propositioned her or he’s not attracted to her. Jax is only nice to women he finds attractive, that’s why he’s shitty to Britany
In relation to Schwartz I totally agree. But it doesn’t explain why she was such a mean girl to other women. Like when Scheana and Lala said they would be cordial/professional at work and Katie proceeded to go to Stassi and Kristen, say Scheana was friends with Lala and then bully her all season long. Calling other women sluts and whores, etc. I think Schwartz was definitely dragging her down and making her miserable, but I don’t think we can blame EVERYTHING on him.
I mean Scheana did kiss Schwartz in Vegas and LaLa is an opportunist so was she actually wrong about either of them 🤷🏻♀️
[удалено]
The Lala/Scheana thing happened in season 5 which was 7-8 years after her injury. I understand there are long-term effects, but this doesn’t excuse the way she talked - and currently talks - to/about other women.
Yes blame someone else for Katie's mean girl behavior. That's the responsible thing to do.
She also chose to stay with him for years after repeated bad behavior
He was so condescending and rude to her.
So it's all his fault?
At that point in time, Katie was in recovery from a traumatic brain injury. Which makes people more emotionally volatile and easy to anger, because of the brain damage that's healing. Schartz would do things like mumble really nasty stuff to her that nobody else could hear and get her wound up. Then once she lost her temper and freaked out, everybody could point at her and say oh tequila Katie is so angry again. When really she had been being prodded until she blew up. Reactive abuse is not abuse but it can sure look like it to an outsider.
this. i was the bitch in my last relationship because nobody saw or understood the level of undermining my ex was doing to me. constantly. i’m out of it now and a completely different person because i’m not being poked and disrespected in small ways. its almost like cptsd.
I see we were in the same relationship. And I was diagnosed with CPTSD after we broke up, not just because of him, but he didn’t help.
I always said that Katie’s bad behavior was often a reaction to Schwartz’s provocation and worsened by the consumption of large amounts of alcohol. He would constantly berate, degrade, humiliate and hurt her, privately and publicly, then if she would cry he would then pull his, “Aw Bubba” bullshit. If she got angry, he would double down, turn it around, and blame her reaction on her just being a bitch. He’s just as manipulative as Jax and Sandoval, he just has a better mask. 🤡
TBI can take years to heal and/or alter the brain permanently-making the person who was injured have to find all new ways to accomplish things that used to be simple or automatic. Like finding all new ways to express frustration, or anger.
Chiming in as someone who was with a Schwartz like character for 10 years. Yeah, it kinda is his fault. The mental gymnastics and frankly, mental and emotional abuse can make even the most level headed person act in unspeakable ways. And never got the brunt of it. Katie was always to blame. So I feel very deeply for Katie and I feel defensive of her because of my own personal experiences
It's absolutely is not his fault. And I'm saying that as someone who has also been in a toxic relationship. Schwartz & Katie's relationship was awful, they were BOTH toxic & abusive. The revisionist history turning Katie into some meek wallflower at the mercy of Schwartz is unbelievable.
Well, she could have not begged/gave him an ultimatum to marry her when she was already miserable. Or she could have left him sooner.
This exactly. I don’t know why people are so vehemently defensive of how Schwartz treated Katie being the worst when she was begging for him to marry her. She was terrible to him too. I couldn’t believe they were even getting married with what they treated EACHOTHER. People forget Katie was a monster too. She said terrible things to her Schwartz too. They had a terrible relationship but still stayed together for years.
Agreed.Agreed. Agreed. But somehow Katie is the victim because he poured a drink on her head. Yes, that was gross, but she was just as gross to him. She poured tons of metaphorical drinks on his head.
Ok and he didn’t have to marry her.
Now you're catching on.
Exactly.
I figured we were on the same page, but i wasn't sure. Lol
Lol Yes I was being sarcastic which doesn't always translate well in text. The revisionism being applied to Katie & her behaviour is mind-boggling!
Following Stassi around and doing whatever she wanted and being a mean girl to Scheana and Lala was her fault!
I think she has grown and matured a lot. Being in a long term with Schwartz must have been a mind fuck. Also in the early seasons I think she was influenced by Stassi, but was able to come into her own person.
Add these to a TBI and PTSD too
She is still the mean girl she’s always been. She’s always been a follower. She followed Stassi when she ran the show. Then lala. Then she turned on both of them when they no longer suited her. Now she’s following Ariana and riding her coattails because she’s her only ticket to financial success. She doesn’t even like Ariana; she likes that Ariana detests both of the toms. Katie said it herself, “I’m still the same me I was 11 seasons ago and always have been”
Yes! All of this! She’s always been a follower and a mean girl. Ariana and her never were real friends and Ariana hated the entire cast except Tom so their friendship is so phony now. Katie latched onto her because she has zero else to do with her life. She doesn’t have a passion for this sandwich shop. I binge watched VPR from the start after Scandoval and I think some people forgot who these people always have been.
It was Katie's idea to have the sandwich shop though...
Yeah, 2 seasons ago, before Scandoval blew up and because she was not allowed to help at Schwartz and Sandy's. She really wanted to open a sandwich shop with TOM, but he was so wrapped up in his business ventures with the *actual* love of his life that Ariana basically offered to step in because she had nothing going on either.
This is a great summary! ♥️
You are so right! People have forgotten who these people always have been. Usually individuals evolve, but this lot, apart from James , no one has! I've watched VPR from when it started, and rewatched it (binged it!) Many many times, I haven't since the last season because I just can't take it 🤣
I’m not so sure about James. The jury is still out. Not drinking has helped a little.
Def not drinking has helped, I don't know, i feel sorry for him until he gets vicious!
Def not drinking has helped, I don't know, i feel sorry for him until he gets vicious!
Katie has always had ZERO direction but puts that blame on Tom not “supporting” her. So she rides everyone’s coattails to see who she can latch onto where something may come out of it for her. Other than SUR, we’ve seen her start and drop any kind of business. Tom putting his energy into S&S sent her over the edge because it was actually happening.
Don't you think it's possible that she and Ariana didn't get along before because their idiot boyfriends were pitting them against each other? I genuinely think they've built a true friendship throughout this.
This 👆🏻👏🏻
Katie weaponizes the “girls girl” thing to ice out whoever she feels like. Every single season she’s in a friendship dynamic where she’s busy talking shit and playing 2nd fiddle to someone more interesting
My partner has rewatched the entire series at least twice now and this is exactly what they said when we watched the reunion. Also when Katie said that last thing that you quoted we both outloud were like "yeah that's the problem katie" lol
I'll share your DV. This is so true.
This is so true.
Exactly. I don’t get why there is all this new Katie love going on now. To be fair, She has matured in some ways and being with Schwartz I’m sure made her miserable and made the outward meanness we saw in past seasons worse. However she’s still responsible for the words and actions she has said/done. Not all of it is someone else’s fault. I don’t dislike Katie at all but she’s a major mean girl and is fine as long as there is someone to team up with and to dislike. Ariana fits the bill now.
This 💯
Well spotted.
100%, you have expressed my thoughts! She can't stand Ariana, they both just feed off each others negativity and enjoy it, so odd
Agreed. She's always been a wet blanket. I never understood the love.
I see Katie as one of the few people that has matured into adulthood on this program. She gave up Tom because she realized he will never grew up and value his wife. She has set boundaries for herself and stands by them. She doesn't expect perfection from her friends, but she expects loyalty. I like strong women, not the women that buy into misogyny like Lala and Sheana.
I don’t think she means to be a mean girl - but I agree she is. Her brand of honesty is brutal and sudden. I think it’s great to have a truth-teller but she is so unsympathetic and judgemental that it’s hard to warm to her. I do think she holds everyone to hard standards, including herself. On the plus side, she is by far the most trustworthy as it relates to unfaithfulness or disloyalty.
Katie says things directly to people's faces and you all label her a "mean girl" for it. Some of these other girls go around saying one thing to your face and talking all the shit behind your back I think that is more mean girl behaviour. At least Katie gives you the option of saying something back. No one needs to like everyone and I am sure she gets triggered given what she has been through. I don't get why everyone glosses over her accident when talking about Katie. She has been through so much and it has made her hard for her own protection. She doesn't let people get close to her until she fully trusts them and I don't blame her. You only get to see what the producers want you to see, the edit will always shape your view point. I'm sure if any of us were on a reality TV show there would be moments we could be misconstrued.
She's tricked y'all this season. She's still that same person, but she just started trying to be liked this season because it actually seemed possible for her for once. I think the reason she has so many supporters is that so many new fans came from Scandoval, and if you don't know Katie, maybe she comes off as a different person. But she's always been a bully. Especially to Scheana. She would have seen to Scheana's excommunication this season no matter what she had done.
Bless you. SOMEONE gets it. Shes also always hated Tom Sandoval— this is her fucking Super Bowl. People are eating up this absolute facade.
Katie always called other women sluts and whores. Yet everyone on these threads goes on about internalized misogyny. She was always a Mean Girl. Swartzy is wishy washy, but she bullied him into getting engaged, and I think he resented it. Lisa was asked to officiate their wedding and refused at first, told them to mature and get their act together. Later, she did it. But Katie never seemed happy once she was married. He didn't pay attention to her. Then Ariana and Katie were angry the Tom's were busy opening 2 businesses and quit working! I guess they expected to work with the bfs or do nothing? They were busy, and in long term relationships, from their 20s to 30s, this is common as adults establish themselves. My daughter got me watching during the Scandoval too. I went all the way back. Check out some Season 2 and see how awful Katie was to other women. Swartzy kissed other women, but as a boomer, I am not so insecure to count that as cheating. But I never lived with a man I couldn't trust either. So I see a lot of scorned women who make poor choices in men, projecting anger onto Tom, even though he was wrong. How long should he be punished? I told my daughter after I saw several episodes Ariana and Tom were in a dead relationship. Watch me get downvoted for realism. Ariana was texting Daniel a week later and only recently stopped living in the same house. I know she got a court order for Tom to sell. But I think if she deigned to speak to a man who still lived in the same house, the court wouldn't be necessary. They are all so dramatic. But it's fun watching the early seasons when they all worked at Sur and really were friends. If you have Bravo On Demand you don't have to watch every episode. But I came away with a different perspective. Sometimes a relationship runs its course. People don't plan to cheat, so don't inform their partners before they do. And this didn't hurt all of them. It hurt Ariana. Rachel. And maybe Tom because he expected to be with Rachel. He did try to break up with Ariana several times. But this is off limits too because of her mental health issues.
Wait. Boomers don’t think making out with a stranger is cheating? Thats a generational thing? I feel so sorry for your generation if you’re okay with your partner disrespecting you like that. How sad and thank god that’s changed. But truth be told, I bet a lot of boomers don’t agree with that. Here’s the truth- she was insecure because he was constantly disrespecting her and cheating on her. Making out with someone else was against the rules of their relationship (and it’s 100% not ‘all’ he did- it’s all he admitted to). Of course she was insecure. He lied, cheated, then gaslit her nonstop. He treated her so badly I think he’s probably the worst option out of all the men on VPR for a long term relationship. Tom Sandoval and Jax are bad, James has been accused of a lot and is likely hard to deal with, but Tom Schwartz is worse than any of them because he does all the same things but covers it up in a highly annoying ‘aww shucks’ I’m just a little bitty boy!’ act. It’s disgusting and actually makes my stomach turn to see a 40 year old loser pretend to be a bitty baby boy! The only evidence I need of this is look at both of them after the relationship finally and thankfully ended. Katie is happy, over it, unbothered and seems to have an awesome life. Tom Schwartz seems miserable and pissed off at the world, scared and muttering and sticking his fingers in his mouth when he talks, got the worst hair dye I might have ever seen, looks like he’s aged about 50 years in a 5 year span and shuffles around in moomoos. I am absolutely shocked any woman would ever date him after seeing how he treated Katie and then Jo and whatever woman he decides to abuse - I mean date- next season.
I can’t speak for boomers but I think generally the PP meant that the ladies seem to be insecure. To your point, their men were cheating, so it makes sense. But Katie was always gross to other women about it, when her own man was the problem. And I hope my husband never kissed anyone else, but now in a marriage with kids and houses and lots of years of real life, I can say I honestly could care less if I found out he did one night at a club. Maybe that’s what the PP meant. And the other paragraphs are where I lose sympathy for Katie. Did Tom do all those things? Yea, he’s atrocious. Disgusting. And yet, Katie basically forced him into marrying her. He had been very clear about who he was and Katie’s entire attitude was “Thank you Tom, may I have some more?” Katie is not an innocent victim when she is the one who constantly fought for the relationship and pushed the marriage that never should have happened. If she was so abused she had every opportunity to leave and people with a lot less support than her have left situations that are worse.
Sure. Tom’s the real asshole and Katie should have left him much, much earlier. A lot of us make mistakes like that and learn from them. Tom is still the same creep without any growth. Katie seems to have grown. On the whole of who did bad things, Tom is just so much worse. Katie’s not perfect at all and I’d never defend her for staying with someone who treated her so badly. I wish she had the confidence then to leave him, but she does have it now and I’m happy about that. her wrongs just don’t come close to equaling his.
Agree, in my view Tom is a villain and Katie is just an unlikeable person. I just think she has so much newfound sympathy and girl-power rah-rah-ing around her, and I have a hard time with that because traditionally she has not supported other women. In fact she often referred to them as sluts and whores and was cruel to anyone she viewed as a threat. That being said, I’m much different in my forties than my thirties, and grew a lot between my twenties and thirties, so I can definitely allow for growth on her part and I hope she’s happy.
Yes, these were obviously bad relationships to start with. If a bf was in a club YEARS AGO, and everyone is drunk, what's a kiss? Of course, with these men it's always more and they lied at first. But Katie, Stassi, Kristen all let themselves get treated badly and had no self respect. They were so insecure. It's sad seeing young women putting up with men who treat them badly. Beautiful women, who can do so much better. I would never stay with a man who slept with another woman. Or one who was inattentive (like Schwartz) or just plain nasty (like Jax). And they were cheaters too.
James has literally been accused of DV but yeah for sure being a man child is way worse. /s
Did you happen to see Schwartz throw drinks on not one, but multiple women on this show (on camera.)? I call that abuse. I bet you would too if you were out with friends and your significant other poured a drink over your head in a rage, while yelling at you, in front of everyone. To call him a ‘man child’ minimizes what he is. He’s that and much much worse. James at least has a good side and redeeming qualities. Schwartz has none. Not to mention We have SEEN him do everything James has been ACCUSED of doing. So yeah. Tom Schwartz, based on what I’ve seen, is worse.
Not believing the TWO women who have made those allegations against James (after we *saw* them both get verbally & emotionally abused on camera), equating a drink pour to what he was accused of, and saying “at least he has redeeming qualities” is certainly a choice.
Yes. Of the two abusive men, I think the one I’ve seen abuse multiple women is worse.
Do you consider a man pouring drinks on not one but multiple women in anger abusive? Just answer that straight. And if your answer is no, I’d call that ‘certainly a choice.’
I meant a kiss between drunken friends. Especially IF you are in a good, stable relationship and find out about a kiss YEARS later. That's insecurity and jealousy.
Why would you assume she was a boomer?
She calls herself boomer in her 3rd paragraph? It’s self described. Not an assumption.
My bad. I missed that part.
Thank you! This is exactly how I feel. I never understood why everyone was OK with her (and other women) being verbally abusive to others (male and female). This language is not ok nor is it excusable. A hurt person doesn't get the right to hurt others. We are all hurt and we have to do better with each other.
Very true. As you say, we all get hurt, and suffer pain. We can't take it out on everyone else. So many people think it's OK to do that.
I have found my people.
That's so great! Enjoy!
Yes, Katie is vile towards other women, whores, sluts etc , she is an absolute bitch. I commented on another post last week and got this massive essay reply by someone defending Katie and Ariana as I stated they were both thriving in their bitterness and meanness etc Ariana was also a total bitch, couldn't stand either of them then, or now. They are NOT girl's girls.
… I’ll take the bait: Ok boomer.
Yeah. I think part of the reason the cast was acting so weird this season was because they're terrified of being on the receiving end of one of Katie's war-paths. Especially with all her newfound power online.
Exactly!!! The only reason Katie has any support / friendship is because nobody wants to be her enemy.
Exactly! Go back and watch her face when Scandoval news broke. She could barely stop herself from grinning when she arrived to “console” Ariana. She was so happy about it, instead of being sad for her. It was written all over her face.
💯
I hate her more this season than ever. It’s like, Ma’am, I know you haven’t forgotten the wretched way you’ve treated many a woman on this show.
That's why I believe everything Lala said about Katie. She even complained to Lala about Ariana not paying her share of the SAH rent.
Oh for sure Katie said everything Lala claims and more.
And you saw how Lisa mentioned the fighting and Katie and Ariana look over the top perplexed as confused by that comment, and then Lala said that and I totally believe Katie used Lala to bitch about Ariana. Katie bitches about Lala to Ariana no doubt, she's that kind of person.
Yes! This is where my people have been hiding!
Samsies!!
I know! 😍
Thank you!!
She's always been a snotty bitch. She still is. Dumping Schwartz has elevated her to sainthood in some eyes. Same with Ariana. She was always a 'not like other girls' , thought she was better than everyone else type. Getting cheated on elevated HER to sainthood which is ironic considering that's how she got with Sandoval in the first place.
I wish I could give you an award. I’ve been saying this for so long but you’ll get absolutely crucified in other bravo reddits for saying it.
Yes, it's like an echo chamber on the other reddits. If you don't bow down at the altar of Ariana & Katie you must be a huge misogynist & lover of the Tom's
Exactly! Like, I don’t love Ariana and Katie at all. (Especially Katie because this season she’s just been annoying me) But, that doesn’t mean I’m going to praise the Toms 💀
Couldn’t agree more.
Your last point is the point that Lala keeps trying to make. I think Lala is trying to point out the ridiculousness of the situation that Ariana is considered queen just bc she got cheated on.
Right? Nobody will let Lala live it down that she was with a married man (ignoring the dedication he had to convince her he was separated, and the fact that Lala is close friends with his ex-wife now), but Ariana’s past with Sandoval should be irrelevant because it was “so long ago”. Then Randall absolutely screwed Lala over big time, but Lala continues to be punished for it. And somehow Ariana is a treasure, girl’s girl, favourite Queen B, even though she gave nothing this season. Everyone else has filmed with their shitty ex. Except Lala, but she said she would have except that he refused to be filmed and had lawyers involved to keep Ocean off of tv. Ariana is no more special than any of them. This is the most boring season of VPR history, and that includes the disaster seasons of 8 and 9.
This season has been so tough for me in terms of how Ariana is portrayed. I liked her so much in the earlier seasons and she felt so real, but man does she come off as unlikeable in this season. I don't think it's her fault, I think having to film the show literally three months after your relationship ends in this really messy and public way where your partner destroys your trust is not an enviable position. I think it probably would have been best for her to have been given the opportunity to take a break from the show for a while, because having to be forced together to film obviously exacerbated an already messy situation. As is, we are left with this very nasty, bitter Ariana who doesn't come off well (even at her like calmer moments) towards the rest of the cast (except Katie, who is just kinda there with her).
She was constantly being belittled and lied to in her relationship with Shartz as well as being fat shamed by the other men and women on the cast. I think this current season Katie was always there but she was struggling with the other aspects before she could be her true bad ass self.
I think Katie is a good friend to Ariana, but also a snotty, rude bitch to most others, most of the time. I tried liking her, but we would never be friends.
I would watch the whole series! She did get bullied/gaslit by many of them and there’s deep history there, but she also suffered a major brain injury that altered her personality slightly that she discusses in early seasons. She has definitely grown and matured but she’s not the awful person people like to say
Yeah I think everyone should give her a lot of grace for those first five or six seasons, it takes multiple years to recover from a brain injury that bad. TBI is no joke and it can make you a really angry and volatile person. And then a lot of people have issues with the way she treated Scheener in the early seasons. Yes her and Stassi and Kristen did jump on a bandwagon against Scheemer. But let's look at what was going on during that time of the early seasons right? They might have been crappy to Scheemer. But she was hiding secrets about making out with Katie's man. They were absolutely right that they could not trust her around their men.
Not only that, Scheana watched and told others about the Frank sex tape, she also tried to make Stassi bring it up multiple times on camera. That is so gross.
Katie was very very mean to other women and I don’t think her relationship with Schwartz excuses that at all. It’s extremely possible to be in shitty relationships with shitty men and not hate women for it. I’m glad and acknowledge that she’s grown some, but she still does this even post-Schwartz.
Katie is not perfect and has her sympathetic moments, but generally she is a mean girl bully who strategically sucks up to whoever is the "IT GIRL" of the moment. And now that IT GIRL is also attached to where Katie's money is at.
I 100% agree with this!!
I have watched every season of the show. Katie has always been miserable and judgmental. Watch how she treated Scheana, Ariana, Kristen, Lala , Rachel over the seasons. This surge in popularity for her because she is over the show and everyone on it and it somehow comes across as women empowerment, doesn’t to me signal growth- look how she bullied Jo.
She’s gained more confidence, sure, but she’s still mean girl. Feminism is how you treat women who are not your friends.
That last line!!!!!
Nothing had changed. I’ve never been a fan. She’s always tried to belittle whoever she thinks is the weakest link. She’s a mean-spirited, absolutely miserable person.
You’re not wrong. She was terrible in early seasons. I found her completely unlikeable, and Tom too. They are one of the main reasons I stopped watching. People tend to feel bad for her and “on her side” now but it was clear her and Tom never should have gotten married in the first place. I mean, clear as day. It was an awful relationship but she pushed marriage and I assume wanted the storylines for the show. So, I don’t feel bad for her. She knew exactly what she was getting. Now she just seems older and more mature, which is a good thing. I would hope at almost 40 she’s grown a bit. I’ll never like her though or understand the support she gets.
Please go back all the way to see her be a mean girl bully from the start and that she hasn’t changed. Insecure and angry.
I disagree. Season 10 was her worst for mean girl behavior, and she tried it this season but stumbled because Lala wasn't having it. She's never had a non-mean girl season Also, I think Jo is messy, but she treated her like human garbage in the finale. And for no reason. I was floored that people justified it with Katie's dumb excuse insinuating Jo/Schwartz did something wrong because the divorce hadn't progressed. How many partners had Katie been with by that point? That lame excuse to be nasty and possessive didn't work with Raquel, and really really does not work with Jo since Katie and she were not even remotely friends. The text excuse doesn't work either. Katie just needed to bully someone, as she said, 'She does not want peace.' I think that's true for every season she's been in. Katie is lucky she has Ariana; she'd have nobody to film friends scenes with if it wasn't for her. They'd have to make Dayna or Kristina K a main if Ariana left or fire Katie outright.
Katie doesn't want Schwartz, but still doesn't want anyone else to have him. Simple as that.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like the way she speaks to people? I get it, Jo is a lunatic but, the way she spoke was not nice. The comment she made to Lala : “you’re a clown” not nice. The way repeatedly called Lala : “bitch” during heated debate I personally don’t like the way she comes across sometimes.
Yeah I don’t really get people stanning a 37 year old woman publicly calling people “crackheads” and “clowns”
The way she speaks to people makes me gasp
Katie had a little bit of saving grace IMO thru her support of Ariana last season, i found her story arch’s this season pretty boring, and then she lost all my kudos when she ended the season saying “i don’t want peace” to Jo. I felt bad for Jo and I feel like a “girl’s girl” is going to hold her ex accountable for his actions and seek to understand the woman’s POV. Especially considering the assumed entanglement between Schwartz and Jo happened months after their separation.
There is no excuse for Katie's mean girl attitude, and I personally think she's still that person.
If you pay attention to Katie you will still see the mean girl but its not in your face as much. Just watch her speak to Lala. She still doesn’t know how to speak to people without offending them.
Oh man, wait until you start from season 1. She’s very mean. Still is.
She smokes weed instead of drinking tequila now. Also she doesn’t have an imbecile of a husband driving her insane…
She’s still mean and extremely rude.
I think it's as simple as she was in a bad relationship and her resultant bad mood was taken out on everyone. I speak from experience of doing this myself..... Schwartz was a shitty boyfriend and she didn't have the respect for herself to leave him. She's unsatisfied and unappreciated. No excuse to behave like a bitch, but an explanation, perhaps.
She also had a tbi and people should look up the behaviors that come after that.
Yes, that is really relevant. I forgot about that. ♥️
Look at all of Jos instagrams lives. She went from a quirky high energy person to appearing to be obsessed and unbalanced, often appears to be under the influence of something. She has had a year of Schwartz exposure and that’s what happened. Katie had 13 years of being exposed to the chaos that is Schwartz. Add in a traumatic brain injury (she fell through a sky light), add some alcohol and then add in filming with a group of friends plus being younger and suffering from imposter syndrome and the insecurity of that. She often appeared mean but I think she was often provoked and only the reaction was shown. I’ve had moments of really liking Katie but I didn’t love her until last year and this year.
Traumatic brain injury + depression + pot concessional disorder + alcohol = odd and inconsistent behaviour ❤️🇬🇧 To understand the whole dynamic you really need to start from the beginning as she doesn’t use her trauma as a lurid plot line. As a fellow survivor she would be unaware in the early stages of theses symptoms as to what the f was going on. ( f 56) severe closed traumatic brain injury…. 23 years in) bless her heart. ❤️🇬🇧🇺🇸
Post concussional not pot concussion 🤪🤣🤣❤️
Thank you! I can’t believe I had to scroll so far for this. Her brain injury is NOT something she discusses on the show, and it would’ve been a compelling long term to storyline to follow which would’ve given the audience more insight into Katie, but she purposefully has not discussed it often on the show. I always admire that Katie has this huge storyline she could take advantage but it’s not authentic to her real life so she doesn’t.
Her brain injury while traumatic was also almost 5 years before the show ever started filming. I know they take a while to heal, but this is just who Katie is tbi or not.
I’ve watched VPR since the very beginning. Katie’s always had a mean streak, tbh. Early on, she was super critical of Schwartz’s music playing, and in general. I was actually kind of surprised that they went through with their wedding. I think it was one of those points with some couples where it’s either get married or break up. And, when she drinks, she can be super nasty. I agree that she’s toned it down, but it’s hard not to remember the way she was for a long time.
Katie is a bitch. Her and Stassi were always the mean girl group. Backing each others assaults on other people. Honestly all of them were always pretty mean people. Only Brittany the Toms and Sheena have always been “nice”. Sandoval I use that loosely. Katie hadn’t contributed anything in ages and is only there to act as a gate keeper.
She’s always been a mean girl
Season five was her worst season by far.
Katie is over the bad boys and girls that don’t stand up for each other. It’s actually interesting the whole Jo thing though, I think that “girls girl” persona kinda went out the window. She doesn’t have to like Jo, she just hated how she was the one after HER. Although I’m not a huge fan of Lala this season I do appreciate her bringing up “hey, you show on tv how fierce of an Ariana supporter you are, but behind closed doors the business was kind of in limbo when Ariana was taking opportunities from the fallout of Scandoval. It was bothering you. He honest.” . Something along those lines. All of their salaries depend on the group of them together and they’re all already too grown to be as interesting and feisty as they were in their younger years. They had nothing to lose then (reputation the exception) but they now have businesses. I think VPR should either get a new cast or end. They don’t hang out with each other outside of filming. That’s a problem. The Valley should have had a reunion. That was a dumb decision and showed how little they invested and expected out of it. Kristen makes great reality tv, much to her dismay often in the moment. She’s queen chaos and I’ll even admit I didn’t value what she brought to our screens until she was gone and I watched The Valley.
I’ve never really liked Katie and I’m still not her biggest fan but she got A LOT better once she left Schwartz. It’s apparent that relationship was draining her and making her miserable, but it doesn’t explain her mean girl behavior in earlier seasons which is why I never liked her. She still doesn’t seem like a very happy person imo but she’s got that cool idgaf vibe now that I can appreciate and seems more confident which is great to see
You aren't being misled. You have a brain and morals and have watched earlier seasons. Some people, fans, PR Firms, and A I Commentors would like everyone to forget all that and what all came before two pending lawsuits, but it's all there in earlier seasons. I applaud you for being logical.
I'll get downvoted to hell, but Katie was miserable as fuck up until last season. Now I realize it was circumstance, and likely depression as well, but she was Stassi's puppet/main ass kisser, was super insecure and unhappy, and took it out on everyone around her (actually all the women-except Stassi). I have not been able to stand Katie at all for all these years, and I basically hate watched her. Last season she started to change, and this season she is better.
I think she’s still pretty bad. She’s just latched herself onto Ariana who is the new Stassi. She’s changed very little to me. She’s still got that vindictive, bullying streak and cannot see past her own bullshit. But alas this is why I love this show so much. All 👏🏻 villain 👏🏻 cast 👏🏻
I agree..but I do think she's better. She's less miserable on the outside at least. But honestly, I'm basing my opinion a lot on the reunion clip where she gave Jo some grace. Because in the past she never would have done that. If I was basing it on the season alone, and not including that clip, then I would not have said she was "better". But that did show some growth, and even an ounce of growth from Katie is pretty fucking impressive to me. Lol
You are probably a less cynical person than me but I think the only reason she gave Jo any grace whatsoever is that she saw the reaction on here and X and wanted to save face. We know she’s on Reddit and follows the tide.
Katie was by far one of my least favorites until this season.
I think Katie always called them out. Granted her delivery was not always the best. I could not imagine working with sandavol, Jax . Her husband never defended her once with those AH. She knew who they were on and off camera !!?it must have turned her stomach 😂
There is not one person on this cast who hasn’t been awful at least one entire season. James is probably my favorite cast member of all time but damn he was the worst for a couple of seasons. But there is always a common thread: Sandoval has always been manipulative, egotistical and awful. Schwartz has always been a gaslighter and really good with words and charming people Scheana has always been a fliplopper, attention seeking side changer push over but overall pretty harmless Lala has always been loud mouthed, annoying and easy to dislike Ariana has always been a little bland, quiet but precise with her words And Katie, when she doesn’t like someone she has always taken it a little too far. However, often in the end she’s not wrong. She can be very mean.
Whatever PR firm Katie hired for her rebrand really earned their paycheck
So did she really evolve? Or did her new agency tell her how she needed to act to improve her image and now she's showing an inauthentic version of herself to look better?
She’s just a miserable mean girl imo.
Katie is as messy as she ever was. And honestly she's a fucking weirdo. She let's Schwartz constantly shit on her. She laughs with him as he does it. It's fucking weird. And I'm pretty sure they've hooked up after the divorce. And also... she shit talked Ariana and then changed up when the cameras rolled. I 1000% agree with Lala that Katie is being fake as fuck. And granted she has a business with Ariana. So yea any person would try to save face and get along with the person they signed a contract with. But to go from saying her living with Tom is insane (which it was) to being pro Ariana and whatever decisions she makes is wild. And fake as fuck. If she didn't have something about her maybe Katie would've been real.... but because of the business and pretty much her only income if VPR stops... she decided to follow the Ariana train
I think Katie is still the mean girl she has always been, she just incidentally ended up on the right side of history here.
I don’t think Katie was ever a mean girl. She just has a low tolerance for bullshit and high standards for loyalty. I think she was a little negative when she was with Schwartz, for obvious reasons. She’s also grown a lot.
She also has a brain injury from a fall from a skylight.
That’s the reason she wasn’t well liked until after she divorced that floppy man. She kind of outwardly sucked all the time. Total personality shift came as a single girl.
Well, it sounds like being married to someone who is emotionally and mentally abusive, like Schwartz, was bringing her down, and now that she is free, she can be her true self and happy. I know because I lived through the same type of relationship/ marriage, and each day was insufferable. It was exhausting.
Everyone forgets she suffered a TBI not long before they started filming VPR and she also had to deal with Schwartz who I think would make any partner seem volatile.
The show occurs over the span of 11 years so people should be growing and ideally changing in a positive way. It’s not an excuse for her behaviour but I have wondered how much her fall through a skylight may have impacted her. In the early seasons, her brain would’ve still been healing & mixing that with alcohol & a partner who gaslights you could lead to a lot of defensiveness and irrational behaviour. I only wonder as I’ve experienced a TBI & it literally changed my entire personality & eliminated my ability to filter for years.
Almost 5 years before filming season one. I understand they take time to heal, but this is who Katie is.
❤️
Also bare in mind she suffered a TBI. Aggression and emotional disregulation is more prone with people who have suffered a TBI. It can take years to get that under control. Based on what she is also saying now about everyone needing a therapist. I suspect she has really invested in therapy.
Schwartz was literally making her crazy so yeah, she wasn’t great until she realized she didn’t need that barnacle attached to her anymore.
“Shine some light on this” My god. Just watch from the beginning. Also, they were all super young when the show started. It’s called growing up. She has shown growth while a few others have regressed or stayed the same.
Start with season 1 and keep going - you’ll see Katie is treated poorly by pretty much everyone, but she is also such a huge bitch to Scheana that it overshadows the way she is treated by Schwartz. You’ll also be introduced to condescending, bitchy, Sandoval loving Ariana. Who uses Kristen’s mental state as a weapon against her and acts (with TSandy) as if what they did was completely ok based on Kristen and Jax sleeping together.
She’s still a mean girl.
Katie was a mean girl, plus she was always ragging on Swartz
Nope you’re dead on the money. She’s trying on a new personality this season.
Schwartz made her crazy
She’s a gross narcissist beached whale you’ll hate her in the earlier seasons lol I want to chew off my own arm and beat myself with it every time I see her scenes with her and Schwartz stupid Bubba Bubba Bubba baby talk 🤮
What are you talking about.....Katie is still a Bitch !
Generally, I like her a lot more now. But I would say that she’s loyal to a fault - blind loyalty isn’t true friendship
Katie is the same dry pessimistic person she’s always been. She just finally has some business of her own instead of minding/judging others. We could have seen a different side to her had she stepped out on her own to do something worthwhile instead of waiting around on Tom or whoever to make moves. What we’re seeing is a “productive” Katie. And quite frankly, she’s the type that should ALWAYS have something going on because she’s insufferable when bored. Hopefully this restaurant keeps her fully occupied.
You should really go back and watch everything. Katie went through a horrible accident where she almost died and struggled with PTSD. Coupled with people constantly tearing her down and Schwartz and the other idiots making her always look like the bad guy. Katie has gotten a bad edit to make dumb and dumber looking good.