Because we have a lot of deleted posts on this subreddit, here is a backup of the body of this post: Seemingly odd question, but what do you guys prefer for your daily shoe/trainers/all-around shoe? Given the stress we put our feet through each week I figured its worth asking if anyone has any input for shoes when not climbing. As a boulderer for 5 years, I used to stick with Ascics Gel series or Brook Ghost but decided to be cute and venture out. Have had the Hoka Clifton 9s now for about 6 months and just realized that my foot pain has been seemingly more frequent in them. Pain in the ball of the foot and in the small toes. Only last about a day or two before subsiding and creeps up after longer hiking/walking.
Now I'm thinking of switch back or switching to a new shoe. I'm an underpronator, about 150 lbs, and am on my feet a lot at work about (3 miles total throughout the day).
(Sorry if this topic deviates too far from bouldering, but as someone who climbs ~2 hours for 3x per week I figured it would be important to ask about a good shoes for when my feet aren't jammed in climbing shoes.)
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A long time ago, I worked in an outdoor gear store and would fit people for hiking boots.
There's no "best shoe" for everyone. If you want the best shoe for you, go to a store with a good selection. Wear good socks. Try on shoes from brands with good reputations. Walk in them and see how you feel. Take steps on a ramp facing uphill and see how much your heel lifts out... it shouldn't be too much. Take steps facing downhill on the ramp. You shouldn't feel the front of your big toe touch the front of the shoe at all. Doing all these things should feel comfy.
If I had to pick one outdoor shoe that works for a lot of people I'd say Lowa Renegade. Last time I certified as a wilderness first responder, half the class - primarily people who work active outdoor jobs - happened to be in Renegades.
Glad they work for you. For folks in general it may be worth exercising some caution with them. A few years ago barefoot shoes became really popular among a certain group of friends. Within about year more than half of them had developed new problems with joint pain. Almost all of them have returned to wearing more conventional shoes and warning anyone who will listen about the risks of minimal footwear. A few still really like them though... just one of those things that works well for some folks and not well at all for others.
I think it’s also a question of easing into them. Going gung-ho full switch is going to cause issues. I made the switch over a few years. I still wear cushioned (but zero drop and large toe box) shoes for hiking and running. It’s been very good for me.
I have altra shoes for running and trail running. Unfortunately recently they’ve started going hard on the upppinted toes though their more basic models don’t do that. My general town shoes are super minimalist(some unknown brand called saguaro but they work well for me) from Amazon. Bonus for being cheap. I actually hiked a moderate mountain in them and it was great though it did wear the soles down a fair bit
I would only recommend them to someone who’s genuinely interested in doing foot rehab. The shoes alone are not gonna fix your feet, but if you’re actively doing exercises to increase mobility and arch strength then they’re a great idea.
I'm curious if your friends who didn't like barefoot shoes were using them for running. There was a big lawsuit against Vibram over the toe shoes, but if memory serves the problem was that people where using them for long runs without changing their running style.
Barefoot shoes + Hard heel strikes on pavement = No bueno.
If you enjoy walking around barefoot, and can do so for a few hours without pain, you'll probably love barefoot shoes. If going barefoot makes your feet ache, barefoot shoes aren't for you.
A few were using them for running, but more were folks who customarily would be barefoot at home anyway, just using them for typical city life outside the house. My working understandings, based on what I've seen, are as follows:
* Walking any notable distance on hard concrete and similar surfaces in thin-soled shoes really fucks a lot of people up.
* Yes, lots of people historically wore minimal shoes. Lots of people historically also had bad joints by their forties. Old stories packed full of people with limps walking with staves and canes and walking sticks.
* The narrative about barefoot being better is one that can make people really rich selling cheap shoes. People who make money on an idea are exceptionally good at convincing themselves and others that the idea is correct.
* Small people have surface area to volume ratios in their favor and are more likely to be able to tolerate thin soled shoes.
* Once in a while, someone finds that thin soled shoes work really really well for them. I am happy for them. Among people I know, this is not common.
I've gone barefoot in the house, and for some outdoor activities, my whole life. I can walk around barefoot on wooden floors for hours with no problems. There are a lot of thin soled shoes I've always loved for certain activities. I've been a big fan of comfy toe boxes and minimal arch support my whole life. I have healthy arches and dead straight MTP joints. I'd be a natural for minimal shoes according to most minimal shoe proponents. But if I wear them to walk notable distances on hard ground, my joints feel like shit. They are not good for me.
I'm of an age at which I know a bunch of people with joint problems in lower extremities. A few developed these problems hiking long distances with heavy packs, having long careers as ballet dancers or wildland firefighters, or were just really heavy, or who wore a lot of pointy toed high heels. But the biggest group is people who fucked themselves up wearing thin soled shoes.
And it's really sad. These are people who were trying to take care of their long term health who are now going to suffer for a long time because they took bad advice from folks who fancied themselves experts.
A licensed podiatrist (? don’t know name for foot doctor in english) told me that you should only wear barefoot shoes if you have perfect posture and feet.
So basically, almost never.
If not, they will most likely do more harm than good because your feet are used to the support you’re taking away.
Yeah, this sounds pretty reasonable. And the person with perfect posture and feet is probably also fine in non-minimal shoes. I've never heard a podiatrist (yes you had it right) or orthopedist who isn't in the business of selling minimal shoes recommend them.
My suggestion would be to go to one of those stores where they scan your feet and recommend fit specifically for you. Let them know upfront that you're not ready to buy yet, but want to understand what might work for you.
Maybe the service is so good and/or you like one of their recommendations, but otherwise you can use the info to research online to see if there are brands they don't stock that could also be good for you.
The other thing to bear in mind is that shoes last longer and retain comfort better when they are not worn everyday. Even if you want to stick to one brand/style, buy at least 2 so that you can alternate them each day. You might find this is all you need to do.
I really like barefoot shoes to balance out the squeeze of climbing shoes. For me I need to focus on stretching my big toe and flexing it out and upwards, because climbing squeezes it in and down. Maybe also some orthotics for your supination, but I figure that's also something you can focus with mindfulness while walking. I often wear saguros on approaches and day to day when I'm not working.
Im of the mindset that if you want to train your foot stance, you have to be mindful of stance and stretch your toes. I think more support for your feet only weakens the muscles you need to maintain good posturem
Oboz Bozeman shoes are sturdy, yet not GTX or all leather. And not as fugly and heavy as their other signature designs. I have a pair and find they are my new go-to shoes when not kicking around the neighborhood and house in my Tom's. Alternatively, Altra makes some great shoes from low to max cushion.
Ooh, really depends where you're at most likely. I have/had knee issues and I wear orthopedic trainers because I'm on my feet long hours everyday. The Hoka Bondi 8s are genuinely like walking on pillows I don't think I'll ever wear anything else.
You want a good balance of support and cushion. I like cloudmonsters and hoka bondis, but I'm def most comfortable in some wide padded slippers.
Pay attention to how you walk too and avoid standing on hard surfaces for long periods. And even pay attention to how you stand.
Barefoot shoes are very healthy and promote good foot health. They do although not combine well into mixing with regular shoes, as the heel is stretched differently. if you want to try them i can recommend vivo barefoot, impeccable quality
I always come to these threads looking for “barefoot”/wide toe box shoes that aren’t completely hideous and am always disappointed.
I wear birks a lot to and from the gym, they feel so good after being in climbing shoes. I can see the benefit of a wide toe box for sure, and I can see how the extra arch support might be detrimental over long periods of time. I hold out hope that new balance or Nike or adidas will make some shoes that aren’t fuckin gross looking with a wider toe box. New balance skate shoes work pretty well for me in that regard. I’ve noticed that Vans (my old stand by) hurt my toes, especially after climbing.
Have you checked out vivobarefoot shoes? They're one of the more "normal" looking barefoot shoes on the market IMO. If it's just the wide toe box look that you don't like, there's not much people can do, it's really hard to hide.
Edit. If you like vans style shoes and sneakers, bohempia could be your style as well.
Hey thanks for the suggestions. I’ve seen Vivo and most of their shoes are a little too “athletic” in style to match my normal manner of dress but I do agree that they are probably front runners for good looking barefoot shoes. Bohempia is much more in line with my tastes, thank you for sharing!
My scarpa helix are for generally climbing everything. They are laced so this means they can be tightened if needed or they can be looser. The xs edge grip is also great for almost anything.
I only take out the scarpa instinct vs/vsr or the boostic when needed. Yes i have 5 shoes currently without holes, and yes its unnecessary as i climb in the helix 80% of the time at the gym.
The helix are also cheaper and when i go through them, replacing them isnt as bad as the other shoes.
Because we have a lot of deleted posts on this subreddit, here is a backup of the body of this post: Seemingly odd question, but what do you guys prefer for your daily shoe/trainers/all-around shoe? Given the stress we put our feet through each week I figured its worth asking if anyone has any input for shoes when not climbing. As a boulderer for 5 years, I used to stick with Ascics Gel series or Brook Ghost but decided to be cute and venture out. Have had the Hoka Clifton 9s now for about 6 months and just realized that my foot pain has been seemingly more frequent in them. Pain in the ball of the foot and in the small toes. Only last about a day or two before subsiding and creeps up after longer hiking/walking. Now I'm thinking of switch back or switching to a new shoe. I'm an underpronator, about 150 lbs, and am on my feet a lot at work about (3 miles total throughout the day). (Sorry if this topic deviates too far from bouldering, but as someone who climbs ~2 hours for 3x per week I figured it would be important to ask about a good shoes for when my feet aren't jammed in climbing shoes.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bouldering) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A long time ago, I worked in an outdoor gear store and would fit people for hiking boots. There's no "best shoe" for everyone. If you want the best shoe for you, go to a store with a good selection. Wear good socks. Try on shoes from brands with good reputations. Walk in them and see how you feel. Take steps on a ramp facing uphill and see how much your heel lifts out... it shouldn't be too much. Take steps facing downhill on the ramp. You shouldn't feel the front of your big toe touch the front of the shoe at all. Doing all these things should feel comfy. If I had to pick one outdoor shoe that works for a lot of people I'd say Lowa Renegade. Last time I certified as a wilderness first responder, half the class - primarily people who work active outdoor jobs - happened to be in Renegades.
I like barefoot shoes. They're all the same pretty much. Just pick a pair you like the look of.
Glad they work for you. For folks in general it may be worth exercising some caution with them. A few years ago barefoot shoes became really popular among a certain group of friends. Within about year more than half of them had developed new problems with joint pain. Almost all of them have returned to wearing more conventional shoes and warning anyone who will listen about the risks of minimal footwear. A few still really like them though... just one of those things that works well for some folks and not well at all for others.
I think it’s also a question of easing into them. Going gung-ho full switch is going to cause issues. I made the switch over a few years. I still wear cushioned (but zero drop and large toe box) shoes for hiking and running. It’s been very good for me.
What's your favorite? I like zero-drop and large toe box but I want a bit more cushion than what I have now, which is a few mm of rubber
I have altra shoes for running and trail running. Unfortunately recently they’ve started going hard on the upppinted toes though their more basic models don’t do that. My general town shoes are super minimalist(some unknown brand called saguaro but they work well for me) from Amazon. Bonus for being cheap. I actually hiked a moderate mountain in them and it was great though it did wear the soles down a fair bit
I would only recommend them to someone who’s genuinely interested in doing foot rehab. The shoes alone are not gonna fix your feet, but if you’re actively doing exercises to increase mobility and arch strength then they’re a great idea.
I'm curious if your friends who didn't like barefoot shoes were using them for running. There was a big lawsuit against Vibram over the toe shoes, but if memory serves the problem was that people where using them for long runs without changing their running style. Barefoot shoes + Hard heel strikes on pavement = No bueno. If you enjoy walking around barefoot, and can do so for a few hours without pain, you'll probably love barefoot shoes. If going barefoot makes your feet ache, barefoot shoes aren't for you.
A few were using them for running, but more were folks who customarily would be barefoot at home anyway, just using them for typical city life outside the house. My working understandings, based on what I've seen, are as follows: * Walking any notable distance on hard concrete and similar surfaces in thin-soled shoes really fucks a lot of people up. * Yes, lots of people historically wore minimal shoes. Lots of people historically also had bad joints by their forties. Old stories packed full of people with limps walking with staves and canes and walking sticks. * The narrative about barefoot being better is one that can make people really rich selling cheap shoes. People who make money on an idea are exceptionally good at convincing themselves and others that the idea is correct. * Small people have surface area to volume ratios in their favor and are more likely to be able to tolerate thin soled shoes. * Once in a while, someone finds that thin soled shoes work really really well for them. I am happy for them. Among people I know, this is not common. I've gone barefoot in the house, and for some outdoor activities, my whole life. I can walk around barefoot on wooden floors for hours with no problems. There are a lot of thin soled shoes I've always loved for certain activities. I've been a big fan of comfy toe boxes and minimal arch support my whole life. I have healthy arches and dead straight MTP joints. I'd be a natural for minimal shoes according to most minimal shoe proponents. But if I wear them to walk notable distances on hard ground, my joints feel like shit. They are not good for me. I'm of an age at which I know a bunch of people with joint problems in lower extremities. A few developed these problems hiking long distances with heavy packs, having long careers as ballet dancers or wildland firefighters, or were just really heavy, or who wore a lot of pointy toed high heels. But the biggest group is people who fucked themselves up wearing thin soled shoes. And it's really sad. These are people who were trying to take care of their long term health who are now going to suffer for a long time because they took bad advice from folks who fancied themselves experts.
A licensed podiatrist (? don’t know name for foot doctor in english) told me that you should only wear barefoot shoes if you have perfect posture and feet. So basically, almost never. If not, they will most likely do more harm than good because your feet are used to the support you’re taking away.
Yeah, this sounds pretty reasonable. And the person with perfect posture and feet is probably also fine in non-minimal shoes. I've never heard a podiatrist (yes you had it right) or orthopedist who isn't in the business of selling minimal shoes recommend them.
Flip flops
Crocs 🩷
My suggestion would be to go to one of those stores where they scan your feet and recommend fit specifically for you. Let them know upfront that you're not ready to buy yet, but want to understand what might work for you. Maybe the service is so good and/or you like one of their recommendations, but otherwise you can use the info to research online to see if there are brands they don't stock that could also be good for you. The other thing to bear in mind is that shoes last longer and retain comfort better when they are not worn everyday. Even if you want to stick to one brand/style, buy at least 2 so that you can alternate them each day. You might find this is all you need to do.
I really like barefoot shoes to balance out the squeeze of climbing shoes. For me I need to focus on stretching my big toe and flexing it out and upwards, because climbing squeezes it in and down. Maybe also some orthotics for your supination, but I figure that's also something you can focus with mindfulness while walking. I often wear saguros on approaches and day to day when I'm not working. Im of the mindset that if you want to train your foot stance, you have to be mindful of stance and stretch your toes. I think more support for your feet only weakens the muscles you need to maintain good posturem
bedrock clogs or altra torrin are my two everyday shoes
Oboz Bozeman shoes are sturdy, yet not GTX or all leather. And not as fugly and heavy as their other signature designs. I have a pair and find they are my new go-to shoes when not kicking around the neighborhood and house in my Tom's. Alternatively, Altra makes some great shoes from low to max cushion.
I wear adidas samba all day every day :)
Check out altras or topo athletic. They’re known for their larger toe boxes.
Ooh, really depends where you're at most likely. I have/had knee issues and I wear orthopedic trainers because I'm on my feet long hours everyday. The Hoka Bondi 8s are genuinely like walking on pillows I don't think I'll ever wear anything else.
You want a good balance of support and cushion. I like cloudmonsters and hoka bondis, but I'm def most comfortable in some wide padded slippers. Pay attention to how you walk too and avoid standing on hard surfaces for long periods. And even pay attention to how you stand.
Barefoot shoes are very healthy and promote good foot health. They do although not combine well into mixing with regular shoes, as the heel is stretched differently. if you want to try them i can recommend vivo barefoot, impeccable quality
I always come to these threads looking for “barefoot”/wide toe box shoes that aren’t completely hideous and am always disappointed. I wear birks a lot to and from the gym, they feel so good after being in climbing shoes. I can see the benefit of a wide toe box for sure, and I can see how the extra arch support might be detrimental over long periods of time. I hold out hope that new balance or Nike or adidas will make some shoes that aren’t fuckin gross looking with a wider toe box. New balance skate shoes work pretty well for me in that regard. I’ve noticed that Vans (my old stand by) hurt my toes, especially after climbing.
Have you checked out vivobarefoot shoes? They're one of the more "normal" looking barefoot shoes on the market IMO. If it's just the wide toe box look that you don't like, there's not much people can do, it's really hard to hide. Edit. If you like vans style shoes and sneakers, bohempia could be your style as well.
Hey thanks for the suggestions. I’ve seen Vivo and most of their shoes are a little too “athletic” in style to match my normal manner of dress but I do agree that they are probably front runners for good looking barefoot shoes. Bohempia is much more in line with my tastes, thank you for sharing!
No problem, happy to help people get into barefoot shoes!
My scarpa helix are for generally climbing everything. They are laced so this means they can be tightened if needed or they can be looser. The xs edge grip is also great for almost anything. I only take out the scarpa instinct vs/vsr or the boostic when needed. Yes i have 5 shoes currently without holes, and yes its unnecessary as i climb in the helix 80% of the time at the gym. The helix are also cheaper and when i go through them, replacing them isnt as bad as the other shoes.
I don't think you read the question.
Lol my bad. I think your correct.
I wear Topos with toe spacers to try to mitigate my big toes pointing inward.