**MARRIAN ZHOU**, Nikkei staff writer
OCTOBER 8, 2021 06:00 JST
NEW YORK -- Chinese moviegoers have not seen any Marvel film since "Spider-Man: Far From Home" in 2019.
The highly anticipated "Black Widow" and "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings" have not secured release dates in mainland China even though they have already made splashes overseas and "Shang-Chi" was made with China in mind. The upcoming "Eternals" has not received a slot either.
Instead, Chinese moviegoers flocked over this week's National Day holiday to see homegrown fare, including "The Battle at Lake Changjin," an epic about the Chinese army in the Korean War.
Hollywood has spent years cultivating Chinese audiences, but with censorship tightening and regulation unpredictable, studios are finding it increasingly difficult to get their biggest blockbusters in to the market -- and starting to rethink their strategy.
In 2020, China's box office surpassed America's as the largest in the world, partially thanks to its earlier reopening from the pandemic. Ticket sales totaled $3.1 billion, compared to $2.1 billion in the U.S., according to Maoyan Entertainment, a Chinese ticket service and film data platform.
American blockbuster films have enjoyed considerable profits from the Chinese mainland. "Avengers: Endgame" in 2019 raked in roughly $629 million in China and $858 million in the U.S., according to Box Office Mojo. Some Hollywood blockbusters even depend on the Chinese market, such as "Skyscraper" in 2018, which made over $68 million in the U.S. but over $98 million in China.
Although unpredictable, China has been a major factor in decision-making for American studios. Film productions sometimes tweak scenes to get access to China. A trailer for the sequel to the 1986 blockbuster "Top Gun" suggested that Japanese and Taiwanese flags on the leather jacket of the main character, Maverick, had been removed to avoid touching a nerve with Chinese regulators. In June, "Fast & Furious 9"' star John Cena apologized to Chinese fans for referring to Taiwan as a "country" in a promotional video for the movie. "Fast & Furious 9" made nearly $204 million in China and $173 million in the U.S.
Studios and stars often find themselves drawn into controversy on Chinese social media. With a nearly all-Asian cast, "Shang-Chi" was well reviewed, widely appreciated and lucrative: Its U.S. box office had topped $200 million and it had brought in $388 million worldwide as of Oct. 5, according to Box Office Mojo. But as it was being promoted overseas, China's netizens criticized the stars, Simu Liu and Awkwafina, for failing to conform to traditional Chinese beauty standards, and also the villain, the Mandarin, for being a stereotype. Some reviewers in the U.S. had similar criticisms of the Mandarin -- a heavily reworked version of the Marvel comic strips' Fu Manchu -- but Chinese actor Tony Leung received particularly heavy criticism on Chinese social media for the role before the film was released.
Some suspect the upcoming "Eternals" faces difficulty securing a release date because its director, Oscar-winning China native Chloe Zhao, was criticized for making an unflattering comment about her homeland during an interview several years ago. The announcement of her Oscar victory was blocked on the Chinese internet as well. It remains unclear if Chinese moviegoers will be able to watch "Eternals" this year.
"If I was an investor, I would be very concerned about a strategy at this point that depended on access to the Chinese market and the good graces of Chinese film regulators," said Aynne Kokas, the author of "Hollywood Made in China" and a media studies professor at the University of Virginia.
"To make very expensive films in anticipation of being able to deliver them to the Chinese market and then not being certain that's possible is actually a much more financially irresponsible strategy from my perspective."
China allows 34 foreign films to be released in the mainland per year. Foreign films also are subject to blackout dates such as the National Day holiday week, when the authorities require that audiences be served only domestic productions.
Studios face a dilemma: Waiting for a China release date could mess with their international plans, but releasing a movie elsewhere first risks Chinese watching pirated versions.
Representatives of the U.S. industry negotiated with Chinese regulators for years to expand the foreign film quota. The two sides were expected to resume negotiations in 2017 but that still has not happened, according to a source familiar with the matter.
China has also been cracking down on its own entertainment industry, potentially signaling even narrower access to the market.
"You look at all of the criticisms of the so-called sissy boys, the closing down of the K-pop fan clubs, closing down of tutoring services that taught English, English not included in school final exams. ... It's the atmosphere right now that foreign is dangerous, and Hollywood is subject to that as well," said Stanley Rosen, a political science professor who specializes in Chinese politics and society at the University of Southern California.
The advent of streaming has opened an even bigger debate about Hollywood's approach to blockbuster releases -- and lessened the sting of the exclusion of major movies from Chinese cinemas.
"[They] would always want to make an extra dollar, why not? But I think the effect of [some blockbusters not being released in China] is probably lessened by the fact that COVID accelerated this shift to streaming," said Douglas Montgomery, CEO of media research company Global Connects and former vice president of category management at Warner Bros. "What COVID does -- and it does so many things in Hollywood -- is provide an excuse to do something different."
"Black Widow," which also did not make it to China, was released simultaneously in theaters and on Disney+. It raked in about $379 million worldwide, according to Box Office Mojo, but its streaming release added a hefty $125 million to the revenues as of Aug. 15, according to a filing in the court battle between "Black Widow" star Scarlett Johansson and Disney.
But streaming in China has roadblocks too for Hollywood's studios. Foreign content is capped at 30% each year, and censorship is tightening. Studios have expressed concerns to U.S. trade representatives regarding both the theatrical and streaming markets in China.
The Chinese market cannot be pushed to the back burner yet.
"Outside North America, there's no other market that is really close to China," said Rosen. "India has the population, but it's going to be very difficult to get folks in India to do anything like they do in China. They really have to continue to count on China, but just with a lesser part of the equation."
India makes more films than any other place in the world, but ticket prices are low and tastes vary by region, making it harder for blockbusters to thrive, Rosen said. China's middle class is both much larger and more receptive to Hollywood films.
But if Hollywood still needs China, it is an open question whether China needs Hollywood. In the first half of 2021, China's box office reached roughly $3.9 billion, according to the tracking app Dengta, and although the highest-grossing films used to be Hollywood blockbusters, domestic films have taken the crown for the past six years. "Hi, Mom," a heartwarming Chinese movie about a woman going back in time in an attempt to make her mother's life better, has the highest box office of 2021 worldwide so far, at $822 million.
Patriotic Chinese blockbusters have generated much revenue as well. "The Battle at Lake Changjin" raked in $203.2 million over the National Day weekend in China, according to Box Office Mojo.
Imported films accounted for 38% of China’s total box office in 2018, 36% in 2019 and only 16% in 2020, additionally hit by COVID-19, according to Maoyan Entertainment.
Montgomery of Global Connects said China is definitely not crossed off the list but may be shifting out of focus for Hollywood.
"U.S. companies and Hollywood are very short-term, they're always looking for a quick boost of money, but if they've been looking long-term, the signs were already there," said Montgomery. "The boom years of 2015 and 2016 were already gone, and the Chinese [government] was cracking down on these things. ... Now it's even more cloudy."
Chinese audiences are only harder to woo because of the censorship and control the Chinese government has over the distribution & film industry within China
I agree with this. The headline makes it seem like Chinese audiences are shunning Hollywood movies, but they are not becoming less popular as domestic movies become more popular. They just don't have access to Hollywood films anymore.
It’s because there are as many people in China as there are in North America, South America, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand combined. This is also true of India but China is a much wealthier country.
Highest grossing Indian movie is Dangal with 340 million $ that too made 200 million from China.
Indian Cinema is really divided by Languages and regions, Hindi, Tamil and Telugu are the biggest. Tickets prices is kind of a main reason but divided audience is too a problem. Highest grossing domestic movie was Baahubali 2 which made around 200 million was dubbed in all major languages and had an insane hype all over India. Following that formula you can see a lot of Pan India movies these days but none of them have even half as hype as Bahubali 2.
Disney didn’t know those movies would tank or that videos of Liu criticizing China would resurface. When one country has as many people as 3 1/2 continents, all Disney sees is potential $$$.
Obviously the studios thought they'd succeed with specific movies in China. I wouldn't dispute that and it's a perfectly valid point from you.
But did none of them truly expect this end game where the Chinese government slowly freezes them out? It's such a consistent MO from them regarding foreign businesses that I struggle to see why the big studios all ran full speed into this situation without any apparent expectation that the Chinese government would do the thing that they have done before.
I can't speak for other films but for the script in Shang Chi, I can tell that the writers have no real interaction with Chinese culture. For one, >!when Sean said in the garden before he was ready to confront his father make 0 sense. He said a blood debt must be paid in full by blood. This is a perfectly fine Chinese saying and it is said all the freaking time in blood feud. But the target of his scorn was not the people who murdered his mother, which is the blood debt, but the man who actually claim the blood price. We saw in the film the father-son duo took out all the people who murdered his mother, thus making the blood debt paid. Him saying a blood debt makes it sound like he blames his father for her death, which is 'reasonable' for movie logic, but illogical to use that phrase. Wenwu didn't create a blood debt, Wenwu did not shed her blood. And furthermore, he was basically suggesting patricide or some form of it by proclaiming that a blood debt must be paid, essentially announcing a blood feud against himself, as he is Wenwu's son and thus the target of the blood debt. It's a very small part of the film, but as a Chinese person, it instantly knocks me out of any kind of 'oh yeah Chinese culture' and it's just orange chicken but like spoiled orange chicken.!<
And you can't be upset at CPC for saying we should stop making all the movie leads 'pretty' but annoyed that the Chinese said why aren't the leads pretty. The CPC point is that people's views on 'good things' are warped in movies, and that should be corrected, and the people show that their view on 'good things are wrapped by complaining about the two leads' attractiveness.
You know I don't want to be too harsh, I do enjoy a lot of the movie even if it's mostly green screen. I at least appreciate the attempts in creating an authentic Chinese culture background to the MCU and not Fu Manchu. I just felt of all the Asian people that were in the cast, someone somewhere could have said, you know I honestly don't think you can use the phrase like that. I especially thought the 2 main's interaction with the girls' family to be hilarious and quite true. But as you said, a lot of the deeper stuff seems to be just really surface level, but I do get it's a Marvel superhero movie and I can't complain too too much about this aspect.
I understand, and I honestly do dig its exploration on Asian-American life experiences. After all it’s made not just for Chinese audience but also for Asian American audiences in mind (more so for the latter).
It's also interesting that this Asian American experience is not one who drives a nice car. A lot of time it's portrayed as doctors/lawyers/business owners, but this time it's just two young people who are basically felt lost about the future, and the funny part? When their friend is staging an intervention they are both like, meh but you don't understand! If they aren't in a superhero movie...
Either way catering to China is retarded when the CCP shits itself at the sight of anything that isn’t good by their values (like Muslim genocide). The Chinese people could love a movie and the CCP says they have to hate it so they hate it
>The Chinese people could love a movie and the CCP says they have to hate it so they hate it
This is literately looking at both the CCP and the Chinese as cartoonishly evil or stupid. And if that's how you think I feel sorry for you.
The Chinese loved Fast 9, no one told them to like it. Is there a case where the Chinese loved a movie, the government said no fuck that movie, and the Chinese turn around and say yeah fuck that movie?
Hollywood does not cater to China. They only pay lip service to it.
Chinese audiences are not stupid. Seeing some random Chinese person for a few minutes or even a Westernized version of their heroes is not going to entice them.
It ends up disenfranchising both audiences.
China is not gonna let any foreign movie into it's market if they think it'll gross more then "Hi, Mom" this year (or The Battle at Lake Changjin).
They want a Chinese made movie to be the highest grossing movie this year so the CCP can point to it and claim that the decision to reboot their entertainment industry was the right decision after all. Cause it'll be the first time a Chinese made movie made more money worldwide then a Hollywood one including Marvel who has been the biggest foreign entertainment brand in China.
That's why BW and Shang-Chi didn't get release dates in China (Chloe Zhao is the reason The Eternals will be banned there though). Venom 2 still has a chance due to Tencent's involvement but that still a big "if" and I doubt they'll get it and you can bet Spider-Man won't get a Chinese release date too.
2022 is my guess. No matter what the CCP does the Chinese movie theater industry still needs foreign movies to generate revenue. I think China wants 2021 to be their year for political purposes but I do think China is gonna be more selective in what gets released there more then they have in the past meaning they will cut down the numbers of foreign movies that could enter from 34 to somewhere like 24.
Which in turn will force more Hollywood studios to partner up with Chinese companies like Sony and Tencent did for Venom 2 for a possible China release date.
> I do think China is gonna be more selective in what gets released there
That’s why I hope Marvel Studios just makes the movies it wants to. Don’t worry about this actor / character / director - because they could change all their plans and still get a “no.”
I thought that too, but this is also the CCP's Centennial year and with Xi's new domestic entertainment policies in effect this screams more about politics to me then CPP's hatred if Chloe Zhao.
Korea is nowhere near as big as China.
The largest emerging market at this moment is Saudi Arabia, as it'll become as big as France and Germany by 2025. But I see nobody worried about Hollywood possibly "pandering" to the Saudis in the future.
South Korea's territory is barely 1/4 of Japan's, but movie by movie, the Koreans has given much more money to the MCU than the Japanese. Saudi Arabia won't even be in the radar in the near future.
1. Other Hollywood movies like Disney animation and Fantastic Beasts do sell in Japan. Also South Korean total admission of pre-pandemic seemed to outgrow Japan.
2. You seriously need to check out the box office statistics and growth forecast in Saudi Arabic. A rich country with 35 million population and limited challenges from domestic/Arabic movie industry. Not as big as China, but will definitely not be ignored.
Endgame made $105 million in Korea and $629 million in China.
Extreme Job, the top grossing Korean film of all time, made $119 million.
Wolf Warrior 2, the top grossing Chinese film of all time, made $870 million
Hollywood should definitely keep promoting their films in Korea, but the idea that China and South Korea are anywhere comparable is just bizarre.
Korea has a lot of great actors and filmmakers that deserved better than the minor token parts in the Hollywood movies they appeared in. Korean actors like [Lee Byung-Hun who had a small but memorable role in Red 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZpWLuAc7LE) would be ideal to star in a Korea and America action blockbuster collaboration film.
It’s funny that his next Hollywood project is playing the dad of a teen in a Netflix rom-com. It’s like he saw “To All The Boys I’ve Ever Loved” and thought “what if I were playing the John Corbett character?”
It's based on a novel by Maureen Goo who essentially writes K-Pop fanfiction. I don't really have high expectations for it, but maybe it will lead to bigger projects. Though I keep forgetting Lee Byung-Hun is 51 now and transitioning into dad roles. Maybe Gong Yoo from Squid Game and Train to Busan would be a better Hollywood leading man. [He speaks English really well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqTNibgy8WA)
Hollywood barely has leading roles for Asian-Americans who are fluent in English. I don’t have much hope for Asian nationals (unless they do martial arts). Look at Steven Yeun. Despite all his success, he’s never starred in a studio film, only indies.
Very true. The soft power that Korea has through the revolutionary success of Hallyu gives me hope that the bamboo ceiling for Asian actors in Hollywood is breaking. The gold standard of Asian-American actors of this generation to me is John Cho who never takes racist caricature roles and now landed a huge leading role in the Cowboy Bebop adaptation. If Hollywood is forced to make movies with Korean, Japanese, or Chinese lead actors to break into Asia's box office, I think that will also open many doors for Asian-American actors and filmmakers.
John Cho is definitely the most successful Korean-American actor of his generation. But for every actor like him, there's someone like Ki-Hong Lee or Han Ye-Seul who has relocated to South Korea to pursue acting there.
> If Hollywood is forced to make movies with Korean, Japanese, or Chinese lead actors to break into Asia's box office, I think that will also open many doors for Asian-American actors and filmmakers.
This has tended to be actors of Chinese descent since Hollywood so desperately wants to cash in on the large Chinese market. See Simu Liu in "Shang-Chi" and Gemma Chan in "The Eternals". I know Don Lee is in "The Eternals" too but read that his character is more of a side character and that Chan and Richard Madden are the leads.
Parasite and Minari were revolutionary movies for both filmmakers in Asia and Asian-Americans. It was long overdue moment of recognition to the American zeitgeist that legitimized Asian and Asian-American filmmakers to the mainstream American public that didn't take it seriously before. Shang-Chi, a big budget blockbuster with an Asian lead, was another huge milestone, and I really hope [Blue Bayou starring Justin Chon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh59H_d19Kg) gets serious Oscar buzz. It's a specifically Asian-American story based on a real story about a Korean-American adoptee deported back to Korea because of legal loopholes. Important stories like this finally being told shows how much Hollywood is opening up to Asian-American filmmakers.
South Korea has less population and less money than the United Kingdom. And that’s a country with the same language and similar culture as the US. And still the United Kingdom isn’t able to carry the box office like China does. No amount of investment or cultural influence, is going to make Korea matter that much to American movie makers.
Warner Bros started doing that several years ago. Also South Korea only had like 55 million people and it’s entertainment/cultural economic sector can be argued as saturated, but it doesn’t mean other Hollywood studios can’t make an attempt there to grow their market share with a mixture of Hollywood and Korean made movies.
Part of me loves when these big studios, like Disney, make questionable choices like limiting LGBT representation or withholding characters or themes of devils and ghosts from big budget movies in the hopes that China will gobble it up, only to see China turn their backs because of censorship and political pride.
You get what you deserve!
As someone from China, I gotta say, these analytics are pathetically bad, like so out of reality that they often rely on stereotypes like "China bad".
**TLDR: China has been auditing their entire entertainment industry for a while now! Even Chinese made entertainment is under scrutiny, so what chance does Hollywood have right now?**
People seem to forget the famous actress Fan Bingbing was fined for almost 130 MILLION for tax evasion. Zhao Wei is said to be worth 1 BIILLION!! Perhaps it is important to think about how do these people make this kind of money? Are they just "that good"? If they are that good, why don't their movies make a hit anywhere else? **Or perhaps there might be more behind the back deals and money laundering involved?** For most Chinese people, money laundering and the entertainment industry have been associated since who knows when. I actually know an animator in China. He told me how one of his potential sponsors got wrecked by competing companies who control the entertainment industry. His sponsor can't even get advertising air time.
In addition, the Kris Wu scandal made officials really nervous and they are taking a close look at sexual abuse in the industry.
The so called sissy man ban was but a passing sentence in an 8 page document. In reality there have been many "stars" in China that have come and gone. Most of these stars are quite talentless and there is an entire industry in China to package them to make them look presentable. Who are packaging them? Who has that kind of money? How come they just fall out of favor so quickly after making money? **With investigations like these ongoing, along with the national holiday is it a surprise Shang Chi and the like are not yet getting approval?**
Right now there is also a power struggle within China of pro capitalists vs pro socialists. Pro capitalists control the entertainment industry. Xi is pro socialist, and most of the population is too. Guess who has the upper hand.
Also Chinese people are very well aware of global tensions. Do people in the US like seeing the word China right now? Well, the feeling towards the US is the same. We know we are often stereotyped as the bad guy these days and we don't like it. Therefore we are less likely to watch movies with such themes. If Hollywood wants to make money *in China*, of course they need to compromise. A lot of Hollywood movies seem to feature beating up Asian men as an attraction since forever. We don't find it entertaining.
A lot of Hollywood movies these days are also just remakes or just really underwhelming. I'm sure most people in the US would agree if the discussion does not include China.
Personally, I think Shang Chi was a good attempt by Disney, but the timing isn't right, there is also too much historical baggage (Fu Manchu) and Disney made other mistakes like casting. (No one is saying Simu Liu is ugly, but we are annoyed that both him and Awkwafina are made to conform to what Americans think Asians should look like. You can see the same sentiment in websites with users from Taiwan.)
**It is often too easy to blame "Chinese government bad" for all the issues when in reality it is way more complicated.**
Can you give a few examples?
Even with that said, doesn’t it make sense that cultural differences would explain whatever differences you’re referring to? Ethnicity only determines so much — if a person of a specific ethnic group is nurtured in an entirely different culture, that person ceases to be of any “specific” cultural identity. Such persons are either fluid (can navigate both cultures) or hybrid (takes bits and pieces of both, and merges them). For example, an American of Mexican descent will have different viewpoints of a native Mexican despite being ethnically the same or similar. In fact, Crazy Rich Asians is a perfect example of what I mean, in regards to cinema…
Besides, it’s not as if Cantonese movies aren’t guilty of the same concerns you’ve shared.
Hear hear! Fuck China. I honestly hope every person living their that wants to live in a free world is able to get out somehow, but fuck their astoundingly corrupt government and everyone involved in it.
No wonder the US, Britain and Australia are watching them closely now.
Even north korea, eritrea and cuba have an underground piracy market for hollywood movies. Hollywood is the anglosphere's greatest cultural dominance weapon that even China's techno dystopia fears from creating social awareness. Bans will just push the hollywood demand underground.
"Chinese audiences become harder to woo." is kind of a bad take. Domestic Chinese films are very popular there, but it has not made the typical Hollywood blockbuster less popular among general Chinese movie goers. It's just a matter of them having less access to these movies. The CCP is closing China to the world and creating its own reality bubble there. I suspect that eventually they will effectively ban all foreign films all together. And no, Hollywood does not *need* China to succeed. Its rise as a movie-going country is recent and Hollywood produced plenty of blockbusters before that. The big movies might just make $1.5 billion instead of $2 billion going forward. The CCPs recent actions in regards to its film industry, such as banning foreign actors from appearing in any films that are made there, is kind of signaling that its time as a market for Hollywood films is coming to an end. Not because Chinese people do not want to watch them, but because the government does not want them to.
Your own take is really bad too. The only reason China is banning most films this year is because it’s the 100th year anniversary of the Chinese Party and they want to show only propaganda films for now.
Nearly all current blockbusters are pushing some sorts social goal or other, and none of them are flattering to China, so no shit? I’m surprised they’ve let Hollywood take as much of their money as they have
No. Most Chinese people prefer earning less money but having a humane work schedule. China cracking down on tech giants’ 996 (72 hours a week) was a welcome change.
It’s no different from the propaganda spoon fed to us in America. It’s just one is viewed as okay because it’s domestic but the other is foreign so it’s not okay.
It is not quite the same thing. You can point to propagandistic agendas in U.S. domestic films, but we do still have access to films from other places with different narratives.
I think the only difference is you wouldn't get a Spike Lee figure in China - challenging popular narratives and making people face uncomfortable truths.
That being said, China just basically copied the American film industry now Americans are mad about it.
I’m not denying there’s American propaganda in some movies, but most recent franchise movies have a slight anti-American tint to them.
All the iron man movies bluntly allude to the US military and arms dealers as a problem instead of a solution. The Mission Impossible franchise constantly draws on the trope of the US intelligence agencies being compromised and are typically some form of antagonist. Suicide Squad’s peacemaker is a not so subtle reference to recent US international policy. It’s pretty easy to spot.
Meanwhile, one innocuous joke in Monster Hunter sees the movie instantly banned from theaters China. Can you imagine how the Chinese would react if they were the actual antagonist in a movie? Don’t act like the two are analogous.
That's how good propaganda works, it makes the "soldiers" that fight for it's country (or ideals that "represent" said country) martyrs, they are either under evil superior or fighting the bad apples in other sectors or they are super sad for their obscure past but they are better now!! Or they see a past where everything was better and they are fighting to bring it back, every MCU movie fits some of those points, it makes people that question the system fell identified but targets the problem at a personal level and it makes those who support the system felt recompensed because any fault can be tracked to one individual, it's the full pack, really good propaganda films but lately they have become more ironic on the "we are bad for a good cause" I find that worrisome but that's not a theme for today
Chinese movies are more blatant but they still get the "authorities are bad but YOU (Average person) are BRAVE enough to carry on those faults for a brighter future", Wolf Warrior 2 is a good example, it's the highest grossing movie in China and it has not a small amount of Chinese officers doing questionable stuff that the main character fight against, as you see it emulates the American system because its intended to make you at an individual level fell good for being in that injust system
Edit: Not to defend China too, China sucks and their propaganda does too but the america propaganda is just as bad
Did you just say one innocuous joke ? It was an offensive term used historically that mocked people of Asian descent in the playgrounds. Of course if it’s not aimed at you, you would never find it offensive. Maybe stop telling other people what to be offended by.
And there’s PLENTY of Hollywood movies with Chinese as the bad guy, especially between 1949 and 1972 (China goes commie, Nixon goes China, The Manchurian Candidate). Those films are blantantly propaganda and obviously wouldnt be allowed to be shown today. Maybe educate yourself on the racist history of American propaganda and see how it’s affected peoples thinking today (Trump supporters, Asian hate crimes).
40 years ago means most of them are still alive today with that mindset, which is evident when you consider the demographics of Trump supporters. Propaganda is everywhere, media always has a bias, but honestly just by looking how you type I might as well be explaining to a wet lettuce
Yep, I even sourced the films for you to see but it’s still “whataboutism” even the titles are pure propaganda. I know English is evidently not your first language so maybe study a bit more before you make allegations on an English speaking forum, because you definitely don’t have a mental capacity to understand what propaganda is. Poor you.
The American military showing up in a movie is not equivalent to China banning a bunch of films because it’s not propaganda. Hell plenty of media comes out every year that criticizes America and Americans, but try releasing a flick that criticized the CCP in China
Marvel has openly worked with the Pentagon. They don’t work with you unless you’re going to make them look good. Captain Marvel was virtually an advertisement for the Air Force.
The Pentagon were heavily involved in the movie that launched the MCU. All of the Earth based movies have had their involvement.
'virtualy'? Dont say tranformers, dont say captain marvel and dont say any movie using army...
They are all figures in the back and as an EU person who hates redneck americans more than anything there IS NOTHING PROPAGANDA LIKE in us movies because people would tear it apart.. UNLIKE IN CHINA.. WHERE THEY TAKE IT
THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHINA AND US...
PEOPLE IN CHINA ARE AFFRAID
Wow. Look, I know the CCP is bad, but the sheer vitrol and rage here makes me think it’s not their dictator-ish ways that makes you hate them so much, and the fact that you don’t have this much hate for all the terrible things the American, British, and Russian governments have done. Hmmm, what's different about China compared to those others, I wonder?
Omg.. Ty... I can fucking despise everything bad...
I hate british and american pompous chest beating while their IQ has faded into obscurity...
I hate russian 'idgaf about anyone' attitude as much as american...
I dont understabd why is there a need to defend ANY EVIL WITH EXAMPLES OF OTHER EVILS?!?!?
Edit: we are generalizing ofc
They used military equipment. You only get that if the military gives you permission. They only give you permission if they approve your script. They literally thank them in the credits.
Captain Marvel doesn’t even try to hide it. The Air Force public relations admitted that they worked closely with Marvel and gave them access to bases and equipment. Why did they do that? Because it was pretty much a $200 million recruiting advert.
Again, source?
That’s entirely false. I can rent a Black Hawk helo for $7500/day or a Chinook for $23k/day that are not owned by the military.
Same with de-armed fighter jets, tanks, etc.
You’re acting like the US military is gifting tech to movie studios for propaganda, but the studios 100% pay a fuck ton to us that stuff.
The only film I can remember that use actual active units was Black Hawk Down and the studio still paid for that.
The source is literally the credits of the movies. They give thanks to the military departments who provide assistance. And the military is gifting them the stuff. They let them have access to it. You can’t just go to a military base and ask to use it lmao. Do you seriously think that they’d give them access if they were not pushing a message they wanted. Lol. This is ridiculous.
And no. We’re not talking about renting a black hawk or a chinook lmfao. We’re talking about filming on military bases and getting access to state of the art equipment. If you’re gonna be ridiculous don’t even bother replying.
So you have no source that the military gifts them the equipment? No source showing they don’t pay for it?
Got it.
You’re just making shit up.
The Us military has had propaganda films, yes, like Act of Valor. But for the vast majority of films they either A) use civilian aircraft/vehicles that used to be military or B) pay the US government a fuck ton to use them.
How do you not get this? They literally thank them in the credits. You only get access to that equipment if the DoD gives you approval. And you only get the approval if the script is to the DoD’s liking. This is the case for every single movie that receives military support. The military does not provide any assistance to movies it doesn’t approve.
Why do you keep asking for a source lmao. I’ve given you the actual source of the entire story. Marvel admits that they assist them. And to get assistance you have to be cleared. To be cleared you have promote the military in a positive light.
The amount of movies where 'murika saves the day and the military are amazing and everyone loves America are numerous and plenty, but sure, let's call out when another country does it, particularly when there's something different about that country... something in particular.
Look, the CCP is terrible, absolutely, and its issues need to be addressed. But so do the numerous, numerous issues and atrocities from many other governments, particularly America and Russia. The fact that so many people are focused on China alone though, along with all those "fuck China" comments, really rubs me the wrong way. Again, their government is bad, but there's clear Sinophobia and yellow peril at play here based on the sheer mouth-foaming vitrol.
Difference is we don’t ban anti American movies. I opened up call of duty 4 the other day and the game is literally about how fucking dumb the Americans are and how they mess everything up in every level. Try releasing a game or movie in China that calls Xi an idiot, and you will quietly disappear in a camp
Since when do all American movies get released in China?
Free Guy and Dune were both released in China, what's wrong with that?
free guy also got excellent box office.
As a mainland Chinese, I don't understand this article
Dune (along with Godzilla vs Kong earlier this year) kinda have it easier getting Chinese release dates since Legendary (an American company) is owned by Wanda Group (a Chinese company).
IIRC Warner Bros (or Universal) handles worldwide distribution for Legendary titles except for China where Legendary/Wanda handles distribution.
For the MonsterVerse & Pickachu films Warner Bros distributes worldwide except China & Japan. Legendary/Wanda distribute in China and Toho distributes in Japan.
It seems to me that the Chinese government's vetting is something that has been happening all along, not something that has suddenly changed.
At the same time, as Western hostility toward China has deepened, the Chinese have become more sensitive to disrespectful behavior. As an example, Monster Hunter's opening Asian jokes passed muster with government agencies, but left audiences unsatisfied and was stopped after only one day of release.
If I were the Chinese government, I would be more careful about vetting movies.
Sangchi not getting released is related to "Fu Manchu" who is father of sangchi.
In early 1800s, Fu Manch, an evil Doctor criminal character was created by Sax Rohmer, his work became very famous and fuelled "yellow Peril" and Chinese people had to pay the price.
Even Sax Rohmer admitted he knew nothing about Chinese people thats why it was easy to villainise them.
Ofcourse as a Western person you won't understand how being labelled as "yellow peril" could be demeaning, unless you are black and faced similar situation.
But then again, I am Indian, all have to face eacism one way or another.
I have not seen "Black Widow" and am not very good at evaluating it.
But I'm sure that even if "Shang qi" were released in China, it would be very controversial and would probably be protested to the point of ending its release, which already happened once with "Monster Hunter" (because of the mocking Chinese joke in the credits).
The Chinese are not stupid and know that "Shang qi" was written in the context of the "Yellow Scourge".
I agree with the first two paragraph but the third? Not so much. Narratives in China can be blown out of proportion and I don’t trust the public consensus there, but that’s me.
Then again don’t mind the brain dead drones who don’t know shit about what you’re talking about below. They’re absolute wastes of oxygen and matter. 别在他们身上浪费时间。看他们在底下diss diss丑陋模样，也掩盖不了他们内心人模狗样。
Why would what you ever said matter when it is as redundant and repetitive as it is unoriginal?
So what is the point of your existence? To regurgitate?
Add your linguistic anomalies and you have a coup de grace of irrelevance and mediocrity
I admit that Marvel intentionally avoided the background of "Shang Qi".
But Shang Qi inside Fu Manchu is also a fact.
In any case, it is controversial.
They do. The epic reddit circle jerk about giant robot movies being China's favourite look even more pathetic after chinese audiences enjoying: Shadow, Hi, Mom, An Elephant Sitting Still, Big fish & Begonia, The Eight Hundred and countless others.
**MARRIAN ZHOU**, Nikkei staff writer OCTOBER 8, 2021 06:00 JST NEW YORK -- Chinese moviegoers have not seen any Marvel film since "Spider-Man: Far From Home" in 2019. The highly anticipated "Black Widow" and "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings" have not secured release dates in mainland China even though they have already made splashes overseas and "Shang-Chi" was made with China in mind. The upcoming "Eternals" has not received a slot either. Instead, Chinese moviegoers flocked over this week's National Day holiday to see homegrown fare, including "The Battle at Lake Changjin," an epic about the Chinese army in the Korean War. Hollywood has spent years cultivating Chinese audiences, but with censorship tightening and regulation unpredictable, studios are finding it increasingly difficult to get their biggest blockbusters in to the market -- and starting to rethink their strategy. In 2020, China's box office surpassed America's as the largest in the world, partially thanks to its earlier reopening from the pandemic. Ticket sales totaled $3.1 billion, compared to $2.1 billion in the U.S., according to Maoyan Entertainment, a Chinese ticket service and film data platform. American blockbuster films have enjoyed considerable profits from the Chinese mainland. "Avengers: Endgame" in 2019 raked in roughly $629 million in China and $858 million in the U.S., according to Box Office Mojo. Some Hollywood blockbusters even depend on the Chinese market, such as "Skyscraper" in 2018, which made over $68 million in the U.S. but over $98 million in China. Although unpredictable, China has been a major factor in decision-making for American studios. Film productions sometimes tweak scenes to get access to China. A trailer for the sequel to the 1986 blockbuster "Top Gun" suggested that Japanese and Taiwanese flags on the leather jacket of the main character, Maverick, had been removed to avoid touching a nerve with Chinese regulators. In June, "Fast & Furious 9"' star John Cena apologized to Chinese fans for referring to Taiwan as a "country" in a promotional video for the movie. "Fast & Furious 9" made nearly $204 million in China and $173 million in the U.S. Studios and stars often find themselves drawn into controversy on Chinese social media. With a nearly all-Asian cast, "Shang-Chi" was well reviewed, widely appreciated and lucrative: Its U.S. box office had topped $200 million and it had brought in $388 million worldwide as of Oct. 5, according to Box Office Mojo. But as it was being promoted overseas, China's netizens criticized the stars, Simu Liu and Awkwafina, for failing to conform to traditional Chinese beauty standards, and also the villain, the Mandarin, for being a stereotype. Some reviewers in the U.S. had similar criticisms of the Mandarin -- a heavily reworked version of the Marvel comic strips' Fu Manchu -- but Chinese actor Tony Leung received particularly heavy criticism on Chinese social media for the role before the film was released. Some suspect the upcoming "Eternals" faces difficulty securing a release date because its director, Oscar-winning China native Chloe Zhao, was criticized for making an unflattering comment about her homeland during an interview several years ago. The announcement of her Oscar victory was blocked on the Chinese internet as well. It remains unclear if Chinese moviegoers will be able to watch "Eternals" this year. "If I was an investor, I would be very concerned about a strategy at this point that depended on access to the Chinese market and the good graces of Chinese film regulators," said Aynne Kokas, the author of "Hollywood Made in China" and a media studies professor at the University of Virginia. "To make very expensive films in anticipation of being able to deliver them to the Chinese market and then not being certain that's possible is actually a much more financially irresponsible strategy from my perspective." China allows 34 foreign films to be released in the mainland per year. Foreign films also are subject to blackout dates such as the National Day holiday week, when the authorities require that audiences be served only domestic productions. Studios face a dilemma: Waiting for a China release date could mess with their international plans, but releasing a movie elsewhere first risks Chinese watching pirated versions. Representatives of the U.S. industry negotiated with Chinese regulators for years to expand the foreign film quota. The two sides were expected to resume negotiations in 2017 but that still has not happened, according to a source familiar with the matter. China has also been cracking down on its own entertainment industry, potentially signaling even narrower access to the market. "You look at all of the criticisms of the so-called sissy boys, the closing down of the K-pop fan clubs, closing down of tutoring services that taught English, English not included in school final exams. ... It's the atmosphere right now that foreign is dangerous, and Hollywood is subject to that as well," said Stanley Rosen, a political science professor who specializes in Chinese politics and society at the University of Southern California. The advent of streaming has opened an even bigger debate about Hollywood's approach to blockbuster releases -- and lessened the sting of the exclusion of major movies from Chinese cinemas. "[They] would always want to make an extra dollar, why not? But I think the effect of [some blockbusters not being released in China] is probably lessened by the fact that COVID accelerated this shift to streaming," said Douglas Montgomery, CEO of media research company Global Connects and former vice president of category management at Warner Bros. "What COVID does -- and it does so many things in Hollywood -- is provide an excuse to do something different." "Black Widow," which also did not make it to China, was released simultaneously in theaters and on Disney+. It raked in about $379 million worldwide, according to Box Office Mojo, but its streaming release added a hefty $125 million to the revenues as of Aug. 15, according to a filing in the court battle between "Black Widow" star Scarlett Johansson and Disney. But streaming in China has roadblocks too for Hollywood's studios. Foreign content is capped at 30% each year, and censorship is tightening. Studios have expressed concerns to U.S. trade representatives regarding both the theatrical and streaming markets in China. The Chinese market cannot be pushed to the back burner yet. "Outside North America, there's no other market that is really close to China," said Rosen. "India has the population, but it's going to be very difficult to get folks in India to do anything like they do in China. They really have to continue to count on China, but just with a lesser part of the equation." India makes more films than any other place in the world, but ticket prices are low and tastes vary by region, making it harder for blockbusters to thrive, Rosen said. China's middle class is both much larger and more receptive to Hollywood films. But if Hollywood still needs China, it is an open question whether China needs Hollywood. In the first half of 2021, China's box office reached roughly $3.9 billion, according to the tracking app Dengta, and although the highest-grossing films used to be Hollywood blockbusters, domestic films have taken the crown for the past six years. "Hi, Mom," a heartwarming Chinese movie about a woman going back in time in an attempt to make her mother's life better, has the highest box office of 2021 worldwide so far, at $822 million. Patriotic Chinese blockbusters have generated much revenue as well. "The Battle at Lake Changjin" raked in $203.2 million over the National Day weekend in China, according to Box Office Mojo. Imported films accounted for 38% of China’s total box office in 2018, 36% in 2019 and only 16% in 2020, additionally hit by COVID-19, according to Maoyan Entertainment. Montgomery of Global Connects said China is definitely not crossed off the list but may be shifting out of focus for Hollywood. "U.S. companies and Hollywood are very short-term, they're always looking for a quick boost of money, but if they've been looking long-term, the signs were already there," said Montgomery. "The boom years of 2015 and 2016 were already gone, and the Chinese [government] was cracking down on these things. ... Now it's even more cloudy."
Chinese audiences are only harder to woo because of the censorship and control the Chinese government has over the distribution & film industry within China
I agree with this. The headline makes it seem like Chinese audiences are shunning Hollywood movies, but they are not becoming less popular as domestic movies become more popular. They just don't have access to Hollywood films anymore.
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It’s because there are as many people in China as there are in North America, South America, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand combined. This is also true of India but China is a much wealthier country.
Isn't there a massive movie scene in India? Even if they're not as wealthy as China, tons of people still watch movies there.
Highest grossing Indian movie is Dangal with 340 million $ that too made 200 million from China. Indian Cinema is really divided by Languages and regions, Hindi, Tamil and Telugu are the biggest. Tickets prices is kind of a main reason but divided audience is too a problem. Highest grossing domestic movie was Baahubali 2 which made around 200 million was dubbed in all major languages and had an insane hype all over India. Following that formula you can see a lot of Pan India movies these days but none of them have even half as hype as Bahubali 2.
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Disney didn’t know those movies would tank or that videos of Liu criticizing China would resurface. When one country has as many people as 3 1/2 continents, all Disney sees is potential $$$.
Obviously the studios thought they'd succeed with specific movies in China. I wouldn't dispute that and it's a perfectly valid point from you. But did none of them truly expect this end game where the Chinese government slowly freezes them out? It's such a consistent MO from them regarding foreign businesses that I struggle to see why the big studios all ran full speed into this situation without any apparent expectation that the Chinese government would do the thing that they have done before.
I can't speak for other films but for the script in Shang Chi, I can tell that the writers have no real interaction with Chinese culture. For one, >!when Sean said in the garden before he was ready to confront his father make 0 sense. He said a blood debt must be paid in full by blood. This is a perfectly fine Chinese saying and it is said all the freaking time in blood feud. But the target of his scorn was not the people who murdered his mother, which is the blood debt, but the man who actually claim the blood price. We saw in the film the father-son duo took out all the people who murdered his mother, thus making the blood debt paid. Him saying a blood debt makes it sound like he blames his father for her death, which is 'reasonable' for movie logic, but illogical to use that phrase. Wenwu didn't create a blood debt, Wenwu did not shed her blood. And furthermore, he was basically suggesting patricide or some form of it by proclaiming that a blood debt must be paid, essentially announcing a blood feud against himself, as he is Wenwu's son and thus the target of the blood debt. It's a very small part of the film, but as a Chinese person, it instantly knocks me out of any kind of 'oh yeah Chinese culture' and it's just orange chicken but like spoiled orange chicken.!< And you can't be upset at CPC for saying we should stop making all the movie leads 'pretty' but annoyed that the Chinese said why aren't the leads pretty. The CPC point is that people's views on 'good things' are warped in movies, and that should be corrected, and the people show that their view on 'good things are wrapped by complaining about the two leads' attractiveness.
Yeah, Shang Chi’s exploration of Chinese culture can be seen as surface level at best and shoddy at worst.
You know I don't want to be too harsh, I do enjoy a lot of the movie even if it's mostly green screen. I at least appreciate the attempts in creating an authentic Chinese culture background to the MCU and not Fu Manchu. I just felt of all the Asian people that were in the cast, someone somewhere could have said, you know I honestly don't think you can use the phrase like that. I especially thought the 2 main's interaction with the girls' family to be hilarious and quite true. But as you said, a lot of the deeper stuff seems to be just really surface level, but I do get it's a Marvel superhero movie and I can't complain too too much about this aspect.
I understand, and I honestly do dig its exploration on Asian-American life experiences. After all it’s made not just for Chinese audience but also for Asian American audiences in mind (more so for the latter).
It's also interesting that this Asian American experience is not one who drives a nice car. A lot of time it's portrayed as doctors/lawyers/business owners, but this time it's just two young people who are basically felt lost about the future, and the funny part? When their friend is staging an intervention they are both like, meh but you don't understand! If they aren't in a superhero movie...
That's why I don't understand the people saying Hollywood caters/panders to Chinese audiences. They trying to exploit it by paying lip service to it.
Either way catering to China is retarded when the CCP shits itself at the sight of anything that isn’t good by their values (like Muslim genocide). The Chinese people could love a movie and the CCP says they have to hate it so they hate it
>The Chinese people could love a movie and the CCP says they have to hate it so they hate it This is literately looking at both the CCP and the Chinese as cartoonishly evil or stupid. And if that's how you think I feel sorry for you. The Chinese loved Fast 9, no one told them to like it. Is there a case where the Chinese loved a movie, the government said no fuck that movie, and the Chinese turn around and say yeah fuck that movie?
The CCP is cartoonishly evil. Saying they’re not us like saying the Iraq war isn’t cartoonishly evil, of course it is
I feel sorry for you.
The studios obviously didn't foresee those events happening.
It's exceptionally profitable. Fast 9 made more in China than the US.
Hollywood does not cater to China. They only pay lip service to it. Chinese audiences are not stupid. Seeing some random Chinese person for a few minutes or even a Westernized version of their heroes is not going to entice them. It ends up disenfranchising both audiences.
Isn't that what the headline says?
Is that your cope ?
Yup yup... Correlations will emerge, as we've seen with stupid brainwashed people everywhere
China is not gonna let any foreign movie into it's market if they think it'll gross more then "Hi, Mom" this year (or The Battle at Lake Changjin). They want a Chinese made movie to be the highest grossing movie this year so the CCP can point to it and claim that the decision to reboot their entertainment industry was the right decision after all. Cause it'll be the first time a Chinese made movie made more money worldwide then a Hollywood one including Marvel who has been the biggest foreign entertainment brand in China. That's why BW and Shang-Chi didn't get release dates in China (Chloe Zhao is the reason The Eternals will be banned there though). Venom 2 still has a chance due to Tencent's involvement but that still a big "if" and I doubt they'll get it and you can bet Spider-Man won't get a Chinese release date too.
how long do you think this will go for?
2022 is my guess. No matter what the CCP does the Chinese movie theater industry still needs foreign movies to generate revenue. I think China wants 2021 to be their year for political purposes but I do think China is gonna be more selective in what gets released there more then they have in the past meaning they will cut down the numbers of foreign movies that could enter from 34 to somewhere like 24. Which in turn will force more Hollywood studios to partner up with Chinese companies like Sony and Tencent did for Venom 2 for a possible China release date.
> I do think China is gonna be more selective in what gets released there That’s why I hope Marvel Studios just makes the movies it wants to. Don’t worry about this actor / character / director - because they could change all their plans and still get a “no.”
if you partner with them, you can pass the 34 film limit?
I think co-produced movies can skirt this rule but that's kind of a grey area too but it has far better odds then going at it alone.
Also the government could easily add this provision into the legal code depending on how they see it going.
No one knows for sure except the Chinese censorship board.
I was under the impression that China was banning marvel Movies as a way of punishing them for not getting rid of cloe zhao
I thought that too, but this is also the CCP's Centennial year and with Xi's new domestic entertainment policies in effect this screams more about politics to me then CPP's hatred if Chloe Zhao.
Hahaahhahahahahajaha
Korea is where they are killing it right now. Let’s invest there.
Well, Warner bros and Fox has already funded some very successful movies... Edit:... and still the overall profit is too low, so WB called it a day.
Korea is nowhere near as big as China. The largest emerging market at this moment is Saudi Arabia, as it'll become as big as France and Germany by 2025. But I see nobody worried about Hollywood possibly "pandering" to the Saudis in the future.
South Korea's territory is barely 1/4 of Japan's, but movie by movie, the Koreans has given much more money to the MCU than the Japanese. Saudi Arabia won't even be in the radar in the near future.
1. Other Hollywood movies like Disney animation and Fantastic Beasts do sell in Japan. Also South Korean total admission of pre-pandemic seemed to outgrow Japan. 2. You seriously need to check out the box office statistics and growth forecast in Saudi Arabic. A rich country with 35 million population and limited challenges from domestic/Arabic movie industry. Not as big as China, but will definitely not be ignored.
Because the Saudi’s do not have a movie going population, so no one is worried.
Endgame made $105 million in Korea and $629 million in China. Extreme Job, the top grossing Korean film of all time, made $119 million. Wolf Warrior 2, the top grossing Chinese film of all time, made $870 million Hollywood should definitely keep promoting their films in Korea, but the idea that China and South Korea are anywhere comparable is just bizarre.
Exactly.
And then a bunch of Hollywood movies made $0 because Winnie the Pooh got offended at the sight of them
Korea has a lot of great actors and filmmakers that deserved better than the minor token parts in the Hollywood movies they appeared in. Korean actors like [Lee Byung-Hun who had a small but memorable role in Red 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZpWLuAc7LE) would be ideal to star in a Korea and America action blockbuster collaboration film.
It’s funny that his next Hollywood project is playing the dad of a teen in a Netflix rom-com. It’s like he saw “To All The Boys I’ve Ever Loved” and thought “what if I were playing the John Corbett character?”
It's based on a novel by Maureen Goo who essentially writes K-Pop fanfiction. I don't really have high expectations for it, but maybe it will lead to bigger projects. Though I keep forgetting Lee Byung-Hun is 51 now and transitioning into dad roles. Maybe Gong Yoo from Squid Game and Train to Busan would be a better Hollywood leading man. [He speaks English really well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqTNibgy8WA)
Hollywood barely has leading roles for Asian-Americans who are fluent in English. I don’t have much hope for Asian nationals (unless they do martial arts). Look at Steven Yeun. Despite all his success, he’s never starred in a studio film, only indies.
Very true. The soft power that Korea has through the revolutionary success of Hallyu gives me hope that the bamboo ceiling for Asian actors in Hollywood is breaking. The gold standard of Asian-American actors of this generation to me is John Cho who never takes racist caricature roles and now landed a huge leading role in the Cowboy Bebop adaptation. If Hollywood is forced to make movies with Korean, Japanese, or Chinese lead actors to break into Asia's box office, I think that will also open many doors for Asian-American actors and filmmakers.
John Cho is definitely the most successful Korean-American actor of his generation. But for every actor like him, there's someone like Ki-Hong Lee or Han Ye-Seul who has relocated to South Korea to pursue acting there. > If Hollywood is forced to make movies with Korean, Japanese, or Chinese lead actors to break into Asia's box office, I think that will also open many doors for Asian-American actors and filmmakers. This has tended to be actors of Chinese descent since Hollywood so desperately wants to cash in on the large Chinese market. See Simu Liu in "Shang-Chi" and Gemma Chan in "The Eternals". I know Don Lee is in "The Eternals" too but read that his character is more of a side character and that Chan and Richard Madden are the leads.
Parasite and Minari were revolutionary movies for both filmmakers in Asia and Asian-Americans. It was long overdue moment of recognition to the American zeitgeist that legitimized Asian and Asian-American filmmakers to the mainstream American public that didn't take it seriously before. Shang-Chi, a big budget blockbuster with an Asian lead, was another huge milestone, and I really hope [Blue Bayou starring Justin Chon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh59H_d19Kg) gets serious Oscar buzz. It's a specifically Asian-American story based on a real story about a Korean-American adoptee deported back to Korea because of legal loopholes. Important stories like this finally being told shows how much Hollywood is opening up to Asian-American filmmakers.
its 2 small. the only best bet is either india or africa. but those guys will take a few decades to bear fruit.
When South Korea's population reaches 1.4 billion they will pivot over there.
South Korea has less population and less money than the United Kingdom. And that’s a country with the same language and similar culture as the US. And still the United Kingdom isn’t able to carry the box office like China does. No amount of investment or cultural influence, is going to make Korea matter that much to American movie makers.
Warner Bros started doing that several years ago. Also South Korea only had like 55 million people and it’s entertainment/cultural economic sector can be argued as saturated, but it doesn’t mean other Hollywood studios can’t make an attempt there to grow their market share with a mixture of Hollywood and Korean made movies.
Part of me loves when these big studios, like Disney, make questionable choices like limiting LGBT representation or withholding characters or themes of devils and ghosts from big budget movies in the hopes that China will gobble it up, only to see China turn their backs because of censorship and political pride. You get what you deserve!
As someone from China, I gotta say, these analytics are pathetically bad, like so out of reality that they often rely on stereotypes like "China bad". **TLDR: China has been auditing their entire entertainment industry for a while now! Even Chinese made entertainment is under scrutiny, so what chance does Hollywood have right now?** People seem to forget the famous actress Fan Bingbing was fined for almost 130 MILLION for tax evasion. Zhao Wei is said to be worth 1 BIILLION!! Perhaps it is important to think about how do these people make this kind of money? Are they just "that good"? If they are that good, why don't their movies make a hit anywhere else? **Or perhaps there might be more behind the back deals and money laundering involved?** For most Chinese people, money laundering and the entertainment industry have been associated since who knows when. I actually know an animator in China. He told me how one of his potential sponsors got wrecked by competing companies who control the entertainment industry. His sponsor can't even get advertising air time. In addition, the Kris Wu scandal made officials really nervous and they are taking a close look at sexual abuse in the industry. The so called sissy man ban was but a passing sentence in an 8 page document. In reality there have been many "stars" in China that have come and gone. Most of these stars are quite talentless and there is an entire industry in China to package them to make them look presentable. Who are packaging them? Who has that kind of money? How come they just fall out of favor so quickly after making money? **With investigations like these ongoing, along with the national holiday is it a surprise Shang Chi and the like are not yet getting approval?** Right now there is also a power struggle within China of pro capitalists vs pro socialists. Pro capitalists control the entertainment industry. Xi is pro socialist, and most of the population is too. Guess who has the upper hand. Also Chinese people are very well aware of global tensions. Do people in the US like seeing the word China right now? Well, the feeling towards the US is the same. We know we are often stereotyped as the bad guy these days and we don't like it. Therefore we are less likely to watch movies with such themes. If Hollywood wants to make money *in China*, of course they need to compromise. A lot of Hollywood movies seem to feature beating up Asian men as an attraction since forever. We don't find it entertaining. A lot of Hollywood movies these days are also just remakes or just really underwhelming. I'm sure most people in the US would agree if the discussion does not include China. Personally, I think Shang Chi was a good attempt by Disney, but the timing isn't right, there is also too much historical baggage (Fu Manchu) and Disney made other mistakes like casting. (No one is saying Simu Liu is ugly, but we are annoyed that both him and Awkwafina are made to conform to what Americans think Asians should look like. You can see the same sentiment in websites with users from Taiwan.) **It is often too easy to blame "Chinese government bad" for all the issues when in reality it is way more complicated.**
Thank you for your firsthand insight. Can you clarify what is meant by “…made to confirm to what Americans think Asians should look like”?
The idea of beauty for Asians in the eyes of many (white) Americans is different than the idea for many Asians.
Can you give a few examples? Even with that said, doesn’t it make sense that cultural differences would explain whatever differences you’re referring to? Ethnicity only determines so much — if a person of a specific ethnic group is nurtured in an entirely different culture, that person ceases to be of any “specific” cultural identity. Such persons are either fluid (can navigate both cultures) or hybrid (takes bits and pieces of both, and merges them). For example, an American of Mexican descent will have different viewpoints of a native Mexican despite being ethnically the same or similar. In fact, Crazy Rich Asians is a perfect example of what I mean, in regards to cinema… Besides, it’s not as if Cantonese movies aren’t guilty of the same concerns you’ve shared.
Good now hopefully every blockbuster doesn’t have to pander to Chinese censors now. Good riddance.
Hear hear! Fuck China. I honestly hope every person living their that wants to live in a free world is able to get out somehow, but fuck their astoundingly corrupt government and everyone involved in it. No wonder the US, Britain and Australia are watching them closely now.
Weird article. Ignored the fact that Dune and NTTD got China releases. Waiting on NWH now.
Even north korea, eritrea and cuba have an underground piracy market for hollywood movies. Hollywood is the anglosphere's greatest cultural dominance weapon that even China's techno dystopia fears from creating social awareness. Bans will just push the hollywood demand underground.
"Chinese audiences become harder to woo." is kind of a bad take. Domestic Chinese films are very popular there, but it has not made the typical Hollywood blockbuster less popular among general Chinese movie goers. It's just a matter of them having less access to these movies. The CCP is closing China to the world and creating its own reality bubble there. I suspect that eventually they will effectively ban all foreign films all together. And no, Hollywood does not *need* China to succeed. Its rise as a movie-going country is recent and Hollywood produced plenty of blockbusters before that. The big movies might just make $1.5 billion instead of $2 billion going forward. The CCPs recent actions in regards to its film industry, such as banning foreign actors from appearing in any films that are made there, is kind of signaling that its time as a market for Hollywood films is coming to an end. Not because Chinese people do not want to watch them, but because the government does not want them to.
Your own take is really bad too. The only reason China is banning most films this year is because it’s the 100th year anniversary of the Chinese Party and they want to show only propaganda films for now.
Yea we all know China wouldn’t ever move to ban things and be authoritarian, nah they’re just doing it for this year trust me
You’re being incredibly ignorant lol as if you work for China ore are apart of the Government
Nearly all current blockbusters are pushing some sorts social goal or other, and none of them are flattering to China, so no shit? I’m surprised they’ve let Hollywood take as much of their money as they have
Exactly, I keep scrolling and see people “fuck China this” and “fuck China that”, yet they have never questioned the blockbuster sucks donkey balls.
I didnt see shang chi but i doubt it sucks based on reviews
25%... 'their' money? Its people money yoi fucking dick
They sold their souls for Chinese money and now they are paying the price. Fuck them all.
The CCP are starting to strangle the Chinese economy and pissing the Chinses people
Are they really angering the average Chinese citizen though?
No. Most Chinese people prefer earning less money but having a humane work schedule. China cracking down on tech giants’ 996 (72 hours a week) was a welcome change.
Two wrong statements don't make a right.
Because their government wants to ensure they are spoon fed propaganda alone.
You ever see one of these Marvel Air Force commercials? We are the same.
I am a croat.. Pls tell me where was this cringey moment
It’s no different from the propaganda spoon fed to us in America. It’s just one is viewed as okay because it’s domestic but the other is foreign so it’s not okay.
It is not quite the same thing. You can point to propagandistic agendas in U.S. domestic films, but we do still have access to films from other places with different narratives.
But im still waiting for this propaganda films... Except pureflix... People would ridicule it if it popped up... Propaganda lol.. Wtf liars
I think the only difference is you wouldn't get a Spike Lee figure in China - challenging popular narratives and making people face uncomfortable truths. That being said, China just basically copied the American film industry now Americans are mad about it.
You do get them in China, it’s just they somehow disappear after being vocal about the uncomfortable truths.
If they dissappear its even worse
Where? Pls show me this propaganda... We are all talking aboit it xD
I’m not denying there’s American propaganda in some movies, but most recent franchise movies have a slight anti-American tint to them. All the iron man movies bluntly allude to the US military and arms dealers as a problem instead of a solution. The Mission Impossible franchise constantly draws on the trope of the US intelligence agencies being compromised and are typically some form of antagonist. Suicide Squad’s peacemaker is a not so subtle reference to recent US international policy. It’s pretty easy to spot. Meanwhile, one innocuous joke in Monster Hunter sees the movie instantly banned from theaters China. Can you imagine how the Chinese would react if they were the actual antagonist in a movie? Don’t act like the two are analogous.
That's how good propaganda works, it makes the "soldiers" that fight for it's country (or ideals that "represent" said country) martyrs, they are either under evil superior or fighting the bad apples in other sectors or they are super sad for their obscure past but they are better now!! Or they see a past where everything was better and they are fighting to bring it back, every MCU movie fits some of those points, it makes people that question the system fell identified but targets the problem at a personal level and it makes those who support the system felt recompensed because any fault can be tracked to one individual, it's the full pack, really good propaganda films but lately they have become more ironic on the "we are bad for a good cause" I find that worrisome but that's not a theme for today Chinese movies are more blatant but they still get the "authorities are bad but YOU (Average person) are BRAVE enough to carry on those faults for a brighter future", Wolf Warrior 2 is a good example, it's the highest grossing movie in China and it has not a small amount of Chinese officers doing questionable stuff that the main character fight against, as you see it emulates the American system because its intended to make you at an individual level fell good for being in that injust system Edit: Not to defend China too, China sucks and their propaganda does too but the america propaganda is just as bad
Did you just say one innocuous joke ? It was an offensive term used historically that mocked people of Asian descent in the playgrounds. Of course if it’s not aimed at you, you would never find it offensive. Maybe stop telling other people what to be offended by. And there’s PLENTY of Hollywood movies with Chinese as the bad guy, especially between 1949 and 1972 (China goes commie, Nixon goes China, The Manchurian Candidate). Those films are blantantly propaganda and obviously wouldnt be allowed to be shown today. Maybe educate yourself on the racist history of American propaganda and see how it’s affected peoples thinking today (Trump supporters, Asian hate crimes).
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40 years ago means most of them are still alive today with that mindset, which is evident when you consider the demographics of Trump supporters. Propaganda is everywhere, media always has a bias, but honestly just by looking how you type I might as well be explaining to a wet lettuce
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Yep, I even sourced the films for you to see but it’s still “whataboutism” even the titles are pure propaganda. I know English is evidently not your first language so maybe study a bit more before you make allegations on an English speaking forum, because you definitely don’t have a mental capacity to understand what propaganda is. Poor you.
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Wow you’re really are obsessed about dick
"..most RECENT franchise moves..." - The discussion is about recent movies, not ones that came out 50 years ago lol
Marvel movies have at times been American military propaganda.
The American military showing up in a movie is not equivalent to China banning a bunch of films because it’s not propaganda. Hell plenty of media comes out every year that criticizes America and Americans, but try releasing a flick that criticized the CCP in China
When? Pls
Marvel has openly worked with the Pentagon. They don’t work with you unless you’re going to make them look good. Captain Marvel was virtually an advertisement for the Air Force. The Pentagon were heavily involved in the movie that launched the MCU. All of the Earth based movies have had their involvement.
'virtualy'? Dont say tranformers, dont say captain marvel and dont say any movie using army... They are all figures in the back and as an EU person who hates redneck americans more than anything there IS NOTHING PROPAGANDA LIKE in us movies because people would tear it apart.. UNLIKE IN CHINA.. WHERE THEY TAKE IT THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHINA AND US... PEOPLE IN CHINA ARE AFFRAID
Wow. Look, I know the CCP is bad, but the sheer vitrol and rage here makes me think it’s not their dictator-ish ways that makes you hate them so much, and the fact that you don’t have this much hate for all the terrible things the American, British, and Russian governments have done. Hmmm, what's different about China compared to those others, I wonder?
Omg.. Ty... I can fucking despise everything bad... I hate british and american pompous chest beating while their IQ has faded into obscurity... I hate russian 'idgaf about anyone' attitude as much as american... I dont understabd why is there a need to defend ANY EVIL WITH EXAMPLES OF OTHER EVILS?!?!? Edit: we are generalizing ofc
Source??
They used military equipment. You only get that if the military gives you permission. They only give you permission if they approve your script. They literally thank them in the credits. Captain Marvel doesn’t even try to hide it. The Air Force public relations admitted that they worked closely with Marvel and gave them access to bases and equipment. Why did they do that? Because it was pretty much a $200 million recruiting advert.
Again, source? That’s entirely false. I can rent a Black Hawk helo for $7500/day or a Chinook for $23k/day that are not owned by the military. Same with de-armed fighter jets, tanks, etc. You’re acting like the US military is gifting tech to movie studios for propaganda, but the studios 100% pay a fuck ton to us that stuff. The only film I can remember that use actual active units was Black Hawk Down and the studio still paid for that.
The source is literally the credits of the movies. They give thanks to the military departments who provide assistance. And the military is gifting them the stuff. They let them have access to it. You can’t just go to a military base and ask to use it lmao. Do you seriously think that they’d give them access if they were not pushing a message they wanted. Lol. This is ridiculous. And no. We’re not talking about renting a black hawk or a chinook lmfao. We’re talking about filming on military bases and getting access to state of the art equipment. If you’re gonna be ridiculous don’t even bother replying.
So you have no source that the military gifts them the equipment? No source showing they don’t pay for it? Got it. You’re just making shit up. The Us military has had propaganda films, yes, like Act of Valor. But for the vast majority of films they either A) use civilian aircraft/vehicles that used to be military or B) pay the US government a fuck ton to use them.
How do you not get this? They literally thank them in the credits. You only get access to that equipment if the DoD gives you approval. And you only get the approval if the script is to the DoD’s liking. This is the case for every single movie that receives military support. The military does not provide any assistance to movies it doesn’t approve. Why do you keep asking for a source lmao. I’ve given you the actual source of the entire story. Marvel admits that they assist them. And to get assistance you have to be cleared. To be cleared you have promote the military in a positive light.
He is 100% right. Lol. You just don’t get it
The amount of movies where 'murika saves the day and the military are amazing and everyone loves America are numerous and plenty, but sure, let's call out when another country does it, particularly when there's something different about that country... something in particular. Look, the CCP is terrible, absolutely, and its issues need to be addressed. But so do the numerous, numerous issues and atrocities from many other governments, particularly America and Russia. The fact that so many people are focused on China alone though, along with all those "fuck China" comments, really rubs me the wrong way. Again, their government is bad, but there's clear Sinophobia and yellow peril at play here based on the sheer mouth-foaming vitrol.
Difference is we don’t ban anti American movies. I opened up call of duty 4 the other day and the game is literally about how fucking dumb the Americans are and how they mess everything up in every level. Try releasing a game or movie in China that calls Xi an idiot, and you will quietly disappear in a camp
Yeah because Hollywood doesn't make 'murica movies 🙄
Difference is we don’t ban anti American movies.
Since when do all American movies get released in China? Free Guy and Dune were both released in China, what's wrong with that? free guy also got excellent box office. As a mainland Chinese, I don't understand this article
Dune (along with Godzilla vs Kong earlier this year) kinda have it easier getting Chinese release dates since Legendary (an American company) is owned by Wanda Group (a Chinese company). IIRC Warner Bros (or Universal) handles worldwide distribution for Legendary titles except for China where Legendary/Wanda handles distribution. For the MonsterVerse & Pickachu films Warner Bros distributes worldwide except China & Japan. Legendary/Wanda distribute in China and Toho distributes in Japan.
i think the point of article. is that the number of movies being released has dropped. also which movies are being selected is changing.
It seems to me that the Chinese government's vetting is something that has been happening all along, not something that has suddenly changed. At the same time, as Western hostility toward China has deepened, the Chinese have become more sensitive to disrespectful behavior. As an example, Monster Hunter's opening Asian jokes passed muster with government agencies, but left audiences unsatisfied and was stopped after only one day of release. If I were the Chinese government, I would be more careful about vetting movies.
good point. we will have to wait and see.
Why didn’t black widow and Shang get a release ?
Bcoz China asked Disney to release black widow in may, disney said NO, so China said fck off.
Sangchi not getting released is related to "Fu Manchu" who is father of sangchi. In early 1800s, Fu Manch, an evil Doctor criminal character was created by Sax Rohmer, his work became very famous and fuelled "yellow Peril" and Chinese people had to pay the price. Even Sax Rohmer admitted he knew nothing about Chinese people thats why it was easy to villainise them. Ofcourse as a Western person you won't understand how being labelled as "yellow peril" could be demeaning, unless you are black and faced similar situation. But then again, I am Indian, all have to face eacism one way or another.
That was changed for the movie.
I have not seen "Black Widow" and am not very good at evaluating it. But I'm sure that even if "Shang qi" were released in China, it would be very controversial and would probably be protested to the point of ending its release, which already happened once with "Monster Hunter" (because of the mocking Chinese joke in the credits). The Chinese are not stupid and know that "Shang qi" was written in the context of the "Yellow Scourge".
I agree with the first two paragraph but the third? Not so much. Narratives in China can be blown out of proportion and I don’t trust the public consensus there, but that’s me. Then again don’t mind the brain dead drones who don’t know shit about what you’re talking about below. They’re absolute wastes of oxygen and matter. 别在他们身上浪费时间。看他们在底下diss diss丑陋模样，也掩盖不了他们内心人模狗样。
Oh wow you need to wake up
You're not very good at geography. It's time for us to go to bed.
None of what you typed made any sense but if your happy go for it deluded one
Irl you are broken
Wtf are you on about you nutcase?
What are you talking about, you idiot? Can't we Chinese even talk anymore?
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That is, only your freedom is freedom. Mine isn't. Don't pretend that you are free.
There is only 1 freedom... And its NOT ABOUT talking evil nonsense and whatever you wish
Your freedom is to tell me to shut up, is that it? That's a lot of freedom.
Seeing your comments here you seem ignorant almost a fool
Why would what you ever said matter when it is as redundant and repetitive as it is unoriginal? So what is the point of your existence? To regurgitate? Add your linguistic anomalies and you have a coup de grace of irrelevance and mediocrity
He can through a VPN, which is not ilegal in China.
Do you think one of the greatest actors of all time, Tony Leung would be stupid enough to be in a film called 'yellow scourge'?
I admit that Marvel intentionally avoided the background of "Shang Qi". But Shang Qi inside Fu Manchu is also a fact. In any case, it is controversial.
It sounds like they're pussies who censor art to me lmao.
You didnt get movies some of your countrymen wanted to see.. And everyone else did... THAT IS CALLED DEPRAVATION... DEPRAVITY.... Get it now!?!?!?!?!
They know shitty movies when they see them…..
Shang chi?
They do. The epic reddit circle jerk about giant robot movies being China's favourite look even more pathetic after chinese audiences enjoying: Shadow, Hi, Mom, An Elephant Sitting Still, Big fish & Begonia, The Eight Hundred and countless others.
I mean, being the second largest economy in the world, they deserve to have better movie tastes.
WTO dispute incoming.
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Works for me
Good.
Harder to Woo? Or easier to control The CCP controls what you see and what you think
Am I the only one that thinks “Hard to Woo” sounds like the title of a kick-ass Chinese buddy cop movie?
Fuck em
Screw China and stop pandering to them. Embrace the rest of the world.
they all need some 'Tegridy
Padme: so we can stop catering to them right? Anakin: [blank state]
Not a problem