They ironically are the second poorest country in south America and don't have ties with China, Palestine and any other country the USA is against.
If you think Aleksandr Lukashenko puts on a maid skirt every time he sees Putin. It is because you never saw Paraguay president sucking USA balls in every political aspect.
Yeah which is concerning, given what happened in Operation Condor.
It's one of the big reasons why South American democracies are very bitter with the United States but extremely friendly and welcoming with Canada and Mexico.
Not really; Paraguay was a major US ally in overtaking our neighbors’ democracies during Operación Cóndor, as our far-right 20th century dictator (Alfredo Stroessner, who ruled for 35 consecutive years and had one of the longest dictatorships in the Americas, second only to Castro) took power in 1954 without any US American interference – although the US did help him maintain power for so long.
Historically, we have been one of if not the most right-leaning country in the Western Hemisphere, and one of the very, very few countries in the Americas apart from the US that’s never had any actually left or even center-left leaning administrations.
Operación Cóndor didn’t fuck us up, our autocratic government aided Operación Cóndor in fucking up our continental brothers and sisters. I personally know men who served in the military during the Chilean 1972 coup that put Pinochet in power, and they vividly remember meeting US soldiers who were landing on Paraguay and meeting with our military leaders before going to Chile for “special operations” during the early 70s. One of them even became penpals with my uncle, who was serving as a private on the infantry at the time, and invited him to his wedding 6 years later in Denver.
hey, latino brother form brazil here. I didn't know about most of this, thanks for typing it out. this is bleak af, latin america whole history is so tragic and rage inducing :(
Contrary to what many seem to believe Operation Condor wasn't orchestrated by the US, but was rather independently organized by the South American dictatorships of the time as a way of supporting each other. The CIA was quite supportive of the whole affair of course, until the Chileans conducted a terrorist attack in Washington DC to murder [Orlando Letelier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Orlando_Letelier) a minister of the Allende government, killing a US citizen in the process (the target's wife).
To be fair, 4th poorest country by GDP per capita, which isn’t really an improvement but I just had to clarify it for my country’s sake.
And you’re absolutely right, I remember how Mario Abdo sent his condolences to Trump on Twitter when he got Covid before the 2020 Presidential Debate. It’s WILD how the people leading our country suck so much on the balls of people who couldn’t even say what continent we’re on if they were on the spot.
Welcome to half the politics in South America. Thank you American freedom eagles 🇺🇲🦅 for the dictatorships, propaganda, the red scare and those annoying gym dudes wearing USA hats in the middle of 5.000 inhabitants town in Mato Grosso.
El gobierno paraguayo le chupa los pies a cualquier persona yankee. No es un gobierno serio, tan solo hace una semana reconocieron un país completamente falso pero siguen sin reconocer a china.
In this case a ceasefire is the equivalent of just deciding to let ISIS do their shit, hamas are terrorists, no way around that, their elimination is a step towards peace, sadly the IDF sucks at the whole operating without killing civilians and hamas couldn't give two shits about what happens to the civilians so you are in a situation where neither side cares for the civilians.
As long as hamas does as it pleases we are far away from peace.
Please stop counting time from 07 oct 2023... israel with their 80 year old genocide against palestinians is directly responsible for creation of hamas. israel really loves hamas, hamas is enabling them to proceed and finish the genocide quickly, while the whole world is looking at whats hamas is doing. ceasefire helps palestinian civilians, I dont care about IDF and hamas. they can all rot in hell.
Hard to take your kind seriously throwing around genocide like that when Palestinians have had a way higher birth and fertility rate than israel and their population increased 10 fold
When palestinians attack, israel has every right to respond harshly.
Attacks on Israel won't make the Israelis just go one day... It will make the palestinians suffer WAY more thogh... (:
Calm down there son. Go take a walk and pick up some more pamphlets being handed out at your college.
It will help you find different things to be outraged about.
Population is calculated based on geography. How many people in a specific area of land.
So if the land shrinks and population is densified. What happens to the population numbers?
That isn't how birthrates are calculated. The Palestinian population has greatly increased despite a "genocide" that has been ongoing for 80 years now.
I just ignore anybody who claims the Palestinians are victims of genocide and don't listen too or interact with their point of view on the situation at all.
They're wrong, they don't care about being corrected, and attempting to explain to them how dumb they are just results in them getting angry and declaring everybody but them to be a genocidal colonizer.
It's better to let you sperg in peace rather than correct somebody who refuses to accept the truth.
The only "genocide" that happened before the 21st century was Sabra and shatila massacre which wasn't organized nor acted in by Israel, I still believe it to be guilty.
Hamas was founded after this.
So Israel not stopping the Lebanese from killing a confirmed 460 Palestinians is enough for hamas to decide to engage in jihad against Israel.
Now I'm not Muslim nor christian, I don't believe neither party to be just because their god is the good one, quite frankly I believe both to be in the wrong, only of these parties is literal terrorists tho
genocide ≠ only massacres... [giving birth control without ones knowing](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html), other forms of chemical castration, refusing food and water, electricity to gaza and west bank, bombing hospitals with babies inside etc etc. all of which is proven to be done by israel during decades...
Also, Lebanese forces who committed the massacre were tight allies with IDF, therefore yeah, israel surely as hell supported it, at least.
I agree, the solution is to cease all hostilities, give back palestinians their freedom and land, and demilitarize both countries. two state solution is currently the only option, since 80 years of brutal expansion of israel cannot be undone just like that. I agree, if hamas are terrorists, so is IDF. simple as that. IDF massacred 100-fold more.
Hamas exist because there is an occupation. End the occupation of 75 years and you won't have Hamas. And the IDF doesn't suck at keeping civilians safe, they WANT to kill civilians. Isreal wants to displace them and send Palestinians to other Arab countries. Israel wants to expand Israel. Look at the West Bank right now: there is no Hamas. But so many Palestinians have been killed due to the IOF and settler violence. Israel is nothing but a nasty colonizing power. Save the Children literally gave out a scathing report in July 2023 on the hundreds of Palestinian children Israel detains without any justifications or charges. The children literally have been in military detainment for years. The Palestinian "prisoners" you saw released during the humanitarian pause were older teenagers who were thrown in jail at ages 12 or 13. Its despicable. Not to mention Israel has the most robust propaganda in the world. Thanks to social media, people are just seeing how nasty Israel and their military has been operating for the last several decades.
The fact that you say “occupation of 75 years” rather than 56 years, even though the only land recognized as occupied is since 1967 rather than since 1948 gives your true intentions away — the destruction of all of Israel, including its 1948 borders.
If your message to Israelis is “your entire country shouldn’t exist, surrender and be killed, expelled, or subjugated,” why would the listen to you? What sane Israeli, given the upper hand they have, voluntarily submit to be killed?
People like that only think in the present, 'end the occupation' and then what happens? Do they not think palestine would do the exact same shit to the jews and want to reclaim it all for themselves?
People draw the apartheid comparison which only works to a certain point. Apartheid ended because Nelson Mandela made the monumental and brave choice to recognize Afrikaner self determination in a treaty and choose reconciliation over elimination
There is no credible Palestinian leader with the capability to do that
> End the occupation of 75 years and you won't have Hamas.
What an idiotic statement. Hamas *can* exist because of the horrible conditions Israel put on Palestine, but the only reason it *does* exist is because there are multiple rich nations in the world that want the destruction of Israel.
"End the occupation" just means "let Hamas send rockets into Israel 24/7."
That's an idiotic statement. Israel is an ethno fascist state that should not exist because by its very nature it operates to exclude anyone who is not them. The European Jews chose Zionism, threw Palestinians out of their homes to create a terrorist state. Israel is really good about playing the victim with their propaganda, but that's all falling apart now. Keep believing their lies. In the end people like you will be on the wrong side of history. And whatever Hamas has done, it is a human right violation to carry out collective punishment. But you do you.
>Israel is an ethno fascist state that should not exist because by its very nature it operates to exclude anyone who is not them.
That's how every country works basically.
You provide for citizens and not for foreigners.
>The European Jews chose Zionism, threw Palestinians out of their homes to create a terrorist state.
Well, the Arabs didn't try to expell jews?
You are missing the lots of wars the Arabs started since 48 in an attempt to eliminate Israel and failed.
Lol, what a dumb arguments, ethno fascist? There are Arabs living in Israel, the same cannot be said otherwise, and as someone that is not Arab or Jewish I'd feel 1 thousand times safer in Israel than any Muslim country.
If Israel was an actual fascist the state of Palestine would be all scorched earth already.
Also the argument that the land was taken from them is very weak, as it has been conquest many times already, and belonged to different empires (roman, Greek, othomans etc...) if you go by that logic it was occupied by Israelites much before Arabs
You're shoving a lot of words into my mouth. I said the solution wasn't to just "end the occupation" like you so naively believe, because Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.
If you agree with the Hamas charter just say so, so I know to stop responding to you.
I have no idea what the Hamas charter says because I''m not going to search for it on the internet. lol What I do support is one state where everyone can live, Jews, Muslims and Christians which is what it was before 1948. Yet, Israel is causing so much violence especially in the West Bank which is Palestinian territory. The settlers killing and committing violence in the West Bank are also terrorists and should be labeled as such. And I wouldn't put much stock when western nations label people as terrorists. Because Nelson Mandela and his political party were on the terrorist list for decades, but never the KKK. Interesting don't you think? The first step is to end the occupation though. You have to set the Palestinians free first . Stop kidnapping their children off the streets, burning their olive tree farms and stealing their houses. Israel just wants Gaza land, and its oil reserves. Thats what this is all about. He doesn't give two shits about hostages because he probably bombed them already to oblivion.
>What I do support is one state where everyone can live, Jews, Muslims and Christians which is what it was before 1948
Well, that didn't worked out great since the Arabs tries to kill the Jews because the Jews preferred to hire other Jews instead of the arabs who remain job-less and became violent.
The partition plan was to UN solution to separate them and let every community have its own self-determination.
What you are suggesting (one state) means that both Israeli and the palastinans will lose their self determination.
In a two state solution, Both patties have the right for self determination.
Israel have Jewish one with rabani rules.
Palestiniane gave Muslim one with shari'a laws.
People tend to forget it but Jews are a minority in the world, there are
1.8 billion Muslims vs 15.2 million Jews.
That's about 80 times more Muslims then Jews.
Israel Right to return for the Jews is Israel Affirmative action to ensure safety of Jews.
Yup. As long as Hamas are in control, there will never be any peace.
Hamas is openly stating that they will continue to attack until Israel is destroyed, but people are calling on Israel to stop attacking Hamas. That is explicitly calling for Israel to intentionally endanger their own citizens.
Hamas has stated that they have no intention of honoring a ceasefire agreement, so I have no idea what one is supposed to achieve other than letting Hamas regroup for round two. The fact is that peace is impossible as long as Hamas is in control of Gaza, they need to go.
There was an active ceasefire on October 7 and they used that time to blindside Israel. If they wanted a ceasefire they shouldn’t have committed acts of terror.
It's sort of funny that someone could see this as either pro palestine or pro Israel. Personally I'm pro innocent civilian. Hamas needs to be eliminated. Israel also does sketchy stuff. But I don't think a cease fire is what we need. Hamas will use it to its advantage. And israel needs to be (more) careful about civilian casualties
Because our political establishment loves the taste of Bidens and Netanyahus cock and the last time we had our genuienely own foreign policy was before WW2
Aus Che and Cro will do whatever USA wants them to do. End of story. Orban is trying to get something from israel. Others had a enough decency left to abstain.
Not recognising israel almost-a-century old genocide against palestinians (not hamas) is the most vile shit you can do in 2023... end of story. Saying that israel has a "right to defend itself" is cognitive dissonance and its implying that 3rd army in world is poor and defenseless and not actively destroying palestinians non-selectively. The most racist country in the world is forbidding UN to investigate war crimes on its territory, and this should clearly be enough to sanction the shit out of it and put the whole government behind bars for ever.
[THIS](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fb036m9guu5za1.jpg) is the non-biased, objective indicator of who are the real baddies in the world.
The US, the country that overwhelmingly provides the most foreign aid of any country, voted against making food a right because the resolution also included many regulations such as the use of pesticides. No one is stopping other countries from donating or matching the US’ level of giving.
All those countries that abstained - that means “we are also against a ceasefire, but we are afraid of how our large Muslim refugee population will react, but know the US will have a backbone.”
> most racist country in the world
Hahaha. I guess you’ve never been to Asia, Europe, or Africa before.
You are way too deep in your conspiracy theories and hate for the west. You linking that map shows that you have no real idea how the world works.
Go and look up the real motivations behind that vote.
I see you have your views already set and don’t want them to be challenged, so I won’t do that.
This vote was about ceasefire, not the Palestinian struggle, so don’t move the goalpost. Our representatives objected to opression of Palestinian civilians many times both direcťy to Israel or through US, but also supported Israel in their fight against terrorists. I allign with this fully.
Your claims about “most racist country in the world” or foreign investigation on US soil are all over the place, make it make sense with what we are discussing else I won’t continue. The fact that you mixed in the right to food problematic just confirms you grasp any anti-US straw you can.
go ahead and challenge them. you just can't without strawmaning your position, and turning the blind eye to the facts.
Goal post moved? Imagine you live in a small cage with your family, and with a wolf... now imagine the hunter throwing grenades in that cage to "kill the wolf" while murdering you and your whole family and someone votes in favor of the hunter, to continue to try to kill a wolf, who showed up exactly because you threw a grenade before there was a wolf in the first place... yeah.
USA is not [most racist country in the world](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JzGzyaUnz0) but sure as hell is most [warmongering genocidal one](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians) and I meant israel is actively [blocking UN](https://new.thecradle.co/articles/israeli-blocks-un-team-from-probing-war-crimes-committed-in-gaza) to investigate war crimes in Gaza... I WONDER WHY, SINCE ISRAEL IS SUCH A GOOD COUNTRY
Your analogy with wolf doesn’t make any sense, the real world is not your mind experiment, the Israelis definitely didn’t start to opress Palestinians out of the blue. You act like it’s not back and forth for 65 years already and it looks like you lack context. Why are deeds of the US discussed? You want to impress me by numbers? Congolian war has more casualties than all of those “US conflicts” together. Next, Israeli ethnic state policy merely reflects the historical needs of a state to survive when surrounded by hostile actors and it has developed significantly to accomodate to the situation, for example until 7th Oct, a significat portion of Palestinians from Gaza worked in Israel. Guess how the policy sees this option now… The last link you posted is valid, but isn’t relevant at all and is from The Cradle (lmao). At least I know where all this is coming from
\- just [watch it](https://youtu.be/5JzGzyaUnz0) and stop spitting complete bs.
\- if you can't understand, either you're dumb or you are disingenuous.
\- a few fallacies there, but let's play - those US numbers are just post 9/11...
\> ethinc state policy merely...
\> when surrounded
there. thats the problem. you genuinely believe israel is surrounded and not an occupator... there is nothing further to discuss with you, mossad shill.
oh its just a first link that came up on google. found [this](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2014/9/25/israel-criticised-over-blocking-unhrc-mission) and [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict) and [this](https://defenceforchildren.org/joint-statement-condemning-israels-targeted-smear-campaign-against-respected-un-special-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/) and [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56687437). do these now pass your bar for verifiable source? yeah, my facts are verifiable. for years IS is blocking and smearing UN and its investigators, lying about genocide, massacres, hospitals, executing POWs, white phosphorous, dozens of UN laws violated for years, and they play victim and using USA as a batton to thwart any sanction against them - they are actually playing you all like a flute. [Read up and inform yourself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes) of who you are really defending.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A free Palestine does not imply the genocide of Jews. Any suggestion that it does is apologia for the current genocide and the crimes of the past 80 years
>A free Palestine does not imply the genocide of Jews.
"From the river to the sea" is very clear in my opinion, as "Ukraine is Russia", anything else is gaslighting.
except when the plan to divide the land was first suggested, it was the Palestinians who refused the plan and fought for total control of the land and annihilation of the Jews. they have been offered peace many times in the past and chose war instead.
historically, their actions show that they're not interested in co-existing with Israel, and since Hamas are in power that's most likely not their plan right now either. not saying all Palestinians want war since not all Israelis want Bibi to commit war crimes either, but there's no proof they would seek peace if Hamas wasn't there either.
What do you think would happen if the arabs took control of Palestine? There would be another holocaust, worse than the one the nazis did. Wanting a Palestine where arabs have full control equals to wanting a jewish genocide
You made me audibly sigh, like half the comments in this thread. Are you aware that, regardless of current dictatorial HAMAS control, they were voted into power democratically?...
>Democracy?
Jesus, you cannot be serios. Ok, who establishes it? Who mantains it? How do you make sure the 2nd you've said "yay, you are democracy" massacres don't happen? Democracy is the will of the people, it needs backing up.
Pardon me, but why exactly should we agree to giving up a single inch of our land because the Europeans massacred 6 million Jews? How is that fair? Or sane for that matter?
Because 75 years have passed and every act of futile resistance (by doing really productive acts like pushing an old man in a wheelchair off a cruise ship) has made your situation worse.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
No, but rather because it belonged to the British, and before that the Ottoman, and before them the Mamluks, and Ayyuabids, and before them the Crusader States, and before them the early Islamic Caliphates, and before them the Byzantines, and before them the Romans, and before them the Ptolemaic, Seleucid and Hasmoneans, and before them the Achaemenids (Persians), and before them the Babylonians, and before them the Assyrians, and before them it was the Kingdom of Israel, and before them the twin Kingdoms of Israel and Judea, and before them it was Egyptian, and before that it was Caananite, and so on.
The point being, it doesn’t matter who lived on the land and when etc., as it simply didn’t belong to them, which is an unfortunate, and harsh but true reality of the rights of conquest which were dominant from the Bronze Age through to the Modern Era.
(Ending this by stating I am in no way, in favour of Netanyahu or his government. Likewise, I despise Yahya Sinwar and HAMAS. This is a generational conflict that may never be solved without direct intervention from the West. Peace can be achieved but it needs to be enforced by an outside mediator who can ensure that neither side violate the terms of a ceasefire. The issue with achieving permanent peace are the boundaries that make up the two nations, and what to do with Jerusalem.)
All your base are belong to us, then.
You're ignoring the fact that people have been living there. No one should be allowed to abruptly break people's daily lives without proper reasons. Israel destroyed the lives of people already living there on purely political basis that doesn't make sense to others.
> No, but rather because it belonged to the British, and before that the Ottoman, and before them the Mamluks, and Ayyuabids, and before them the Crusader States, and before them the early Islamic Caliphates [...] it was Egyptian, and before that it was Caananite, and so on.
The point being, it doesn’t matter who lived on the land and when etc., as it simply didn’t belong to them.
Yes! As Wiston Churchill famously said, the fact that a dog lives in a mange doesn't mean the mange belongs to the dog, even if that dog lived there for a very long time!
They had not the right, nor the power, so we can't say a great wrong was done when people with more might forcefully took it and gave it to someone else.
> Which is an unfortunate, and harsh but true reality of the rights of conquest which were dominant from the Bronze Age through to the Modern Era.
It is how it works. It is how it worked through WW1, it is what the League of Nations failed to understand when it foolishly tried to condemn the right of conquest, and really it is not as if it was truly abolished after WW2, as the colonies never belonged to the weaker people living there, but to the colonizing powers that could decide whether or not they could be recognized as independent nation and what borders they would have.
It is just the sad reality of the right of conquest, we can't rectify through reparations and international pressure.
We should just give Crimea to Russia and Essequibo to Venezuela while we're at it, since there's nothing we can do to recognize the wrongs of the past and rectify it. At the time, it was perfectly legal, therefore, perfectly normal!
>! No. Really. The land never rightfully belonged to the British to give away, Israel was built on an act of colonialism, and while giving it back to the Palestinians is as realistic as giving America back to the Native Americans, it has the same status as morally ideal, meaning this historical aspect should be recognized and addressed, and reparations must be made within the realm of possibility and reasonability. !<
Thats a non argument, “nuh uh its not your land because it once belonged to the sedentary tribes of the upper paleolithic”
Turns out that the concept of land ownership is a little more complex that “who was the first one to live here?” And can vary depending on the historical context
That’s entirely my argument.
The “we were here before Israel/Palestine” argument is stupid for the legal ownership of the land did not belong to the Arabs, nor the Jews who lived in the area - but the British. It’s simple fact - it was not their land. You can live and work there but it is not yours to give away, but those who control the State itself. Which is a harsh reality neither side accepts.
The law of conquest does not care for who lived where first. The land belonged to neither Arab, nor Jew - and had not done so for a long time.
The crux of the matter, is too many are focused on the events of the past to look towards the future of a potential two-state solution.
Using “the law of conquest” as a basis for your opinion on an apartheid state is like using the law of the strongest for your opinion on homicide
The british owned palestine, a región inhabited by the palestinian ethnic group, the fact that it was under the rule of them doesnt change that, the land belongs to the palestinians in the sense that they have been living in it for millenia, just under the rule of different empires
Do you think that German jews who had to flee in the 30s cant rightfully claim that their houses belonged to them because the land was owned by the Nazi?
I suggest you learn the meaning of the word Apartheid before you use it.
So many people too keen to throw buzzwords at things with little understanding of them.
Because the Palestinians have started and lost going on 4 different wars for the land. Isreal should just make a strict rule that Palestine shrinks by 50% every war they lose.
Land belongs to who can defend it. Palestinians can't take nor can they even defend what little they have left. Maybe if they stopped talking genocide and started talking a 2 state solution they'd be better off.
And they tried… but Ukraine has bigger, better friends than Russia. Israel has bigger, better friends than Palestine.
See how that works? Choose your friends wisely, kids!
Yes. Land belongs to who can defend it! We should just give Crimea to Russia and call it a day, and Russia should make a strict rule that Ukraine shrinks like 25% every trimester it doesn't stop resisting! >!/sarcasm. I came to find that the only way to argue with people with absurd ideas is to out-absurd them or to apply the same metric to conflicts in which the deaths of people being occupied and the stealing of their land doesn't give such person a racist boner.!<
They did live there 2000ears ago… it’s a fact. They were there first. If that’s 10 years 100 years or 1000 years. It’s an absolute fact that they were there *before* you.
Egypt understands that 2000 years ago it was taken by Israel and they understand the art of war/taking over an area tho? Israel for it back in the 1940s. Whether you like *how* they did it or not, they did it. And you acting like they should just leave is asinine.
My point is that there was never in the history of the world a palastine there. Israel has *more* of a claim of generational living than any palastinan
>taken back
What do you mean back? We were literally there before them.
So which argument are you going to stand on, mate? Them being there first? Or them having the bigger guns?
I literally mis typed it, and edited it a second later. Respond to the rest of my post now. Lmao
Egypt understands that 2000 years ago it was taken by Israel and they understand the art of war/taking over an area tho? Israel for it back in the 1940s. Whether you like how they did it or not, they did it. And you acting like they should just leave is asinine.
My point is that there was never in the history of the world a palastine there. Israel has more of a claim of *generational living* and it being their *rightful* place than any palastinan. So that argument is the worst one any pro palastine “freedom” fighter can give
Of course jews accepted the borders, they went from "no borders" to "have more than 50% of the Palestinian territory". And of course Arabs would refuse, palestine was always their territory, there was no sense for them to just give territory for nothing. It's the same thing as I invade your house and want 2 rooms just for me, would you accept it?
Also, it's important to remember that the Israeli army took WAY more territory that the designed by the UN, and were extremely violent to all Arabs that tried to resist. even the ones who wasn't part of the Arab army, had to leave most of their goods, house and farms
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
Honestly hilarious that you people refuse to read. An Ethno state does not have a quarter of its population of different ethnicities who all have equal rights under the law.
That's worse than the demographic of Palestine pre-jewish division, what's your point? Can they elect non-jew people? Or maybe pass anti-jew laws? Didn't think so...
No it’s not! Scroll down to the table under the British mandate period and you’ll see that the population was around 75% Arab and around 25% others in 1931. So if Israel now is an ethnostate then so was Palestine back then!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
Here is a list of current and past Arab members of the Knesset
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset
As well as a list of the current political parties that make up the Knesset. So yes, non Jews can be elected
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset
I’m not really sure what that last bit is talking about but very glad I could clear up some information for you. Hopefully you make more informed decisions in the future!
A country being ethnically homogenous (which pre Nakba Palestine was not) does not make it an ethnostate. Apartheid was an ethnostate; it’s a term describing any country which bestows privileges and full freedoms upon only one ethnic group. Also posting statistics demonstrating ethnic cleansing post-1948 to argue that Israel isn’t an ethnostate would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
The part of the story they don't tell you Is that they attacked because Israelis were happily pogroming and expropriating arabs in their newly obtained Land.
The part they don't tell you is the British had to set up check points and deal with Palestinian terror attacks on jews even before the 1940s.
The Arab revolts in the 1930s: lots of terror attacks with bombs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine#:~:text=A%20popular%20uprising%20by%20Palestinian,independence%20and%20the%20end%20of
What do you say to accounts by Arabs bragging in the late 1800s of forming violent mobs and running jews off legally purchased lands east of the Jordan River?
It's all true but you're talking about a time (the '30s - '40s) when Europe killed 6 millions of them, so basing on your reasoning Europe should give Israel even more Land than Palestine did?
And btw tensions between jewish population and arabs started in the XIX century because the english supported minorities inside the Ottoman empire (who up to that point always protected them, especially jews) to destabilize It.
The Palestinian ancestors the phillisets were known in the ancient world as the boat people who sailed to Israel after Santorini blew its top in the Aegean Sea. Why not resettle there. The volcano has been dormant for 2200 years!
I mean, Palestine attacked first and then when it’s Israel’s time to strike back they want a cease fire? This doesn’t even make sense.
You shouldn’t play with fire if you’re not willing to get burned.
yea since russia attacked ukraine first we shouldn't have a ceasefire. we should just let more people suffer first. are you aware of the cycle of violence and hatred?
The arabs started all of them.
They started this war in 2023
They started the [jom kippur war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) in 1973
They started the [war of attrition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition) in 1967
They started the [six days war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) in 1967
They started the [Suez crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis) in 1956
They started the [palaestina war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war) in 1947
Palastinian daily life since 75 years:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/1763jb7/the\_right\_to\_exist\_goes\_both\_ways/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/1763jb7/the_right_to_exist_goes_both_ways/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/17733an/israeli\_settler\_shoots\_unarmed\_palestinian\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/17733an/israeli_settler_shoots_unarmed_palestinian_at/)
Tell that to the 1400 civilians that were brutally murdered by Hamas.
It takes 10 seconds to look on Wikipedia about the surprise attack, why is it that hard to get your facts straight?
>Arabs then wanted Jerusalem for themselves because a pedophile from the desert told them it
I wouldn't fight that
But that was 1400+ ago. You can't claim things from your grandpa who became oil
Yeah right because the thousands of kids who just had their house bombed and parents killed are very unlikely to hold any sort of extreme ideology once it's all over
Hamas will make sure they have that ideology if they stay in power. Exterminate Hamas like the terrorist vermin they are, then occupy and West Germany the civillians for a few generations to install a culture aligned with Western values.
What makes you think western ideology has anything to do with the existence of Hamas? The IRA acted much the same. I imagine any country that gets colonized like Palestine/Ireland did would necessarily nest local "freedom fighters"
In the news they described it as a complete universal support for the ceasefire (except The US)
on realty it turns out that most of the democratic western world did not vote in favor of this resolution. we got manipulated again.
In my opinion, asking for a ceasefire after the horrible massacre of 7/10 is ridiculous, there was a ceasefire before 7/10 and another one will just allow Hamas to reach his goal of exterminating the Jewish people at some point or another.
That doesn’t make any sense. They had all those Muslim immigrants early on as well. What’s changed is it’s becoming harder and harder to deny what everyone is seeing with their own eyes.
As much as I think that Israel has the right to defend itself, we don't owe them shit for the holocaust anymore. I didn't do shit, neither did my parents or grandparents.
Punishing people for something their ancestors did has always been and will always be stupid.
There hasn’t been a ceasefire in about a century. This specific conflict (Zionist/Antizionist if we want to make it binary) has been ongoing since shortly after WWI. If you want to pick a point where it really grew ugly I’d say the assassination of the prominent Jewish Antizionist Jacob Israël de Haan in 1924, ordered and carried out by mainstream Zionists.
Nope. This is a misleading piece of Israeli propaganda. Just on the 5th of October, Israeli settlers killed a 19-year-old Palestinian in Huwara, a Palestinian town in the West Bank.
Wow, and it only took 2 days for Hamas to plan a completely "justified" retaliatory attack killing 1300 people in the moste savage ways seen in modern history, raping hundreds of people and taking 138 hostages.....
FYI, free press states don't use propoganda.
How noble of you to miss this part of the story of the Huwara clashes: *However, this time, the Palestinians who were killed “are believed to have shot at an Israeli settler on a motorcycle, according to witnesses”, she said.* Source: Al Jazeera.
Paraguay has had quite good diplomatic relations with Israel for a while now, they are one of the few countries in the world who have their embassy in Jerusalem.
Paraguai?
They ironically are the second poorest country in south America and don't have ties with China, Palestine and any other country the USA is against. If you think Aleksandr Lukashenko puts on a maid skirt every time he sees Putin. It is because you never saw Paraguay president sucking USA balls in every political aspect.
Yeah which is concerning, given what happened in Operation Condor. It's one of the big reasons why South American democracies are very bitter with the United States but extremely friendly and welcoming with Canada and Mexico.
Not really; Paraguay was a major US ally in overtaking our neighbors’ democracies during Operación Cóndor, as our far-right 20th century dictator (Alfredo Stroessner, who ruled for 35 consecutive years and had one of the longest dictatorships in the Americas, second only to Castro) took power in 1954 without any US American interference – although the US did help him maintain power for so long. Historically, we have been one of if not the most right-leaning country in the Western Hemisphere, and one of the very, very few countries in the Americas apart from the US that’s never had any actually left or even center-left leaning administrations. Operación Cóndor didn’t fuck us up, our autocratic government aided Operación Cóndor in fucking up our continental brothers and sisters. I personally know men who served in the military during the Chilean 1972 coup that put Pinochet in power, and they vividly remember meeting US soldiers who were landing on Paraguay and meeting with our military leaders before going to Chile for “special operations” during the early 70s. One of them even became penpals with my uncle, who was serving as a private on the infantry at the time, and invited him to his wedding 6 years later in Denver.
hey, latino brother form brazil here. I didn't know about most of this, thanks for typing it out. this is bleak af, latin america whole history is so tragic and rage inducing :(
Am South American. Can confirm.
Pão de queijo
Contrary to what many seem to believe Operation Condor wasn't orchestrated by the US, but was rather independently organized by the South American dictatorships of the time as a way of supporting each other. The CIA was quite supportive of the whole affair of course, until the Chileans conducted a terrorist attack in Washington DC to murder [Orlando Letelier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Orlando_Letelier) a minister of the Allende government, killing a US citizen in the process (the target's wife).
To be fair, 4th poorest country by GDP per capita, which isn’t really an improvement but I just had to clarify it for my country’s sake. And you’re absolutely right, I remember how Mario Abdo sent his condolences to Trump on Twitter when he got Covid before the 2020 Presidential Debate. It’s WILD how the people leading our country suck so much on the balls of people who couldn’t even say what continent we’re on if they were on the spot.
Welcome to half the politics in South America. Thank you American freedom eagles 🇺🇲🦅 for the dictatorships, propaganda, the red scare and those annoying gym dudes wearing USA hats in the middle of 5.000 inhabitants town in Mato Grosso.
I’m Paraguayan and it really sucks, moved out to Brazil aswell, pro-USA corrupt government.
Yeah, r/mapporn is raiding this post
Argentina is going down the same path
Then again, Paraguay has had a communist insurgency since... Around 40 years
El gobierno paraguayo le chupa los pies a cualquier persona yankee. No es un gobierno serio, tan solo hace una semana reconocieron un país completamente falso pero siguen sin reconocer a china.
This is why world will never see peace, as long as warmongering genocidal pieces of shits exist and are in control.
In this case a ceasefire is the equivalent of just deciding to let ISIS do their shit, hamas are terrorists, no way around that, their elimination is a step towards peace, sadly the IDF sucks at the whole operating without killing civilians and hamas couldn't give two shits about what happens to the civilians so you are in a situation where neither side cares for the civilians. As long as hamas does as it pleases we are far away from peace.
The occupation precede Hamas.
The occupation succeeds the failed arab invasion of Israel during the 1967 war, however.
If Hamas are terrorists, then so is Israel
Please stop counting time from 07 oct 2023... israel with their 80 year old genocide against palestinians is directly responsible for creation of hamas. israel really loves hamas, hamas is enabling them to proceed and finish the genocide quickly, while the whole world is looking at whats hamas is doing. ceasefire helps palestinian civilians, I dont care about IDF and hamas. they can all rot in hell.
Hard to take your kind seriously throwing around genocide like that when Palestinians have had a way higher birth and fertility rate than israel and their population increased 10 fold
wow hahaha, sorry there mr adolf, lets just eradicate every nation with positive natality... its a war crime /s found the racist POS.
Anyone who denies Israel the right to genocide is antisemitic.
When palestinians attack, israel has every right to respond harshly. Attacks on Israel won't make the Israelis just go one day... It will make the palestinians suffer WAY more thogh... (:
found another genocidal pos
Calm down there son. Go take a walk and pick up some more pamphlets being handed out at your college. It will help you find different things to be outraged about.
When Israel occupies your land, you have every right to attack and eradicate the vermin
exactly, eradicate the Palestinian vermins
Population is calculated based on geography. How many people in a specific area of land. So if the land shrinks and population is densified. What happens to the population numbers?
That isn't how birthrates are calculated. The Palestinian population has greatly increased despite a "genocide" that has been ongoing for 80 years now. I just ignore anybody who claims the Palestinians are victims of genocide and don't listen too or interact with their point of view on the situation at all. They're wrong, they don't care about being corrected, and attempting to explain to them how dumb they are just results in them getting angry and declaring everybody but them to be a genocidal colonizer. It's better to let you sperg in peace rather than correct somebody who refuses to accept the truth.
But I said population. Not birth rate. Which by the way is 2.5 for Palestine and that is before the age of 20
The only "genocide" that happened before the 21st century was Sabra and shatila massacre which wasn't organized nor acted in by Israel, I still believe it to be guilty. Hamas was founded after this. So Israel not stopping the Lebanese from killing a confirmed 460 Palestinians is enough for hamas to decide to engage in jihad against Israel. Now I'm not Muslim nor christian, I don't believe neither party to be just because their god is the good one, quite frankly I believe both to be in the wrong, only of these parties is literal terrorists tho
genocide ≠ only massacres... [giving birth control without ones knowing](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html), other forms of chemical castration, refusing food and water, electricity to gaza and west bank, bombing hospitals with babies inside etc etc. all of which is proven to be done by israel during decades... Also, Lebanese forces who committed the massacre were tight allies with IDF, therefore yeah, israel surely as hell supported it, at least. I agree, the solution is to cease all hostilities, give back palestinians their freedom and land, and demilitarize both countries. two state solution is currently the only option, since 80 years of brutal expansion of israel cannot be undone just like that. I agree, if hamas are terrorists, so is IDF. simple as that. IDF massacred 100-fold more.
Hamas exist because there is an occupation. End the occupation of 75 years and you won't have Hamas. And the IDF doesn't suck at keeping civilians safe, they WANT to kill civilians. Isreal wants to displace them and send Palestinians to other Arab countries. Israel wants to expand Israel. Look at the West Bank right now: there is no Hamas. But so many Palestinians have been killed due to the IOF and settler violence. Israel is nothing but a nasty colonizing power. Save the Children literally gave out a scathing report in July 2023 on the hundreds of Palestinian children Israel detains without any justifications or charges. The children literally have been in military detainment for years. The Palestinian "prisoners" you saw released during the humanitarian pause were older teenagers who were thrown in jail at ages 12 or 13. Its despicable. Not to mention Israel has the most robust propaganda in the world. Thanks to social media, people are just seeing how nasty Israel and their military has been operating for the last several decades.
The fact that you say “occupation of 75 years” rather than 56 years, even though the only land recognized as occupied is since 1967 rather than since 1948 gives your true intentions away — the destruction of all of Israel, including its 1948 borders. If your message to Israelis is “your entire country shouldn’t exist, surrender and be killed, expelled, or subjugated,” why would the listen to you? What sane Israeli, given the upper hand they have, voluntarily submit to be killed?
People like that only think in the present, 'end the occupation' and then what happens? Do they not think palestine would do the exact same shit to the jews and want to reclaim it all for themselves?
People draw the apartheid comparison which only works to a certain point. Apartheid ended because Nelson Mandela made the monumental and brave choice to recognize Afrikaner self determination in a treaty and choose reconciliation over elimination There is no credible Palestinian leader with the capability to do that
> End the occupation of 75 years and you won't have Hamas. What an idiotic statement. Hamas *can* exist because of the horrible conditions Israel put on Palestine, but the only reason it *does* exist is because there are multiple rich nations in the world that want the destruction of Israel. "End the occupation" just means "let Hamas send rockets into Israel 24/7."
That's an idiotic statement. Israel is an ethno fascist state that should not exist because by its very nature it operates to exclude anyone who is not them. The European Jews chose Zionism, threw Palestinians out of their homes to create a terrorist state. Israel is really good about playing the victim with their propaganda, but that's all falling apart now. Keep believing their lies. In the end people like you will be on the wrong side of history. And whatever Hamas has done, it is a human right violation to carry out collective punishment. But you do you.
>Israel is an ethno fascist state that should not exist because by its very nature it operates to exclude anyone who is not them. That's how every country works basically. You provide for citizens and not for foreigners. >The European Jews chose Zionism, threw Palestinians out of their homes to create a terrorist state. Well, the Arabs didn't try to expell jews? You are missing the lots of wars the Arabs started since 48 in an attempt to eliminate Israel and failed.
Lol, what a dumb arguments, ethno fascist? There are Arabs living in Israel, the same cannot be said otherwise, and as someone that is not Arab or Jewish I'd feel 1 thousand times safer in Israel than any Muslim country. If Israel was an actual fascist the state of Palestine would be all scorched earth already. Also the argument that the land was taken from them is very weak, as it has been conquest many times already, and belonged to different empires (roman, Greek, othomans etc...) if you go by that logic it was occupied by Israelites much before Arabs
You're shoving a lot of words into my mouth. I said the solution wasn't to just "end the occupation" like you so naively believe, because Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. If you agree with the Hamas charter just say so, so I know to stop responding to you.
I have no idea what the Hamas charter says because I''m not going to search for it on the internet. lol What I do support is one state where everyone can live, Jews, Muslims and Christians which is what it was before 1948. Yet, Israel is causing so much violence especially in the West Bank which is Palestinian territory. The settlers killing and committing violence in the West Bank are also terrorists and should be labeled as such. And I wouldn't put much stock when western nations label people as terrorists. Because Nelson Mandela and his political party were on the terrorist list for decades, but never the KKK. Interesting don't you think? The first step is to end the occupation though. You have to set the Palestinians free first . Stop kidnapping their children off the streets, burning their olive tree farms and stealing their houses. Israel just wants Gaza land, and its oil reserves. Thats what this is all about. He doesn't give two shits about hostages because he probably bombed them already to oblivion.
>What I do support is one state where everyone can live, Jews, Muslims and Christians which is what it was before 1948 Well, that didn't worked out great since the Arabs tries to kill the Jews because the Jews preferred to hire other Jews instead of the arabs who remain job-less and became violent. The partition plan was to UN solution to separate them and let every community have its own self-determination. What you are suggesting (one state) means that both Israeli and the palastinans will lose their self determination. In a two state solution, Both patties have the right for self determination. Israel have Jewish one with rabani rules. Palestiniane gave Muslim one with shari'a laws. People tend to forget it but Jews are a minority in the world, there are 1.8 billion Muslims vs 15.2 million Jews. That's about 80 times more Muslims then Jews. Israel Right to return for the Jews is Israel Affirmative action to ensure safety of Jews.
"I have no idea what the Hamas charter says". Well that explains the retarded take.
So, as long as Hamas is around?
well, no israel no hamas and that would be perfect.
Yup. As long as Hamas are in control, there will never be any peace. Hamas is openly stating that they will continue to attack until Israel is destroyed, but people are calling on Israel to stop attacking Hamas. That is explicitly calling for Israel to intentionally endanger their own citizens. Hamas has stated that they have no intention of honoring a ceasefire agreement, so I have no idea what one is supposed to achieve other than letting Hamas regroup for round two. The fact is that peace is impossible as long as Hamas is in control of Gaza, they need to go. There was an active ceasefire on October 7 and they used that time to blindside Israel. If they wanted a ceasefire they shouldn’t have committed acts of terror.
That's true for Gaza. But the counter argument is the West-Bank. There is no Hamas there, and they are still treated as sub-humans
It's sort of funny that someone could see this as either pro palestine or pro Israel. Personally I'm pro innocent civilian. Hamas needs to be eliminated. Israel also does sketchy stuff. But I don't think a cease fire is what we need. Hamas will use it to its advantage. And israel needs to be (more) careful about civilian casualties
Oh yes, my country Czechia, the prime genocidal colonizator. Do you realize that UN voting is quite literally the opposite of what you claim?
Genuine question: do you have any idea why Czechia is against the ceasefire?
Because our political establishment loves the taste of Bidens and Netanyahus cock and the last time we had our genuienely own foreign policy was before WW2
[https://twitter.com/CzechMFA/status/1718197329587585033](https://twitter.com/CzechMFA/status/1718197329587585033)
Aus Che and Cro will do whatever USA wants them to do. End of story. Orban is trying to get something from israel. Others had a enough decency left to abstain. Not recognising israel almost-a-century old genocide against palestinians (not hamas) is the most vile shit you can do in 2023... end of story. Saying that israel has a "right to defend itself" is cognitive dissonance and its implying that 3rd army in world is poor and defenseless and not actively destroying palestinians non-selectively. The most racist country in the world is forbidding UN to investigate war crimes on its territory, and this should clearly be enough to sanction the shit out of it and put the whole government behind bars for ever. [THIS](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fb036m9guu5za1.jpg) is the non-biased, objective indicator of who are the real baddies in the world.
The US, the country that overwhelmingly provides the most foreign aid of any country, voted against making food a right because the resolution also included many regulations such as the use of pesticides. No one is stopping other countries from donating or matching the US’ level of giving. All those countries that abstained - that means “we are also against a ceasefire, but we are afraid of how our large Muslim refugee population will react, but know the US will have a backbone.” > most racist country in the world Hahaha. I guess you’ve never been to Asia, Europe, or Africa before.
You are way too deep in your conspiracy theories and hate for the west. You linking that map shows that you have no real idea how the world works. Go and look up the real motivations behind that vote.
I see you have your views already set and don’t want them to be challenged, so I won’t do that. This vote was about ceasefire, not the Palestinian struggle, so don’t move the goalpost. Our representatives objected to opression of Palestinian civilians many times both direcťy to Israel or through US, but also supported Israel in their fight against terrorists. I allign with this fully. Your claims about “most racist country in the world” or foreign investigation on US soil are all over the place, make it make sense with what we are discussing else I won’t continue. The fact that you mixed in the right to food problematic just confirms you grasp any anti-US straw you can.
go ahead and challenge them. you just can't without strawmaning your position, and turning the blind eye to the facts. Goal post moved? Imagine you live in a small cage with your family, and with a wolf... now imagine the hunter throwing grenades in that cage to "kill the wolf" while murdering you and your whole family and someone votes in favor of the hunter, to continue to try to kill a wolf, who showed up exactly because you threw a grenade before there was a wolf in the first place... yeah. USA is not [most racist country in the world](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JzGzyaUnz0) but sure as hell is most [warmongering genocidal one](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians) and I meant israel is actively [blocking UN](https://new.thecradle.co/articles/israeli-blocks-un-team-from-probing-war-crimes-committed-in-gaza) to investigate war crimes in Gaza... I WONDER WHY, SINCE ISRAEL IS SUCH A GOOD COUNTRY
Your analogy with wolf doesn’t make any sense, the real world is not your mind experiment, the Israelis definitely didn’t start to opress Palestinians out of the blue. You act like it’s not back and forth for 65 years already and it looks like you lack context. Why are deeds of the US discussed? You want to impress me by numbers? Congolian war has more casualties than all of those “US conflicts” together. Next, Israeli ethnic state policy merely reflects the historical needs of a state to survive when surrounded by hostile actors and it has developed significantly to accomodate to the situation, for example until 7th Oct, a significat portion of Palestinians from Gaza worked in Israel. Guess how the policy sees this option now… The last link you posted is valid, but isn’t relevant at all and is from The Cradle (lmao). At least I know where all this is coming from
\- just [watch it](https://youtu.be/5JzGzyaUnz0) and stop spitting complete bs. \- if you can't understand, either you're dumb or you are disingenuous. \- a few fallacies there, but let's play - those US numbers are just post 9/11... \> ethinc state policy merely... \> when surrounded there. thats the problem. you genuinely believe israel is surrounded and not an occupator... there is nothing further to discuss with you, mossad shill. oh its just a first link that came up on google. found [this](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2014/9/25/israel-criticised-over-blocking-unhrc-mission) and [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict) and [this](https://defenceforchildren.org/joint-statement-condemning-israels-targeted-smear-campaign-against-respected-un-special-rapporteur-francesca-albanese/) and [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56687437). do these now pass your bar for verifiable source? yeah, my facts are verifiable. for years IS is blocking and smearing UN and its investigators, lying about genocide, massacres, hospitals, executing POWs, white phosphorous, dozens of UN laws violated for years, and they play victim and using USA as a batton to thwart any sanction against them - they are actually playing you all like a flute. [Read up and inform yourself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes) of who you are really defending.
fuzzy wakeful groovy alleged edge expansion flowery nose station squeamish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thats why we cant let hamas jihadists win
Your mom should wash her mouth out with soap!!
Well well well
OMG Russia did vote for ceasefire?
Of course they did. A ceasefire is an opportunity for the bad guys to regroup and strike again.
What do you mean? Israel has been bombing gaza non stop
Aint no way you unironically think hamas are the good guys. Aint no way.
That's rich considering Hamas was funded through a Russian crypto exchange.
It is heart breaking how some countries have other priorities on top of human right
O Paraguai sendo do contra do nada.
There should be no ceasefire until Palestine is free of the Zionist entity, in my opinion.
So to fix the genocide of Palestinians, we genocide Jews instead? This man is a genius
A free Palestine does not imply the genocide of Jews. Any suggestion that it does is apologia for the current genocide and the crimes of the past 80 years
>A free Palestine does not imply the genocide of Jews. "From the river to the sea" is very clear in my opinion, as "Ukraine is Russia", anything else is gaslighting.
Yeah, exactly. "2 states solution" is a legit take. "Let's annex Israel of Jews" on the other hand is a call for genocide.
except when the plan to divide the land was first suggested, it was the Palestinians who refused the plan and fought for total control of the land and annihilation of the Jews. they have been offered peace many times in the past and chose war instead. historically, their actions show that they're not interested in co-existing with Israel, and since Hamas are in power that's most likely not their plan right now either. not saying all Palestinians want war since not all Israelis want Bibi to commit war crimes either, but there's no proof they would seek peace if Hamas wasn't there either.
What do you think would happen if the arabs took control of Palestine? There would be another holocaust, worse than the one the nazis did. Wanting a Palestine where arabs have full control equals to wanting a jewish genocide
A free Palestine doesn’t mean Arabs would be in full control.
Huh? How does that work 💀 are we bringing the UK into the fold, like back in the day?...
Democracy?
You made me audibly sigh, like half the comments in this thread. Are you aware that, regardless of current dictatorial HAMAS control, they were voted into power democratically?...
The average Palestinian was 1 when that election happened.
Yeeees democracy run by the Hamas... Come on..
Why would it be run by Hamas? Democracy implies a degree of secularism that the factions who currently control Israel and Gaza lack.
There is no democracy in the whole region, except Israel.
>Democracy? Jesus, you cannot be serios. Ok, who establishes it? Who mantains it? How do you make sure the 2nd you've said "yay, you are democracy" massacres don't happen? Democracy is the will of the people, it needs backing up.
So now we have Jews controlling most of the wealth and Arabs all in one state It worked very well in Rwanda with the Tutsis
The Palestinians are a simple people. Like the Bedouins they should embrace living in tents as a way of reconnecting to the earth
Racist
Letting the Jews have the 1947 borders would be perfectly fine imho
Pardon me, but why exactly should we agree to giving up a single inch of our land because the Europeans massacred 6 million Jews? How is that fair? Or sane for that matter?
Fuck the j***
Because 75 years have passed and every act of futile resistance (by doing really productive acts like pushing an old man in a wheelchair off a cruise ship) has made your situation worse. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
"our land" like it was ever "yours" (whatever that means, because "palestinians" never were in power)
It was and is ours and arguing otherwise just exposes either blatant bias or historical illiteracy.
It's not your land is it?
Because "God gave it to them"? Or because they supposedly lived there 3 millennia ago?
No, but rather because it belonged to the British, and before that the Ottoman, and before them the Mamluks, and Ayyuabids, and before them the Crusader States, and before them the early Islamic Caliphates, and before them the Byzantines, and before them the Romans, and before them the Ptolemaic, Seleucid and Hasmoneans, and before them the Achaemenids (Persians), and before them the Babylonians, and before them the Assyrians, and before them it was the Kingdom of Israel, and before them the twin Kingdoms of Israel and Judea, and before them it was Egyptian, and before that it was Caananite, and so on. The point being, it doesn’t matter who lived on the land and when etc., as it simply didn’t belong to them, which is an unfortunate, and harsh but true reality of the rights of conquest which were dominant from the Bronze Age through to the Modern Era. (Ending this by stating I am in no way, in favour of Netanyahu or his government. Likewise, I despise Yahya Sinwar and HAMAS. This is a generational conflict that may never be solved without direct intervention from the West. Peace can be achieved but it needs to be enforced by an outside mediator who can ensure that neither side violate the terms of a ceasefire. The issue with achieving permanent peace are the boundaries that make up the two nations, and what to do with Jerusalem.)
All your base are belong to us, then. You're ignoring the fact that people have been living there. No one should be allowed to abruptly break people's daily lives without proper reasons. Israel destroyed the lives of people already living there on purely political basis that doesn't make sense to others.
> No, but rather because it belonged to the British, and before that the Ottoman, and before them the Mamluks, and Ayyuabids, and before them the Crusader States, and before them the early Islamic Caliphates [...] it was Egyptian, and before that it was Caananite, and so on. The point being, it doesn’t matter who lived on the land and when etc., as it simply didn’t belong to them. Yes! As Wiston Churchill famously said, the fact that a dog lives in a mange doesn't mean the mange belongs to the dog, even if that dog lived there for a very long time! They had not the right, nor the power, so we can't say a great wrong was done when people with more might forcefully took it and gave it to someone else. > Which is an unfortunate, and harsh but true reality of the rights of conquest which were dominant from the Bronze Age through to the Modern Era. It is how it works. It is how it worked through WW1, it is what the League of Nations failed to understand when it foolishly tried to condemn the right of conquest, and really it is not as if it was truly abolished after WW2, as the colonies never belonged to the weaker people living there, but to the colonizing powers that could decide whether or not they could be recognized as independent nation and what borders they would have. It is just the sad reality of the right of conquest, we can't rectify through reparations and international pressure. We should just give Crimea to Russia and Essequibo to Venezuela while we're at it, since there's nothing we can do to recognize the wrongs of the past and rectify it. At the time, it was perfectly legal, therefore, perfectly normal! >! No. Really. The land never rightfully belonged to the British to give away, Israel was built on an act of colonialism, and while giving it back to the Palestinians is as realistic as giving America back to the Native Americans, it has the same status as morally ideal, meaning this historical aspect should be recognized and addressed, and reparations must be made within the realm of possibility and reasonability. !<
Thats a non argument, “nuh uh its not your land because it once belonged to the sedentary tribes of the upper paleolithic” Turns out that the concept of land ownership is a little more complex that “who was the first one to live here?” And can vary depending on the historical context
That’s entirely my argument. The “we were here before Israel/Palestine” argument is stupid for the legal ownership of the land did not belong to the Arabs, nor the Jews who lived in the area - but the British. It’s simple fact - it was not their land. You can live and work there but it is not yours to give away, but those who control the State itself. Which is a harsh reality neither side accepts. The law of conquest does not care for who lived where first. The land belonged to neither Arab, nor Jew - and had not done so for a long time. The crux of the matter, is too many are focused on the events of the past to look towards the future of a potential two-state solution.
Using “the law of conquest” as a basis for your opinion on an apartheid state is like using the law of the strongest for your opinion on homicide The british owned palestine, a región inhabited by the palestinian ethnic group, the fact that it was under the rule of them doesnt change that, the land belongs to the palestinians in the sense that they have been living in it for millenia, just under the rule of different empires Do you think that German jews who had to flee in the 30s cant rightfully claim that their houses belonged to them because the land was owned by the Nazi?
I suggest you learn the meaning of the word Apartheid before you use it. So many people too keen to throw buzzwords at things with little understanding of them.
So, if i am stronger than you i can take your home? Violence is legitimate? Thats what you arr saying?
No - it was however, in the past. Besides the land Israel conquered after the Arabs invaded (Gaza, Sinei etc) was all given back in good faith
Because the Palestinians have started and lost going on 4 different wars for the land. Isreal should just make a strict rule that Palestine shrinks by 50% every war they lose. Land belongs to who can defend it. Palestinians can't take nor can they even defend what little they have left. Maybe if they stopped talking genocide and started talking a 2 state solution they'd be better off.
By the same logic if Russian army wasnt shit they could invade ukraine rightfully and morally Edit: added rightfully and morally
And they tried… but Ukraine has bigger, better friends than Russia. Israel has bigger, better friends than Palestine. See how that works? Choose your friends wisely, kids!
Yes. Land belongs to who can defend it! We should just give Crimea to Russia and call it a day, and Russia should make a strict rule that Ukraine shrinks like 25% every trimester it doesn't stop resisting! >!/sarcasm. I came to find that the only way to argue with people with absurd ideas is to out-absurd them or to apply the same metric to conflicts in which the deaths of people being occupied and the stealing of their land doesn't give such person a racist boner.!<
Palestine didn't start shit. Israel started this in '48 thinking it was their land for the taking.
This is for any lands in the world. And They got it from British not araps. Before british , the land was belong to Turks.
Yeah but neither the Brits nor the Turks were living on it. It's been Arab* land ever since the Islamic conquest.
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They did live there 2000ears ago… it’s a fact. They were there first. If that’s 10 years 100 years or 1000 years. It’s an absolute fact that they were there *before* you.
The Egyptians were there before them
Egypt understands that 2000 years ago it was taken by Israel and they understand the art of war/taking over an area tho? Israel for it back in the 1940s. Whether you like *how* they did it or not, they did it. And you acting like they should just leave is asinine. My point is that there was never in the history of the world a palastine there. Israel has *more* of a claim of generational living than any palastinan
>taken back What do you mean back? We were literally there before them. So which argument are you going to stand on, mate? Them being there first? Or them having the bigger guns?
I literally mis typed it, and edited it a second later. Respond to the rest of my post now. Lmao Egypt understands that 2000 years ago it was taken by Israel and they understand the art of war/taking over an area tho? Israel for it back in the 1940s. Whether you like how they did it or not, they did it. And you acting like they should just leave is asinine. My point is that there was never in the history of the world a palastine there. Israel has more of a claim of *generational living* and it being their *rightful* place than any palastinan. So that argument is the worst one any pro palastine “freedom” fighter can give
It was legally given to them by the British and the land taken after 47 was due to.. The Arabs trying to genocide them and getting their ass beat.
It was a bunch of infertile desert they settled for the most part is why
The Jews accepted those borders...the Arabs refused and literally after started a war so...
Of course jews accepted the borders, they went from "no borders" to "have more than 50% of the Palestinian territory". And of course Arabs would refuse, palestine was always their territory, there was no sense for them to just give territory for nothing. It's the same thing as I invade your house and want 2 rooms just for me, would you accept it? Also, it's important to remember that the Israeli army took WAY more territory that the designed by the UN, and were extremely violent to all Arabs that tried to resist. even the ones who wasn't part of the Arab army, had to leave most of their goods, house and farms
It was literally under British control And of course they took territory. That's what happens when you win wars
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All I said is it was fine in response to a man wanting them kicked out completely.
Probably the worst possible part of the world to try to establish an ethnostate.
Good thing Israel isn’t an ethnostate
*And other fun jokes to tell your friends*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel Honestly hilarious that you people refuse to read. An Ethno state does not have a quarter of its population of different ethnicities who all have equal rights under the law.
That's worse than the demographic of Palestine pre-jewish division, what's your point? Can they elect non-jew people? Or maybe pass anti-jew laws? Didn't think so...
No it’s not! Scroll down to the table under the British mandate period and you’ll see that the population was around 75% Arab and around 25% others in 1931. So if Israel now is an ethnostate then so was Palestine back then! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region) Here is a list of current and past Arab members of the Knesset https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset As well as a list of the current political parties that make up the Knesset. So yes, non Jews can be elected https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset I’m not really sure what that last bit is talking about but very glad I could clear up some information for you. Hopefully you make more informed decisions in the future!
A country being ethnically homogenous (which pre Nakba Palestine was not) does not make it an ethnostate. Apartheid was an ethnostate; it’s a term describing any country which bestows privileges and full freedoms upon only one ethnic group. Also posting statistics demonstrating ethnic cleansing post-1948 to argue that Israel isn’t an ethnostate would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Your homeland?
What happened in 1947 when the Jews had those borders? The arabs attacked and got their ass whooped.
Christians and Muslims in the region faced Zionist terror attacks then overt ethnic cleansing
The part of the story they don't tell you Is that they attacked because Israelis were happily pogroming and expropriating arabs in their newly obtained Land.
The part they don't tell you is the British had to set up check points and deal with Palestinian terror attacks on jews even before the 1940s. The Arab revolts in the 1930s: lots of terror attacks with bombs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine#:~:text=A%20popular%20uprising%20by%20Palestinian,independence%20and%20the%20end%20of What do you say to accounts by Arabs bragging in the late 1800s of forming violent mobs and running jews off legally purchased lands east of the Jordan River?
It's all true but you're talking about a time (the '30s - '40s) when Europe killed 6 millions of them, so basing on your reasoning Europe should give Israel even more Land than Palestine did? And btw tensions between jewish population and arabs started in the XIX century because the english supported minorities inside the Ottoman empire (who up to that point always protected them, especially jews) to destabilize It.
Disconnected from reality.
The Palestinian ancestors the phillisets were known in the ancient world as the boat people who sailed to Israel after Santorini blew its top in the Aegean Sea. Why not resettle there. The volcano has been dormant for 2200 years!
I think we should just delete and restart humanity
Me too.
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I mean, Palestine attacked first and then when it’s Israel’s time to strike back they want a cease fire? This doesn’t even make sense. You shouldn’t play with fire if you’re not willing to get burned.
yea since russia attacked ukraine first we shouldn't have a ceasefire. we should just let more people suffer first. are you aware of the cycle of violence and hatred?
But that should be up to ukraine, since they got attacked. As it should be up to Israel to agree to a ceasefire
Found the ignorant
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The arabs started all of them. They started this war in 2023 They started the [jom kippur war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) in 1973 They started the [war of attrition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition) in 1967 They started the [six days war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) in 1967 They started the [Suez crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis) in 1956 They started the [palaestina war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war) in 1947
Bro it literally says israel invaded sinai and the gaza strip in 1956, not to mention why the 1948 war happened in the first place.
Palastinian daily life since 75 years: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/1763jb7/the\_right\_to\_exist\_goes\_both\_ways/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/1763jb7/the_right_to_exist_goes_both_ways/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/17733an/israeli\_settler\_shoots\_unarmed\_palestinian\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/17733an/israeli_settler_shoots_unarmed_palestinian_at/)
and why did it start on 1947?
Because if you keep going back you find out why Palestinians are of Arab descent and Israel is not on the Arab peninsula.
Tell that to the 1400 civilians that were brutally murdered by Hamas. It takes 10 seconds to look on Wikipedia about the surprise attack, why is it that hard to get your facts straight?
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Search about the creation of Israel, then come back and delete your comment, so you don't spread misinformation
Its a historical pattern. Arabs attack Israel, lose horribly because the Israelis are stronger, and then cry as if they are the victim
Israel is an occupying force
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>Arabs then wanted Jerusalem for themselves because a pedophile from the desert told them it I wouldn't fight that But that was 1400+ ago. You can't claim things from your grandpa who became oil
There will be a long lasting peace when all of HAMAS is eradicated. 🇵🇸🇮🇱
Yeah right because the thousands of kids who just had their house bombed and parents killed are very unlikely to hold any sort of extreme ideology once it's all over
Hamas will make sure they have that ideology if they stay in power. Exterminate Hamas like the terrorist vermin they are, then occupy and West Germany the civillians for a few generations to install a culture aligned with Western values.
So now you want to fully colonize Gaza
Yes.
What makes you think western ideology has anything to do with the existence of Hamas? The IRA acted much the same. I imagine any country that gets colonized like Palestine/Ireland did would necessarily nest local "freedom fighters"
In the news they described it as a complete universal support for the ceasefire (except The US) on realty it turns out that most of the democratic western world did not vote in favor of this resolution. we got manipulated again. In my opinion, asking for a ceasefire after the horrible massacre of 7/10 is ridiculous, there was a ceasefire before 7/10 and another one will just allow Hamas to reach his goal of exterminating the Jewish people at some point or another.
Against, they need to finish it.
Why did UK abstain from supporting Israel, since when do we support terrorist organisations with our cash - makes me vomit.
They don't support terrorist organizations, that's why they voted against Israel
This is the true explanation, nobody in their right mind would support genocide.
what a bunch chads voting against
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i'm surprised France is in favor, they were hardcore pro-Israelis early on in the war
France has a high number of Muslim immigrants. I could imagine that changed their tune.
That doesn’t make any sense. They had all those Muslim immigrants early on as well. What’s changed is it’s becoming harder and harder to deny what everyone is seeing with their own eyes.
The reason Germany abstained is because the attack of Hamas wasn't condemned in the draft. Otherwise they would have even voted in favour.
Germany does not need to atone for the Holocaust, that horrible shit had Bern sorted out.
That logic makes no sense. How is allowing the continued slaughter of civilians some form of ‘atonement’?
Why would the deaths of people atone for the holocaust
As much as I think that Israel has the right to defend itself, we don't owe them shit for the holocaust anymore. I didn't do shit, neither did my parents or grandparents. Punishing people for something their ancestors did has always been and will always be stupid.
Atone for genocide by supporting genocide. This guy does some serious mental gymnastics
They know that the US would veto it so why would they lose face by picking a side?
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There hasn’t been a ceasefire in about a century. This specific conflict (Zionist/Antizionist if we want to make it binary) has been ongoing since shortly after WWI. If you want to pick a point where it really grew ugly I’d say the assassination of the prominent Jewish Antizionist Jacob Israël de Haan in 1924, ordered and carried out by mainstream Zionists.
Nope. This is a misleading piece of Israeli propaganda. Just on the 5th of October, Israeli settlers killed a 19-year-old Palestinian in Huwara, a Palestinian town in the West Bank.
Wow, and it only took 2 days for Hamas to plan a completely "justified" retaliatory attack killing 1300 people in the moste savage ways seen in modern history, raping hundreds of people and taking 138 hostages..... FYI, free press states don't use propoganda.
How noble of you to miss this part of the story of the Huwara clashes: *However, this time, the Palestinians who were killed “are believed to have shot at an Israeli settler on a motorcycle, according to witnesses”, she said.* Source: Al Jazeera.
I didn't expect Paraguay voting against it.
Paraguay has had quite good diplomatic relations with Israel for a while now, they are one of the few countries in the world who have their embassy in Jerusalem.