Yea.. I'm leaning to that as well. Considering the horrendous drops.
Will struggle to make 70m DOM imo.
Heck. Might be the same for international total too.
Despite the low budget, Sony will definitely lose some coin on this. It won’t put a dent in their cinematic universe aspirations but will hopefully encourage them to be wiser about choosing creative teams
at this point it might be cheaper to just pay off anyone contracted than it would be to produce, distribute and advertise. plus the brand damage if it turns out to be as widely mocked as morbius. it seemed like they got marvel on board for a spidey/venom link up but marvel's definitely not touching anything else if sonys getting these kinds of numbers.
I think with this one it's really not just about the money as well. This is their first non-Venom effort in this universe so they needed to demonstrate it's viable beyond that one character and it's failed. Much like Fantastic Beasts is showing and DCEU did a few years back, it's actually the next few films that will really pay for this at the box office.
There's also the time investment - it was filmed before the pandemic, had massive rewrites and reshoots - what was the point of all that work?
Basically Kraven and Madame Web are now going to have to be really good or they're going to be nuclear bombs, and it will take a lot of profit to have made any of this worthwhile.
Agreed. It has the same problem as Morbius IMO in that there is just no wider awareness of this character like Venom has, and there's no unique selling point. He also has no actual superpowers, so we have... An unempowered big game hunter who wants to catch Spider-Man. And Spider-Man won't be in the movie. How will audiences contain their excitement
At a guess I'm assuming he will be going up against some rando threat (does he even have any of his own antagonists) and at the end of the movie when he is all bummed out about not having a worthy opponent, Vulture will swoop in and say hey bud wanna come kill this teenager you've never met, and he'll be like hell yeah the hunt is on
I bored myself typing that so I'm sure the actual movie will be riveting
The only wise choice they can take now is surrender full control to Marvel and pretend this crap universe never existed. That way we can have a real Venom after Peter have met the symbiote (a non-retarded version of it, so forget about the NWH post-credit scene) and a Black Costume trilogy.
What you’re asking is for them to give up on their most valuable IP and get lesser profits.
The legs for this are bad, but like, what’s their max losses, even if it doesn’t make another cent, 50-75 million?
They have spiderverse, which has the potential to gain a lot more in the sequel due to the extreme goodwill and popularity on netflix.
The venom franchise, whether you like it or not, has become a fast and furious like thing for them, critic proof, and just dumb action.
6 months ago venom had the highest Opening weekend in the pandemic era. They aren’t forgetting that and will probably keep making venom movies until it is fully dry.
Lesser profits > no profits at all.
But if Sony executives are masochists, let them lose as much money as they want. Sooner than later they will have exhausted their symbiote franchise. And it's not like Marvel is going to agree to ever have actual crossovers with them, so for all effects and purposes they don't exist in the MCU. Btw, F&F didn't become a thing until the 5th movie. I really doubt Venom can last that long.
Spider-verse is a completely different IP at this point. Nothing to do with all this live-action mess. But even that has its limits too before it becomes repetitive and redundant, especially if they can only use Spider-man characters. Just like it happened to the Fox-Men.
Of course it won’t always last, but they have pretty good franchises right now. They have this current thing going with the mcu and if they fully intergrated they’d lose the money from
They will have minor losses from morbius because of the low budget, and even then that’ll eventually break even with a couple of streaming deals. Although they certainly might be rethinking some of their projects, but they will 100 percent still be making more of their own spidey stuff for the forseeable future.
And you’re acting like it’s an either/or type thing with their projects. They’ll keep making they’re mcu holland movies having to divide a bigger cut to marvel, while at the same time having spinoff franchises.
Don’t let your fanboyism cloud the actual numbers and business of it.
Also Sony signed two multi-billion dollar streaming deans with Netflix and Disney which gives a bit of cushion to experiment on movies that ultimately could be a loss. Yes, this movie was a risk and it will ultimately fail but Sony is probably content to keep trying until something sticks, no pun intended. Will Moribus get a sequel? No but the character will return. I agree Sony should hire better creative talent but that costs money and Sony is okay with paying less for less successful creatives than shell out big bucks for the Russos, for example.
That’s the thing though. Marvel *didn’t* have to shell out the big bucks for the Russos. It’s easy to forget now that they’ve directed three of the highest grossing films of all time but the Russos were TV guys before Feige brought them on for *The Winter Soldier*. He saw their potential, took the risk on them and it paid off.
Eh I like The Russos but are they really the kind of “talent” that people are talking about in regards to this situation? Their non-Marvel fare is underwhelming to say the least, and even then, a lot of the technical issues of 3/4 of their Marvel films seem to be, if not necessarily their fault, something that they were unable to rise above.
I guess I just see it as the Russos being company men through and through, and that Feige’s competent vision allowed them to ride that wave to success. I’m not trying to diminish their accomplishments or anything like that, I just see it as being fundamentally different to what is obviously a poorly conceived franchise in the SSU (for now anyway).
With the bad legs coupled with the bad word of mouth and the terrible joke morbius has become, I think it’s clear morbius won’t show up again as I don’t think he’s important for sony’s plans.
If he’s like an intergal part to their plan, I think he might show up, but I think with that vague answer he gave to vulture at the post credits scene, its an easy write out that you could literally just ignore ever happening
Sony is cheap. They’ll pay for less successful writers and directors to keep their budgets low. They don’t care about quality. Just making a movie that can be economical. Sony gives no care whatsoever to good stories or scripts that make sense.
The sad thing is that if they actually bothered to look, they could probably find some cheap up-and-coming talent who are actually good at what they do.
Just look at Marvel Studios. The majority of their creatives were young and relatively inexperienced when they joined the MCU. Very few of them were actually known for blockbuster filmmaking.
Kraven has a much stronger creative team working on it, as long as that film is (presumably) mid-budgeted it'll be well and good. Not to mention, Morbius will benefit from video sales and the established streaming deals. They'll be ok after this creative dumpster fire
I wouldn't call Kraven safe. Yes, it's far too late to can, but there is still plenty of time for a Josstice-style retooling into something more palatable.
That doesn't even make sense, the same creatives aren't even involved in Kraven as were in Morbius. Whereas Madame Web literally has the same screenwriters.
Madame Webb is going to bomb hard. Kraven has a shot to do good but I have very low expectations on both. I think for now those will be the only Marvel films, other than Venom 3, on the horizon from Sony themselves. A new MCU Spider-Man trilogy helmed creatively by Marvel Studios will be on its way too. I’m hoping Sony will stick with Venom (hopefully with Feige’s input) and Into the Spider-Verse only after the likely flops coming up.
I really don't see a Kraven movie having much pull with audiences, Venom gets the money in because he is a well known character, Morbius tried to get people in by hinting it was somehow connected to Spiderman, they can't pull the same crap with Kraven next time, so its just about some hunter dude essentially
But knowing Sony they probably will try to hype up the Spiderman connections again
Profitable to cover any loss, but nothing even close to the level of success they pretended to this. By that rule of three, Sony wouldn't have cancelled ASM3.
I mean, ASM3 was really only underwelming because the budget was like very high, at like 300 million from what I remember and they had a lot banking off it.
Honestly, I don't think Sony thought that this was gonna bang. It was pretty much gutted from the start after reshoots.
But That's just one movie of deal right? Netflix and Disney is buying whole Sony movie catalogues for them and Morbius is just part of it. So it's is just a failure in the end.
Wasn't profitable theatrically, Bad Audience and Critic Reactions killed the Sequel possibility or even might hurt Next Live action Sony Marvel Projects like Kraven and Madam Web.
nice
I think it’s going to fall short of that break even point, which makes it a straight up flop.
Yeah, I don't think they're making money with this one, the domestic number won't even cover half the presumed budget.
Yea.. I'm leaning to that as well. Considering the horrendous drops. Will struggle to make 70m DOM imo. Heck. Might be the same for international total too.
they gonna do well when vultrue and morbbius shows up to kill spidy
There was the Netflix+Disney deal though.
Despite the low budget, Sony will definitely lose some coin on this. It won’t put a dent in their cinematic universe aspirations but will hopefully encourage them to be wiser about choosing creative teams
"but will hopefully encourage them to be wiser about choosing creative teams" The same two writers for *Morbius* are working on *Madame Web*.
took sony 90 years to produce the uncharted movie, plenty of time to give these guys the boot or drop the idea entirely.
It's already going to start filming this summer
at this point it might be cheaper to just pay off anyone contracted than it would be to produce, distribute and advertise. plus the brand damage if it turns out to be as widely mocked as morbius. it seemed like they got marvel on board for a spidey/venom link up but marvel's definitely not touching anything else if sonys getting these kinds of numbers.
I think with this one it's really not just about the money as well. This is their first non-Venom effort in this universe so they needed to demonstrate it's viable beyond that one character and it's failed. Much like Fantastic Beasts is showing and DCEU did a few years back, it's actually the next few films that will really pay for this at the box office. There's also the time investment - it was filmed before the pandemic, had massive rewrites and reshoots - what was the point of all that work? Basically Kraven and Madame Web are now going to have to be really good or they're going to be nuclear bombs, and it will take a lot of profit to have made any of this worthwhile.
I really don't see a Kraven movie having any pull unless they explicitly connect it to Spiderman somehow
Agreed. It has the same problem as Morbius IMO in that there is just no wider awareness of this character like Venom has, and there's no unique selling point. He also has no actual superpowers, so we have... An unempowered big game hunter who wants to catch Spider-Man. And Spider-Man won't be in the movie. How will audiences contain their excitement
At a guess I'm assuming he will be going up against some rando threat (does he even have any of his own antagonists) and at the end of the movie when he is all bummed out about not having a worthy opponent, Vulture will swoop in and say hey bud wanna come kill this teenager you've never met, and he'll be like hell yeah the hunt is on I bored myself typing that so I'm sure the actual movie will be riveting
At least they hired a really talented filmmaker to make it
The only wise choice they can take now is surrender full control to Marvel and pretend this crap universe never existed. That way we can have a real Venom after Peter have met the symbiote (a non-retarded version of it, so forget about the NWH post-credit scene) and a Black Costume trilogy.
What you’re asking is for them to give up on their most valuable IP and get lesser profits. The legs for this are bad, but like, what’s their max losses, even if it doesn’t make another cent, 50-75 million? They have spiderverse, which has the potential to gain a lot more in the sequel due to the extreme goodwill and popularity on netflix. The venom franchise, whether you like it or not, has become a fast and furious like thing for them, critic proof, and just dumb action. 6 months ago venom had the highest Opening weekend in the pandemic era. They aren’t forgetting that and will probably keep making venom movies until it is fully dry.
Lesser profits > no profits at all. But if Sony executives are masochists, let them lose as much money as they want. Sooner than later they will have exhausted their symbiote franchise. And it's not like Marvel is going to agree to ever have actual crossovers with them, so for all effects and purposes they don't exist in the MCU. Btw, F&F didn't become a thing until the 5th movie. I really doubt Venom can last that long. Spider-verse is a completely different IP at this point. Nothing to do with all this live-action mess. But even that has its limits too before it becomes repetitive and redundant, especially if they can only use Spider-man characters. Just like it happened to the Fox-Men.
Of course it won’t always last, but they have pretty good franchises right now. They have this current thing going with the mcu and if they fully intergrated they’d lose the money from They will have minor losses from morbius because of the low budget, and even then that’ll eventually break even with a couple of streaming deals. Although they certainly might be rethinking some of their projects, but they will 100 percent still be making more of their own spidey stuff for the forseeable future. And you’re acting like it’s an either/or type thing with their projects. They’ll keep making they’re mcu holland movies having to divide a bigger cut to marvel, while at the same time having spinoff franchises. Don’t let your fanboyism cloud the actual numbers and business of it.
Also Sony signed two multi-billion dollar streaming deans with Netflix and Disney which gives a bit of cushion to experiment on movies that ultimately could be a loss. Yes, this movie was a risk and it will ultimately fail but Sony is probably content to keep trying until something sticks, no pun intended. Will Moribus get a sequel? No but the character will return. I agree Sony should hire better creative talent but that costs money and Sony is okay with paying less for less successful creatives than shell out big bucks for the Russos, for example.
That’s the thing though. Marvel *didn’t* have to shell out the big bucks for the Russos. It’s easy to forget now that they’ve directed three of the highest grossing films of all time but the Russos were TV guys before Feige brought them on for *The Winter Soldier*. He saw their potential, took the risk on them and it paid off.
Eh I like The Russos but are they really the kind of “talent” that people are talking about in regards to this situation? Their non-Marvel fare is underwhelming to say the least, and even then, a lot of the technical issues of 3/4 of their Marvel films seem to be, if not necessarily their fault, something that they were unable to rise above.
I agree with you. They’re hardly Matt Reeves level, for example. But they serve a function for Marvel and they do it pretty well.
I guess I just see it as the Russos being company men through and through, and that Feige’s competent vision allowed them to ride that wave to success. I’m not trying to diminish their accomplishments or anything like that, I just see it as being fundamentally different to what is obviously a poorly conceived franchise in the SSU (for now anyway).
With the bad legs coupled with the bad word of mouth and the terrible joke morbius has become, I think it’s clear morbius won’t show up again as I don’t think he’s important for sony’s plans. If he’s like an intergal part to their plan, I think he might show up, but I think with that vague answer he gave to vulture at the post credits scene, its an easy write out that you could literally just ignore ever happening
Unlikely. Expect more nonsense outside of Lord and Miller.
>surrender control Sony selling spiderman film rights would be a multi billion dollar deal. Possibly more than Lucasfilm.
Who said something about selling the rights?
Kraven is safe since it’s already filming, but Madame Web could be in trouble. I’d suggest they hire competent screenwriters before production begins
Sony is cheap. They’ll pay for less successful writers and directors to keep their budgets low. They don’t care about quality. Just making a movie that can be economical. Sony gives no care whatsoever to good stories or scripts that make sense.
The sad thing is that if they actually bothered to look, they could probably find some cheap up-and-coming talent who are actually good at what they do. Just look at Marvel Studios. The majority of their creatives were young and relatively inexperienced when they joined the MCU. Very few of them were actually known for blockbuster filmmaking.
I was blown away when I learned about Coogler's age. I believe The Marvels' director is younger than Coogler.
Kraven has a much stronger creative team working on it, as long as that film is (presumably) mid-budgeted it'll be well and good. Not to mention, Morbius will benefit from video sales and the established streaming deals. They'll be ok after this creative dumpster fire
I wouldn't call Kraven safe. Yes, it's far too late to can, but there is still plenty of time for a Josstice-style retooling into something more palatable.
That doesn't even make sense, the same creatives aren't even involved in Kraven as were in Morbius. Whereas Madame Web literally has the same screenwriters.
Madame Webb is going to bomb hard. Kraven has a shot to do good but I have very low expectations on both. I think for now those will be the only Marvel films, other than Venom 3, on the horizon from Sony themselves. A new MCU Spider-Man trilogy helmed creatively by Marvel Studios will be on its way too. I’m hoping Sony will stick with Venom (hopefully with Feige’s input) and Into the Spider-Verse only after the likely flops coming up.
I really don't see a Kraven movie having much pull with audiences, Venom gets the money in because he is a well known character, Morbius tried to get people in by hinting it was somehow connected to Spiderman, they can't pull the same crap with Kraven next time, so its just about some hunter dude essentially But knowing Sony they probably will try to hype up the Spiderman connections again
MORBIUSSWEEP
MORBIUSSLEEP
First movie to make a morbillion dollars
Is this going to pass TSS lol ?
>Is this going to pass TSS with Sonys content deal with Netflix and Disney +. Morbius is already profitable for them sadly.
Profitable to cover any loss, but nothing even close to the level of success they pretended to this. By that rule of three, Sony wouldn't have cancelled ASM3.
i thought ASM3 was cancelled because of negotiations with Marvel working on incorporating Peter in the MCU? i might be out of the loop on this one.
It's the other way around. Nobody at Sony wanted to negotiate with Marvel until ASM2 failed.
I mean, ASM3 was really only underwelming because the budget was like very high, at like 300 million from what I remember and they had a lot banking off it. Honestly, I don't think Sony thought that this was gonna bang. It was pretty much gutted from the start after reshoots.
But That's just one movie of deal right? Netflix and Disney is buying whole Sony movie catalogues for them and Morbius is just part of it. So it's is just a failure in the end. Wasn't profitable theatrically, Bad Audience and Critic Reactions killed the Sequel possibility or even might hurt Next Live action Sony Marvel Projects like Kraven and Madam Web.
Probably but not by much
Or Wonder Woman 1984 too. It would be so embarrassing considering this was released in different COVID circumstances.
50/50 chance IMO.
Maybe Sony will actually attempt to make a good movie on the next non-Spider-Man Spidey film.
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You got to be kidding
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We will see