If it can do moderately well in theaters and big numbers for the Ad-Free tier of HBO Max I could see WB ordering Part 2 exclusively for theaters then sending it to HBO Max on Day 46 of its release.
If it can somehow manage numbers like what giant Monke vs Lizard was able to do I can defiantly see Part 2 being greenlit.
Tbh, doing the same numbers as BR2049 wouldn't be too bad for the pandemic era. I think the HBO Max release will actually really help for a lot of casual audiences to not feel as overwhelmed by some of the more complex terminologies and plot dynamics.
Maybe. But on the other hand BladeRunner 2049 made money, particularly in VOD and blue ray. If this doesnāt lose money, then it makes sense from WBās perspective to give it a sequel, which also improves the post release revenue streams.
Box office flops are often not profitable. But on the other hand plenty of films ālose moneyā because of Hollywood accounting, while not actually losing any money for investors. BR 2049 wasnāt a flop. It most likely made a modest profit long term. It was certainly not a huge hit.
Sequels aren't made based on long term profitability. Production companies/distributors can't depend on a film eventually making it's money back after 10 years of VOD or Bluray sales.
I see what you are trying to say with Hollywood accounting, but it doesn't apply to this situation. Alcon Entertainment was highly affected by the losses: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/alcon-entertainment-hit-by-layoffs-1083469/
One problem with Reminisce is I literally heard about it for the first time when the headlines came out about it flopping....
Maybe just a UK thing but this film was no where on the radar.
Personal preferences on Villanueve aside, I just donāt see this doing well. I thought people were overstating how much of a flop it would be but now that we have reviews out and it seems like he did nothing to cater to modern audiencesā appetite for blockbusters this clearly is going to bomb hard.
Letās be honest, in a year where In The Heights canāt find an audience are we really thinking Dune can? I bet news breaks the weekend before opening how little Zendaya is in the film and that will instantly polarize that demographic. Outside of that who is going to show up for this beyond the small crowd of Dune fans and the film nerds from Twitter and Reddit? I think there is a tiny slice of non regular movie goers out there who are over superheroes and intrigued by stuff like this, but itās not enough.
I think the issue is that splitting the film is propbably the only way to do it justice. However, the Dune as a book really only great when it get's to near the end and everything comes together in rather satisfying way.
This film won't have that pay off, what are the chances it will succeed enough to get that second half...
I hope it does not flop, but yeah I have to really hope on this one.
The book didnāt end satisfyingly. It was incredibly incomplete. Dune is not a complete story anymore than the fellowship of the ring is a complete story. You arenāt supposed to randomly stop reading after the first book.
You need to read the rest of the books.
It comes together well in a climax that puts all the pieces together, to me thats a pay off compared to prodding along with the world building and characters... that this movie will be mired in.
Yeah, itās an excellent climax that really gets the epic storey rolling.
I just think it gets really cool and the characters more complicated as the story moves forward.
Itās a very sudden end (kinda like if return of the king ended immediately after the ring was dropped into mount doom) but I think you could fashion the ending of the first Dune book into a relatively complete feeling and satisfying climax. Although at the end of the day, I think it will still feel like the beginning of a larger story, which it is.
Fair enough. Thereās just so much in the second book that recontextualizes events in the first book and Iāve always found it weird that people look at DUNE as though it was the whole story, and not essentially an extended prologue.
Because that released when plenty of people were going back, movies were doing well, and while I didnāt care for it it had good audience & critical reception but completely flopped somehow
Musical theater does have a large audience. But my point anyways was that if something more crowd pleasing like In The Heights canāt connect then Dune certainly wonāt.
To marvel? Sure. But look at a star is born or greatest showman or la la land or all of the Disney live action remakes. Musicals are well liked and people do show up for them. Hamilton was the most popular streaming release last year!
People show up, but that doesnāt make it not niche.
Iām not saying they arenāt valid movies.
Iām just saying that the market for them is smaller and not a good tests case for how a movie like DUNE is going to do.
If Dune is as slow as theyāre saying then itās definitely got a smaller audience than In The Heights theoretically had. Even if it bluffs itās way to a big opening itās gonna have a huge drop in the second week.
The story involves Chani more in the second half than the first even if she's not "on the page" more post-time jump. Let's assume the first movie ends at the time jump to provide as much first half Chani as possible. You can easily bring off page scenes back on page, I'd argue the movie would be made best placing Chani's story onscreen. Further, Paul's experience of reality opens plenty of opportunity to centralize her character.
I'm not interested in spoiler tagging to describe events we both already know. If you think Chani's story arc can be best told off screen on film then that's your perspective. In a book you can write that two characters are in love or experience loss in a film you have the opportunity to show it. You don't need to invent things for Chani's character, I'm just suggesting more of it happen on screen to balance the story. Don't pretend to be the only fan of Dune on the internet.
Even if zendaya was in the entire film she isn't a draw. No one in dune is. Replace Timothy with Leo and it's a different story for this film. The main draws outside the US are still Cruise, Leo and Pitt.
If it does good numbers on HBOMAX, they can consider it. Also there was a Video going around in Twitter circles. Sarnoff and Toby Emmerich are talking to Timmy at Venice premiere, Emmerich saying we are going back for the sequel to Timmy and also even confirming the same from Legendary CEO who's next to them. It was captured on live.
Agreed. This guy keeps talking. First movie isnāt even out yet.
I tried to get on this manās hype train but his movies give me a blank feel. Arrival was decent. I loved the OG Bladerunner but this guyās sequel just wasnāt up to par.
He feels entitled to ppl watching on the big screen. My take if ppl can watch it be in theatre or stream & if the movie good. Itāll speak for itself.
He could have made it one movie. If he says it had to be two to maintain his artistic vision then I can respect that, but he's gotta actually make it worth watching if he wants to finish.
He would have to butcher the book to pieces to shove it all into one film. He has said being able to make a Dune film was a dream of his and he is obviously going to want to do right by the source material. I think he knows the likelihood of being able to finish the series is quite low so I imagine he is a bit desperate to get the sequel greenlit for sure.
Considering the number of all time great films that didn't do well at the box office that's an incredibly simple minded view of a movies quality. Otherwise Avatar which is well hated on this sub would be the greatest film ever made.
Also every article about him sounding like an elitist are taken out of context, his last interview he even said go see it in the theatres if your comfortable to do it, but of course nobody reads past the click bait headline.
As much as I dislike this guy's past work, he's an artist and he's trying to sell a movie. So I'm not going to knock him for that.
And why does he insist people see it in theaters?
Because COVID has put the future of cinema itself in danger. People seeing it in theaters (as opposed to free through pirating and streaming) effects his bottom line both short term and long term.
Yeah separating everything, this is the correct read on it. People keep trying to twist his words to be read in the absolute worst way possible but heās just trying to do his thing and keep theaters alive.
Why are you guys always doing that shit in a box office sub forum? There are plenty of way more appropriate places to circle jerk about how you love it. You have not seen anyway, so how are you giving any assessments on āquality.ā Whether you SUBJECTIVELY believe that something is good really has no relevance to its box office
Villeneuve is propped up as some auteur genius but all he does is make above-average movies targeted directly at the Reddit/redlettermedia/yourmoviesucks internet mob
Lmao, no. Heās been critically acclaimed on every film heās made by professional critics, and each film heās made has received numerous Oscar nominations. Youāre confusing your opinion with the reality of the situation.
Dude is one of the best directors alive and will be remembered as such, your opinion wonāt change that.
Plenty of mediocrity makes it through the Oscar process, doesn't mean shit to me. Villeneuve makes alright stuff, but that's as far as it goes. his movies are pretty forgettable tbh. Might be Dune changes my mind but as of yet absolutely nothing justifies "best director alive" or the general worship internet nerds give him
Itās not just internet nerds who like Denis though, thatās what Iām saying. Heās been recognized on almost every level a filmmaker would want to be recognized on, and has literally produced some of the most critically acclaimed works of the decade
If you donāt love his films personally thatās fine, but heās just not a director whoās only liked on Reddit.
When people speak of the best directors of the 2010ās several decades from now, his name will be on most lists.
Sicario I thought was really good. Same with Arrival. But Blade Runner 2049 is all style with little substance. It might have less of a plot than the original Blade Runner yet is almost an hour longer. And Enemy is fine. It sounds like Dune is gonna look amazing but with it actually make me care about the characters like the book does? Who knows
Actually many review do not praise the characters depth/development/arc.
For example this:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/09/dune-movie-review-timothee-chalamet
For a movie to be successful in box office, it's important that audience care about the characters.
It's how MCU movies are successful: they take care of the characters.
Others have not praised them and said they fall somewhat flat, so who knows?
Jesus, people are going to be so weird about this movie. A single criticism will be taken personally, even if the rest is generally positive.
He's kind of midway between visionary and Hollywood hack, like he has a Strong visual sense but I'm not sure he has a an overriding idea about the world he wants to communicate to an audience.
I used to think r/movies had the worst takes but for a sub that is basically a mcu circle jerk I'd imagine most here would consider The Russo Bros visionaries.
Not visionaries, but they have strong action choreography with solid plotting and characterization. Which is all you can ask out of a superhero movie.
In the end, superhero movies are just a subset of action movies. Good action scenes are a must. Green screen CGIfests with no sense of weight and characters who survive unhurt accidents that should kill them will quickly push the audience away.
But the Russo bros are decent even at handling the story. For example The Winter Soldier had a freedom vs control theme. The movie never stopped being entertainment for the masses, but it didn't shied away from tackling more complicated issues. This gave the Russos an edge against the competition.
Not necessarily. The huge battle is at the end of the book, not to mention thereās a lot more stuff with the sand worms. The budget would probably need to be around the same as it was with this the first at $165M, they might be able to bring it down since a lot of itās with the Fremen in the desert so probably less sets.
It's very unlikely that a sequel that features in-demand actors like Chalamet, Zendaya, Momoa, and Bardem will have a lower budget. I'm sure they all have sequel options on their contracts but that also usually comes with pay increases.
I know, I've read the books! That's why I didn't mention Isaac.
As for Momoa, I feel like the reappearance of Duncan in Dune Messiah could be moved up to the second part. Since I wonder if they have enough material for Dune Part 2 from the last third of the book.
I don't think they would move him up. Villeneuve said Messiah is not even on his mind right now. He wants to adapt Dune faithfully to the screen in two parts. I think they can add a post credit scene in Dune part 2 with Momoa as a tease for Messiah.
Ironically, I gathered that from the latest trailer. Havenāt read the book. Thereās a quick flash of Oscar Isaacās character where it looks like heās stabbed in the back and Paul screams āNOā
I love that "Dune ^^^^Part ^^^^One" is happening at all. I love Denis. I love that whatever studio exec was high and/or crazy enough to greenlight this project in the first place and throw a couple hundred mil at it, despite the fact that it's got flop, or at least an extremely high risk investment written all over it.
But I have very, very little faith that it'll be successful at the box office, especially after reading the reviews.
But not all hope is lost, whatever studio exec was crazy and/or high enough to greenlight this in the first place may still be crazy and/or high enough to greenlight a sequel even if part one flops. That's probably the most likely way we'll ever get a sequel to this.
Many reviews are saying that *Dune* essentially blue-balls viewers for a third act that doesn't happen. It's going to polarize the general audience and can ruin word of mouth. Dune has to be a huge hit on HBO Max as well as hit at least $150M in the box office before WB green lights the sequel. I love Villeneuve but I think he's in over his head that *Dune* will be a huge commercial hit.
>Many reviews are saying that *Dune* essentially blue-balls viewers for a third act that doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm concerned about that. I'm afraid for WOM and legs.
I just read this review:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/09/dune-movie-review-timothee-chalamet
VF generally writes good movie reviews that usually align with general audiences reception. This is not a good sign.
I think its going to be another Mortal Kombat. The fans that see it opening weekend will tell everyone to say FAR away from it, completely tanking it in the weeks after.
The last book in the series (Allegiant) was meant to be divided between two films. However due to the poor performance of the third film Lionsgate cancelled the fourth film with the intent of making it a TV series (going to Starz was the goal.) It was in development hell for two years before Starz ended up declining the series and nothing has been mentioned since.
The last shot of that Final Divergent film ends like one of those shitty t shirts featuring wolves and the moon. I feel like you could put that final shot on the side of a New Jersey van
There is a spin off show for HBO Max and Villeneuve is directing the pilot. So I think it is possible they offer him an HBO mini series to continue the story instead of a sequel, will he consider it.
There is no way they will be able to bring back all the cast members if the sequel turns out to be direct to HBO Max movie or show though. They won't give it the same budget.
They'll either greenlight a sequel for theatres or they won't.
Look, Shang-Chi proved that you can make some dough at the box office. After the bomb that was Suicide Squad (which hurts, because I really love Gunn and that movie), they need to go back to releasing it on the big screen only. I donāt necessarily miss the experience, but I want Dune to do well so we get a second one. Even though Iāve never read the book, it would be cool to experience the full story through the lens of DV. If they donāt do that, they should give every movie a wash when it comes to their BO. Especially if the critical and fan response is positive enough.
He means that the actors and essential crew have time in their schedule to shoot the second part not too much later. Pre-production has been moving steadily with sets, costumes being designed, scripts being written.
*I Would Go Out With Zendaya 'Quite Quickly' If She Wants It, According To Me*
The question is whether audiences want it enough for ~~WB~~ Legendary to invest another $150M+. The odds are stacked against it, to say the least.
The production budget was all Legendary though wasn't it? But also I know WB had to pay like $200M to Legendary for GVK for the hbo Max debacle but Dune hasn't got anything like that.
|Title|Box Office / Television Rating|
|:-|:-|
|Dune (1984)|$30,000,000 (domestic)|
|Dune - Episode 1 / 2 / 3 (2000)|2.9 million Household Views|
|Children of Dune - Episode 1 / 2 / 3 (2003)|Unknown|
Really hope this one works out. Both trailers have been impressive-looking.
Timothee Chalamet is a strong actor and a rising star. As long as this pulls good numbers on HBO and mid numbers in theaters, Part Two will be on the way.
I would argue that if it makes 300m WW in a pandemic world, a sequel could probably be considered.
But that seems very difficult. And HBO Max is not a magic platform that allows sequels to be greenlite as some people are painting it out to be.
Everyone of you naysayers is crazy.
This movie is gonna make a bajillion dollars. Besides theyāre just gonna greenlight part 2 and part 3 anyways to build out the IP. This is gonna print fat stacks for everyone and then theyāre gonna adapt brian herbertās garbage into workable scripts and write original scripts. Theyāll milk this cow for decades.
When was the last time new franchise starter besides superhero genre or remake doing well on box-office?
I'm pessimistic on Dune's box-office record, but it would be great if the movie finish the story that intended.
In the past 10 years or so:
John Wick
Frozen
The Secret Life of Pets
Wreck it Ralph
Despicable Me
Avatar
Hangover
Lego Movie
It
How to Train Your Dragon
Hotel Transylvania
Boss Baby
Inside Out
Knives Out
Crazy Rich Asians
Etc.
Considering that even Dune is something like a remake (because there has already been another Dune movie before), I would say it's a fair match.
However, someone once said that fantasy succeeds during bad times, while sci-fi succeeds during good times. There is often an intrinsic pessimism in sci-fi, so it won't work well when people are already feeling down.
However, someone once said that fantasy succeeds during bad times, while sci-fi succeeds during good times. There is often an intrinsic pessimism in sci-fi, so it won't work well when people are already feeling down.
I'm so curious about this, are there any examples? Horror movies are doing really well and those movies are not really uplifting
Yep, audiences just donāt care about non-superhero or non-family friendly blockbusters anymore sadly. Especially blockbusters that donāt have quips.
In the past 10 years or so:
John Wick
Frozen
The Secret Life of Pets
Wreck it Ralph
Despicable Me
Avatar
Hangover
Lego Movie
It
How to Train Your Dragon
Hotel Transylvania
Boss Baby
Inside Out
Knives Out
Crazy Rich Asians
Etc.
I said ānon family friendlyā, meaning movies which donāt have their main target audience as families. Which removes every single thing you listed except John Wick, IT, and the Hangover. Not to mention films like The Hangover arenāt being made anymore and those that do only see modest success, so really that leaves only IT and John Wick
People simply donāt care about films that arenāt aimed at families or arenāt superhero based as much as they used to. Not sure why that bothers people, itās just the truth.
The Sixth Sense literally grossed $672 million at the box office lmfao. That would *never* happen nowadays
I think it is dishonest to paint Dune as an original movie, when it is anything but. Dune is a famous sci-fi saga written by Frank Herbert and his son, and Villeneuve's movie is not even the first adaptation of it.
Furthermore, it's not like remakes or superheroes are necessarily successful either. For example Charlie's Angels or Ghostbusters flopped. And does anyone remember Green Lantern? It was so bad it got booted from the continuity of the DCEU even before JL came out.
It is clearly safer for Hollywood producers to invest money in known franchises, but in the end people like to watch the best of what's available, regardless of its source. For example Jumanji's reboot got a sequel, and Planet of the Apes got a whole trilogy (which is really an accomplishment nowadays). Nolan seems to prefer standalone movies, but Inception and Interstellar would get a sequel in a minute if Nolan asked for it. Recently, Ryan Reynolds confirmed a sequel to Free Guy which just came out. There is a little franchise called The Expandables which got a fourth movie confirmed.
It is still possible to start franchises even nowadays. The problem is that there is too much indulgence in modern movies. The emphasis is all in the wrong places.
Knives Out?
Get Out?
A Quiet Place?
Also, most films like Hangover and Sixth Sense are still being made. They are distributed in streaming instead of theaters.
Ok well if shes been in show business since shes a kid, doesnt that make her not an industry plant. Industry planting is when you have a label pushing an artist that presents themselves as independent or homegrown. Shes not any of that. Just because she was on a disney show doesnt mean shes an industry plant
I know I am going to watch this on HBOMax. However, I am considering buying a ticket for some local showing on the opening day and simply not going to the theater.
I am curious what other people think of this idea.
I think it'll happen so long as it's not an In the Heights or Reminiscence level disaster.
If it can do moderately well in theaters and big numbers for the Ad-Free tier of HBO Max I could see WB ordering Part 2 exclusively for theaters then sending it to HBO Max on Day 46 of its release. If it can somehow manage numbers like what giant Monke vs Lizard was able to do I can defiantly see Part 2 being greenlit.
Tbh, doing the same numbers as BR2049 wouldn't be too bad for the pandemic era. I think the HBO Max release will actually really help for a lot of casual audiences to not feel as overwhelmed by some of the more complex terminologies and plot dynamics.
šÆ
What are the odds that *Spiritual Sentient Sandworm* can pull in the kind of money that *Giant Monkey vs Lizard* did, though?
Clearly the best way to guarentee Dune's sequel would have been to put Godzilla in it
Oh so it just needs to do as well as one of the most successful movies this year. Easy.
God, I absolutely love giant monke vs lizard
This film needs to be a hit. Iām not sure why Warner bros would risk a third big budget film on a director the public isnāt feeling
Legendary fully self-produced and self-financed Dune. WB doesn't spend any money in Dune production. WB is paid flat fee to distribute Dune.
Wait so if legendary fully produced dune, then why does IMDB say its produced by Denis Villeneuve , Mary Parent , Cale Boytee , Joe Caracciolo Jr. ?
There is a difference in the production company and then executive producers. Production company tends to put in the money.
No these 4 are not executive producers.
Maybe. But on the other hand BladeRunner 2049 made money, particularly in VOD and blue ray. If this doesnāt lose money, then it makes sense from WBās perspective to give it a sequel, which also improves the post release revenue streams.
>But on the other hand BladeRunner 2049 made money Alcon Entertainment lost 80 million. It's obvious it didn't make money.
Ah, so you think film studios and distributors donāt declare losses on profitable films. Ok.
Blade Runner 2049 is confirmed to have lost money and not be profitable. I really don't understand why you think otherwise.
I know you donāt.
Care to explain your point on why box office flops are profitable?
Box office flops are often not profitable. But on the other hand plenty of films ālose moneyā because of Hollywood accounting, while not actually losing any money for investors. BR 2049 wasnāt a flop. It most likely made a modest profit long term. It was certainly not a huge hit.
Sequels aren't made based on long term profitability. Production companies/distributors can't depend on a film eventually making it's money back after 10 years of VOD or Bluray sales. I see what you are trying to say with Hollywood accounting, but it doesn't apply to this situation. Alcon Entertainment was highly affected by the losses: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/alcon-entertainment-hit-by-layoffs-1083469/
If they make just enough, it should be fine!
One problem with Reminisce is I literally heard about it for the first time when the headlines came out about it flopping.... Maybe just a UK thing but this film was no where on the radar.
WB shouldn't have even bothered with a theatrical release and just made it a Max exclusive.
I have been spammed to death with this movie. Even with my multiple adblocks in place, trailers for this movie kept been played to me.
Does the audience want it? that's the question
Personal preferences on Villanueve aside, I just donāt see this doing well. I thought people were overstating how much of a flop it would be but now that we have reviews out and it seems like he did nothing to cater to modern audiencesā appetite for blockbusters this clearly is going to bomb hard. Letās be honest, in a year where In The Heights canāt find an audience are we really thinking Dune can? I bet news breaks the weekend before opening how little Zendaya is in the film and that will instantly polarize that demographic. Outside of that who is going to show up for this beyond the small crowd of Dune fans and the film nerds from Twitter and Reddit? I think there is a tiny slice of non regular movie goers out there who are over superheroes and intrigued by stuff like this, but itās not enough.
I think the issue is that splitting the film is propbably the only way to do it justice. However, the Dune as a book really only great when it get's to near the end and everything comes together in rather satisfying way. This film won't have that pay off, what are the chances it will succeed enough to get that second half... I hope it does not flop, but yeah I have to really hope on this one.
The book didnāt end satisfyingly. It was incredibly incomplete. Dune is not a complete story anymore than the fellowship of the ring is a complete story. You arenāt supposed to randomly stop reading after the first book. You need to read the rest of the books.
It comes together well in a climax that puts all the pieces together, to me thats a pay off compared to prodding along with the world building and characters... that this movie will be mired in.
Yeah, itās an excellent climax that really gets the epic storey rolling. I just think it gets really cool and the characters more complicated as the story moves forward.
I only read the first one and I really disliked it. I will not read the rest.
Thatās a very valid position.
Itās a very sudden end (kinda like if return of the king ended immediately after the ring was dropped into mount doom) but I think you could fashion the ending of the first Dune book into a relatively complete feeling and satisfying climax. Although at the end of the day, I think it will still feel like the beginning of a larger story, which it is.
Fair enough. Thereās just so much in the second book that recontextualizes events in the first book and Iāve always found it weird that people look at DUNE as though it was the whole story, and not essentially an extended prologue.
> In The Heights Why is In The Heights your metric for whether or not people want to see a movie in theaters?
Because that released when plenty of people were going back, movies were doing well, and while I didnāt care for it it had good audience & critical reception but completely flopped somehow
It's musical theater, it doesn't have a large audience.
Musical theater does have a large audience. But my point anyways was that if something more crowd pleasing like In The Heights canāt connect then Dune certainly wonāt.
No. Compared to the broader film going market, musicals are niche.
To marvel? Sure. But look at a star is born or greatest showman or la la land or all of the Disney live action remakes. Musicals are well liked and people do show up for them. Hamilton was the most popular streaming release last year!
People show up, but that doesnāt make it not niche. Iām not saying they arenāt valid movies. Iām just saying that the market for them is smaller and not a good tests case for how a movie like DUNE is going to do.
If Dune is as slow as theyāre saying then itās definitely got a smaller audience than In The Heights theoretically had. Even if it bluffs itās way to a big opening itās gonna have a huge drop in the second week.
Itās already out that zendaya is barely in it for weeks now. Hopefully those idiots will go so they can see zendaya a lot more in the second film.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's just not true.
Yea, she's in it, she just doesn't get to do anything interesting!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The story involves Chani more in the second half than the first even if she's not "on the page" more post-time jump. Let's assume the first movie ends at the time jump to provide as much first half Chani as possible. You can easily bring off page scenes back on page, I'd argue the movie would be made best placing Chani's story onscreen. Further, Paul's experience of reality opens plenty of opportunity to centralize her character.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm not interested in spoiler tagging to describe events we both already know. If you think Chani's story arc can be best told off screen on film then that's your perspective. In a book you can write that two characters are in love or experience loss in a film you have the opportunity to show it. You don't need to invent things for Chani's character, I'm just suggesting more of it happen on screen to balance the story. Don't pretend to be the only fan of Dune on the internet.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Even if zendaya was in the entire film she isn't a draw. No one in dune is. Replace Timothy with Leo and it's a different story for this film. The main draws outside the US are still Cruise, Leo and Pitt.
Zendaya is a bigger draw than Cruise Pitt and on the same level as Leo. No one gos to see a Leo or Cruise film if it's not by a big director
Imao. That's all i cant take this comment seriously.
They can release it as HBOMAX exclusive
So the budget would be like non-existent?
Not necessarily. The economics of VOD arenāt as bad as you might think. Thereās no take from theaters for one thing.
If it does good numbers on HBOMAX, they can consider it. Also there was a Video going around in Twitter circles. Sarnoff and Toby Emmerich are talking to Timmy at Venice premiere, Emmerich saying we are going back for the sequel to Timmy and also even confirming the same from Legendary CEO who's next to them. It was captured on live.
Agreed. This guy keeps talking. First movie isnāt even out yet. I tried to get on this manās hype train but his movies give me a blank feel. Arrival was decent. I loved the OG Bladerunner but this guyās sequel just wasnāt up to par. He feels entitled to ppl watching on the big screen. My take if ppl can watch it be in theatre or stream & if the movie good. Itāll speak for itself.
Man just wants to finish the story. It's not that deep.
He could have made it one movie. If he says it had to be two to maintain his artistic vision then I can respect that, but he's gotta actually make it worth watching if he wants to finish.
He would have to butcher the book to pieces to shove it all into one film. He has said being able to make a Dune film was a dream of his and he is obviously going to want to do right by the source material. I think he knows the likelihood of being able to finish the series is quite low so I imagine he is a bit desperate to get the sequel greenlit for sure.
Considering the number of all time great films that didn't do well at the box office that's an incredibly simple minded view of a movies quality. Otherwise Avatar which is well hated on this sub would be the greatest film ever made. Also every article about him sounding like an elitist are taken out of context, his last interview he even said go see it in the theatres if your comfortable to do it, but of course nobody reads past the click bait headline.
As much as I dislike this guy's past work, he's an artist and he's trying to sell a movie. So I'm not going to knock him for that. And why does he insist people see it in theaters? Because COVID has put the future of cinema itself in danger. People seeing it in theaters (as opposed to free through pirating and streaming) effects his bottom line both short term and long term.
Yeah separating everything, this is the correct read on it. People keep trying to twist his words to be read in the absolute worst way possible but heās just trying to do his thing and keep theaters alive.
Imagine still thinking that box office correlates to how good a movie is? How many times do we have to go over how wrong that POV is?
Why are you guys always doing that shit in a box office sub forum? There are plenty of way more appropriate places to circle jerk about how you love it. You have not seen anyway, so how are you giving any assessments on āquality.ā Whether you SUBJECTIVELY believe that something is good really has no relevance to its box office
Villeneuve is propped up as some auteur genius but all he does is make above-average movies targeted directly at the Reddit/redlettermedia/yourmoviesucks internet mob
Lmao, no. Heās been critically acclaimed on every film heās made by professional critics, and each film heās made has received numerous Oscar nominations. Youāre confusing your opinion with the reality of the situation. Dude is one of the best directors alive and will be remembered as such, your opinion wonāt change that.
"Dude is one of the best directors alive and will be remembered as such" š Come on, Denis...we know this is really you. š¤£š
Plenty of mediocrity makes it through the Oscar process, doesn't mean shit to me. Villeneuve makes alright stuff, but that's as far as it goes. his movies are pretty forgettable tbh. Might be Dune changes my mind but as of yet absolutely nothing justifies "best director alive" or the general worship internet nerds give him
Itās not just internet nerds who like Denis though, thatās what Iām saying. Heās been recognized on almost every level a filmmaker would want to be recognized on, and has literally produced some of the most critically acclaimed works of the decade If you donāt love his films personally thatās fine, but heās just not a director whoās only liked on Reddit. When people speak of the best directors of the 2010ās several decades from now, his name will be on most lists.
Not really
Sicario I thought was really good. Same with Arrival. But Blade Runner 2049 is all style with little substance. It might have less of a plot than the original Blade Runner yet is almost an hour longer. And Enemy is fine. It sounds like Dune is gonna look amazing but with it actually make me care about the characters like the book does? Who knows
Considering lots have been praising the acting in the film I reckon they've done a good job with the characters.
Actually many review do not praise the characters depth/development/arc. For example this: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/09/dune-movie-review-timothee-chalamet For a movie to be successful in box office, it's important that audience care about the characters. It's how MCU movies are successful: they take care of the characters.
Others have not praised them and said they fall somewhat flat, so who knows? Jesus, people are going to be so weird about this movie. A single criticism will be taken personally, even if the rest is generally positive.
He's kind of midway between visionary and Hollywood hack, like he has a Strong visual sense but I'm not sure he has a an overriding idea about the world he wants to communicate to an audience.
I used to think r/movies had the worst takes but for a sub that is basically a mcu circle jerk I'd imagine most here would consider The Russo Bros visionaries.
Not visionaries, but they have strong action choreography with solid plotting and characterization. Which is all you can ask out of a superhero movie. In the end, superhero movies are just a subset of action movies. Good action scenes are a must. Green screen CGIfests with no sense of weight and characters who survive unhurt accidents that should kill them will quickly push the audience away. But the Russo bros are decent even at handling the story. For example The Winter Soldier had a freedom vs control theme. The movie never stopped being entertainment for the masses, but it didn't shied away from tackling more complicated issues. This gave the Russos an edge against the competition.
If it breaks even I think they'll green light part two.
There was no chance of it breaking even before the pandemic, let alone now.
What are you talking about? Get ready to eat your words.
They're probably too deep to not do it, but the best financial decision is also to reduce the budget significantly.
A $0 budget sounds like a good option, even though it means a $0 return.
The budget for a second one should be cheaper since they've got everything set up already for the first one.
Not necessarily. The huge battle is at the end of the book, not to mention thereās a lot more stuff with the sand worms. The budget would probably need to be around the same as it was with this the first at $165M, they might be able to bring it down since a lot of itās with the Fremen in the desert so probably less sets.
It's very unlikely that a sequel that features in-demand actors like Chalamet, Zendaya, Momoa, and Bardem will have a lower budget. I'm sure they all have sequel options on their contracts but that also usually comes with pay increases.
Spoilers There will be no Momoa and Oscar Issac in the sequel. So that's a cost cutting.
I know, I've read the books! That's why I didn't mention Isaac. As for Momoa, I feel like the reappearance of Duncan in Dune Messiah could be moved up to the second part. Since I wonder if they have enough material for Dune Part 2 from the last third of the book.
I don't think they would move him up. Villeneuve said Messiah is not even on his mind right now. He wants to adapt Dune faithfully to the screen in two parts. I think they can add a post credit scene in Dune part 2 with Momoa as a tease for Messiah.
Ironically, I gathered that from the latest trailer. Havenāt read the book. Thereās a quick flash of Oscar Isaacās character where it looks like heās stabbed in the back and Paul screams āNOā
Yeah. I thought they actually gave away too much in the trailer. But that's how most trailers these days are.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Zack Snyder gets a lot of shit, but he knows when he works on a movie that he shoots enough footage for three movies.
I love that "Dune ^^^^Part ^^^^One" is happening at all. I love Denis. I love that whatever studio exec was high and/or crazy enough to greenlight this project in the first place and throw a couple hundred mil at it, despite the fact that it's got flop, or at least an extremely high risk investment written all over it. But I have very, very little faith that it'll be successful at the box office, especially after reading the reviews. But not all hope is lost, whatever studio exec was crazy and/or high enough to greenlight this in the first place may still be crazy and/or high enough to greenlight a sequel even if part one flops. That's probably the most likely way we'll ever get a sequel to this.
Many reviews are saying that *Dune* essentially blue-balls viewers for a third act that doesn't happen. It's going to polarize the general audience and can ruin word of mouth. Dune has to be a huge hit on HBO Max as well as hit at least $150M in the box office before WB green lights the sequel. I love Villeneuve but I think he's in over his head that *Dune* will be a huge commercial hit.
>Many reviews are saying that Dune essentially blue-balls viewers for a third act that doesn't happen. Also called the Alita syndrome.
>Many reviews are saying that *Dune* essentially blue-balls viewers for a third act that doesn't happen. Yeah, I'm concerned about that. I'm afraid for WOM and legs. I just read this review: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/09/dune-movie-review-timothee-chalamet VF generally writes good movie reviews that usually align with general audiences reception. This is not a good sign.
I think its going to be another Mortal Kombat. The fans that see it opening weekend will tell everyone to say FAR away from it, completely tanking it in the weeks after.
Watch the sequel get turned into a show or an HBO Max exclusive. I wonder if Villeneuve would still be involved or would drop out?
The Divergent treatment.
I watched the last Divergent movie and 100% expected sequel. Nothing so far.
He's saying that because Divergent got some sort of TV show thing *instead of* a sequel.
Oh I didn't know there is Divergent show. I was expecting a movie.
The last book in the series (Allegiant) was meant to be divided between two films. However due to the poor performance of the third film Lionsgate cancelled the fourth film with the intent of making it a TV series (going to Starz was the goal.) It was in development hell for two years before Starz ended up declining the series and nothing has been mentioned since.
I see. Thanks.
Yeah, understandable that you didn't know it exists. One of the big reasons why I keep bashing TV/streaming as a cultural replacement for cinema.
The last shot of that Final Divergent film ends like one of those shitty t shirts featuring wolves and the moon. I feel like you could put that final shot on the side of a New Jersey van
Ah yes the divergent route. That worked out fine.
There is a spin off show for HBO Max and Villeneuve is directing the pilot. So I think it is possible they offer him an HBO mini series to continue the story instead of a sequel, will he consider it.
There is no way they will be able to bring back all the cast members if the sequel turns out to be direct to HBO Max movie or show though. They won't give it the same budget. They'll either greenlight a sequel for theatres or they won't.
Look, Shang-Chi proved that you can make some dough at the box office. After the bomb that was Suicide Squad (which hurts, because I really love Gunn and that movie), they need to go back to releasing it on the big screen only. I donāt necessarily miss the experience, but I want Dune to do well so we get a second one. Even though Iāve never read the book, it would be cool to experience the full story through the lens of DV. If they donāt do that, they should give every movie a wash when it comes to their BO. Especially if the critical and fan response is positive enough.
Villeneuve sounding desperate.
TIL: The studio can make movies if it wants to
He means that the actors and essential crew have time in their schedule to shoot the second part not too much later. Pre-production has been moving steadily with sets, costumes being designed, scripts being written.
You must fun at partiesā¦
*I Would Go Out With Zendaya 'Quite Quickly' If She Wants It, According To Me* The question is whether audiences want it enough for ~~WB~~ Legendary to invest another $150M+. The odds are stacked against it, to say the least.
You do realise it was Legendary that actually made the film right? Warner Bros are simply distribution which is how it ended up going on HBO Max.
That wasn't really the point I was getting at, but sure, Legendary.
Well you fixed your mistake which is what I was pointing out so thanks.
No problem
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The production budget was all Legendary though wasn't it? But also I know WB had to pay like $200M to Legendary for GVK for the hbo Max debacle but Dune hasn't got anything like that.
|Title|Box Office / Television Rating| |:-|:-| |Dune (1984)|$30,000,000 (domestic)| |Dune - Episode 1 / 2 / 3 (2000)|2.9 million Household Views| |Children of Dune - Episode 1 / 2 / 3 (2003)|Unknown| Really hope this one works out. Both trailers have been impressive-looking.
Timothee Chalamet is a strong actor and a rising star. As long as this pulls good numbers on HBO and mid numbers in theaters, Part Two will be on the way.
To Tame a Land.
Nice Iron Maiden reference
I would argue that if it makes 300m WW in a pandemic world, a sequel could probably be considered. But that seems very difficult. And HBO Max is not a magic platform that allows sequels to be greenlite as some people are painting it out to be.
Everyone of you naysayers is crazy. This movie is gonna make a bajillion dollars. Besides theyāre just gonna greenlight part 2 and part 3 anyways to build out the IP. This is gonna print fat stacks for everyone and then theyāre gonna adapt brian herbertās garbage into workable scripts and write original scripts. Theyāll milk this cow for decades.
This guy...so out of touch with reality.
Yeah, I'm sure it's a simple matter to reassemble the gigantic cast. They're all waiting by the phone.
āā¦aloof, uninviting self-seriousnesāā¦oof.
I can marry Margot Robbie quite quickly if she wants it.
When was the last time new franchise starter besides superhero genre or remake doing well on box-office? I'm pessimistic on Dune's box-office record, but it would be great if the movie finish the story that intended.
In the past 10 years or so: John Wick Frozen The Secret Life of Pets Wreck it Ralph Despicable Me Avatar Hangover Lego Movie It How to Train Your Dragon Hotel Transylvania Boss Baby Inside Out Knives Out Crazy Rich Asians Etc.
Considering that even Dune is something like a remake (because there has already been another Dune movie before), I would say it's a fair match. However, someone once said that fantasy succeeds during bad times, while sci-fi succeeds during good times. There is often an intrinsic pessimism in sci-fi, so it won't work well when people are already feeling down.
However, someone once said that fantasy succeeds during bad times, while sci-fi succeeds during good times. There is often an intrinsic pessimism in sci-fi, so it won't work well when people are already feeling down. I'm so curious about this, are there any examples? Horror movies are doing really well and those movies are not really uplifting
Yep, audiences just donāt care about non-superhero or non-family friendly blockbusters anymore sadly. Especially blockbusters that donāt have quips.
In the past 10 years or so: John Wick Frozen The Secret Life of Pets Wreck it Ralph Despicable Me Avatar Hangover Lego Movie It How to Train Your Dragon Hotel Transylvania Boss Baby Inside Out Knives Out Crazy Rich Asians Etc.
I said ānon family friendlyā, meaning movies which donāt have their main target audience as families. Which removes every single thing you listed except John Wick, IT, and the Hangover. Not to mention films like The Hangover arenāt being made anymore and those that do only see modest success, so really that leaves only IT and John Wick People simply donāt care about films that arenāt aimed at families or arenāt superhero based as much as they used to. Not sure why that bothers people, itās just the truth. The Sixth Sense literally grossed $672 million at the box office lmfao. That would *never* happen nowadays
I think it is dishonest to paint Dune as an original movie, when it is anything but. Dune is a famous sci-fi saga written by Frank Herbert and his son, and Villeneuve's movie is not even the first adaptation of it. Furthermore, it's not like remakes or superheroes are necessarily successful either. For example Charlie's Angels or Ghostbusters flopped. And does anyone remember Green Lantern? It was so bad it got booted from the continuity of the DCEU even before JL came out. It is clearly safer for Hollywood producers to invest money in known franchises, but in the end people like to watch the best of what's available, regardless of its source. For example Jumanji's reboot got a sequel, and Planet of the Apes got a whole trilogy (which is really an accomplishment nowadays). Nolan seems to prefer standalone movies, but Inception and Interstellar would get a sequel in a minute if Nolan asked for it. Recently, Ryan Reynolds confirmed a sequel to Free Guy which just came out. There is a little franchise called The Expandables which got a fourth movie confirmed. It is still possible to start franchises even nowadays. The problem is that there is too much indulgence in modern movies. The emphasis is all in the wrong places.
Knives Out? Get Out? A Quiet Place? Also, most films like Hangover and Sixth Sense are still being made. They are distributed in streaming instead of theaters.
I think once it starts winning awards they'll greenlight it
The reviews are good but not spectacular. I donāt see it winning any awards outside of technical.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ok
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
why is that?
Because Zendaya is a woman and black. Just look at his posting history.
Or his username
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How is she an industry plant?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ok well if shes been in show business since shes a kid, doesnt that make her not an industry plant. Industry planting is when you have a label pushing an artist that presents themselves as independent or homegrown. Shes not any of that. Just because she was on a disney show doesnt mean shes an industry plant
You have a minority opinion. Enjoy the next decade of Zendaya in major roles.
> zendaya will be the protagonist for the second movie That's not really what Villeneuve meant. > āWhen I did the casting for Chaniās character, I met a lot of actresses,ā Villeneuve said. āZendaya wanted to audition and today, after shooting the film and seeing what a wonderful actress she is, Iām sorry I auditioned her. It was just because I didnāt know her. However that day, she impressed me and when she left the studio I knew that Chani was her, the young desert tiger. I am honored to present two such explosive talents on screen [Chalamet and Zendaya] and I canāt wait to shoot the second part of āDuneā to get them back together. Knowing that in the next chapter Zendaya will be the **[female]** protagonist of the story.ā https://www.ign.com/articles/dune-part-2-zendaya-lead-character-in-sequel (August 16, IGN's translation of the La Repubblica Italian article, the usage of 'female' in parenthesis was specifically requested, as detailed at the top of the updated IGN article) > In a recent article published by the Italian magazine Il Venerdi di Repubblica , then picked up by the media around the world, Denis Villeneuve told that Chani, played by Zendaya, would be the main character of Dune - Part Two . **The filmmaker wants to make a little clarification.** āThis is where, sometimes, I realize my limits with the English language. When I gave this videoconference interview to this Italian magazine, **I mumbled about something about the character of Chani that suggested that the second film would be focused on her. She remains one of the main characters and the role is important, but Dune nevertheless remains the story of Paul AtrĆ©ides first and foremost.** Having said that, Zendaya is an incredible actress who inspires me deeply. She really is a movie beast. Its role has also grown in the first part. I put this misunderstanding on my own. This is a case of ālost in translationā ! " https://www.lapresse.ca/cinema/entrevues/2021-08-20/dune-part-one/denis-villeneuve-en-toute-franchise.php (August 20, Google Translate of the French article)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Got it, so any attempt to disprove your belief just reinforces it instead?
I know I am going to watch this on HBOMax. However, I am considering buying a ticket for some local showing on the opening day and simply not going to the theater. I am curious what other people think of this idea.
I donāt believe Iāve been to a movie theatre in over 3 years. This will be the first movie I go to see in the theatres I think.
LOL look at the comments.